Music is the universal language. Well, if it's
a universal language, we have a syntax problem
because most of the people just don't understand
what we do. I would say our mission as a duo
is to bridge worlds and to make the world we
connect to more beautiful. We come from very
different cultures. And the fact that we come
together as a four -hand piano duo sharing one
piano, and we have to make things work, and making
music to share with people, I think sends out
the message that music truly connects people,
regardless of their background or cultures. I
think the piano in particular is one of those
unique instruments that has truly... been able
to bridge so many cultural barriers. This remarkable
machine, 300 years of development, pieces of
physics and art and engineering has come to be
so beloved by so many different cultures and
peoples around the world and that it's truly
a piece of art that helps us to find a common
voice. Hello, friends, and welcome back to Season
6 of The Piano Pod, our season of creativity
and connection. I am so excited for today's episode
because our guests really bring those two ideas
to life. You may know them as Mada and Hugh Piano
Duo, Romanian -born pianist Madalina Danila and
Korean -American pianist Hugh Sung. But let me
tell you, they are so much more than a four -hand
ensemble. Their performances are electrifying,
their arrangements imaginative, and their videos
pull you right into a world where tradition and
innovation meet. What makes this conversation
especially meaningful is their story. These are
two artists from very different backgrounds who
dared to take risks, reinvent themselves, and
build something entirely new together. From Madalina's
deep dive into George Crumb and her Romanian
roots, to Hugh's pioneering work in music technology
like co -creating Airturn and entrepreneurship,
they have created not just a duo, but a shared
artistic vision built on resilience, creativity,
and love, with their dog Zeus often by their
side. In our conversation, you will hear about
their artistry, their bold arrangements, the
unique challenges and joys of four -hand piano
playing, their entrepreneurial spirit, and what
it really means to bridge cultures through music.
Before we begin, I want to pause and thank you
for being here. Every time you hit the thumbs
up, leave a rating, subscribe on your favorite
podcast platform, or share an episode with a
friend, It helps this work continue. It truly
means the world to me, and I am so grateful for
your support. And I also want to remind you about
something special. The Pianopod Live in Concert
at the Stiefel Hall, presented in partnership
with Mattis Prep at The New School, a pre -college
music program offering comprehensive and nurturing
pre -professional training. Please join us on
October 4th. for an unforgettable evening of
music, conversation, and community. So with that,
here is Season 6, Episode 2 of The Piano Pod
with the award -winning Mada and Hugh Piano Duo.
Please enjoy the show. You are listening to The
Piano Pod, where we talk to the brightest minds
in the industry about how they are bringing the
piano into the future and thriving in a complex,
ever -evolving world. Maralina and Hugh, welcome
to The Piano Pod. Thank you for being here today,
and you are a truly captivating duo, and I'm
so excited that you're here, not only for your
artistry, but for the way you've... build your
brand and life together and performances that
bridge cultures and generations and the repertoire
spanning classical masterpieces to your own well
crafted arrangements of, you know, pop tunes
and so on. And your videos and podcast, you know,
we are fellow podcasters here and are super educational
that really invite audiences with clarity. warmth
and joy. I'm so looking forward to exploring
your individual projects as well today and then
entrepreneurship also. So as we begin, I'd like
to start with this question. If you were to describe
your mission or passion in a few words or in
a sentence or two, how would you describe it?
So for me is making music, living an artistic
life and sharing my talents and my gifts. and
what I believe in with people and making this
place better as much as I can. Beautiful. Yeah,
I think it's a wonderful statement. For me, I
come from a place where I'm very conscious of
the fact that what we do as pianists, as musicians,
is very, how should we say, very disconnected
with the modern world in some ways. And I remember
very much as a child growing up, not understanding
the musical language at all and um struggling
with you know being forced into this world of
playing and and playing all these wonderful masterpieces
but having no idea what anything meant so for
me my passion my personal passion has been to
connect with audiences and really Help them to
feel welcome, to learn about what we do, to share
how beautiful music can be, and to understand
that there can be a lot to absorb and to try
to make what we do as presentable in a way so
that our art is as welcoming as possible to as
many people as possible, not just art for its
own sake. Well said. Thank you. And would you
like to say as the mission as to? as a duo i
would say our mission as a duo is to bridge worlds
and to make the world we connect to more beautiful
yeah first of all we we come from very different
cultures extremely different cultures and backgrounds
they cannot emphasize different enough and the
fact that we come together as a four -hand piano
duo sharing one piano so it's not even you know
two instruments so two pianos but one piano and
we have to make things work we have to collaborate
at all possible levels and making music to share
with people i think sends out the message that
music truly connects people regardless of their
background or cultures or ways of thinking or
political ideas you know etc and Yeah, I think
our goal becomes their goal. So it becomes a
unified. I think the piano in particular is one
of those unique instruments that has truly been
able to bridge so many cultural barriers. This
remarkable machine, 300 years of development
from Cristofori's first pianofortes to what we
have today. it's just amazing to see how this
this complex one of the most complex pieces of
physics and art and engineering has come to be
so beloved by so many different cultures and
peoples around the world and that it's it's truly
a machine from intents and purposes a piece of
art that helps us to find a common voice so i
would say if we were to make it a marketing speak
maybe four hands one piano One world in one piano
or something like that. Four hands, two hearts,
and one world. Yeah, exactly. That's beautiful.
That's beautiful. Now, the hardest question of
the day is over. So well done. Yes. We really
need to spend some time. That's a great, great
mission statement question that I think we still
need to work through. But thank you for getting
us to at least think about it. That's a great
question to think about. Exactly. No, thank you.
But, you know, it's nice to have intentions to
anything we do. And actually, you both are actually
doing it. So that's why I thought this question
to start out with would be really appropriate
today. But I can't help but notice this little
baby here. Can you introduce us? For those who
are listening, we have this little puppy on the
screen that Madalina is holding. So can you introduce
us? So this is Zeus. He is a 10 -month -old cotton
detulier. I know that for many people, this breed
can be pretty unknown. And it was unknown to
us before we found out about it. Well, yeah,
I think he is the glue between us. So I would...
One of the many glues. One of the many glues,
yes. And I would say that he's also a very important
part backstage in terms of our duo and in terms
of our communication skills. And I would... I'd
like to add that, you know, as an individual,
that one of my life's goals is to have as many
puppies as possible. I love puppies. Enjoy life.
He was like, no, no, no. But we do have Zeus
on stage with us as often as possible. You know,
it's interesting, as young as he is. And this
particular breed is very friendly and very sweet.
Just got the most wonderful disposition. And
folks are just amazed that he will sit on stage
with us just quietly. He enjoys the music. We
take bows together with him, travels on the plane
with us. He's been a wonderful travel companion,
stage companion. He loves it and he loves people,
you know, and just the most remarkable. remarkable
dog that we've I've ever met yeah so to have
him in our life and he has a such a I don't know
such a good look you know he may say so I think
so too he's just got this he doesn't look real
he's like yeah he doesn't look he looks like
a doll yeah he's on batteries or something yeah
that's true well welcome Zeus so now I want to
continue our conversation from you choose as
a duo together. So, you know, forehand duo playing
is such a fascinating genre, you know, rooted
in tradition. However, it's so innovative and
creative at the same time, right? In your case,
I've been taking the artistry really further,
adding visual elements and choreography with
cross the hands, you know, and then even percussion
effects like catatorians, saber dance. Oh, so
tell us about this four -hand duet thing, the
artistry of four -hand duet. Why you were so
attracted to do it? Well, you know, obviously
it's more practical than two pianos. Two pianos,
of course. Yeah, tell us. Well, I mean, I think
there will be opportunities for us to, and we're
actually looking into doing a two -piano program
later on. Again, whenever the opportunity is
there, we can certainly fill that in. But pragmatically,
for most of the concerts that we are booking,
one piano is just easier. to get concerts for,
just pragmatically speaking. I think he wants
you. Oh, okay. It's my turn. So certainly Anderson
and Rowe have been very influential in terms
of their physicality. And I think I just admire
so much how they brought a lot of innovative
ways to blend forehand technique. on just another
level that I had never seen before. And it's
interesting, we're in the process of doing a
retrospective on the history of forehand piano
playing music, you know, and it seems to have,
there were some earlier works, but Mozart and
his sister Nannerl were really the first to,
you know, they wrote for themselves. They were
the first to be the sensationalized duo as children.
For so much of that time, there were zones, polite
zones. The male secondo, the lower voice on the
left hand, would be in his zone, and the female
primo would be on the upper part of the piano.
They would stay in their places for the most
part, and then not until we get into more of
the romantic era that we start to see. Noddy
hand crossings. So, you know, just to summarize
what Hugh described, basically the development
of the four -hand piano duo had to do a lot with
the social environment and cultural environment
and the changes that... a lot of big changes
that came after the classicism, right, when Mozart
was at its peak. And then, like you said, when
he was a child, he would play a lot of four -hand
duos with his sister, who apparently, and I read
something about it just the other day, was just
as talented as he was. Mozart in many of his
letters to his father praised her a lot for her
abilities as a pianist, as a composer. Yeah,
unfortunately, their duo didn't continue. But
it also had to do with, I think, the physical
development of the piano. Back in Bach's time,
the piano was simply not wide enough. It wouldn't
be practical for two people. Not to mention that
women had all those garments, which is impossible
to sit closely. So there were physical barriers
to having... forehand duets i mean certainly
there were multi -keyboard ensembles of two pianos
there's the three three even four four harpsichords
right yeah but you know in box time but in terms
of two people playing on one instrument it was
really due to just the physical limitations of
having you know 60 some keys as opposed to the
88 we have now you know and as the piano developed
then the forehand developed really as a great
marketing tool for Brahms, who recognized the
power of it, to have people in their homes to
preview his symphonies or to preview larger works.
