1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,700 Have you ever wanted to experience what it's like to play a piano that has narrow keys? 2 00:00:14,700 --> 00:00:20,920 Keys that could cut your practice time in half and make stretches feel easy? 3 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:27,360 My name is Hanna Reiman and I'm delighted to introduce you to the world of stretto pianos. 4 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:35,200 Stretto means narrow in Italian. 5 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,760 Last couple of months I've had the great joy of working on a keyboard which has a six inch 6 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:41,920 octave rather than the standard six and a half. 7 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:50,800 Immediately I noticed a difference, such a freeing experience to play what I wanted. 8 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:56,840 And so I think just having that experience really convinced me that perhaps piano technology 9 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,840 needed to evolve a little bit, it still had some ways to go. 10 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:05,580 I have found that on this smaller keyboard I've been able to execute various musical 11 00:01:05,580 --> 00:01:14,920 ideas and technically challenging sections with much more ease and control. 12 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,240 Welcome back to another episode of The Piano Pod. 13 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,560 I am your host, Yuki Miso. 14 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:24,320 You know this show, The Piano Pod, is all about bringing the classical music industry 15 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:27,120 forward into the next generation. 16 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:33,800 And so far I've interviewed incredibly talented pianists and composers, educators, psychologists, 17 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:39,800 and entrepreneurs working tirelessly to do so by thinking outside the box. 18 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,060 Today's guest is no exception. 19 00:01:42,060 --> 00:01:47,800 She is someone whom I consider one of the pioneers or innovators of our industry. 20 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,080 So before introducing you to my guest, please hear me out. 21 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:57,560 A recent study at the University of North Texas found that 75% of their piano students 22 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,940 wished they had larger hands. 23 00:02:00,940 --> 00:02:07,180 The current piano keyboard was actually not really designed to suit most pianists. 24 00:02:07,180 --> 00:02:15,840 It dates from the 1880s and suited certain famous European male virtuosos of that time. 25 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:21,360 And before then, piano keyboards generally had narrower keys and different sizes were 26 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:22,960 available. 27 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:30,720 So that got me thinking, how many of us pianists worldwide are not reaching our full musical 28 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:36,480 potential due to a keyboard being too big or too wide? 29 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:44,840 According to PASC piano.org, PASC stands for Pianists for Alternatively Sized Keyboards. 30 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:51,840 Recent research into pianists' hand spans shows that over 50% of adults have hand spans 31 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,600 that are too small for the conventional keyboard. 32 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:03,480 About 87% of women and 24% of men have hands that are too small for the current sized keyboard. 33 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:09,480 Children are currently forced to learn on the instrument designed for men with large 34 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:10,480 hands. 35 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:19,040 And lastly, given a choice of keyboard, around 75% of adults would most likely choose a smaller 36 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:20,040 size. 37 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:26,440 So, after all the struggles you might have as a pianist are not because of your shortcomings, 38 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:31,920 but maybe the wrong sized keyboard you've been practicing and performing for your size. 39 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:35,560 Today I invited Ms. Hannah Ryman. 40 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:41,280 She is a fellow New Yorker and a pioneer and advocate of stretto pianos. 41 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:46,360 Before getting started, I want to welcome everybody listening to or watching the Piano 42 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:47,880 Pod for the first time. 43 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:52,400 I'm a classical pianist and educator from New York City, passionate about creating a 44 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:58,000 thriving and meaningful community of the classical music industry through this podcast. 45 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,760 Please visit Yukimisongsstudio.com to find out more about my work. 46 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:07,640 In each episode of the Piano Pod, I interview a guest speaker who has been breaking exciting 47 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:09,640 new ground in the industry. 48 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,240 Before getting started, I want to thank everyone for tuning in. 49 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:18,800 Please rate the show and review it on your favorite podcast platform because every rating 50 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,400 review will help people find my show. 51 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:26,640 Please stay with me till the end of this episode to learn about stretto pianos from the very 52 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:32,160 person who convinced Steinway and Sons to build stretto pianos. 53 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:39,560 So here we go dear friends, please enjoy the show. 54 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,840 You are listening to the Piano Pod where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry 55 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:49,840 about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century. 56 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:56,800 I am honored to welcome Hannah Ryman, pianist, vocalist, composer, actor, filmmaker and educator 57 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:58,160 from New York City. 58 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:03,680 She is also advocate of stretto pianos and creator of International Stretto Piano Festival 59 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,400 and Stretto Piano Concerts. 60 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,400 Nearly 30 years ago, Ms. Ryman felt the need for a different type of piano to accommodate 61 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:12,720 her hand size. 62 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,840 So she independently rebuilt her Steinway piano and that's the beginning of her journey 63 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:19,640 with stretto pianos. 64 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,520 Since then, she has performed in Canada, in Japan with the stretto piano and contacted 65 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:31,160 and presented proposals and materials directly to executives of all the major piano manufacturers 66 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:38,600 including Steinway, Yamaha, Kawaii, Bosendorfer and Roland to build these pianos. 67 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,400 After three decades of her effort, stretto pianos are now available from Steinway and 68 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:50,400 Sons on a custom order basis making Ms. Ryman the only liaison for anyone wanting an original 69 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,560 Steinway stretto grand piano. 70 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,720 In addition, her success with this instrument has made her the face of the stretto as the 71 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,560 producer of concerts. 