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Welcome to our podcast, The Why in the 20s.

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My name is Viv and I'm Nat.

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We are two counselors in our mid-20s navigating our adulthood away from our home country,

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exploring the why questions we encounter relating to relationships, identities and uncertainties.

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So whether you're listening to our podcast while going for your walk or doing the chores,

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welcome on board and let the journey begin.

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Welcome back to another episode of The Why in your 20s.

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So Nat, how are you doing today?

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I'm actually feeling great.

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Yeah?

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And it means a whole... I know we record this episode way in advance,

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but for those that listened to our previous episode,

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it means a world to us that you stick with us and welcome back.

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Yeah, definitely.

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Yeah.

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I very appreciate the people who continue to listen to us,

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just ramble about different topics and just coming along this journey with us.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I think I do feel we have things to improve quality-wise

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and in any other areas that there's room for improvement.

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But yeah, I'm pretty sure towards the end of the year when we look back,

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we will see how far we have gone and...

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Yeah, for sure.

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Yeah.

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I came in with the idea that I'm ready to make mistakes.

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Yeah.

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I'm not saying I hope nothing bad happens,

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but it's more like we will make mistakes and what we learn from it.

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So I'm excited to see how we go towards the end of the year, actually.

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I'm very excited as well.

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But another thing...

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So we do talk about deaths in this episode.

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And I know it can be distressing for a lot of people.

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So if any of the listeners do need resources or support or any other concerns,

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they can go to beyondblue.org.

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Or also there are 24 free counselling in Australia,

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and the number for Lifeline is 131114.

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And please do look after yourself because this is a distressing topic.

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And if you do want to avoid this content, please do skip today's episode.

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And that's completely fine.

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I think only listen when you're truly ready for it.

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Yeah.

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And have the mental capacity to actually go through today's content as well.

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And because it is a very distressing topic, we often do kind of avoid talking about death.

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Do you feel that way?

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I think I used to.

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It's something I feel like is so far away.

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I'm just in my teenage years or like 20s.

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It's something that I would assume is when you reach 60, 70, which is truly not the case.

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Yeah.

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But yeah, I do think I try to avoid it.

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What about you?

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I don't think I've ever actively avoided,

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but I think it's just in our culture or maybe even in my house at home where we're brought up.

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We don't talk about death because it could be scary.

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And it's just something that we tend to avoid because there's a lot of uncertainty towards it.

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There's just a lot of sadness.

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And my family don't really openly talk about it.

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And it's when perhaps someone in our family, like a relative who passed away,

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then we might talk about it a bit, but we just kind of tend to avoid as well.

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Yeah.

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Do you recognize our culture that plays an important part of it?

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I think so.

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I think definitely plays a part.

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I'm not sure if it's like the entire thing, but it could be.

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I do agree on the uncertainty part.

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It's like the fear of not knowing where I'll go after death.

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And I think that makes the whole, like the uncertainty makes the whole death idea really scary to people.

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And I think the past two years has changed my perspective as well.

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I feel like it's very important for us to have that death talk early than we expect.

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And the more conversation you have,

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I feel like it clears up all my uncertainty or it just gives me some answers in it,

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no matter what you believe in or not.

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So I do, I would say I do avoid it because of, you know, I feel like it's ages away.

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And always because the uncertainty that makes it scary.

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But the past two years has changed.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I think I do avoid it only when I talk to family, like parents and older relatives.

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But other than that, like with my friends or with everyone else,

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I don't avoid the topic.

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Even it was back in high school up until now.

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I think we just openly talk about it.

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What do you talk about?

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It's just like, like how you want to die or when do you think it's an appropriate age?

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Or like even talking about funeral.

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I think that's something that we talk about openly.

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I don't recall I have talked with my friends around death.

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But I do agree for some people it's not, you know, we make all the trigger warning thing.

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It might be scary for some people, but for others can be a very beautiful thing.

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It can be something that's not scary and very open to discuss.

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Yeah.

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So yeah, if you, why do you think it's important to talk about death?

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I think at a young age, kids do get curious about it.

