Welcome back to the PianoPod. I'm Clara Zhang. I'm Yukimi Song. For anyone listening or
watching our show for the very first time, welcome! Yukimi and I are both classical pianists
and piano teachers from New York City. This podcast is for anyone who plays the piano
for fun, loves listening to piano music, or for someone who is currently pursuing a career
in piano or works in the industry professionally. In each episode, we interview a guest speaker
who has been breaking exciting new ground in the music industry. Before getting started,
we want to thank our amazing fans and listeners for tuning in. Please rate our show and review
it on Apple Podcasts because every rating review will help people find our show.
So Yukimi, I'm very excited about interviewing our guest of season 3, episode 3.
Actually, episode 2, sorry.
Episode 2! That's right! Mr. Adrogos Halim, who is a stand-by artist and artist faculty
member at NYU. And of course, he is the last student of the legendary Mr. Redmayer Horowitz.
Oh my god. I know you have bothered to interview Mr. Halim on our show for quite some time
because you know him personally.
Absolutely. I actually took lessons with Mr. Halim for two years. I mean, you know, toward
the end it was on and off, but I had a privilege to learn lessons, take lessons from him.
And you know, I stopped taking lessons probably a year or two before pandemic. So it's been
a while. So I can't wait to catch up with him after so many years. But he's such a dear,
dear teacher and dear friend and wonderful person.
Oh my goodness, I cannot wait. And so amazing he goes to study this. Well, first of all,
you know, my story, I basically opened up Rational Music on Abu Dhabi because as a child,
one day I read in the back of a cover of a CD that I had of Mr. Horowitz and said his
home, last home was on Abu Dhabi, New York City. And you know, I just always had these
little dreams. And so I was like, I'm going to move there one day. You know, it happened.
And also Mr. Harleen, I actually met him once very briefly, maybe for two, three minutes.
And when I actually, you know, auditioned at NYU and I came to study with Mr. Berkskii
and he was so warm and kind, but he came out so tall and handsome and stylish. So I was
like, am I in the fashion department? So yeah, he's such a great pianist. He sent me the
CD or the recording recently and I was just a minute in, I was just sold. It was just
such a beautiful song. And you know, of course, the Horowitz biography that's called Horowitz
Life and Music by Harald Schoenberg and one chapter of the book is called Last Tuple and
it's about Mr. Horowitz. I know. I knew the fact that Edwardus was the last student of
Mr. Horowitz even before I started taking lessons, of course. But when I found out that
this, there was a chapter of his, you know, Mr. Horowitz biography dedicated to Edwardus
and document their encounters and lessons, I was so overwhelmed actually.
It was scary. I can't wait to hear all his personal stories about Mr. Horowitz and his
own experiences as a young piano student back then. Yeah, me too. I'm so excited to be able
to reconnect with Edwardus after so many years. So yeah, let's get the show started. Yeah,
of course. Let's go.
You're listening to the piano part where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry
about how they're bringing the piano into the 21st century.
We're so honored to introduce Mr. Edwardus Hallin, Steinway artist, a member of the artist
faculty at NYU and the inaugural holder of the Sasha Gornitsky Chair in Piano Studies.
Mr. Hallin is hailed as a pianist for his superb technique, exquisite tone and distinctive
artistry. He has performed with major orchestras worldwide, including the Baltimore Symphony,
Chicago Symphony, Cleveland Orchestra and the Russian National Orchestra. In addition,
he has given solo recitals at venues such as Alice Talley Hall, the Kennedy Center and
Whitmore Hall in London. Mr. Hallin is also known and recognized as the last student of
the legend, Vladimir Horowitz, which is documented in the chapter called Last Pupil in Harold
C. Schoenberg's book, Horowitz, his life and music. After his second CD release in the
year 2000, music critic Mr. Steven Wigler wrote, quote, anyone who misses Vladimir Horowitz
would be wise to investigate his old Chopin recital by Edwardus Hallin, the last of the
master students. Mr. Hallin is a born Chopinist. Rather than call him his master's disciple,
it would be better to call him Mr. Horowitz's successor, end quote. So welcome, Edwardus,
to the piano floor. Thank you so much. Welcome. Thank you so much, Mr. Hallin.
Absolutely. So happy to be here with you both.
Oh my goodness. We have so much to cover, but I just wanted to say how appreciative
of you for being here. And I was telling Clara that, you know, I've always wanted to interview
you for our show. And then finally in season three, I am ready to interview you, Mr. Hallin.
So I'm so happy. I'm very honored. Thank you very much.
And then, so a couple of years ago, I was sort of, you know, restarting my piano journey
again, you know, and practicing, but I felt like I need more guidance and lessons. So
someone suggested you need to email Edwardus Hallin. I was like, no way. He's like, you
don't master, but this person said, you know, just try, just email. So I emailed you. I
mean, that's sort of the start. And I didn't hear from you. So I was like, yeah, you know,
I'm just going to look for someone else to study. And then a month later you emailed
me back. I was like, I couldn't believe it. I was on cloud nine. I could not believe myself.
So, and I was able to book you for the first lesson. And I still remember that lesson.
I brought Chopin Nocturne in C minor. Yeah. It's so difficult. But I, yeah, I was so nervous.
But I think a week, I continued lessons with you for about two years, a little over two
years on and off toward the end. But what a great experience I had. And thank you so
much for opening my eyes to this beautiful romanticism. Oh, no, not at all. You're being
very kind. And also the feeling is mutual, Yukimi. And I enjoyed it very much, you know,
teaching some time and it propels one to think about for a student and also for oneself.
So for very selfish reasons, teaching is very good for anyone to learn about oneself. And
that experience with you also was a wonderful one for me.
Thank you. That's awfully kind of you to say. But yeah, so I really want to know you more
in a personal level because I know you as a teacher and you're always sitting right
next to me and teaching me all the music. But today is all about you, your life, your
career. And, you know, most importantly, you know, you are known as the last student of
Mr. Horowitz, the legend, the genius. So we want to really go deeper into that episode,
that story. So yeah, after two, three decades from then. So but let's just start from your
early years. I know you're from Indonesia. So let's start from there. So your life and
what was how the music was introduced to you and so forth.
Yes, you know, I grew up in a big household. And actually, it's large meaning it's not
an exaggeration because I grew up in a city called Bandung, named Bandung. It's about
100 miles south of Jakarta. And as a city of quite sizable, a million and a half to
million people at the time, I think. And I have my family. We live in a Dutch house,
a Tudor house. And it's quite, you know, we were occupied by the Dutch for 300 years.
And so we had Indonesia got the independence since 1945. And I was born in 1961 in Bandung.
And so my my parents, you know, what my father is from Shaman originally, like all the Chinese
diaspora who are from Shaman. Yeah, from Shaman. Yeah. And, and, and my mom's family from Singapore.
Yeah, so they, they met there. But I'm a family of six, meaning I have five siblings. So it's
a large family. So we have a lot of the same on a cacophony of noise every day, because
we also have, you know, I remember being growing up in the back of the house, quite large,
because it's a factory, textile factory in the back. So I could hear sometimes, you know,
I would be practicing and then I could hear the textile machine, you know, constantly.
And then the people who work there and the helper and they all believe in the same, you
know, general compounds. So it's always surrounded by people. And so my, my, my, my, I had a,
my parents had a small upright piano, I still remember it was a Blutener.
Oh, Blutener. I play on Blutener too sometimes. Yes, yes, yes. So and, and, and so to which
my mom who loved theater, theater, and my father who loved, you know, fine art, fine
art, you know, paintings and whatnot. And then they suggested we should all take piano
lessons. And piano lessons is very common. It's part of general education. So I was the
one who was brought up, brought up, brought to a wonderful piano teacher, Suh Sao Chu
King, I still remember. And then she said, Oh, you know, this boy is talented, you know,
and then she should, and to which my mom said, my mom said, you know, well, he's talented,
I have five more to go. Which, which you do it actually, you know, we have literally
six of us, I'm the fourth in the family. So six of us studied piano. And so, and it was
constant. It is part, you know, looking back, you know, we all, sometimes we laugh about
it how, how, how crazy the whole process was. And then how, how sometimes looking back at
mom, you know, mom who, who live in the, you know, who live in the city now. And then I'm
forever thankful thinking back, because she was the one who really was very down for to
me to do subsequently took me to violin lessons, to Javanese lesson, Javanese dance, to take
briefly a ballet dance and a dance and a ballroom dance. So it's a, things that we did, we,
when we, I was a child, sometimes I found it to my great annoyance. And looking back
now I can say, well, thank God we did that. So it was a kind of unstructured education,
I must say, in addition to just a normal school. And so subsequently, because of that, I progress
quite fast. And then went on to Alphonse Beccalel, you know, who is my teacher's teacher at that
time, was very well known in the city. And so I went to study with him. So it was a very
also unusual because I was 10 years old at that time. And then he said, you know, first
thing he said, oh, you're facile. I have a facile facility, you know, not necessarily
with any particular discipline to speak of, but not what I am student now, you know, but
I said, okay, better on third concertos to study. So it's a very strange.
That's the first piece?
