1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,240 You're listening to the PianoPod, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry 2 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:16,560 about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century. 3 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,240 Welcome back to another episode of the PianoPod. 4 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:20,800 I am Eric Hunter. 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:22,200 I am Clara Zhang. 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,680 I'm Yukime Song. 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:30,240 Our guest today is Jonathan Ahn, classical pianist, improviser, arranger, and Twitch 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:31,240 streamer. 9 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:38,760 With over 57,000 followers, 2.4 million views, and 3,500 hours of streaming time, Jonathan 10 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:44,880 is ranked in the top 0.1% of all Twitch streamers and is, needless to say, among the world's 11 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:46,720 top Twitch music channels. 12 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,440 Everybody, please welcome Mr. Jonathan Ahn. 13 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:50,440 Yay, welcome. 14 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:51,440 Thank you so much. 15 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:52,440 Thank you for having me. 16 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,720 Some of our audience might not be familiar with Twitch. 17 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,080 And so I wanted to ask you if you could talk about a little bit about what Twitch is and 18 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,680 why you chose it as a platform for what you do. 19 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:04,680 Oh, absolutely. 20 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,280 Oh, well, let's go top level. 21 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:08,440 Absolute top level. 22 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:10,880 What I do is busking on the internet. 23 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,520 That's literally what it is. 24 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,560 It's just busking on the internet. 25 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:19,720 But if you go a little bit into what Twitch is, Twitch is basically an empty space. 26 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:21,520 Much like YouTube, it's an empty space. 27 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,840 You have a channel with your name on it. 28 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,960 And that's just an empty room and you just got to put things in it. 29 00:01:26,960 --> 00:01:30,600 And most people know Twitch as a gaming platform. 30 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,840 They put their gameplay in it because that's the focal point. 31 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,840 That's what people congregate around. 32 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:38,520 And then they start talking about it. 33 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:43,280 But the value add for any streamer, the reason why anybody will continue to come back would 34 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,920 either be because they're good at that thing that they're showing off or that they add 35 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:52,880 commentary or they have to bring something to the table for people to keep coming back. 36 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:54,240 But that's essentially what Twitch is. 37 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,760 It's like interactive television based around interest that you can find. 38 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,040 And you'll find that it's not just gaming and it's also not just music. 39 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:08,440 It's art, it's sculpting, there's people wandering around IRL in real life. 40 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,200 There's people making, I can't even remember what I was saying, there are people animating. 41 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,000 There's all sorts of things that people do. 42 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,480 Cooking, cooking is a big section now, actually. 43 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,800 And there's even some people who sell yachts around the world. 44 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,520 Like they're selling a yacht around the world and you can follow them and they've got amazing 45 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,520 drone cameras and things and you can actually just explore them. 46 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:27,520 Wow. 47 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:28,520 All right. 48 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,960 So I'm starting to get an idea, but just for the sake of comparison. 49 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:38,320 So why do you choose Twitch over something like YouTube or Facebook live streaming, Instagram 50 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:39,320 streaming? 51 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:45,520 Well, the thing about Instagram and things is there's a limited amount of customization 52 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:46,520 at the moment. 53 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,080 So for example, with Twitch, you can literally get this amazing free broadcast software and 54 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,800 actually this will work with YouTube and Facebook as well, but we'll talk about it in a second. 55 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:00,680 So as long as you can harness the power of your PC and this free software, open broadcasting 56 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:07,360 software studio, OBS studio, you will end up being able to present almost anything you 57 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:13,360 want, basically limited by your ability to putting graphics and sound and that's it. 58 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,160 Just the only real limitations. 59 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,280 So Instagram doesn't have quite that flexibility yet. 60 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,040 You have to do work around it. 61 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,040 Facebook has got a very different culture. 62 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:28,800 It's Facebook gaming and the way they do their chat and so on is of course, it's like in 63 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:34,520 comments, like on Facebook posts, which doesn't feel as organic and doesn't flow as easily 64 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,640 to me. 65 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,200 And then Twitch is actually sort of like for YouTube of live streaming. 66 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:47,880 It's quite niche still globally, but it's the big daddy of live streaming websites. 67 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:54,840 And when we ourselves like music are a niche, it's helpful to have a really, really big 68 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,840 platform so that way at least within the big platform, your niche is a bit bigger. 69 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:00,840 Absolutely. 70 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,840 Well that makes sense. 71 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,720 With YouTube, I feel like YouTube is really, really good for polished content because they 72 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,200 give you an engagement stat of how long people watch your videos for. 73 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,840 And depending on the material, of course, like if it's something like music, people just 74 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,960 want to hear the song for two to three minutes and then they're good. 75 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:23,520 But a live stream and especially the sort of things I do, they go for about six or seven 76 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:28,840 hours and I don't know if the last time you watched a seven hour YouTube video. 77 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:32,160 Not recently. 78 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,440 Not recently indeed. 79 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:39,000 So it's for more curated content, I think more polished, more curated content. 80 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,560 Whereas Twitch did some, it's literally things you create in the moment. 81 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:43,560 It's sort of like a cafe. 82 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:44,560 You go to a cafe. 83 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:45,560 Right. 84 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,000 And people can jump in or out anytime. 85 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,000 And they do. 86 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:50,000 Yeah, absolutely. 87 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:56,640 And I actually saw your show or episode or whatever, and it's literally seven, eight 88 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:57,640 hours. 89 00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:58,640 Yeah. 90 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,440 You're streaming, you're performing the entire time. 91 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:07,880 It just goes that long. 92 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,200 That we need to use the restroom. 93 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:10,200 Yeah, but that's it. 94 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,200 What about like lunch? 95 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,920 Yeah, no, you don't. 96 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:16,920 You don't. 97 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:18,520 You have a big old meal before you start. 98 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,480 I mean, there's nothing saying that I can't. 99 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,240 There's nothing saying that you can't. 100 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:27,560 And technically you're supposed to take breaks every two hours and wake up a PRB screen or 101 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:28,560 whatever. 102 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:34,120 I'm very task oriented, so because people in my community have requested songs to be 103 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,640 played and it takes me a good deal of time to work my way around them and build them 104 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:38,640 into arrangements and things. 105 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,640 I guess if I had a tagline, I suppose my stream would be the slowest production stream. 106 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:44,640 No, hang on. 107 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,560 The quickest production stream on Twitch, but the slowest request stream. 108 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,920 Because most people, when you ask them to play a thing, they play the song on their 109 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:54,800 instrument and then it's done. 110 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:55,800 It's gone. 111 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:56,800 And that took about three minutes. 112 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,040 But then for me, they go, can you play this? 113 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,040 And I go, well, not yet. 114 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:06,920 And then I listened to it and I basically transcribe enough notation that I can do the 115 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,000 song in about five to six minutes. 