1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,800 You are listening to the PianoPod, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry 2 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:17,960 about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century. 3 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,560 Welcome back to another episode of the PianoPod. 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,200 I'm Yukimi Song. 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:23,840 I'm Clara Zhang. 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,240 And I'm Eric Hunter. 7 00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:29,960 Let me start by asking some questions to you, viewers and listeners. 8 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:35,480 And I'm sure you still clearly remember the moment that the pandemic became reality for 9 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:41,640 you and for your loved ones and the moment you knew your life was about to change completely. 10 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,200 My questions are, where were you in that moment? 11 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,760 And were you with anyone? 12 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:49,600 What did you hear? 13 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,440 What was the feeling you experienced? 14 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,960 Any physical symptoms you had? 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,200 So I want to share my personal story. 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:03,440 And that was back in early March 2020. 17 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,640 And I was still living in the pre-pandemic lifestyle. 18 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,160 And New York City was still open. 19 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:15,560 And then I was teaching in-person lessons still. 20 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:22,480 So I took a subway, but I was wearing the pair of latex gloves. 21 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:28,280 And I bought this most expensive mask from Amazon. 22 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,080 And then I was equipped and I took the subway. 23 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:38,040 Then as I got out of the subway, there was a phone call. 24 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:45,120 That phone call to me was the moment I realized, wow, this is real. 25 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:46,440 I mean it. 26 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,960 The life is changing completely. 27 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,560 What was the phone call? 28 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:58,440 The phone call, yeah, I was going to say the phone call on the other end was actually a 29 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,920 very good friend of mine who is the guest of this episode. 30 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:08,880 And then, so let me just before I continue my story, let me just introduce you to our 31 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:15,820 guest today who is a pianist, composer, and educator of over two decades. 32 00:02:15,820 --> 00:02:23,280 He lived for six years abroad in Macau, China where he created and managed entertainment 33 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,680 programs for the world's largest casino company, Las Vegas Sands. 34 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:34,400 He's been back in the United States now and is now a senior executive overseeing operations 35 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:40,760 and sales at Mid-America Productions, the most prolific presenter of choral concerts 36 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,440 in the history of Carnegie Hall. 37 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,680 So everyone, let's welcome Mr. James Redkay. 38 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,160 Welcome James. 39 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,720 Thank you so much. 40 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,200 Thank you for having me. 41 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:53,720 Thank you. 42 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,160 So let's just continue the story. 43 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:02,780 So I received a call from you and then, you know, one of the things was that we usually 44 00:03:02,780 --> 00:03:06,160 text each other because our work schedules are so different. 45 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,380 So you know, either email exchange or text. 46 00:03:09,380 --> 00:03:11,680 So that was just like a biggest alert. 47 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,320 Oh my gosh, right. 48 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:21,560 Then what also struck me was the tone of your voice, that tone of distress. 49 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:26,720 And you know, usually you're like totally chilled and poised, but that wasn't the case. 50 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:31,400 So that got me thinking, whoa, I am panicked. 51 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,480 I am fearful. 52 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:39,680 And so, and I was like trying to comfort you, but the only thing I could say was, oh, you 53 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,320 know, it's going to be only three weeks. 54 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:46,280 It started out as three weeks and then that became three months. 55 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,960 And hopefully it's not going to be three years. 56 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:53,920 Anyway, so let's talk about that content of the phone call. 57 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:59,840 So I want to know exactly where you're calling from and what was the background? 58 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,400 Well I was, it was a pretty remarkable time. 59 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:11,600 I was in the middle of representing my company at a handful of regional conventions for the 60 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:16,800 American Choral Directors Association or the ACDA, regional conventions that they hold 61 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,880 every two years. 62 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,480 And I had the first week of was March 2020. 63 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:31,240 I was in Little Rock, Arkansas doing a convention there and COVID was, it was something that 64 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:36,880 was in the news, but it wasn't something that seemed to be, you know, of great concern to 65 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:38,360 everyone. 66 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:43,400 And then that convention wrapped up and I ended up taking a short road trip through 67 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:49,880 the South and made my way to Mobile, Alabama for the second convention that I was doing. 68 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,320 And that's when I called you. 69 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,800 And I remember that, I will never forget that convention. 70 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:02,520 It was around the second week of March and you know, COVID had just started to be this 71 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,960 thing that everyone was now starting to worry about. 72 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,660 And I remember it very well. 73 00:05:08,660 --> 00:05:15,160 The convention ended on a Saturday, but this was Friday when Carnegie Hall announced that 74 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:20,680 they were going to start closing and Broadway was going to close and cancel performances 75 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:27,640 and concerts and you know, being there on the convention floor with all of these little 76 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:33,080 booths that all of the vendors operate, we were just kind of having to bear witness to 77 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:38,020 all of these things just closing and being canceled all across the country and especially 78 00:05:38,020 --> 00:05:41,280 in New York and in big metropolitan areas. 79 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:47,160 And I remember very well, I was talking to a director who was talking to me about her 80 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:52,400 program and you know, all the things that they were doing and all of these performances. 81 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:57,200 And in the middle of talking to me, she had to stop and take a phone call from the president 82 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:03,040 of her university who told her that she needed to get on a bus and get the kids and get them 83 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:10,080 back to their hometown because the whole university was closing and she wasn't legally allowed 84 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,980 to have the children on a trip, you know, have these students. 85 00:06:13,980 --> 00:06:18,800 And she had to just drop everything and run away, you know, completely end our conversation 86 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:19,980 in the middle of it. 87 00:06:19,980 --> 00:06:24,920 And I just thought it was, it seemed like the beginning of, you know, the apocalypse 88 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:26,040 or something happening. 89 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:27,600 Everyone was heading for the hills. 90 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,720 So you know, the convention ended early on Saturday. 91 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:37,520 I remember the organizers came to us and they told the vendors, all the performances are 92 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:38,520 canceled. 93 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:39,580 Everyone's heading home. 94 00:06:39,580 --> 00:06:42,360 You're welcome to, you know, head out yourselves. 95 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,800 There's probably not going to be anybody here and that really was the case. 96 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:50,880 And I remember talking to you, I was on the balcony of, I think it was the downtown quality 97 00:06:50,880 --> 00:07:00,200 in Mobile, Alabama, where my hotel was living luxuriously, you know, and I just, you know, 98 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,120 everything seemed to be kind of falling apart, you know. 99 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:09,080 So at that time we thought that and that was only, I think we had two concerts canceled 100 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:15,040 at Carnegie Hall at that point in time, which was two out of, I think, 15. 