1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,920 Welcome to our podcast, The Why in the 20s. 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:09,920 My name is Viv. 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:10,920 And I'm Nat. 4 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:16,240 We are two counselors in our mid-20s navigating our adulthood away from our home country, 5 00:00:16,240 --> 00:00:22,880 exploring the why questions we encounter relating to relationships, identities, and uncertainties. 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,840 So whether you're listening to our podcast while going for your walk or doing the chores, 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:36,440 welcome on board and let the journey begin. 8 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:41,480 Welcome back to a new episode of The Why in your 20s. 9 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:42,480 How is everyone? 10 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:43,480 How are you, Viv? 11 00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:44,480 Why are you laughing? 12 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:45,480 It's good. 13 00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:46,480 It's good. 14 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:54,040 I was having a really interesting conversation with Viv yesterday. 15 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:59,160 I was sharing one of my very cute, wholesome encounters. 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:00,160 Not really. 17 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:08,360 Well, you turn it into a very creepy, scary story, but that's not what I intended to. 18 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,640 I was expecting another reaction, but it's very cute. 19 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:18,400 So the story is, last week I was walking one of the dogs that I used to walk. 20 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:25,240 And it's quite normal for me to smile and have a quick conversation with other pet owners 21 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,400 as well while I'm walking the dog. 22 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:35,440 So last week I bumped into an old lady and it's very interesting because the first thing 23 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:40,400 is the dog meet each other and we're like, oh, they seem to get along. 24 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:47,200 Out of the blue, the old lady said, oh, never underestimate how powerful a smile and a short 25 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,160 conversation are. 26 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:54,720 Like you never know how lonely a person can be and maybe that's all they need. 27 00:01:54,720 --> 00:02:01,760 And I immediately feel like click with that grandma because I feel like a smile is my 28 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,200 superpower as well. 29 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:09,720 I think immediately my response was that definitely the old lady felt very lonely. 30 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:10,720 That's why she said that. 31 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:16,880 I think I thought that as well, or maybe she think I look very lonely. 32 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,680 And we're chit chatting and of course I asked about, oh, what else? 33 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,680 It's very random of me to ask as well. 34 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,280 I'm like, oh, what is the number one tips that you would give to young people? 35 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,360 Like suddenly interviewing the grandma. 36 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,520 It's a very cliche question as well. 37 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:38,240 I think because I was looking for some wow moments, like, I don't know, of the blue 38 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,600 subtle interviewing the grandma saying, what are the number one tips that you would give 39 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,520 to young people about relationships? 40 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:51,720 Because she said she's with her husband for like six, it's the 66th anniversary and they're 41 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,680 born like 1930 something. 42 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,960 So she's like 80 something years old. 43 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:02,360 So I was like, oh, what is the secret of this long lasting relationship? 44 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:03,360 Compromising. 45 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:04,360 I'm kidding. 46 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:05,360 I'm kidding. 47 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:11,040 I like compromising having that, you know, caring, understanding personalities. 48 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:15,520 And she's like, go find someone that has similar interests as you. 49 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:16,520 And that's like, I don't know. 50 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:21,640 I don't know if this I should be disappointed or I was shocked at the response she gave, 51 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:26,640 the answer that she gave it to me because I was expecting something more, something different. 52 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:29,640 Like interest is not the first thing that I could have thought of. 53 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:35,400 But maybe it's for her relationship with her husband that they met through an interest, 54 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:36,400 a common interest. 55 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,840 That's why she gave you that advice. 56 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:40,360 I thought so. 57 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,640 But it's a very interesting and wholesome encounter. 58 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:44,640 And it's not. 59 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,480 No, you and the other friend ruined it. 60 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,840 Yeah, because we were saying that like maybe she is a serial killer. 61 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,440 And then Nat was like, oh, how can a sweet old lady be a serial killer? 62 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,000 No, you can't judge a person based on her appearance. 63 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,040 She has a really nice smile. 64 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,800 Yeah, so do most serial killers. 65 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,120 They're very charming. 66 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,880 And they can work as a family. 67 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:12,880 Exactly. 68 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,520 That's why I don't watch horror or like thriller. 69 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:16,520 I don't watch it either. 70 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,040 But you can just imagine it. 71 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,800 But I'm glad she's not that alert because it means that she didn't experience any or 72 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,400 encounter any quote unquote bad experience. 73 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,680 Well, now I'm thinking not yet. 74 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,960 I hope you don't in the future as well. 75 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,080 No, but I think that's what I told her the same thing as well. 76 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:39,080 That's the number one thing that I like about Australian culture is everyone is so friendly 77 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:45,120 and even in the neighborhood, you say, hey, morning, you know, you smile to each other 78 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,440 and you have like those short conversations. 79 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,960 And maybe sometimes that's what that person needs. 80 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:52,440 That simple connection. 81 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,360 Whereas Hong Kong, you don't have that, right? 82 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:56,360 No. 83 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,600 Maybe that contributes to the crime rate here. 84 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,320 Hong Kong, not so much. 85 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:01,320 Not recently. 86 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,920 Yeah, quite a lot. 87 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:06,640 I don't want to think in that way. 88 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,240 I think everyone should do more. 89 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,040 Yeah, we should all do more. 90 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,520 But what if the serial killers want to do more? 91 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:14,520 Oh, no. 92 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:20,280 Well, I don't know how to debate over that. 93 00:05:20,280 --> 00:05:25,120 Weird, weird conversation that we had. 94 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,360 I just want to share a very cute wholesome encounter over the weekend. 95 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,280 You can let us know if it's a wholesome or a creepy encounter. 96 00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:34,280 It's wholesome. 97 00:05:34,280 --> 00:05:35,280 It's I insist. 98 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:36,280 Okay, sure. 99 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:39,600 And now I have second thought of that old lady. 100 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,240 Next time I'm bumping into her, I might run away. 101 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:43,480 What's so good? 102 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,680 Just be alert, not avoid all encounters. 103 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:50,360 Yeah, but if you're alert, then you can't be authentic to the person because you're 104 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,020 not being truly yourself. 