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You're listening to the PianoPod, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry

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about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century.

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Last time we spoke to Madeleine Bruiser about her teaching philosophy, mindfulness in practicing,

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and common issues she encounters with her students.

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And now, the conclusion.

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Can we back up a little bit and talk about your early musical experiences, growing up,

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going to school, and then how your early career and how you eventually ended up writing your

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book and came to the art of practicing.

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Okay, so you're talking about going from age six to finish when I was 46.

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Maybe not every day, but...

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How did the art of practicing come to be?

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It came to be directly through meditation practice.

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Directly.

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I had been already teaching certain elements of it.

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As soon as I started meditating at 29, I was already teaching things like sing the left

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hand while you play the right hand so that you can really hear what's on the page.

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Just the sound coming at you instead of thinking about the sound, and also rhythmic grouping.

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This is an extremely powerful aspect of the work.

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I don't know if I can go into it too much now, but simply to say that rhythm is usually

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not taught well.

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It's really taught that the first beat is strong, the third beat is semi-strong, and

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the second and fourth beats are weak, and that's the end of it.

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You have to go one, two, three, four, one, two, three, and this is death to me because

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the first beat is strong by nature.

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If you emphasize it, you just kill all the flow of the music.

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There are a number of music teachers, not very many.

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One I know of in jazz and a couple of maybe three people in the classical world and different

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instruments who understand rhythmic grouping.

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There's also a book called Note Grouping, and it's similar in content to my chapter

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11 in my book, The Art of Practicing, which is all about rhythm.

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Rhythm is again in the body.

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When people use metronomes, they are shutting down their body.

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Human rhythm is not the same as mechanical rhythm.

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Human rhythm flows in waves, and it's very important that your life moves in waves.

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The heartbeat is like, and breathing goes in waves.

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Phrases go in waves.

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Music flows in waves.

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So that wave, it ebbs on the downbeat.

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You don't go one, two, three, four.

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You go one, two, three, four, one, two, three, four, one, or two, three, one, two, three,

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one, so that it's constantly moving forward.

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It's kind of complicated to go into in an interview, but it's pretty well covered in

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the book.

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But nevertheless, somebody actually has to work in this because we're trained to stop

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at bar lines and to stop before beats.

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And we don't even realize we're doing it.

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This actually affects your technique because this kind of rhythm, as Yukimi was talking

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about, it's organic.

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This is how life flows.

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And so when you think of the notes in these groups and you feel these waves in these groups,

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your body works much more naturally and your technique improves.

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So what was the question?

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How did they come to the art of practicing?

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So I started teaching that along with the listening techniques.

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And I was more aware of what was going on with the hands and arms.

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So I was able to teach that, but it didn't crystallize until I had been meditating for

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eight years.

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And at that point, what happened was meditation is a practice of sitting still no matter what.

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No matter what's going on in your body.

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And that's the discipline of it, accommodating big energy.

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So I was accommodating a lot of big energy that spring when I was 37.

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Some heartbreaking things happened in my life and it was really painful.

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And I was sitting on my meditation cushion, feeling all this emotional pain and not moving.

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It was around that time that I noticed at the piano that I didn't want to move around

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anymore.

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I was able to accommodate the big energy of the music, all that flow of powerful energy

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without reacting to it this way.

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And I just wasn't able to go back to the other way.

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And a friend came over and said it sounded better the new way because the music was just

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coming through to the listener directly.

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So that week I asked all my students to sit that way instead of doing like this.

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And instantly, instantly, they all sounded 100% better.

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That was when the light bulbs were like, I could almost see them flashing in front of

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me and saying, you know, you don't have to hit your head against the wall anymore trying

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to become a touring internationally successful pianist.

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You are an important teacher.

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People need to learn this.

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This is your career.

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Everything totally shifted at that point.

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This is like six months after my New York debut.

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Right?

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I had my debut.

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Did I know it was going to be my finale?

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The irony.

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So I stopped pursuing concerts.

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I canceled a concert I had in Chicago.

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I was done.

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And I started giving seminars on the art of practicing.

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And then the book just evolved from that.

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I actually tape recorded a lot of the seminars, including the questions and answers.

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And those are the questions and answers that are at the end of most of the chapters in

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my book.

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Could you tell us how we should as a piano teacher to maybe introduce meditation to students?

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That's a great question.

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I've never told them to do it.

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I don't want to proselytize because I don't think it's appropriate.

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But what I've done is if a person is, it just happened yesterday actually, if a person is

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obviously kind of in a stressed state, they're speaking in very negative terms, they're nervous,

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they're just not settled down.

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I say, well, let's just take a minute to settle down.

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Just sit there, let your eyes relax, keep them a little open, and just notice your breathing

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for a couple of minutes.

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That's all I do.