101 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:20,200 Little did I know that only a month or so later, everything would be canceled for the 102 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:21,680 entire year. 103 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:27,000 And you know, the company I worked for has done 38 years of concerts, almost 600 concerts 104 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,360 in that hall without ever having anything canceled on us. 105 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,320 So it was quite an experience. 106 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:34,320 Wow. 107 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,560 Thank you for describing all that. 108 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:43,920 I mean, I could only really sense, but what kind of scary experience that must have been, 109 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:44,920 you know. 110 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:50,320 So, but everybody can relate to that in so many ways because everybody experienced maybe 111 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,720 in different ways, but the same thing. 112 00:07:52,720 --> 00:08:00,160 So now just to, I'm just curious to know, you know, New York state, tri-state area announced 113 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:07,400 Monday that they're lifting all, almost all the pandemic restrictions by May 19th. 114 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:12,080 And then mayor of New York city announced that the New York city will open a hundred 115 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,320 percent by July 1st. 116 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,920 So does that mean, does that include Carnegie Hall? 117 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,500 Do you know anything about? 118 00:08:19,500 --> 00:08:24,080 I think part of the provisions in that, if I'm not mistaken, and I'm certainly not a 119 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:29,440 public health official, but I've also seen that they're essentially planning to maintain 120 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:34,200 social distancing, I think at various venues and restaurants and all of that in the city 121 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:35,200 and the state. 122 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,600 But Carnegie has a plan to reopen now for their fall season. 123 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,720 I think that's September, October. 124 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:47,640 It's been, it's been interesting working with them and you know, the company I work for 125 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,040 has a huge history with them. 126 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,320 And they've been very kind with us and been keeping us up to date as soon as they know 127 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,880 what their, what their plans are, but they've been very incremental. 128 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:03,080 And we understand that, you know, when you're the Metropolitan Opera or you're a Broadway 129 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,240 production, you have huge sets and huge casts. 130 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:13,520 And you know, it's, it's very difficult to open for one month out of an entire season. 131 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:19,600 Whereas, you know, Carnegie can do a solo piano recital or a string quartet concert, 132 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:24,920 and they have social distancing essentially built in, at least for the performers. 133 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,920 They seem very optimistic about reopening in the fall, and we're very hopeful for that 134 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,600 as well. 135 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:37,640 Mid-America season operates essentially in from spring and summer of every year. 136 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:43,400 So thankfully, our first concerts are not until March 2022. 137 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:49,080 And I think we've learned our lesson in terms of trying to be prognosticators for the future. 138 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:56,320 You know, the situation on the ground in September will be certainly different from the situation 139 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:57,560 on the ground in March. 140 00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:03,840 So thankfully, we're being updated and we're just trying to follow, you know, as everyone 141 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:08,720 is, I think, CDC guidelines and New York State and New York City public health guidelines. 142 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:13,280 And who knows what the world will look like in a year or two. 143 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,080 Everything looks pretty positive and hopeful. 144 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,200 And I imagine we've all been vaccinated here. 145 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,280 I hope so. 146 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:27,040 And a lot of the people that I've been talking to around the country, because I talk to groups 147 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:33,600 every day from Alaska to Florida and Maine to California, a lot of folks are as well. 148 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,400 So everything looks like it's moving in the right direction. 149 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:43,360 But I know all of these venues are being very, very careful about their plans, because social 150 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,840 distancing is still going to, I think, be a part of any performance that happens certainly 151 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,240 in 2021. 152 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:51,240 Right. 153 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,640 Thank you for updating that. 154 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:55,640 Yeah. 155 00:10:55,640 --> 00:11:00,120 Hope that everything comes back, you know, as soon as possible. 156 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,200 I miss going to shows and concerts. 157 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:04,320 So who doesn't, right? 158 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:13,280 So yeah, I've never seen the amount of desire to come and do live music concerts in New 159 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,160 York, anywhere in the world. 160 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:21,480 And so we're very optimistic about having a very big season in 2022. 161 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:27,360 I mean, the only concert I played live personally as a pianist last year was a Christmas concert 162 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,260 in a church a block from my home. 163 00:11:29,260 --> 00:11:34,960 And I was just so happy to be playing jingle bells, let alone a big cup of snot. 164 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:36,320 It is what it is. 165 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:37,320 Yeah. 166 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,120 Let's just turn the clock backwards now. 167 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,360 And so we went to NYU together. 168 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:50,440 I mean, you're much younger, so I shouldn't say together, but you were undergrad and I 169 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,820 was a graduate student, and we were in the same studio. 170 00:11:53,820 --> 00:12:01,400 So tell us about your background and what led to, you know, working and going to foreign 171 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:02,760 country and so forth. 172 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:08,600 But first of all, maybe your NYU and also as a composer. 173 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:17,400 Sure, I, you know, as a child, piano was a big part of our family life. 174 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:23,200 I have a lot of musicians in the family and both of my sisters had studied piano. 175 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,900 And so as the baby of the family, it just seemed to be a natural thing that I started 176 00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:31,040 teaching myself to play when I was very young. 177 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:37,180 And you know, for a long time throughout my adolescent childhood, I really actually wanted 178 00:12:37,180 --> 00:12:39,960 to be a concert pianist. 179 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:45,320 And I was very fortunate at the time to study with a really excellent teacher in my teens 180 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:50,960 who she was very harsh and very strict and a real disciplinarian. 181 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:56,920 But one of the things that she really insisted that I practice and learn were all of the 182 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,040 well-tempered clavier, preludes and fugues. 183 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:05,960 And that was the thing that really actually started me thinking about composition and 184 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:11,780 really thinking about, you know, getting under the hood of the car and seeing how everything 185 00:13:11,780 --> 00:13:13,920 actually worked. 186 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,840 And so I started composing at a very late age. 187 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,600 I was 15, 16 years old. 188 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:28,480 But I decided that that was actually what I wanted to do as opposed to just be a pianist. 189 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:34,340 So you know, when I was and I think I also valued a liberal arts education and being 190 00:13:34,340 --> 00:13:38,200 well-rounded, it's something that my parents also valued very much. 191 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:45,120 And so NYU was it was a really a wonderful decision that I, you know, and that I was 192 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,320 able to get in and that I was able to go. 193 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,720 You know, I mean, I think you remember, you know, from our friendship and our time there, 194 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:57,800 it was just being there was an education, musically in and of itself, let alone being 195 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,360 in class and actually, you know, studying counterpoint and all of that. 196 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:08,880 I mean, just to be there, you had the opportunity to to perform with other people who were like-minded 197 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:13,920 and you were able to go and see 15 different concerts every night in New York City. 198 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:19,560 And so I was fortunate in that I was able to actually work on my way through college 199 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,120 and get a lot of experience. 