105 00:05:52,020 --> 00:05:53,880 You can be alert and authentic. 106 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,520 I have no in-between. 107 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,320 The balance, the balance between the two is very important. 108 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,440 I either not share or overshare. 109 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,560 That's me. 110 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,960 Anyway, that's the story of this week. 111 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:16,000 Yeah, we should add that we can have like a funny story or like... 112 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,400 Do you have interesting encounter? 113 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,080 I'm sure I have funny story. 114 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,240 Okay, next week is on you. 115 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:23,240 I'll try. 116 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:30,960 I've never heard you share like a funny, interesting encounter. 117 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,280 Yeah, because I don't think that's the first thing that comes to mind when I encounter 118 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:36,280 someone. 119 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:38,200 It's not like I have to share this with someone. 120 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:39,480 I have to share this with Nat. 121 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,880 No, I just keep it like, oh, it's funny. 122 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:42,880 Cool. 123 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,000 Then share it if it's funny. 124 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,000 My life is funny enough. 125 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:52,520 But do you think starting the podcast change how you think as well or not really? 126 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:53,520 As in how? 127 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,640 No, I think I don't know. 128 00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:00,880 Like when I went to a coffee shop, I saw a poster around cold drip coffee. 129 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,400 I can immediately link to an analogy. 130 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,280 I don't think that's the podcast effect. 131 00:07:06,280 --> 00:07:10,440 Or like if I have this encounter and I'm like, oh, I want to share with Viv and I want to 132 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,240 share it on the podcast. 133 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:13,240 No? 134 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:14,240 No. 135 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,600 Well, I'm looking forward to your story next week. 136 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,880 Well, I'm sure the audience are very looking forward to it as well. 137 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:22,880 Maybe I can just make out something. 138 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:23,880 No! 139 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,880 We are here for like authentic, real, true story. 140 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:28,880 10 years ago is okay? 141 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:29,880 No! 142 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:30,880 Okay. 143 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:31,880 We're still in experience. 144 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:32,880 Yep. 145 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:33,880 For sure there's a lot of them. 146 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:34,880 Okay, I'm looking forward to it. 147 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:36,880 I have never shared with you yet, for sure. 148 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:37,880 Okay. 149 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:38,880 I'm all ears and excited. 150 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,880 I'm really, I'm probably going to forget the moment we finish this podcast. 151 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:44,360 I'll remind you next week. 152 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:45,360 Anyway. 153 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:46,360 Yeah. 154 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:47,360 Why don't we go into today's topic? 155 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:48,360 What are we talking about, Nat? 156 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,200 It's a very different atmosphere than the story. 157 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,800 It's about both graduation stress. 158 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:56,800 Wow. 159 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,440 Just even saying those three words. 160 00:07:58,440 --> 00:07:59,440 Three, two, two. 161 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:00,440 Two, three. 162 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,880 Depends if you put a hyphen in it or not. 163 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:03,880 Okay. 164 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:04,880 Yeah. 165 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,200 Like these three words, just saying them gives me stress almost. 166 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:08,200 Yeah. 167 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:13,560 I think it's very, we can both resonate with it because that's what we are, at least that's 168 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,840 what I am experiencing now. 169 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,200 Resonate with it too much. 170 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:19,200 Yeah. 171 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:20,200 Yeah. 172 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:26,720 So let's start with, because we've just completed our master, do you want to start by sharing 173 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,480 your undergraduate experience? 174 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:29,480 Yeah. 175 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:35,560 I experienced more of that stress of whether I should continue further studies or find 176 00:08:35,560 --> 00:08:38,920 a job or like what kind of field I want to be in. 177 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:40,920 What degree you're in? 178 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:42,320 I study marketing. 179 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:43,320 Right. 180 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:44,320 Okay. 181 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,960 So then after that undergrad, after I graduated, I didn't know where to go. 182 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,920 Like what kind of path I should head down to. 183 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,840 I didn't know if I should stay here. 184 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:59,720 I didn't know I should go back home to Hong Kong or anywhere else. 185 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,040 But it was just a lot of uncertainty around that. 186 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,640 Not knowing if I should do further studies or find a job. 187 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:07,640 Yeah. 188 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:09,720 And finding a job, like what would it be? 189 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,920 Because honestly, marketing is just so broad. 190 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:12,920 Yeah. 191 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,440 It's just, it's so broad and it's nothing at the same time. 192 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:17,440 Yes, absolutely. 193 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:22,120 And it's just very hard to know what kind of job I can find. 194 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,760 But if it's further studies, I know I don't want to do business related things anymore. 195 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:34,560 And my parents were, maybe you can do more about the, more of the social science because 196 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:38,840 they feel that, oh, for example, accounting, a lot of people say accounting is a good job. 197 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:45,720 But then honestly, it might be taken over by a robot or a gas system. 198 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:50,480 So, but this connecting to humans, you can never replace it by robot. 199 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,120 You can't replace it by technology. 200 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:53,120 Right. 201 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:58,560 So they were like, oh yeah, you can just go through that and then decide later what kind 202 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:02,440 of career you actually want to pursue. 203 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:07,760 So is it back to back, like your undergraduate and master or that's a gap in between? 204 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:08,760 No. 205 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:13,440 So this is actually my second master and I did a previous master in social science in 206 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,480 psychology at school settings kind of thing. 207 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,760 And there was a six month gap, I believe. 208 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,760 No, three to four, three to four. 209 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:28,480 And then I had to do a prerequisite course, which was online. 210 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,160 It was an immediate start. 211 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:37,720 So I stayed behind for a few, one or two months in Australia and then went back home and just 212 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,800 did nothing again for two, three months. 