Welcome to our podcast, The Why in the 20s.
My name is Viv.
And I'm Nat.
We are two counselors in our mid-20s navigating our adulthood away from our home country, exploring
the why questions we encounter relating to relationships, identities, and uncertainties.
So whether you're listening to our podcast while going for your walk or doing your chores,
welcome on board and let the journey begin.
Welcome back to another episode of The Why in your 20s.
I hope everyone had a great week and are excited for our new episode.
How's your week, Viv?
It's been, it's been good.
It's been a long week.
I feel like it's been a long week.
Right?
I feel like it's forever.
It's never ending this week.
I think it makes sense for you to feel that way because you have work.
No, I think it's the other way though, isn't it?
If you have more things to do, it feels like it goes quicker.
I mean, you have work, but there's nothing at work.
Yeah, that is true.
Yeah, but it's tiring.
I think both of us, our whole body is refusing to record today.
I think it's because we know that we have to do the marathon next week.
Our body is just telling us to, you know what?
It's okay.
Don't do it.
No, we have to.
I think when this episode release, the marathon episode will be out already.
So if you haven't listened to it, check it out because we spent three, four months training
for it.
Well, I mean, to be fair, maybe two months.
Cause I think the first month we were still like, eh.
No, but that is also training part of it.
Yeah, I guess.
But overall I have a really great week.
I know it's very long, but I had a great week.
I catch up with like a friend that I haven't text or like chat in two years and it's so
nice.
I just want to check in or like catch up with her, but it's just like, you're not sure
whether the person is in a good mental state or like whatever they're going in life.
Because I think like in our twenties, a lot of people goes from very active on social
media and then suddenly they just disappear.
Oh really?
Yeah, I think it's very common at least for my friends.
And she was one of the friends that just suddenly disappeared from social media?
I think it's like slowly fade out from posting quite often to only posting on stories and
then less on stories and then just quit.
She quit posting, but she still uses?
I don't think she use anymore.
Yeah.
So it's those time that you're not sure whether there must be a for a reason why they stop
using social media and you feel like contacting them might be burdening them or something.
So I just never, I'm always not the person that I would say, hey, just checking in if
you are doing well or hey, it's been a while.
Do you want to catch up that kind of thing?
And especially we are in, I moved to Brisbane so she's a friend from Sydney.
Sometimes you just go different pathway, hey?
But I'm so glad that she reached out and then we had such a good dinner and we catch up
and it's just so nice.
Yeah.
I think she reached out because she was in town.
Yes, she is visiting Brisbane for a few days and I'm sure she saw it from my Instagram
that I moved to Brisbane now.
So it just makes me reflect.
I'm like, oh, I wonder if there's also some friends out there that waiting for me to reach
out or I can reach out.
Why?
Because you were waiting for someone to reach out to you?
I'm sure there's some people that I haven't keep in touch with and just you feel like
you guys go to different pathway and there's no point reaching out again.
But then I think after this reunion with my friend on Friday, I feel like I should be
more active in it.
And if you cares about that person, then you can reach out, especially I moved cities a
lot and once I moved city, then I feel like I just disconnect with all the people from
the previous city.
Yeah, that is very true.
Yeah.
So being a bit more active in that aspect can be beneficial, I think.
It is.
I think it is.
I really do agree that you don't know if you should reach out or not and it's hard to determine
it.
Yeah.
We have a lot of assumptions just thinking, oh, maybe they don't want to or they're going
through a lot or just a lot of assumptions in general.
Yeah.
That it prevents us from reaching out to them.
And I'm sure there's some situation when you end up meeting and then you realize, oh, you
guys already gone different pathway, then it's fine.
It's just like a closure or the worst of what can happen might be a no response or a no.
Yeah.
It's just, at least for me in my head overthinking and that stopped me from reaching out to people
as well.
But anyway, if other listeners also have some friends that they wanting to reach out, but
then also unsure whether they should give it a go.
I think it's always, I think 90, 95% it will be a good experience.
Yeah.
I think even if you don't actually reconnect with them, like be best friends or like be
really close friends, it's still a good experience.
Yeah.
You can still learn a lot from the other person.
Yeah.
You can grow as a friend.
That actually connects to what we're going to talk about today.
It's that we actually feel like a burden in asking for other people's help.
I think we both really resonate with it.
And I think a lot of other people do as well.
Or maybe it's just the things that I see, I searched for on Google.