The first piece, study with him. But prior to that, I have done a lot of, you know, the
Clementi, the Kulaws, and then we go by period, you know, the Mozart, after Mozart, the Haydn
Mozart, we just ran through it. It's like not in particular profound way of looking
or very detailed way of looking. So it's a very interesting kind of, but in hindsight,
looking back at it, there was a good thing in many ways too, that I learned the repertory
sort of in a very methodical way in that sense, you know, period to period through Bach,
et cetera, et cetera, going by the period. And so then when I went there to Beethoven,
I really didn't find it. I didn't quite understand it. Why? But I played, you know, but it was
not the best looking back, certainly not the most undisciplined way, but the fact that
it was taught so early on, it's still means and it was just extraordinary. So my growing
up, it was a little bit that way. And also then subsequently that, you know, you need
to do recital and then the recital. So it was the solo recital that I still had to program
somewhere.
That's so exciting.
Yeah. It's like a crazy program. And looking back, I said, I would not even do that to
a, I would not have done that to my students, you know, or even to, but bad, bad looking
back is interesting. I started with, I believe it was a, a, a, a, a, a, a minus English suite.
And then after that, we have the Bahia to go to Montserrat. So we do the, the Turkish
march, you know, the A major, the Saladin A major, and then after that we need to get
the better. We did the D major. And then after that we go to the Chopin. I saw, I did Chopin
Saladin Rue 2. And then we go to Liszt and Liszt D minor.
Oh my goodness.
I mean, which is crazy.
And you're only 10 years old.
I was 12 years old. And then when I was third, but then after that, when I played the recital,
so the program is completely obscene. I mean, but, but, but, but, but I didn't understand.
Because, you know, there's no, no gauge, no, no, no standardized. And then, and bandung
mainci, there's no music school. We all take it privately. So it's a completely on your
own. And then there's no conservatory to speak of. There's nothing after school. And I just
do whatever I feel like. And then, you know, but still looking back, looking back and then
I can, the memory of the Liszt sonatas is pretty much in, in my, under my finger. I
felt like, you know, and, and the Chopin sonata is different. That's awkward, more, really
one it's not so easy to draw, but Liszt sonata for some reason felt comfortable. Well, comfortable
is not the right word for the Liszt sonata.
Meaning, meaning to, to, to, so, so it was a very interesting thing. But so I looking,
I must say that was remarkable. Yes. The, the, and I can say with great conviction to
say it can have, it could have been very harmful and gone, you know, and it could have been
also many things can go wrong. But on the other hand, looking how one shape a voice,
I think it matters a lot and how your environment and how one works. And, you know, the, the
mind, it was not regimented at that time. So sometimes I'm not, I'm not looking, I wish
I have much more regimented system. So perhaps where, where I, to this day, sometimes I feel
like I, there's a kind of deficiency I have to always overcome with greater effort. But
had I been 12 year old train in, in, in some great institutions, you know, and, and, and
some really known and perhaps there would be, I would have an easier time, felt a greater
confidence perhaps, but it's musical development that it's something else in the child that
because it's like a child, you know, you let them out and do whatever they want and they
found it. So I was pretty much growing in that musical in that sense. And then after
he, he, he passed away, then I didn't meet another teacher and did not have four years
and when I was 17 years old,
but with that sort of like a free environment, I think you can say, oh, I wish, oh, I wish
I had this, I wish I had a little bit more strict, much stricter, but I think that really
inspire you, inspired you to be really artistic and you know, the, even that influence still
is there in your playing. So you think, yeah, I think, I, I think, I mean, you know, I had
the benefit of living long enough to look back and say, well, that's, you know, it is
something is, it's something I looking back because of now the experience of teaching
a lot, you know, meeting a lot of musicians and then, and I'm thankful for that. Not,
not even once I, and I, I, I thank my mom and my father for that. The fact that they,
they just, they didn't know any better. So, and they, they didn't know any better except
that they know that the son is talented, but the four years of not having teacher also
was quite...
Yeah, that age, right. And I read in the book, your first teacher was a Hungarian trained,
right?
Yeah. But you know, he didn't, he never really quite went to the piano and to show anything
except only to play some pass cell facility. And I still remember that he has a nine foot
IBA.
Oh wow.
Yeah. Yeah. And I, I was, he was perhaps the only, the only a Western, Westerner in my
city that I know. It was, you can imagine how unusual it was. So, so, but, but then
when I was 17 years old, I met a really superb and dedicated teacher with Stephen Suleman
who really said, you know, listen, you know, my dear, you, you have your way venturing
to the wrong, to the devil, you know, I need to put you a straight back. So, and there
were the beginning of working carefully and to understand how each physical element matter
and introducing what it is the sound should be in relation to sound. So...
Well, earlier you said something about like list if he was comfortable. So I was thinking
because my very first piano teacher actually was also, when he taught me, he just came
back from Hungary to China and I had switched over from like, from three to nine, I was
playing keyboard and they were like training us to be DJs basically, you know, it's like
standing up, you know, and then all of a sudden I met him and he was like, okay, you're going
to play some, you know, a Beethoven, you're going to play some like, I didn't remember.
I was like, this is wild. He was like, it's okay. You can just try it out and just try
it out and see how you feel. And that gave me the courage to actually, you know, two
years later apply for a conservatory. And I grew up, you know, in a long, long generation
and we're the same age. So I wonder if that has something, you know, that almost fearfulness,
like fearlessness, you know, with that.
Yes, yes, yes. And then, you know, I think that when, the great thing about being a child
is that you really don't understand, you know, everything is done by intuition a lot of time.
So which is very important. I think that intuition is very, very valuable, but, you know, we
fear sit-ins when you're getting older and older and you start understanding more stuff.
Definitely. Yeah. But I think it's still unpacking, you know.
Yeah.
Wow. So right now, so speaking of fear, I mean, coming to the United States and studying,
yeah, Julia, I don't know how you felt maybe, you know, if at first I am, I was an international
student too. I had so many, you know, ambitions, but also fear too. So how was it like coming
to the United States and studying with amazing, greatest Sasha Gomitsky and then later on,
Rudolf Fierakoshny and so, yeah.
Yeah. It is, you know, when I mentioned how important my sort of like unorthodox way of
growing in Indonesia is, but I must say the most important format is really, really form.
There was the four years I was at Juilliard and then subsequently four years later with
Fierakoshny at Juilliard as well. And it was Sasha is the one who really, Mr. Garoniski,
you know, who was really, really very crucial to start developing my tone. And so when we
speak of technique, you know, and even when my work with Mr. Horowitz was, we only aim
for one most important element is the voice. It's not even, that element is covered almost
universal. I think it's that everything else is just, it's only to serve that voice, that
sound that is identifiable with the individual musician. And that was Mr. Garoniski's start
putting the foundation for me. It was the kind of teaching, certainly, and my lack of
understanding from Indonesia's and you know what to expect, but I was at the great institutions,
you know, I accepted there and it was very, you don't know what you fear because you don't
know what it is. So I really didn't have that much fear, but I also realized early on, I
said, everyone seems to be practicing except me. So I thought I'm going to just nap. And
I said, my first semester, I was like, you know, practice a little bit. Oh, it's like,
you know, life is so beautiful. Just going downtown all the time and then exploring the
city was in 1980. I thought that I was, I would just completely, I never seen anything.
It was like, you know, New York is one of the greatest city. And I didn't realize, I
thought initially, I thought it was what a mess the city was. It's completely, I was
on my own, but thankfully, I also did. I must say to also that I met, I met very soon after
I arrived at the New York meeting was I met Judy, you know, my wife who was also studying
with Herbert Stesson's at Juilliard. So that's how we met. And that was important. And I
made it was a built in support also with unknowing, of course, you know, it was very important,
I think, but studying with Sasha, it's extraordinary that I came at the time that Sasha just had
a major health issues. He had, I believe it was a quadruple bypass. And so when he came
back on the limited basis, so I was working and he has assistantship and consists of all
who is who, the musician, the great musician, I mean, you know, with Andre Lapland, the
Canadian pianist who I heard in 1977 in Australia, that propelled me actually to come to apply
for Juilliard because I heard he's playing in the Sydney piano competition. And he played
absolutely, I thought that he should have won, but he did well. And I heard also Diana
Katzow, another former Gornoski alumni. And so I studied, the assistant is Andre Lapland
and Yaninia Piafkowska, also very, very absolutely fantastic pianist, Canadian pianist who is
a big prodigy of Arthur Rubinstein. And, you know, we have also Joseph Biela, who I didn't
have the luxury to meet, but he passed away sooner after that. And also a great talent,
American talent, and it was from Sasha. And I think there's a few more. And the one that
I worked with, who I loved dearly was James Barbagallo. And James Barbagallo is perhaps
what Mr. Gornoski was teaching me. Barbagallo was able to train me. And he was really in
many ways looking back, it was the beginning of how to read music properly and how to read
the score properly. It was, you know, and as I was mentioning early on, I mean, it was
pretty much, you know, the Stefan Zuhlmann putting me a lot of the physical apparatus
and connection to sound. But it was Barbagallo is the one who reintroduced me to much greater
respect towards the score. And to which I think that even to this day, I still treat
the score as if like I look at this as a piece of artwork, you know, constantly changing.
So if I found I can find something interesting and new, that means I do well that session.
If I found it just as familiar, then it may not be so good quality.
So that's how, but Gornoski was also, by the way, you know, I have some, I must show you.