213 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:45,640 And studying for that course, that prerequisite course, that was the first time I studied 214 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:50,520 because I really wanted to do well. 215 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:57,840 And I feel like it's, I can't just, I can't just not study because it's a course where 216 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:03,280 I actually have to get good enough grades to get into the course itself. 217 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,200 And it's not like marketing where I can just use my common sense. 218 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:07,200 Yeah. 219 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:12,640 So going back to that six month gap that you did for unquote nothing, are you okay with 220 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,560 that or you have other feelings? 221 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:18,840 For me at that moment, I felt okay with it. 222 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:23,960 I felt like, because I know after this one, that one year master, I have to continue studying 223 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:24,960 as well. 224 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:31,520 So I felt like, okay, maybe I can rest for a bit and just slow down and find different 225 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,400 hobbies or interests at that moment. 226 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:35,400 It was okay. 227 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:40,360 But my parents were not that happy with it, especially my dad wanted me to do something. 228 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,920 It's like getting experience, some work experience. 229 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:47,080 Yeah, getting experience, work experience, just doing something with my life. 230 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:53,960 He wasn't very adamant in me finding a job, but just finding something to do. 231 00:11:53,960 --> 00:12:01,080 So that six month, I think even though I was planning to do the prerequisite course and 232 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:05,760 that master course, it was very uncertain because I kept going back and forth. 233 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:11,800 I was like, should I still continue with it or should I just give up and find a job immediately? 234 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:17,240 Like even if you have plans ahead, you still feel uncertain and not sure whether you have 235 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:18,760 made the right decision. 236 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:24,040 Yeah, because if I go into that, I'm going to have to spend even more time in further 237 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:25,040 studies. 238 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,120 It's not that just, it's not just that one year. 239 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:32,400 I have to continue to study to get another master of, well, now it's master of counseling, 240 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,080 but at the time I didn't know one. 241 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,840 It was just more related to psychology, civil sciences, those stuff. 242 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,840 Do you compare that with your sister or like your friends? 243 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,920 I think I definitely compare with my sister. 244 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,080 My sister was studying also. 245 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,240 So I felt like, okay, as long as she's studying, me studying is not that big of a deal. 246 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:52,240 Right. 247 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:53,240 So it's a good comparison. 248 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:54,960 Yeah, it's a good comparison. 249 00:12:54,960 --> 00:13:00,600 With my friends, because Australia is three years and most of the universities are four 250 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,800 years, they were still studying as well. 251 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,960 And then whether, like some of them are studying in law or med even longer. 252 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,920 So they are studying as well. 253 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,440 So there wasn't really that much of a gap. 254 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:20,920 But to be fair, I didn't really compare because I lost contact with them. 255 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,720 And you're not really on social media anyway. 256 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:23,720 Yeah, exactly. 257 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:24,720 I'm not really on social media. 258 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,640 So there wasn't much to compare. 259 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:28,640 What about you? 260 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,680 Do you remember your undergrad? 261 00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:33,400 I know you study psychology as an undergrad. 262 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,320 Did you always have that plan of going into masters after that? 263 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:43,960 I think continuous study is always in my mind because my sister is also studying. 264 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:49,080 So same as you, I feel like it makes sense for me to continue to study. 265 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:53,040 And I do double degree, so psychology and marketing. 266 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:58,680 At first, I'm pretty sure I'm going to marketing because I'm very interested in it. 267 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:03,720 And also, as I said in the previous episode, like few episodes before that, I'm not really 268 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,840 good at psychology subjects. 269 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:10,280 So I was thinking, oh, maybe I can just stick with marketing and go from that path. 270 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,640 But I think it's towards the second, third year that I really interested in psychology 271 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,920 that I decided to go on that route. 272 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,960 And but you know how hard it is to gain to honors. 273 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,640 And my English already not good to begin with, it makes it, and it's very competitive. 274 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,180 So I didn't get into honors. 275 00:14:27,180 --> 00:14:32,960 I think that gives me a shock because my plan is study the bachelor and then honors and 276 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,580 then master in psychology and be a psychologist. 277 00:14:36,580 --> 00:14:39,960 And I think that's what a lot of people saying psychology will experiences. 278 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:46,000 Oh, what now if I don't get into honors or even after they finish honors, they didn't 279 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,840 get into master. 280 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:48,840 What now? 281 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:54,720 Because I start in July, it's like the second semester after discussion with my parents, 282 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,920 I decided to enroll in master of counseling, but it only started in February. 283 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:04,840 So I have like a six month gap as you and I couldn't go home because of COVID. 284 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,920 And also couldn't stay in college because it's very expensive. 285 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:17,000 So I just need to move out and make my way till next year, February. 286 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,760 Survive until it starts. 287 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:20,760 Yeah. 288 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:26,880 And I think it's a very difficult time for me because I was sleeping on my friend's couch 289 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,520 and it really deteriorates my mental health as well. 290 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:31,880 Is Sydney or in Brisbane? 291 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:37,360 In Sydney because the rent, if you, if I still, and I'm very thankful that the friend offered 292 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,220 to let me stay. 293 00:15:39,220 --> 00:15:45,120 So I, the rent is cheap and then I do free part-time job at that time. 294 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:50,640 Just to earn some income to pay the rent plus occupy my time. 295 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,020 And also it's COVID. 296 00:15:52,020 --> 00:15:54,600 So it's like even harder to find a job. 297 00:15:54,600 --> 00:16:00,640 I'm very thankful that I got it and I passed through that six month, but it's not too bad 298 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:07,120 for me because I know I have plans ahead that I have that two years of master coming in 299 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:08,120 the future. 300 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,760 So my only thought is all I need is to go through this six months, even though how hard 301 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,440 it is, once I moved to Brisbane, things will get better. 302 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,440 So that's just my mindset. 303 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,440 I wouldn't say it's too much uncertainty. 304 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,760 It's just a short term stress, I would say. 305 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:26,760 Yeah. 306 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,440 So how did you cope with that stress? 307 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,080 What were some of the thoughts that were going through your head when you were sleeping at 308 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:34,400 your friend's place? 309 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:35,920 Pretty bad. 310 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,840 I wouldn't say I cope well. 311 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,080 I ruined friendship as well. 312 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:47,200 Because I don't know how to express my feelings and like sharing accommodation with friends 313 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:48,720 is not an easy thing. 