I think for me, I experience music as a powerful
antidote to suffering and to ugliness. And I
feel a strong desire to help create beauty. And
as a pianist, I find beauty in variety, in new
ways of seeing and hearing. and in exploring
the full capabilities of our instrument. Playing
new music for me is like being a part of a living
process. Something new has to come out of something
old. It's the only natural way and I think new
music does this for me and I enjoy also the community
of new music. It becomes less about us, I think,
as performers and more about what we are presenting.
Welcome to another episode of The Piano Pod,
everyone. This season, we are exploring creativity
and connection, highlighting artists who are
reshaping what it means to create, teach, and
inspire in the modern world of classical music.
Today's guest... dr mirna lekic embodies that
spirit through her multifaceted artistry born
and raised in sarajevo and now based in new york
city mirna is a pianist scholar and educator
whose work bridges intercultural dialogue historical
performance practice and contemporary creativity
her performances have taken her to major venues
worldwide from Carnegie Weill Hall to St. Martin
in the Fields in London, and she is equally passionate
about nurturing the next generation of musicians
as a professor at Columbia University and Queensborough
Community College. In recent years, Myrna has
released acclaimed recordings available wherever
you listen to music, earning praise for her intelligent,
sensitive interpretations and recently being
named a laureate of the American Prize piano
competition. She also took part in 11 ,000 Strings
at the Park Avenue Armory, a monumental sound
installation that gathered musicians in the celebration
of resonance, collaboration, and the collective
voice of strings and piano. It's a project that
truly reflects her commitment to the artistic
intersections of sound, culture, and community.
Before we dive in, thank you to our listeners
for tuning in and supporting The Piano Pod. Your
engagement, whether through sharing episodes,
leaving a review, or simply listening, helps
sustain this growing community of artists and
thinkers who are redefining what it means to
make music today. Here is Season 6, Episode 7
of The Piano Pod with pianist, scholar, and educator
Myrna Lekic. Please enjoy the show. You are listening
to The Piano Pod, where we talk to the brightest
minds in the industry about how they are bringing
the piano into the future and thriving in a complex,
ever -evolving world. Myrna, welcome to The Piano
Pod, finally! Yay! Thank you so much for being
here. Thank you. Thank you for having me and
creating this piano pod community for us. Oh,
thank you. Thank you for saying that. And, you
know, I've been wanting to have you on the show
for such a long time. And so I'm so happy that
you're here. So for our listeners and viewers,
Myrna and I actually go back a few years. We
first met through. madeleine brucer's uh art
of practicing workshops back in i think it was
around 2020 2021 or so and now of course madeleine
was one of our wonderful guests from season one
actually and then miana also came to the piano
part live event uh this past october which truly
It meant so much to me. So, Mirna, you recently
participated as one of the pianists in 11 ,000
Strings at the Park Avenue Armory, a monumental
large -scale installation by German composer
George Friedrich Haas. And this North American
premiere unfolded over several days and featured
50 upright pianos. Wow. It was all microtuned
and everything. But let's start with that. Can
you tell us about the project, how you participated
and what was it about and so on? Sure, sure.
It was really a wonderful surprise and a gift.
And the opportunity came unexpectedly late last
spring when Park Avenue Armory disseminated a
call for 50 pianists. So seeing this, I was intrigued
and I submitted my resume and got to participate
as a cover. So I attended the rehearsals and
performed in three shows. And I was curious to
hear what the composer, Georg Friedrich Haas,
had done with this unique setup, which includes
25 musicians of Ensemble Klangforum Wien. and
those 50 upright pianos tuned two cents apart.
So in a circular setup that was used in rehearsals
and in performance, the piano that you are sitting
at sounds two cents higher than the piano to
your left. And all the pianos from piano zero
to piano 49 covered a distance of a half step.
And this allows for wonderful tuning that makes
possible intervals and harmonies that are alive
and sparkling. And one really feels alive and
one with the sound. It reminded me that live
performance cannot be replaced. For me personally,
the piece itself felt like traveling through
a forest of sound. At times, the pianos alone
sound like a brass choir or like an organ. At
other times, there are these fragile, glassy
arpeggios that have a soothing effect. And other
sections were more violent. So they would stir
up so much sound, you would feel that it could
sweep you off the ground. And it was interesting
that all of this was created using acoustic instruments
only. There was no synthesized sound. So both
the creativity of the composition And the great
work that the Armory did in advertising, you
know, we played sold out shows of new microtonal
music. That really made me feel hopeful about
what we do. And I think given the times that
we live in, it was really much needed and greatly
appreciated. Wow. Oh, what an experience. I wanted
to go, but the ticket went up so high that I
couldn't in the end afford it. Yeah. But I saw
the advertisement on social media a lot. And,
you know, not only you, but also my colleagues,
several of them participated. So I was like,
wow, this would be a lot. I'm sure once in a
lifetime opportunity, you know, that's wonderful.
It was one of those rare moments when so many
pianists get together. Right. That's right. We
don't do ensemble so much. Wow, that's great.
So I know, well, I mean, that whole event project
sounds like something that, you know, how you
approach with the artist, like imagination and
openness and deep sense of connection to people.
