1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,280 Welcome to the Piano Pod. I'm Yukini Song. I'm Eric Hunter. And I am Clara Jung. Thanks 2 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:22,620 for joining to the very first episode of a podcast. It's a show where three of us invite 3 00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:29,920 a guest speaker each month who is in the fields of piano pedagogy, performing arts, recording, 4 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:37,400 technology, and wellness of piano studios, as well as the mental health of students, parents, 5 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:43,120 and teachers. We're very excited about this opportunity to explore a variety of piano related 6 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,680 topics and share them with you. We already have several exciting guest speakers lined up for the 7 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:54,200 coming months. We can't wait to learn from each guest and discuss the topic with them on this 8 00:00:54,200 --> 00:01:01,040 platform. If you want to find out more about who we are, what we do, and why we started the podcast, 9 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:08,280 please watch our introductory video on our YouTube channel or click on the link listed below. 10 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:18,240 Our first guest is Dr. John Skidmore, who is a psychologist, performance coach, musician, 11 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:25,680 teacher, and author of Conquer Anxiety. He's going to talk to us about his coaching program, 12 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:34,880 the five stages of peak performance. So please join me in welcoming Dr. John Skidmore. Thank you for 13 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:39,520 joining us. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's really just a pleasure and a privilege to be here. 14 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:44,640 And I'm grateful I have a chance to talk about one of my favorite things, and that's really about how 15 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:52,240 we can become better performers. And, you know, it's so exciting to see you as music teachers 16 00:01:52,240 --> 00:02:00,080 taking this topic on. Oftentimes I felt that in the quest for the perfectionism, the perfection 17 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:05,120 that we often find in the performing arts, the understanding of health and mental health is often 18 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:10,240 neglected. And so I really appreciate your commitment to that. And I'm grateful to be here today. 19 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:16,400 Oh, thank you so much. Actually, I had a student who was dealing with this performance anxiety due 20 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:24,640 to his past performance at this piano competition. And I was desperate because I wanted to help him. 21 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:32,480 But I was not being prepared to I was not prepared to help him at all. So I was I went on Google 22 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:38,960 search and happened to come across this article Mastering the Inner Game Three Mind Coaches on 23 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:45,040 Managing Performance Anxiety by Alli Snow. And then she was talking about three different 24 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:52,640 performance coaches and their methods. And one of them was yours. And so I Googled your name, 25 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:59,760 actually, and I found your website and I purchased your book, Conquer Anxiety. And then it was just a 26 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:07,040 mind blowing thing to read. And I quickly wanted to share the information with my colleagues, 27 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:13,920 Eric and Clara. And how do you how do you feel about the book? Oh, we love it. Oh, it's great. 28 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:20,080 Thank you. Yeah, it's just a very practical approach and a very contemporary as well. So we 29 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:28,640 just fell in love. So thank you so much. And so could you introduce yourself to the audience 30 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:35,840 as well as us? What you do? What what is your background in terms of your degree and career? 31 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:43,920 Certainly. I grew up in a musical family like most of us have, and I was grateful for that. 32 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:48,720 And so I got to enjoy piano lessons and trumpet lessons and voice lessons and participate in lots 33 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:53,920 of different musical programs. Through my growing up years, my mom actually had a master's in fine 34 00:03:53,920 --> 00:04:00,320 arts. And so music was a big part of our family. And but no one ever really taught me how to perform. 35 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,640 I had a lot of great experiences. I had a vocal scholarship as I got a bachelor's degree in 36 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:11,280 psychology and performed in lots of different groups. But it wasn't until I was working on a 37 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:16,480 master's degree in counseling and I was also singing with the premier performing choir at 38 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:21,360 Brigham Young University. And it was like, whoa, the stuff I'm learning over here in this counseling 39 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:28,560 program was what I wished I would have understood and known my entire life as a performer. One of 40 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:34,720 the things I love to do is help young performers learn and develop the skills of performing. I 41 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:41,120 wasn't taught that. I was simply told to take a deep breath, practice a lot, just keep doing it, 42 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:45,200 keep trying it, just keep doing it. You'll get better at it and don't be nervous. Don't worry 43 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:50,960 about it. You have nothing to be afraid of. And sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. 44 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:58,480 That's right. Yeah. And so as I continued to develop my understanding of performance, 45 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:03,440 optimal psychology, sports psychology, these kinds of things, more and more interest and 46 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:08,800 intrigue developed in how can I really help people bring their best? I mean, as a performing artist, 47 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,960 we know how much time we spent perfecting and practicing and working and working and working 48 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,360 to get this right. And there's nothing more frustrating than being able to go out there 49 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,920 and we're hoping it's going to show up good and turn out great and it doesn't. 50 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,480 Now, if the performance is actually based in poor preparation, that's just the easiest fix. 51 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:33,760 You just got to practice it. You'll get it. But those aren't the frustrating ones. The frustrating 52 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,760 ones are the ones where we prepared this. We know this, this is a pressure situation. This is an 53 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:43,440 important situation and we don't do what we have prepared. We have, we just, it doesn't show up. 54 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:51,040 We get distracted. We get anxious. We get worried. Suddenly we're not in the flow of things. 55 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:58,720 We're and oh, that is so frustrating. So as I finished my doctoral degree in clinical psychology, 56 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,800 I actually did my dissertation on the experience of peak performance with musicians. 57 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:09,680 And so really got into this quite deeply and found a lot of the key factors of what it really takes 58 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:14,800 to create a peak performance. And there's no question about it. It takes preparation. You've 59 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:20,400 got to have a skill to present. You've got to have something to give. But peak performance is really 60 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:26,080 about the mindset. It's really about putting yourself mentally in a place where you can freely 61 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:33,040 and comfortably and confidently share your gift. And we're not taught very often how to do that. 62 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:41,520 Now, my next step really, when I finished my degree was to develop a class. I've been teaching 63 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:47,200 a class on the psychology of music performance for almost 30 years. And I've had a chance to work 64 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:54,320 with thousands of performers and to really refine and develop my approach to performing. 65 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,360 And what's so exciting about this is I think it really simplifies performing. 66 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,560 See, what I really found as I coached performers and brought the psychological tools and skills 67 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,960 that I've developed as a clinical psychologist, I am a licensed psychologist. I practice in Orem, 68 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:15,360 Utah. I specialize with anxiety disorders. But as I brought all these skills and tools from the 69 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:21,680 psychology world with my experience as a musician and in my teaching role, I've been able to develop 70 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:27,760 and synthesize it into a five-stage process. And I want to emphasize the word process. 