314 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,120 Yeah, no, definitely not. 315 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:51,120 And of course it's me. 316 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,080 I learned the hard way. 317 00:16:55,080 --> 00:17:00,120 But yeah, I wouldn't say I cope it well, but I learned a lot from that experience. 318 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:01,120 Yeah. 319 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,120 Definitely. 320 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:07,320 It's not an easy, easy journey, especially those six months. 321 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:12,320 Aside from working, you don't have much to do because you're waiting that period out. 322 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:13,320 Yeah. 323 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,920 And with COVID and everything, definitely it was not easy for sure. 324 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:17,920 Yeah. 325 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:23,320 But moving forward, how was it different from your after post-grad, like the feelings of 326 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:24,320 it? 327 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:28,800 I think now looking back in the underbread is that six months is so easy. 328 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:29,800 Oh, really? 329 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,720 When compared to what I'm experiencing now. 330 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:33,720 Oh, okay. 331 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:39,240 Because I think now you have no what's next, like you don't have things to expect. 332 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,440 There's no end dates. 333 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:42,640 Yes. 334 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:47,880 And I think that's something hard about adulthood is you're not no longer in school that you 335 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:48,960 have deadlines to meet. 336 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,920 And then you know, after that deadlines, you can rest for a period is you don't know when 337 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:55,520 is next time you can rest. 338 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,520 And of course, I know you have like holiday or whatever, but that's different. 339 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,120 So I will say it's very different. 340 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:06,240 And of course, now looking back, every time you look back, it seems easy, but when you're 341 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,240 in the moment, it feels different. 342 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:13,520 But for now, after the master, I think I'm more stressed because I couldn't find a job 343 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,920 and you have a lot more things to concern. 344 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:23,700 You continuously paying rent, paying bills, paying health insurance, and now even paying 345 00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:26,240 our professional insurance as well. 346 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,680 So that's accumulates, but then you don't have an income. 347 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:37,140 So every day you keep seeing your bank account going down and there's no increase. 348 00:18:37,140 --> 00:18:42,620 And it's not like I was back in undergrad that I can do part-time jobs that is unrelated 349 00:18:42,620 --> 00:18:44,240 to my profession. 350 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:49,840 You still can, but then my mindset is I just want to spend more time looking for jobs. 351 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:51,440 And I don't know if that's good and bad. 352 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:58,200 We can discuss it later, but that's just what I'm feeling now is the stress of more uncertainty 353 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:03,640 on not knowing when I will get a job, what job I will be working. 354 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:08,840 And I can go down that spiral of what if I don't get a job until end of December? 355 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,860 You know, that's how I feel at the moment. 356 00:19:12,860 --> 00:19:15,000 Is it the same for you? 357 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,520 I think it's a bit different. 358 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:25,480 That's why I was shocked that you said it's worse now than the six months. 359 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:32,760 Because now is I'm pretty content with what's happening in my life right now. 360 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:38,300 And obviously there is some stress where I feel like I should be getting a job. 361 00:19:38,300 --> 00:19:40,280 What makes you think you should get a job? 362 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,040 I think it's just after your studies because I'm not going to continue studying. 363 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,640 I think there are some responsibility as a human being. 364 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,400 I can't be not doing anything. 365 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:54,040 If I'm not studying, then I should be doing something. 366 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:59,360 For example, maybe personal growth, maybe professional development. 367 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:03,160 It doesn't have to be a job, I would say, but it just has to be something. 368 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,600 Again, I think that goes back to my dad's mindset of you have to be doing something. 369 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,880 You can't be not doing anything in your life. 370 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,040 I actually, I don't mind. 371 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:17,200 And I was thinking a few days ago that I can just find a random job that's unrelated to 372 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,080 my field and just to cover everything. 373 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,240 And that's very possible in Australia, to be honest. 374 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:30,360 In Hong Kong, that's not really possible, I would say, to cover rent and everything. 375 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:32,640 But here it's, that's something good. 376 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:33,640 Doable. 377 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:34,640 About, yeah, it's doable. 378 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,080 It's something good about this country. 379 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:38,840 It's not country, maybe Brisbane. 380 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:44,640 It's more about that you can survive based on your salary. 381 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:49,880 So I don't actually feel that stressed out of having to find a job that's related to 382 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:50,880 counseling. 383 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,720 I mean, obviously it's great if I can. 384 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,560 But I'm satisfied with not having one at the moment. 385 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,800 I feel like it will come eventually. 386 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:05,640 Yeah, I think I can just have a random job and work on this podcast and then work on 387 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,560 myself and professional development and all that. 388 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,080 So I don't mind having any kind of job, to be honest. 389 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,320 I think it's an appreciation time again. 390 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,920 I was really stressed at the beginning of the year because at that time, I don't know, 391 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:23,920 I don't have any job. 392 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:29,400 I think at least now I have like a casual role, but back then I don't. 393 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:34,320 And I'm just like, oh, I don't know when I'll get a job or I have like an invisible timeline 394 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,440 or standard for myself that I need to start working full time within this period. 395 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:40,880 And I was really stressed. 396 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,960 So I was talking to Viv at that time. 397 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:50,200 I'm like, I feel like every time when we hang out in a big group, it's different now because 398 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,840 everyone is so stressed. 399 00:21:53,840 --> 00:22:00,120 And then Viv is like, you're projecting your personal feelings on others. 400 00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:05,000 I'm not saying other people are not stressed, but I think it's not that stressful to cause 401 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:10,560 the whole environment to be very stressful and not happy, per se. 402 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,360 Yeah, I think because I'm very sensitive to other people's feeling as well. 403 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:23,280 So that might magnifies it, but also in deep is a very stressful net going on. 404 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,040 And then what you said, I was like, oh, that makes me reflect. 405 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,000 Maybe it's me that I need to focus on, not others. 406 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,800 And then I think that conversation goes on and on, or like it's a different day. 407 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,120 No, I think it was just a cycle of, oh, I cannot find a job. 408 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:40,840 Right, other people are stressed. 