WEBVTT

00:00:05.950 --> 00:00:09.949
I think for me, I experience music as a powerful

00:00:09.949 --> 00:00:14.529
antidote to suffering and to ugliness. And I

00:00:14.529 --> 00:00:23.469
feel a strong desire to help create beauty. And

00:00:23.469 --> 00:00:27.969
as a pianist, I find beauty in variety, in new

00:00:27.969 --> 00:00:32.979
ways of seeing and hearing. and in exploring

00:00:32.979 --> 00:00:38.000
the full capabilities of our instrument. Playing

00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:40.740
new music for me is like being a part of a living

00:00:40.740 --> 00:00:46.000
process. Something new has to come out of something

00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:50.880
old. It's the only natural way and I think new

00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:54.920
music does this for me and I enjoy also the community

00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:59.119
of new music. It becomes less about us, I think,

00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:02.899
as performers and more about what we are presenting.

00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:09.079
Welcome to another episode of The Piano Pod,

00:01:09.159 --> 00:01:12.299
everyone. This season, we are exploring creativity

00:01:12.299 --> 00:01:15.120
and connection, highlighting artists who are

00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:18.180
reshaping what it means to create, teach, and

00:01:18.180 --> 00:01:20.640
inspire in the modern world of classical music.

00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:25.260
Today's guest... dr mirna lekic embodies that

00:01:25.260 --> 00:01:28.700
spirit through her multifaceted artistry born

00:01:28.700 --> 00:01:32.000
and raised in sarajevo and now based in new york

00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:36.040
city mirna is a pianist scholar and educator

00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:39.900
whose work bridges intercultural dialogue historical

00:01:39.900 --> 00:01:43.480
performance practice and contemporary creativity

00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:47.040
her performances have taken her to major venues

00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:51.310
worldwide from Carnegie Weill Hall to St. Martin

00:01:51.310 --> 00:01:55.049
in the Fields in London, and she is equally passionate

00:01:55.049 --> 00:01:57.670
about nurturing the next generation of musicians

00:01:57.670 --> 00:02:01.329
as a professor at Columbia University and Queensborough

00:02:01.329 --> 00:02:05.370
Community College. In recent years, Myrna has

00:02:05.370 --> 00:02:08.569
released acclaimed recordings available wherever

00:02:08.569 --> 00:02:12.509
you listen to music, earning praise for her intelligent,

00:02:12.669 --> 00:02:16.050
sensitive interpretations and recently being

00:02:16.050 --> 00:02:20.530
named a laureate of the American Prize piano

00:02:20.530 --> 00:02:24.909
competition. She also took part in 11 ,000 Strings

00:02:24.909 --> 00:02:28.370
at the Park Avenue Armory, a monumental sound

00:02:28.370 --> 00:02:31.250
installation that gathered musicians in the celebration

00:02:31.250 --> 00:02:34.789
of resonance, collaboration, and the collective

00:02:34.789 --> 00:02:38.169
voice of strings and piano. It's a project that

00:02:38.169 --> 00:02:41.069
truly reflects her commitment to the artistic

00:02:41.069 --> 00:02:44.469
intersections of sound, culture, and community.

00:02:45.740 --> 00:02:48.639
Before we dive in, thank you to our listeners

00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:52.020
for tuning in and supporting The Piano Pod. Your

00:02:52.020 --> 00:02:55.400
engagement, whether through sharing episodes,

00:02:55.740 --> 00:02:58.319
leaving a review, or simply listening, helps

00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:01.020
sustain this growing community of artists and

00:03:01.020 --> 00:03:03.639
thinkers who are redefining what it means to

00:03:03.639 --> 00:03:08.180
make music today. Here is Season 6, Episode 7

00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:12.180
of The Piano Pod with pianist, scholar, and educator

00:03:12.180 --> 00:03:21.650
Myrna Lekic. Please enjoy the show. You are listening

00:03:21.650 --> 00:03:23.969
to The Piano Pod, where we talk to the brightest

00:03:23.969 --> 00:03:26.590
minds in the industry about how they are bringing

00:03:26.590 --> 00:03:29.849
the piano into the future and thriving in a complex,

00:03:30.129 --> 00:03:37.189
ever -evolving world. Myrna, welcome to The Piano

00:03:37.189 --> 00:03:40.370
Pod, finally! Yay! Thank you so much for being

00:03:40.370 --> 00:03:43.800
here. Thank you. Thank you for having me and

00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:48.620
creating this piano pod community for us. Oh,

00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:50.919
thank you. Thank you for saying that. And, you

00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:53.639
know, I've been wanting to have you on the show

00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:56.740
for such a long time. And so I'm so happy that

00:03:56.740 --> 00:03:59.180
you're here. So for our listeners and viewers,

00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:01.840
Myrna and I actually go back a few years. We

00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:05.360
first met through. madeleine brucer's uh art

00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:08.080
of practicing workshops back in i think it was

00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:12.599
around 2020 2021 or so and now of course madeleine

00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:15.340
was one of our wonderful guests from season one

00:04:15.340 --> 00:04:18.100
actually and then miana also came to the piano

00:04:18.100 --> 00:04:21.860
part live event uh this past october which truly

00:04:22.459 --> 00:04:25.339
It meant so much to me. So, Mirna, you recently

00:04:25.339 --> 00:04:28.360
participated as one of the pianists in 11 ,000

00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:31.459
Strings at the Park Avenue Armory, a monumental

00:04:31.459 --> 00:04:34.079
large -scale installation by German composer

00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:38.240
George Friedrich Haas. And this North American

00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.180
premiere unfolded over several days and featured

00:04:41.180 --> 00:04:45.529
50 upright pianos. Wow. It was all microtuned

00:04:45.529 --> 00:04:47.430
and everything. But let's start with that. Can

00:04:47.430 --> 00:04:50.430
you tell us about the project, how you participated

00:04:50.430 --> 00:04:54.290
and what was it about and so on? Sure, sure.

00:04:54.430 --> 00:04:57.829
It was really a wonderful surprise and a gift.

00:04:57.910 --> 00:05:02.490
And the opportunity came unexpectedly late last

00:05:02.490 --> 00:05:06.810
spring when Park Avenue Armory disseminated a

00:05:06.810 --> 00:05:11.790
call for 50 pianists. So seeing this, I was intrigued

00:05:11.790 --> 00:05:15.769
and I submitted my resume and got to participate

00:05:15.769 --> 00:05:18.970
as a cover. So I attended the rehearsals and

00:05:18.970 --> 00:05:23.410
performed in three shows. And I was curious to

00:05:23.410 --> 00:05:26.610
hear what the composer, Georg Friedrich Haas,

00:05:26.670 --> 00:05:29.389
had done with this unique setup, which includes

00:05:29.389 --> 00:05:34.949
25 musicians of Ensemble Klangforum Wien. and

00:05:34.949 --> 00:05:39.490
those 50 upright pianos tuned two cents apart.

00:05:40.490 --> 00:05:45.290
So in a circular setup that was used in rehearsals

00:05:45.290 --> 00:05:48.230
and in performance, the piano that you are sitting

00:05:48.230 --> 00:05:53.029
at sounds two cents higher than the piano to

00:05:53.029 --> 00:05:56.370
your left. And all the pianos from piano zero

00:05:56.370 --> 00:05:59.910
to piano 49 covered a distance of a half step.

00:06:01.069 --> 00:06:05.490
And this allows for wonderful tuning that makes

00:06:05.490 --> 00:06:10.470
possible intervals and harmonies that are alive

00:06:10.470 --> 00:06:16.230
and sparkling. And one really feels alive and

00:06:16.230 --> 00:06:21.689
one with the sound. It reminded me that live

00:06:21.689 --> 00:06:26.839
performance cannot be replaced. For me personally,

00:06:27.060 --> 00:06:29.600
the piece itself felt like traveling through

00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:34.139
a forest of sound. At times, the pianos alone

00:06:34.139 --> 00:06:41.220
sound like a brass choir or like an organ. At

00:06:41.220 --> 00:06:46.120
other times, there are these fragile, glassy

00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:51.579
arpeggios that have a soothing effect. And other

00:06:51.579 --> 00:06:54.740
sections were more violent. So they would stir

00:06:54.740 --> 00:06:58.920
up so much sound, you would feel that it could

00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:03.220
sweep you off the ground. And it was interesting

00:07:03.220 --> 00:07:07.939
that all of this was created using acoustic instruments

00:07:07.939 --> 00:07:14.639
only. There was no synthesized sound. So both

00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:19.449
the creativity of the composition And the great

00:07:19.449 --> 00:07:22.230
work that the Armory did in advertising, you

00:07:22.230 --> 00:07:27.110
know, we played sold out shows of new microtonal

00:07:27.110 --> 00:07:33.230
music. That really made me feel hopeful about

00:07:33.230 --> 00:07:37.230
what we do. And I think given the times that

00:07:37.230 --> 00:07:41.310
we live in, it was really much needed and greatly

00:07:41.310 --> 00:07:46.009
appreciated. Wow. Oh, what an experience. I wanted

00:07:46.009 --> 00:07:48.569
to go, but the ticket went up so high that I

00:07:48.569 --> 00:07:52.009
couldn't in the end afford it. Yeah. But I saw

00:07:52.009 --> 00:07:55.089
the advertisement on social media a lot. And,

00:07:55.230 --> 00:07:58.089
you know, not only you, but also my colleagues,

00:07:58.290 --> 00:08:00.889
several of them participated. So I was like,

00:08:00.949 --> 00:08:03.449
wow, this would be a lot. I'm sure once in a

00:08:03.449 --> 00:08:06.670
lifetime opportunity, you know, that's wonderful.

00:08:06.970 --> 00:08:09.769
It was one of those rare moments when so many

00:08:09.769 --> 00:08:15.459
pianists get together. Right. That's right. We

00:08:15.459 --> 00:08:19.480
don't do ensemble so much. Wow, that's great.

00:08:19.860 --> 00:08:24.360
So I know, well, I mean, that whole event project

00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:28.180
sounds like something that, you know, how you

00:08:28.180 --> 00:08:30.740
approach with the artist, like imagination and

00:08:30.740 --> 00:08:33.600
openness and deep sense of connection to people.

00:08:33.700 --> 00:08:37.179
So now I usually start out with this prompt,

00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:40.240
this question for each conversation. So let's

00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:42.860
start with this. What would you say is the core?

00:08:43.580 --> 00:08:47.820
of your mission and your driving passion behind

00:08:47.820 --> 00:08:53.100
your work? Yes, I thought about that. And I remember

00:08:53.100 --> 00:08:56.879
thinking about this before I decided to follow

00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:01.220
a degree in music. But I think for me, I experienced

00:09:01.220 --> 00:09:06.659
music as a powerful antidote to suffering and

00:09:06.659 --> 00:09:10.460
to ugliness. And I feel a strong desire to help

00:09:10.460 --> 00:09:16.169
create beauty. or at least not stand in its way,

00:09:16.309 --> 00:09:21.929
to allow or help the conditions that allow beauty

00:09:21.929 --> 00:09:26.250
to emerge and to exist. So I strive for this

00:09:26.250 --> 00:09:31.809
in life and in work in general. And as a pianist,

00:09:31.809 --> 00:09:37.789
I find beauty in variety, in new ways of seeing

00:09:37.789 --> 00:09:42.970
and hearing. in exploring the full capabilities

00:09:42.970 --> 00:09:47.549
of our instrument. So this has led me to seek

00:09:47.549 --> 00:09:51.610
out repertoire with a variety of compositional

00:09:51.610 --> 00:09:54.870
and performance techniques, and also to consider

00:09:54.870 --> 00:09:57.809
music at the intersection of different traditions.