71 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,080 See, it's really natural for our young performers to look at a performance as a 72 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:38,480 good event or a bad event, a winning kind of thing, a losing kind of thing. And the younger 73 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:44,240 the performer is, and even sometimes older performers, winning and losing often turns into 74 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:49,680 I'm a winner, I'm a loser. And suddenly that's where a lot of our anxiety starts to come from. 75 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,360 But as we start to look at this idea of performance as a process versus an event, 76 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:03,760 we got to look at these stages. And a simple way to define these five stages is this. First, 77 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:08,080 we start with a vision or goal. We want to perform something. We have an intention here. 78 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:14,240 But not only do we create this vision or goal, we develop an attitude, a mindset to support 79 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:19,520 every part of this goal. See, we want that mindset to be the foundation of the goal. 80 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:26,400 You've seen performers, what's like underneath it all is I hope I do really, really well, 81 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:31,840 and I am scared to death of screwing up. I am scared to death of just having it not turn out 82 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,640 the way it's supposed to. That's at the foundation of their performance. Rather than 83 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:42,560 rather than, okay, I want to design a mindset. I want to be able to say I want to step in there 84 00:08:42,560 --> 00:08:50,240 with confidence, with creativity, with expression, inspiration, power, boldness. And I want to bring 85 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:55,680 that to every part of this process. So that's really what I call stage one. You have your 86 00:08:55,680 --> 00:09:00,480 vision and goal. You understand your personal commitment to why you're doing this, and you're 87 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:08,160 designing your mindset. So there was a student who approached me about the stress and anxiety she 88 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:13,280 was having with her senior recital. She told me this was something she felt like she was not 89 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:19,120 prepared for, and she was just not practicing or getting herself ready for this. And consequently, 90 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:24,640 there was a lot of anxiety. Well, as I asked her these questions that relate to stage one, 91 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,320 what are you doing? Why are you doing this? What's your mindset? It was pretty clear. 92 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,880 She was doing this because they were making her, and she was hating this. And that was reflected 93 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:38,240 in everything she was doing regarding her preparation. Well, it didn't take much of a 94 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:44,240 conversation with her for her to realize that she was the one that chose to get a degree in music, 95 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:50,000 and she had heard about this thing called a senior recital. She knew what it was. And why was she 96 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:56,240 doing this? She loved to teach. She loved to see students grow and progress, and express themselves 97 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,960 musically. This was something that was very exciting to her. At that moment, her energy shifted, 98 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:10,160 and she realized, oh, this is my choice. I'm excited about this. I can let this be part of 99 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:17,920 that process. So she shifted to stage one in a very powerful way, and her senior recital changed 100 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:24,160 in that moment. She'd been preparing for this for a long time. Now, this is stage two. What do we do 101 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:31,120 to prepare musically? What she was not doing was preparing her mindset. She was letting the habit 102 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:38,880 and history, she was letting bad habits just take over mentally. And that was such a such a challenge 103 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,680 for her. And so it was exciting to have her in this class, in this program, as she was learning 104 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:51,360 some very specific skills, mindset skills to support her musical skill set that she was developing. 105 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:57,520 And that became very exciting for her. Now, stage two is really about the mindset and the skill set. 106 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:03,520 There's very specific things that we do as performers. Stage fright actually gets like all 107 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:10,240 the attention, like that's the big issue. But really, it's more complicated than that. It's more 108 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:15,840 about attention, focus and control, attitude management, goals and objectives. There's lots 109 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:23,680 of things that's tied into the skill set and the mindset together. And when we start to combine 110 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:29,280 these two, we really have a very powerful experience. I just recently I had a chance to 111 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:34,320 put out there on a blog, I asked a group of voice teachers what their favorite thing to help students 112 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:39,760 deal with performance anxiety was. And, you know, I heard a response back from somebody, which is 113 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:46,480 such a typical traditional response. Well, I haven't practiced a lot, then I find lots of places for 114 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:51,920 them to perform before they're supposed to perform, and then they perform fine. Well, again, this 115 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:57,440 equation was lacking. What are the mental skills? Where's the visualization? Where's the relaxation 116 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:04,080 skills? Where are the skills to shift a negative attitude into a positive one? See, they're still 117 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:10,080 missing in that equation. And that's, I would just call that the traditional equation. Just 118 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,960 practice a lot and just practice a lot and just keep doing it. And that does work for a fair number 119 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:22,160 of performing artists. It really does. I also see a lot that this doesn't work for. And that's where 120 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:31,200 they really do struggle. So if we go from stage one about the mindset and designing it in 121 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,920 stage two, where we're practicing skillset stuff, we're practicing mindset stuff, we have a whole new 122 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:43,440 toolbox. One of my favorite things to shift from stage two to stage three is a great phrase, 123 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:51,840 my preparation is complete. It's a declaration. See, when you declare that preparation complete, 124 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,160 you've come to that point where you're not going to practice anymore. You're not going to try to 125 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:02,320 adjust, modify anything anymore. My preparation is complete. See, that's the start of stage three, 126 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:07,680 which is all about, this is what I'm going to do to get myself ready to perform. This is what I'm 127 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:12,880 going to do to get myself to be in that place emotionally and musically to share the gift that 128 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:19,840 I've created that I'm ready to share. Well, there's a whole set of skills we can bring into stage 129 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:26,000 three. And most of those are about maintaining the appropriate mindset. And that's where we 130 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:32,800 are at right now. We're at the appropriate mindset, dealing with anxiety, organizing yourself 131 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:39,680 effectively, and just staying in a spot of mental readiness. Well, the performance. There comes a 132 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:46,880 point in time where we start, we actually do this thing we've been preparing. And when you think of 133 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:52,640 the disproportionate number of hours we spend practicing when compared to actually performing, 134 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:59,360 and oh, wow, way out of balance. But yet we need to be able to get out there and really get ourselves 135 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:05,760 in a space where we can share what we've got developed. The characteristics of a peak 136 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,200 performance, I thought this was fascinating as I got into this with my dissertation, 137 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:16,480 they match the characteristics of a child at play in a sandbox. I'm here to play, I'm here to enjoy, 138 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:24,560 I'm here to share, I'm here to express. And what a great place that is. Now, 139 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:33,440 the performance comes and goes very quickly. And typically the vast majority of what we prepared 140 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:38,160 for what we've wanted shows up and we're excited about that. There might be some things that don't 141 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:47,680 go so well. But typically we do pretty well. Now, there are surprises. And I think it's 142 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:53,600 interesting that most of the worst performance ever stories that I hear about are often associated 143 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:58,800 with a surprise of some sort. Something unexpected, something unpredictable, something, 144 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,760 you know, they missed their entrance or this happened or that happened and I reacted poorly 145 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:11,040 to it or didn't know how to react to it. And so to really start to recognize we want to be able 146 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,840 to get into that flow state, we want to be able to step into that and just share freely what we have. 147 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,520 There's a lot of things we can do to help ourselves do that. But again, these are things 148 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:27,680 we're rarely taught. Well, when the performance is over, we have stage five. And stage five is so 149 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:35,440 important. Stage five has the biggest impact on our next performance because what we do, what we 150 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:43,760 say, what we experience post performance is what we remember. And the post performance bashing is 151 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:49,600 just way too common for performing artists. They get so upset about little mistakes here or little 152 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:56,560 problems there. And then they start to take it very personally. I've talked to too many performing 153 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:03,920 artists who have altogether quit performing because of basically what they did to themselves 154 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:08,640 post performance. Now, the exciting thing about these five stages is what they do. 155 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:15,680 And these are outlined in much more detail in my book, Conquer Anxiety, How to Overcome Anxiety 156 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:22,240 and Optimize Your Performance. It shifts the performance from the mid-brains, this is going 157 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:27,840 to be a good or bad thing, and brings it to the frontal cortex where you can say, this is what 158 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,440 worked and this is what didn't and this is what I want to do next time and this is what I learned 159 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:38,640 from this. And this is all part of the experience of being a performer. And as we do that, 160 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:46,080 then we're in a position to move forward. That mid-brain is famous for the phrase, fight or flight. 