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Welcome to our podcast, The Why in your 20s.

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My name is Viv and I'm Nat.

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We are two counselors in our mid-20s navigating our adulthood away from our home country,

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exploring the why questions we encounter relating to relationships, identities and uncertainties.

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So whether you're listening to our podcast while going for your walk or doing your chores, anything, 

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welcome on board and let the journey begin.

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Alright, welcome back to another episode of The Why in your 20s.

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Yay!

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It's episode 2.

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I'm so glad we made it here.

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We finally made it to episode 2.

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Yeah, because episode 1, the audience probably won't know we nearly have to record the third time.

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And oh my goodness, it's just been a roller coaster journey.

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And I'm so glad that we made it to episode 2.

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And I did do some reflection after the episode 1 because we have some technical issues.

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I'm like, oh, maybe we need to buy a microphone.

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Like we need to invest one.

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And then I was like, no, but I mentioned in the podcast is we don't need all the furniture, right?

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Do you remember I talked about that analogy that I'm so proud of.

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And then I convinced myself that we don't need it.

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We can slowly build out that tools and skills.

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And if we made it to episode 20, we can invest one.

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Anyway, enough rambling for today.

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Yeah, I was so annoyed at myself, frustrated at myself when we had to record the second time.

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So when I thought we had to record the third time, I was like, oh, great, I'm not going to do this anymore.

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I'm going to give up on this podcast.

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I think I'm in denial for like a few seconds as well.

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And you know what I told you?

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I was like, we can fix this.

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It has been saved to our file and we can fix this.

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Yeah.

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I'm glad everything is fixed.

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I'm glad that we've made it through.

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Yeah.

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So what are we talking today?

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We're going to talk about friendships.

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So why is adult friendship so different and so hard compared to when we were in high school?

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I honestly feel a bit scared of doing this podcast because I'm not really good at friendship, to be honest.

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No, you're pretty good.

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And I think it is a very good chance for us to explore and to reflect on the topic of friendship.

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And I think it's so important.

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We talk a lot about, you know, romantic relationships, but friendship is also a very important part in our 20s,

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like in our life in general, and that connection is very important as well.

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So I do feel scared and uncomfortable, but as our bio said, sit with it because that's when we learn and grow.

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And I truly believe that.

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Definitely.

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So hopefully you will learn and grow throughout this podcast.

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And I hope the audience, you do so as well.

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Yeah.

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So before actually we compared the two, I think maybe we can go back to how your friendships were like in high school.

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What are your friendships like in high school?

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I think it was pretty easy to make friends because it's just a very small grade.

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Like my grade, it's only less than 30 people, my whole grade.

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So I knew everyone and we came from like our school is from primary to high school.

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So then we knew each other since primary and I went into the school when I was in grade three.

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So then I knew them for a few years already.

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So I didn't have to start fresh.

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I didn't have to start from the beginning to make new friends completely.

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So I had like a stable group of friends, that 30 people.

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So I'm more, obviously there are smaller groups within the 30 people.

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But personally, I am a floater.

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I just go from one social group to another, to another, to another kind of thing.

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Yeah.

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Because just how I am, how I was and how I am.

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Yeah.

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I love that term floater.

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Were you one?

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Oh, absolutely not.

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Then why do you like the term?

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No, it's just very cute.

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I'm opposite.

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I always stick to the same group of people.

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And I just feel like it's safe and low maintenance, if that makes sense.

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Definitely, yeah.

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I agree with you that we are in a very structured school.

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And I went to a school that have kindergarten, primary and secondary.

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Yeah.

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So I know all those people for like more than 13, 14 years.

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And our class is like around 40 people and we have six class.

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So it's around 200-ish people every year.

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Yeah, actually that's very normal in Hong Kong.

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Yeah.

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I do find it so easy because you don't need to put a lot of effort in it.

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You make friends that in same class.

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And then when I was in primary school, you make new friends every year.

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You only make friends within your class.

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I think that's what I know they would do because it's so convenient.

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And moving to high school, you basically see each other every day and even more than your parents.

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I see my friends Monday to Friday and sometimes even Saturday, Sunday,

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because we have supplementary class.

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Which is unfortunate.

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And the unfortunate part is because we have to do supplementary class,

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not because we have to see your friends.

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Maybe partially because of that as well.

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It's the same people for seven days.

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Like for every single day, it's the same people.

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And that makes it more like a family member to me because you see each other every single day.

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You don't need to text, hey, do you want to catch up because you see each other every single day.

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Do you get bored of them though?

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No.

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Really?

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Well, I think it's different the way that you hang out with your friends in high school

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and in uni is different because the thing that you talk in high school is about like,

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I talk about homework, exam, gossip, which I don't do it anymore.

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I think it's a really bad thing.

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But yes, you don't because you have lunch every single day.

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And it's like you don't get bored with your family.

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And that's what I feel with my friends.

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They are part of my family and yeah, you don't get bored of it.

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And you don't text them?

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No, because I don't need to text.

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As you said, we see each other every single day.

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The only thing we text each other is what time you arrive.

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You know, do you want to have breakfast tomorrow?

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And we don't text about what happened because if there's anything you want to talk,

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just talk in person because you will see each other in a few hours later anyway.

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That's very interesting because I think with my friends, we texted a lot and used MSN.

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I'm not that generation.

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That was such a big thing.

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It's like MSN and texting.

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So I didn't have internet on my phone.

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So I texted after school.

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Right after school, I started texting my friends.

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And then when I get home, I'll get on my computer and open my MSN.

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And then we'll talk there.

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And which is very funny because now that I look back, I don't know what we talked about

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because we don't talk about homework because we had no homework.

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We had tests and exams, yes.

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But then other than that, we didn't have much.

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And I was just wondering like what we talked about that we spent so much time in school

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already and then after school, we continue talking.

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It's just like there's nothing much that we...

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There's not a lot going in our lives that we actually have to talk 24-7 to be honest

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because we spent half of that time together already.

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Yeah.

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And our life is pretty boring.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And I find it so interesting because we're both from Hong Kong and we have so different

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experiences as well.

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And I'm sure the friends that I have in high school, they might have a different perspective

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as well because I'm a person that don't like texting, but that contributes to a factor of

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it as well.

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Oh yeah, for sure.

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I do not like texting now.

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But back then, it was...

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I think it was just a very hip thing too.

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Do people say hip now?

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No, right?

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I feel like I have generation gap with Vivian.

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No, it's not.

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No, I get what you mean.

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Yeah.

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It's a very popular thing to do to text.

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And that's what I did.

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And I think back in those age, we have less other stuff or like, how can I say this?

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We now have so many other distractions other than texting.

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And back then we don't.

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And it's like a new thing.

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Is it 10, 15 years ago?

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No, these do not count.

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So I think it's so interesting to everyone at that period of time because texting is

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so new and it's so fun to do so.

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But now it's just part of our life that we have so many other distractions.