So now I usually start out with this prompt,
this question for each conversation. So let's
start with this. What would you say is the core?
of your mission and your driving passion behind
your work? Yes, I thought about that. And I remember
thinking about this before I decided to follow
a degree in music. But I think for me, I experienced
music as a powerful antidote to suffering and
to ugliness. And I feel a strong desire to help
create beauty. or at least not stand in its way,
to allow or help the conditions that allow beauty
to emerge and to exist. So I strive for this
in life and in work in general. And as a pianist,
I find beauty in variety, in new ways of seeing
and hearing. in exploring the full capabilities
of our instrument. So this has led me to seek
out repertoire with a variety of compositional
and performance techniques, and also to consider
music at the intersection of different traditions.
In the process, I feel that I deepen my relationship
to the instrument, to myself, and also to our
shared musical language thank you for saying
that now i was going to talk about your background
first but because you mentioned about The sound
and also, you know, you mentioned something about
variety. So let's start with your album, Mirage,
which came out in 2023, a captivating exploring
of sonic illusions and transformations. And,
you know, the album celebrates the piano's extraordinary
ability, like you said, to... you know, imitate,
echo, and morph into other instruments. Yeah,
I can't believe it was a piano album. Some of
the pieces you hear didn't sound like a traditional
piano music. So, featuring works by familiar
composers such as, you know, Debussy, Prokofiev,
Godowski also, and then though you chose some
of their lesser -known pieces, as well as 20th,
21st century composers like Alan Hovhannes? Hovhannes,
yeah. And then also, how do you pronounce this
Azerbaijani composer? Frangiz Ali Zadeh. Oh,
wonderful piece. Music for piano. It's incredible.
So can you maybe take us, take our listeners
on a fascinating journey where the piano becomes
both traveler and polyglot. Yes, that was the
idea, right? It mirrors some of my life experiences,
right? And oftentimes when I program, I deal
with this aspect of variety thematically, right?
So when I worked on my first album, Masks, it
combined lesser known works, 20th century works,
and revolved around this ballet that Debussy
wrote for... children dancers or marionettes
called La Boîte à Joujoux or The Toil Box. And
then it included pieces inspired by other masked
characters. And so Mirage kind of grew out of
that. It's more of a multicultural tapestry than
masks. And yes, it focuses on piano's imitative
capabilities. But I think More abstractly, both
of these albums explore the nature of adapting
and crossing boundaries. And so you have these
masks, languages, behaviors we acquire as we
navigate different environments. So I was curious
to see how our instrument could do that. I'm
not sure how it all began, but it started during
the pandemic. I was thinking about what to do
next. And I had played some of this music before.
For example, there is a piece inspired, or that
sounds to me like bells very much, by Ukrainian
composer Igor Shamov. That was the first, let's
say, contemporary piece that I played. At Eastman,
they had this requirement for your senior recital
to include a piece written after 1964. And that's
what I had learned back then. So I kind of went
back to that. And then I had played several compositions
by Frangiz Alizadeh, whose music I really love.
I recorded one of her chamber works on another
album called Eastern Currents. And I looked,
you know, I searched for works that could fit
this theme. So I have, I was familiar, for example,
Martin Scherzinger is a composer who was my music
history teacher at Eastman. And I had listened
to some of his extraordinary music. He is a scholar
of African music, so his piece imitates the sound
of Mbira. Then there is another recent composition
by Natalie Draper called Fractured Bells that
goes into the bell category. And the album is
organized into chapters of sorts. So you have
As if you are traveling, you know, from the east
to the west and then south. So there's some Spanish
music. There is Armenian tradition. And Alan
Hovhannes, I was not familiar with his works
much. But once you start reading about him, this
was his life's work. Writing music that crossed
cultural boundaries. What else is on the album?
There's a short piece by Prokofiev imitating
harp. Yes. Obviously, there's cowl, his famous
Aeolian harp. Oh, yeah. That was incredible.
I think this was a very exciting, very interesting
project for me. And even though it might seem
random, all the pieces were really chosen as
if it's a travelogue. Maybe at a time when I
thought of it in pandemic, we couldn't do much
traveling. So it was a way to experience that.
Oh, so you wanted to include compositions of
composers from different regions, I guess. Yeah.
Oh, wonderful. Yeah, I totally enjoy the music
for piano, the first one. You were playing by
yourself, right? I was playing, yeah, that's
a solo piano piece and it requires minimal preparation.
She asks that you place a glass bead necklace
onto the lower strings of the piano. And the
musical language blends traditional Azerbaijani
Mugham music and Western classical tradition
in which the composer was trained. So the scales
are drawn or constructed like that. And the necklace
helps imitate the sound of Azerbaijani tar, the
string instrument. So you get these overtones.
where the effect comes from it's not out of tune
piano no but i at the beginning i thought you
were this was oh maybe she is doing a duet with
someone some some this traditional instrument
or something like that it sounded like it you
know everything is played on keys and it's it's
that simple glass i went through several necklaces
trying to trying to find the sound that gave
it that shimmering effect so you know the size
of the bead mattered but that is the only preparation
that you have. I had worked with my husband who
does some visual arts as well on presenting it
with a video live video and we would present
some pieces more as a narrative and others were
just a series of images and I think that also
helped kind of unite the whole. But one that
inspired you to Maybe you mentioned already,
but curate this particular program, you know,
because I hear folk music, gamelan to, you know,
folk motives to, yeah, different musical languages
and really non -Western traditions. Were you
always interested in that sort of folk music
that is, you know, scales are not in the traditional
classical, I guess, palette or sound? Well, I
think there are two parts to that, two ways that
I can answer that. One has to do with this desire
to seek balance after being so thoroughly immersed
in Western classical tradition. And perhaps I
was seeking that balance because I grew up with
a lot of folk music, listening to folk music.