Cause like a lot of suggested articles, it's like, Oh, why do I feel like a burden asking
for help?
Like as you've seen those articles, there are articles out there like this because a
lot of other people do feel like a burden.
They don't want to ask for help because a lot of different reasons.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
So when did you start feeling like a burden?
Like, do you remember the first time you felt that, Oh, I shouldn't ask for help because
I might be a burden to the other person.
I actually don't know.
I feel like I've always been like this.
Like even when I was young, I feel like I'm a person that always solve the problem on
my own, unless like there's some crisis situation, then I would ask my parents.
But yeah, it's such a, I don't even know where it starts.
So like you mean like crisis situation is you only ask for help when it's out of your
control or ability to manage it?
Especially money wise, like you ask your parents for money to, I don't know, get to somewhere
or other thing, but if I can solve it on my own, I'll try to.
I think one reason might be I'm a very efficient person that I like to do things very quickly.
And I feel like if I ask people for help, it slows down that process.
I'm like, if I do it on my own, it'll be so much quicker than asking and then they need
to figure out what to do.
And then, but then I already have all the things in my head.
So if I do it on my own, it's more efficient.
Yeah, that's a fair assumption, especially if you already have a method or a way to do
things already, there'll be more efficient than you doing it and telling other person
to help you teach the other person to do it your way.
And then they do it.
Yeah.
Do you feel the same way as well?
I think in that sense, not really.
Honestly, I don't think it would be more efficient if I don't ask for help.
It would be more efficient if I asked for help because I don't have to do it my way
because I don't really have a way of doing things anyway.
But I really resonate with you that it started very young.
Our society actually encourages us to not ask for help.
I think that's the main thing.
Whenever we do something by ourselves, like for example, as a young kid, you wear your
own clothes, you eat your own breakfast, they'll praise you saying, oh, good job.
You ate your breakfast today by yourself.
You wore your clothes today by yourself.
You went to school by yourself.
Good job.
These messages, at the same time, it does help you be more independent.
Yes, that's very good.
But at the same time, if we overdo it, I think it gives, at least it gave me the message
of right, when you do things yourself, that is the right way of doing things in the society.
Like our society encourage the independence and not seeking help.
I think that's why we're so over independent.
That's why we don't ask for help.
I think for me, it's going overseas and a lot of things you don't really have people
to reach out to.
Especially new to the place, you are not really familiar with the other people.
You might not feel comfortable asking help and you end up just Googling everything and
sort everything out on your own.
So for me, I do feel like I have an issue of over independence.
Sometimes I struggle to seek help and even ask for help.
Just seems like you forgot how to.
Yeah, it's just, actually, it's just one word, help.
Yeah, I need help.
Can you help me this?
It's so easy, but again, easy to set and done.
It's very easy to say it, but a lot of stuff prevents us from saying it.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
And do you remember the last time you asked for help then?
I'm assuming that we will remember because we rarely ask for help.
When we were talking about it, it's mainly we split into two things like physical support
and mental support.
Maybe we can start with physical support.
I think this has not happened, but I should going to ask you to get my marathon bib.
Yeah, I offered yesterday.
Yeah, you offered and I was actually going to ask you whether you can take it for me
because I feel like you're already there, you know, it's not like an extra burden to
you.
I think this is the most recent one, even though I haven't asked.
I shouldn't have offered then.
I should have waited for you to ask me.
Yeah, you should.
But I think it's not that difficult for me to ask for your help because as you said,
it's like a physical task.
It's very different from asking for mental support, but we can talk about that later.
But for me, it might be asking you for collecting my bib or...
Even last time when your place got flooded, I would say that is physical, kind of like
physical support.
Oh yeah, that is huge.
I think I would not foresee myself doing so, but I think in that situation where it's
so urgent and it links to safety, then it's like my body is very alert that I need to
ask for help.
A bit of background story, my place got flooded because one of the flexi pipe got burst.
So we nearly get electrocuted because water and electricity don't go well.
Wow, thank you for that.
Life lessons from that.
Well, it sounds simple, but at the moment you might not realise that.
I'm very thankful because my dad always teach me and my sister every time we go for a long
holiday, we shut down all the main electricity, power and stuff because you never know what
will happen.
So I think it's so ingrained in my head that when that thing happened, I immediately say
we need to turn off the power.
After that, I freeze.
I'm like, I don't know what's next.
I don't know what to do.
I don't know where to stop the water.
We turn off all the stuff and we call the firefighters at the end.
