Hello.
Hi.
Hey Nova.
Hey Fox.
Guess what?
What?
This is the non-binary interview episode.
Yeah.
This one is so exciting.
Who do we have with us in the studio today?
Vic is joining us to share more about their story of the intersection of non-binary and
polyamory.
So let's welcome Vick to the podcast.
Well, my name is Vick, or Vicki.
I am really fine with people knowing my name.
And my pronouns are they, them.
I had top surgery this year, four months ago.
And that was life changing.
Yeah.
It's been like amazing.
I probably started the process of deconstructing my gender, probably age 30.
I'm 36 now.
But I've been queer my whole life, like sexuality-wise.
I've just always known that like, like I start coming out as like bi when I was 12.
So that was just, it's always been a part of me as like an identity I knew was there.
But I think gender always, looking back at my life, gender was always like this thing
that I kept behind me because it was like, I don't feel right on how I am right now,
but it's not, I don't want to be like a man.
Yeah, like you felt like it was maybe a light switch and there weren't any other choices.
Yeah.
And so I feel like in the last decade, you know, people have really, you know, Instagram,
Facebook, social media really does help in reaching more people.
And it was really nice to follow people that were like, oh, actually, this is how I feel.
And this is how I see masculinity.
And you don't have to have this toxic feeling about manhood or masculinity, but also you
don't have to identify as a man.
And you know, there's just so many different aspects.
And I feel like the internet really helped that.
I think anytime that you're that like the societal norm of whatever identity a gender
is, right?
So like male, female, whatever.
I think when you feel differently about your body and how you express that and how people
view you through that lens, I think that that's transgender.
I think it's like, you know, whether it has to do with like, you are very triggered by
your body parts or whatever, like not everyone is like you can be trans on binary and still
want to not have top surgery.
Like that's not, I think people automatically assume that it's about always body dysmorphia
and then that's a part of it.
But I think it's different for everyone.
I think it's just like a big journey.
It's like an umbrella term.
It's like being queer.
I feel like being queer just means that like you're different and like you're not setting
to the norm, but that can be anything.
I mean, I like that connection a lot.
So yeah, I definitely like, I don't get that upset about people misdemeanoring me, but
it's as time goes on, I think it bothers me more than I want to admit.
Oh, it's not because I don't identify very much with like growing up as a woman.
I was, you know, that's just how my life was.
So I don't like take away that idea from myself.
But I think it's definitely something I think about when like people are just like shying
me to death.
I'm like...
Yeah, I was actually going to ask you that.
There's like some, I don't know if it's a dating app or a social media thing where you're
like, you know, I'm blank and laughing about it or I'm blank and serious about it or whatever
it is.
Or if it's like your religion or your something.
And I was kind of like, I feel like that's a question for anyone on the trans spectrum
of like your pronouns, like your pronouns are blank and you don't really care or it's
really important to you or like it's hurtful to hear anything else, you know.
Right.
Yeah, there's a whole spectrum.
How much patience do you have for the world?
Yeah, or just like, I mean, I definitely have met people who are like, I just don't care.
You use any of them and it doesn't mean anything to me.
Those are just, you know, just labels, just words.
I'm any of them.
It's fine.
Like, some people work really hard to have those pronouns, you know?
Yeah, definitely.
It's not just a flip of a switch and all of a sudden everyone's respecting you and understanding
you and you know, being queer and trans takes work and at least give us our pronouns.
I've just never, I don't know.
I try not to let language ruin everything.
It's just what we've been taught.
I can't say that I'm perfect, you know?
I meet people and I assume things about their parents.
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, that's just how we were brought up.
Absolutely.
I'm not like on a higher plane just because I identify as trans.
I've still been warped and...
It's so hard to reprogram things.
But that goes into everything we interact with in the world, you know?
Every time we meet a new person, there's this programming of trying to put them in a category
and one of those categories is what gender are they?
Right.
And then we start to make a lot of assumptions about who they are based off that gender,
you know?
People's experience, which granted, how people see you in the world is how, is the environment
you grow up in.
