WEBVTT

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Hey everyone, it's Yukimi. Welcome back to another

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episode of The Piano Pod. This season we are

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exploring creativity and connection, highlighting

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artists who are reshaping what it means to perform,

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create, teach, and inspire people through piano

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across the modern era. Today's guest, Sean Hickey,

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embodies that spirit as a true visionary of the

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21st century music landscape. A celebrated composer

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whose work spans solo, chamber, and orchestral

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projects, Sean also brings a unique perspective

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from deep within the industry, currently serving

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as the CEO of Pentatone Music. His musical journey

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began with the electric guitar in Detroit, and

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that early curiosity has evolved into a career

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dedicated to exploring the profound intersections

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of humanity, memory, and scale. In this episode,

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we dive deep into his most ambitious work for

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solo piano to date, Sapiens, A Brief History

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of Humankind. Inspired by the landmark book by

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Yuval Noah Harari, this 50 -minute cycle acts

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as a meta -instrument observing 70 ,000 years

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of human evolution from the first primeval breath

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to the complex global systems of our modern world.

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It is a work that challenges us to look through

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the lens of history to find meaning in our own

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period of rapid acceleration and change. Before

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we dive in, a huge thank you to our listeners

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for supporting the PianoPod. Your engagement,

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whether through sharing episodes, leaving a review,

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or simply listening, helps sustain this growing

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community of artists and thinkers who are redefining

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what it means to make music today. If you're

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watching on YouTube, please take a moment to

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like and share and subscribe to our YouTube channel

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and hit that notification bell. If you're tuning

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in from Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other

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platform, please follow the show and leave a

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rating or review. It only takes a second, but

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it's the best way to help others find these conversations.

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Here is Season 6 of The Piano Pod with composer

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and industry leader, Sean Hickey. Please enjoy

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the show. You are listening to The Piano Pod,

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where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry

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about how they are bringing the piano into the

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future and thriving in a complex, ever -evolving

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world. Sean, welcome to The Piano Pod. It's really

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such a pleasure to have you today here. Thanks

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for having me. Great to be here. Thank you so

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much for being here. So before we dive in, Where

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are you joining us from today? I am joining you

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from New York, New York, particularly and specifically

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Brooklyn, from home. Oh, yeah, I'm in Brooklyn,

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too. Where in Brooklyn? Bay Ridge, right on the

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water at the entrance to the harbor. Oh, nice.

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You've lived there for a while? Well, I've lived

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in Brooklyn since, what, 99. But we've lived

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in this place, my family and I, since 2019. yeah

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oh okay great and i live in williamsburg so i

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mean we're a little far but still within the

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same yeah uh borough so cool yeah great and i'm

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so happy because uh we met once uh actually it

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was a few months ago at the pianopod live event

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you came and i was so so happy to meet you thank

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you so much for being there it was a very special

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day It was for me, too. I thought it was really

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great and really stimulating conversation. And

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I was invited there by my dear friend, Eleanor

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Byneman, who was part of your discussion, who

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you've spoken with, I think, more than on one

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occasion for the PianoPod. And she's a dear,

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dear friend and supporter of my work. Don't hold

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it against her, my former piano teacher when

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I first moved here. Oh, no way. I didn't realize

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the connection, really. She's a fantastic pianist.

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She is. I, however, am not, and I am her worst

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student, but I got a lot out of it, I have to

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say, and a great friendship with her and her

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family. Wonderful. Yeah, she told me about the,

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I think, a week before my event, so that was

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October 4th, so a week before that year. actually

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had a presentation, a concert at the same venue.

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Yeah, at the same venue. So my piece, a very

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epic piano piece called Sapiens, A Brief History

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of Humankind, which actually was partially developed

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and workshopped in that exact same room. This

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is, of course, at the Manus School of Music at

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the New School in New York City. We concluded

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a small U .S. tour of the piece there at Manus

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when I saw you in whatever that was, September,

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I believe. And yeah, with a brilliant pianist

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that I've had the great pleasure of working with

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and who has recorded the piece. And his name

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is Vladimir Rumyantsev, and he's a true force

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of nature. Wonderful. Yeah. And then Eleanor

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told me how fantastic the event was. And then

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so the following week when I had my event, I

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was like so surprised to see you. And then afterward,

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I think we ended up at the same restaurant together

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in the seating. That was fun. Great. So it feels

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especially fitting that we're here today focusing

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on a conversation on sapiens. As you mentioned,

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a brief history of humankind, a work that reflects

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on humanity, memory and the shared spaces we

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move through, particularly in the light of the

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profound shifts and uncertainties that many of

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us. are experiencing right now. But before that,

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let's start with this question. So you've been

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described as one of the most successful American

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composers of our generation and a deeply influential

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leader within the industry when it comes to arts

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administration. So looking back, what is the

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core artistic impulse or mission that has quietly

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tied together your diverse body of work? over

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the years well that's a big one and uh one to

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really kind of uh grapple with i think overall

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i mean when i started uh so i started in music

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at age 12 so it wasn't exactly a young prodigy

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or whatever but i my parents uh essentially said

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you're gonna do something this summer other than

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sit around and and do nothing you're gonna um

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do something constructive and in my case we rented

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an electric guitar and within minutes of doing

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so i had already written my first song not nothing

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about it but uh and certainly not memorable but

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um from that point i've just always been been

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obsessed with you know creating music and just

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you know it's just been an impulse to me that

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i can't quite fathom living without And certainly

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over the years, I've composed a lot of music.

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I think I've composed about 100 different works

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in a variety of genres, nearly everything except

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for opera, which I'm not personally particularly

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interested in. But over time, and certainly in

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the last, oh, I don't know, say nine or 10 years,

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my work has really been focused on a lot of issues

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of... well, just sort of societal things, changes,

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the systems that we have in the world and in

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our country specifically. And I've been particularly,

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I suppose, in the last 10, 15 years, moved or

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influenced by a lot of things that I have seen

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or heard or read so that my work over time has

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been, at least in its framework or in its initial

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inspiration, inspired by and guided by some bigger

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and broader concepts and that wasn't something

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that was happening when i was say in my 20s i

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wanted to write a string quartet i called it

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string quartet and that was it and then i wrote

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another one so that was number two um you know

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thing things have changed and i've developed

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over over the years yeah then of course this

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magnificent piano music sapiens a brief history

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of humankind that also tied together what you

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just mentioned so For listeners encountering

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this piece of music for the first time, what

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is Sapiens? And what kind of response were you

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hoping to offer through music? Well, to me, this

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was among most of the pieces I've written, like

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a real, real artistic imperative for me. In,

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I believe, early 2018, I read the book of the

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same name by Yuval Noah Harari. Sapiens, A Brief

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History of Humankind. And it's the first of the,

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I think, six published books that he has done

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and hundreds and hundreds of articles. He is

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a great historian and thinker and not necessarily

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a sociologist, but certainly a very, very brilliant

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writer and someone that I at least can draw a

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lot from in nearly everything that he's written.

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And Sapiens, when I read the book, was one of

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those books, maybe the only book I've ever read,

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that after reading the first page, I could hardly

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turn it because I was just incredibly inspired

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by and moved by this incredibly large and wide

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scope of things. And, you know, in the last 25

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to 30 years, in sort of the broad things of nonfiction,

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There's been a lot of micro histories like, you

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know, salt, the spice that changed the world

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and cod and, you know, various things having

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to do with how certain things, you know, have

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really influenced our current living. And then

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there's the mega, mega macro histories and macro

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looks at things. And Sapiens is probably the

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best known example of such a book and among the

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first. And for me, I read it and. i had no idea

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what was to come next but i just felt that it

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was imperative for me that in some way i was

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going to fashion a piece of music out of the

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inspiration that i found in this book yeah i

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i read it too i think i read it during 2020 when

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i was home and then finally being able to read

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such a you know massive amount of uh content

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in in uh in a really focused time and it was

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Yeah, as you mentioned it, like first few pages,

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I had to reread over and over again, because

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it was such a shocking thing to read. It really

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is. Yeah, yeah. It's such a big and broad scope

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of things. And, you know, I just, I think it's

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amazing how this utterly brilliant individual

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and it's not the only book that he's written.

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His other books are almost no less. No less shocking

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to me and impressive, but this was the first

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of them and therefore it really stays with me.

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Yeah, I mean, I felt the same way and then read

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it again the second time and as the pandemic

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bore down on our city and our world. And I really

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kind of redoubled my efforts at the end of 2020

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to finish a piece that I had started a couple

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of years earlier. But what stood out for you

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to me? One thing is, as you said, it's the scope

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of the book. You know, how basically he writes

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70 ,000 years of human history or longer into

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this book. Here I am, you know, reading from

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my apartment in Brooklyn in 2020 by myself. I

00:13:06.809 --> 00:13:10.009
just felt overwhelmed, too, about the history.

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But also, at the same time, I felt... at the

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end of the book? I don't know. It's a strange

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thing, but was also be able to be hopeful about

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humankind. I don't know. How did you experience

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this book? I mean, in the end, that's kind of

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the way I came away with it. I mean, I know that

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some people have, you know, maybe read the book

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or read his work in general and felt that, oh,

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we're doomed as a species. And it might be easy

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to say that for, you know, ecological collapse.

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the world that we've inherited now where everybody's

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in their you know fixed camps and pointing knives

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at each other and all that um but there is um

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there's quite a bit in the book that i find quite

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hopeful in that um i find it comforting and i

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don't know that everyone agrees with me to understand

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how small and insignificant that i am as a cog

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in the wheel of human history very small one

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uh and um Yeah, I think that, you know, many

00:14:10.730 --> 00:14:12.669
of the concepts that are explored in the book,

00:14:12.769 --> 00:14:17.190
some of which I helped or tried to use as inspiration

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for my piece later, allowed me to, you know,

00:14:22.750 --> 00:14:27.490
feel very confident. And I think, as you say,

00:14:27.590 --> 00:14:32.370
a little more hopeful in a time of great uncertainty.

00:14:32.649 --> 00:14:34.730
I'm referring to the pandemic, I'm referring

00:14:34.730 --> 00:14:38.399
to... our modern world and all of what was coming

00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:41.139
unraveled in those few years and still is in

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my mind, that, you know, understanding the fact

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that, you know, throughout all of human history,

00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:49.480
all of what we're talking about, the span of

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a single lifetime, mine or yours, is, I mean,

00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:55.080
frankly, utterly insignificant in the march of

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time. And then compare that to geologic time.

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I mean, human history is 70, 80 ,000 years, but

00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:03.519
geologic time goes back seven to eight and nine

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million years. um and uh all of the species and

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that's kind of how the book you know starts to

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establish itself that didn't survive some have

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some haven't but why did we i think it's fascinating

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why why and how did we develop these brains that

00:15:22.129 --> 00:15:24.190
allow this conversation to happen i think is

00:15:24.190 --> 00:15:28.330
uh i think it's quite fascinating yeah and then

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he says that it's the uh Because of the, of course,

00:15:32.710 --> 00:15:35.590
cognitive revolution, he says, and being able

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to understand the sort of abstract concept, whether

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that is being able to dream. I don't quite remember.

00:15:45.029 --> 00:15:47.850
I have to revisit. But do you remember? Yeah.

