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You are listening to the PianoPod, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry

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about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century.

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Last time we spoke to Jim Riddle about how he became a jazz pianist, early jazz education,

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and 12-bar blues form.

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And now, the conclusion.

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So I have a technical question.

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So it's so envious to watch you guys, jazz players, because that's your language.

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You jump in with your language.

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As opposed to classical musicians, we borrow someone's composition.

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Then eventually, after so many hours of practicing that piece, same piece, then that becomes

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my language.

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It's a different kind of artistic outlet.

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But fundamentally, we're pianists.

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So there are so many things that we share.

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For example, technical exercises.

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We also have to practice harmonic progressions.

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All the harmonic progressions in Western classical music to jazz is different, but there's the

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exercises we have to do in rhythm.

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So could you tell us what kind of technical practice you do as a jazz pianist?

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It's my own personal thing.

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I think after playing for so many years, I don't have a specific...

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I have a little bit of a routine, but I don't go through all the scales, major and minor.

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I did when I was studying more so in college and those kinds of things.

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So I first want to say that my technique is very much is what I gained from classical

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teaching.

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So yes, we share so much in that sense.

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But I play a couple of ideas here.

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I play a lot of original music, meaning by people in the jazz community, if I'm playing

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with a particular group or a recording, I have to learn their music and the arrangement.

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Also, I have to be able to improvise on that particular chord progression.

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And the more difficult it gets, the more I have to practice and I have to go, I need

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some kind of anchor of ideas because this is very challenging.

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I'm not so used to it.

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So technically, I will have to go, I have to find some things that just aren't my normal

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thing.

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So technically, I'll need to practice literally some of the scales where I go, oh, at least

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I have something to say by playing such and such a scale.

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That's very much kind of in the moment of an original piece of music that I have to

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learn.

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So therefore, that's my technique is being utilized in that way.

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But in a more fundamental sense, I'll sit down at the piano.

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Well, let me see.

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Let me see what happens.

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Let me just demonstrate some of the things I do.

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Let me just demonstrate some of the things I do.

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I tend to go there.

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I'll totally admit, and this is recorded, I'm like hanging in C, F and G, but then I

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did C and the key of E at the same time.

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Which was, I like that because it's actually the same fingering.

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It makes it kind of easy, but I like the sound.

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So that also opens up my harmonic mind.

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Yet I'm still practicing the fundamental fingerings of that.

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And then I would get into some other things of a six note scale and then the full seven

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note scale and things like that.

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I'll also do some harmonic things like this.

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So, with this, I started to get into something.

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I mean, this whole thing, very classical in a way.

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It's just that I'm going in six.

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Now in my left hand, I'm improvising as I kind of warm up and as I practice in my left

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hand, I can go anywhere I want.

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So I built Québec left hand, I went under five notes.

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...

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...

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...

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...

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...

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...

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...

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Those are things I just will start improvising like that,

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but I tend to go to the same spot in a way,

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same area, and then it warms me up,

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and the more I kind of stay with it,

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then I'll feel more comfortable to like kind of break out

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of that kind of key area, maybe move it up a half step,

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which is more difficult, because maybe I'm not playing

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in that area so often, but the same idea,

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maybe same rhythmic idea.

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It kind of gets, I start to feel more warm in my arms

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and in my hands, and you know what it's like

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when you're a little bit cold, it doesn't flow

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as much, but that helps me.

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If that, you gave me, that's helpful to your...

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Very much, and you know what?

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I am going to tell my students today that how important

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learning to play scales and chords.

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I am going to do it today.

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Because this maestro Jim Riddle told me so.

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Thank you so much.

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It's really such a great, great, great improv

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that you showed us, so it's wonderful.

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Thank you.

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Well, you're welcome, and also it wasn't particularly

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like linear, like say a wonderful saxophone line,

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you know, like you associate with jazz is to me

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from the horn players, trumpet, you know,

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saxophone, trombone.

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This is, you know, idiomatic in a way to our instrument,

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a piano, where, you know, we have the orchestra,

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and so we can play orchestrally like this,

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you can dig in on some chords.

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In some ways, I don't know, I'd have to analyze it,

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what was I playing?

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Well, I'm not so sure, but another idea of improvising

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but warming up, so my right hand stayed with these kind

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of three inversions of a major triad.

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Ba-dum, ba-dum, ba-dum.