409 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:41,840 I don't know. 410 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,000 I thought it was a cycle, but the conversation kept going back to, oh, I cannot find a job. 411 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,000 I'm stressed. 412 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,320 And then it goes uphill a bit and then it goes downhill. 413 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,520 It's like, oh, I can take my time. 414 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,880 Oh, but I don't know when I'll get the job. 415 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,040 I need to keep finding a job. 416 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,040 Oh my God, I'm so stressed. 417 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:03,560 I think every conversation that we had, like any topic that we had, we could go back to 418 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,400 say, oh, but we don't have a job. 419 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,680 It's like, oh, are you free that day? 420 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:08,680 Oh, right. 421 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:09,680 Yeah. 422 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:10,680 Of course you're free. 423 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:11,680 You don't have a job. 424 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:12,680 Yeah. 425 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:13,680 You want to do that. 426 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:14,680 Oh, of course you're free, but you don't have money. 427 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:15,680 But how can you do that? 428 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,080 Because you don't have a job, so you don't have money. 429 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,000 But I think that goes on and on. 430 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:25,400 And then one question that you asked me is what makes you so unhappy about not having 431 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:26,400 a job? 432 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,480 And then I'm like, oh, I long for that growth. 433 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:36,240 I want that growth I experienced during placement last year. 434 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,600 And you said, do you really need to get a job to grow? 435 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,200 And I'm like, oh, that is true. 436 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,480 Then I start focusing on how to grow. 437 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,680 And I think that's when we start this podcast. 438 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,520 Oh, is that why? 439 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,820 I think that's something I want to do. 440 00:23:52,820 --> 00:23:55,200 And because of a friend's conversation we had. 441 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,200 Oh my goodness. 442 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,000 It's, it's immediately actually, it's the day after. 443 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,440 And then we started talking about this podcast. 444 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:02,440 Yes. 445 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:03,440 Right. 446 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,880 So, the whole story of born of our podcast. 447 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:12,280 I'm very, I'm truly deeply very thankful because you, it's very hard to find a friend that 448 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,160 can pull you out of that. 449 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,800 Oh, and you know, like some people will say, yeah, we need to find a job. 450 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:26,280 But it's, I think I will go in that spiral on and on if that conversation didn't exist. 451 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:32,320 And I will be even more stressed now because I'm every day, my routine is wake up, look 452 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,360 for a job, type cover letter, send it out. 453 00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:38,360 Look for more jobs. 454 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:40,600 The way you say it's so dull. 455 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:41,600 It's so boring. 456 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,560 But that's what I was doing at that time. 457 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:45,560 Yeah. 458 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:50,760 But I think that links to the other point that I want to say is the unhelpful belief 459 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:57,800 because I, I would think if I don't have a job, I don't deserve to have fun because 460 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:58,800 you need to earn it. 461 00:24:58,800 --> 00:24:59,800 The fun, you need to earn it. 462 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,360 It's not like you can have it anytime you want. 463 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:06,960 How can you go out and catch up with a friend if you don't have a job, you don't have 464 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:07,960 a job, you don't have money. 465 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,800 You shouldn't waste your time to go out, hang out with friends while that time can 466 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,280 use to find a job. 467 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,120 You might just have missed that chance. 468 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:16,120 And that's what I've been thinking. 469 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:19,240 I don't deserve to have fun, you know? 470 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,160 So I rarely hang out with friends unless needed. 471 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,640 Needed. 472 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,920 Like someone going to Interstate or they're leaving the country like a farewell dinner 473 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:29,920 with them. 474 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:30,920 It's very toxic. 475 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:31,920 I know. 476 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:37,440 I mean, now looking back, I think it's very toxic, but it's just the thought that as 477 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,320 we said, we learned when we are young, you earned your reward. 478 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,040 So you have to earn to have fun. 479 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,040 Yeah. 480 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,040 Yeah. 481 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:52,880 That's the way sometimes it might be helpful as, as it may motivate you to find a job to 482 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:53,880 send a cover letters. 483 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,200 But at the same time, again, it's back to the balance of it. 484 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:03,600 It's like you deserve to have fun as well because having that fun will motivate you 485 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,480 and having the energy of sending out cover letters, sending out resumes. 486 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:15,160 So it's a balance between the two of completely withdrawing from having fun. 487 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,800 And I think that's what self-compassion is. 488 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:24,680 Sometimes we think self-care or self-compassion is like a selfish thing to do. 489 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,120 And it can be the opposite. 490 00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:31,840 It can be brings a lot more, as you said, motivation to look for more jobs, having that 491 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,080 little gap or little rest really helps. 492 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,080 Yeah. 493 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,080 Yeah. 494 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,840 I think self-compassion is what I needed, which I didn't give myself permission to 495 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:41,840 have at that time. 496 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,320 Did you ever share this with your parents? 497 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,440 No, no, I didn't share. 498 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,760 Like that you're stressed out and finding a job. 499 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:55,800 Well, I think I'm not stressed enough that I need to. 500 00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:02,120 Like again, I feel like it's my responsibility and there's something that everyone experienced 501 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:03,120 that. 502 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:04,120 True. 503 00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:07,160 It might be, but at the same time, you can be stressed about it. 504 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:08,160 Yeah. 505 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,960 I think internally, I also don't want to burden my parents. 506 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,480 I'm like, they can't help me to find a job anyway. 507 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:22,360 And again, it's me that I feel like I can talk myself out and handle it very well. 508 00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:25,560 At least I study a counseling course. 509 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,160 I can counsel myself. 510 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:28,640 That's my logic at that time. 511 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:35,160 Well, which I guess I'm glad because it didn't go further down, but no, I did not share. 512 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:36,160 Yeah. 513 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:41,280 And I think you're very the opposite of me because I'm very stressed, but you are very 514 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:42,560 content. 