1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,000 Hello. 2 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:02,000 Hi, Fox. 3 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,000 Hey, Nova. 4 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,000 It's time for the crowdsource episode. 5 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:10,000 Yes, which was one of my favorites of last season. 6 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,000 Mine too. 7 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:12,000 I loved how it came together. 8 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:17,000 I would say the most challenging aspect of the crowdsource episode was coming up with 9 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,000 a question this year. 10 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:19,000 Oh my gosh, yes. 11 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:25,000 Like, our question last season was just so open-ended and so open to the audience. 12 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Yeah, we definitely wanted it to have room for nuance and have no right or wrong. 13 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,000 Yeah. 14 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,000 Hopefully, this year, I think we found that sweet spot again. 15 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,000 Yeah, yeah. 16 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:40,000 So the question we arrived at is what makes you feel secure in a relationship? 17 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,000 Some of the answers we got were audio, and some of them were written. 18 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,000 So for the written ones, we have recorded our own voices. 19 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,000 You'll hear us throughout this episode, but it's not a full-on video. 20 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,000 So we're going to be doing a full-on video of the answers. 21 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,000 You'll hear us throughout this episode, but it's not our actual responses. 22 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,000 We're just lending a voice to a written response. 23 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,000 Yep. 24 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:02,000 So let's get to it. 25 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,000 What did people tell us about feeling secure in their relationships? 26 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,000 Yeah, let's check it out. 27 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:11,000 So what makes me feel secure in a relationship? 28 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,000 I'm not really sure. 29 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,000 I live my life very intuitively. 30 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:22,000 I don't think a lot about my relationships. 31 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,000 My secure ones, anyway, the ones that I feel secure in, I don't think about them a lot, 32 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:32,000 which I think is one of the things that makes me feel secure about them is not questioning them. 33 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:39,000 When I get to a point of not questioning them, when I really enjoy being around a person, 34 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:47,000 when it never feels like a chore to be around a person, that leads to a good relationship. 35 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:52,000 My longest relationships are the ones that I feel the most secure in. 36 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:59,000 So having spent a lot of time with a person is definitely something that makes me feel secure. 37 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:12,000 And I think also feeling like that person is engaged with me in a very similar way that I'm engaged with them. 38 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:18,000 So sort of a mutual level of engagement with a person to where like, 39 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,000 I'm not way more into them than they're into me. 40 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,000 They're not way more into me than I am into them. 41 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:28,000 Like when it feels mutual, that helps with security. 42 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:35,000 I definitely have like at least one friend that we do get on each other's nerves after a while, 43 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:41,000 but the fact that we get on each other's nerves makes it okay somehow. 44 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:48,000 I don't get on their nerves and I'm fine, you know. 45 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:56,000 We get on each other's nerves and the fact that that's mutual just means we need to spend a little time apart from time to time. 46 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:06,000 And understanding that we need to spend a little bit of time apart is a good thing that makes me feel secure, that we like understand. 47 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:13,000 So communication also, like knowing these things about ourselves and all that, 48 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:18,000 that's definitely a thing that makes me feel more secure in a relationship. 49 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,000 First of all, I'm immediately in the mindset of attachment theory. 50 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,000 Secure versus anxious versus avoidant styles of attachment. 51 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:30,000 Super illuminating for me in my early romantic life. 52 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,000 In past relationships, I have felt a mix of each, naturally, 53 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:42,000 but what often tipped the balance from anxiety to more secure footing was to establish consistent communication channels. 54 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,000 If I messaged my guy on Instagram, but he didn't have notifications turned on, 55 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:51,000 I could have saved myself an evening spent spiraling if I had just texted. 56 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:56,000 I would say just like being super blunt and truthful. 57 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,000 Like I need someone to just be like, that's BS, Vic. 58 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:05,000 Like that is totally your BS, you just made that up. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. I did. 59 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,000 Like I just need, I need like realness. 60 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:16,000 I think that keeps, because then I know that that person's like really believing in who I am and who they are. 61 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,000 And we can like just have that trust. 62 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,000 I don't need you to like fluff anything for me. 63 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,000 Like tell me how it is. You're gonna break my heart? Just do it. 64 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,000 Like, yeah, I think that's, that's what makes me feel secure. 65 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:37,000 Security in a relationship for me is being honest with each other about expectations, boundaries and the like. 66 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:43,000 Knowing each other's boundaries is important to me because of the PTSD I've suffered from toxic relationships. 67 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:48,000 Having a partner that is aware and empathetic is something that makes me feel secure. 