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If you start calling it something, it actually is limiting what it is.

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Because all it is, is a space in the person's mind, you're offering them an opportunity

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to take some space that their mind desperately needs.

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And a little space goes a long way.

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So then if the person becomes interested in meditation after that, which definitely happens

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to some people, and in these days, because mindfulness is such a known entity, people

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ask for it more often, then I recommend a meditation instructor or a program.

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But I try to become their instructor because that's a whole other relationship.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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Thank you so much.

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Yeah.

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The three contact points, the feet are on the floor, the sitting bones are in contact

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with the bench.

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Then when you play a chord, the ends of those finger bones are in contact with the bottom.

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So it will actually, in contrast to the excess effort of doing this, when you lean forward,

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you really do that with a lot of energy.

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It throws your torso a little bit backwards because of the equal and opposite reaction.

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I see.

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Yeah.

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It seems so much easier when you do it that way.

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Right.

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But then there's also other uses of the forward motion of the arms, where instead of initiating

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it from the fingertips where you're grabbing and your arm is passive, you initiate from

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the shoulder.

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So you can do that when you just let the arm weight drop in, but you can also slide in

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and out of the keys, which is initiated from here.

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And the sliding motion is something that's not in my book.

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And it is something that I want to really create on a video for people so they can understand

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it.

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So if I just open a piece like...

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Let me show you that really close up.

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Okay.

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So I'm sliding in and out.

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So you can teach the student to just slide with all five fingers on the board.

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So they can slide this way in and out.

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And then...

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You'll notice things like I'm sliding in and I'm already coming out before I slide out

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on that one.

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This one slides in and it comes back out.

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Then I slide in.

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So there's a lot of...

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Even on the same key, you're sliding in and out.

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And I've just taught them to do a scale like that.

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You know, in, out, in, in, in, in, out, out, out, in, out, out.

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That's how complicated it is, but it's actually a very natural way to move your hand.

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Yeah.

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I can see how relaxed you are when you do that.

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The first thing that I always address with every person...

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I don't think I've ever seen anybody who's accomplished this entirely.

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Actually one person got it from my book.

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It's in the book, but to get it from the book is exceptional.

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It says in the book that you could practice letting the fingers relax on the keys when

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they're not playing.

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So if you do...

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Do it down here.

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You don't do this, right?

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Right, yeah.

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It comes down so that the fingers are doing the minimum and that's because they're not

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designed for power.

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And that's very important.

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People need to understand what parts of the mechanism are designed for what.

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The fingers are designed for precision, refined control.

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The arms are designed for power and flow.

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This is like the bow for the string player or the lungs for the wind player or singer.

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This is the flow.

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If you cut that flow...

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I could play that Mozart opening without that flow, just staying one place instead of sliding

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in and out and that limits what I can do.

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I'll try it, but...

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It feels awful and I just don't feel that it creates the same kind of musical flow.

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So it's a much more freeing experience for the pianist to allow things to keep flowing

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all the time.

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Right, right.

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So you have to...

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And then the shoulder is designed to position the hand in space.

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So it's not designed to do this, right?

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That's not going to help you.

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And it's not designed to do that, right?

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And then of course, so that's the mechanism, the playing mechanism.

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And then there's the whole supportive mechanism, the stability that's provided with the torso

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when you sit very solidly.

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There's also all this that you can do to reach certain distances on the keyboard.

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And then the wrist is really designed to move.

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So the wrist has eight bones that are lined up in two rows of four, and it is totally

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designed to move.

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It makes ovals all the time.

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So if I do this...

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You can make an oval even holding down a single key.

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Not that you should do it for no reason, but there's just all kinds of places where this

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liberates the whole mechanism.

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It allows you to reach stretches.

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It makes it easier for the fingers to put the keys down.

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There's all kinds of stuff.

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So I just kind of condensed a vast unwritten encyclopedia of piano technique into this

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tiny little thing.

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But this is really when I started out with singing today where we need to tune into what

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our natural abilities are.

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The body is designed to work a particular way.

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If you use it that way, you'll be able to play the instrument well.

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But just having this basic number of facts can really help people stop doing excessive

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work with the wrong part of the body.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Thank you for the demonstration.

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I think it's really helpful for people to see it in action, although of course, this

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is just the tip of the iceberg.

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And for anybody watching, if you're interested in this and you'd like to know more, I highly

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recommend you pick up the book, The Art of Practicing, or go to theartofpracticing.com

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and Madeline's going to be offering a series of online master classes.

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Yes?

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Yes.

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And I think the second week of June, it's going to start.

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It'll be once a week for two and a half hours.

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It'll be early afternoon on the East Coast so that people on the West Coast or in Europe

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can participate.

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And there will be a 10-minute mindfulness practice to open each session, 20 minutes

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of group conversation about anything that is coming up for people.

