Hello friends, welcome to a new episode of the
PianoPod. And this one is a little different,
because it comes straight from our very first
live event, the PianoPod Live in Concert, which
took place and was recorded on October 4, 2025
at Stiefel Hall at the New School in collaboration
with Manus Prep. This project had been cooking
for over a year, and it finally happened. For
me, it was truly a dream come true, a moment
where I could bring together all parts of my
background in piano, education, and journalism
broadcasting. Those live hosting chops had to
be dusted off, but after years of producing this
show, I felt completely at home on stage again.
And oh boy, so many people showed up. The hall
was full of energy with artists, educators, students,
and longtime listeners coming together to celebrate
creativity and connection through music and conversation.
A huge thank you to Manus Prep and their director,
Caroline Sonnet Asser, for their partnership
and generosity in making this collaboration possible.
And of course, to Donna Wang Friedman, who was
not only one of our featured guests, but also
one of the show's biggest supporters for connecting
us and helping us this wonderful collaboration
come to life. If you are new to The Piano Pod,
please visit thepianopod .com and follow us on
YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts to catch
more inspiring conversations and performances.
And now, please enjoy this special episode, The
Piano Pod Live in Concert, a bold new chapter
in classical music. You are listening to The
Piano Pod, where we talk to the brightest minds
in the industry about how they are bringing the
piano into the future and thriving in a complex,
ever -evolving world. Good afternoon, everyone,
and welcome to the PianoPod Live in Concert,
a bold new chapter in classical music. My name
is Yukimi Song, and I am the host and the creator
and executive producer of the PianoPod. It's
an award -winning podcast and YouTube show that
I started in 2020 that amplifies candid conversations
with leading artists exploring how classical
music stays relevant, human, and connect it to
modern audiences. It's such a joy to see all
of you here. I can't believe you guys are here.
It's a dream come true for me, and you are making
the piano part history with me. So thank you
so much for being here. And I also want to make
a quick shout out to those who are tuning in
later when this event becomes an episode. You
are definitely with us in spirit. Now, years
ago, I was teaching piano door to door, literally
running around this neighborhood like a crazy
maniac person. And at one point, I had over 40
students a week. It was survival, and I survived.
But it gave me the front row view of how music
education was perceived. And I couldn't notice
the disconnect that I felt. And as musicians,
we understand that the discipline and daily practice
lead to growth and ultimately transformation
at any level of learning. But to many families,
the piano lessons are simply an after -school
program for their children. So in the meantime,
I also kept hearing among fellow musicians, fellow
pianists, that, oh, classical music is dying.
It's dead. And also, I've read a few articles
expressing that sentiment. So those contrasting
perspectives, what I was witnessing as a teacher
and hearing from my peers, made me question whether
my vision was outdated. And you know, in our
field, often we... feel detached from everyday
life, and then the voices of educators and performers
like myself can easily go unheard. So out of
desperation, in 2020, with a microphone in my
hand, with one mission, I launched the PianoPod
and hoping to get some answers from my fellow
pianists and then fellow music educators. I also
wanted to merge my background in piano and teaching
and journalism into a space where musicians can
share stories, struggles, and passions without
any judgment. And my goal was, and still is,
to bridge the gap between classical music and
modern audiences, making what we do relevant,
impactful in the communities that we serve. Since
then, I conducted over 100 interviews. From Grammy
winners to Steinway Yamaha artists to innovative
piano pedagogues to neuroscientists. And, you
know, what I discovered is that this industry
is very much alive. It's not dying at all. It's
actually evolving to something different or maybe
keeping the same tradition but presenting in
different ways. Buzzing with... daring and inventive
voices, that discovery, inventive voices. And
then that discovery truly encouraged me profoundly.
And then today I'm standing in front of you after
five years of dreaming about this and for the
first time live event, and I'm so grateful. And
where I get to share that daring and inventive
spirit with you. through extraordinary artists
on stage today. I also want to thank you Manus
Prep, a pre -college music program offering comprehensive
and nurturing pre -professional training in the
new school for hosting us today. And then I have
been amazed by the state -of -the -art facilities
throughout this building. And look at these fine
instruments and the acoustics are amazing. So
I walked around this building and then all the
practice studios. have fine instruments, and
the interior design of the school is so modern.
I love it. So discovering this truly brainwashed
me, my excitement, to partner with Manus Prep
today and as the school demonstrates their commitment
to music education. Special thanks to Caroline
Sonnet -Asser, director of Manus Prep. for her
invaluable support, as well as other menace personnel
I've got to work with in prep for this event.
Now, lastly, a shout out to Donna Wing Friedman.
She is the honored faculty member here whom I
adore, who is one of the great guest artists
today for helping to facilitate this collaboration.
Now, today, what we do is we bring together four
pianist thought leaders. starting with Dr. Jihoon
Kerska, Eleanor Byneman, Nena Ogwo, and Donna
Wang Friedman. I have interviewed all four of
them in the past, and each artist today embodies
creativity, innovation, and a deep commitment
to community. And those qualities are the very
heart of our current season's theme, Creativity
in Connection. Now, we'll start out with the
four. performances back to back afterwards we'll
sit down i'll sit down with all four artists
on stage and we'll have have an interview session
afterwards now you get to participate by asking
us questions so i want you to stick around till
the end i won't i'm not going to make you uh
stay for a long time so it's going to be a an
hour event so please stick around now of the
hall you'll find a table where you can find postcards
and flyers from each artist as well as from the
pianoforte please feel free to take them on your
way out it's a fantastic way to learn more about
what we do what each artist is doing and also
to stay connected beyond today Now, let's begin
our concert finally segment with Dr. Jihoon Kerska.