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Yeah, I think back then it was something that we enjoyed.

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It was like a leisure.

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It's an activity.

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Now it's more like a responsibility.

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So true.

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We can have another episode about texting.

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But I think we both would agree that it's so easy to make friends and it's mainly from

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your school and you stick with that friend group.

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Although you are a floater, but still within that 30 people.

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Yeah.

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And I would say most of my friends are from school.

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There were a few like from outside of school, but mainly it's just within school and we

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just hang around.

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Yeah.

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But how do you think it's different from the friends that you make now?

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Or is there any difference, would you say?

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Absolutely.

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I think when we are preparing this podcast, we have looked into some papers and one of

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the papers, they identified four main reasons of friendship fall out or like dissolve in

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your twenties.

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And I absolutely agree with that.

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And I do have friends in high school that I don't even touch anymore.

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And I think the first point that the paper said is the physical distance because for

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say you're moving away.

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I move away to a different country.

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You can just move to a different uni.

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The physical distance is not as close as in high school anymore that you see each other

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every single day.

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You have lunch, you have dinner, you have breakfast together.

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And moving into adulthood, you have to plan ahead.

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You have to make plans for say, can I catch up with you in a week, what time?

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And you have to organize it.

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Yeah.

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And it makes it harder for me.

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I don't know if it's for you as well, that in different country, it's so much harder

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to have that connection because you cannot just say, can we catch up for lunch in what

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day because you guys are like thousand kilometers away.

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We can just do it through video call.

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And I think it's one of my struggle on maintaining my friendship in Hong Kong as well because

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of that physical distance.

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Yeah, definitely.

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I think the physical distance, cause studying in an international school, it's a lot of

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people leave Hong Kong.

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Like even I didn't stay in Hong Kong, but we go to different countries, Canada, Australia,

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UK, or just somewhere else.

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It's very hard to keep in contact because time zone is very different.

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And I will say that is a very practical thing.

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It's very hard to meet up.

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Back then wasn't a very big thing.

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Video calling wasn't a big thing.

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No.

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But we don't have the Zoom.

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I think at that time we were using Skype.

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Yes.

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But yeah, it's very hard to meet up on moving countries.

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And it's so much harder that you kind of give up.

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You try maintaining and then after a while it's so much effort.

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Yeah, I absolutely agree.

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And that's not only high school.

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And when I moved to uni, I live in college and I've met friends with international friends

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and then they either exchanged or they went back home.

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And one time we had to organize a video chat and it's like in four different time zones.

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One is in America, one is in Dubai, and then the other two is in Australia.

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But you know Australia has different time zones as well.

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So it's so hard and I absolutely agree sometimes you just want to give up and you find it's

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so hard to maintain that friendship.

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Definitely it's very hard.

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And there are like two other reasons for a friendship to dissolve in 20s.

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The second one is the emergence of new friends.

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Do you agree with that?

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Like when you get into adulthood, you met more new friends and that makes you reflect on

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the friends in high school as well.

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I think it's because we have different social circle.

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You meet a lot of people, maybe not even new friends, just people in general.

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And you will have to spend time with people in your university, same university.

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It's just, I think it's because of the physical distance.

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It's like, oh, it's very easy to continue talking to your classmates in your university

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classes, but then the new friends does take some time away from your friends in high school.

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I think that is a case for a lot of people.

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I mean, personally it wasn't because it was really hard for me to make new friends in

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university.

245
00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:15,160
I just didn't feel connected to people I met.

246
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,640
But yeah, I think it's more about, oh yeah, because I have more freedom towards that.

247
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,680
I was like, okay, not much connection.

248
00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:22,840
Okay, I give up.

249
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:24,640
But then I was feeling like that.

250
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:25,640
It's very different now.

251
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:30,560
But then back then I was like, oh, there's not much meaning to put in effort towards

252
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:35,000
because you know that, oh, these are international students.

253
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,040
You're not going to see them within two, three years.

254
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,560
After those two, three years, you're just going to say bye and you're probably not going

255
00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:44,000
to see them ever again in your life.

256
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,640
And that's how I was like, okay, I'm not going to put in that effort.

257
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,400
And what you said that thought is you learned it from your high school as well.

258
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:52,400
Oh yeah, definitely.

259
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,800
Because even back then it's like, okay, you know, these are your high school friends.

260
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,680
After that, we're not going to be in the same country.

261
00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:03,840
So I think I learned from a young age or from high school where, okay, not a lot of people

262
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,920
is going to stay in your life forever.

263
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:06,920
Yeah.

264
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:12,840
And what you said I learned late in my teenage year or like early twenties when I realized

265
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,840
that friends don't stay forever.

266
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,640
And the concept of best friend, best team.

267
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,480
You are like my friends forever, the BFF hashtag.

268
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:31,000
And I need to learn that because we have different values and even like the environment that

269
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:37,560
we're living in growing up is we'll grow apart based on the situation you're in and it's

270
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,520
okay to go different pathway.

271
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:46,040
But what's more important is do you value that friendship and is that friend matters

272
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:50,600
to you that worth putting the effort in maintaining it.

273
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,160
And I think that's how I feel it now.

274
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:58,280
But I have a period of time that I struggle because friends come and go and that's not

275
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,520
how I feel friendship when I was young.

276
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:01,520
Yeah.

277
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:06,160
I think it's similar back then I was like thinking about, oh, should I put that effort

278
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:07,160
in as well?

279
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:11,160
But then nowadays, okay, yes, they come and go, friends come and go.

280
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,600
But at the same time, as long as they're very important at that stage, like they make a

281
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:16,600
difference.

282
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:21,800
Even if it's a short time, one year, one month, one day, I think it's still make a difference

283
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,240
like whether it's for you or for the other person.

284
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,400
But yes, friendship come and go and I like nowadays I don't really think about, oh, is

285
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:29,400
it worth the effort?

286
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,640
It's more about just go for it.

287
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:32,640
Yeah.

288
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,000
You don't have to think if it's worth the effort.

289
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:40,400
It's more about okay, if they make an impact in your life, like whether it's a positive

290
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:46,160
or negative impact, it's still an impact and whether negative or positive, you still learn

291
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:47,160
from it.

292
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:48,160
You still grow from it.

293
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:49,160
Right.

294
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:53,560
So you will reflect on it and think what have you get out of that friendship, but not fixated

295
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,800
on that we grew apart and yeah, exactly.

296
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,400
Yeah, I absolutely agree.

297
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:03,320
And I do agree that having new friends and expanding that social circle give you more

298
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:09,320
freedom or like space to think of what kind of people you want to include in that circle

299
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:15,160
and that leads towards the third point, growing dislike for a friend.

300
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:19,360
And it's a very interesting point because when I discussed with Viv, like just now,

301
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:24,220
this is a very interesting phrase, but how I understand this is as we mentioned in the

302
00:16:24,220 --> 00:16:30,080
previous episode that, you know, 20s is the phase of exploration and I'm definitely not

303
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:35,760
that self-reflective as I am now compared to, you know, when I was like a teenager.