161 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,960 And it's certainly no fun to fight during a performance. And if we're taking flight and 162 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:55,600 avoiding performing, we're just missing out and so are all those that we could impact. 163 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:03,360 And so by bringing the five stages into the conversation as a student, as a teacher, 164 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:10,560 I like to refer to these as the three promises of the five stages. First and foremost, 165 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:15,600 your eagerness, your interest, your willingness, your excitement about performing 166 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:21,280 is going to be there. You're going to want to be doing this. This is fun. This is enjoyable. 167 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:27,680 You're ready to do this. Secondly, as you're in that kind of mindset and that kind of energy, 168 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:34,160 your quality goes up. You're just performing better. You're doing more of what you want to do 169 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:42,080 out there. And the third element that is just the third promise really is you're enjoying the 170 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:50,000 experience. I've talked to too many performers who have lost the joy in sharing this gift. 171 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,440 I had a student once that described performing as the cruelest form of torture. 172 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:01,120 And she meant that. She was not being sarcastic. She was not joking. This was now a 173 00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:09,040 torturous experience to her. It was very exciting for her to announce. I enjoyed my master class 174 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:14,640 last week. I actually had fun doing this. And that was something that she had lost. 175 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:19,600 And I've talked to others that have talked about, oh, yeah, thanks for reminding me that 176 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,360 performing is supposed to be fun. We're supposed to be able to step out there and enjoy this 177 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:28,880 experience along with our audience, rather than get caught in the fear of being 178 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:36,000 perfect or right or someone going to be happy or disappointed. So the five stages as a tool 179 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,840 demystifies performing. One of the things you can do literally is post-performance, 180 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:47,840 step back and say, okay, what did my experience in stage one look like? How did that work? 181 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:54,320 Most of the time we don't design a mindset to start a performance process or experience. 182 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:59,040 We just expect it to be good and we know we're going to work hard. We're going to practice a lot. 183 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:05,520 But to talk about being creative, to talk about being full of joy or excited, confident, 184 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:12,640 expressive, free, we don't design that at the beginning. Well, we can go into stage two and 185 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:17,760 say, okay, well, what worked about my physical preparation, my musical preparation? What worked 186 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:24,560 about my mental preparation? What didn't? I can't tell you how many times I talked to somebody and 187 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:30,400 said, well, have you practiced the breathing exercises? Oh, I forgot about those. Well, did 188 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:37,920 you do any kind of visualization? No, I didn't do that. So again, to look at the different places 189 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:43,360 where these skills come into play, did you declare your preparation complete? No, I went from the 190 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:50,320 practice room right to the stage. So it's great to be able to look at where these fit. When you 191 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:56,320 stepped out there in your performance, were you able to be there emotionally or mentally? Were 192 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:02,320 you in that flow or were you caught with distractions, with anxiety, with whatever's going on? 193 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:08,080 Okay, what did you do post-performance? Did you do a what worked, what didn't? What am I doing next 194 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:18,320 time? Or did you do the bashing thing? And that's just way too prevalent. And so looking at these 195 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:25,840 five stages as tools to simply elevate where you're at in your performing and to elevate your 196 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:32,400 confidence, to elevate your willingness is really what they do. And it's really quite exciting to 197 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,120 practice this. I have a little workbook called Teaching the Five Stages to Young Performing 198 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:45,360 Artists. And in this workbook, I've got some of the activities that I like to use, because these 199 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:53,360 activities are so important. We rarely practice performing. And we expect a lot of performances, 200 00:20:53,360 --> 00:21:00,320 we kind of gear up for the big performance, but to just practice performing. And we're going to 201 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:06,480 practice performing. And one of my favorite exercises to help students practice performing 202 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:13,440 is singing simple songs, like Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star. But it's not about how they sing 203 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:20,880 the song, it's about the attitude they bring to the experience. And especially in small groups, 204 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:29,120 you can organize all kinds of things to... I'm thinking of pianists, you guys are pianists. 205 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:35,440 Let's say that you had three or four pianists in a room. Well, if you each had one of them take a 206 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:44,640 different type of weather, thunder, rain, wind, lightning, and say, okay, how would you depict 207 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:52,080 this on the piano? How would you play this on the piano? Well, they can do this. Then you start to 208 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:58,880 have them become an ensemble doing this, and they get to play together. Anyway, something like that 209 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:04,320 is almost difficult because it's like, well, what's the right way to do this? They could do 210 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,760 Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star because they know how to do that. There's a right way to do that. 211 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:16,800 But to do something like a storm, they have to commit to this and just play with this. So I have 212 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:22,720 lots of different activities and exciting little exercises that students can do, that teachers can 213 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:29,120 do in groups or individually that really are a lot of fun. One of my favorites is also having 214 00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:34,560 people sing Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star in gibberish. There's not a right way to do that. 215 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:41,840 You have to basically set yourself up to do it. I'm going to be competent in doing this. 216 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:50,000 I was doing a workshop with a group of piano teachers one time, and I watched this. I wish 217 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:55,760 I had this on a video because it would have been so beautiful. But I just simply said, I bet there's 218 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,720 somebody here in this room that could play my favorite song, Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star. 219 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,880 Well, there are 60 teachers in this room, and this wave of anxiety just hit all of them. It's like, 220 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,560 I'm not prepared. Well, somebody finally put their hand in the air. 221 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,480 What was so interesting, as I said, she played just a delightful, simple rendition of Twinkle, 222 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:24,960 Twinkle Little Star. Then I asked her a question, could you elevate that? Could you elevate that? 223 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,720 We did that three or four times, and she went from a simple rendition to a very complex rendition, 224 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:36,240 but it just got more and more amazing. Then something interesting happened. She got 225 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:42,960 self-conscious. She was like, oh, I can't play it that consistent, amazing all the way through. 226 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:48,880 She got nervous about it, and that's where it ended. It was just really a simple exercise of saying, 227 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,920 okay, just do this simply, add something to it, add something to it, add something to it. 228 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,400 It's just another way of, can you be more expressive with it? There's so many different 229 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:05,120 things we can do to help teach performing. As we bring whatever it is we're doing back into the 230 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:09,840 five stages, it really just makes a very simple yet profound difference. 