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But at the same time, I feel like a lot of parents just lie about it.

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Oh, they went to somewhere very far.

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And then like, oh, they're like, it's not a right lie, I would say.

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Perhaps it's not from a bad intention.

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Yeah.

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At least it's not from a bad intention.

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But at the same time, I feel like it's not truthful.

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It's not like just saying, all right, okay, they passed away or they died kind of thing.

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And I think it just raises even more questions for the kids.

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So why not just, all right, talk about it, discuss about it openly and just having that

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safe space for them to talk about it because honestly, just in their head.

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And if you're able to kind of talk about it, then you know, okay,

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this is what they're thinking.

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This is what other people are thinking.

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Maybe it'll add some perspective of things.

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So I do think it's important to talk about death and not shy away from it.

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Yeah, I agree.

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It's something that clears up the uncertainty.

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And I think as you mentioned and I mentioned as well, that the more you talk about it,

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you either get more answers from it around death or more understanding about that.

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And it's less scary.

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You know, like when you're watching, when I watch scary movie, I always close my eyes

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because I'm so scared.

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But actually it's more scary than you actually watch it because you're just imagining in your

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head what happened.

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Things that you imagine can be even scarier than what is it on the screen.

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So I think that is a way to describe how important it is to talk about death and have that

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genuine conversation with either with your friends or family or with yourself, I think.

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Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree.

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Like even having that conversation with yourself and knowing how you feel death.

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I think that's very important.

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Knowing your own perspective and not shy away from that as well because you never know when

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it'll hit you.

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Yeah.

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And I just think thinking it through, it will help.

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And it's earlier than you thought.

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Yeah, I think even back then, I think we do kind of try to make light of the conversation

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about death.

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I mean, I don't think that was the purpose of it, but I think that's how we cope with

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it as teenagers or kids.

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That's how I cope to work with my friends.

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Yeah, and I think one important point to stress on is it will change.

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Your view of death will change from time to time.

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The way I see death when I was a teenager compared to now is completely different.

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And I know someone that already started a family or have kids, their view of death have

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added an extra layer of it because they might have kids or like their loved one that is

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not only themselves, but it's more people that included in that consideration.

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So one thing to be mindful is it's not just one conversation and it stays till the end

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of your life, but it changed from time to time as well.

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So having that conversation with different people really helps broaden that perspective.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I think it could change.

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I think over time it could change for some people, but at the same time, I've never

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found death to be scary.

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I always look forward to death and I'm just going to put out that I'm a Christian.

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So then I think that was a very, it brings me peace.

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And I don't think it's like that for a lot of people.

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Yeah, I think the religious aspect adds a lot on our view of death as well on maybe you

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have like the hope of afterlife, would you say so?

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That the religious part plays an important role in it.

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The very place, I think not only, I think it's just the central of it.

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It's not only the importance, it's just the whole thing.

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Seeing how death is, my perspective is completely based on the Bible.

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Yeah.

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I think one thing I do struggle is the idea of afterlife and I do not believe it.

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I think that's no afterlife and I feel like, and I believe is when I pass away, that's

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the end.

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And I think what makes it different from your view, I think there's a lot of hope around

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the heaven and afterlife for you.

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And for me, the hope is in my current life, if that makes sense.

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I think it's the beauty of uncertainty.

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I know it's scary for some people and it's scary for me as well, but it's the beauty

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of uncertainty and I don't know if it's hope, but the hope that no one in the world

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have the same life as me and that you cannot replay it.

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It's not like when you're watching a Netflix show and then, I don't know, when it's the

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end for you, that might be season two, that's the afterlife.

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And that's no repeat, like you cannot replay the episode because life is, you cannot redo

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it for the second time.

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And for me, what makes it beautiful and I'm very hopeful on my life is things change

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and it's different, like you're different from everyone is different.

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Everyone's lives is different.

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You guys live differently, have your own challenges, have your own struggles, have your own happiness

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moments, achievements and everything.

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And I think that's the beauty of life and that's why I'm so hopeful that I put my hope

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in my current life.

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And I think for other artists, for say the religious belief that they have the hope after

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life.

