1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,240 You're listening to the Piano Pod, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry 2 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:17,000 about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century. 3 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,360 Welcome back to another episode of the Piano Pod. 4 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:20,920 I am Clara Zhang. 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:22,960 I'm Yukimi Song. 6 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,200 And I am Eric Hunter. 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:31,000 Happy April and a happy Jazz Appreciation Month, fondly known as GEM, everyone. 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:39,980 And do you know GEM was created by John Edward Hasse, curator of the Smithsonian's National 9 00:00:39,980 --> 00:00:46,920 Museum of American History in 2001 to recognize and celebrate the extraordinary heritage and 10 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,800 history of jazz for the entire month of April. 11 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:57,760 GEM is intended to stimulate and encourage people of all ages to learn and listen to 12 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,260 jazz music. 13 00:00:59,260 --> 00:01:05,880 And today we are so excited to be interviewing world-class jazz pianist, composer, recording 14 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:11,640 artist, educator, and my dear friend, Jim Riddle, to celebrate GEM. 15 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:12,640 Welcome, Jim. 16 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,920 Thank you so much. 17 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:16,920 My pleasure. 18 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:17,920 My pleasure to be here. 19 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,720 Thank you so much for being on the show, Jim. 20 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:22,200 This is a long time coming. 21 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:27,400 We have been friends for so many years, and I'm so glad that we have this opportunity 22 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,640 to do this interview professionally. 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,080 And I just want to introduce a little bit of GEM before we officially start. 24 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:41,080 GEM is a busy performing artist based in New York City, performing in major venues such 25 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:48,080 as Blue Note in New York City, Japan, Italy, Jazz Standard, Birdland, and Carnegie Hall. 26 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:54,200 He regularly performs in festivals in America, Europe, Japan, and South America, and has 27 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,360 toured all around the world. 28 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:57,360 All right. 29 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:04,440 So I know you have accomplished so, so much in your career, Jim, but now we get into all 30 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:05,440 these questions. 31 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,080 We are so desperate that we want to ask. 32 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:16,320 So I teach a lot of little kids, and I would like to know, in the very, very beginning, 33 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:22,280 I'm curious, when did you decide to become a jazz musician? 34 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:27,120 Was that the instinct in the childhood, or you just woke up one day, it's like, I'm going 35 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:28,120 to be a jazz guy. 36 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,720 What is it like? 37 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,720 Yeah, it's a very good question. 38 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:41,200 When I was, I don't know, like eight or 10 or something in that age period, I think it 39 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:47,120 was through a few recordings that my father had, my brother had. 40 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:48,480 Oh wow. 41 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:49,640 But not very much. 42 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:55,040 I mean, I was listening to pop radio and things that my older siblings were listening to, 43 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,080 pop and rock. 44 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,200 And there was a few jazz recordings. 45 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:07,560 I think André Previn, the great conductor pianist, but he was also a fantastic jazz 46 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,400 pianist, had a recording by him. 47 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:19,280 Anyway, I was interested in music, and I was playing by ear, no real study. 48 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:20,760 So you have perfect pitch. 49 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:21,760 I see. 50 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,120 No, no, I wish I did. 51 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:30,800 But just, you know, kind of when you imitate and you copy something that you hear. 52 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:36,200 So I was interested in music from when I was a little kid, and I was inspired by my oldest 53 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,760 brother who composed a piece for his concert band in high school. 54 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:45,760 And so I was mesmerized by what he did. 55 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:55,040 And then, so I continued just playing and I did take some lessons from Sister Rebecca 56 00:03:55,040 --> 00:04:00,780 at the parochial school, and I quit after a couple of years. 57 00:04:00,780 --> 00:04:03,680 My father wasn't very happy, but I kept playing. 58 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:10,660 So anyway, it leads to I became more and more interested in jazz as an early teenager. 59 00:04:10,660 --> 00:04:18,640 And then it's amazing what teachers do, because I grew up in Dickinson, North Dakota, a very 60 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,920 small rural town. 61 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:29,520 And my father had heard this pianist play with a guitar player at this local restaurant 62 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,340 bar, and he really loved what they played. 