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This episode is brought to you by Juneteenth

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LP, a dynamic ensemble and organization dedicated

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to celebrating Black history and artistry through

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music. Learn more about their powerful mission

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and upcoming events at juneteenthlp .org. Thank

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you Juneteenth LP for supporting this episode.

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Welcome back to the piano part, everyone. And

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thank you so much for joining me today for this

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very, very special episode. Today marks the season

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five finale, and I truly cannot think of a more

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powerful way to close this remarkable chapter

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of authenticity and joy than with the conversation

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you're about to hear. This entire year has been

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a deeply meaningful one. 20 episodes featuring

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21 phenomenal guests from six countries across

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three continents. We have grown into a global

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community with over 2 ,900 YouTube subscribers,

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an increase of 300 from last season, and a significant

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rise in our podcast downloads across all audio

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platforms. We opened the season with the legendary

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Sarah Davis Buchner, and now we conclude with

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the extraordinary Maria Thompson Corley. What

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a journey it has been. And this year has brought

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even more milestones. We launched our new substack

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with over 10 % of subscribers now supporting

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us as VIPs. We were named one of three finalists

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for the 2025 Quill Podcast Awards in the Best

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Video Podcast category. None of this would have

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been possible without you, our listeners, supporters,

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and collaborators. I am so incredibly grateful

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to each one of you for being part of this journey.

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Amid a year of challenges in the arts world,

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including widespread cuts to public funding,

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this season reminded me that especially in uncertainty,

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we can still find beauty, connection, and a deep

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sense of purpose in the work we do as artists.

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Now today, to commemorate Juneteenth, we are

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continuing our partnership with Juneteenth LP,

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and I am honored to welcome today's guest, Dr.

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Maria Thompson -Corley, a powerhouse of creativity

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and compassion, whose artistry defies categories.

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Maria is a concert pianist, composer, poet, novelist,

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educator, voice actor, and advocate for inclusion

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in the arts. But it's her honesty, clarity of

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purpose, and depth of care that leave the most

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lasting impression. In this episode, we talk

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about her bold reflections on inclusion and cultural

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ownership in classical music, her discography

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and original compositions ranging from solo piano

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to opera, how real life experiences, the joys

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and the challenges of raising a family have shared

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her artistry and redefined her understanding

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of success. and her far -reaching vision of inclusion,

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not as a token representation, but as a meaningful

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cultural shift rooted in authenticity, creativity,

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and care. This conversation is everything I hoped

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Season 5 would be. Brave, generous, and deeply

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human. Although this is our final episode of

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the season, I can't wait to return in September

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for Season 6 with the themes of creativity, and

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connection. We already have an exciting guest

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lineup in the works and an incredible live event

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on October 4 at the new school's Stiefel Hall

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hosted in collaboration with Manus Prep. So please

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stay tuned for more. Until then, thank you for

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listening, thank you for supporting, and please

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enjoy this unforgettable Season 5 finale with

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the incomparable Dr. Maria Thompson -Corley.

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You are listening to The Pianopod, where we talk

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to the brightest minds in the industry about

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how they are bringing the piano into the future

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and thriving in a complex, ever -evolving world.

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Welcome to The Pianopod, Maria. It's truly a

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joy and honor to have you with us today. Well,

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I'm so grateful you asked me. Of course. Yes,

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I've actually your name was on the list guest

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list wish list for since season one. Wow. Yes,

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and I just didn't get a chance to invite you.

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So I'm so grateful. And then anyway, and your

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multifaceted career as a pianist, composer, poet,

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writer, I didn't realize this part of your life,

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like being a writer and poet, I never knew of

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that. And so I'm very excited and an educator

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and of course, an advocate husband. really nothing

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short of inspiring and I'm in awe of your artistry

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and also presence today and then you are redefining

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what it means to be a classical musician of the

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21st century not only through your exceptional

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creative output but through the depth, integrity

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and heart you really put into everything you

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do. Five years ago which is 2020. So that's when

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I attended your workshop, online workshop that

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was hosted by the Piano Teachers Congress of

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New York. Yes. And then you did the presentation

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titled Widening the Main Street. And you introduced

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us to so many wonderful Black composers, including

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your piece that you featured towards the end.

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You performed your piece. But so you opened up

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the workshop with a powerful reflection of, you

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know, with so much music already in the mainstream,

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why widen it? And the answer you said was very

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obvious, like, and you called it out that the

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long standing assumption around the what defines

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complexity, who gets to be seen as talented,

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who gets to hold cultural ownership over the

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classical canon, biases that still impact programming,

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pedagogy, school leadership, representation in

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higher positions throughout the classical music,

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and so on until today. So in five years, how

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do you think we are doing in the classical industry?

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I mean, I've seen some changes, definitely. For

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example, I've been asked by the Royal Conservatory

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of Canada to submit pieces for inclusion in the

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repertoire, and a couple of my pieces were accepted

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there. I was also recently contacted by the...

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I'm thinking of the... I'm blanking on the acronym

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or the letters that, but it was the Royal Conservatory

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equivalent in London, England. And so I submitted

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a little piano piece for their fifth grade collection.

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Is it ABRSM? That's it. Yes. I didn't want to

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get them wrong. I should have been thinking of

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what they, yes. Board of the Royal Schools of

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Music, yes. So yes, I was asked to submit a piece,

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so that's good. And I think, I know that they

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said that there were nine people they approached.

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I don't know who the other ones were, but I see

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the effort at least continuing. And I don't know,

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you know, how long it will continue, but I think

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that it will be harder to put the genie back

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in the bottle, honestly, at this point. even

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those who would like to put the genie back in

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the bottle, I think it's a little bit too late

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for that. And people are realizing that, yes,

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there are a wide range of people, whether they

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were women or whatever their ethnic background

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or racial background or whatever, however else

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you want to define it, who have created music

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that is worthy of hearing and worthy of performing

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and studying. And yeah, I feel like now I saw

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something the other day. This is about women

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specifically. And I don't know what the list

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of major orchestras, you know, how they determined

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that, but I'm sure, you know, their criteria

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were very stringent. That performed music by

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women was still seven percent or something like

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that. So, you know, obviously there's work to

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still be done, but I feel hopeful. that this

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direction will continue in the artistic community

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and that there's not a big drive to turn back

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the clock in that regard. Doesn't seem there

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is really. Yeah, I think we've come a long way

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since then. Although, you know, the progress

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sometimes we feel so slow. But, you know, in

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retrospect, wow. You know, I think our mindset

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has shifted tremendously. I think it was like

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hearing the if, for example, black pieces by

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black composers was so rare, or should I, you

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know, the mindset was like, should I include?

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Can I play this? But that's not the case anymore.

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Yeah. And what I what I find is that, and understandably,

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way past her death, Florence Price had a huge

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renaissance. And I feel like on one hand her

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music is amazing on the other hand it sort of

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checks two boxes at once and people don't always

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explore you know some further corners so to speak

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you know it's sort of like you're doing Florence

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Price and I saw that at least to begin with with

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some of the programming of concerts and orchestras

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and things like that so I'm I'm not against that

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at all. But, you know, I'm hoping that they'll

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continue to look at other people. And I think

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that they are. I think I'm on the artistic committee

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of a music festival that's local. It's Mount

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Gretna. And so that's, you know, not too far

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from here. And I noticed that most of the programming

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of the classical performers includes, you know,

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it's not just the straight canon anymore. You

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know, there's always something that isn't. part

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of that. So it's good. Oh, wonderful. Yeah, it's

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so great to hear. But I know that you've been

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performing, excuse me, compositions by black

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composers for even before way before 2020. I

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know that I in fact, the albums, I think first

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one was produced in 2005. The soul scape or 2006

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something 2006 was the release date for soul

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scapes. I actually did several years before that.

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a recording of pieces by Leslie Adams. Yes, that

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was my first solo piano recording. And I will

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say that when I was coming through school, I

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grew up in Western Canada, and obviously there

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was no focus on music by Black composers there.

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there was some focus on female composers in that,

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you know, Violet Archer was very well known there,

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Jean Coulthard. So they were well respected.

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And in fact, Violet Archer taught at University

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of Alberta where I got my undergraduate. But

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it was something that, you know, it just wasn't

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even in my mindset. And it really could have

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been, I guess, I just I don't know if it was

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a lack of representation that I didn't really

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see. Black classical composers and so I didn't

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really think there were any and I give credit

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to the people who Challenged that obvious fallacy.

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I mean, why wouldn't there be any but you know,

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certainly not in Canada And I was focused on

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learning some of the great standard literature

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pieces that I'd heard and wanted to play and

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all that So when I got to Juilliard Again, it

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wasn't a focus and my teacher was wonderful,

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you know on George Shondor was, you know, that

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wasn't a focus of his either. Now, the Schoenberg

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was right up the street. I could have gone and

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done some research and I certainly played spirituals.

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And I started to become acquainted with a little

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bit of art song. And I was a pianist for Opera

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Ebony, which was based in New York. And so they

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would do scenes from, for example, Dorothy Redmore

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wrote a piece about Frederick Douglass and I

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performed different scenes from things as part

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of concerts with opera ebony. But again, for

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whatever reason, I didn't draw the line or I

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wasn't curious enough or whatever it was in my

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youthful ignorance that I just kind of wanted

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to learn what I wanted to learn and had always

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wanted to learn. And it wasn't until I went to

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Florida A &M as a professor. that I was exposed

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to, first of all, Margaret Bonds and Troubled

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Water, which is, you know, one of her most famous

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pieces, and some pieces by Samuel Coleridge Taylor.

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And, you know, then that sort of cracked the

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door open, and that was also the period that

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I met Daryl Taylor, who is the founder of the

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African American Art Song Alliance. And he introduced

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me to Leslie's music. He was a real champion

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of Leslie's music to begin with and then sort

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of championing all kinds of black composers.

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And through him, I met Leslie. And it was a performance

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that Daryl and I did that led Leslie to give

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me these new piano etudes that he was working

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on. He had decided he was going to write 26.

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For whatever reason, that number just appealed

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to him. And so he asked if I'd be interested

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in getting them. And of course I was. So having

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been given these pieces that hadn't been performed,

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I was able to world premiere. Five of them had

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been performed. I world premiered the first 12.

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And also through Daryl, I had met Louise Taupin,

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who is, at the time she was running Vidaemus

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records. I mean, she stepped away from that now,

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but asked if she'd be interested in a recording

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of Leslie's, these 12 etudes. And that's how

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that came about. People I knew introduced me

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and gave me opportunities and I was able to capitalize

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on them, I guess. this when you mentioned about

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you realized that you didn't know much about

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black composers that history of you know black

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composers and so on then you started more incorporating

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I think that's what what's all about right like

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a mindset a shift of mindset that happens so

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we are taught oh play you know the usual composers

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like Bach, Chopin, they are all great. And that's

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what the conservatories, you know, traditionally

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expect of you to perform all these wonderful

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greats in perfection. But then there are so many

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other composers that we missed out and we are

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not even taught or educated. And also we feel

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like, oh, we have to do all these, you know,

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mainstream greats in order for us to be considered

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or even in order for us to feel classical musicians.

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Does this make sense? Yeah, no, I understand

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what you mean. It's like if you're not covering

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that core, then, you know, are you really, you

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know, so I suppose you can play whatever and

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it can be extremely difficult or expressive or

00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:42.500
whatever else. But, you know, someone sitting

00:17:42.500 --> 00:17:45.279
somewhere is like, yes, but could they play Brahms

00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:49.380
or whatever, you know? Now, I think it again,

00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:52.380
it's important to cover those composers. And

00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:54.500
I don't think that we were trying to get rid

00:17:54.500 --> 00:17:59.089
of them. It's just I mean, there are pieces that

00:17:59.089 --> 00:18:01.769
have been played a gazillion times for good reason.

00:18:02.410 --> 00:18:05.970
There's a reason why they're so famous. And I

00:18:05.970 --> 00:18:10.170
think that it's more of a challenge of expression

00:18:10.170 --> 00:18:12.529
and exploration if you have a piece of music

00:18:12.529 --> 00:18:16.809
that doesn't have like 200 YouTube videos from

00:18:16.809 --> 00:18:23.329
which, especially as a student or even as a professional

00:18:23.329 --> 00:18:27.900
pianist, that you have to create You really have

00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:30.599
to decide what you want to bring with it. You

00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:34.259
are in conversation with the score, and you are

00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:37.240
not relying on, okay, well, I like how Horowitz

00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:39.619
did this, and I like how Rubinstein did this,

00:18:39.980 --> 00:18:44.099
or whoever else. Yeah, so I think it demands

00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:47.400
more of you as a musician to approach something

00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:49.880
that doesn't have this long track record, really.

00:18:50.339 --> 00:18:54.119
You mentioned that about your recording of Leslie

00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:58.700
Adams etude. really enjoy them so much. What

00:18:58.700 --> 00:19:01.599
an incredible series of etudes. And we're going

00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:04.400
to circle back, but before, I kind of want to

00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:09.339
know your artistry today. So I usually start

00:19:09.339 --> 00:19:11.940
up a conversation with, you know, if you were

00:19:11.940 --> 00:19:14.299
to capture the essence of your artistry, mission

00:19:14.299 --> 00:19:16.799
and passion in just a few sentences, how would

00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:20.940
you define who you are as an artist today? Well,

00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:23.480
I believe that everything that I do, the through

00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:27.099
line is storytelling. So whether I'm using words

00:19:27.099 --> 00:19:29.579
or whether I'm using music, whether I'm creating

00:19:29.579 --> 00:19:32.859
the music or interpreting the music, I believe

00:19:32.859 --> 00:19:37.759
that we should be taking on a journey. And there

00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:42.440
should be that sense of, you know, I mean, even

00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:44.559
abstract storytelling, even if I don't have a

00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:46.980
specific program in mind that I've created for

00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:52.980
myself, we should Be experiencing a mood or a

00:19:52.980 --> 00:19:55.259
series of moods or something that is going to

00:19:55.259 --> 00:20:00.259
speak to us The listener and obviously it has

00:20:00.259 --> 00:20:03.400
to speak to me before I can try to translate

00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:08.140
that to the listener so Yeah, I think that that

00:20:08.140 --> 00:20:10.400
is definitely the through line is just I want

00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:15.539
to express ideas or tell a story in some way

00:20:15.539 --> 00:20:18.279
Wow, yeah, I mean make sense because you have

00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:22.029
such a gift of storytelling and writing and which

00:20:22.029 --> 00:20:25.250
we're going to explore a little bit more later.

00:20:25.950 --> 00:20:28.769
But now also, we briefly spoke on the phone a

00:20:28.769 --> 00:20:31.529
few weeks ago and to prepare for this conversation.

00:20:31.809 --> 00:20:35.130
And you share the motherhood is as important

00:20:35.130 --> 00:20:39.210
and a central part of who you are, not just as

00:20:39.210 --> 00:20:43.269
being a mom, but also being a person and as an

00:20:43.269 --> 00:20:45.730
artist. And you wanted to bring that into our

00:20:45.730 --> 00:20:50.299
discussion today. So how has being a mother of

00:20:50.299 --> 00:20:53.640
two artistic children, because I think your daughter

00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.039
is a wonderful singer and then your son, who

00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:00.519
is also the neo -divergent spectrum on the spectrum.

00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:04.460
And also he has a wonderful, he's a wonderful

00:21:04.460 --> 00:21:07.240
painter. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. So talented.

00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:10.480
Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I don't know why I'm

00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:11.960
saying thank you because I didn't do anything.

00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:18.470
But yeah, I have found. Now, I will say that

00:21:18.470 --> 00:21:22.089
I wasn't somebody who, you know, grew up as a

00:21:22.089 --> 00:21:23.309
little girl saying, oh, I can't wait until I

00:21:23.309 --> 00:21:25.769
can be a mom. I'm just, you know, I was really

00:21:25.769 --> 00:21:31.450
more focused on being a pianist. And I believed

00:21:31.450 --> 00:21:34.309
that and I know everybody has to make a definite

00:21:34.309 --> 00:21:39.190
choice. If you have children, some people choose

00:21:39.190 --> 00:21:42.529
to like walk away from whatever their career

00:21:42.529 --> 00:21:46.180
was. I felt like having had this passion for

00:21:46.180 --> 00:21:49.099
being a musician since I was very young that

00:21:49.099 --> 00:21:51.680
I didn't want to like amputate part of myself,

00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:54.500
which is what it would have felt like, you know,

00:21:54.500 --> 00:21:56.740
when I had children. However, I felt like it

00:21:56.740 --> 00:21:59.200
was a huge responsibility if you decide that

00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:02.019
you're going to bring people into the world that

00:22:02.019 --> 00:22:05.380
they didn't ask for that in my estimation. So,

00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:07.099
you know, you have to take that very seriously.

