You are listening to the PianoPod, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry
about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century.
Welcome back to the PianoPod.
I'm Clara Zhang.
I'm Yukimi Song.
And welcome to the newly remixed TPP.
This is exciting because we are starting a new format today.
That's right.
In this episode, we are inviting a guest co-host besides our regular guest speaker who will
be assisting us during the show.
So Clara, please introduce us to our guest co-host of the day.
That's right.
Sure.
I'm very pleased to present my dearest friend and geeky Sony.
She is a lawyer by day and a beautiful Greek goddess, right?
Greek and jazz singer by night.
And she is also very, very dear friend of mine and thanks for being on the show.
Thank you, Clara, for the introduction and thank you, Yukimi.
Thank you both for having me on the PianoPod.
Very exciting to be here.
That's right.
So I met and through our common friend, my best friend, Yasmin.
Shout out to Yasmin.
She's a beautiful clarinetist.
And yeah, and then recently, Yukimi and I actually did a gig together in Connecticut.
And then on the way there, we were just thinking we were looking for an entertainment lawyer.
And she were like, oh my gosh, we have this beautiful lawyer sitting right here.
We always think that she's actually also a lawyer on top of me.
So we all came together.
One thing about lawyers is that we can always connect to other people.
I don't practice entertainment law, although I'm learning a lot about it now.
But I thought of Ricky Hernandez.
He's great at what he does.
And it was great to make the connection and have him on.
It was just so beautiful.
It was so perfect.
Everything just lined up.
And then we haven't connected for years.
And somehow it just brought us together.
So we're curious, maybe in a few words, Ricky, you can tell us a little bit of what you do
or how do you manage?
Some days I manage better than others.
But like you said, I am a practicing real estate attorney by day.
I do mostly real estate, but I also handle business transactions, wills and estates and
things of that nature.
And my side hustle, which is kind of taking over my life right now, is art and creating
my own music.
I sing jazz, like you mentioned, but I also do traditional Greek music.
And I try to blend the two genres together.
So I guess you could call it world music.
Currently, I'm working on my album, which should be coming out in the spring of 2022.
I'm very excited.
It's going to contain original tracks and some covers as well.
And I'm very excited that I'm collaborating with some amazing composers and good friends
of mine.
So stay tuned for that.
I hope to perform with you ladies very soon because that Broadway themed Halloween party
we did was a lot of fun.
I know.
I went to the theater and I went to the theater.
It was a great year.
Yeah.
So we are available for your holiday parties.
So holler.
Okay, guys.
Yes.
Right.
Yeah.
So, you know, I mean, being a musician, you know, you inspire me, Aguilica, because you
are being a lawyer, you know, make a living, but also you're a serious musician.
So, you know, being a musician is like owning a business, right?
Absolutely.
Yeah, and there's an old school way of thinking that music is an art and should be protected.
And to make a business out of art is almost like a crime.
But I kind of disagree, you know, because most of us musicians and artists are freelancers
and you know, and you as much as you belong to law firm, Aguilica, but you are also you
know what it's like to be a freelancer, right?
Because you're freelancing.
And so being a freelancer means you have to promote yourself, manage income by yourself,
manage so many other aspects of life at collaboration, tax, copyrights for streaming, such and such.
So now more than ever, I feel like because so many things are so accessible by social
media now you can actually manage our own brands, which means, you know, we are actually
really responsible for our own brands and we need expertise, right?
And you know, what I'm learning in my short lived career as an artist so far is that no
one's going to care more about your business than you and no one's going to care more about
your art.
So it's important to have a good team like we're going to discuss, right?
And to delegate because like you said, we have to wear so many different hats and you
have to worry about the art, but you also have to promote, you also have to, you know,
book gigs for yourself and tours and things like that.
So you have to delegate.
It's important to have people on your side that you can trust, but it is a business.
Yeah.
And it's all, it really comes down to you and how you manage your time.
Exactly.
And that's why we have to invite a legal expert to our show to ask questions.
And we are so happy to have you, Nikki, as our co-host and you can help us really ask
the right questions when we're a little clueless and maybe interrupt some of the legal terms
of us.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
So we're very excited to have our guest, Mr. Ricardo Hernandez, an attorney in the
national office of Shackleford, Bowen McKendley and Norton LLP, whose experience primarily
lies in the field of entertainment, intellectual property, and corporate law, with a broad
knowledge base in the areas of music, technology, commercial lending, mergers, and acquisitions,
and day-to-day corporate matters.
Let's welcome Mr. Hernandez to the show.
Hey, welcome.
Thank you for having me.
Hello.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Oh my God.
It's so early in the morning.
Thank you.
Yes.
You got such dedicated lawyers out there.
So how are you today?
I'm good.
Really good.
I think this time of the year for entertainment attorneys is typically pretty busy.
The music industry shuts down pretty hard in December with people coming off tour and
not really doing too much.
There's no new releases.
And so from this time, like early, late October until Thanksgiving is usually a big push,
but it's fun.
It's good work.
So are you going to a show or not after work?
Are you going to party?
I did not.
I'm not going to a show today.
I did get to see, I don't know if anyone knows, Dennis Quaid is now performing music.
Wow, the actor.
The actor.
Yep.
He was playing in town on Monday and he was fantastic.
Just an absolute personality as you can probably imagine, but a good musician as well.
And so that was a really fun one.
And he's a client of the firm in certain capacities.
But yeah, so the show stuff is a lot of fun, but so is the entertainment stuff.
Oh my goodness.
Nashville sounds like a very poppin' place that I definitely want to visit in terms of
music happening.
Oh please.
Anytime you guys want to come, I'd love to take you around.
It's a lot of fun.
I moved here in 2014 and even in the last, what, seven years, it has changed entirely.