304
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,680
I probably just think, yeah, I don't click with that friend.

305
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:40,680
I'll just move on.

306
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,120
And I didn't really reflect on what exactly it is.

307
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:49,360
But now I think the older you get for me is from the experience of friendship fallout.

308
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:54,540
And unfortunately, I have quite a few friends that I do not keep in contact anymore.

309
00:16:54,540 --> 00:17:00,240
But I think is what you said, the reflection on what exactly it is that the friend drains

310
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:01,880
you or energize you.

311
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:06,720
And I think when you think more about that, you would have more understanding of the dislike,

312
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,840
I won't say dislike of a friend.

313
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,280
It's just things that drains you.

314
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:18,720
Yeah, it's, I think it's more about you mentioned about reflecting on, okay, not dislike, maybe

315
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,120
what do you look for in a friend?

316
00:17:22,120 --> 00:17:24,920
What characteristics you think it's important?

317
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:25,920
What your values are?

318
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,400
Do they line up with each other?

319
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:33,640
And I think for me, it's a bit different, I would say.

320
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,680
I think when I was in high school, there were a lot of stuff or things I see in other people

321
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,560
like, oh, I, this person did this, this person did that.

322
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,720
But now it's, it's more about, I don't think about this.

323
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,120
It's maybe I've overlooked this, like, okay, this is fine.

324
00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:54,800
Like, it doesn't really matter that much because it's just a very small thing.

325
00:17:54,800 --> 00:18:00,160
Even if our values don't align, any two people, if you put them in a room and they have the

326
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:05,280
mindset of, oh, I want to be this person's friend, it will work out.

327
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,320
As long as two people think that I want to be friends with the other person, I think

328
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,400
it will be okay.

329
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:18,560
So it's more like everyone can be friends as long as they have good communication and

330
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,720
both have the intention of putting effort and maintaining the friendship.

331
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,680
Yeah, having that intention of maintaining the friendship, building up that friendship.

332
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:34,800
And nowadays, like, oh, there's not much of stuff that I dislike in a friend or even annoyance.

333
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,240
Like, I don't really see that.

334
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:44,040
Yeah, there are times that, oh, I get a bit annoyed or whatnot, but I try to, it's very

335
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:49,760
cheesy to say, but I think I drown them with my love.

336
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,720
It's more about channeling that love that I have for other people.

337
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,880
And it's like, okay, even if it's different, even if they're different, even if they have

338
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:05,400
different values, different personality, different thoughts, different opinions, it doesn't change

339
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,680
the fact that I value this person.

340
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,400
I love this person.

341
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:14,440
It's so interesting because it's so hard for me to think that way.

342
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:20,520
And for me is I have certain values that I hold strongly on, for say, humility is a very

343
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,320
important values that I hold.

344
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:28,520
When the other person don't show the same as well, I struggled.

345
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:34,400
And I didn't know the values I hold strongly to is humility until I think one time I was

346
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:40,520
at placement and then my supervisor is doing a values exercise with me.

347
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:45,080
And at the time during the supervision, I'm saying, oh, the client did this, this, this,

348
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,560
and I feel really uncomfortable.

349
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:53,080
And she wonder, do you have friends that act the same way that you feel uncomfortable as

350
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:54,320
well?

351
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,280
And I think that is the, oh my gosh, moment.

352
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,000
Yes, I do.

353
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,800
But I still clinging on that friend because I'm a people pleaser.

354
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,380
I want to please everyone and I want to be friends with everyone, which sometimes can

355
00:20:07,380 --> 00:20:08,380
be bad.

356
00:20:08,380 --> 00:20:13,720
But after that exercise is the awareness of the values that I have.

357
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:18,000
You know, sometimes you get annoyed with a friend, maybe, maybe not for you, but I sometimes

358
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,280
get annoyed at friend and I never say out.

359
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,280
And maybe I just simply don't know what it is that annoys me.

360
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:30,840
And I think that's the awareness is so important on knowing what exactly that is.

361
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:36,080
And then you can communicate with that friend or in the future, you can avoid people that

362
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,520
don't have that values with you, if that makes sense.

363
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:39,800
But I do agree.

364
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,000
What you said is showing your love to them.

365
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,360
And because you care about their friendship that it will make it work.

366
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:46,360
It's very funny.

367
00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:52,200
Like when you said you mentioned, for example, if a person doesn't have that humility that

368
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,160
you value, then you tend to avoid them.

369
00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:01,400
I think it's back into the balance of, is it just the humility or if there's other qualities

370
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:07,080
that that friend have that you values, then the humility thing weight less, if that makes

371
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:08,080
sense.

372
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:13,960
And I'm still learning that if you think that friend have the other qualities that you values

373
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,360
for say the humility doesn't match with mine.

374
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:20,360
And if moving forward that if things have, you have to remind yourself you're the one

375
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:25,640
that accepted and don't fixated on that certain values that that person left, but focus more

376
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,480
on the other values that person holds.

377
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,480
I think definitely the awareness of that is very important.

378
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,840
So actually during when we were talking about it, what's like thinking, I'm trying very

379
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,280
hard to find something that I'm annoyed with.

380
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:42,640
Like even previously when we were part of a conversations where we're talking about

381
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,200
pet peeves and anything like that, it was very hard for me to think of one.

382
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,240
And it's just, I'm so annoyed, frustrated with myself.

383
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:56,520
So I want to have that awareness, but it doesn't seem like I can find one.

384
00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,820
And that can be a good thing because that means you are flexible that you can have more

385
00:22:00,820 --> 00:22:04,880
capacity in accepting people around you.

386
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:05,880
It could be.

387
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,360
But the set annoys you that you don't have one or you think you just think we don't have

388
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:12,680
one or you don't know for now.

389
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,200
I think I simply don't have one.

390
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,200
Yeah.

391
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:22,240
I think I just simply don't have a pet peeve that I'm like, so it just sticks stands out.

392
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:23,240
And I do agree.

393
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:32,480
I think it's very easy to hang out with and make people around you very at ease.

394
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:38,600
I wasn't wishing for a compliment, but thank you for that.

395
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:39,600
Yeah.

396
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,040
Going back to the main reasons.

397
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,040
Yeah.

398
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,880
But I think growing the dislike for a friend, we have different opinion.

399
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:45,880
Oh, it's just this.

400
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:46,880
There is perspective.

401
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:47,880
Yeah.

402
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:48,880
This point is just interesting.

403
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:54,320
And as we said, we don't like the word dislike, but that goes to the fourth point, the interference

404
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,760
from romantic partner or relationships.

405
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:03,520
So it's like when your friends go into a relationship that will, I think that will heavily impact

406
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:09,040
the relationship that you have with that person, like that friendship, because they do, they

407
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,840
will spend a lot of time with their partner.