00:15:47.950 --> 00:15:50.250
So the cognitive revolution is, you know, the

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development of the minds to the minds of any

00:15:53.830 --> 00:15:57.450
sentient living human being to understand. uh

00:15:57.450 --> 00:15:59.429
some of the things that we understand so right

00:15:59.429 --> 00:16:01.350
now we're speaking in a shared language of english

00:16:01.350 --> 00:16:04.149
that when i speak it you understand me and you

00:16:04.149 --> 00:16:06.710
speak it i i understand you or hopefully most

00:16:06.710 --> 00:16:09.970
of it in most in both cases um and these are

00:16:09.970 --> 00:16:11.870
just these are symbols these are things that

00:16:11.870 --> 00:16:15.009
we've adopted as a as a culture as part of our

00:16:15.009 --> 00:16:17.149
cognition and they're developed widely developed

00:16:17.149 --> 00:16:19.169
brains that maybe the animal world doesn't have

00:16:19.169 --> 00:16:21.269
but you know one of the things that the animal

00:16:21.269 --> 00:16:24.580
world does have to some degree is that i know

00:16:24.580 --> 00:16:26.539
if i'm walking down the street with you and you

00:16:26.539 --> 00:16:28.679
stand behind a tree i know that you're still

00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:33.200
there even if i can't see you and um you know

00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:35.379
that was one of the kind of breakthroughs in

00:16:35.379 --> 00:16:37.759
the cognitive revolution that the animal world

00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:41.899
for the most part has understood and recognized

00:16:41.899 --> 00:16:45.860
that uh just because i can't see or hear a particular

00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:50.360
thing or a person or a threat doesn't mean that

00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:53.559
that person or thing or threat is gone um so

00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:57.620
um that that's you know one small example of

00:16:57.620 --> 00:17:00.019
you know what a dog or cat might understand you're

00:17:00.019 --> 00:17:03.399
still present if you're standing behind behind

00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:07.980
a tree yeah so i need to revisit and reread again

00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:11.920
uh it's such a wonderful book so how many movements

00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:18.210
make up this cycle of your versions uh yeah so

00:17:18.210 --> 00:17:21.049
there are eight movements or eight sections um

00:17:21.049 --> 00:17:28.529
and i chose as um you know if if if you know

00:17:28.529 --> 00:17:30.410
the book and you know that know it well it's

00:17:30.410 --> 00:17:33.890
not as if i uh titled my sections after the chapters

00:17:33.890 --> 00:17:38.690
i and instead took what i think are some broad

00:17:38.690 --> 00:17:42.009
concepts and maybe kind of added one in the in

00:17:42.009 --> 00:17:43.630
the end of the last section called commonwealth

00:17:43.630 --> 00:17:48.430
that is mostly my own uh to um some of the teachings

00:17:48.430 --> 00:17:51.470
and understandings of the book and just to talk

00:17:51.470 --> 00:17:54.390
about one of them the first time is a section

00:17:54.390 --> 00:17:57.789
called that i call prehistory which you know

00:17:57.789 --> 00:17:59.869
is just one of those fascinating words that to

00:17:59.869 --> 00:18:01.650
me is like prehistory what what happened but

00:18:01.650 --> 00:18:03.549
it's like kind of like post -modernism it makes

00:18:03.549 --> 00:18:06.390
no sense at all uh but we throw it around a lot

00:18:06.390 --> 00:18:09.250
and it sounds good and generally we understand

00:18:09.250 --> 00:18:11.609
what it's supposed to mean prehistory really

00:18:11.609 --> 00:18:16.750
uh you know attempts to determine what there's

00:18:16.750 --> 00:18:19.269
a word used to define what happened before humans,

00:18:19.490 --> 00:18:23.029
before our species, Homo sapiens, really developed

00:18:23.029 --> 00:18:28.849
into the individuals that we are now. And I should

00:18:28.849 --> 00:18:30.849
mention at first, you know, when I was inspired

00:18:30.849 --> 00:18:33.910
by the book, I didn't know what, didn't have

00:18:33.910 --> 00:18:36.329
any idea how to shape the piece, didn't even

00:18:36.329 --> 00:18:40.930
understand or recognize who it was going to be

00:18:40.930 --> 00:18:43.650
for. It was not a commission. I'm fortunate that

00:18:43.650 --> 00:18:46.650
most of my work in the last 10 or 15 years is

00:18:46.650 --> 00:18:49.869
on commission so um this was not a case it was

00:18:49.869 --> 00:18:52.509
just something that i wanted to do my additional

00:18:52.509 --> 00:18:55.569
uh initial idea was to write for ensemble perhaps

00:18:55.569 --> 00:19:00.430
orchestra um and then you know as my id my broad

00:19:00.430 --> 00:19:03.289
kind of drafting and ideas started to take shape

00:19:03.289 --> 00:19:07.410
um i realized that this was probably not a work

00:19:07.410 --> 00:19:11.230
for orchestra and i had a huge amount of sketches

00:19:11.230 --> 00:19:13.630
of the piece which are now archived at a great

00:19:13.630 --> 00:19:17.740
um A great other place in Brooklyn called Mind

00:19:17.740 --> 00:19:21.539
to Music, the Mind to Music Project, has some

00:19:21.539 --> 00:19:23.759
of my very initial sketches of sapiens on there,

00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:26.619
which, because I sat at the piano and drafted

00:19:26.619 --> 00:19:29.299
them, in the end it really kind of morphed into

00:19:29.299 --> 00:19:32.259
a work that I felt was going to be a very substantial

00:19:32.259 --> 00:19:36.140
work for piano. And I find the piano very intimidating.

00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:39.539
I find it also comforting to sit at and write

00:19:39.539 --> 00:19:43.279
at, which I've been doing for years. As I said,

00:19:43.299 --> 00:19:46.460
I think at the start, I'm not a pianist per se.

00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:50.119
I really can only perform one piece of music

00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:56.019
I've ever written in my life. But in the end,

00:19:56.019 --> 00:20:01.140
that seemed to be the sort of suitable instrument

00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:04.799
for me. And when I really kind of embraced the

00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:09.740
idea of the piano as this sort of meta instrument,

00:20:11.500 --> 00:20:14.500
We know the incredible expressive range that

00:20:14.500 --> 00:20:16.940
comes from this instrument, the modern instrument.

00:20:17.059 --> 00:20:19.880
We know the fact that the modern instrument developed

00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.740
out of other things that might have been a little

00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:26.539
less expressive and less complex than we have

00:20:26.539 --> 00:20:30.700
today. And yet it has largely stayed fixed for

00:20:30.700 --> 00:20:36.079
the last 200 years, just about. And I imagine

00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:38.539
the piano as sort of a voyeur or witness to history

00:20:38.539 --> 00:20:42.529
at the birth of music. So my particular piece

00:20:42.529 --> 00:20:44.890
that starts Sapiens is called Prehistory as a

00:20:44.890 --> 00:20:50.910
subtitle. And it consists of a very strange amount

00:20:50.910 --> 00:20:52.829
of music that doesn't really sound music. In

00:20:52.829 --> 00:20:55.210
fact, the very first instruction in the piece

00:20:55.210 --> 00:20:58.809
is for the pianist to breathe into the instrument,

00:20:58.990 --> 00:21:01.490
you know, a single exhalation, single breath.

00:21:02.710 --> 00:21:05.369
And it doesn't really start on the piano, it

00:21:05.369 --> 00:21:10.809
starts at the piano. And from there, music. in

00:21:10.809 --> 00:21:14.250
a series of C's really kind of grows out of that

00:21:14.250 --> 00:21:17.910
particular impulse as if someone had, you know,

00:21:17.910 --> 00:21:22.089
been launched into this strange thing and encountered

00:21:22.089 --> 00:21:24.430
it for the first time. And what would they make

00:21:24.430 --> 00:21:27.230
of it? That's really the piece grows out of that,

00:21:27.269 --> 00:21:32.329
those first impulses. Wow. Yes. I, I've been

00:21:32.329 --> 00:21:34.970
listening to this whole series over and over

00:21:34.970 --> 00:21:39.059
and then, yeah, I, First I started, I heard the

00:21:39.059 --> 00:21:42.940
breath. And also, you mentioned that I realized

00:21:42.940 --> 00:21:47.279
there are a few pieces that are centered in the

00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:51.400
key of C major. So I thought, maybe, is there

00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:55.119
a message behind that? Yeah, I think maybe not

00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:59.720
a conscious one. So yes, it starts with a bunch

00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:02.460
of Cs, maybe not C major, but the pitch C, the

00:22:02.460 --> 00:22:07.430
note C, in various octaves. It ends... I think

00:22:07.430 --> 00:22:09.890
very hopefully in a particular section called

00:22:09.890 --> 00:22:14.289
Commonwealth that to me is among the most successful

00:22:14.289 --> 00:22:17.710
parts of it. And it's also fairly rooted in C

00:22:17.710 --> 00:22:21.769
as well. And there's also a work in the middle,

00:22:21.789 --> 00:22:27.730
a section in the middle called Mean Temperament.

00:22:28.190 --> 00:22:31.529
And Mean Temperament consists almost entirely

00:22:31.529 --> 00:22:34.130
of the note C in every one of its iterations

00:22:34.130 --> 00:22:37.799
on the piano. There are seven of them. And I

00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:42.319
really felt challenged to make a piece of music

00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:45.039
or a section of a piece of music that incorporates

00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:48.759
a single note only. It involves a huge amount

00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:52.279
of jumping around of hands because each of the

00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:54.660
octaves of that particular C only happened one

00:22:54.660 --> 00:23:00.900
at a time. And mean temperament, of course, is

00:23:00.900 --> 00:23:05.569
a bit of a double, I don't know, ironic. play

00:23:05.569 --> 00:23:08.490
on words, mean temperament, obviously referring

00:23:08.490 --> 00:23:11.690
to the pitch and the tuning of a modern instrument

00:23:11.690 --> 00:23:15.089
and modern music for Westerners anyway, and also

00:23:15.089 --> 00:23:20.589
maybe a comment on our nature as a species too.

00:23:21.430 --> 00:23:25.569
And yeah, that movement came together rather

00:23:25.569 --> 00:23:28.509
quickly, I have to say. Oh, wow. And I want to

00:23:28.509 --> 00:23:30.829
go through each one of them, but when you first

00:23:30.829 --> 00:23:35.589
read the book, you thought, wow. I want to write

00:23:35.589 --> 00:23:38.670
a music about this. I mean, did the inspiration

00:23:38.670 --> 00:23:41.750
came like immediately? The inspiration to write

00:23:41.750 --> 00:23:43.230
the piece came immediately. What I was going

00:23:43.230 --> 00:23:47.089
to do with it did not. I should mention that

00:23:47.089 --> 00:23:49.849
everything that you hear in the piece, I did

00:23:49.849 --> 00:23:51.990
write sequentially. It seems like I started with

00:23:51.990 --> 00:23:54.029
section seven or whatever and went back to section

00:23:54.029 --> 00:23:58.650
two. So it was sequential. I went and read the

00:23:58.650 --> 00:24:00.730
book. I reread the book. I read the graphic novel,

00:24:00.910 --> 00:24:03.930
which is fascinating too. Sapiens, which is also

00:24:03.930 --> 00:24:06.279
graphic. graphic novel and quite interesting.

00:24:06.579 --> 00:24:09.400
Oh, there is a graphic novel? There sure is.

00:24:09.500 --> 00:24:13.640
Yeah. And it's really, really quite good. Yeah.

00:24:13.779 --> 00:24:17.420
And so the idea to write the piece was quick,

00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:21.480
but how it was going to take shape was not. But

00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:23.619
I really wanted to focus on, you know, the sort

00:24:23.619 --> 00:24:26.519
of key principles that I took some inspiration

00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:29.460
from when reading the book. And that really kind

00:24:29.460 --> 00:24:31.319
of gave me the sort of broad architecture to

00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:35.829
start putting things in place. So you mentioned

00:24:35.829 --> 00:24:39.690
that it started with the prehistory. Then the

00:24:39.690 --> 00:24:44.210
next piece is the Lascaux, right? Yeah. So the

00:24:44.210 --> 00:24:47.869
inspiration for Lascaux is, you know, though

00:24:47.869 --> 00:24:50.930
it's been eclipsed by some other findings in

00:24:50.930 --> 00:24:54.410
the last several years, Lascaux refers to the

00:24:54.410 --> 00:25:00.069
cave in central France where some of the first

00:25:00.069 --> 00:25:03.640
instances of representative art were found. painted

00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:05.960
on the cave walls. They were some 40 ,000 years

00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:10.779
old, 45 ,000, I believe. And it was a major breakthrough

00:25:10.779 --> 00:25:15.960
in that, you know, the thing that I do and that

00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:18.740
we do as artists, which is to, you know, is to

00:25:18.740 --> 00:25:21.579
explore and act upon this impulse to do something.

00:25:22.269 --> 00:25:24.609
That doesn't necessarily better the world. It

00:25:24.609 --> 00:25:27.529
doesn't keep a structure intact or keep you warm

00:25:27.529 --> 00:25:29.970
or feed you. The things that really directly

00:25:29.970 --> 00:25:32.109
relate to survival, these are things that an

00:25:32.109 --> 00:25:35.869
artist would do because he or she feels a very

00:25:35.869 --> 00:25:39.910
strong need. And the Lescaut cave drawings are

00:25:39.910 --> 00:25:43.029
as mysterious today as they were when they were

00:25:43.029 --> 00:25:46.910
discovered, which is to say probably a mystery

00:25:46.910 --> 00:25:50.750
for the intervening 45 ,000 years. that depicts

00:25:50.750 --> 00:25:54.730
buffalo hunts, that depicts men and women, weaponry,

00:25:54.730 --> 00:25:59.069
various things having to do with life in that

00:25:59.069 --> 00:26:34.140
part of the world at that time. I wanted to use

00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:37.119
it because I took some inspiration from that,

00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:40.839
which, of course, is talked about in the book

00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:49.259
as a particular piece. And that particular section

00:26:49.259 --> 00:26:52.640
of it is, I think, clouded in a lot of ambiguity,

00:26:52.980 --> 00:26:56.759
a lot of mystery. It's a little more, you can,

00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.140
I think, sense the piece in terms of sort of

00:27:00.140 --> 00:27:03.420
a metric and rhythmical structure. kind of coming

00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:05.480
together a little better in that section than

00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:08.960
it is in prehistory so you're seeing the sort

00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:12.319
of evolution of a piece start to take shape just

00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:15.279
as humankind said i am i at this moment i am

00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.700
going to create art and i'm doing it for reasons

00:27:18.700 --> 00:27:23.420
that are unknown to history and it's quite impressionistic

00:27:23.420 --> 00:27:27.200
in style right yeah yeah i think so too i mean

00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:30.119
the pigments of the walls and and i for the record

00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:32.500
i've never been to lisco um i've only read about

00:27:32.500 --> 00:27:35.200
it and seen it uh and on the page or whatever

00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:38.940
but uh you know the pigments of it uh i think

00:27:38.940 --> 00:27:42.640
are are very evocative and they almost look impressionistic

00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:46.339
for me And the fact that something is so, I mean,

00:27:46.359 --> 00:27:48.700
I have had the benefit of seeing some, you know,

00:27:48.700 --> 00:27:53.299
really interesting Navajo and Ute art and that

00:27:53.299 --> 00:27:56.000
in the desert southwest of the United States.

