Florence Price piano concerto was written in
1934 and it was believed that the full score
was lost for a long time until 2019 that they
recovered the part and scores in her abandoned
house. It was quite exciting for all people who
love her music to finally reconstruct the original
score. But it's actually clearly in three sections.
Each section has different feel like the classical
style which has fast, slow and fast structure.
The first movement is kind of like late romantic
style and the middle section is the call and
response between the piano and the oboe and the
last one is a juba dance which is quite exhilarating.
Welcome to another episode of The Pianopod, everyone.
This season, we are exploring creativity and
connection, highlighting artists who are not
only exceptional performers, but who are also
actively reshaping how classical music is experienced,
programmed, and built. Today's guest is pianist
Han Chen. Han is one of those artists who doesn't
just perform at a high level, he builds. From
Beethoven's Hammerklavier to the complete Ligeti
Etudes, he's taken on some of the most demanding
works in the repertoire, while also creating
projects that push beyond the traditional recital
format. He was recently nominated for the 2026
Grammy Award for Best Classical Instrumental
Solo for his recording of Florence Price's Piano
Concerto in One Movement, a piece he describes
as immediate, visceral, and something that really
speaks for itself. His recording of Ligeti's
complete etudes was selected by Alex Ross of
the New Yorker as a notable classical recording
of 2023, and it was actually during the pandemic
while living with these works that a much larger
idea started to form. That idea became Infinite
Staircase. a project that began simply as a way
to reconnect with composer friends and grew into
a 36 -piece program pairing Ligeti's 18 etudes
with 18 newly commissioned works. In this episode,
we talk about that process, what it means to
follow an idea before you know where it will
lead, how curiosity shapes his work, and why,
for him, music is not separate from life, but
part of it. Before we begin, thank you to our
listeners for supporting The Piano Pod. Your
engagement helps sustain this growing community
of artists and thinkers. Here is Season 6 of
The Piano Pod with concert pianist Han Chen.
Please enjoy the show. You are listening to The
Piano Pod, where we talk to the brightest minds
in the industry about how they are bringing the
piano into the future and thriving in a complex,
ever -evolving world. Han, welcome to The Piano
Pod. It's such a pleasure to have you here. Where
are you joining us from today? Well, thank you
for having me. I'm in New York right now in my
home. Oh, great. Do you live in Manhattan? I
live in Long Island City, Queens. Great. Yay.
That's a beautiful part of Queens. Yes. Yeah.
Thank you so much for joining. And we actually
had a chance to work side by side a few years
ago. I don't know if you remember. Yes. Cannot
start a competition. As judges. Yes. Yes. It
was fun. That was a lot of fun. Yes. And in what
feels like a short time ago, but so much has
happened for you and for your career from Infinite
Staircase to... a grammy nomination oh my gosh
congratulations thank you so much thank you that's
a huge deal huge milestone as a as a musician
so i've been spending time some time listening
to your recordings amazing recordings and learning
more about your recent projects. And then what
strikes me is the scale and then the intentionality
behind everything you do, not just as a concert
pianist, but as someone shaping conversations
through programming, commissioning. All of that
leads beautifully into my first question, which
is about the foundation of your artistic world.
With everything you've built and explored as
a concert pianist, recording artist, curator,
and commissioner, of new work. What is the driving
force, meaning your mission and passion behind
your work today? Well, first of all, I love playing
the piano. I think the love for the instrument
and music is definitely the foundation for all
musicians. And I am very lucky coming from a
family where my mom was a piano teacher. So I
was always surrounded by piano students with
people loving the music. And my mom also did
different jobs like she was a temporarily a radio
host for a classical music thing and for a very
very short period of time so she liked to talk
about music to show me all different kinds of
music and she's just really passionate and i
grew up in that environment where that music
is part of our lives so we would go to concerts
we would you know practice my sister is a violinist
it's just everything is so natural to me so i
think from very early on music is so essential
in my life that i don't feel like it is something
uh different from the life itself it is part
of life so um with that uh i remember one special
album that really influenced me a lot is when
I was in high school, I listened to Maurizio
Pellini's album, where he played Boulez's Sonata
No. 2, which is a piece that I always admired,
but I've never tried myself. In that recording,
I was actually learning the Petrushka at the
time, and I wanted to listen to other interpretations,
and I turned on the CD, and I just let the CD...
keep playing and then he played the Webern variations
and then the Boulez Sonata and my mom shouted.
that, what are you listening to? Can you stop
that? And it was just a lot of fun. I mean, I
was very curious. I'm still a very curious person.
I love hearing music that I don't know. And that
became something really driving me when I started
to study music professionally is to discover
new things that I've never heard of before. And
especially when I moved to New York to attend
the Juilliard School, I was surrounded by so
many great composers and they were always exploring
new ideas I have never thought of. So I like,
you know, working with composers because I feel
they are really doing something that is so current
and so new and or just like so innovative. It
doesn't have to be. to be groundbreaking you
know but just like to have this idea and then
you turn that into a piece of music it's just
so fascinating this whole process so then after
um graduation i realized that i really like the
idea of commissioning and i started commissioning
my friends to write for me and then i like playing
their music and it's just naturally you know
i never really thought about that is gonna be
my artistic plan it's just like what happened
to me because i was surrounded by all these great
composers and also of course with your curiosity
right yeah yeah i feel that's very different
from a lot of my colleagues because um even when
i was really young um i always like to play things
i don't know um For example, in my school, where
I was studying at the Shanghai Conservatory Elementary
School, Middle School, High School, it's all
one school, that we had technical exams. So you
have to play etudes. You know, everyone plays,
you have to play Chopin etudes, you have to play
Liszt etudes, and then blah, blah, blah. And
then you can choose a free one. Most people will
just do Rachmaninoff, you know, that's like the
safest choice. But I was, I... I was in a bookstore,
a score store that I was just browsing around.