408
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,960
And it's just inevitable where you spend less time with your friend.

409
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:17,960
I agree.

410
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,600
I think I've experienced once as my friend get into a romantic relationship and I feel

411
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,080
like being left out that I have less time.

412
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,080
But I think it's back in the point of is that friendship matters to you.

413
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,480
And if so, then you will communicate with that friend and say, Hey, I feel left out.

414
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,960
But having that awareness of that's part of the life.

415
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,480
People have different stages and people might have different energy at different stage for

416
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,920
say, not about in a relationship, but when they start a family, they need more time to

417
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,680
spend with the family and looking after their kids.

418
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:50,880
And it's just normal.

419
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,680
It's just part of the life.

420
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:57,160
And even so, like we see each other very often, but I do have friends that we only see each

421
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:03,080
other every two months and we really just schedule a time and you know, I can't do next

422
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:04,080
week.

423
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:05,320
Can we do the week after?

424
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,320
And I think just, just part of it.

425
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:13,120
Yeah, the first interference, not just from relationship, it's more about just adopting

426
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:18,720
with jobs or even other, not romantic relationships, but other friendships.

427
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:25,680
Like they have other friends too, like whether it's from their own classes, uni or their

428
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:31,880
job or anything else, like there are different circle, but then it does take time from it.

429
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,320
And I think it's just, yeah, it's just part of life.

430
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,880
And you just realize, okay, like you're not the only person in their life.

431
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:39,880
Yeah.

432
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:45,800
And that's okay because if you were, that would mean they're very dependent on you.

433
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,080
So dependent that they only have you in their life.

434
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,240
That becomes very toxic, I would say.

435
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:53,240
Yeah.

436
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:54,240
Yeah.

437
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,800
So it's actually very healthy that, okay, you guys are not only relying on each other.

438
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:03,400
You guys have different people that you can rely on on different things, which I think

439
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:04,400
it's, it's good.

440
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:05,400
Yeah.

441
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:06,400
It's very healthy.

442
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,480
And having that flexibility on you're not only fixated on one friend, but you have other

443
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,520
friends, you have other relationships as well.

444
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:15,520
Yeah.

445
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:16,520
Yeah.

446
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,920
And I mean, it's okay if you have a few friends or if you have no friends and, and it's, you're

447
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,040
more comfortable with just having that time with yourself.

448
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,240
And I think that's, that's also okay.

449
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:31,160
Like you don't have to have one friend or a few friends that you're very close with,

450
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:36,240
as long as you're comfortable, as long as you're okay with the amount of friends that

451
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:37,240
you're having.

452
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:38,840
And I absolutely agree with that.

453
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,760
I think that's the relationship as well.

454
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:42,760
Relationship with yourself.

455
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:50,080
Because as we said in the previous episode, the 20s is an era of self-focused exploration

456
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,320
and you do need more time with yourself as well.

457
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,040
I don't know for you, but I'm those people that if I hang out on Saturday, I need two

458
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,200
days recover.

459
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,640
I can't have plans that go out every single day.

460
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:04,640
Consecutively.

461
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,040
Consecutively, that's the word.

462
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,040
I need day off.

463
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,040
I need recovery time.

464
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:10,680
And it's not simply because they're busy.

465
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,840
They might just need time with themselves and that's okay.

466
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:14,840
Yeah.

467
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:21,160
That's just an introvert and extrovert thing where you gain more energy when you're alone

468
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:26,120
and that allows you to have enough energy to enjoy the time that you have with other

469
00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:27,120
people as well.

470
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:28,120
And that's okay.

471
00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:32,200
Like some people might even want longer time by themselves.

472
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,160
Maybe they just need one social gathering per month.

473
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,160
It could be like that.

474
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:44,240
It depends on their personality and how they enjoy the time that they have with themselves

475
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,240
and other people.

476
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,240
Yeah, absolutely.

477
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:48,240
I agree.

478
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,240
Yeah.

479
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,080
And just, I think these four main reasons were point out by Susanna Rose.

480
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,360
Are there any other reasons that you can think of at the moment?

481
00:26:57,360 --> 00:27:01,880
I think that four points summarize it really well.

482
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:07,960
And I think the common theme of all these four is yes, it's the main reason of friendship

483
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,560
to solve, but how do we manage it?

484
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:16,560
Is there a way that instead of letting it fall out, is there any way that we can solve

485
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:17,560
it?

486
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:18,560
Yeah.

487
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:23,640
I think it really does tie back to our conflict resolution styles that we have.

488
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:29,280
Maybe we can talk about some of the conflicts that we have had with our friends.

489
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:30,280
Yeah.

490
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:31,280
Oh, I have a lot.

491
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:32,280
Okay, I have none actually.

492
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,280
Really?

493
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,280
I feel like I have none, but you can start.

494
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:41,440
I think it's unfortunate that I have that many past experience on conflict, but I think

495
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,520
it's also fortunate at the same time because I learned a lot from it.

496
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,680
My conflict resolution style is I'm the avoidant type.

497
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,760
Growing up, how I deal with conflict with my family or my friends is the Cold War.

498
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:58,640
I don't know if they have a term in English, but what that means is you avoid it and hope

499
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,520
that things will be fine in the future and then you will slowly re-engage back into that

500
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:04,520
relationship.

501
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,760
That's how I normally do when I argue with my sister as well.

502
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,840
Now when we have an argument, we don't talk to each other for a whole month.

503
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,120
And to that point, you forget what you're angry about.

504
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:20,720
And then it's just those small conversations for say, oh, what do you want for dinner?

505
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,200
And that breaks that Cold War.

506
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,560
Then you just pretend nothing happened.

507
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:30,440
And it's so safe and so comfortable that I don't need to do anything, don't have to think

508
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,440
anything, don't have to confront.

509
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:33,440
Amazing.

510
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:34,440
I love it.

511
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,680
And I realized there's a very toxic way.

512
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,880
So we're not encouraging people to avoid it.

513
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:41,880
Absolutely not.

514
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,320
And pretending nothing is wrong.

515
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:44,320
Absolutely not.

516
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,800
And I learned the hard way and that's just me.

517
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:51,720
And how do I realize that I have this problem is I met a friend in undergrad.

518
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,840
She's the confrontation type.

519
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,200
And one time we have an argument, I was so scared because I'm the avoidant type.

520
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,600
I stay in my room for like the whole week.

521
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,200
Well, I only go out to get food and I would afford the time that she would show up at

522
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,200
the dining hall.

523
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,440
So I was like avoiding her for the whole weekend.

524
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:09,440
She gets so annoyed.

525
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:10,440
She's texting.

526
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,520
Why don't you talk to me?

527
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,960
And she's like knocking on my door and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so scared because no

528
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,400
one ever confront me like that.

529
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:24,000
And then one thing that she said that still keeps closely to my heart is she came to me

530
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,280
and she said, I want to talk with you.