I mean, just the entire city is, I mean, I'm looking out the window right now and there's
like seven different cranes building new buildings.
It's just, oh, the city is absolutely booming, but it does still have that kind of like Southern
charm feel to it, which is part of the reason I moved down and wanted to be part of this
industry in this legal field.
It's just a good town.
Until you experience it, it's really hard to fully put pinpoint why.
I was there for my 30th birthday.
I won't say how old, I don't know, maybe 30.
But I was on a helicopter ride, or maybe it's not even a helicopter, it's a little bigger.
It fits like four people and then on the plane.
And so we just went all around the Nashville, Tennessee area.
We were staying in the house in the mountains.
I was like, this is a perfect place for practicing piano.
Nobody can hear me.
But I remember even at the time it was happening.
Everything was very different from New York entertainment, especially for us classical
musicians.
I didn't see a whole lot of classical musician music.
Yeah.
I mean, even the entertainment scene is changing pretty rapidly.
So whereas 10 years ago, 15 years ago, it was primarily seen as a country spot.
If you want to do country music, you would come here and try to get a deal with a country
label and a singer songwriter.
So publishing has, Nashville has deep, deep roots in the singer songwriter community of
many different genres.
Probably the exception being hip hop and rap, since we're so close to Atlanta.
If that's your space, they kind of would be attracted there.
That being said, in the last, I mean, really five years, because of how many people are
moving to town and trying to find opportunities, the scene has entirely changed.
And not to say that the country and the American and the bluegrass stuff has gone away.
It's still there.
But there's a lot more pop.
There's even a lot more punk, a lot more, even a little bit of R&B and hip hop.
The scene is rapidly changing because the city is growing and there's just a lot more
opportunities.
And as that happens, you're just seeing a bit of a culture shift, which I think everyone's
a little nervous about.
But at the same time, I think it's good for the city.
So I'm curious, like, who are you representing as an entertainment lawyer?
Yeah.
So I'm an attorney.
So my client, well, Anglici, first and foremost.
Most importantly, right.
But being a younger attorney, my roster is a little bit smaller.
I've got a few clients that I really love.
I've got a singer songwriter in town named Shane Weissman, who's just, I think he's going
to absolutely set the industry on fire.
So plug for him.
But the nice thing about being at a law firm like Shackelford is I work for attorneys who
have decades upon decades of experience and I get to work for them.
So although not my clients, still clients that I work on, I mean, we do.
We have a lot of kind of independent record labels, publishing houses, entities that will,
like promoters and entities that run festivals.
And then we have a lot of artists as well.
So we do work for one of the members of Dan and Shay, Shay Mooney, Anne Wilson of Hart
will do a lot of work for.
Cage the Elephant is one of my partner's clients.
Ian Munsik, who's in the country space and is doing really, really well.
LV Shane is one of our clients who represent his publishers.
So we're really close with him and just a lot of just different, different acts.
Tay Money.
So is anyone on TikTok?
Yes, you know, I need to get on that.
My mother is the sound.
She understood the assignment or I understood the assignment.
That's Tay Money and that's one of our artists and she's absolutely blowing up.
She has been before that TikTok or that TikTok has absolutely helped.
And she's one of the best.
Her music is great, but as a personality and as a person, she's just one of my favorite
people.
I got the opportunity to meet her when we were visiting one of our main offices in Dallas.
I was visiting our main office in Dallas and she's from that area.
So we got to a partner of mine and myself got to have dinner with her and sit down and
just talk with her.
Who is your absolute favorite artist?
My absolute favorite artist?
Oh my God.
That's such a tough one.
I think it depends on the week, right?
I think music to me is such an emotional thing that it really does depend on how I'm feeling
that week.
You know, I mean, if I'm part Cuban, so if I'm really feeling like I need to go back
to the Cuban roots, you know, I'll listen to like the...
What is it?
What's the...
God, I just got one of the records.
The Social Club.
Oh yeah, the Buena Vista Social Club.
Yeah, I love them.
I will throw that record on repeat and in fact, oftentimes if I need to just focus,
I'll put it in the background and just run that through.
So that's really, really great.
If I'm feeling more like going back to my middle school days, I'll listen to Follow
Up Boy on repeat or Taylor Swift on repeat and perfect balance like early Taylor Swift.
Really gets the people going.
I mean, it really just depends on the week.
It's like picking your favorite child, I guess, right?
I think some people can do it.
I definitely cannot.
But are you a musician yourself?
I played clarinet growing up and I loved that and I think that's kind of what started my
love for music.
But no, I'm not a practicing musician.
I wish I was.
If I won the lottery tomorrow, I think that's the first thing I would start to work on is
to get back into doing music.
But I wholeheartedly enjoy assisting musicians in my legal capacity instead.
Music and law, I mean, for us, it almost feels like in the beginning, it's not really together.
As musicians, we just think about our craft of practicing and stay in the practice room.
How many hours did you put in?
We had to deal with lawyers, with immigration stuff.
So we are curious.
Do you work with immigration lawyers at all or artists helping them with immigration matters?
Yeah, absolutely.
I'll preface that answer by saying the cool thing in my ear part about being an entertainment
attorney is there really isn't one area of the law that we are fluent in.
We have to, one of my mentors said it really, really well, entertainment attorneys are just
attorneys with really cool clients.
It really is.
At the end of the day, we are just practicing the law.
I've got knowledge in obviously pure entertainment and IP, copyrights, record deals, publishing
deals, but I also do a little bit of real estate when a client needs to hire or sell
a business.
I do some corporate law.
I don't do any immigration, but we do often have to work because of touring issues and
because of people coming over or going to other countries.
We often have to work with immigration attorneys to make sure that our clients don't set up
a tour and then suddenly can't get in the country.
So that's just something that we have to think about.