515 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,080 I think it's a balance. 516 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:50,240 I feel like a bit more stress will help me and motivate me to find a job. 517 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:51,640 I think a bit more stress. 518 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:57,360 I think for me, an optimal level of stress, that's perfect in motivating me to do something 519 00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:00,560 about it and not just avoid it. 520 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,000 I think it's a very extreme you and I. 521 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,400 You're very stressed out, very motivated in that sense. 522 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:11,520 But for me, I think I'm too content that I avoid it as well. 523 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,520 So it's a balance between the two. 524 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:23,080 And I actually shared that I was stressed or content or whatnot with my parents, but 525 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,080 I just told them. 526 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,960 Obviously, as Asian parents, they ask, not Asian parents, it's just parents ask how you're 527 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:29,960 doing. 528 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:30,960 Yeah. 529 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,520 Especially they know I'm finding a job at the moment. 530 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,400 So they're just asking how's that process going? 531 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,400 And I said, oh, I sent out a few, but nothing much. 532 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,640 And they're like, oh, okay. 533 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,360 So what are you doing now? 534 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,760 And I finally shared with them, oh, I'm doing this podcast. 535 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:50,760 I'm doing that. 536 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:51,760 I'm doing that. 537 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,000 And it was my spare time. 538 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,760 Well, not spare time. 539 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,240 It's just my time now. 540 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,240 See, we are going that way. 541 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,240 Okay. 542 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:02,240 And they're like, oh, okay. 543 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,240 So you're not actually not doing anything. 544 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:05,680 You are doing something. 545 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:12,200 You are growing in that sense that this podcast will help you grow more as a person and help 546 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:13,200 others as well. 547 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,200 Yeah, perhaps. 548 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,280 And hopefully, yeah, hopefully just not do any harm, honestly. 549 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,280 Yeah. 550 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,600 And just other stuff, like, for example, running or like exercising. 551 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:23,600 Yeah. 552 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:24,600 That's something that I'm doing. 553 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:25,600 Yeah. 554 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,320 They're like, oh, so you are doing something. 555 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:32,160 You're not just resting at home and completely withdrawing with everything. 556 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:33,160 Yeah. 557 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,880 And then even spending time with my friends and they're like, oh, so you are spending 558 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,760 time with your friends and that's nice. 559 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,720 And they're very supportive. 560 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:44,800 And I'm just, honestly, I'm very appreciative of them and thankful for them being so supportive. 561 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:45,800 Yeah. 562 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,760 My parents said the same thing. 563 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,960 They're like, which surprised me? 564 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,600 They said, take your time. 565 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:52,600 No rush. 566 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,800 But I think it's just, I already internalized it. 567 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,280 You better find a job soon. 568 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,040 I think it's hard to assume where they're coming from. 569 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:08,660 So I just take it as it is and not assuming more about it. 570 00:30:08,660 --> 00:30:12,480 Because if I do assume it, I will go down that spiral. 571 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,360 But what's your thought on people, it's not only your parents, but like other people asking 572 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,960 you, oh, have you found a job yet? 573 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,120 How's your feeling towards that? 574 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,400 Actually it depends on the person. 575 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,840 If I'm closer with them, I feel like I'm a bit more comfortable. 576 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,560 I'll just say, stop asking. 577 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:31,920 I'll tell you when I get a job. 578 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:32,920 Yeah. 579 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:34,240 I think that's not my parents. 580 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,600 I think my parents, I'll just tell them, whatever. 581 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,560 The people who are less close with, they ask. 582 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,560 I think I just assume that they're coming from caring. 583 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,560 Yeah, of course. 584 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:50,240 But it's just very, I think every time they ask, I feel ashamed. 585 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,240 Yeah. 586 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,240 I gotcha. 587 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:53,240 Okay. 588 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,920 I don't know if the audience knew that I gotcha. 589 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,040 I'm sure some other people cannot find a job. 590 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,040 We'll feel the same way. 591 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,040 Yeah, we'll feel the same way. 592 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:02,040 Yeah. 593 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,000 I feel ashamed of saying, oh, I'm, it's just, yeah. 594 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,360 Because I'm, I can't find a job, so I feel very ashamed of it. 595 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:09,360 Yeah. 596 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,800 It feels like, oh, maybe in their eyes, there's something wrong with me. 597 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:13,800 I'm not good enough. 598 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,320 But to be honest, I don't think that about myself. 599 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,120 I just feel like other people might perceive that way. 600 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,240 So I was like, I just laugh at all. 601 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,240 It's like, oh, I haven't, haven't found it. 602 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:25,240 Yeah. 603 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:26,240 I'm unemployed. 604 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:27,240 I've got a lot of free time. 605 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:28,240 I like stuff like that. 606 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:29,240 That's your coping mechanism. 607 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:30,240 Yeah, exactly. 608 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,240 Yeah. 609 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:32,240 I agree. 610 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:40,000 I think most of the people have good intentions of just catching up and stuff. 611 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,000 Yeah. 612 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:46,560 And people I know, they keep asking, oh, any updates on job hunting? 613 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,280 And I think different people take it differently. 614 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,120 For you, you might think of how they perceive you. 615 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,440 But for me, I internalize it and I blame on myself. 616 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,400 I'm like, oh, I'm useless. 617 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,560 I already got my master, but still can't find a full-time job. 618 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,760 But then what makes a difference is how you talk yourself out of it. 619 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:11,600 Like not being too harsh on yourself and appreciate what you're doing. 620 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,600 Right. 621 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:13,960 You, I'm doing a podcast. 622 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:20,320 I'm growing, you know, I'm getting a driver license because I don't know if it's different 623 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,640 from different states and country as well. 624 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,040 But in Queensland, if you're under 25, you need to call it a hundred hours and hold that 625 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,280 learner's drivers for a year. 626 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:35,960 So it's, and a lot of jobs, especially counseling requires a license, no license, don't even 627 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:36,960 come in for an interview. 