200 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,640 And you know, the education was, of course, top notch, too. 201 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,420 So that didn't hurt anything. 202 00:14:29,420 --> 00:14:34,320 And also, I learned a lot from actually outside of campus. 203 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,200 I learned a lot from streets of New York. 204 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:38,200 Yeah. 205 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,040 So I love the location of NYU. 206 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,920 You know, you learn a lot. 207 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:43,520 You see a lot. 208 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:48,600 I just wanted to say that, James, although you say you started composing very late at 209 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:55,000 15 or 16, I did not begin really composing myself seriously until I was 30. 210 00:14:55,000 --> 00:15:00,360 So I just want to remind our viewers that it's never too late. 211 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,080 I always say that to students, too. 212 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,720 Especially in this pandemic, I have seen so many adults. 213 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,320 I mean, it was one of the things that I've actually seen. 214 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,180 I thought that and I'm sure you all would agree. 215 00:15:13,180 --> 00:15:17,880 I thought that I would lose students from my private studio teaching throughout 2020 216 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,700 because people would move or financial concerns. 217 00:15:20,700 --> 00:15:26,760 But I've grown a studio and it's been amazing to see how many people have flocked back to 218 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,360 music and many adults that wanted to pick it up again. 219 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,240 And I always tell folks the same thing. 220 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,800 It's not too late to pick it up. 221 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:36,800 Yeah. 222 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:37,800 Okay. 223 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:44,080 So now I want to know all experiences after you graduated. 224 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:48,760 So tell us what happened. 225 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:57,000 So at the time, I graduated with my undergraduate degree and I had happened to be in a relationship 226 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,280 with a person that was from Macau, China. 227 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:06,400 And so I had thought in just my own crazy way, I would take a year off and I would go 228 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,240 and live there and I would work abroad. 229 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,600 And it seemed to me to be essentially a sort of a personal study abroad in a way to have 230 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:19,840 another experience that was outside the usual mainstream way of graduating and getting a 231 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,120 job and doing things. 232 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:28,400 And so I think two days after I graduated at NYU, I actually got on a flight and I moved. 233 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,000 I had been there a few times prior to visit. 234 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:39,800 And so I ended up by a circuitous way, I ended up teaching for the Macau Conservatory there 235 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:44,960 and doing things like ballet accompanying at the piano and all of these things. 236 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,160 And I taught there for about three years. 237 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:55,720 And I had briefly considered coming back and doing graduate work or whatnot, but I ended 238 00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:01,920 up meeting, it's a small place, it's only about 10 square miles as the country goes. 239 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,480 So everybody knows everybody, especially in the arts. 240 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:12,520 I ended up meeting someone who managed the entertainment program for the Venetian Macau, 241 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:18,600 which was at the time, it was the largest casino in Macau. 242 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,000 And of course, Macau is this huge gambling mecca that makes six or seven times what Las 243 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,880 Vegas makes. 244 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:30,720 And the Venetian there is essentially a copy of the Venetian that's in Las Vegas. 245 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:39,480 So I met this person that had managed these programs and they needed someone, amazingly, 246 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:51,460 who had a composition background to come on board and rearrange shows that they did live 247 00:17:51,460 --> 00:17:54,680 in the casino, in the shopping malls that they had. 248 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,880 They have a 300 shop mall there. 249 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:05,000 And they did programs with classically trained vocalists, violinists, pianists, cellists, 250 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,260 guitarists, flautists, you name it. 251 00:18:09,260 --> 00:18:14,440 And they would do a 30 minute show here, a 10 minute show there. 252 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:22,240 And I had gotten into, it was something that was very not in my wheelhouse is an understatement 253 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:27,120 to be in that kind of an industry and that kind of a business setting. 254 00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:33,040 It is, there is a big gap between entertainment and the arts in some ways. 255 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,800 And that was very scary for me. 256 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,120 But I thought, what the heck, I will give it a try. 257 00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:45,520 And I ended up re-editing and rearranging all of these shows that they did. 258 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,920 And then it was very fun to do. 259 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,820 It was a big challenge. 260 00:18:49,820 --> 00:18:58,640 And I ended up also seeing that the department that was there was, they had about 120 to 261 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:08,480 about 130 full time musicians that were incredibly capable, incredibly talented. 262 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,720 Some really of the finest musicians that I had met. 263 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:16,560 And they hailed from all of these countries around Southeast Asia. 264 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,360 And it was really kind of, it was really remarkable. 265 00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:23,720 So I made many friends there. 266 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:30,560 And it was something that I ended up finding that I really enjoyed it. 267 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:38,320 You know, I know you as, especially you're more like a Mozart Bach Beethoven player. 268 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:45,000 So knowing that and then working in casino just always blows my mind. 269 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:51,580 It's a huge mental transition from the wall tempered clavier to O Sole Mio. 270 00:19:51,580 --> 00:19:53,800 But it can be done. 271 00:19:53,800 --> 00:20:01,000 And so I was there and I was working in kind of this coordinator supervisor, technically 272 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,000 sort of a lead artist capacity in this department. 273 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:09,360 And the company was always building, building, building, building more casinos, building 274 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:11,480 more hotels. 275 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,480 And I was there for about six months. 276 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:19,640 And I had put in a lot of time and worked weekends and all of that. 277 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:28,120 This was around 2011 when after the global recession in 2008, things were starting to 278 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:33,200 pick up again and the economy was roaring and booming, especially there. 279 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:39,000 And the company started construction again on a property across the street from the Venetian 280 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,280 called Sands Cotai Central. 281 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,360 And when it was built, it was actually the largest integrated resort in the world. 282 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:49,560 It was a 6,000 room hotel. 283 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:58,000 And they needed someone in the company to go over and create and manage and lead the 284 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,520 entertainment department there. 285 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:06,280 And so I was very fortunate that I was there at the time and I must have done enough overtime 286 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,440 that they asked me to go and do that. 287 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:13,840 So that was another just it was an incredible learning experience. 288 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,360 I was very fortunate to be able to do that job. 289 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:19,360 Wow. 290 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:22,120 James, I have so many questions for you now. 291 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:26,080 You know, I'm originally from China, so I've been to my Cal a few times. 292 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:31,240 Well, actually, really after I came here because I was too young to, I guess, go gamble, you 293 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:32,240 know. 294 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,920 So I was in Hong Kong teaching some master classes. 