Welcome back to Mindful Poly. This episode is about insecurity. It's part of our Big
Feels series. I'm Fox. And I'm Nova. And we wanted to cover this one early because
this is a big one. Yeah, we think we have a pet theory we want to share. Yeah. And also
we'll probably come back to it in future episodes. Oh my gosh. Yes. But so the theory goes that
underneath a lot of struggles and problems that people face in relationships. Almost all.
Almost every single thing leads back to some underlying insecurity. Yeah, I think it's true.
And people will make decisions for how they live their lives, how they structure their
relationships all around these insecurities. Like they let it steer the ship. Yes. What is going on?
How did we get here? And there's and I and I think it helps to clarify. I think there are two types
of insecurity. You know, it's kind of an umbrella term. And I think it can be we can be talking
about personal insecurity or relationship insecurity. Are you feeling not secure in the
relationship itself? Are you feeling not secure as a person? Right. Personally. Yes. About yourself.
Yes. And and I think we've been talking about whether you've been whether we've all been
trained by society to be this way. You know, I think sometimes it's like, oh, you're just so
insecure and people can take it really personally and be like, they'll turn it inwardly. Yeah. Mm hmm.
Versus like, no, like society has a lot of weird ways of like reinforcing insecurity or kind of
like validating insecurity. Right. Oh, man. It comes up so often. Yeah. So I think
the biggest moment I had of like an aha of like, oh, my gosh, it's all about insecurity. Yeah.
I was realizing that I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't want
to actively be in a relationship with me. So so a lot of times insecurity is like someone might leave
a partner might leave me because either a I personally am not worthy of being in a relationship
with or be that they don't find this relationship worthy of continuing. And if either of those are
true, I wouldn't want to stay in that relationship. I don't want to date that person. No, I don't. I
don't think it's good for us to keep doing that. So you're saying that was an aha moment for you
because prior to thinking that having that realization, that fear would guide your choices
then. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There'd be so many moments of like, well, I don't want to lose this
partner. I don't want to. This relationship is so important to me. I've just it does sound kind of
simple, but I think it is actually a powerful way to think about things because we think about all
the different ways that we tend to tie a partner to us, whether we're, you know, we're trying to make
boundaries or rules around like, I'm the only one you do this with, you know, and a lot of times in
monogamous contexts, it's like, I'm the only one you have a romantic connection with or a sexual
connection with. I'm the only one you own a home with. I'm the only one you make children with.
And then you use these onlys. Yeah. Bolster our own sense of self worth. And then but I also think
it kind of serves to make us feel like that can't end then they can't. Right, because we've tied up
our identity into it. I love it. It to me, it was also aha moment for me when you shared it with me
was I often found myself worrying about relationships ending beyond my things that were beyond my
control. And what that moment when you shared it with me made me think of, yeah, was became a very
central, very important one for me was respecting the other person's journey. Yeah. And that had
such an impact on me at that moment because I realized that that person's decision to not be in
a relationship with me is their right. It's like they're, it's something that I should fight to
protect their right to end it with me at any time for any reason. If they feel like they're going to
be happier doing something else with someone else or somewhere else. Or even not with someone else.
Not with someone else, just on their own. Yeah. Or yeah, it any anything other than being in the
relationship with me, improve their life and make them happier. I would be the first person to tell
them to do it. Yeah. Like I want that to be encouraged. I want it to be taught as like
important, you know? Like we don't have like 10 commandments in Pali, but like 10, like if I had
any, that would be one of mine. It's not, how do you never feel insecure? It should be, what I don't
say should, but it could be what do I do with these insecure feelings? Or even what it, what might it
be like to shift my perspective on a particular situation? So an example would be, let's say I
go on a date with someone I'm really excited about. I'm really into them and we're sitting across from
each other and I can just tell that they are not feeling it. They're just not into me. There's two
ways I could feel about that. One is that I could immediately go in with the negative self-talk and
say, you know, like I just, I'm not pretty enough. I'm not interesting enough. I'm not fun to date.
I'm not fun to be around, you know, and spiral off that way. Or I can say, hmm, it seems like
we're not compatible. We're just not, we're just not vibing. And, and it's a completely different
way of experiencing that same interaction. Yeah. But it has such a big impact.