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So I think different view of death, no matter if you are religious or not, that plays an

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important part in the discussion of death as well.

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Yeah, I think for personally for me, it's, oh, it's this it kind of thing.

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So that's why I have hope for like what you said, another analogy, season two of it.

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Yeah, because-

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And the rest of the whole series and I think for me, like this current life, it's just

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like 10 minutes of the whole thing.

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But then after life, it's like everything else.

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So it's a very small part of my life at the moment.

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Your view on it is more about your entire life.

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It's a limited series.

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Yeah, it's like maybe like a six episode thing.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Or if you live a longer life, it could be longer.

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I'm just saying.

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I know what you mean.

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Yeah.

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It's interesting.

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You think your life is just the first 10 minutes for me is a limited series.

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Mine is unlimited.

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Yours limited.

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I think that's the difference of it.

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Yeah.

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And I think the reason why I say it out is a lot of people would ask what's the purpose

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of living if you know you're going to die anyway, and that's the end.

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If someone have asked me this question before, and I disagree because that's a lot of beauty

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in my current life.

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Then no matter that's episode two, episode three, after I die, it doesn't matter because

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I'm just living in the present and just enjoying how colorful my life is.

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Basically living in the moment.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's interesting.

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There's no right or wrong.

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It's just interesting to have those conversations with your friends.

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Yeah.

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And I think we have to chat before.

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I just feel so fascinated by the hope that you hold on afterlife.

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Yeah, I think that's completely different from what I feel about death as well.

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Yeah.

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And I think it's good.

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I think it's good to have different perspective that we can talk about it and just have just

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listening to other people and see how maybe why you believe the way you believe and broaden

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that perspective of knowing how other people feel death is.

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It could be very different.

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But at the same time, there are other people who might feel the same way as you.

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And actually pulling back a bit back to when we were younger.

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Do you remember your first time of going to a funeral?

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I do.

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I think it's around 12 years old.

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Okay, so that makes, is that in primary?

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Grade six, around grade six.

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Yeah, around grade six or like secondary one, two.

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Yeah, I don't really remember it, but around those age I did.

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It's my first time.

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What about you?

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I actually don't really remember when it was.

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I just remember it was like in my teenage years, I'm assuming.

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Yeah, I think I'm the same.

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Yeah.

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But it's hard to say.

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And I don't even remember who it was for.

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It wasn't a relative.

243
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It was, I think it was just like my parents' friends' parents.

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So it's like a bit far, but then I think we just went there to give our respects.

245
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So what is the first impression for you in a funeral?

246
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I think when you step in there, you just can feel the atmosphere.

247
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Everyone is very down, very, I guess just very quiet as well.

248
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No one's, like there's a lot of people.

249
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There were a lot of people, but it was just very quiet.

250
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Nobody was talking.

251
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Like they, even if they're talking, they're whispering.

252
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Yeah.

253
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It's like, it's like they want to kind of respect other people as well, maybe perhaps.

254
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:49,360
And is it, I know because you have a Christian background, so is it more a Christian,

255
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is it, is that how you say it, Christian funeral?

256
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Or is it more the traditional Chinese funeral that you went?

257
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Um, so a hundred percent sure it was located, like the funeral itself was located in the Chinese

258
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ones, but I think they adapted it to be a Christian, Christian funeral.

259
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But then I don't remember exactly like how it was different from the other ones.

260
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It was just less noisy, like less of the ding ding, like the, the rituals.

261
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The rituals.

262
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,280
Yeah, so it just, without the rituals, that's it.

263
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I think it wasn't like a big difference, I would say, but maybe there was a pastor,

264
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I think, and the pastor shared something and I wasn't paying attention as a kid.

265
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I didn't pay attention.

266
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How long was it?

267
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I would say less than an hour.

268
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The actual ceremony that people went in and left.

269
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I'm sure the family members, it was longer for them and they had their own thing as well.

270
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Yeah. But then for us, it was just less than an hour.

271
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That's how I remember.

272
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Was yours a Christian funeral or like the very traditional Chinese ones?