116 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:16,080 And then I loop it into some orchestral or symphonic metal bands or whatever. 117 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:20,080 And of course, because it's a loop and it's sound and it travels through time, we have 118 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,880 to build it layer by layer by layer. 119 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:28,920 And so this entire process takes the better part of 30 to 40 minutes, depending. 120 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,560 But then we can perform usually almost the whole song with a full arrangement and solo 121 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:37,120 over it like it's my own messed up piano concerto, which I really, really have fun doing. 122 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:38,720 Oh, that's fantastic. 123 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:39,720 Yeah. 124 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:45,880 So the thing is then people queue up all these things and I get really like tunnel visioned 125 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:51,800 and I'm just like, I now I'm here on the internet until I finished the queue because people 126 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:53,360 tipped kind of for those. 127 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,040 And so I have to do them. 128 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,600 So the stream only ends when the queue ends. 129 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:58,600 Okay. 130 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:04,120 Well, that takes a lot of dedication for sure. 131 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,040 It's like an unspoken social contract. 132 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,040 Yeah. 133 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:08,080 It's as you know, it's just trust. 134 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,560 So people say, oh, you're offering this and you do this. 135 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:16,280 And then if you don't do the thing, then those people may not support you anymore. 136 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:17,520 So you gotta really. 137 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,120 I mean, you gotta keep them coming back. 138 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:26,800 So basically your show starts and you take a request from the viewer. 139 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:27,800 Correct. 140 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:34,040 And then, you know, you hum the melody and from watching the actual music, whatever, 141 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,960 whoever the artist is made, basically yours is. 142 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,960 It's an arrangement arrangement of the transcription. 143 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:41,960 Yeah. 144 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,360 And then direct transcription, of course. 145 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,840 And you're making your arrangement and then orchestrating like in front of the audience 146 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:49,840 streaming audience. 147 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:50,840 Yeah. 148 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:51,840 You're making, that's amazing. 149 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:52,840 Wow. 150 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,080 It just, it developed on the platform. 151 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:57,080 Because you can't put that anywhere else. 152 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:58,080 You can't put it anywhere. 153 00:07:58,080 --> 00:07:59,080 Like where does it go? 154 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,960 So it's a Twitch specific format. 155 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:06,480 I do more traditional things like tomorrow I'll be doing a more traditional thing. 156 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:13,080 Every two weeks, because of the streaming, I was able to acquire like an old concert 157 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:14,080 grand from Bechstein. 158 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,880 And then I've gone a mess to it a lot. 159 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,720 I've gone and put all these lights in it and I put like a laser strip in it. 160 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:25,120 And so now that's sort of like a quasi, it's not digital at all. 161 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:30,280 It's fully acoustic, but it has digital effects and things tied to every note. 162 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,840 Which I really, yeah, it's so cool. 163 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:33,840 It's so cool. 164 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,840 It's basically my calf of the next 10 years. 165 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,200 But you know how it is your pianist too. 166 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,840 And I do more traditional streams where I sit there and best bang out all sorts of tunes 167 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,560 for about four and a half hours. 168 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:54,280 They used to go really, really long, but it's really, really impossible to maintain a really 169 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:59,120 good quality over seven, eight hours of just piano playing, as you all know. 170 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,040 Yeah, it's so hard. 171 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:03,040 Wow. 172 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,360 So first of all, I think anybody listening probably is already really interested to check 173 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:08,720 out what it looks like, what you do. 174 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,880 So we'll say it again at the end, but can you say your Twitch channel address for the 175 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,240 viewers and then we will put it in the description later. 176 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,240 But what is it? 177 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:26,360 It's www.twitch.tv slash Jonathan Ong, which is J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N-O-N-G. 178 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,520 And there's no spaces or anything here. 179 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:34,720 And I was, when I first made that channel, I, it's really my first social media platform 180 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:39,560 I'm taking very seriously and I didn't know what handle to use. 181 00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:43,200 And actually I didn't really have a lot of time to think about it because I was supposed 182 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,040 to just hop on with a friend and play some stuff. 183 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:53,160 So I literally just plugged in my name, which is, you know, it's a great way to de-anonymize 184 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,240 yourself on the internet. 185 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,480 I'm curious, where did you find the inspiration to do that? 186 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,360 I had a friend who was on Twitch. 187 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,800 I don't know if he's still on now, but he's doing very silly stuff. 188 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:11,560 So I never even thought of, one time he was like, oh, I was seeing you can dance. 189 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:14,080 I'm like, I'm not a dancer, you know? 190 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:20,040 But what inspired you to actually do this big production? 191 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,520 Well we're pianists and pianists are basically homers, right? 192 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,920 We don't, we don't, and you know, you don't get to play with a whole bunch of other people 193 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,880 almost any of the time, unless you do chamber music and things. 194 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,720 And the problem with chamber music, okay, so this can sound probably pretty terrible, 195 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,720 but the problem with doing chamber music and things like that is the more people involved 196 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,440 in your stuff, like the harder it is to get it out there and do. 197 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:49,200 And so I did some collaborative concerts and I found them excessively sort of like difficult 198 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,680 to organise. 199 00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:55,280 And then when you actually do the event, it's also hard to make them financially viable 200 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,560 because now everyone also needs to be paid. 201 00:10:57,560 --> 00:11:02,040 So then everybody basically ends up with dinner money at the end of the thing that supposedly 202 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,040 grossed five figures. 203 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,480 So it's like, okay, this is interesting. 204 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:13,520 But at the same time, there's that thrill of playing with other instruments still, right? 205 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:18,760 So back in the beginning, way before I knew what Twitch was, way before Twitch even existed 206 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:24,000 actually, back then, I think Twitch started in 2011 and it wasn't called Twitch. 207 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,600 It was called Justin.tv because a guy basically streamed his own life and just went around 208 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:29,600 and it took off. 209 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,240 The original live stream pretty much. 210 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:33,680 So that was really cool. 211 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:39,040 But I was doing tertiary education at the time, I was doing a postgrad. 212 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:44,720 And I just realised that all these VSTs and all I wanted at the time was to make really 213 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,360 dramatic orchestral music and play piano along with them or recreate some piano concertos 214 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,800 and play along with them. 215 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,720 And so I bought one string library and then I bought another string library and then I 216 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:56,720 needed to fill in my woodwinds. 217 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:03,040 And before I knew it, I'd spent a completely insane amount of money as a student on a fairly 218 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,680 large collection of VSTs, you know, all these virtual instruments. 219 00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:08,880 It gets addictive, I know what you're talking about. 220 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:09,880 It's horrifying. 221 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,520 It's absolutely horrifying. 222 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:18,240 And then I found Craigslist and Craigslist had all this secondhand stuff, you know, and 223 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,840 so I found like a keytar because I've always wanted to play guitar, but that was never 224 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:23,840 an offer in my lifetime. 