And then I discovered the Ligeti Etudes, which
I had never heard of as a, I think, a middle
schooler at the time. I was like, what is this?
And I opened a score and I couldn't understand
a thing. I was like, what is this? I have to
at least purchase that score first and then to
figure it out. And luckily, my teacher at the
time. just graduated from the Manhattan School
of Music and went back to Shanghai to teach and
he was really open -minded and he let me play
that one of the piece from the collection for
my exam. I don't know how I did at a time but
you know that just opened a door for me to always
explore new things. Wow so you just told me a
lot of things about you and you know as several
years ago sitting right next to you I just didn't
realize how you know curious of a person you
were so i'm so happy that we're having this conversation
so um yeah you mentioned the gettys uh but you
know what let's talk about your grammy nomination
right so yeah the 2026 grammy award for best
classical instrumental solo for your recording
of florence prices piano concerto in one movement
really congrats oh my gosh that's a Huge, huge
thing. And I've been listening to the album over
the past few days and including the violin concerto
and other works by Florence Price. And then the
concerto itself is incredibly compelling, of
course. And there's so much such clarity and
sweep and conviction in your plays. And so when
you recorded it, then received the Grammy recognition
down the road. And what did that mean to you
personally? Well, I was first approached by my
label Nexus to record this concerto. They have
been doing a series of her orchestral works in
the past few years. So I think this was the fourth
album that they put out of music by Florence
Price. And they asked me whether I was interested.
And at a time, to be honest, I didn't know her
music. I had to listen to... her music online,
to listen to other music by her as well, not
just the concerto, to understand what I was going
to play. And, you know, at the moment I heard
the concerto, I immediately fell in love. It
is something that is so visceral that you listen
to it and it gets into you. I remember i started
practicing it and my mother -in -law was with
us at the time and she could hum the melody after
a few days so that's that kind of music you know
it's just so touching and um so immediate that
it gets to your heart um so i said yes and i
prepared for it i went to record but this whole
time i you know it's my fifth album so i didn't
think about, I didn't think that it would lead
to something, you know, just like I keep recording
music and recording music is fun, you know, and
it's such a great music. So I went and I met
this conductor, John Jeter, who has been the
one who recorded all the Florence Price's music.
And he is very involved in the whole process
of getting on the ballot of the grammy and then
to you know to campaign for it and to talk to
people about this whole thing and he brought
me in he was like um i was gonna do this thing
do you wanna join me and i said yes i didn't
know what that meant at the time i just felt
that we did a good recording of this i want people
to listen to it so um then the recording was
released and then we went to la to play excerpts
of it to you know make people realize that there's
this album on the ballot people should listen
to it and then we got the nomination it just
happened that way and I was extremely lucky and
grateful for this whole thing whole process felt
really smooth and it's just it was like you put
in the work and it happened but you know in music
a lot of time it's not the way you're putting
a lot of effort and you don't know what's gonna
happen but this was really really um very lucky
for me to get this for this recording and i just
came back from the ceremony uh half a week ago
it was a lot of fun uh at the crypto arena and
the peacock theater uh i got to meet so many
great great musicians there a lot of composers
a lot of uh conductors instrumentalists it's
just a lot of uh great minds coming together
so i was very lucky um to be there and i was
also very honored because then the winner of
my category was yoyo ma and to about just be
in the vicinity of that name it's just like a
dream country for me yeah but you know nomination
itself is already winning, right? You're the
winner. So I really want to congratulate you.
So bravo to you. Yeah, it's not only your talent,
but also it's a long years and years of training
and dedication. So yeah, it's almost almost two
years since we recorded this album. So that's
how long this whole process took. That's fantastic.
You know, and this piece is also iconic like
you know it was premiered in 1930s and in a with
price herself at the piano right what a what
a you know history and legacy and how do you
hold that legacy honoring her yeah Well, she
is so cool. I love hearing about her. And you
know that she went to the New England Conservatory
where I also went to school. So I felt that legacy
is part of my education. I love the fact that
we went to the same school and stuff like that.
But like you said, her concerto was premiering
in the 1930s and it was actually one of the most
performed pieces. of hers in her lifetime. So
she played herself, she conducted, but also other
people performed this work. It's just so popular
at the time. It's a great work, has many different
emotions. It has more songful first movement,
but it also has a dance in the last movement.
So it can fit into many different occasions.
It could be traditional. classical concert. It
could be a pop concert. It could be a lot of
things. You know, it's just great music to be
programmed. And if 17 minutes, it fits with other
pieces. But the thing is that when Florence passed
away, the score, the full score was lost. So
people didn't have the access of the full score,
but they had the two piano arrangements. So people
still knew about this piece, but they were just
not performing it. until um well trevor was commissioned
to reconstruct the orchestra part but then in
2009 that the uh florence prices scores were
rediscovered in her abandoned house in illinois
and this whole resurgence of her scores became
a big thing that people started to go through
the, I think, some 900 scores to just to know
what was in there. And then eventually the original
full score was published. So that's the score
we used in the recording. And I feel like to
be part of this whole legacy of hers and to the
story of discovering is just so, it's something
that you cannot dream of. You cannot. work hard
towards it's just like it happened that time
and then you join the force of this whole thing
and you know as a musician we study music history
all the time and this is the kind of thing you
you want to be part of you know like it's not
something that people can um create it's just
it's not a good thing because it was lost but
the resurgence the rediscovering is something
as a musician you want to be part of and i was
just so honored to be part of this So when listeners
hear your recording today, what do you hope they
experience from your performance beyond the story
surrounding the composer? What do you hope they
actually hear in the music itself? Well, as much
as I love to talk about stories, because I mean,
stories are great. I feel music has to speak
for itself. And I feel this piece definitely
speaks for itself. It doesn't, I think the audience
doesn't have... have to know the story behind
it to appreciate it to enjoy it to be moved by
the music so i would just say just listen to
it and enjoy it as you like I have been, I want
to talk about your infinite staircase. Oh my
gosh, this project, it happened two years ago,
three years ago, something like that. Three years
ago. But let's start from your recording of the
Ligeti Etudes. So, you know, I have been listening
to that album on streaming and then to master
all 18 of them, those Ligeti, it was almost...