273
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It's a very traditional Chinese funeral and I don't know, I think when you're young,

274
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you don't have that much feeling towards it and it's my first time, so I just assume you just,

275
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I would say embrace it, but like you just take it as it is.

276
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It lasts for a whole week. So I go to school and then went back to the place at night.

277
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So it lasts for the whole week and a lot of new experience and as a teenagers,

278
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for me, it's more curious than scary.

279
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That's like, you know, in Chinese culture, they have that folding the paper and then burn it.

280
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Yeah. So the folding thing is mainly for them to, it's gold. Basically, when you burn it,

281
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it's gold and they can use it. It's their currency.

282
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Yeah. I find it when they buy like houses, cars, it's very fascinated to me because I've never

283
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thought of those things until then and my family would like burn house, burn cars and one thing

284
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that shocked me the most is seeing the dead body.

285
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:15,840
Yeah. No, actually I like mix up my memory because I don't think the first time I saw the dead body,

286
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:22,560
no, but you know, the body is like behind the room. But yeah, I think it's more curious than

287
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Gary and I think that relative is not immediate relative and I would say I'm not close with

288
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the person, but it's not like immediate family. So I don't feel the emotion is that intense,

289
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but a lot of factors contributing to it. It can be my age, it can be it's my first time.

290
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I would definitely say more curious than sadness in it.

291
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:52,320
Yeah. So it wasn't relative, but it was just a very relatively distant relative.

292
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I would say so from my memory. But were you part of the whole ritual?

293
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Like, does you have to participate in the whole ceremony itself? Because since you're a relative

294
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and the traditional Chinese funerals, they do include the family members that they have to be

295
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:16,880
participating in some parts. I think partially I'm in it. Yes, I think I'm partially in it.

296
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I would, I wasn't there the whole week, but I do attend the ceremony towards the end that they have

297
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like the real the whole ritual of bringing body out of the building and burning it, cremating it,

298
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cremating it and bring it to the site. I don't think I took part on towards the end,

299
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but the ritual of doing it in the middle of the week, I do have experience. Actually,

300
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,360
I'm not sure now. I feel like it makes up the first and second one, but yeah,

301
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:55,600
I think that's what I remember. Actually, I think I do mix up the funerals together,

302
00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:01,440
especially if it's two relatives, like my grandma and my granddad. Their ceremony is very similar.

303
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:10,080
It's like the Chinese traditional one. And I think even though it's like a very similar

304
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:15,200
distant, but it still felt very different because of your connection with them prior to their death.

305
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,360
And maybe we can talk about like, what do you think they were thinking about before they passed away,

306
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:24,560
the moment they passed away, whether it's relatives or like the people that passed away?

307
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:33,120
I actually don't know. I feel like they would be in pain or uncomfortable because one of my

308
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:40,320
relatives, when they passed away, they already been in the hospital for quite a while and I will

309
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assume it's in pain, if not uncomfortable at some point. So yeah, and I think they are quite old.

310
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So they will have, I will assume that they will have probably think about it before.

311
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But again, it's not a conversation that I would have even with my family.

312
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:06,720
So it's more about they'll be focusing on their pain and uncomfortableness because of, I guess,

313
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being old, there are some uncomfortableness or just these different things in the bodies that's not

314
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:19,680
working very well. And I would assume they don't want to burden their kids as well because the

315
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:24,880
kids are coming in looking after them from time to time. I would assume, I don't know, I don't know

316
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:31,200
if I would think that when I get old, what do you think your last moment of death would be?

317
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:37,440
I think, I don't, honestly, it's a very hard question to imagine because it really depends on how you die, right?

318
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Perhaps if you're, if it's a very quick death, I'm assuming I wouldn't have a lot of time to think

319
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about anything at all. Just like when I see movies or whatnot, like their whole life flashes before you.

320
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:58,240
Yeah, what about we can do a fun exercise with the audience now?

321
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:05,920
Is it one of the exercises you've done with your clients?

322
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:15,040
No, I've done it to myself. With yourself? Yeah, with myself. So the exercise is when you close your eyes,

323
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:20,400
the first few things that pop up on your mind that you want to do it before you die.