So when I was a child in Bosnia or in former
Yugoslavia, that is something that was really
easily accessible. And there was a great variety
of folk music. that region, or there still is.
You can find things like Bosnian sevdah music,
which is something that grew out of the Ottoman
period, but in spirit is very similar to Portuguese
fado. You know, it's intense emotionally. It
speaks of love and longing and loss. And then
you have Multi -part a cappella singing from
Dalmatia, which is the Croatian coast, which
has these Italianate harmonies and functions
somewhat in like a call and response fashion.
Then you might have Macedonian dances and songs.
And I think maybe here it will be. For the listeners,
it's kind of similar to Bulgarian music. And
you might even have epics, like long epics that
are accompanied on a single string instrument
called gusle. So, you know, you hear all this
growing up. And there was a lively pop and rock
scene as well, especially in Sarajevo. So it's
there. And somehow I think, you know, I think
when you receive formal training, at least the
way it was in Yugoslavia, it is rooted in Western
classical tradition. And then as you step into
the real world, you look for those things, those
other things that are also part of you. Last
year, I did a presentation at Columbia for a
class. And one of the students, it was a presentation
on prepared piano and in particular, the music
of Ali Zadeh, because another work of hers called
Three Watercolors that I had played involves
some actual preparation of the strings. And one
of the students asked me, how do I or how did
I deal with phrasing in this piece? And, you
know, I stood there for a moment a little bit
because I had dealt with it completely intuitively.
And there is this is not eight bar classical
syntax. It is very much, you know, kind of non
-Western. It seems flexible. So I think I subconsciously
approached it just as I would a folk tune. And
that's what I told the student. It really came
just intuitively, and I felt connected to this
music. Now, when I look back, I think maybe this
is the reason, having grown up with folk music
that in some ways was similar. Yeah, but to put
that into this one album, it takes a lot of work
and thoughts, you know, thoughtfulness. And so,
but... Yeah, I really, I think I listened to
a few rounds because once you start it, like
you have to really go all the way to the end.
Otherwise, yeah, I mean, each piece is beautiful,
but yeah. And I like the piece, Guero, Guero.
Oh, yes, yes. Guero is on it. That was, you know,
chosen out of my desire to learn a completely
new language. So that piece involves. you know,
sliding and across the keys, kind of swiping
in different fashions. The score, I wish I had
it nearby here, but the score looks nothing like
traditional notation. It's a series of gestures
that are explained. So the challenge is finding
direction. And how do you build a crescendo in
these gestures that you are not familiar with?
How do you construct the story? So that was a
wonderful challenge. And it takes patience at
first with new music in general, I think, but
especially when it's an entirely new language.
classical musician classically trained we don't
think about sound so much surprisingly you know
like i've been doing this podcast for a while
and then when i speak with contemporary composers
that's when i realize oh yeah we are actually
sound we deal with sound but we think of tone
we think about phrases just like your student
said you think about rhythms But sound is a very
different thing. And then, yeah, but the album,
throughout the album, as if this was not performed
on the regular piano, like there was like a sound
engineer almost creating the sound. You know,
I felt that way. Amazing. Yeah, that was the
challenge was to select pieces where no electronics
or technology was needed. Right. That's kind
of the challenge I posed to myself. Partly because
I'm not so good with these. But with new technology.
But because this fascinates me. How do you do
something with just given this instrument? Right.
Yeah. And I think Alizade piece was the only
one that had the necklace. Right. That was the
only preparation. really yeah yeah but even like
the compositions like you know uh fractured bells
it did sound like bells you know it's a beautiful
that and that's that's traditional rotation and
traditional performance technique uh for for
my audience please uh that name of the album
is called mirage and you can listen to this album
on wherever you listen to the music spotify itunes
and all that right yeah great now is there anything
else you want to add to this album about this
album yeah i think the listener will decide how
effective these imitations are you know and what
works and maybe think about why or why not you
you talk about promoting and preserving cultural
diversity through music and It was really there.
The word culture itself carried so many layers
like language, faith, food, upbringing, climate,
geopolitical nonsense sometimes or many times,
and to even daily rituals. So here we are both
living in a city of 8 .5 million people. We are
surrounded by countless versions of cultures.
I find that not everyone is truly cultural. You
know what I mean? Like where we might live side
by side with people from every background, but
often culture is defined by zip code, lifestyle
or social circles. You know what I mean? Yeah.
So when you think about culture and being cultural,
what does that mean to you? How do you connect
to your own heritage? We're going to talk about
your heritage, but while staying open to the
diversity that surrounds you, how does the philosophy
inform the way you make? or teach music? Well,
yeah, you speak about people kind of being separate,
right? And I think for us as artists, we aim
to cross boundaries, right? I think that's just
part of being an artist. And so when we think
of cultural diversity, like you said, it can
look like a place like New York City. It can
also look like a single institution. or a single
teacher who chooses to educate through the lens
of diversity. And I think that particular one,
the last one, is especially important because
it affects young people and it takes place in
a school setting, which is one of those few places
where we mix, right? Where we can cross the fences
that... keep us apart, whether it is educational,
cultural, economic. And I think when you think
about a single institution or an organization
doing work, cultural diversity also exists within
Western classical music, right? But it needs
to be more fully acknowledged. So when I work
with Nana Ogwo and We put together programs for
the new music series run by the Leschetizky Association
here in the city. We keep in mind this diversity,
but we do not advertise the concerts as diverse
per se, because we consider this the norm, right?