You know, if you've grown up and you're a cis male, cisgender means that you identify
with your biological body that you were born with.
You know, if you are that person, you don't even have an aspect of what transgender would
even be like because you are just living your life the way you were programmed to live it.
I'm a man.
I dress like a man.
Yeah.
All of this feels right to me.
Yeah, this is just right.
Gender is so weird.
It's like something we've totally made up.
And you can even, I don't know, kind of dumb it down to fashion.
It's just like, oh, you wore that sweater, that's more masculine.
What the hell does that mean?
What does it mean?
We just make it up.
Oh, that's just cut more manly.
Sure.
I guess.
Or even, you know, as I embrace more and more my queerness, I definitely have moments of
like, you know, oh, this haircut makes me feel like I'm expressing my queerness.
What does that even mean?
So you gave kind of a little mini overview, but I'm kind of curious about how you would
characterize your story when it comes to your relationship with gender and also with Pauly.
I think they're intertwined in the fact that Pauly gave me a sense of autonomy that I did
not before that, I feel like I was living this like gay truth, but that was trying to
fit into heteronormativity, like escalators that like, you know, oh, I'm going to meet
the person and then they're the love of my life and we're going to get married and we're
going to have kids and we're going to buy a house and look, we're normal.
Like we're going to get married because we can do this now.
Yeah.
There's this one thing that's different about us, but every other way.
Yeah.
Every other way though.
We're all different, we're all different.
Yeah.
And I think for a long time I held onto that.
I was always Pauly in some way, you know, I was always wanting to be flirtatious or
whatever, cause Pauly could be whatever you want, whatever boundaries or agreements you
have.
But like, I think it gave me permission to actually like see who I was, which included
my gender that I just didn't want to like talk about or deal with.
I did.
So I think it really did come together.
That's really powerful that opening up to Pauly then kind of like opened up.
I do feel like I can relate to that part of that is just the idea that like, once you
start questioning certain things, you just keep questioning other and other things.
So whether it's, you know, in this case, it might just be monogamy.
I'm questioning whether that's a thing I need to do in relationships and then I'm going
to start questioning, you know, everything else in the world.
I just like always had this, these connections with people.
And like, again, Pauly doesn't have to be romantic.
I think that's something I've learned too, is that like my friends and I have, I would
say they're a part of my Pauly life because I give them just as much energy as I would
a partner.
Like I, my friends are my family.
Like we talk about everything.
We spend time together every week.
It's a very like community based thing.
And I feel like Pauly gives you that.
Like you get to see that it's more than just like blood relation or someone you're marrying.
It's like a whole community, which I love.
Yeah, totally.
That's been a big part of my evolution with Pauly too is like, and I think even the culture
of Pauly is starting to get into that more and more is like, it's not just about romantic
relationships or sexual relationships that like platonic and friendships and other types
of connections are just as important and are just as much a part of the Pauly label.
Right.
Yeah.
I love it.
So I think you've, you've, you've shared how Pauly Yamory influenced your relationship
with gender or identifying as trans.
Now that you do identify that way, has that changed Pauly for you at all?
I don't know if it's, well, I think it's kind of hard to date in general, like especially
nowadays cause it's like all of it's online and I'm just like an in-person human.
Like I want to meet you.
I want to like know who you are.
I don't want to have all this like small talk via text message.
Like, Oh, what'd you do today?
It's cold.
Like it's all stupid.
I don't want that.
Yeah, I get that.
Yeah.
Like who wants to do that?
Um, and so I think that's the hardest part, especially like people just look at this like
snippet of a profile picture and then like, you know, I'm very open.
So I'm just like, well, I'm trans and Pauly and blah, blah, blah.
So if you're looking for like a woman, that's not what I am.
And you know, you get some creeps, you get some weirdos.
Yeah.
Um, and, or you just get like people that ask you questions that you're like, that's
inappropriate.
Like I, sorry.
Next time.
I'll do that.
Bye.
Yeah.
And the fact that people can, uh, if, if you're finding people online, they can use that as
a way to filter either for you to show up or not show up.