Absolutely, I think one of the most important parts for us is making sure that we build
our network so that in the event our clients have an issue that we can't tackle, we know
who to call.
As much as I wish I knew all of the law, it's just impossible to be an expert in everything.
So I think that getting that network and building that team of other attorneys or just other
experts who can assist you in the event the client needs the knee, that's kind of where
we have value.
Yeah, of course.
And then we need that because sometimes in the beginning we are so lost.
I remember I got my artist visa and the green card that way.
As an extraordinary artist, the first time I went to a lawyer, he was like, did you win
the Nobel award yet?
I'm like, do musicians do that?
I didn't know that was a possibility, but somehow I got my visa and everything.
He was like, all right, you keep on fighting that.
You just keep on doing it.
And then at one point I felt like one of my lawyers was like my best friend because that
was the person I was talking to every single day to get me through that little part.
So wow.
It can be very overwhelming in the beginning and artists have to wear so many different
hats.
So it's good.
It's very important to have a good lawyer on your side.
I wanted to ask about this, the hottest news of music industry right now, Taylor Swift,
and because she was on SNL and I watched a little bit of it.
And then also she was on like some kind of a late night talk show and she was saying
something about how she doesn't own her own songs.
And I was actually really shocked.
It's like, come on, she is Taytay, you know, she's got a big SNA.
And she doesn't even she wrote she wrote her own songs, but she doesn't own.
So and then this big name artist manager, he purchased her label company or the label
record label company that owns Taylor Swift songs were bought by this guy.
And then so she doesn't Taylor Swift was doesn't like it.
And so there's a dispute and she wants to use her own songs for certain things, but
she is not allowed to.
So she decided to have her version of like she decided to rerecord everything.
So what's going on?
What is this all about?
Yeah.
And it's such an I mean, it's such an interesting case and kind of, you know, a good test case
on rerecord restrictions.
And how important relationships can be when you're representing a label and you're representing
an artist.
So my understanding with the Taylor case is that, you know, although Taylor Swift is now
Taylor Swift, the music icon, I think people have to remember that at some point, Taylor
Swift was a brand new artist looking for her first deal.
You know, and when you're a brand new artist, as you all know, you have a lot less leverage.
And so when you have less leverage, you kind of have to go in and accept more industry
standard or even non industry standard terms just to get that deal going to kind of launch
your career.
And so my understanding was what happened was, you know, Taylor on her first deal or
first series of deals, signed deals whereby the record label owns her masters.
Right.
And so when we're talking about this case, when you use the word songs, you know, and
music copyrights, there's two sides to the copyright.
There's the composition, what you wrote, and then there's the master, which is the song
that you're actually hearing.
So on the record label side, she sold the copyrights to her masters, you know, and that's
not uncommon.
It's not uncommon for an artist, especially a younger artist to say, you know, I'm going
to get in advance.
You're going to get the ownership to the masters.
You're going to exploit those masters.
And even after this deal is done, I don't get those back.
Those are yours.
That is not uncommon and is actually pretty standard.
Now there are many, many different ways to construct that.
And I think I don't think the industry is ever going to go away from that, but I think
certain labels are more open to other structures.
But let's stick with Taylor's case.
So that happened.
Taylor's career obviously took off, became who she was.
The dispute she had was with a certain individual who then ended up owning her masters.
And I think the, I think she doesn't believe with the way that individual does business.
I think she has had some bad, bad experiences with that individual and just didn't feel
good about that individual making money off of her songs.
That being said, under the contract, my understanding was there wasn't a lot she could do about
it.
You know, that he owned them fair and square.
He purchased them.
Now, when you have master recordings, typically speaking in a deal or not, I mean, sometimes
the deal won't have any record, re-record restriction.
It'll say, you just can't record these again forever.
In her deal, I believe they had a re-record restriction of 10 years.
So they said, you will not re-record the composition in these masters for at least 10 years.
Now usually for a record label, that's good enough because you're going to exploit a lot,
a great majority of those receipts from the masters will happen in the first 10 years.
So you'll be able to recoup your monies.
You'll make some money off of it.
And also in my experience, it's somewhat uncommon for artists to then come back and re-record
these compositions, right?
You know, they've got a good relationship with the label.
Maybe they're still on the label and they'll say, okay, yeah, could I re-record these?
Yes.
Do I want to spend the money to re-record, re-market, do the whole thing?
No.
Taylor Swift saw, you know, this dispute was happening right around the time her re-record
restrictions coming up.
And I think she saw that as an opportunity to, for lack of a better way, to say it, stick
it to the man, right?
She said, fine, you can make money off of those.
I'm going to make my own and then I'm going to make money off of these, which is going
to directly cut into your profits.
And that's what she did.
You know, I think, I don't know that everyone would be as successful doing it, but it's
Taylor Swift.
You know, when you have the backing and the loyal following that she has, you can do something
like that.
Yeah.
And I think that's an interesting test case and it's a case that I think some labels are
concerned about, right?
Because if you have a 10 year re-record restriction and some, you know, successful artists sees
that and is like, wait, I can make more money off of re-recording my songs?
Why wouldn't I do that?
And I think that's going to be a concern.
And I think you're going to start to see some of those restrictions either get longer or
go away because of what Taylor has done.
Not the first time Taylor has sort of revolutionized the industry.
You know, a big part of the reason musicians are getting paid a little more under the Epic
Apple music model was because she left Spotify for, I don't know what, five years.
You know, when you have that type of voice, you can kind of make some monumental shifts.
So it's really interesting to see.
Yeah, it is.
And then it's amazing how she is, she's not only a, you know, big biggest singer, but
also she is a big influencer.
So she has this power of influencing, you know, her fans through social media.
And what she did was like, so here is the remastered or my version of my song and then
don't listen to the original version, but listen to this.