63 00:04:32,340 --> 00:04:38,040 And so he asked, his name is Keith Drakware, and he asked Keith, he said, Hey, my son is, 64 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,120 you know, interested in jazz, would you be willing to teach him? 65 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,840 And he and he said, Well, sure. 66 00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:47,920 And so he set up a lesson. 67 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:49,380 And I was 15 years old. 68 00:04:49,380 --> 00:04:56,780 So when I first first heard him play, I go, that's how I want to play. 69 00:04:56,780 --> 00:04:57,920 That's what I want to do. 70 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,040 It was it was an immediate moment in that way. 71 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,200 I mean, there was music before that. 72 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,100 And then that changed my life. 73 00:05:05,100 --> 00:05:10,240 And I studied with him and he turned me on to, you know, Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea, 74 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:16,160 Herbie Hancock, Bill Evans, Miles Davis, etc. 75 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,640 Stride players, ragtime, country music. 76 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,000 And so it started me from there. 77 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,480 That was my path all these years later. 78 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,200 It'll be my whole life. 79 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:29,200 Right. 80 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:37,160 Yeah, so the influence of this teacher, Keith, and we're still in contact is that he's a 81 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,040 fantastic musician and he just retired. 82 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:47,720 He taught like high school band and stuff for concert band, etc. for many, many years. 83 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:48,720 But it's great. 84 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:49,720 We're still in contact. 85 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,400 That is just so amazing, you know, especially for younger students. 86 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:58,440 I think that, you know, their child or childhood teachers really sometimes mean so much, you 87 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:06,520 know, it's, yeah, it cuts us into a place that we, you know, we just have that imagination. 88 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:16,480 And also when you mentioned you were studying at a sister, what do you mean, sister? 89 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,120 It was a Catholic grade school. 90 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:21,120 So that's really cool. 91 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,360 Even the Catholic nun, they are teaching jazz? 92 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:25,360 Is that? 93 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:26,680 Well, no, this wasn't jazz. 94 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:27,680 I mean, I see. 95 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,520 Yeah, no, it was no jazz. 96 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,480 It was just fundamental piano. 97 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:34,480 I got it. 98 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,040 You know, so yeah, and well, they're still cool. 99 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:39,600 We're teaching piano. 100 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,080 Yes, of course. 101 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:42,080 Yeah. 102 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:43,880 Wow, that is so beautiful. 103 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:44,880 Thank you for sharing that. 104 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:45,880 I had no idea. 105 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,880 I didn't know, you know, but I know we all start somewhere. 106 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,880 And so we have so many questions, but I just have. 107 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,880 Can I ask a question? 108 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:55,880 Sure. 109 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:56,880 Go ahead. 110 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:01,320 Thanks, because the story of how you started out seems to be kind of familiar. 111 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:07,040 I feel like a lot of jazz pianists start in the same way where they get kind of traditional 112 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:12,240 piano lessons from a teacher and then they might lose interest a little bit and go off 113 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,720 on their own for a while because for whatever reasons, I don't want to put words in your 114 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:16,720 mouth or anything. 115 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,840 But I feel like oftentimes it's because they are not allowed to express themselves creatively 116 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,280 or they haven't found the sound that they're looking for. 117 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:29,920 And then 15, you know, you're already a teenager and that was kind of like your aha moment. 118 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,240 And I'm just wondering, is there anything easier? 119 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,280 It seems like you had to kind of wander for a while. 120 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,320 Actually, this was the case with Mike Grande also, who was on our show, and he's a rock 121 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,360 musician, but it took him until he was about that age to find somebody that really clicked 122 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,200 with him. 123 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,480 Can we teach younger kids jazz from an earlier age? 124 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,600 Or is it just by definition going to be this kind of wandering path before you get into 125 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:55,600 it? 126 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,080 Well, it's a good question. 