00:09:58.889 --> 00:10:03.289
In the process, I feel that I deepen my relationship

00:10:03.289 --> 00:10:09.379
to the instrument, to myself, and also to our

00:10:09.379 --> 00:10:14.860
shared musical language thank you for saying

00:10:14.860 --> 00:10:18.080
that now i was going to talk about your background

00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:21.860
first but because you mentioned about The sound

00:10:21.860 --> 00:10:24.299
and also, you know, you mentioned something about

00:10:24.299 --> 00:10:29.539
variety. So let's start with your album, Mirage,

00:10:29.659 --> 00:10:35.580
which came out in 2023, a captivating exploring

00:10:35.580 --> 00:10:39.139
of sonic illusions and transformations. And,

00:10:39.179 --> 00:10:42.360
you know, the album celebrates the piano's extraordinary

00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:45.590
ability, like you said, to... you know, imitate,

00:10:46.029 --> 00:10:49.269
echo, and morph into other instruments. Yeah,

00:10:49.309 --> 00:10:53.370
I can't believe it was a piano album. Some of

00:10:53.370 --> 00:10:56.009
the pieces you hear didn't sound like a traditional

00:10:56.009 --> 00:10:58.710
piano music. So, featuring works by familiar

00:10:58.710 --> 00:11:02.250
composers such as, you know, Debussy, Prokofiev,

00:11:02.250 --> 00:11:05.750
Godowski also, and then though you chose some

00:11:05.750 --> 00:11:08.950
of their lesser -known pieces, as well as 20th,

00:11:09.070 --> 00:11:14.129
21st century composers like Alan Hovhannes? Hovhannes,

00:11:14.129 --> 00:11:16.789
yeah. And then also, how do you pronounce this

00:11:16.789 --> 00:11:22.210
Azerbaijani composer? Frangiz Ali Zadeh. Oh,

00:11:22.409 --> 00:11:27.470
wonderful piece. Music for piano. It's incredible.

00:11:27.789 --> 00:11:32.649
So can you maybe take us, take our listeners

00:11:32.649 --> 00:11:35.250
on a fascinating journey where the piano becomes

00:11:35.250 --> 00:11:40.450
both traveler and polyglot. Yes, that was the

00:11:40.450 --> 00:11:43.889
idea, right? It mirrors some of my life experiences,

00:11:44.169 --> 00:11:48.830
right? And oftentimes when I program, I deal

00:11:48.830 --> 00:11:52.870
with this aspect of variety thematically, right?

00:11:52.929 --> 00:11:56.669
So when I worked on my first album, Masks, it

00:11:56.669 --> 00:12:01.370
combined lesser known works, 20th century works,

00:12:01.470 --> 00:12:06.649
and revolved around this ballet that Debussy

00:12:06.649 --> 00:12:11.169
wrote for... children dancers or marionettes

00:12:11.169 --> 00:12:14.850
called La Boîte à Joujoux or The Toil Box. And

00:12:14.850 --> 00:12:17.750
then it included pieces inspired by other masked

00:12:17.750 --> 00:12:22.929
characters. And so Mirage kind of grew out of

00:12:22.929 --> 00:12:29.070
that. It's more of a multicultural tapestry than

00:12:29.070 --> 00:12:34.370
masks. And yes, it focuses on piano's imitative

00:12:34.370 --> 00:12:39.139
capabilities. But I think More abstractly, both

00:12:39.139 --> 00:12:44.820
of these albums explore the nature of adapting

00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:49.120
and crossing boundaries. And so you have these

00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:54.399
masks, languages, behaviors we acquire as we

00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:58.600
navigate different environments. So I was curious

00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:03.200
to see how our instrument could do that. I'm

00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:06.899
not sure how it all began, but it started during

00:13:06.899 --> 00:13:10.139
the pandemic. I was thinking about what to do

00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:14.840
next. And I had played some of this music before.

00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:18.899
For example, there is a piece inspired, or that

00:13:18.899 --> 00:13:22.639
sounds to me like bells very much, by Ukrainian

00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:27.179
composer Igor Shamov. That was the first, let's

00:13:27.179 --> 00:13:30.649
say, contemporary piece that I played. At Eastman,

00:13:30.690 --> 00:13:33.710
they had this requirement for your senior recital

00:13:33.710 --> 00:13:38.669
to include a piece written after 1964. And that's

00:13:38.669 --> 00:13:41.669
what I had learned back then. So I kind of went

00:13:41.669 --> 00:13:46.190
back to that. And then I had played several compositions

00:13:46.190 --> 00:13:50.230
by Frangiz Alizadeh, whose music I really love.

00:13:50.450 --> 00:13:54.830
I recorded one of her chamber works on another

00:13:54.830 --> 00:14:00.549
album called Eastern Currents. And I looked,

00:14:00.750 --> 00:14:05.570
you know, I searched for works that could fit

00:14:05.570 --> 00:14:11.429
this theme. So I have, I was familiar, for example,

00:14:11.649 --> 00:14:17.029
Martin Scherzinger is a composer who was my music

00:14:17.029 --> 00:14:20.690
history teacher at Eastman. And I had listened

00:14:20.690 --> 00:14:24.250
to some of his extraordinary music. He is a scholar

00:14:24.250 --> 00:14:28.250
of African music, so his piece imitates the sound

00:14:28.250 --> 00:14:34.529
of Mbira. Then there is another recent composition

00:14:34.529 --> 00:14:38.029
by Natalie Draper called Fractured Bells that

00:14:38.029 --> 00:14:42.309
goes into the bell category. And the album is

00:14:42.309 --> 00:14:46.690
organized into chapters of sorts. So you have

00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:50.779
As if you are traveling, you know, from the east

00:14:50.779 --> 00:14:55.940
to the west and then south. So there's some Spanish

00:14:55.940 --> 00:15:00.840
music. There is Armenian tradition. And Alan

00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:04.100
Hovhannes, I was not familiar with his works

00:15:04.100 --> 00:15:08.080
much. But once you start reading about him, this

00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:11.700
was his life's work. Writing music that crossed

00:15:11.700 --> 00:15:18.080
cultural boundaries. What else is on the album?

00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:20.659
There's a short piece by Prokofiev imitating

00:15:20.659 --> 00:15:25.100
harp. Yes. Obviously, there's cowl, his famous

00:15:25.100 --> 00:15:29.799
Aeolian harp. Oh, yeah. That was incredible.

00:15:59.500 --> 00:16:03.179
I think this was a very exciting, very interesting

00:16:03.179 --> 00:16:08.340
project for me. And even though it might seem

00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:12.879
random, all the pieces were really chosen as

00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:15.840
if it's a travelogue. Maybe at a time when I

00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.159
thought of it in pandemic, we couldn't do much

00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:21.600
traveling. So it was a way to experience that.

00:16:22.340 --> 00:16:24.980
Oh, so you wanted to include compositions of

00:16:24.980 --> 00:16:29.250
composers from different regions, I guess. Yeah.

00:16:29.250 --> 00:16:32.529
Oh, wonderful. Yeah, I totally enjoy the music

00:16:32.529 --> 00:16:35.429
for piano, the first one. You were playing by

00:16:35.429 --> 00:16:37.769
yourself, right? I was playing, yeah, that's

00:16:37.769 --> 00:16:41.269
a solo piano piece and it requires minimal preparation.

00:16:41.710 --> 00:16:45.590
She asks that you place a glass bead necklace

00:16:45.590 --> 00:16:50.419
onto the lower strings of the piano. And the

00:16:50.419 --> 00:16:54.019
musical language blends traditional Azerbaijani

00:16:54.019 --> 00:16:57.240
Mugham music and Western classical tradition

00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:01.360
in which the composer was trained. So the scales

00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:08.240
are drawn or constructed like that. And the necklace

00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:12.660
helps imitate the sound of Azerbaijani tar, the

00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:15.940
string instrument. So you get these overtones.

00:17:17.630 --> 00:17:20.869
where the effect comes from it's not out of tune

00:17:20.869 --> 00:17:25.029
piano no but i at the beginning i thought you

00:17:25.029 --> 00:17:27.710
were this was oh maybe she is doing a duet with

00:17:27.710 --> 00:17:30.049
someone some some this traditional instrument

00:17:30.049 --> 00:17:32.670
or something like that it sounded like it you

00:17:32.670 --> 00:17:36.369
know everything is played on keys and it's it's

00:17:36.369 --> 00:17:39.470
that simple glass i went through several necklaces

00:17:39.470 --> 00:17:44.240
trying to trying to find the sound that gave

00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:46.539
it that shimmering effect so you know the size

00:17:46.539 --> 00:17:50.960
of the bead mattered but that is the only preparation

00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:53.759
that you have. I had worked with my husband who

00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:59.019
does some visual arts as well on presenting it

00:17:59.019 --> 00:18:05.000
with a video live video and we would present

00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:08.700
some pieces more as a narrative and others were

00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:12.059
just a series of images and I think that also

00:18:12.059 --> 00:18:39.099
helped kind of unite the whole. But one that

00:18:39.099 --> 00:18:43.279
inspired you to Maybe you mentioned already,

00:18:43.420 --> 00:18:46.779
but curate this particular program, you know,

00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:51.599
because I hear folk music, gamelan to, you know,

00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:56.859
folk motives to, yeah, different musical languages

00:18:56.859 --> 00:19:00.140
and really non -Western traditions. Were you

00:19:00.140 --> 00:19:02.880
always interested in that sort of folk music

00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:06.480
that is, you know, scales are not in the traditional

00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:13.029
classical, I guess, palette or sound? Well, I

00:19:13.029 --> 00:19:17.170
think there are two parts to that, two ways that

00:19:17.170 --> 00:19:21.029
I can answer that. One has to do with this desire

00:19:21.029 --> 00:19:24.589
to seek balance after being so thoroughly immersed

00:19:24.589 --> 00:19:29.180
in Western classical tradition. And perhaps I

00:19:29.180 --> 00:19:32.579
was seeking that balance because I grew up with

00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:35.500
a lot of folk music, listening to folk music.

00:19:35.660 --> 00:19:40.099
So when I was a child in Bosnia or in former

00:19:40.099 --> 00:19:43.460
Yugoslavia, that is something that was really

00:19:43.460 --> 00:19:49.920
easily accessible. And there was a great variety

00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:54.259
of folk music. that region, or there still is.

00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:59.180
You can find things like Bosnian sevdah music,

00:19:59.460 --> 00:20:04.859
which is something that grew out of the Ottoman

00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:11.039
period, but in spirit is very similar to Portuguese

00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:15.839
fado. You know, it's intense emotionally. It

00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:20.700
speaks of love and longing and loss. And then

00:20:20.700 --> 00:20:25.720
you have Multi -part a cappella singing from

00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:30.460
Dalmatia, which is the Croatian coast, which

00:20:30.460 --> 00:20:36.539
has these Italianate harmonies and functions

00:20:36.539 --> 00:20:39.160
somewhat in like a call and response fashion.