225 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:28,400 And you know, when I was growing up, and so I just never did. 226 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,040 And so there was this keytar and I was like, hey, that's kind of cool. 227 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,440 It's like really dorky, but it's also kind of cool. 228 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:35,440 Maybe I should. 229 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,100 And then I just bought it and I had no use for it. 230 00:12:38,100 --> 00:12:41,920 So it just appeared at parties when everyone was drinking and I was playing along and it 231 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,320 appeared in a few friends, YouTube videos and things like that. 232 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,160 And the same thing for my VSTs. 233 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:52,520 They were too limited in scope because I'd only spent the better part of like eight thousand 234 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,360 dollars or something at the time, which is huge. 235 00:12:55,360 --> 00:13:00,360 But in the world of VSTs is not that much, sadly. 236 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,880 So I basically at the time, especially so I had nothing to do with them. 237 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,720 And I tried doing some film composing gigs with friends and they never really went anywhere. 238 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,160 And I said, I didn't know what to do with it. 239 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:17,240 And then I came back here to Australia and just got on with the serious business of surviving 240 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:22,840 in my adult life, you know, day to day music teaching, classical performances, things like 241 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,600 that, all the normal things. 242 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:31,760 And it's only when I appeared on Twitch and I realized that, oh, I can actually maybe 243 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,880 I can use this stuff. 244 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:40,000 The real turning point was when one one particularly good special came out. 245 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,400 I don't have a shopping problem. 246 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,240 It seems highly suspicious. 247 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,360 Oh, dear. 248 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,360 I don't know. 249 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:56,560 How many keyboards are in your background over there? 250 00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:57,560 None. 251 00:13:57,560 --> 00:13:58,560 Yes, none. 252 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:08,040 So for anybody listening, he just eliminated the background. 253 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:14,240 To be honest, most of the stuff that's a used one says that and says that. 254 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:15,240 And that was a present. 255 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,080 And that was like 40 percent off. 256 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,280 And that was like it goes like that. 257 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:22,280 And this was a bonus. 258 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:27,120 We're really not auditing. 259 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:28,120 I bought all these VSTs. 260 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:29,400 I had no use for them. 261 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,720 Twitch came along and then I realized I could actually use them for something and I could 262 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,920 actually do what I wanted to do previously. 263 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,240 And the real flip turning point was when I just bought this loop station and I was like, 264 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,200 I'm going to learn to loop. 265 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,600 And honestly, I don't know if I've learned to loop because I think I'm the only person 266 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,100 I know who's using the loop station in this way. 267 00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:51,480 Usually you loop with eight bars, 16 bars, 32 bars or something, right? 268 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,080 And you groove and you do the thing. 269 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:54,300 And we're classical musicians. 270 00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:58,920 So I find that really hard to jive with because I get bored. 271 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,400 I'm used to things evolving and changing and things. 272 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:02,760 And so what do I end up doing? 273 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:07,140 I make it even potentially more boring by looping you an entire 90 seconds to two minutes 274 00:15:07,140 --> 00:15:11,520 of whatever song it is, which includes verse and chorus structures and bridges and things 275 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:12,520 like that. 276 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,080 The entire structure gets looped. 277 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:21,040 And then I arrange over the top of it layer by layer like a dot matrix printer. 278 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,000 It's a very weird way of using a loop station. 279 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,680 But then I end up with these loops that are essentially fully orchestrated tracks. 280 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:29,680 That's really neat. 281 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:30,680 Yeah, you're right. 282 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,960 I never heard of anybody using a loop station that way, but it does make sense that that's 283 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,640 how we would do it as classical musicians. 284 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:43,760 We like complexity in our structures and in our chord progressions, in our melodies. 285 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,360 It's like constant evolution. 286 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:46,360 Absolutely. 287 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:51,440 I mean, for what it's worth, anybody I've tried to who is in this space, who's like 288 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:56,400 streaming or doing social media, anytime I've tried to explain to anybody what I do, they 289 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,440 go, oh, that's not going to work. 290 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,840 And I go, well, it's working. 291 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:01,840 I'm making a living. 292 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:06,200 And they're like, oh, oh, that's a surprise. 293 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,720 Because technically it's so long for the Internet. 294 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:16,400 So what I found much like in the school playground, except much, much, much bigger and better, 295 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,880 in the world, you can be your own kind of weird and you find enough weirdos who like 296 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:22,800 what you like. 297 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,640 And you don't need that many of them to have something good going. 298 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,880 And that's basically what's happening here, I think. 299 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:29,880 Yeah. 300 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:31,360 And that's the power of the Internet, right? 301 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,640 I mean, don't sell yourself short. 302 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:34,640 Like what you do is amazing. 303 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:35,640 Right. 304 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,160 And you've clearly found a large audience, so it's not that niche. 305 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:45,080 But it is true that, you know, we can reach out internationally, right? 306 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,400 Find people in all diverse pockets of the world that way. 307 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:50,400 Absolutely. 308 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:51,400 Yeah. 309 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,840 It's really it's actually really cool to like going back because I remember this other point 310 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,200 to this massive collection of stuff. 311 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,280 I won't go for a shopping list or anything. 312 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:04,360 But one of the things is that that got hammered into me at school was something about how 313 00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:06,640 you need a social and a physical environment. 314 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,800 You know, this whole thing about a child education and things. 315 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,640 You need to give them a social environment and a physical environment so that they can 316 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:15,640 learn music. 317 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,200 The physical environment, of course, is your instruments and things like that. 318 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:23,240 And the social environment is the encouragement of development of, you know, this particular 319 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:24,240 interest. 320 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,880 And so in some ways, the reason why I was buying these things was actually because I 321 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:34,280 was like, I don't really know how to use them, but I'll never find out if I don't get some. 322 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:35,280 Yeah. 323 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,760 So then I got some, but then I sort of just fell off the cliff and bought all of them. 324 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,760 So sometimes you got to do that. 325 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,080 It's good to have options. 326 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,640 And that's also the creative mind part, right? 327 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,200 Like if you're not so creative, if you're not free with your mind and then we are always 328 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,360 staying with the tradition, it's hard actually to explore. 329 00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:57,680 You know, sometimes that's a very that's yeah, that's a that's not I don't know if it's a 330 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:58,680 creative mind. 331 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:05,120 I think creativity is a thing that gets trained out of us if we, you know, in educational 332 00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:12,200 context, because we are so we're guided so much towards goal oriented things and task 333 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,720 oriented things in the course of our education. 334 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,840 If you're not really lucky, your education becomes purely vocational. 335 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,720 It trains you for a thing. 