127 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:05,560 I think it's very different now than when I was 15, which is many, many years ago, because 128 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:10,840 these days you have the accessibility to the music. 129 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:11,840 It's worldwide. 130 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:19,640 I mean, it was accessible to me in 1974, something like that. 131 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,800 I mean, it's so music gets everywhere all over the world, but the accessibility now 132 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:31,200 through the internet in particular, and, you know, YouTube and then all the literature, 133 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:39,560 there's a million books about jazz theory, about jazz instruction, about how to play, 134 00:08:39,560 --> 00:08:41,120 who to listen to. 135 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,240 There's just a wealth of things. 136 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:50,000 So for, and I've heard this, you know, like on YouTube, when you hear like the little prodigies 137 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:58,100 of playing not only classical music and bluegrass and things like this, but there's like amazingly 138 00:08:58,100 --> 00:09:05,040 talented, you know, even 10 year olds that are playing very sophisticated stuff. 139 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,960 Obviously, they have a very tuned in ear, I think quite immediately. 140 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:20,120 Of course, yes, you can get into, I think, the mechanics of the music much earlier, but 141 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:26,760 still it's about the listening, you know, because the recordings, especially in jazz 142 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:36,080 music, the recordings teach us the music both, you know, directly, but kind of in the air 143 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,080 because you're listening. 144 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,920 And because for me, I'll elaborate on this a little bit. 145 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:46,920 One of my early heroes was Oscar Peterson, who you've probably heard of because he's 146 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,340 one of the great jazz pianists of the 20th century into the 21st century. 147 00:09:51,340 --> 00:09:54,040 And I wore this one record out. 148 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,360 And so I was very influenced by him. 149 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:01,320 It's still in my playing, but that was through that recording. 150 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:10,280 And so, you know, 15, it clicked for me, but certainly, yeah, I didn't know until then 151 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:11,900 what I was going to do. 152 00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:15,080 But music was with me since I was five. 153 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:16,480 I know that for a fact. 154 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,360 So it kind of took me further. 155 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:20,600 Excuse me. 156 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:21,600 So yeah. 157 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:22,600 Yeah. 158 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:28,160 So would you say that in a way jazz education starts with listening then? 159 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:34,420 Because I think one important distinction to make between jazz and classical is in jazz, 160 00:10:34,420 --> 00:10:36,600 the reference is the recording. 161 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,760 It's the album, right? 162 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:43,880 With classical music, you know, for Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, composers like that, they 163 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,960 didn't have recording technology, obviously. 164 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:47,760 So our reference is the score. 165 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:48,760 Yeah. 166 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,300 But I would ask you guys. 167 00:10:51,300 --> 00:11:00,760 So as you were coming up and learning, like who like say, Mozart piano concerto, and you 168 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,160 go, well, who's your favorite player? 169 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:04,440 Right plays it. 170 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:05,800 Who's your favorite recording? 171 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:10,160 You probably all have that relationship to them. 172 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,320 Or I'm asking that that's makes sense. 173 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:13,320 Right? 174 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:14,320 Right. 175 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:15,320 Of course. 176 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:16,320 Yeah, definitely. 177 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:23,400 Because then for me, you know, the the sound of Oscar Peterson got my playing, Herbie 178 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:29,520 Hancock, Chick Corea, Keith Jarrett, all those things that are very important influences 179 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:30,520 to shape. 180 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:38,320 Well, first of all, to gain a vocabulary of ideas and use literally steal them if they 181 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,520 were on the score. 182 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,600 We're all essentially doing the same thing. 183 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:47,960 We're taking the music and then we try and personalize it in our own way. 184 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:52,240 So you know, all those players are in are in me. 185 00:11:52,240 --> 00:12:00,120 But then also Vladimir Horowitz, my hero, you know, the Rubenstein, Claudio Rao. 186 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:05,640 I mean, just just Martha, Martha, Agri, Grich, Agri, etc. 187 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,040 I mean, anybody who plays great, right. 188 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:10,040 And is soulful. 