00:20:40.900 --> 00:20:46.819
Then you might have Macedonian dances and songs.

00:20:47.019 --> 00:20:51.720
And I think maybe here it will be. For the listeners,

00:20:51.819 --> 00:20:55.700
it's kind of similar to Bulgarian music. And

00:20:55.700 --> 00:20:59.940
you might even have epics, like long epics that

00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:03.240
are accompanied on a single string instrument

00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:07.119
called gusle. So, you know, you hear all this

00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:11.099
growing up. And there was a lively pop and rock

00:21:11.099 --> 00:21:15.859
scene as well, especially in Sarajevo. So it's

00:21:15.859 --> 00:21:19.670
there. And somehow I think, you know, I think

00:21:19.670 --> 00:21:23.109
when you receive formal training, at least the

00:21:23.109 --> 00:21:26.470
way it was in Yugoslavia, it is rooted in Western

00:21:26.470 --> 00:21:30.269
classical tradition. And then as you step into

00:21:30.269 --> 00:21:33.910
the real world, you look for those things, those

00:21:33.910 --> 00:21:37.150
other things that are also part of you. Last

00:21:37.150 --> 00:21:42.130
year, I did a presentation at Columbia for a

00:21:42.130 --> 00:21:46.529
class. And one of the students, it was a presentation

00:21:46.529 --> 00:21:49.630
on prepared piano and in particular, the music

00:21:49.630 --> 00:21:53.710
of Ali Zadeh, because another work of hers called

00:21:53.710 --> 00:21:57.349
Three Watercolors that I had played involves

00:21:57.349 --> 00:22:01.809
some actual preparation of the strings. And one

00:22:01.809 --> 00:22:05.569
of the students asked me, how do I or how did

00:22:05.569 --> 00:22:10.589
I deal with phrasing in this piece? And, you

00:22:10.589 --> 00:22:12.710
know, I stood there for a moment a little bit

00:22:12.710 --> 00:22:15.910
because I had dealt with it completely intuitively.

00:22:16.509 --> 00:22:20.430
And there is this is not eight bar classical

00:22:20.430 --> 00:22:29.009
syntax. It is very much, you know, kind of non

00:22:29.009 --> 00:22:34.609
-Western. It seems flexible. So I think I subconsciously

00:22:34.609 --> 00:22:38.519
approached it just as I would a folk tune. And

00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:41.720
that's what I told the student. It really came

00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:45.220
just intuitively, and I felt connected to this

00:22:45.220 --> 00:22:47.740
music. Now, when I look back, I think maybe this

00:22:47.740 --> 00:22:52.079
is the reason, having grown up with folk music

00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:57.380
that in some ways was similar. Yeah, but to put

00:22:57.380 --> 00:23:00.119
that into this one album, it takes a lot of work

00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:04.940
and thoughts, you know, thoughtfulness. And so,

00:23:05.019 --> 00:23:09.039
but... Yeah, I really, I think I listened to

00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:12.259
a few rounds because once you start it, like

00:23:12.259 --> 00:23:14.880
you have to really go all the way to the end.

00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.019
Otherwise, yeah, I mean, each piece is beautiful,

00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:23.599
but yeah. And I like the piece, Guero, Guero.

00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:28.079
Oh, yes, yes. Guero is on it. That was, you know,

00:23:28.099 --> 00:23:30.240
chosen out of my desire to learn a completely

00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:36.630
new language. So that piece involves. you know,

00:23:36.630 --> 00:23:40.470
sliding and across the keys, kind of swiping

00:23:40.470 --> 00:23:44.430
in different fashions. The score, I wish I had

00:23:44.430 --> 00:23:48.529
it nearby here, but the score looks nothing like

00:23:48.529 --> 00:23:52.490
traditional notation. It's a series of gestures

00:23:52.490 --> 00:23:57.269
that are explained. So the challenge is finding

00:23:57.269 --> 00:24:03.420
direction. And how do you build a crescendo in

00:24:03.420 --> 00:24:05.640
these gestures that you are not familiar with?

00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:13.039
How do you construct the story? So that was a

00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:17.119
wonderful challenge. And it takes patience at

00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:22.220
first with new music in general, I think, but

00:24:22.220 --> 00:24:24.559
especially when it's an entirely new language.

00:24:57.259 --> 00:25:00.440
classical musician classically trained we don't

00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:03.220
think about sound so much surprisingly you know

00:25:03.220 --> 00:25:07.200
like i've been doing this podcast for a while

00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:10.220
and then when i speak with contemporary composers

00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:14.400
that's when i realize oh yeah we are actually

00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:18.400
sound we deal with sound but we think of tone

00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.680
we think about phrases just like your student

00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:25.980
said you think about rhythms But sound is a very

00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:29.380
different thing. And then, yeah, but the album,

00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:33.880
throughout the album, as if this was not performed

00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:38.019
on the regular piano, like there was like a sound

00:25:38.019 --> 00:25:40.740
engineer almost creating the sound. You know,

00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:44.440
I felt that way. Amazing. Yeah, that was the

00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:48.240
challenge was to select pieces where no electronics

00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:52.029
or technology was needed. Right. That's kind

00:25:52.029 --> 00:25:55.589
of the challenge I posed to myself. Partly because

00:25:55.589 --> 00:26:01.549
I'm not so good with these. But with new technology.

00:26:01.809 --> 00:26:05.990
But because this fascinates me. How do you do

00:26:05.990 --> 00:26:08.970
something with just given this instrument? Right.

00:26:09.049 --> 00:26:12.210
Yeah. And I think Alizade piece was the only

00:26:12.210 --> 00:26:15.210
one that had the necklace. Right. That was the

00:26:15.210 --> 00:26:19.569
only preparation. really yeah yeah but even like

00:26:19.569 --> 00:26:22.710
the compositions like you know uh fractured bells

00:26:22.710 --> 00:26:26.809
it did sound like bells you know it's a beautiful

00:26:26.809 --> 00:26:29.529
that and that's that's traditional rotation and

00:26:29.529 --> 00:26:33.589
traditional performance technique uh for for

00:26:33.589 --> 00:26:37.230
my audience please uh that name of the album

00:26:37.230 --> 00:26:41.910
is called mirage and you can listen to this album

00:26:41.910 --> 00:26:47.559
on wherever you listen to the music spotify itunes

00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:51.839
and all that right yeah great now is there anything

00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:54.940
else you want to add to this album about this

00:26:54.940 --> 00:26:57.980
album yeah i think the listener will decide how

00:26:57.980 --> 00:27:01.200
effective these imitations are you know and what

00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:06.519
works and maybe think about why or why not you

00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:09.619
you talk about promoting and preserving cultural

00:27:09.619 --> 00:27:14.119
diversity through music and It was really there.

00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:17.099
The word culture itself carried so many layers

00:27:17.099 --> 00:27:21.460
like language, faith, food, upbringing, climate,

00:27:21.660 --> 00:27:25.099
geopolitical nonsense sometimes or many times,

00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:29.019
and to even daily rituals. So here we are both

00:27:29.019 --> 00:27:33.900
living in a city of 8 .5 million people. We are

00:27:33.900 --> 00:27:37.440
surrounded by countless versions of cultures.

00:27:39.230 --> 00:27:42.410
I find that not everyone is truly cultural. You

00:27:42.410 --> 00:27:44.670
know what I mean? Like where we might live side

00:27:44.670 --> 00:27:47.029
by side with people from every background, but

00:27:47.029 --> 00:27:50.470
often culture is defined by zip code, lifestyle

00:27:50.470 --> 00:27:52.809
or social circles. You know what I mean? Yeah.

00:27:52.869 --> 00:27:55.410
So when you think about culture and being cultural,

00:27:55.690 --> 00:27:58.170
what does that mean to you? How do you connect

00:27:58.170 --> 00:28:00.430
to your own heritage? We're going to talk about

00:28:00.430 --> 00:28:03.230
your heritage, but while staying open to the

00:28:03.230 --> 00:28:06.869
diversity that surrounds you, how does the philosophy

00:28:06.869 --> 00:28:10.880
inform the way you make? or teach music? Well,

00:28:10.980 --> 00:28:13.859
yeah, you speak about people kind of being separate,

00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:18.579
right? And I think for us as artists, we aim

00:28:18.579 --> 00:28:24.059
to cross boundaries, right? I think that's just

00:28:24.059 --> 00:28:28.200
part of being an artist. And so when we think

00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:30.880
of cultural diversity, like you said, it can

00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:34.619
look like a place like New York City. It can

00:28:34.619 --> 00:28:38.589
also look like a single institution. or a single

00:28:38.589 --> 00:28:42.710
teacher who chooses to educate through the lens

00:28:42.710 --> 00:28:47.569
of diversity. And I think that particular one,

00:28:47.650 --> 00:28:51.509
the last one, is especially important because

00:28:51.509 --> 00:28:56.109
it affects young people and it takes place in

00:28:56.109 --> 00:28:58.869
a school setting, which is one of those few places

00:28:58.869 --> 00:29:03.869
where we mix, right? Where we can cross the fences

00:29:03.869 --> 00:29:08.029
that... keep us apart, whether it is educational,

00:29:08.369 --> 00:29:16.430
cultural, economic. And I think when you think

00:29:16.430 --> 00:29:18.990
about a single institution or an organization

00:29:18.990 --> 00:29:24.829
doing work, cultural diversity also exists within

00:29:24.829 --> 00:29:27.529
Western classical music, right? But it needs

00:29:27.529 --> 00:29:31.349
to be more fully acknowledged. So when I work

00:29:31.349 --> 00:29:37.200
with Nana Ogwo and We put together programs for

00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:40.839
the new music series run by the Leschetizky Association

00:29:40.839 --> 00:29:47.859
here in the city. We keep in mind this diversity,

00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:52.740
but we do not advertise the concerts as diverse

00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:57.660
per se, because we consider this the norm, right?

00:29:58.339 --> 00:30:02.880
And one other way that I think of diversity is

00:30:03.690 --> 00:30:08.670
through our curricula, for example. This past

00:30:08.670 --> 00:30:13.329
June, I attended a conference at NYU that was

00:30:13.329 --> 00:30:16.789
dedicated to the pedagogy of music theory, including

00:30:16.789 --> 00:30:20.849
global traditions, popular music, underrepresented

00:30:20.849 --> 00:30:26.369
composers. And at one point, we examined seven

00:30:26.369 --> 00:30:33.779
college theory textbooks. 99 % of the material

00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:38.099
covered Western classical music, and very specifically

00:30:38.099 --> 00:30:41.559
from the second half of the 18th through the

00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:44.900
19th century. And there was a heavy emphasis

00:30:44.900 --> 00:30:50.279
on harmony. So I think this can be a little problematic,

00:30:50.359 --> 00:30:54.640
as wonderful as it is to delve deeply into something,

00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:59.420
because it can leave us isolated once we leave.