531
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:31,960
I want to resolve this conflict because I value our friendship and I care about you.

532
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,760
If I don't care about you, I would just leave.

533
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:35,760
I don't care.

534
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,360
I would just walk away.

535
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:42,720
And at that moment I'm like, oh, and I reflect on all the friendship that I have previously

536
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,280
and I have friends that I use this way and then we pretend nothing happened and we still

537
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:48,960
become friends.

538
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,680
And I have other friends that I don't keep contact anymore because just the way that

539
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:58,800
I manage conflict is so immature that leads to that friendship fall out.

540
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,400
I really agree with one of the research that they said is the conflict resolution styles

541
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,760
with your parents is pretty in friendship conflict as well.

542
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:12,240
I absolutely agree because my conflict resolution style in my teenage or like earlier childhood

543
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:17,720
with my family is the exact same thing as when I was with my friends and just having

544
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:22,600
that awareness and recovering from it and changing how I manage friendship.

545
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,520
I think I learned the hard way, but I'm glad I get there at the end.

546
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,720
Yeah, definitely the avoidant work with your sister.

547
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,800
It works with your parents.

548
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,280
That's how it improves.

549
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:37,680
Oh, it works.

550
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:38,680
It worked effectively.

551
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,400
That's how you channel that towards with your friends as well.

552
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,800
That worked previously, so it will work with the friends that you have.

553
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,480
And I think it worked very well with your parents and with your sisters because they

554
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,760
were the avoidant type as well.

555
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,320
So then it matches, but then with your friend that who was more confronting, then it doesn't

556
00:30:58,320 --> 00:30:59,320
work.

557
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:00,320
Absolutely.

558
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:05,360
I think it doesn't work and also you realize, oh, there are other people who doesn't avoid

559
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:06,360
it.

560
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:12,920
Then how do you approach it and like for her, like she will tell you her side because she's

561
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:13,920
more upfront about it.

562
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:14,920
And that's how you hear it.

563
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:21,520
And I agree because when we are in our twenties, as we said, we met more people and we got

564
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:26,720
different perspective as well for say my friend give me a new insight on how to manage conflict.

565
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,040
And I saw recently saw an analogy.

566
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,720
I think I need an analogy for every episode.

567
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,320
Maybe we can do one with our next time.

568
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:36,320
No, I love it.

569
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,080
Don't stop me from doing it.

570
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,080
You can do it.

571
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,080
I can do it.

572
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,080
I'll get it out.

573
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:44,080
I know.

574
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,800
I saw this analogy and I reframed it a little bit.

575
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,880
What it said is imagine that you are skiing, right?

576
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,280
And I've never skied before, but I can visualize it when you ski.

577
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,280
That's like a certain path that left from the previous people that go down from the

578
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,280
hill.

579
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:02,280
Right.

580
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,560
And it's so obvious and it's so easy that you follow the same path, even though you

581
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:11,080
don't know where it leads to, whether it leads you to fall down the hill or cliff or it leads

582
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,640
you back to the finish line.

583
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:17,360
And it's so easy that we follow the path because that's what our instinct will do.

584
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,080
But what if it leads you to the cliff, right?

585
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:26,480
And you really need to try hard to make a new route for yourself and don't follow those

586
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,360
pathway that left from previous.

587
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:34,440
I think the way that we learn for say the conflict resolution style that we have with

588
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:40,480
our parents is so wired in our brain that we go on the autopilot mode on that's how

589
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:41,480
I do it.

590
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:46,600
And as you said, I find it works for like years and I would assume this is a healthy

591
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,560
coping skills, but maybe it's not.

592
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,720
I think in the twenties, I have a lot of those moments that I realized my previous coping

593
00:32:53,720 --> 00:33:00,400
skills or like management style is not healthy and making an effort in making that real route

594
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:07,200
for healthier coping skills or like a conflict resolution style is so important.

595
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:12,480
And I will say I'm similar to you that I avoid often when conflict happens, but at

596
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:18,960
the same time when conflict happens within my family, whether it's between my parents,

597
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:24,720
between my sister and my dad or my sister and my mom, I'm usually the one who mediates

598
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,800
between the two.

599
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:32,080
So I don't avoid it, but more like finding the middle ground for them.

600
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,600
So you're the middle man.

601
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:34,600
Yeah.

602
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:40,360
And I think throughout my entire life, that's how I resolve conflicts.

603
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,960
It's more about finding them that middle ground that everyone can agree on and just,

604
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,280
yeah, just agree on.

605
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:54,360
And that's true, you know, within my high school friends when they're, you know, there's

606
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,480
a lot of drama in high school.

607
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:57,480
A lot.

608
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,840
I wasn't part of it, but let's say there are two main parties, but then I'll usually be

609
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:08,480
the middle person and just try to mediate between them and help them communicate better,

610
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:09,480
I guess.

611
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,840
And do you feel good of being a middle man?

612
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,480
I think within my family, yes, because it does help.

613
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,880
But then within high school friends, it really didn't help that much because they don't want

614
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:22,880
to resolve it.

615
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,640
I don't think they have that intention of resolving it.

616
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,760
So no matter how much you mediate between the two, it doesn't work.

617
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:37,200
But I think that, yes, definitely partially I do feel good if effective that I can mediate

618
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,160
between the two parties.

619
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:44,640
I think that's partially why I chose the path of counseling.

620
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,200
It's more about, okay, I can help resolve an issue.

621
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,560
But actually going into counseling at rest, it's not really, I don't resolve it.

622
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,400
Like oopsie, the wrong route.

623
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:57,400
No, but it's interesting.

624
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:02,480
I think it's a different way of helping them resolve it themselves.

625
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:03,480
I'm interesting.

626
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:04,480
You're interesting, yeah.

627
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:05,480
You're very interesting.

628
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:06,480
I do agree.

629
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:13,040
No, I'm interested in what you said is you find it works with your family, but not with

630
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,320
your friends, but you still hold on being the middle person.

631
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:24,400
I think the middle person is very, I would say it's a peacemaker and value the harmony,

632
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,520
the peace between people in general.

633
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,520
I have that value of that.

634
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:31,520
Even though it doesn't work.

635
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:37,960
I would say that obviously there are times it doesn't work as effective as I think.

636
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:44,120
Maybe now that they look back or maybe they do see maybe it did work, but at that time

637
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:49,400
it wasn't for me, I want to say it worked completely well.

638
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:56,560
But then I think it does move out some of the edges, but not like a hundred percent.

639
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:02,160
I'm curious when you're seeing the two different parties in high school, are they both confronting

640
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,880
or are they both avoidant or they are different?

641
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,840
I think mainly confronting.

642
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:14,800
I think it's just asking people to choose sides.

643
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:20,360
I think it's often times I would realize that there's no right and wrong.

644
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:25,080
It's just different perspective, different views.