189 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:14,360 I go, I'm in, you know, so. 190 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:19,360 Throughout the history of jazz, you know, it went through so many different styles. 191 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,120 How did you how do you define jazz? 192 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,100 Or what does jazz mean to you? 193 00:12:24,100 --> 00:12:25,560 You know, I would like to know. 194 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:29,520 Yeah, it's not I guess it's not quite a simple answer. 195 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:37,200 But it's a while being the age that I am, it's it's a way of living. 196 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,040 I mean, just do 20 years old. 197 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,160 You and Gabby always look so young, you know, times three. 198 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,160 Right. 199 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:46,160 OK. 200 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,600 But it's you know, it's a it's a way of living. 201 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,400 Just I'm only saying that because I've been in it for so long. 202 00:12:54,400 --> 00:13:01,160 But it's it's one of the freest forms of music to express yourself. 203 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:10,520 And and I've been always attracted by the feel of the music, you know, how how the music 204 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:16,280 moves, but also how it makes me move inside of myself. 205 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:20,800 And at times, even physically, it's just I love the groove of the music and the feel 206 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:21,800 of the music. 207 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:28,720 I mean, it's and of course, that's not only relegated to jazz, but it's it's that. 208 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:37,880 And then the the the sense of improvisation that it is an improvisation based music. 209 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:47,040 Yet it there's a lot of structure to it that is important to convey, you know, as a teacher, 210 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:53,200 but also to people who are listening, who want to get into the music, who are either 211 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,840 musicians or non musicians about how it's built. 212 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:04,320 Yes, of course, it's very, very complex, but the structures are very, very simple. 213 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:05,320 Very, very simple. 214 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:12,800 And so that anyway, there's a lot of room and you can be a misfit. 215 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:17,980 Maybe you don't fit in in certain ways, I think, because the music it's over a hundred 216 00:14:17,980 --> 00:14:18,980 years old. 217 00:14:18,980 --> 00:14:19,980 Right. 218 00:14:19,980 --> 00:14:25,080 And it's encompasses so many styles of music from all over the world. 219 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:26,640 Yes, yes. 220 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,520 You know, and it and it continues. 221 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:35,200 So that's what I think is very, very beautiful about the art form and more and more, you 222 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:36,320 know, classical. 223 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:43,680 I like this aspect of how things are evolving, that classical and jazz musicians are really 224 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,040 starting to become much right. 225 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,040 Yeah. 226 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:49,040 Integrated. 227 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:57,560 Yes, there is like there's a terrific pianist named Dan Tepper, who's a fantastic jazz pianist, 228 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,120 but an incredible improviser with Bach. 229 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:06,220 You know, I don't do those things, but I can take something and build something. 230 00:15:06,220 --> 00:15:08,360 But you know, great. 231 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:13,840 Brad Meldow, fantastic, you know, certainly classical player. 232 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:20,200 Keith Jarrett, you know, a great classical musician as well, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock. 233 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,120 They all had their roots, but they continued them over the course of their careers. 234 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:31,880 So anyway, it's so so it's. 235 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:37,120 I mean, it's a it's a very good place for me to exist in, quote unquote, jazz, but it 236 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:44,640 covers so much it's you know, that that it's it's hard to define just one particular way. 237 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,640 But thank you. 238 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,680 Yes, that's beautiful. 239 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,540 So I have several questions. 240 00:15:52,540 --> 00:15:59,400 So I saw your video clip of several videos actually on YouTube. 241 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:04,880 And then one in particular I really loved was Blues is Free. 242 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,480 It says in the description, it says 12 bars with no set melody. 243 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,200 So were you basically improvising? 244 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:14,200 Yes. 245 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:15,200 Oh, wow. 246 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,200 Yes. 247 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:22,240 But so the first 12 bar is kind of the theme. 248 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,240 Is that what it is? 249 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:30,040 Well, the the the thing about the blues is that in the tradition of it, it's 12 measures 250 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,480 long and it that's the form. 251 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,560 Like it's then you start over. 252 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:37,560 I didn't know. 253 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:45,240 No, you keep cycling that particular chord progression and it's built on one, four or 254 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:53,880 five, you know, the tonic dominant subdominant, you know, and that's the classic. 