Even Liszt, you know, arranged for four hands.
Also, you know, Beethoven's symphonies made a
lot of arrangements. And then, you know, Grieg.
as a great way of getting the word out of such
and such an opera, such and such a symphony.
People could try it out at home and then they
could experience the orchestra version. So the
forehand. repertoire uh was a great marketing
technique and of course then list people like
yeah and also you know if you think about it
four hands playing so two people four hands um
all of a sudden becomes more achievable right
to to transcribe to arrange uh an opera or a
symphony for keyboard rather than two hands right
it's just right it's uh logistics here right
so everything you can fit everything um more
easily into four hands rather than in two So,
yeah, people started to prefer that. Maybe you
already have answered, but what is it about four
-hand piano versus two pianos or solo that makes
it so powerful and special to you? Well, I mean,
I think for each category, there's special requirements.
There are limits, of course. So, you know, pros
and cons. I think when it comes to four hands.
to one instrument, I think four hands can easily
bring out the potential of the instrument. So
it becomes much more powerful than in the situation
of just one person playing. And then for two
pianos, a Rachmaninoff. started to fancy the
two piano formula, right? And also, you know,
you have to think about that concert venues started
to become bigger and bigger. So all of a sudden,
like two pianos made more sense, right, to have
on stage. And sonically, it was a completely
different level than just having one piano, so
four hands. I think for me personally, even though
I was trained as a soloist at Curtis, I always
had more fun playing with friends. All my friends
would say, hey, can you help me with this lesson,
that? I loved it. I was more comfortable being
with other musicians. Maybe it was an insecurity,
who knows, but I never felt comfortable just
promoting myself. So I always felt like I would
rather be part of a team. And I've always enjoyed
that aspect of teamwork where if I could be around
people that would inspire me, people that were
different from me, that could challenge me, I
felt like I could become a better person rather
than living a soloist's life, which can be very,
very lonely and very. very challenging. Be careful
what you wish for in terms of, you know, people
to challenge you. But that's, I think for me,
it has been just the, the, what the ability to
bounce ideas off of her, of somebody else. And
to, I love that extra added creativity of somebody
else. working together so for me it's just that
that unique variety of teamwork and um and it's
just the forehand rep press so interesting yeah
so i think uh the core of it it's the idea of
chamber music right collaborating with people
forming uh micro this micro society right micro
family right either two or three it only comes
to trios or quartets um And as opposed to solo,
right? This is very different. That's why I said
before that there are different rules for each
category. Of course, what I've learned from playing
chamber music is very, very much transferable
to solo playing. It helps a lot, at least, you
know, I'm speaking from personal experience.
It helps a lot in terms like how I hear music,
how I approach music, how can I make my two hands
sound not like two hands, but more, not like.
this percussion instrument but like completely
like a um a human voice or an elbow or a clarinet
um so you know maybe one hand is playing a noble
line yeah or and and the the other one is playing
um a bass, for example, like if you think of
different textures and the way to orchestrate,
right? Learning from a string quartet is very
helpful for pianists, for example. So that's
why I'm saying like chamber music can be so,
so influential on solo playing and indeed is
more fun to play with people as difficult and
challenging it can be as it can be sometimes,
right? On stage, it is that... back and forth
game. It's like a tennis game, right? It doesn't
make sense to play tennis by yourself. You can
play, actually. I learned tennis with the wall,
just bouncing the ball against the wall. But
then, you know, it's no fun. It's very limited.
But I see this successful duo as siblings. you
know, twins. Yeah. Yeah. And a married couple.
Yeah. So it's, it's really fascinating, but that's
how much also it takes time to put, put the craft,
you know, craft that our artistry. Right. And
it just doesn't happen very, very quickly. to
coordinate no it doesn't and the fact that you
know you mentioned siblings playing together
or a married couple um i think is similar because
you you live with the person you live with that
person that you you also share a professional
life with and you i think you learn about their
idiosyncrasies and you learn about their way
of thinking, the way they approach life. And
even if you don't consciously think about all
these things, I think it's just they get somewhere,
right? They accumulate somewhere. And I think
it's easier in a way when we are, for example,
in front of the instrument and start practicing,
we know each other or we should know each other.
And I think we can solve problems a little bit
more efficiently, or at least we're trying to,
right? After some time, if you really want to
make things work, you have to find an efficient
way to save time and energy and sometimes even
the relationship, the partnership. One of the
things you were alluding to at the beginning
of the podcast was how challenging it is to play
four hands on one piano and just, again, You're
absolutely right. I do a lot of work in my, I
still do a lot of work with collaborative piano,
which is what I've done for most of my professional
career. You know, 19 years director of instrumental
accompaniment, Curtis. So I played with every
instrument and helped a lot of the folks in the
Philadelphia Orchestra get their jobs with the
auditions. But somehow working in this capacity
is the most difficult. that I've ever experienced.
And I think a lot of it has to do with just the
nature of two people on one instrument. Yeah,
two different entities. When you have two different
pianos, and I've accompanied other pianists.
For some reason, that doesn't seem as difficult,
but one piano, wow. I mean, just the precision
of making sure we land together, that we start
together. it's much more amplified when you're
both sharing one instrument so this is exactly
the the reaction that our dear uh professor orcas
had i i remember when i when i told him oh you
know you know we're trying to develop this forehand
oh i i don't want to hear about it like this
i find this the most difficult thing and he's
he's been a collaborative pianist almost his
whole life. I mean, he's known for this, a chamber
musician, a phenomenal chamber musician. But
when he heard about this combination, he's like,
oh no, I've only done it like a few times and
that's it. Because it requires a lot of energy
and time. And it is difficult. Like I said, two
different entities in front of the same instrument
to make it sound as one, right? To combine ideas.
and music making and make it sound like one,
it is, I think, the most difficult partnership
and ensembleship, I think, when it comes to chamber
music. Well, but when I see you perform and on
the video, it just looks so easy. We're talking
about what's going on backstage. I'm sorry. We're
talking about backstage stuff that people don't
know about. My final product is just so beautiful
and so fun. Now tell me about your arrangements.
Wow. Moonlight with Schubert's Serenade. Moon
River. Oh, my gosh. Those combinations just blew
my mind. Oh, thank you. Yeah. And then the iconic
rock song Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen. We didn't
do that one. We adjusted the arrangement a little
bit. The others we did. John Williams, for example.
We are particularly proud of that one. The very
famous rock song, Guns N' Roses, Sweet Child
of Mine. That's yours. I think that one was the
first one where we... tried out some crazy choreography.
That was the most... And actually, it started
as an experiment. We did it in three days. We
just threw something together really fast. Nothing
to lose. And Billy Joel's lullaby is your arrangement
as well. My favorite is, of course, Sweet Adin...
Dobrze. Yeah, and that's an incredible arrangement.
I really enjoyed it. So this is the compilation
of folk tunes from Romania, right? Certain regions
of Romania. And I know you, in the video, you
also explain the region and also how complex
Romanian culture is actually. can you tell us
about the arrangements but also the historical
background and how also you guys arranged this
together well in terms of um um historical background
you described it very well i mean it was um it
was a region quite um conquered well this is
a region specifically in the south southeastern
part of romania romania is in the shape of a
fish Right now. Right now, the Sabah fish. And
what's interesting about that particular region
is that this is actually where a lot of Madalina's
family comes from, the southeastern part. And
it's a close proximity to Turkey. And there are
eastern and western influences that are commingled
in that region, which lends to the spiciness.
of this suite yeah predominantly eastern influences
predominantly turkish because that region was
for three centuries even more um under turkish
occupation so a lot of the architecture music
cuisine just came right there of course and before
um way way back before uh he was under um roman
empire right there still we remember like two
years ago We visited some ruins that are still
there from the Roman Empire time. Still there.
It's really fascinating. I mean, learning history
as a child just didn't strike me as fascinating
as it does right now, finding out all these details
that constitute my country. So, you know, of
course, meeting Madalina and, you know, I'm from
South Korean heritage. I was born in the States,
but my family came from South Korea and I had
never had never dated a Romanian before. I mean,
instantly there was this instant mystique, everything
from her accent to. And I, you know, want to
know more about this. beautiful, mysterious woman
and where she came from. What is this place called
Romania? The only thing I had reference to was
that. You had to look it up on the map, huh?