Then that's how her, her version of songs are now on the chart, Billboard chart, not
the original ones.
And that's actually really clever.
So even the biggest name like her, she, they have to fight their spot.
They have to fight their rights as an artist.
That was actually really quite inspiring.
Not that I'm honest, to be honest, I don't listen to her song very often.
I'm a classical musician.
So yeah, very boring.
So yeah, but I thought it was, you know, the fighting spirit.
I like that.
So I can think.
Can I just say, yeah, of course.
I've heard Clara and Yukimi play live and it's anything but boring.
Just saying.
Thank you.
That was a special concert, but you're very sweet.
Thank you.
But do you have any, anything like that?
I mean, I think it's her name, Taytay.
Even my 11 years old, they all know it.
You know, I mean, I think she's pretty setting.
I actually didn't know she goes by Taytay.
I live under a rock sometimes.
I didn't even know, but yeah, I mean, you know, just imagine these younger generation.
I mean, now they're going to look up to her.
You know what she did was, but Angelique, yeah, tell us.
I mean, you are also in this world really.
I mean, we are not going to compare, but you know, you have your album, you have your MTV
and you know, you work as a lawyer.
We don't know how many, you know, bodies you have to do all this.
Sometimes I wish there were more than 24 hours in a day, I'll say.
But in terms of what we were just discussing with Taylor Swift, I think it goes back to
what Ricky said in terms of being a beginning artist, it's all about leverage and it's all
about bargaining power and your clout.
So it's good for her that she has that following because it's not easy to do that when you're
just starting out.
And you know, there's people in the industry that want to take advantage of you, right?
There's a lot of ways to get screwed over in this industry and very few ways to be successful.
So well, we all have to learn to protect ourselves, right?
But I, you know, I mean, in the beginning, yeah, exactly.
Actually I heard I was telling Kimmy, I was like, you know, I think I heard Taylor Swift
live in person, like by accident in like 2012, I went to a Beethoven concert in Chicago,
you know, this like very famous music festival and the concert hall was, you know, beautiful
and this person was playing all Beethoven.
The concert hall was empty.
And I'm like, what is happening in the beginning?
That's the story of classical music.
Clouting for Taylor Swift because she had a show right after.
So people even bought a ticket for the concert left early to listen to her.
And you know, I didn't know who she was yet.
Who is this big person?
Why is she like, but then I realized it was Taylor Swift, you know.
But yeah, but in the beginning, you know, and I see this a lot with classical musicians
too, you know, we're again, I mean, we're big too, right?
Because we have to work our whole entire life for this livelihood of whatever.
And then, you know, I have friends that are like, I wouldn't say very respected composers,
you know.
But it's, I see the struggle, you know, they are self-funding, you know, they compose their
own music, they even record with the orchestra.
Sometimes they even play the solo part with the orchestra, yet not only, you know, paying
the orchestra or whatever when you are publishing the book, publishing the score, you know,
publishing the CD after whatever years, you know, and they are supposedly pretty big deal,
yet it's all self-funding, you know.
And these are people who even actually get to do it.
I'm just curious, how do you think, what could, you know, do you ever work with classical
musicians?
First of all, Ricky, have you dealt with anything like this?
You know, how can they even protect themselves?
I have not worked with classical musicians.
I think, again, the space that I'm in, the town that I'm in, I think it's just relatively
rare.
I am not, I am wholeheartedly for working with classical musicians.
It's a big plug for me.
But that being said, I mean, I think that the plight of a classical musician, while
probably more severe because of the industry, is not an uncommon one.
Whereas I think that a lot of songwriters and artists and musicians, it's difficult.
It's difficult to break through and to understand the ins and outs and really the pitfalls of
this industry because there are a lot of pitfalls.
There's a lot to learn.
There's a lot to understand.
And at the same time, kind of like you mentioned earlier, maybe before the podcast, like your
focus really needs to be on honing your craft.
I mean, how can you be the best you can be if you have to learn about copyright law,
touring, merchandise?
I mean, how could you do that?
It's nearly impossible.
And that's why I think, you know, some of the pieces of advice that I'll give to newer
musicians or artists is you have to build a team.
You know, and early on, that is difficult.
I mean, it's very difficult, but it has to be one of your biggest priorities because
then you can let somebody else work on that stuff that you don't necessarily want to or
need to be working on.
You know, I think typically in at least in the space outside of classical, I'm not exactly
familiar with classical, but typically you want to start with like a manager or a lawyer.
Those are one of the two first people you do because it almost starts out in necessity,
right?
I think everyone tries to go through it alone off the get go because your receipts are so
small, you know, that you need to.
You need to do it yourself so that you can keep that and feed yourself.
And I think everyone or most people understand that.
But at some point you will get to a level either because you're touring or because your
opportunities become great enough and the risk is high enough that you need to start
bringing in third parties and need to not be afraid to let someone else share that burden.
You know, that's what we're here for.
You know, and I think a lot of that too is don't be too quick to build that team either.
It's important to build that it's like dating, right?
I mean, you need to go out there and you can't, you don't just want to like get on a dating
app, find the first person you think you look like and let's go and be like, all right,
we're married.
Like that's typically how divorce might work.
Sometimes you get lucky, but sometimes you won't.
And finding your team, whether it's your manager, your artist, your agent, any of that, it's
the same way you have to go out.
You have to interview, get coffees, get dinners, talk to people.
If you put in the work early on to find someone who's going to really believe in you in your
career, that'll pay dividends down the road, but it needs to get done.
And I think that's kind of the biggest piece of advice for the younger attorneys is, or
younger attorneys, excuse me, and not even attorneys, newer artists.
And I say newer versus younger because I think people like to use the term young artists
or baby artists.
As y'all might know, I mean, artists range in all ages.
There is, you know, you can have a young artist, you can have old artists, they can still be
new.