00:27:56.500 --> 00:27:59.259
This is very, very different. Much of that art

00:27:59.259 --> 00:28:01.799
is no more than a thousand years old. This is

00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:06.240
40, 40, 45 times more than that. I mean, it's

00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:10.539
quite, quite ancient. Yeah. Yeah. And then. Moving

00:28:10.539 --> 00:28:13.640
on to the third piece, Fertile Crescent. And

00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:19.700
I thought, wow, this was quite contrast to Lascaux,

00:28:19.819 --> 00:28:24.000
quite fugue -like, you know? Lots of conversations

00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.859
happening. Yeah. So Fertile Crescent is probably

00:28:27.859 --> 00:28:31.980
the biggest and densest piece. It's the longest

00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:35.880
in the work, longest section in the work. Fertile

00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:39.160
Crescent, of course, is inspired by... something

00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:40.680
else that Harari talks about in the book, and

00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:43.380
that's the agricultural revolution. And the agricultural

00:28:43.380 --> 00:28:45.440
revolution, like the cognitive one beforehand,

00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:49.279
which is about 12 ,000 years old, allowed for

00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:51.880
something that we very much take for granted

00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:54.680
now, is the ability for human beings to gather

00:28:54.680 --> 00:28:58.319
together in groups and cooperate in some way

00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:00.519
or another. So whether you live in New York City

00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:04.579
or a small town, or you work in a factory, or

00:29:04.579 --> 00:29:09.380
you work... In any endeavor, we often usually

00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:14.960
need the help of others to survive and to create.

00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:20.720
And that was not necessarily the methodology

00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:22.920
for most of human history. For most of human

00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:26.960
history, Homo sapiens was solitary. They traveled

00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:29.619
in very small groups, perhaps as a family, perhaps

00:29:29.619 --> 00:29:33.539
as a couple of families. They hunted game for

00:29:33.539 --> 00:29:37.279
survival. They found the appropriate foods to

00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:40.359
eat that would allow them to thrive and give

00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:42.059
them the appropriate amount of vitamins, protein,

00:29:42.339 --> 00:29:46.119
and they kept on the move. They did not necessarily

00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:49.799
have homes, per se. They kept on the move, often

00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:53.859
across very wide geographic regions. The Fertile

00:29:53.859 --> 00:29:57.500
Crescent, of course, refers to the band of something

00:29:57.500 --> 00:29:59.559
that happened, which is the plantation of crops

00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:03.819
in a rough stretch from western Turkey. going

00:30:03.819 --> 00:30:06.279
to the east and around into the Sinai Peninsula

00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:09.519
in northern Egypt, modern Egypt, and encompasses

00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:13.460
many of the countries in the Middle East. Interestingly,

00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:15.779
many countries that we would very much consider

00:30:15.779 --> 00:30:20.079
to be dry and desert -like now were, at that

00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:25.140
time, fertile enough to support the planting

00:30:25.140 --> 00:30:29.119
of crops, and many of the first grains and cereals

00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:32.119
were planted in that particular region. And when

00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:33.740
they were planted in that particular region,

00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:36.640
it required the ingenuity and gathering of people

00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:40.680
together in smaller groups. And it's no surprise

00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:44.220
that the first established cities happened in

00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:46.579
some of the river valleys of the area, namely

00:30:46.579 --> 00:30:49.319
the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in modern -day

00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:53.740
Iraq. And that allowed for people to settle together.

00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:55.859
And one of the other interesting things that

00:30:55.859 --> 00:30:57.799
allowed people to settle together was the fact

00:30:57.799 --> 00:31:00.859
that when they did settle together, longevity

00:31:00.859 --> 00:31:05.299
improves because people were and would over time

00:31:05.299 --> 00:31:08.680
develop immunities to one another and develop

00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:11.000
immunities to the livestock around them at a

00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.660
time when our first livestock where people were

00:31:13.660 --> 00:31:18.910
herding animals into small and living with those

00:31:18.910 --> 00:31:21.190
animals or living in close proximity to them.

00:31:21.390 --> 00:31:24.809
And this incredible reason that it's not just

00:31:24.809 --> 00:31:26.829
called agriculture and that it's an agricultural

00:31:26.829 --> 00:31:30.769
revolution is that revolution almost in a matter

00:31:30.769 --> 00:31:32.630
of a handful of generations, we don't really

00:31:32.630 --> 00:31:37.029
know who, almost doubled life expectancy, maybe

00:31:37.029 --> 00:31:41.650
up to age 30 to 35 for a lot of people. And so

00:31:41.650 --> 00:31:45.910
all of that is a background of my... piece called

00:31:45.910 --> 00:31:48.809
Fertile Crescent and in it I have essentially

00:31:48.809 --> 00:31:53.450
two crescent -like shapes. One is the shape of

00:31:53.450 --> 00:31:58.170
a particular figure in the right hand that really

00:31:58.170 --> 00:32:00.890
kind of opens the piece that goes up in a crescent

00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:03.730
shape and comes down lower in pitch and volume

00:32:03.730 --> 00:32:45.470
and is presented several times. The bigger one

00:32:45.470 --> 00:32:51.309
is the midsection of the piece, which starts

00:32:51.309 --> 00:32:54.769
with a very low pedal and the left hand and a

00:32:54.769 --> 00:32:58.529
series of very dense and chromatic chords, almost

00:32:58.529 --> 00:33:03.009
hard to really discern the pitch. That entire

00:33:03.009 --> 00:33:06.869
section, chord, chord, chord, chord, essentially

00:33:06.869 --> 00:33:10.309
rises to the upper limits of the piano, the upper

00:33:10.309 --> 00:33:12.910
limits of the volume that the piano is capable

00:33:12.910 --> 00:33:18.160
of producing. And each measure going up to that

00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:20.640
particular point, a half a beat is slashed off

00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:23.680
of each of them to the point where when you get

00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:25.440
to the end, there's no more beats to slash off.

00:33:25.539 --> 00:33:29.099
It's essentially there's no more notes. And then

00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:31.859
at that point, everything turns around backwards

00:33:31.859 --> 00:33:34.900
and a retrograde inversion mirror image of itself.

00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:40.579
That exact same section is played backwards and

00:33:40.579 --> 00:33:45.140
upside down. And that is the broad. fertile crescent

00:33:45.140 --> 00:33:49.259
of that whole particular movement and it's quite

00:33:49.259 --> 00:33:52.779
a challenging thing to play and I have to say

00:33:52.779 --> 00:34:15.469
maybe a concept to understand too. to say that

00:34:15.469 --> 00:34:17.789
that particular movement probably took me as

00:34:17.789 --> 00:34:20.510
long to compose as the entirety of the rest of

00:34:20.510 --> 00:34:23.949
the piece oh really yeah because i had the idea

00:34:23.949 --> 00:34:27.090
in my head and i have to say i'm not uh such

00:34:27.090 --> 00:34:30.130
a dogmatic uh composer that i play around with

00:34:30.130 --> 00:34:33.550
um uh particular theories or whatever i'm not

00:34:33.550 --> 00:34:37.250
a serialist i'm not a uh you know not i don't

00:34:37.250 --> 00:34:39.050
consider myself a serialist or minimalist or

00:34:39.050 --> 00:34:40.590
any of those things i write the music that i

00:34:40.590 --> 00:34:44.630
wish to write and not not be constrained by any

00:34:44.630 --> 00:34:46.929
of the isms that are out there but i had the

00:34:46.929 --> 00:34:49.769
idea of you know this series of chords and i

00:34:49.769 --> 00:34:51.409
could understand the pitches and how they would

00:34:51.409 --> 00:34:55.750
very very very slowly and imperceptibly imperceptibly

00:34:55.750 --> 00:35:00.710
uh modulate to higher pitch levels and a half

00:35:00.710 --> 00:35:03.489
a beat lopped off of each measure until you ran

00:35:03.489 --> 00:35:05.949
out of room in which case everything turned around

00:35:05.949 --> 00:35:07.869
and flipped and that was just a very big and

00:35:07.869 --> 00:35:11.250
broad crescent that uh probably took me a couple

00:35:11.250 --> 00:35:13.130
of months to uh more than a couple months to

00:35:13.130 --> 00:35:19.750
compose Then followed by Jericho, which is the

00:35:19.750 --> 00:35:26.769
name of the city. Also, it's a biblical city,

00:35:26.949 --> 00:35:31.969
right? It sure is. Yeah. So Jericho is, you know,

00:35:31.989 --> 00:35:35.090
the biblical Jericho and the modern Jericho were,

00:35:35.230 --> 00:35:38.369
well, I should say the biblical Jericho is best

00:35:38.369 --> 00:35:43.170
known as a walled city. And why do we? Why do

00:35:43.170 --> 00:35:45.369
we at some point in our history put walls around

00:35:45.369 --> 00:35:48.050
our cities to protect ourselves from invaders

00:35:48.050 --> 00:35:53.170
and hostile forces? But for me, Jericho, and

00:35:53.170 --> 00:35:55.309
maybe this departs from the book a little bit,

00:35:55.409 --> 00:35:58.869
is symbolic of the fact that, you know, one of

00:35:58.869 --> 00:36:00.989
the greatest and most diabolical human inventions

00:36:00.989 --> 00:36:06.159
is the wall. and obviously it provides us comfort.

00:36:06.260 --> 00:36:08.619
I'm surrounded by them now. It sounds like you

00:36:08.619 --> 00:36:12.559
are too. It keeps us free and separated from

00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:15.619
our neighbors. It allows for privacy. It allows

00:36:15.619 --> 00:36:19.900
for warmth and comfort and safety, and that's

00:36:19.900 --> 00:36:24.119
critically important. But in history, no wall

00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:27.059
has ever stood for very long, and Jericho is

00:36:27.059 --> 00:36:29.980
probably the first example of such walls. I mean,

00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:33.219
the Horn of Gabriel. blew down the walls of jericho

00:36:33.219 --> 00:36:37.800
in the bible and um you know i i started to think

00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:39.679
of you know sort of the development of the wall

00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:42.380
um you know certainly the great wall of china

00:36:42.380 --> 00:36:46.059
and hadrian's wall in northern england neither

00:36:46.059 --> 00:36:48.000
of which stand completely as they were intended

00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:51.960
um and then the ridiculous thing of a border

00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:55.320
wall uh across any two countries which was very

00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:59.519
much in the news then and still now and i was

00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:02.789
inspired to write a piece that is very uh brittle

00:37:02.789 --> 00:37:08.769
granitic uh the pitches aren't uh you know as

00:37:08.769 --> 00:37:12.769
as specifically defined i was very much inspired

00:37:12.769 --> 00:37:15.309
by some of the composers who wrote in the city

00:37:15.309 --> 00:37:18.150
i'm i'm a big fan of alberto ginastera great

00:37:18.150 --> 00:37:21.190
argentine composer and his piano sonatas which

00:37:21.190 --> 00:37:25.789
i think are fascinating and incredible so more

00:37:25.789 --> 00:37:27.949
along the lines of ginastera bartok and a few

00:37:27.949 --> 00:37:31.579
others you know compose this particular work

00:37:31.579 --> 00:37:37.480
in homage to the wall as being imposing and ultimately

00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:41.000
futile. And, you know, there's a particular point

00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:43.900
in the piece where a very thick set of clusters,

00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:47.119
I think they're 10 note chords, are resounded

00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:49.280
13 times, exactly the amount of times that you

00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:52.800
hear in the Rite of Spring, in the third section

00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:56.400
of the Rite of Spring. And to me, that's sort

00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:58.900
of a sublimation of the walls that come crashing