Well, not just look it up on the map. All I knew
was, you know, for her teacher would say, ah,
Ceaușescu, Dracula. It is, you know, the home
of Transylvania. I mean, all these are true,
of course. Of course they're true. It's just
stereotypes. Of course they're stereotypes. But,
you know, I love the fact that, you know, they
love it. They just laugh it off. Sorry, I have
to interrupt. and you saw this the other day
i was re -watching some episodes of seinfeld
of seinfeld show and there is one episode where
jerry dates a romanian gymnast this is a an allusion
to nadia who won the perfect 10 right history
of gymnastic and then he mentions the name of
of uh what what am i going to talk to her about
i love the accent by the way so I think the most
interesting thing as getting to know her, I was
interested also in her culture. And so we spent
a lot of time. One of the things that I remember
when I was first being exposed to South Korean.
culture that i instantly wanted to understand
the folk music so i got a lot of cds at the time
of the traditional instruments things like the
kayagum which is this equivalent to the koto
the japanese koto string zither instrument or
the tegum which is the the flute that has the
the membrane skin membrane gives it a soul those
instruments really struck my heart and so i wanted
to do the same kind of deep dive for romanian
music so i just spent all in search online apple
music is fantastic by the way just to look up
as many authentic ethnic romanian albums as i
could find and it just became this beautiful
journey of of the folk music of the different
dance styles and hearing different regions and
how they all differed and then suddenly i found
two recordings of the same suite One was recorded,
I think, in the 1970s or so. He's getting tangled.
First recordings in the 1970s, and I think the
more recent one was done either the 90s or early
2000s. And what was interesting was that it was
thematically the same dances, but in a different
order and improvised slightly different. I recognized
the piece like, well, that's a completely different
way of playing such and such a piece. And I shared
this with Madalena. She got excited. And then
we started, I think the first step was just the
base transcription, just listening. And since
there were two different sources, just trying
to decide which one we liked of each of them,
because there was no printed sheet music of this.
So it was really just simply laying down the
raw transcription. And then from that raw transcription.
We would, so the way I like to work is I'd like
to work in a kind of a three staff system. I
do the raw transcription in the middle, and then
I add a staff above, a staff below for her part,
my part, or whoever's going to do it. And then
deciding which elements are more predominantly
going to go to the primo, which elements are
going to go predominantly to the secondo, and
then finding fun ways to mix them, you know,
to say, okay, well. This is boring. Let's, and
then she would come in and say, well, let's,
I want to improvise this. This sounds boring.
Let's do that. So it was a very, maybe I would
lay the framework and then she would come and
lay all the Romanian sauce on top of it. You
know, when I do my arrangement and I've done
some solo arrangements, I just, I don't know.
My way of working is very different. First of
all, I have to be at the piano because I want
to try out things and I don't work like beginning
till end. based on whatever reason, I just, maybe
I start in the middle or I start with the ending
and I just sketch. First of all, I sketch something
that sounds at the moment the most important.
And then basically I fill out the rest. So we
have different techniques of arranging things.
Yeah, but it went through several, I mean, once
the framework was out, it really took a lot of...
playthroughs, experimentations. And then she
has a very improvised, and that's the nature
of Romanian music. It's very improvisatory. So
getting her feedback in terms of, we really should
do this or that. And, you know, maybe she changed
her mind, but we would annotate as much of that
as possible too. It's just a fun, fun process.
Yeah. I mean, you know, speaking of improvisation,
there are two types of people, right? Some write
their improvisations down before. Every concert,
even if they do something different each concert,
they write it down. And now there's just, well,
I'll see what I feel inspired to do on the spot.
So, yeah, I mean, I like to come up with different
things each time that we play this piece. And
we've been playing this a lot. And I think it
has been featured in every single concert that
we've had. And last year we played it in Romania
for the first time and we're going to play it
again in September, coming back there. How was
the reception? It was very well received. First
of all, no one seemed to know that particular
suite. So I don't think anyone had ever heard
that because there's no score for it. This is
a very important thing. There's no score for
it. I think any folk music has been preserved.
without any sheet music, right? Just the oral
tradition, yes. And I think what's interesting
too is that the Romanian classical community,
they have a very strong contemporary component,
very strong contemporary composers. But there
seems to be a disconnect. And there's a very
active folk music community. I mean, people,
they play weddings, they play, you know, parties,
community gigs, you know, all the time. There's
not much overlap, which I found very opportunistic,
you know, because, you know, again, one key thing
about being a surviving musician in any age is
finding what makes you unique, right? And I'm
always trying to think of how can we... find
interesting gaps to fill. And I thought, you
know, Romanian folk music in the classical sphere,
I think is a wonderful thing. The music is so
good and not many people know it. So it's just
a wonderful opportunity just to share that with
the rest of the world and connect two different
worlds together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, which
you're doing an amazing job. I really enjoy the
video. Speaking of video, you know, you're venturing.
into the virtual world where you know the podcast
and vlog and you know all the videos that you
make especially the one that i enjoyed watching
was that sort of like a tutorial where you show
us the squeegee thing uh that you used for what
is it the winter morning But I really needed
to see the video. I never knew you were using
the squeegee. I thought you were just using the
hands. And then obviously there was a reason.
I have to say, I mean, it was not our idea. It
was Professor Ork's idea. But it's also, you
know, we do a lot of our shoots. So I'm actually
vice president at Cunningham Piano, which is
one of the oldest. piano stores in America. It's
been around since 1891. And we have the tremendous
privilege of being able to walk into the store
after hours to shoot on Busender for pianos,
Yamaha pianos, I mean, the top -end Yamahas,
you know, rebuilt Steinways and Petrov pianos.
We get our pick of the best pianos, you know,
around in great condition, brand new. But one
key thing is, you know, and I tell this to our
customers, don't touch the strings. Because the
oils in the palm of your hand can cause the strings
to rust, which is why when she wanted to record
this, I said, we can't touch the strings. We've
got to find another way. Hence, the squeegee
idea. Yeah, Professor came up with the idea.
Well, you know, because he had played a lot of
contemporary music, like a lot. And he knows,
I think, every trick that's in the book for certain
situations when you're not allowed. Because in
a lot of venues, presenters might be a little
bit reluctant. When you touch their pianos inside
strings or put different foreign objects between
the strings for certain effects. Yes, it sounds
cool. But at the same time, it might damage the
instrument. So he had this very good idea to
use rubber squeegees. Yeah, it works. But also
you are explaining in such a way that it's so
engaging. It's like, aha, you know, for those
who especially. are not familiar with classical
music or even contemporary you know music and
how does that even sound does the sound coming
from piano but there's an explanation to how
you do it and also you talk about Air turn. So
we're going to talk more about the air turn.
And then I actually have it in my hands. I'm
so proud of you. We're going to talk more in
details. But, you know, you talk about how to
use this air turn for two people. I never knew
that. I thought it was an individual thing. And
you showed us how to do it. you know the video
is really uh inviting and and even for those
who do not know how to play the piano people
really want to see that you know how do these
pianists do do you do all the music production
audio to visuals i i mean i can see you you are
tech savvy one of you right and then so do you
guys do all the production like video audio and
editing yeah starting starting with the outfits
and Hairstylist and makeup and everything. I
take care of the visuals. She insists on putting
makeup on me, which I can't stand. But, you know,
it looks good. And, you know, recently we've
done this. short, this reel on our favorite video
game music, Baldur's Gate 3. And yeah, we had
to really go the extra mile there with costumes
and makeup just to look as realistic as possible
with certain characters. So that's a lot of fun.
Yeah. And for me, it's really kind of everything
else. So yeah. Everything else, yeah. You know,
I've been interested in making videos. Oh gosh.
My YouTube channel is 19 years old and YouTube
just turned 20. So I guess it gives you an idea
how long I've been. experimenting with videos
and that's just for fun again just for fun i
just it's it was a hobby i i loved experimenting
with editing software and over time you start
to pick up this piece of equipment that piece
of equipment and um nothing nothing terribly
expensive but just you know i you start to and
also the fact that i recorded so many albums,
you know, with other musicians. So I have a lot
of experience being in studios, being in production
and seeing the equipment that those people use,
how they use that. And I, we go to the recording
session, I'd be more excited to meet the engineer
than actually record the music, you know? So
I love learning about recording techniques, you
know, how do they edit, you know, how do they
keep track of all the takes and everything like
that. The challenge, though, has always been,
up until recently, I've only been in situations
where we had a very limited window of time to
set up the equipment, record the music, and tear
everything down and get out of there, right?
So you have to think about planning out. And
sometimes the space is very limited because especially
if you were shooting in a piano store, it's crowded.
There's lots of pianos there. It's not like a
stage. So it's very challenging to find the right
angle, set up the lights correctly so you don't
have shadows in the wrong place. But the beautiful
thing about making videos is that every video
you make, you learn something new. And that's
definitely been the case every single time. I
think, you know, maybe next time I'll do it this
way. Maybe I learned a lesson that this didn't
work, you know. So that's been a fascinating
thing. And then microphone wise, I have the great
fortune of, again, working with some other musicians.
I worked with one of the country's best piano
tuners and technicians. And he happened to do
also audio recording on the side just as a hobby.
And he saw my equipment. He said, you know, can
I make some recommendations on some other gear
to get? And he made a recommendation on some
microphones. And I said, I wish you didn't tell
me that because now I'm going to have to buy
them. They're very expensive. And there was only
one set left. They're not in production anymore,
but they happen to be just like the perfect piano
microphones. And I've been using them now for
a couple of years. And I think our production,
it's just been really. fascinating just to dive
into bootstrap ways to make a video to make it
as you know look as nice as possible make it
sound as nice and just having that creativity
in fact tonight after we do our podcast interview
with you we have a video shoot she wants to shoot
two more pieces and so it's nice to be able to
think you know anytime we have a come have a
musical idea oh let's go make a video not only
just musical idea but you know something that
a product that you've been working on and you
want to share it. I'm actually more excited about
the outfits, to be honest. Because again, it's
part of the show, right? It has to be. Do we
get to see the video later sometime? Oh, of course.