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So this thing, my right hand is kind of static,

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but then it gives my left hand room to go some different places,

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and it's 12-tone, I don't care.

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I can go wherever I want, but then I could reverse it,

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keep the left hand more static, kind of an ostinato

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kind of thing, and then open up with my right hand.

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So it's kind of free that way, but I'm still accomplishing

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the thing of opening up my harmonic mind, I'm warming up a bit,

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and I'm getting into some technical stuff that maybe

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it will lead me to some new things, you know,

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that I haven't played before, which is important

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as an improvising artist, you know, so.

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Jim, will you take me as a student?

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I mean, you know, during the pandemic, I've tried, you know,

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this online teaching thing, and it was on demand.

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I was trying to learn how to improv better with jazz,

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he was a jazz pianist, but it didn't go well,

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because it's on demand, it's not live, and also,

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you're an amazing teacher as well, you know,

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so I want to learn from you.

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Sure. I mean, I think I would also say that, I mean,

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as you guys are performers and teachers, and so, you know,

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there's, we're giving access to our students to, you know,

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help them along, you know, but I think in some ways,

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maybe like with what I just showed, it's a little more

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unconventional way of improvising, but I think it's all

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about just being loose, like I'm not a classical musician,

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but some of this was classical technique, I would say,

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but you hear that in Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto

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from one of my favorite, the third or fourth,

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whatever it is, you know, and also like in Chopin

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and stuff like that, where I take it and I kind of go off

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for a while, so, you know, that can be incorporated into,

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you know, one's own teaching, one's own practice, so.

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Okay, I have exactly two more questions,

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but they're kind of big ones.

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I know we're running short on time, but Jim,

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you just really inspired me with your demonstration,

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and my first question is, I feel like we've been talking

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about a lot of high-level stuff.

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Now, the three of us are all teachers of young children,

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and so what I'm wondering is how do we demonstrate some

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of these concepts at that level, you know,

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for kids who are just starting out?

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You know, I feel like whenever I've talked to jazzers

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about how do you get started learning jazz, of course,

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they say the recordings, but they always throw

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like this big book at me, too, you know, like, oh yeah,

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go check out this book, and then I look at it,

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and I was like, oh boy, this is really thick,

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and certainly you can't give that to like an eight-year-old,

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so how would you approach that?

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I would, it's a great question, and I'll be upfront.

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I don't teach little kids, I mean,

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and I don't teach like way beginner adults.

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I mean, they kind of have to,

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that's just been my preference in my way,

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because I don't think that I would be,

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the fundamentals have to be addressed like really,

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really well, and I might be a little spotty with that.

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So anyway.

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Fair enough.

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But this is what I can say with kids.

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If you do a call and answer, dee-duh, dee-duh,

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dee-dee-dee-duh, dee-dee-dee-duh,

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you know, if you do singing, but if you go.

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Sorry, I don't have perfect pitch.

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You know, where you're not even going, oh, it's this chord,

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it's this modality, it's this tonality, it's just,

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you're going, no, repeat after me, you know,

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and then you get into this back and forth,

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and then you go, oh, like maybe the first,

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if you're doing like a Mozart or Beethoven or some,

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whatever fundamental piece, and it's a major harmonic thing,

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but maybe in the melody it has a major third to the tonic,

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and you go, oh, hey, that's in the little Mozart,

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that's in the Mozart piece or the Beethoven or the Bach.

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Right.

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And so therefore they're just going, oh, yeah,

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it's that interval, okay, but we're not going to swing

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the eighth notes, but you could do call and answer,

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not swinging it.

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Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, you know, and they go bop, bop, bop, bop, bop.

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They start to get a sense of their ear,

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a sense of time, you know, and the feel of it,

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the exchange, the tempo, and in that sense,

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I think you can lead into jazz because that's where it started.

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You know, the call and answer in the fields of the, you know,

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of the black Americans, you know, starting in slavery.

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I mean, it comes from a very, very deep place,

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but that comes from Africa.

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And so it's like, you know, all of that and then whatever.

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I mean, we have all these resources, but it was like, it's this verbal,

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I think our verbal exchange, singing exchange,

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but you can do it on the instrument.

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And I don't know.

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And maybe you guys are already doing that,

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but I think it's a great way to lead into, you know, kind of,

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oh, here's the inside of, oh, I never realized that was like a major triad.

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And I think that's a great way to connect this kind of intellectual

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or a little more academic thing to it.