336 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:27,340 But as musicians, as musicians who go through college, the training really only trains us 337 00:18:27,340 --> 00:18:31,440 to go and do the same thing that our professors do. 338 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,100 Kind of right. 339 00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:37,560 Because that's you can you're you're best able to guide people along things that you 340 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:38,560 know how to do yourself. 341 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:39,560 Absolutely. 342 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,160 I mean, that's their area of expertise. 343 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,400 Yeah, of course. 344 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,840 And so then when we spend all our time focusing on the things that we're trained to do and 345 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:51,880 things, no one's actually going around telling you, hey, you should feel free to go and explore, 346 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,440 especially with classical music. 347 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,440 Oh, yeah. 348 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,360 Oh, this interpretation is wrong. 349 00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:57,760 Oh, these notes are wrong. 350 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,040 Like, you know, this is outside of the of the guidelines and things like that. 351 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:08,580 And so because we become so specialized and so proficient at interpreting things within 352 00:19:08,580 --> 00:19:13,680 our guidelines and things like that, when we try and start making up stuff, improvising, 353 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,120 arranging, messing around with things, it feels like we're doing something wrong. 354 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:19,120 You find that? 355 00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:20,120 Oh, yeah. 356 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:21,680 It took me years to get over that. 357 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:22,680 Oh, yeah. 358 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:23,680 So painful. 359 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:24,680 Yeah. 360 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,800 All the classical musicians, like even the students, our students, right? 361 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:33,680 Like we all teach, it's hard for them to improvise sometimes in the beginning because they're 362 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,880 so used to being told what to do by the score almost. 363 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,120 You know, it's like when you do it outside of the score, you feel like you're being a 364 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:44,120 bad child almost. 365 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:50,000 You know, there's something comforting about about just playing, you know, as faithfully 366 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,040 as possible to the composers and tensions. 367 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,440 It's very comforting because it's actually not fully us, is it? 368 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,960 It's like we're not responsible for these. 369 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,460 Yeah, we're not responsible for this. 370 00:20:00,460 --> 00:20:03,820 This is not actually my heart, my soul, my emotional state. 371 00:20:03,820 --> 00:20:06,520 This is actually me portraying what I think. 372 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,720 And so when you start going out and making your own music, when it's just like, oh, it 373 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,720 all feels weird now. 374 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,520 Yeah, it's a very exposed feeling. 375 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:16,520 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 376 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:23,520 Confetti for your birthday, here we go. 377 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:31,520 Radio com 1G, face of the confetti. 378 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:44,520 Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday dear Confuse, happy birthday 379 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:51,520 to the kid now, happy birthday to you. 380 00:20:51,520 --> 00:21:01,520 You so can count down 364 days, but maybe you don't want to, because you want to enjoy 381 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:02,520 the age you are. 382 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:03,520 Never. 383 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:15,520 Never. 384 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:37,520 Never. 385 00:21:37,520 --> 00:22:04,200 I'm just curious about your experiences in the United States. 386 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:09,840 So how long you've been, were you in California? 387 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,600 I believe you were in California. 388 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,560 Yeah, absolutely. 389 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:18,680 Basically I managed to get into the master's program at USC in 2007. 390 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:26,680 So from about July, August, I went over there and just had a blast actually until March 391 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:27,680 2012. 392 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,920 And that's basically, that's how long it took me to finish my master's and my DMA. 393 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:38,040 Yeah, they just kept funding it fortunately for me because otherwise I could never have 394 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,040 done it. 395 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,760 I'm very grateful for them for that. 396 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,400 So you went to USC Thornton School of Music? 397 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:45,400 Yeah, absolutely. 398 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:46,400 Like Eric. 399 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:47,400 Yep. 400 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:48,400 That's right. 401 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:49,400 We just missed each other matter of fact. 402 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:50,400 Because I graduated 2006. 403 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,400 Oh, so you guys didn't know each other back then. 404 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:52,400 You just met later on. 405 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:53,400 Yeah, I mean, pretty much like I came back to Luz during the summer, but we weren't students 406 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:54,400 at the same time. 407 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,400 And I heard about Eric and his wife. 408 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,400 I heard about Eric and his wife. 409 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,400 I heard about Eric and his wife. 410 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:58,400 I heard about Eric and his wife. 411 00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:59,400 I heard about Eric and his wife. 412 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:00,400 I heard about Eric and his wife. 413 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:01,400 I heard about Eric and his wife. 414 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,160 I heard about Eric and his wife. 415 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,580 And I heard about Eric from other students because he was really well known at that time. 416 00:23:06,580 --> 00:23:07,580 And so... 417 00:23:07,580 --> 00:23:08,580 I'll give their name. 418 00:23:08,580 --> 00:23:11,580 Me and my roommates, we threw a lot of parties. 419 00:23:11,580 --> 00:23:12,580 Oh, wow! 420 00:23:12,580 --> 00:23:15,440 Maybe a bit of notoriety. 421 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:21,800 But when you were in California studying and you were studying like strictly classical 422 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,840 music, like performing arts? 423 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,840 Yeah, I mean, it's a classical piano doctorate, but they're minors. 424 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,320 And so if I could do it over again, actually, I would have gone even more left of field 425 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,680 and done something like a business minor or something like that, because I think all musicians, 426 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,800 in fact, most people these days need to be their own entrepreneurs. 427 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,720 Like you need to be your own business person and freelance. 428 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,200 I used to be really scared of it, but really it's... 429 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,440 I think now it's the way, place to be. 430 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,920 Obviously, I would say that because that's what I'm doing. 431 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:51,920 But... 432 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:52,920 You found success with it. 433 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:53,920 Amazing job. 434 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:54,920 You found a working formula. 435 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,840 Yeah, but at the same time, it would have been handy to have a bit more like structured 436 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,960 grounding instead of just sort of like wildly flailing your way through the landscape. 437 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,560 But what I was studying, the major was classical piano, but the minors were jazz because I've 438 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:13,480 always been interested in jazz and then music education because I figured I was going to 439 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,440 have to try and find a job somewhere. 440 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,000 Although actually that was probably the most useful mine I took. 441 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,400 And music industry, which meant that it wasn't all just classical. 442 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,960 I spent a bunch of time through the music and music industry streams doing a bunch of 443 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,480 other things that were not classical or jazz. 444 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,640 And that meant that I spent a lot of time doing child education. 445 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,520 I actually volunteered in some nursing homes to provide entertainment for them and things 446 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,720 like that and started doing shows for them on a regular basis. 447 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,200 With the music industry stuff, then we had more formal training with mastering and mixing 448 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,200 and things. 449 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,720 And then the music industry actually has an enviable sort of roster of actual industry 450 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,320 professionals who just happen to come into USC and teach. 451 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,240 So I picked up a few good tricks from there. 452 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,040 I also learned that I'm never going to be a really good mastering engineer, but you 453 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,440 know, it's good to know what you want to do, what you don't want to do for the course of 454 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:09,440 the school. 