72 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:04,040 Ms. Ryman was featured on the front page of the Wall Street Journal and described as a 73 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:10,360 quote musician on the mission to make the world safe for small pianists end quote. 74 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:11,360 So welcome, Hannah. 75 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:12,840 Thanks for being here today. 76 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:13,840 Yay. 77 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:16,920 It's a pleasure to be here with you, Yukimi. 78 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,640 Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you. 79 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:20,640 Thank you. 80 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,840 Now, I was introduced by our mutual friend, Ethan Janney. 81 00:06:24,840 --> 00:06:30,200 He is a wonderful piano technician from New York as well and then he owns a company floating 82 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:31,200 piano factory. 83 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:37,400 Now, he is the one who introduced us and until then, honestly, Hannah, I did not know anything 84 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:38,840 about stretto piano. 85 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:39,840 Shame on me. 86 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:42,680 So I feel like I was born today. 87 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:48,360 Please don't feel like there's any mistake if you don't know about pianos with narrower 88 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:54,680 keys because they are just emerging as a large movement now. 89 00:06:54,680 --> 00:07:01,120 It's taken a very long time for individuals to embrace this technology. 90 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:07,400 So most people don't know about pianos with narrower keys to accommodate small hands, 91 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:13,600 which is why pioneers like myself and some other lovely people who I'll tell you about 92 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:19,520 have taken it upon themselves to raise awareness by collaborating with different people in 93 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:24,960 the industry and creating concerts and rebuilding their pianos. 94 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:31,240 So it's taken many years for there to be a kind of visibility and still most people don't 95 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:32,240 know about it. 96 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:33,680 So that's why we're doing this. 97 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,360 That's why I'm talking to you and that's why I created a concert platform. 98 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:39,360 Wonderful. 99 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:46,840 So when I visited your website, stretto piano concerts dot org, and there were several small 100 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,280 video clips and one of them, especially one quote struck me. 101 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:56,840 You mentioned that this piano creates creativity, equality and joy for people. 102 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,720 The word equality just meant everything. 103 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:05,600 This is one of the reasons I do this podcast and that's the 21st century way of thinking 104 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,600 about not just only music, but also piano, right? 105 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:14,360 Piano is the only instrument that doesn't come in multiple sizes in terms of keys for 106 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,920 a wood and metal piano. 107 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:21,560 And this, even though it does not seem like an issue to most people, there really is a 108 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:26,880 history of pianists as they play more and more difficult repertoire, getting injuries. 109 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:33,520 I mean, imagine playing a violin or a viola with a really small hand for years and years 110 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,160 and playing extremely difficult music. 111 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,760 Even if you have a perfect technique, you're much more comfortable with something that 112 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:40,960 fits you. 113 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:46,640 And lots of pianists have not had that opportunity yet, including the smallest children who are 114 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:47,640 virtuosos. 115 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:53,840 So, you know, this just opens up a whole other market and a whole other way of thinking as 116 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,780 it becomes embraced. 117 00:08:55,780 --> 00:09:00,720 So dear piano pause listeners, here we are today to focus on the topic of stretto pianos. 118 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,000 What is a stretto piano and why stretto piano? 119 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:09,760 And these questions will lead us to more philosophical discussion later today and why Hannah is here 120 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,120 promoting and advocating for stretto piano. 121 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:16,440 So maybe you already answered this question, but let's start with this simple question. 122 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,440 What is a stretto piano? 123 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:19,440 Okay. 124 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:27,640 So a stretto piano is any instrument with keyboards that has keys that are narrower 125 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:33,760 than the conventional size of piano keyboard, which can be calculated different ways. 126 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:38,800 You know, most piano keyboards with 88 keys are 48 inches. 127 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,380 My reduced width keyboard is 44 inches with 88 keys. 128 00:09:43,380 --> 00:09:47,920 But my colleagues around the world and other people have established a new way of measuring 129 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,800 and that is with an octave span. 130 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:56,000 So the octave span of the conventional keys is 6.5 inches. 131 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:04,800 Stretto pianos are different dimensions, but 6.0 or 5.9 or 5.5. 132 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,720 And there are even some people making smaller ones. 133 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:13,820 They can be in any kind of keyboard instruments, electronic instruments, wooden metal pianos. 134 00:10:13,820 --> 00:10:16,080 They don't have to have 88 keys. 135 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:23,680 I asked my co-artistic directors, Rhonda Boyle and Carol Leone, who participated in creating 136 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:29,720 the festival with me so it can become an international phenomenon, asked them, you know, let's, why 137 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:35,320 don't we think of a name, a generic term, so we don't have to keep saying pianos with 138 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:36,320 narrow keys. 139 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,320 It's just, you know, it's kind of awkward. 140 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:43,400 We need to define it and give it a brand so that people can understand right away that 141 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,520 this is something that's here to stay. 142 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:52,960 And Carol Leone, who is a fantastic pianist, virtuoso and professor at Meadows School of 143 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:59,560 Music at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas, she volunteered the word Stretto. 144 00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:00,720 She speaks Italian. 145 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,800 We all know what Stretto means in musical terms. 146 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,140 It means narrow in physical terms in Italian. 