231 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:18,800 This is not just performing arts or musicians, but I think your method can also be applied to, 232 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:28,160 let's say, students who are preparing for exams or speech or job interview, maybe, 233 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:33,760 eventually down the road. Do you think? Absolutely. It's always interesting to 234 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:39,680 watch students in my class come back in and say, I used this to prepare myself for my chemistry 235 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:45,920 test. I did this for my internship application and my internship interview, and it was really 236 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:51,840 helpful. It's really about life as a performance, and there's so many different types of performances 237 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:57,600 we have, whether it's in the role of as a piano teacher or as a father or as a mother, as a 238 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:04,880 mother, as a family member, as a community member. We all have many different levels of gifts and 239 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:10,320 talents that we'd like to share, and to use this as a process to help us improve and to 240 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,840 strengthen what we're sharing is a great thing to do. One thing I really get excited about 241 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:22,640 is when I can see a 12-year-old using these five stages to give a presentation in class, 242 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:28,400 as well as a piano recital, and they now have some tools they can do to manage things. 243 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:36,160 It just opens doors. It opens lots of doors. Thank you, Dr. Skidmore, so much for being with us. 244 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:44,560 Like I said earlier, I read your book, and I just think it's full of so much immensely useful, 245 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:50,560 practical information, and really fills a gap that performing musicians have been needing for 246 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:56,880 a long time. Also, I think all of us could really relate to what you were describing, 247 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,400 that so many of these musicians and performers that you've worked with have experienced. 248 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:10,160 I wanted to ask you, as practicing psychologists, how do you define anxiety in general, 249 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,600 and what is specifically unique about performance anxiety? 250 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:23,520 You know, anxiety in general is a natural response. As we go back into the history of 251 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:29,760 the humankind and our brain and surviving, this mechanism has really become vital to ensure our 252 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:38,240 survival. So the natural state of the body is at rest, is at peace, until activated. That stress 253 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,680 response is activated, and it's really designed for the occasional rattlesnake encounter. There's 254 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:49,840 a danger. It's a clear and present danger. We know this is dangerous. We take immediate action. A 255 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:56,400 flood of superjuice neurochemicals go from head to toe. We are tent-stopped. We're ready to fight. 256 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:03,280 We're ready to run. We bolt away. We're now safe, and then we relax, and we go on enjoying life. 257 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:09,280 Well, so the first distinction I've made between anxiety and performance anxiety is, first off, 258 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:15,440 the sense of physiological activation is virtually the same. The same flood of neurochemicals, 259 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:22,720 the same increase in tension, the same shifts in attention focus. All this stuff is occurring. It's 260 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:30,720 the same response as if it's an actual danger, except it's not. Now, our midbrain, and that's 261 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:36,880 where our anxiety comes from, is fully developed by the time a child is two years old. And so it's 262 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:43,520 learning very quickly what is pleasurable and what is painful. And when people start to associate 263 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:52,800 an audition, a mistake, a disappointment, frustration, even frustration in learning something 264 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,440 and not having mastered it, but yet now they're angry or they're scared or they're worried about 265 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:03,680 that, see, it can activate this stress response as well. So one of the big differences is if you 266 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,840 encounter the rattlesnake, all the energy goes into keeping yourself away from that, and you're 267 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:15,520 now safe, so you relax. But if you have a senior recital coming up, and it's three months away, 268 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,840 and every time you think about it, and every time you're reacting to it, and you go back to that 269 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,720 lesson and it doesn't move the way you want it to, and it's like, oh, I'm getting worried. 270 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:34,000 See, this is just compounding the stress. And so performance anxiety was really based in fear, 271 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:41,920 not danger, a very important distinction to make. An audition, a recital, a masterclass, 272 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:48,960 Carnegie Hall, it's not a dangerous place, it's not a dangerous experience, but yet we're reacting 273 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:55,520 to it as if it is. And so it makes it actually harder to deal with the anxiety of it because 274 00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,400 you just don't run away from it clearly unless people are actually stopping the performance 275 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,680 experience, which is a lot of people have done that. And then they're out of the situation. 276 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,960 They're out of the situation, and they're fine until they get put back into it. 277 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:15,520 Right, right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You brought up the midbrain. I was wondering if 278 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,400 you could talk a little bit more about the different parts of the brain and how they're 279 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:24,560 impacted by anxiety because I found that very interesting. You know, recognizing that our brain 280 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:29,600 is impacted by anxiety is just really, really important. With the technology we have these days, 281 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:34,240 we can actually see what happens when the brain is triggered or activated. That's the word I like to 282 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:42,320 use. We are now activated. And you could say that once we're activated, the midbrain takes over. 283 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,520 And we can actually see where the logical processing centers are up here and the decision 284 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:53,680 making centers and the memory centers and those places where we've learned so many skills, motor 285 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:59,120 skills, they're not as important because the midbrain says, I know what I have to do to survive. 286 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:05,680 And I'm going to go do that right now, fight or flight. See, when someone says, I sat down and 287 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:13,360 my mind went blank, what they're really saying or describing is I got activated. My midbrain took 288 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:20,160 over, and I'm now disconnected from the memories, from information that I would use to play the 289 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:28,000 piano. And I'm accessing all my information about surviving. And yes, the mind can go blank. 290 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:34,720 It's literally, it's almost like it just disconnects. And it's not like they forgot that 291 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:42,800 concerto. It's still in their brain somewhere. It's just not connected to it. And so recognizing 292 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,680 that we have our analyzer, this is how I like to symbolize the brain. We have our analyzer brain, 293 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:53,200 we've got our decider brain, we've got our motor cortex part of the brain where all those fingerings 294 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,680 and all the stuff that we learned to play the piano with, they're stored up here. We have our 295 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,760 memory, it tells us how to direct all that. And then we have that fight or flight center of the 296 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,880 brain. And they really do all work together. But what we want to be able to do is have the brain 297 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:12,000 work together to support a great performance rather than to create interference that starts 298 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:18,080 to get in the way of a great performance. Yeah, totally. One of the most interesting things to 299 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:24,960 me in this section of the book was when you mentioned when the midbrain takes over, it 300 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:32,480 actually cuts off access to the memory portion of the brain, right? So this is why memory slips 301 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:39,840 happen. You just, you actually can't access it. Yeah, it's just not there. So there is an actual 302 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:48,080 physiological reason for that. That's just very kind of cause and effect. So what's the single 303 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:57,360 biggest piece of advice you would give to people struggling with anxiety? First off, you can conquer 304 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:05,280 anxiety. Secondly, if anxiety is conquering you, your world is going to get smaller. Your ability 305 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:11,280 to engage, your willingness to go out there and do things, it gets smaller. And so again, when we 306 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:17,440 face a fear, our world gets bigger. When we run from a fear, our world gets smaller. And so 307 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:24,080 the biggest challenge is don't wait. Start working now. If you're running away from things or you're 308 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:29,200 avoiding things, getting anxious about things, let's learn how to conquer that. Because if you 309 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:36,480 don't, it becomes bigger than you. And suddenly, oh no, I can't go there. That's just too hard. 310 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,760 Oh, I can't go there. That's too scary. And again, we're dealing with fears, not dangers. 