324
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:26,240
Okay. So maybe the audience can, of course, in a safe way, if you're like driving, please don't

325
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:34,960
close your eyes. I mean, you actually experience it. Yeah, you actually experience death, so we don't

326
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:41,680
encourage you to do so. If you're in a safe environment, if you close your eyes and think of

327
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,920
three things that you want to do before you die, what would that be?

328
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:53,840
And you can pause the podcast if you need more time to think. Okay, so I think for me, nothing popped out.

329
00:21:53,840 --> 00:22:01,840
I don't think I have like one thing I actually that I have to achieve that or I really, really want to achieve before dying.

330
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:08,160
Or is this something that you want to say to someone or to the world? I guess like

331
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:16,320
telling people I care about, I love them for the last time, but it's not something that I want to achieve in my life.

332
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:24,880
So that's one, like you want to show your love and care to people for the last time, like as usual,

333
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:32,640
that you would normally do anyway. Yeah, I think that's the main thing, but nothing else really pops out to me.

334
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:40,560
Like whether it's job or something that I really want, nothing really does pop out to me.

335
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:49,040
It's so interesting because when I do that with myself, I wouldn't say out what exactly it is,

336
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:57,120
but it's something that I want to say to a person or it's something that I want, it's something that I wish.

337
00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:04,560
How do I say it? How do I say it but like not to? Is it more about reconciling with someone?

338
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:12,240
Yes, I think from when I do the exercise with myself, something that I want to reconcile with someone

339
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:19,360
or something that I want to tell them or something that I want to do.

340
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:26,000
And I don't want to say it out loud because it's quite personal. I'm pretty sure you guys have

341
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:32,480
something in mind or like nothing, but one thing I realized is nothing about how much money that I have

342
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:42,080
or what are the jobs that I want to do, but it's more like the attitude you want to live as a person

343
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:49,200
in the world and I find it really interesting because for say for an example, you want to

344
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travel around the world and that's I would say a very common item on the bucket list, but that's

345
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not what I'm heading to. I want you guys the audience to reflect on it as well. Taking the

346
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:10,640
traveling around the world as an example, what about traveling around the world makes it special

347
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:18,560
to you? Is it because you want to travel with your loved one or with your family that you treasure

348
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:27,520
that quality of time or you want to stay curious to explore the world? So it might not be traveling

349
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:33,840
around the world that matters, but the attitude of staying curious or treasuring the quality time

350
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:39,520
with your loved one that matters and from that reflection, it can tell you or you can tell me,

351
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:45,600
I don't know if it's the same for you, it tells me how do I want to live, what kind of person I want

352
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to be and what kind of what things I want to give to people, what kind of friends, what kind of

353
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:58,240
family, daughter I want to be. If that makes sense? Yeah I think it does make sense because

354
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:03,840
it's not the event itself, it's not the thing itself, but it's more about the meaning behind it,

355
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:09,840
why you want to do that. For example, it could be like a job, it could be traveling around the world,

356
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:16,160
but why do you want to achieve that? The meaning behind it, the values that you hold. Because I

357
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:21,360
personally believe if I have a bucket list, once I finish everything there must have something new

358
00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:27,440
added in, so it's like you cannot ever finish it and you don't know how much time you have left

359
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:33,440
in this world, so being in the present and knowing how you want to live as a person in this world,

360
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:40,480
I think it's more important to me. So one side question, like now that we have done the exercise,

361
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:46,240
like for say you have something on your, not list, but something that you want to achieve or like

362
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,720
some values that you want to achieve, what's stopping you from doing it or is there anything

363
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:55,680
that's stopping you from doing it? Just a question for the listeners to think as well. Is there

364
00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:00,960
anything that's stopping you doing it from the point of you want to show your care and love to

365
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:08,000
people or you've really been doing it? Like being a caring and loving person? I think I do do it,

366
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:14,000
but there's always room for improvement, so I think that's just one thing. Like I'm still improving

367
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:21,440
and I'm on the, it's in progress I would say. So it's not something that I'm not actually doing,

368
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:28,400
I think. I'm trying to improve on it. And what you say being a loving caring person is something you

369
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:35,040
hold strongly on, on how you treat people. Oh yeah definitely, one of the things I hold dearly towards.