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Because at some point they will need to know like what they're playing.

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And especially with jazz, because it just doesn't fall from the sky.

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That is not true about this music.

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Everybody works their tail off at it,

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just like they do in every style of music.

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But inside the structure, it's very free.

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Right.

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So you know, everybody has to put their time in with theory, with technique,

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tons of listening, tons of imitating, you know.

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But anyway.

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Yeah, yeah. Fantastic answer. Thank you so much.

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I'm definitely going to use that.

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I'm trying to incorporate more improv into my lessons lately,

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make that more of a focus.

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I think call and response is a great idea.

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And the blues, the blues scale would be great.

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Sure.

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Because it's all of a sudden they'll relate to it because well,

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why wouldn't they?

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There's nothing, no barrier that says they can or cannot or that they can't.

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It's just a scale, but it's going to be this, oh, oh wow.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Anyway.

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So sorry, guys.

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I know we're running a little long, but I have to ask this last question.

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When you were warming up, you know,

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at a certain point I thought this sounds very much like a classical etude.

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You know, he's just improvising his own etude right here.

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And then that got me thinking, okay, so where, how do you,

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how do I say it's like, so where does improv and in composition begin?

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Like, when do you call something a composition and what's different about that?

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Well, for me, but I would say for probably most composers, not all composers,

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I write at the piano.

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So my compositions come from improvising at the piano.

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And then I, if something starts to develop and I keep repeating this particular

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chord progression and or melody together, then I go, ah,

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I want to develop this further.

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And I want it to be a complete, I want to complete it.

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So, and maybe I want to come, especially becomes a composition.

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If I need to complete it for an ensemble.

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Okay.

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You know, so yeah, I mean that there, you can compose, you know,

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compose, you can improvise a composition on the spot.

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Okay.

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Still, still really an improvisation.

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But if you, I suppose if you write it down, if you, in some manner,

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that you're going to convey this to other musicians and you put it on a recording,

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well, I don't know, you put it on a recording, it's still an improvisation,

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like Keith Jarrett, very famous improvisations that in essence were compositions.

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But yeah, that to me, that's where it starts is the improvisation gives you these ideas to,

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you know, but, you know, like Bach, of course, was a, you know,

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most amazing improviser, but I, I read this, I believe I got it right,

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that after a while he wasn't even at the piano when he was composing.

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Right.

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He was just up in his desk wherever, you know, writing all these things down.

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And it's just like, that's like mind blowing to think of that.

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But in that sense, maybe, maybe he was improvising in his head,

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like, ah, no, I'll try this, but he's not playing any instrument.

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It's freaky.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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I know I heard once that Shostakovich used to go to other people's concerts

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and compose while he was there.

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Wow.

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Which is a whole other level, listening to one music, composing another.

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What I'm getting from you is that basically improvisation is composition.

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It's just a matter of like, when do you say, okay, that's, that's done.

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It's, it's in some kind of concrete form now, which doesn't mean it can't still change.

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Yeah, I would, I would clarify a little bit further though.

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There are some, you know, unbelievable improvisers and I'll be specific in jazz

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that maybe they, very little composing, maybe not so much composing,

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but like always take incredible solos.

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Excuse me.

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And so, yes, it's, it's a compositional space,

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but I think it can be difficult for some great improvising musicians to all of a sudden go,

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oh, I need to write this down because they have to have, of course,

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they have to have their, the way to write it down.

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They have to be very, very clear and go, okay, it can be 12 measures,

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but what if it's like a through composed thing?

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Are they going to, and who's going to solo where and where do these instruments come in?

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I think it, not everybody's so suited to it, but they're like, like, okay,

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in a jazz big band, there's the lead trumpet player who hits like all the, you know,

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he's leading the pack and he's hitting often very high notes.

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A lot of times those players, they can improvise, but that's not their thing.

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They're actually more reading the notes in that kind of classical sense.

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Okay.

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But they're, they're not, they kind of shy away from improvising.

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Of course they improvise because, but they rarely get solos.

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I see.

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It's the second or third or fourth, fifth trumpet player that does more of the soloing.

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Interesting.

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I mean, I didn't know that until later, you know.

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Yeah, I certainly didn't know that.

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So, so there's some, it's like an anomaly, but they're still improvisers,

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but their main thing is, is a particular direction.

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And then there are some jazz musicians who maybe over the course of their career became like man composition

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or the orchestra is their instrument.