311 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,680 And so fears are part of our imagination. They're part of a fantasy we're creating. 312 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,360 And they just get bigger and bigger. That monster gets uglier and meaner and scarier. And it's like, 313 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,720 whoa, that's just going to like, whoa, that's just too scary. I can't go there. 314 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:02,800 But as that gets scarier in our fantasy, it's accompanied with more intense, stronger 315 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:08,720 physiological reactions that make it seem all the more real. And it is real. Anxiety is very real. 316 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:15,520 It can be debilitating. It is so frustrating sometimes. But there really are so many tools 317 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:22,080 and skills that are available to start to, okay, I can conquer this piece. I can move through this. 318 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:27,520 I'm going to turn this into a fantasy and not a danger. And I'm going to deal with this fantasy. 319 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:33,040 And I'm going to break out of this fear and move forward and through it. So it's really about our 320 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:38,480 worlds get smaller or our world gets bigger. And it's all about how we manage our anxiety. 321 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:46,080 Yeah, I think I want to mention at this point that distinction between fear and danger is so 322 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:53,920 critical. It reminded me of, I have a five-year-old son right now who has difficulty sleeping at night 323 00:33:53,920 --> 00:34:02,320 because of these perceived dangers that don't exist. He's paralyzed by his fear, but he's five. 324 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:07,360 And we're trying to help him deal with it. And hopefully he will eventually go out of that. 325 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:14,160 But as adults, we can be paralyzed by these same types of fears. And so 326 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,320 we're trying to move forward and through it. And hopefully he will eventually go out of that. 327 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,160 And hopefully he will eventually go out of that. Because he can't be paralyzed by these same types 328 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:29,600 of fears that will really hold us back as we go through life if we don't develop the tools 329 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:37,600 to deal with them and work through it the way I hope that he will. So thank you so much Dr. Skidmore. 330 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,920 I'm going to turn the interview over to Clara now at this point. 331 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:46,320 since I was three years old and I always have this ongoing interest in psychology. 332 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,920 You know, I was sort of what they would say natural performer, 333 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:54,920 but then, you know, at some point down the road, I have developed some anxiety 334 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,520 and I came out of it and now I teach my students. 335 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:03,920 So for you, as you are a psychologist and a performer, performance coach, 336 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,120 and I know you're also a singer and you help writing your book, 337 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,520 do you ever experience any anxiety yourself? 338 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:17,120 Absolutely. I have a midbrain. I have this amygdala in my brain. 339 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,920 I actually have a question on my final exam. 340 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,520 You can train the stress response out of you. 341 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,120 True or false? The answer is false. 342 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:30,120 Once that's been programmed, once that has been trained to react to certain things, 343 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,520 you have to really, really work with that. 344 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,120 You have to be aware of it. 345 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,720 So, yes, do I experience anxiety? Yes. 346 00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:41,720 But do I have tools and skills to manage it? Yes, I do. 347 00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:46,720 And so one of the things that I'm really, really tuned into is 348 00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:48,520 what happens when you want to run away? 349 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,520 See, avoiding things can become our favorite, whether we know it or not, 350 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,520 strategy to deal with anxiety. 351 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,120 So, yes, anxiety is a part of life. 352 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:03,120 But what's more exciting, what's more important is to recognize 353 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,320 once there is that anxiety there, it's a first response. 354 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,320 And I like to just talk about how our midbrain will give us a first response. 355 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,320 Now, if we're not in danger, this is a fantasy. 356 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,720 This is not to be trusted. 357 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:23,320 And, you know, we have to move through that or that anxiety gets bigger. 358 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,520 And so, yeah, anxiety is part of life. It happens to all of us. 359 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,320 And it's one of the most powerful things to be able to say, 360 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,320 OK, I can break through this now. 361 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,320 I can go do this. 362 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,320 There was a point in time, for example, I live in Utah. 363 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:44,320 I'm hiking around the mountains and my kids got a little too close to the edge of a cliff. 364 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,320 And I was very clear to push them, you know, get them away from that. 365 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,320 We want to be safe. 366 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:57,320 Well, about 10 years later, after we'd been trained, we'd bought equipment. 367 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,320 We had rappelling gear. 368 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,320 All of us were going over that edge. 369 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,320 We were going over that cliff and we were calling it fun. 370 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,320 But we had ropes and harnesses and we knew what we were doing. 371 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,320 We had the equipment. 372 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,320 See, that's the big difference right there is having the equipment 373 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,320 can help us turn something that was scary and dangerous. 374 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,320 So we thought now Cliff has an element of danger to it. 375 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,320 Something to be avoided is something that we can enjoy. 376 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,320 And so, yeah, it's part of life. 377 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,320 Yeah, that's amazing. 378 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,320 Thank you so much. 379 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,320 It's really amazing sometimes when you teach younger students, you know, 380 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,320 you teach them from the very beginning that, you know, 381 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,320 fear is just part of life and they get used to it sometimes. 382 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,320 But how do you help a student when you realize that, you know, 383 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,320 if they have a lot of anxiety and it's coming from, you know, 384 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,320 maybe pressure from their parents, what would you do? 385 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:58,320 You know, this is where you as a teacher have a really amazing opportunity. 386 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:03,320 Because you're helping your students work with the piano 387 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,320 and work with what they're learning in a safe environment. 388 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,320 You're creating a whole different level of safety. 389 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,320 So really one of your first concerns is what you can do to create 390 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:20,320 your piano studio is just the safest place to play with the piano. 391 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:25,320 Play with the piano and to play with the learning of the piano. 392 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,320 So that would be really the first suggestion I'd make is make that an intention. 393 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,320 Make that just a general rule of your studio. 394 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:36,320 This is a no bad zone and no shame zone and no horrible zone. 395 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,320 This is a learning, playful, creative zone. 396 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:47,320 Secondly, you do have a chance to help your students recognize 397 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,320 that some of the things we learn from our families 398 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,320 may not always be the most accurate and correct things. 399 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:59,320 And so again, you're giving them another example of how things can be. 400 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:05,320 One thing you also have to recognize as a teacher is that your student 401 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,320 is bringing with them a set of beliefs and experiences 402 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,320 that really do come from their parents. 403 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,320 And so every once in a while you might want to think about reminding them, 404 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,320 hey, look, I'm not your mom. I'm not your dad. 405 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:26,320 See, we're here to learn and play and figure this out and enjoy this. 406 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,320 And right now your midbrain is activated. 