00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:13.299
So. I've tried to find a balance between doing

00:22:13.299 --> 00:22:18.220
the things that I really feel are core to me

00:22:18.220 --> 00:22:22.480
or have helped me maintain even some semblance

00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:30.059
of sanity and empowering and encouraging my children.

00:22:30.700 --> 00:22:33.039
And because my son is on the autism spectrum,

00:22:34.339 --> 00:22:37.079
I'm kind of grateful. Well, I'm very grateful

00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:40.299
that I have been able to do something that allows

00:22:40.299 --> 00:22:42.880
me to work from home so much, because so much

00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:45.559
of what I do is practicing, I teach in my house,

00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:47.660
I compose in my house, and it's not like I never

00:22:47.660 --> 00:22:51.900
leave my house, but I have more flexibility because

00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:56.779
of that. And he is a very social person. So it's

00:22:56.779 --> 00:22:58.480
good that, you know, he has opportunities to

00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:01.420
go out and be out without me. So I'm grateful

00:23:01.420 --> 00:23:05.259
that he was born in a time that and in Pennsylvania,

00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:08.440
the services for people on the spectrum are actually

00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:14.140
rather good. And so, yeah, so so I feel grateful

00:23:14.140 --> 00:23:19.539
for for where we are right now and the timing

00:23:19.539 --> 00:23:23.339
in that people were doing more. for people on

00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:25.980
the autism spectrum. But it certainly informs

00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:29.920
everything I do. So I'm not, I don't know if

00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:33.839
I would have enjoyed when I was younger traveling

00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:38.059
all the time if I had had that opportunity. In

00:23:38.059 --> 00:23:41.259
the end, it wasn't something that happened. Although

00:23:41.259 --> 00:23:43.079
I have a couple of trips, I've had more trips

00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:45.920
lately, which is shocking to me. But, you know,

00:23:45.940 --> 00:23:49.380
I did some of that. But, you know, once he was

00:23:49.380 --> 00:23:52.569
born, I certainly wouldn't have been, you know,

00:23:52.670 --> 00:23:55.150
okay, can you go here or there for a week? And

00:23:55.150 --> 00:23:59.529
it was not, yeah, it was sort of off the table.

00:23:59.809 --> 00:24:05.509
Also because my ex and I, well, he's my ex. So,

00:24:05.750 --> 00:24:08.950
you know, when I was, got divorced and I had

00:24:08.950 --> 00:24:11.869
really custody of my children, that changed the

00:24:11.869 --> 00:24:14.670
equation again. So perhaps if that had worked

00:24:14.670 --> 00:24:17.589
out, I might've done more traveling, but it didn't.

00:24:17.630 --> 00:24:23.430
And so, But I have no regrets in that regard.

00:24:24.049 --> 00:24:27.329
I feel like my musical life has been so very

00:24:27.329 --> 00:24:32.390
rich. And I know that for the people who do travel

00:24:32.390 --> 00:24:36.140
a lot, there's a sense of kind of rootlessness

00:24:36.140 --> 00:24:39.000
in the set. Like I was talking to a really well

00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:41.799
-known singer the other day and, you know, either

00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:43.420
I, I can't remember who asked her, well, where

00:24:43.420 --> 00:24:45.119
are you living right now? And she said nowhere.

00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:49.680
And so I don't know that I would have ever been

00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:53.849
on that level, honestly, but. Yeah, that's not

00:24:53.849 --> 00:24:56.710
something that I think I aspire to anyway. So

00:24:56.710 --> 00:24:58.549
these are things that, you know, when I was a

00:24:58.549 --> 00:25:01.450
child, I really dreamed of like traveling all

00:25:01.450 --> 00:25:04.349
over the world and, you know, that sort of lifestyle.

00:25:04.609 --> 00:25:08.910
And I don't know that it suits me to do more

00:25:08.910 --> 00:25:11.509
than, you know, a few trips a year or, you know,

00:25:11.910 --> 00:25:15.130
I don't know that I would really have thrived

00:25:15.130 --> 00:25:17.589
that way. It's hard to say, but I don't, you

00:25:17.589 --> 00:25:21.720
know, you can't rewrite the history and I'm grateful

00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:24.559
for all of the things that I have. I'm grateful

00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:26.740
for him. I'm grateful for my daughter, who's

00:25:26.740 --> 00:25:28.779
currently in Los Angeles, and I miss her a lot.

00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:34.740
And so for my particular path, I think the combination

00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:37.700
of things has been, you know, something wonderful.

00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:43.059
Yeah, wonderful and complicated too. And yeah,

00:25:43.259 --> 00:25:48.200
yeah. Yeah. In the air, you know. Right. But

00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:51.430
it's not something that, as you said, uh you

00:25:51.430 --> 00:25:54.609
didn't expect or you didn't dream of and you

00:25:54.609 --> 00:25:56.750
know you thought of one thing and then the life

00:25:56.750 --> 00:26:00.210
just Throwed you a lot of different curve balls

00:26:00.210 --> 00:26:03.069
and it did but I think we all get curve balls

00:26:03.069 --> 00:26:06.190
though I mean whatever our choices and I i'm

00:26:06.190 --> 00:26:07.750
not one of these people who thinks everybody

00:26:07.750 --> 00:26:10.569
needs to have children to feel like a fully formed

00:26:10.569 --> 00:26:14.569
human You know, I don't believe that at all so

00:26:14.569 --> 00:26:21.180
My particular path But maybe because you were

00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:26.619
sort of forced to be rooted in, I guess, you

00:26:26.619 --> 00:26:31.400
know, one spot or one town, then maybe that's

00:26:31.400 --> 00:26:33.940
maybe do you think that's that contributed to

00:26:33.940 --> 00:26:36.559
your creativity? Like you maybe you were more

00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:40.220
creative, creative person. But, you know, being

00:26:40.220 --> 00:26:42.920
creative, because creative person people are

00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:46.640
free in our mind, their minds, which means somehow

00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:50.450
physically. don't we have to be worded somewhere?

00:26:50.910 --> 00:26:53.690
Rather than? I don't know. Yeah, that's a good

00:26:53.690 --> 00:26:57.150
question. I mean, I mean, you have to have you

00:26:57.150 --> 00:27:00.529
have to find time to do these creative things.

00:27:01.309 --> 00:27:05.049
And it's harder. I mean, I used to write things

00:27:05.049 --> 00:27:09.390
or do arrangements on the on an airplane, you

00:27:09.390 --> 00:27:14.150
know. I don't know that I'm so motivated to do

00:27:14.150 --> 00:27:18.430
that now. So I think that for where I am now,

00:27:18.549 --> 00:27:20.750
it's good that I have, you know, I can get up

00:27:20.750 --> 00:27:23.549
and be in one place and I may have a number of

00:27:23.549 --> 00:27:26.269
things that I don't have to do when I leave town

00:27:26.269 --> 00:27:29.349
that are welcome things that I, you know, I'm

00:27:29.349 --> 00:27:31.089
like, oh, yeah, I don't have to wash the dishes

00:27:31.089 --> 00:27:33.250
and, you know, all these sorts of things. But

00:27:33.250 --> 00:27:37.720
um, For me personally, I think finding the time

00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:40.259
to do things and not having to think about, okay,

00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:42.500
I have to be here, you know, I'm traveling to

00:27:42.500 --> 00:27:45.380
there. And I mean, I know of composers who go

00:27:45.380 --> 00:27:48.099
on retreats or writers or whoever, and they go

00:27:48.099 --> 00:27:50.380
on a retreat for a couple of days. And that's

00:27:50.380 --> 00:27:52.420
something that maybe I would be more able to

00:27:52.420 --> 00:27:56.319
do if I weren't still a caregiver. But on the

00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:59.400
other hand, you know, it hasn't stopped me from

00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:03.700
doing what I do. And so, yeah, I think. I think

00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:07.180
I think we can be creative. If we're truly creative

00:28:07.180 --> 00:28:09.299
in whatever the circumstances, we just figure

00:28:09.299 --> 00:28:14.779
it out. Yeah. Definitely. Well, thanks for really

00:28:14.779 --> 00:28:17.859
opening up and telling me honestly about this.

00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:23.599
And but so lately, you know, I tend to save these

00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:25.319
questions a little later in the conversation,

00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:27.559
but I think it's important that we begin with

00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.359
this. So I kind of want to know your beginning.

00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:33.500
So you were born in Jamaica. raised in Canada

00:28:33.500 --> 00:28:36.480
and eventually moved your way to New York City

00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:41.259
to attend Julliard and the legendary George Sandor.

00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:44.000
Am I pronouncing? I mean, I think it's Sandor.

00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:47.319
I tried to. I tried to pronounce his first name

00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:50.660
in the Hungarian way, and I never got it right.

00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:53.940
The GY eluded me. So he said, you can call me

00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:55.319
George. And I was like, well, that's not your

00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:58.400
name, really. But it was like Juj. And I'm sure

00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:00.900
that's horrifying to anybody who has. who speaks

00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:03.240
that language. But yes, Mr. Shondor, I think

00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:07.099
Shondor is correct. He's a legendary. I'm not

00:29:07.099 --> 00:29:10.920
pronouncing it right, that's all. So can you

00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:14.559
tell us about your upbringing? What kind of environment

00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:17.079
nurtured your creativity? Sounds like you already

00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:20.619
have this innate, not just ability or gift of

00:29:20.619 --> 00:29:26.279
music, but also the desire. Yes. Well, my grandmother

00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:28.759
actually attended the New England Conservatory

00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:32.720
as a piano major. on my mother's side. So that

00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:35.460
was quite something back in the day. I mean,

00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:38.400
she wasn't there when, I know Florence Price

00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:40.640
was there. She wasn't there with Florence Price,

00:29:41.259 --> 00:29:46.640
but she, so that aspect in classical music was

00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:49.640
on that side. Now, my grandmother had four children

00:29:49.640 --> 00:29:52.809
and I think after this, when she gave birth to

00:29:52.809 --> 00:29:55.990
the third child, she stopped practicing. My mother

00:29:55.990 --> 00:29:58.170
is the oldest and she remembers when she played

00:29:58.170 --> 00:30:00.950
and she remembers, you know, the performances.

00:30:01.029 --> 00:30:04.970
She lived in Bermuda and so, you know, my grandmother

00:30:04.970 --> 00:30:07.690
and my mother, but, you know, very much my grandmother

00:30:07.690 --> 00:30:11.450
always wanted me to keep playing. That was very

00:30:11.450 --> 00:30:15.440
strong. My grandmother taught piano. for many

00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.299
years and, you know, but she didn't really, I

00:30:18.299 --> 00:30:21.160
never heard her play. And unfortunately, there

00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:23.420
are no recordings of her playing. I wish I'd

00:30:23.420 --> 00:30:28.190
been able to hear her. So my mother, got some

00:30:28.190 --> 00:30:30.390
lessons. She was the one who did the most with

00:30:30.390 --> 00:30:32.890
piano. And the thing was, my grandmother taught,

00:30:33.109 --> 00:30:36.230
but her children got sort of the last slots.

00:30:36.690 --> 00:30:38.470
And my mother was the only one who was really,

00:30:38.470 --> 00:30:41.990
really very interested in it. So my mother was

00:30:41.990 --> 00:30:44.609
my first piano teacher and she taught all I had

00:30:44.609 --> 00:30:47.769
for there were four kids in my family, and we

00:30:47.769 --> 00:30:51.730
all had to take piano lessons. But I really wanted

00:30:51.730 --> 00:30:54.529
to. My brother was the oldest, and he was taking

00:30:54.529 --> 00:30:56.029
lessons. And I guess from the time I was two,

00:30:56.029 --> 00:30:58.549
I was asking for lessons. And yeah, I had to

00:30:58.549 --> 00:31:03.609
wait till I was four. And then soon after that,

00:31:03.630 --> 00:31:08.470
my mom said she decided to look for somebody

00:31:08.470 --> 00:31:10.630
else to teach me. I think I should know this.

00:31:10.630 --> 00:31:14.009
She knows this. I was six or I was eight. I can't

00:31:14.009 --> 00:31:16.160
remember which. But anyway, I was still pretty

00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:19.299
young when I started taking lessons outside of

00:31:19.299 --> 00:31:22.619
the home and my sisters all continued and we

00:31:22.619 --> 00:31:25.359
all took lessons on I ended up taking violin

00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:28.019
for walks I fell in love with the violin and

00:31:28.019 --> 00:31:30.460
you know but it was always my second instrument

00:31:30.460 --> 00:31:32.019
I mean I started playing violin I think it was

00:31:32.019 --> 00:31:36.039
about 10 and I played until I was about 20 -ish

00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:43.119
21. Anyway So my dad, from my dad's side, he

00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:45.140
was not someone who was into classical music

00:31:45.140 --> 00:31:47.980
when he was young and, you know, got exposed

00:31:47.980 --> 00:31:50.440
to it through my mom. And then he became, you

00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.200
know, he drove us to all the lessons and he listened

00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:56.119
to a lot of different kinds of music. Like the

00:31:56.119 --> 00:31:59.180
CBC is the equivalent of public, is the public

00:31:59.180 --> 00:32:02.240
radio station there. And driving to and fro,

00:32:02.420 --> 00:32:04.599
we'd listen to all kinds of things like, you

00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:07.920
know, Gaelic ballads and, you know, they just

00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.839
had all kinds of music. But he also was very

00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:15.440
much into reggae and jazz. He loved the classic

00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:17.579
jazz singers like, you know, Sarah Vaughan, I

00:32:17.579 --> 00:32:19.299
think, was his favorite. But there were a lot

00:32:19.299 --> 00:32:23.940
of those ladies who he really appreciated. Nat

00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:27.759
King Cole, we listened to his piano playing as

00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:31.319
well. And they also listened to not huge amounts

00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:34.819
of gospel, but Mahalia Jackson was one, and Roland

00:32:34.819 --> 00:32:37.839
Hayes, we listened to the spirituals. So there

00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:40.940
was a wide range of musical styles played in

00:32:40.940 --> 00:32:47.049
my house. you know, in Canada, you take history,

00:32:47.289 --> 00:32:51.710
music history exams as you take your piano exams

00:32:51.710 --> 00:32:54.369
and you know, your training. So it's all a system

00:32:54.369 --> 00:32:58.450
of things. So yeah, my so my upbringing, I was

00:32:58.450 --> 00:33:01.609
very much exposed to all these things. And when

00:33:01.609 --> 00:33:05.230
I graduated from high school, was about to graduate

00:33:05.230 --> 00:33:10.849
from high school, I it was I was sort of thinking

00:33:10.849 --> 00:33:12.829
well maybe I should go into computer programming

00:33:12.829 --> 00:33:15.210
because that seems to be a more practical thing

00:33:15.210 --> 00:33:18.750
to do or whatever but then I knew that that wasn't

00:33:18.750 --> 00:33:21.950
really what I wanted to do and so I just decided

00:33:21.950 --> 00:33:25.930
that you know and I had my parents support that

00:33:25.930 --> 00:33:28.630
I was just going to go for it and go into music

00:33:28.630 --> 00:33:32.829
so it was a place where I mean there was a lot

00:33:32.829 --> 00:33:35.109
of creativity in my house there was also every

00:33:35.109 --> 00:33:37.819
summer we were on the swim team and we didn't

00:33:37.819 --> 00:33:39.700
really practice the piano much during the summer.

00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:41.700
We didn't practice anything very much for at

00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:45.500
least two months and just like played outside

00:33:45.500 --> 00:33:50.460
and just did all kinds of you know kid things.