That itself is a huge milestone as a pianist.
And what did it mean for you to live with and
learn all these and record the complete Ligeti
Etudes? So they are so difficult. It all went
back to the pandemic when it was shut down. Naturally,
a lot of people lost what they were doing. I
wanted to do something, although we were shut
down. We were at home, and I discussed with my
label company, and I brought up that the centenary
of Ligeti was coming up, whether they were interested
in doing an album of Ligeti's etudes. I mean,
I was just throwing out ideas. It's just one
of the ideas I threw out at them, and they picked
up this one. To be honest, at the time, I only
knew two or three etudes in my hands. I'd have
played only two or three. But to play 18, I didn't
know what I was getting myself into. I was just
like, okay, let's do it since there's nothing
else to do. So I started learning it. And of
course, I gave myself a lot of time. I think
I prepared for almost a year before the recording
happened. So I was just learning, practicing,
learning, practicing. um and i i have to say
now looking back at it i felt that these attitudes
helped me through the pandemic because you know
pandemic is such a difficult time for everyone
and especially for performing artists like you
don't have a stage to go on to and you don't
have we love connecting with people you don't
connect with people you're just playing the music
and um the difficulty of life was sort of getting
better when you are facing something so difficult
at the piano. Because every day I wake up, I
do these etudes. It feels like the life is actually
easier than what I was doing with the Ligeti
etudes. So learning these pieces really helped
me. alive at a time that everything was not alive
literally and and then you know during the pandemic
in new york it was a little a little better and
then it got worse again a little better it got
worse again so uh i really felt that um this
wave that we were writing was pretty in sync
with my feeling with the attitudes like some
days i will feel good about them i feel sometimes
i feel that these are impossible actually all
the emotions and everything it just transcended
into my musical journey and i felt that i was
again lucky to have that because a lot of people
were probably not having a thing to do but me
having something to hold on to was actually a
good thing at the time. I would say that if we're
not the pandemic, I wouldn't be doing this project,
I guess. But this was really, I feel very, you
know, happy to have done it. But again, I love
connecting with people. And as I said, I have
so many composer friends surrounding me and all
that. And it's always commissioning and everything.
What did I do in the pandemic was that I also
wanted to connect with people. And luckily, one
of my, we're talking about influence staircase,
one of my friends, Nina Yang, the composer, she
told me about the project she was doing. She
was writing in pair to the Bach, I think it was
the two -part invention, maybe the two -part
and three -part. So for each invention and symphonica,
they found a composer to write in response. to
those pieces. And we were just chatting. I was
like, maybe I'm playing 18 Ligeti etudes. Maybe
I can do the same thing. So she gave me the idea
of commissioning 18 composers to write in response
to these etudes, because that's what I was practicing.
And if I were to invite someone to do something
related to what I was doing, that's the way to
do it. i started writing to my friends i started
to connect with them it's like i was thinking
in my mind that it's actually a great excuse
to reach out to people i just i don't want to
be the creepy person just emailing out of blue
saying that oh i miss you can we talk or no but
i yes i use that as an excuse to to you know,
reconnect with my friends and also make new friends
because I then had to find more composers on
board for the 18 etudes. And when I was reaching
out, I didn't know where I was going to perform
them, what I was going to do with them, or whether
I was going to record them or anything. I had
zero idea. I was just like, I'm going to ask
first. And as part of my personality, I'm not
sure about you, but I'm always the person that
I do things first, and if it doesn't go through,
I'll just forget about it. So I was actually
having that mindset. I was just like, let's try,
and if it doesn't work, then never mind. But
then, surprisingly, all the composers said yes
to me. I mean, they were so... They were probably
bored at home as well, but they were so generous
to be part of this project. to do this i was
um paying very little at a time um i also didn't
have a promise of a venue to perform but they
just like said sure i will write you something
so i asked each of them to just write me something
two to three minutes in response to the etudes
and and here i had the project and after that
i started to look out for people who would be
producing the concert a venue and then a donor
and everything it's just like things came after
the project was formulating and so i now always
tell people that you if you have an idea you
just execute it first even though you might not
have the resource at a time but if you really
create something things will follow Well, at
least for me, that was how it happened. I know
it's not always the case, but I got lucky at
the time that people really liked the idea. And
there are just so many composers on board, so
people really treated it as a very big project.