628 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:37,960 Well, that's what the interviewer said. 629 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,960 I feel like you're saying it to me. 630 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,960 I don't have my driver license. 631 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,920 No, that's what the interviewer told me through the phone. 632 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:47,920 Word by word. 633 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,480 But it's an organization policy that if you don't have a license, you cannot come in for 634 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,000 an interview. 635 00:32:54,000 --> 00:33:01,720 So if I am taking active steps to collect the hours and getting a license, I am taking 636 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,720 active steps to look for volunteering work. 637 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:10,960 I am taking active steps to grow by doing this podcast. 638 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:17,840 And I think because how I wired my brain when I was young that carries on to now that I 639 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:26,280 need to make more deliberate effort in reminding myself and answering back my own criticism. 640 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,480 I think that's my way of handling it. 641 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:34,400 It's not easy, but you need to keep telling yourself that to avoid going downhill. 642 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,320 So I think my takeaway compared to yours is very different. 643 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,520 You worry how people perceive you. 644 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,480 I self sabotage myself. 645 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,120 They're both not healthy. 646 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,560 It doesn't really get comparison. 647 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,200 No, that's not good and bad. 648 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,160 They're both bad. 649 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:53,520 They're both unhelpful. 650 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:58,480 Yeah, but I think it's very healthy to talk it out and I'm sure audience might feel the 651 00:33:58,480 --> 00:33:59,560 same way. 652 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:04,080 And hopefully our experience or our perspective can help some people as well. 653 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,080 Yeah. 654 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:10,440 So when do you kind of go through, go down that spiral of like these unhelpful beliefs? 655 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:15,120 Is it more like when you do job search or when does it usually occur? 656 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,480 I think it's a future cycle. 657 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:25,080 When I bumped into this post-graduation stress term, I realized that's a term called job 658 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,160 search fatigue and I really resonate with it. 659 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:37,800 I go on cycle from motivated to or stress on sending out resume and cover letter to 660 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:44,920 hopeful and excitement when I got a call from them and then disappointment because I don't 661 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,320 even get a chance to interview because I don't have a license or disappointment because I 662 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,160 went for an interview and I didn't hear anything back. 663 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:59,880 And then in between the interview and rejection, I was kind of motivated and I'm quite hopeful. 664 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:04,000 But then once I got rejected, I'm back into that stress mode of I need to keep finding 665 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,000 a job. 666 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,960 I got rejected and you find more so I can get more opportunity. 667 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:14,400 And I think that cycle of keep applying and rejecting is what it means to job search fatigue. 668 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:15,400 Yeah. 669 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,240 I would say it's quite common for people who are looking for a job. 670 00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:22,240 Would you agree or you have a different experience? 671 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:27,760 I agree that that cycle is, it's just very disappointing. 672 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,400 It's disappointing and very exhausting and having going through that experience over 673 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,080 and over again. 674 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:38,920 As you said, if you feel as a cycle, it will just keep going the same thing. 675 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,040 And it's hard to see a way out. 676 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,120 And now applying for jobs is not easy. 677 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,240 It's not just cover letter and resume. 678 00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:49,400 You have to answer like two, three pages of questions. 679 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,720 It's like doing an assignment. 680 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:52,720 Yeah, right. 681 00:35:52,720 --> 00:36:01,200 And I think I've talked to a person, a friend, she's also applying for jobs and she's on 682 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,240 the way to sending out her first, applying for her first job. 683 00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:06,680 She's written her cover letter. 684 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,240 She's written her resume. 685 00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:09,240 Yeah. 686 00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:10,240 It's all there. 687 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:13,080 She uploaded it and then there's a lot of questions. 688 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,040 And once she saw the first question, she gave up. 689 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,000 I mean, she didn't give up. 690 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,680 She just avoided it for a while. 691 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,640 She opened a lot of tabs, but then she just, okay, she's going to pause that for a second 692 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,920 and went to do other stuff like Netflix or whatnot. 693 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:34,320 And I think those questions is, I think we feel as a task. 694 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:39,440 That's why it's so challenging and we want it to be perfect as well. 695 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,280 It's just very stressful in getting that answer out. 696 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:48,360 That's why I think even for my friend, she just stopped at that point. 697 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:54,120 I honestly feel for her, it's the same for I'm sure a lot of people as well. 698 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:55,120 Yeah. 699 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,760 And even when I'm responding, I understand where she's coming from. 700 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,800 And just honestly talking about it, it's very easy. 701 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:08,540 For example, her question was, already see yourself 10 years in time, in this field. 702 00:37:08,540 --> 00:37:13,540 And I just gave her a random answer that I thought of on spot. 703 00:37:13,540 --> 00:37:17,920 And obviously saying it is very easy, but honestly putting it into words and making 704 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,480 it perfect, that's what is stressful. 705 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,220 Yes, exactly. 706 00:37:22,220 --> 00:37:26,760 And the word needs to be professional and perfect phrasing as well. 707 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:27,760 Yeah. 708 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,320 Yeah, I do feel for her as well. 709 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:30,320 Yeah. 710 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:31,320 And I feel for you, honestly. 711 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:32,800 No, yeah, I feel for you too. 712 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,840 No, like so do I, everyone. 713 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:42,120 I feel like it's my responsibility to do it, but also at the same time, that doesn't mean 714 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,400 you can't have some self-compassion for yourself. 715 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,520 I think that's no either this or that. 716 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,600 I think it can be both at the same time, back to that balance. 717 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,480 And it's not just getting rejected. 718 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,480 Like the feedback that the interviewer give it back to you is, we have found someone that 719 00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,560 is more experienced and- 720 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,600 There's nothing you can do about that experience. 721 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,320 Yeah, like there's always someone that have more experience than you. 722 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,240 All you can do is get more experience. 723 00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:14,280 But then by then, if you apply for other jobs, there's always people saying, oh, we found 724 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:15,280 someone more experienced. 