00:37:58.900 --> 00:38:29.090
down. Get Jericho. fairly successful section

00:38:29.090 --> 00:38:33.230
of the piece overall and um it's a pretty big

00:38:33.230 --> 00:38:36.670
contrast to what is around it i have to say so

00:38:36.670 --> 00:38:42.409
um and and again it's uh i think if i uh just

00:38:42.409 --> 00:38:46.010
called this piece and gave it a anonymous title

00:38:46.010 --> 00:38:48.030
not anonymous title but a different title like

00:38:48.030 --> 00:38:50.190
piano sonata or something like that and that

00:38:50.190 --> 00:38:52.449
was plopped in the middle of it i think it would

00:38:52.449 --> 00:38:55.050
have a very different meaning Even if you didn't

00:38:55.050 --> 00:38:56.730
understand the book or didn't read the book or

00:38:56.730 --> 00:38:59.210
understand the concepts, the fact that it has

00:38:59.210 --> 00:39:02.329
a title, Jericho, and that has that particular

00:39:02.329 --> 00:39:04.429
sound world that's very different from what comes

00:39:04.429 --> 00:39:07.329
before or after, hopefully it's understood by

00:39:07.329 --> 00:39:12.750
listeners. Yeah, evident. Then that followed

00:39:12.750 --> 00:39:16.610
by mean temperament, which you mentioned. So

00:39:16.610 --> 00:39:21.530
maybe we should talk about double helix. This

00:39:21.530 --> 00:39:25.639
is one of my favorite. out of eight pieces so

00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:29.739
it's about dna yeah right so inspired by one

00:39:29.739 --> 00:39:32.659
of the great uh scientific discoveries of the

00:39:32.659 --> 00:39:37.440
20th century is is dna of course and um you know

00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:40.380
in the discovery of dna you know we have determined

00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:47.369
that uh quite a lot of human history and all

00:39:47.369 --> 00:39:50.030
of the suffering that we must endure is you know

00:39:50.030 --> 00:39:52.969
can be enshrined in these little microscopic

00:39:52.969 --> 00:39:55.530
strands i mean it's pretty revolutionary that

00:39:55.530 --> 00:39:59.230
this uh particular discovery uh has happened

00:39:59.230 --> 00:40:04.570
and i think in in many ways uh it it's so big

00:40:04.570 --> 00:40:08.070
and so unwieldy and so earth shattering that

00:40:08.070 --> 00:40:10.030
we might be able to look at it something like

00:40:10.030 --> 00:40:13.309
this and determine when we will die uh unless

00:40:13.309 --> 00:40:16.110
we're hit by a bus or some other uh the external

00:40:16.110 --> 00:40:19.630
factor uh is overshadowed by the fact that it's

00:40:19.630 --> 00:40:23.230
uh it's quite frightening in the way that ai

00:40:23.230 --> 00:40:26.710
is frightening today um in the 20th century i

00:40:26.710 --> 00:40:29.369
think the discovery of dna was frightening to

00:40:29.369 --> 00:40:31.929
the people of the 20th century and through to

00:40:31.929 --> 00:40:36.219
today i took it as kind of an inspiration uh

00:40:36.219 --> 00:40:39.039
of a particular piece it's a very big and mysterious

00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:43.840
piece the left hand in its entirety plays in

00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:45.960
one key b flat and the right hand plays in another

00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:52.260
key d um and this is a bit of a mind melt for

00:40:52.260 --> 00:40:56.800
the pianist i think and it was for me to write

00:40:57.579 --> 00:41:00.780
But once I established that, I mean, what I came

00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:03.480
up with in terms of combinations of sonorities

00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:06.900
and chords was to me very deeply satisfying.

00:41:43.239 --> 00:41:46.079
of the piece is truly two strands of melody.

00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:49.300
So that is a rare, as this is my music, very

00:41:49.300 --> 00:41:52.980
rare of a fugue. And the fugue in the right hand

00:41:52.980 --> 00:41:55.079
is in D and the fugue in the left hand is in

00:41:55.079 --> 00:41:58.340
B flat. And yet it does observe the rules of

00:41:58.340 --> 00:42:00.760
the fugue with the introduction of the subject,

00:42:01.019 --> 00:42:04.619
the transition up to the fifth, the stretto at

00:42:04.619 --> 00:42:07.000
the end, and then coming on some different music

00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:36.889
altogether. interweaving of the strands. I mean,

00:42:36.929 --> 00:42:39.630
the DNA molecule is a weave together a pair of

00:42:39.630 --> 00:42:42.969
strands that we, I think, know and understand

00:42:42.969 --> 00:42:44.730
in its shape. And that was kind of the shape

00:42:44.730 --> 00:42:48.110
that I was referring to in my particular movement.

00:42:48.550 --> 00:42:52.710
Wow. Engineering is involved into your composition,

00:42:52.989 --> 00:42:57.849
I guess. Yes. That's cool. Then that followed

00:42:57.849 --> 00:43:01.929
by conformation bias. So tell us about the piece.

00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:04.920
So perhaps a little bit also of a departure from

00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:09.019
the book, but maybe not so. But I think one of

00:43:09.019 --> 00:43:13.300
the most dangerous things of our time, certainly

00:43:13.300 --> 00:43:16.559
any time, but particularly so in a time when

00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:19.900
we are divided into our camps and determined

00:43:19.900 --> 00:43:23.699
that our opinions are right and perhaps everyone

00:43:23.699 --> 00:43:26.079
else's are wrong, except the people that agree

00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:28.980
with us, is the concept of confirmation bias.

00:43:29.789 --> 00:43:32.050
And the confirmation bias, of course, refers

00:43:32.050 --> 00:43:36.030
to the fact that, you know, if I believe something

00:43:36.030 --> 00:43:41.530
to be true, and I hear that something that confirms

00:43:41.530 --> 00:43:45.250
that what I already believe to be true is true,

00:43:45.449 --> 00:43:48.210
then therefore it must be, and there's no further

00:43:48.210 --> 00:43:51.250
proof needed. And this is a particular thing

00:43:51.250 --> 00:43:54.750
that Homo sapiens do, and likely the animal kingdom

00:43:54.750 --> 00:43:57.130
does not do, and the plant kingdom does not do.

00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:01.199
And I find it very, very dangerous because what

00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:04.780
is it done in our era of the Internet and social

00:44:04.780 --> 00:44:08.559
media? It's allowed us to only surround ourselves

00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:11.679
with people that really kind of confirm our biases,

00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:15.880
feed them on these algorithmic structures over

00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:19.440
time and further entrench us in our particular

00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:22.519
part of the world. And I find that incredibly

00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:26.000
dangerous. I deeply question social media for

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:29.329
a variety of reasons. uh something that i limit

00:44:29.329 --> 00:44:32.590
myself very very very strictly to for reasons

00:44:32.590 --> 00:44:36.349
of mental and physical health uh i don't i'm

00:44:36.349 --> 00:44:40.170
surely in the minority of that but um so confirmation

00:44:40.170 --> 00:44:44.690
bias uh as a you know musically starts with a

00:44:44.690 --> 00:44:47.429
particularly falling octave this is a g flat

00:44:47.429 --> 00:44:50.369
and f with a chord in the middle which i think

00:44:50.369 --> 00:44:55.590
is b flat and c And that particular falling thing,

00:44:55.670 --> 00:44:58.610
which is really kind of a sort of sort of falls.

00:45:00.570 --> 00:45:05.070
And there's a huge amount of activity in that

00:45:05.070 --> 00:45:08.210
work around that falling thing. That falling

00:45:08.210 --> 00:45:10.570
figure occurs in every single measure, every

00:45:10.570 --> 00:45:15.030
single one. And it's a very blank and mysterious

00:45:15.030 --> 00:45:43.860
and enigmatic kind of sonority there. And that

00:45:43.860 --> 00:45:45.920
piece was also composed rather quickly too. That

00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:48.469
section was composed rather quickly. But there's

00:45:48.469 --> 00:45:53.409
a huge amount of activity, a lot of noise, a

00:45:53.409 --> 00:45:56.090
lot of outside influence, a lot of things that

00:45:56.090 --> 00:45:58.510
essentially are telling the player, the pianist,

00:45:58.510 --> 00:46:01.409
the composer, the listener, no, consider this,

00:46:01.630 --> 00:46:05.530
look outside yourself, here's another perspective.

00:46:07.110 --> 00:46:10.550
And the player essentially ignores it the whole

00:46:10.550 --> 00:46:14.269
time, that falling thing, that tolling figure.

00:46:17.369 --> 00:46:19.510
which maybe I lifted from Ravel a little bit

00:46:19.510 --> 00:46:24.730
in one of his pieces, is on the present throughout

00:46:24.730 --> 00:46:28.949
the whole thing until the very last chord. It

00:46:28.949 --> 00:46:32.909
kind of almost resolves upwards in a sort of

00:46:32.909 --> 00:46:37.929
stasis, a sort of peace, equilibrium. Wow. Then

00:46:37.929 --> 00:46:41.570
ending with Commonwealth, and I like the title.

00:46:42.030 --> 00:46:46.199
And also it actually ends with like a... toward

00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:50.760
the end of probably 20, 30 seconds, it's silence,

00:46:51.019 --> 00:46:55.440
right? Or maybe something else is going on, but

00:46:55.440 --> 00:47:02.019
tell us. Yeah, so I'm glad you find the word

00:47:02.019 --> 00:47:06.019
Commonwealth resonates with you. I like it very

00:47:06.019 --> 00:47:09.420
much too. As I was deep in the piece and writing

00:47:09.420 --> 00:47:14.420
it, I really wanted to have... a title or a word

00:47:14.420 --> 00:47:17.079
or a series of words in the final section that

00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:20.719
i feel would maybe just personally represent

00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:23.639
what i would want for humanity what i do want

00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:27.900
for humanity and the the word commonwealth probably

00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:31.059
embodies that better than most words that i know

00:47:31.059 --> 00:47:35.739
uh and you know the the idea of a commons a public

00:47:35.739 --> 00:47:39.679
space which is the foundation upon um public

00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:42.039
parks and public spaces of any kind in a city

00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:45.699
uh where people can gather together and exchange

00:47:45.699 --> 00:47:49.840
ideas and argue and fight or or whatever uh is

00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:51.880
is very appealing to me that particular word

00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:55.719
common is used a lot in um you know certainly

00:47:55.719 --> 00:47:59.780
uh puritan england and uh new england where it

00:47:59.780 --> 00:48:02.099
exists in many towns and cities boston common

00:48:02.099 --> 00:48:04.860
is one of them the commonwealth of course refers

00:48:04.860 --> 00:48:07.119
uh also to the british commonwealth of nations

00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:10.190
which to me is a very pejorative, very negative

00:48:10.190 --> 00:48:14.969
thing, which is, you know, is a sublimation of

00:48:14.969 --> 00:48:19.909
empire. But the word itself, I think is, you

00:48:19.909 --> 00:48:22.670
know, to me is a gathering together of peoples

00:48:22.670 --> 00:48:27.250
with the understanding of hopefully achieving

00:48:27.250 --> 00:48:30.550
prosperity for a group, and that no one should

00:48:30.550 --> 00:48:35.010
be excluded from that particular group, you know,

00:48:35.010 --> 00:48:39.230
in any particular way, and that wealth and security

00:48:39.230 --> 00:48:44.269
and progress can be enshrined in this particular

00:48:44.269 --> 00:48:49.269
concept of commonwealth. And that, to me, certainly

00:48:49.269 --> 00:48:52.449
touched upon in Harari's book quite a bit, but

00:48:52.449 --> 00:48:55.130
not explicitly so, not at all. But it's something

00:48:55.130 --> 00:48:57.670
that I really wanted to end my piece with. So

00:48:57.670 --> 00:49:02.389
it starts with a series of whole notes, rather

00:49:02.389 --> 00:49:05.269
thick chords starting quietly and ending loudly.

00:49:06.170 --> 00:49:08.550
uh and then that set of chords repeated again

00:49:08.550 --> 00:49:12.690
and then it really kind of uh explores and again

00:49:12.690 --> 00:49:14.429
as you mentioned we're really in the key of c

00:49:14.429 --> 00:49:20.309
again almost entirely in in in the piece um and

00:49:20.309 --> 00:49:23.489
uh i think i'd like to think it ends hopefully

00:49:23.489 --> 00:49:29.650
big positively optimistically i do think that

00:49:29.650 --> 00:49:32.269
you know maybe not to get on any sort of soapbox

00:49:32.269 --> 00:49:35.400
and i certainly can't predict anything but I

00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:37.539
choose to live in a world where I think there

00:49:37.539 --> 00:49:40.400
are better days are ahead of us. And even if

00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:43.539
I have absolutely no influence on any of that,

00:49:43.639 --> 00:49:46.360
other than the fact that I can contribute to

00:49:46.360 --> 00:49:49.860
the world and model a piece of music, then I

00:49:49.860 --> 00:49:53.300
want to be the one to do that. And Commonwealth

00:49:53.300 --> 00:49:56.179
is a way of me, you know, essentially saying

00:49:56.179 --> 00:50:00.679
that this is, you know, this is my contribution

00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:03.139
to it and ends at a very, very, very loud and

00:50:03.139 --> 00:50:06.210
high. Note that the top of the piano is also

00:50:06.210 --> 00:50:46.010
a C. There's actually also a little quotation

00:50:46.010 --> 00:50:48.650
in there for those that are paying attention.