00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:06.519
conservatories. And then we, my colleagues and

00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:12.660
I, we need to self -educate and keep a broader

00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:19.460
musical worldview in mind. But for me, cultural

00:31:19.460 --> 00:31:22.079
diversity is always driven by this motivation

00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:27.599
to discover something new and interesting. But

00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:30.980
tell me a little bit about you use the word isolated,

00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:35.200
feeling isolated. Did you feel that after you

00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:39.960
graduated and feels like, oh, I'm just curious

00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:45.400
about that? Yes, I think. Well, yes, I did because

00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:48.480
of the environment in which I taught. Right.

00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:54.170
So you imagine. that you would be perhaps just

00:31:54.170 --> 00:31:57.450
teaching piano lessons in a school, much like

00:31:57.450 --> 00:32:01.890
the one that many of us would have attended.

00:32:02.490 --> 00:32:05.630
But my first job was at Queensborough Community

00:32:05.630 --> 00:32:09.910
College. And I've been there for, I think, like

00:32:09.910 --> 00:32:14.750
15 years now. So I started working part -time

00:32:14.750 --> 00:32:19.930
as an adjunct. And then in 2016, I got a full

00:32:19.930 --> 00:32:24.410
-time position there. And so this is a community

00:32:24.410 --> 00:32:27.670
college setting. It was it has been a wonderfully

00:32:27.670 --> 00:32:31.309
supportive community, which is why I've stayed

00:32:31.309 --> 00:32:35.490
for so long. And also, it's very much representative

00:32:35.490 --> 00:32:40.049
of Queens. I think there are over 100 languages

00:32:40.049 --> 00:32:43.609
spoken there. Yeah. In the bar of Queens. Right.

00:32:43.710 --> 00:32:48.069
Yeah. And then in addition to this. variety.

00:32:48.349 --> 00:32:50.890
There was the variety of what I was assigned

00:32:50.890 --> 00:32:55.549
to teach. So the experience, our primary experience

00:32:55.549 --> 00:32:59.609
is with one -on -one lessons, but there I teach

00:32:59.609 --> 00:33:03.569
class piano, introduction to music. These are

00:33:03.569 --> 00:33:11.190
courses for non -majors and a class called musicianship,

00:33:11.190 --> 00:33:14.700
which is Let's say music theory fundamentals

00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:19.920
with some basic piano and ear training. So I

00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:23.819
think in a setting like that, you are forced

00:33:23.819 --> 00:33:27.539
to adapt because you need to reach your audience.

00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:33.079
And in this case, the audience could be students

00:33:33.079 --> 00:33:36.420
who have had lots of experience and students

00:33:36.420 --> 00:33:40.380
who are entirely new to music. And you need to

00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:44.380
reach them. through some common language or through

00:33:44.380 --> 00:33:46.700
something that they have never seen and they

00:33:46.700 --> 00:33:52.440
are oddly fascinated. So I think this kind of

00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:57.240
adapting has been a trademark of my teaching

00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:03.059
because every year I had revised what I taught

00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:06.660
there, depending on what I saw and how the students

00:34:06.660 --> 00:34:13.699
responded. Wow. Your students are lucky to have

00:34:13.699 --> 00:34:15.880
you. Yeah. Thank you. I want to take classes

00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:21.219
from you now. So then let's talk about. Your

00:34:21.219 --> 00:34:24.159
personal story, as much as you can. I want to

00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:28.139
hear your story of resilience and reinvention,

00:34:28.219 --> 00:34:30.920
you know, crossing borders, not only geographically,

00:34:30.980 --> 00:34:34.340
but musically. You've shared that your multicultural

00:34:34.340 --> 00:34:38.320
background and experience as a war refugee from

00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:42.639
Bosnia and Herzegovina deeply inform your commitment

00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:46.019
to cultural diversity through music. You were

00:34:46.019 --> 00:34:49.489
born and raised in Sarajevo, right? Yes. During

00:34:49.489 --> 00:34:54.730
the incredible turbulent time in the 1990s. So

00:34:54.730 --> 00:34:58.349
am I correct? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Could you

00:34:58.349 --> 00:35:00.929
take us back to that period? I mean, not to dwell

00:35:00.929 --> 00:35:04.630
on the hardship or anything, but to help us understand

00:35:04.630 --> 00:35:08.309
what it was like to live through that time. Because

00:35:08.309 --> 00:35:10.670
I was on the other end, right? I was watching

00:35:10.670 --> 00:35:15.840
the news every day. about that so and then you

00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:18.239
know you pack up everything and to begin again

00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:21.239
in a different country and then how those experiences

00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:24.780
shaped your outlook as an artist and human being

00:35:24.780 --> 00:35:29.719
yeah well my first piano lessons took place in

00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:32.719
the primary music school in Sarajevo and I think

00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:37.639
that was when I was eight or so because one could

00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:41.420
attend a regular school and a music school where

00:35:41.420 --> 00:35:43.820
you would go twice a week for piano and solfège.

00:35:44.119 --> 00:35:47.099
And like all education in former Yugoslavia,

00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:51.400
this was free education. So that's something

00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:57.280
that I have come to realize the value of, you

00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:01.739
know, after coming to the United States. And

00:36:01.739 --> 00:36:08.260
I don't come from a family of musicians. So studying

00:36:08.260 --> 00:36:13.280
piano gave me a sense of independence and a sense

00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:18.619
of identity. Then four years after that, everything

00:36:18.619 --> 00:36:24.400
was interrupted with the start of war. And Yugoslavia

00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:29.389
was no more. My city came under... what would

00:36:29.389 --> 00:36:33.789
be the longest siege in modern European history.

00:36:34.530 --> 00:36:38.090
Like three, four years, right? That's right.

00:36:38.210 --> 00:36:43.989
Longer, actually. So my mom, my brother and I

00:36:43.989 --> 00:36:48.929
became war refugees at that time. Most of my

00:36:48.929 --> 00:36:52.449
family stayed behind, including my dad, who was

00:36:52.449 --> 00:36:56.880
able to join us later. when we arrived to the

00:36:56.880 --> 00:37:02.460
United States, and I was 13 at that time. The

00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:06.820
town that we resettled in, Glen Cove on Long

00:37:06.820 --> 00:37:10.679
Island, is one of the most diverse places on

00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:14.199
Long Island. So that kind of fits into the story,

00:37:14.300 --> 00:37:17.320
you know, coming from Sarajevo, which was very

00:37:17.320 --> 00:37:22.199
diverse in its own way, to Glen Cove, and having

00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:26.739
one of these teachers like The one that I mentioned

00:37:26.739 --> 00:37:29.440
to you when speaking about cultural diversity

00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:33.619
in high school there, who introduced us to a

00:37:33.619 --> 00:37:37.260
lot of things that New York City had to offer

00:37:37.260 --> 00:37:41.880
and also introduced me to American music. And

00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:46.719
then, of course, later I went on to Eastman.

00:37:46.780 --> 00:37:50.420
So I spent a little time in Rochester and I returned

00:37:50.420 --> 00:37:53.980
to New York for my graduate studies. So oddly

00:37:53.980 --> 00:37:56.909
enough. All of my time in the U .S. has been

00:37:56.909 --> 00:38:04.550
spent in New York State. Wow, okay. But luckily

00:38:04.550 --> 00:38:09.349
for me, through the turmoil of these war years

00:38:09.349 --> 00:38:13.429
and refugee life, the way that my family maintained

00:38:13.429 --> 00:38:18.550
a sense of stability and normalcy was by helping

00:38:18.550 --> 00:38:21.760
me continue. music studies in whatever way that

00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:24.659
was possible, whether that was in former Yugoslavia

00:38:24.659 --> 00:38:31.400
or when we resettled in New York. And this is

00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:36.139
when I really benefited from music and realized

00:38:36.139 --> 00:38:40.139
its power and its value, because many people

00:38:40.139 --> 00:38:42.980
would consider music study unnecessary and completely

00:38:42.980 --> 00:38:48.300
impractical, especially for a refugee. But my

00:38:48.300 --> 00:38:52.079
mother understood that for me and for my brother,

00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:55.199
who also played, music was a healing presence.

00:38:55.579 --> 00:39:01.219
It was a steady friend and a steady ground in

00:39:01.219 --> 00:39:04.699
new environments. And practically, that meant

00:39:04.699 --> 00:39:08.059
making hard decisions about where you put your

00:39:08.059 --> 00:39:12.219
resources. But today, when I play and when I

00:39:12.219 --> 00:39:17.570
teach, I am very much aware. of this important

00:39:17.570 --> 00:39:21.710
connection that one can have to music. I'm aware

00:39:21.710 --> 00:39:26.989
of the sacrifice or rather devotion would be

00:39:26.989 --> 00:39:31.170
a better word that music study demands and of

00:39:31.170 --> 00:39:34.710
the role it can play as a lifeline and as a source

00:39:34.710 --> 00:39:39.150
of support for someone else. That's a powerful

00:39:39.150 --> 00:39:42.750
statement, especially someone like you who went

00:39:42.750 --> 00:39:46.300
through that time period of your life and such

00:39:46.300 --> 00:39:50.960
a such a critical age people say right 12 13

00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:54.599
right and made that move and family moved out

00:39:54.599 --> 00:40:00.619
of oppressions so it's clear that you have transformed

00:40:00.619 --> 00:40:03.719
your life experience into a profound creative

00:40:03.719 --> 00:40:07.079
force how do you your memories and heritage continue

00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.280
to shape your artistry the way you play and teach

00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:15.210
and connect with audiences well I think the important

00:40:15.210 --> 00:40:18.489
thing is always to remain true to yourself, to

00:40:18.489 --> 00:40:21.530
be honest to yourself. And I encourage my students

00:40:21.530 --> 00:40:26.510
to do the same. So you do this by selecting repertoire

00:40:26.510 --> 00:40:32.170
that you can connect deeply with. And I also

00:40:32.170 --> 00:40:36.349
aim for this sincerity in the delivery of repertoire.

00:40:36.909 --> 00:40:45.769
So I think. In one way, the heritage and all

00:40:45.769 --> 00:40:49.050
this innovation that comes are just a natural

00:40:49.050 --> 00:40:52.630
process for me. That's how I have experienced

00:40:52.630 --> 00:41:17.429
it. Every artist encountered some kind of struggle

00:41:17.429 --> 00:41:20.510
at different points in their growth. Were there

00:41:20.510 --> 00:41:23.130
moments in your early training, whether physical,

00:41:23.289 --> 00:41:26.670
artistic, or philosophical, that you only later

00:41:26.670 --> 00:41:29.849
understood as struggles that shaped the direction

00:41:29.849 --> 00:41:35.730
you eventually took? I'm not sure that it was

00:41:35.730 --> 00:41:43.349
a struggle for me in that sense. For me, it always

00:41:43.349 --> 00:41:45.769
seemed like a series of things that needed to

00:41:45.769 --> 00:41:49.269
get done. And if this is what was presented to

00:41:49.269 --> 00:41:53.110
me, that's what I learned. So it only came later

00:41:53.110 --> 00:41:57.210
with reflection that I decided to seek out some

00:41:57.210 --> 00:42:00.510
new things. And it's only really now that I'm

00:42:00.510 --> 00:42:03.670
also learning, like you say. Are there different

00:42:03.670 --> 00:42:05.690
scales? Are there different things? There was

00:42:05.690 --> 00:42:08.650
a book I discovered called Other Classical Music.