00:33:50.500 --> 00:33:53.119
I mean it was a time when you just ride your

00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:56.180
bike and then no one had a cell phone and you

00:33:56.180 --> 00:33:59.279
know to come home at a reasonable hour but the

00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:04.049
swim club was a lot of fun. twice a day for an

00:34:04.049 --> 00:34:08.650
hour each. And so it wasn't like anybody was

00:34:08.650 --> 00:34:11.550
trying to be like, oh, you know, force you into

00:34:11.550 --> 00:34:16.110
doing it. Now, my mom did demand that we practice

00:34:16.110 --> 00:34:18.429
at least to some extent, but it wasn't OK, you

00:34:18.429 --> 00:34:21.630
have to practice for three hours a day or any

00:34:21.630 --> 00:34:24.449
particular prescribed amount. It was, you know,

00:34:24.449 --> 00:34:28.530
as our teachers would if the teacher said that

00:34:28.530 --> 00:34:30.550
you weren't practicing enough or, you know, there

00:34:30.550 --> 00:34:34.510
were certain things then we had to do more. But

00:34:34.510 --> 00:34:37.329
I got tired of being told, OK, go practice your

00:34:37.329 --> 00:34:40.929
music. And it wasn't that I didn't love it. I

00:34:40.929 --> 00:34:43.389
did love it. But it was sort of like there were

00:34:43.389 --> 00:34:46.889
so many other things my brain was doing. So I

00:34:46.889 --> 00:34:50.429
think when I was about 12, maybe, or 12, 13,

00:34:50.510 --> 00:34:52.670
I was like, OK, no one is ever going to tell

00:34:52.670 --> 00:34:54.510
me to practice my music again. I don't want to

00:34:54.510 --> 00:34:57.530
hear it. And I just took it on and I became more

00:34:57.530 --> 00:35:01.630
serious. So I really A lot of things came easily

00:35:01.630 --> 00:35:04.849
to me as a little kid. You know, I had good natural

00:35:04.849 --> 00:35:09.750
facility and tended to be musical and some of

00:35:09.750 --> 00:35:13.110
the attention to the details of things, you know,

00:35:13.309 --> 00:35:15.809
like really making sure that this technical passage

00:35:15.809 --> 00:35:18.250
was really worked out. You know, a lot of times

00:35:18.250 --> 00:35:23.230
it would work. And I think I got more into that

00:35:23.230 --> 00:35:27.070
when I was about, you know, on the cusp of adolescence

00:35:27.070 --> 00:35:31.369
and really made a commitment And then when I

00:35:31.369 --> 00:35:35.389
was 17, I was in college, I was driving to college

00:35:35.389 --> 00:35:39.150
and I had a major car accident and I had a concussion.

00:35:40.230 --> 00:35:42.989
And before that, I never had any performance

00:35:42.989 --> 00:35:44.889
anxiety. It was just like, yeah, it'll be fine.

00:35:45.989 --> 00:35:49.269
But when I and you know, I would get into it.

00:35:49.289 --> 00:35:51.559
I mean, I loved. I loved performing, I loved

00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:54.539
the music, and I didn't stop loving the music,

00:35:54.659 --> 00:35:58.079
but I had this concussion and then suddenly every

00:35:58.079 --> 00:35:59.840
once in a while I'd have a small memory lapse.

00:36:01.019 --> 00:36:05.880
And that was when my performance anxiety, you

00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:08.159
know, I started developing performance anxiety

00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:13.519
for obvious reasons, but I always loved being

00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:16.920
a musician too much to just you know, say, oh,

00:36:16.940 --> 00:36:18.639
well, this is a problem and I'm not going to

00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:22.320
do it anymore. So I guess that really confirmed

00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:28.380
that music was really part of my core in every

00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:33.880
way. So. And where does this old writing and

00:36:33.880 --> 00:36:36.260
so many other ways of creativity come from the

00:36:36.260 --> 00:36:41.059
desire? I always wrote. too, like when I was

00:36:41.059 --> 00:36:44.260
a kid, I and you know, whether it was in school

00:36:44.260 --> 00:36:48.260
or there's some novels that probably will never

00:36:48.260 --> 00:36:50.780
see the light of day that may have been lost

00:36:50.780 --> 00:36:53.440
forever. And that might not be a bad thing that

00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:57.460
I wrote, you know, but I don't know. It was just

00:36:57.460 --> 00:37:01.500
like I always had a lot of ideas. And I realized

00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:03.920
over the course of time of people asking me about

00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:07.829
being a composer that I I wrote little pieces

00:37:07.829 --> 00:37:11.769
when I was a kid too. I just, I mean, like there

00:37:11.769 --> 00:37:15.269
was a collection of four little piano pieces

00:37:15.269 --> 00:37:17.969
called Naughty Co -glypses and spelled like naughty,

00:37:18.309 --> 00:37:21.329
like a little kid being naughty. Tells of a kindergarten

00:37:21.329 --> 00:37:24.570
class that I wrote when I was like 13 or 14.

00:37:24.670 --> 00:37:27.030
And I did some light revisions later on when

00:37:27.030 --> 00:37:29.170
I was really thinking of myself as a composer.

00:37:29.349 --> 00:37:32.070
And I had a teacher, her name was Lydia Pals,

00:37:32.090 --> 00:37:36.909
who said, you know, the first piece right in

00:37:36.909 --> 00:37:38.929
the style of such and such a person. And that's

00:37:38.929 --> 00:37:41.769
how they, she, and I think a lot of people teach

00:37:41.769 --> 00:37:46.750
you to compose things, but my brother was a filmmaker,

00:37:47.070 --> 00:37:50.550
even as a kid, he was very much into writing

00:37:50.550 --> 00:37:52.349
as well. He wrote, you know, like screenplays

00:37:52.349 --> 00:37:54.530
and he wrote other things. And so we'd organize

00:37:54.530 --> 00:37:57.429
this to do movies, like the number of kids and

00:37:57.429 --> 00:37:59.489
we'd shoot super eight movies. And so we asked

00:37:59.489 --> 00:38:03.079
me to be like, the score, film score, you know,

00:38:03.179 --> 00:38:06.320
so when I think of it, I actually was making

00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:10.559
up things from way back when I just didn't, it

00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:12.519
didn't register something that I did, you know,

00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:14.519
when I was writing songs, I tried to write like

00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:17.900
pop songs when I was a teenager, too. And then

00:38:17.900 --> 00:38:20.280
it didn't. And somehow, you know, and those are

00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:22.860
that song writing, but I didn't think of myself

00:38:22.860 --> 00:38:27.420
as composing. And I don't know if it was because

00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:30.329
I didn't know of women. or black women who were

00:38:30.329 --> 00:38:34.030
composers. And so just the legitimacy of what

00:38:34.030 --> 00:38:37.170
I was doing was something that was outside of,

00:38:37.329 --> 00:38:40.429
you know, what I didn't really it doesn't make

00:38:40.429 --> 00:38:42.750
sense looking back at it now that I didn't think

00:38:42.750 --> 00:38:47.329
I was composing. But, you know, it sounds like

00:38:47.329 --> 00:38:50.510
almost like it's like immediate creative creative

00:38:50.510 --> 00:38:54.510
problems. So solution like you learn as a kid,

00:38:54.510 --> 00:38:57.480
you know, like your brother ask you to just compose

00:38:57.480 --> 00:38:59.559
something and then you're like, okay, you know,

00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:02.360
I'll just Yeah, well, I mean, I think it was

00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:05.760
because I was improvising and I played by ear.

00:39:06.099 --> 00:39:09.840
You know, I had perfect pitch and I would like,

00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:12.440
play things by ear all the time. And I think,

00:39:12.820 --> 00:39:16.780
you know, add things to them. So yeah, but it

00:39:16.780 --> 00:39:19.519
was it was a vote of confidence on his part.

00:39:19.619 --> 00:39:21.460
I guess it was like he was going to commission

00:39:21.460 --> 00:39:24.760
someone to do these things. So If anyone was

00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:26.639
going to do it was going to be me, I suppose.

00:39:28.300 --> 00:39:31.280
Wow. But, you know, as early that your memory

00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:36.000
from that childhood is and how you are as a composer

00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.739
today, it's incredible, you know, the path that

00:39:38.739 --> 00:39:41.900
you took. And because I understand that you are

00:39:41.900 --> 00:39:45.139
you didn't study composition at Julliard, right?

00:39:45.380 --> 00:39:50.139
You know, studied. Yeah. But you know, I took

00:39:50.139 --> 00:39:53.099
this one class that the only other people in

00:39:53.099 --> 00:39:56.659
it were composers. And I think there was maybe

00:39:56.659 --> 00:39:58.739
a flutist, but I believe I could be wrong. I

00:39:58.739 --> 00:40:01.340
think she dropped out. And the reason I took

00:40:01.340 --> 00:40:03.559
the class was because it was every other week.

00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:06.480
And it was in the morning, three hours every

00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:10.099
other week with Steve and Albert. And I thought,

00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:12.159
okay, well, I'll be able to sleep in every other

00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:15.050
week. So there was no, it wasn't, but it was

00:40:15.050 --> 00:40:18.070
process and inevitability in music, which I think,

00:40:18.349 --> 00:40:22.170
I mean, and the point was that some choices became

00:40:22.170 --> 00:40:24.829
inevitable in the construction of a piece, which

00:40:24.829 --> 00:40:27.530
I never really understood. And I in the sense

00:40:27.530 --> 00:40:30.750
of inevitable, like, you know, so I had a problem

00:40:30.750 --> 00:40:35.070
with the premise of the class. But anyway, I

00:40:35.070 --> 00:40:36.650
mean, I felt like I was swimming most of the

00:40:36.650 --> 00:40:38.329
time, because I didn't know if I was getting

00:40:38.329 --> 00:40:42.289
on with what he was about. But I, you know, this

00:40:42.289 --> 00:40:44.469
is the only B plus that I was like, oh, wow,

00:40:44.489 --> 00:40:47.630
I got a B plus. But as I think of it, you know,

00:40:48.289 --> 00:40:50.210
I guess I was a composer in that class, too.

00:40:50.210 --> 00:40:54.530
And it was more like analyzing compositions and

00:40:54.530 --> 00:40:57.250
trying to decide why the choice that the composer

00:40:57.250 --> 00:41:01.630
made was the inevitable choice. Just really,

00:41:01.630 --> 00:41:06.429
you know, philosophical to me stuff, but Yeah,

00:41:06.429 --> 00:41:09.110
but I never studied composition with him. Now,

00:41:09.110 --> 00:41:12.989
since I've become a composer, I've had people

00:41:12.989 --> 00:41:18.469
like Laurie Lateman and Juliana Hall and Jeffrey

00:41:18.469 --> 00:41:21.369
Ryan is a Canadian, really renowned Canadian

00:41:21.369 --> 00:41:27.309
composer and Evan Mack. I did a, it was like

00:41:27.309 --> 00:41:29.679
a, not an internship, what am I saying? Like

00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:32.579
a mentorship program that the National Association

00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:36.199
of Teachers of Singing came up with shortly after

00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:38.800
George Floyd was murdered and they were trying

00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:43.199
to enable, it started off with black composers

00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:47.280
as giving us a platform and also mentors who

00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:49.480
could look at our compositions and give us, you

00:41:49.480 --> 00:41:54.079
know, some guidance. So I would say that certainly

00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:58.230
that was you know, a limited, not like, you know,

00:41:58.369 --> 00:42:01.369
collegiate study, but it was something. And,

00:42:01.369 --> 00:42:03.469
you know, the mentorship that I had from Jeffrey

00:42:03.469 --> 00:42:06.210
Ryan through the Canadian Art Song Project, they

00:42:06.210 --> 00:42:07.949
commissioned me to write a piece and then they

00:42:07.949 --> 00:42:10.710
had, you know, asked him if he would mentor me

00:42:10.710 --> 00:42:14.510
through that process. Because I hate to say it,

00:42:14.530 --> 00:42:18.750
George Floyd's murder caused a lot of organizations

00:42:18.750 --> 00:42:22.590
to say, hmm, maybe we should take another look

00:42:22.590 --> 00:42:26.909
at how we're representing Black composers. And

00:42:26.909 --> 00:42:30.570
I think, obviously, everybody, each group that

00:42:30.570 --> 00:42:33.630
is not as represented as they should be, you

00:42:33.630 --> 00:42:37.289
know, deserves that sort of, that sort of attention.

00:42:37.690 --> 00:42:43.550
But that was the focus right then. And so as

00:42:43.550 --> 00:42:47.949
a result, I was able to get a little bit more

00:42:47.949 --> 00:42:52.210
instruction. I'd already written some songs and

00:42:53.420 --> 00:42:55.559
I'm trying to think the timeline. No, I wrote

00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:58.280
the piano pieces after that. Now the pandemic

00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:01.500
was actually pretty good for me on a creative

00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:06.159
sense, you know, because I, yeah, so I had more

00:43:06.159 --> 00:43:11.760
time. And one of the compositions that I was

00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:13.440
commissioned to write, and you know, YouTube

00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:15.800
has been good to me too, I have to say, because

00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:18.579
I just started posting things on YouTube. And

00:43:18.579 --> 00:43:20.960
somebody found me and wanted me to write a song

00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:28.119
cycle. for a young lady named Taylor Jasmine,

00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:34.400
I think she goes by Jasmine White. And so it

00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:38.579
was commissioned by a university, Loyola University.

00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:42.099
And that was like, helped me, got me through,

00:43:42.099 --> 00:43:45.340
you know, financially towards the beginning of

00:43:45.340 --> 00:43:47.480
the pandemic that she found me and commissioned

00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:52.190
these pieces from me. Um, and then yeah, it was

00:43:52.190 --> 00:43:54.650
just like, I really felt, wow, God is looking

00:43:54.650 --> 00:43:57.670
after me. Because, I mean, like a lot of us were

00:43:57.670 --> 00:43:59.869
sort of like, oh, what do we do now? You know,

00:43:59.869 --> 00:44:01.670
and then you figure it out that you can teach

00:44:01.670 --> 00:44:05.789
online and, you know, are you wearing a mask

00:44:05.789 --> 00:44:07.650
and all these sorts of things that we had to

00:44:07.650 --> 00:44:11.150
figure out. But I would say that I mean, I composed

00:44:11.150 --> 00:44:14.750
one of the more popular of my cycles grasping

00:44:14.750 --> 00:44:18.500
water before the pandemic. But sort of that as

00:44:18.500 --> 00:44:21.059
a springboard to other things, you know, after,

00:44:21.059 --> 00:44:24.559
you know, to be honest, I didn't realize this

00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:28.619
composition thing came pretty recently, like,

00:44:29.260 --> 00:44:33.019
so 2020 is the time that you were able to devote

00:44:33.019 --> 00:44:35.860
yourself and create a part of your life. Like,

00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:38.920
me too, I started the show in 2020. So it was

00:44:38.920 --> 00:44:41.369
like a blessing. you know, in the skies, you

00:44:41.369 --> 00:44:45.110
know, it was difficult, but then I was able to

00:44:45.110 --> 00:44:49.090
really tap into who I am and what I want in my

00:44:49.090 --> 00:44:52.650
life. Right. Yeah. But I didn't realize your

00:44:52.650 --> 00:44:55.429
composition. I mean, you've done composing before,

00:44:55.730 --> 00:44:59.969
but then. Yes, I did more arranging. And so,

00:45:00.070 --> 00:45:03.210
you know, going back into the 90s, I did, you

00:45:03.210 --> 00:45:05.510
know. choral arrangements, I was a church musician,

00:45:05.570 --> 00:45:07.690
I still am a church musician. And so I would

00:45:07.690 --> 00:45:10.690
sometimes do choral arrangements for that. And

00:45:10.690 --> 00:45:16.389
then in when, you know, my ex and I met at Juilliard

00:45:16.389 --> 00:45:19.530
and he asked me based on hearing a choral arrangement

00:45:19.530 --> 00:45:22.250
that I had done, if I would do some arrangements

00:45:22.250 --> 00:45:25.929
of spirituals for his master's recital. And so

00:45:25.929 --> 00:45:29.690
I did that. And then Daryl again, Daryl Taylor.

00:45:30.579 --> 00:45:33.360
I shared with him Steal Away, which is one of

00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:35.619
the ones that I did for for Chris, Chris Corlewis,

00:45:35.739 --> 00:45:41.039
his name. And so I years later, he looked at

00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:43.739
it like he was handwritten. He got into a stack

00:45:43.739 --> 00:45:45.880
somewhere. And then he was doing a recording

00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:47.800
of spirituals and he found it and he recorded

00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:50.360
it. But then he also said there was a program,

00:45:51.860 --> 00:45:54.420
not a program, but I don't know what you call

00:45:54.420 --> 00:45:57.500
it. It's sort of a call for people to write.