255 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,100 That's the classic form. 256 00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:57,200 I can play it for you if you want. 257 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,200 Yes, that would be great. 258 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:28,080 One, two, three, four. 259 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,240 That's the top. 260 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,000 So I didn't play any melody. 261 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,840 But that was just a copying rhythm. 262 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:37,840 Right. 263 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:38,840 Right. 264 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:43,560 And so one, four, one, five, four, one. 265 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:49,640 That's the traditional the traditional blues. 266 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:55,280 And then with the more of the jazz influence would be this. 267 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:56,280 There's still 12 bars. 268 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,280 And it's in the key of C. 269 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:34,880 So. 270 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:44,560 All right. 271 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:55,640 I feel like. 272 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,360 I'm back in the bar again in the jazz club. 273 00:18:58,520 --> 00:18:59,840 Yeah, I wish I was too. 274 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:01,200 We all have to wait. 275 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:08,640 But it's you still hear the the, you know, the landing places of going to the four 276 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:15,160 chord, the five chord, but there's passing chords that are leading in from C that 277 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,720 lead up to F seven that lead back to C. 278 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:23,720 And then there's these passing chords, you know, but that's the jazz influence of, 279 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,960 you know, harmonies coming in. 280 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,200 But the important thing is it's still 12 measures long. 281 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,080 That never ever varies. 282 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,240 No, I can't. 283 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:39,040 So like, if you think of you're looking at a clock and it goes 12, one, two, three, 284 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,920 four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, one, two. 285 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:49,120 It's always this cycle and you have to count and you can't lose your place. 286 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:51,080 But that's, that's all it is. 287 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,200 I mean, it's a it's a particular number of measures. 288 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,040 It's well, of course, it's more than that. 289 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,840 But the math part of it is 12 bars. 290 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,640 There's a few other different forms where there's an eight bar blues and things like 291 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:09,680 that. But this is the traditional, you know, sound. 292 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,920 The first one I played in particular, but yeah. 293 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,440 Right. I mean, so I totally enjoy the blues is free. 294 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:22,960 So for those who are listening or watching, I'll make sure to put this YouTube link in 295 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,120 a description so you can watch it as well. 296 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,520 But so can I talk a little more about it? 297 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,320 Just just on that particular performance. 298 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,520 Yes, there was no melody here. 299 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,280 I didn't play any melody either. 300 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,600 You know, I was just playing the chords. 301 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:45,920 But so in that sense, it's very, very open in that I can create a melody. 302 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,200 And and then come back to that later. 303 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,520 But it's it's a form. 304 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:59,520 It's a form for expression, I guess, maybe in the sense of like a like a classical 305 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:05,400 music, like maybe a canon or something like that, where it's this recurring or a 306 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,440 passacaglia, where it's this recurring bass movement that. 307 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,760 Just keep cycling like Pachelbel's canon. 308 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,000 You know, it's very improvisatory in a way after the initial theme. 309 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,360 So it would be like this. 310 00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:23,920 It's it just is it. 311 00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:30,600 So in that sense with jazz, it's very rigid, you know, and there's no stretching of the 312 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,800 time. It's very constant where you're in the middle of the song. 313 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:40,960 It's constant where I one of the things I love about classical music is when you look 314 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,880 at a score, a symphonic score, you go, OK, well, it's in four, four, for instance. 