But, you know, in my mind, it was just me connecting
with my old friends. But, you know, the idea
of playing the Getty came from your... youth
when you were right right and then that became
the album and became this project that's huge
that's something meaningful right yeah yeah it
feels like it combined all my interests together
yeah yeah then tell me so exactly how you executed
this project did it become an album or did it
become a concert yeah so um eventually i premiered
all um 18 new pieces at the national sawdust
brooklyn on september 24th 2023 that is the premiere
concert and i where i played all legacy attitudes
and the 18 commissioned uh pieces and i just
recorded all of them last year the 18 new pieces
and it will be probably released next year in
2027 it's just um we are editing it right now
so it's actually pretty much still in my life
right now to listen to all these works and to
read the scores that they wrote to go back to
emails that we wrote to each other it's just
a lot of fun um and um i also perform these pieces
a selection of the pieces in my recitals when
i go to different places to perform i choose
the the pairs or maybe i just play the new pieces
and and that way i get to play them in different
occasions. It's a kind of project that is so
cool when you put all together but it's also
very cool to pick out individual pieces to see
what the composers were thinking. You can see
that it's so different. Everyone approached this
project so differently and it's just so cool
to see because you wouldn't be able to see that
if you don't have a I'm calling it a foundation,
like the legalty attitude is the foundation,
right? You have to give them this foundation,
but how they deal with this, so different. I
mean, when I was commissioning them, I explicitly
said that I don't want them to feel limited by
this attitude, that they could do whatever they
want. So you can see that some of them really
just not. really not doing anything or or trying
to draw more extra musical idea from the etude
but some of them use literal quotation from the
work and then develop a complete new piece out
of it so yeah it's just so fascinating you know
composers are so much fun yes wow that is fascinating
and so 18 different people and so how did so
each one of them were paired with one specific
Ligeti i asked them to to uh tell me what which
one they want to be paired off but i said whoever
comes first get to choose so i gave them a little
bit urgency there so yeah they uh most of the
most of them got what they wanted but there are
a couple of the more popular ones that they didn't
get so yeah first comes first served right there's
no better way exactly that's great so one of
those but maybe tell us a little bit about those
18 composers maybe you know on top of your head
i i don't know if you can name all their names
but maybe their backgrounds like nationality
yeah most of them are my friends and they are
from all different places just like your classmates
at juilliard they're all from different places
um let me think well um there are of course american
composers but there are also chinese composers
korean composers um Iranian composers in there.
And yeah, it's just all different. But, you know,
I really didn't think about that when I was asking
them. I was just asking whoever came to my mind,
you know. And we'll talk about one of these Chinese
composers. Very cool. Meng Wang, who is now teaching
at Manus, I think. was very interested in many
different things, but one of them is the theatrical
aspect of performance. So she had me stand up
and use a guitar pick to pluck the strings. And
she created this effect that is more like a Chinese
instrument Yangtze kind of effect. I was playing
the keys and then I plucked the string and I
play the key, I pluck the same string and I keep
playing like that. And it just creates a very
zen feeling. And I was actually reaching over,
but also with my hand down there and standing
up and it looks like I was hugging the piano.
And then I have to move around and stuff like
that. It's almost like a dance. So it's very
cool because I'm not the best person to use the
whole body. I'm not. that coordinated and everything
and you know my foot really hurt it in the performance
because i had to stretch so far to reach the
strings and stuff but yeah um but it was fun
it was just like you you can see that a different
composer has different idea of music and that
was totally out of my comfort zone but i still
loved it right wow wonderful so to perform all
36 Did you go like this one Ligeti and then one
paired composer or how did you program? That
was my original idea and I realized that the
music doesn't flow that well. Eventually we came
up with six sets. Every set has six pieces in
them. And ideally all six are pairs, but I don't
go with the order. I go with how the music develops.
So I still want to create a narrative out of
this program. So it may be that I play three
Ligeti etudes and then I play three. commission
works. Or I do in pairs, but then flip order
and stuff like that. It all depends on how the
music connect with each other in between. And
all six sets, I was working with this Metropolis
Ensemble based in New York that they had this
great idea that they commissioned another sound
designer or composer that he created electronic
backdrops. in between pieces, in between sets.
So at the beginning of the concert, I walked
out on stage and I started playing the first
set. After I played the first set, I stayed seated
at the piano and the light dims and then electronic
music for one minute and I rest. And when the
electronic music finishes, the light comes back
on and I play the second set and then so on.
So I never leave the stage. I keep playing all
36. But in between sets, I have one to two minutes
of breaks where they play electronic music in
the background. Wow. Because we want to be as
compact as possible. We don't want people...
i leave people clap i come back clap again and
it's just wasting a lot of time and it's such
a long program eventually the whole thing it
was it's not that long after all it was about
two hours ish two two hour ish something like
that but because of course there are still breaks
and stuff like that and then clap at the beginning
at the end and talk and it's a lot of things
so i thought that was the best way to you know
just do it in sets wow but oh my goodness i i
you have to really have the stamina the endurance
yeah it was yeah yeah and now i want to thank
with composers because they didn't really give
me that heart of the time you know a lot of them
are writing pieces where i could breathe so that
was really good breath so that's that's so difficult
and even like in your Ligeti album you didn't
do it in order right like yeah the book one came
and the book three or two came and uh I don't
remember exactly but one book three book two
right yeah but in concert because i have played
all 18 etudes in one concert the best way is
to for me is to do book three book one intermission
and book two it's just because book three starts
a little easier and so you warm up and then book
one ends so well book one is actually designed
to perform as one piece by Ligeti so one number
one to number six etudes the end of number six
is a great you know piece to end the first half
Then book two is the longest. It just stands
itself for a full half. So I think that's my
concert order. But in the recording, we started
with book one. So let's go back to this title,
the infinite staircase. I'm sure the staircase
comes from the famous devil's staircase, correct?
by Ligeti Etude. And so Infinite, I love that.
So the possibilities are infinite, I guess. Yes,
Infinite, it comes from the next Etude by Ligeti,
number 14. What is it called? Infinite Column,
I think. Yeah, and those two pieces are the hardest
ones in the Ligeti sets. So I chose... both words
from the two etudes. The funny thing about the
number 14 etude is there's actually a second
version. There are two versions of this piece,
14 and 14a. 14a is actually the original one.
Ligeti wrote the original one first and it was
too difficult to perform, so he had to come up
with the easier one. But then the original one
became the one that he put on player piano. so
automatic piano could play because there's so
many notes but then people started playing them
and I was asked you know I was when I was proposing
this whole project Nexus was like can you also
do 14 -8 I didn't know at the time I was like
okay sure why not and so that one is the most
painful one to do but I don't do that in concerts
yeah that it only exists in my recording and
I'm glad to not play it again. But you did it.
You did it in the recording. That's amazing.
Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Thanks to my engineer
who is, you know, a magician. He could do anything.
So then, you know, how do you envision from here?