68 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:53,000 And when I feel secure, I feel more intimate with a partner emotionally and physically. 69 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:57,000 Relationships are really complicated things and they involve a lot of patience, love and acceptance. 70 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:02,000 For me, I know perfectly well that I need to feel secure, but that doesn't mean that'll be what my partner needs. 71 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:09,000 First and foremost, I pretty much begin to feel better with someone once I've learned what I have to do to bring them the most comfort and happiness. 72 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:16,000 If that fits into my comfort zone and I can see the effects of my efforts, then I can begin really worrying about my own needs. 73 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,000 It's not that I see myself as some great provider or selfless champion of love. 74 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:27,000 More that I know how much work these things can be and I want to be sure that I have what it takes to be in it for the long haul first. 75 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:34,000 That's the first element I need to feel safe, giving this person access to the private elements of myself that I mostly keep walled up from others. 76 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:40,000 Once I know I'm in a good place to make my partner happy, I start looking for the little things that make me feel good. 77 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,000 It's not always the same from person to person. 78 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:48,000 Everyone has their own style and what might feel really sweet coming from one person might feel very different from another. 79 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:54,000 The biggest and most important thing for me is that I don't feel like I need to be special or different for them. 80 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,000 Like I want the me that they met to be enough. 81 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,000 And as we age and change, I want them to love me for who I become. 82 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:08,000 One of the biggest challenges in my life has been the loss of long-held relationships because the person I was with changed and stopped being happy with me. 83 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:13,000 It was never a big fight or some awful event or series of events that broke things off. 84 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,000 It just seemed like a gradual and extremely heartbreaking loss of interest. 85 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,000 Selfishly, I want to always be interesting to the person I'm with. 86 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,000 I want to feel valued and appreciated. 87 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,000 Once that feeling is lost, that's when things start to feel very insecure. 88 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,000 I don't need to be a mind-blowing superstar in their eyes or anything. 89 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,000 I just want to always feel like I matter to them. 90 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:38,000 And like the time we spend together isn't a chore or line item on a schedule. 91 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,000 That's what I really want. 92 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,000 And that's what I try to provide as well. 93 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:49,000 For me, feeling secure in a relationship comes from being able to trust each other completely without worrying about getting in trouble. 94 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:55,000 When there are no secrets between us, I feel much closer and more connected to my partner. 95 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,000 And there is more intimacy in all aspects. 96 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:08,000 One thing that really helped us get to this point was deciding to be open to the idea of including someone else in our relationship, which got rid of any sneaky behavior. 97 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:13,000 Now my wife feels comfortable sharing all her worries and intimate desires with me. 98 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,000 And I feel good knowing I can tell her anything without upsetting her. 99 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:24,000 Being open with each other has actually shown us that we have more desires and dreams in common than we thought. 100 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:33,000 So this topic feels really timely to me because I've been reading PolySecure, a book about consensual non-monogamy and attachment theory 101 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:45,000 and how polyamorous individuals or people dating multiple people can get to a state of securely attached relationships with multiple people at the same time. 102 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:55,000 And if you'd asked me before I got to a certain point in the book, what makes me feel secure about my relationships, 103 00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:03,000 it would be about things like whether I feel fully seen and feel safe exposing all different parts of myself. 104 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:14,000 How has the relationship already evolved that's allowed us to build up trust that as it continues to evolve, we'll stay close and we'll work out the issues. 105 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:24,000 And do I know that the person is willing to do the work to to be a safe and caring human in relationship with me? 106 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,000 And all of those things are still true. 107 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:43,000 But what I learned from the book is that there's a difference between being in a secure relationship with somebody and being in a securely attached relationship that has dramatically changed how I've seen my relationships that I'm in today. 108 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:57,000 So to take a step back, I'm solo poly. I live alone and I don't even live in the same state as any of my long term partners that I've had from anywhere between five and 15 years. 109 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:05,000 So these are very secure relationships where they've obviously evolved a number of times over the over the years. 110 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,000 And I have deep love for them. They have deep love for me. 111 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:24,000 But what I've realized recently that as we've evolved, we haven't always evolved in a way that Jessica Fern and the woman that she quotes from Sue Johnson would consider securely attached. 112 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:34,000 So the difference here is that secure connections are, and I'm going to just quote her here, secure in the bond that we have with such people. 113 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:43,000 And this bond might be immensely meaningful, special, and important to us, but it's not necessarily a relationship that requires us to invest regular maintenance and attention. 114 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:54,000 On the other hand, securely attached relationships answer three questions affirmatively. Are you available? Are you responsive? Are you emotionally engaged? 115 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:06,000 And over time, even though I feel that my partners are committed to me and I'm committed to them, what that commitment looks like changes and we're not always available for each other on a daily basis. 