It's always a combination of things that we do
together or, you know, I'll shoot her solo thing.
She still does a lot of solo stuff. Yeah. So,
yeah, whatever production, crazy production.
But, you know, I don't know if we want to talk
a little bit later on. We just finished a production
with a young composer, Christian Meckham. And
this was, for me, this was my dream video project,
believe it or not, because, as I mentioned. We
never have enough time. It's always a rush. I'm
limited with the cameras I can use. And for the
first time, we had a young composer approach
Maddalena about a piece that he wrote in memory
of George Rockberg. Krum. George Krum. Excuse
me, George Krum. Very, very, very big distance.
George Krum, who Maddalena actually specializes
in. Her doctoral work has been on George Krum's
Macrocosmos series. book one last year and this
year she'll be doing book two and somehow through
the grapevine this young man was reaching out
to the music community and they all pointed to
her and so he approached her to record this set
of three pieces it's called three omens three
little movements called the rabbit the storm
silence and the face and um so he approached
her with the idea of making a video project he
wanted us to work together because he liked the
videos that we made so he wanted her to be the
pianist they wanted me to be the videographer
and initially he was going to have his his girlfriend
create animation so it's going to be a hybrid
live video and animations mixed together to tell
this visual story of the music It was a lot of
brainstorming at the beginning. I remember we
met for drinks, meals a couple of times, and
we just started throwing out ideas and see what
sticks. And eventually it turned out that just
making the animations was just too time consuming.
It was never going to get done. But the nice
thing was that he gave me a blank slate in terms
of however I wanted to shoot the video. And so
my idea was, okay, let's get the audio done first.
So we recorded the audio, you know, at Cunningham
on a Cunningham piano on a beautiful nine foot
Bissendorfer 280 VC. Imperial. Not an Imperial.
This is a 280 VC. Imperial is a different piano.
But we recorded on that piano. So we got the
audio down and that was the backbone. And then
I was able to use what we call pre -visualization
software. So if you've ever seen. documentaries
on how they make Star Wars or how they make the
latest Marvel movie, you'll see many times that
they'll have these storyboards. It looks like
cartoon strips where they draw in what the scene
should look like and what they're saying at the
moment. I did a similar thing using 3D software
where I could have a virtual model of her, a
virtual model of the piano, a virtual model of
the stage, place them wherever I want, set the
lights virtually where I want the cameras. For
the first time, I'm like, I can use my best camera
and I can have any angle I want, any lighting
that I want and shoot it just the way I want
it to kind of measure for measure. And, you know,
the music became a script and I would lay out
the cuts according to what the music was telling
me. it would be the changes lay out the storyboard
sent the storyboard animated to the composer
you know he approved and then we shot it over
two days which is unheard of you know just to
be able to have two whole days to get it yeah
the visuals out that was great he was also he
was also a big help for getting a stage to allow
us to to unfold like this um we shot that millersville
university there was no one there we basically
had the the stage for us for eight hours for
two days but you know being able to treat um
the recording very much like a movie movie set
it was very much a movie production you know
with the way and i loved it i mean for me and
i'm very grateful for christian to giving us
the opportunity she played of course she played
brilliantly this absolutely brilliant performance
and then of course she came up with different
visual elements and ideas The mask at the last
moment was her idea, which I thought was just
genius. And just, you know, the collaborative
process. And it really felt like we were making
quite literally a movie with just music and a
piano and lights. That's all. I just, yes, that
was a great idea with the mask. But the idea
came from George Crumb's Fox Polini, of course,
that the piece, the very famous piece that premiered
in the 70s for three players that. requires for
all of them to wear masks, to depersonalize them.
So George Brown really inspired the production,
not just the music. It seems like you guys both
share, although... coming from very two different
worlds almost, but then they share so many things.
One of them is the creativity. So, you know,
before we, I want to focus on your individual
work and so on, but I kind of want to know how
did this duo come to life? As in, did the playing
together come first or the life together came
first? I think they went hand in hand. Really,
they went hand in hand. I never felt a separation.
No. I mean, it's kind of obvious when two musicians,
even if they are dating or they're already together,
it doesn't matter if they're two pianists or
different instrumentalists. It seems natural
to start playing together at some point. Unless
they really hate each other. In terms of, you
know, what they do professionally. Well, that
would be really weird. But we are not there.
I think it just started as, well, let's play
together. Let's just play together. We went one
evening to Cunningham and let's just side read
through some stuff. Well, I remember I received
an invitation from a good friend of mine to come
out to play a concert in Paris. And this is very
shortly after. meeting Madalena. I thought, well,
rather than me going out, I was like, hey, hey,
want to go to Paris together? Yeah, but that
was not why it started. No, no, it wasn't, but
it gave us a good reason to give our first concert.
And it was not even the goal of, oh, let's start
a four -hand piano duo. It was not even that.
At least that's how I perceived it. I don't know.
Yeah. Dr. Buechner, Sarah Davis Buechner, have
anything to do with your duo? Yes. Because last
year around this time, I was interviewing her.
Yes, I saw your interview. She's wonderful. She's
the GOAT. She's unique. She's unique. She's unique.
And I, you know, speaking of creativity, I don't
think I've ever met such a creative person like
she is. You know, I've been. Her student, I've
been around her, I think, more than six years.
Yeah, more than six years. And the influence
that she's had on me as a person, as a musician,
it's just, I can talk for hours. Really, I can
talk for hours. And she's really one of the human
beings that actively has been influencing my
life. And, you know, I think yours too. So the
story is Sarah Davis Buechner and I have been
friends for many years, ever since she came to
Philadelphia. We connected. really through her
needing a piano. And then we were Yamaha piano
dealers. We are piano dealers. And connecting
with her initially there. And we just hit it
off. We became very, very close friends. And
during the pandemic, I helped her a lot with
helping her set up streams for her concerts and
a couple other things. So everything, if you
remember that time, we were all streaming from
home. So I set up cameras and microphones and
helped her with a couple of productions. And
then... She was putting together a one -woman
show in New York called... On Pigs and Pianos.
On Pigs and Pianos. Oh, yeah, that's right, that's
right. I thought it was of whatever. On Pigs
and Pianos. And she wanted me to be the videographer,
just to record a version of the show that she
could shop around to presenters. So I came with
all my equipment. And that was really just...
She basically hired me to be there for a week.
to do shooting and, you know, capture everything.
And at the end of that week, this woman came
to one of the after show. I was busy editing
and then finally came out for the last show and
met her. And that's how we met. So, yeah. Hi,
friends of the PianoPod. I want to invite you
to something very special. On Saturday, October
4th at 1 p .m. We are stepping out of the studio
and onto the stage for our very first Pianopod
Live in Concert at Stiefel Hall, presented in
partnership with Manus Prep at The New School,
a pre -college music program offering comprehensive
and nurturing pre -professional training. This
won't be just another concert. It's a one -hour,
one -of -a -kind experience featuring four of
our past guests, pianists, who are reshaping
the classical music world. Dr. Jihoon Kerska,
building opportunities for children through keys
to success. Eleanor Bindman, opening doors to
Johann Sebastian Bach's music with her bold and
innovative transcriptions. Dr. Nana Ogwo, celebrating
Black composers and honoring cultural legacy
through Juneteenth LP. Donna Wang Friedman, award
-winning pianist, producer, and filmmaker, creating
projects that amplify immigrant and underrepresented
voices. Each of these female trailblazers will
perform, then sit down with me for an intimate
conversation before coming together for a panel
that ties it all back to our theme, creativity,
connection, and community. The PianoPod has always
been about bridging the gap between classical
music and today's audiences. This event brings
that mission to life. You won't just hear extraordinary
performances. You will leave inspired by the
stories and the vision behind the music. The
concert is open to public and it marks a huge
milestone for us. Don't miss the chance to be
part of this moment. Please visit thepianopod
.com slash liveevents to reserve your seat and,
if you are able, support this project so we can
continue creating experiences like this together.
Join us for an unforgettable afternoon of music,
storytelling, and connection. So let's focus
on the individual work. So I want to start with
Madalina. You mentioned that the work of George
Crumb's Macrocosmos, and I watched, I think,
yeah, you have a YouTube video out there, right?
Yeah, I watched. Are you still working on your
DMA from Temple University? Yes, yes. Is this
part of your research? Yes, it's supposed to
be. So I'm entering my last year. And it's wonderful
because I discovered the music of George Crumb
through Professor Orkes, who known George Crumb
intimately. He premiered Little Sweet for Christmas.
They were very good friends. And in one of the
modern music classes with Professor Orkes, I...
first heard his music, I was not familiar with
it. And I remember, even now, I remember the
shock that I felt. I was very intrigued because
I felt that that music really spoke to me. And
I think this is a very important key element
when it comes to not just contemporary music,
but any kind of music from any era. If people
feel that a certain music speaks to them, they
should trust that. They should trust that instinct.