00:45:58.280 --> 00:46:01.079
music to words by County Cullen. County Cullen's

00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:05.440
poetry was in public domain. And so it was for

00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:08.059
the African American Art Song Alliance conference

00:46:08.059 --> 00:46:10.380
that he wanted to have this commissioning project,

00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:12.659
but we weren't getting paid, but, you know, just

00:46:12.659 --> 00:46:16.349
to write songs. And so he invited me to participate

00:46:16.349 --> 00:46:18.309
and I was like, well, I don't know if I can write

00:46:18.309 --> 00:46:21.210
songs. I know I can arrange things. He said,

00:46:21.230 --> 00:46:22.710
Oh, no, I think you could. I think you could

00:46:22.710 --> 00:46:25.550
write. And again, this is me who had written

00:46:25.550 --> 00:46:27.869
these little things for my brother. And I had

00:46:27.869 --> 00:46:30.369
written these popular songs or they weren't popular

00:46:30.369 --> 00:46:31.690
because they never got released. But, you know,

00:46:31.769 --> 00:46:34.190
songs that I thought were on that vein. And I

00:46:34.190 --> 00:46:36.610
didn't have trouble writing melodies. So I don't

00:46:36.610 --> 00:46:38.969
know. It just didn't click like I just didn't

00:46:38.969 --> 00:46:40.750
think of it. Maybe it was the concussion and

00:46:40.750 --> 00:46:46.210
I just, you know. But anyway, and 2015. So this

00:46:46.210 --> 00:46:50.869
song, Simon the Serenian Speaks, Darryl recorded

00:46:50.869 --> 00:46:54.090
it, or not recorded it, but he used it as the

00:46:54.090 --> 00:46:56.409
opening piece in a series of recitals he was

00:46:56.409 --> 00:46:58.889
doing in Spain and places in the States. And

00:46:58.889 --> 00:47:00.889
he told me he was doing this. And I was like,

00:47:00.889 --> 00:47:02.969
Oh, wow, I guess it was, you know, I guess that

00:47:02.969 --> 00:47:06.190
was good. You know, I liked it. But then I had

00:47:06.190 --> 00:47:08.510
this sort of intrigue already complex about,

00:47:08.610 --> 00:47:11.789
you know, is this any good? And some of the songs,

00:47:11.889 --> 00:47:13.960
like I wrote three songs and I think the other

00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:16.119
two weren't as good. I know they weren't as good.

00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:20.639
But just the idea of going forward and having

00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:23.860
that encouragement of no, you can do this. And,

00:47:23.860 --> 00:47:25.920
you know, this is legitimate. And, you know,

00:47:25.980 --> 00:47:28.880
so for me to think of myself as a composer, even

00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:33.940
as taken several years, and a lot of positive

00:47:33.940 --> 00:47:36.579
reactions, and now, you know, I always thought,

00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:38.880
okay, I like this, I didn't. feel like I needed

00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:41.340
someone else's permission for me to like it,

00:47:41.340 --> 00:47:43.559
but as to whether or not somebody else would

00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.239
like it. And now I'm sort of at the point that

00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:48.619
I'm not so much, I mean, it wasn't like I was

00:47:48.619 --> 00:47:50.639
writing them to say, well, I think people will

00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:53.360
like this or like that. It was just, especially

00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:55.440
if they're words, well, this is how I think these

00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:57.719
words need to be set. And that would be like,

00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:00.619
I think this needs to sound this way. And I would

00:48:00.619 --> 00:48:03.480
go with that. Or sometimes, you know, I would

00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:05.670
consciously say, you know, I've been writing

00:48:05.670 --> 00:48:07.110
some things that are kind of slow. I think I'm

00:48:07.110 --> 00:48:08.750
going to write something that's more upbeat or

00:48:08.750 --> 00:48:14.550
something. But the mindset shift, again, it took

00:48:14.550 --> 00:48:18.269
a little while. And it's like, do I legitimately

00:48:18.269 --> 00:48:21.489
call myself a writer? And I was saying, well,

00:48:21.510 --> 00:48:24.349
I'm not really a writer, even though I was publishing.

00:48:25.050 --> 00:48:27.789
Things were getting published in Broad Street

00:48:27.789 --> 00:48:30.869
Review. I started looking for freelance things.

00:48:30.969 --> 00:48:33.030
It was really trying to find. Well, how can I

00:48:33.030 --> 00:48:35.670
make a little more money? So, you know, they

00:48:35.670 --> 00:48:37.989
paid a little bit. And so I started doing things

00:48:37.989 --> 00:48:40.789
for us to get your view. And someone said, you

00:48:40.789 --> 00:48:44.030
know, well, you you're getting paid to write.

00:48:44.110 --> 00:48:46.909
So you're a writer. And to me, I go even further.

00:48:47.130 --> 00:48:48.710
I mean, even if you're not getting paid to write

00:48:48.710 --> 00:48:51.710
your writer, if you write, you know, it doesn't

00:48:51.710 --> 00:48:54.369
matter. You write and therefore you are a writer.

00:48:54.750 --> 00:48:58.170
And whether and I think. This is sort of like

00:48:58.170 --> 00:49:00.309
the artist's way, which was something I can't

00:49:00.309 --> 00:49:02.190
remember who had introduced me to that. But the

00:49:02.190 --> 00:49:07.849
idea is that creating art is something that if

00:49:07.849 --> 00:49:11.409
you create it, you are a creator. Now what everybody

00:49:11.409 --> 00:49:14.110
else thinks of it is not necessarily the point.

00:49:14.130 --> 00:49:18.230
And if it's not good, then you have to be willing

00:49:18.230 --> 00:49:23.960
and able to go from not good to better. And that's

00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:27.639
how do you do that by continuing to create? So,

00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:32.119
you know, will you get paid to do it? Maybe not,

00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:34.940
you know, and that for that, I'm eternally grateful.

00:49:34.940 --> 00:49:36.940
And that was not something that I was expecting,

00:49:37.460 --> 00:49:43.679
you know, but I still think that that spirit

00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:46.760
of I think I want to do this because this is

00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:49.360
something that speaks to me and I'd like to do

00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:53.530
like your podcast. I mean, that spirit. is something

00:49:53.530 --> 00:49:56.869
that I think, you know, everybody, everybody

00:49:56.869 --> 00:49:59.090
should dip into a little bit, whether it's just

00:49:59.090 --> 00:50:02.510
you create a new recipe, say you're not musical

00:50:02.510 --> 00:50:04.969
at all, but you create a new recipe. Or let's

00:50:04.969 --> 00:50:08.050
say that you like to garden, I'm not a gardener,

00:50:08.050 --> 00:50:10.309
but you like to garden and then you create a

00:50:10.309 --> 00:50:13.289
beautiful arrangement in your yard. You know,

00:50:13.329 --> 00:50:17.590
I think creativity is open to everybody. And

00:50:17.590 --> 00:50:21.590
I think we're all better off for being creative

00:50:21.590 --> 00:50:26.789
in some way. especially after brutal 18 years

00:50:26.789 --> 00:50:29.710
of really difficult training, classical training

00:50:29.710 --> 00:50:34.230
we have, you know? Yes, and the thing is like,

00:50:34.289 --> 00:50:37.849
you know, as a teacher, I try not to, I mean,

00:50:38.590 --> 00:50:42.170
I will guide you, obviously. But I mean, I try

00:50:42.170 --> 00:50:45.429
not to focus on well, there's a right way to

00:50:45.429 --> 00:50:47.190
play something. I mean, there are parameters

00:50:47.190 --> 00:50:50.469
that are established by the time period that

00:50:50.469 --> 00:50:53.360
something comes from. so I'm not going to say

00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:55.820
no play that Bach like Rachmaninoff it's all

00:50:55.820 --> 00:50:59.280
good you know but um but on the other hand I

00:50:59.280 --> 00:51:02.039
think that you know I may very strongly feel

00:51:02.039 --> 00:51:04.360
that okay this is the way that I want something

00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:06.960
to sound because I'm very connected to this piece

00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:09.639
and I have a very definite idea of how I play

00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:13.880
it but I and I'll always preface that if I you

00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:15.619
know teach a piece like that it's like okay I

00:51:15.619 --> 00:51:18.219
have very strong opinions about this piece but

00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:21.780
um you know so this is how i do it but i would

00:51:21.780 --> 00:51:25.119
like you to you know explore it yourself and

00:51:25.119 --> 00:51:27.199
in fact those are the pieces that i would demonstrate

00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:31.159
less uh than other things that i might you know

00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:33.380
be trying to show okay phrasing or something

00:51:33.380 --> 00:51:36.599
like that because i i want to leave some freedom.

00:51:37.059 --> 00:51:39.840
So but you know, it's true. I mean, and I wasn't

00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:42.159
somebody who did a lot of competition. But I

00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:44.659
think that that is also where you you know, people

00:51:44.659 --> 00:51:46.440
and maybe it's less that way. I'm not really

00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:51.320
up on on what the parameters are as far as having

00:51:51.320 --> 00:51:53.619
a certain way that you play something and that's

00:51:53.619 --> 00:51:56.639
the way that it's supposed to go. And at least

00:51:56.639 --> 00:51:58.639
that's what Mr. Shonder told me back in the day

00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:01.440
he said, you know, to do well in competitions,

00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:06.780
you have to have first of all, like a height

00:52:06.780 --> 00:52:11.619
of just steel in the sense of how much you feel

00:52:11.619 --> 00:52:16.039
someone else's assessment of you affects your

00:52:16.039 --> 00:52:20.300
own self worth. Because, you know, as he's saying,

00:52:20.380 --> 00:52:23.039
I mean, you can have people on the jury, and

00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:25.699
this makes sense. These people on the jury think

00:52:25.699 --> 00:52:29.170
this. a whole set of different people think that.

00:52:29.630 --> 00:52:32.630
And if you do something too creatively, then

00:52:32.630 --> 00:52:37.150
it's probably not going to win. And he said,

00:52:38.250 --> 00:52:40.630
you know, I'm paraphrasing, it's a similar example

00:52:40.630 --> 00:52:42.909
that, you know, he's been on a journey where

00:52:42.909 --> 00:52:47.019
somebody reminded that. them of their some jurors,

00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:48.860
ex wife or something, you know, something along

00:52:48.860 --> 00:52:52.179
those lines, that they have some reason why they're,

00:52:52.179 --> 00:52:54.760
you know, against somebody that maybe has nothing

00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:57.519
to do with what they actually did, you know,

00:52:57.539 --> 00:53:00.099
and because they're all humans, right? They're

00:53:00.099 --> 00:53:03.840
all humans. So I don't know if the being kind

00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:08.659
of, you know, down the line with interpretation

00:53:08.659 --> 00:53:11.699
is still a thing and For him, he said also, I

00:53:11.699 --> 00:53:13.360
mean, you really have to be able to play these

00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:16.360
pieces in your sleep. And so that means that

00:53:16.360 --> 00:53:19.739
you have to just keep working on the same pieces

00:53:19.739 --> 00:53:22.260
for, you know, long enough that you play them

00:53:22.260 --> 00:53:24.079
in your sleep as opposed to learning other things

00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:25.940
that, you know, maybe would allow you to explore

00:53:25.940 --> 00:53:29.369
my repertoire. And, you know, and I was the kind

00:53:29.369 --> 00:53:31.269
of person who, like, if I got past the first

00:53:31.269 --> 00:53:33.969
round, then I would get freaked out by the expectation,

00:53:34.210 --> 00:53:36.570
my expectation of like, oh, my God, no, it's

00:53:36.570 --> 00:53:38.869
serious, as opposed to, you know, the first round

00:53:38.869 --> 00:53:41.289
is like, I'm playing these pieces, I'm just playing

00:53:41.289 --> 00:53:44.449
these pieces. And, you know, so I didn't have

00:53:44.449 --> 00:53:48.230
the mindset to do that sort of thing very well.

00:53:50.030 --> 00:53:52.570
Hello, I'm Dr. Nana Ogwo, pianist and founder

00:53:52.570 --> 00:53:55.110
of Juneteenth LP, a Harlem based collective of

00:53:55.110 --> 00:53:57.579
black classically trained musicians dedicated

00:53:57.579 --> 00:53:59.960
to celebrating the music of the African diaspora

00:53:59.960 --> 00:54:02.539
through bold genre -defying performances that

00:54:02.539 --> 00:54:05.340
redefine what classical music can be and who

00:54:05.340 --> 00:54:08.280
is for. At Juneteenth LP, we believe in access,

00:54:08.380 --> 00:54:10.420
outreach, and community building through music.

00:54:10.820 --> 00:54:13.679
Whether we're performing a rarely heard piece

00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:16.659
of music by a Black composer or reimagining soul

00:54:16.659 --> 00:54:19.519
and gospel classics or creating immersive education

00:54:19.519 --> 00:54:21.980
modules for schools, we're always expanding and

00:54:21.980 --> 00:54:24.639
growing audiences. When we play, we invite listeners

00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:27.099
into a richer, more inclusive musical world.

00:54:27.619 --> 00:54:30.500
This year marks a huge milestone for us, 10 years

00:54:30.500 --> 00:54:33.159
of our Juneteenth celebration at Joe's Pub. What

00:54:33.159 --> 00:54:34.900
started as a single night of music and liberation

00:54:34.900 --> 00:54:36.980
has blossomed into a full week of concert and

00:54:36.980 --> 00:54:39.059
events, thanks to support from the Lower Manhattan

00:54:39.059 --> 00:54:41.780
Cultural Council, the Aaron Copeland Fund, and

00:54:41.780 --> 00:54:44.519
Chamber Music America. We are thrilled to invite

00:54:44.519 --> 00:54:47.179
you to Juneteenth Festival Week 2025, a week

00:54:47.179 --> 00:54:49.480
of concerts and conversations across New York

00:54:49.480 --> 00:54:51.820
City. We kick things off with portrait of an

00:54:51.820 --> 00:54:53.840
artist event at Reservoir Studios in Midtown

00:54:53.840 --> 00:54:57.190
Manhattan. and continue on with a Noonday concert

00:54:57.190 --> 00:54:59.369
at Interchurch Center, followed by date night

00:54:59.369 --> 00:55:01.789
performances at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

00:55:01.929 --> 00:55:05.429
Finally, on Juneteenth at 6 .30 p .m., June 19th,

00:55:05.429 --> 00:55:08.449
join us for our 10th annual Juneteenth Celebration

00:55:08.449 --> 00:55:11.130
Concert at Joe's Pub. It's our signature event

00:55:11.130 --> 00:55:13.750
where genre -defying performances, powerful storytelling,

00:55:13.829 --> 00:55:16.469
and a spirit of joy come together in one unforgettable

00:55:16.469 --> 00:55:19.429
night. We're also so excited to be sponsoring

00:55:19.429 --> 00:55:21.630
the June episodes of Yikimi Song's The Piano

00:55:21.630 --> 00:55:25.150
Podcast, wrapping up season five. Pianists Dr.

00:55:25.269 --> 00:55:27.610
Leah Claiborne and Dr. Maria Thompson -Corley

00:55:27.610 --> 00:55:30.650
are incredible artists and educators with truly

00:55:30.650 --> 00:55:33.130
fascinating lives, and these interviews promise

00:55:33.130 --> 00:55:36.190
to be absolutely captivating. At Juneteenth LP,

00:55:36.849 --> 00:55:39.150
we center representation, cultural connection,

00:55:39.429 --> 00:55:41.989
and musical excellence. Whether through performances,

00:55:42.449 --> 00:55:44.789
education, archival work, our goal is simple,

00:55:45.090 --> 00:55:47.889
to make classical music more inclusive and more

00:55:47.889 --> 00:55:50.610
expansive. We're reimagining what classical music

00:55:50.610 --> 00:55:53.170
can be by honoring its past, transforming its

00:55:53.170 --> 00:55:55.690
present, and opening doors for the future. Please

00:55:55.690 --> 00:55:58.409
join us on the 19th at Joe's Pub for a wonderful,

00:55:58.409 --> 00:56:09.409
wonderful concert. We know you'll enjoy it. Let's

00:56:09.409 --> 00:56:13.429
talk about your composition, your recordings.

00:56:13.650 --> 00:56:16.530
And I really, when I first heard your original,

00:56:16.730 --> 00:56:20.429
was that 2020? workshop where you play the lucid

00:56:20.429 --> 00:56:26.309
dreaming oh yeah beautiful piece and then i also

00:56:26.309 --> 00:56:29.849
i know that in the uh album called soulscapes

00:56:29.849 --> 00:56:34.170
2 yes you're not only the lucid dreaming but

00:56:34.170 --> 00:56:38.670
also willful ignorance yes i like the title and

00:56:38.670 --> 00:56:44.070
i almost kind of know what it means but so can

00:56:44.070 --> 00:56:48.780
you introduce us to your those two original piano

00:56:48.780 --> 00:56:51.340
solo pieces. Yeah. Well, I'll say blissful ignorance

00:56:51.340 --> 00:56:53.920
went along with willful ignorance, too. And the

00:56:53.920 --> 00:56:56.000
blissful ignorance is a very short piece about,

00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:57.639
you know, literally blissful ignorance. Like

00:56:57.639 --> 00:56:58.900
you're just going along and pretending things

00:56:58.900 --> 00:57:03.980
aren't happening. And I mean, to me, the willful

00:57:03.980 --> 00:57:10.179
ignorance was more it was related to kind of

00:57:10.179 --> 00:57:14.460
anti woke things in the sense of, you know, I

00:57:14.460 --> 00:57:22.030
incorporate Go Down Moses in it. And so it's

00:57:22.030 --> 00:57:26.590
just sort of to me the bluster around, you know,

00:57:26.829 --> 00:57:30.210
everything is okay. And people are complaining

00:57:30.210 --> 00:57:33.829
about something that doesn't exist. And so Go

00:57:33.829 --> 00:57:36.889
Down Moses keeps trying to break through and

00:57:36.889 --> 00:57:39.769
then gets a little bit longer moment towards

00:57:39.769 --> 00:57:42.429
the end and then it's just shouted down again

00:57:42.429 --> 00:57:45.690
by this, you know, like really bombastic ending.