370
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:41,440
I think for me, I don't, I think for me that's nothing stopping me from doing it,

371
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:46,560
but of course some moments, some moment that you might not be courageous enough to do so.

372
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:53,120
And I think that's important finding out what's stopping you and breaking it down into bite size

373
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:59,360
and how to achieve it easier. And I resonate with yours as well, that I'm working towards it,

374
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:05,360
but it's also something, whatever in my mind that I can think of before I die, those points is

375
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:11,040
something that I hold strongly to and that's how I want to live as a person now and I'm working

376
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:17,520
towards it. Yeah and I think that's why it's very important to have those death talks because I

377
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:23,840
always believe that talking about death is reflects on how you want to live. I actually took a

378
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:34,080
screenshot of an analogy. It's not an analogy unfortunately, but it's a tv shows on Netflix

379
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:41,520
that I really like and I think that reflects on the process of death really beautifully. It's from

380
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:48,640
scratch. One thing that the author said is, so when we talk about and revisit our loss, it's an

381
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:55,280
invitation to think about the living, how we want to live, what we want to leave behind, the quality

382
00:27:55,280 --> 00:28:02,880
and kind of relationship that we want to have. So any conversation about death is really a disguised

383
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:09,520
conversation about living and I really resonate to it. I know I resonate to everything, but this one

384
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:16,000
is I think it describes it very beautifully and comprehensively on how I feel death as well

385
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:23,360
and not to shy away from the conversation but seeing it as a way to explore how you want to

386
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:30,160
live at the moment. Yeah and I think it's a very good way of summarizing that in the sense even

387
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:36,720
like the exercise that you mentioned earlier and also I think it's very easy to see your values

388
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:43,840
or like your kind of the kind of relationships that you have in the world before you die and

389
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:49,120
it's very evident to see that in your funeral. You can see that in your funeral, what kind of

390
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:54,240
relationships that you had, what kind of stuff that you left behind, whether it is lessons,

391
00:28:54,240 --> 00:29:01,760
it could be actual stuff, it could be anything or even yeah just anything that you actually

392
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:08,560
hold very dearly to. I think it would be very evident in your funeral or in anyone's funeral.

393
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:14,960
What kind of impact have you made in this life? Absolutely. Have you ever imagined how your funeral

394
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:23,520
looks like? I have actually. I have and I definitely do not want a traditional Chinese one where

395
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:31,440
it's just very loud, very noisy. Yeah. Just a lot of noise. It sounds annoying. It's a very annoying

396
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:38,320
very annoying so I don't want. I think like I want a very quiet. I feel like I have two sides.

397
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:44,080
I want one that's like a lot of music but at the same time I want one that's very quiet.

398
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:51,600
So maybe there are two sections towards the ceremony. One part is very quiet and the other part is just

399
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:58,640
music. So what do people do? I think I don't want an actual ceremony where people sit

400
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:06,320
and listen. But more like just have food that everyone likes or maybe the food that I like.

401
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:13,840
I don't yeah maybe just food that I like and then they just have it like or maybe it could be like

402
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:19,760
a potluck thing. Everyone can bring a food that reminds them of me. It could be something like

403
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:25,760
that. Yeah. And then everyone just gather in one place or yeah somewhere like that. Something like

404
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:32,240
that. Would you say you want to have a session that is quiet and a session that is music because

405
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:39,520
two of them represent you as well? Oh it could be. I never thought of it that way but it could be

406
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:46,960
because I think it's just the quiet time. It will just let people kind of remember a lot of

407
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:53,280
stuff that happened in the past but at the same time if there's music it's more about the celebration

408
00:30:53,280 --> 00:31:02,160
of them. Moving onwards what can they do with their lives. Just celebration of me going to heaven

409
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:07,520
kind of thing. I think it would be very cute. I don't want like a very big celebration. I want

410
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,880
just like to be in a house or like in a small apartment kind of thing. Not a lot of people.