295 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,720 We just took a boat. 296 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,000 I mean, first of all, what language do you speak? 297 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:44,560 Do you just use English when you're in Macau because they use Portuguese and Cantonese? 298 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:45,560 No. 299 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:46,560 My Portuguese is terrible. 300 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,440 I only know a few words. 301 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,160 And there's not much you know, it's interesting. 302 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:56,680 The accountants, there's the official there's two official languages, which are Cantonese 303 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,160 and Portuguese. 304 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:04,800 But really in business, you know, people mostly speak English or they speak either Mandarin 305 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,040 or Cantonese. 306 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:12,720 When I worked at the Macau Conservatory, everything was in Mandarin or Cantonese. 307 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,440 And I was the only Westerner in the school. 308 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,880 And so nothing was done in English. 309 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,160 Even the documents weren't done in English. 310 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,600 Do you understand Mandarin? 311 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,360 My Mandarin is very limited. 312 00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:26,360 Okay. 313 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:30,080 Mostly to ballet terminology and then anything else. 314 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,700 But I learned quite a bit of Cantonese while I was there. 315 00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:37,880 So I was able to get around and take care of myself and not be totally lost. 316 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:38,880 Wow. 317 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:39,880 You're a living a dream. 318 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:40,880 That must be fun. 319 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:47,640 I mean, I know I'm thinking I've been to Macau a few times, but I think I've only been to 320 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,120 the casinos. 321 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:52,280 That's that's like the only places people go. 322 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:53,280 Right. 323 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,280 But so when you were there, like, where do the musicians like what do they do other than, 324 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,080 I mean, they play for the shows. 325 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,720 So you said there's a big conservatory as well. 326 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:04,720 There is. 327 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:10,200 I mean, it still is in some ways a sleepy fishing town, you know, that it's been for 328 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:11,760 thousands of years. 329 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:18,880 I mean, it's an interesting place because it is it is the oldest and it was the first 330 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,000 and it was the last European colony in Asia. 331 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,760 Actually, the Portuguese were there before the British were in Hong Kong. 332 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:31,320 And they gave it back to China two years after the British gave back Hong Kong. 333 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:36,760 So it has an incredible assimilation of cultures there. 334 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:41,880 I mean, there are times there are streets when you walk down that you think you're in 335 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:46,320 Lisbon and not in China. 336 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:52,080 And I think much like in Hong Kong, people appreciate being somewhat separate from the 337 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,600 mainland, just quite frankly. 338 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,200 But there is there's just an incredible culture there and an incredible history. 339 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,720 You know, there's all these UNESCO World Heritage sites. 340 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,400 And I think it's very different from Vegas in that way. 341 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:12,000 You know, Vegas was created as this stopover point in this gambling town. 342 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:17,200 McConnell was there for thousands of years before the Portuguese got there. 343 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:22,160 Really before the gambling industry, of course, started, which was not that old. 344 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,640 It's only been there for 60, 70 years. 345 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:34,080 So I mean, the musicians there, there's a symphony orchestra that's there. 346 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,400 There are opera performances that are there. 347 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:43,720 There's actually a pretty lively musical scene in terms of classical music concerts. 348 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,880 So there's there's quite a bit to do, but I think in general, a lot of the musicians 349 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,600 also teach privately and have studios and things like that. 350 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:52,600 That's very interesting. 351 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:53,600 Yeah. 352 00:24:53,600 --> 00:25:02,640 But with all these interesting encounter with people and experiences, then after six years, 353 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:10,160 you're back in the United States again in New York City area and you're working as right 354 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,040 now at Mid America. 355 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:17,120 So can you tell us about what exactly you do? 356 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:19,520 Oh, absolutely. 357 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,600 Mid America is a very, very, I think, kind of fascinating entity in and of itself. 358 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:32,320 So the company was started in 1983 by its founder, Peter Taboris. 359 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:40,240 And essentially, Mid America is kind of the original company that in New York has created 360 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:47,040 festival choir performances at Lincoln Center, some, but by and large in majority at Carnegie 361 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,040 Hall. 362 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:54,760 At this point, we've done something like five hundred and ninety two concerts in Stern Auditorium 363 00:25:54,760 --> 00:26:01,360 and a number of concerts in the hundreds in in Wild Hall as well. 364 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:08,240 And essentially what we do is we invite conductors from all around the country, largely from 365 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:13,480 the United States, but sometimes from Canada, Mexico, all around the world. 366 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:19,680 And these are folks that are directors of choral activities at major universities. 367 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:27,180 Sometimes they're very accomplished directors from community masterwork, adult choirs. 368 00:26:27,180 --> 00:26:31,800 Sometimes they're very accomplished children's choir directors on the national scene. 369 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:39,840 And we invite them to participate in a concert, in a program that they do the vast majority 370 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,560 of the programming themselves from a repertoire standpoint. 371 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:48,880 And then we invite choirs on their behalf at their personal recommendation and referral 372 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,520 to us to participate in that program. 373 00:26:52,520 --> 00:27:00,280 The choirs all pay a small per person registration fee and they get to come here for five days 374 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,260 to New York City and do rehearsals with the conductor. 375 00:27:04,260 --> 00:27:05,260 They all come together. 376 00:27:05,260 --> 00:27:10,600 They kind of have this educational collaborative experience. 377 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:15,860 They do a concert with a full orchestra, which we contract to do the concerts. 378 00:27:15,860 --> 00:27:19,020 We do the concert at Carnegie Hall. 379 00:27:19,020 --> 00:27:21,760 We do a cruise after the after every concert. 380 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,760 We must have done six hundred cruises now down through New York Harbor and Statue of 381 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,260 Liberty and all that. 382 00:27:27,260 --> 00:27:28,900 And then they go home. 383 00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:32,480 And that has not changed in thirty eight years, really. 384 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:33,560 Wow. 385 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,440 It includes a lot of different elements to it. 386 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,200 Educational and and it's fun. 387 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:48,160 You know, people from outside of New York come to learn and also to enjoy the tourists 388 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,160 tourism. 389 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:50,160 Yeah. 390 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:55,080 I always call what we do an experience. 391 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,480 And it's kind of ironic to me because that was a word that I never really used until 392 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,800 I worked for Sands in Macau. 393 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,400 And we always talked about that as the integrated resort experience. 394 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,320 You're having entertainment and then you're having shopping and then you're going gambling 395 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,440 and then you have a hotel and all of that kind of stuff. 