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And then it will work with each of three pianists for 45 minutes and they will have a minute

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of feedback from the group.

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Those three pianists will go through the whole six weeks.

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It's called a transformative piano master class series.

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By the end of the six weeks, something will be different.

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That's fantastic.

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Yeah.

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So if that sounds like something you would be interested in signing up for, please visit

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artofpracticing.com.

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All right.

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So I'm afraid we're running out of time.

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I feel like we didn't get to at least two thirds of what we want to talk about.

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But I think Clara has one more question for you, Madeline, and then we've got to get on

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to rapid fire.

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That's right.

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And for those pianists who are thinking, just take the action and enrol now.

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And I'm still so inspired from last year.

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And one thing I have a great question for you, Madeline, but I just want to reflect

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on one tiny thing that I feel like if it's not for the master class that I did last year,

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and it just happened to be, I don't even know where it came from.

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It just kind of landed in my hand and I was connected to, which I didn't know how to find

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you.

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And it was just through PTC.

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And I felt like you gave me permission.

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And I remember it was that night after I performed, I came home and I realized I have to transfer

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the student, my studio to online because that was the most rational thing to do.

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And I think that took a lot of courage.

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And I believe, and then my students actually are playing better than ever.

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And I have all these, so I want to know what your opinion is.

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What is, what's the future is going to be from after this year and a half or what is

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it going to be for PMS 50 years, a hundred years from now?

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I know that the pandemic is having a major effect on all of us.

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And I feel that it has a really powerful silver lining.

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I think that it's getting people to focus inward more because there's no choice.

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And there's less, so much less distraction.

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You know, you can't get on the subway and go here and there and all over the place.

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You're left alone in your house where your family is, where everything is more intimate

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and personal and it can't help but change us.

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So I think that people have been forced also to come to grips with horrible economic realities

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of not being able to make a living.

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It's horrible for performers.

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And you know, some teachers don't want to teach online and there are some students who

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don't want lessons online.

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So I think that this inward awareness, inner awareness is actually beneficial, but only

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up to a point.

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I think it's going to make us appreciate connection to other people much more.

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I mean, my husband and I both are getting the second dose of the vaccine this week.

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And within two weeks we'll be fully immune and we know this other couple that will be

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in the same position.

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And I said, let's have them over for dinner.

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I can't believe what that's going to be like.

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People are saying it's so good to shake someone's hand.

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I think and the appreciation of what a performance really means is going to be bigger.

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So I think a lot of things have been stripped away and we're not going to even know until

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the pandemic is over.

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And gradually in pieces we'll have more experience of being out in the world.

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So I think there is that.

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I would hope and I believe actually that making music is a practice that is evolving.

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The fact that schools are teaching the Alexander Technique.

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I mean, actually one of my students is teaching at a college and she's now teaching meditation

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at her college to the musicians.

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These possibilities are now more open because it doesn't sound like such a weird thing to

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the administration of the school anymore.

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20 million Americans are practicing mindfulness.

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Well, hey, maybe we should get with the program, right?

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So it's different.

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It's going to take a long time though.

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But I'm not sure that that's what your question was.

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But I do think that each individual is tasked with figuring out their individual situation.

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I think people need to talk about it, to have guidance from somebody they trust.

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And one of my biggest, I mean, my whole reason for being on the planet seems to be to help

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people, as I said, to believe in themselves, to show them that they're capable of so much

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more than they realized.

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They could play so much better.

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They could teach so much better.

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They could help their audience more.

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They could help their students more.

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That evolution, that's what I'm here to facilitate.

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So I'm hoping that the increase of inward focus and the increased awareness of how the

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mind and body work with music will actually somehow get people to, and also the forced

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discontinuation of how they were making a living before.

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There's a musician who has a wonderful website.

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I can't remember the name of it.

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Her name is Kaylee Miller.

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And she is a Pilates instructor.

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And she also has a podcast.

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And she's connected with a lot of musicians.

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And she's a major person in musician's wellness.

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And she wrote this article I came across recently that said, I've been forced to do other things

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for a living.

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Because I'm teaching Pilates full time.

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This is what I'm doing now.

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And that she appreciates certain things about it.

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And I read another article.

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This other musician is saying, well, I'm realizing that I want to be somewhat into arts administration

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so that I can help how the schools are teaching music.

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And I want to teach body mapping to these musicians.

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And I want to teach the violin.

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And I want to perform.

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That is a kind of hybrid career.

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It's really healthy, because we're not just a one track person usually.

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You have the abilities.

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And the world needs them.

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So that's what I think is possible.

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I think it's very, very painful for people to not be able to do what they love the most.

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But I think it can be a growth experience.

328
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Wow.

329
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:13,560
Thank you, Madeline.