So now that I was about to ask, you know, what
happened to those commissioned works, then you
said you record it. So do you have now, Any more
ideas or vision about this whole Infinite Staircase
project? Yeah, I do want to play more. Not only
the Ligeti Etudes, but also the commissioned
works. I feel that when the album comes out,
it will help the composers to be heard by more
audience. And hopefully people will be talking
about this project again so that people would
listen to them and to get to know all the composers
and to know their work, not just the ones they
wrote for the Infinite Staircase, but in their
career that they are doing so many great things.
And I'm also commissioning more works. So I hope
that things will fall through. It's just always
the timing and the budget and everything is always
the most difficult part. It's harder than playing
the piano, trust me. So, yeah, it always takes
a lot of time, but I'm always hopeful that things
will happen. You mentioned a little bit about
your childhood. And so you grew up in Taiwan.
Your mother is a piano instructor and so on.
So I'm curious, can we revisit your childhood?
Because it's so fantastic coming from that background.
But was there a moment when music suddenly shifted?
Oh, this is something I want to do and just meant
something. Yeah. There's a very personal experience
to me that I had a very close friend in my middle
school that we always hang out and everything.
And we always like to go out to play. But as
you know, like you need to practice. And at the
time I was preparing for this competition, it
was actually my first time coming to America
for. competition in phoenix arizona i was probably
12 or 13 and then i was um that day i was supposed
to be practicing at home and but my friend asked
me to go out with them to go play and i forgot
what we were going to do but i remember vividly
that they got really angry at me saying that
do you really love piano so much like are you
really gonna be a pianist or what it's very funny
because we're all so childish it's just like
it's just like the way they said it made me really
think about it because i didn't have to think
about it for all of this time i was just practicing
studying and i went to music school i went into
music school from grade three So it's just so
natural that everyone else was doing this and
I didn't have to think about it. So when they
asked me this question, I was like, oh, like.
are there any other choices? Can you not be a
pianist? I was like, I didn't even think about
that. But at the time I was just like angrily
said that, of course, yeah, I'm going to win
this competition, blah, blah, blah, which I didn't.
But anyway, I went back to practice and everything.
And it just like made me start to think about
it. And I just realized that music is a good
thing. every time every day i sit in front of
piano of course i like all all every like everyone
we hate practicing but still practice makes me
practice actually makes me relax mentally not
like physically or psychologically because you
suffer yes but but if i don't practice i suffer
more i realized i don't know just like As long
as I know today I practiced, I feel better about
myself. I feel I accomplished something. Yeah,
yeah. Right, yeah. So that accomplishment, the
feeling of that you did something, it's not easy
to get. And afterwards I realized. Only recently
I realized. A lot of people, they do so many
things in their lives, but they feel not accomplished.
And I think playing the piano is the way for
me to feel. accomplishment so i feel that is
actually a given a giving that how do i say um
it is a gift not everyone has and since i already
had it this whole time i feel i might as well
keep playing the piano I hope that makes sense.
It's not because that I think my career is so
great that blah, blah, blah. No, I actually feel
that everyone's career is difficult and there's
no one having a perfect career or anything. But
it's just because that playing the piano itself
gives me a sense of accomplishment that helped
me through this whole time. I decided when I
was going to music school, I was going to do
music. So that never changed. Even though there
are times where I feel like I will not be able
to just play the piano and survive, I still think
that I would just play the piano. Because anything
else I do, I don't feel satisfied. So I feel
that if... This is a young person who listens
to this podcast and think that they want to know
whether they want to choose this career. Just
ask yourself whether you could live without it.
That's my answer. Well, thank you for sharing
that. Now, was your mother your first teacher?
Thankfully, no. She knew from the very beginning
that she would not hold herself well if she became
my teacher. And she had her colleague teach me
at the beginning. And very early on, she sent
me to teach her at the local music department
for pre -college in Taiwan so that I could have
a more... formal training because she never my
mom never went to conservatory and she studied
piano on her own in fact that she really wanted
to become pianist herself but her dad didn't
allow her and her dad was against piano study
because we didn't they didn't have much time
much money at the time and she didn't want to
spend money to buy a piano and to send her to
lessons and stuff so she had to go to um she
actually saved money and go to lessons herself
So she really loved piano. And funny thing was
that when my dad and my mom got married, their
honeymoon was at the Juilliard School. What?
There is this ESL English program every summer.
I'm not sure whether it's still happening, but
they had the Juilliard dorm as their dormitory
for the summer school. So they picked that specifically
that she could see what the Juilliard School
looked like. So they did that for, I think, two
weeks or three weeks at the dorm. And then they
went on a road trip to the Niagara Falls in Canada
and stuff like that, just driving it. But the
cruel thing is that they did that after I was
born. So they didn't even take me there. I was
just like with my grandparents at home and they
went on this honeymoon. But ever since that I
was studying piano, she would tell me all the
things she saw at the Juilliard. And I don't
remember a lot of things, but one thing that
she kept saying that is that, you know, like
every student at Juilliard could play all Chopin
etudes perfectly. You have to learn all different
edges and stuff like that. And yeah, she was
just like really loving it. But she never had
that education. So she sent me to her college
to study and then went to music school. But she
was always there when we practiced. So she was
around, you know, and she would watch me and
my sister practice. But that vision was already
in you, you know? Yeah, I would say that this
is a happy ending that I did end up at Juilliard.
Otherwise, I think she will not be happy or anything.
But yeah, after Taiwan, we moved to Shanghai
because my dad was doing business in Shanghai.
And so I went to the Shanghai Conservatory Elementary
School from grade four and then middle school
and high school. And it was there that I... had
this teacher who just came back from New York.
So they were more in tune with what was happening
and how I should prepare and everything. So going
to Juilliard was always like the only path that
they were thinking that they wanted that to happen.
And when I got in, I think that they were all
just like so happy and so, you know, so thankful.