147 00:11:07,140 --> 00:11:12,480 So I thought it sounded great and we all agreed that we would use that word. 148 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:17,280 And then I asked her if it was all right if I, as I formed Stretto piano concerts as an 149 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,880 entity that could receive funding, I could use the word. 150 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,040 And we just all agreed that it was a very catchy way to communicate what we needed. 151 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:26,040 Wow. 152 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:32,000 So actually the word Stretto piano is your creation, your... 153 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:33,480 Well, our team. 154 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,160 And we decided it together. 155 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:36,680 We had different words. 156 00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:42,120 And yeah, it just, it makes, it makes more sense than saying narrow keys because it's, 157 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,320 you know, for some people, they're not narrow. 158 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,880 They're just normal for the other pianist. 159 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:48,880 Fat. 160 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:55,080 So it's, I don't know, it gives the, it gives the definition a little bit more of an artistic 161 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,080 flair as well. 162 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,080 You know, Italian is the language of music, right? 163 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:00,080 Yeah, exactly. 164 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,560 Do you want to continue with the presentation? 165 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:03,840 I can share the screen. 166 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:04,840 Yes. 167 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:05,840 So that's my piano. 168 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:12,720 I, my parents bought me a seven foot four grand piano that was originally built in 1900 169 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,360 when I became a professional pianist. 170 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,320 And in 1997, I had it rebuilt to have narrower keys. 171 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,480 And you can see that the cheek blocks are fatter. 172 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,160 And you know, if you zoom in on your computer, you can see that the black keys are a bit 173 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,860 narrower than, they look narrower than normal ones. 174 00:12:30,860 --> 00:12:32,940 So that's my, that's the keyboard of my piano. 175 00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:44,560 So the next one is a chart of pianos from the 1500s until now showing what the key width 176 00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:51,440 is, how narrow they are and how, as you go down the list, you see that the piano has 177 00:12:51,440 --> 00:13:00,260 become more and more close to having a 6.0 or a 5.9 width octave. 178 00:13:00,260 --> 00:13:06,040 And as we move towards the 20th century, the keys get fatter and fatter with the advent 179 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,160 of the industrial revolution. 180 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:12,560 And you know, people like Franz Liszt who influenced how the piano was built and the 181 00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:17,280 size the piano was built, and we get closer and closer to a 6.5 inch octave until there's 182 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:18,280 standardization. 183 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:23,720 But you can see if you look closely at this table that there are very many, many varieties 184 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:28,720 of key size before standardization occurred in the 20th century. 185 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:35,520 I got this table from the curator at the Metropolitan Museum of Art for the, you know, Historical 186 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:40,080 Musical Instruments Collections back in the 1990s, because I just wanted to know what 187 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,720 exactly had happened with key size. 188 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:49,120 And here are some zones of hand spans showing that males and females have different size 189 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:50,120 hands. 190 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,480 I mean, everybody knows that, but here's a graph that can show you if you look at it 191 00:13:53,480 --> 00:14:02,680 closely that females really, their hand doesn't fit the 6.5 octave piano keyboard the way 192 00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:04,660 that it fits men. 193 00:14:04,660 --> 00:14:11,840 And here are the current situation of who has large hands, who has small hands, and 194 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:17,400 what's comfortable for people in the current situation and what would be comfortable if 195 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,100 pianos with narrow keys were embraced. 196 00:14:20,100 --> 00:14:25,680 You know, there's like many, many more females would be playing things that fit their body 197 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,480 as we embrace this new technology. 198 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:29,480 This is very interesting. 199 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:37,280 And I just want to remark that this data came from Rhonda Boyle and Carol Leone, who are 200 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,200 two pioneers of what we now call Stratto pianos. 201 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:45,820 They have examined statistics around piano competitions. 202 00:14:45,820 --> 00:14:51,400 And unless you're competing with pieces by Mozart and Bach, most of the prize winners 203 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:58,520 are men who fit the larger repertoire like Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, Scriabin, post-romantic 204 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:03,800 material that has much stretchier stuff, that has bigger intervals, different kinds of physical 205 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:04,800 challenges. 206 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,960 And it's not that women can't play those things. 207 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,120 It's just it's easier with an instrument that fits you. 208 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,120 Right. 209 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,560 But this really shows, you know, I used to think, oh, there's no way I can play this 210 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:17,560 literature. 211 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:22,000 I mean, obviously, it's not about my ability. 212 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,600 It's a lot to do with the instrument that you're using, right? 213 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:26,600 That's right. 214 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:33,080 If a violinist was asked to play a really difficult concerto by Bruch or, you know, 215 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:38,320 20th century composers on an instrument that was too big for them, they may not win the 216 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:39,320 competition either. 217 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:40,320 You know? 218 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:41,320 Right. 219 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:47,560 And here is a comparison of string competition winners and piano competition winners by their 220 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:48,960 ages. 221 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:58,560 And as pre-teens to adults in string competitions get older, the females are the ones who are 222 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,360 winning more prizes. 223 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,200 But with pianos, it's the opposite. 224 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:09,300 So you know, as you play more and more advanced material and you play stretchier stuff as 225 00:16:09,300 --> 00:16:14,860 an adult and you don't have an instrument that fits you quite right, you have to compromise. 226 00:16:14,860 --> 00:16:16,760 I think that's what Graff communicates. 