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Welcome back to Mindful Poly. This episode is about insecurity. It's part of our Big

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Feels series. I'm Fox. And I'm Nova. And we wanted to cover this one early because

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this is a big one. Yeah, we think we have a pet theory we want to share. Yeah. And also

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we'll probably come back to it in future episodes. Oh my gosh. Yes. But so the theory goes that

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underneath a lot of struggles and problems that people face in relationships. Almost all.

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Almost every single thing leads back to some underlying insecurity. Yeah, I think it's true.

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And people will make decisions for how they live their lives, how they structure their

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relationships all around these insecurities. Like they let it steer the ship. Yes. What is going on?

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How did we get here? And there's and I and I think it helps to clarify. I think there are two types

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of insecurity. You know, it's kind of an umbrella term. And I think it can be we can be talking

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about personal insecurity or relationship insecurity. Are you feeling not secure in the

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relationship itself? Are you feeling not secure as a person? Right. Personally. Yes. About yourself.

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Yes. And and I think we've been talking about whether you've been whether we've all been

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trained by society to be this way. You know, I think sometimes it's like, oh, you're just so

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insecure and people can take it really personally and be like, they'll turn it inwardly. Yeah. Mm hmm.

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Versus like, no, like society has a lot of weird ways of like reinforcing insecurity or kind of

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like validating insecurity. Right. Oh, man. It comes up so often. Yeah. So I think

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the biggest moment I had of like an aha of like, oh, my gosh, it's all about insecurity. Yeah.

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I was realizing that I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't want

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to actively be in a relationship with me. So so a lot of times insecurity is like someone might leave

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a partner might leave me because either a I personally am not worthy of being in a relationship

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with or be that they don't find this relationship worthy of continuing. And if either of those are

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true, I wouldn't want to stay in that relationship. I don't want to date that person. No, I don't. I

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don't think it's good for us to keep doing that. So you're saying that was an aha moment for you

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because prior to thinking that having that realization, that fear would guide your choices

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then. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There'd be so many moments of like, well, I don't want to lose this

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partner. I don't want to. This relationship is so important to me. I've just it does sound kind of

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simple, but I think it is actually a powerful way to think about things because we think about all

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the different ways that we tend to tie a partner to us, whether we're, you know, we're trying to make

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boundaries or rules around like, I'm the only one you do this with, you know, and a lot of times in

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monogamous contexts, it's like, I'm the only one you have a romantic connection with or a sexual

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connection with. I'm the only one you own a home with. I'm the only one you make children with.

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And then you use these onlys. Yeah. Bolster our own sense of self worth. And then but I also think

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it kind of serves to make us feel like that can't end then they can't. Right, because we've tied up

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our identity into it. I love it. It to me, it was also aha moment for me when you shared it with me

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was I often found myself worrying about relationships ending beyond my things that were beyond my

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control. And what that moment when you shared it with me made me think of, yeah, was became a very

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central, very important one for me was respecting the other person's journey. Yeah. And that had

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such an impact on me at that moment because I realized that that person's decision to not be in

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a relationship with me is their right. It's like they're, it's something that I should fight to

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protect their right to end it with me at any time for any reason. If they feel like they're going to

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be happier doing something else with someone else or somewhere else. Or even not with someone else.

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Not with someone else, just on their own. Yeah. Or yeah, it any anything other than being in the

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relationship with me, improve their life and make them happier. I would be the first person to tell

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them to do it. Yeah. Like I want that to be encouraged. I want it to be taught as like

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important, you know? Like we don't have like 10 commandments in Pali, but like 10, like if I had

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any, that would be one of mine. It's not, how do you never feel insecure? It should be, what I don't

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say should, but it could be what do I do with these insecure feelings? Or even what it, what might it

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be like to shift my perspective on a particular situation? So an example would be, let's say I

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go on a date with someone I'm really excited about. I'm really into them and we're sitting across from

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each other and I can just tell that they are not feeling it. They're just not into me. There's two

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ways I could feel about that. One is that I could immediately go in with the negative self-talk and

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say, you know, like I just, I'm not pretty enough. I'm not interesting enough. I'm not fun to date.

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I'm not fun to be around, you know, and spiral off that way. Or I can say, hmm, it seems like

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we're not compatible. We're just not, we're just not vibing. And, and it's a completely different

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way of experiencing that same interaction. Yeah. But it has such a big impact.