Is that a picture of Mr. Gornoski? No, no, I have, I have, I have, oh, this is, I have
a picture here. This is, this is Harold Schoenberg. Oh, the person who wrote Mr. Horowitz's biography.
Of course, you know, he was, he's very much, it's equally instrumental in my life, because
I met him in 1984. We will get to it later on, because he was also the author of Great Pianist.
Oh, right. Yes, yes. The great conductor. And I have, you know, I was fortunate enough
to have to know him until his death, you know, for the period of 20 somewhat years. So, you
know, we literally, not to diverge, you know, the story was, Mr. Schoenberg also was also
an author of many interests, including how not to bogey.
Oh my gosh, that's so funny.
It was fascinating because, you know, it's the mind, a great mind.
A true artist.
And there's such, actually, Wanda and Vladimir Horowitz knew how much Schoenberg meant to
me. And he would occasionally, you know, hand him on the coffee table where we will be taking,
and he would say, you know, look at this article, you know, there was a pretty much an article
that is facing music, you know, and where, where, say, you know, Schoenberg was talking
about what's today's young people know, meaning young pianists. And he said, Wanda would say,
he's right, you know, he's right. And so I sort of get a hint there was a kind of rapport,
in cultural rapport between Schoenberg and Horowitz. And I felt that very strongly.
But anyway, so getting back to Mr. Horowitz, or to Mr. Goronitsky was, he was Levine, studied
with Joseph Levine. And really, pretty much, I must say, you know, Joseph Levine being,
when we talk about the apex of pianism, you know, the so-called the golden age era of
pianism, I would say Levine would rank up there.
I see.
Yeah, you know, and yet, his output is small. Meaning his recording output is very small,
unfortunate, you know, and I mean, he was he dedicated much more to teaching. And Goronitsky
was very much byproduct of that great school, pianism of school. It's mainly the sound,
the deep singing tone. And then it was the kind of understanding where Rosina Levine
and Joseph Levine wrote that principle of piano playing is a small book, you know, which
is, I think it was a seminal book for pianists, because here we thought about how the usage
of flatish to create sound and how legato is the most important and it's singing. So
I remember the entire work of four years with Sasha was always say, he would constantly
emphasize until you can tell it is the act of singing, constantly singing, singing, no,
not singing enough, it was no, no, no, no. And even I felt like my hand has already drilling
into the key. That's not enough. He said, you need to play all the way to the floor.
This is how the power of creating and but, you know, and all in here, all of them say,
share very common thing in order to do this, you need the strongest technique and then
the strongest independent of the finger and strength of it. So it's the usage of the weight,
you know, the flexibility of the torso and etc. So it's really all encompassing, you
know, and maybe talking about speaking of the piano technique. That's how and I learned
and the habit of learning of also there is no such a thing and learning fast with Sasha.
And I work on the Ramayana III, it says like one year, Schumann, David Brunner times one
year. There's no such thing you work for one month and move on to that. In retrospect,
I would say this maybe at least it works for me on my and I felt like I can finally internalize
it back there. Right. We just after all this is the important work. So did you go to a
lot of concerts back then? I'm sure you did. Yes. Yes. I mean, when I was in Kansas, I
actually I you know, I want to tell you how I actually met you. You probably don't remember
I mean, such a long time ago I was in Kansas. I mean, I came here on tour and then I met
a teacher in Manhattan school and she was like, I speak Chinese and I was like, I don't
speak a word of English. So she was like, well, you know, let's go to Kansas, I'll give
you a scholarship. So once I'm there, you know, a couple years in and I have this other
other teacher, James Dreyvers, Mr. James Dreyvers, he was very well known in Kansas, but he studied
at Juilliard. So he kept talking about all these concerts that he goes to, you know,
when he was in New York and I'm like, you know, I actually promised to a tree when I
was 30 that I was going to move to New York, but I can't tell anybody because I mean, kids
it's hard when we go to New York. So he was like, why don't you just email Mr. Bernstein
and let's see if you can take a lesson. And I came and then Mr. Bernstein was like, okay,
go talk to Mr. Harleen. And I remember seeing you and then I was like, am I in the fashion
department or you know, you're piano because you're so well dressed. I know you're like
a fashion designer or something.
I was. Too vain.
No, no, no. You're a true artist. And you are so kind. So tell us a bit.
Thank you. I appreciate it. By the way, you know, I adore Mr. Bernstein, Seymour, I think
he's really one of the, when we were in school, I always find that his saying is always the
most, a lot of wisdom and wit. And really, I really was when we speak, you know, and
I enjoy very much.
Unfortunately, yeah, I actually didn't get to come to New York eventually. My Chinese
teacher forbid me from moving to New York when I was 21, so I only moved here later.
But so I really am curious of like the concert theme, you know, so like, did you go to a
lot of concerts?
I've been here many. I heard many. I heard Laza Berman. I heard Yuri Agorov. A lot of
at the time, it was a lot of Russian, Russian so-called, you know, when the Soviets still
quite close, you know, I came in 1980. So it's, and also we also have this impression,
you know, anything the Soviet pianists must be really good, you know. And after all, I
studied with a Russian teacher and also this kind of feel, you know, and I heard Askenazi
were fantastic pianists also. Askenazi was just, and I heard Maurizio Polini. I grew
up listening to Polini in Indonesia. You know, in Indonesia, we listen to Decikramaphon or
Tekka or Phillips and they must be good. And I go to a lot of the Carnegie Hall recitals,
you know, and it was such a beautiful hall. So I was introduced to a concert. I heard
Martha Argrich, very exciting. You know, a lot of pianists and of course at the time,
you know, Zuby Mehta was coming as a conductor as well prior to that was Bernstein. And it
was quite an incredible life, you know, to constantly be exposed to it in the music scene.
And Alistair Levy also have concerts all the time, you know, a lot of artists would come.
So it was an incredible learning experience for me because to see how these people and
then to realize that, you know, just as we were talking about the fear or lack of fear
when we were young, but these people to do it all the time there in front of that many people,
there was another kind of level of accomplishment.
Sure. So that's what it is about coming to New York and study because you get to see all these
giants in front of your eyes. But to me, you are also one of the giants.
Yeah. But we, so we want to know your performance career,
like any memorable concert you've given or maybe concerto, just give us like one story.
You know, I remember many things certainly, you know, and, and, and, you know, as an artist,
you know, we played really well, sometimes not so well.
Oh, shucks, you know, but what happened, but, but nevertheless, it was always,
we learned to always bounce back from it and then always look forward, you know, and then not dwelling
too much as long as work, work, work, work all the time and trying to make sure. And so, so, you know,
I, I, I enjoy performing for instance, the concerto I performed quite a bit also with the,
the Rachmaninoff third I did quite often. And it was, I always found it gratifying to play them,
but although it's pretty sadistic in a sense, you know, the effort had to be put in there, but, but
it is, it is, Rachmaninoff is a very glamorous and yet felt, you know, it's a serious music and,
unlike some quarter who perceived Rachmaninoff as being a little bit too lightweight, but I don't,
I don't agree at all, you know, but, but, but however, and also I, I ventured into, into Chopin,
Chopin is certainly was, was my, my favorite to, to, to, to perform up on the, the second
concerto is so beautiful. I remember that playing that with, with, with, with the Cliffland and,
and it was really such a great orchestra. Certainly you can, you can find, I mean,
really that many fine orchestra, but Cliffland is, it's, it's to me still, I remember being,
being, it was just absolute phenomenal. It's a virtuoso orchestra with great sound.
It was, I think in many ways one can, you know, it's a great conductor they had, that they had
there. And I also work, I love very much working with, with a fellow musician from Indonesia
originally, it's Yaki Aling and also, you know, Ling Wanchi is such a fine musician. And it was
truly a great musician. I thought that, you know, conducting beautifully, but I think it's, it's the
feeling with the rapport. I felt it was just extraordinary when you have that and you're
considered and David Zinman, I think who also I look back with great fondness because it is very
beautiful. It just is a great musician, I thought, you know, and, and so, and then, and the sound of
the, of the Chicago Symphony, for example, it really is something to be like next to you through
here. And then, but so, so Chopin's second concerto is one of my favorite also, I must say. And, and,
and another one that I really remember being with this talking about the, with orchestra was,
was I remember being the, with the MPO, with the Malaysian Philharmonic many some years back.
And the first time I performed the notches from the Paya, I must tell you that is extraordinary
experience, at least the sonic experience for two, you know, we, the piano is almost,
mostly almost like we could even call it not quite a concerto. It's not, you know, but it's,
you know, part of the orchestration, but, but, but the sensation of hearing that when the theme is
coming, when everyone digging into their instrument and we are being, I think the greatest
warmth and then I realized how, how, how great an orchestrator Manuel de Falla is not only just
great composers, Spanish composers, you know, and, and so, so, and also performing goyescas,
I must say, is considered the most gratifying experience. And it's almost like you're,
you're explaining, you're not explaining, you're, you're, you're going through a journey on epic
stories. And similarly with the Schumann to which I love the most, you know, and then I, I, Schumann
to me, it's very, very dear. And in fact, in fact, in many ways, I must say it was Schumann that,
that gave me a lot of good start. It's very strange. And it was, it was, it was Mr. Schumberg
met me in 1984 in Sydney. And he said, it was, yeah, man, the Davies-Bündel-Tanzer. And that was
the beginning of our, our, our, our, you know, and he wrote subsequently in the New York Times
magazine, you know, re-reporting that the event and how the Davies-Bündel-Tanzer was, was,
was perceived very well by, by, you know, and so to which, to me, Davies-Bündel-Tanzer is, is, is
one of the greatest Schumann work as well. Of course, but many, many of the Schumann, you know,
for instance, I love the humorous greatly and I worked so deeply with Mr. Horowitz and to play
the humorous also, oh, it's like you are manic in that, in that sense, you know, the, the, the, the,
the kind and I, I must, I must say I'm currently learning the, the, the, the, the novelette.