396 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,080 And here it's it's in a similar way. 397 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,440 It's just a very multifaceted thing. 398 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:26,360 You know, you can of course you can book a recital and come in, practice, do your recital 399 00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:28,480 and then leave. 400 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:33,720 And you can do that whether you're a pianist or you're a two hundred person choir. 401 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:41,000 But the the the value in what we do is that you're giving an opportunity to be on the 402 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:47,360 world's one of the world's greatest stages, if not this country's greatest stage, to folks 403 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:53,360 from every walk of life, every socioeconomic background, really. 404 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:59,240 And without a sort of aesthetic judgment as to what they can and cannot program, you know, 405 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,880 as long as it fits within a time limit that we have for every program and the orchestra 406 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:10,440 that we contract, which is a 60 person professional orchestra, we will do that. 407 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:19,120 And even though the choirs do the members pay to perform, essentially, they they have 408 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:24,880 an experience that is, you know, by and large, you can be in New York for five days and go 409 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:29,760 shopping on Madison Avenue and spend a heck of a lot more money doing so. 410 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:35,520 I would say every year I get a call from one or two teachers that tell me that they were 411 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:40,960 students on a concert that in America did in 1987 or 88. 412 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,960 And now they want to bring their choir. 413 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:48,660 So there's a huge legacy to what has been achieved just by doing these concerts and 414 00:29:48,660 --> 00:29:52,720 having people having all of these people. 415 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,600 We estimated somewhere around one hundred and fifty thousand individuals have passed 416 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,400 through the stage over these 38 years. 417 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:07,280 So a lot of people that wouldn't have had that opportunity if Carnegie Hall's internal 418 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,400 concert season had to come a knocking, you know, really. 419 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:18,040 And maybe they and by and large, many of them have deserved that that opportunity and then 420 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:19,040 come. 421 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,840 So, yeah, been a wonderful thing. 422 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,880 And if anything, I think it's a motivating experience to, you know, when I I remember 423 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,880 when I was when I first came to this country, I went to Kansas to study. 424 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:35,720 And but Carnegie Hall, I mean, I came I was out here on tour at first before I moved to 425 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:36,760 Kansas. 426 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,480 But then they perform in all like Lincoln Center, you know, but we didn't get to perform 427 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:41,480 in Carnegie Hall. 428 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:47,520 And partially, it's just like to me, like to play in Carnegie Hall, you have to be somebody. 429 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:48,520 Right. 430 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,920 Like that was in Kansas and they were going on this tour. 431 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:57,000 And I think I remember I was being chosen as a conductor, the only female conductor. 432 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,640 And they were like, oh, you could go on this tour and we're going to have a concert. 433 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,200 It was like too good to be true that I I couldn't even trust it. 434 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,080 So I actually never came. 435 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,160 And I actually later on auditioned at NYU. 436 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,000 And I remember I was sitting across the street from the deli. 437 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:18,840 Like whenever we had a second, you know, I would just like observe all the glory in Carnegie 438 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:19,840 Hall. 439 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:24,520 And then I remember there was Kissin that just came out of like the rehearsal hall or 440 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:25,520 something with his students. 441 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,240 And I was like in shock. 442 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,880 And my friend was like taking a picture of me. 443 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:34,640 So I'm curious to know what was like for you to be inside. 444 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,520 You know, I mean, I remember I finally played in Carnegie Hall when I was like 28. 445 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,960 It was like finally a dream come true. 446 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,920 But for you, you were there all the time. 447 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:44,920 No. 448 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:45,920 Well, it's an interesting note. 449 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,120 You mentioned him. 450 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,120 You mentioned Kissin. 451 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,600 I mean, I remember once being at the hall and I was right at the backstage door talking 452 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,880 with talking with the owner of our company. 453 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,720 And he just kind of stormed in and walked past us. 454 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,520 And I had to do a double take that it was him walking in. 455 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:08,440 But you know, I went backstage then to Stern Hall, the largest hall. 456 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:14,680 And he was they have, you know, TV cameras that are monitors for all of the halls in 457 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,640 the backstage of each one of them. 458 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:22,600 And I happened to see that he was practicing in I think it was Zang Hill Hall at the time. 459 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:28,640 And the some of the stagehands were at the you know, at the mixing board and all of that. 460 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,200 And we we hadn't started our own dress rehearsal yet. 461 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,480 We had, you know, three or four hundred people waiting to go. 462 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:36,920 And I just turned to some of the stagehands. 463 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,080 I said, you know, was that him? 464 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,600 And they confirmed it was. 465 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,900 And then we had been doing a dress rehearsal for four, maybe three, four hours. 466 00:32:44,900 --> 00:32:46,720 And I went back and he was still there. 467 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,080 And every time I had gone downstairs, he was still there. 468 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,280 And I said to the one of the head stagehands, I said, has he moved? 469 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,900 And they said, no, no, no, we give him the space for eight hours. 470 00:32:57,900 --> 00:32:59,960 And he he doesn't he doesn't move. 471 00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,840 He barely gets up to run, you know, run to the restroom. 472 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:03,920 He doesn't eat. 473 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,320 He just practices straight through. 474 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,240 And he has eight or 10 hours and he's done and he comes back the next day and does the 475 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,240 concert. 476 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,000 And I mean, that's wonderful. 477 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,280 You know, I mean, that is sort of it's what we've all been. 478 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:23,680 Taught or shown or, you know, kind of shown as a young child, I think, and as we as we 479 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:29,680 grow up and go through music school, that that is what a musician is, you know. 480 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,320 And I think the experience that I've had with Mid America is that, you know, you start to 481 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:38,960 see the value in more than just this focused definition of what an artist is. 482 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,400 I mean, there's value in all sides of it, but there's a spectrum, right? 483 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:48,560 There's people that, you know, perform in recitals from, you know, Texarkana to Tacoma 484 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,160 and to, you know, Santa Fe to wherever. 485 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,280 And they make beautiful music. 486 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:59,500 You know, I mean, the the great thing about Mid America in a way is we're not in the business 487 00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:04,120 of judging who can and cannot have this experience. 488 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:10,540 And I thought when I joined, I remember thinking to myself because I I hold myself to a pretty 489 00:34:10,540 --> 00:34:12,100 high standard performing. 490 00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:15,480 I thought, you know, what are the concerts going to be like that we do? 491 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:20,800 You know, and I have seen some that, you know, went off better than others to a certain degree. 