227 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:17,760 Yeah, exactly. 228 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:23,040 Oh, this is the cover of Piano Today magazine also back in the 1990s. 229 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,520 I wrote an article. 230 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:30,280 I think the next page probably will show the article that says, A Modest Proposal. 231 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:35,200 And you can see the two keyboards that I have for my one piano. 232 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,960 And you know, I wanted to discuss this and present this idea to people. 233 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:45,560 It actually was executives at Steinway & Sons that made introductions for me to things like 234 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:51,440 Piano Today magazine and other people who were involved with pianos with small keys 235 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,120 back in the 1990s. 236 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,280 So you know, I really did get help from Steinway & Sons. 237 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:01,380 I'm an official Steinway educator and I've known all of the presidents since the 90s. 238 00:17:01,380 --> 00:17:03,960 And that was how I connected with this journalist. 239 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:08,600 And he was very interested in knowing the editor and the journalist who publishes this 240 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:09,600 magazine. 241 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:11,860 He's very interested in knowing my take on this. 242 00:17:11,860 --> 00:17:18,800 So I wrote an article and then I think the next slide probably is another article. 243 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:23,960 So after writing articles and networking with people and talking about it, another journalist 244 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,520 wanted to interview me for the Wall Street Journal. 245 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,240 And lo and behold, my face was on the front page. 246 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,920 I was complete shock. 247 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,900 And I started getting letters. 248 00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:38,820 This was back in the days when people actually wrote letters and put them in envelopes and 249 00:17:38,820 --> 00:17:40,820 put stamps on them. 250 00:17:40,820 --> 00:17:44,480 I started getting letters from all over the world. 251 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:49,820 I started getting phone calls and there were people in Italy and California who were they 252 00:17:49,820 --> 00:17:58,120 were so grateful that I had rebuilt my piano because they wanted pianos like this too. 253 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:01,640 So this was really exciting for me. 254 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:09,440 And I just knew after this article came out that there was some validation and I had to 255 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,280 continue on this quest. 256 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:17,160 I mistakenly thought, you know, in a few years we're just going to have pianos with small 257 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,120 keys all over the place. 258 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:24,800 And I wrote a global plan for the development of the narrow width keys for boosting pianos. 259 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,320 I sent it to people, but it really didn't happen. 260 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:33,720 I just had to keep doing research and keep pressing the piano companies for many more 261 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:34,720 years than I thought. 262 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:35,720 Wow, this is incredible. 263 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,400 Oh, what is this? 264 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:44,240 So one of the things that happened when I talked to Frank Mazzurco, one of the presidents 265 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,640 of Steinway & Sons in the 1990s, he said, do you have a patent? 266 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,520 If you don't have a patent, we can't do business with you. 267 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:56,480 And I wasn't exactly interested in going into business, but then I realized that was what 268 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,640 somebody had to do to make this work. 269 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,320 So I acquired a U.S. patent. 270 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:06,600 I spent years and thousands of dollars making this, working with technicians. 271 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,320 You could go to the next slide and you'll see some of the images and what the technology 272 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:11,320 actually is. 273 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:12,320 Oh my. 274 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,840 A certain amount of time, unless the patent is licensed, it becomes in the public domain. 275 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,280 It's not a business proposal anymore. 276 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:24,000 Steinway told me that they would license this and we were about to start working on it together, 277 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,880 but then it expired. 278 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,040 And they always got a little bit too busy. 279 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,280 They've got their timeline. 280 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,560 They have the things that they need to do. 281 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:38,640 So this is a technology for converting one piano to have another size of key and the 282 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,880 technical things that have to happen. 283 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:46,240 It's about the key pins that hold the keys into place that are connected to the key frame. 284 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,360 Anybody can access it online now. 285 00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:52,120 It was a huge effort. 286 00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:59,240 After that, I went to Score New York, which is a small business advisory, a city run agency 287 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,920 down in the financial district, and I got a mentor, a business mentor, and I said, I 288 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:05,100 need help with this. 289 00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:09,080 How am I going to make pianos with small keys mainstream? 290 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,000 The industry doesn't want to embrace it. 291 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,120 What should I do? 292 00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:18,960 And my mentor, who is the developer of the first Star Wars action figures, he wanted 293 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,240 me to go to the toy fair because he thought it needed to start with kids. 294 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:31,320 So I went to the toy fair and I found this red piano on display that Shoen Hut toy piano 295 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:32,760 had made. 296 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,080 It's not a toy piano. 297 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:40,240 It's a real string hammer pedal piano, but it's sized down so that a four year old or 298 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,920 five year old can put their feet on the ground. 299 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,200 It has narrower keys. 300 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,640 I think it has 63 keys. 301 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,520 And I just sat down and started playing it. 302 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:54,560 And for several years, they hired me to come to the toy fair and, you know, advocate this 303 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,040 little piano. 304 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:01,520 Unfortunately, it was so expensive to make in China that they had to stop production. 