00:42:09.929 --> 00:42:13.449
Oh, I want to read it. Other Classical Music.

00:42:13.550 --> 00:42:18.969
I have to look for it. So, you know, this exploration

00:42:18.969 --> 00:42:26.130
continues. But, you know, some of the struggle,

00:42:26.309 --> 00:42:29.210
for example, can come from the fact I have a

00:42:29.210 --> 00:42:33.210
relatively small hand. And, you know, if you

00:42:33.210 --> 00:42:37.449
are studying with people who come from traditional

00:42:37.449 --> 00:42:41.929
Rachmaninoff and Liszt, you know, in some way,

00:42:41.949 --> 00:42:44.550
yeah, that is a struggle. I mean, you keep doing

00:42:44.550 --> 00:42:48.530
what, you know, what is assigned. I will never

00:42:48.530 --> 00:42:51.730
forget the moment I was at Cornell at one of

00:42:51.730 --> 00:42:54.329
Malcolm Bilson's programs there in the summer.

00:42:54.730 --> 00:42:57.789
And I touched a forte piano and all of a sudden

00:42:57.789 --> 00:43:03.659
it fit my hand perfectly. So that was one of

00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:07.780
those wonderful moments when you actually realize

00:43:07.780 --> 00:43:12.059
that you might have been struggling without knowing.

00:43:12.900 --> 00:43:18.400
I'm thinking if there were other moments like

00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:25.099
that. I think it also has to do with having a

00:43:25.099 --> 00:43:30.949
teacher who might allow your voice. to exist

00:43:30.949 --> 00:43:36.949
more fully. A lot of times in instruction, you

00:43:36.949 --> 00:43:40.230
will be corrected constantly, right? You will

00:43:40.230 --> 00:43:42.769
do something and you will be given an alternative

00:43:42.769 --> 00:43:49.550
or some way that this music should be. And I

00:43:49.550 --> 00:43:52.190
remember when I came for my doctoral studies

00:43:52.190 --> 00:43:56.429
at the Graduate Center, Ursula Oppens was this

00:43:56.429 --> 00:43:59.889
kind of teacher for me. She would kind of look

00:43:59.889 --> 00:44:04.610
at me and say, well, what do you think? You know,

00:44:04.630 --> 00:44:09.769
at first I was like, well, you tell me what I

00:44:09.769 --> 00:44:16.909
should think. So that was really, really freeing.

00:44:17.690 --> 00:44:21.550
And I think I find that same freedom in new music.

00:44:23.130 --> 00:44:28.869
Because it's something. where I feel I can bring

00:44:28.869 --> 00:44:33.630
myself, where I can focus on creating a story

00:44:33.630 --> 00:44:38.369
in sound without too many preconceptions, that

00:44:38.369 --> 00:44:41.170
I can go through the discovery process myself

00:44:41.170 --> 00:44:47.829
without shoulds. You know, this should be this

00:44:47.829 --> 00:44:51.449
way or that way. I think it keeps it incredibly

00:44:51.449 --> 00:44:56.219
alive. I'm grateful to my colleagues at the Graduate

00:44:56.219 --> 00:45:00.340
Center who introduced me to new music. You know,

00:45:00.340 --> 00:45:02.780
I told you at that point, I only played like

00:45:02.780 --> 00:45:10.960
one piece from 1964. But playing new music for

00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:13.460
me is like being a part of a living process.

00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:17.420
A lot of the times, you know, I'm thinking of

00:45:17.420 --> 00:45:21.900
this word struggle that you mentioned. doing

00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:25.139
a kind of archaeological process. We are excavating,

00:45:25.179 --> 00:45:29.039
we are preserving and while that's worthwhile

00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:35.139
and needed, something new has to come out of

00:45:35.139 --> 00:45:38.840
something old. It's the only natural way and

00:45:38.840 --> 00:45:43.599
I think new music does this for me and I enjoy

00:45:43.599 --> 00:45:51.489
also the community of new music. The open -mindedness,

00:45:51.769 --> 00:45:59.889
the interest in creating, connecting. And in

00:45:59.889 --> 00:46:03.670
a way, it's like a healthy relationship, don't

00:46:03.670 --> 00:46:06.670
you think? It's not much of a competition, because

00:46:06.670 --> 00:46:09.789
you're not really aiming to play this one famous

00:46:09.789 --> 00:46:12.510
piece performed by thousands of people, you know

00:46:12.510 --> 00:46:14.750
what I mean? That's right. And you're not placed

00:46:14.750 --> 00:46:19.170
in that line. A lot of audiences in our... kind

00:46:19.170 --> 00:46:22.929
of insular world will go to a concert and evaluate

00:46:22.929 --> 00:46:27.210
for the sake of ranking somebody in this long

00:46:27.210 --> 00:46:30.449
line of people who had played a particular piece.

00:46:31.289 --> 00:46:35.130
And you don't have that in new music. It becomes

00:46:35.130 --> 00:46:38.309
less about us, I think, as performers and more

00:46:38.309 --> 00:46:41.909
about what we are presenting. And I really appreciate

00:46:41.909 --> 00:46:46.280
that. I'm not a big fan of the spotlight. I think

00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:49.780
all my life I have preferred to practice more

00:46:49.780 --> 00:46:55.619
than perform until I really discovered new music.

00:46:55.739 --> 00:46:59.860
Because there was a spontaneity that I did not

00:46:59.860 --> 00:47:03.820
feel I could always achieve. So maybe that can

00:47:03.820 --> 00:47:08.639
answer your question about struggle. You know,

00:47:08.659 --> 00:47:13.360
that for me, this lack of spontaneity perhaps

00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:18.969
was... source of struggle because i was thinking

00:47:18.969 --> 00:47:22.489
we could fix it by composing our own music we

00:47:22.489 --> 00:47:25.409
could fix it by like what i've tried by relating

00:47:25.409 --> 00:47:30.929
to these less confined folk traditions um or

00:47:30.929 --> 00:47:33.389
maybe not fix it address it you know explore

00:47:33.389 --> 00:47:39.630
it in this way right right yeah and also if i

00:47:39.630 --> 00:47:42.929
wanted to go you know perform or learn contemporary

00:47:42.929 --> 00:47:46.960
music then you know, in my time when I was young,

00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:51.519
it was all about 20th century atonal. And although

00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:56.699
I loved, but then I can't just play them all

00:47:56.699 --> 00:47:59.699
the time. I need to go back to tonal music or

00:47:59.699 --> 00:48:02.239
some sort of, I want to hear a cadence or something.

00:48:02.539 --> 00:48:06.280
So in that sense, do you think that 21st century,

00:48:06.340 --> 00:48:09.739
this contemporary compositions are sort of coming

00:48:09.739 --> 00:48:15.550
back to tonal and also you know, blending of

00:48:15.550 --> 00:48:18.510
folk music like we talked about. Do you think?

00:48:18.610 --> 00:48:21.730
Yeah, I think the palette is just so incredibly

00:48:21.730 --> 00:48:23.829
wide. So you never know what you're going to

00:48:23.829 --> 00:48:26.550
discover. And also what I like is that I can

00:48:26.550 --> 00:48:30.750
always find something that I truly enjoy. You

00:48:30.750 --> 00:49:10.739
think that? Yeah. The next day, Taro asked Kaguya,

00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:15.219
What troubles you, my dear daughter? It is said

00:49:15.219 --> 00:49:17.460
that one should never look at the moon for too

00:49:17.460 --> 00:49:21.360
long. I have seen you several times these past

00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:27.500
days kneeling, looking at the moon. So, you...

00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:30.420
Hinted about storytelling. So I want to get there

00:49:30.420 --> 00:49:33.500
because you explore the storytelling through

00:49:33.500 --> 00:49:36.639
visual mediums, combining sound and imagery and

00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:39.599
motion to create immersive experiences. You've

00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:43.239
collaborated with shadow puppeteers and other

00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:46.679
visual artists. And I saw a little bit of a behind

00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:50.679
the scene kind of YouTube. clip that you posted

00:49:50.679 --> 00:49:54.139
on your website. Wow, incredible. Tell us more

00:49:54.139 --> 00:49:57.300
about that. Yes, so as I was finishing my doctoral

00:49:57.300 --> 00:50:01.519
studies, the final recital included this piece

00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:04.019
that I mentioned earlier, Debussy's La Boîte

00:50:04.019 --> 00:50:08.260
à Joujou, the toy box. And Debussy indicated

00:50:08.260 --> 00:50:11.679
that this is a ballet for children or marionettes.

00:50:12.730 --> 00:50:16.829
So I thought that wouldn't it be wonderful to

00:50:16.829 --> 00:50:21.289
present this using shadow puppetry? And a friend

00:50:21.289 --> 00:50:23.730
of mine, a wonderful artist by the name of Zahra

00:50:23.730 --> 00:50:27.789
Partovi, introduced me to Caroline Borderis,

00:50:27.909 --> 00:50:31.630
who is a French shadow puppeteer who has worked

00:50:31.630 --> 00:50:35.130
in New York for many years and lived in New York

00:50:35.130 --> 00:50:38.030
for many years and done many shows, especially

00:50:38.030 --> 00:50:43.110
at the Metropolitan. So I got to meet Caroline

00:50:43.110 --> 00:50:47.869
and our first collaboration was on this Debussy

00:50:47.869 --> 00:50:53.050
ballet. So we told the story of the ballet and

00:50:53.050 --> 00:50:56.610
there is a solo piano score accompanying it.

00:50:56.809 --> 00:51:01.849
Then after that, we did a few productions where

00:51:01.849 --> 00:51:06.150
we used shadow puppetry to really clarify the

00:51:06.150 --> 00:51:10.539
action. So it was more like a recital. with shadow

00:51:10.539 --> 00:51:15.420
puppetry visuals. And then more recently, we

00:51:15.420 --> 00:51:18.380
have done a lot of work with the Charles B. Wang

00:51:18.380 --> 00:51:22.539
Center in Stony Brook. Caroline had been performing

00:51:22.539 --> 00:51:26.119
there for some time. And usually we're asked

00:51:26.119 --> 00:51:30.699
to create original stories that relate to their

00:51:30.699 --> 00:51:36.659
exhibitions. So, so far, I think we have done

00:51:36.659 --> 00:51:42.309
six. original productions. And this has also

00:51:42.309 --> 00:51:45.969
been a wonderful way for me to discover new repertoire

00:51:45.969 --> 00:51:50.349
because we're primarily dealing with Asian cultural

00:51:50.349 --> 00:51:54.110
or artistic traditions. So discovering, you know,

00:51:54.110 --> 00:51:57.190
some music by Chinese composers, Korean composers,

00:51:57.690 --> 00:52:03.269
Japanese composers, even I played some music

00:52:03.269 --> 00:52:06.929
by Komitas, you know, depending on what the story

00:52:06.929 --> 00:52:12.659
is. And this has been the segment that you referred

00:52:12.659 --> 00:52:15.780
to, the behind the scenes. Yes, that's one of

00:52:15.780 --> 00:52:21.900
our favorite parts. And it really shows, it's

00:52:21.900 --> 00:52:25.280
a way to connect to the audience. So we, after

00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:28.940
the show, there will be a Q &A and the audience,

00:52:29.219 --> 00:52:32.239
many of whom are children, are invited to go

00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:35.480
backstage and see how this ancient art form works.