492 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:26,200 But I amazingly, I've never seen us do a concert that I didn't think was Carnegie worthy, at 493 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,200 least above a certain bar. 494 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:34,920 But that hall just has a way of kind of catalyzing everyone that's performing there to up their 495 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,600 game, you know, to as an understatement. 496 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:42,840 Yeah, I mean, I remember some of those friends that came back from the performance, you know, 497 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,280 and I didn't know growing up in Asia, it's like you have to make up your decision on 498 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,200 what you want to do when you're like three years old. 499 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:49,200 Right. 500 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,440 But then I remember a couple of friends, they weren't even sure if they were going to be 501 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:53,440 a musician yet. 502 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,040 But after the tour, they came back, they were like, yeah, this is what I'm going to do. 503 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:02,120 And they make a very successful career, you know, I think partially because of this experience. 504 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,720 So you guys are doing amazing work over there. 505 00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:09,600 Well, it's good to see a young generation be able to be there too. 506 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,160 I mean, I will say it always makes me laugh. 507 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:18,240 The backstage at Carnegie is of course, very, very small. 508 00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:21,640 And you know, being built 130 years ago. 509 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,500 And so all of their standby rooms that they have for, they call them orchestra rooms, 510 00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:31,840 but they're really just standby rooms are on floors that are sometimes five or six flights 511 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,880 of stairs above the stage level. 512 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:44,060 And we are because we have choirs that are oftentimes 100 to 200, 250 people, we have 513 00:35:44,060 --> 00:35:47,880 to line everybody up in their rows to get them on stage properly. 514 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,160 We can't have them take elevators, of course. 515 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,440 And so, you know, we're always lining people up and walking them downstairs. 516 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,440 And you know, the young students, especially when they're in high school are always, you 517 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,680 know, always venting about having to walk up and down stairs. 518 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,480 Ironically, it's usually not the adults, it's usually the kids. 519 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,120 And I always tell them, you know, many famous people took these stairs. 520 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,600 I told them Vladimir Horowitz took these stairs, Edith Theoph took these stairs. 521 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,680 I try and relate and I say the Beatles took these stairs. 522 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:21,440 And by and large, high schoolers nowadays don't know who the Beatles were, you know. 523 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:28,280 Wow, but you know, as hearing your stories, like, you know, it's not just performers comes 524 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:33,560 in different shapes and sizes, you know, as you mentioned about kissing, being eight hours 525 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:38,880 in that room and practicing, but also there are a bunch of people from different states 526 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,520 and perform at Carnegie Hall. 527 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:47,160 It's like a really people's place, right, to express themselves and the Carnegie Hall 528 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:48,160 is. 529 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:56,040 But also there are people like yourself managing those events and backstage. 530 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,880 So you are a musician and then that's part you're part of it. 531 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:07,080 So it takes a village really to have that amazing experience, either whether either 532 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:12,400 as a musician or as an audience to experience the whole thing. 533 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:13,400 It takes a village. 534 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,800 And that's what you are describing. 535 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,160 So that's very encouraging to know as a musician. 536 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:25,320 It's not this one thing that you are supposed you meant to do, but there are a whole lot 537 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,240 as a musician you can do right. 538 00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:34,320 Well, you know, when I was in Macau and I was finally managing, you know, at the height 539 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:39,920 of our department size, we had about 110 artists. 540 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,920 Plus we had a management team of about five to six people that were all direct reports 541 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,400 to me. 542 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:55,880 And so I found myself at the age of 25, 26, responsible for the operation of a department 543 00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:02,440 that size, plus all of these very talented, kind, deserving people. 544 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:10,680 And it always struck me that, A, I knew that my success as a manager trying to accomplish 545 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,460 something was really based upon the success of all the people that were working with me 546 00:38:15,460 --> 00:38:17,720 and for me. 547 00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:21,040 And I also realized that, you know, everyone who was working there was probably spending 548 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:27,400 more of their working day at work than they were spending at home. 549 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:34,400 And so I kind of took it very, I tried to take it very seriously, the obligation to 550 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:41,120 create a good working environment and create a pathway for people to grow, to learn new 551 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,520 skills, to stay. 552 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:49,160 I developed a saying when I was there, I called it facilitating other people's success. 553 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,040 And that's what we try and do at Mid America now. 554 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:58,080 I tell everyone that we bring on who's helping to manage and produce that, you know, we're 555 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:03,080 not the ones making the music on the stage, but we play a very vital role in making this 556 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:04,080 all happen. 557 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:09,900 And, you know, as you said, you came in, there's, we have folks that, you know, I would say 558 00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:14,560 probably the majority of people that are on our concerts, you know, this might be the 559 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,840 first time that they're ever in New York City. 560 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:21,000 So there's a whole nother element to all of this, which is, which goes beyond even the 561 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,280 performance. 562 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:28,680 It's a cultural experience, it's an educational experience just by getting out of their hometowns, 563 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,400 you know, getting out of the states where they live. 564 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:38,000 And since many of them are young, it's their first view of, you know, a different environment, 565 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,280 you know, certainly. 566 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,080 It's kind of a cultural exchange, right? 567 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,680 It is, especially when you're trying to walk everyone through Grand Central Station, you 568 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,680 know, eight in the morning. 569 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:55,000 Yeah, well, New York has its own culture that is certainly unique. 570 00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:00,080 Now we can't avoid this question, so we have to get to it. 571 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,720 So it's about COVID. 572 00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:13,040 So how are you guys doing and how did your company handle it when, you know, first we 573 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:20,800 received the news and what has been the most challenging thing experienced, obviously halting 574 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,360 its operation itself in itself is extremely difficult. 575 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,600 But you know, how are you handling all the bookings and so forth? 576 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:37,480 Well, it was, I mean, 2020 was just a very difficult year, of course, you know, for every 577 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:45,840 musician and along the whole spectrum, I mean, being a concert producer, being a musician, 578 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:52,400 we of course had to because by the New York State guidelines and the New York City guidelines 579 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,400 and executive orders, the hole was closed for the entirety of the year. 580 00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:03,160 So and it's been closed, of course, this year up until the fall. 581 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:11,440 So we have had to kind of chart our way through two years of no concerts and two years then 582 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,000 of no revenue. 