Her journey has taken her from Juilliard training
to MIT, pursuing a career in electrical engineering.
While she has also collaborated with world -renowned
artists like Yo -Yo Ma, she is also the founder
of Keys to Success, a program that provides free
piano education to young people in New York.
When I first spoke with her in Season 3, I was
struck by her story and her vision, especially
her powerful words on inclusion and what it means
to truly connect with people, which had a profound
impact on me, and that conversation remains one
of the most memorable episodes of The Piano Pop.
Today, she will perform Rachmaninoff's Prelude
Op. 23 No. 2 in B -flat major, a fiery piece
perfectly suited to her passion. Please welcome
Dr. Jihoon Kerska. her story, please visit season
three. I believe it was episode 11 or 12. She
talks about her organization and her life story.
It's beautiful. Now, let me ask, how many of
you are pianists here today? We'll play the piano.
Great. Wonderful. Now, how many of you love playing
Bach all day long? Oh, great. One person. Yes.
Thank you for being honest. I love the laugh.
Well, I love Bach music too, but sometimes pieces
like, you know, to be honest, the Volta and Proclavia
is not always beginner friendly in terms of like
listening. So, and then also learning to fugue
is very difficult. Now, this is where our next
guest, Eleanor Bynum, shines. Through her innovative
Bach transcriptions and her widely followed YouTube
channel, she has reintroduced Bach's most beloved
works from the orchestral suites to the cello
suites. to pianists worldwide. I'm especially
delighted to join her on stage today to perform
her transcription of Johann Sebastian Bach's
Brandenburg Concerto No. 2 for four -hand piano.
Now, Brandenburg Concertos are among Bach's most
celebrated orchestral works, filled with joyful
energy and inventive interplay between instruments.
And if you are not familiar with the term transcription,
it simply means reimagining a work for a different
ensemble. So today, please enjoy Brandenburg
Concerto No. 2 arranged for four -hand piano.
Please welcome Eleanor Bindman. It's a challenging
but fulfilling field. If you ever are interested,
please talk to us afterward. Now, next artist
shows us just how powerful music can be as a
bridge to community. Dr. Nena Ogwu, who joined
me in season four, is the founder of Juneteenth
LP. Since our conversation, I've attended several
of her concerts in New York, culminating each
June 19th is a powerful celebration at the iconic
venue, Joe's Pub. To truly understand what it
means for classical pianists to connect with
their audiences, you must experience Juneteenth
LP's events in every June. Today, Nena performs
The Sun is Rising by Consuela Lee, a trailblazing
black composer whose work she champions. Please
welcome Dr. Nena Avro. Donna Wayne Friedman,
who is no stranger to this Manist community as
an honor faculty member here. And beyond her
brilliance as a pianist, Donna is a storyteller
who uses music and film to bring people together.
Through projects like Never Fade Away and A Silent
Cry, she has transformed deeply personal and
cultural narratives into works that resonate
far beyond the concert hall. She is truly a leader
in our field. with a bold, innovative vision
for how music can be used to tell powerful stories.
She and I will close this program together, performance
part, with William Hurt's Wizard of Oz fantasy,
dazzling forehand work based on beloved themes
from the film. Please welcome Donna Wink -Friedman.
At Manus Prep, we offer pre -college music training
for students ages 4 through 18, from beginners
just discovering their love of music to advanced
young artists who may be preparing for collegiate
music study. Each Saturday during the academic
year, our recital halls and classrooms are filled
with students rehearsing and performing in small
and large ensembles, studying theory and ear
training, practicing their instruments, and exploring
electives such as chamber music, film scoring,
musical theater, composition, As an all -Steinway
school, our young pianists can expect a practice
that performs on the finest instruments. In addition
to our curricular offerings, we program a wide
variety of extracurricular opportunities for
our students. We have regular workshops, recitals,
master classes with esteemed guest artists, and
hold yearly concerto competitions and faculty
-adjudicated creative showcases. What makes Madness
Prep truly special, though, is our community.
create, collaborate, and discover their own artistic
voices in a supportive and inspiring environment
led by dedicated faculty. Our students are really
incredible and they go on to do amazing things
in this world. Whether you dream of dedicating
your life to music or you simply love to make
music, Madness Prep is a place where you can
belong, learn, and thrive. you get to ask the
question. I have one who is asking a question
to each guest. So Jihoon, when you appeared on
my show three years ago, what stood out most
was your candid discussion on inclusion. You
also spoke openly about witnessing stark disparities
in access to quality music education in your
area, not just limited to your areas. But even
between, you know, neighborhoods so close to
each other, you see the stark difference. So
what was the missing that pushed you to create
Keys to Success? And what drove you to take that
step? So maybe just what I consider my formative
moments in my life growing up. So I was born
in Malaysia. I'm an immigrant, came over when
I was 11 years old. And just like most immigrant
parents, my parents came over with huge dreams
for what they wanted for their kids. And so my
mom called up Juilliard and got us in touch with
a wonderful woman. Her name is Olenia Fuski.
She was the director of the pre -college program
back then. Ms. Husky is actually the person that
made my immigrant story unique because she intercepted
my life and put it on a trajectory that I wouldn't
have been on without her, really. So with that
background, fast forward. 30 years later, I'm
very comfortable living in New Jersey with my
beautiful family. When my first son was born,
I realized that I started to realize the differences
in people's experiences in America based on the
zip code. I realized that I wanted my kids to
know me. the way I grew up. And so we just started
going to church in Newark, you know, where the
airport is, which is only like 10 miles away
from our neighborhood. But here's the difference.
In our neighborhood, New Providence, my kids
were getting free music lessons starting from
pre -K, instrumental music starting very early
on, almost semi -private coaching, all free.