455 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:10,440 That's a highly specialized... 456 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:11,440 It's so specialized. 457 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:18,120 You sit there listening to minute fluctuations in the frequency range and trying to make 458 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:19,120 things sparkle. 459 00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:23,880 And I found that it changed the way I listened to music in a way that, well, it wasn't music 460 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:24,880 anymore, right? 461 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:30,560 So I figured I probably wasn't going to be very good at that. 462 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:37,040 But yeah, technically it was mostly classical piano and anything else that came out of it, 463 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:41,600 most of it was sort of self-directed because I actually, I know why that happened. 464 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:47,200 I was sitting in one of my music education lectures one day and the professor said, who's 465 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,920 going to work in a university? 466 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,920 And literally everybody put up their hand. 467 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:58,640 I was sitting there looking at the 16 people in the room and I was sitting there going, 468 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:04,040 there are many universities across this country alone and there are many rooms like this full 469 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,640 of DMA candidates sticking up their hands going, I'm going to work in a university. 470 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,520 And last time I looked at the job postings for universities, there weren't many posts. 471 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,760 So I was like, crap, I got to find something else. 472 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:16,760 Plan B. 473 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:17,760 Plan B. 474 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:24,120 Although ironically, I did end up working in a university and I only, I had to make a formal 475 00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:28,720 decision as to whether I would do Twitch or uni at some point. 476 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:29,720 Yeah. 477 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,200 I went home and faithfully carried out the traditional path because it's a good path 478 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,120 and there's good things about it. 479 00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:40,400 But I just wanted to go and explore a bit more and enjoy my freedom. 480 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:41,400 Yeah. 481 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:50,000 So, but when you envision yourself, you envisioned yourself when you were young, before you came 482 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:58,440 to the United States, did you think of like doing streaming like you're doing right now? 483 00:26:58,440 --> 00:26:59,440 Or 484 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:00,440 Yeah. 485 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:07,880 So life is basically, you get dealt a hand of cards and you can only play your cards 486 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,280 in each round according to what you know and what you have. 487 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,580 And that's basically, that's what anyone can do. 488 00:27:14,580 --> 00:27:19,600 So you can't like, so I didn't know what live streaming was until I finished my doctor and 489 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,640 until I was here working in schools. 490 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,220 I worked in universities and I worked in primary and public schools and things like that. 491 00:27:26,220 --> 00:27:27,800 These were the best cards I had. 492 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,960 So I played them and I was satisfied with that. 493 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,760 And then Twitch came along and I played that and I didn't know what was going to happen. 494 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,440 It's a bit of a wild card and it's now gone. 495 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:43,000 It's managed to sustain me for two, three years so far and I don't know when it will 496 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,360 run out, if it will run out. 497 00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:46,560 I don't know what will happen next. 498 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:51,600 That was the biggest part about career and freelancing and things that was difficult 499 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,360 to get comfortable with. 500 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:57,120 It's very difficult to get comfortable with. 501 00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:01,240 The days where we actually get a job and we sit in the job forever are totally gone. 502 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,840 And actually in this point, if I sat in a job forever, I don't know if I would like 503 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:10,240 that, I would feel like I'd become part of the world or something like that. 504 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,080 In fact, somebody said that to me when I was finishing my studies. 505 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,200 Both times when I did my bachelor's, I was there for over four years because I was doing 506 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,640 an honours degree. 507 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,240 And then when I went over to USC, I was there for five years as you know. 508 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,280 And in both times, my friends or colleagues or people who were new to the school, they 509 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,840 were like, oh, you're leaving, but you're like part of the furniture. 510 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,400 And something within me, I was like, I don't want to be part of the furniture. 511 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,040 I don't know how I feel about this. 512 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:44,800 And so I feel like I've become more comfortable with a life of sort of change and what you 513 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,480 could possibly call insecurity. 514 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:52,800 But I like to think of it as sort of like potential for more, sometimes less. 515 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,520 You just have to take it as it comes. 516 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,440 It's a big adventure. 517 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,640 It is a big adventure. 518 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,120 And that's part of the game. 519 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:07,800 So while you were in California, did it really influence you to be who you are, where you 520 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:08,800 are right now? 521 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:09,800 Or I mean, absolutely. 522 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,800 Oh, yeah, absolutely. 523 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:12,800 I loved California. 524 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,720 It's just that I was a resident alien for tax purposes and I didn't see any prospect 525 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:18,720 of that changing. 526 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,360 So I thought I better go back home where I had like, you know, citizenship rights and 527 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,880 things like that. 528 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:30,680 And the only way for me to stay in California would have been either to get married, which 529 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:31,680 wasn't happening. 530 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:32,920 I'm still not married. 531 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:40,160 And for all the viewers out there, we have a little bit to it. 532 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,160 Which viewers? 533 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:42,160 That's great. 534 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,160 I understand. 535 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,160 Twitch.tv slash Jonathan Ogg. 536 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:52,720 As I was saying, either to, you know, buy marriage or to work as a lecturer in an institution 537 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,960 and then you wouldn't be able to change jobs or anything. 538 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,240 And that seemed to me so, so difficult. 539 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,840 And so I wanted to go home and just figure myself out. 540 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,400 But California was formative. 541 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:09,800 The degree I got, the degrees I got at USC, I may not be directly applying them, but I 542 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,280 indirectly apply them every day because it becomes part of you. 543 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:23,560 Something that, something that traumatic, something that formative becomes part of you. 544 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,440 All those papers you write and all those things they force you to think about with philosophy 545 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,800 or music education and development and exposure to things and the things that you're supposed 546 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:33,960 to teach children. 547 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,840 And as you live those things by teaching children and other students yourself, then you start 548 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,120 thinking, oh, well, these are things I should apply to myself, which is actually part of 549 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:43,320 the whole thing here. 550 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:50,120 Like I said, the social and physical environment earlier, the needing to grow and to be uncomfortable 551 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:56,800 to sort of like push myself in new directions, trying to just stay out of a rut, essentially. 552 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:57,800 Yeah. 553 00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,640 Cause it's very tempting, isn't it? 554 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,280 I'm the most comfortable on stream when I'm playing a song I've played, like a classical 555 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:09,400 piece of song, a classical piece I've played since I was like 10. 556 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,920 And I just sit there playing fantasy impromptu and just chatting because honestly, that is 557 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,560 so deeply ingrained within me. 558 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,280 I could probably be half a vegetable and I'll just put me on the piano and I'll just do 559 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:22,280 that. 560 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,600 It's the most comfortable I am. 561 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,600 But the challenge of course is to continue growing in some direction. 562 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:35,640 A bit like all the people who we look up to, or I mean, I look up to anyway, anybody who 563 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,400 I've looked up to hasn't really sat there just doing the same thing. 