645
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:30,400
I mean, yes, there are times where I feel like, okay, this is right, that is wrong.

646
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:37,400
But more than not, most of the things in life, I would say there isn't a very definite answer.

647
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,640
I think it goes back to, actually I link it to a philosophy question, it's more like is

648
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,120
there a definite truth?

649
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:46,960
But I mean, that's another thing.

650
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,920
And definitely I agree, there is a definite truth, but there are a lot of things, it's

651
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,760
more about preferences, it's more about perspectives.

652
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,600
There's no right and wrong.

653
00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:02,120
I wish we were friends when we're in high school.

654
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:07,560
And now I reflect that I sometimes will be the middleman between my friends.

655
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,560
I would say the two parties are both avoidant.

656
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,360
I think that's why I asked, is it avoidant or confronting?

657
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:19,440
From a middleman perspective, I struggle a lot because they both don't want to communicate.

658
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,080
And I'm like, oh, it's getting nowhere.

659
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,840
I got frustrated and then I give up.

660
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:25,840
Like I got annoyed.

661
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,720
And it's so interesting from seeing your perspective as well.

662
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:35,160
And I absolutely agree, a lot of conflict starts from the lack of communication, the

663
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:41,600
lack of understanding the perspective and the order I get at least, I really see the

664
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,720
importance of communication and that minimizes the conflict as well.

665
00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:47,720
Yeah.

666
00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:48,720
Yeah.

667
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:54,520
And I think when I was thinking of like, when you asked me, is it more confronting or more

668
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:55,520
avoidance?

669
00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:01,680
I was thinking that specific scenario, it was confronting, but there are times, obviously,

670
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,440
I think a lot of us do avoid it, tend to avoid it.

671
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:09,800
I think coming from like an Asian background, I think that's how we grow up towards is more

672
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:11,120
about avoidance.

673
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:16,680
But at the same time, even I think even if it's avoidance, there is a useful peacemaker

674
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:21,560
maintaining that harmony between the two or even more parties.

675
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:22,560
Yeah.

676
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,640
I think every person plays a different role in a friendship as well.

677
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:28,760
For sure.

678
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:33,760
And as we said, if that friends is important or we fail with the friendship, we'll try

679
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,880
our best to resolve it.

680
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:36,880
Yeah.

681
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:37,880
But what if we can't?

682
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:38,880
Yeah.

683
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,880
And as we said, it might be one person really want to resolve it and the other person have

684
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:50,960
no intention or both parties have no intention, then how do we manage that friendship throughout?

685
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:56,760
I think a better, for me, I would say like it's how to manage a friendship ending.

686
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,200
It doesn't have to be a fallout.

687
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:04,400
I think for me, like if it's a fallout, there must be a conflict, must be an argument.

688
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:10,080
Whether if it's passive or more active, it's still a disagreement.

689
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:16,040
But I think it's, like personally, I would say like how to manage a friendship ending.

690
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,000
It's just, I think like how I feel, it's just part of life.

691
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:26,200
Like it must end at a certain point because that's how I grew up learning about friendship.

692
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,160
It's like, okay, like that's high school friends.

693
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,480
And it's like going back to what I said at the beginning of the episode is we'll go out

694
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,720
separate ways and that's just life.

695
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:39,400
So you're not accepting it?

696
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,280
Yeah, it's accepting it.

697
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,840
And I think when you say fallout, it's like disagreements.

698
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:49,160
And I don't think I have that much of disagreements with my friends.

699
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:54,040
There are little spots here and there, but I wouldn't say like a big disagreement that

700
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,440
will lead to ending the friendship.

701
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:58,440
I do agree.

702
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:04,200
I think the older I get, there's more friendship that just slowly fade out.

703
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:09,040
As we said previously, it can be the physical distance that you guys are in different time

704
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:14,360
zone, different country, or it can just be growing with like different values that you

705
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,560
just have make new friends or whatever.

706
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:23,000
I agree that there's sometimes it's just gradually disconnect with each other.

707
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:28,320
And I do realize maybe because I'm the afforded time, it might be more interesting to get

708
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,280
a perspective from a friend that is more confident.

709
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,160
But for me, I just slowly let it die out.

710
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:40,920
Of course, there's some friends that I do wish I put more effort in resolving it, the

711
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,840
conflict or just putting more effort in maintaining that friendship.

712
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,680
But of course, it's two ways.

713
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,000
It's not one way as well.

714
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:54,640
It can be the person putting effort in it, but then at that time, I don't have that capacity

715
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,080
vice versa.

716
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:00,080
So I think I agree with what you said is part of our life.

717
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:05,280
And what's more important to me is that reflection of why this happened.

718
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:10,520
Because I think a lot, as you can tell, I will think of why I don't hang out with this

719
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:11,520
friend anymore.

720
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,760
Is it because we grew differently, we have different values, or is it because just the

721
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:16,760
distance?

722
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,760
Is it because certain things that I did?

723
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,760
And definitely it's about the balance.

724
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,480
You can't overthink as well.

725
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,760
But I think having that reflection is very important in helping me to understand in the

726
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:32,480
future and I can step in earlier if similar situation happens and I can either put more

727
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:37,760
effort in it or just having that conversation with the other friend earlier to avoid that

728
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,240
for a while.

729
00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:43,760
So after that reflection, what would you say your approach to friendship now?

730
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:44,760
I don't know.

731
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:45,760
I think I'm still learning.

732
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:46,760
Yeah, and it's okay.

733
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,760
We definitely don't have the answers and I don't have the answers.

734
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:52,760
Or like the perfect answer.

735
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,760
And there's no perfect friendship as well.

736
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:55,760
Exactly.

737
00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:01,760
But I think a few things that I learned from the past is knowing how to determine the quality

738
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,000
of closeness of a friendship.

739
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,200
How would you define that?

740
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,400
I honestly don't know, but I heard a friend, she, when I was talking to her, oh yeah, how

741
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,360
do you determine the level of friendship that you have with another person?

742
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,840
I didn't expect an answer because I didn't have one.

743
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:16,840
That's why I asked.

744
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,600
I was trying to gain, like get more perspective and then see how I determine it as well.

745
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,720
And she said, oh, it depends on how much money I'm willing to lend to that person.

746
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:28,060
What does that mean?

747
00:42:28,060 --> 00:42:33,280
So if I'm willing to lend this person $10, then okay, it's around $10.

748
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,320
Yeah, I agree with you.

749
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:41,760
It doesn't mean our friendship is only worth $10, but it's a comparison with other people.

750
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,240
Let's say I would lend another person $100.

751
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:48,880
That means that friendship means more to me than your friendship.

752
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,400
I've never think that way.

753
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:57,040
And that also, I was like, oh, that's a very interesting way of measuring a friendship.

754
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:01,400
Personally, I wouldn't come, I wouldn't measure it like that.

755
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:02,400
Yeah.

756
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,600
But there's a very interesting way of measuring it.