00:57:46.159 --> 00:57:51.739
So, again, that piece was informed by, I can't

00:57:51.739 --> 00:57:53.679
remember if it was exactly George Floyd, but

00:57:53.679 --> 00:57:57.880
there were a raft, a raft of those incidents

00:57:57.880 --> 00:58:03.300
around that time. So that's what that piece was

00:58:03.300 --> 00:58:10.070
about. I want to actually perform this. Oh, sure.

00:58:10.769 --> 00:58:13.829
Feel free. Yes, I think it can get the score

00:58:13.829 --> 00:58:18.690
from. What's the website? Cheap Music Plot. That's

00:58:18.690 --> 00:58:21.650
right. Yeah, I saw it. Yes, I would love to purchase

00:58:21.650 --> 00:58:25.730
and perform both of them. But I really like the

00:58:25.730 --> 00:58:28.190
title Wolfo Ignorance. I think really resonates

00:58:28.190 --> 00:58:32.269
with me as I am also grew up in. place where

00:58:32.269 --> 00:58:36.510
I was in the minority community and, you know,

00:58:36.690 --> 00:58:39.469
the voices are silenced, especially in my grandparents'

00:58:39.570 --> 00:58:42.289
generation, you know, being silenced is part

00:58:42.289 --> 00:58:48.099
of those, you know, a form of... Abuse, in many

00:58:48.099 --> 00:58:51.880
ways. Oh sure, absolutely. So you really can

00:58:51.880 --> 00:58:54.920
see that and that affects generations to come

00:58:54.920 --> 00:58:58.480
and I witnessed, I experienced myself too. So

00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:01.239
the goalful ignorance, the title just really

00:59:01.239 --> 00:59:30.559
spoke to me. In the album also, you play Mother's

00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:34.599
Love by Emma Hoy? Yes. Gebru, is that how you

00:59:34.599 --> 00:59:38.539
pronounce? She was an Ethiopian musician. Right.

00:59:39.420 --> 00:59:42.340
Yeah, she died very recently, relatively considering

00:59:42.340 --> 00:59:44.900
she was 100 or I think, I don't know if she made

00:59:44.900 --> 00:59:47.980
it 200, but she was almost there. Yeah, and such

00:59:47.980 --> 00:59:51.739
an interesting story that I had trouble actually

00:59:51.739 --> 00:59:56.940
finding music by African women. And I was told

00:59:56.940 --> 01:00:00.500
Rebecca Omordia, she runs the African Concert

01:00:00.500 --> 01:00:04.829
Series London. So the time that I asked her anyway,

01:00:05.010 --> 01:00:08.530
it weren't a lot of them who were breaking through.

01:00:09.050 --> 01:00:12.030
So a little patriarchal thing, I guess. But,

01:00:12.070 --> 01:00:17.610
or at least in piano. But she started off wanting

01:00:17.610 --> 01:00:20.670
to be a concert pianist and she studied violin

01:00:20.670 --> 01:00:24.289
and then her family was quite well to do and

01:00:24.289 --> 01:00:28.119
then When Mussolini came in, then, you know,

01:00:28.340 --> 01:00:30.420
they were some of the people that were targeted.

01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:37.260
And anyway, she got in, I think she got in to

01:00:37.260 --> 01:00:40.360
the Royal Conservatory and then she didn't go.

01:00:40.579 --> 01:00:44.000
And so there were some different accounts. I

01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:45.679
know that she ended up becoming a nun and I'm

01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:49.360
not sure she decided to become a nun instead

01:00:49.360 --> 01:00:52.190
of... making, becoming a pianist, but she did

01:00:52.190 --> 01:00:56.530
both and had quite a following, I've discovered,

01:00:57.110 --> 01:01:00.170
and the whole society dedicated to her and she

01:01:00.170 --> 01:01:04.079
used money that she made to help children. who

01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:06.679
were disadvantaged to have music lessons, and

01:01:06.679 --> 01:01:09.119
if you buy and make your scores, that's part

01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:12.659
of what the money's for. So, yeah, she lived

01:01:12.659 --> 01:01:15.079
a long life. There was a BBC special called The

01:01:15.079 --> 01:01:17.300
Honky Tonk Nun, which is a really kind of bizarre

01:01:17.300 --> 01:01:19.119
thing, because her music sounds nothing like

01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:24.300
honky tonk. It's very idiosyncratic. And in fact,

01:01:24.420 --> 01:01:26.840
some of it has been used in... There was a movie

01:01:26.840 --> 01:01:29.699
called Passing, and one of her pieces was...

01:01:29.469 --> 01:01:32.070
sort of the theme music or the recurring piece.

01:01:32.409 --> 01:01:33.849
I can't remember the name of it, but, you know,

01:01:33.989 --> 01:01:38.130
in that and the after I recorded, I heard there

01:01:38.130 --> 01:01:40.590
was a Walmart commercial with Mother's Love in

01:01:40.590 --> 01:01:46.230
it. It wasn't me. I had to listen to it a few

01:01:46.230 --> 01:01:48.230
times. I was like, OK, I don't recall anybody

01:01:48.230 --> 01:01:50.639
getting permission or getting any. royalties

01:01:50.639 --> 01:01:52.800
for this. But apparently, it wasn't I listened

01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:54.900
to it a number of times. And it's like, No, that's

01:01:54.900 --> 01:01:57.239
not me. I guess it maybe it was her original

01:01:57.239 --> 01:02:01.860
recording of it. But um, yeah, so she Walmart,

01:02:02.820 --> 01:02:04.679
Walmart, Walmart, I was quite surprised. It's

01:02:04.679 --> 01:02:08.619
like, Oh, my goodness. Somebody alerted me to

01:02:08.619 --> 01:02:10.539
that and said, Is that you? And I was like, I

01:02:10.539 --> 01:02:12.840
hope not, because no one has gotten my permission

01:02:12.840 --> 01:02:16.590
to use up my recording. But Anyway, yeah, just

01:02:16.590 --> 01:02:20.170
a really interesting story. Really interesting

01:02:20.170 --> 01:02:25.250
journey that she had. And also, some of so there

01:02:25.250 --> 01:02:28.670
are so many wonderful pieces in there. But I

01:02:28.670 --> 01:02:36.769
care. Okay. Okay. Yes, in care. Yes. You put

01:02:36.769 --> 01:02:40.960
performed her dust and drums. Yes. Drums Calling,

01:02:41.260 --> 01:02:45.260
yes. Drums Calling, yes. Yes, sorry. Yeah, they're

01:02:45.260 --> 01:02:47.400
wonderful pieces. It's a wonderful composer.

01:03:03.820 --> 01:03:07.500
of course, we talked about your first one, Soulscapes,

01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:12.280
which are including, you know, many other black

01:03:12.280 --> 01:03:18.760
composers, Viola, Kinney, Valerie Capers. Are

01:03:18.760 --> 01:03:21.900
they all female composers? Yes, all female composers.

01:03:22.699 --> 01:03:27.059
After I, you know, recorded Lesley's, the first

01:03:27.059 --> 01:03:30.420
etudes, somebody else recorded, Thomas Otten

01:03:30.420 --> 01:03:35.300
recorded the other ones. And I sort of decided

01:03:35.300 --> 01:03:38.420
I wanted to turn my attention to Black women

01:03:38.420 --> 01:03:41.260
composers and focus a little bit more on Black

01:03:41.260 --> 01:03:45.480
women. Not exclusively, but certainly for those

01:03:45.480 --> 01:03:49.219
last two recordings, I feel like the first one

01:03:49.219 --> 01:03:54.489
was focused on the United States. and with the

01:03:54.489 --> 01:03:57.769
Price Sonata and the capers pieces. And then

01:03:57.769 --> 01:04:00.130
I wanted to open it up and look at the diaspora.

01:04:00.289 --> 01:04:03.150
So a number of the women are based in the UK,

01:04:03.309 --> 01:04:05.989
but have West Indian roots like Elna Alberga

01:04:05.989 --> 01:04:12.510
and Erlen Wallen and Shirley Thompson. No relation,

01:04:12.670 --> 01:04:17.070
I don't think. I don't think. But yeah, I wanted

01:04:17.070 --> 01:04:19.909
to make sure that I wasn't just focused on the

01:04:19.909 --> 01:04:25.289
United States. Yeah, I also like love the piece

01:04:25.289 --> 01:04:29.730
by Dorothy Rudd Moore. Yeah, a little whimsy.

01:04:30.090 --> 01:04:34.369
Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, she had the reputation

01:04:34.369 --> 01:04:36.389
of writing pieces that were very serious. And

01:04:36.389 --> 01:04:38.909
so that was deliberately written to show that

01:04:38.909 --> 01:05:06.420
she could do something lighthearted. For listeners

01:05:06.420 --> 01:05:11.239
out there, they can purchase CDs from your website

01:05:11.239 --> 01:05:15.420
or how can they listen to your recordings? Um,

01:05:15.420 --> 01:05:19.260
actually, I think they're both like, I do have

01:05:19.260 --> 01:05:21.760
Soulscapes 2 in stock if they want to call me,

01:05:22.079 --> 01:05:23.780
get in touch with me directly from my website.

01:05:25.260 --> 01:05:29.260
That one's also available on Amazon. The first

01:05:29.260 --> 01:05:34.860
one, Soulscapes 1 is available on the website,

01:05:35.699 --> 01:05:39.280
Albany, the Albany website. I think they're now

01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:43.500
owned by Parma and Navona. I think they bought

01:05:43.500 --> 01:05:46.239
them out. So but anyway, I haven't checked to

01:05:46.239 --> 01:05:48.440
see if they've combined everything into one website.

01:05:49.039 --> 01:05:53.119
But yeah, that was from Albany. Now, do you intend

01:05:53.119 --> 01:05:57.760
to compose more piano pieces? I'm actually thinking

01:05:57.760 --> 01:05:59.480
about like just in the preliminary stages of

01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:02.559
thinking about an idea that was given to me by

01:06:02.559 --> 01:06:05.380
Andrea Clearfield, who is a wonderful composer.

01:06:06.260 --> 01:06:10.000
And she was saying, you know, she'd be him aware

01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:11.739
of Malcolm's artwork and said, have you ever

01:06:11.739 --> 01:06:13.920
thought of composing pieces based on some of

01:06:13.920 --> 01:06:17.480
this artwork? And she has this in Philadelphia.

01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:21.460
It's called salon because it was a zoom salon.

01:06:21.860 --> 01:06:25.840
And that was a live salon. And after the pandemic,

01:06:26.119 --> 01:06:28.920
it's a hybrid salon. So anybody in the world,

01:06:28.960 --> 01:06:30.960
and sometimes people from other places in the

01:06:30.960 --> 01:06:35.119
world participate in it. And so she said, you

01:06:35.119 --> 01:06:38.579
know, when you have a couple of pieces, then

01:06:38.579 --> 01:06:41.800
please bring them to the salon and with the artwork

01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:44.219
that they are inspired by. And I thought, well,

01:06:44.219 --> 01:06:46.420
that's a great idea, because it you know, exposure

01:06:46.420 --> 01:06:50.050
for my son's art and also be fun to write just

01:06:50.050 --> 01:06:54.550
some little pieces along those lines. So I'm

01:06:54.550 --> 01:06:56.389
kind of focusing on other things right now. I

01:06:56.389 --> 01:06:59.230
scribbled down a couple like little motives for

01:06:59.230 --> 01:07:01.530
a couple of things and I'll probably continue

01:07:01.530 --> 01:07:04.849
to do that. So I thought if I, I don't know how

01:07:04.849 --> 01:07:06.710
many I'm going to end up with, but if I end up

01:07:06.710 --> 01:07:09.789
with something that's like 15, even 15 minutes

01:07:09.789 --> 01:07:13.269
long, then I might try to pair them with, you

01:07:13.269 --> 01:07:15.730
know, Mussorgsky pictures, which I did way back

01:07:15.730 --> 01:07:22.039
in the day, which I I was thinking, oh, a few

01:07:22.039 --> 01:07:23.840
years ago, before she suggested this, I was like,

01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:25.440
you know, I think I want to take one more run

01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:27.800
of that before I decide I'm too old to go through

01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:30.380
that trouble. And then, you know, there's not

01:07:30.380 --> 01:07:32.500
been a reason to follow through with that. But

01:07:32.500 --> 01:07:35.860
if I do, then, you know, that would be my hour

01:07:35.860 --> 01:07:38.239
long, you know, I'm not trying to add anything

01:07:38.239 --> 01:07:40.619
more than that. But yeah, I'm hoping, hoping

01:07:40.619 --> 01:07:42.820
that I can pull that off sometime relatively

01:07:42.820 --> 01:07:45.340
near. I mean, I have an opera that I'm writing

01:07:45.340 --> 01:07:50.440
for the Cincinnati Opera about John Lewis. And

01:07:50.440 --> 01:07:53.719
that boy from Troy, right? Well, the title ended

01:07:53.719 --> 01:07:56.980
up being good trouble, the boy from Troy wanted

01:07:56.980 --> 01:08:00.219
to incorporate good trouble into it, since that's

01:08:00.219 --> 01:08:02.059
something that people really associate with him.

01:08:02.460 --> 01:08:05.820
So the piano vocal workshop is taking place in

01:08:05.820 --> 01:08:09.480
October, and then I will be back to working on

01:08:09.480 --> 01:08:16.020
that. And there's a Yeah, so if you know, between

01:08:16.020 --> 01:08:18.979
the Performances i'm doing this summer and whatever

01:08:18.979 --> 01:08:21.399
else little projects and things that are happening

01:08:21.399 --> 01:08:24.840
in my life i'm hoping I can at least get a good

01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:27.439
start on those before the end of the year and

01:08:27.439 --> 01:08:29.960
Yeah, this opera sounds amazing. I know this

01:08:29.960 --> 01:08:32.020
is not the first time you wrote opera because

01:08:32.020 --> 01:08:35.300
you wrote the sky where you are Mini opera too,

01:08:35.560 --> 01:08:38.560
but did you even imagine yourself like writing

01:08:38.560 --> 01:08:43.739
opera when you are a young? No, this is incredible.

01:08:44.439 --> 01:08:47.119
Well, um I just have a tendency to, you know,

01:08:47.260 --> 01:08:50.939
people give me a challenge and a lot of times

01:08:50.939 --> 01:08:54.699
I will just give it a try, you know? I mean,

01:08:54.859 --> 01:08:56.800
those sorts of challenges, you know, someone's,

01:08:56.800 --> 01:08:59.300
oh, it's up for you to skydive. And I'm like,

01:09:00.180 --> 01:09:03.800
maybe not. But that kind of tightrope, I'm willing

01:09:03.800 --> 01:09:06.760
to walk the tight, musical tightrope a lot of

01:09:06.760 --> 01:09:09.970
the time. But so. The Sky Where You Are came

01:09:09.970 --> 01:09:13.449
out of some art songs that, again, it was pandemic

01:09:13.449 --> 01:09:16.409
era and there was a video thing of art songs

01:09:16.409 --> 01:09:19.689
and I had performed these art songs with a young

01:09:19.689 --> 01:09:23.489
singer who was associated with whoever was putting

01:09:23.489 --> 01:09:26.930
this together. Actually an opera theater is what

01:09:26.930 --> 01:09:30.789
they're called based in Minnesota. So we recorded

01:09:30.789 --> 01:09:33.890
my three art songs and the director of an opera

01:09:33.890 --> 01:09:40.470
theater, Kelly Turpin, said, you know, I think

01:09:40.470 --> 01:09:42.430
that you could write this mini opera that they

01:09:42.430 --> 01:09:45.609
were doing for the Decameron Opera Coalition,

01:09:46.489 --> 01:09:49.710
which was put together during the pandemic, of

01:09:49.710 --> 01:09:53.069
course, Decameron being a reference to Tales

01:09:53.069 --> 01:09:58.409
Told during another pandemic long ago. And so

01:09:58.409 --> 01:10:02.270
these small to medium sized opera companies commissioned

01:10:02.270 --> 01:10:05.149
people to write, it could be no longer than 11

01:10:05.149 --> 01:10:07.560
minutes. operas. They were supposed to be on

01:10:07.560 --> 01:10:10.500
stories from the Decameron, but she got dispensation

01:10:10.500 --> 01:10:14.880
to do one about domestic abuse during the pandemic

01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:18.000
when people were, you know, sometimes locked

01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:23.180
in with their abusers. And so a new libretto

01:10:23.180 --> 01:10:25.060
by Jenny O 'Connell, who had never written a

01:10:25.060 --> 01:10:27.619
libretto before, but she consulted with a local

01:10:27.619 --> 01:10:33.529
women's shelter and in Minnesota. And then That

01:10:33.529 --> 01:10:35.689
was what resulted was like I was asked to do

01:10:35.689 --> 01:10:37.510
this because she said, I think you could do this.