564 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:45,160 They sort of had strived for something and it doesn't necessarily need to be like material 565 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,600 success or anything. 566 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,600 It's just being a better you. 567 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:49,600 Sure. 568 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:50,600 Yeah. 569 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,800 That's, you know, the thing that jumps out to me when you say that is that's been a common 570 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,800 theme on our show with all the guests that we've had on people, you know, some younger, 571 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,240 some older, some quite advanced in their careers doing very well. 572 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,200 Everybody's still looking to grow. 573 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:10,800 And I just feel like that's such a rare quality, but you know, not in professional musicians. 574 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,440 That's one of the great things about what we do. 575 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,640 It forces us to and then eventually over time we come to need that. 576 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:17,640 Absolutely. 577 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,320 Actually, I'd think that I would say that we could extrapolate that further. 578 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,520 I think pretty much any industry where you have people who are sort of, you know, doing 579 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:30,600 quite well in it, it requires adaptability and growth and to to to sort of like point 580 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,080 out even contemporary musicians. 581 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,080 And now I have not. 582 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:38,000 I have only half a leg to stand on with contemporary things because I was a classical musician 583 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:43,280 who literally lived under a classical rock that was about the size of Mount Vesuvius 584 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:44,280 or something. 585 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,280 It was a huge classical rock. 586 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,680 I only ever started listening to to non classical music when I got my own car and realized the 587 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,280 radio tuned to other stations. 588 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,200 And it was that it was almost that bad. 589 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,480 I mean, you know, there was some sanctioned things from the parents, but you know how 590 00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:59,800 far that goes. 591 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,920 And it was like, oh, there's all this other music. 592 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,840 But people like Madonna, for example, who has reinvented themselves multiple, multiple 593 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,680 times over the course of their careers or Kylie Minogue. 594 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,720 And like you think about performing and in music industry, the first thing they teach 595 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,240 you is at some point your career will end, but it's just like when. 596 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:26,600 And for these ladies, for example, they these these they have reinvented themselves so many 597 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,240 times their careers still here. 598 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,960 They're still going. 599 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,720 And that's kind of inspirational. 600 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,800 And you'd find that in many other industries that that's just adaptability. 601 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:37,800 Right. 602 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,120 That ability to reinvent yourself and to stay current. 603 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,600 Prior to Twitch, I was looking at my smartphone and they were talking about how it tracks 604 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:46,600 you and things. 605 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,560 I was like, hmm, I'll put on my tinfoil hat and like, I'm going to get rid of this thing 606 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,520 and I'm going to buy a dumb phone like a Nokia, go back to the good old days where just just 607 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,840 calls and texts and I'll be fine. 608 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,840 And then I was like, I'm happy with being obsolete in this point. 609 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:00,840 I like I'm happy. 610 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,120 It just sort of like just. 611 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,080 I'm going to be teaching, going to be lecturing. 612 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,200 I'm just going to be doing serious classical piano. 613 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,560 I am quite happy here. 614 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,240 I'll just stay here. 615 00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:13,400 And clearly that didn't really happen. 616 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,560 But I think we make a deliberate choice, either consciously or subconsciously, we make a deliberate 617 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:23,360 choice that, yeah, we're tired of keeping up with the new and this is where we are. 618 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,480 And and then that's when we start. 619 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:28,480 That's when we stop growing, really. 620 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,060 That's when we stop growing and then we just start sort of getting into that really well 621 00:34:32,060 --> 00:34:33,640 worn rut. 622 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:39,800 So my challenge to myself usually is to try and stay away from that. 623 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,040 Although I tell you why. 624 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,000 It moves real fast, doesn't it? 625 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,000 It does. 626 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,000 It does. 627 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,000 Yeah. 628 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,000 But yeah, you know, it's a. 629 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,080 I know the feeling that you're talking about. 630 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,680 It's like if you stop moving, you start dying. 631 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,680 You know, absolutely. 632 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,840 That's why all these old sayings you think of that, you know, people just quoted you 633 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,680 as children and you just go and roll your eyes that rolling stone gathers no mosfet. 634 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,000 That's literally what we're doing now. 635 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,480 We're just rolling stones. 636 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,960 And this is actually what you guys are doing with the piano pod, like moving with the times, 637 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,440 taking advantage of the fact that we can now actually talk to other people, find people 638 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,920 who like what we do and explore things like this together. 639 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:22,920 It's actually really cool. 640 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,280 Yeah, we're really enjoying it. 641 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:30,880 Do you encourage other musicians to live stream also? 642 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,920 I mean, right now, you know, it's covid, so everybody is kind of doing live streaming 643 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,880 or recording their own performances. 644 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,320 What do you encourage? 645 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,040 Would you like to encourage younger pianists? 646 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,040 Definitely. 647 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,800 Actually, one of the reasons why my stream was sort of family friendly for a really long 648 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,320 time, I've sort of eased off the word family friendly because it actually excludes people 649 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,280 who don't identify like younger people who don't identify like that. 650 00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:02,880 But it's because I want people to realize that there's things you can do with your music, 651 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,120 that there's more there's more avenues for self expression, that music is something that 652 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:12,960 you should be able to participate in actively as a practicing member, as a practicing musician. 653 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,280 It doesn't have to be Carnegie Hall level classical musicianship. 654 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,000 I myself will probably never perform at Carnegie Hall. 655 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:21,000 I know. 656 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,000 Yeah, really. 657 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,000 To each special. 658 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,000 This is it. 659 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:29,240 The world will change significantly before that happens, I think. 660 00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:34,520 But you know, I mean, it's about showing people that there's different things you can do. 661 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:40,760 There's places you can be that you don't need to be told where and how you can express it. 662 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,760 And Twitch is not even known as a music platform. 663 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,560 Twitch is a gaming platform, technically, or you know, what people people brand it as 664 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:48,560 one. 665 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:49,560 But here I am. 666 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,080 And there's a lot of people like me who are doing the same thing. 667 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,880 And it's a lovely community of people who like to share things. 668 00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:00,320 If I even the main thing I would say is that you cannot you cannot go into any of these 669 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,480 things thinking as a business to begin with. 670 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:11,080 Because I think I didn't turn a meaningful revenue until two years in. 671 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,800 So it was all just hardcore passion. 672 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:20,640 It was like, after work, I'll get home, set up some cameras, set up my microphones, and 673 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:21,640 then I'll go. 674 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,440 And after every stream, I had to pack it away because I was teaching on that instrument 675 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:25,880 the next morning. 