Oh, really?
Yeah. After all, you know, that was the first, the first meeting I, I met with Mr. Horowitz
and Mr. Horowitz went to the piano and played the novelette for me.
Oh my gosh.
That aural sound, I feel the, the, the, the, the, the color, the, the magic and it remains. And I
was, I was completely, completely overwhelmed. And that, that, that I-
You have the recording of Goyaster's too, right?
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That and then Olshopan and of course the Olshopan CD became one of the monumental,
let's say in your career that really leads to much bigger thing later on that we are going to
discuss. But yeah, do you want to maybe talk about either one of those recordings of yours?
Yeah, I was certainly with, you know, it was, it was a project that it comes later to, to, to, you
know, after, after studying with Mr. Horowitz, I remember that soon after actually, you know, and,
and when, when I was with Mr. Horowitz, you know, we were working quite a bit on Chopin
and the Sonata being one of them. And, and, and I always play Chopin for him, you know, and
Mazurkas was, was, he played Mazurkas all the time to me. We talked about the Mazurkas and it was,
it was interesting because I think in here, as we, as we, we, if I trace back, you know,
the beginning of my, my love, I mean, I always loved Chopin, but beginning to understand Chopin
was when I heard Friedman play, recording of Friedman.
Ignace Friedman.
Ignace Friedman. And it was, it was interesting, you know, it was, it was Mr. Shormaku who said,
listen to this, you know, and he invited me to, to, to come to, to view because he's, he's,
he has a really quite an incredible collection of recordings, you know, and he's certainly
an authority, an authority in terms of what, what a pianist world is like after, you know,
and so the knowledge, and he was telling me, Edward, you know, let's listen to this one.
I heard Friedman first and I heard also the, the, the Opus 55 number two, and I heard his
song without words from Mendelssohn's. I must tell you that's, I never heard that tone,
that sound, that singing sound is almost like he's speaking to you directly and, and that kind of
communicating and, and maybe the closest I heard subsequently after I knew this, there was a period
also, I heard also Tchaikovsky, Shura Tchaikovsky in life and we're talking about Carnegie Hall.
There was prior to the changing of Carnegie Hall, meaning the prior to the renovation, the famous
sort of debacle of renovation, I heard Shura Tchaikovsky and played, and Shura played Mazuga
there and, and, and also played the Chopin Nocturne, Opus 62, number two. I still remember that
to them and including the, because that sound, that beautiful color, that creamy sound, I never
heard it before that, never. Now, now, so you can imagine the, the, the, the, so, but then I have to
sort of, the timeline is a little bit off a little bit, but I must also explain to you, sort of
explain what happened. So this is not, it is quite true how Mr. Horowitz is being perceived.
When, when somebody is at that, that level, there's a lot of detractor and a lot of,
you know, suspicion, a lot of, it's probably, at least, France suffered from it greatly too,
I think, I mean, it is so well documented, but, but in terms of Horowitz, when Horowitz came
to play at the Met and a colleague of mine at the school was like, are you going to Mr. Horowitz
concerts? And I really didn't know who he was. And because, as I said, and I was introduced only to
Polynesian, Irish, and, you know, this is great names. Mr. Horowitz was, I completely not known
in Indonesia. We didn't hear, I know Arthur Rubinstein, for instance. And so, so, but I went
that same afternoon, there was, I heard, you know, very dear and very respected figure, you know,
I respect very much, was hearing, I heard the conversations, went on something like this.
Are you going to the concert? And to which the person said, oh no, I'm not going there. Oh yes,
of course, you know, it's a master of exaggeration. And so there was the, so to ask this person who
are you talking about? And he says, Vladimir Horowitz. And it is not that I was really such a
good, it was not a good song. I don't have to worry about it. Until the next day I heard
friends reported to me, said, you know, you never heard, it's the sound, it's the huge
math auditorium. They said the sound that, then I friend, dear friend of mine, I still remember
Munik Chu, he became one of the big professors at Seoul National and one of the greatest friends
of mine, very dear friend. I mean, he put the recording of funeral on the recordings and then
through the phone. And I said, who is this one? I was completely shaken by that. That's your devil,
demonic kind of playing. That was the beginning of a Horowitz book.
But that sonority that I was thinking, my God, it's possible. It's Mr. Horowitz playing.
It's like opium. It has that effect on you because it's so just beyond spectacular. It's the kind of
temperament that is so far and the range of the emotion he created. So it was really something.
And I didn't, of course I missed it. So then there was the period where Horowitz made the last romantic
the movie and it was played in Carnegie Hall. So the next best thing I can do is Judy and I
went to Carnegie to sit there to watch a film and the film's done by Albert Maisels, the movie maker,
who is my landlord. I told you that my life is strange. I moved in November, month of November
to December for one month to have a room rented with Albert Maisels in the Dakota apartment.
And then the day after I moved the day after John Lennon was shot.
Mind you, it was very strange. But it was wonderful. And above his apartment,
the Bernstein, Lennie Bernstein on the second floor and I get to see your phone.
It was quite, not knowing, okay, but not knowing that he was a documentary maker
about the Rolling Stone, but not knowing he will be the one who made that last romantic movie.
And so I went to hear and then it was just very moving even through the films and then to which
Judy, I remember this, we have conversation on the way back. We were so overwhelmed with how sound,
a projection of free, speaking poetically and such. And then he said, I wish you could
study with him. And to which I just laughed. After all, when I was in Indonesia, my oldest brother,
he's nuts. He would write to RCA, he said, I have a younger brother who's very talented.
He'd like to study with Maestro Rubinstein. And RCA prompted him right back to my brother,
my brother said, oh, perhaps your brother can consider Curtis Institute of Juilliard.
No lack of ambition.
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Now let's continue with the episode.
So we have to speak about Mr. Horowitz now, right? So I've been, we've been hearing his name a lot
now. So we both read the chapter of Mr. Horowitz biography, Horowitz, his life and music by, you
know, Mr. Schoenberg. And then one of the chapter is about you, the last few, you know, of course,
I knew of you before I took lessons with you. I knew of you before I came to New York, but I never
knew that one of the chapters was about you, dedicated to you. And I was so overwhelmed when
I, when I bought the book, I was like, Oh my goodness, am I, am I going to take piano lessons
from this guy? I couldn't believe it. So yeah, the chapter, the whole story, the 10 pages of it was
a beginning is so exciting, but it's, I never knew it was just so complicated in the end. And so,
so I want to know, we want to know what was it like the first lesson, because to me, first lesson
was with you was nerve wracking. And I kept the journal, you see, this is the journal with you.
And I even wrote a specific exercise to do and everything every day, I took a journal for two
years. And then, so I know you kept the journal while taking lessons from him. So I wonder if you
still keep, you have it. I still have it, it's a small journal and I kept it. And then, you know,
even, even when Mr. Horowitz called me and whatnot, I would say, and he would subject, you know,
sometimes, you know, my tummy don't feel so well. It's something that mundane, you know, but, but,
but, but tell me, so tell, tell, tell that, yeah, the first, first lesson, first lesson,
how did you come up about to do? Yes. So it's all actually, it seems to be like, looking back,
I can say it seems to be like a natural, a natural process in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in why,
why sometimes I always wonder why it happens to me, why, why it happens to other people in different
ways too, you know, but that's how it, things fall into places. And so it started, but prior to this,
I'd like to also speak, not quite briefly, but, but about Rudolf Verkushen, you know, that was
after Goranzi died for years. I went on to the great Verkushen and I must tell you, that's
a, this experience of Verkushen also, it's maybe perhaps one of the most worldly musician I know,
and, and one of the most Christian musician I know. And, and here where, where it's interesting,
you know, when, when one become, you are surrounded by, by, by studying, studying is not
just merely studying canon, studying is studying to be the person you like to emulate, the person
that you influence you, the thinking, the kind of the kindness, you know, the warmth of the person,
you know, or for that matter, if you meet a person who you found that the, the, the rather not the
quality you'd like to be. So that's also a learning process, but Verkushen was all in all was the most
elegant person I know. And then, and then even to this day, to, to, to his last day, I still remember,
I mean, meaning last day, the last day of me working, I would say I would thank him previously
to, to, for, for the time he spent, he would say, no, it was, it's Sasha Duan who made you. And,
and, and that kind of, you know, generosity. And in fact, you know, I brought up Verkushen because
to study with him was, was, was to study to, to see how a great musician with great experience,
because he was a favorite of many conductors, Gisele, George Sales included. And he was,
he was perhaps less known in a sense than not the Horowitz fame, but, but among musicians,
he was legendary because it's also as, as, as the kind of, he leaves, he leaves the, the,
the, what, what, what's so called the ideal musician, but he knew the composer, the champion
in great composers. You know, he was, he was, he, since he was a child, he was, he was taken care by
Leos Janacek took him on as he was, as a boy of eight, nine years old. I mean, it was remarkable.