So I say relative to the new artist and saying, as soon as you can build that team, and as
soon as you can do that, you know, as soon as you're feeling the pressure of like, the
administrative stuff is becoming too much for me to deal with, build that team.
You will see your career take off and allow yourself to focus on your craft and not have
to worry about all of the millions of other things that go on behind the scenes.
That's actually very well said.
Yeah.
And you know, that's actually a good reminder because as musicians, we're so used to doing
everything on our own, right?
We are told that you have to pay.
We're small businesses.
You know, I mean, you're paying them to them.
And also, you know, it's very difficult to really make the payment, you know, or get
paid in the beginning.
So you just feel like, and we are told to always work hard.
So you know, sometimes you're forgetting that you actually could have people help you out
and you know, maybe eventually with better benefit later.
Yeah, think of it as an investment, right?
Because it's an expense at first.
But like Ricky said, if these people believe in you and it's a good team that you have
on your back, it's worth it in the future in the long term.
Yeah.
And Julie, I'm curious, are you, do you, you have done some albums recently, right?
What was the...
Just that first single release.
Okay.
How did that come together?
Like did you have to find a team of people?
I mean, you know, that's...
Yeah, that's interesting that you ask.
I didn't have a team at the time because it was my very first release.
The single was based from a friendship, out of a friendship that I had with the arranger
slash producer of the piece.
It was an old composition actually that had already been recorded.
So for me, it was an opportunity to just jump on it.
It had never been released and to finish the production myself, to record my vocals and
release it that way.
And that's how I started learning about all these different aspects to being an artist.
Because it's self-funded, like you said, it's also self-promotion, right?
Because you can release a song and you record it, but it doesn't mean anything if you don't
have a good marketing team.
So everything... and what makes things more complicated too is that the industry is also
radically changing, right?
And I'm sure Ricky can speak to that as well.
I'm reading a book right now, All You Need to Know with the Music Business by Donald
Passman.
And I find it funny that every other paragraph he says, oh, don't rely on this, take it with
a grain of salt because by the time you read it, it might be out of date.
It's like, okay, can I rely on anything?
If I could touch on that, I've read two versions of that book.
Donald Passman is a genius because he writes a very important book in an industry that
changes every two years.
And so he can write a new version of the book and you have no choice but to buy the new
version.
Right.
Genius, right?
Because there's actually... it's funny.
I remember when I had the original version, I ended up giving the original version to
one of the bands that I managed early on in my career because it was just kind of like
a parting gift.
And when I joined this firm, I was like, I've got to get that book again, thinking it would
be the same book.
And it was night and day different.
I mean, he truly does put a lot of work to make sure things are up to date, but he does
qualify the entire time being like, this is probably going to change by the time you read
this.
So I think he started giving website links at least to try to keep things up to date.
But yeah, that man is a genius because if I could write a book in an industry that changes
every couple of years, then I'll be set for life.
Yeah, you don't have to take on any more clients.
Yeah, exactly.
That is... yeah.
I mean, that's, you know, again, these things we don't even really think about as much,
you know, as musicians.
Yeah, because you're focusing on working on becoming a better musician, right?
It's one thing to do the art and it's another thing to do all the business stuff.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And they especially...
I don't want to say especially, but being a classical musician and in training is so
specific, you know what I mean?
So focused and it takes such a long time.
So there's no... actually no time for anything else to do.
Yeah.
Anyway, so you spoke about so rapidly changing this music industry.
So I'm just curious, what sort of effect did the pandemic had to musicians?
Obviously, a lot of us lost jobs and music is all about, you know, people gathering and
enjoy the live music.
So right now we're coming out of pandemic.
What's the change do you see as an attorney?
Yeah, I mean, there's so many ways to answer that question.
So obviously the pandemic itself was difficult on so many people, but especially the entertainment
industry and there was no area of the entertainment industry that wasn't affected.
I mean, the live performing space was decimated.
Artists who...
A lot of artists structure their deals such that they make a good chunk of their money
off of touring and couldn't do any sorts of tours.
And also it's funny, the number of artists who, because of touring being so important,
were so used to just touring every year around the same time, sometimes most months of the
year and now they're stuck home and they're like, what do I do with myself?
And so I think there's a couple of ways to answer that.
One just from a practical standpoint, what we saw as attorneys early on the pandemic
and throughout the pandemic was because people were stuck at home, there was a lot more songwriting
and production going on.
So in pre-pandemic and probably we'll see this again post-pandemic is when you are on
tour and you're just busy doing tour dates, touring performances, doing just any sort
of talk shows or whatever.
I mean, you try your best to write songs when you're on the bus, when you're on the plane,
but it's difficult.
It's tough.
It's a grind.
That life is very hard.
And same deal, you try to produce those tracks in the one to two weeks you're home, but query
whether that's enough time to really get a product that you are proud of and really kind
of can feel that this is what you wanted.
When you have nine months to sit at home and nothing else to do but write and produce and
master the tracks, you start to get products that I think, and you have to build repertoire
products that you can now say, okay, this is where I want it to be.
Now, make no mistake, that was not easy either.
A lot of songwriters are collaborators.
They want to work with other people.
And so songwriting over Zoom was a hard thing for a lot of people because they're used to
being in a room together and building that bond and that relationship, building a song
off of that.
You can't do that during the pandemic.
You couldn't have done it in the beginning.
Now what I think, I'm going to be optimistic, Ricky, for a second.
I believe that because of that, I think we're going to see sort of a golden age of music
for a little while.
I think people have now built their repertoire of songs and masters in a way that they could
not do for a long time because of touring, because of other obligations, but I think
we're going to see that music come to light in the next five years.
And I think it's going to be amazing.
I think it's going to be excellent.
That's the silver lining.