330
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,560
That is such a wonderful answer.

331
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,200
I really, really appreciate your insight.

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We have a new segment called the Piano Pods rapid fire questions.

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Question number one.

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Are you ready?

335
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:29,120
Yes.

336
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:30,120
Right.

337
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:33,600
What do you consider comfort food?

338
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,400
I love almond butter out of a spoon.

339
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,800
That is quite healthy.

340
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:42,800
Great.

341
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,680
Loved it every day.

342
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:46,680
Wonderful.

343
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:47,680
Wow.

344
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:48,680
Okay.

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00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,960
What is your word or words to live by?

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00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,320
Love yourself and then you can love others.

347
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:58,600
Great.

348
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,220
Beautiful.

349
00:22:00,220 --> 00:22:05,640
What is the most important quality you look for in people?

350
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Love.

351
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,000
And the word do you think is the worst quality in people?

352
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,000
Aggression.

353
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,840
I will continue.

354
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:22,920
Name three people who inspired you, living or dead.

355
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:27,520
Well the first would be my meditation with Chichigam, Trungpa or Bhikshu.

356
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:33,560
I was unbelievably fortunate to play the piano for three times.

357
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:41,120
Actually the picture of that happening the third time right here.

358
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:45,600
This was the end of a three month meditation program and I played for him in New York when

359
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,400
he happened to be staying at a house with two Steinway grands.

360
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:49,400
Oh my gosh.

361
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:50,400
Yeah.

362
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,080
I know you don't want a long answer.

363
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,120
It was beyond words.

364
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:58,760
It was like the best piano lesson I ever had and he knew nothing about the piano.

365
00:22:58,760 --> 00:22:59,760
Oh my goodness.

366
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:00,760
Wow.

367
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,080
This is a Tibetan who appreciated Western music immensely.

368
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,080
Right.

369
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,260
This is a very, very extraordinary human being.

370
00:23:08,260 --> 00:23:11,440
So definitely him.

371
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:12,440
Three people.

372
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:18,440
One was Anakham Pressler who I studied with for two years when I was 17 to 19 who emphasized

373
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imagination, creativity, sound, magic, all the things about being an artist.

374
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,720
I felt like I became an artist.

375
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:34,000
I didn't have another teacher like that before or after.

376
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,160
And was the question who I admire?

377
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:38,160
Three people.

378
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,160
Living or dead.

379
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,440
I admire Mozart.

380
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,440
He inspired you.

381
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:46,440
Mozart.

382
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,880
Mozart's music.

383
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,800
Name one piece in your current playlist.

384
00:23:52,800 --> 00:24:00,680
Schubert, G flat, and Prompto.

385
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,040
Okay this is a new one.

386
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:07,000
I don't know about this for rapid fire but name one change you would like to make to

387
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,080
music education in the U.S.

388
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:23,240
I would like to have a national conference at which thousands of music teachers attend

389
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:35,880
and where the whole point is to open up and talk about the primary need we all have to

390
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:43,880
be open, vulnerable, and genuine and what are the components of making that possible

391
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,200
in making music for your students.

392
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,200
Great.

393
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:49,200
Wonderful.

394
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:58,280
Okay so if you could only listen to one piece for the rest of your life what would it be?

395
00:24:58,280 --> 00:24:59,280
That's a tough one.

396
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,280
Oh I know.

397
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,040
Of course I know.

398
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:08,760
The second movement of the Mozart concerto in A major, K4-88.

399
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,160
Second movement in F sharp minor.

400
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,880
My favorite piece of western music.

401
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,000
Oh there you go.

402
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,360
And finally please answer with one word.

403
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:20,160
Fill in the blank.

404
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,680
Music is blank.

405
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:23,680
Love.

406
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:24,680
Perfect.

407
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:32,440
So everybody that concludes this episode of the PianoPod which I am very reluctant to

408
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:33,440
end.

409
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,080
Thank you so much Madeline for joining us.

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00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:41,360
We want to remind everybody to check out your website artofpracticing.com and remember Madeline's

411
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:45,680
online masterclass series will begin in June.

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00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:52,080
If you enjoyed this episode please read and then review on whatever podcasting platform

413
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:53,080
you use.

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00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,800
If you're watching it from YouTube please hit the thumbs up button and be sure to subscribe

415
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,040
to our channel.

416
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,880
You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,360
The links are in the description below.

418
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:15,240
If you have feedback for us please leave it in the comments or direct message us by social

419
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:22,920
media or you can also email us at the pianopodnyc.gmail.com.

420
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,920
We look forward to seeing you all on the next episode of the PianoPod.

421
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:26,920
Bye everybody.

422
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:27,920
Bye everyone.

423
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:28,920
Thank you Madeline.

424
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:29,920
Thank you so much.

425
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:55,260
graveyard