305 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:07,420 It was just more expensive to make because pianos are expensive to make and to sell them. 306 00:21:07,420 --> 00:21:11,720 They would have to charge so much money to sell it retail. 307 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:13,920 They had a very limited production run. 308 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,720 So this taught me a lot about what people need to do to make pianos and what a challenge 309 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,980 it is to change the way things are. 310 00:21:22,980 --> 00:21:27,720 This episode is presented in collaboration with our good friends at Forte, a free alternative 311 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,600 to Zoom purpose-built for music teachers. 312 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:36,320 Forte offers features optimized for classical music lessons, including audio quality far 313 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:41,480 superior to existing platforms and allowing you to hear every nuance of your students' 314 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:42,480 instrument. 315 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:47,360 Their colleagues at the Royal College of Music, Aspen Music Festival, Curtis Institute, and 316 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:51,600 Berklee College of Music have even used Forte in their own programs. 317 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:57,960 Forte's mission is to radically expand access to high quality music education worldwide. 318 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,240 Forte always puts teachers and their students first. 319 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:06,240 This means you can use Forte with your own students for free forever. 320 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,880 And Forte will soon introduce paid features allowing you to connect with new students 321 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,520 around the world. 322 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,880 Sign up for free today at ForteLessons.com or click the link in the description. 323 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:24,400 The size of the octave, so conventional size is 6.5 inches, but then the dreaded piano 324 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,200 can come in 5.5 or 6? 325 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:38,600 Yeah, 5.5 and 6.0 are the two largely selling sizes that a small company in Titusville, 326 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,600 Pennsylvania has been making since the 1990s. 327 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,240 They're called Donison Steinbuehler DS keyboards. 328 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:52,700 I had my keyboard made by Kluga, which is the company in Germany that makes keyboards 329 00:22:52,700 --> 00:22:56,000 for Steinway & Sons and many other companies. 330 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:01,080 The technicians I was working with wanted me to have the Steinway standard, so I was 331 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,120 also very complicated to do this, to communicate in the 1990s with Germany pre-internet. 332 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:09,120 But we all, we had did things via fax. 333 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:12,680 We had to do charcoal rubbings of different parts of the piano. 334 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,120 It was really like a very elaborate effort. 335 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:19,960 So my keyboard is 5.9 inch octave, I'm pretty sure. 336 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:25,560 I had the smallest size that Kluga was willing to make for me back then. 337 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:31,480 But my colleagues, Rhonda and Carol and a group of other people, including David Steinbuehler, 338 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:38,920 who makes the keys himself, they settled on 5.5 and 6.0 and lots of people around the 339 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,600 world are purchasing the size that they want from him. 340 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:43,600 Oh, wow. 341 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:44,600 Okay. 342 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,040 It comes in different types. 343 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:52,060 Let's say one can be built, rebuilt, you know, just like you rebuilt your piano. 344 00:23:52,060 --> 00:23:57,080 And also, as I introduced you, you are the Steinway piano liaison. 345 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:04,800 So if you want, if you have the financial means, you can build your own original Steinway. 346 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,440 You can custom order a piano that has narrower keys. 347 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,800 Now, I haven't communicated with Steinway in quite a while because I've been very busy 348 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,160 with the festival and there are supply chain issues. 349 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,320 So people should know about that. 350 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,000 Everything has supply chain issues these days and their back orders, even for custom art 351 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,000 case pianos, people have been waiting a year. 352 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,920 I'll get back in touch with them to find out what's going on now. 353 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:36,400 But you know, there are not that many people who can spend 120 or 130 thousand dollars 354 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:42,040 for a piano and the custom orders an additional bit of work and time. 355 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:50,440 So if anybody who is listening to this wants to have a custom built new piano made by Steinway, 356 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:55,980 they should contact me and I will get in touch with the right people and let them know that 357 00:24:55,980 --> 00:24:57,560 there are people interested. 358 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:03,240 I did get when we first let the world know about that on this and our network of people 359 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:09,760 who love small keys, I did get two orders, but both of the orders were people who wanted 360 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:15,300 Spirio pianos, which most people know are like player pianos, digital player pianos. 361 00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:20,120 You can listen to Lang Lang or Horowitz or even Rachmaninoff playing your piano like 362 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:22,940 a ghost and you can record yourself. 363 00:25:22,940 --> 00:25:27,240 But Steinway was not willing to combine the two technologies at once. 364 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,600 They thought, you know, we have to perfect this. 365 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,860 We don't want to put it out until we have it just right. 366 00:25:32,860 --> 00:25:39,120 So innovation takes time in a big company like Steinway that's owned by a billionaire. 367 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:40,440 It's not a simple thing. 368 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:45,340 It's like an electric car that you're asking for a special order before electric cars are 369 00:25:45,340 --> 00:25:47,560 available everywhere. 370 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:53,160 It just goes so much into it and I don't realize. 371 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:54,160 Right. 372 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,080 Then I'm also curious about the history. 373 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,560 Can we talk about the history of piano? 374 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:06,500 Let's say piano, the size of the keys were not this big or fat like this conventional 375 00:26:06,500 --> 00:26:08,240 modern piano, right? 376 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,720 Mozart and Chopin and Beethoven did not play a 6.5 inch octave. 377 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,520 I can't imagine Mozart could have written his operas at age five or six and all those 378 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,840 piano pieces in the way that he did with the big keys that we have today. 379 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,240 Well, everything got bigger. 