725 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:20,240 Yeah, it's a hard thing to overcome because there's nothing much we can change about the 726 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:22,720 experience, years of experience. 727 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:27,320 That's how we, there's only so much that we have experience on. 728 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,720 And we can't lie about it, obviously. 729 00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:34,680 But I'm very hopeful that a job will come to you, a job will come to me, a job will 730 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,880 come to everyone who's finding a job at the moment. 731 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:43,160 I'm very hopeful in the sense where a right job will come to me. 732 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:49,840 Although I'm not very picky, but at the same time, I do get bored of stuff very easily. 733 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:56,240 And I, but then getting used to a place is very, it takes a long time for me as well. 734 00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:57,800 Finding that right fit is more important. 735 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:04,400 And I think that's a very good reminder because once you into that process for a while, you 736 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,000 slowly lower your standard. 737 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,520 You just feel like, oh, I just want a job. 738 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,740 But then what if there's something that you're not interested in or you, that's no point 739 00:39:13,740 --> 00:39:16,400 that you get a job and then quit afterwards. 740 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:21,280 So yes, I think it's a good reminder of knowing what you enjoy and what kind of jobs that 741 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,960 you are interested in. 742 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:28,440 So I think giving yourself permission to be picky is healthy sort of way. 743 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,800 And I'm very privileged in the sense where I can think like this as well. 744 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:37,520 So like if it's more practical side where you really have to pay the rent and it's very 745 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:43,720 immediate that you need money right from the start, then obviously you have to lower your 746 00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:49,040 standard and that's a realistic goal or realistic thing that you have to do for yourself. 747 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,640 And I think you're going to do what you need to do to survive. 748 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,640 And for say, I'm pet sitting, like I'm a pet sitter. 749 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,880 I've talked to some of my friends and some of them might not understand and they laugh 750 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:06,080 like, oh, you did a whole degree just to walk dogs or I know they're like in a joke joking 751 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,320 way, but that's what I want to tell everyone as well. 752 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,280 Giving your friends some compassion as well. 753 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,520 Some people, we just need to get a job. 754 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:19,240 Doesn't need to relate it to your degree to pay rent to survive. 755 00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:20,880 And there's no job beneath you. 756 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:21,880 Honestly. 757 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:29,600 Do whatever that you have to do because there is a need for each job and we all need to 758 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:30,600 respect. 759 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,600 Yeah, we all need to respect it. 760 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:33,600 Exactly. 761 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:38,040 And I think this hot, this episode sounds like we are ranting on like how we couldn't 762 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:43,160 get a job, but I think what's more important that we both mentioned closer to an end is 763 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:49,000 how to manage those threats is to give ourselves some compassion. 764 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:54,360 Normalize is actually okay to take a while to get a job. 765 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,220 It's okay to feel lost. 766 00:40:56,220 --> 00:40:59,920 And if you do feel like you won't need help, seek help. 767 00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:01,960 I remember that you're running your own race. 768 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:07,000 It's not, it's easy for us to compare with other people, but they're running their race 769 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,000 and you're running yours. 770 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,720 And if you run their race, you won't get to where you want to be. 771 00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:12,720 Yes. 772 00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:20,120 I love how we've now secretly joining the analogy team. 773 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,720 Slowly converting me to the analogy team. 774 00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:24,720 Okay. 775 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:25,720 And yeah. 776 00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:29,600 And adding onto that, what you experienced as well, what I experienced, I think talking 777 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:34,880 to another person, talking to a friend really helps us in not going to that spiral. 778 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:35,880 Yeah. 779 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,640 I'm feeling a bit less lonely and relate with to each other. 780 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,000 That's what the whole podcast is. 781 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,000 Yeah, exactly. 782 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:48,080 And again, like if you have those unhelpful belief like me, self-sabotage and criticizing 783 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:53,800 myself, challenging those thoughts, talking back to yourself, fighting back, say that 784 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:54,800 is not true. 785 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,600 You are working really hard already in tiny steps. 786 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,360 What looks like tiny steps can be a big steps as well. 787 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:08,480 So challenging those thoughts, loving yourself because we all deserve to be loved. 788 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:09,640 We all do. 789 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,640 I'm just voicing it to myself. 790 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:13,640 Can you feel that? 791 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:14,640 Yes, I can. 792 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:15,640 That's why I'm laughing. 793 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,560 And talk to your friend, talk to yourself if you don't want to seek help. 794 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,240 That still works. 795 00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:22,240 Yeah. 796 00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:26,720 Obviously it's better to talk to another person because another person will provide a different 797 00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:27,720 perspective. 798 00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:34,300 And yeah, so I think this is it for today that we talk about postgraduate stress and 799 00:42:34,300 --> 00:42:38,880 you can do some self-reflection on if you want, like for example, if you're undergrad 800 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,320 or postgrad doesn't matter, if you want to continue to study further studies or find 801 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,840 a job and like what works for you. 802 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:52,080 And also what are some things that you go through when you're job seeking? 803 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,560 Is it more about the job search fatigue and how you can actually get out of that cycle 804 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:57,560 as well? 805 00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:58,560 Yeah. 806 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:03,560 And for everyone who are listening that also struggle to find a job, I'm sure there's 807 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,040 something great ahead waiting for you. 808 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:07,040 Yeah, definitely. 809 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:12,960 And also reflect on how you manage it currently and perhaps finding more effective ways. 810 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,560 So thank you, Nat, for sticking with us. 811 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:17,560 So do you. 812 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:18,560 Yep. 813 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,440 And thank you, Lesna, for sticking with us as well and listening to us talk about our 814 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:27,240 postgraduate stress and hopefully, well, I don't hope you resonate with it, but if you 815 00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:30,320 do, you can resonate with it. 816 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:31,320 Yeah, true. 817 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:32,320 That is true. 818 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,880 Stress could be a good thing as well. 819 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:39,960 And we will release a new episode every Wednesday at 4 a.m. AESD time. 820 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,960 And in the meantime, if you want to check us out, our Instagram handle is the Y in your 821 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,280 twenties podcast and we'll see you next Wednesday. 822 00:43:47,280 --> 00:44:09,020 Bye Buh-bye.