But then the problem is we don't have a place to stay because we can't stay at the house
until it's safe to do so.
And two of my housemates, there's no friends that they can call for allow us to stay.
So I'm like, oh, okay, I'll have to call someone.
So I actually reached out to two friends.
I didn't even think, I did not hesitate at all.
I just call, which is very out of character.
Right?
Yeah, because it's not me.
I would rather stay at the 24 hours gym than reaching out to friends.
But I just don't know.
It might be I'm so hyper vigilant at that time.
That's why I seek help.
Or maybe you weren't even thinking.
You couldn't think straight.
Yeah, I'm definitely not thinking.
I didn't even hesitate to call you and the other friend.
I'm just, hey, do you have a place to stay?
We're going to come down.
Well, we didn't go, but.
But you still asked for help.
It's very out of character for me.
I think that's one of the most recent and I'm sure like at work or like at other area
in my life, I would have asked people to do simple tasks if they can.
I think it's not an issue for me to do so.
But yeah, is it the same for you?
What's your most recent?
Okay.
So yeah, a few months ago I moved from Gabba to city.
So it's like 15 minutes drive.
Previously when I moved, I completely did it myself and it was a walkable distance.
20 minute walk and I moved everything by myself.
I just kept going back and forth, back and forth.
It was, it was still okay.
It was manageable.
I would still say it's manageable.
It's not good, but manageable.
Yeah.
And it's, as I said, like it goes back to what I said in the beginning where it's not
most efficient.
Like it will be so much more efficient if I ask for help.
Yeah.
But yeah, I didn't ask for help because I can do it myself.
It just takes a bit longer and I'm okay with being a bit longer than rather asking for
help.
It's just me, me being stubborn.
But a few months ago when I moved the new housemate, well actually they offered.
Yeah that's what I'm going to say.
Well, like it wasn't like black and white saying, okay, I will help you.
They only said it like when we met up, they asked me once or twice.
Right.
Okay.
So I wouldn't consider that as an actual verbal agreement.
Like you didn't sign a contract?
Like it's not, it's not like, cause a lot of people just say stuff.
So I wouldn't take that as a promise.
Right.
Like they just offer as a kindness gesture.
Yeah.
Yeah as a gesture.
If it's not black and white, like saying like a text message or whatever, I wouldn't assume
it because a lot of people just say stuff without thinking.
Yeah.
And that's what I assume as well.
Like I wouldn't take it as a promise.
So then I asked, are you sure or are you still up for helping me move or something like that?
So I would consider that as me asking for help, even though it was offered previously
already.
Yeah.
Oh, I didn't know about that part.
Like I was actually forced to help you.
And maybe they would still come if I didn't ask.
I don't know.
But that's a huge step for you as well.
Yeah.
I think for me, that part was partially, I feel bad if I decline it, like if I don't
ask them for help because I'm moving in with them.
Cause most of the time, like when people feel good to help other people, right?
Yeah.
So that part of me actually feel bad if I don't accept that help.
Right.
Wait a minute.
There's a lot of assumption going on here.
Actually, maybe I shouldn't say it because they will hear, they will listen to this podcast.
No, but that's what this podcast for, like to break down stuff that we don't talk about.
But the first thing is you assume that you will burden them if you ask for help.
Yes.
And the second is you assume that you will upset them if you decline for their help.
So there's a lot of assumption going on here.
And I know it's illogical.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm fully aware of that.
I'm very aware of it too, but it's how my mind worked and I just try to process it and
tell myself it's illogical.
That's why I actually made myself send the message.
And even I told, I actually told her before sending that message, I actually waited for
10 minutes and thinking if I should send that message.
I'm like, okay, I'm just going to send it and I took a shower because I was like, I'm
not going to look at my phone.
That's what I usually do as well.
Like if I send a message that I don't want to face it anymore, I just do something else
and ignore it.
Yeah, exactly.
Just get your mind off it.
But even though it was hard, like physical support is hard for me personally, it's still
easier than mental support.
I'm still so proud of you though, right?
For asking help.
I think that's a huge step for Vive.
Well, actually, no.
I asked, like, for example, I needed a sleeping bag.
I asked you for help.
Yeah.
I would consider that as asking for help as well.
Yeah, that too.
But it's like not really a burden because because I bought that sleeping bag like four
or five years ago, I never use it once.
Yeah, I use it more than you did.
Yes, I borrow people in Sydney and then when I come to Brisbane, I borrow to other people.