01:10:37.529 --> 01:10:40.130
I think that the way that you approach art song

01:10:40.130 --> 01:10:44.390
is is like storytelling, I guess, or the musical

01:10:44.390 --> 01:10:46.550
way that I approached it. She felt like I could

01:10:46.550 --> 01:10:49.970
write an opera and it was just right for me to

01:10:49.970 --> 01:10:53.770
try it like two song, two singers, two instruments.

01:10:53.850 --> 01:10:56.970
That was all they could afford. And so it was

01:10:56.970 --> 01:10:59.970
a really great. entrance into it and, you know,

01:11:00.289 --> 01:11:02.750
a very meaningful project. And then I was asked

01:11:02.750 --> 01:11:06.350
to do when they did another De Carmen Opera Coalition

01:11:06.350 --> 01:11:09.109
the next year by a different opera company to

01:11:09.109 --> 01:11:12.050
write something for them. And for this, I expanded

01:11:12.050 --> 01:11:14.109
it like they had a little bit more time. So it

01:11:14.109 --> 01:11:18.770
was 15 minutes. It was three singers and I could

01:11:18.770 --> 01:11:21.710
get up to four instruments and I have no piano

01:11:21.710 --> 01:11:23.890
this time. I decided I was going to go completely

01:11:23.890 --> 01:11:26.350
different route, partially because of the topic,

01:11:26.369 --> 01:11:30.149
which was about generational trauma established

01:11:30.149 --> 01:11:34.369
as a place like this beach that all black people

01:11:34.369 --> 01:11:37.189
end up on the beach and they're different generations

01:11:37.189 --> 01:11:39.930
of them. And this young woman has just arrived

01:11:39.930 --> 01:11:42.270
and she doesn't know where she is. And so it's

01:11:42.270 --> 01:11:44.210
a very metaphorical thing. And they have to figure

01:11:44.210 --> 01:11:46.640
out how to get through. the situation and the

01:11:46.640 --> 01:11:49.060
answers together. But anyway, I decided that

01:11:49.060 --> 01:11:50.739
the piano wasn't something I wanted to use. I

01:11:50.739 --> 01:11:53.359
wanted to use a marimba, and I wanted to use

01:11:53.359 --> 01:11:57.779
a cello, and then I wanted to use a saxophone,

01:11:58.020 --> 01:12:00.439
like an alto saxophone, and then some percussion.

01:12:01.079 --> 01:12:05.060
So that was... starting to do more in the realm

01:12:05.060 --> 01:12:08.439
of orchestrating and with instruments that I

01:12:08.439 --> 01:12:11.239
don't know. But having started my career in this

01:12:11.239 --> 01:12:13.819
so late, I know people who play almost every

01:12:13.819 --> 01:12:16.600
instrument and I have collaborated with people

01:12:16.600 --> 01:12:19.079
who have played almost every instrument in some

01:12:19.079 --> 01:12:22.039
way. So I could reach out to people and say,

01:12:22.359 --> 01:12:25.300
hey, you get a book that tells you. this is the

01:12:25.300 --> 01:12:27.420
range and this is the things to look out for.

01:12:27.500 --> 01:12:29.800
But then you talk to the horse's mouth and they

01:12:29.800 --> 01:12:32.300
can give you more insight. And, you know, you

01:12:32.300 --> 01:12:34.260
find out more and people were willing to look

01:12:34.260 --> 01:12:36.659
at the parts and say, Yep, this would work. Or

01:12:36.659 --> 01:12:38.760
maybe you should do this here. Or I know that's

01:12:38.760 --> 01:12:41.859
not a good idea or something. So you know, that

01:12:41.859 --> 01:12:44.939
learning curve, so many opportunities that I've

01:12:44.939 --> 01:12:48.220
been given. And, yeah, it's really been like,

01:12:48.619 --> 01:12:51.619
I think divinely led, because I wasn't looking

01:12:51.619 --> 01:12:55.449
to do that at all. And then the other Yeah, and

01:12:55.449 --> 01:12:58.989
so getting to do, I don't know, I'm talking a

01:12:58.989 --> 01:13:02.710
lot. Getting to do Good Trouble was because that

01:13:02.710 --> 01:13:06.029
first opera that I wrote, someone who I knew,

01:13:06.310 --> 01:13:08.430
Diana Solomon Glover, was a singer in New York

01:13:08.430 --> 01:13:11.310
at the time that I was in New York. And I learned

01:13:11.310 --> 01:13:14.829
from a mutual friend that she had written a libretto,

01:13:15.590 --> 01:13:17.970
I think her first libretto, and the piece was

01:13:17.970 --> 01:13:20.920
going to be performed at Santa Fe. And so I just

01:13:20.920 --> 01:13:22.380
reached out to her on Facebook and said, hey,

01:13:22.579 --> 01:13:24.319
congratulations on your first libero. That's

01:13:24.319 --> 01:13:27.460
amazing. And I said, ironically, I wrote an opera,

01:13:27.619 --> 01:13:30.100
a first opera that I wasn't expecting to write.

01:13:30.359 --> 01:13:32.939
And so she was curious to hear it. And she liked

01:13:32.939 --> 01:13:36.119
it enough that she invited me to be part of this

01:13:36.119 --> 01:13:39.520
developing project. And I'll cut to the chase.

01:13:39.579 --> 01:13:42.380
So anyway, in the end, it was picked up by Cincinnati

01:13:42.380 --> 01:13:45.060
as a commission. And that's how that happened.

01:13:45.319 --> 01:13:48.920
Yeah, it's incredible. Having to have this knowledge

01:13:48.920 --> 01:13:52.520
of writing experience as a writer also helps

01:13:52.520 --> 01:13:56.760
put together a production like this, right? Yeah,

01:13:56.859 --> 01:13:59.319
I think so. Yeah, it's a full circle moment.

01:13:59.859 --> 01:14:03.439
But I understand that you're, you know, I haven't

01:14:03.439 --> 01:14:06.680
read it yet, but there are novels by your choices

01:14:06.680 --> 01:14:10.380
letting go more than enough. Yeah. I mean, choices

01:14:10.380 --> 01:14:13.859
I wrote for fun when I was in grad school and

01:14:15.150 --> 01:14:19.989
Honestly, it was sort of an act of, I felt like

01:14:19.989 --> 01:14:21.510
I was reading stuff and I thought, oh, I could

01:14:21.510 --> 01:14:23.069
write that well. You know, I wasn't thinking

01:14:23.069 --> 01:14:25.729
myself a great author, but I was thinking I could

01:14:25.729 --> 01:14:27.170
write something as good as this, whatever it

01:14:27.170 --> 01:14:29.109
was I was reading. And, you know, it was fun

01:14:29.109 --> 01:14:34.729
for me to create that story. And I sent it to,

01:14:34.909 --> 01:14:36.649
because at the time you had to send through the

01:14:36.649 --> 01:14:40.250
mail, Valentine and maybe a couple other places.

01:14:40.270 --> 01:14:42.250
And this lady wrote me back and said, you know,

01:14:42.250 --> 01:14:45.050
I don't have any room in my list, but I think

01:14:45.050 --> 01:14:48.050
that, you know, Essence magazine was starting

01:14:48.050 --> 01:14:52.229
up a series of books for black women, you know,

01:14:52.470 --> 01:14:54.930
romance novels. And it wasn't really a romance

01:14:54.930 --> 01:14:58.949
novel, but it was, you know, there were relationships

01:14:58.949 --> 01:15:01.270
that were sort of the core of the core conflict

01:15:01.270 --> 01:15:06.310
was about relationships. So again, it kind of

01:15:06.310 --> 01:15:09.250
fell into. my lap that I got this recommendation,

01:15:09.350 --> 01:15:10.890
they were just starting it, I sent it out, they

01:15:10.890 --> 01:15:13.449
accepted it. And so that was published. And then

01:15:13.449 --> 01:15:16.409
after that, the next thing I wrote was actually

01:15:16.409 --> 01:15:18.729
more than enough. But they, they said, Okay,

01:15:18.750 --> 01:15:20.289
well, you're gonna have to get rid of the too

01:15:20.289 --> 01:15:22.829
many relationships going on here. And there was

01:15:22.829 --> 01:15:24.750
a gay character who was a central character.

01:15:24.770 --> 01:15:26.489
And they said, Well, you know, I don't think

01:15:26.489 --> 01:15:29.649
you can have that this is in the 90s. So I said,

01:15:29.649 --> 01:15:31.680
Well, I'm not really willing to like get rid

01:15:31.680 --> 01:15:33.939
of these people. And I'm not willing to do that.

01:15:33.939 --> 01:15:36.520
And I wasn't setting out to be a famous author

01:15:36.520 --> 01:15:39.579
anyway. So that was fun. I'm going to just go

01:15:39.579 --> 01:15:43.659
back to being a pianist now. And I don't know

01:15:43.659 --> 01:15:46.340
when it was that my mom suggested that something

01:15:46.340 --> 01:15:48.760
about, you know, writing something more about

01:15:48.760 --> 01:15:51.840
my own experiences, my own life, and letting

01:15:51.840 --> 01:15:55.619
go is not strictly autobiographical at all. Because

01:15:55.619 --> 01:15:56.979
half of it is written from the point of view

01:15:56.979 --> 01:16:02.729
of a man. So I, you know, but There are outlines

01:16:02.729 --> 01:16:05.829
of things like it does have some Juilliard like

01:16:05.829 --> 01:16:08.729
the protagonist is a Juilliard trained pianist

01:16:08.729 --> 01:16:10.970
and she's at Juilliard and I was extremely shy

01:16:10.970 --> 01:16:13.270
when I was first at Juilliard and some of those

01:16:13.270 --> 01:16:17.409
things are actual stories and some of it is really

01:16:17.409 --> 01:16:21.470
not and so you know when they're aspects of my

01:16:21.470 --> 01:16:24.810
marriage again some of it's true some of it's

01:16:24.810 --> 01:16:29.010
not and so I would never say exactly what was

01:16:29.260 --> 01:16:33.819
true what was not. Well, some things I would

01:16:33.819 --> 01:16:37.920
say, but not all of them. So anyway, that's where

01:16:37.920 --> 01:16:43.460
that came from. And then the other one, there

01:16:43.460 --> 01:16:45.800
was a Kindle thing where they were just having

01:16:45.800 --> 01:16:47.579
people you could publish whatever. And so I said,

01:16:47.619 --> 01:16:50.119
Well, I really like the story of more than enough.

01:16:50.159 --> 01:16:52.159
And so, you know, it's a period piece because

01:16:52.159 --> 01:16:55.520
it was very much written in the time of the 90s.

01:16:55.520 --> 01:16:59.220
And so I just put that you know, as a kindle

01:16:59.220 --> 01:17:01.100
thing. Now they have taken that down. Now they

01:17:01.100 --> 01:17:04.500
don't have you could buy episodes. And so I divided

01:17:04.500 --> 01:17:06.479
it. So it's not really available anywhere anymore.

01:17:07.159 --> 01:17:10.359
But someday I may upload it. You know, you can

01:17:10.359 --> 01:17:15.260
do that. So I may. The great thing about, you

01:17:15.260 --> 01:17:21.039
know, these days as a creator, there are multiple

01:17:21.039 --> 01:17:26.449
ways to. Really put your materials out there

01:17:26.449 --> 01:17:29.229
like whether that is a video format Oh, I know

01:17:29.229 --> 01:17:33.090
you were also one time a podcaster too for a

01:17:33.090 --> 01:17:36.689
while Yes, I did. Yeah, you also have a extensive

01:17:36.689 --> 01:17:40.409
blog. I read a couple of them Yeah, yeah, there's

01:17:40.409 --> 01:17:43.489
a lot. It's a lot Finding Beauty. Yeah, that

01:17:43.489 --> 01:17:48.550
was my that was my podcast but I mean I suppose

01:17:48.550 --> 01:17:51.899
the thing about it is if you have the attitude

01:17:51.899 --> 01:17:54.939
which I kind of skew towards of you putting it

01:17:54.939 --> 01:17:56.680
out there and someone may find it they may not

01:17:56.680 --> 01:17:59.319
find it and Then you know, I'll do it limited

01:17:59.319 --> 01:18:01.739
like I may post on Facebook or whatever and do

01:18:01.739 --> 01:18:06.720
a little bit of promotion and then you know gets

01:18:06.720 --> 01:18:10.720
limited audience and then other things so like

01:18:10.720 --> 01:18:13.710
if you put out a book, it's like either you're

01:18:13.710 --> 01:18:16.270
saying again if someone finds that they may find

01:18:16.270 --> 01:18:19.470
it if not they won't but really to get any sort

01:18:19.470 --> 01:18:21.750
of traction with a book you need to really make

01:18:21.750 --> 01:18:26.310
an effort with letting go i i um sent it to various

01:18:26.310 --> 01:18:29.590
uh book reviewers and you could send it you know

01:18:29.590 --> 01:18:31.750
and they wouldn't ask you for money to review

01:18:31.750 --> 01:18:34.840
it they just wanted to get free books And so

01:18:34.840 --> 01:18:37.760
I got a number of reviews, you know, from people

01:18:37.760 --> 01:18:40.140
I knew, but most of them were from me doing a

01:18:40.140 --> 01:18:42.100
lot of work and identifying people and sending

01:18:42.100 --> 01:18:43.760
them out. And sometimes they wanted hard copies,

01:18:43.800 --> 01:18:47.100
which means I had to buy hard copies. So, I mean,

01:18:47.539 --> 01:18:50.079
that's the thing. You know, if you want, you

01:18:50.079 --> 01:18:52.579
can put it out there, but no one will see it

01:18:52.579 --> 01:18:55.119
unless you do some other work to make sure people

01:18:55.119 --> 01:18:59.979
know about it. So it takes energy. It does in

01:18:59.979 --> 01:19:05.289
time. Yeah, sure. Yeah. But. It's fun being creative.

01:19:05.550 --> 01:19:08.930
Yeah, that's true. That's true. And once you

01:19:08.930 --> 01:19:11.850
started just for some people, it's just unstoppable,

01:19:11.909 --> 01:19:16.050
right? Yeah, creative energy just yes comes up

01:19:16.050 --> 01:19:19.710
and yeah, in my case, I've had to like narrow

01:19:19.710 --> 01:19:22.470
things down a bit. Like I can't try to do all

01:19:22.470 --> 01:19:24.130
these things at once. I mean, there's a novel

01:19:24.130 --> 01:19:28.149
that I started. I think it was 2019 that I would

01:19:28.149 --> 01:19:33.399
still love to finish. But I haven't had You know,

01:19:33.399 --> 01:19:38.340
I haven't had time, so I may find a way to circle

01:19:38.340 --> 01:19:40.560
back. It's not something that needs to be current.

01:19:41.220 --> 01:19:46.260
So, you know, who knows? It's very inspirational

01:19:46.260 --> 01:19:51.899
hearing from you in person this way about creativity.

01:19:52.300 --> 01:19:56.199
Yeah, it's encouraging to then that creative

01:19:56.199 --> 01:20:00.100
DNA is really handed to your daughter and your

01:20:00.100 --> 01:20:04.729
son and. Know we briefly talked about your family

01:20:04.729 --> 01:20:08.130
So I kind of want to focus on your son and can

01:20:08.130 --> 01:20:10.350
you tell tell us a little bit about your son?

01:20:10.670 --> 01:20:16.170
He is I've enjoyed looking at his Paintings and

01:20:16.170 --> 01:20:19.850
a drawing too. I like the pencil drawing of closet.

01:20:20.229 --> 01:20:23.989
Oh, yes It's so incredible. And they also I love

01:20:23.989 --> 01:20:27.569
his self -portrait. Oh, yes. Yeah, there's a

01:20:27.569 --> 01:20:30.569
number of self -portraits. He likes to Yeah,

01:20:30.630 --> 01:20:33.500
he's he's I don't know if he's his favorite subject,

01:20:33.560 --> 01:20:35.779
but he's one of his favorite subjects, I would

01:20:35.779 --> 01:20:40.439
say. Yeah, I mean, Malcolm was diagnosed with

01:20:40.439 --> 01:20:43.100
autism when he was about three and he had the

01:20:43.100 --> 01:20:45.199
language delays and he still doesn't have a lot

01:20:45.199 --> 01:20:49.880
of expressive language despite a lot of different

01:20:49.880 --> 01:20:55.520
interventions and lots of speech therapy. So

01:20:55.520 --> 01:21:00.180
he understands what you're talking about. um

01:21:00.180 --> 01:21:06.539
and um he you know he's the essence of him is

01:21:06.539 --> 01:21:10.380
just like he's very friendly and loving and i

01:21:10.380 --> 01:21:12.439
mean obviously no one's always in a good mood

01:21:12.439 --> 01:21:18.220
but you know um but the art thing. It's a whole

01:21:18.220 --> 01:21:20.439
other business. It's another one of those things.