I mean, I was, I was in NYU doing the last year I was, I was doing a sort of not a lecture or not
lecture. So it's, you know, collegium speaking of the, the, the, the Czech school and where I was
talking about Janacek, the divorce shark, Martinus and, and here is all the, they're so close to
Frikushin. So he's a very important figure in here. He's the one who introduced Martinus very much,
but the stories is unbelievable. And Frikushin was, was one of the great gracious men and with
so much stories to tell, because he was also very dear, was very dear to Mr. Horowitz. And in fact,
Mr. Horowitz said to me, he said, you know, when he decided to take me on, he said, please ask
Rudy for permission. He's my dear friend, you know, and to which I asked you different question,
to which, which is very important to, and I said, I can see why he said it. He said,
Eduardo's it's a perfect time for you. Had it been early on, I would say no. And then I think,
of course, you know, one can attest that from the Baskin book, you know, Grant Baskin, which is not
the, not the most, I must say there is a lot of feeling discomfort when I read that book,
you know, but that's some, some truth to the fact that, you know, sometimes it's difficult to,
when, when somebody's that overpowering personality to study with that, and when you're young.
And, and so, so I was already reaching my 27, I believe, at that time. So, Krikushni said by,
by complete blessing from him, by all means. Then stories are the stories that Krikushni would
tell me, how Mr. Horowitz used to cancel concerts, you know, whatever, you know,
you know, what do you have with this book here, with, with comments that you know, Rudy, Rudy, please come to my place, you know,
and then we said come, you know, Giancarlo, you know, Monotti, and then, you know, Sam,
you know, Sam Barber are here with me. Sorry, all the name dropping, we can't take it.
It's incredible. And to be such a Rudy, we'll take Kevin, we will be there, and then he's 94th,
and since Horowitz, so Mr. Horowitz said, you know, this afternoon, I supposed to play with the Baltimore Symphony.
So let's find a burlesque dancer somewhere in the, they say, you know, in Chinatown.
Mr. Horowitz is a fun guy. I mean, he would be like a complete party guy, who knew where,
who knew where the best, the best thing he knew. So of course, she had a, you said that he would get a
gun, a taxi, you know, we will go downtown looking for dope, you know, looking for dope, but you know,
we're shut down by the police. So there is no lacking of ideas, let's go up to Times Square, you know,
I know a burlesque dancer with a python. Oh my gosh.
And so he was, he saw that the announcer on the door is like, this establishment was
shut by animal cruelty. The python was stapled in the mouth.
Oh wow. I heard, I heard great many stories and pictures of him telling me, I, I, I think we will such a,
I miss him very much. But anyway, so, so, so getting back to Mr. Horowitz was, was he was,
he was in 1984 after Mr. Schoenberg heard me played and, and, and in Sydney piano competition.
So it's also talking about career also, career choice, you know, it's a, it's an interesting, but,
but I did there and I think I was awarded the fourth prize, you know, and, and, and, but the
subsequent from that was, was, it was a big change in, in, in how trajectory of my career. Actually
there I met also a lady, a very elegant person, lady, Jenny Vogel, who was helping out with the
competition. And she was finally late, we'd make a brief introduction and then she was paying a lot
of attention to, to, to the competition. And subsequently she was always in touch or at least
she sent her people at, at, at, who become eventually become my manager. And, and, and it was,
it was important because ICM, she was one of the big person at ICM and ICM was really one of the
best. It's to what we know as Opus 3 is still, I think to me was, was really they, they're the one
come direct from Soul Hero, you know, agency that, that actually nurtured artists. And, and, and,
and I was very lucky to, to, to, to be with them for, for, you know, for a good, a good amount of
time. And he was, she was the one who helped greatly. And of course, a number of, of, of the
people there, but that's from the Sydney company. I didn't win first prize. I won fourth prize. And
then, and then Schomburg subsequently also wrote in the, the New York Times stories. That's also
important because it would, it put me on people most start recognizing a little bit more. And
so then after that also Schomburg apparently wrote a lot later to Mr. Horowitz,
because they made an, they made trying to say, you know, if you find any interesting young person,
and then vice versa, we let each other know. And then the many, many people go through many
pianists come to Mr. Horowitz, to hear Mr. Horowitz live, just to, to, to whatnot. And so,
so that's how it started. Then, then Mr. Horowitz, Mr. Dubal, who I took the, the, the, the class at
the piano lit, and Dubal was very mesmerizing person and a very, very charismatic person. And,
and, and, and the class knowledge, and he was bringing a lot of people to Mr. Horowitz from,
from Juilliard. So maybe I was one of the last batch of people that he brought. And so that's
how, how finally Mr. Horowitz was aware from, that was in 1984. And the reason why in 1984,
because, because Mr. Horowitz was already, Mr. Schomburg was working for the memoir, for Horowitz
memoir, was working. So it was already in place. And, and, and subsequently, of course, you know,
Mr. Dubal wrote his own, the evening with Horowitz during the, after,
soon after Mr. Horowitz passed away, if I'm not mistaken, yeah, and the timeline. But,
but it was, it's been long in the making. And, and, and so Mr. Horowitz, also the period of Mr.
Horowitz is very important. Remember that Mr. Horowitz said it's important that, you know, it's,
it's the timeless, right? And, and Mr. Horowitz is also legendary for, for his temperament,
you know, and, and, and could be a little bit more unpredictable, perhaps to say mildly,
and also is mercurial. You know, it can be difficult, but the first lesson I had, Mr. Horowitz,
I was about to play addressing your mention and the first word he said,
I'm telling Don't worry. I understand everything you will, you will do and what you want to do.
That was the first thing he said, playing, playing. He was, he was the most, of course,
I was nervous for so many days. I want to make sure that, you know, you have to,
to have to dress up properly. It's a tradition. You wear a suit, you wear your shoes properly,
and you have wear tie properly and whatnot, because it's, it's, it's an old tradition.
We meet, I mean, I mean, with Mr. Schoenberg the same, for Christian always dressed up elegantly.
I almost said, you know, this is for Christian like Errol Flint coming to Julia.
It's like always the best of all elegant and go around is always, today's we are different.
Of course, the world has moved on. So, yeah, it can be more casual, but at that time. So
the anticipation is remarkable. And I met at seven 15 on the dot. And then we spoke a little bit.
And then Mr. Horowitz, make sure that I'm comfortable and whatnot. And so then I played
and so, you know, not easy. And of course, but you know, as I said to you sometime,
not knowing how famous he was, even after I know how famous he was, the implication,
what fame Mr. Horowitz had, I didn't understand at the time too. I said to him, oh, he's a famous guy.
You know, I just was thinking, the only thing I think if he doesn't like me, I'm already prepared.
I'm already psychologist thinking, hey, life move on. It's okay. It's okay. So I played, I played,
I played, I remember I played some 80s, I played Schumann and it was, I think it was,
I understand soon after he was, he wants to gauge what it is like, the emotional bearing of
my playing. It's not so much of, I think we all assume that one can at that level,
everyone can play piano very well. But I think it was much more the kind of passion and feeling
that is there after. So I think which is, which, you know, I, to me as well, I felt that's the most
important element anyway, right? I mean, and I'm sure to all of us, if you look at that, you know,
what a musician is, what an artist is and let it be in literature, in painting and fine arts and
and it sounds, it's how it touches you. And that's, I think that's the most important.
Once that established, I remember I was, I was giddy like, oh my God, it was like, yeah,
it's a great composition. And of course, you know, I laugh a lot too, because it's probably
because I'm a little bit, I'm a big laugher, but also, yes, it's probably also because I'm also
quite neurotic in that sense.
All the training from child will come through.
But it's so enjoyable. I have a free moment of it. The sound of the piano, I felt that I can feel
like that piano can do, produce anything I want. And also I was very much inspired with, with
his great presence. It was, it was the most generous presence I have, you know, and I could
feel it was when we speak, it was speak, nothing, nothing imposing. Everything was very kind and
welcome. It was, and even when so far afterwards, we went almost like 12 o'clock. And I remember
it was midnight.
The session, the session lessons always run from 7 15, maybe until 12 o'clock,
usually until 11, 12 o'clock until, yeah, it's, it's, as I said, mentioned early on, it's a study,
not just, yeah, the studies of person. It's, it's, it's, and, and here I remember, but I must
not neglect to say all this was made possible because Juliana Lopes, you know, and Horowitz,
a right-hand person, this wonderful, wonderful women who exude so much warmth. And in fact,
I have, I have the picture here next to it, to this one, Juliana Lopes.
Yes, Juliana and I, he said, and he, she was the one, you know, a lot of stories being said about
Mr. Horowitz period, where it was a difficult period. I mean, there, there are quite a few
different periods of Mr. Horowitz where he has mental breakdowns. And it really is just, so
looking back, it's not easy to be an artist of that caliber. It's just, it's a process. It's
nothing, it's, everything is manic, you know, you can say mood swings, I can imagine. So, so, but,
but it was the period when Mr. Schomburg told me this too. And then when he went to Japan
and, and, and it was when he was completely taking so much pill for issues of, you know, Mr. Horowitz
would say, I have a little bit of colitis, anything, a little bit, something is problem. And he could,
and then doctor easily prescribe him new medicine. So until he was becoming completely this, this,
he cannot function properly. And Mr. Horowitz, Mr. Schomburg told me at first, I had that interview
coming back. I thought he was like a zombie. I thought that, you know, this is finished.