116 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:15,000 So thankfully, I'm very grateful to have partners that are that anytime I'm respond, I'm going through a hard time. 117 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,000 Can you talk? They will make time for me. 118 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:28,000 And then I have partners who have a baby right now, and as much as they love me, they do not have the capacity to be always responsive and available for me. 119 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:33,000 And I don't always have the emotional availability for them either. 120 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:39,000 And yet I still know and believe deeply that will be a meaningful part of each other's lives in 10 years. 121 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:59,000 And I think that this is the beauty of polyamory, that we can be seen and loved by people in such very different ways that that emotional availability or how we show up in each other's lives doesn't have to look the same, but they can still feel secure. 122 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:15,000 Or they can help us feel secure in who we are. And that's what I found with my partnerships that I have anyway that I feel completely loved and our agreements or commitments to each other evolves as needed. 123 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:20,000 In response to your question about what makes me feel secure in a relationship, here's my comment. 124 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:25,000 For me, communication, honesty, and respect are essential to feeling secure. 125 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:35,000 If there's an issue, it should be openly discussed with my partner. When these elements are present, there's no need for secrecy and I feel confident discussing concerns or worries. 126 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,000 This leads me to a transparent and healthy relationship. 127 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:53,000 Both within the context of polyamory and in the wider scope of any kind of relationship, platonic or otherwise, the one thing that makes me feel the most secure in those interactions is when those involved are vocal about enjoying my company. 128 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:57,000 And coupled that with actions that reflect that. 129 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:07,000 Something as simple as saying, I look forward to seeing you, or reaching out occasionally with a, this thing reminded me of you, helps me ease my insecurities. 130 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:16,000 It lets me know without a shadow of a doubt that the other person not only doesn't mind me being part of their life, but actively seeks my presence. 131 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:23,000 It makes me feel like an active and genuinely desired choice, rather than a passive option that doesn't matter. 132 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:29,000 How I see someone treat others can make me admire and trust that person. 133 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:45,000 If they don't want or need anything from someone else, and they are still kind and try to see the other person's point of view, that makes me think they are a genuinely good person, who will still be kind to me even if they lose interest in me or become preoccupied with something else. 134 00:12:45,000 --> 00:13:02,000 If the person lets me into their interior world, not just telling me about what they did or what happened to them that week, but telling me how they felt about it and what motivated them, it makes me feel like I know the person, what drives them and what to expect from them in the future. 135 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:08,000 It makes me feel safer being myself and sharing my internal world with them. 136 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,000 And if I can do that and they don't run away screaming, that's a pretty good sign. 137 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:23,000 If the person really listens and tries to understand what I am thinking and feeling, asks for clarification when they don't, I feel heard and seen. 138 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:29,000 And even if they don't understand what I'm saying, I feel cared about because I see them trying. 139 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,000 Hey, it's us again. 140 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,000 Nova, what did you think? 141 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:42,000 Well, you know, I loved that there ended up being some threads that showed up in multiple answers that kind of surprised me and I liked that. 142 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,000 Yeah. 143 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:55,000 I also really liked the variety of answers, which I was hoping for and it was really cool to hear the different directions that it took different people as they explored their answers. 144 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:04,000 Yeah, every time we do this, that's what I'm hoping for. I really want to highlight just how it's so different for each person. 145 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,000 Yeah. 146 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:10,000 Like there's no one size fits all perfect formula answer for feeling secure. 147 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,000 Yeah, for sure. 148 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:21,000 So like I love doing these episodes because they're just like more than anything, I think they just show people that there's such diversity out there. 149 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,000 Yeah. 150 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:29,000 I love the podcast in the sense that I love that we get a chance to share some of the experiences we've had and some of the things we've learned. 151 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:37,000 But I also really, really cherish these kinds of episodes where we get a chance to invite others to share their voice and share some perspective that they have. 152 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:42,000 Like, I really do love having more voices than just ours. 153 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,000 Yeah, I think that's super important, actually. 154 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,000 And it's something I hope that we get to keep continuing to do. 155 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,000 Yeah, me too. 156 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,000 So that's the Crowdsource episode. 157 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,000 Yep. 158 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,000 Thank you so much for joining us again. 159 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,000 Yeah, this was awesome. 160 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,000 And thank you, Nova. 161 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,000 Really? 162 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:04,000 Yes, because like you said earlier, you love this podcast and I do too because I get to spend all this extra time with you. 163 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,000 Working on this project together. 164 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,000 It is pretty special. 165 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,000 So thank you. 166 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,000 Thank you too. 167 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,000 Bye. 168 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:36,000 Bye. 169 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:44,000 That was our intro music as Beatbox by Fox. 170 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,000 All Fox all the time. 171 00:15:46,000 --> 00:16:15,000 Radio 3.5.