I've never used it once.
Yeah, and I've used it at least twice.
Yeah.
So it to me is not a burden.
And I'm sure on your side, I'm just assuming that you won't feel it is a burden to me because
I don't use it anyway.
That's my reason of okay, I can ask.
Yes, that's why I say it's easier.
For say, you remember one time you're looking your sister is coming over and you're looking
for blankets, you need it?
Oh, that's a bit different.
Because I'm not asking for help for myself.
Because I'm asking help for my sister or like for someone else.
Asking for someone else is so much easier.
So much easier.
Yeah, that's true.
It's like, because I would put myself in your shoes when your place got flooded.
Because you have housemates, then I would like you would ask for help.
Because if I put myself in that situation and I'm living by myself, I would not tell
anyone.
Oh, yeah.
I would just go to the gym.
Yeah, I would just go to 24, 7 gym or like if I know I have a gym membership, I would
just honestly I would rather stay at McDonald's Maccas than asking for help and telling other
people especially it's in the middle of the night.
Wow.
Now I'm not that proud of myself.
No, you should be.
You should still.
Like the whole situation was a very crisis mode and you managed it very well, honestly.
Proud of both of us.
Yeah.
The first step.
But mental support, do you ever ask for help on that?
You want to share first?
I don't know where to start.
I think I used to.
You used to be able to ask?
Not really ask, but just like renting.
If people know me back in high school, I'm those people that I have a big mouth.
I talk everything about myself.
I rip myself over and pull out all the facts and past history, everything.
So it's more about yourself, not about other people?
No.
Well, sometimes I do too, but it's more about myself that I share about everything that I'm
going through in my mind.
For me, it's very easy because it's not only telling other people, but also vocalising
it and process my thought out loud.
And I remember one time someone told me, oh, not everyone wants to know.
And at that moment, I just, not at that moment, but like every time I think back of it, I'm
like, yeah, no one cares.
You know?
No people do care.
But not everyone, yes.
When I was a teenager, like 16, 17, I think that way.
I'm like, no one cares.
Why would they want to know about what's going on with you?
And you are forcing people to hear what you are sharing.
And it is such a burden to everyone.
You never ask consent to share.
I mean, not on everything, right?
You wouldn't.
Like you want to ask, oh, can I share something with you about what I had for dinner the other
night?
You wouldn't.
Because it's just something very normal.
Yeah, but now I feel like out of courtesy, I should.
Because what I'm sharing is emotional dumping on people.
And I think that's the difference between emotional dumping and seeking help for mental
support.
Yeah, or ranting.
I think that's, it's very different.
Yeah.
But I think with the past experience, I still kind of link both together.
So for me now, it's a bit difficult to seek help for mental support because I always go
back to the phrase, no one wants to know.
Not everyone wants to hear what you're going through.
If you can just deal with it on your own.
And it's very different from what I'm studying.
Like what I'm working in the field as counselling.
We ask people to seek help, but I don't personally.
And it's something that I'm also actively learning from it and changing that, rewire
that thought.
So yeah, I think that's how I feel about my mental support.
Yeah, definitely.
I agree with everything you just said.
Well, it is hard because of that statement to share now.
When was the most recent time where you actually asked for help to support you mentally?
Or it doesn't have to be like asking, or it's just like sharing, or I guess in any way you
ask for help.
I think I always share after I have processed part of it.
I think a lot of time now I think through it first before seeking help.
And it's very different from asking for physical help.
Like, Hey, can you help me to do this?
For mental support, I might do, Hey, do you want to catch up?
And then through the catch up or like the meals that you share what you're going through.
But I find it way more difficult than physical support for sure.
I do personally have experienced seeing a counselor.
That is freaking hard.
I don't know how many times have gone through in my mind to cancel that appointment, canceling
that appointment, changing the appointment to telehealth, rescheduling it.
So I fully understand why people don't attend their first appointment.
Yeah, the first one is very hard.
And every time now I see a client, I really appreciate them taking that one step courage.
That's a very big courage.
That is very big, like one huge step, like a giant step.
But yeah, I think I would thought seeking help from a random stranger would be easier,
but it's actually equally the same difficulty for me.
So that was your last time of reaching out to ask for help, specifically just to support
you mentally.
Would you say so?
Yeah, I think that's the seeing the counselor, but I do occasionally.
Not every time I ask friends to hang out is I have something that I need to get support
from.