And not to mention for players, if they really
feel that, oh, I have this urge, this impulse
to play a certain composer, they should really
follow that. So this happens with George Crumb.
And looking around, I realized that there were
not so many people. I would say no one. that
were interested in in his music and i just decided
to uh give it a shot and started exploring it
and um i i'm grateful and lucky that i have professor
orcas as a mentor you know to show me all the
the um tricks right in in the book because he
had played a lot of george crumb and um had talks
with him and we we have also recently uh reached
out to other friends of george crumb who had
known him as a composer and as a friend uh and
it's like for example uh jennifer higdon she
was one of his studio students at the upenn um
interviewed as professor orchis we tried to reach
out to robert shannon that's still pending um
another favorite pianist of George Crumb. Who
else did we... Marc -Antonio Barone. Marc -Antonio
Barone, yes. We interviewed him as well. Also
another promoter of Crumb's music. Yeah. So,
you know, getting this direct information from
people that had worked with the composer, it's
also very useful in my own understanding of the
music, right? Besides of... my let's say you
know subjective manner you know what what what
do i get from this music i get all that knowledge
right from from the outside that contributes
to um the general um outcome and uh yeah i so
far it's it's it's been a wonderful uh journey
exploring that and it's still not done i'm working
on the second um macrocosmos book and uh i've
learned a lot about contemporary music technique
in terms of what kind of sound effects can be
obtained from the piano. How should I obtain
that without damaging the instruments, since
we were talking about that earlier with the squeegees.
All these elements for extended keyboard techniques.
I think every pianist should know about. I think
it's a very important slice of piano repertoire.
Yeah, so I feel very fortunate to play this music.
And, you know, when I've played it, I also played
it in Romania last year as well. People love
it because they understand it, you know. And
I think it has to do with the fact that I love
it and I understand it. And then, you know, I
share. here's what I think about it. What do
you think? And so far, the feedback has been
positive. It's an incredible conceptual art.
Yeah. And it's very creative. I mean, George
Crumb was a complex human being, complex, although
at first glance, you wouldn't say that. I mean,
if you hear him talking, there are lots, lots
of interviews of him on YouTube. But he had this
diverse, colorful, even dark, I would say, to
a certain extent, universe inside of him, inside
of his head. I remember Jennifer Higdon, when
I interviewed him, she was so baffled because
knowing him, she said, well, he was very quiet.
He wouldn't talk much. He wouldn't talk much.
But then if you hear his music, where are all
those... powerful, violent sounds coming from,
because he's not like that. So there's a big
difference between George Crumb as a person,
George Crumb the person, the human being, very
gentle, very gently spoken, you know, like I
said, the tone of voice, very mellow, and George
Crumb the musician, George Crumb the creator,
I would say. He's a creator in the real sense
of the word. Now, you grew up in Romania, so
your training, earlier training was in Romania.
So did you discover this sort of experimental
avant -garde style of playing when you came to
the United States? No, no, no, no, no. I had
experimented with a lot of contemporary music
before coming to the States in 2019. I had...
If I may say so, I had been at that time for
many years, I had been one of the primary pianists
in Bucharest, just like the capital where I lived
for 10 years. So one of the primary pianists
that actively was actively involved in playing
contemporary music. And I just like to do that,
first of all. Also, from a pragmatic point of
view, it was work that I could get. And also
because I like the idea of working directly with
the composer. How I wish to just pick up the
phone and call Mozart or call Brahms or call...
you know, defy us and supplying that and ask
them, hey, what did you mean by this? What was
in your head when you wrote this down or something
like that? But we can't. So the idea of working
with living composers, it's very appealing. You
know, when I read about Brahms composing his
violin concerto for Joachim, basically Joachim
laid down the violinistic part, right? Right.
It's an incredible bond between composer and
performer. Right. Um, so yeah, I've always wanted
to, to go through that. Um, and it's wonderful
when I come across composers that feel to trust
the performer, they feel to trust me and they
allow me like, like Christian, for example, right.
Um, Christian Meckam with Three Almonds. He,
um, remember he was not so pretentious in terms
of, and picky. no pretensions but picky in terms
of you know how to do certain things um he trusted
me and um yeah it worked out he i think i think
it paid back uh quite nicely and i'm honored
when composers do that when composers trust the
performer you know um yeah and also i think it
also has to go the other way around the performer
has to trust the composer so you've been in the
united states no Too long. It's been like 60
years. Yeah. Yeah. How do you like it here? I
know there's a lot going on right now, but there's
a lot going on. There's a lot going on. I found
a very refreshing. So if I had to summarize the
whole thing in a phrase, I found a very refreshing.
point of view in approaching music through the
people that I have worked with and through the
people that I have encountered and have guided
me. And we mentioned already two of them, Professor
Lambert Orcus, Sarah Davis Buechner. I can mention,
for example, Dr. Joyce Lindorf in period instruments
and harpsichord. I've done a lot, a lot of work
on harpsichord and period instruments. And that
helped. shaped, that actually has shaped a lot
my perspective on, for example, music from classicism,
like music of Mozart or of Beethoven, because
of the exposure to period instruments and to
reading materials and to audio materials and
to other people that are considered specialists,
like, for example, Robert Levin. giant in forte
piano, for example, and I had the privilege to
work with him for a little bit in a masterclass.
It was powerful. I will remember that masterclass
for the rest of my life. And just recently, speaking
of masterclasses, just two weeks ago, I think,
we were in Delaware. We were invited to teach
a masterclass at the music school in Delaware
as part of their summer piano program. And we
only had, I would say, about 20 minutes for each
group, right? So it was a masterclass, right?
But I was hoping, now I can confess, you know,
before it started, I was hoping that at least
for one group, at least for one people, we could
make a difference, you know, because I think
that's what masterclasses do. They should make
a difference. They should be influential. So,
yeah, there's a lot going on. And that's exactly
why I came here. I came here to get a new life.
And that's how short I can summarize it. To get
a new life, to get a new perspective. And, yeah,
I think overall to be more creative, to learn
to be more creative with my life. And by that,
I mean to experiment. to be playful, to know
what I want, to know what I want to add in my
life and to what to hold on to, what to let go.
I think that's what being creative, since we
mentioned this word so many times already, I
think that's what it means at least. That's actually
one of the words for this season, creativity
and connection. So, yeah. Well, thank you, Marilina.
It's such a joy to hear your story and how you
get here and so on. So, Hugh, now your turn.
So your path has taken also many turns and from
Curtis and collaborated with Hilary Hahn and
so on to and inventing Air Turn, the famous,
you know, pedal. This, you know, for those. who
are listening piano pedal comes in the regular,
you know, three pedals on down at the bottom
of the piano. Each one has a different function.
And then now this is like the 21st century version
of pedal, which we use this for page term. Right.
So, and you are part of the co inventor, right?
Yeah. Yeah. So how does this, entrepreneurial,
innovative curiosity come from? Well, I think
a lot of it came from growing up watching shows
like Star Trek. It was my first love. I loved...
This vision of the world where technology was
so pervasive and solved so many interesting problems
and was able to transport your imagination to
different worlds. And I love that. I love that
aspect. And I've always been drawn to fantasy
elements, you know, whether in books, reading
through the Lord of the Rings before the movies
came out, you know, or any of those kinds of
things, just wonderful exercises in imagination.
One of the curious things I can look back and
I think at first I was ashamed of it, but now
I'm actually glad I have this, was this innate
curiosity, you know, about how things work. I
remember coming to Curtis very young. I was 13
when I started there and attended a couple of
recitals and I was just baffled. You know, I
would sit there. I mentioned this at the beginning
of the episode. Like, I don't know what's going
on. I would ask my friends, what do you hear
when you hear music? And they had a hard time
explaining. And then here's a great example.
So when I came to Curtis, I came in with Eleanor
Sokoloff. She was my main teacher. But then George
Bullett, who was teaching at the time, one of
his students was not coming back. So he actually,
he was the head of the piano department at the
time. So he went to Eleanor Sokoloff and said,
I'd like to audition your students. I'd like
to take one of your students to add to my class.
She wasn't happy about it, but she didn't have
a choice. So all of the Sokoloff students played
for him. I remember playing for him. And anyway,
long story short. I became his student, but she
wouldn't let me go so soon, so I had two lessons
with her and one lesson with him every week my
first year. Well, one of my first lessons, I
brought a piece in, and then Mr. Bullett kind
of went, well, who told you to do this or that?
I said, well, Mr. Sokoloff. No, no, no, no, don't
do that. Do this. He would change a couple of
details. Well, I changed the details. Well, I
went back to Mr. Sokoloff with the same piece,
and she yelled at me, who told you to do this?
Mr. Paulette, don't do that. And that became
the very first conundrum. Who's right? They're
both my teachers and they're taking the same
piece of music and saying completely opposite
things. Who is right? And that question really
perplexed me. And I was probably a very annoying
Curtis student because I kept asking that question.
Well, why? Why are you doing it this way? Why
are you changing your mind there? Well, someone
says it does it this way. Why are you doing it
that way? And the puzzling thing was that many
people couldn't answer that question. They would
just say, just do it. Just follow your heart.
Why? How? So for me, I think the entrepreneurial
question came from seeing that there was an assumption
that as a classical musician, you just know.