00:50:50.989 --> 00:50:55.070
I am deeply moved by one of my artistic heroes,

00:50:55.250 --> 00:50:57.329
which is the composer Dmitry, who is the composer

00:50:57.329 --> 00:51:00.530
Dmitry Shostakovich, who of course was the Soviet

00:51:00.530 --> 00:51:02.750
Union's most celebrated composer and lived in

00:51:02.750 --> 00:51:06.150
a time of incredible oppression, unbelievable

00:51:06.150 --> 00:51:10.610
circumstances that I cannot as a white male American

00:51:10.610 --> 00:51:16.429
and born when I am. imagine at all um and in

00:51:16.429 --> 00:51:19.750
so many of his works starting with the eighth

00:51:19.750 --> 00:51:22.570
string quartet and this piano trio and the tenth

00:51:22.570 --> 00:51:26.690
symphony and on and on has a particular um a

00:51:26.690 --> 00:51:29.090
series of pitches that outlines his name d e

00:51:29.090 --> 00:51:32.769
flat c and b natural uh and even that is in the

00:51:32.769 --> 00:51:35.769
very beginning because even in the very end of

00:51:35.769 --> 00:51:39.289
commonwealth because that to me is one of the

00:51:39.289 --> 00:51:43.420
brave artistic utterances in music history in

00:51:43.420 --> 00:51:48.980
that this man, this brave man who survived incredible

00:51:48.980 --> 00:51:53.860
oppression of Stalinist Soviet Union, put his

00:51:53.860 --> 00:51:56.780
stamp on everything that said, this is me. This

00:51:56.780 --> 00:52:00.800
is who I am. And I wanted to have one small,

00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:04.280
sublimated, hard -to -hear quote in that, which

00:52:04.280 --> 00:52:07.820
I've used in another piece. My cello concerto

00:52:07.820 --> 00:52:12.980
uses it as well. in my particular piece. Well,

00:52:12.980 --> 00:52:17.260
incredible work and congratulations. Thank you

00:52:17.260 --> 00:52:21.539
very much. How do you feel about creating such

00:52:21.539 --> 00:52:25.340
an expansive, it's like a total length of this

00:52:25.340 --> 00:52:27.579
piece itself is 50 minutes or something like

00:52:27.579 --> 00:52:30.940
that? It is, yeah. I mean, I have to say I have

00:52:30.940 --> 00:52:33.780
a kind of a hate -hate relationship with music

00:52:33.780 --> 00:52:38.539
after I've written it. I mean, I find sometimes

00:52:38.539 --> 00:52:42.840
what I do hard to listen to, and I'm usually

00:52:42.840 --> 00:52:45.000
on to the next thing and really focusing on that

00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:47.260
and feeling that I can do more, do better, do

00:52:47.260 --> 00:52:52.199
different. But Sapiens is just, to me, it's been

00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:54.639
quite successful and in the hands of such a great

00:52:54.639 --> 00:52:58.679
interpreter, Vladimir, who, frankly, I happened

00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:00.800
to meet in the middle of its composition. So

00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:04.519
I had very, very different ideas for Sapiens.

00:53:06.889 --> 00:53:08.349
You know, you mentioned when you were reading

00:53:08.349 --> 00:53:11.989
the book in 2020, we had quite a bit of change

00:53:11.989 --> 00:53:16.349
in our particular family circumstances. And the

00:53:16.349 --> 00:53:19.849
idea that when I finished writing the piece in

00:53:19.849 --> 00:53:25.969
21, that we would do some sort of global premiere

00:53:25.969 --> 00:53:28.550
in three different continents with three different

00:53:28.550 --> 00:53:31.090
pianists taking sections of the piece. And we

00:53:31.090 --> 00:53:34.449
do it all on Zoom. And to be perfectly honest.

00:53:35.869 --> 00:53:38.610
I just got overwhelmed by the logistics of doing

00:53:38.610 --> 00:53:40.489
that, and I just didn't have my heart in it.

00:53:40.550 --> 00:53:42.650
I liked the idea. I had three pianists and three

00:53:42.650 --> 00:53:46.329
continents that were willing to take it on, which

00:53:46.329 --> 00:53:49.130
I think would have been very cool. And in the

00:53:49.130 --> 00:53:52.190
midst of it, I was introduced to Vladimir by

00:53:52.190 --> 00:53:57.269
a dear friend of mine, Shain Wang, who commissioned

00:53:57.269 --> 00:53:59.510
and premiered probably my second largest piano

00:53:59.510 --> 00:54:01.869
piece, which is called Cursive, years ago, for

00:54:01.869 --> 00:54:04.480
Lincoln Center. And Cheyenne is on the faculty

00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:06.880
at Manus too. And she said, you have to hear

00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:10.119
this guy, Vladimir Rumyantsev. He's one of the

00:54:10.119 --> 00:54:13.639
handful of people that I think could really play

00:54:13.639 --> 00:54:21.139
your massive piece of music and realize and articulate

00:54:21.139 --> 00:54:26.480
your ambitions for it. We were at the time, my

00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:28.559
daughter was at Interlochen Arts Academy. We

00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:30.880
were living, I was in residence there. We were

00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:33.260
living temporarily in Northern Michigan, supporting

00:54:33.260 --> 00:54:37.099
her. And Cheyenne sent me a clip of him playing

00:54:37.099 --> 00:54:40.840
one section, Confirmation Bias, actually. And

00:54:40.840 --> 00:54:42.559
I said I had to meet him when I come back to

00:54:42.559 --> 00:54:45.719
New York. So I met him, we hit it off. He gave

00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:48.800
the premiere here in New York. We did the recording

00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:51.300
at the Sono Luminous Studios in February of last

00:54:51.300 --> 00:54:55.489
year, which is in Virginia. And we, as I mentioned

00:54:55.489 --> 00:54:57.530
in the fall, did a little tour in Chicago and

00:54:57.530 --> 00:55:01.849
New York where he performed a piece, I lectured

00:55:01.849 --> 00:55:04.329
and talked about it, did some interviews, and

00:55:04.329 --> 00:55:06.670
it's just been such a great experience because

00:55:06.670 --> 00:55:10.329
he is truly one of, I mean, I've been blessed

00:55:10.329 --> 00:55:12.829
to work with a lot of brilliant musicians, especially

00:55:12.829 --> 00:55:15.849
pianists, it seems, and he just, there's nothing

00:55:15.849 --> 00:55:19.889
in his, nothing seems to intimidate him at all.

00:55:21.150 --> 00:55:24.250
incredible memory for Tempe that I do not have

00:55:24.250 --> 00:55:28.230
at all. And, well, in fact, everything about

00:55:28.230 --> 00:55:30.769
him is exactly what I love about him. I don't

00:55:30.769 --> 00:55:34.650
possess it on myself. So it's really been such

00:55:34.650 --> 00:55:38.190
a great experience. So he's, we wouldn't be here,

00:55:38.210 --> 00:55:39.809
wouldn't be having this conversation if it weren't

00:55:39.809 --> 00:55:43.090
for Vladimir. And just out of curiosity, have

00:55:43.090 --> 00:55:45.769
you ever had any direct contact with the author,

00:55:45.969 --> 00:55:49.969
Harari, Mr. Harari? So, not direct with him,

00:55:50.050 --> 00:55:53.090
but I do have the permission from his publisher

00:55:53.090 --> 00:55:58.210
and for Sapienship, which is the nonprofit organization

00:55:58.210 --> 00:56:03.409
that Harari started to promote the ideas and

00:56:03.409 --> 00:56:06.630
the vision and the book several years ago. Before

00:56:06.630 --> 00:56:08.869
I really got, well, I shouldn't say before I

00:56:08.869 --> 00:56:12.429
got started, while I was started and, you know,

00:56:12.429 --> 00:56:14.150
really thought that this was going to come together,

00:56:14.210 --> 00:56:16.429
I contacted them and it took a while for me to

00:56:16.429 --> 00:56:19.400
really. pin them down but they gave me the blessing

00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:21.500
to utilize the work and the inspiration of the

00:56:21.500 --> 00:56:24.039
book provided that the author was acknowledged

00:56:24.039 --> 00:56:26.960
which well certainly he is in every interview

00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:29.980
I do and every piece of text that we write about

00:56:29.980 --> 00:56:33.239
it's inspired by him but I've not yet met him

00:56:33.239 --> 00:56:35.900
directly and I would have to say I would love

00:56:35.900 --> 00:56:40.260
to yeah and he should listen to your music he

00:56:40.260 --> 00:56:44.469
might have already I hope so. I've sent it to

00:56:44.469 --> 00:56:47.389
him and to his people, and they're very, very

00:56:47.389 --> 00:56:50.730
aware of it, but I haven't heard back yet. So

00:56:50.730 --> 00:56:53.929
you mentioned you've been traveling, touring

00:56:53.929 --> 00:56:57.469
with the pianist Vladimir with the piece, right?

00:56:57.590 --> 00:57:03.449
So he is performing, and at the same time, are

00:57:03.449 --> 00:57:06.489
you giving some sort of lecture, master class

00:57:06.489 --> 00:57:10.829
together? Yes, so we did that at the Manus School.

00:57:11.420 --> 00:57:15.000
um where i met you a few months ago um you know

00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:18.179
basically a lecture demonstration on my inspiration

00:57:18.179 --> 00:57:20.139
for the piece and some of the signposts that

00:57:20.139 --> 00:57:22.960
to listen throughout it he of course performs

00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:25.360
it we did a somewhat similar thing in chicago

00:57:25.360 --> 00:57:28.380
at a very cool new venue called the checkout

00:57:28.380 --> 00:57:32.000
uh in early september that was more of an interview

00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:35.440
with seth bausted who runs um access contemporary

00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:38.280
music there and is the owner of the venue um

00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:42.800
so We like to be able to do this as a sort of

00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:47.280
collaborative thing where I don't touch the piano

00:57:47.280 --> 00:57:49.159
at all, but I'm happy to talk about the piece

00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:51.460
and the inspiration behind it, and he's happy

00:57:51.460 --> 00:57:54.480
to play it. We'd like to do more. We do have

00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:58.780
Wigmore Hall in London on our horizons. I don't

00:57:58.780 --> 00:58:00.679
have anything firm yet, though I did meet with

00:58:00.679 --> 00:58:03.420
him two weeks ago and at least planted the seed,

00:58:03.519 --> 00:58:07.539
so I'm hopeful at some point. We may be able

00:58:07.539 --> 00:58:10.460
to make that a reality sometime in the next couple

00:58:10.460 --> 00:58:14.380
of years. It has not yet been played in Europe

00:58:14.380 --> 00:58:16.719
or Asia or anywhere else for that matter. So

00:58:16.719 --> 00:58:20.719
my hope is that the recording will, like any

00:58:20.719 --> 00:58:24.119
recording should, give it life outside, you know,

00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:27.820
my feeble little head in the hands of one performer.

00:58:28.340 --> 00:58:30.480
And hopefully, you know, others will be inspired

00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:34.039
to play it too. There's surely a ton of great

00:58:34.039 --> 00:58:36.460
pianists that could make something of it. I would

00:58:36.460 --> 00:58:38.260
love to continue working with Vladimir and we

00:58:38.260 --> 00:58:43.320
definitely will. But, you know, we really want

00:58:43.320 --> 00:58:45.719
to expand it into performances in other parts

00:58:45.719 --> 00:58:48.000
of the world and discussions if they're merited.

00:58:48.800 --> 00:58:52.760
Yes. Yeah. And then I saw, I think, photo or

00:58:52.760 --> 00:58:57.280
video of you at Manus with the piano. And then

00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:00.360
also I saw, how do you call it, projector or

00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:04.449
screen. showing the but have you ever done any

00:59:04.449 --> 00:59:06.510
of these things like where there's a picture

00:59:06.510 --> 00:59:08.889
showing while performing or something like that

00:59:08.889 --> 00:59:11.409
or have you thought of it i have thought of it

00:59:11.409 --> 00:59:13.210
and i have to say i hadn't thought of it before

00:59:13.210 --> 00:59:15.110
that and that's problematic because a couple

00:59:15.110 --> 00:59:17.389
people came after up to me after that show and

00:59:17.389 --> 00:59:21.349
said like you know this is great great talk great

00:59:21.349 --> 00:59:23.329
thing that you had the image of the album which

00:59:23.329 --> 00:59:29.070
is you know right here um right up there But

00:59:29.070 --> 00:59:32.929
what you didn't have is, at the very least, letting

00:59:32.929 --> 00:59:36.489
me know what section I'm in. Because even though

00:59:36.489 --> 00:59:38.949
there are pauses between all but one of the movements,

00:59:39.190 --> 00:59:43.429
the people weren't really clear where they were.