01:21:20.920 --> 01:21:25.560
So he's had a number of exhibitions. He was selected

01:21:25.560 --> 01:21:28.880
one of 15 people from across the country actually

01:21:28.880 --> 01:21:32.140
in 2019. They had to be between 19 and 25 and

01:21:32.140 --> 01:21:35.840
he was just 19. He was the youngest one for a

01:21:35.840 --> 01:21:38.539
Kennedy Center program. They have a number of

01:21:38.539 --> 01:21:41.159
things that are for people with disabilities

01:21:41.159 --> 01:21:44.600
and the disabilities ranged from you know PTSD

01:21:44.600 --> 01:21:51.250
to sight, you know, like having vision impairment

01:21:51.250 --> 01:21:54.630
and just different things. And there were two

01:21:54.630 --> 01:21:56.930
people on the autism spectrum in that class of

01:21:56.930 --> 01:22:01.449
15. And they were supposed to have a nationwide

01:22:01.720 --> 01:22:05.100
tour of the art, but then the pandemic happened.

01:22:05.739 --> 01:22:08.779
So they had the art was just displayed at the

01:22:08.779 --> 01:22:11.520
Kennedy Center and it was displayed. I arranged

01:22:11.520 --> 01:22:14.859
for one here in Lancaster and there were a few

01:22:14.859 --> 01:22:18.140
other stops, but they had to be cancelled. But,

01:22:18.140 --> 01:22:20.039
you know, he's had things that were published

01:22:20.039 --> 01:22:24.340
in like the Penn University Review or something.

01:22:24.840 --> 01:22:30.539
I submitted things internationally at there was

01:22:30.859 --> 01:22:34.079
a gallery in Toronto that had a show that, again,

01:22:34.119 --> 01:22:36.039
was delayed by the pandemic, but two of his pieces

01:22:36.039 --> 01:22:40.340
were exhibited there. But, you know, trying to

01:22:40.340 --> 01:22:43.340
maintain some momentum with that, again, it's

01:22:43.340 --> 01:22:46.859
a job. And so I'm the person who does it. My

01:22:46.859 --> 01:22:49.619
sister is the one who designed his website, and

01:22:49.619 --> 01:22:54.380
she's kind of the webmaster in the family. And

01:22:54.380 --> 01:22:59.420
so, you know, I mean, I guess... The blessing

01:22:59.420 --> 01:23:03.119
with Malcolm is he doesn't have, you know, he's

01:23:03.119 --> 01:23:06.140
not like discouraged. He doesn't feel like, oh,

01:23:06.180 --> 01:23:08.479
no one's buying my art or someone is buying my

01:23:08.479 --> 01:23:10.600
art. I mean, he likes to think that people like

01:23:10.600 --> 01:23:12.720
his art. He loves it when someone says, oh, I

01:23:12.720 --> 01:23:14.399
love, you know, you're a great artist or anything

01:23:14.399 --> 01:23:19.960
like that. He really enjoys that. But he's not

01:23:19.960 --> 01:23:24.159
invested in like, how is my career going kind

01:23:24.159 --> 01:23:27.920
of a thing? You know, it's very And it's not

01:23:27.920 --> 01:23:30.380
that he doesn't like to get paid for it, he does,

01:23:31.079 --> 01:23:36.760
but he's just as happy to go somewhere and get

01:23:36.760 --> 01:23:39.920
ice cream, you know what I mean? And just enjoy

01:23:39.920 --> 01:23:44.279
activities and whether or not people are investing

01:23:44.279 --> 01:23:48.300
in his art, he's not as focused on. And there

01:23:48.300 --> 01:23:52.020
are some things about his autism that I think

01:23:52.020 --> 01:23:58.500
are really kind of a gift. um i mean he himself

01:23:58.500 --> 01:24:03.140
um anybody who has met him um you know he really

01:24:03.140 --> 01:24:06.340
is a gift he's just has a beautiful soul like

01:24:06.340 --> 01:24:10.899
and um even when he was in school you know um

01:24:10.899 --> 01:24:14.020
one of my daughter's friends had has a sister

01:24:14.020 --> 01:24:17.340
who was in his grade and so she asked you know

01:24:17.340 --> 01:24:19.640
does malcolm ever get bullied because he wouldn't

01:24:19.640 --> 01:24:23.529
necessarily have the words to tell me And I guess

01:24:23.529 --> 01:24:26.010
the sister just looked to her like, Are you crazy?

01:24:26.130 --> 01:24:27.789
Like, who would bully Malcolm? That's crazy,

01:24:27.909 --> 01:24:31.329
kind of a thing. But I know that for kids on

01:24:31.329 --> 01:24:33.770
the spectrum, that's not necessarily a crazy

01:24:33.770 --> 01:24:37.770
thought, you know, but he, I mean, even in both

01:24:37.770 --> 01:24:40.649
high school and in middle school, some big kid

01:24:40.649 --> 01:24:43.109
just kind of took him under his wing. I mean,

01:24:43.289 --> 01:24:45.649
Malcolm is very tall, but he's very slight, like

01:24:45.649 --> 01:24:48.720
he's very thin. And I remember he wanted to go

01:24:48.720 --> 01:24:50.760
to all the school dances. He loves to dance.

01:24:51.300 --> 01:24:53.000
So, you know, I would take him to the school

01:24:53.000 --> 01:24:54.899
dance. And I remember dropping him off. Someone

01:24:54.899 --> 01:24:56.659
had told me that this guy who was on the football

01:24:56.659 --> 01:24:59.180
team had really taken a liking to Malcolm. And,

01:24:59.460 --> 01:25:02.479
you know, just as like, you know, like, hey,

01:25:02.600 --> 01:25:04.420
buddy, you know, I saw him like, hey, Malcolm,

01:25:04.460 --> 01:25:07.300
how you doing? And good to see you and all this

01:25:07.300 --> 01:25:10.039
sort of stuff. And, you know, he just he just

01:25:10.039 --> 01:25:13.159
attracts goodwill. And, you know, that's just.

01:25:13.340 --> 01:25:15.739
an incredible blessing. Even like the other day,

01:25:15.739 --> 01:25:17.500
we were in the grocery store and some guy was

01:25:17.500 --> 01:25:20.020
like, Hey, did you go to Hemfield High School?

01:25:20.159 --> 01:25:22.760
You know? Yeah, I think I mean, he didn't, I

01:25:22.760 --> 01:25:25.000
guess he didn't really interact. But it's just,

01:25:25.279 --> 01:25:28.180
you know, he has Yeah, there's something about

01:25:28.180 --> 01:25:32.300
him. So it's really wonderful. What a gift. And

01:25:32.300 --> 01:25:35.960
really, it shows in his painting and portraits

01:25:35.960 --> 01:25:42.659
too. I really like looking at them. Yeah, it's

01:25:42.659 --> 01:25:47.000
healing. So then, then you co -founded the Silence

01:25:47.000 --> 01:25:53.020
Optional Concert Series with Sarah. Sarah and

01:25:53.020 --> 01:25:59.340
I started performing together as duo chiaroscuro

01:25:59.340 --> 01:26:04.859
when in 2011. And so the the name is a bit of

01:26:04.859 --> 01:26:07.600
a joke. And it's also kind of our approach to

01:26:08.399 --> 01:26:12.420
expression in that Sarah, her her mom is has

01:26:12.420 --> 01:26:17.420
Icelandic roots and Sarah is very blonde and

01:26:17.420 --> 01:26:20.640
I'm not. So I thought Kioskira was an interesting

01:26:20.640 --> 01:26:24.439
name for us. But somewhere along the way, you

01:26:24.439 --> 01:26:26.319
know, I can't always take Malcolm to concerts

01:26:26.319 --> 01:26:29.359
in that he may or may not be quiet in the way

01:26:29.359 --> 01:26:33.140
that people expect him to be quiet. And so there

01:26:33.140 --> 01:26:35.939
was a quartet in Canada, actually, that had started

01:26:35.939 --> 01:26:39.659
these series of concerts. with that aim, and

01:26:39.659 --> 01:26:43.100
my brain is not functioning today. Anyway, I

01:26:43.100 --> 01:26:45.359
can't think of their name, but it's a string

01:26:45.359 --> 01:26:48.600
quartet, and so they would have, allow people

01:26:48.600 --> 01:26:50.699
to be in the audience who may be, you know, we're

01:26:50.699 --> 01:26:53.840
on the autism spectrum or whatever, and so we

01:26:53.840 --> 01:26:57.390
gave a number of concerts with that. that you

01:26:57.390 --> 01:27:00.670
know if even I mean little kids could come as

01:27:00.670 --> 01:27:03.569
well and you know they were short like 30 -35

01:27:03.569 --> 01:27:06.510
minutes they had a theme. The first ones that

01:27:06.510 --> 01:27:10.729
we did also had artwork for each piece that was

01:27:10.729 --> 01:27:14.250
created by Sarah's daughter and you know like

01:27:14.250 --> 01:27:19.390
whether she put together um some videos um or

01:27:19.390 --> 01:27:21.909
you know she didn't create original artwork but

01:27:21.909 --> 01:27:23.989
it would you know things would be images would

01:27:23.989 --> 01:27:29.069
be projected and um yeah they were um they were

01:27:29.069 --> 01:27:31.970
fun i mean we haven't been doing them lately

01:27:31.970 --> 01:27:35.609
she um isn't like completely out of the picture

01:27:35.609 --> 01:27:39.109
as far as being uh you know it's like an hour

01:27:39.109 --> 01:27:42.529
or an hour and a half away but um just over the

01:27:42.529 --> 01:27:44.170
course of time we haven't been performing as

01:27:44.170 --> 01:27:50.100
much together But we, you know, as far as being

01:27:50.100 --> 01:27:52.039
asked to do those sorts of things, it's still

01:27:52.039 --> 01:27:54.100
on the table if people are interested in those

01:27:54.100 --> 01:27:56.899
programs, because they're very gratifying. And,

01:27:56.960 --> 01:27:59.300
you know, let Malcolm come to my concert and,

01:27:59.300 --> 01:28:02.979
you know, have enjoy because he really does enjoy

01:28:02.979 --> 01:28:09.619
all kinds of music and classical music. Wow,

01:28:09.739 --> 01:28:14.420
wonderful. Yeah. Now we're coming toward the

01:28:14.420 --> 01:28:16.500
end of our conversation. Is there anything else?

01:28:16.579 --> 01:28:20.380
I have like two major questions to ask before

01:28:20.380 --> 01:28:27.260
we go but Is there anything else? I don't think

01:28:27.260 --> 01:28:30.220
so. I mean, we've covered a lot of ground. I

01:28:30.220 --> 01:28:36.239
don't think so Well, I mean Well, let me see

01:28:36.239 --> 01:28:38.619
what your questions are. Let me see your question.

01:28:38.680 --> 01:28:42.189
Oh one is the legacy what? kind of legacy you

01:28:42.189 --> 01:28:45.069
hope to leave. I mean, you're still very young,

01:28:45.630 --> 01:28:48.609
but you know, no, and then the second one would

01:28:48.609 --> 01:28:52.750
be what does true inclusion look like? Okay,

01:28:52.810 --> 01:29:02.069
you know, so, yeah. So legacy is something that

01:29:02.069 --> 01:29:05.310
I can't really worry too much about. I mean,

01:29:05.310 --> 01:29:08.510
I'm just trying to do what I feel I need to do

01:29:08.510 --> 01:29:11.939
in the moment. I mean, when you have written

01:29:11.939 --> 01:29:17.300
things like compositions, you know, there's a

01:29:17.300 --> 01:29:19.460
potential that people will continue to perform

01:29:19.460 --> 01:29:22.140
them if you write a book or, you know, anything

01:29:22.140 --> 01:29:25.500
that I've put out there. Having done that means

01:29:25.500 --> 01:29:27.479
that there will be people and there are people

01:29:27.479 --> 01:29:29.819
who I've never met who've discovered these things.

01:29:30.399 --> 01:29:32.239
And that's always a gratifying feeling to know

01:29:32.239 --> 01:29:34.460
that people appreciate what you were doing and

01:29:34.460 --> 01:29:39.460
what you've done. I can't be sure of what legacy

01:29:39.460 --> 01:29:41.439
will be because, you know, that's something that

01:29:41.439 --> 01:29:44.079
will be determined way in the future. And sometimes

01:29:44.079 --> 01:29:48.539
people forget about you, even, you know, people

01:29:48.539 --> 01:29:50.500
who are considered major composers of the day,

01:29:50.500 --> 01:29:53.279
and then, you know, people forget them. I mean,

01:29:53.399 --> 01:29:55.920
until years and years later, I mean, even, you

01:29:55.920 --> 01:29:57.979
know, Mendelssohn had to resuscitate Bach, you

01:29:57.979 --> 01:30:02.359
know. So I'm not really going to worry about

01:30:02.359 --> 01:30:06.979
that. I just hope that, you know, I've used my

01:30:06.979 --> 01:30:10.340
time and continue to use my time on earth in

01:30:10.340 --> 01:30:13.300
a manner that is positive and, you know, I'm

01:30:13.300 --> 01:30:18.359
not trying to do something to undermine somebody

01:30:18.359 --> 01:30:21.220
else or, you know, just use it in a positive

01:30:21.220 --> 01:30:26.100
way and I can't really worry about the rest.

01:30:27.619 --> 01:30:31.130
And then the second question was about Sorry,

01:30:31.329 --> 01:30:35.449
inclusion. Yeah. Right. Like, is it all about

01:30:35.449 --> 01:30:40.270
just including the repertoire by, you know, composers

01:30:40.270 --> 01:30:43.470
of color? But I think to me, it's more than that.

01:30:43.609 --> 01:30:47.569
But also, let's say inclusion also can be, you

01:30:47.569 --> 01:30:52.029
know, on someone on a spectrum. Right. Yeah,

01:30:52.029 --> 01:30:54.590
I mean, and that's another marginalized group

01:30:54.590 --> 01:30:58.449
is people with disabilities. Now, obviously,

01:30:59.050 --> 01:31:03.569
some things, I mean, Well, okay, my, my thought

01:31:03.569 --> 01:31:08.029
about true inclusion is that, first of all, to

01:31:08.029 --> 01:31:10.310
acknowledge that there was no good reason for

01:31:10.310 --> 01:31:12.970
us to be in this situation to even ask that question.

01:31:13.630 --> 01:31:16.470
You know, I mean, the systems that were put in

01:31:16.470 --> 01:31:21.329
place to exclude, you know, I mean, it's been

01:31:21.329 --> 01:31:25.029
so elaborate and so long lasting. And, you know,

01:31:25.029 --> 01:31:27.829
we shouldn't even have to have these conversations

01:31:27.829 --> 01:31:32.880
because the parameters that have been used to

01:31:32.880 --> 01:31:36.300
judge and to exclude should not exist and make

01:31:36.300 --> 01:31:39.199
no sense. If you look at them, they make no sense.

01:31:39.979 --> 01:31:42.920
You know, so having gotten that out of the way.