That is Mr. Horowitz finished. And Mr. Horowitz acknowledged this, which is, which is, this is not,
not only just the piano, but, but he said, you know, you know, Juliana is like my wife.
And everyone was mentioning how important Wanda is, absolutely, no, no doubt Wanda Toscanini,
but it was, it was Juliana, the one who was very dear to him. He was the one who, she was the one
who, she was the one who tell him maestro today, you will do this. You will do this. And then I
will prepare you for this clothing, everything arranged, everything to make sure Horowitz life
is just nothing but happy as much as working as well. So Juliana did was,
Ms. Juliana took every, asked the doctors to make sure prescribe everything in pill, in capsule form.
There was so then all the, you know, you can imagine all the, the psychotic drugs that it
was being prescribed. And so he replaced them little by little with vitamins and then break
and put it in capsule and get Mr. Horowitz not knowing and, and, and win off the drugs. And Mr.
Horowitz told me she's the one who saved my life. And, and, and, and then when I knew him,
she only drink water, a gallon of deer park water next to me.
Wow. So that kind of, Juliana was the one who welcomed me with open arms and I bet
this is the first time that he signed to course and how, and it was just, it was just, it was
to these days. I remember her so very fondly. Yeah. But just to tell me, how was the first lesson?
Like you went from, you know, even before you met, you know, Mr. Horowitz, so that impact of that
individual, that genius is the ripple effect is so much, right? So then I didn't realize until I
read the chapter of the biography that it became such a complicated thing toward the end.
And it's nothing to do with you or not. No one is just the way.
It's the nature of the horror. It says, you know, I mean, and, and, and Mr. Horowitz himself,
I felt like it never Maestro himself never deviate from what music is, what a musician is.
There's this deep down is nothing but musician. But people say, you know, oh, he's maybe he's not
sometime he got even saying it's like, oh, maybe he's like, like a child. I mean, like he's not
the capacity of thinking. I totally back differ. This is totally far from it. He was in many ways,
in many levels, he's the genius. But, but having said that, also, I, I, Mr. Horowitz fame,
and the legendary reputation was also created an aura of really almost like you're going there,
you're going to see an emperor, or householder palace or some sort is run by. So it's a coterie
of very important people to him, you know, who always been there, you know, Tom Frost,
madam, and at a time of a period where Marie Farahia was also listening in.
And so the question was, Mr. Horowitz, through Tom Frost called me and to say,
Maestro wish to spend one year of his life. It was the word. Mr. Tom Frost told me I was still on
living on 75th Street. And I was I was on my loft apartment. I remember, and then my asterisk,
so it was my asterisk to devote one year of his life to teach. And I thought I was really
overwhelmed. But anyway, that was the premise. So it gets to the point where the studying was very,
very, very serious. We really we had a great time. And then one day at all time, also one that was
going in at all time was always present majority of the time, it's partly because I feel like Judy,
I will bring Judy, my wife, and Wanda will be there too. And it feels like it was like a lot of
naturalizations that is not doesn't have to be explained. But we enjoyed the company very much.
And in fact, Wanda was was was absolutely great in many aspects of commenting of, you know,
we banter quite a bit and whatnot. And then it was very in good mood. Let's put a lot of
this complication derived to the fact that as time move on and you know, that was
I was already with YCA, the great organization, the Young Castle Artists, and it was Susan
Wadsworth founded by Susan Wadsworth, certainly one of the most iconic person in music, you know,
and really, and then many, many musician goes through that. And then prior to mine, although,
although Jenny Vogel already was was was with already with me, they said, you know, well,
you'd like to do the YCS, and we recommend that, you know, it's a good organization. So I joined.
So YCS suggested I should do Van Clavin. And the Van Clavin competition, I said I did it in 1984,
prior to the city. And I did very poorly, partly because I was so overwhelmed, partly because I
was not be perhaps not even feel completely ready. But I felt like everything was was every note was
being scrutinized every minute. It was just not natural feeling like not the way but but it's
looking back, it's just I'm not just I was not tough enough. It's not it's not for everyone. And
then, but so when I went to Sydney, three months later, I was thinking Sydney so far away, and
there's not much that kind of exposure, I was I was I was somewhat able to, to perform much better,
feel much more myself. And so that that competition is this really is an important
element in the artist's life, in development of a career is important, because it's a necessary
evil, if we put it evil, but also it can work really well. In my case, it works really well,
not in the in the traditional sense, but in the sense that it propels me to know many people.
And many the networking is done through because Schomburg was able to mention and then and then
YCA is a great organization, but that's not really quite a competition. That was the period where
one does suggest I should do the, you know, and I didn't want to do it. But it was at the urge of
Marie-Brahia who kept saying that, you know, oh, you know, Eduardo should do that, you know, should do
the composition. And so there was a kind of tension in the horror. He hated it. He hated the idea. But
so I didn't know this one. And it was Juliana later on who told me towards the end, it was so
much fighting going on, because I always doesn't believe in competition. And he thinks that
Eduardo's and also not only that, I think, you know, my playing is not a it's been a knowledge,
you know, when I played, I created a controversy. Sometimes, you know, out of unpreparedness is
that I understand. But sometimes even when I'm prepared, sometimes people don't don't
necessarily understand. Jury can be a set of jury can be a different set of jury. So it's a you know,
that's just the nature of competition. But accepted as such. And but the tension. So it gets to the
point where Mr. Horowitz was asking me to such, you know, why can't you just take my suggestion,
you go with Harold Shaw, you know, with the also the very reputable his manager, you know,
how could you give your concerts? And then I saw I told my my astro I'm already under commitment to
ICM after I finished. And then you know, to a typical horror, what do you mean IBM IBM? Who
is this IBM? I said, I said, I said, you know, I mentioned to me to do ICM, you know, I know,
because you play with Isaac Stern, which as I mentioned, Isaac Stern's name being, oh, boy,
he was not happy. He thought that to do it, he turned around and said, how do you think I'm not
powerful? There was a very, this is very, I was quite shocked when I heard that I just said to
which I did mention, you know, I really don't know, you know, I always believe that, you know,
Kerry will be a career, whatever it is, you know, and then one destiny is one destiny, whatever it
is, as long as you keep working, it is the most important. So to which I said, maestro, but that's
not the agreement we had the agreement that I will study with you. I didn't feel I taking advantage,
I could not even I didn't could not even mention I studied with him for many, for many months. He was
the one who told everyone, including Mr. Schaumburg in the party, you know, you know, I met this boy,
I met this boy, I met this boy. And it's so he was I'm completely under different. But you know,
I didn't find it problematic to me. But the Cliven was problematic to me, because I was already,
you know, why is he giving me dates? And and and and but but so when I went to Cliven, I
people don't listen to me as as as if they didn't thinking is a Horowitz clone period, there's
nothing. But then I must tell you this also, you know, they all forgot, there seems to people say,
Oh, yes, Mr. Horowitz, Horowitz, Horowitz, that they forgot. If I'm a Horowitz clone,
Mr. Horowitz will be the one who will not listen to me. He would not even be spending a minute.
See, I'm just completely people sometimes take it, you know, they don't be outside,
they don't understand. And then what is that? You know, it's it's my own feel. And I felt like
I'm liberated the minute I hear Friedman, I can do what I want. You know, this is what natural
inclination I have. And I want to develop them. This is this kind of. So sometimes we get pigeon
hole very much. And in fact, when subsequently subsequently in my career, you know, and in the
beginning of the career was like, Oh, Mr. Horowitz, you know, no, later on, no, they said, no,
Halim has his own way. But that's the way the nature is when you work with such a whole
overwhelming musician. But that's a small price to pay. It's not even a price at all.
It I'm I consider that a complete privilege. And so when this tension comes, I think there was
the breakdown. It felt like, Oh, but then also it happens to be Horowitz was so happy doing
the last recording. That was the period. Also, he would start playing all the time, playing for me,
all the repertoire, you know, we go through and I would. In fact, you know, he's the one who put
me the recording for the first recording I made for the transcription. It was because Mr. Horowitz
you know, it was like a look at the Tchaikovsky lullaby, you know, the Libeslei and the Wagner
Tristan, which is, you know, he did. Oh, it was just perfect. You know, he would always talk about
about it. And and our love for for for Carlos Schreiber, the conductor. Oh, my goodness.
So just we we had a stack of at the time, just, you know, and then on that make sure. And we always
talk about how great he was telling me wanted to take me to hear Othello and with the Kluiver.
And, you know, he passed away. But it was like soon after. But I last time I met, it was during
my birthday in August. Yeah, 1989. And I still remember he came down. He put an envelope to take
Judy to dinner. He was he said, this is my social security. I thought it was you cannot. And it was
I must tell you, it was so so in all in all. But, you know, later on when the book came out, I met
Madame again, Madame and he was in her nineties. You know, we went I still remember we and Judy
took her out. We walked and then Juliana, we went to Sarabes on medicine.