315 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:52,160 But then you you follow the score with the interpretation of the music and it's got 316 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:59,880 these nice stretches and little pauses and jazz music in this sense does not do that. 317 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:06,000 It's always about the groove, keeping good time, good tempo, not slowing down, not 318 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,360 rushing. So it interesting. 319 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:10,800 We learn from each other. 320 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:17,000 I would say. But I just wanted to say thank you so much for that wonderful demonstration 321 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,880 because that really just cleared up so much for me. 322 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:26,360 You know, I know when people start learning jazz, like taking jazz lessons, always start 323 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:32,000 with the 12 bar blues. Right. And and I always wondered, well, how do you get, though, 324 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,520 from 12 bar blues to jazz, which you just showed us? 325 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,840 That's amazing. You know, like because the blues is clearly the blues and then jazz, 326 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:46,920 it's a different language. But you can hear the overlap like the structure is the same, 327 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:52,840 that, you know, same 12 bars, same root chords. 328 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:58,320 Right. But then once you have the jazz version, of course, now we have extended harmonies, 329 00:22:58,440 --> 00:22:59,960 right. Nice 11th, 13th. 330 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,880 Right. You're doing more kind of stuff jumping around the register. 331 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:05,760 Right. Like kind of up and down. 332 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:12,680 Whereas the first version was much more steady in the same place, more rhythmic complexity. 333 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,880 And you just right there in like two minutes, you showed us the evolution of one style 334 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,360 into the other and how they're connected. 335 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:20,480 It's just really wonderful. 336 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:21,720 Thank you. Yeah. 337 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:28,000 Oh, you're welcome. And I I also want to emphasize that, you know, the blues is 338 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,640 is the four it was happening before jazz. 339 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,120 But that's jazz grew out of the blues. Exactly. 340 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:41,920 And of course, influenced by, you know, European harmonies and and things like that, 341 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,320 that that extended, you know, the art form. 342 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:52,000 But I want to say a couple of the things about improvising now. 343 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:59,480 So with the blues, there's the blues scale and there's two ways of approaching improvisation. 344 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:07,920 So you can do like a horizontal improvisation, meaning like with the blues scale, it's six notes. 345 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:13,680 I can take that scale and I can play that those six notes in whatever way I want 346 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,320 over the 12 bars. Right. 347 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,280 Over C7, F7, G7. 348 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:28,400 Now, in the vertical sense, I can look at each chord individually and go, here's the C7. 349 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,680 I can play multiple things that address only that chord. 350 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,400 Then when it goes to F7, I'm going to do the same thing. 351 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,000 I'll go qualities of F7, qualities of G7. 352 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:47,280 Mm hmm. So I'll play it for you. 353 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,120 Yeah, I was going to say, could you demonstrate a little bit? 354 00:24:49,120 --> 00:25:12,960 So the blue notes are. 355 00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:46,960 Mm hmm. 356 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:52,320 Okay, so now now I'll play addressing each chord. 357 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:44,880 Mm hmm. 358 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,840 Yay. Thank you. Thank you so much. 359 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:54,320 Okay, so I see. So in the first version, basically, you're only using the notes of the blue, 360 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,040 the blues scale. Am I correct? That's correct. 361 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,040 Right. And then the second version is much more chromatic and you basically have access 362 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:07,520 to any scale that fits the chord. Yeah. Yeah. And actually, all 12 notes are 363 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:13,120 available, but that's that's putting the cart a little bit too far down the road 364 00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:21,440 before the horse. But the thing is, what's important to remember with improvisation 365 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:28,560 when you're addressing the chords, if I only address the third of the chord, the major third 366 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:38,080 of C, F and G, then immediately you're getting a sense of what the harmony is. Is it major or minor? 367 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:46,560 Right. So, you know. 368 00:27:46,560 --> 00:28:16,160 And even if I don't use a bass note, there's no bass note, but it was a describing of the harmony. 369 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:22,960 So that's that in that sense. And of course, blues players like BB King, of course, they would 370 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:29,280 go in and out of this. But in jazz, it's all of a sudden we can utilize the modes, the mixolydian 371 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:36,560 mode, the diminished scale, the altered diminished scale, et cetera, et cetera. You know, a lot of 372 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:45,440 more things are available. But the beauty of, you know, the blues, it's like your your the blue 373 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:51,680 scales, like you're floating over the top. You know, you kind of can't make a mistake with those six 374 00:28:51,680 --> 00:29:01,200 notes. Right. It's great. But more sophisticated, not to sound that can sound a little bit derogatory. 