I think three weeks ago, I did send a text to a friend and say, Hey, they want to catch
up.
And in my mind, there's a no agenda, but like a purpose that I want to ask for opinion
or get a different perspective.
Therefore I send that message.
I would say I asked mental support for a more subtle way.
Okay, yeah.
Yeah.
Is it the same for you?
In comparison, physical support, you mentioned it's hard already, especially it's hard for
me already.
So mental support is even harder.
Yeah, sorry.
I think in my life, it would be, there's only a handful of time where I actually asked for
help in supporting mentally.
Do you remember when that was?
If you don't mind sharing to the public.
Yeah, I don't think she would listen to it anyways.
So end of last year, I was thinking of, Oh, okay, maybe I should share a specific event
with someone else or specific issue with someone else.
So I was like thinking in my head, okay, who can I tell that I would kind of get the support
that I want?
So I was like, okay, I have a lot of counselor friends, but I don't want them to be my counselor,
right?
And I know they will go to the counselor mode of asking me even more questions, even though
I think it's just out of care.
It's very genuine care.
I do caught myself doing the counselor talk all the time.
So I'm fully guilty for that.
Every time you'd ask me a question like that feels like the counselor mode, I would laugh.
But anyways, another topic.
So I was like thinking, okay, but I don't want to ask them for help because of that side
that that's a factor that you want a non bias aspect.
Is that what you're looking for?
Oh, maybe not non bias.
It's just because I don't want them to be my counselor.
I still want them to be my friend.
I feel like if I do share the dynamic would change a bit and he's in that conversation
and I don't want that to change.
So I was like, okay, no, no counselor friends.
And I want it to be face to face.
Right.
So I asked, what is the purpose for asking?
Because you mentioned you need to tell someone.
I think getting more perspective because I'm stuck in my way of thinking it's not helping
me at that moment.
Yeah.
So then I was just going through the list of the people that I know here because I want
to face to face.
Okay.
So then I landed on a person, a friend.
Yeah.
I crafted like a message like because I didn't want an emotional dump.
And I think at that moment or until now, I still think the issue at hand, it's a bit
more heavy, I would say.
So then I crafted a message saying, Oh, can I share something with you kind of thing and
asking for consent basically.
Yeah.
And I think that's like out of courtesy.
That's really nice of you doing so given you have an understanding of what you're going
to share that might have an impact on the other person.
Even though it's completely like my experience is not about the other person.
So then I crafted a message and I waited for like a month, just a month.
Yeah, just a month.
It was just annoying me.
I showed the message to the two housemates and asking, Oh, should I send this?
Or is there anything to edit on it?
I blacked out some of the parts that I didn't want to share.
And then I realized the note created dates was a month ago.
And then they were like, just send it now and get it over with.
It's been one month, just send it.
It's clearly bothering you.
And I think deep down, it's partially why I shared the message with them to have that
accountability of like that they are going to push me.
To send that message.
And then at that time I was like, Oh, but then like she has work.
I shouldn't send it during her work hours.
I shouldn't send it in the morning.
I shouldn't send it at night.
There's so many reasons of why I shouldn't send it at that time.
But in the end I was like, okay, I'm going to send it, send it.
And then I went for my longest run at that moment.
I then ran for 12K.
It was so easy.
That 12K was so easy.
Run, okay.
Because my mind was just on that and I was not focused on my run.
Right.
Wow.
That's a lot of assumption again.
I think it's because I don't know what she is going through herself.
Like I have another assumption.
Oh, maybe she's going through something herself already.
I shouldn't share something negative.
Like, this is not a positive thing.
Yeah.
So yeah, I don't want to burden them in that aspect.
And what was the result?
Do you feel better after you sending it?
Oh, sending the message?
Yeah, definitely.
I felt, um, not immediately.
I'm just assuming she's not going to listen to it.
So I'm going to share it.
We just hope for the best.
Not immediately because I send it at five or six and I went for a run and then I came
back.
I expected a response, but I didn't assume she would just say yes.
I assumed just a response, like whether she doesn't want me to share, it's okay.
I'm fine with that totally.
But I just wanted a response.
And then when I'm done with the run, okay, no response.
It's still okay.
Like it makes sense that people don't reply you immediately.
Right.
But then we have WhatsApp groups together.
She replied in one or two of them.
I forgot.
Like you know that she's seen the message, but she didn't reply.
Right.
Okay.
And that's scary.
Yes.