You're just supposed to know everything. I didn't
know everything. And I wanted to know everything,
but nobody was giving me answers. So I think
a lot of that came from just being honest with
my ignorance. I don't know. And I want to know.
And eventually, I'm not ashamed of owning up
to, I don't know. I want to learn. And so that
came from that, I think, from that mindset. And
that also helped me to see, well, I'll tell another
story. The entrepreneurship, I think, came more
out of seeing, number one, this breakdown in
communication between artists and audiences.
Right. Yes. I heard all throughout my upbringing,
music is the universal language. Well, if it's
a universal language, we have a syntax problem
because most of the people just don't understand
what we do. Again, pragmatically speaking. i
experienced that i would go to a concert i'd
be bored out of my mind and somebody somebody
would play something suddenly and my heart would
race and i didn't know why and i wanted to really
try to be better at explaining that phenomenon
first to myself but then more importantly to
other audiences how can i make the music that
i love so much now that i understand it better
How can I pass that understanding to other people
and get them to fall in love with this incredible
art that is able to truly connect? But we just
need to do, I think, a better job of conveying
that connection a little bit more clearly. And
the other parts of the entrepreneurship really
came from practical things. Being at Curtis,
after I graduated, they asked me to come on faculty.
And then in addition to becoming the director
of instrumental accompaniment, I suddenly became
the director of student recitals when the person
in that position died. Well, that's a full -time
job. And this is back in the days when we were
using lecture typewriters to type out programs
and make notes. And it was just horrifying. And
I thought, there's no way I can do this and still
play with all the students. Luckily at that time,
Computers were a new thing. I'm really dating
myself here. So I was the first one to use a
computer at Curtis because I just brought my
own home computer there. First I used, and then
I thought, if I could figure out a way for the
computer to automate the process of making programs,
that would be great. So I tortured myself, but
I learned how to make what's called a relational
database. A relational database. Simply being
where instead of me typing Beethoven's name and
then typing his year, birth and death year, dozens
of times, or individually typing those pieces,
these tables could refer to each other. One table
would be Beethoven's table. The other table would
be his repertoire table. The other table would
reconnect to a student name, instrument name.
And all those tables would come together. And
then I found a way of creating programs instantly.
I can go into that for hours and hours. That
was a transformational moment for me. Suddenly
I saw the power of computers, how that could
change the operation of an entire program. Went
from this being a full -time job to something
I could do in three minutes. Instead of spending
two weeks writing a report, instantly just spit
out a 300 -page report. When I saw this, I realized,
wow. Now, what if, this is back way before we
had anything called a tablet, right? We all had
laptops, you know, but what is dreaming? Wouldn't
it be amazing if, because I was, you know, carrying
lots of music in my bag and thinking. Oh my goodness.
I was forgetting music in my office, forgetting
music at home. I can't tell you how many trips.
One time I flew out to, I was the pianist with
Aaron Roseanne at one point for many, many years.
And one time we flew out to St. Louis, opened
up the bag and I was missing music. There's no
music store. There was no internet to download
the music at the time. It was just paper music.
And the smoke that came out of his ears and just
the shame I felt of not having my music with
me. My dream was, Wouldn't it be amazing? This
sounded like a crazy dream. Wouldn't it be amazing
if I could have every piece I play in one device
and just carry everything with me? That was my
real dream. And then when Microsoft came up with
the tablet PC in 2001, the first time that a
computer could show a full page of music vertically
instead of just the half screen we see on a laptop,
that was my aha moment. That was it. I bought
one, spent lots of money at the time. They scan
some music, use the pen to draw notes. It was
like, this is it. My dream has come true. This
was before iPad. Oh, way before. The iPad came
out in 2010. So now I'm thinking, how do I turn
the pages? Because I can now only see one page
at a time. That's where the idea came for creating
a pedal, a pedal system. I jury rigged so many
different pedal systems. everybody at school
laughed at me they were like who is this crazy
guy walking on stage with these machines and
cables and pedal contraptions and playing music
it just looked more like a science experiment
than a classical musician but you know that led
to um somebody coming sitting in the audience
one day seeing my crazy invention running up
to me afterwards and saying We've been looking
for you for five years. We finally found you.
She flew me out to Colorado to meet my business
partner, Lester Karpis. And he said, we've been
looking for you. Let's start a company. Just
like that. It was crazy. But again, I think a
lot of it was just this hunger to know, hunger
to answer questions, and a hunger to think outside
the box. The other thing I've always been very
concerned about is Again, coming at it from an
administrative point of view and seeing how dependent
on the economy a lot of these nonprofits were.
If the donors aren't there, that operation lights
out. And everything from the Philadelphia Orchestra
to Curtis Institute of Music to any other institution,
they're very fragile tenants holding on to whatever
the economic situation of any given environment
is and thinking, there's got to be a better way.
there's got to be a better economic model for
all of this. So for me, the entrepreneurship
is really a quest to find a better business model
for being a musician, for organizations, for
presenting concerts, for connecting people and
music and musicians. So it's just an ongoing
experiment with everything involved with making
what we do sustainable. This has been an exciting
journey. Well, I personally want to thank you
for creating this wonderful tool. Very welcome.
Yeah, yeah. I made it for myself. But this is
like my second one because the first one, you
know, living in New York, you just to and fro,
you lose things. And one of them was obviously
I lost this. So then I had to just quickly buy
something cheaper. Just in the meantime, and
I try that. So compared to Airturn, this cheaper
version was obviously terrible. You know, what
happens is like once you, you know, tap once
and then just you go 10 pages ahead, you know,
like that. But this one has this own like, I
don't know, the perfect resistance and super
intuitive. told me uh for in the video that you
know by doing the forehand duet so you have two
different tablets but with this one can you tell
us yeah so that's what's what really unique and
actually um this is something i discovered as
the need was there but apparently um several
app developers have built this in the app that
we use for our music reading is called fourscore
but there i know they're the music is another
one, N -E -W -Z -I -K, French developers. They
also have this capability where one iPad can
be the master and it can actually connect locally,
directly to other iPads and change all their
pages. So it's designed really for orchestras
and ensembles and things like that. But we use
Fourscore. It's an option called Q, C -U -E,
where one iPad can be the master and the other
iPad's the slave. You can determine whether you
open music together or just turn pages. And that's
what I have it set to. So I'm the page turner
and her iPad works with mine. And it's great
because that way. Even with scores where we have
both parts of one page, she can have her markings
on her version. I can have my markings on my
version. So our scores are really our own scores
and we can optimize that and we don't have to
worry about page turns. You know, speaking of
page turns, in Delaware two weeks ago when we
taught the master class for the Piano Institute,
a lot of the time we spent on teaching the kids
how to page turn. And none of them had any iPads.
None of them, I don't think they had ever heard
of air turn, but we got back to the old fashioned
way. And we, I think for every single duo, we
emphasize that over and over the fact that it's
so page turning, deciding who turns when is as
important as playing the notes. Because if you
can't do that, then really you can't play. I
mean, right. And to me, it was it was it was
a joy to to teach that to them because I was
taught to turn my own pages. And I know that
he doesn't like that, but I do not use air turn.
I have used it a couple of times and it was not
a success. It always it failed. Something happened
on stage and I decided that I should trust my.
skills to practice the real funny thing is her
you know she's she's younger you know and she's
more old -fashioned than i am i'm the guy that
wants to get all the tech toys in some in some
ways yes and in some other ways no but it's funny
yeah to to observe that um but it was you know
i think it was quite interesting to to go back
to the Primitive? Yes, to the primitive, because
this is where things started. You have to know
where things started. You have to know history,
right? You have to know the past. So it was quite
extraordinary. I mean, at the end of the program,
at the final concert, they all did a great job,
you know, just turning pages and flawlessly,
I would say. reminded me of the days when i was
learning how to turn pages in in such a way that
it didn't disturb music and and it's a skill
to be practiced and yes i agree that air turn
saved a lot of time um and uh effort but i'm
just saying there are still people that prefer
the paper the paper and yeah yeah I remember
a student a long time ago, a young student come
to my office and I had invented the air turn.
She's like, but I love the smell of paper. And
I'm like, clearly there's a difference between
where my brain is, where everybody else's. It
is great. I mean, when you get a new book, right?
I mean, this is what I do and I'm not ashamed
of it. I smell the book. It's great. The smell
of new. book of paper. So I think what's really
interesting is finding ways of connecting the
old and finding new ways of presenting them.
That's an interesting tension between us. It
keeps me on my toes. Yeah. That's so cute. So
now this may be too personal. If that's the case,
just let me know. But because, you know, I ask
every guest to fill out the form, guest form.
So that I can create a meaningful, you know,
topics of conversation. And your questions are
amazing. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Thank you. Thank
you. Thank you. But one of the things that you
mentioned in the form that you both came from
experiences where you lost everything and had
to discover how to build a new life completely
from scratch, a life where you had to develop.
courageous creativity. So that really stuck with
me. And somehow I'm able to connect with you
in very complicated ways. But, you know, this
is not my story. So if possible, if you can share
even just a little bit of what that means. Sure.