And if we wanted to pay, We just went down the
street. And there was, you know, well, private
studios everywhere, for sure. But also community
music schools that were real good. Meanwhile,
in Newark, there was none of that. Under state
control, all the music had been stripped out
of the, and arts, actually, had been stripped
out from the school system. And I saw the effects
it had on the kids, starting at a very young
age. You know, even first grade, there was differences
in reading and math levels. And by third grade,
the levels in math and English were like several
grades apart by that time. And so I also noticed
something else in cities like Newark, which is
that there's actually a lot of money going in
for scholarship programs and building. state
-of -the -art concert venues, which is all very,
very, very important. However, programs like
that only reaches the top 1%, those that seem
naturally talented. Meanwhile, 99 % of the 40
,000 kids that grow up in Newark are not developed
to their full potential. So I wanted to stress
something different, something that addresses
the 99%. After working in electrical engineering
for 20 years, I changed paths and started a nonprofit,
Keys to Success. Then tell us about Keys to Success
and what's so unique about the organization.
So, I mean, on the surface, there's nothing that
unique about it. We give free piano lessons in
a group setting. We go into public housing. Maybe
that's a little bit unique. You know, we go there
every day. The reason we go into public housing
is because there's a lot of kids there and there's
a lot of other programs serving there. So it
makes it, it's a captive audience. So as it turns
out, I think most of us know, you know, the 10
,000 hour rule, you know, you just need to practice
and then you get good at it. So on the surface,
that's what we do. But we're really not strictly
a piano program. We're really about developing
leaders. So the goal of our students in our program
is to become urban fellows within our program.
So urban fellows are the teenage high school
interns that work with us. They don't just fill
out papers for us. They are actually the primary
teachers that we utilize. Because, you know,
for me to go into public housing, you know, when
I don't live there, the barriers that come up,
these kids are a little bit afraid. They don't
know who I am. But when you have teenagers that
grew up side by side with the younger kids and
their moms know each other, the barriers, they
don't exist. And the kids immediately learn.
And they also see themselves as they see the
possibilities in another person. So that's one
thing that's true. I would say it's unique about
what we do. The other thing that goes hand in
hand with that is we partner. And so you can
kind of see that as mirroring my life. In my
life, my parents were my champions. Actually,
my mom, who never played above like a grade three
level, and her sister were my primary teachers
for three years. Teaching is at home. And then,
you know, partnering with Miss Husky, who is
a world -class pianist, opened up doors for us.
So it's like both the at -home concern and world
-class partnerships. Yeah, and then you can learn
more about, I mean, I wish we had more time to
hear her story, but you can check out season
three, episode 11 or 12 that she appeared, and
you can go to thepianopod .com. And also, if
you want to learn more about her organization,
please go to keysnewwork .com. Thank you, Jihoo.
Thank you. So Donna, Thank you so much for playing
today with me. Oh, yeah, always fun. I'm so sorry.
I have to go teach, which is why I'm going next.
Now, Kuju, I know I interviewed you in season
two, and since then, so much has happened to
you and wonderful things. Yeah. Yes. But can
you tell us about this multi -award winning film,
Never Fade Away? I know you hinted the idea in
that episode we discussed, but can you tell us?
Well, Never Fade Away is my father's immigration
story. I never intended to make a movie because
I'm not a filmmaker. I'm a musician. But during
the pandemic, a lot happened. I think hate crimes
against our AAPI community were rising. I was
assaulted in the park while walking my dog. And
it became very important to me to share stories.
of heritage, not just of Asian Americans, but
of everybody's, because I do believe that these
stories connect us. Our stories of heritage are
the ties that bind, because we all come from
somewhere else, and we have, whether it's your
mother, your grandfather, your aunt or uncle,
their bravery, their courage to come to a country
where they didn't speak the language, didn't
have any money, And they made sacrifices for
all of us so that we could have better lives.
That's what this country is all about. So during
the pandemic, when all these things were happening,
I started creating programs with WQXR, the National
Women's History Museum, to share stories of underrepresented
musicians, musicians from underrepresented communities,
women, our BIPOC communities. And then finally
I started sharing my father's story, and I was
overwhelmed by the response. People were writing
in to me. I was doing this online, virtual performances,
and people were writing in to me, that's my father's
story too, that's my grandfather's story. And
so the story involves, it's basically about how
he came to this country with nothing but his
hopes and dreams, and how a radio and a waltz
changed his life. And that waltz became pivotal
because that was, you know, our connection. It
was a very special Chopin waltz. So when the
doors started opening, I started telling his
story and playing the waltz. And then through
my dear friend Stefania DeKennessey, who is here
today, the composer, I went to hear one of her
pieces performed, choreographed by Ariel Grossman
with the Ariel Rivka Dance Company. And it was
so breathtakingly beautiful. I asked Arielle,
I said, would you consider choreographing the
waltz so I can tell the story with dance? And,
you know, Arielle's amazing and she only really
choreographs for living composers. But when I
told her the story, you know, it resonated with
her too. So she did that. We started doing that
in person. And I think that's when we first met,
right? You came to one of the first concerts.
And then after one of these concerts where I
told the story and had the dance and it was beautiful,
a woman came over to me and she said, you really
have to make a film about this. She was a filmmaker.
And I said, oh, well, I'm not a filmmaker. She
goes, no, you really should think about that.
So I started thinking about it. And I started
thinking, okay, well, I'll just do the story
and maybe film the dance. And so I started setting
up, you know, a space to rent out the space.