It does. I like that reframe. It's not about
succeeding or failing. Like you haven't failed to be your best you because that one person didn't
like you. Yeah. I, you know, it's funny. Um, I, one thing that I think is very strange about
insecurity, it feels so much of insecurity is about not feeling great about yourself, but it can
actually cause you to have a very self-centered way of thinking about the world, like making things
about you that aren't about you. Yeah. Um, I think a really good example of this would be,
so we can do a personal one from my own life that's not really poly-related and a, and a
personal one that is relationship. So, um, I was in a relationship with Tom for a long time
and he did not have a good relationship with his body and his health. And I didn't either,
you know, we'd kind of gotten into that place together and I wanted to go get active again and
take better care of myself. And every time I would go to the gym and try to work out, it would make,
he would feel bad about himself. I'd come home to him feeling bad about himself. So I was trying to
do something good for me and he was making that thing that I was doing about him. And man, that
was, that was just, it was so rough. Like it really, it probably harmed your motivation. Oh heck. Yeah.
I had to consider that every time I went to the gym, what, what I was going to come home to and
how, how the dynamic would feel between us, because the thing I'd been doing for me, he made about
him. And so it's easy to see in that case, like, oh, he shouldn't have done that. But then when we
move it over to the dating world. So an example would be, um, I was in a relationship with Tom
would be, um, you know, my partner Elliot was dating Teagan. Um, this was the first time they
were dating and, um, I was still a baby Polly at the time and just learning about how to handle
all of that. Little Nova. And, um, when he would go on dates, I would, I would definitely internalize
that not only personally, but in our relationship, I would be like, I would be thinking about what
other people might think if they knew he, that, uh, that my partner was on a date with someone else,
what they would think of me, like, like that they would think less of me or that they would judge me
or that they would, um, I don't know. And I would, I would have, I would have trouble
reconnecting with Elliot sometimes because I had spent so much time thinking about these negative
things. I was doing the same kinds of things as far as like making it. Wow. So feeling your feels
and just having the insecurities actually distanced you away from Elliot. Yeah. We had to kind of
reconnect every time when he came back. Wow. Did you feel like that was by choice? No. Oh,
I mean, I didn't want to be that. It just, that blows me away. That's so, that's, that's powerful.
Like it's giving the power to your insecurity to connect you or disconnect you from somebody. Oh,
yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, I would be so angry once I realized that I allowed that to happen to myself.
Cause he ended up being in a similar situation to what I was just describing. Like when he was
going on dates, he was like aware of this fact that like when he would come home to me, I would be
in like this head space that we had to kind of like, repair. Yeah. We're just like, I had to do
with Tom coming back from like working out as like, I feel like I had to bridge that with him. Wow.
Yeah. It was not about me. And I made, I tried to make a relationship between two other people
that were, that were falling in love and having this wonderful, incredible time together, trying
to make it about me. I don't think you tried to do that. Well, okay. But in my own head,
I was making it about me that they were doing this thing and it had anything to do with me.
You're doing like Olympic level owning your insecurity.
Yeah. I've had a good 10 years to work on this. So sure. Yeah. You're coming at it with some
experience, but I mean, I think a lot of people very commonly find it hard to own their insecurities.
Yeah. It's hard to admit something like that. True. Wow. Okay. So the, we just described the
unhelpful versions. What would be the helpful side of that? Like the more healthy way to,
like when you have those pop-up emotions, like a way to react to them that isn't going to make it
about you and isn't externalizing the cause and getting yourself involved in someone else's
relationship, like what would have been a better way? I mean, I think that's, that's not an easy
thing to answer because I think part of, part of what insecurity is all about is externalizing
your self-worth or your relationship's worth. It's instead of being measured against you or against
the two of you that are in the relationship, suddenly you're measuring it by these outside
factors. And then that makes everything pretty complicated. Yeah. So that path to security is
about internalizing your worth. Yeah. And your relationship's worth. When it comes to your,
your insecurity with yourself, you have a partner who you don't, you don't mean for it to be this
way, but they are basically an important source of self-worth for you. Yeah. It becomes really
difficult to imagine that relationship ending. You know, we, when we go back to that enthusiastic
consent and that desire to only be in relationships that are people with people who really want to be
in it with you, if your self-worth is tied up in this other person, then you're not going to be
in this other person. If you need their validation to feel good about you, you can't, it's, you can't
really get to that head space. You can't be comfortable with the idea that they might leave.
Or that you might want to leave. Yeah. Like if it's a bad situation. Yeah. You're going to put up with
more, you're going to put yourself through things you don't really need to put yourself through.
Oh, wow. This is a heavy topic. It really is. Yeah. But it's worth having.