380 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:24,440 Oh, it's a God. 381 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,120 I could just talk about this for hours. 382 00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:30,480 Let me zero in on the most salient facts, the things that are important. 383 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:36,560 What I learned from the Metropolitan Museum and examining things and talking with the 384 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:42,540 curator and doing some reading, reading books and things, the size of the inch was actually 385 00:26:42,540 --> 00:26:47,460 different in different European countries, which is one of the reasons the metric system 386 00:26:47,460 --> 00:26:48,460 came to be. 387 00:26:48,460 --> 00:26:53,200 Like, you know, I think the inch was either this part of your thumb or some part of your 388 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:59,000 body they called an inch and fingers, bodies, thumbs were a different size in Italy than 389 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,360 they were in Norway or England or Germany. 390 00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:10,120 So the Italian inch was smaller than the inch in Denmark and they had different sizes of 391 00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:15,320 keys because they were measuring in inches and they were also just accommodating their 392 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:16,320 bodies. 393 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:23,920 So as people became more spread out and as industry began to grow and more and more instruments 394 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:30,360 were made in factories and as people like Franz Liszt told the companies, I need a bigger 395 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:35,440 piano, I need more keys, I need a cast iron plate, I need a bigger sound. 396 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:41,000 He was the first person to say, you know, the concert c'est moi, I am the concert and 397 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,040 I need this piano to fit me. 398 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,720 And he was a very large Caucasian man from Hungary. 399 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,400 He was like a rock star before there were rock stars. 400 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:57,600 He traveled all over the place and all of many, many countries in boats and horses and 401 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,140 then trains eventually, you know, the world changed. 402 00:28:01,140 --> 00:28:03,300 So the piano changed. 403 00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:09,160 And by the time the 20th century came around, companies like Steinway said, we just want 404 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:10,920 one size. 405 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,800 However, there were always disruptors to this. 406 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:21,160 There were always people saying, I need smaller keys, including the great Joseph Hoffman, 407 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,000 who was my inspiration when I was a student. 408 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,040 Well Joseph Hoffman was a diminutive pianist. 409 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,040 He was a small man. 410 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:32,300 He was a great composer. 411 00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:33,720 He was a close friend of Rachmaninoff's. 412 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,600 They were alive at the same time. 413 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,320 So you know, there's Joseph Hoffman and here's Sergei Rachmaninoff. 414 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,540 They had different sized hands. 415 00:28:42,540 --> 00:28:48,680 And Steinway built a number of pianos for him that had narrower keys. 416 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,080 I think he was credited to have developed the windshield wiper and other inventions. 417 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,500 He was an inventor. 418 00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:57,240 His name was on many patents with Steinway and Sons. 419 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,680 He was very much a part of the company. 420 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,920 And I believe he used to travel with his pianos. 421 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,900 He had several around the country. 422 00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:09,960 And he could play Rachmaninoff's music with the ease that Rachmaninoff played his own 423 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:10,960 music. 424 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:17,720 I didn't know who he was until one of my teachers said to me towards the end of my being a student, 425 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,240 he said, you know, Hanna, you're playing great. 426 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:20,720 You can play whatever you want now. 427 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,880 I'm proud of you, but your hand is a little small. 428 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,720 Why don't you find a Joseph Hoffman piano? 429 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:32,200 So I called Steinway and I asked them to help me find one. 430 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,760 And it was impossible. 431 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:41,560 Frank Mazzurco, who I adored and who helped me so much, he would send me on this wild 432 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,400 goose chase all over the country. 433 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:44,400 Oh, there's one here. 434 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:45,400 Oh, there's one there. 435 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:50,420 And I would call up and have Ephraim Zimbalist, you know, an actor in California measure the 436 00:29:50,420 --> 00:29:52,040 keys on his Hoffman piano. 437 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,000 But they were all the same size as the conventional keys. 438 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,880 So I kept, you know, like it was taking a lot of time to do this work while I'm teaching 439 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,960 and practicing and performing. 440 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,520 I'm wondering, you know, why is this so difficult? 441 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,840 And eventually I talked to Henry Steinway. 442 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,880 I had to get to the top of the food chain. 443 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,840 And I said, where are the Hoffman pianos? 444 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,320 And he said, oh, we burned all of those after Hoffman died. 445 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,600 We wanted to make sure there was nothing out there. 446 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,440 So we didn't want to have to deal with making this size for this person and that size for 447 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:28,640 that person. 448 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,360 Standardization is what we needed. 449 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,960 I was in such shock when I heard that. 450 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,120 Now I can't remember exactly. 451 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:41,720 I think that might have been why I really wanted to rebuild my piano. 452 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,360 Either that or I had already put it into motion and I knew for sure that it was the right 453 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,160 thing to do to do it myself. 454 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,800 Since then, what a long journey, but you've come this far. 455 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,640 It's like 30 years. 456 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:56,640 Wow. 457 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:57,640 Yes. 458 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:58,640 That's really amazing. 459 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:05,760 Then also there is a group of people or organization, Christopher Donison and David Steinbuehler. 