And we were explaining a lot of things that you know, what's how it goes on. And then Madame was
in the hospital when the book came out. And then and Juliana told me Madame knows that. So,
you know, it's it's in the end, we learn not to it's not important. Yeah. But it was it was
the urging of Parahia that makes it a lot of tension that feel like as if like, if I don't do
outside for my own as like I want to take advantage of the relationship with the other
and there was there was I felt it was a little bit painful for me. There was a very painful chapter
to to to be such with it was never felt that way. But it was it was the the surrounding because I
heard this one, Juliana Lady on Tom. And then in fact, you know, I went to when the horror was
passed away, you know, and we all know, of course, we went we went to Frank Campbell, I mean, Judy.
And I saw the casket is I don't I don't mention it too much. And it is on record. I mean, you know,
I saw an open casket and it was there. I see the bow tied and then the handkerchief I get from Maestro
and and and it was from I remember it's from Funberg and as you know, I got the charvet
originally, but Maestro said, No, I don't want the charvet. How do you know? I don't want the
I don't want the charvet. How do I tie it myself? So I get I get him the the the the red one and I
get the blue one triangle pattern. I still have mine. And then it was it was Juliana. I was I was
so so taken and Juliana I was I was completely speechless and both of us I almost you know,
you you you you weep, you know, when you see the great person like that. I mean,
because even if you and then do we any do we any mention to me that was the last one of the last
thing to know my I didn't know that when you get older, you prepare everything. So what what
clothing you like to wear. And I know he has like 500 600 both I in his room. And he said,
Juliana said, Maestro wants this one. And so I you know, I felt. Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's
it's an experience, a beautiful experience. You can't you can't know why the reason the only the
the only thing I can tell the reason I was lucky to be surrounded by people who really believe in
me. And also, I was lucky felt like we speak on musical level, meaning the exchange of music
without it. It's nothing to speak of with, you know, the day they will, you know, there's a way
of working through music. So and yeah, but but so the subsequent lesson, of course, been tremendous.
It was the understanding of learning how to use pedaling, listening to polyphonic,
to the structure of the piece. And to these days, to this day, I still do it, I still
searching for it searching by doing that, I assume one gets gets better, you know, and it's
it's it's I remember this one, my source said, it's a tragedy if you stop learning.
And I never stop learning. He was so proud of saying, I never stopped learning. He was
in the first concerto. And there was a kind of this this giddiness. And I think that's a blessing
also, because, you know, a lot of time, you know, physically, when you are getting older,
you know, but so getting back when I knew Mr. Horowitz, it was the Horowitz already mild,
mild version of Horowitz, the mature version, meaning not mature. I meant that a much more,
much more kinders setting. It was no more that that mercurial temperament, but temperament,
nevertheless, is there. I just know no question. So the kind of so I was I was I was I came at the
right time. Thank you for sharing this amazing because this is something that we cannot get it
from the book, the biography, especially, you know, because that biography, especially was
written 20 plus years ago. And this story is even before that. So I hope that you are able to,
you know, sort of close this finally close this. I mean, you have already probably but, you know,
just to be made this story public. Yeah, yeah, it's like a nice closure for me to and then,
you know, and then I feel I feel like there was a kind of unexplained but but then it was explained
many years ago to me already. But I felt that it was to, you know, I didn't feel like when it's not
the time, I feel like it's time is good to to to to give a sort of like the next bit clearer,
clearer explanation and where things things are. And really looking back, it's it's the
the you know, a musician, I guess, I guess, one strive all the time to really wanting to find
your voice all the time. I'm feeling like I'm more more more confident in what what is the voice I
have. But it's all nurtured by, you know, this great man in my life, you know, and and and
Shambrak in many ways, too, is very influential to me in a sense in the in the kind of introduction
to many things of his knowledge of recordings, historical recording. And so that when we talk
about Mr. Horowitz era, it Mr. Horowitz era is actually also is a court toe. I can say court
toys, I can say the teaching of of of of horror. It's like Shura of Cherkasky's, the Hoffman,
Joseph Hoffman, you know, and the great Paderewski is also this kind of individual speaking. And
but they also Mr. Horowitz has something extraordinary, which is this absolutely sensuous.
And the sensuality in his playing is one of the most important element, I think that that
sometimes people people don't look at it. And I think that the bright side, the spectacular
pyrotechnic, but it's not even that his pyrotechnic is never pyrotechnic. It was it was devil speaking.
It was never I don't ever feel like it was a kind of a show. You know, it's just
incredible temperament burst up. But it's studied. It's all studied. Yeah. And to which that that
that Horowitz always give the respect for your craft, the respect for the piano, to understand
what is piano capability. I think the sonority of the range of the piano is is important here
to do and the passion for the instrument. So it's different, different level. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. But, you know, he lived in a really golden era of piano pianists. And then you are able to
really witness that, you know, his genius sitting right next to you. And then, you know, that legacy
is still carries throughout, you know, obviously from the books recordings, but also through
students, his students, and including you. And then then his even his grand students, I guess,
you know, I think I really would like, you know, very much. And thankfully, you know, I
my position at NYU is it was an NYU is such a great institution in a sense that, you know,
we are very New York institution and allows, you know, NYU, there's no there's no possible
to replicate an NYU campus anywhere on earth. That's not possible. NYU is a community of what
New York is. You can't. The campus is scattered everywhere, but that's how we live.
I remember this way. So that getting back to when, you know, Goronitsky's endowed chair was
established. And I was struck by the fact during the selection process, you know, I asked so, so,
so I got the positions and I was so happy. And then, you know, what is expected of me?
And to which Din said, anything you want to do, anything at all. There is no kind of set criteria
because so then then unlike maybe institutions like Harvard, you know, you do it our way because
it's been established many ways. NYU is very forward looking. And NYU is that, you know,
do whatever you think, you know, just bring your expertise and be yourself. We're not we don't
dictate. And subsequently, when I was also in the chair communities, I mean, you know, for
endowed chair committee, once I remember one of my really, really highly respected person who came
to be in psychology and she he mentioned to me that it was yes, when the reason why he picked NYU
despite he was he was already at a high position everywhere else. They said, you know, he said,
because NYU is free, I can do I can shape the program the way I want it. And no one tells me
but it's because they trust us what to do. So it makes it everyone really striving on their own
term. Yeah. Yeah, I feel the sense. Yeah. And I also see the growth and improvement in terms of
quality. Since I was there over 10 years ago, and now I mean, completely. I mean, it's a wonderful
thing. And building is and they're also building another one of the big one. Yeah. And then because
we got to interview Dr. Marilyn Nonke, who is the piano, piano studies and that was the chair now
for the MTA. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think in many ways, you know, I can attribute to her leadership
and piano studies. Really, she was, she was a very open and then I think it just, she's just an
amazing, amazing colleague and really, really, I mean, it's very open to let everyone the same
to thrive and on your own. Everyone respected a vote for their skill. And no one, no, nothing is
dogmatic. And yeah, and so I think that's important. And the student also reflected in the student
body as well. You know, we, we, we have a very close need student that feel like we nurture each
other. No one feels, you know, but competition is important, but we have a healthy competition.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We want to keep on and on and on. Yes, of course. But here, so, you know,
the time is always the case. So you have to come back to another episode and share all the wonderful
stories. And so, but we have like two or three, two things to maybe discuss. One is the upcoming
concert this coming Thursday. Well, today, yeah. So by the time we release this episode, it's
the two days from now. And so you are doing all this concert on Thursday. It's at the Yamaha
artist services. I think the tickets are all sold out. However, it's going to be live streaming from
the from there too. So make sure we're going to share the link in the description section so that
a lot of people can watch at 730 PM Eastern time on September 22. So it's hosted by the New York
division of the American List Society, right? Being presented by by them and American List Society is
like a group of institution where basically keeping the tradition of France List. Yes, by educating
the Hungarian Council as well. Right. Okay. Yes. And also it's involved as well. So, yeah.
And I spoke I actually emailed Gila Goldstein, who is in charge of the New York
division, and she will be hosting the wonderful concert. So tell us briefly about what you'll be
playing and how you are preparing. So I, you know, I'm doing a journey through this
transcendental age. So yeah, but it's entire thing, entire entire thing. The 12th. I think,
you know, I perhaps I look at it, the most important part, I think that I feel, I feel
there's a kind of sense of arch of stories being unfold, being told in the in the 12th series. And
then, and you know, the transcendental age, this is perhaps the greatest contribution, I think, to
pianistic world, I think, in terms of understanding how the instrument and the approach of
prior to this, you know, if you think of Chopin, for instance, Chopin etude, of who I,
which I adored very much, and I always work at it too, you know, I mean,
and I have performed it to, you know, with certain various degree of success,
including transcendental age, but it's always quite humbling when you do that, but always working at
it. And the differences that, you know, easily, certainly in Chopin is that, you know, he's always
addressing one issue, particular passage and one passage in one etude, but Chopin as a pianist,
also using the facility of the hand facility, much the intricacy of the hand movement,
the finger movement, and also the forearm and etc. But it was not until Liszt, I think, that
really introducing a different level of sonorities. I think that here, it's very important, I think,
for pianists to, as with myself, to understand what the sonorities, the ability to create
a dark orchestrated sound, not just very dark, but meaning this kind of, and Liszt, in terms of
etude, I think is one of the greatest vehicle, I think, you know, it's also for me, you know,
every time I revisit again, and I found I learned great and more, the ability to be more efficient
in creating sound, and both Chopin and Liszt, the coloristic aspect of tone, as a result of the,
you know, the agility of your playing from working at this, it's very apparent. And here,
one can quote, I think, Busoni who said, you know, it was Busoni who said, you know,
it changed his outlook completely. He didn't understand it until he started redoing the entire
Transcendental etude and to become a much more, felt more complete as a pianist. It was a very
important one. And Busoni is not a slouch or a pianist, you know, it was Mr. Faradol who said,
it's a tragedy, I didn't study with Busoni. And that's how important Busoni is in here.