There's a cat on the premise. I know. We have a co-host in the studio today. Yeah. Her name is
Jara. She's- We didn't come up with a special name for her. Oh. A nickname. Oh, I'm so sorry,
Jara. I used your real name. I know. You just outed her. Oh no. I outed your cat.
As if she could ever be more angry than she already is on a daily basis. She is fury personified.
One way that we've talked about trying to cope with insecurity when it pops up is that there are
what you might consider reasonable and unreasonable things that you could ask of your partner to help
when either you're feeling insecure about yourself or about your relationship. I think every couple
and every person is going to have a different idea of what they might deem reasonable or unreasonable.
Our boundaries are all our own. We're unique. We draw that line in different places. Right.
But knowing yours really well is a good tool for your insecurities. Absolutely. Yeah. If I were to
try to figure out what I think would be reasonable. If I had a partner who was feeling insecure,
I would find it unreasonable for them to make any asks that involved other relationships.
Please don't take any other partners to our favorite dinner spot. Please don't do this certain
sexual position with any other partners. Please don't. Because that makes me feel insecure. Those
would be the kinds of things I would find personally unreasonable or that I would be unwilling
to offer. But if they instead said, hey, I'm feeling a little insecure about how much time
you're offering this other partner and I'm just feeling like a little disconnected, then I would
be like, oh yeah, I'd be happy to find some more. Let's plan some more dates. Let's find some time
together. I can accommodate that. I'm willing to help with that insecurity. Right. And that
willingness, unwillingness is going to be different for everybody. Yeah. But those are, I guess what
I'm saying is just like, it isn't for you alone to work on your own security in a box all the time.
There are things that you can ask for and request. Yeah. As long as you're comfortable with the fact
that your partner may or may not be willing to offer them. So there's this hypothetical example.
Yes. I think, um, that I came up with a way of exploring your insecurity because you don't as
often. I had some good examples in my stories of insecurity and I, I don't feel like you, um,
your insecurity isn't as triggered as often. You, you, you have an easier time finding security in
yourself and finding security in relationships. Yeah. Cause I know I'm awesome. Yeah. Yeah.
Clearly. Uh, anyway, I, yeah. So if the question is, Hey Fox, do you ever feel insecure?
The answer is not often, but if I were to come up with some sort of scenario, in which case I would
have to grapple with some insecurities, the one example I did come up with, which I think it would
be pretty good is so Nova has a thing for the guitarist from jukebox, the ghost. Are we going
to look up his name? No, they can figure it out and make them Google it. Great. And, uh,
who is also a cartoonist, which also I am, and I am also, I play, I don't play guitar, but I play
bass and drums. Uh, so this scenario, I might have a type or something. You should maybe have a type.
Uh, this, this, uh, scenario I invented is you go to a jukebox, the ghost concert and get to meet the
band and hit it off with a guitarist and he asks you out for a drink or something. It basically
becomes like a solo situation for you and this way more handsome and talented version of me.
Does it agree? This is, well, I mean, I did that for comedic effect because the lesson,
I did want you to react to dare you compare. Yes. How dare I exactly the, one of the lessons here
is it's shallow and, uh, oversimplifying to boil someone else down to just these categories of what
they do. And then basically comparing me to him is like saying, well, we're both cartoonists and
we're both musicians and he's like more handsome and talented. So my insecurity would be that you're
going to trade up. Yeah. Right. Right. Like why would you need me anymore? If you have,
if you found this better version of all the things I am, which like, like it's just,
let's start talking about all the ways in which that's so many ways. Yeah. Right. Or even that,
like, I mean, who is to say how many slots I have in my heart for musician cartoonists? Like I might
have quite a few. We're like the highlander that can be only one. You can only date one of us at a time.
No. You refuse. You wouldn't even start a relationship with someone who believed that.
No, I mean, I, I might start a relationship with them, but I might try to see if I could, um,
you're going to change them? No, not change them. Just introduce them to some new ideas.
Oh, okay. That's a way nicer way to put it. I'm not going to force it, you know?
Well, thanks. Thanks for talking to me about insecurity today, Fox.
Nova. It was my pleasure. I think you're pretty cool. You're pretty cool too. Thanks. Did you
learn something? You kind of learned where the edges of my actual insecurities are around Vyte.
Yeah. If I date Jukebox a ghost guy, I should actually look up his name. I feel really bad
about not knowing his name. I really like not ever mentioning it. Okay. That makes my insecurity
feel better. Oh. We're only human. No, in reality, I would be so excited for you to date him because
then I would be like, does he, can he like introduce me to a publisher? Like, uh, like,
or can my band open for his band? Like, wow.