460 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,720 Yes, that's earlier DS. 461 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,940 That's Donison Steinbuehler, DS keyboards. 462 00:31:12,940 --> 00:31:17,480 They started a business together, but Chris Donison is not part of it now. 463 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:22,160 David Steinbuehler kept the name and he has a foundation. 464 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:27,040 The most important thing to know about DS keyboards is that they're a small outfit in 465 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,960 Titusville, Pennsylvania that makes keyboards that are narrower width than the conventional 466 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:32,960 ones. 467 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:39,040 David has helped dozens of people all over the world rebuild their existing instruments 468 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,200 to have narrower keys. 469 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,800 It's really been a very noble effort for so many years. 470 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:49,160 I met them back in the 1990s and I'm just so impressed with how productive they've 471 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:50,320 been. 472 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:55,520 They're not part of the manufacturing industry per se, the piano manufacturing industry. 473 00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,240 They're a small cottage industry and they can build what I last heard is they can build 474 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,200 and install one per month. 475 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,960 So 12 pianos a year, that's not really enough to make the impact that we need for everybody 476 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,000 to know about it, which is why you didn't know about it. 477 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,000 Right. 478 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,000 Of course. 479 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,760 Hey TPP friends and listeners, the PianoPod is in its third season. 480 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:23,480 Thanks to all of you for watching or listening to every episode since its launch in 2020. 481 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:29,240 I started this show with a simple question I had in mind for quite some time, which is 482 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,720 how can we as classical pianists and music educators present the beautiful classical 483 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:39,000 music tradition to the 21st century audience in a fun, contemporary and engaging way? 484 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,080 It's been an incredible journey for the last three years. 485 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:48,880 I love what I do through this podcast, providing a platform for pianists and educators to reflect 486 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:54,480 and discuss freely how we can keep the classical music industry thriving and relevant in this 487 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,800 rapidly changing world. 488 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,680 Now more than ever, I need your support so that I can continue my work by bringing you 489 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:07,800 highly valuable content bi-weekly by interviewing groundbreakers in the industry. 490 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:13,920 Your support will go directly to all the costs of the PianoPod, such as a yearly subscription 491 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:20,320 to the podcast hosting platform, the software I use for high quality recording sessions 492 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:27,400 and tech gear, as well as all the hours I spend researching and audio and video editing. 493 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,080 You can make a one-time donation or monthly pledge by clicking the PayPal link in the 494 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:37,760 show notes or going to TPP's website at thepianopod.com. 495 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,640 As a thank you, you will receive the PianoPod's fun logo sticker in the mail. 496 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:48,840 So please support my show today and don't forget to subscribe, continue listening and 497 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,120 tell your friends and colleagues about the PianoPod. 498 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,420 Let's continue with the episode. 499 00:33:54,420 --> 00:34:01,520 I want to talk about the challenge to make these, the stretch piano known and eventually 500 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:06,040 become, I wouldn't say, but why not mainstream? 501 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,040 Why not? 502 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:15,680 Because I was reading the articles, 75% of pianists say they prefer to have narrow keys. 503 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:16,680 That is insane. 504 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,120 Then there's something wrong with this modern piano, right? 505 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,920 Well, you know, it's useful. 506 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,560 I love all pianos and I play it. 507 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,160 I haven't stopped performing. 508 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:28,920 I've never had any injuries. 509 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:35,100 I don't, you know, I don't hate the big fat keys as I sometimes call them, but you know, 510 00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:40,600 I really enjoy playing my little keys if I'm playing difficult music. 511 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:45,520 What's been like to convince a big company like Steinway to build them? 512 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,520 What was the journey like? 513 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:54,000 Oh, well, I mean, it was fascinating because they were supportive. 514 00:34:54,000 --> 00:35:00,920 They really helped me, but they're afraid of upsetting the industry. 515 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:06,800 You know, I think the electric car is a very good analogy because we don't want to vilify 516 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:12,240 big companies for caring about their stake in business, you know, and it's a complex 517 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:15,360 issue because Steinway is a luxury brand. 518 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:20,000 You know, they are catering to the top 2% of the world and they want to be known as 519 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,640 a luxury brand and they want all of their products to succeed. 520 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:30,600 So on the one hand, Ron Lozby, who has been one of my advisors and who I also adore, he 521 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,320 was a CEO and the president for many years. 522 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,120 He's retired, but he's still related to the company. 523 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,400 I've known him since 2016. 524 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,800 He took my proposals to China, to Germany. 525 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,680 I made a PowerPoint presentation. 526 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,320 I mean, I really did everything that all these presidents asked me to do. 527 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:50,320 I got the patent. 528 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:51,320 I made the presentations. 529 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,880 I got myself on the front page of the paper, whatever. 530 00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:00,160 I did everything I could as an individual, but they just kept telling me, Hannah, you 531 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:01,160 do it. 532 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:02,160 You do it. 533 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:03,160 You do it. 534 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:08,560 And I finally figured out from looking at all of my own literature and my own analysis 535 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:16,040 of the industry that the way in is with performance and that all of us who have pianos and if 536 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:21,280 we can perform on them, you know, there's only so much talking and presenting and graphs 537 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,100 that you can do that the proof is really in the playing. 