407 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:35,320 And you're the piano teacher. You're not the family therapist. 408 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:40,320 You get to say, let's just focus on calming down that midbrain right now. 409 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,320 And let's get back to the piano and see if we can have some fun with this. 410 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,320 I mean, the one thing I appreciate about piano teachers, musicians in general, 411 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,320 is just how creative you have to be to work with each student. 412 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,320 I mean, you have to really connect with them. You have to be in their world. 413 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:59,320 You have to do everything you know to do. And you do everything you know how to do. 414 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,320 We're just talking about adding to your toolbox right now. 415 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:09,320 And so just creating that safe environment is probably the most important thing you can do, 416 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:15,320 as well as teach tools and skills that they can use in any place or setting. 417 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,320 And then also you'll have a chance to work with the teacher or work with the parents. 418 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,320 That's one of my favorite things to do is to actually do workshops for parents 419 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:30,320 to help them create a more productive perspective of their developing student 420 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,320 and to make sure that they can create a safe place for that as well. 421 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,320 And most parents do. They try really hard to do that. 422 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,320 And they're so committed and so encouraging. 423 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:49,320 So just that sense of safety to learn, to grow, to play, to enjoy something, 424 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:54,320 it's not dangerous. So the recital didn't go the way you wanted it to. 425 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,320 This is to learn from. This isn't to get so bent out of shape. 426 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,320 But sometimes we do that. And so you have to deal with that, too. 427 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,320 That is true. Yeah, that's a great answer. Thank you so much. 428 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:12,320 Yeah, and sometimes I just think about these children, a lot of my students that start with me very young 429 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,320 and they go through half of their life with me. They go into high school. 430 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:21,320 And life sometimes gets a little stressful, as you know, living in New York City, 431 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:27,320 having many activities. Sometimes they are in sports and chess and all that. 432 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:32,320 And there have been times, most of them do quite well on stage. 433 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,320 But once in a while, at a certain point, and that also happened to me, 434 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:41,320 it just comes from nowhere and the anxiety will start. 435 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,320 What do you think the number one fear that people actually normally have? 436 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,320 And why do you think that's happening? 437 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:57,320 You know, at some point, I think in general, the number one fear is that somehow we're not going to be adequate enough, 438 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,320 that we're not going to be good enough, we're not going to be competent enough, 439 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,320 we're not going to be proficient enough. 440 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:10,320 And sometimes that's tied to very specific consequences. 441 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:16,320 You know, as much as we'd like to say the performing arts is a beautiful thing and it's a great thing, and it is, 442 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:22,320 it absolutely is, and we know that students who really benefit from the performing arts, 443 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:27,320 the benefits are lifelong and they're wonderful. 444 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:34,320 But there have been unfortunate situations, whether from parents or peers or sometimes teachers, 445 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,320 where those negative imprints are left. 446 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:46,320 My daughter got a comment from a junior high choir teacher and she sings great, 447 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,320 but she still thinks she doesn't sing very well. 448 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,320 You know, and so we have to be careful. 449 00:42:53,320 --> 00:43:00,320 Sometimes we just have to make apologies and just acknowledge that what we said was either the wrong thing or it was misinterpreted. 450 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:06,320 But it really is about recognizing that we want to do things right and we want to be accepted in what we're doing 451 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,320 and we want to be able to be competent, but we're also learning. 452 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:17,320 Teacher really emphasizes another key point I like to talk about is when we can create a perspective, 453 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:23,320 like in your studio, that the world is about discovery. It's about mastery. 454 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,320 It's about learning to create a positive way to relate to what's going on. 455 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:32,320 Eric mentioned his five-year-old. You know, you talked about the world of a five-year-old. 456 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,320 There's so much to discover. It's so obvious. 457 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:40,320 And they're in the process of mastering all these things. 458 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:45,320 And we want to create an environment and a context that says, let's learn and grow with this. 459 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,320 Let's relate to this in a positive way. 460 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:54,320 And so we have to create an environment, too, that when our students have negative experiences 461 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:59,320 and if they're going to pursue performing, they will have negative performance experiences. 462 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:06,320 But we want to be able to teach them that we can relate to these difficult negative experiences in a discovery context, 463 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:12,320 in a mastery context, in a positive forward-moving context. 464 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:17,320 Now, our midbrain says this is all bad, runaway, fight or flight. This is horrible and terrible. 465 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:22,320 This is why those five stages can be so valuable, because we can start to create a context 466 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,320 that even through difficult experiences, we can move forward through them. 467 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:32,320 And again, that's one of the atmospheres and one of the contexts of your studio that you work to create. 468 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,320 And I know that you do that. You want to create that for your students. 469 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:42,320 And it really is a wonderful thing when it can support them with their challenges. 470 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:47,320 And then you just have to clean it up. I mean, it's like, you know, at negative performance, 471 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:54,320 this is where the five stages can really come into play again, because whether it's anxiety or anxiety to do poorly, 472 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,320 OK, I messed this up. Now I'm anxious. Now I'm more anxious. I'm messing things up more. 473 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:03,320 It can become a really just an avalanche of disaster kinds of things. 474 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:11,320 But when you go back to the five stages, you can identify was the breakdown caused by, you know, stage one, two or three. 475 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:23,320 For example, I had a student. Talk about how she did her debriefing and she she thought she was so ready for this recite or this audition. 476 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,320 And she didn't do very well. She said, let's go to stage one. 477 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,320 And she explained her stage one is like, oh, rock solid. That's that's great. 478 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,320 Stage two. Man, she did everything I would have suggested that she do. 479 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:43,320 She starts talking about stage three. And then she starts talking about being in front of the orchestra director's office. 480 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:51,320 You have 11 other violin players and each one of them could go in and as they went in, could hear what the other person was playing. 481 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:55,320 Totally psyched herself out right there. She listened to five other people play. 482 00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:01,320 And she went into this. I I'm not as good as they are. I'm not as good as they are. I'm not as good as they are. I'm not ready. 483 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:05,320 One of this, one of this. And boy, it showed up. 484 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:12,320 And we identified right there that she had a shift of attention focus. She didn't manage her attention focus or her anxiety. 485 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:17,320 She didn't know how to manage that difficult situation pre performance. 486 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:25,320 You know, in an ideal setting, if that were to occur again, we talked about it. She had a friend sit there in line to let her know what her turn was. 487 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:30,320 She'd be down the hall around the corner with, you know, listening to whatever she wanted to listen to. 488 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:37,320 But she wouldn't be listening to other violin players playing the same piece that she was going to be playing. 489 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:45,320 And so that became a learning experience, which is really one of the great hallmarks of an amazing teacher is that whatever the experience 490 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:52,320 we want to capitalize on, we want to help them learn from this and use this to move forward. 