01:31:44.899 --> 01:31:48.340
I mean, it would be wonderful to have a day when

01:31:48.340 --> 01:31:53.899
there's not a conspicuous skewing in one direction

01:31:53.899 --> 01:31:59.680
about who is on the board of this and who makes

01:31:59.680 --> 01:32:03.460
the final decision about that. And in addition

01:32:03.460 --> 01:32:07.880
to, you know, the programming and seeing diversity

01:32:07.880 --> 01:32:12.279
represented in programming. And to me, like,

01:32:12.300 --> 01:32:15.239
you know, the people who push back on the idea

01:32:15.239 --> 01:32:19.619
of inclusion and equity and diversity, I would

01:32:19.619 --> 01:32:23.640
have to ask, like, what is your objection? And

01:32:23.640 --> 01:32:27.210
if the idea is that, well, inherently certain

01:32:27.210 --> 01:32:29.630
things are not as good, because that has been

01:32:29.630 --> 01:32:33.310
sort of the idea, is that, you know, just making

01:32:33.310 --> 01:32:35.510
the assumption, well, this person did it, so

01:32:35.510 --> 01:32:40.369
it can't be as good, you know. The underlying

01:32:40.369 --> 01:32:47.890
logic there is non -existent. So I guess, I mean,

01:32:47.989 --> 01:32:50.289
the true inclusion would be when we're not thinking

01:32:50.289 --> 01:32:53.350
about this anymore. you know, and it's not that

01:32:53.350 --> 01:32:55.189
we're not thinking about it anymore, because

01:32:55.189 --> 01:32:57.670
we don't want to think about it, or we're ignoring

01:32:57.670 --> 01:33:02.130
it. Yeah. Willful ignorance involved, or blissful

01:33:02.130 --> 01:33:04.569
ignorance. It's just, we don't have to think

01:33:04.569 --> 01:33:07.850
about it anymore. Because, I mean, it's just

01:33:07.850 --> 01:33:09.470
like the obvious thing that should have happened

01:33:09.470 --> 01:33:12.630
in the first place has happened. Now, will that

01:33:12.630 --> 01:33:17.090
happen? You know, I mean, we can hope. we can

01:33:17.090 --> 01:33:19.550
hope it seems that I mean, it's not natural that

01:33:19.550 --> 01:33:24.270
when you get to a certain point of kind of knowing,

01:33:24.890 --> 01:33:28.449
I think, you know, you love pie. And whenever

01:33:28.449 --> 01:33:31.810
you go to the place, the cafeteria, you always

01:33:31.810 --> 01:33:34.430
get three pieces, and then the other 10 people

01:33:34.430 --> 01:33:38.189
have to split the other five, you know, well,

01:33:38.409 --> 01:33:40.850
I mean, if you really love pie, it's not the

01:33:40.850 --> 01:33:42.869
sort of thing that you're going to give up easily

01:33:42.869 --> 01:33:46.010
to say, well, You know, well, how come I'm not

01:33:46.010 --> 01:33:49.369
getting my share of pie? There are eight pieces

01:33:49.369 --> 01:33:51.750
of pie and I always get three. It's like, well,

01:33:51.829 --> 01:33:54.210
should you be getting three? It's like, yeah,

01:33:54.210 --> 01:33:58.489
but I've always gotten three, you know, and I

01:33:58.489 --> 01:34:01.770
want I want three pieces of pie. So what are

01:34:01.770 --> 01:34:04.789
you going to do about that? You know, so I mean,

01:34:05.130 --> 01:34:08.569
that's the system. But I feel like, you know,

01:34:08.609 --> 01:34:11.689
there are enough people, hopefully, who are thinking

01:34:11.689 --> 01:34:14.729
about it and thinking, well, you know, that is

01:34:14.729 --> 01:34:18.170
kind of a lot of pie, actually, you know, and

01:34:18.170 --> 01:34:21.130
get enough of those people. And we get to the

01:34:21.130 --> 01:34:23.010
point where, like I said, we're not thinking

01:34:23.010 --> 01:34:25.930
about it anymore. And everybody's like, that's

01:34:25.930 --> 01:34:31.479
equity. And diversity is because there are a

01:34:31.479 --> 01:34:33.920
diversity of people and you say there's no one

01:34:33.920 --> 01:34:35.979
who inherently doesn't belong. So that's where

01:34:35.979 --> 01:34:39.560
the diversity comes in. When you have these disproportionate

01:34:39.560 --> 01:34:42.979
things and inclusion, of course, is part of that.

01:34:43.600 --> 01:34:48.739
And, you know, the argument, I mean, without

01:34:48.739 --> 01:34:51.680
going on and on, and I'm going to just stop with

01:34:51.680 --> 01:34:56.760
access does affect all of these things. And I

01:34:56.760 --> 01:35:00.579
don't want to pretend that that isn't also part

01:35:00.579 --> 01:35:04.020
of it. I was born in a family that could afford

01:35:04.020 --> 01:35:07.199
piano lessons and good music lessons and all

01:35:07.199 --> 01:35:11.739
kinds of things. And, you know, we can't expect

01:35:11.739 --> 01:35:14.659
everybody to give that away if you're a piano

01:35:14.659 --> 01:35:20.100
teacher. And so how important those who have

01:35:20.100 --> 01:35:23.300
the opportunity and the means to make access

01:35:23.300 --> 01:35:27.739
available. How important that becomes to those

01:35:27.739 --> 01:35:32.270
who could make up for the access that is not

01:35:32.270 --> 01:35:36.189
available because of these inequities. That's

01:35:36.189 --> 01:35:39.630
another that's a whole other thing. Oh, I mean,

01:35:39.670 --> 01:35:41.210
the Bill Gates of the world are giving their

01:35:41.210 --> 01:35:43.930
money away. You know, Warren Buffett gives some

01:35:43.930 --> 01:35:47.470
money away. Mackenzie Scott gives some money

01:35:47.470 --> 01:35:50.109
away and hopefully they realize that the arts

01:35:50.109 --> 01:35:55.609
and creativity are worthy of of the funding in

01:35:55.609 --> 01:35:58.689
addition to whatever else they're funding. So

01:35:58.989 --> 01:36:04.489
Absolutely. Well, thank you. It's this season

01:36:04.489 --> 01:36:07.909
of the piano. This is a season finale. So the

01:36:07.909 --> 01:36:11.310
theme was on authenticity and joy. And then what

01:36:11.310 --> 01:36:14.409
a wonderful way to end this season with you.

01:36:14.750 --> 01:36:17.710
And also the next season, season six, the themes

01:36:17.710 --> 01:36:20.970
are. Creativity and connection. I just announced

01:36:20.970 --> 01:36:24.569
it. So it's just a what a great way to really

01:36:24.569 --> 01:36:27.489
connect the bridge from five to six and ending

01:36:27.489 --> 01:36:30.810
on we talked a lot about creativity and also

01:36:30.810 --> 01:36:34.430
connection to community. So thank you, Maria.

01:36:34.909 --> 01:36:40.510
Yes. Yeah. So what's the best way for my audience

01:36:40.510 --> 01:36:42.750
to connect with your music and connect with you?

01:36:42.810 --> 01:36:46.010
Is that a website at Maria Thompson dot com?

01:36:46.770 --> 01:36:50.710
It's Maria Corley .com. If you go to Maria Thompson

01:36:50.710 --> 01:36:53.210
Corley .com, it also connects to that website.

01:36:53.750 --> 01:36:56.489
And then I have a lot of things posted on my

01:36:56.489 --> 01:36:58.810
YouTube channel if they're curious about my music.

01:36:59.670 --> 01:37:03.189
I can send you scores directly or you can get

01:37:03.189 --> 01:37:05.430
them from sheet music plus they take a cut. But

01:37:05.430 --> 01:37:07.149
I mean, there's convenience of you don't have

01:37:07.149 --> 01:37:09.729
to wait for me to get back in touch with you.

01:37:10.369 --> 01:37:16.600
And then I have I post some on Facebook. I have

01:37:16.600 --> 01:37:21.840
a composer page and I also have Instagram, which

01:37:21.840 --> 01:37:26.199
again, to some extent I'm not full on like some

01:37:26.199 --> 01:37:28.579
people are, but I mean, I do post sometimes on

01:37:28.579 --> 01:37:32.470
those as well. And I know we're connected on

01:37:32.470 --> 01:37:35.930
Facebook, and I saw a lot of almost like replacing

01:37:35.930 --> 01:37:39.350
your blog post on to Facebook. I feel like you

01:37:39.350 --> 01:37:43.529
have a Yeah, I used I have a medium blog that

01:37:43.529 --> 01:37:46.069
I don't really every once in a while, I'll put

01:37:46.069 --> 01:37:48.229
something on there, but very, very rarely these

01:37:48.229 --> 01:37:52.329
days. So yeah. Wonderful. Well, this has been

01:37:52.329 --> 01:37:54.529
a great, wonderful, inspirational conversation.

01:37:54.949 --> 01:37:56.989
But before I let you go, we have one more thing

01:37:56.989 --> 01:37:59.590
to do, which is the rapid fire questions. And

01:37:59.590 --> 01:38:01.050
then this is the part of the show where I get

01:38:01.050 --> 01:38:04.430
to ask fun questions to each guest. Before we

01:38:04.430 --> 01:38:08.149
do, since this is coming out before at Wigmore

01:38:08.149 --> 01:38:10.010
Hall, if you're going to be in London on the

01:38:10.010 --> 01:38:13.090
19th of July, I'm performing at Wigmore Hall

01:38:13.090 --> 01:38:15.869
in the afternoon. And it's a program of black

01:38:15.869 --> 01:38:19.239
women composers. So. This is for anybody who

01:38:19.239 --> 01:38:22.899
will be in their area. Wow. July 19th in London,

01:38:23.140 --> 01:38:26.279
Wigmore Hall. And that's a really very famous

01:38:26.279 --> 01:38:30.279
venue in London. And is that your solo concert?

01:38:30.560 --> 01:38:33.180
It's a solo concert. For the most part, I have

01:38:33.180 --> 01:38:36.220
I'm going to be joined by soprano Nadine Benjamin

01:38:36.220 --> 01:38:38.779
for just singing two of my songs and a song by

01:38:38.779 --> 01:38:41.020
Shirley Thompson, who is a British composer.

01:38:41.520 --> 01:38:44.560
So, yeah, if you're going to be there, that would

01:38:44.560 --> 01:38:47.810
be great. Wonderful. Congratulations, that's

01:38:47.810 --> 01:38:51.170
a huge deal. Yeah. Okay, rapid fire. Alright,

01:38:51.270 --> 01:38:53.550
so let's go to rapid fire questions. Are you

01:38:53.550 --> 01:38:57.310
ready? I hope so. Okay. So question number one,

01:38:57.369 --> 01:39:00.350
what's your comfort food? Oh, I love sweets.

01:39:00.550 --> 01:39:02.270
I'm a sweet tooth. I don't have a particular

01:39:02.270 --> 01:39:06.609
sweet. Some sweet. How do you like your coffee

01:39:06.609 --> 01:39:09.689
in the morning? I don't drink a lot of coffee

01:39:09.689 --> 01:39:11.350
anymore. It gives me the jitters. But I've started

01:39:11.350 --> 01:39:15.069
mushroom coffee. And I usually I'm a black coffee

01:39:15.069 --> 01:39:17.529
person. When I drink the real stuff, I like it

01:39:17.529 --> 01:39:23.649
black. Cats or dogs? Cats. Sunrise or sunset?

01:39:24.510 --> 01:39:29.390
Sunset. Summer or winter? Neither. I like late

01:39:29.390 --> 01:39:31.310
spring and early autumn, but if I had to choose,

01:39:31.489 --> 01:39:33.890
I'd choose definitely summer. What skill have

01:39:33.890 --> 01:39:36.170
you always wanted to learn but haven't had a

01:39:36.170 --> 01:39:39.310
chance to? Flamenco dancing. Oh my goodness.

01:39:40.010 --> 01:39:44.140
That's awesome. What is your word of words to

01:39:44.140 --> 01:39:52.220
live by? Carpe Diem. Cisa Day? Yes. What is the

01:39:52.220 --> 01:39:54.779
most important quality you look for in other

01:39:54.779 --> 01:39:58.899
people? Kindness. This is hard. Name three people

01:39:58.899 --> 01:40:05.060
who inspire you, living or dead. It can be a

01:40:05.060 --> 01:40:07.539
group of people too. It can be a group of people.

01:40:08.039 --> 01:40:13.010
Okay. I have to choose my ancestors because how

01:40:13.010 --> 01:40:15.890
they made it, I don't know, like just as a collective.

01:40:18.170 --> 01:40:21.050
You know, I'm inspired by my, I know this is

01:40:21.050 --> 01:40:24.770
a cliche thing to say, but my mother has, she's

01:40:24.770 --> 01:40:29.850
like such a resilient person. And yeah, just

01:40:29.850 --> 01:40:34.130
the way that she rides out. the different curves

01:40:34.130 --> 01:40:37.590
that life has curve balls, you know, so and an

01:40:37.590 --> 01:40:39.430
optimistic person, I'm inspired by optimism.

01:40:39.510 --> 01:40:41.369
My sister is also an optimist, me not so much,

01:40:41.409 --> 01:40:46.069
but I'm inspired by optimists. And the third,

01:40:46.250 --> 01:40:49.729
you know, I'm going all like, this is really

01:40:49.729 --> 01:40:53.529
close to the vest, but my daughter, like she

01:40:53.529 --> 01:40:58.229
moved to Los Angeles, and didn't really know.

01:40:59.539 --> 01:41:01.760
Like I knew there were some people there she

01:41:01.760 --> 01:41:04.979
could fall back on. But the way that she's forged

01:41:04.979 --> 01:41:07.260
a new community of really good friends in a place

01:41:07.260 --> 01:41:09.500
where people say people are plastic and she's

01:41:09.500 --> 01:41:13.920
just, you know, she's doing her thing and she's

01:41:13.920 --> 01:41:17.880
doing her thing far from home in a, you know,

01:41:18.079 --> 01:41:21.930
really big and. Interesting city and I suppose

01:41:21.930 --> 01:41:24.270
I went to New York and kind of did the same thing

01:41:24.270 --> 01:41:26.670
but I'm still inspired by that because she was

01:41:26.670 --> 01:41:30.510
such a shy kid and she just You know, she's doing

01:41:30.510 --> 01:41:34.229
it and I'm impressed with her. So Yeah, so those

01:41:34.229 --> 01:41:36.710
are three three group of people three people

01:41:36.710 --> 01:41:41.310
wonderful. Yeah. Yeah All right now name one

01:41:41.310 --> 01:41:44.470
piece in your current playlist any any piece

01:41:44.470 --> 01:41:47.340
doesn't have to be classical Oh, I can never

01:41:47.340 --> 01:41:49.739
make a decision because, oh, that's impossible.

01:41:50.699 --> 01:41:53.100
It's impossible. I was listening to Shaka Khan

01:41:53.100 --> 01:41:55.920
in my car, though, the other day, and I was just

01:41:55.920 --> 01:41:58.479
enjoying that whole thing. And she has this version

01:41:58.479 --> 01:42:04.619
of Night in Tunisia that is so cool and was unexpected

01:42:04.619 --> 01:42:07.720
to me. So it's not really jazz, but, you know,

01:42:07.720 --> 01:42:09.619
she's singing the tune of Night in Tunisia and

01:42:09.619 --> 01:42:13.619
I hadn't. So that's just based on what I listened

01:42:13.619 --> 01:42:17.020
to last in my car. I need to listen to it. Yeah.

01:42:17.159 --> 01:42:19.960
Yeah, it's very cool. The last question. Fill

01:42:19.960 --> 01:42:24.420
in the blank, please. Music is blank. Essential.

01:42:26.119 --> 01:42:31.300
That's great. Wonderful. Now this. Ends the this

01:42:31.300 --> 01:42:33.899
episode of the piano part and this is a season

01:42:33.899 --> 01:42:36.779
finale and Maria Thank you so much for being

01:42:36.779 --> 01:42:39.479
with us today and then joining us and sharing

01:42:39.479 --> 01:42:42.840
your remarkable journey insights and You know

01:42:42.840 --> 01:42:46.500
with such authenticity purpose and joy so to

01:42:46.500 --> 01:42:48.760
our wonderful audience if you'd like to learn

01:42:48.760 --> 01:42:51.859
more about dr. Corley's work Please visit her

01:42:51.859 --> 01:42:55.380
website at mariacorley .com and follow her on

01:42:55.380 --> 01:42:58.319
Facebook, Instagram to stay up to date on her

01:42:58.319 --> 01:43:01.579
latest episodes, latest projects and performances

01:43:01.579 --> 01:43:04.380
and publications and so on. And of course, thank

01:43:04.380 --> 01:43:06.500
you to our faithful fans and listeners for tuning

01:43:06.500 --> 01:43:09.079
in today. If you enjoyed today's episode, please

01:43:09.079 --> 01:43:11.439
give it a thumbs up and subscribe to the PianoPod

01:43:11.439 --> 01:43:13.939
on YouTube. And don't forget to share and review

01:43:13.939 --> 01:43:16.539
this episode on your social media and tag the

01:43:16.539 --> 01:43:19.119
PianoPod. It's one of the best ways to help us

01:43:19.119 --> 01:43:23.130
grow. love to hear your feedback. So for the

01:43:23.130 --> 01:43:25.449
latest piano news and updates, be sure to follow

01:43:25.449 --> 01:43:29.149
the PianoPod on TikTok, LinkedIn, and sub stack

01:43:29.149 --> 01:43:33.090
and more. I will see you in the next season of

01:43:33.090 --> 01:43:36.630
the PianoPod. Thank you so much, Maria. Thank

01:43:36.630 --> 01:43:39.829
you. It was a pleasure. Bye everyone.