00:59:43.630 --> 00:59:46.309
And a couple of people said, wow, the piece sounded

00:59:46.309 --> 00:59:48.030
shorter than it was. I can't believe that was

00:59:48.030 --> 00:59:52.030
52 minutes or whatever it was. So at the very

00:59:52.030 --> 00:59:53.929
least, I would like to do something where we

00:59:53.929 --> 00:59:56.550
can indicate the movement sections in sort of

00:59:56.550 --> 00:59:59.800
an AV. type presentation and maybe just maybe

00:59:59.800 --> 01:00:04.219
um if we want to uh you know i would love to

01:00:04.219 --> 01:00:07.960
one day commission someone to do a film to accompany

01:00:07.960 --> 01:00:13.780
uh accompany this i have a um colleague who i've

01:00:13.780 --> 01:00:15.340
met within the last couple years actually met

01:00:15.340 --> 01:00:17.780
him at another piano recital that i had of another

01:00:17.780 --> 01:00:21.920
piece of mine uh early last year his name is

01:00:21.920 --> 01:00:25.659
j henry fair And he does an enormous amount of

01:00:25.659 --> 01:00:29.159
film and video and photography taken from airplanes

01:00:29.159 --> 01:00:33.380
and helicopters. And his focus is on what man

01:00:33.380 --> 01:00:37.360
has done to the landscape of the world. So there's

01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:42.579
a lot of very interesting river deltas and polluted

01:00:42.579 --> 01:00:45.199
and degraded landscapes and mine tailings and

01:00:45.199 --> 01:00:46.780
things like that. It might be a little depressive.

01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:48.980
um but there's certainly a lot of inspiration

01:00:48.980 --> 01:00:51.820
that we could you know maybe look at uh for something

01:00:51.820 --> 01:00:53.699
down the road so yes i would like to do that

01:00:53.699 --> 01:00:57.980
for sure yeah it would be amazing such a great

01:00:57.980 --> 01:01:01.920
piece so as a pianist you know but as a composer

01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:04.920
do you hope the pianist to play the in its entirety

01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:10.000
in back to back in order in one concert or can

01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:14.019
we play maybe one separately Well, as I mentioned,

01:01:14.139 --> 01:01:16.519
the confirmation bias was performed a couple

01:01:16.519 --> 01:01:18.940
of times by Vladimir on its own as part of a

01:01:18.940 --> 01:01:21.679
recital program with Mozart and Haydn and Chopin

01:01:21.679 --> 01:01:23.800
or whatever else. And I think that's just fine.

01:01:23.900 --> 01:01:26.099
I would prefer it performed as a whole piece,

01:01:26.239 --> 01:01:30.000
but I would never, well, I don't think in any

01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:32.260
case of anything I've ever written, say that

01:01:32.260 --> 01:01:36.679
it would be not right to play a section of a

01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:40.710
piece. Two of my concertos that I've written

01:01:40.710 --> 01:01:43.130
have been excerpted. The final movement has been

01:01:43.130 --> 01:01:47.690
played of each, which I felt was just fine. I

01:01:47.690 --> 01:01:50.530
don't really consider this a multi -movement

01:01:50.530 --> 01:01:53.010
piece, but it really is a multi -sectional piece.

01:01:53.369 --> 01:01:55.969
So I think if someone feels particularly connected

01:01:55.969 --> 01:01:58.630
to one or more sections of the piece, by all

01:01:58.630 --> 01:02:01.329
means, you have my blessing as a composer, for

01:02:01.329 --> 01:02:05.159
sure. Is the score available? It sure is. For

01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:07.219
anyone who asked me, I send it out all the time

01:02:07.219 --> 01:02:10.840
via my website. It's not there present on the

01:02:10.840 --> 01:02:14.539
website to view in its entirety. There are, I

01:02:14.539 --> 01:02:17.519
believe, segments of it. But for anybody who

01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:21.059
wishes to contact me directly, I'm happy to share

01:02:21.059 --> 01:02:24.719
it with anybody. I work with a couple of different

01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:27.679
publishers, but much of my work is published

01:02:27.679 --> 01:02:31.119
in my own company called Cantabile, and I make

01:02:31.119 --> 01:02:33.940
it available freely. and without charge to anyone

01:02:33.940 --> 01:02:36.920
who wants any of my piano work. So it's just

01:02:36.920 --> 01:02:43.059
reach out to me. So how can we be in touch with

01:02:43.059 --> 01:02:46.119
you? Is there a website, SeanHickey .com? SeanHickey

01:02:46.119 --> 01:02:49.619
.com is there. Contact me, Paige. Send me your

01:02:49.619 --> 01:02:52.579
info. I'll get the email, and either I or my

01:02:52.579 --> 01:02:55.579
assistant will have it emailed. And for those

01:02:55.579 --> 01:02:59.119
that want it printed and bound. Just require

01:02:59.119 --> 01:03:02.420
a bit of postage for that. We can ship that out.

01:03:02.500 --> 01:03:05.420
That's not a problem. And then where can we listen

01:03:05.420 --> 01:03:09.500
to your music? So you can, and I hope others

01:03:09.500 --> 01:03:11.820
do, follow me wherever you listen to music on

01:03:11.820 --> 01:03:14.679
any of the platforms. Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon.

01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:18.820
If you go to my website, SeanHickey .com, you

01:03:18.820 --> 01:03:22.280
will see listen links and buy links for most

01:03:22.280 --> 01:03:24.639
of the recordings I have. Sapiens, I believe,

01:03:24.760 --> 01:03:29.260
is my 12th commercially available. I had another

01:03:29.260 --> 01:03:32.400
one earlier this year, another piece on a program

01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:38.440
this year, interesting program. So wherever you

01:03:38.440 --> 01:03:41.380
listen, you can find me. I would encourage your

01:03:41.380 --> 01:03:44.480
viewers and your listeners to follow me on Spotify

01:03:44.480 --> 01:03:47.940
or wherever they normally listen to music. The

01:03:47.940 --> 01:03:49.440
vast majority of the people, and this is what

01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:54.059
I do in my other job, stream where access is

01:03:54.059 --> 01:03:57.409
more important than ownership. In our world of

01:03:57.409 --> 01:04:01.130
streaming, you can access my music anywhere and

01:04:01.130 --> 01:04:02.909
it's as easy for you as it is for the person

01:04:02.909 --> 01:04:05.809
next door. But for those that really want to

01:04:05.809 --> 01:04:08.869
buy and purchase and experience the physical

01:04:08.869 --> 01:04:11.690
manifestation of the piece, again, that's it

01:04:11.690 --> 01:04:16.170
right there. You will be able to buy that wherever

01:04:16.170 --> 01:04:19.190
records are sold. So Amazon record stores or

01:04:19.190 --> 01:04:23.420
via the website sonoluminous .com. record label

01:04:23.420 --> 01:04:25.900
based in Virginia run by a dear friend of mine,

01:04:25.980 --> 01:04:29.139
Colin Ray, who really got behind the recording

01:04:29.139 --> 01:04:32.320
of this piece when I first presented it to him.

01:04:32.460 --> 01:04:36.280
So sonoluminous .com as well. Sonoluminous .com.

01:04:36.360 --> 01:04:39.599
Great. Thank you so much. Is there anything else

01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:43.719
you want to mention about this album, Sapiens?

01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:48.059
I think I just encourage people to listen, to

01:04:48.059 --> 01:04:50.260
listen critically. It doesn't necessarily need

01:04:50.260 --> 01:04:53.840
a program at all. hopefully to enjoy it. I think

01:04:53.840 --> 01:04:57.159
it lends itself a lot to greater enjoyment if

01:04:57.159 --> 01:05:00.219
you do have an understanding of the program and,

01:05:00.300 --> 01:05:04.940
you know, all of my sort of reasons for doing

01:05:04.940 --> 01:05:07.460
it as this piano is the sort of meta instrument

01:05:07.460 --> 01:05:10.980
as voyeur and witness to history, not just our

01:05:10.980 --> 01:05:14.199
deep, deep past, but our present and maybe our

01:05:14.199 --> 01:05:17.179
future as well, united in the sort of common

01:05:17.179 --> 01:05:22.179
cause. But ultimately, I think people can and

01:05:22.179 --> 01:05:25.059
should enjoy it without understanding or knowledge

01:05:25.059 --> 01:05:27.940
of that program. I just want to have this particular

01:05:27.940 --> 01:05:30.699
piece have a bigger and better and greater life

01:05:30.699 --> 01:05:33.099
beyond the handful of performances that it's

01:05:33.099 --> 01:05:34.679
had and beyond this recording, which I'm very

01:05:34.679 --> 01:05:37.840
happy with. So I encourage others to pick it

01:05:37.840 --> 01:05:39.960
up. I encourage others to listen. I hope people

01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:43.420
reach out to me via my website. And stay tuned

01:05:43.420 --> 01:05:59.070
for more. So now I want to change the subject.

01:06:00.110 --> 01:06:05.869
With over 20 years at Naxos and now leading Pentatone,

01:06:05.889 --> 01:06:08.590
which is an independent record label, you've

01:06:08.590 --> 01:06:11.690
seen countless records come and go, I'm sure.

01:06:12.010 --> 01:06:15.789
So in your experience, what is the secret sauce

01:06:15.789 --> 01:06:20.309
that allows a record to transcend its era and

01:06:20.309 --> 01:06:24.869
become truly timeless? Well, I would direct...

01:06:25.070 --> 01:06:26.949
your listeners attention to an article i wrote

01:06:26.949 --> 01:06:29.110
recently which you'll find on linkedin and also

01:06:29.110 --> 01:06:31.690
on the pentatone website the news section of

01:06:31.690 --> 01:06:34.309
the pentatone website and the title of the article

01:06:34.309 --> 01:06:39.750
is release rationale why and why now and um this

01:06:39.750 --> 01:06:42.469
i think relates to sapiens and there's a good

01:06:42.469 --> 01:06:46.570
segue from sapiens um the the whole point of

01:06:46.570 --> 01:06:49.070
a successful recording in this industry and you're

01:06:49.070 --> 01:06:50.929
right i've been in it for more than three decades

01:06:50.929 --> 01:06:54.630
is uh Storytelling needs to be at the heart and

01:06:54.630 --> 01:06:57.429
the center of everything a recording artist must

01:06:57.429 --> 01:07:01.650
do. A recording should never be a list. It should

01:07:01.650 --> 01:07:05.590
never be a concert program unless that concert

01:07:05.590 --> 01:07:09.329
program has storytelling at its heart. And in

01:07:09.329 --> 01:07:12.010
that particular article, I did my best to articulate.

01:07:12.150 --> 01:07:16.010
So at Pentaton, you can imagine we receive roughly

01:07:16.010 --> 01:07:20.130
a dozen or more submissions every week from unknown

01:07:20.130 --> 01:07:21.989
artists to some of the biggest artists in the

01:07:21.989 --> 01:07:24.329
world. big, big names that you and your listeners

01:07:24.329 --> 01:07:27.769
will know very, very well. And sadly, many of

01:07:27.769 --> 01:07:30.909
them don't put a whole lot of thought into, you

01:07:30.909 --> 01:07:35.730
know, what is important to them. On the piano

01:07:35.730 --> 01:07:38.409
over here, I have tacked up on the side of it

01:07:38.409 --> 01:07:41.869
something that I is there to remind myself, but

01:07:41.869 --> 01:07:43.590
it's a quote from Arnold Schoenberg, who's not

01:07:43.590 --> 01:07:46.610
a composer I feel particularly simpatico with

01:07:46.610 --> 01:07:49.719
necessarily. But he said one great thing is that

01:07:49.719 --> 01:07:51.940
one must be convinced of the infallibility of

01:07:51.940 --> 01:07:55.099
one's own fantasy, which is another way of saying

01:07:55.099 --> 01:07:59.300
be yourself, right? Be your best authentic self.

01:07:59.460 --> 01:08:02.420
And, you know, that's really the thing. A couple

01:08:02.420 --> 01:08:05.360
of calls I had before you are with a couple of

01:08:05.360 --> 01:08:07.699
rather notable artists that I had to kind of

01:08:07.699 --> 01:08:10.519
say, you know, let's flesh out your idea a little

01:08:10.519 --> 01:08:13.960
more. Let's understand a little more about what

01:08:13.960 --> 01:08:18.170
you're trying to do and trying to say. There

01:08:18.170 --> 01:08:21.489
are roughly 6 ,000 commercially available classical

01:08:21.489 --> 01:08:24.729
music recordings released annually. That's how

01:08:24.729 --> 01:08:27.630
many there were last year. I am the chair of

01:08:27.630 --> 01:08:30.689
one of the Recording Academy committees for composition.

01:08:30.970 --> 01:08:36.810
I'm the chair of that. We reviewed over 2 ,000

01:08:36.810 --> 01:08:40.829
submissions in classical, which is, I'm told,

01:08:40.970 --> 01:08:45.979
more than twice hip -hop and rock. You know,

01:08:46.020 --> 01:08:48.340
there's a huge amount of music being written.

01:08:48.699 --> 01:08:51.079
There's a huge amount of music being recorded.

01:08:51.159 --> 01:08:52.899
And there's a huge amount of music being released

01:08:52.899 --> 01:08:55.220
every year. And in order for your particular

01:08:55.220 --> 01:08:59.420
project and the infallibility of one's fantasy

01:08:59.420 --> 01:09:02.239
to stand out is to put storytelling, I think,

01:09:02.239 --> 01:09:05.560
at the heart of everything that you wish to do.