375 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:11,280 No, it's just more expression, a larger vocabulary of expression. So. Right. Okay, that clears some 376 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:16,480 stuff up. Thank you. Yeah. So I feel like in classical music, you kind of have the black and 377 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:23,840 white of major and minor up until about, I don't know, Debussy or something. Right. And it's very 378 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,640 clearly major or minor. Yes, there's like, you know, modal mixture. But those are really the 379 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:35,360 two anchoring forces until we get to 20th century music. And then and then in blues, I think like 380 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:41,200 one of the defining characteristics is you have both kind of at the same time. Right. And 381 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:46,560 what you were doing just now, I was like, Oh, yeah, it's interesting when you really anchor 382 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:52,800 that major third, then it immediately sounds less bluesy to me. And I think your instincts as a jazz 383 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:58,160 and blues player, like, like you kept sneaking that minor third in there as well. Right. Yeah, 384 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:05,360 yeah. True. True. And then and then when you get to more what we think of as jazz, right, then 385 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:11,120 all these different scales come in. And like you said, greater vocabulary, much wider color, 386 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:17,200 palette. So there's less of this kind of duality of major and minor, right? Yeah, it well it becomes 387 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:25,440 it's all true, but it becomes a mix and it becomes actually quite personal to the player. 388 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:32,000 You know, like, like with Oscar Peterson, like virtuoso, unbelievable technique, but very blues 389 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:39,600 oriented, a lot of that minor third, flat five, flat seven. I mean, he he always had that in the 390 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:48,160 mix quite often. But you'll hear an element of the blues in practically any jazz musician play. But 391 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:55,920 but then somebody like Keith Jarrett, who's got a great sense of the blues and gospel, but 392 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:02,480 he'll go like it all of a sudden is a very, very different language and utilizing 393 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:12,160 much more than Oscar did, you know, but it's still it's, you know, it's still very, very personal, 394 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:19,840 but they're still playing on the same chord changes, the same form, you know, but then again, 395 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:28,080 then on top of that is the touch of the individual pianist and, and how they assemble their chords, 396 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:36,000 how they move them. I mean, it's, but it, it's, it's true. I mean, it's just that and in classical 397 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:45,360 music, such a wealth of amazing harmonic things. Yes, but especially when it when it started to get 398 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:53,840 in to the 20th century, well, late 19th century, but especially 20th century WC and then of course, 399 00:31:53,840 --> 00:32:02,000 Stravinsky and Schoenberg and 12 tone and all kinds of things. I mean, everything is open now, 400 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:24,640 I mean, has been for a long time. And so, and playing outside of the key, for instance, 401 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:52,960 right. So, and one thing I learned from Dave Liebman, the great saxophonist who 402 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,600 played with Miles Davis and Elvin Jones, who played with John Coltrane, 403 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:03,280 and who played with the great musicians of that time. And he was a great musician. He was a great 404 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:12,160 composer. And he was a great musician. And his very serious lineage in history was that his, 405 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:22,160 he had just a great concept about, you know, like cadences, you know, tension and release, and where 406 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:28,800 Oh, I'm off again, you know, you can go and of course, classical music, we learned that from 407 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:36,000 classical music of the tension, and then coming back home, and then going away again. Right. If 408 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:44,960 it's only always away, well, that's much more avant garde, which I love too. But the best avant 409 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:54,800 garde players, my mind, are the ones who have a sense of cadence and resolution. Otherwise, 410 00:33:54,800 --> 00:34:01,600 it's just kind of like, well, I'm not getting some I'm not getting enough from it. I like some sense 411 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,840 of form. But yeah, it's got to be anchored in something, right? Yes. Yes. And I think that's 412 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:14,160 plus I think it's very much more musically riveting for the listener to go, oh, and it's like, wow, 413 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,880 how did they get back there? Oh, wow, where'd they go? Oh, they're back again, you know, 414 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,800 dramatic, makes it more dramatic. So, right. 415 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,400 This concludes part one of our interview with Jim Riddle. 416 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:43,920 Tune in next time for more of Jim's insights and amazing improv demonstrations. 417 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,920 Thank you.