And one other way that I think of diversity is
through our curricula, for example. This past
June, I attended a conference at NYU that was
dedicated to the pedagogy of music theory, including
global traditions, popular music, underrepresented
composers. And at one point, we examined seven
college theory textbooks. 99 % of the material
covered Western classical music, and very specifically
from the second half of the 18th through the
19th century. And there was a heavy emphasis
on harmony. So I think this can be a little problematic,
as wonderful as it is to delve deeply into something,
because it can leave us isolated once we leave.
conservatories. And then we, my colleagues and
I, we need to self -educate and keep a broader
musical worldview in mind. But for me, cultural
diversity is always driven by this motivation
to discover something new and interesting. But
tell me a little bit about you use the word isolated,
feeling isolated. Did you feel that after you
graduated and feels like, oh, I'm just curious
about that? Yes, I think. Well, yes, I did because
of the environment in which I taught. Right.
So you imagine. that you would be perhaps just
teaching piano lessons in a school, much like
the one that many of us would have attended.
But my first job was at Queensborough Community
College. And I've been there for, I think, like
15 years now. So I started working part -time
as an adjunct. And then in 2016, I got a full
-time position there. And so this is a community
college setting. It was it has been a wonderfully
supportive community, which is why I've stayed
for so long. And also, it's very much representative
of Queens. I think there are over 100 languages
spoken there. Yeah. In the bar of Queens. Right.
Yeah. And then in addition to this. variety.
There was the variety of what I was assigned
to teach. So the experience, our primary experience
is with one -on -one lessons, but there I teach
class piano, introduction to music. These are
courses for non -majors and a class called musicianship,
which is Let's say music theory fundamentals
with some basic piano and ear training. So I
think in a setting like that, you are forced
to adapt because you need to reach your audience.
And in this case, the audience could be students
who have had lots of experience and students
who are entirely new to music. And you need to
reach them. through some common language or through
something that they have never seen and they
are oddly fascinated. So I think this kind of
adapting has been a trademark of my teaching
because every year I had revised what I taught
there, depending on what I saw and how the students
responded. Wow. Your students are lucky to have
you. Yeah. Thank you. I want to take classes
from you now. So then let's talk about. Your
personal story, as much as you can. I want to
hear your story of resilience and reinvention,
you know, crossing borders, not only geographically,
but musically. You've shared that your multicultural
background and experience as a war refugee from
Bosnia and Herzegovina deeply inform your commitment
to cultural diversity through music. You were
born and raised in Sarajevo, right? Yes. During
the incredible turbulent time in the 1990s. So
am I correct? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Could you
take us back to that period? I mean, not to dwell
on the hardship or anything, but to help us understand
what it was like to live through that time. Because
I was on the other end, right? I was watching
the news every day. about that so and then you
know you pack up everything and to begin again
in a different country and then how those experiences
shaped your outlook as an artist and human being
yeah well my first piano lessons took place in
the primary music school in Sarajevo and I think
that was when I was eight or so because one could
attend a regular school and a music school where
you would go twice a week for piano and solfège.
And like all education in former Yugoslavia,
this was free education. So that's something
that I have come to realize the value of, you
know, after coming to the United States. And
I don't come from a family of musicians. So studying
piano gave me a sense of independence and a sense
of identity. Then four years after that, everything
was interrupted with the start of war. And Yugoslavia
was no more. My city came under... what would
be the longest siege in modern European history.
Like three, four years, right? That's right.
Longer, actually. So my mom, my brother and I
became war refugees at that time. Most of my
family stayed behind, including my dad, who was
able to join us later. when we arrived to the
United States, and I was 13 at that time. The
town that we resettled in, Glen Cove on Long
Island, is one of the most diverse places on
Long Island. So that kind of fits into the story,
you know, coming from Sarajevo, which was very
diverse in its own way, to Glen Cove, and having
one of these teachers like The one that I mentioned
to you when speaking about cultural diversity
in high school there, who introduced us to a
lot of things that New York City had to offer
and also introduced me to American music. And
then, of course, later I went on to Eastman.
So I spent a little time in Rochester and I returned
to New York for my graduate studies. So oddly
enough. All of my time in the U .S. has been
spent in New York State. Wow, okay. But luckily
for me, through the turmoil of these war years
and refugee life, the way that my family maintained
a sense of stability and normalcy was by helping
me continue. music studies in whatever way that
was possible, whether that was in former Yugoslavia
or when we resettled in New York. And this is
when I really benefited from music and realized
its power and its value, because many people
would consider music study unnecessary and completely
impractical, especially for a refugee. But my
mother understood that for me and for my brother,
who also played, music was a healing presence.
It was a steady friend and a steady ground in
new environments. And practically, that meant
making hard decisions about where you put your
resources. But today, when I play and when I
teach, I am very much aware. of this important
connection that one can have to music. I'm aware
of the sacrifice or rather devotion would be
a better word that music study demands and of
the role it can play as a lifeline and as a source
of support for someone else. That's a powerful
statement, especially someone like you who went
through that time period of your life and such
a such a critical age people say right 12 13
right and made that move and family moved out
of oppressions so it's clear that you have transformed
your life experience into a profound creative
force how do you your memories and heritage continue
to shape your artistry the way you play and teach
and connect with audiences well I think the important
thing is always to remain true to yourself, to
be honest to yourself. And I encourage my students
to do the same. So you do this by selecting repertoire
that you can connect deeply with. And I also
aim for this sincerity in the delivery of repertoire.