And the dancers, I asked the dancers who had
been working together with me if they could do
it. And the male dancer, Jesse Obramski, who
portrayed my father, who was phenomenal. He couldn't
do it that day. He was on tour. And I'd already
put the deposit down for the space, and I was
going, oh, my God. And then I thought, you know,
why not ask my friend who is the pianist for
New York City Ballet? You know, at my age, I'm
not afraid to get no's. So I said, do you think
you could make an intro to me to Chen Wei Chen?
Chen Wei Chen is the first... ever uh principal
dancer of Asian descent at the New York City
Ballet in 75 years they never had one so he he
he is it and he dances like oh my god it's so
beautiful but so Alan said sure made an intro
we had a lovely conversation and Chen Wei said
send me the script and I did and then two days
later he called me this is my story too I will
do this And after I gained consciousness, I realized
that if I have someone like Chen Weichan on board,
I better not make it this four -minute little
thing. I better expand it a little bit. But,
you know, expanding it means funding and all
that sort of thing. So I did. So I literally
made this little film from the back end because
the dance comes at the end. And then I put in
the story of why my father left China. the reason
why he was forced to flee. And then I added another
little beginning part about my mom and some very
fun personal things. And I asked Chun if he would
kindly improvise the middle section when my father
is first in this country, and he did. So it was
the most personal project I've ever, ever made,
I think. I cried every single day because my
parents are not with me. And it was like bringing
them home again. And I wanted to do a good job
for them. I'm sorry, but it's so emotional. So
every single day, putting this together was like
a rollercoaster of emotions. And finally, it
was screening at NYU. for the world premiere,
and I told my husband, I said, I'm pulling it.
I'm not going to have it shown today because
I'm not a filmmaker, and why would I think anybody
would want to see a film about my family? And
my husband said to me, this may be your first
film, but you've been telling stories all your
life through music. And that's what you do. And
everyone has a story, and you need to share this
tonight. And you can't back out. And he's been
such a great supporter. So anyway, I went through
it. I don't even know if I breathed, but got
through it. And I'm very proud of this little
film, because since then it's won 46 awards and
film festivals worldwide. It's streaming on PBS,
Rhode Island, so you can see it on Arts Inc.
if you like. It's only 12 minutes. Again, I'm
not a filmmaker, but this story meant a lot to
me. Then I was just literally blown away when
I had received this invitation. Now, Never Fade
Away is archived at the Statue of Liberty at
Ellis Island in perpetuity. That shows you who
you are, and then that filmmaking bug got you,
and then you've made another one in Silent Cry.
I know you have so much to say about the film,
but as of now, when we were in the back room,
she was like, oh, I won another award. What I
do want to say about Silent Cry is I never meant
to make a film for this. It's just that the music
was so great. And I do want to talk about, just
for one more minute, about the music. I recently
recorded Microvids by Stefania DeKennessey, who
is with us here today. And she wrote Microvids
during the pandemic, too. I think a lot of us
became very creative during the pandemic. We
had space. Yeah, we had space, but we also had
motives. We had motivations. Stefania's motivation
was she was thinking about young people. Teens
and tweens, how they were coping during the pandemic.
Very tough time, you know. And so she wrote 19
miniatures, each one reflecting a different emotion
that we were all going through that time. But,
you know, in particular for this age group, I
call it classical music's answer to TikTok because
each miniature is 20 seconds to one minute in
length. In any case. We have this album. It's
on Spotify. And the 15th one, Clouds, the first
disc, we had the great, great violinist Curtis
Stewart, who is a Manus Prep alum. And he, six
-time Grammy -nominated violinist, improvises
like nobody's business. And I said, Curtis, would
you improvise with me on this album? And with
Stefania's blessing, of course. And it's outrageous.
It's so beautiful because he adds jazz. It's
like a mixture of classical and jazz, what he
does so well. Number 15 is Clouds. I could not
get it out of my head. I just couldn't. It was
just so powerful that I decided to put some visuals
with it. My daughter is in AI, and I saw her
post something on Instagram that was interesting.
I said, can you create this into a globe, a spinning
globe? So I started with that imagery, and then
I was reading about different things about saving
the planet and our equilibrium in the Appalachian
Mountains. And I started reading about these
stories and I said, you know, I really want to
just have a little message here. And if there's
nothing else to say, it's about the importance
of preserving what is irreplaceable in this world.
And so I put together this two -minute little
film. I call it A Silent Cry. If you ever see
it, you'll understand why. And I did it just
because I felt like it. And a week later, I put
it into, just for fun, a film festival. And it
won. And on Thursday, it received its 30th film
festival award in three months, which is crazy.
And it's up for, well, it's been submitted to
the Grammys in the music video. section, which,
you know, I have absolutely no expectations.
I just want to raise awareness that classical
musicians don't really, you know, are not really
part of that category, and we should be part
of every category. So my little film in my name
was right underneath David Byrne, Coldplay, Rihanna.
It's kind of cool. I'm proud of you. Thank you
so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Elena,
thank you so much for performing Brandenburg
with me. It's her transcription. So you've dedicated
years to arranging Bach from, you know, Brandenburg
duets to cello suites for piano to stepping stones
for Bach. Could you briefly introduce your Bach
transcriptions? What drew you to transcribe his
orchestral instrumental music for piano in a
specific niche? I'd love to do that, Yukimi,
but before that, I'd like to take an opportunity,
in case it doesn't arise anymore, to thank you.
We know how much work you put into this event
and how well you've done, and that's in the middle
of all of the other podcasts and scheduling December
ones and everything else that you do. playing
with you with a sheer pleasure. You're amazing.
So it's just unbelievable how much talent and
how many hats you wear. Thank you. Thank you.