757
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:12,640
I think that links to, do you trust that person or how would you overcome those crisis situations

758
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,960
of one of your friends and what you're willing to help them?

759
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,480
Yeah, I think it's more about the trust.

760
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:23,040
I think for my friend is like when she said I will lend this amount of money, she would

761
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,360
just assume, okay, I'm not going to get this amount back.

762
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:26,360
And is it worth it?

763
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:27,360
Exactly.

764
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,120
If it's okay, then lend it to that person.

765
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:31,120
But I think that's how she measured it.

766
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,600
It was just an interesting thing of giving that.

767
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,680
I wouldn't measure it that way.

768
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,280
I think I want more measure of the, it's very abstract and vague.

769
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,440
It's more about the connection you have with a person.

770
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,480
And it's very hard to put it in words, but I think everyone has that connection with

771
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:48,480
someone.

772
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:53,200
Is that okay, like this person kind of gets what I'm saying, even if I don't convey it

773
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:58,080
very well, then perhaps I'm more close to this person.

774
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:03,320
Or maybe it depends on if I want to hang out with this person more or this another person

775
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:04,320
more.

776
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,560
I think it depends more about that.

777
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,800
That's how I would say, oh, this person I'm quite close with.

778
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,760
I think for me, it's very hard to think one.

779
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:20,080
And I think I'm still learning or exploring at this moment because I'm a people pleaser.

780
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,760
So I want to be close friend with everyone.

781
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,720
Or I'm not friends with them.

782
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:28,920
And I think I used to have no in between.

783
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,400
So I don't really need to measure the quality or the closeness of a friendship.

784
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,840
But I think now I'm exploring.

785
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:42,360
And one thing that I agree what you said is very abstract for me as well is if I'm in

786
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:46,640
a group setting and if that person is there, it makes it easier.

787
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:51,040
I wish that person is there as well.

788
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:56,840
That when I hang out with that person, it doesn't drain me and I don't go home and think of

789
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,280
did I say something wrong or oh my goodness, it's so tired.

790
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:01,280
Hang out with that friend.

791
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,480
Or is it you feel good after meeting that friend?

792
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,680
I think that's two ways that I measure it now.

793
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:12,680
But I would be interested to hear more on how others measure their friendship as well.

794
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:17,920
Would you say because you're very introverted and earlier you mentioned that you won't put

795
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,280
consecutive days where you meet up with other people.

796
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:25,600
Would you say if you give up that alone time, would you say you would give up that alone

797
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,160
time and spend with another person?

798
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,080
Would you say, oh, that person, hey, you're pretty close with because you're okay with

799
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:36,080
just losing that personal time that you have with yourself to recharge and you're spending

800
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:37,080
time with the other person?

801
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,600
Or would you say that is more so of your people pleasing side?

802
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,120
That is interesting.

803
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,280
No, I won't compromise my personal time.

804
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:47,280
Okay.

805
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,080
Or maybe I just, I don't know.

806
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:50,960
I've never think that way.

807
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,360
I think for now I will say having quality time with myself is still very important.

808
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,080
I genuinely enjoy it.

809
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:58,080
Yes.

810
00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:59,080
Yeah.

811
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:04,160
But at the same time, if my friend asked me out, I would give it up.

812
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:09,120
But then after that, I need extend the period of time of quality time with myself afterwards.

813
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,960
Will you give it up for all your friends?

814
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:12,960
No.

815
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:13,960
Yeah.

816
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,600
So I think my question is some of the friends that you're willing to give up, maybe you

817
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,600
do value that friendship more than other people.

818
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,840
That would be a good way to measure as well.

819
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:26,000
I think that's a lot of people, how they measure it's about that.

820
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:27,360
Especially if they're introverted.

821
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,720
Introverted, I don't think it's a thing.

822
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:31,720
But introverted, yes.

823
00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:33,040
Yeah, I agree.

824
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,000
I think that's a really good measure as well.

825
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,000
Oh, thank you.

826
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,000
Yeah, cool.

827
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,200
We kind of have some sort of idea of how we measure it.

828
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:48,400
But at the same time, honestly for me, I would say after determining that, I try to connect

829
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,640
more with the people I'm less close with.

830
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:53,640
I put in more effort.

831
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:59,200
Especially if I do realize, oh, the other person do want to spend more time with me.

832
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,120
I would put in more effort.

833
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:06,360
So I feel bad at the same time because the people that I'm more close with, I will neglect.

834
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,840
But then the people that I'm less close with, I'll put in more effort, I'll put in more

835
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,400
time and energy towards that.

836
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:14,880
I won't make you do that.

837
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,440
I think after you realize that, oh, I'm not that close, maybe I should.

838
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:24,080
That means that I think it goes back to what I said, I want to show my care and show my

839
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,320
love towards that person even more.

840
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,400
Because I've shared that with the people I'm close with already.

841
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:35,440
Then I will want to share more to the people that I'm less close with.

842
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,440
That is interesting because I'm completely opposite.

843
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:44,520
I think that's actually a really nice way to approach new friends as well.

844
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:49,240
I would never think that way.

845
00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:50,240
What would you do?

846
00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:58,360
Previously, I tried to make friends with everyone and I realized it's so draining.

847
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:04,120
And the older I get, I get busy, I have uni, I have work and I don't have that much energy

848
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,800
and time to spend with everyone.

849
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:12,240
So I choose precisely or I narrow down to certain people that I would want to invest

850
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:17,440
time in that I value the friendship and that use up my energy already.

851
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:23,880
So I sometimes struggle to expand my social circle and I'll just focus on what I have

852
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,720
now.

853
00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:29,680
So it's very interesting to hear from your perspective that you would share your love

854
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:31,240
to even more people.

855
00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:32,720
And I think that amazing.

856
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:33,720
Thank you.

857
00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:42,160
I think it's more about, I will say it, I still find it very difficult to expand my

858
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,320
social circle.

859
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:49,920
I wouldn't say I have a lot of friends, but it's how I approach new friends at the moment.

860
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:54,760
And I think it does tie back as I was going up, that's how I approach friendship as well.

861
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,000
And I think that's something I need to learn as well.

862
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:02,720
And that links to the second point that to know the expectation within that friendship,

863
00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:07,580
because I always just say, oh, I want friends that connect that I personally values those

864
00:49:07,580 --> 00:49:08,660
deep conversations.

865
00:49:08,660 --> 00:49:13,080
So I would love to have friends that have that awareness of self growth and we can talk

866
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,120
and that conversation energize me.

867
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:19,800
So I hold onto those friends that I feel comfortable talking about my feelings.

868
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,520
But you sometimes have friends that just want to hang out and have fun.

869
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,040
And for those friends, you can't just walk straight to them and say, Hey, I want to talk

870
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:28,040
about my feelings.

871
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,040
Do you do that to your other friends?

872
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:30,040
I mean, at least I've never heard you say that to me.