00:52:36.190 --> 00:52:39.650
So this is the most contact I've actually had

00:52:39.650 --> 00:52:44.869
with an audience post an event. And I think it's

00:52:44.869 --> 00:52:47.610
really effective. There's something very intimate

00:52:47.610 --> 00:52:52.610
about this medium. You know, we cannot perform

00:52:52.610 --> 00:52:55.469
it because of the size of the screen. We cannot

00:52:55.469 --> 00:53:01.050
perform it in a very large hall. There is usually

00:53:01.050 --> 00:53:05.409
a single instrument and narrator. oftentimes

00:53:05.409 --> 00:53:11.389
so it's it's been a joy for me to do this and

00:53:11.389 --> 00:53:15.070
i think it draws upon a childhood dream of working

00:53:15.070 --> 00:53:19.309
in disney at disney studios and writing or selecting

00:53:19.309 --> 00:53:23.769
music for their animated shows so i have so much

00:53:23.769 --> 00:53:27.329
freedom they are wonderful to work with i get

00:53:27.329 --> 00:53:32.369
to explore repertoire i never would the stories

00:53:33.949 --> 00:53:37.050
are educational, they're fun, they're really

00:53:37.050 --> 00:53:41.829
moving. And I have, you know, I've been really

00:53:41.829 --> 00:53:46.690
blessed to have found this as a creative outlet.

00:53:46.889 --> 00:53:52.590
Wow. And then what sort of stories do I get?

00:53:53.369 --> 00:53:56.949
Do you pick a modern story or do you create a

00:53:56.949 --> 00:54:02.110
completely original? Was there a writer? So I

00:54:02.110 --> 00:54:05.769
remember we did a show that was based on some

00:54:05.769 --> 00:54:08.929
of Rumi's poetry. So we would take poems and

00:54:08.929 --> 00:54:14.530
then retell those stories. Then we had done a

00:54:14.530 --> 00:54:21.610
show called the Xiang Yang Tricks the King. And

00:54:21.610 --> 00:54:25.809
this is based on a folk character from Laos.

00:54:26.670 --> 00:54:30.050
and uh really these are stories about how this

00:54:30.050 --> 00:54:34.630
little you know xiang miang gets to a better

00:54:34.630 --> 00:54:37.829
life by tricking everyone along the way so this

00:54:37.829 --> 00:54:41.250
was one of the humorous ones we have done there

00:54:41.250 --> 00:54:44.110
also some holiday presentations like nutcracker

00:54:44.110 --> 00:54:49.389
with piano and shadow puppetry we have done stories

00:54:49.389 --> 00:54:56.000
about traditional ways of making textiles So

00:54:56.000 --> 00:54:58.920
we would create a story perhaps of a mother teaching

00:54:58.920 --> 00:55:03.860
her daughter this and what this means. So it

00:55:03.860 --> 00:55:08.460
depends what the exhibition is. Before that,

00:55:08.539 --> 00:55:12.320
we had done a show that was all about water.

00:55:12.539 --> 00:55:15.019
And so it was a bunch of piano pieces inspired

00:55:15.019 --> 00:55:18.880
by water. And then the stories, you know, that

00:55:18.880 --> 00:55:22.150
they told or a lot of them. you know would just

00:55:22.150 --> 00:55:24.849
be suggested by the title and we would elaborate

00:55:24.849 --> 00:55:28.849
on that and then you get to pick pieces that

00:55:28.849 --> 00:55:31.550
you want to play according to the story yes yes

00:55:31.550 --> 00:55:35.349
exactly absolutely i'm it's just me and i get

00:55:35.349 --> 00:55:41.530
to do all this as i like so yes i i really enjoy

00:55:41.530 --> 00:55:45.269
it and how do you pick these um you you have

00:55:45.269 --> 00:55:49.170
to you must spend so many hours of research extensive

00:55:49.170 --> 00:55:52.309
research to find derived pieces contemporary

00:55:52.309 --> 00:55:57.010
pieces mainly or do you use some yeah at first

00:55:57.010 --> 00:55:58.909
i start you know i would draw from what i knew

00:55:58.909 --> 00:56:01.010
i would be thinking about pieces and thinking

00:56:01.010 --> 00:56:04.590
oh what could fit in this scene etc so a lot

00:56:04.590 --> 00:56:07.469
of those were like impression a lot of impressionistic

00:56:07.469 --> 00:56:11.829
music but in recent years yes it has been a lot

00:56:11.829 --> 00:56:15.420
of research And I do one of my favorite activities,

00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:19.320
which is go down the YouTube rabbit hole and,

00:56:19.480 --> 00:56:24.219
you know, search and try to be authentic, you

00:56:24.219 --> 00:56:27.019
know, so it doesn't look like some sort of parody,

00:56:27.199 --> 00:56:30.539
especially if it's a tradition I'm not familiar

00:56:30.539 --> 00:56:34.900
with. They have another show coming up this year.

00:56:34.940 --> 00:56:37.860
I was busy because the show was earlier on. And

00:56:37.860 --> 00:56:40.380
usually it's a December show, but they have it

00:56:40.380 --> 00:56:44.760
on November 9th. And this time my husband is

00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:49.880
doing live electronic music for the show. Your

00:56:49.880 --> 00:56:53.960
husband is a musician? Yes, he is. So I've asked

00:56:53.960 --> 00:57:02.400
him to take over this time and help out. Oh,

00:57:02.420 --> 00:57:06.659
wow. What a collaboration. Now, then you also

00:57:06.659 --> 00:57:09.219
have this, another project that you do, like

00:57:09.219 --> 00:57:12.219
you are the founding. member of Ensemble 365.

00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:17.440
So can you tell us about that? Yes, that was

00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:20.619
something I did in the past several years right

00:57:20.619 --> 00:57:24.920
after graduating from the CUNY Graduate Center.

00:57:25.420 --> 00:57:30.840
I formed a group with some of my colleagues and

00:57:30.840 --> 00:57:36.880
we worked together. One of our projects which

00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:40.639
fits this theme of multicultural music were a

00:57:40.639 --> 00:57:43.940
series of recitals and the recording that came

00:57:43.940 --> 00:58:09.630
out of it called Eastern Currents. So that was

00:58:09.630 --> 00:58:12.989
all dedicated to contemporary music from Asia.

00:58:13.190 --> 00:58:16.750
There were some trios, duets, some works featuring

00:58:16.750 --> 00:58:22.070
composers from the Graduate Center. And since

00:58:22.070 --> 00:58:25.510
then, most of us have kind of gone our individual

00:58:25.510 --> 00:58:32.530
ways and life has gotten busy. But I continue,

00:58:32.690 --> 00:58:36.300
I'm looking forward to doing... Something again

00:58:36.300 --> 00:58:41.000
with my flute and piano duo. This is with, again,

00:58:41.059 --> 00:58:43.019
with another colleague from the Graduate Center,

00:58:43.159 --> 00:58:47.019
Roberta Michel, who actually introduced me to

00:58:47.019 --> 00:58:52.199
real new music and showed me how not to be frightened

00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:56.460
by it. So I hope that in this coming year, I'll

00:58:56.460 --> 00:59:01.539
be able to do something with her again. There

00:59:01.539 --> 00:59:04.400
is always a kind of multicultural slant to the

00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:09.039
programming. But that's in terms of collaborative

00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:12.860
work. That's where I am now. Last year, when

00:59:12.860 --> 00:59:16.519
I was on my sabbatical from Queensborough, I

00:59:16.519 --> 00:59:21.420
worked on a two piano program with pianist Vladimir

00:59:21.420 --> 00:59:25.159
Valyarevich. And this was a program dedicated

00:59:25.159 --> 00:59:28.710
to music. that was influenced by the sound of

00:59:28.710 --> 00:59:33.050
bells and other metallophones. So it was titled

00:59:33.050 --> 00:59:39.050
Tintin Abulations. And there was a more recent

00:59:39.050 --> 00:59:43.670
work by Nina C. Young that was inspired by the

00:59:43.670 --> 00:59:49.309
bells that, Danilov bells that hang at Harvard.

00:59:50.510 --> 00:59:59.260
There was Poulenc's Sonata. a work by Crum at

00:59:59.260 --> 01:00:03.820
the first moment of his otherworldly resonances,

01:00:03.880 --> 01:00:09.139
and a transcription of Balinese gamelan by Colin

01:00:09.139 --> 01:00:14.099
McPhee. So this was the program, and I'm hoping

01:00:14.099 --> 01:00:17.840
that we're working on doing video recordings

01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:22.340
of this. So I hope I can share this with the

01:00:22.340 --> 01:00:26.570
viewers soon. Oh, wonderful. As you mentioned,

01:00:26.630 --> 01:00:29.730
you're a professor at Queensborough. Are you

01:00:29.730 --> 01:00:31.630
still a professor at Queensborough Community

01:00:31.630 --> 01:00:34.530
College? Yes, I am. And then recently, was it

01:00:34.530 --> 01:00:37.210
recent that you joined Columbia University as

01:00:37.210 --> 01:00:39.909
a faculty member? Yes. This is my fourth year

01:00:39.909 --> 01:00:44.929
at Columbia, yes. Oh, wow. That's a big position.

01:00:45.590 --> 01:00:49.670
And you have also taught pedagogy at Manus as

01:00:49.670 --> 01:00:53.840
well, right? also contributed the groundbreaking

01:00:53.840 --> 01:00:57.300
volume humanistic pedagogy across the disciplines

01:00:57.300 --> 01:01:00.679
approaches to mass atrocity education in the

01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:03.360
community college context which explores the

01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:07.320
use of music and arts to foster empathy and social

01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:09.989
awareness tell me more about this writing Well,

01:01:10.070 --> 01:01:13.469
that came out of a series that we did several

01:01:13.469 --> 01:01:16.610
years ago in collaboration with the Kupferberg

01:01:16.610 --> 01:01:19.949
Holocaust Center, which is located on Queensborough

01:01:19.949 --> 01:01:26.170
Community College campus. And it was a program

01:01:26.170 --> 01:01:30.610
funded by the grant, the National Endowment for

01:01:30.610 --> 01:01:37.210
Humanities grant. The goal was to help our students.

01:01:38.409 --> 01:01:45.210
become aware of history and current events and

01:01:45.210 --> 01:01:49.650
to develop better listeners and active participants

01:01:49.650 --> 01:01:55.349
in today's society. So in terms of the music

01:01:55.349 --> 01:01:59.510
activities that were tied to that program, there

01:01:59.510 --> 01:02:03.030
were a series of presentations, study units,

01:02:03.510 --> 01:02:09.480
assignments. And we wanted to help students translate

01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:13.719
the history of genocide, displacement and exile,

01:02:13.880 --> 01:02:17.599
which was the theme of the whole project, into

01:02:17.599 --> 01:02:25.760
personal stories told through music. And this,

01:02:25.940 --> 01:02:30.059
you know, I think the whole experience based

01:02:30.059 --> 01:02:33.969
on the responses that we got and the artifacts

01:02:33.969 --> 01:02:39.809
that we collected was that students got to thanks

01:02:39.809 --> 01:02:44.210
to music students got to experience and vividly

01:02:44.210 --> 01:02:50.010
live someone else's music story right and that

01:02:50.010 --> 01:02:55.389
music became a medium for healing and reflection

01:02:55.389 --> 01:03:01.349
so In one of the projects, students collected

01:03:01.349 --> 01:03:07.170
personally meaningful repertoire, and they noted

01:03:07.170 --> 01:03:14.010
how music served as a mirror also that can hold

01:03:14.010 --> 01:03:18.530
all of us accountable for things that happen.