So I think. In one way, the heritage and all
this innovation that comes are just a natural
process for me. That's how I have experienced
it. Every artist encountered some kind of struggle
at different points in their growth. Were there
moments in your early training, whether physical,
artistic, or philosophical, that you only later
understood as struggles that shaped the direction
you eventually took? I'm not sure that it was
a struggle for me in that sense. For me, it always
seemed like a series of things that needed to
get done. And if this is what was presented to
me, that's what I learned. So it only came later
with reflection that I decided to seek out some
new things. And it's only really now that I'm
also learning, like you say. Are there different
scales? Are there different things? There was
a book I discovered called Other Classical Music.
Oh, I want to read it. Other Classical Music.
I have to look for it. So, you know, this exploration
continues. But, you know, some of the struggle,
for example, can come from the fact I have a
relatively small hand. And, you know, if you
are studying with people who come from traditional
Rachmaninoff and Liszt, you know, in some way,
yeah, that is a struggle. I mean, you keep doing
what, you know, what is assigned. I will never
forget the moment I was at Cornell at one of
Malcolm Bilson's programs there in the summer.
And I touched a forte piano and all of a sudden
it fit my hand perfectly. So that was one of
those wonderful moments when you actually realize
that you might have been struggling without knowing.
I'm thinking if there were other moments like
that. I think it also has to do with having a
teacher who might allow your voice. to exist
more fully. A lot of times in instruction, you
will be corrected constantly, right? You will
do something and you will be given an alternative
or some way that this music should be. And I
remember when I came for my doctoral studies
at the Graduate Center, Ursula Oppens was this
kind of teacher for me. She would kind of look
at me and say, well, what do you think? You know,
at first I was like, well, you tell me what I
should think. So that was really, really freeing.
And I think I find that same freedom in new music.
Because it's something. where I feel I can bring
myself, where I can focus on creating a story
in sound without too many preconceptions, that
I can go through the discovery process myself
without shoulds. You know, this should be this
way or that way. I think it keeps it incredibly
alive. I'm grateful to my colleagues at the Graduate
Center who introduced me to new music. You know,
I told you at that point, I only played like
one piece from 1964. But playing new music for
me is like being a part of a living process.
A lot of the times, you know, I'm thinking of
this word struggle that you mentioned. doing
a kind of archaeological process. We are excavating,
we are preserving and while that's worthwhile
and needed, something new has to come out of
something old. It's the only natural way and
I think new music does this for me and I enjoy
also the community of new music. The open -mindedness,
the interest in creating, connecting. And in
a way, it's like a healthy relationship, don't
you think? It's not much of a competition, because
you're not really aiming to play this one famous
piece performed by thousands of people, you know
what I mean? That's right. And you're not placed
in that line. A lot of audiences in our... kind
of insular world will go to a concert and evaluate
for the sake of ranking somebody in this long
line of people who had played a particular piece.
And you don't have that in new music. It becomes
less about us, I think, as performers and more
about what we are presenting. And I really appreciate
that. I'm not a big fan of the spotlight. I think
all my life I have preferred to practice more
than perform until I really discovered new music.
Because there was a spontaneity that I did not
feel I could always achieve. So maybe that can
answer your question about struggle. You know,
that for me, this lack of spontaneity perhaps
was... source of struggle because i was thinking
we could fix it by composing our own music we
could fix it by like what i've tried by relating
to these less confined folk traditions um or
maybe not fix it address it you know explore
it in this way right right yeah and also if i
wanted to go you know perform or learn contemporary
music then you know, in my time when I was young,
it was all about 20th century atonal. And although
I loved, but then I can't just play them all
the time. I need to go back to tonal music or
some sort of, I want to hear a cadence or something.
So in that sense, do you think that 21st century,
this contemporary compositions are sort of coming
back to tonal and also you know, blending of
folk music like we talked about. Do you think?
Yeah, I think the palette is just so incredibly
wide. So you never know what you're going to
discover. And also what I like is that I can
always find something that I truly enjoy. You
think that? Yeah. The next day, Taro asked Kaguya,
What troubles you, my dear daughter? It is said
that one should never look at the moon for too
long. I have seen you several times these past
days kneeling, looking at the moon. So, you...
Hinted about storytelling. So I want to get there
because you explore the storytelling through
visual mediums, combining sound and imagery and
motion to create immersive experiences. You've
collaborated with shadow puppeteers and other
visual artists. And I saw a little bit of a behind
the scene kind of YouTube. clip that you posted
on your website. Wow, incredible. Tell us more
about that. Yes, so as I was finishing my doctoral
studies, the final recital included this piece
that I mentioned earlier, Debussy's La Boîte
à Joujou, the toy box. And Debussy indicated
that this is a ballet for children or marionettes.
So I thought that wouldn't it be wonderful to
present this using shadow puppetry? And a friend
of mine, a wonderful artist by the name of Zahra
Partovi, introduced me to Caroline Borderis,
who is a French shadow puppeteer who has worked
in New York for many years and lived in New York
for many years and done many shows, especially
at the Metropolitan. So I got to meet Caroline
and our first collaboration was on this Debussy
ballet. So we told the story of the ballet and
there is a solo piano score accompanying it.