873
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:39,040
Like, Hey, I want to talk about my feelings.

874
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:40,040
I've never heard that.

875
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,400
No, it's just a more exaggeration way.

876
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:49,560
You know, like I can't have friends that just talk about self growth for like 10, 12 hours.

877
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:54,040
And you need some friends that just have fun and meet your other values as well.

878
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:55,440
Yeah, other needs as well.

879
00:49:55,440 --> 00:50:01,160
So I think just learning that you don't need every single friend to meet all the values

880
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:02,160
that you want.

881
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,520
You can have different group of friends.

882
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:09,080
That's how you, when you expand your social circle, then you can have different friend

883
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:10,880
group that meets your different needs.

884
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:11,880
Yeah, I agree.

885
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:13,880
I like to meet different needs.

886
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,720
Some you might want to share your feelings with.

887
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:19,840
Some you want to just have fun or even perhaps your hobbies.

888
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,800
Maybe you have different hobbies because you guys share the same hobbies.

889
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:29,080
Then you guys will talk about that hobby and maybe it will link to other parts, other needs

890
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:30,080
as well.

891
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:31,080
Yeah.

892
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:37,120
But I would say it's definitely hard to find one person that meets all of them.

893
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,680
So I think it's okay to have different friends meeting different needs.

894
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,200
And that's just how I view friendships are as well.

895
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:49,560
It's just, yeah, it's just different people who have the different expectations of friendship

896
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:50,560
as well.

897
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:51,560
They have different expectations.

898
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:56,920
So not only we have the expectation, we also have to meet their needs as well.

899
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,160
And perhaps we're not meeting some of their needs as well.

900
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,800
So then that's how different people have different friends.

901
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:03,840
Yeah, I absolutely agree.

902
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:09,000
And that links to that self-awareness, knowing what are the needs you want to have from a

903
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:10,000
friendship.

904
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,440
It's so easy to say, oh, I don't click with that friend.

905
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:16,920
I think what's more important is working on yourself and knowing the awareness of what

906
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:21,520
kind of friends that you want or just what are the pet peeves that we just mentioned.

907
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,160
Just working on yourself because you don't know what kind of friendship or what kind

908
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,880
of relationship that you want to be in until you know who you are.

909
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,520
So I think working on yourself is very important as well.

910
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:40,800
And going back to when you said knowing our values and needs and when your friends meet

911
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,640
them, actually show gratitude towards them as well.

912
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:49,240
So thanking them for actually, for example, if you want to share your feelings and just

913
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:53,920
acknowledging thank you, thanking them for allowing you to have that space to share your

914
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,960
feelings, your emotions so freely, so safely in that space.

915
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:04,040
And I think that's something I wish I'd learned earlier, showing that gratitude on thank you

916
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,840
so much for doing this for me.

917
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:12,480
Thank you for giving your space that provide that safe, trusting environment and not take

918
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,840
it for granted is very important.

919
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,720
I don't know if it's a cultural thing because I never do that back in Hong Kong.

920
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:20,360
You never say, oh, thank you.

921
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:25,320
Like, you know, it's something that I learned when I came to Australia that everyone is

922
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,840
so friendly and they say, oh, I love you.

923
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:29,840
Thank you, sweetie.

924
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,720
Thank you, love, you know, and I have friends as well.

925
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:37,720
They genuinely vocalize it and say thank you so much for doing this for me.

926
00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:42,680
And when I hear that, I feel so good that I wish I can do it to others as well.

927
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:46,000
So I think showing gratitude is something very important.

928
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,000
Even till now, I try my best to do so as well.

929
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:50,000
Yeah.

930
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:54,680
And I think that covers most of the way of how we approach friendships now based on the

931
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:59,480
reflections that we have done and our past experiences as well.

932
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:03,840
Perhaps we can do a conclusion of what we talked about today and just kind of going

933
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,480
through the main points of the stuff that we covered.

934
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:07,480
Yeah.

935
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:11,360
We've talked about the four main reasons of friendships dissolve in our 20s.

936
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,520
Again, that doesn't mean it's only in your 20s.

937
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:14,720
It can be 30s.

938
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:20,000
It happens more often in your 20s is one, the physical distance of, say, you or your

939
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,760
friend moving away to the emergence of new friends.

940
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,440
Three, growing dislike for a friend.

941
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,800
And lastly, interference from romantic partners or relationships.

942
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:35,240
And we also talk about the conflict resolution styles that we carried from our childhood

943
00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:39,480
to adulthood and whether that's healthy or unhealthy.

944
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:40,480
Yeah.

945
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:45,760
And at the conflict resolution style, we found that research from Miriam Hendoort.

946
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:50,360
And we also talk about how we manage friendship flow out or like ending a friendship.

947
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:54,720
What are our approach to friendship now based on our past experience?

948
00:53:54,720 --> 00:53:59,080
We have talked about how to measure the quality or closeness of a relationship and also knowing

949
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:03,680
the expectation, doing those active reflection on yourself.

950
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,120
And lastly, and most importantly, showing gratitude.

951
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:13,160
And as we said, the reflection is very important and perhaps it is important to for the listeners

952
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,400
to reflect on their friendships as well.

953
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,520
I think, yeah, absolutely.

954
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:24,000
I wonder, do you resonate with the reasons that we mentioned on why friendship looks

955
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,280
so different when compared to high school?

956
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:30,840
And what are your approach to friendship now based on the past experience?

957
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:35,980
You can journal about it or you can just simply sit and have a drink and reflect on it.

958
00:54:35,980 --> 00:54:37,720
And we're curious on what you think.

959
00:54:37,720 --> 00:54:38,720
Yeah.

960
00:54:38,720 --> 00:54:43,600
And you can perhaps talk to a friend about it, be someone that you trust.

961
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:48,560
And it's just a very good process of voicing it out and just perhaps even telling your

962
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:53,760
friend your expectations of how your friendship looks like as well.

963
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:57,880
And if you resonate with this podcast, you can share it with your friends as well.

964
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,280
That will be a really easy conversation opener.

965
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:01,280
Yeah.

966
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:02,280
And definitely helps us out.

967
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:03,280
Yeah.

968
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:08,400
Thank you for that, for being so vulnerable in this podcast and just sharing your thoughts

969
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,840
and also your gratitude towards me, your compliments.

970
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:12,840
Yeah.

971
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:18,160
Thank you for sticking around and we'll see you guys in the next episode.

972
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:22,600
And again, we'll release a new episode on every Wednesday at 4 a.m. AEST time.

973
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:27,040
If you want to check us out, follow our Instagram, the wineyour20s.podcast.

974
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,680
And again, thank you for listening and we'll see you next week.

975
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:30,680
Bye!

976
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,200
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977
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:36,700
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978
00:55:36,700 --> 00:55:40,620
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979
00:55:40,620 --> 00:55:48,220
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980
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981
00:55:54,820 --> 00:55:55,920
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