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And, and of course they're still improvising to come up with ideas,

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but that's not their public display or, or voice.

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Their public voice is their compositions.

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Like, uh, uh, Gil Evans.

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Do you, do you know that name?

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I'm not sure. He, uh, was the great composer and arranger that did with Miles Davis did, uh, uh, sketches of Spain.

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Um, what else did he do? They did like three monumental records.

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Anyway, a great band leader composer, but not the player in the sense of what we, you know.

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Okay.

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So anyway, different avenues, avenues of expression.

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So for now, we're going to go into the rapid fire questions.

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Woohoo. All right. Are you ready? Sure. Good. All right.

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What is your comfort food? Um, oh my gosh, that isn't a food group. Oh my gosh.

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Uh, French fries, no potato chips. Love it. So American.

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Cats or dogs? Cats.

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All right. What is your word or words to live by?

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Compassion. Beautiful.

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What is the most important quality you look for in people?

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Quality I look for in people. Yes. Kindness.

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What is the worst quality in people you want to stay away from?

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Self-importance.

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Got it. Overly self-important.

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All right. I'm going to next. So Jim, name three people who inspire you, living or dead.

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John Lewis, the great congressman.

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Top of my head, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the Supreme Court justice.

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And my oldest brother, who was a poet and musician and addictions counselor.

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Wow. Which historical figure or composer do you want to learn or take lessons from?

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If she or he were alive.

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Bach for sure. Yeah. Great.

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Which historical figure or composer do you wish to hang out at the bar if he or she were alive?

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Uh, let me see.

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Stravinsky, because I think he liked to drink too. So a bar would be a good.

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So what's one piece in your current playlist?

339
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Oh, things I listen to. Yeah.

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The St. Matthew Passion. Okay.

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For Easter. And I did not listen to the whole thing. It's quite long.

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But I just love, love that music. And, you know, it's just always revealing more beauty and depth.

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But yeah, that's the most current thing.

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Okay. Yeah. Of course, a piece you can come back to time and again.

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What about a book title you're currently reading?

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Man, what am I reading? I read, I read a lot.

347
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Oh, I'm reading the prequel to Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett.

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He's a British author, but he had this this book that was it's called The Morning and Afternoon or something like that.

349
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But anyway, it's a very interesting book.

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And it takes place in the 11th century, like when they started to build cathedrals and it's about cathedral building.

351
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But it's fiction. But it's.

352
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,320
Okay. Sounds interesting. One of the things I'm doing. Yeah.

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All right. Our most popular question. If you only get one song or piece to listen to for the rest of your life or recording, what is it?

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And that's supposed to be rapid fire.

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I'm so I'm such a loser.

356
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:24,320
No, you're in good company. I think we were worse than any of our guests when we did it.

357
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Or I was anyway. So it's like kind of the desert island.

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Yes, exactly.

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I think it's a really good piece.

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Well, I just got to say something, maybe a dodgy for strings, which would be kind of a bummer.

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Unbelievable music, but that popped into my head. But that's also it's it's just so inside that. Yeah.

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I've actually been listening to that a lot myself recently, but I feel like your days on that desert island might be numbered if that's what you are listening to exclusively.

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Swim. Yeah. Okay. Finally, fill in the blank. Jazz is blank.

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Freedom. Jazz is freedom. Okay, fantastic.

365
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Wow. Wonderful. Thank you.

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Well, so, well, we want to keep on going. But for now, that concludes this episode of the piano pot. Thank you, Jim, for joining our show today.

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Thank you. Thank you, Clara, you keep me and Eric. I appreciate it. My pleasure.

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Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, your expertise, and thank you for our audience for tuning in today. We want to remind the listeners and the viewers of this episode that Jim also continues to perform at the soapbox gallery during the pandemic

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live stream, I assume, to actually worldwide monthly in Brooklyn, please follow their Facebook page and follow Jim's personal Facebook page for all the concert updates.

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If you enjoyed today's episode please rate and review or what on whatever podcasting platform you use if you're watching from YouTube please hit the thumbs up button and be sure to subscribe to our channel.

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You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. The links are in the description below.

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If you have feedback for us, you can always leave it in the comments send us a DM, or email us at the piano pod NYC at gmail.com.

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Hope to see you for the future episode.

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Thank you very much, everyone. Bye everyone.

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Thank you Jim.