I remember during the pandemic, I was hanging out with a friend of mine who's a tour manager
for a big country artist.
And we were just talking about how tough it was and what was going on and what things
were going to look like.
And I remember, I think he was going to say, he's like, I don't know, I just feel like
if we can come out of this, it's going to be amazing.
I think we're going to see a rejuvenation of the industry in a way that would not have
happened had the pandemic not happened because everyone was just go, go, go on the same schedule
that we couldn't have time for this creation, this pure creation.
So I think that's going to be a really cool thing that's going to happen.
In terms of the industry generally, I think a couple of things have also changed.
Streaming, which has always kind of grown in the last decade, 10 years ago was, man,
you can't make money off of streaming.
It's so difficult.
We'll never get there.
I think that that was steadily becoming more and more and more and more great.
I think the pandemic sped that up a little bit because people were at home, couldn't
go to live shows, but you still need that music.
You still need that emotional component to get to today.
And so people would stream.
They would stream music more and more and more and more.
And people were finding creative ways to add music to their video streams, which is another
source of income for songwriters.
And so I think that we have now ripped the band-aid off a little more on making that
a more productive source of revenue for musicians and songwriters.
And again, I think that was always going to happen.
I've been a big believer in streaming for a long time, but I do think it helped people
who wouldn't have assimilated to that world get more on board.
So that's really good.
In terms of the deal side, I also think there was a bit of a kumbaya moment in the industry.
I don't know, I'm not sure in the query how long this will stay, but I do think there was
a moment of like, we are in this together.
If we're going to get through this, we have to do it together.
And so I think a lot of the deals, there was a shift in the pendulum of more artist-friendly
deals of labels and publishers being like, okay, we all need to try to focus on making
sure we are all healthy and going to get this through.
And as attorneys, we were seeing some more favorable deal terms that I think sometimes
we wouldn't have got pre-pandemic.
A lot of these companies, towing companies, record labels, publishing companies lost a
lot of money during the pandemic.
So query whether that pendulum will shift back the other way as they start to recoup
or trying to get some of those profits.
But at least for the time being, I think there is a moment of like, how can we make everyone
successful as we come out of this pandemic?
And as someone who has clients on both sides of that aisle, I love to see it, right?
I want everyone to be successful.
I want the money to be spread around so that people can both make money off their trade,
but also help make artistic money and get compensated for that.
And so we'll see, we'll see where that goes.
But it's a very, very interesting time to be in this industry.
I mean, it's always an interesting time to be in this industry because like Angle, like
you mentioned, it's always changing.
It's never static.
Even if we wanted it to be static, it never could.
But I think it's very interesting because of everything going on and also because of
new technologies, right?
I mean, TikTok became huge over the pandemic and artists are finding ways to make that
another big source of income and are becoming influencers in a way that they might not have
considered prior to the pandemic and finding ways to become brand marketers in ways they
wouldn't have considered before the pandemic.
We have a client that is in that space that helps connect artists with influencers to
help create their brand and build their brand.
That client is called Soundfluencer.
So look out for them, but they-
Soundfluencer.
That's interesting.
Soundfluencer.
And they have a couple of different companies, but they're doing, in my opinion, they're
doing God's work in terms of helping communities that normally probably wouldn't connect, right?
Before the pandemic, if an influencer wanted a song, they're just going to look on TikTok
at what songs TikTok has license for and just promote that because it's a good song.
Now you've got companies that are bringing musicians and influencers together to say,
hey, how can we both make some money off of this and grow our brand together?
Which again, you love to see it.
This is amazing.
Really.
It's almost like I'm touched by this conversation to see actually both sides, especially seeing
you, how passionate you are to not only helping the industry, but the artists really.
I do feel even with this Taylor Swift movement, right?
People starting to appreciate or honor or respect the artists, I think probably more
than Euro, more than past at least.
I was always thinking, historically speaking, right?
My main hero is Bach, right?
He worked every single day of his life and his wife still died in poverty, right?
That's just like sort of a normal thing.
Mozart, which everybody felt he was poor when he was, but he just was not very good at collecting
payment or right away and those things happen.
But I think Beethoven had already started learning.
I mean, up to this day, Clara Schumann, she had to publish under her husband's name.
But I feel like modern days, we are still in a way a little clueless.
Classical music, again, we are classical musicians, so that's the world we are in our whole life.
We are learning.
We are learning to not only come out of this classical world, but our children, our students,
right?
They grew up studying classical music, but at some point they are curious of other things
and we want them to be curious of other things.
And so Ricky, what's your advice for younger, like really, really, really young musicians,
let's say the teenagers or, you know, what's the future of this entertainment that you
see being in the future?
I think that the younger, younger generation has a benefit that past generations have not
had in the sense that they are used to things changing very quickly, right?
With the advent of technology, social media, cell phones, everything like that, right?
They're used to having a brand new technology every year, every other year.
And so I would say for them is like, lean into that new technology and learn as much
as you can while you have the time.
And now that's not to say, because I think I can at least partially remember being in
middle school and high school and you don't have a lot of time, right?
You're getting shepherded around, you have to go to lessons and classes and sports and
I get that.
But to the extent you can, I think that the younger generation has a better grasp and
a better adoption rate of those new technologies.
And so to the extent you can pay attention to those new technologies and how can they
potentially affect your career, do that and learn as much as possible.
A good example of that is kind of the blockchain NFT space, right?
I mean, that space is going to, I believe it'll take a long time, but it's going to
revolutionize the way the industry especially does royalty payments.
I saw the article.
Yeah.
Well, when you have a distributed ledger that's public and decentralized that when you have
enough people kind of bought into that concept, instead of, you know, it's funny you had mentioned
that Mozart was just bad at collecting.
Well, I think a lot of musicians have that problem, right?