And after that, my mom really... asked me to
do anything anymore. It's like her job is done.
So you came to the United States officially,
like moved to the United States as a college.
For college, yeah. Juilliard. And tell me more
about that time. Maybe the mentors, teachers
you met. Yeah, at the Juilliard school, I studied
with Veda Kaplinsky. And I think our time was
the best time. I really, I really miss the school
time. I'm still living in New York, you know,
but when you're at school, it's different feeling.
Why I said that our time was the best time was
because we didn't have any good system for practice
rooms. That was the case for a long time, I know,
but... Recently, they became an online register
system where you can book practice rooms online
or at a kiosk or something. But at our time,
you have to physically look for a practice room.
And my favorite thing is when you cannot find
a practice room and you go out with all your
friends. You have a great excuse not to practice.
So that was a great time. My teacher, Beta, was
really, really supportive of whatever I did.
Oftentimes, I was caught up in the concerts I
gave myself. Not that I had any goals or anything.
I was just trying out so many different things.
So I would ask myself to... do crazy stuff that
is not aligned with traditional classical music
study and she was always fine with it. I cannot,
I never asked her why because she sometimes is
pretty strict with other students that I know
because I talk to other classmates and for example
I have a classmate she told me that Veda asked
her to learn a new piece every week. She never
did that to me. She knew I was already doing
so many things. I was in the Axiom, which is
the new music ensemble at the school. We do commissions.
We do new music from 20th century, from 21st
century. We have rehearsal. We have performances.
I was doing Focus Festival where they do all
the new music. I don't think it's existing anymore,
but a lot of new music stuff. I was playing Composer's
Concert where I play my friends' pieces. I help
them premiere and stuff like that. I was actually
also taking composition lessons myself. I was
interested in writing and everything. I don't
really write anymore, but I sometimes still do
a couple of things. but it's just like so interesting
so many different things not the piano i i was
not really doing the beethoven or the chopin
or everything which which was fine and until
one day i told veda that i was gonna do a recital
at poho poho and you know poho is where you know
all the big concerts happen for the students
i myself booked whole hall and created my own
program i was gonna do all john cage sonata's
interviews with prepared piano and i talked to
the piano technician department myself saying
that i'm gonna do that give me a piano i can
ruin i didn't say that literally but they gave
me a smaller piano where they they are okay with
me putting screws and all the plastics and everything
inside the strings and i dyed my hair blonde
I put on weird clothes and I went on, I played
an hour long of John Cage. And because I was
doing that at the time, I went to lesson and
I told Veda that I didn't have anything to play
for you. But if you come down to Paul Hall, I
can play the John Cage for you. So she never
leaves her studio, you know, but she came down
to Paul Hall with me to listen to me play John
Cage. now i think about it when i look back i
was just so in awe of what how how open -minded
she was and how how like rude i was no no i don't
think you were rude but that yeah i was yeah
i had some guts and i i'm always the only student
who would give like the weird requests to the
teacher you know like come listen to junkage
stuff like that but you know i That's a great
story. I really enjoyed my time there because
everyone gave me so much freedom. I feel it didn't
cause any trouble, I think. But I think I did
things that other people wouldn't do, other students
wouldn't do. But then who taught you, John Cage?
You just learned on your own? i learned um i
consulted with the conductor who were who was
already doing junkage in their program so i was
asking i also had a mentor who was doing a lot
of new music at a time it's just like there are
people doing new music but it's just not part
of the curriculum you know you have to reach
out yourself to people who have experience with
it um but after after a few years of craziness
i still went back to more traditional stuff i
went to competitions i did all that i did all
the competitions i played all the classical stuff
i also you know had chamber music and concerto
competition and stuff like that so i would say
that it the school gave me a very well -rounded
education and also at the same time i had the
room to reach out to new things on my own and
then your masters and beyond you still right
i well i finished my master's at the juilliard
school and that was actually the so now we're
getting deep here yes so you realize that you
will not have a career after you graduate so
at a time i didn't know what to do so i realized
maybe i should go back to competitions and i
wouldn't say that's a stupid um decision because
of course you do whatever you can do but Thinking
about competition can give you a career is a
stupid thing. But anyway, I went back. So I actually,
after graduating my master's from Juilliard School,
I took a year off and then went to New England
Conservatory to do my graduate diploma, where
in my mind was that I will just do competition
in these two years. So I did that. I went to
study with Ms. Wakan Byun, who is very well known
in the competition field. as you can imagine
and you know uh yun chan was her student student
and stuff like that it's just like a lot of great
people coming out from competitions was related
to her so a lot of people wanted to study with
her so i played for her she accepted me and in
those two years i was really doing competitions
was doing all that um but the thing is that i
was still that same person you know i was like
still doing crazy stuff so i was actually living
in new york commuting to boston to take lessons
and come back because i still i already had some
gigs here like mostly new music composer related
gigs so i didn't want to give that up but i also
wanted to study and then to go to competitions
I think I did okay in competition. I didn't win
anything big, but I went to all the good ones.
And she really taught me a lot, but she knew
I was so into new music and stuff. So, you know,
New England Conservatory has people coming in
to give masterclasses. And one of them was Thomas
Addis. Thomas Addis came and I always loved Thomas
Addis' music from very, very early on. I was
playing his music. I already met him in Music
Academy of the West, but then I wanted to record
all his music. So that was actually my third
album was all Thomas Edison piano music. Yes.
So I took the master class and this piano really
helped me talking to Thomas Edison saying that
you know this kid wants to record all his music
and so he gave me a private lesson afterwards
and stuff like that so in that sense that Ms.
Byung was also very very well aware that I was
not going to do the traditional competition route
so she already thought that I could you know
meet up with composer and then create projects
and stuff like that so she was also very encouraging
I always get to a lucky spot along the way. Although
I was in a very tough spot, but then there's
always one thing that I could hold on to. And
I think that's how I survived until today. There's
always one thing that works. I think that's enough.