Then after that, we did a few productions where
we used shadow puppetry to really clarify the
action. So it was more like a recital. with shadow
puppetry visuals. And then more recently, we
have done a lot of work with the Charles B. Wang
Center in Stony Brook. Caroline had been performing
there for some time. And usually we're asked
to create original stories that relate to their
exhibitions. So, so far, I think we have done
six. original productions. And this has also
been a wonderful way for me to discover new repertoire
because we're primarily dealing with Asian cultural
or artistic traditions. So discovering, you know,
some music by Chinese composers, Korean composers,
Japanese composers, even I played some music
by Komitas, you know, depending on what the story
is. And this has been the segment that you referred
to, the behind the scenes. Yes, that's one of
our favorite parts. And it really shows, it's
a way to connect to the audience. So we, after
the show, there will be a Q &A and the audience,
many of whom are children, are invited to go
backstage and see how this ancient art form works.
So this is the most contact I've actually had
with an audience post an event. And I think it's
really effective. There's something very intimate
about this medium. You know, we cannot perform
it because of the size of the screen. We cannot
perform it in a very large hall. There is usually
a single instrument and narrator. oftentimes
so it's it's been a joy for me to do this and
i think it draws upon a childhood dream of working
in disney at disney studios and writing or selecting
music for their animated shows so i have so much
freedom they are wonderful to work with i get
to explore repertoire i never would the stories
are educational, they're fun, they're really
moving. And I have, you know, I've been really
blessed to have found this as a creative outlet.
Wow. And then what sort of stories do I get?
Do you pick a modern story or do you create a
completely original? Was there a writer? So I
remember we did a show that was based on some
of Rumi's poetry. So we would take poems and
then retell those stories. Then we had done a
show called the Xiang Yang Tricks the King. And
this is based on a folk character from Laos.
and uh really these are stories about how this
little you know xiang miang gets to a better
life by tricking everyone along the way so this
was one of the humorous ones we have done there
also some holiday presentations like nutcracker
with piano and shadow puppetry we have done stories
about traditional ways of making textiles So
we would create a story perhaps of a mother teaching
her daughter this and what this means. So it
depends what the exhibition is. Before that,
we had done a show that was all about water.
And so it was a bunch of piano pieces inspired
by water. And then the stories, you know, that
they told or a lot of them. you know would just
be suggested by the title and we would elaborate
on that and then you get to pick pieces that
you want to play according to the story yes yes
exactly absolutely i'm it's just me and i get
to do all this as i like so yes i i really enjoy
it and how do you pick these um you you have
to you must spend so many hours of research extensive
research to find derived pieces contemporary
pieces mainly or do you use some yeah at first
i start you know i would draw from what i knew
i would be thinking about pieces and thinking
oh what could fit in this scene etc so a lot
of those were like impression a lot of impressionistic
music but in recent years yes it has been a lot
of research And I do one of my favorite activities,
which is go down the YouTube rabbit hole and,
you know, search and try to be authentic, you
know, so it doesn't look like some sort of parody,
especially if it's a tradition I'm not familiar
with. They have another show coming up this year.
I was busy because the show was earlier on. And
usually it's a December show, but they have it
on November 9th. And this time my husband is
doing live electronic music for the show. Your
husband is a musician? Yes, he is. So I've asked
him to take over this time and help out. Oh,
wow. What a collaboration. Now, then you also
have this, another project that you do, like
you are the founding. member of Ensemble 365.
So can you tell us about that? Yes, that was
something I did in the past several years right
after graduating from the CUNY Graduate Center.
I formed a group with some of my colleagues and
we worked together. One of our projects which
fits this theme of multicultural music were a
series of recitals and the recording that came
out of it called Eastern Currents. So that was
all dedicated to contemporary music from Asia.
There were some trios, duets, some works featuring
composers from the Graduate Center. And since
then, most of us have kind of gone our individual
ways and life has gotten busy. But I continue,
I'm looking forward to doing... Something again
with my flute and piano duo. This is with, again,
with another colleague from the Graduate Center,
Roberta Michel, who actually introduced me to
real new music and showed me how not to be frightened
by it. So I hope that in this coming year, I'll
be able to do something with her again. There
is always a kind of multicultural slant to the
programming. But that's in terms of collaborative
work. That's where I am now. Last year, when
I was on my sabbatical from Queensborough, I
worked on a two piano program with pianist Vladimir
Valyarevich. And this was a program dedicated
to music. that was influenced by the sound of
bells and other metallophones. So it was titled
Tintin Abulations. And there was a more recent
work by Nina C. Young that was inspired by the
bells that, Danilov bells that hang at Harvard.
There was Poulenc's Sonata. a work by Crum at
the first moment of his otherworldly resonances,
and a transcription of Balinese gamelan by Colin
McPhee. So this was the program, and I'm hoping
that we're working on doing video recordings
of this. So I hope I can share this with the
viewers soon. Oh, wonderful. As you mentioned,
you're a professor at Queensborough. Are you
still a professor at Queensborough Community
College? Yes, I am. And then recently, was it
recent that you joined Columbia University as
a faculty member? Yes. This is my fourth year
at Columbia, yes. Oh, wow. That's a big position.