I think it's just like you put yourself out there being vulnerable and you don't have
a reply.
I think it's okay to, I really was fine with her saying no.
It's just like not having a reply.
And then I will have to see her very soon again, face to face in other group settings
and I didn't know how to handle that.
Yeah.
And it's okay for us, the sender to feel scary as well.
Because as you said, you are being vulnerable.
You have been thrown into this uncertainty of not knowing.
She will say yes, she'll say no, or she will say whatever.
There's a million chance of saying other things as well.
So it's okay for us to feel scared as well.
It's just like at that moment I couldn't sleep, which is annoying.
It's very annoying.
But yeah, that was my last time.
Would you say the incident that you're going to share with that friend is one of the biggest
mental block that you have?
At that moment, yes.
That's why I reached out for help.
It wasn't, if it weren't the biggest one, I would think I can still manage it myself.
Because if it's not the biggest thing, then I've managed worse in the past.
Then what is this anyways, right?
We all seek help for mental support when it's very last minute.
We're not encouraging it though.
I think now looking back, I wish I asked for help.
I reached out for help earlier.
Yeah, and it's a common analogy, the water bucket, that you can't only seek help when
your tank is empty.
The most ideal is halfway through, you realize you don't have much water left.
You seek help and refill that bucket.
But again, it's easier to say than done that we always tend to seek help when we're in
drought.
Yeah, exactly.
And what I was saying, there weren't any expectations from the other person.
And that's how I tend to rationalize with me asking for help.
I have to expect nothing so I don't get disappointed.
Right, it's like self-protecting as well.
Yeah, exactly.
It doesn't matter what kind of support.
I'll just assume that, okay, if they say no, then how can I deal with it myself?
Or how I can ask other people for help?
Well, actually immediately I would go to how I can do it myself first.
And it's so funny, I'm not saying like physical or mental, but if people ask for my help and
I would 95% say yes because I feel bad saying no.
But if I'm asking for help, I'm fully okay that people reject me because I understand
that they might not have the time or other reasons that they couldn't help.
It's not because they don't want to.
So it's so funny that we don't give ourselves that self-compassion.
It's interesting to observe how we think as well.
Yeah, I agree because if I can help, I would definitely help.
I'm always glad that the other person asked me for help.
And you feel good to help people as well?
Yeah, I think again, I feel like even when I'm helping the other person, it comes from
a selfish aspect that because I know it will feel good, that's why I help the other person.
I think for me myself, I feel that way.
Because even when I'm helping the other person, it's not actually 100% genuine.
I feel like at least a percentage of it is because I want to feel good.
And I think that's part of genuineness as well.
I think it's reciprocal, that you help people, you make them feel easier in their life, happier
in their life.
But at the same time, you receive something back as well, is you feel happy on your own.
You help someone and you do good.
I don't see that as selfish, but I think the nature of give and take in a life.
Yeah, that's one perspective, but that's a bit...
Side-track.
Yeah, a bit side-track.
Anyways, yeah.
So going back to our expectations, what do you expect when you ask for other people for
help?
I think my expectation is I'm okay with them saying no to me.
I would be glad if they say yes.
My expectation would be no matter what their response is, I'm fine.
I think that's my expectation, that I'm forcing myself to think it's okay if people say no.
And I'm pretty sure if people say no, I wouldn't be sad because I would understand...
It makes sense.
...where they're coming from.
But other than talking about the response prior to asking for help, I have a lot of
expectation.
I would feel like, are they busy?
As you said, oh, they might be busy at work, they might be tired after the work, so I shouldn't
spend around those time.
I shouldn't text them in the morning because I'll ruin the day for the rest of the day.
So there's no good time to send a message or ask for help.
If you have an assumption that once you send that message, you're bordering the person,
you are burdening them, then no matter what time you send, it is a burden to you.
I think that's just how I feel.
So I think we mentioned a lot of reasons why we tend not to ask for help.
Sometimes we feel like we are such a burden to other people.
I feel like I will be more efficient to doing or solving the problem on my own.
We have a lot of assumptions, too many assumptions around people might be busy, people might
not be in good mental state, they have their own things going on, they might be going on
a holiday and enjoying their life.
It can be seeing seeking help as emotional dumping as well.
Or we have expectations from others or our perception of others.
And I think the last thing is sometimes people feel being vulnerable is weak, that they want
to protect themselves so they don't ask for help.
I think for me, it's not the case because I study counselling so we are very emotionally
in touch.