That's what you call being innovative and creative,
no? You carve your own path. You carve your own
path. That really resonates with me because I
think there's already no such thing as a traditional
path as we think of being a pianist. Even when
you are Yunchan, for example, you have to do
something, right? You have to have a project.
You have to do maybe all Chopin or maybe all
Bach or maybe even Yunchan did Thomas Edison's
piece, you know? And he also commissioned Korean
composers. to write for him in his recital so
it's just like it's just like it's all so so
self -motivated this whole career thing so you
have to carve your own thing so i really like
that so after that after my graduate diploma
i came i really came back to new york i went
to the cuny graduate center the city university
of new york and then i studied with uh ursula
oppens who is a very well -known figure in the
new music field she has commissioned all these
pieces in the 20th and 21st century and she really
pushed me to do all the crazy projects that we
were talking about and she was never short of
inspiration so because you know looking at her
project and then mine is like it's nothing she
has done crazier stuff so yeah so whatever i
did she was just like always very supportive
and then gave me a lot of advice and inspiration
So I know you mentioned in the guest form, you
know, I hand out the guest form to every guest
so that I can learn more about each guest and
then, you know, so that we can have a meaningful
conversation. So you said you want to discuss
about creative programming. So tell me. Right.
Well, I think of programming. as if you are curating
a show in a museum um my second love will be
museum with art history and paintings and stuff
like that so i if i'm not practicing i'm always
loving to go to galleries and museums i even
when i was at aspen music festival I was so bored
at the festival. I mean, it's a great festival.
It's just that pianists didn't need to do orchestra
stuff. And we did have a lot of time. And when
I was not practicing, I was actually interning
at the museum, the local Aspen Museum. So I did
all that. This is all very fun. And to program
a concert, first of all, I think music is the
most important thing, of course. It's like how
you play and how the music is. I'm not saying
that you have to, you know, compromise that to
come up with a great program. But after that,
how you put the program together, it's just so
fun. You know, there are many different ways
to think about programming. But for me, I like
to think that I'm giving my audience an emotional
right. So we are going through all different
emotions and then we arrive at a final destination
and I want you to have that when you go home.
So first, I'm also very traditional in that sense.
I feel like I like to have a culmination of a
concert where it's like so... crazy and loud
and everything but i also like to have a little
low point maybe a more serene part of the concert
so that is so different from the infinite staircase
but that's not true because like i said the infinite
staircase composers does have pieces that's very
very slow and zen and very um intimate and everything
so that's why i said that i didn't really do
pairs because i want to still have that flow
of up and downs in my program and after that
you can start to think about you are a historian
where you can think about how things connect
extra musically So Ligeti was a way for me to
connect with the new pieces. Because if you just
look at the 18 composers, it's really hard to
draw that connection. But because they are all
responding to Ligeti, that creates a theme for
this concert. But for example, the concert I'm
playing at the Phillips Collection this March,
that there is an exhibition happening at the
Phillips Collection about Jean Miro. and so the
presenter and us roberta michel the flutist and
i are co -presenting this concert that we all
think about how the musical circle was like or
the elite circle the cultural thing was like
when miro was creating in paris so we had composers
who lived in paris at a time from the rest to
boulez to strafinski to untile all that, like
all these composers around Miro to put together
a program. And it's just like fun to think about
that because we're not really thinking about
his personal connections per se. We're thinking
about more of the whole theme in large. And that
gives the backdrop to the exhibition that the
audience can listen to music from that time,
but also see the art from that time. It's just,
I love that connection. It's so cool. And of
course we cannot do that without the collection
having that exhibition. No, but others you can,
I also like to think about programming just as
like your treasure box. You just say. always
pull out your favorite pieces to play and when
i say that i really am torn because people nowadays
really think about programming as a political
output of like your ideology i don't think that's
the case i think music is music because that
transcends everything that you talk about not
because that these things are not important but
because it can be transcended that these things
are equally important. So, you know, when I program,
I really try not to think too much about what
I have included in my program. I think more about
if I am an honest person, that did I really include
all my friends, like all the people I know here
in New York? Did I really listen to all the music
possible to appreciate them? Did I get to know
enough about all these composers to understand
what they are going through and what they could
be representing? So those are the questions I
ask myself, rather than that I'm just including
this because of blah, blah, blah, A and B. And
so you're thinking much larger. concept i guess
now so which do you like better the traditional
setting of concert halls or those kind of immersive
spaces or it's not a either or i guess right
i think it depends on the music as well um i
feel concert halls are great because they are
giving the audience a very concentrated mindset
to listen to music but the immersive ones are
more you know it opens up different sense in
you so all that visual effect and everything
is also so cool. But there are instances where
that it cancels out itself. So it's a dangerous
thing. I feel as musicians, we should really
focus on music. And if you are to incorporate
that other aspects of senses, you should give
that to other professionals to deal with it.
So in my Infinite Staircase concert, we had lighting
designers and... you know electronic music designers
like they all take care of that so i don't need
to worry about it so that came out well but um
i have in student times tried to do that myself
and it was total disaster so i don't recommend
it you can't do everything right yeah now we're
you know getting toward the end of our conversation
but i have just a few more you've built projects
that feel forward thinking and what is your broader
vision for the future of classical music as an
industry well i'm too small to talk about the
big future and everything that people talk about
but i like how a friend of mine always say that
whatever you do is like a little drop in the
bucket and it could you know overflow when everyone's
doing that i feel that classical music can reach
more people if it gives the chance for people
to listen to them and i recently came across
with an article I think it's a hot take, but
Evan Schinner, a very, very great pianist and
podcaster, you probably know that he had this
article on New York Times about how classical
music shouldn't change. That's saying that maybe
an orchestra shouldn't give out non -classical
music to goers or stuff like that. It's a really
hot take, but I kind of like that. Because I
am so privileged in New York. We have all this
new music audience. I do crazy stuff. I can play
two and a half hours new music and people come
to listen to it. But it's not the mainstream.