You want to go first? Yeah. I mean, when I first
came to the States, all I had, literally all
I had, were two luggages and $500. That's all
I had. And I had to carefully select the things
that I had in my luggage in terms of clothing
and stuff because I couldn't afford buying. And
it was basically starting from scratch. Literally,
I knew no one here. I was 29 years old. So at
my age, I had former classmates that had married,
even had kids or were already with a job. Oh,
and one year before the final move, I was a freelancer.
I had never tried that. I had never been in the
position of being a freelancer in terms of, you
know. Leaving off concerts, leaving off gigs.
And that taught me a lot about keeping cool,
about not freaking out and about making connections.
And this ability to make connections extended
when I came here. And I learned even more about
that. I remember the feeling of insecurity that
was there every day, because wanting to make
this big move made me give up the security of
finding a job, the security of settling, I guess.
For example, I started my DMA in Bucharest, but
then... you know, I just decided I don't want
to do that. I don't want to do this. And I realized
that it was not me who started it. It was not
me who was convinced to do that. It was someone,
it was people around me. It was my teachers that
wanted me to go into DMA there. But that was
not me. It was not what I wanted to do. And then
luckily, opportunity presented itself and I met
the right person to determine me to make this
big move and bold move and um except my mom there
was no one to leave behind it was just her if
I you know if I had to think of someone to leave
behind and that was just her so um it was hard
because Coming to a new place where you don't
know anyone, you don't have any friends, you
are on an extremely tight budget and you don't
even know how economy works. You don't know anything
about dollars. I mean, I was like, what bill
is this? I couldn't even figure out the coins.
And I'm still having a hard time sometimes. But
yeah, it was challenging. It helped me. helped
me understand better how the world works and
how I work and how can I adjust myself into this
new environment. It taught me a lot about myself,
what I can do, my strengths, my weaknesses, not
to mention that pandemic hit four or five months
after my arrival, this pandemic hit. So I was
trapped in my dorm room and, you know, classes
went on Zoom, of course. I had a very old laptop
that didn't work whatsoever. So the one that
I brought with me from Romania, it was five or
six year old, not even updated. I couldn't have
Zoom on it. And so I borrowed a laptop, an Air
Mac, sorry, Mac Air. from a temple which offered
that so you know in a way um i could see that
um conditions to learn conditions that temple
university provided were were way better than
what i what i had for example in romania like
no one prepared me for this right so um and then
and then i started um looking around for um churches
romanian churches and i found a church on brown
street i think 20 minutes or so away from temple
and i started going there because i felt the
need for romanian community i still wanted to
you know be able to speak face to face with with
people to speak my own native language we think
yes So that was helpful. That was helpful. But
remember the first probably three months or so
were very, very difficult. I remember at some
point after a month, we had just finished a studio
class night. Dr. Bugner has, even now, she gathers
all her students once a week and we play in front
of each other. And not to mention that the pace
of learning things is more accelerated here overall.
You have to really be quick. Like there's no
way to linger. There's no way to take it easy.
After that, you learn and you adjust and then
you can slow down a bit. But at first you have
to, or at least that's how I saw things. I had
to prove myself. There was no time to come up
with excuses. And I remember, so after that night
studio class, I don't know, what i played but
it was it didn't go as well as i wanted and i
i felt that you know i'm gonna say that there
was no encouragement i just i i didn't feel um
that i was adjusting there um as i had hoped
so and um i was um on the stairs in front of
a rock hall building and um i just i started
I just lost it. I think it was the first time
when I felt to just let it out, you know, in
form of tears. And I saw that at that point,
everybody had left home and Dr. B came out of
the building and told me what's going on. And
I told her, like, I'm so sorry. I messed up and
everything. And there was so late. I couldn't
call anyone here in Romania. I mean, it was late
because of the seven hour difference. So it took
me a while to, to find the pace. It took me a
while, but as difficult as it was. And like I
mentioned, there was a pandemic that added up
to that. I would do it all over again, because
I think this is how you, find answers, a lot
of answers. And this is how eventually, eventually
you start feeling good about yourself. This is
the only way, you know, just sobbing and staying
in an environment that it's just clearly doesn't
work anymore because that's what was going on
before. It was not working. Things were not working
for me. You know, I think that's the only way.
as paradoxical as it sounds, just take the leap,
take the leap and see where you land. You have
to land somewhere. You have to. And before that,
the preparation for it, because Temple was not
the only option that I had, I decided to, so
I had tried three times to come to the States.
So first time, I think it was Houston. They wanted
to give me a scholarship, but then something
happened and they just canceled it. And then
I tried, I think it was Michigan, same thing,
but I didn't go there to audition. I didn't audition
in person. And then the third time I said, I'm
going to do this right or I'm not going to do
it at all. It was the third time and that's it.
And I auditioned for 10 universities. I prepared
and Hugh still doesn't believe it, but I kept
the notebooks and the planners and everything.
i prepared auditions for 10 universities across
the the us and i raised money myself and i prepared
everything like every single document that that
goes with it the toefl exam the um you know having
your diplomas legalized and sent over and researched
for universities and program and repertoire and
it was it was a lot of um a lot of work that
i did by myself no one knew absolutely no one
knew except my mom but she wasn't quite sure
that i was gonna do that anyway um so it in a
sense it was it was very exciting right to prepare
for something like that like something big um
and i was pretty much aware of what implied right
but like i said it you really you really have
to be really desperate to to do that and i think
yeah um that that's why i i said i would do it
over again just yeah because right now um i'm
very grateful for how things turned out um because
i've learned a lot something that i i'm sure
i could not have learned being back in romania
you know at some point you just have to feel
when it's time to move on really you just have
to feel and just have to go with that and and
i'm i'm i was happy to discover similar situation
that hugh went through you know in terms of we
we could share and we could understand each other
you know that there was a time when that was
the bottom of course very very uh different experience
unique experiences right right right but the
core of it was was was similar you know so that's
the common thing that you shared. More than music,
dual music. Yeah. Equally, I don't know. Maybe
equally. And the fact that, you know, I grew
up in the 90s right after the revolution when
Romania was opening up and it was opening up
very, very slowly. And for the first, I would
say, 10, 15 years, it was still the aftermath
of communism. And, you know, I could see that
we do have more things in common. than we think.
Even if I'm younger, it doesn't matter, but we
still have certain life values that make us think
like, boy, it's like we grew up in the same place
at the same time. Yeah. Well, thank you for being
candid and sharing this beautiful part of your
story. So now, Hugh, it's your turn. Well, I'll
share a story, actually much younger, when I
was invited by a local orchestra to do a tour
to perform Rachmaninoff's, no, no, no, it was
the Beethoven Emperor Concerto. They do a tour,
local tour, and at the time I was studying with
Seymour Lipkin. And I remember coming up to him,
I was so excited. Seymour, or Mr. Lipkin, I'm
going to play the Emperor Concerto with such
and such an orchestra. And he looked at me and
said, No, you're not. You're not ready. I was
so devastated. And he just said, call the conductor,
cancel the tour. You're not ready. I'm not going
to permit it. I remember feeling so angry, so
disappointed. I was in shock. I mean, I was never
told I can't do something. There's an opportunity,
you know? And so I did something very interesting.
I drove out to the local hobby store back when
we had hobby stores. I bought a model of the
USS Enterprise. And I stayed up all night. I
didn't get any sleep. I just stayed up all night.
Building this model enterprise, the decals, I
was so angry. And the only way I could get this
anger or this emptiness out was to build something.
It sounds strange. By the morning, I had this
beautiful model of the Starship Enterprise. Kind
of worked out my anger. And I decided, you know
what? I'm going to do it anyway. I played the
concerto. I performed with it. And I've gone
since. had a chance to perform that Ampere Concerto
many times afterwards. And, and I'm really glad
that as a youngster, I had the courage to defy
my classical music. You never defy your teacher.
I, you know, I just, it was, I thought that was
the wrong way to do it. You know, for me, I'd
rather perform and make a mistake. Then he was
the kind of person, he was kind of teacher that
was so afraid of, he, he would play a concert.
And we'd be just like, oh, Mr. Lipkin, that was
incredible. That was wonderful. And he'd be just
like beating himself up and just couldn't allow
himself to enjoy the beautiful music he made.
I'm like, where is this coming, this self -masochism,
you know? And it just, I couldn't do that, you
know? Fast forward, you know, many years there
have been situations where, yes, and I've had
my share of beating myself up too. One of the
patterns I've seen. There was one, there was
one particular incident where, well, one episode
of my life where just everything was gone. I
was very, I was just kind of rock bottom. And
I decided to go and start a business. Another
separate business. Okay. Just all in this whole
new business. And it was a collaboration. And
at first it was great, you know, and then it
just, you know. Took my mind, you know, focused
my energies. And, you know, I felt a lot of loss,
but I felt like I was building something new
through this. Well, a few months into it, we
had a big, big disagreement in terms of how things
should run. Clearly some miscommunication because
it was quite successful. We had this miscommunication.
And then I, and again, here I am again, rock
bottom. I'm about to lose this whole new venture
that I just spent all this time and energy investing
myself in. What did I do? I started a podcast.
I threw myself in. This is my old podcast called
A Musical Life, and I went on to interview some
pretty amazing musicians. I interviewed people
like Peter Schickley before he died. PDQ Buck.