And as far as my work, it's funny, I'm not tempted
to talk about my heritage because I'm also an
immigrant. But the Bach work is very much a part
of my cultural heritage, starting in the Russian
piano school back where I'm from. and my transcriptions
came about just out of a very selfish desire
to be able to play them. I've done transcriptions
prior, and of course, as many classical musicians
have done, Rachmaninoff transcriptions, Liszt
transcriptions. I always enjoyed the feeling
of transmitting other instruments, and preferably
an orchestra, just a very different feeling than
just playing something written for piano. It's
almost a different, not almost, it's a different
mindset. And I also loved playing duets, and
I had a piano duet partner with whom we tried
the existing transcription of the Brandenburgs,
which just unfortunately, much to my really shock,
it just was not playable. Well, it wasn't, yet
it was on people's shelves, and since having
done the Brandenburgs, I've had many kindred
souls write to me and say, yeah, no, you just
can't play the rigor. I thought that we really
need this body of work for the piano duet repertoire
by Bach, the six concertos done. And long story
short, I ended up redoing them. And it took a
very long time, but it was extremely gratifying
to play. And in between the three years that
it took me, between starting and making the recording,
an adult amateur friend of mine asked me about
a particular... beginning of one of the cantatas
called gotes zeit which a lot of people play
and she said i just can't find a transcription
that i like they're either too hard or they're
too easy or i don't like them so i looked and
i didn't find anything either and i did a little
two -hour thing and then i played that and it
was really satisfying to play and That really
gave me an understanding that what was missing
in the repertoire, especially transcriptions,
is our ideas about transcriptions are that they're
either virtuosic, thereby only playable by 1
% of the piano elite, basically, who usually
make them for themselves. or they're too simple
and they're missing the essence of the work,
or they're, you know, quote -unquote cheesy.
So I ended up also, as far as COVID, I did my
stepping stones to box set, which made me appreciate
how much people needed it because as people were
in lockdown, I had these 48 one -page transcriptions
of box. excerpts from his cantatas or other instrumental
works and I made them available to people from
my mailing list so every week there was a new
piece that they could practice because there
wasn't that much to do and I got so much great
feedback and so much appreciation and that made
me realize that there's a hole in the adult amateur
repertoire for pieces, not only by Bach, but
especially by Bach, that they can play without
having to work very hard, without all the frustration
of putting the counterpoint hands together. And
in general, I began to understand how important
adult amateurs are in the music business, you
know, in the classical music. because they're
the concert goers, they're the ones who are listening,
they buy the records, they collect. And yet,
as far as literature, they very often feel very
frustrated because they cannot be as good as
Horowitz or Yuja. And it's just kind of the state
of mind. So that took care of that. There were
a few other cycles I kind of got going, and it
felt, like the ladies were saying, it felt to
me like it was the right thing to do. It was
not anything that I set out. Then I did the cello
suites, which turned out to be the most interesting
focus into Bach's writing for one line at a time
and really gave me so much insight in his structure.
So I never looked at his keyboard. real keyboard
works with the same eyes because it gave me a
huge understanding. And I understood that there's
also a shortage of simpler Bach repertoire that's
even easier than the depart conventions that
people could enjoy playing. So then there were
the orchestral suites as a sequel to the Brandenburgs
and then the lute suites which just came out
this March. So that's my... Bach transcriptions.
And I really enjoyed playing your transcriptions.
And by the way, Eleanor generously printed out
a score of orchestral suite. The Badinuri, very
popular movement from orchestral suite. For you
to take home and you'll find them. You're welcome
to take that home. Yes, and then you can try
them. And if you try, I want you to video record
it and tag the piano part so that I can just
watch it. All right. Now, one more question for
you before. You know, you are reaching out to
adult amateurs, and then I got to know you through
one of the biggest fans of yours, and he recommended
me to reach out to you. So how do you reach out
to these markets? So what are some creative tools,
approaches you use to help adult amateurs connect
more deeply with the music? Well, the transcription
themselves, and that's something that is kind
of... two -way street because they already know
and love the music and they're able to play it.
And I create playlists of the originals of those
transcriptions so that they can listen on Spotify
or they can listen on iTunes or however they
listen because all the recordings are streaming
and they can... take part of that. And, you know,
finally, I have this little Bach action figure
that really makes my videos extremely popular.
And I think adults see that and, you know, whatever
childlike quality we all have, it kind of brings
that up and they just enjoy things more. So I
think, you know, using this, the idea of enjoyment,
which is, we all could use a little more of these
days as opposed to this. you know, very serious
and sometimes a bit of drudgery of practice before
you actually get somewhere is just something
that I think we're lacking. And also for piano
for younger students, as you were telling me,
a lot of times young students are, they think
it's very serious to play Bach and there's no
emotional connection. So it's the emotional connection
that Bach's other pieces are so different from
his keyboard music. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, more
melodic. more melodic and the brand he wrote
he was very young and he wrote them for fun he
didn't write them for church service it's just
a very different body of work it sounds so different
and then you told me he just like me he wore
lots of Hats, right? Yes, he wore a lot of hats
and wigs. Oh, that's right. Oh, I don't wear
wigs. No, no, unlike you. Well, you know, I'm
comparing myself to Barbara. I shouldn't have
done that. Anyway, well, thank you. If you want
to learn more about Eleanor, please go to EleanorBindman
.com, right? And then also, I forgot to mention
that DonnaWangFreedman .com if you want to watch
her films, and then also you can... Check her
out, her films on YouTube as well. All right,
Nena, finally. Oh, my goodness. Now, I want to
know a lot about Juneteenth LP, but before that,
just quickly tell us about the piece that you
performed, Consuelo Lee. The powerful performance.
Oh, my gosh, that piece was amazing. It's a beautiful
piece. I do a lot of work with... The American
Composers Alliance, I've become dear friends
with their executive director, Gina Genova. They
have a wonderful, dedicated staff that has been
doing amazing work preserving and archiving and
engraving the works of Black composers of the
20th century that are in their archives. And
so she introduced me to Consuela Lee's work.