I, uh, one of my friends that's trans like was exploring what it was like when they put
themselves as different genders and how many new people showed up.
I forget what she, um, said it to that, you know, suddenly all these new people showed
up.
I'm the same person.
I have the same photos.
I have the same info about me.
And suddenly when I do this little toggle, this little trigger, suddenly I get a totally
different reaction.
But I don't know.
Dating is hard.
Like I just, yeah.
Um, and I've also, I, I started taking testosterone about two and a half years ago.
Um, and that really changed my like sexuality or like just like my attraction.
Oh yeah.
So like, you know, like the, who you're attracted to.
Yeah.
Like, I mean, I've always been set up queer.
I've never like identified as a lesbian or anything like that to limiting.
Um, but I have mainly been with cis women.
Um, and you know, now I'm, it's just very like, just give me the humans, baby.
Like I don't care.
And before it was really like that.
It took some of those limiters off.
Like yeah.
And I, maybe it was also like feeling more comfortable in my body.
I think that that's like a huge thing, you know, because I had a lot of issues with men
just because of how I was treated as a woman being viewed by a man.
But now like, you know, it's different.
That makes a lot of sense.
I think that would be, that could be both scary and exciting, you know, like the way
you've all these things that you've known for so long have changed, which is cool.
But it's also like, now you've got to relearn everything.
Yeah.
And like, I don't know, we're getting old.
Like, I mean, I'm just saying like every, every year I learn more about like who I am.
Yeah.
What's something you feel like people misunderstand about being non-binary?
I think that people want like a clear definition of things and like the thing with non-binary
and that transgender in general that like scares people is that the thing is like concrete.
Like, you know, that's why like people ask about people's body parts and stuff because
they don't know.
Like they don't know how to like, there has to be this like concrete definition of what
makes you you.
And really it's not anybody's business.
Yeah.
We're all way too concerned with other people, but.
And their body parts.
And their body parts for some unknown reason.
But like, I really do think that that's a part of non-binary that people get really
confused about.
It's like non-binary people are more masculine.
Is that like how it's supposed to be?
No, you don't have like, that's not, that's the point is that you're breaking whatever
barrier that someone put on you and you're just being who you want to be.
Yeah.
So that's like, I wish people could see like the whole picture and not just like a snippet
of, oh, that person's a they, them, you know, like, like they don't even like get it.
It's just, yeah, the whole story.
There's a story.
Everyone has a story.
Be curious.
Yeah.
Ask questions.
Not about body parts though.
Yeah.
Oh God.
I'm like, this is so cheesy.
Like it is.
This sounds, this, this sounds kind of cheesy, but it might have a good answer, which is
what superpower do you feel like being non-binary has given you?
Oh, um, well one, I get like all the good parts of like every gender really.
Um, that sounds amazing.
Yeah.
Because again, I grew, I think it's a great that I was born a woman.
Like I got to like experience that.
Um, and then also I've been able to just like really think about my body and how I've wanted
it to feel and look, um, which has just been like a really life-changing thing.
It's crazy what like I spent like every day, multiple times a day thinking about how much
I hated my body.
And now it's like not even close to that all because I just reconstructed my chest.
Um, so it's just like, it's like, it's life-saving.
It really is.
You know, like, but yeah, I think my superpower is just like being able to like see through
different perspectives of gender, deconstruct it and make it my own.
You know, my gender is mine.
Like it's no one else's.
It doesn't matter what label you put on it.
Non-binary, whatever.
Like it's me, it's Vicky, whatever.
Um, that's my gender.
And I think that's like what I love about it so much.
And we're back.
Yeah.
What do you think?
Oh my gosh, Nova, your conversation with Vic gave me all the feels.
Yeah.
I'm feeling so good.
Gosh, that was good.
Totally.
I just want to give a really big shout out to Vic.
Yes.
Thank them for, um, sharing their story with us and their time and coming down to the studio
and we just had a blast.
Yeah, it was amazing.
So until next time.
Yeah.
Thanks for joining us.
Thanks for coming.
Bye.