491 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:59,320 It's the difference between having an experience turn into a roadblock versus a stepping stone. 492 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,320 And we want to create stepping stones. But there'll be things we will stumble on. 493 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:08,320 We just want to be able to step over that and get past it rather than turn it into a roadblock. 494 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,320 That's amazing. Thank you so much. Yeah. 495 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:17,320 I mean, it actually brings back a lot of memory from childhood or, you know, early adolescence. 496 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:22,320 And I had this vivid memory of my first onstage anxiety. 497 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,320 You know, I just I guess, you know, when I was younger, I never thought of that. 498 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:32,320 And that was, you know, not the most professionally training in the beginning being in that environment in China. 499 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:38,320 But then I just never got scared until I got into the conservatory when I was 12 or 13. 500 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:43,320 I had this concert where all the pianists are lined up next to each other. 501 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,320 And, you know, we're kind of keeping score for each other. 502 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:52,320 And that was the very first time I really experienced like I have no idea where it came from. 503 00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:57,320 So that and my students, I tried to do completely opposite. 504 00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,320 So most of them were well. 505 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:06,320 But I had to have one student who went to the conservatory for college and he decided to come back after a few years. 506 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:10,320 And, you know, yeah, he said he misses Miss Clara. 507 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:11,320 You know, it was cute. 508 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:17,320 But now he does have this anxiety that I almost see was parallel as and he's at the same age. 509 00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:25,320 So do you have any specific advice for pianists themselves, you know, who are trying to become professionals? 510 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:33,320 You know, the commitment to take on the professional track for anything really is an incredible commitment. 511 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:41,320 And so it's not just about if they're going to be professional, it's not just about their skills at the keyboard. 512 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,320 They've got to have the mindset of a professional. 513 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:47,320 They've got to be able to deal with the pressures of a professional. 514 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:55,320 It's one thing to be a student where you've got a scholarship or you've got mom and dad paying for tuition or something like that. 515 00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:56,320 And suddenly you have a house payment. 516 00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,320 You're going, oh, I've got to make some money. 517 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,320 And I need some more gigs or I need some more whatever I need to do. 518 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:05,320 I've got to get more students. 519 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,320 I've got to do whatever. 520 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:13,320 And so those are additional skills that they're going to need to develop. 521 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:20,320 And so really it's be the skills of developing the mindset of the professional and the skills of the professional, 522 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:27,320 which means they learn how to manage their life, their finances, their relationships, how they, you know, their dog, so to speak. 523 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,320 They learn how to manage everything in their life. So it supports their profession. 524 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:32,320 Right. 525 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:44,320 And really how we cope with stress, disappointment, breakdowns is one of the most important things because they're going to happen. 526 00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:50,320 I mean, disappointments will occur and we've got to be able to roll with those 527 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:58,320 and look and make sure that we're using adaptive, healthy kinds of ways to deal with things versus maladaptive. 528 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:04,320 And so, you know, the student you're talking about, you know, he needs a therapist, he needs a psychologist, 529 00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:15,320 he needs a coach to address those professional skills and to help to help mentor him in that professional track. 530 00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,320 Yep. I got it. That's amazing. Yeah. 531 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:25,320 And, you know, the fact that last time when I saw this happening, he almost refused to perform on Zoom. 532 00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:32,320 And but finally, at last second when he was on, you know, on the screen, he was like, I would just play and he played perfectly. 533 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,320 And we were like, there's nothing to worry about, you know, so it's very interesting. 534 00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:41,320 Thank you so much for all your wonderful answers. And I'm going to pass on the mic to you, Kimi. 535 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:46,320 All right. So I have two questions and that's it. 536 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:56,320 So first one is, just I said at the beginning of this show, I was dealing with a student who has an anxiety issue, 537 00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:05,320 performance anxiety issue because he had a very difficult, poor performance, according to him. 538 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:14,320 So I really I didn't know how to deal with because I wish honestly I knew you when I was a teenager 539 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:23,320 so that you could have helped me to deal with my own issues with my performance and anxiety, but which not wasn't wasn't the case. 540 00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:30,320 You know, my piano teachers, all most of them, like when I was young, they weren't that available for me. 541 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,320 So they were just there to teach me how to play the piano. 542 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:39,320 But in terms of when it comes to performance, they weren't available. 543 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:49,320 So my question is, how do you help a student dealing with a really disappointing performance? 544 00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:54,320 OK, first off, we've got to normalize it. 545 00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:59,320 We get to say these are part of the game. 546 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:07,320 This is what's going to happen. Football players get bruised like that is part of the game. 547 00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:16,320 And so disappointing performances are really a performance that OK, we get to learn from this. 548 00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,320 And that's really the difference right there. 549 00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:25,320 And this is where we look at the five stages again, because that fifth stage, OK, I don't care what the performance is. 550 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:30,320 I don't know. I don't care how disappointing, how bad, how horrible it was. 551 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,320 When you really look at it and say, what was there that worked? 552 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:39,320 There were some elements of it that worked. What didn't work? 553 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:49,320 OK, now I like to specifically use the words work, didn't work, because we don't have the same emotional energy around those words as we do good or bad. 554 00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:55,320 What was good about your performance? What was perfect? What was right? What was wrong? What was bad? 555 00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:59,320 See, those are words that have a whole history of emotional energy behind them. 556 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:07,320 But so the first thing is to start putting their performances into the five stages and saying we have a process that you're a part of. 557 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:12,320 We want to use this entire process to get you to move forward. 558 00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:18,320 And this disappointing performance is just simply part of this process. 559 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:22,320 So what worked? What didn't? What are you going to do next time? 560 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:34,320 One of the most important pieces of debriefing a performance with a young performing artist like this is to find out what they made it mean about them. 561 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:42,320 Yes, you forgot the entrance. Yes, you forgot that whole section. Yes, the fingerings got all twisted up and it sounded bad. Yes. 562 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:49,320 Whatever. Yes, happened. OK. What does this mean? 563 00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:54,320 What did you make this mean? Our brain is truly a meaning making machine. 564 00:53:54,320 --> 00:54:02,320 And so they've labeled this performance and they've labeled themselves in relationship to this performance. 565 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:11,320 And so. OK, now I'm I can't memorize well. OK, now I don't do Chopin anymore. 566 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:20,320 There's there's certain beliefs that they created, and so it's really powerful to look at this and start to say, what are the beliefs? 567 00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:24,320 What are the labels? What are the words you're now using to describe yourself? 568 00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:31,320 Because this happened. I'm so stupid. I'm a failure. I'm just I'm just not a good musician. 569 00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:46,320 Those are powerful, powerful words. I was doing a workshop with the parents of students at a piano studio and I simply asked a great question. 