So but the Transcendental etude, so the 12 of them, but I will start with the libistode of Wagner,
Liszt transcribed, I mean Liszt transcribed great many operas including Wagner, the townhouses,
the flying Dutchman and whatnot. So but I decided to do on the libistode because it's
one of the great work. It is truly one of the great work and I remember fondly, of course,
you know, we were working with Mr. Horowitz on the Transcendental etude on the Tristan of his
old days, you know. And so to have that challenge in the story of the Transcendental etude, it's
done in three versions, different versions, and then the teenage version and the middle age version
and the last version in his 50s when he redo this one. And to see the progress of it and how
remarkable it is actually the thematic never changed. And so he just developed a skill and
then the efficiency towards the end, you know, even though the second version, which I always
try to work through it, you know, and not by no means able to bring it to perform, but
there's a kind of economical usage of passage that Liszt is able to accomplish it
more so than the second, but the second is a fascinating study, incredible studies. And then,
you know, I must tell you also the ability for learning this one and of course, you know,
I've always tried to improve the strength and it's how important the left hand is.
And then, you know, I wanted to take that from the Liszt that it was very much what Horowitz said,
to learn piano well, you should learn how to play chord well. And that's really, it's so true in the
Lisztian tradition. And you know, I must tell you this to look back and a lot of things we're
talking about teaching philosophy and whatnot, we get to it that I realized that how close is
actually Horowitz to Chopin in the teaching, in the approach. It's been, when I hear Chopin's,
I mean, I've read Chopin's account on how it is to, he's after, it's very much, and Liszt as well,
and Liszt to me, here in Transcendental Etude, really portraying in one of the, not only just,
it's a pinnacle, I must say it's one of the pinnacle of Liszt, of the Lisztianata being
one of the men, so certainly. But I think here it points at how worldly the large visions of Liszt
is and how noble, and there's nobles oblique, and the generosity of Liszt in his musicality,
and in the harmony as well, and in the chasse n'est, in the paysage, the view. And so
virtuosic has a new term on the Liszt, I think. It's not, I tried, you know, we all tried, I mean,
very hard, you know, it's nice to have a hand that can move comfortably, but sometimes one
had to be very careful to be, in a sense that, you know, I try at least, you know, in my information,
try to have that, to strive for virtuosity that is not flashy, you know, flashy is not a bad word,
but in this sense, it's really missing the point for the Transcendental Etude, and in general for
Liszt anyway, because, you know, Liszt is maybe the composer that, if I looked at it and studied
more and more, I realized how easily Liszt to veer off what his intention was, and in many ways,
also Liszt suffered because of it, and his reputation, but if one look at the way one
looked at Liszt's score, the way I look at Beethoven's score, and it is completely legitimate,
and if he knew every note is not wasted, there is a kind of careful choice of where the placement,
everything, and expressive device too, I mean, it's done in such a way in his writing, and only
the great master can, it is great mastery in shows, for instance in the F minor, the F minor
etude, it was his degree of building up power, and it's building up the sense of level of many
textures and sounds, and it's really quite remarkable.
Yeah, that's so beautiful, thank you so much, oh my god, I feel like this, I had an intense lesson,
no, I understand why, for years he was like, every time before my lesson, I was nervous,
you know, no, I understand, thank you so much, and yeah, and then speak, and then, you know,
we would love to have you come back, and you know, we just cannot wait for this to,
but as a tradition, we always ask our guests to have some advice for some young artists that are
coming up, you know, speaking of as lifelong learners that we all have to be, all have to be,
you know, as pianists, so what would you give to them?
You know, I guess the most, the basic principle being an artist is that you're constantly being
uncertain, and uncertainty is not part of the equation, so I think that uncertainty creates
a lot of doubt, and the doubt you have to direct them, I think that's the hardest things to know,
I think I learned through many years of up and downs, you know, and but one that I really
stick to my mind very much was what Maestro said in the beginning, say don't envy,
and it seems to be like simple, you know, of course, you know, everyone said, you know,
don't be envious, this, that's not, but it is actually important because it colored the way we
hear, and we, if we envy about something, listening to recording too, we tend to not be listening to
what is the, we just see something that is, we felt we are inadequate, so we feel like everyone
is inadequate, yeah, it's, we are inadequate in many ways, but what's important is that, you know,
we struggle, and we work at it, and that becoming who we are, and then that accomplishment through
that work, it's actually your accomplishment, only you have entitled to it, nobody else can be like
that, and so I said to you, to everyone I was, say, you know, be yourself, I mean, that's that,
it's easy to say, but the doubt is ever-present, but without doubt, there will be no learning,
but there's this, I think so, you know, and so sometimes, and we meet somebody who are very
confident, it's, I always wonder whether it's confident or is it insecurity, so I don't know,
you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is close, yeah, yeah, they're close, so I, and also,
career, so-called career, it's so different from one another, there's not two careers alike,
so there's no formulaic way of a career, but the only thing I know is that
you will make a career in whatever capacity, in whatever environment you are, is by always,
I think, to be curious, to be constantly learning, it's not a singular thing, you know,
to be a pianist, if you're only just piano, it's the method the most, I mean, there's other things,
they're creating a personality, they're friends, they're outside, they're great things, you know,
they're many experiences, you know, understanding the craziness of the world, I mean,
the beautiful things of what the world has to offer, the friendship, and I think that in
readings, or whatever, that it becoming a worldly person, I think, is much more, and then you want
to think it's much more, and then you will find your way, and it's sometimes also the persistency,
I must say, the persistency, so by then again, if we talk about persistencies, then does it mean
when I studied music, I practiced music, I guess I don't question,
it is who I am, it is the way I talk, so it is the way I speak, and so I guess, if there's no more
no more issue, you just work, work, eventually, if you do good work, and you accomplish something,
you understand more, I think that there are other people you can share with, and it will be great,
they want to be shared, you know, and it would be nice.
Yes, absolutely.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
Wonderful, wonderful.
Yeah, so, listeners, thank you for listening to us, so I just wanted before we go, I'll tell you that
the American List Society will be presenting the 30th anniversary concert this Thursday,
September 22nd at 7.30 p.m. Eastern Time at the Yamaha Artist Services on 5th Avenue and 54th
Street in Manhattan, then Mr. Halim will be performing all list concert, and it will also
be live streamed on YouTube, and then all the link is in the description section, so I hope you can
attend either by in person or digitally, and thank you, Mr. Halim, but before we go, we have a really
fun segment, it's called the rapid fire question, so we want to ask the really fun and silly questions.
Yeah, oh, this is the most hardest, hardest part.
The hardest part.
So get ready, I'm gonna go first.
What is your comfort food?
I'm spicy food.
Woo, we can be friends.
Cats or dogs?
Dogs.
Yeah, I know this answer.
What is your word?
Cat, dog.
Yes. What is your word or words to live by?
Never give up.
Yes. What is the most important quality you look for in other people?
Warm. Kindness.
What is the worst quality in people you want to stay away from?
Arrogance.
Name three people who inspire you living with them?
Judy.
You know, my family.
And yes, yes, and my dear friends.
Wow, beautiful.
Beautiful.
Yeah, that was an easy one.
Great. Name one piece in your current playlist.
Oh, in on the playlist on.
Yeah.
Black Pink.
Great.
Name one book title in your library.
Stendhal.
The black, the red and the black.
The black and the red.
The red and the black.
I love stories about, you know, and it very tragically.
Romanticism.
That's romanticism right there.
Yes.
Nothing compared to music and romanticism.
You know, but music is so it's unlimited.
Yes.
Sure. Okay. You get only one song or piece to listen to for the rest of your life.
What is it?
I must say.
This always sometimes change and change and change, but I must say it was
Horowitz playing the list.
I must say that's how I remember him.
It was, yeah, that is it's.
It's the most beautiful humanly possible.
And I can feel that the largeness of the generosity of feeling.
It was being portrayed by his playing.
Yeah, that's I would say that would be.
Yeah.
All right. Last question.
Last but not least, music is?
Feel in the flesh.
Music is life.
Thank you so much.
Oh my goodness.
Thank you.
That concludes this episode of the Piano Part.
Thank you, Edouardis, for joining us.
Thank you.
Wonderful time.
Sharing your stories and insights and expertise.
And you can find more information about Mr.
Halleem on his website at edouardishalleem.com.
We want to encourage our audience to tune in this Thursday, September 22nd at 730 to the YouTube
live stream of his All List program concert, hosted by the New York Chapter of the American
List Society.
All the links are listed in the description.
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We will see you for the next episode of The Piano Pop.
Bye everyone and thank you.
It was so much.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you.
Oh wow, thank you.
Thank you.