538 00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:30,760 So if I have my piano in a public space, if I found my own concert hall and, you know, 539 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,160 raise money to have a hall for two or three years and invite as many people as I can of 540 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:41,560 all ages to just sit down and make music, we don't have to have these arguments anymore. 541 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,920 All of us all over the world, we were there, there are 40 to 50 people all over the world 542 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:51,920 on five continents, many of whom have been on our online festival once a year. 543 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,240 We all know this is happening. 544 00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:58,660 It's not something we're waiting for or praying for. 545 00:36:58,660 --> 00:37:00,300 We live with our instruments. 546 00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:01,480 We know the difference. 547 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:02,480 We know the comfort. 548 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,240 We know the joy and the creativity and the expression. 549 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:13,160 We just need to have a little bit more media exposure and have a lot more playing. 550 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:19,360 So that's how I feel the industry will be affected. 551 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:25,000 I am not interested in knocking on people's doors and trying to persuade them of something 552 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,340 that I know in my heart is just wonderful. 553 00:37:29,340 --> 00:37:36,040 So I decided to, you know, take it upon myself to create a space in New York City where people 554 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,920 can come from all over the world and have the experience to play pianos with narrower 555 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,040 keys or have a choice of key size. 556 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,040 Right. 557 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,200 So people with big hands can come and play too. 558 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:47,560 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 559 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:54,440 So you know, it's really the success is within changing people's perspectives and mindset 560 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:55,440 toward it. 561 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:56,440 Right. 562 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:57,440 Yeah. 563 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:03,200 Just like you compared this situation with electric car and how our mindset has changed 564 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,480 and then electric car is more becoming more mainstream. 565 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,240 The only way people could really know that is by experiencing that, not by talking about 566 00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:13,240 it. 567 00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:14,240 Right. 568 00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:19,760 If electric car was just noisy and clunky and horrible and, you know, uncomfortable, 569 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,620 it wouldn't be accepted. 570 00:38:21,620 --> 00:38:24,600 But once and there were a lot of prejudices against electric cars. 571 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,520 The first electric car was introduced in 1890. 572 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,240 You know, that was a long time ago. 573 00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:32,640 Pianos with narrow keys have been around forever. 574 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:38,520 They've never they've never been eliminated and they will continue to be around. 575 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,400 It's just the words you use mainstream. 576 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:42,840 How does that happen? 577 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:48,840 There are a lot of challenges, but I really do believe that new technologies, new materials, 578 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,680 you know, ideas that my colleagues and I have that stem from the experience of playing, 579 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,120 it's all happening right now. 580 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,120 This is exciting. 581 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,040 So speaking of that, so next step in your straddle journey? 582 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:09,040 Well, is I'm raising money if anybody wants to donate an active fundraising page and we'll 583 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:15,160 launch our campaign end of April, beginning of May, knock on wood to, you know, I'd like 584 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:20,200 to raise half a million dollars or more to rent a space in New York City and put my both 585 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:26,280 of my pianos in there and invite people from all over the world to come and play concerts. 586 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,360 So you know, there are two steps right now. 587 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:36,280 I'm looking for a dedicated space that's temporary, either in a university or a gallery or someplace 588 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:42,960 where we can share the piano with an existing space or we'll rent one for the for the festival. 589 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,840 I've had my pianos in recording studios and in churches and other places for years. 590 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:53,400 I've done this to raise awareness and then to really have a dedicated space. 591 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,400 I have to be willing to give up my teaching studio to give up a lot of other things. 592 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,200 I mean, I've given up a lot over my whole career to pursue this because it really is 593 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,200 time consuming. 594 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:06,600 But I'm willing to do that really for the community and for the betterment of other 595 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:12,120 people and also for myself so that I can play concerts on a on a piano that fits me in my 596 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:13,360 town. 597 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:18,600 And hopefully we can have venues like that all over the world and people can tour around 598 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:23,160 in the designated spots and play on pianos that fit them. 599 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:24,700 That's you know, step by step. 600 00:40:24,700 --> 00:40:29,880 We can put a system into place. 601 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:35,400 That concludes the first half of this fun episode of the PianoPod with Hannah Ryman, 602 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:41,080 pioneer and advocate of stretto pianos and creator of the International Stretto Piano 603 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,560 Festival and Stretto Piano Concerts. 604 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:50,400 If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review it wherever you listen to your podcasts. 605 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:54,600 You can also watch this episode on the PianoPod's YouTube channel. 606 00:40:54,600 --> 00:41:00,120 And don't forget to follow the PianoPod on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. 607 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,600 The links are listed in the show notes. 608 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,400 Once again, I'm your host, Yukimisong. 609 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:11,880 Tune in next Tuesday, May 2nd at 8 p.m. Eastern to hear the rest of the interview with Hannah 610 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:25,400 Ryman about stretto pianos.