570 00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:52,320 I said, how many of you in this room are singers? And about three quarters of the hands went up. 571 00:54:52,320 --> 00:55:01,320 OK, great. How many of you are non singers? Well, the other quarter just popped into the air like you meet like I am a non singer. Proud of it. Like, no, I don't. 572 00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:06,320 Then I asked a question. I said, non singers, let's let's explore this a little bit. 573 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:11,320 How many of you have vocal cords? They all raise their hand. Surprise. 574 00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:15,320 OK, how many of you have sung Happy Birthday somewhere before? 575 00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:22,320 They all but one raised their hand and the whole room looked at this mom like, well, hold it. 576 00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:26,320 Wait a minute. You're a mom. You don't sing Happy Birthday is like what is up with this? 577 00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,320 Like the whole room was like, like what is going on here? 578 00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:36,320 And she looks and she goes, I mouth the words. OK, tell me the story. 579 00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:41,320 There's a story here. And what did she tell us? 580 00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:46,320 She was a little girl at the birthday party. Her older brother was at the same birthday party. 581 00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:54,320 She was singing Happy Birthday with energy and enthusiasm and whatever she had, she was putting it into it. 582 00:55:54,320 --> 00:56:01,320 Well, he let her know after that experience that somehow she had the world's worst voice. 583 00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:10,320 She should never sing again. However, she however he conveyed that message left that imprint in his in her brain. 584 00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:19,320 And now 30 plus years later, she doesn't sing ever anywhere. 585 00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:23,320 Now, in the context of this workshop, I would not let an opportunity like this pass. 586 00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:30,320 And at some point I said, would you like to sing Happy Birthday to all of us? 587 00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:34,320 Well, this mom, you can imagine the dance her brain was doing. 588 00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:38,320 You know, midbrain saying, no, run away. You don't see you don't sing. Run away. Run away. 589 00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:45,320 And it's like, no, wait a minute. Well, she broke through that and she was able to sing. 590 00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:49,320 What a heroic and what a correct act of courage right here. 591 00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:56,320 She was able to sing a delightful, even on pitch rendition of Happy Birthday. 592 00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:04,320 Well, what she really did was break through an old story that has been constraining her for years and years and years. 593 00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:15,320 And so the real challenge with these negative performance experiences is to help your students rewrite them into a victory statement. 594 00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:22,320 What did you really learn from this? So your first response was, oh, I never want to do that again. 595 00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,320 But what if you could really analyze this and work with this? 596 00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:29,320 And I I do this a lot in my individual coaching. I do this in the book. 597 00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:38,320 I talked about the story that we created about something, the words we're using and to turn this into a victory statement. 598 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:45,320 And it's really amazing to hear some victory statements that sound like I learned I could make mistakes and finish strong. 599 00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:49,320 So that doesn't sound like a worst performance ever, does it? 600 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:56,320 I discovered the importance of having a backup read. I'll never perform without one again. 601 00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:04,320 You know, these are the kinds of things you want to turn those disappointing performances into is the actual victory statements 602 00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:13,320 and get them thinking about the victory in the performance rather than did I hit every note and who did I disappoint? 603 00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,320 Wonderful. Thank you so much. Very helpful. 604 00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:26,320 So speaking of being helpful, so I want to be helpful to my students and I've read your book from the beginning up to the end. 605 00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:38,320 And I try to use some of the information you gave us, including very practical practices in terms of breathing exercises to advices that I can give. 606 00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,320 I got a lot of information out of your book. 607 00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:49,320 However, there are a lot of things to kind of process as a teacher, even just by reading it, 608 00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:58,320 because I have been having a really odd habit habitual thinking as a person, as a performer. 609 00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:06,320 So it's, you know, I have to kind of rewire myself in order for me to process and then give it to my students. 610 00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:21,320 So is there like a program for teacher, not just even the teachers, but I think parents also should be informed how to deal with their own children's performance anxiety. 611 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:28,320 So is there a program for us or webinar or class? 612 00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:32,320 You know, there's a number of things that I'm offering right now that are really helpful in an area. 613 00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:37,320 I appreciate you asking that it starts with individual coaching that's certainly available. 614 00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:41,320 And I've worked with individuals, helping them getting into like scholarship and college auditions. 615 00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:45,320 I've worked people through that process. 616 00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:49,320 I also do a weekly webinar called Conquer Anxiety Now. 617 00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:54,320 And this is something that I run through my clinical psychology practice, which is a great thing. 618 00:59:54,320 --> 01:00:02,320 It's free to all people who want to join that. It's every Thursday morning at 10 a.m. Mountain Standard Time. 619 01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:08,320 And I have a number of musicians who are on that, as well as other people with other different concerns. 620 01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:14,320 And so you can contact me at jon at j-o-n-s-k-i-d-m-o-r-e dot com. 621 01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:20,320 And I can send you the link to that webinar and get more information out to you on that. 622 01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:25,320 Also, as a parent, you bring up parenting. I've written a little workbook on parenting. 623 01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:30,320 I call it the 9 Point Parenting Tune Up. If you're asking, I'll send a copy of that for free, too. 624 01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:34,320 Just to get that out there. I love working with parents. 625 01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:40,320 One of the things that I also do is do workshops with studios. 626 01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:43,320 I do workshops right now a lot online. 627 01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:48,320 And we're talking about putting together a workshop in October. 628 01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:56,320 That'd be a great opportunity for parents and students and teachers to become more acquainted with what I'm doing. 629 01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:01,320 And in October, we're going to be doing an introductory workshop, and that'll just share more ideas. 630 01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:07,320 And it'll also be a gateway to other areas that would be or other workshops, other programs. 631 01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:12,320 It could be of assistance to you as a teacher and with your students. 632 01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:17,320 The date and time is October 11th at four o'clock p.m. 633 01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:23,320 And this is going to be an introductory workshop to conquer anxiety and the five stages of peak performance. 634 01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:39,320 It'll also be an intro to different programs that are more intensive in terms of training and developing how to actually practice and use these tools and skills in our lives, in our studios, in our performing. 635 01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:44,320 Great. So how long is that? It's going to be the webinar? 636 01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:47,320 That's going to be a 90 minute webinar. 637 01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:52,320 There'll be time for some questions and answering that as well. 638 01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:57,320 Thank you so much for this wonderful interview. 639 01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:11,320 We've learned a lot and we really appreciate you taking the time to spread the word of this wonderful, you know, five stages of peak performance. 640 01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:16,320 And yeah, thank you so much, Dr. Skidmore. 641 01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:18,320 You're welcome. I appreciate this opportunity. 642 01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:38,320 It's great to be talking with like minded people who have a commitment to their students who are wanting to help them excel and to move as far as they can with what they're doing and especially to have that commitment to break away from those interfering factors that seem to get in the way that make it more difficult. 643 01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:46,320 And that's really what the five stages are all about. And so I really appreciate your commitment as teachers. And I'm sure your students appreciate that as well. 644 01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:57,320 We want to thank Dr. Skidmore once again for joining our program today and we want to thank our audience for watching or listening to our first episode. 645 01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:06,320 If you enjoyed today's episode, hit the thumbs up button down below and be sure to subscribe to our channel. Please follow us on social media and you can find the links down below. 646 01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:20,320 If you have any feedback for us, you can email us at the PianoPodNYC. That is the Piano, P-O-D-N-Y-C at gmail.com. Or you can leave a comment on this video. 647 01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:36,320 Join us again for another episode of the PianoPod.