PDQ Buck, and also... Yeah, time for three when
they were just getting started. Yo -Yo Ma. Yo
-Yo Ma. Actually, yeah. Sony Productions actually
reached out to me and just said, you know, they
were inviting podcasters to come out and interview
the Silk Road Ensemble. They were releasing a
new album. So I thought I would be, you know,
one of, you know, dozens of people in the room
or something. But I went up to New York City.
I was the only podcaster. Yeah, it's a really
new thing. Yeah, so I was the only podcaster.
I got to interview like two or three people in
the radio station. Then they brought me into
the radio booth where I got to set up my camera
and interview Yo -Yo Ma. Oh, wow. It was kind
of cool. Yeah, he's a great guy. So the podcast
went really, really. So I've had these, if there's
a pattern that I've noticed in my life, when
things are taken away from me or I'm very, very
disappointed. My therapy is just to go on a creative
binge. And again, I don't know how I would teach
this, but some of the best creativities have
been when I've been forced out of absolute desperation
or despair or just frustration, just a feeling
like I've hit a brick wall in something. And
then my brain just goes and just latches on to,
maybe I'll just start a new hobby. I remember
starting to teach myself how to shoot a bow,
you know, the recurve bow just from scratch.
Out of nothing, you know. And these kinds of
creative, I think there's a lot of validity to
some of the greatest art comes from our greatest
loss or our greatest moments of despair where
the creativity becomes a healing mechanism. You
know, where something, you know, if you feel
like something beautiful, something positive
is coming out of all this desperation or all
this frustration. That's just been the pattern
of my life. I've seen this over and over again.
Not that I welcome the terrible, desperate, awful
times. No one wants that. But I think when you're
an artist, and I'm going to even put this out
there, even for folks who don't think that they
are artists. There are always artistic venues
that anybody can reach towards to channel, you
know, channel this frustration, channel this
despair, channel the loneliness, channel the
loss. You know, we can do it destructively. We
can drink a lot. We can ingest things. We can,
you know, really take things that either numb
us, right? And I've been in that period of time
too. I've been too. Or we can take that. and
then rechannel it into something that, you know,
it can be learning something brand new for the
first time. Thank you so much. I mean, we are
coming toward the end of the conversation. So
what I want is let's promote. The floor is yours.
So tell us what you have coming up and where
our listeners can experience more of your music.
Oh, so this is coming out at the end. At the
time of this publication, it's the end of September.
We have... Just to check our website. And one
of the things that we're being more active with
is certainly getting our newsletter ramped up.
We haven't actually done a newsletter in a while.
We're getting that back up again. So I encourage
you to join our newsletter list and go to matahew
.com. There's a whole list of the concerts that
we have coming up. We've got a number of concerts
already booked at this point, and we're going
to continue to be booking more things. more projects
in terms of video projects. We're going to be
doing more forehand videos and stuff. So there's
always going to be something, but be sure to
sign up because we may be coming to a town near
you. So check out our concert tour list on our
website at matahew .com. Sure. And then you're
also active on Instagram, TikTok. I mean, I got
a message from you. He's on TikTok. I'm on Instagram.
Yeah, we share that. Great. And the Facebook
and so on. So that people can connect with you.
Yep. Great. Now, before the rapid fire questions,
is there anything else? Are we good? Can we move
on to that? I think we're good. I mean, I think
the thing to be looking out for is we're going
to be working on a series of educational content.
Oh, wonderful. That's developing. Yes, we're
developing actually a history of forehand piano
music. We're going to be looking at, I think
partly we were just so inspired by being guest
teachers at this piano institute and running
into so many interesting compositions. that were
so expertly curated by Lotus Cheng, who was the
director of the program there. I mean, I was
so impressed with how she was able to find such
disparate pieces that matched the levels of the
kids. We want to do a deep dive to sharing more
of the repertoire, not only from the classical
period, but also what's being published now that's
worth for, you know, we want to become a resource
for teachers. so that we can help teachers and
publishers and composers. And so we want to try
to be a nexus for folks who want to explore the
forehand literature more. So that's going to
be an ongoing project. So a lot of resources
we're developing for that too. Yeah. And also
a new repertoire to learn. We have a work by
a Hungarian composer, Peter Wolf, very good friends
with Sarah Davis Bugner. Oh, I remember. Yes.
Yeah. some of his Wolf tempered clavier pieces.
Oh yeah, that's right. Yes. Very imaginative
and creative music. And yeah, he wrote, I believe
he wrote a forehand piano piece for us that we
have not recorded yet. So we have to do this.
We have this, this, this little bucket list of
repertoire pieces that we have to. dive in any
of your arrangements available as a score yeah
actually curiously enough if you come to our
patreon page our patreon page is where we usually
post our arrangements Not all of them, but many
of them. We have to be careful because I know
with the John Williams estate, we're not allowed
to post our John Williams arrangements. To monetize,
actually. But if you become a Patreon supporter
on our Patreon page, I mean, first of all, we
would really appreciate it. And that's where
we distribute all of our, you know, what we can.
We distribute our scores there. Great. Well,
before I let you go. We have one more thing to
do, the PianoPod rapid -fire questions. Now,
we take this segment very seriously. You've shared
stories and expertise today, but these questions,
the upcoming questions, carefully curated by
my team, me, will give our listeners a glimpse
into who you truly are. So let's do this. What
is your comfort food? Cauliflower pizza. Curried
ribs. How do you like your coffee in the morning?
Medium roast with homemade almond milk, cinnamon,
and cardamom. Recently discovered this new mushroom
coffee. So now it's going to be black coffee
with her homemade almond milk. She makes an amazing
homemade almond milk and mushroom coffee all
mixed together with some agave. Wow. Very specific,
you guys. Yeah. Next question. Sunrise or sunset?
Sunrise. Sunset. Summer or winter? Summer. Winter.
Level two. What skill have you always wanted
to learn but haven't had a chance to? Dance.
Romanian. Romanian. Oh. And we're still working
on it. I'm still not very good. I can say one
sentence in Romanian. I can say, That's great.
Did you understand? Yeah, they are. No, she is
my friend. Oh, my friend. Okay, cool. That's
so cool. I had a Romanian roommate in college.
Oh, there you go. Yeah, there we go. Right. What
is your word or words to live by? Carpe diem,
music making, you know, stuff like that. Depends
on the mood and day. Create something. Favorite
venue you have ever performed in. Carnegie. Carnegie.
Carnegie's Ankle Hall, that's for sure, yeah.
What is the most important quality you look for
in other people? Creativity and craziness. Sense
of humor. Name a composer you wish more people
knew about. George Crumb. Mel Boni. All right.
Two more questions. Name one piece in your current
playlist. Doesn't matter the genre is. Wait,
I'll retract my answer. You go, you go. I want
to think about it. Hey, hey, we're the monkeys.
I don't know. Thunderstruck. ACDC. Okay. All
right. There we go. All right. Last question.
Fill in the blank. Music is blank. Music is the
most expressive and powerful tool to connect
people. Music is food. Music is food. Oh, this
is the first one. This is a very pragmatic. Ding,
ding. Congratulations. Well, you know, it's something,
like I said, I... I didn't realize those three
years that I was in a drought. I didn't realize
it until I was actually fed again. And then I
realized how hungry I was and how much I needed.
So, yes, for me, music is food. Great. Madalina
and Hugh, thank you so much for joining us today.
Oh, my goodness, Yukiko. Thank you so much for
the wonderful questions. Yeah, your podcast is
just incredible. I think I don't know anyone
to do this. And to edit it and to do, yes. This
kind of depth. The depth of your questions, yeah,
and discussion. Yeah, but, you know, just like
what you do and creativity and so on, and then
you just obsess and you do it, that sort of thing.
And it's the same thing for me. And then this
is giving me, a lot of, you know, many, so many
things. So it's just being able to talk to artists.
I mean, without this platform, I would never
have met you guys to begin with. And then this
has been a really wonderful conversation. Yeah.
It was because of Dr. Buechner in a way because
she was, yeah. But hopefully next, hopefully
next time we were in Brooklyn, if we get a chance,
we'd have to grab some dinner together. Oh, yeah.
Sounds great. We're not too far each other. So
we need to hang out. Yes, definitely. Yeah. So
anyway, going back. So, I mean, we really appreciate
you being here and sharing your journey and really
being candid with your stories and opinions.
So to our audience, if you'd like to explore
more of Mada and Hugh's work, visit their website
at madahugh .com and follow their YouTube channel
at Mada Hugh Piano Duo for the latest performances,
arrangements, and so on. with them on Instagram,
TikTok, Facebook, and support their work through
Patreon. You can find all the links in the show
notes. And of course, a huge thank you to all
of you, our faithful fans and listeners for tuning
in. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give
it a thumbs up and subscribe. I saw a lot of
thumbs up popping out. I didn't know what they
were. I know, right? It's just a platform thing.
Yeah, I have to figure it out. But please share
and review this episode on your favorite social
media platform and tag the Pianapod. It's one
of the best ways to help our community grow and
we love hearing your feedback. For the latest
updates, the guest news and stories that spark
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on Substack, TikTok, and LinkedIn. I'll see you
in the next episode of the Pianapod. Thank you,
Mara and Hugh. Thank you. Take care. Thank you.
Say bye. Oh, bye. Bye. Bye.