583 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:21,200 And so, you know, we were I remember clearly after that phone call I had with you in March 584 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:26,720 of last year, and, you know, I said to myself sitting down at the desk in that quality and 585 00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:29,720 I said, you know, I'm really going to need to go back on Monday morning and I need to 586 00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:35,000 sit down with, you know, our heads of finance and our heads of, you know, program development 587 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,120 and these things. 588 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:41,800 And we have to chart some way forward because this is going to be quite difficult. 589 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:48,200 You know, we took all of the performances that were set to take place in 2020 and we 590 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:53,360 superimposed them on a calendar of 2021. 591 00:41:53,360 --> 00:42:02,360 And we offered every group the ability to move to 2021 or to receive some partial refund 592 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:08,280 of monies that would not have been spent going into the actual production of the concert. 593 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:13,880 The vast majority chose to stick it out for a year. 594 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:19,640 And plane tickets removed, hotels removed, etc. 595 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:25,720 Now with the cancellation of Carnegie's 2021 season, we had to do the exact same thing. 596 00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:31,840 It was the worst deja vu ever of having to go back to everyone and explain the same situation 597 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,280 over and over again. 598 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,960 I think the vast majority of groups appreciated the fact that even if we could have done a 599 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:45,920 concert in some shape and form, which of course now is not the case, we know now, but in December 600 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,320 and November of last year, we weren't sure. 601 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:53,000 You know, we were very communicative about saying, look, when you're here, can you eat 602 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,040 at a restaurant with 20 students? 603 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,640 Can you be on a bus with 20 students? 604 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,040 Do you know how you're going to be able to do a hotel accommodation if you're booking 605 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,400 it on your own? 606 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:05,400 There were so many. 607 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:11,320 I mean, I think one of the themes of this year has been, and this pandemic is just the 608 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:21,480 lack of assuredness that life as we know it can be normal. 609 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:26,000 And so, you know, the crews that we do after every concert, the boats are humongous. 610 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:31,700 There are three and four levels and they have the seating capacity of 600 people. 611 00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:36,060 In any other year, that would be a pretty awesome experience. 612 00:43:36,060 --> 00:43:40,400 In a year like this, it seems like that is, you know, the last place people would want 613 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:41,400 to be. 614 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:42,400 Right. 615 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:50,440 So we were, again, fortunate that the majority of groups moved over from 2021 to 2022. 616 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,680 And now we're actively developing that season. 617 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:59,480 And it's been a good experience. 618 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:05,360 It's been remarkable that we have so much interest to travel and to perform with live 619 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:06,360 music again. 620 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:12,720 You know, we're being cautiously optimistic because I have conversations every day with 621 00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:17,960 educators around the country who are still waiting on school boards to approve travel, 622 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:22,480 are still waiting for the school board to say they can take children outside of the 623 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:31,000 state for universities to end lockdowns for various COVID outbreaks they have on campus. 624 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,760 So you know, we still have to kind of wait and see. 625 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,300 But we're very, very optimistic with the amount of desire. 626 00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:41,040 It's just overwhelming at this point. 627 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:50,040 Has this pandemic changed the way the company operates or any biggest lessons you learned? 628 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:54,520 And maybe you can change that toward the future if you could share. 629 00:44:54,520 --> 00:45:00,480 I think, you know, one of the things that we have that we have certainly learned from 630 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:05,680 this and that we're trying to update, too, is the way in which people register. 631 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:11,100 You know, we've understood that people haven't been rehearsing, that people the mechanisms 632 00:45:11,100 --> 00:45:18,120 by which people plan these concerts has changed, of course, dramatically over the year. 633 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,720 Both choirs aren't rehearsing, they can't talk to each other, they can't disseminate 634 00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:23,100 information that way. 635 00:45:23,100 --> 00:45:27,240 They also can't collect registrations and deposits that way. 636 00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:34,400 So one of the things we're very thankful for doing is that we've we have implemented an 637 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:41,080 online platform for individual choristers or family and friends and school chaperones 638 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:46,660 and all of that to register online, which is something that amazingly for 38 years we 639 00:45:46,660 --> 00:45:48,100 had never had at the company. 640 00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:51,960 We had we were always able to do everything by ensembles. 641 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:58,600 So we're really hoping that with a larger social media presence and more marketing directed 642 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:05,160 towards individuals participating in concerts, we might see quite a dramatic shift. 643 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:09,320 I think it's going to take a few years, but we're going to see a shift in the number of 644 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:14,200 individual people seeing a concert on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter that they want to 645 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:19,600 participate in and being able to just sign up and do that, just like you would buy a 646 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,800 ticket to go to Paris or a ticket to go to Beijing. 647 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,840 Wonderful. 648 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:27,080 Last question. 649 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:32,200 So any advice for young musicians and composers? 650 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:41,840 I mean, I think just in general, you want to kind of be you want to keep an open mind 651 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,680 in everything that you do. 652 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:51,240 And I think, you know, trying to find trying to grow your own skills and grow your experiences 653 00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:58,900 is really key to just your own personal and professional development. 654 00:46:58,900 --> 00:47:04,320 You know, I always would tell any any young persons that are just getting out of college 655 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:10,800 or school that going abroad and living abroad is is a remarkable experience. 656 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:17,200 And it gets you out of your comfort zone and it forces you to rethink your own home country 657 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:21,320 and how you were raised. 658 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,920 And it gets you to see things from other people's perspectives. 659 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:31,160 So I think that that is every young person should do that if they're able to. 660 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:38,720 And another thing that I always found so important at Sands certainly was we always asked our 661 00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:43,920 employees to, you know, we would take care of you and we would help you and we would 662 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:44,920 support you. 663 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,080 But, you know, please, as much as you can say yes, if we ask you to do something that's 664 00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:56,120 a little bit outside of your outside of your wheelhouse, outside of your your main view, 665 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:57,120 it would not. 666 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,080 I mean, it's kind of interesting. 667 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:06,100 It wouldn't, I guess, surprise surprise us at this time that among the people that hailed 668 00:48:06,100 --> 00:48:13,280 from various countries, you know, among those people that we stopped hiring first were oftentimes 669 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:19,040 young Americans who were extremely talented and extremely educated, but wouldn't do anything 670 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,880 beyond what their contract asked them to do. 671 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:27,080 Not one minute more, not one note more of playing. 672 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:34,800 And so the you know, and I have no fault, of course, with folks that want to protect 673 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,480 themselves in various ways in the workplace. 674 00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,800 I think that's extremely important. 675 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,760 At the same time, it's very hard to it's very hard to move anywhere. 