676 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,400 And it was just literally like that for over a year. 677 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,960 It's basically you're being your own startup. 678 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,840 And to live streaming is was it was a is a crazy ride. 679 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:43,520 It was the first it was the first thing I'd done where firstly, you can go backwards between 680 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,040 one day and another by like 60 percent. 681 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,500 And then you can just be sitting there in a slump for like months or even a year. 682 00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:54,200 And actually happened to me before I changed my timetable to become more healthy. 683 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,640 And and then I just sort of like threw away like two thirds of my audience and just sat 684 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,760 there because I couldn't come to watch anymore. 685 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,840 And then I was I was like going, oh, OK, so now I can't pay my bills anymore. 686 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,320 You know, that kind of thing. 687 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,760 And so you really need to actually love the medium and sort of like what you're doing 688 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,280 on it, because that's the only thing that's going to keep you going long term. 689 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,440 Like with anything, it's sustainability. 690 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,480 The other thing is like there's lots of ways you can express yourself. 691 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,880 And some people will find that they're better at producing really beautiful things on YouTube. 692 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,760 And then you don't have that stress of constantly sitting there and being tied to your machine 693 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,840 for like ages and ages, ages every single day. 694 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,640 And then you can still get interaction. 695 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,840 That's actually I'm not very good at YouTube, sadly. 696 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,600 I would like to be better at it because these are all complementary things. 697 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,880 So I'm not discouraging people from trying to which one I'm saying is if you try to which 698 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,040 and you find it's not for you, then you should try different platforms. 699 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,040 You should try Instagram. 700 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:51,040 You should try Twitter. 701 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:52,400 You should try YouTube. 702 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:53,560 You should try and find things. 703 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,320 These tools, these platforms are there. 704 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,680 They are currently still pretty democratic. 705 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,000 They're a bit equal. 706 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,040 They allow us all to have a go. 707 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,080 And you should have a go. 708 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:13,640 We should all have a go because we should not settle here for sitting there and waiting 709 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,880 our turn in the established structures. 710 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,320 That's what I think. 711 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:19,520 I'm looking at the time. 712 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,560 I think we need to start wrapping it up. 713 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,880 Is there anything else you guys wanted to get to? 714 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,520 I was going to ask, would you ever consider performing again in the concert setting, like 715 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:34,720 in the concert hall, but you just answered like no Carnegie Hall, you're not interested. 716 00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:37,760 Part of it is because part of it is actually structural. 717 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:42,560 There's so many things I want to do with I'm actually working on some cover albums. 718 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,480 I've released an original album. 719 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:49,160 I'm actually sort of like working on improving those things because everything I believe 720 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,640 very much so in experiential learning and development things. 721 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,720 And I know that the more of these I do, the better I'll get at it and then I'll get my 722 00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:57,400 workflows down and so on. 723 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,120 So I'm just battling my own inertia actually. 724 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:04,320 The reason why I don't cover albums already is because sheer inertia. 725 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:11,200 But like part of that with a classical concert, I don't think I'll do classical concerts anymore. 726 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:16,880 I did work with some people to present series of them before Twitch. 727 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:18,880 But now this is like post Twitch. 728 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,520 This is current Twitch. 729 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:26,280 So it's I no longer have the six hours to practice a program every day. 730 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:27,280 I wouldn't be satisfied. 731 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:28,280 You're performing. 732 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,440 Yeah, because I'm performing different things now. 733 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,880 So I wouldn't be satisfied with the things that I'll bring in the traditional arena. 734 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,040 I think there are other people who are doing that far better than I can now. 735 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:44,720 And I've invested myself in this other thing, which is I don't even know what it is, honestly, 736 00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:47,320 but it's fun and I'm having a blast doing it. 737 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:54,000 So I'm just going to keep going with like a blade of glass wherever we go. 738 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,920 I just had a couple of things that I want to address before we all leave. 739 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:04,560 One thing is that I know you have Asian background and you're from Australia. 740 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,320 You lived in the US. 741 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,760 What is your audience like on Twitch? 742 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,760 Like do you have a huge international? 743 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,760 Yeah, it does change constantly. 744 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:14,760 Yes. 745 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,320 Twitch gives you statistics for every single stream you do. 746 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,200 So basically almost half of it comes from the US. 747 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:30,440 And then the second biggest one is actually France, which is interesting because I don't 748 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:35,480 speak French well at all and I never use it on stream. 749 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:40,640 But Twitch is very big in France and some of the French streamers have come to visit 750 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:41,640 me with their communities. 751 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,240 And so that's why the representation is really high. 752 00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:49,320 And then it's like a big smattering all through Europe and Canada is fairly high too. 753 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:55,080 And then all the way down near the bottom of about seven to nine percent is Australia, 754 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:56,320 despite me being Australian. 755 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:57,760 And that's because of the times I stream. 756 00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,880 I stream at really weird times for Australians. 757 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:00,880 I see. 758 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,000 Yeah, trying to reach the other continents. 759 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:09,000 So do you think Twitch is more popular like in certain parts of the world than others? 760 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,000 Definitely. 761 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:15,720 You're saying there's no in Asia, there's not too many followers at all. 762 00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:16,720 Absolutely. 763 00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:20,200 Twitch is sort of like a neophyte in Asia that they're trying to work on. 764 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,880 And actually in Southeast Asia, like in Oceania, like Australia, New Zealand, it's the main 765 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:25,880 one. 766 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,920 But it's also still doesn't really have brand recognition and penetration yet. 767 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,360 It's still what they will consider an up and comer. 768 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:38,080 So for example, if you lived in Southeast Asia or if you lived in the Middle East or 769 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,440 I think Facebook's actually the place to be. 770 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,120 And I don't know what the stats are for YouTube. 771 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:45,280 Like I said, that's a black hole to me. 772 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,260 I don't even know Facebook and Twitch. 773 00:42:48,260 --> 00:42:52,340 So depending on where you live in the world, where you're listening to this podcast from, 774 00:42:52,340 --> 00:42:55,280 that may impact on what platform you want to be on as well. 775 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,600 But you should just try all of them. 776 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:02,080 And you think there's a big community of like classical musicians or you're the only one 777 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:03,080 right now? 778 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:04,080 Oh, you know what? 779 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:09,160 When I first started, I was the only DMA holder on the platform, but I think there's four 780 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,920 or five people who are taking it pretty seriously. 781 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,760 And then there's like, there's some really crazy CVs on there. 782 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:24,200 There's a man who, Takayoshi, he's actually educated. 783 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:29,560 He's got a degree from the Mozartium of Salzburg and he plays harp and he plays piano and he 784 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,520 says he plays piano badly, but it's a professional level. 