And she told me to check out Ray of Light and
this piece, which is a transcription of a performance
that was done in, I think, the early 80s at Baruch.
And I played Ray of Light maybe two years ago
at Joe's Pub. And I was fortunate that her daughter
was there. And she gave me a rare recording of
her mom's. And she told me a lot about her mother.
And the transcription was interesting because,
you know, with transcriptions, and especially
as pianists, you know, when you have a recording
of, you know, Ravel playing Ravel or Rachmaninoff
playing Rachmaninoff, you know, there's a thing
attached to that, right? But it's Rachmaninoff
and then there's a score that he wrote. But this
was a transcription of an improvisation. And
we know that there are bits and pieces of paper
with these ideas in her estate, in the collection
of her papers, but we have not yet found a completely
written out score. So this is effectively a jazz
improvisation that is, we have this transcription.
And so there's a recording of this performance.
And so what do you do with that? And I was so
cognizant of the fact that it was a very specific
kind of thing that I was going to be doing. And
then I was going, and I had heard it, and then
I said I was never going to listen to that recording
again. Because what I didn't want to do was copy
what she did. Because even though that is absolutely
how she wants it to be played, I also felt like...
If I was going to respect her as a composer,
I actually should do the work of interpreting
her compositional intent. Because she's actually
a brilliant composer, and I have her actual written
compositions to attest to that. So what I did
was I looked at the score of it and started to
say, okay, what do these melodic figures mean?
How are these harmonies moving? How does she
develop ideas? How does she move? How does she
structure these things? And then I decided what
that meant. And so if you listen to her recording
versus what you heard me do, it's actually very
different. But I think that I rendered her intention.
I believe that I rendered her intention. It's
just that I played it differently, as one should,
because I am not Consuela Lee. I also don't have
her jazz chops at all. And I think that, and
that's one of the things that there's going to
be another edition of the score that comes out
where I actually talk about the unique space
that this particular piece exists in where the
pianist that chooses to play this is going to
have to, you have an added responsibility of,
you can't be lazy. You have to actually interpret.
I mean, you could copy what she does. But I would
hope that we're raising pianists to do more and
better than that. But it was a real joy to engage
on that level. Brilliant, brilliant piano piece
and brilliant performance. Thank you. So let's
talk about Juneteenth LP. I've attended so many
events, the Juneteenth LP events. Wow, incredible.
The last one was last June. It was the 10th anniversary
at Joe's Pub. I mean, I don't usually go to the
concert raising my hands, that kind of guy, but
I was doing it all by myself. It was so good.
So tell us about Juneteenth LP, what you do,
what's your mission? Our mission is to change
how people experience classical music. We want
to make... classical music more accessible to
as many people as possible. And because I'm a
black person, I want black people to show up
in concert spaces. But that doesn't mean I only
want black people to show up in concert spaces.
But I'm keenly aware of the fact that I spent
my whole life being the only black person in
a classical music hall and the only black people
in the audience were my relatives. Unless there
was one other black person performing, and then
it would be also their well -being. But what
I think is interesting is that classical music,
for me, was something that I grew up with because
my mother grew up with it, and my parents met
at Howard University, and that was all very exciting.
But my father was a very interesting Nigerian
immigrant. He took a musicology course, an introduction
to... Musicology. And he fell in love with, of
all things, Renaissance counterpoint, Bach, and
Beethoven. Those three things. Like he landed
on that and he landed hard. So I grew up listening
to Lasus and Palestrina and Bach and Beethoven.
I knew all the symphonies by the time I was five
or six. And I knew, I didn't know how much Lassus
and Paulistrina I actually knew until I was taking
a two and three part counterpoint class. And
I was like, why do I know this? And my mom was
like, oh, you didn't know that your dad actually
played motets all the time? And I was like, no,
I don't know that, but okay. And so, I got a
little distracted, I'm sorry. My point being
that, so I grew up with those sounds, but what
I find is that when you grew up listening to
classical music radio stations, you know, they're
very much like, you know, this is the most wonderful
music in the world, and, you know, great music,
everybody loves great music. And I'm like, yeah,
no, not all classical music is actually music
that everybody loves. Some music is really clearly
visceral. And everyone does respond to it. Like,
it doesn't matter who you play the Rite of Spring
for. Everyone goes, what is that? You know, like,
because everybody responds to the sort of, like,
tribal, earthy, we're going to sacrifice some
blood today. You know, it doesn't matter where
you come from. It's very clear someone's going
to get killed because spring is coming, right?
There will be blood, right? You know, I'm sorry,
you can play a Clemente Sonatina and that's just
not going to reach everybody on the planet. Like
whatever Clemente is trying to offer you, it's
not going to reach everybody. But if you grew
up with Clemente and you love it, then of course
that speaks to you. And so I wanted to sort of
create this environment where I explain to people
that no matter what it is you love. We're going
to find a way to bring you to this music. And
you're going to understand that there are all
these avenues by which you can appreciate it.
So if you grow up, if you're a grandma that grew
up loving Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye and Gladys
Knight and the Pips, we'll play some of that.