They have that problem of like, yeah, I signed this deal, but unless I have a business manager
that's like pounding on doors, who's collecting my sync licenses?
Who's collecting my, you know, performance stuff?
You know, you need a good tour manager to make sure they're collecting those payments.
Well, if we can put all of that in a technology that does it automatically, then you don't
need to worry about getting paid.
You know, you play a show, the venue records that in an app and automatically the payment
hits your bank account.
You have a copyright, you record that on the blockchain.
You know, some of that copyright gets input into a Spotify song, that song gets played,
you get paid automatically.
I mean, there are ways that that can happen.
And I think that that, I think unfortunately that's probably a long way away because of
how many people in the industry have to buy into that concept and different parties, right?
You need publishers, you need recording labels, you need tech companies, you need Congress.
I mean, everyone needs to, I mean, we saw how long the Music Modernization Act took,
right?
I mean, that was a 10 plus year process of trying to get even minimal change in the copyright
law.
So make no mistake, what I'm describing isn't a tomorrow concept, but it's a concept that's
going to affect younger artists.
And to the extent they can be bought in to that concept early on, the better and quicker
they can adopt it.
And I think the more successful they will be both from a artist standpoint, but also
from a making money off your art standpoint.
So that would be my advice is just lean into, lean into technologies in the way you can,
the more you can keep up to date with what's happening in those technologies, the better
off I think you'll be.
So for those young students listening, after they're practicing your skills, you can start
to think about this early.
I mean, New York children, you know, they are, I mean, I'm on the upper side.
Sometimes I, you talk to them, I feel like they're older than me, you know, they are
so mature in their mindset.
And it's partially because of YouTube, because of TikTok, you know, they hear these things,
but they're a little lost.
I sometimes feel, you know, and which we felt that way ourselves, I'm sure, you know, when
we're younger, like, why do I practice like for all these hours?
Right.
And then, but I think they have a little better guidance in a way because of the technology.
And as you're saying, maybe you should look at that app.
That would be amazing if artists could get paid as soon as the work is done.
I think it'll happen.
And like I said, it's tough and it's difficult, but just to the extent that you can, you know,
you have some free time instead of just scrolling TikTok, you know, scroll some blogs on NFTs
or the music industry, you know, get on billboard and just kind of make sure you're keeping
up to date.
Because the more you can do that, the more prepared you will be as things shift.
You know, you don't want to get left behind.
You want to be an early adopter in those products.
And to be fair, oftentimes they are right.
I mean, you know, self-distribution through concepts like CD Baby, right?
Like that's a relatively new topic.
But overwhelmingly, the people that I see that are using that are younger artists, are
artists who are used to...
Hey, my teacher, I see him record his CD from CD Baby.
He is only 20-80, you know, so...
Well, and exactly.
That's not to say that it's just younger artists, but just in my experience, it's typically
younger artists because they're used to using the internet to get what they want.
Right.
And I think older artists are a little more wary of the new technology and would rather
do it the more traditional way for better or for worse.
Not to say that there aren't more experienced artists that see the benefit and are doing
it because they definitely are.
But I think that that is a good example of like, I think regardless, younger artists
are going to use those technologies.
So just don't get left in the dust kind of thing.
That's true.
Oh my gosh.
What an amazing conversation we had this morning.
Thank you so much.
Oh, yeah.
Very inspiring.
Thank you.
Oh, thank you for having me on.
Yeah, thank you.
So are we ready?
Are we ready for the rapid fire?
We're going to wake up.
I don't know what to do.
Have you called me yet?
Oh my goodness.
So...
Oh, we have one, so we'll see.
Make sure the answer, each answer has to be the shortest answer possible.
And I'm so glad you guys both are on.
So fight for an answer, just shout it.
So I'm going to say a question and Yuki Mi will say another question.
So we're just going to pop, pop, pop.
Are we ready?
It's on, Ricky.
All right.
So let's go.
Ricky, what's your comfort food?
Chinese food, like, well, American Chinese food.
Of course.
I studied abroad in Singapore and I know there's a huge difference.
Actually, you know what?
I'm going to clarify that one more.
Dim sum.
Great.
What about you, Aguiliki?
French fries.
All right.
So my question, cats or dogs?
Dogs.
Wow.
That's a...
You guys are...
You sing with each other.
What is your word or words to live by?
It's a great day to be alive.
Ooh.
Nice one.
No matter how hard the day is, it's better than the alternative.
It's getting big.
I love that.
Wow.
Nice one.
Okay.
What is the most important quality you look for in people?
Modesty.
Trustworthiness.
Yeah.
Honestly, trustworthiness.
Have you rehearsed?
I know.
No, we have not.
What is the worst quality in people you want to stay away from?
Greediness.
Yeah.
I think greediness are just like dishonesty.
I mean, the exact opposite I think is just if you think someone is giving you one thing
to your face and something to someone else's face, it's just so hard to build trust in
a relationship.
We're so lucky to have you guys as lawyers in this world.
Okay.
Next one.
Name three people who inspire you, living or dead.
Ella Fitzgerald.
And then...
Go ahead.
Ella and then...
Oprah.
One more.
And Nana Muscari.
She's a great part of it.
Okay.
Beautiful.
Ricky.
Yeah.
I will keep mine a little more personal, except for one.
So one, I read Jay-Z's biography and it was actually quite fascinating.
I think that he doesn't get enough credit for how much he's done for music as a whole
and how far he's come.
So I think he's pretty inspiring.
But for me, it's my grandparents, both on my mom's side and dad's side, they immigrated
from Puerto Rico and Cuba respectively.
And just hearing those stories and kind of what they had to fight to give me the life
I had is just amazing.
And then probably my wife.
I mean, I think that we've been together since 2009.
I've seen and grown a lot.
And I wouldn't be anywhere where I am right now if it wasn't for her guidance and honestly
like just pushing me.