And you have also taught pedagogy at Manus as
well, right? also contributed the groundbreaking
volume humanistic pedagogy across the disciplines
approaches to mass atrocity education in the
community college context which explores the
use of music and arts to foster empathy and social
awareness tell me more about this writing Well,
that came out of a series that we did several
years ago in collaboration with the Kupferberg
Holocaust Center, which is located on Queensborough
Community College campus. And it was a program
funded by the grant, the National Endowment for
Humanities grant. The goal was to help our students.
become aware of history and current events and
to develop better listeners and active participants
in today's society. So in terms of the music
activities that were tied to that program, there
were a series of presentations, study units,
assignments. And we wanted to help students translate
the history of genocide, displacement and exile,
which was the theme of the whole project, into
personal stories told through music. And this,
you know, I think the whole experience based
on the responses that we got and the artifacts
that we collected was that students got to thanks
to music students got to experience and vividly
live someone else's music story right and that
music became a medium for healing and reflection
so In one of the projects, students collected
personally meaningful repertoire, and they noted
how music served as a mirror also that can hold
all of us accountable for things that happen.
And it works very well within the community that
is Queensborough. And the chapters that we wrote
and that were assembled and edited and put into
that volume came out of that particular program.
In terms of adapting. One common thing that guides
all my teaching because of the bumpy road that
I myself have had, you know, with interruptions,
with, you know, having other interests and at
times, you know. career in music did not always
seem like it would be likely, I tried to make
the learning process for my students easier.
So with fewer corrections, with fewer things
to fix later on. And I really believe in self
-directed education. So that's something. That
would be the common thread between all of these
places where I teach. And, you know, the thing
is, I teach different things there, as I mentioned
earlier. There are courses, you know, group courses
at Queensborough and at Columbia. These are one
on one lessons. At Columbia, when I read student
comments at the end of the semester, oftentimes
they focus on. the satisfaction of personal achievement
and the fact that music was that kind of safe
oasis for them amidst all their other things
that are going on in their lives. Oh, how wonderful.
So at Columbia, you also, are they non -music
majors? Correct. So currently I have a studio
of eight students. In the past, I would... have
12 it depends how we you know are able you know
how many students there are and how we divide
them amongst ourselves but yes i think i have
two students who are music majors and others
study other things some come with quite extensive
prior experience and some are beginners Oh, how
fun. Yeah. Yeah. It really is. It really is.
Yes. And I appreciate the one -on -one because
we get to really become, you know, friends. Let's
get into some philosophical conversation here.
Like in a time when the role of classical musicians
is constantly evolving, you know, and what do
you see as the artist's responsibility to society
today? Well, you know, we have to be that mirror
of our world, but at the same time, encourage
people to see things in new ways. I think in
that way, we... cross all these boundaries. Always,
you know, seeking that best of humanity. Then
also, because you're teaching at college and
there are some major music majors, piano majors.
So how do you encourage those young pianists
to find their authentic voices while, you know,
remaining rooted in the classical tradition?
I mentioned earlier that I believe in self -directed
education. It's really the only kind of education
that we can have when you think about it. Yes,
we can offer so much to our students, but unless
they take it in their own direction and apply
it in ways that matter to them, it needs to be
continued this way. So I think our job as teachers
is really just the beginning of that journey.
So it needs to be a lifelong journey. And I think
studying classical music really gives a great
foundation. We learn to understand this language,
its vocabulary. And with these tools, we can
then understand something else if that's what
we choose to do. And obviously, like as a tradition
itself, it's full of beauty and wisdom and creativity.
And I don't know, I think it, I don't know, it
sets a standard, you know, it's not something
that can be created quickly, right? It requires
skill, it requires reflection, it requires knowledge.
And especially in the times that we live in,
it is really good that it cannot be consumed
in 30 -second bites, right? So I think this is
the strength that it gives us. What do you think
the role of educator now? Because people have
access to many things. They can listen to music
almost for free, right? Which wasn't the case
before internet. And I had to go and discover
the music at the store. And then even this one
store can't have everything. But now it's a plethora
of music of any genre. right so if even in comes
in a video format as well so then the some adult
students would come to me and say oh i can i
learned chopin scherzo number two by watching
i was like what and then he's like super beginner
so there are so many wrong finger numbers to
the technique and everything but the You can
hear the music. You can hear the scherzo at the
beginning. I was so impressed. So in a way, people
can learn from videos and so on. So what do you
think the role of educator these days? Well,
you have to help them sift right through all
the material that's there. So there are guidelines
you can suggest. Oftentimes, you know, in my
classes, I will draw. from certain YouTube channels
and tell them, okay, these are sources I think
that will be helpful to you. And if you mentioned
this kind of learning, which we have all encountered,
then, you know, you can show, like sometimes
I would show, for example, Irina Gorin's videos,
you know, where she would do a short technical
demonstration. And you have students try this
and then decide, you know, which do you think?
you would rather do. So it becomes kind of their
own decision. And you are helping them find a
way through this jungle of everything, pretty
much. And if you say, go listen to a piece, then
you have to say, please find a few recordings.
Tell me what you listened to. Why did you pick
this? I mean... That has been there also before,
I think, you know, we might have had students,
you know, who heard Glenn Gould and then decided,
oh, I'm going to imitate Glenn Gould, right?
That's something that I could imagine happening
before. Yes, so I think what we give to our students
really is our own experience in which we have
shed all the things that did not serve us. And
so we can offer them this filter in a way. Like,
listen, you know, I've changed my technique many
times. And like I mentioned, I tried to save
my students from this process. Right. So I can
share my own story and say, yes, please do not
play this way. Even if your body is somehow able
to withstand this, don't do it because there
is a better way. I think sometimes I think about
this because they will make their own mistakes
and it will push them in one direction or another.
So personal experience like this is valuable.