785 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,760 And it's all extremely polished. 786 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,320 You can find something you like. 787 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,400 People practice on the platform on Twitch while they're getting ready for their IRL 788 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:41,680 gigs and things like that. 789 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,560 If you like serious classical piano, there's people who focus on that specifically. 790 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:52,400 I used to have, I think the standard just keeps going higher because it's a global thing. 791 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:58,480 So anything that's global, you kind of have to sort of, you know, again, keep adapting. 792 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,680 And so I think I don't even have the only concert grand on the platform. 793 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,320 There's actually two and there may be more in the near future. 794 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,560 So, you know, it just, it keeps moving. 795 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:13,360 And so as the platform keeps developing and the community within it keeps developing, 796 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,000 more and more of this stuff will actually become very normal. 797 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,520 I think I very normal. 798 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:22,720 I'm just sort of like a little bit ahead of the curve on throwing all my money into a 799 00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:25,720 giant technological pit. 800 00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:28,120 It's time for rapid fire questions. 801 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,920 All right, fast enough for this, here we go. 802 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,760 It's a rapid fire. 803 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,880 So you're going to go chop chop chop quickly. 804 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:36,880 All right. 805 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:37,880 Are we ready? 806 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:38,880 The first question. 807 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,400 So what is your favorite food? 808 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:44,400 Fish. 809 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,600 Cats or dog? 810 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:47,600 Dog. 811 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,000 All right. 812 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,560 What is your word to or words to live by? 813 00:44:54,560 --> 00:45:00,360 If you're, if you're, hang on, wait, my mouth got stuck. 814 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,320 Words to live by. 815 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,960 If you're too comfortable, you can't grow. 816 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:12,560 What is the most important quality you look for in people? 817 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:13,560 Just being genuine. 818 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,600 You want them to be genuine. 819 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:20,560 You won't always like who they are, but at least you know who they are. 820 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:21,560 Exactly. 821 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:22,560 Yes. 822 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:27,320 So as opposed to that, what is the worst quality in people you want to stay away from? 823 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,640 Well, clearly like when you can't trust what anything they said, a lack of an ability to 824 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:32,640 trust them. 825 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:33,640 So untrustworthiness. 826 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:34,640 Very cool. 827 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:35,640 All right. 828 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,840 We're going to keep on going. 829 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,440 Name three people who inspire you living or dead. 830 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:46,280 There's a lady called Dr. Sheila Woodward and Dr. Christine Logan. 831 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,720 These are mentors of mine who've really had a massive shape shaping on my career. 832 00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:56,280 And I would say Pablo Casals, although he's just springing to mind because I keep remembering 833 00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,760 this one anecdote where they say, why are you still practicing at the age of 80 something? 834 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,760 And he goes, because I think I'm still getting better. 835 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:04,760 That's a huge one. 836 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:05,760 That's a great one. 837 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:06,760 I love that one. 838 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:07,760 That is really cool. 839 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:08,760 All right. 840 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:15,320 Now being 83 years old, not that so old, which historic figure, composer, or do you want 841 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,880 to learn or take lessons from if she or he were alive? 842 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:26,160 Franz Liszt, because so much of the stuff we do is firecracker technique and stuff like 843 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:27,160 that. 844 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:28,520 He's the man who just married all of them together. 845 00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:29,680 Oh my gosh. 846 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,040 So many people use Franz Liszt. 847 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:37,840 Which historic figure do you want to hang out with at the bar if he or she were alive? 848 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:38,840 Okay. 849 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,520 This one's a bit weird. 850 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,800 The first person that came to mind was George Washington. 851 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:45,800 Cool. 852 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,880 I think it's a more than one dimension, one and a half dimension. 853 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:55,880 I guess you're not going to be eating a lot of corn nuts with his wooden teeth. 854 00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:56,880 That's funny. 855 00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:57,880 Oh no. 856 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:03,160 And the last one, what other instrument would you like to be able to play besides piano? 857 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:04,160 Actually violin. 858 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:05,160 Oh. 859 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:06,160 All right. 860 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:07,160 My turn. 861 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,920 Name one piece in your current playlist. 862 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:16,640 Spirited Away for a Price, which is also known as Chihiro's Waltz by Joe Hisaishi. 863 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:17,720 Okay. 864 00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:21,640 What about a book title you're currently reading? 865 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:25,400 I've just taken delivery of How to Be a Master Negotiator. 866 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:26,400 Okay. 867 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,880 Oh, I heard of that book. 868 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:30,280 This question always annoys people. 869 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:34,560 You only get one song or piece to listen to for the rest of your life. 870 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:35,560 What is it? 871 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:36,560 Muse, Exogenesis, Symphony. 872 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:40,480 It's in three parts, so hopefully that counts. 873 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:41,480 Okay. 874 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,000 We'll take it. 875 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,120 And fill in the blank. 876 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,120 Music is blank. 877 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:48,120 Oh my God. 878 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,440 You just evoked my music philosophy course. 879 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:52,440 Music is organized noise. 880 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:53,440 Organized noise. 881 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:54,440 Yeah. 882 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:55,440 Organized noise. 883 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:56,440 Good one. 884 00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,120 I'm sure you could expand on that for another whole podcast. 885 00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:01,120 That's right. 886 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:02,120 Probably. 887 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:03,120 Next time. 888 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,800 I think that's one of the best things that came out of the doctorate was the ability to 889 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,600 just talk about things for way too long. 890 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,520 Well, we have enjoyed every word. 891 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:13,520 Yes. 892 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:14,520 I've enjoyed being here. 893 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:15,520 Thanks so much, guys. 894 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,800 Thank you, Jonathan, for joining our show today. 895 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,400 And thank you to the audience for tuning in. 896 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:26,360 If you enjoyed today's episode, please read and review on whatever podcasting platform 897 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:27,360 you use. 898 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:33,240 If you are watching it from YouTube, please hit the thumbs up button and be sure to subscribe 899 00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:34,640 to our channel. 900 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:39,120 You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. 901 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,400 The links are in the description below. 902 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:48,760 If you have any feedback for us, please leave it in the comment section or direct messages 903 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,380 via social media. 904 00:48:50,380 --> 00:48:54,560 Or you can also email us at the pianopodnyc at gmail.com. 905 00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,520 Hope to see you all for the next episode of the PianoPod. 906 00:48:58,520 --> 00:48:59,520 Bye, everybody. 907 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:00,520 Bye. 908 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:01,520 Thank you so much, Jonathan. 909 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,520 Thank you. 910 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:16,720 Thank you.