411
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:19,520
Just the people that I'm closer with. Yeah. That kind of thing. What about you? Have you thought about it?

412
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:26,400
When we discuss this topic I have a thought about it and I'm the same with you. I don't want the

413
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:31,760
traditional Chinese, the loud. I don't want people to burn things because I hate the smoke.

414
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:39,600
Yeah I don't want people to see my body as well because I don't know it's just weird. Oh so not

415
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:45,760
like open casket. It could be a closed casket. Yeah I feel like because you don't want people to see

416
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:55,600
you when you're sleeping you know. So I'm like... I don't know. I don't want people to see me but I

417
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:04,240
do want it to have a very peaceful funeral. I want it to be and it's weird because I want it to be

418
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:10,240
similar to my wedding as well. That I want it to have a bit needy ocean and just having...

419
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:18,720
Is there a way to think that way? But I want the peaceful music going on plus it's needy ocean.

420
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:27,680
I invite only close family and friends, people that I care and just celebrate and I think I'm

421
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:34,320
the same as you that partially celebrate but also some people might need time to moan as well.

422
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:42,560
That they need time to grieve so I wouldn't expect everyone to you know laugh or smile but I think

423
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:50,480
my funeral I want it to be a celebration of my life and remembering all the happy memories that

424
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:57,040
I shared with them and just with like peaceful music you know those like piano relaxations

425
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:07,040
on Spotify, Lazy Sunday, that kind of playlist and just needy ocean have those sounds of the wave and

426
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:13,520
watch the sunset together. I think just everything that I like it will be really nice so it's weird

427
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,640
but I think it's just similar to how I want to have my wedding as well.

428
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:25,040
That's very interesting because I think perhaps both of them is just kind of a celebration and

429
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,640
it's just somewhere where you want to be for example just people gathering or people that

430
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:36,480
you care about gathering together just doing the things that you love watching the sunset

431
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:44,560
listening to music yeah comfortable music yeah peaceful peaceful music piano relaxations

432
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:51,280
peaceful peaceful music piano no lyrics that kind of music yeah yeah that's actually really

433
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,280
very pretty yeah I think I can imagine it well you can come with me

434
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,440
yeah don't you do that who do you want to who do you want to invite to your

435
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:10,720
to your not wedding sorry to your um funeral me and some of my friends I think there's a lot of

436
00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:18,080
people willing to come they can because there must be a reason why they want to come it doesn't

437
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:25,040
matter if it's friends that I've not keep in touch with as long as they willing to come that shows

438
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:30,960
they care about me as well and again it's a celebration so I'm sure we have happy memories

439
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:36,320
together as well just to celebrate that so I would say anyone that willing to come

440
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,560
um if they don't want to come it's fine no I want to come

441
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:48,160
well I'll make sure you you'll get invited let's see let's see who goes first though

442
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:55,840
if I go first I don't think I'll be invited but what about you is it because I know you want a

443
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:04,320
smaller funeral is what kind of people you want to invite yeah I think family for sure um I think

444
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:11,600
the many friends that I feel like that have made an impact in my life whether it's positive negative

445
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:18,000
it doesn't matter but just people that have made an impact in my life and I want them I would invite

446
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,720
them like if they want to come sure if they don't it's okay but I would want to invite those people

447
00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:28,240
that have made an impact on my life whether whether it could be like teachers doesn't have to be like

448
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:33,680
friends that friends that we actually hung out together doesn't have to be that way but it could

449
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,800
just be people that have made an impact and obviously the people who I've made an impact

450
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,440
hopefully there are people like that yeah for sure that I would want them to come as well

451
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:51,040
but I think that contradicts as well like I want a small a small um funeral but at the same time I

452
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:57,280
do want people to gather and have their time of griefing maybe do an online one technology now

453
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:04,880
so it's so impersonal to do it online like if it's your wedding would you just have it online

454
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,760
no exactly yeah and I do it feel deeply for people that have their funeral during covid

455
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:17,360
I can imagine how hard it is for the family member to not be able to finish that grieving process