But I'm sure for some other people, especially certain culture, they see seeking help as
being weak, being vulnerable is weak.
So that might stop us from seeking help as well.
Moving on to that recently, I found another reason of not sharing.
I think it ties back to one of the previous experiences I had as a younger person, teenager,
often ask people for help, physical stuff or assignment help or whatever, or just asking
the other person to help you print something.
So I often did and they always help.
So I was like, okay, they're very willing to help, right?
They just say yes immediately.
But I think eventually I got the feedback or I heard someone say that person felt like
I was using them.
And I didn't see it as a big deal, printing a thing or even like what you said, getting
your bib.
Like, it's not a big deal, I would say.
It's like you're printing something already.
Like might as well.
Yeah, might as well do it because it takes five more seconds of your time.
So I think that experience really prevents me from asking for help because what if they
really just saying yes because out of, I don't know whatever reason, but they don't actually
generally want to help.
Yeah.
So they say yes, but they don't mean to.
Yeah.
And they don't know how to say no.
So they say yes.
Exactly.
Right.
That's actually true sometimes as well.
So I'm sure that makes a huge impact on how you think nowadays as well.
That's actually true.
Sometimes the feedback that we got from people can really have a huge impact on our thought
process.
Yeah.
So my experience, like I have a negative experience with receiving help and it prevents me from
receiving more help and asking for help.
What about you?
Do you have any negative experience like similar to that?
I think from a giver perspective, I do have some times that I don't want to help people,
but I don't know how to say no.
So I say yes.
But I feel like it is my responsibility to be accountable for that.
It shouldn't be the receiver's responsibility to carry that burden or whatever you name
it because I'm the one say yes.
You know, if I say yes, then I have to be responsible for my yes.
So even though if I don't want to, it's my responsibility that I need to help the person
and can't complain.
Oh, I don't want to do this.
I don't want to do that because I said yes to myself.
But yeah, I feel like from a receiver perspective, I'm pretty sure I have received negative experience,
but I just couldn't recall at the moment.
I'm just pretty bad at reading people's feedback.
Okay.
So not a lot of experience or like negative response that is standing out to you at this
moment.
No, but from a giver perspective, I fully understand why you think that way as well.
Yeah.
So actually as a giver perspective, because it's hard for you to say no, do you think
like the people you ask for help would think that way as well?
Like they don't want to say yes, but it's just they don't know how to say no, then they
just say yes.
Yeah, I think so.
I think it's definitely the catch 22 where you don't know how to say no and next time
you ask for help, you feel like they don't know how to say no.
So you feel like, oh, I shouldn't ask because they will have to say yes and they are not
happy and I'm such a burden to them and you know, it goes on and on.
So yeah, I definitely agree.
But as you said, like you feel like it's your own responsibility of having to actually voice
out like you don't want to help or you can't really help.
That's just me being harsh on myself.
So you have different standards for yourself and others.
Yeah.
And you have much higher expectations and standards for yourself than you do for other
people.
I think absolutely.
I think that ties back to the previous episode where why we are being too harsh on ourselves.
I think absolutely right.
I'm just we have different standards for ourselves and other people and that's just how I am
at the moment.
Yeah, I would say similar to you where I have more high expectations of myself and especially
in the aspect of helping other people.
But I think and I add on something, if I know that person is more confrontational than me,
I feel like whenever they say yes and no, they're genuine.
But if the person that I'm asking for help, I know he or she is also a people pleaser
or they struggle to say no, then I will overthink.
Is that a genuine yes or is it I don't know how to say no, yes, because I do have friends
that are very confrontational and very explicit in saying how they feel in that situation.
I don't overthink that much.
So it really depends on the people that I'm asking as well.
So would you say it's easier to ask for the people that are more confrontational or it's
still similar?
Still similar because if they are confrontational, I'll be scared that they say no and I'll
feel hurt.
Okay, so similar is still very challenging and asking for help.
Yeah, yeah.
So how do you think we can improve in that aspect of just asking for help in both mentally
and physically?
I can be completely honest with you.
I don't know.
It's something that I'm still not still working on.
I haven't even started.
But very cliche practice makes perfect.
The more you try, the easier it can be.
I don't know.
I don't know if that's true.
But yeah, I'm fully honest with you.
I don't know.
Do you know?
I actually don't.
I know I asked this question, but for me personally, I don't like this question because but for
me is I don't want to improve in this.