01:09:05.760 --> 01:09:08.260
And when you do that, there's a lot more interest

01:09:08.260 --> 01:09:10.140
from media. There's a lot more interest from

01:09:10.140 --> 01:09:13.039
our DSP partners, Spotify, Apple, et cetera.

01:09:13.940 --> 01:09:17.539
And it makes our job easier because we help tell

01:09:17.539 --> 01:09:20.100
the story with the artist. And at Pentatone,

01:09:20.159 --> 01:09:22.859
we have 11 -person staff. We have in -house sales,

01:09:22.979 --> 01:09:26.680
marketing, PR, communication infrastructure that

01:09:26.680 --> 01:09:30.979
routinely teases out of the artist why is it

01:09:30.979 --> 01:09:33.520
that they do what they do, what makes it important.

01:09:33.739 --> 01:09:37.720
Why is what you do unique in the world? I mean,

01:09:37.739 --> 01:09:39.840
as you know, there's surely a lot of people in

01:09:39.840 --> 01:09:41.239
the world that can play Chopin on the piano.

01:09:42.600 --> 01:09:44.600
And it takes nothing away from the talent of

01:09:44.600 --> 01:09:46.239
any one of them. It certainly takes nothing away

01:09:46.239 --> 01:09:48.819
from the brilliance of that particular composer,

01:09:48.979 --> 01:09:51.260
because in my mind, he's more brilliant the more

01:09:51.260 --> 01:09:56.899
you listen. But one must ask why, and related

01:09:56.899 --> 01:09:59.619
to that, why now? And then maybe related to that

01:09:59.619 --> 01:10:03.380
second question, why me? And if you can't fully

01:10:03.380 --> 01:10:05.319
answer that question, it's probably not time

01:10:05.319 --> 01:10:08.300
to necessarily make a recording, or maybe time

01:10:08.300 --> 01:10:10.800
to make something that... is a little different

01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:13.720
than what you had set out to do. That's a huge

01:10:13.720 --> 01:10:16.880
part of my public speaking work. And my work

01:10:16.880 --> 01:10:19.520
at Pentatone is discussing that with artists

01:10:19.520 --> 01:10:24.199
around the world. Wow, that's incredible. So

01:10:24.199 --> 01:10:28.920
you also teach entrepreneurship to fellow musicians.

01:10:29.079 --> 01:10:32.319
I've seen the video before on social media. And

01:10:32.319 --> 01:10:36.159
so what you know about with the streaming and...

01:10:36.380 --> 01:10:38.359
also we have to think about sustainability as

01:10:38.359 --> 01:10:42.439
an artist and then ai is creating also music

01:10:42.439 --> 01:10:45.899
these days i guess so from everything you've

01:10:45.899 --> 01:10:50.640
seen as a musician and also as a someone who

01:10:50.640 --> 01:10:55.399
who's a ceo of pentatone music so do you still

01:10:55.869 --> 01:10:58.909
feel hopeful about our industry music making

01:10:58.909 --> 01:11:03.210
well what do you think yeah yeah i wouldn't be

01:11:03.210 --> 01:11:04.789
in it if i wasn't hopeful because i think as

01:11:04.789 --> 01:11:06.550
i mentioned earlier i wanted to end my piece

01:11:06.550 --> 01:11:10.210
with some degree of hope uh and i definitely

01:11:10.210 --> 01:11:13.390
believe because i choose to believe that there

01:11:13.390 --> 01:11:16.630
is a lot of hope i mean uh the one thing that

01:11:16.630 --> 01:11:21.449
uh you know i did not I am not streaming native

01:11:21.449 --> 01:11:24.670
and I'm not iPhone native, but those that are

01:11:24.670 --> 01:11:28.949
20 years younger than me are. And I very distinctly

01:11:28.949 --> 01:11:31.630
remember a time as I worked in one that people

01:11:31.630 --> 01:11:34.430
discovered music in two ways, either on the radio

01:11:34.430 --> 01:11:37.930
or going to a record store. Or a third way, a

01:11:37.930 --> 01:11:40.529
friend turned you on to a particular thing. All

01:11:40.529 --> 01:11:42.229
of those things are valid now. They still very

01:11:42.229 --> 01:11:47.689
much exist. But the fact that streaming opens.

01:11:48.430 --> 01:11:51.710
you know the window to the world's music and

01:11:51.710 --> 01:11:54.470
you know with the access you know just your particular

01:11:54.470 --> 01:11:58.189
device to be able in moments notice to be listening

01:11:58.189 --> 01:12:01.050
to something that you haven't heard of or you're

01:12:01.050 --> 01:12:03.229
curious about this artist or this composer or

01:12:03.229 --> 01:12:06.170
that work and to be able to do it just at a at

01:12:06.170 --> 01:12:09.029
a touch of a button is something we take for

01:12:09.029 --> 01:12:11.310
granted but it's utterly utterly revolutionary

01:12:11.310 --> 01:12:13.609
of course same is true with video same is true

01:12:13.609 --> 01:12:16.050
with on -demand anything same is true with delivery

01:12:16.050 --> 01:12:18.989
of You know, whatever your next meal is going

01:12:18.989 --> 01:12:21.090
to be, you know, being able to dream it and envision

01:12:21.090 --> 01:12:22.510
it. And if you live in New York, it's probably

01:12:22.510 --> 01:12:26.130
at your front door in an hour. So all of these

01:12:26.130 --> 01:12:28.470
things are quite revolutionary. And someone who's

01:12:28.470 --> 01:12:31.609
my age, I don't ever want to lose the sort of

01:12:31.609 --> 01:12:37.069
sense of wonder that we have with this development

01:12:37.069 --> 01:12:41.329
of technology. There certainly are threats. I

01:12:41.329 --> 01:12:44.130
feel, and I've written about this too, there's

01:12:44.130 --> 01:12:47.350
both huge threats and huge opportunity as a result

01:12:47.350 --> 01:12:51.750
of AI. The biggest threat that I think AI poses

01:12:51.750 --> 01:12:56.289
from the issue of rights is the ability to take

01:12:56.289 --> 01:12:58.310
money out of the pockets of music rights holders,

01:12:58.489 --> 01:13:01.590
which is to say songwriters and composers and

01:13:01.590 --> 01:13:04.770
record labels. Because right now, if you're,

01:13:05.069 --> 01:13:08.109
say, a music director of a production company,

01:13:08.829 --> 01:13:10.670
and you have a particular scene in your movie

01:13:10.670 --> 01:13:15.729
that you need um whatever seven seconds of quasi

01:13:15.729 --> 01:13:19.689
eastern sounding violin music uh that starts

01:13:19.689 --> 01:13:21.710
quietly and ends loudly and maybe there's a choir

01:13:21.710 --> 01:13:25.550
in the last four seconds um that is a question

01:13:25.550 --> 01:13:28.850
that we at pentatone get almost every day and

01:13:28.850 --> 01:13:32.189
uh just as an example of one and we might have

01:13:32.189 --> 01:13:34.850
a number of hours only to respond to it with

01:13:34.850 --> 01:13:38.909
the knowledge of our catalog AI can crawl our

01:13:38.909 --> 01:13:42.329
catalog and determine what is the most suitable

01:13:42.329 --> 01:13:45.989
stuff that might fit that particular spec. But

01:13:45.989 --> 01:13:49.029
to take it further, right now, artificial intelligence

01:13:49.029 --> 01:13:52.029
can produce exactly that on spec in a matter

01:13:52.029 --> 01:13:54.409
of seconds, and there's no rights behind it at

01:13:54.409 --> 01:13:57.890
all. So there's no remuneration for a creator

01:13:57.890 --> 01:13:59.869
because there is no human creator behind that

01:13:59.869 --> 01:14:02.850
particular seven seconds of music that's used

01:14:02.850 --> 01:14:05.579
in the film. And I think that's very detrimental

01:14:05.579 --> 01:14:07.859
and damaging because it takes the human element.

01:14:08.819 --> 01:14:10.359
You know, if you have a human filmmaker, why

01:14:10.359 --> 01:14:14.560
would you not have a human composer? But all

01:14:14.560 --> 01:14:16.840
of that said, there's also a huge opportunity

01:14:16.840 --> 01:14:20.960
for AI. You know, I think there is quite a lot

01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:22.579
of opportunity and a lot of people use it as

01:14:22.579 --> 01:14:24.939
a compositional tool to organize thoughts, just

01:14:24.939 --> 01:14:29.340
like you might utilize ChatGPT to organize a

01:14:29.340 --> 01:14:33.989
framework or an outline or a bio. You know, the

01:14:33.989 --> 01:14:36.489
same is true, you know, in music. It's not necessarily

01:14:36.489 --> 01:14:39.069
something that I personally want to do, but I

01:14:39.069 --> 01:14:41.130
don't make a value judgment on those that do.

01:14:42.090 --> 01:14:46.829
And a number of other things. I mean, AI, as

01:14:46.829 --> 01:14:49.189
far as I'm concerned, if AI can do anything really

01:14:49.189 --> 01:14:53.050
good and lasting in this or any lifetime is find

01:14:53.050 --> 01:14:55.529
a cure for the diseases that ravage our world,

01:14:55.590 --> 01:14:58.569
starting with cancer. Almost everybody I know

01:14:58.569 --> 01:15:00.569
has been touched by cancer in one way or another.

01:15:00.970 --> 01:15:04.779
And if it can do that. by replicating quickly

01:15:04.779 --> 01:15:07.079
and methodically all of the things that human

01:15:07.079 --> 01:15:09.979
beings have been slow relatively to do thus far,

01:15:10.180 --> 01:15:13.380
whatever damage it might cause music and the

01:15:13.380 --> 01:15:16.840
creators might increase longevity. And is that

01:15:16.840 --> 01:15:18.800
a trade -off that we're willing to make? I would

01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:21.699
say that many people would be okay with that.

01:15:22.279 --> 01:15:25.659
But that is, you know, AI is something that we

01:15:25.659 --> 01:15:28.359
deal with and talk about all the time in the

01:15:28.359 --> 01:15:33.409
record industry. Yeah. It's a really scary thought,

01:15:33.729 --> 01:15:42.689
but I don't think AI can ever recreate us, our

01:15:42.689 --> 01:15:46.630
stories, and I don't know. I'm still hopeful.

01:15:46.810 --> 01:15:48.649
I don't know that it can recreate either, but

01:15:48.649 --> 01:15:50.850
I was at a conference two, if not three years

01:15:50.850 --> 01:15:54.130
ago, where there was a music panel on AI. I wasn't

01:15:54.130 --> 01:15:56.850
part of it, but I was in the audience, and a

01:15:56.850 --> 01:16:02.369
woman played, started her talk with a piece of

01:16:02.369 --> 01:16:04.789
music, play 30 seconds of music, and then 30

01:16:04.789 --> 01:16:07.869
seconds of another piece of music, and ask the

01:16:07.869 --> 01:16:11.329
audience to identify which one was AI -generated.

01:16:11.489 --> 01:16:14.729
And it was quasi -Baroque -sounding, maybe Italian

01:16:14.729 --> 01:16:17.130
to me. It was Vivaldi or maybe Corelli or something

01:16:17.130 --> 01:16:19.729
like that, though I couldn't recognize the piece,

01:16:19.930 --> 01:16:24.310
not that I would. And the answer in the end was

01:16:24.310 --> 01:16:28.449
both of them were. And, you know, these kind

01:16:28.449 --> 01:16:32.819
of experiments are replicated. quite a bit. We

01:16:32.819 --> 01:16:39.659
don't know what the future has in these areas.

01:16:40.600 --> 01:16:42.939
For me, the most important thing is to do all

01:16:42.939 --> 01:16:44.659
we can to protect the rights of the creators

01:16:44.659 --> 01:16:47.899
and the rights of the people that try to guide

01:16:47.899 --> 01:16:49.880
the creators, the labels, the distribution entities,

01:16:50.920 --> 01:16:54.239
everybody in the sort of music ecosystem that

01:16:54.239 --> 01:16:57.119
helps us translate our ideas into commercial

01:16:57.119 --> 01:17:03.510
realization. When humanity looks back, hopefully

01:17:03.510 --> 01:17:06.689
there's humanity still, decades or hundreds of

01:17:06.689 --> 01:17:09.890
years from now, and when your music outlives

01:17:09.890 --> 01:17:14.289
us, how would you like sapiens to be remembered?