456
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:23,200
because of that but we can talk in the next few episodes about more about grieving yeah but

457
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:29,920
yeah I do feel for them that they don't actually have that space and time to release their emotions

458
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:38,640
yeah but also beside the funeral sometimes people have tombstones after you die um they cremate you

459
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,800
and or some people some countries they don't cremate you I think they just have the whole

460
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:49,600
casket and um and they go whole that bury underground yeah bury underground and then they

461
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:56,800
have a tombstone yeah so any tombstones there are usually some words or like something there

462
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:03,280
yeah so I think we get to choose if we if they know if the people know what we want on the

463
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:08,320
tombstone then they can put it put it there yeah what about you like do you have anything

464
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:15,840
that you want on your tombstone I don't want my face to be on it I think it'd be so creepy

465
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:23,200
that's a very Chinese thing that we have we have our pictures the big like just our portrait yeah

466
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:29,760
no I don't like that um I think it'll be so beautiful if you know it's like a bio like a

467
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:35,760
short description of who I am like what kind of person I am and it's just I don't and what kind

468
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:41,760
of person I am I think it'll be really cool and you can walk past others as well and see what their

469
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:48,320
values are or like what how they feel the world yeah I think it would be so nice what about you

470
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:54,400
I haven't actually given much thought of it because I think just in Hong Kong tombstone is not really

471
00:37:54,400 --> 00:38:00,000
really a thing but when you were talking about like values and stuff like that I think because

472
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:07,440
usually on a tombstone it's very short like a few words um and I think for me personally it's just

473
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:14,000
full of joy or joyful something like that so joyful would be a word that you want to yeah

474
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:21,520
I think that's yeah joyful would be a nice word I hope I think for me it's being kind

475
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:30,800
spreading love just smile I think I think that will be I wish it would be a summary of my life

476
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:38,160
and it's also something that I wish people in the world can do as well so kind smile spreading

477
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:44,160
and spreading love that's nice I think you partially do it I think you're doing you're

478
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:51,440
doing all three things at least from what I can see I have a big smile she often say that her

479
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:59,040
smile is her whole personality which is not true which is definitely not true it's a very important

480
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:05,680
personality that you cannot take away from me it's part part of your personality yeah yeah but not

481
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:17,520
your whole person maybe my laugh as well yeah laugh I think I can tell it's your laugh from

482
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:23,040
100 meters as long as you laugh loud enough you can yeah I can distinguish your laugh from other

483
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:28,960
people's laugh I used to be very ashamed of it but I think now I just see it as part of me and no one

484
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,840
can take it away from me also very positive thing like you think the life is just it's a laugh how

485
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:39,520
can it be negative we can talk about it in the future episode that's kind of a bit sidetracked

486
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:45,760
but yeah I think I'm curious for the audience as well what are the free words that you might

487
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:51,440
want to put and I'm also curious what are the free things that you want to do before you die

488
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:57,360
you don't have to say it but I think it's as we said we really value those reflections so have a

489
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:02,560
think of it um if you want to share with people around you go for it um but yes I think that

490
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:07,600
summarized today's episode it's actually less heavy than I thought what do you think I think

491
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:16,560
it's quite chill it's chill neutral conversation it didn't really distress you that's good yeah I

492
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:23,280
think it's because we we we do like to talk about more like heavy topics and I hope we didn't make a

493
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:28,800
make light of the whole conversation about death some people might take it more seriously and

494
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:35,200
that's okay and just having that conversation with other people and if the other people respect you

495
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:41,120
that's perfect yeah I think being respectful during the conversation and when you're ready

496
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:46,640
to have those conversations it's very important as well so yeah thank you so much for sticking

497
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:53,200
around and we will see you in the next episode and in the meantime if you want to follow our updates

498
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:59,280
or because we share post and information on our instagram you can follow our instagram account

499
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:07,440
the why in your 20s podcast and you can check us out every wednesday 4am est time for a new episode

500
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:13,920
yeah again thank you so much for listening and I hope everyone will have a great week and we will

501
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:25,280
see you next wednesday bye