676 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,520 And it's very hard to develop and grow. 677 00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:50,440 If you're not willing to do something that's, you know, you haven't been trained for 10 678 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,760 years to do it, you know, you have to have a little bit of faith in yourself that you 679 00:48:54,760 --> 00:49:01,400 can accomplish more than what is just your normal everyday thing. 680 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,600 Great. 681 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,040 Thank you, James. 682 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,040 All right. 683 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:12,440 So the piano pods rapid fire questions for James Redkay. 684 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:13,440 Question number one. 685 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,440 Are you ready? 686 00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:19,480 Ready, ready, set and raring to go. 687 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,480 What is your comfort food? 688 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,080 Pasta I would say. 689 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,080 Cats or dogs? 690 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,080 Naturally cats, as you know me. 691 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:31,160 Yes. 692 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:39,280 What is your word or words to live by? 693 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:40,280 Service. 694 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:41,280 Great. 695 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:42,280 That's great. 696 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:43,980 All right. 697 00:49:43,980 --> 00:49:50,360 What is the most important quality you look for in people? 698 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:56,000 I would say just a general professionalism in terms of being there, showing up on time 699 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,280 and doing what you're asked to do. 700 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:00,600 Great. 701 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:08,160 What is the worst quality in people you want to stay away from? 702 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:14,720 I think having an overinflated sense of and sense of yourself and your own ego. 703 00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:16,880 All right. 704 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:18,080 I will continue. 705 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:23,560 What is something that makes you happy? 706 00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:24,560 Music in general. 707 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:30,960 If I didn't still have a piano at home and play, life would not be quite the same. 708 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,840 That's a good answer. 709 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:38,320 What is your pet peeve? 710 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,280 I think kind of the same. 711 00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:44,160 Well I would say not being able to write an email very well. 712 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:45,800 That's always a big one for me. 713 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,840 After you read plenty every single day. 714 00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:55,160 Name three people who inspired you, living or dead. 715 00:50:55,160 --> 00:51:01,120 That's a very good question. 716 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,680 I would say Abraham Lincoln. 717 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:08,760 That's always a great, I'm a big history buff, so that's a huge one for me. 718 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:14,480 I would say Glenn Gould is one of my all-time favorite pianists. 719 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:21,360 I would actually have to say my lovely wife Tao, who is a great inspiration and has accomplished 720 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,880 a lot in her own life. 721 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,360 And congratulations again. 722 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:31,000 He just got married. 723 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:37,560 Which historic figure or composer do you want to learn or take lessons from if he or she 724 00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:38,560 were alive? 725 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,840 That's a good question. 726 00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:46,240 I think that actually if I had to meet and interact with any of them, the most interesting 727 00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:52,720 for me would be Skriyaben, I think who was just a phenomenal pianist, an amazing composer, 728 00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:58,560 and sadly so many, no one really took up his mantle, I think very fully in terms of what 729 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,560 he was trying to accomplish. 730 00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:02,800 I see. 731 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:08,240 And which historic figure or composer do you wish to hang out at the bar if he or she were 732 00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:09,240 alive? 733 00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:12,160 Definitely Mozart. 734 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:16,840 I think he would be the most fun. 735 00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:18,840 Bach would give me homework, I'm sure. 736 00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,920 Work, work, work, as hard as you can. 737 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:29,680 All right, James, name one piece in your current playlist. 738 00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,520 I would say John Adams' Dharma at the Big Sur. 739 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:37,800 It's a wonderful piece of music and a favorite of mine. 740 00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,240 Excellent. 741 00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:42,840 What about a book that you are currently reading? 742 00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:48,840 I'm actually reading, I'm rereading Doris Kearns Goodwin's Team of Rivals, which I have 743 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,640 on the back there, but I have it on my Kindle. 744 00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:57,440 And for anybody that is interested in management or learning how to deal with people, it's 745 00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,240 a great, great read. 746 00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:00,240 Oh, fantastic. 747 00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:04,200 You only get one song or piece to listen to for the rest of your life. 748 00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,200 What is it? 749 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:14,600 Wow, that is a difficult, difficult question. 750 00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,560 Like everybody's nightmare. 751 00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:21,720 I know. 752 00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:25,160 I don't know if I could, I don't know, there's just so many that I don't know if I could 753 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:26,160 pick one. 754 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:27,160 Just pick one. 755 00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:31,120 Name the first thing that comes to your mind. 756 00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,560 I was actually thinking of Perz, Furlina. 757 00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:38,040 It's a small one of his first works for piano. 758 00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:39,040 Beautiful piece. 759 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:40,040 Yep. 760 00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:41,040 Yep. 761 00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:42,040 All right. 762 00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:43,040 And fill in the blank. 763 00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:47,040 Music is blank. 764 00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:48,040 Music is cathartic. 765 00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:49,040 Lovely. 766 00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:50,040 Ding ding. 767 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:55,240 That's the end of rapid fire questions. 768 00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:56,240 You are the winner. 769 00:53:56,240 --> 00:53:59,240 You win, you win, you win. 770 00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:01,480 I'll pick up my prize. 771 00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:06,280 This concludes this episode of the PianoPod and thank you, James, for joining our show 772 00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:10,040 today and sharing your wisdom and expertise. 773 00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:13,700 And thank you to our audience for tuning in. 774 00:54:13,700 --> 00:54:19,520 If you enjoyed today's episode, please read and review on whatever pasting platform you 775 00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:20,520 use. 776 00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:25,960 If you are watching it from YouTube, please hit the thumbs up button and be sure to subscribe 777 00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,560 to our channel. 778 00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:32,720 You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. 779 00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:36,200 The links are in the description below. 780 00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,440 And if you have feedback for us, we'd love to hear it in the comments. 781 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:46,720 You can DM us or you can always email us at the pianopodnyc at gmail.com. 782 00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:50,760 Hope to see you for the next episode of the PianoPod. 783 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:51,760 Bye everyone. 784 00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:52,760 Bye everybody. 785 00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:53,760 Bye. 786 00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:54,760 Thank you, James. 787 00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:55,760 Thank you, James. 788 00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:56,760 Thank you for having me. 789 00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:57,760 Thank you. 790 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:26,760 Thank you.