And you're going to understand that. You're going
to understand that. that the other composers
that we play that are writing classical music,
these black composers, they also grew up loving
that music, or their parents grew up loving that
music, and that they actually like... They write
and they actually write that stuff into their
music. Not literally, but they're feeling that
and they're writing like blues inflected music
and soul inflected music. And it's not obvious
necessarily, but sometimes they'll slip in like
a little refrain from a spiritual or a little
refrain from a, you know, whatever. And sometimes
I'll be rehearsing with my friends and I'll be
like, does this baseline remind you of, you know?
of this Delphonics tune, and we'll be like, oh
my gosh, it does! And we don't know if that's
really what's happening, but we're kind of listening
with this. All of the people that we love, these
black composers that we love playing, we realize
that they actually grew up listening to the music
that we grew up listening to. So when we program,
we're actually, we're sort of making it an educational
experience, and we're saying, these people love
the music that you love. And they're actually
relatable in all of these ways. And we program
it so that they get to experience the music that
they love, and they get to hear a little bit
of Lizzo, and they get to hear a little bit of,
you know, Chateaubriand, and they get to hear
a little bit of Duke Ellington. And on a multi
-generational level, they get to have this concert
experience that's sort of wonderful and kind
of wild and crazy. Like, I remember, I mean...
I remember one year playing Lil Nas X. And it
was kind of wild because people were like, what
are you doing? And we were like, you like that,
don't you? Because back then it was pretty fresh.
Yeah, but the great thing about it is that all
the musicians are classical musicians. And they're
playing all these wild, wild music. Oh, so great.
The Afropop. Thank you. If you want to learn
more about Juneteenth LP, please go to juneteenthlp
.org. And every June, she has this amazing event.
So please attend her crazy, amazing events in
June. And then, yeah, a couple years ago, I remember
particularly at the Metropolitan Museum of Art,
you performed. It was so great. Anyway, I know
we have more time. I wish we had more time. You're
right. It goes 90 minutes. I was wrong. So anyway,
if you have any questions to an artist, I can
give you the microphone. Do you have any questions
to anyone? Yes. Excuse me. Thank you so much.
I really recently read a text that was talking
about what makes language memorable. And there
was an emphasis on credibility. And there was
an emphasis on surprisingness, right? Something
unexpected. And what you said about... Our reference
with music really captured me, and I would love
it if you would just kind of reflect on how we
can make music more credible to people. As a
teacher or as a performer? Hearing in what you're
saying that you're developing a different level
of reference for music for people as part of
their experience that can really last over time.
And I would just love to hear a little bit more
about how you're creating that experience. Well,
I know that for me, I feel like programming needs
to hit on a lot of different levels. And it depends
on what you have available to you. So, for example,
our Juneteenth Festival, we do a lot of different
kinds of performances. Like we will do a completely
classical performance at the Dementa Center.
But we're also starting this creative intersections
concert series where we will perform. For a brief
bit of time, like 20 minutes. But we're going
to invite, we're inviting a writing workshop
facilitator to come. And it's actually her idea.
I'm not, I didn't think this up. It's her idea
to use our performance as a writing prompt. And
so the guests, our concert goers are going to
have the opportunity to use our performance as
a prompt for their creative writing exercise.
And then we'll play for five minutes, they'll
write, and then we'll play for five minutes,
and then they'll write. And then what they'll
have an opportunity to do is take the microphone
and read their writing. And so what we'll get
is this really great interaction where, I don't
know if any of you guys have read John Burr's,
is it Burr? Ways of Seeing. Well, he posits that
we don't have control of things after we send
it out into the world as artists, right? And
so you can intend something to be received in
a way, but there's no guarantee that that's what
happens. And so now what we get is this opportunity
for artists to respond creatively to what we
just did. And so we're going to have that, and
then we're also going to have them a different
concert where they get to be. respond um artistically
like they get to draw or paint and then what
we're going to do is we're going to play some
of those pieces at the dometic concert and then
we're going to display their art and their writing
at joe's pub in the vestibule so we're going
to create this like creative community that grew
out of responding to our performances and then
we're all going to be in community at the final
show which is new for us right but we feel like
in that way we get to like lessen the distance
between performer and audience, which I think
is also important because there's a lot of like,
oh, the artist, and then we're out here and we
pay for a ticket. I think that's one of the ways
that we can do that. But I also feel like every
season we're trying something different. I don't
know if that answers the question. Thank you.
Sure. Anyone else? This is for Eleanor. So you
were saying that when you were transcribing the
cello concertos, you understood something about
Bach. I want to know what that was. Thank you.
I would have talked about it, but we're short
on time. I was actually describing the cello
suites by Bach, and they are essentially very
bare bones. It's just, as you can imagine, the
cellist usually plays one note at a time, and
then there will be some double, triple stops
as chords. There are six suites, so there's a
total of 36 movements, and it fills up a whole
CD. So also because I was recording them, not
only transcribing, I really needed to, as you
were saying, to internalize them. I needed to
understand what they are and how I can transmit
them on the piano. So Bach's music essentially
is best defined by structure. What we respond
to with some Some people don't really respond
to Bach because it really takes a certain region
of the brain which really understands structure
and symmetry and non -verbally. So the complexity
of Bach is usually overwhelming when we hear
it, when there are many voices. But when you
look at one voice, you can see how he structures
one voice. and you see the smaller building blocks
of each voice, and you see how it already contains
the hidden counterpoint and the complexity. So
for a pianist, as we're used to seeing a lot
of notes, when we're looking at Bach, we're trying
to manage everything, but as a pianist looking
at his cello works and really just zooming into
one line, it's really amazing. how much he does
that way and then when you blow it up and play
music that has more layers happening it just
gives you a completely different understanding
and also a different level of attention that
you bring when you play because we look at music
And very often we don't really pay attention
to what's going on because we're often thinking
about what we're going to have for lunch or who's
pinging us on our cell phone. But when you understand
what every little nook and cranny in his lines
really contains, then when you play more, it's
really like more of your brain lights up, I guess,
as they say in videos. Did you look at the chaconne
when you were... Yes. The violin. People tell
me I should do the violin works, but I don't
like the higher register. I don't think people
could go through a CD's worth of higher registers.