I think what we offer is our own and kind of
advise them. this way, try to help them navigate
the many things that are there, ask them questions,
ask them to reflect. I always begin when I see
my students, especially when I meet my new students,
it's always like, what is your goal? What would
you like? And then we kind of build from there.
We're almost coming to an end of our conversation,
but before we wrap up, I'd love to hear what
you're currently working on. And any upcoming
performances or recordings of any projects maybe
you can reveal to us today? I have these upcoming
video recordings that I would like to make of
that program, Tintin Abulations. And so I'm working
on that as my teaching schedule allows. And I
am trying to put together a program of... contemporary
flute and piano music with my friend, flutist
friend, Roberta Michelle. So that's kind of what
I'm keeping in mind for the next few months.
Wonderful. Now, when you think about your journey
from Sarajevo to New York, from performer to
educator, what do you hope your legacy will be?
I know you're still very young, but both artistically
and personally. I would like to be remembered
as someone who helped create moments of beauty
with my community. Maybe be remembered as kind
of that annoying person who insisted on high
standards. Maybe. Other than that, you know,
just being a good. You know, parent, good daughter,
good partner, good friend. It sounds like the
pioneer pledge I gave when I was seven in former
Yugoslavia. I promised to be a good student and
a faithful friend. You did? Really? Wow. Yeah.
And which I'm sure you are. And I mean, you were
because you were supportive for coming to the
live show about a month ago and really meant
a lot. So, yeah, thank you. It was really wonderful.
And I'm so glad that you're bringing us all together
and showcasing the variety and really amazing
work that's being done. Thank you. Yeah, I really
wanted to showcase that, you know, four different
stories, but just contributing to the society
and the communities, different communities by,
you know, music and music education. So, yeah.
Bravo. Oh, thank you. Yeah, bravo to you too
for your dedication. So for our listeners and
viewers, please go to... MyrnaLekic .com, which
is M -I -R -N -A -L -E -K -I -C .com to learn
more about Myrna's amazing albums and also the
shadow puppeteer that she mentioned today. And
also you can listen to her music on iTunes and
Spotify and so many other music streaming services.
All right, then. The rapid fire questions segment
is here. Now we take this segment very seriously.
You've shared your stories and expertise today,
but these questions carefully curated by our
team, which is me, will give our listeners a
glimpse into who you truly are. So let's do this.
Now, please answer each question with the shortest
response possible. No explanation is necessary.
Are you ready? Yes. All right. Level one, fun
and light. Number one, what is your comfort food?
Chicken soup. Oh, so good. How do you like your
coffee in the morning, Myrna? I don't drink coffee.
Just water. Just water? Not even tea? Sometimes,
yes, I drink tea sometimes, though not in the
morning always. Coffee gets me too hyper. Oh.
I love the taste. Cats or dogs? Dogs. Sunrise
or sunset? Sunset. Summer or winter? Summer.
Level two, it gets a little difficult. Okay.
What skill have you always wanted to learn but...
Haven't had a chance to. There's so many. But
musically related, maybe composition, improvisation,
things like that. I know, right? Yeah, me too.
Yeah. All right. What is your word or words to
live by? I would say persist. Favorite venue
you have performed in or maybe dream venue, but
favorite venue. That is an excellent question.
I once auditioned at the Performing Arts Center
at the University of Maryland. And I remember
the light in the venue and the wonderful piano.
I think it's the Clarice Smith Performing Arts
Center. Really? Wow, that's very... Maybe that
one. I love venues that have light, lots of light.
And this is why I thought of this one. Now, what
is the most important quality you look for in
other people? I would say sense of responsibility.
Name a composer you wish more people knew about.
Frangiz Ali Zadeh. Also my husband, my husband,
Andre Bregeger. Okay, Andre Bregeger. Okay, I
will look him up on Spotify. Is his music on
Spotify? Yes, there should be some there and
on his website. And he does mostly electronic
music these days. Okay, cool. I'll check him
out. Now, level three, two more questions to
go. Name one piece in your current playlist.
Oh, you know what? I don't have a playlist. Oh,
I don't. It seems like I have music, you know,
with me throughout the day. And I don't listen
to it when I walk. I know, right? Yeah, usually
like I just, you know, seek out things as I need
them. Yeah, I found that a lot of musicians are
like that. And then I thought of myself. I don't
have it either. I don't listen to music in such
a pleasure way. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's
a part of our job. So I'd rather listen to podcasts,
actually. The words. Absolutely. Right. I miss
listening to words. All right. The last question.
Fill in the blank. Music is blank. Music is essential.
That's the first one. Yeah, no one said that
before. Mirna, thank you so much for joining
us today and for sharing your artistry and spending
time with me like this and your thoughtful, thoughtful...
reflections and insights with such openness and
creativity and grace. And to our audience, if
you would like to explore more of Myrna's incredible
work, please visit her website at myrnalekic
.com and listen to her acclaimed recordings available
wherever you listen to music. And of course,
a huge thank you to all of you, our dedicated
listeners, for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's
episode, please give it a thumbs up and subscribe.
to the PianoPod on YouTube. And also share and
review this episode on your favorite platform
and tag us at PianoPod. It's one of the best
ways to help us, our community grow. And we love
hearing your feedback. For the latest updates,
guest news, and stories that inspire creativity
and connection, follow the PianoPod on Substack,
TikTok, Instagram, and LinkedIn. We'll see you
in the next episode of the PianoPod. Thanks again,
Myrna. Thank you so much. Thank you.