01:03:19.269 --> 01:03:23.670
And it works very well within the community that

01:03:23.670 --> 01:03:27.849
is Queensborough. And the chapters that we wrote

01:03:27.849 --> 01:03:30.909
and that were assembled and edited and put into

01:03:30.909 --> 01:03:35.070
that volume came out of that particular program.

01:03:36.989 --> 01:03:43.050
In terms of adapting. One common thing that guides

01:03:43.050 --> 01:03:47.269
all my teaching because of the bumpy road that

01:03:47.269 --> 01:03:50.510
I myself have had, you know, with interruptions,

01:03:50.510 --> 01:03:54.130
with, you know, having other interests and at

01:03:54.130 --> 01:03:56.760
times, you know. career in music did not always

01:03:56.760 --> 01:04:02.119
seem like it would be likely, I tried to make

01:04:02.119 --> 01:04:07.059
the learning process for my students easier.

01:04:07.519 --> 01:04:11.840
So with fewer corrections, with fewer things

01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:18.019
to fix later on. And I really believe in self

01:04:18.019 --> 01:04:22.699
-directed education. So that's something. That

01:04:22.699 --> 01:04:25.480
would be the common thread between all of these

01:04:25.480 --> 01:04:30.019
places where I teach. And, you know, the thing

01:04:30.019 --> 01:04:32.039
is, I teach different things there, as I mentioned

01:04:32.039 --> 01:04:36.280
earlier. There are courses, you know, group courses

01:04:36.280 --> 01:04:40.539
at Queensborough and at Columbia. These are one

01:04:40.539 --> 01:04:45.719
on one lessons. At Columbia, when I read student

01:04:45.719 --> 01:04:49.300
comments at the end of the semester, oftentimes

01:04:49.300 --> 01:04:53.590
they focus on. the satisfaction of personal achievement

01:04:53.590 --> 01:04:59.829
and the fact that music was that kind of safe

01:04:59.829 --> 01:05:04.550
oasis for them amidst all their other things

01:05:04.550 --> 01:05:08.329
that are going on in their lives. Oh, how wonderful.

01:05:09.369 --> 01:05:13.949
So at Columbia, you also, are they non -music

01:05:13.949 --> 01:05:17.030
majors? Correct. So currently I have a studio

01:05:17.030 --> 01:05:19.840
of eight students. In the past, I would... have

01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:23.559
12 it depends how we you know are able you know

01:05:23.559 --> 01:05:26.219
how many students there are and how we divide

01:05:26.219 --> 01:05:31.940
them amongst ourselves but yes i think i have

01:05:31.940 --> 01:05:36.019
two students who are music majors and others

01:05:36.019 --> 01:05:41.579
study other things some come with quite extensive

01:05:41.579 --> 01:05:47.449
prior experience and some are beginners Oh, how

01:05:47.449 --> 01:05:50.449
fun. Yeah. Yeah. It really is. It really is.

01:05:50.530 --> 01:05:53.309
Yes. And I appreciate the one -on -one because

01:05:53.309 --> 01:06:13.250
we get to really become, you know, friends. Let's

01:06:13.250 --> 01:06:15.550
get into some philosophical conversation here.

01:06:15.980 --> 01:06:19.320
Like in a time when the role of classical musicians

01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:24.159
is constantly evolving, you know, and what do

01:06:24.159 --> 01:06:27.420
you see as the artist's responsibility to society

01:06:27.420 --> 01:06:31.619
today? Well, you know, we have to be that mirror

01:06:31.619 --> 01:06:36.840
of our world, but at the same time, encourage

01:06:36.840 --> 01:06:44.019
people to see things in new ways. I think in

01:06:44.019 --> 01:06:50.019
that way, we... cross all these boundaries. Always,

01:06:50.139 --> 01:06:55.679
you know, seeking that best of humanity. Then

01:06:55.679 --> 01:06:59.519
also, because you're teaching at college and

01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:02.599
there are some major music majors, piano majors.

01:07:02.699 --> 01:07:07.500
So how do you encourage those young pianists

01:07:07.500 --> 01:07:11.039
to find their authentic voices while, you know,

01:07:11.059 --> 01:07:13.260
remaining rooted in the classical tradition?

01:07:14.159 --> 01:07:17.420
I mentioned earlier that I believe in self -directed

01:07:17.420 --> 01:07:21.619
education. It's really the only kind of education

01:07:21.619 --> 01:07:25.900
that we can have when you think about it. Yes,

01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:28.599
we can offer so much to our students, but unless

01:07:28.599 --> 01:07:33.619
they take it in their own direction and apply

01:07:33.619 --> 01:07:39.179
it in ways that matter to them, it needs to be

01:07:39.179 --> 01:07:43.780
continued this way. So I think our job as teachers

01:07:43.780 --> 01:07:47.340
is really just the beginning of that journey.

01:07:47.539 --> 01:07:52.119
So it needs to be a lifelong journey. And I think

01:07:52.119 --> 01:07:56.119
studying classical music really gives a great

01:07:56.119 --> 01:07:59.940
foundation. We learn to understand this language,

01:08:00.300 --> 01:08:05.420
its vocabulary. And with these tools, we can

01:08:05.420 --> 01:08:08.280
then understand something else if that's what

01:08:08.280 --> 01:08:12.409
we choose to do. And obviously, like as a tradition

01:08:12.409 --> 01:08:16.869
itself, it's full of beauty and wisdom and creativity.

01:08:17.430 --> 01:08:23.850
And I don't know, I think it, I don't know, it

01:08:23.850 --> 01:08:26.010
sets a standard, you know, it's not something

01:08:26.010 --> 01:08:32.130
that can be created quickly, right? It requires

01:08:32.130 --> 01:08:36.250
skill, it requires reflection, it requires knowledge.

01:08:37.420 --> 01:08:40.340
And especially in the times that we live in,

01:08:40.420 --> 01:08:46.180
it is really good that it cannot be consumed

01:08:46.180 --> 01:08:51.359
in 30 -second bites, right? So I think this is

01:08:51.359 --> 01:08:57.579
the strength that it gives us. What do you think

01:08:57.579 --> 01:09:00.859
the role of educator now? Because people have

01:09:00.859 --> 01:09:04.119
access to many things. They can listen to music

01:09:04.119 --> 01:09:07.859
almost for free, right? Which wasn't the case

01:09:07.859 --> 01:09:12.220
before internet. And I had to go and discover

01:09:12.220 --> 01:09:16.159
the music at the store. And then even this one

01:09:16.159 --> 01:09:20.100
store can't have everything. But now it's a plethora

01:09:20.100 --> 01:09:27.000
of music of any genre. right so if even in comes

01:09:27.000 --> 01:09:31.859
in a video format as well so then the some adult

01:09:31.859 --> 01:09:34.920
students would come to me and say oh i can i

01:09:34.920 --> 01:09:38.380
learned chopin scherzo number two by watching

01:09:38.380 --> 01:09:43.260
i was like what and then he's like super beginner

01:09:43.260 --> 01:09:47.359
so there are so many wrong finger numbers to

01:09:47.359 --> 01:09:49.750
the technique and everything but the You can

01:09:49.750 --> 01:09:51.970
hear the music. You can hear the scherzo at the

01:09:51.970 --> 01:09:55.310
beginning. I was so impressed. So in a way, people

01:09:55.310 --> 01:09:58.890
can learn from videos and so on. So what do you

01:09:58.890 --> 01:10:03.130
think the role of educator these days? Well,

01:10:03.170 --> 01:10:05.729
you have to help them sift right through all

01:10:05.729 --> 01:10:10.310
the material that's there. So there are guidelines

01:10:10.310 --> 01:10:13.489
you can suggest. Oftentimes, you know, in my

01:10:13.489 --> 01:10:17.640
classes, I will draw. from certain YouTube channels

01:10:17.640 --> 01:10:21.579
and tell them, okay, these are sources I think

01:10:21.579 --> 01:10:24.960
that will be helpful to you. And if you mentioned

01:10:24.960 --> 01:10:27.359
this kind of learning, which we have all encountered,

01:10:27.579 --> 01:10:30.439
then, you know, you can show, like sometimes

01:10:30.439 --> 01:10:33.380
I would show, for example, Irina Gorin's videos,

01:10:33.739 --> 01:10:36.359
you know, where she would do a short technical

01:10:36.359 --> 01:10:41.140
demonstration. And you have students try this

01:10:41.140 --> 01:10:44.539
and then decide, you know, which do you think?

01:10:45.159 --> 01:10:47.739
you would rather do. So it becomes kind of their

01:10:47.739 --> 01:10:53.000
own decision. And you are helping them find a

01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:55.699
way through this jungle of everything, pretty

01:10:55.699 --> 01:11:01.560
much. And if you say, go listen to a piece, then

01:11:01.560 --> 01:11:05.739
you have to say, please find a few recordings.

01:11:05.880 --> 01:11:09.760
Tell me what you listened to. Why did you pick

01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:15.720
this? I mean... That has been there also before,

01:11:15.859 --> 01:11:18.479
I think, you know, we might have had students,

01:11:18.479 --> 01:11:20.819
you know, who heard Glenn Gould and then decided,

01:11:20.960 --> 01:11:22.960
oh, I'm going to imitate Glenn Gould, right?

01:11:23.039 --> 01:11:26.739
That's something that I could imagine happening

01:11:26.739 --> 01:11:35.680
before. Yes, so I think what we give to our students

01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:38.579
really is our own experience in which we have

01:11:38.579 --> 01:11:43.920
shed all the things that did not serve us. And

01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:48.819
so we can offer them this filter in a way. Like,

01:11:48.819 --> 01:11:51.100
listen, you know, I've changed my technique many

01:11:51.100 --> 01:11:55.539
times. And like I mentioned, I tried to save

01:11:55.539 --> 01:11:58.880
my students from this process. Right. So I can

01:11:58.880 --> 01:12:04.880
share my own story and say, yes, please do not

01:12:04.880 --> 01:12:08.420
play this way. Even if your body is somehow able

01:12:08.420 --> 01:12:11.899
to withstand this, don't do it because there

01:12:11.899 --> 01:12:22.180
is a better way. I think sometimes I think about

01:12:22.180 --> 01:12:24.920
this because they will make their own mistakes

01:12:24.920 --> 01:12:28.380
and it will push them in one direction or another.

01:12:28.619 --> 01:12:31.859
So personal experience like this is valuable.

01:12:32.899 --> 01:12:37.180
I think what we offer is our own and kind of

01:12:37.180 --> 01:12:40.949
advise them. this way, try to help them navigate

01:12:40.949 --> 01:12:44.229
the many things that are there, ask them questions,

01:12:44.449 --> 01:12:49.789
ask them to reflect. I always begin when I see

01:12:49.789 --> 01:12:53.109
my students, especially when I meet my new students,

01:12:53.189 --> 01:12:55.569
it's always like, what is your goal? What would

01:12:55.569 --> 01:12:58.890
you like? And then we kind of build from there.