That's beautiful.
All right.
So which historic figure do you wish to learn or take lessons from if he or she were alive?
Historical figure.
I will just, I'm sure there's a billion that I could say.
I will say I recently read George Washington's biography and quickly realized that I think
he's a much more complex figure than people entirely realize.
I think it would just be fascinating to sit in a room with him and just pick his brain
and a couple of things.
I think that would be interesting.
What about you, Gaby?
I don't know.
I'm blanking.
Do I just have to pick one?
You can pick as many as you want, but we're not.
Give us one.
I don't know.
Let's keep going.
I'm blanking.
We'll come back to you.
Yes.
Okay.
So next, which historical figure do you wish to hang out with at the bar if she or she
were alive?
And Grickey, do you have to answer?
Who do you want to party with?
I don't know.
What figure at the bar?
At the bar.
This is such serious.
Now I see the lawyer faces coming.
Yeah, right.
Now we're getting the gears turning.
I guess I don't think about historical figures as much as I thought I would.
Yeah.
It's more like a classical musician kind of question.
That's right.
I was just going to say.
Yeah.
I was going to say.
The only thing I can think of is the historical figure.
I don't know.
I was going to say.
The only thing about people.
I would love to chill with Rachmaninoff.
I mean, is he a historical figure?
Alright.
Yeah.
You can't, you know.
Sounds good.
Probably sit on his hand speaking off as a student.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I guess it depends on how far back you go.
I mean, I would love to hang out with Elvis Presley.
Hang out with him.
Bar I'm sure he's got some stories.
Oh yeah.
I feel like he would just be a character.
He would totally be.
Yeah.
Name one piece in your current playlist.
I'm sure that's easy.
Oh my God.
Switched by Corey Henry.
Okay.
Oh, I see.
We have to.
We're going to keep all of this in our Spotify favorite list.
Yes.
Go ahead.
Ricky.
For me, it's, I mean, it's the entire Machine Gun Kelly album recently.
I don't know why it struck a chord.
I think it's because it came out during the pandemic and it reminded me of like simpler
times.
I enjoyed punk rock and it was a very much punk rock heavy album.
And it was, it was the first album in a long time that like, because I usually have to
listen to albums a couple of times before I'm like, oh yes, I really do love this album.
I always give an album at least two, if not three listens.
But that album, it was like from the first chord.
I was just like, and I was having a bad day.
It was like deep in the pandemic and like things were looking pretty bleak.
And I was like picking up the kitchen and like I just happened to press play and was
just like, oh, and it just hit something for me.
So that was one that I really, really enjoyed.
It's on my playlist that I like to always tell people about.
Okay.
Great.
So name one book title, name a book title you're currently reading.
All you need to know about the music business.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, that's a good one.
I just picked up the occasionally I like to read some science fiction.
I just picked up the Dune series after watching the movie.
Oh yeah.
How was the movie?
It was very, very well done.
So much so that I immediately purchased the Kindle book because I was like, if the movie
was that good, the book has to be phenomenal.
And so far it's been great.
Oh, wonderful.
All right.
Gosh, we have to check it out and our audience will check it out later.
You got only one song or piece to listen to for the rest of your life.
What is it?
Sugar.
We're going down swinging by fall out boy.
Oh no.
Wait.
Oh, or I know it's a tough question.
Um, what's the other one?
What's the what's the big killer song?
Mr.
Brightside.
I think Mr.
Brightside by the killers is the it's one of those two.
I think anytime that comes on, people who know me know that I will typically
drop whatever I'm doing and go into a frenzy for better or for worse.
Right.
Check it out.
Yeah, I know.
I give a key word.
I would say Sir Duke by Stevie Wonder.
I can listen to him all day.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
I saw your place.
All day and all night.
Excellent.
Okay.
So last question.
This is fill in the blank.
Law is blank.
Complicated.
I see myself as a.
As a, as a somewhat of like a Sherpa.
Kind of guiding people.
Like, you know,
Yeah.
Like it's the key word.
I think it's a good one.
I love that.
What about your Ricky?
Is it, you said just one word answers?
Um,
Can be.
A few words.
Yeah.
I mean, I'd say.
Like law is.
Kind of.
Deciphering the complicated to help people get to their goals.
You know,
I see myself as a, as a, as somewhat of like a Sherpa.
I think it's a good one.
Yeah.
Like it's the crazy.
It's not.
It's complicated.
But it's not anything anyone couldn't understand.
It just requires the right teacher.
Interpreter.
Yeah.
Interpreter. Right.
And I think that as our goal.
At least my goal is to help interpret it to a way that the client
feels comfortable.
Um, I never.
My goal is not to be an attorney.
That's just like, here's the contract.
Just take this and sign it.
Yeah.
And then you can sign it to the client.
I think if they find.
Oh, go ahead.
Oh, no. Yeah.
I was going to say it's also important to avoid whenever you're talking
to a client, you know, talking.
Legal jargon. Cause we, we have our own language.
It's always good to try to.
Simplify it and explain it.
Like Donald Passman does in his book, right? About the music industry.
Same thing.
Talk in layman terms.
Yeah.
It's the.
Interpretation.
Right.
It's everything.
Well, anyway, thank you so much guys for joining us this morning.
Really, really early.
And that concludes.
Episode of the piano pot.
Thank you.
Attorney Hernandez and attorney.
Thank you so much.
You guys.
Thank you for doing this.
Your insights and expertise.
And thank you.
Our audience for tuning in.
You can find more information on Mr.
Hernandez.
At the shackle.
That a shuffle for that low profile.
Ricardo Hernandez.
We will link to his website.
If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review on whatever podcasting
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We will see you for the next episode of the piano pot.
Bye everyone.
And thank you, Ricky.
And thank you.
Thank you.