01:17:15.850 --> 01:17:19.949
That's a good question. Well, I guess I would

01:17:19.949 --> 01:17:22.850
like to think ultimately that this is my small

01:17:22.850 --> 01:17:25.930
contribution and the overall scope of humankind

01:17:25.930 --> 01:17:29.039
to... you know presents something that i hope

01:17:29.039 --> 01:17:31.680
is hopeful and lasting and which is no different

01:17:31.680 --> 01:17:36.220
than uh the beethoven symphony or what have you

01:17:36.220 --> 01:17:38.539
not to equate myself with beethoven but i mean

01:17:38.539 --> 01:17:41.760
he and i i think have taken on some pretty ambitious

01:17:41.760 --> 01:17:46.300
and broad and universal concepts um and that

01:17:46.300 --> 01:17:48.640
i hope sapiens is you know viewed in that light

01:17:48.640 --> 01:17:50.939
but i also hope that it's uh you know that my

01:17:50.939 --> 01:17:54.140
work is um something that ultimately i mean i

01:17:54.140 --> 01:17:58.039
hate to be dispassionate about it But it's the

01:17:58.039 --> 01:18:00.140
work that I need to do. It's the work that makes

01:18:00.140 --> 01:18:02.939
me who I am. I can't imagine a life where I'm

01:18:02.939 --> 01:18:06.579
not doing it. I can't imagine living and not

01:18:06.579 --> 01:18:08.779
making music. I've been doing it since I was

01:18:08.779 --> 01:18:13.920
a child. And, you know, I just hope that others

01:18:13.920 --> 01:18:15.760
can find some sort of fulfillment, some sort

01:18:15.760 --> 01:18:17.680
of enjoyment, and maybe some recognition of themselves

01:18:17.680 --> 01:18:23.659
in it, especially as I try to tackle some particular

01:18:23.659 --> 01:18:29.479
concepts. that I think you don't necessarily

01:18:29.479 --> 01:18:32.380
need to have a whole lot of knowledge of those

01:18:32.380 --> 01:18:35.039
particular concepts, but it might help you, like

01:18:35.039 --> 01:18:37.920
the Sapiens, understand a bit more of the reasons

01:18:37.920 --> 01:18:41.720
behind everything. I think there's an issue with

01:18:41.720 --> 01:18:44.500
classical music broadly that some people feel

01:18:44.500 --> 01:18:47.779
that you have to have a huge amount of knowledge

01:18:47.779 --> 01:18:49.779
to really understand and appreciate the music,

01:18:49.819 --> 01:18:52.460
and I do not believe that to be true. I do not

01:18:52.460 --> 01:18:54.060
believe that you need to know what Brahms had

01:18:54.060 --> 01:18:56.340
for breakfast every morning in Vienna, wherever,

01:18:56.500 --> 01:18:58.899
when he was writing his piano sonata or whatever.

01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:03.119
That might provide some interesting background

01:19:03.119 --> 01:19:05.340
if you ever go to these great places where the

01:19:05.340 --> 01:19:08.119
masters lived and you experience how they might

01:19:08.119 --> 01:19:10.699
have lived a little bit. It does help understand

01:19:10.699 --> 01:19:12.659
it if you're privileged enough to do some of

01:19:12.659 --> 01:19:15.260
those things. But classical music requires one

01:19:15.260 --> 01:19:17.960
thing of you, one thing of the listener overall,

01:19:18.399 --> 01:19:22.020
in my mind, and that's time. Time is incredibly

01:19:22.020 --> 01:19:26.779
valuable, and it seems our intention spans continue

01:19:26.779 --> 01:19:31.279
to contract and get shorter, not because we want

01:19:31.279 --> 01:19:32.859
them, but because the world is saying, like,

01:19:32.859 --> 01:19:34.039
we're going to give you more and more and more

01:19:34.039 --> 01:19:37.180
and more. And music is codified into a really

01:19:37.180 --> 01:19:40.600
horrible word. I call it the C word, and that's

01:19:40.600 --> 01:19:45.640
content. And my music is not your content. My

01:19:45.640 --> 01:19:48.960
music is mine. Only I can do it, at least I believe

01:19:48.960 --> 01:19:53.189
so. And, you know, anyone's music is their art.

01:19:53.250 --> 01:19:56.029
It's no one's content. Content is a term utilized

01:19:56.029 --> 01:19:58.829
by the tech companies, by big tech to, you know,

01:19:58.829 --> 01:20:02.630
overlord all of the creative activities of a

01:20:02.630 --> 01:20:04.909
great many artists throughout human history.

01:20:05.109 --> 01:20:07.729
It's not content. It may look like content. It

01:20:07.729 --> 01:20:10.050
may feel that way. It's another video. It's another

01:20:10.050 --> 01:20:15.010
sound file. It's another stereo file uploaded

01:20:15.010 --> 01:20:18.500
onto a platform. And broadly, yeah, I understand

01:20:18.500 --> 01:20:21.619
what you mean, but that makes music and art sound

01:20:21.619 --> 01:20:23.520
like a potato chip. You know, it's just there

01:20:23.520 --> 01:20:26.359
and you can consume it to your heart's desire.

01:20:26.520 --> 01:20:29.260
And when you're done with it all, how satisfied

01:20:29.260 --> 01:20:33.520
are you? Maybe not too much. Well, thank you

01:20:33.520 --> 01:20:37.100
for answering all these questions. Some of them

01:20:37.100 --> 01:20:40.560
are tough, but I learned a lot. It's a masterclass.

01:20:40.659 --> 01:20:45.159
So tell us what you have coming up. like besides

01:20:45.159 --> 01:20:48.619
touring for the sapien but do you have any other

01:20:48.619 --> 01:20:53.000
uh exciting maybe performances or another new

01:20:53.000 --> 01:20:58.479
endeavor i do indeed yeah so um in april my guitar

01:20:58.479 --> 01:21:02.060
concerto will be premiered it's called congregate

01:21:02.060 --> 01:21:06.409
settings yep And that will be in Miami at the

01:21:06.409 --> 01:21:08.989
Frost School of Music. And it's a rather unorthodox

01:21:08.989 --> 01:21:12.170
concerto in a couple of different ways. It was

01:21:12.170 --> 01:21:14.109
conceived when I was at Interlochen. It was commissioned

01:21:14.109 --> 01:21:17.609
in conjunction with Interlochen, but we're ending

01:21:17.609 --> 01:21:22.770
up having the premiere elsewhere. And it's a

01:21:22.770 --> 01:21:27.829
two -section work, two -movement work. Two things

01:21:27.829 --> 01:21:30.189
that are different about it is that it's conceived

01:21:30.189 --> 01:21:32.409
one movement for the classical guitar and the

01:21:32.409 --> 01:21:34.470
second movement or second section for the electric

01:21:34.470 --> 01:21:38.550
guitar. And it is not a standard symphony orchestra,

01:21:38.789 --> 01:21:42.310
but a wind symphony. There's a particularly American

01:21:42.310 --> 01:21:45.270
type of ensemble, winds, brass, and percussion,

01:21:45.590 --> 01:21:48.590
and a very large one. So that will have its premiere

01:21:48.590 --> 01:21:52.149
in April in Miami at the Frost School of Music.

01:21:52.869 --> 01:21:56.890
And then I go to Tallinn, Estonia, where I'm

01:21:56.890 --> 01:22:00.609
curating the next Audio Klassik conference, which

01:22:00.609 --> 01:22:03.710
is a great gathering of labels and musicians

01:22:03.710 --> 01:22:07.409
and artists and artist managers. We're just about

01:22:07.409 --> 01:22:10.449
the most notable one in the world that I'm curating

01:22:10.449 --> 01:22:14.750
some of the discussions and panels around. So

01:22:14.750 --> 01:22:16.829
that's happening just coincidentally right around

01:22:16.829 --> 01:22:20.329
that same time. And then my next work is one

01:22:20.329 --> 01:22:23.550
that has been commissioned. by the great violinist

01:22:23.550 --> 01:22:27.170
Philippe Quint, who I've worked with in the past,

01:22:27.289 --> 01:22:29.869
who's commissioned a violin concerto from me,

01:22:29.930 --> 01:22:34.310
which is called Systems of Oppression. And we

01:22:34.310 --> 01:22:36.750
are in the fundraising stage now. We just had

01:22:36.750 --> 01:22:39.010
an appeal go out pretty widely to a group of

01:22:39.010 --> 01:22:42.569
people that we hope to raise funds to produce

01:22:42.569 --> 01:22:45.630
a recording of the work. We have commitments

01:22:45.630 --> 01:22:47.829
from three orchestras in three different countries.

01:22:48.390 --> 01:22:51.289
very excited about uh to give premieres in 27

01:22:51.289 --> 01:22:56.109
28 uh but we uh we're at the fundraising stage

01:22:56.109 --> 01:22:59.210
right now which is uh part of the sort of uh

01:22:59.210 --> 01:23:01.829
i don't know what you call it mechanics of being

01:23:01.829 --> 01:23:05.010
a composer sometimes uh dealing with a lot of

01:23:05.010 --> 01:23:08.109
this uh communication operational stuff yeah

01:23:08.109 --> 01:23:11.569
yeah yeah well that's exciting thank you yeah

01:23:11.569 --> 01:23:15.369
so for our listeners please go to seanhickey

01:23:15.369 --> 01:23:19.170
.com to learn more and also to get get the latest

01:23:19.170 --> 01:23:23.210
updates about Sean's work. Right. Thank you.

01:23:23.210 --> 01:23:26.649
Great. I appreciate it. So it's been a really,

01:23:26.710 --> 01:23:30.850
really wonderful conversation. And so but before

01:23:30.850 --> 01:23:32.810
I let you go, we have one more thing to do. It's

01:23:32.810 --> 01:23:35.829
called the piano part rapid fire questions. And

01:23:35.829 --> 01:23:38.029
I asked some questions. I wanted to answer them

01:23:38.029 --> 01:23:42.829
with the shortest response as possible. No explanation

01:23:42.829 --> 01:23:47.060
is necessary. Just a way to end our conversation

01:23:47.060 --> 01:23:50.279
on a positive note, I guess. I'll try to do short.

01:23:51.159 --> 01:23:55.359
All right. All right. Question number one. What

01:23:55.359 --> 01:24:00.659
is your comfort food? Pizza. Great. How do you

01:24:00.659 --> 01:24:04.300
like your coffee in the morning? Black. Cats

01:24:04.300 --> 01:24:09.420
or dogs? Dogs, though I have two cats. Sunrise

01:24:09.420 --> 01:24:13.720
or sunset? Sunsets. Summer or winter? Summer.

01:24:14.170 --> 01:24:16.649
Okay, level two. It's going to be a little harder.

01:24:17.449 --> 01:24:20.069
What skill have you always wanted to learn but

01:24:20.069 --> 01:24:28.550
haven't had a chance to? Skiing. What is your

01:24:28.550 --> 01:24:34.029
word or words to live by? Have a good time all

01:24:34.029 --> 01:24:41.260
the time. Nice. Favorite venue you have ever

01:24:41.260 --> 01:24:47.460
performed in or dream venue, maybe? That I've

01:24:47.460 --> 01:24:50.100
been in or had my work done in? Probably Whitmore

01:24:50.100 --> 01:24:54.119
Hall in London. What is the most important quality

01:24:54.119 --> 01:25:00.680
you look for in other people? Truth. Name a composer

01:25:00.680 --> 01:25:05.939
you wish more people knew about. Oh, boy. I could

01:25:05.939 --> 01:25:09.640
give a huge range of answers to that one. Picking

01:25:09.640 --> 01:25:12.960
just one, I would say, I don't know, since I

01:25:12.960 --> 01:25:15.420
talked about him earlier, Alberto Ginastera.

01:25:16.439 --> 01:25:19.300
Name one piece in your current playlist. I know

01:25:19.300 --> 01:25:23.140
it's hard. Ooh. Doesn't have to be classical.

01:25:24.819 --> 01:25:29.840
In my current playlist, lately the music of William

01:25:29.840 --> 01:25:36.939
Walton and also Brian Eno. Alright, so the last

01:25:36.939 --> 01:25:40.680
question. Fill in the blank. Music is blank.

01:25:41.659 --> 01:25:47.439
Salvation. Ah, beautiful. Sean, thank you so

01:25:47.439 --> 01:25:49.920
much for joining us today, for sharing your artistry,

01:25:49.920 --> 01:25:52.420
your journey, and thoughtful reflections, and

01:25:52.420 --> 01:25:55.199
congratulations once again for your magnificent

01:25:55.199 --> 01:25:58.180
Sapiens, A Brief History of Humankind for the

01:25:58.180 --> 01:26:02.060
Piano Solo. They are amazing pieces and I would

01:26:02.060 --> 01:26:05.520
love for my audience to check them out on SeanHickey

01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:08.920
.com or you can listen to them on everywhere

01:26:08.920 --> 01:26:13.859
on all major streaming platforms. And to everyone

01:26:13.859 --> 01:26:15.979
listening, thank you for spending this time with

01:26:15.979 --> 01:26:18.420
us. I hope this conversation stays with you and

01:26:18.420 --> 01:26:20.819
I'd love to hear what you thought of this episode.

01:26:20.960 --> 01:26:23.539
Feel free to leave a comment or share your thoughts

01:26:23.539 --> 01:26:27.079
on your social media page and tag us at The Piano

01:26:27.079 --> 01:26:30.270
Pod. We'll see you next time on the piano pod

01:26:30.270 --> 01:26:32.770
thank you sean thank you so much i really appreciate

01:26:32.770 --> 01:26:35.710
a great conversation oh wonderful conversation

01:26:35.710 --> 01:26:36.270
thank you