I understand that. I'm also in love with classical
music, of course. So whenever I do classical
music, I just keep asking myself why they had
to. listen to this and for me the answer is very
easy because i cannot live without it but for
people who never who never you know listen to
classical music i feel they they need a chance
to get into this maybe a friend who listens to
classical music or maybe a podcast a great podcast
people talk about classical music or maybe a
movie about classical music or maybe something
But classical music itself is perfect. It doesn't
need to change. It doesn't need to become viral.
It doesn't need to become a 15 second thing or
it doesn't need to become, I don't know, just
like to change the form itself. I think it's
not necessary. So that's the hot take, but how
that can really, you know, build into the future.
I don't know, but I try myself to really. deliver
the best i could and i just hope that people
would see the value in it then uh what's coming
up next for you as an artist uh like uh new next
project maybe you can share with our audience
sure um my next album is coming out in may i'm
playing anton rubinstein's sonatas number three
and four. I have already recorded number one
and two. Now I'm recording number three and four,
which are less well -known romantic pieces, but
really, really epic ones. Each one is like 30,
40 minutes long. So it's crazy, but it's fun.
It's very Rubinstein if you know his music. And
number three and four are one of the best. He
himself performed them in his concerts throughout
the world. He actually came to the United States
to perform. I don't have the exact numbers in
my head, but I believe he was here for 250 days
and he gave 235 concerts. Sometimes three concerts
a day. And I'm not talking about the recitals
nowadays. He gives concerts that's four hours
long. And yeah, he's a character and he's a great,
he's a very important figure in the classical
music world because he opened like this conservatory,
he gave recitals, he conducted, he did so many
things to make classical music the way it is
nowadays. So I think it's great to be recording
his music. I'm very excited for this to come.
Great. That's coming in May. 2026 and how about
how about the uh those 18 commission pieces uh
when are they coming as an i believe that should
probably be in 2027 that'll be the next year
where we after we edit the pieces and then you
know mastering that will take a while I just
finished recording, so we'll see. Yes. Then in
the meantime, you'll be performing live a lot.
Yes. March, I'm going to Dallas, going to Washington,
D .C. In April, I'm going to Santa Barbara and
Sarasota, Florida. And the next season will come
out later. So I cannot wait to share with all
of you. And you'll be performing Ligeti Etus
in those programs and then some of the commissioned
pieces as well? The Ligeti, yes. Commissioned
pieces, not yet. Hopefully more next year. Wonderful.
So for our listeners, if you would like to learn
more about Han's work and then would like to
be in touch with him, please visit hanchenpiano
.com. That's your website, right? Yes. Is there
anything else you want to talk about before we
go to the rapid fire questions? Rapid fire question.
Okay. Yeah. Let's talk about, go listen to Florence
Price. Yes, that's right. So all the recordings,
so we talked about. Not only the Gere Etius,
but also the Florence Price's piano concertos.
Thomas Addis and Rubinstein. They are all available
on all streaming platforms. That's right. And
I will list the links in the show notes as well.
Great. So before I let you go. We have this tradition,
the piano part of rapid fire questions. I'm nervous
now. Oh, yes. We take this segment very seriously.
You've shared your story expertise today, but
these questions carefully curated by our team,
which is me, will give our listeners a glimpse
into who you truly are. So let's do this. I want
you to answer them, each question, as short a
response as possible. No explanation is necessary.
Okay. All right. Number one. What is your comfort
food? Donut. Donut. Oh, that's a first one. That's
cute. How do you like your coffee in the morning?
Black. Cats or dogs? Both. Both. Yes. Sunrise
or sunset? Sunset. I cannot get up. Thanks for
getting up this morning. Summer or winter? Winter.
Winter. Even despite of that frigid cold temperature
we had? Stay home. Practice. Yes, that's right.
Now, next level. What skill have you always wanted
to learn but haven't had a chance to? Wake up
early. Wake up early? Okay. What is your word
or words to live by? Honesty. Good one. Favorite
venue you have ever performed in or maybe dream
venue? That's tough. National Sawdust. That's
where I did my Infinite Staircase. Perfect. What
is the most important quality you look for in
other people? Honesty. Honesty. Name a composer
you wish more people knew about. Florence Price.
Oh, yes. Amen. All right, two more. Name one
piece in your current playlist. Doesn't matter.
It doesn't have to be, you know. classical or
contemporary? Can be pop? I usually listen on
YouTube. I just listened to the Choral Fantasy
by Beethoven. Oh, wow. Beautiful. I need to listen
to that. Exactly. That's a piece we all need
to listen to. Fantastic. Great. Now, last one.
Fill in the blank. Music is blank. Music is life.
Beautiful. Han, thank you so much for joining
us today. Thank you for having me. Oh, it was
fun. You're sharing your artistry, vision, and
thoughtful reflections. To our listeners, be
sure to check out his Grammy -nominated recording
of Florence Price, Piano Concerto in One Movement,
as well as his mesmerizing... daring recording
of the complete The Get It Choose, and as well
as so many other recordings, both available on
all major streaming platforms. You can also find
more information about his recordings and upcoming
projects on his website at unchainpiano .com
and across his social media platforms. You are
active on social media, right? Yeah. Great. You
can find all the links in the show notes. Thanks
for spending this time with us, for our listeners.
If this conversation resonated with you, please
like this episode and subscribe to the channel.
I'd also love to hear your thoughts. Leave a
comment, share this episode on social media,
and tag us at The Piano Pop. We'll see you for
the next episode of The Piano Pop. Thank you,
Han. Thank you so much. Thank you.