I'm very stubborn in this way where I have to be the person who help.
I don't want to be the receiver.
So you're happy with where you're at right now?
Okay, maybe not happy, but more comfortable.
Okay.
I'm comfortable.
I don't want to rock that boat.
I know it will be uncomfortable, which is how you grow.
And I think in the past, I just tried to build that resilience through different challenging
stuff.
And you do build it up through those experiences.
But it's just more comfortable in helping other people.
And I think for me, how do I improve in asking for help, even though I don't like this question,
but I think what I can do is be more humble.
I don't have it all together.
I have to tell people that I don't have it all together.
I may seem like it to especially to people that I meet for the first time because it's
was your first time seeing the other person and you try to put your best front, at least
for me, I would do that.
And I think it's that humbleness, that humility where it gives you a perspective of you don't
have everything together and it's okay.
Yeah.
And given the chance for other people to help you because other people, even though they
may not be counselors, and even if they are counselors, they are more skilled in some
things that you're not.
They have more experience in the experiences that you don't, that you have gone through
maybe or you have not gone through that they can teach you a lot.
And it's just having that perspective gives me a reason to ask for help and tell people
what I'm going through.
It's still challenging, yes.
Because we're being vulnerable at the same time.
And especially when you're going through it, it's even more challenging because you
haven't figured it out.
But that's how I would reason myself in asking for help.
This is a really good way, like being humble and knowing that no one is perfect.
That is true.
Never think it that way.
Does that give you a perspective in knowing how to improve and asking for help for yourself?
It can be something that I could try.
I think for me, I'm the opposite from you though, that I want to rock that boat.
I want to make myself feel uncomfortable to be able to seek help physically and mentally
moving forward instead of overthinking, over-assuming and not seek help.
I think because the older I get, there's a lot more stuff going on that you have never
experienced and you never know what you will experience.
And I just feel like it is very important to have that skill of seeking help instead
of waiting till last minute.
You're in crisis, you are drowning and you don't have that life buoy to pull you back
to the water surface.
So I might actually give it a try being humble and seeing if that's easier to seek help.
And I think finding a trusted person that you're close with to start is very important
as well.
I know we're going towards the end of the podcast, but I suddenly have an experience
that I had last year where I slowly just start crying and I couldn't stop.
I was just bursting into tears for like 20 minutes and then I have a break, a water break
or a breathing break and then I start crying again.
So I called my sister and we have a chat which is very out of my character because I never
call my sister but the thing is related to family so I think it makes sense that I call
her as well.
So we chat even though the response that I get is not what I expected but at least it
gives me another perspective in thinking and it calms me down.
I think in that situation instead of letting myself to keep crying, talking to someone,
give yourself that buffer.
I don't feel I'm thinking anymore.
I think that's just how I feel.
So find a person that you trust even though the response that you get might not be positive,
it can still be beneficial in that situation.
Yeah because the analogy that you beautifully put is the life buoy, like your sister is
that finding that trusted person is very important in your life.
And of course I want a fancy boat drive past and pick me up and I have a nice shower or
dry it up.
That's the most ideal situation but sometimes you might just have that life buoy and floating
and then you slowly go to the island and land and you're still wet but that's okay as well.
But you're not drowning, you're not sinking.
Yes exactly.
Yeah thank you for sharing that.
I don't know if the audience feel the same way as us.
Are you a person that is easily able to seek help or are you a person that, same as us,
struggles to seek help and feeling like we are such a burden to other people?
And when does that happen?
Is it something you experience that caused you to think that way?
I think as we said, the awareness and thinking deep to the root is what we always encourage
as well.
Yeah and just having the awareness and also the reasons behind of you not asking for help,
the reason preventing you from asking help, it gives you a way in finding how you can
improve it as well in asking for help.
And it's different for everyone.
The humbleness helps be in asking for help.
It may not help for everyone else because the reasons are very different and the way
we think is very different.
So it's having the awareness of your experiences, of your thoughts, gives you that way of working
through in asking for help or in everything else honestly.
Yeah I think that's why I like this podcast is I can get a perspective from your side
as well.
And sometimes the audience share how they think as well when we ask questions on Instagram
so that's really nice to have that community.
That being said, if you still haven't followed our Instagram, our Instagram handle is the
one in your 20s.podcast.
I think that's the end of our episode this week.
If you like it or you resonate with it, you can share it with people.
I hope you all have a great week and we'll see you next week.
Bye!