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It does. I like that reframe. It's not about

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succeeding or failing. Like you haven't failed to be your best you because that one person didn't

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like you. Yeah. I, you know, it's funny. Um, I, one thing that I think is very strange about

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insecurity, it feels so much of insecurity is about not feeling great about yourself, but it can

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actually cause you to have a very self-centered way of thinking about the world, like making things

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about you that aren't about you. Yeah. Um, I think a really good example of this would be,

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so we can do a personal one from my own life that's not really poly-related and a, and a

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personal one that is relationship. So, um, I was in a relationship with Tom for a long time

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and he did not have a good relationship with his body and his health. And I didn't either,

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you know, we'd kind of gotten into that place together and I wanted to go get active again and

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take better care of myself. And every time I would go to the gym and try to work out, it would make,

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he would feel bad about himself. I'd come home to him feeling bad about himself. So I was trying to

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do something good for me and he was making that thing that I was doing about him. And man, that

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was, that was just, it was so rough. Like it really, it probably harmed your motivation. Oh heck. Yeah.

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I had to consider that every time I went to the gym, what, what I was going to come home to and

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how, how the dynamic would feel between us, because the thing I'd been doing for me, he made about

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him. And so it's easy to see in that case, like, oh, he shouldn't have done that. But then when we

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move it over to the dating world. So an example would be, um, I was in a relationship with Tom

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would be, um, you know, my partner Elliot was dating Teagan. Um, this was the first time they

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were dating and, um, I was still a baby Polly at the time and just learning about how to handle

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all of that. Little Nova. And, um, when he would go on dates, I would, I would definitely internalize

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that not only personally, but in our relationship, I would be like, I would be thinking about what

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other people might think if they knew he, that, uh, that my partner was on a date with someone else,

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what they would think of me, like, like that they would think less of me or that they would judge me

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or that they would, um, I don't know. And I would, I would have, I would have trouble

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reconnecting with Elliot sometimes because I had spent so much time thinking about these negative

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things. I was doing the same kinds of things as far as like making it. Wow. So feeling your feels

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and just having the insecurities actually distanced you away from Elliot. Yeah. We had to kind of

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reconnect every time when he came back. Wow. Did you feel like that was by choice? No. Oh,

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I mean, I didn't want to be that. It just, that blows me away. That's so, that's, that's powerful.

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Like it's giving the power to your insecurity to connect you or disconnect you from somebody. Oh,

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yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, I would be so angry once I realized that I allowed that to happen to myself.

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Cause he ended up being in a similar situation to what I was just describing. Like when he was

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going on dates, he was like aware of this fact that like when he would come home to me, I would be

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in like this head space that we had to kind of like, repair. Yeah. We're just like, I had to do

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with Tom coming back from like working out as like, I feel like I had to bridge that with him. Wow.

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Yeah. It was not about me. And I made, I tried to make a relationship between two other people

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that were, that were falling in love and having this wonderful, incredible time together, trying

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to make it about me. I don't think you tried to do that. Well, okay. But in my own head,

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I was making it about me that they were doing this thing and it had anything to do with me.

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You're doing like Olympic level owning your insecurity.

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Yeah. I've had a good 10 years to work on this. So sure. Yeah. You're coming at it with some

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experience, but I mean, I think a lot of people very commonly find it hard to own their insecurities.

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Yeah. It's hard to admit something like that. True. Wow. Okay. So the, we just described the

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unhelpful versions. What would be the helpful side of that? Like the more healthy way to,

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like when you have those pop-up emotions, like a way to react to them that isn't going to make it

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about you and isn't externalizing the cause and getting yourself involved in someone else's

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relationship, like what would have been a better way? I mean, I think that's, that's not an easy

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thing to answer because I think part of, part of what insecurity is all about is externalizing

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your self-worth or your relationship's worth. It's instead of being measured against you or against

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the two of you that are in the relationship, suddenly you're measuring it by these outside

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factors. And then that makes everything pretty complicated. Yeah. So that path to security is

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about internalizing your worth. Yeah. And your relationship's worth. When it comes to your,

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your insecurity with yourself, you have a partner who you don't, you don't mean for it to be this

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way, but they are basically an important source of self-worth for you. Yeah. It becomes really

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difficult to imagine that relationship ending. You know, we, when we go back to that enthusiastic

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consent and that desire to only be in relationships that are people with people who really want to be

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in it with you, if your self-worth is tied up in this other person, then you're not going to be

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in this other person. If you need their validation to feel good about you, you can't, it's, you can't

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really get to that head space. You can't be comfortable with the idea that they might leave.

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Or that you might want to leave. Yeah. Like if it's a bad situation. Yeah. You're going to put up with

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more, you're going to put yourself through things you don't really need to put yourself through.

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Oh, wow. This is a heavy topic. It really is. Yeah. But it's worth having.