01:13:00.789 --> 01:13:03.189
We're almost coming to an end of our conversation,

01:13:03.350 --> 01:13:05.609
but before we wrap up, I'd love to hear what

01:13:05.609 --> 01:13:08.199
you're currently working on. And any upcoming

01:13:08.199 --> 01:13:10.920
performances or recordings of any projects maybe

01:13:10.920 --> 01:13:16.500
you can reveal to us today? I have these upcoming

01:13:16.500 --> 01:13:18.899
video recordings that I would like to make of

01:13:18.899 --> 01:13:24.500
that program, Tintin Abulations. And so I'm working

01:13:24.500 --> 01:13:29.460
on that as my teaching schedule allows. And I

01:13:29.460 --> 01:13:33.819
am trying to put together a program of... contemporary

01:13:33.819 --> 01:13:37.460
flute and piano music with my friend, flutist

01:13:37.460 --> 01:13:41.340
friend, Roberta Michelle. So that's kind of what

01:13:41.340 --> 01:13:44.140
I'm keeping in mind for the next few months.

01:13:45.199 --> 01:13:49.340
Wonderful. Now, when you think about your journey

01:13:49.340 --> 01:13:53.279
from Sarajevo to New York, from performer to

01:13:53.279 --> 01:13:56.699
educator, what do you hope your legacy will be?

01:13:56.760 --> 01:14:00.739
I know you're still very young, but both artistically

01:14:00.739 --> 01:14:04.109
and personally. I would like to be remembered

01:14:04.109 --> 01:14:07.390
as someone who helped create moments of beauty

01:14:07.390 --> 01:14:18.029
with my community. Maybe be remembered as kind

01:14:18.029 --> 01:14:20.869
of that annoying person who insisted on high

01:14:20.869 --> 01:14:27.350
standards. Maybe. Other than that, you know,

01:14:27.350 --> 01:14:34.100
just being a good. You know, parent, good daughter,

01:14:34.220 --> 01:14:38.600
good partner, good friend. It sounds like the

01:14:38.600 --> 01:14:41.859
pioneer pledge I gave when I was seven in former

01:14:41.859 --> 01:14:47.020
Yugoslavia. I promised to be a good student and

01:14:47.020 --> 01:14:53.520
a faithful friend. You did? Really? Wow. Yeah.

01:14:53.640 --> 01:14:59.579
And which I'm sure you are. And I mean, you were

01:14:59.579 --> 01:15:04.960
because you were supportive for coming to the

01:15:04.960 --> 01:15:08.600
live show about a month ago and really meant

01:15:08.600 --> 01:15:13.079
a lot. So, yeah, thank you. It was really wonderful.

01:15:13.220 --> 01:15:16.020
And I'm so glad that you're bringing us all together

01:15:16.020 --> 01:15:20.260
and showcasing the variety and really amazing

01:15:20.260 --> 01:15:25.579
work that's being done. Thank you. Yeah, I really

01:15:25.579 --> 01:15:28.779
wanted to showcase that, you know, four different

01:15:28.779 --> 01:15:33.739
stories, but just contributing to the society

01:15:33.739 --> 01:15:37.119
and the communities, different communities by,

01:15:37.260 --> 01:15:40.739
you know, music and music education. So, yeah.

01:15:40.899 --> 01:15:44.779
Bravo. Oh, thank you. Yeah, bravo to you too

01:15:44.779 --> 01:15:49.140
for your dedication. So for our listeners and

01:15:49.140 --> 01:15:53.779
viewers, please go to... MyrnaLekic .com, which

01:15:53.779 --> 01:15:59.659
is M -I -R -N -A -L -E -K -I -C .com to learn

01:15:59.659 --> 01:16:05.039
more about Myrna's amazing albums and also the

01:16:05.039 --> 01:16:08.840
shadow puppeteer that she mentioned today. And

01:16:08.840 --> 01:16:13.159
also you can listen to her music on iTunes and

01:16:13.159 --> 01:16:16.640
Spotify and so many other music streaming services.

01:16:16.979 --> 01:16:21.539
All right, then. The rapid fire questions segment

01:16:21.539 --> 01:16:24.399
is here. Now we take this segment very seriously.

01:16:24.760 --> 01:16:27.739
You've shared your stories and expertise today,

01:16:27.880 --> 01:16:32.060
but these questions carefully curated by our

01:16:32.060 --> 01:16:35.840
team, which is me, will give our listeners a

01:16:35.840 --> 01:16:40.260
glimpse into who you truly are. So let's do this.

01:16:40.399 --> 01:16:43.439
Now, please answer each question with the shortest

01:16:43.439 --> 01:16:46.859
response possible. No explanation is necessary.

01:16:47.550 --> 01:16:52.369
Are you ready? Yes. All right. Level one, fun

01:16:52.369 --> 01:16:56.350
and light. Number one, what is your comfort food?

01:16:57.050 --> 01:17:02.850
Chicken soup. Oh, so good. How do you like your

01:17:02.850 --> 01:17:06.329
coffee in the morning, Myrna? I don't drink coffee.

01:17:07.210 --> 01:17:13.329
Just water. Just water? Not even tea? Sometimes,

01:17:13.409 --> 01:17:16.409
yes, I drink tea sometimes, though not in the

01:17:16.409 --> 01:17:20.149
morning always. Coffee gets me too hyper. Oh.

01:17:20.250 --> 01:17:27.170
I love the taste. Cats or dogs? Dogs. Sunrise

01:17:27.170 --> 01:17:31.909
or sunset? Sunset. Summer or winter? Summer.

01:17:32.810 --> 01:17:36.130
Level two, it gets a little difficult. Okay.

01:17:36.250 --> 01:17:41.970
What skill have you always wanted to learn but...

01:17:42.119 --> 01:17:46.079
Haven't had a chance to. There's so many. But

01:17:46.079 --> 01:17:49.579
musically related, maybe composition, improvisation,

01:17:49.579 --> 01:17:52.279
things like that. I know, right? Yeah, me too.

01:17:52.640 --> 01:17:56.539
Yeah. All right. What is your word or words to

01:17:56.539 --> 01:18:01.739
live by? I would say persist. Favorite venue

01:18:01.739 --> 01:18:05.840
you have performed in or maybe dream venue, but

01:18:05.840 --> 01:18:09.739
favorite venue. That is an excellent question.

01:18:11.210 --> 01:18:15.750
I once auditioned at the Performing Arts Center

01:18:15.750 --> 01:18:19.550
at the University of Maryland. And I remember

01:18:19.550 --> 01:18:23.770
the light in the venue and the wonderful piano.

01:18:24.029 --> 01:18:29.050
I think it's the Clarice Smith Performing Arts

01:18:29.050 --> 01:18:32.409
Center. Really? Wow, that's very... Maybe that

01:18:32.409 --> 01:18:35.750
one. I love venues that have light, lots of light.

01:18:35.829 --> 01:18:40.140
And this is why I thought of this one. Now, what

01:18:40.140 --> 01:18:42.979
is the most important quality you look for in

01:18:42.979 --> 01:18:49.079
other people? I would say sense of responsibility.

01:18:50.239 --> 01:18:54.399
Name a composer you wish more people knew about.

01:18:55.359 --> 01:19:00.989
Frangiz Ali Zadeh. Also my husband, my husband,

01:19:01.189 --> 01:19:05.529
Andre Bregeger. Okay, Andre Bregeger. Okay, I

01:19:05.529 --> 01:19:09.409
will look him up on Spotify. Is his music on

01:19:09.409 --> 01:19:12.210
Spotify? Yes, there should be some there and

01:19:12.210 --> 01:19:15.090
on his website. And he does mostly electronic

01:19:15.090 --> 01:19:19.229
music these days. Okay, cool. I'll check him

01:19:19.229 --> 01:19:23.149
out. Now, level three, two more questions to

01:19:23.149 --> 01:19:27.050
go. Name one piece in your current playlist.

01:19:28.079 --> 01:19:31.520
Oh, you know what? I don't have a playlist. Oh,

01:19:31.619 --> 01:19:35.319
I don't. It seems like I have music, you know,

01:19:35.319 --> 01:19:38.859
with me throughout the day. And I don't listen

01:19:38.859 --> 01:19:44.439
to it when I walk. I know, right? Yeah, usually

01:19:44.439 --> 01:19:47.659
like I just, you know, seek out things as I need

01:19:47.659 --> 01:19:52.439
them. Yeah, I found that a lot of musicians are

01:19:52.439 --> 01:19:55.460
like that. And then I thought of myself. I don't

01:19:55.460 --> 01:19:58.899
have it either. I don't listen to music in such

01:19:58.899 --> 01:20:02.619
a pleasure way. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's

01:20:02.619 --> 01:20:06.520
a part of our job. So I'd rather listen to podcasts,

01:20:06.579 --> 01:20:11.000
actually. The words. Absolutely. Right. I miss

01:20:11.000 --> 01:20:13.899
listening to words. All right. The last question.

01:20:14.039 --> 01:20:19.199
Fill in the blank. Music is blank. Music is essential.

01:20:22.029 --> 01:20:25.289
That's the first one. Yeah, no one said that

01:20:25.289 --> 01:20:29.029
before. Mirna, thank you so much for joining

01:20:29.029 --> 01:20:31.890
us today and for sharing your artistry and spending

01:20:31.890 --> 01:20:36.090
time with me like this and your thoughtful, thoughtful...

01:20:36.640 --> 01:20:40.079
reflections and insights with such openness and

01:20:40.079 --> 01:20:43.420
creativity and grace. And to our audience, if

01:20:43.420 --> 01:20:46.659
you would like to explore more of Myrna's incredible

01:20:46.659 --> 01:20:50.279
work, please visit her website at myrnalekic

01:20:50.279 --> 01:20:54.500
.com and listen to her acclaimed recordings available

01:20:54.500 --> 01:20:57.800
wherever you listen to music. And of course,

01:20:57.819 --> 01:20:59.939
a huge thank you to all of you, our dedicated

01:20:59.939 --> 01:21:02.380
listeners, for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's

01:21:02.380 --> 01:21:05.460
episode, please give it a thumbs up and subscribe.

01:21:05.960 --> 01:21:09.460
to the PianoPod on YouTube. And also share and

01:21:09.460 --> 01:21:11.479
review this episode on your favorite platform

01:21:11.479 --> 01:21:14.420
and tag us at PianoPod. It's one of the best

01:21:14.420 --> 01:21:17.800
ways to help us, our community grow. And we love

01:21:17.800 --> 01:21:20.479
hearing your feedback. For the latest updates,

01:21:20.640 --> 01:21:23.680
guest news, and stories that inspire creativity

01:21:23.680 --> 01:21:27.319
and connection, follow the PianoPod on Substack,

01:21:27.399 --> 01:21:31.140
TikTok, Instagram, and LinkedIn. We'll see you

01:21:31.140 --> 01:21:34.000
in the next episode of the PianoPod. Thanks again,

01:21:34.079 --> 01:21:37.029
Myrna. Thank you so much. Thank you.