I love the cello suites and that particular timbre.
Just one suggestion for your audience. I'm one
of them. I would love to hear more about this.
Hear what? This explanation? I have recordings
of all of my sets and on my website I wrote extensive
booklet notes to every CD. So I actually... The
cello suite's booklet notes were the hardest
thing I feel I've ever done as far as writing
because I felt I had to justify... playing them
on the piano. I actually had a rash for like
three weeks, literally, because I didn't know
why I had it, but it was because I felt so daunted
to explain what this is. So it is there, but
thank you for asking. Did you mean like a podcast?
Did you mean like a podcast? This question is
for Dr. Kerska, but potentially for all three
of you. So I grew up playing classical music,
not piano, but violin. And one thing that I found
is that most of the people that I played with,
even those at a pretty high level, there came
a day when they turned 18 or maybe 21 and they
kind of stopped playing. And so I wonder for
you and maybe all three of you, how do we get
people to continue to play? if they don't pursue
it professionally? That's a good question. I
think music has to mean something to you. I do
think the way classical music has gone, it's
become very technical, and I find it unusual
to find a person who will actually have a story
going on in their head that is meaningful to
them when they're playing a piece. I think, and
it does, I mean, at least for me and my daughter
also, who's right here, it comes a point when
it has to mean something to you. When it means
something to you, then you won't stop. But if
it's just about competitions and, you know, that's,
you're going to get tired and you're going to
be so relieved when you don't have to do it anymore.
May I say something? When I first get a child
and we're at a grand piano, the very first lesson
is I put them on a little step stool and I open
up the piano and we compose a piece using the
inside of the piano. And we bounce balls and
we, you know, the pedal and paper and we, you
know, thunder and lightning and this, or we make
a spooky Halloween story or whatever. And the
first thing they learn is that you... You can
make a story with this instrument in all kinds
of wild and crazy ways. And their eyes get really
big. And all I say after that is every piece
that you play is a composer trying to tell a
story. And your job is to help them tell the
story, like make the story come to life. That's
what your job is. Loud sounds and soft sounds,
that's what your job is. And all of a sudden
they have all of this reverence for the act of
music making. And our job as piano teachers is
to make that feel special and alive and exciting
every single week. And to work with whoever else
they're working with, their choral teacher and
their composition teacher and their theory teacher.
And we should be like making them like improvise
from then. And I can't tell you how hard it is
to get that to happen in these institutions.
It's very, very frustrating. But I think that's
how you do it. Like, we should be, kids should
be improvising from the very beginning. From
the very beginning. Because you can't, why are
we having them, like, learning how to improvise
to blues, a 12 -bar blues, like, when they discover
the blues? They should learn it, like, at six.
It should be fun from the beginning. Why can't
you rock out now? You know, why does it have
to be later when your parents tell you about
the Beatles? Come on. It's all fun. All of it.
Sorry. I think related to, you know, what Nana
was saying and also what you said earlier about
making music in community. Yeah. I think when
we discover that music actually connects us to
other people in more interesting ways than we
would possibly be doing without music I mean
that's inspiring too and I could just briefly
add something I wanted to there was a different
question but we didn't get time but it's also
playing together in the community I remember
when I was five and I couldn't play yet and everything
was just like black and white what do I do I
learned some little piece and my piano teacher
just got up and she just started playing three
hands with me right because I was playing with
one hand and that moment of like Everything changed
for me because I had no idea what I was doing,
and I was like five. And then all of a sudden,
there was music happening because she came and
we played together. And that's my gripe with
piano teachers is I know it's hard to schedule,
but you need to have the kids play together,
even if it's something different. And piano duets
are very special because you're sitting with
somebody right there, and it's just so much more
joyful than... being the solitary, you know,
morose pianist who needs to practice for hours
and hours. It's a different world now. You know,
pedagogy needs to just open up to, you know,
a new dimension. Thank you. Now we're coming
to an end of this event. Thank you so much for
really being an active participant today. Wow,
I'm so impressed with this crowd, and thank you
so much for coming. I hope you enjoyed the recording
from the PianoPod Live in Concert, a bold new
chapter in classical music. So what did you think
of blending what the PianoPod does bi -weekly,
music performance, in -depth interviews, and
adding a live audience with a Q &A panel discussion?
It was such a joy to see everything come together
in one afternoon. I truly hope to do this again
next fall. And I am already in touch with several
educational institutions, both within New York
City and beyond, to make it happen. If you would
like to support future live events like this,
please consider making a financial contribution
by tapping the PayPal link in the show notes.
Every bit helps us continue bringing music and
conversation to more people. Many thanks to Manus
Prep and The New School, especially Caroline
Sonnet -Asser and Mary Catherine Blazek for their
incredible support. Heartfelt thanks also to
the entire Manus team for assisting us behind
the scenes. And to Scott Chu and Brian from Portable
Recording Studio for their expert audio and video
work. And to Jenny Bai, my heroine of the day,
for page turns and stage transitions. Special
thanks to our photographer, Vincent, for capturing
every beautiful moment of the event. And of course,
to our extraordinary guest artists, Dr. Jihoon
Kurska, Eleanor Byneman, Dr. Nana Oguo, and Donna
Wang Friedman, whose performances, insights,
and presence made this concert unforgettable.
To explore more, Simply scan the QR code on your
screen, which will take you to the live event
tab at thepianopod .com, where you will find
each guest's story and bio. Season 6 of The Pianopod
is just getting started under the theme Creativity
and Connection, featuring more extraordinary
guests and conversations ahead. Thank you for
listening, and until next time, keep creating,
keep connecting, and keep the music alive.