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There's a cat on the premise. I know. We have a co-host in the studio today. Yeah. Her name is

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Jara. She's- We didn't come up with a special name for her. Oh. A nickname. Oh, I'm so sorry,

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Jara. I used your real name. I know. You just outed her. Oh no. I outed your cat.

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As if she could ever be more angry than she already is on a daily basis. She is fury personified.

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One way that we've talked about trying to cope with insecurity when it pops up is that there are

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what you might consider reasonable and unreasonable things that you could ask of your partner to help

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when either you're feeling insecure about yourself or about your relationship. I think every couple

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and every person is going to have a different idea of what they might deem reasonable or unreasonable.

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Our boundaries are all our own. We're unique. We draw that line in different places. Right.

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But knowing yours really well is a good tool for your insecurities. Absolutely. Yeah. If I were to

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try to figure out what I think would be reasonable. If I had a partner who was feeling insecure,

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I would find it unreasonable for them to make any asks that involved other relationships.

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Please don't take any other partners to our favorite dinner spot. Please don't do this certain

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sexual position with any other partners. Please don't. Because that makes me feel insecure. Those

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would be the kinds of things I would find personally unreasonable or that I would be unwilling

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to offer. But if they instead said, hey, I'm feeling a little insecure about how much time

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you're offering this other partner and I'm just feeling like a little disconnected, then I would

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be like, oh yeah, I'd be happy to find some more. Let's plan some more dates. Let's find some time

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together. I can accommodate that. I'm willing to help with that insecurity. Right. And that

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willingness, unwillingness is going to be different for everybody. Yeah. But those are, I guess what

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I'm saying is just like, it isn't for you alone to work on your own security in a box all the time.

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There are things that you can ask for and request. Yeah. As long as you're comfortable with the fact

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that your partner may or may not be willing to offer them. So there's this hypothetical example.

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Yes. I think, um, that I came up with a way of exploring your insecurity because you don't as

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often. I had some good examples in my stories of insecurity and I, I don't feel like you, um,

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your insecurity isn't as triggered as often. You, you, you have an easier time finding security in

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yourself and finding security in relationships. Yeah. Cause I know I'm awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

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Clearly. Uh, anyway, I, yeah. So if the question is, Hey Fox, do you ever feel insecure?

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The answer is not often, but if I were to come up with some sort of scenario, in which case I would

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have to grapple with some insecurities, the one example I did come up with, which I think it would

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be pretty good is so Nova has a thing for the guitarist from jukebox, the ghost. Are we going

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to look up his name? No, they can figure it out and make them Google it. Great. And, uh,

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who is also a cartoonist, which also I am, and I am also, I play, I don't play guitar, but I play

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bass and drums. Uh, so this scenario, I might have a type or something. You should maybe have a type.

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Uh, this, this, uh, scenario I invented is you go to a jukebox, the ghost concert and get to meet the

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band and hit it off with a guitarist and he asks you out for a drink or something. It basically

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becomes like a solo situation for you and this way more handsome and talented version of me.

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Does it agree? This is, well, I mean, I did that for comedic effect because the lesson,

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I did want you to react to dare you compare. Yes. How dare I exactly the, one of the lessons here

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is it's shallow and, uh, oversimplifying to boil someone else down to just these categories of what

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they do. And then basically comparing me to him is like saying, well, we're both cartoonists and

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we're both musicians and he's like more handsome and talented. So my insecurity would be that you're

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going to trade up. Yeah. Right. Right. Like why would you need me anymore? If you have,

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if you found this better version of all the things I am, which like, like it's just,

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let's start talking about all the ways in which that's so many ways. Yeah. Right. Or even that,

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like, I mean, who is to say how many slots I have in my heart for musician cartoonists? Like I might

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have quite a few. We're like the highlander that can be only one. You can only date one of us at a time.

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No. You refuse. You wouldn't even start a relationship with someone who believed that.

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No, I mean, I, I might start a relationship with them, but I might try to see if I could, um,

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you're going to change them? No, not change them. Just introduce them to some new ideas.

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Oh, okay. That's a way nicer way to put it. I'm not going to force it, you know?

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Well, thanks. Thanks for talking to me about insecurity today, Fox.

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Nova. It was my pleasure. I think you're pretty cool. You're pretty cool too. Thanks. Did you

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learn something? You kind of learned where the edges of my actual insecurities are around Vyte.

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Yeah. If I date Jukebox a ghost guy, I should actually look up his name. I feel really bad

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about not knowing his name. I really like not ever mentioning it. Okay. That makes my insecurity

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feel better. Oh. We're only human. No, in reality, I would be so excited for you to date him because

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then I would be like, does he, can he like introduce me to a publisher? Like, uh, like,

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or can my band open for his band? Like, wow.