This episode is brought to you by Juneteenth
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Welcome back to the piano part, everyone. And
thank you so much for joining me today for this
very, very special episode. Today marks the season
five finale, and I truly cannot think of a more
powerful way to close this remarkable chapter
of authenticity and joy than with the conversation
you're about to hear. This entire year has been
a deeply meaningful one. 20 episodes featuring
21 phenomenal guests from six countries across
three continents. We have grown into a global
community with over 2 ,900 YouTube subscribers,
an increase of 300 from last season, and a significant
rise in our podcast downloads across all audio
platforms. We opened the season with the legendary
Sarah Davis Buchner, and now we conclude with
the extraordinary Maria Thompson Corley. What
a journey it has been. And this year has brought
even more milestones. We launched our new substack
with over 10 % of subscribers now supporting
us as VIPs. We were named one of three finalists
for the 2025 Quill Podcast Awards in the Best
Video Podcast category. None of this would have
been possible without you, our listeners, supporters,
and collaborators. I am so incredibly grateful
to each one of you for being part of this journey.
Amid a year of challenges in the arts world,
including widespread cuts to public funding,
this season reminded me that especially in uncertainty,
we can still find beauty, connection, and a deep
sense of purpose in the work we do as artists.
Now today, to commemorate Juneteenth, we are
continuing our partnership with Juneteenth LP,
and I am honored to welcome today's guest, Dr.
Maria Thompson -Corley, a powerhouse of creativity
and compassion, whose artistry defies categories.
Maria is a concert pianist, composer, poet, novelist,
educator, voice actor, and advocate for inclusion
in the arts. But it's her honesty, clarity of
purpose, and depth of care that leave the most
lasting impression. In this episode, we talk
about her bold reflections on inclusion and cultural
ownership in classical music, her discography
and original compositions ranging from solo piano
to opera, how real life experiences, the joys
and the challenges of raising a family have shared
her artistry and redefined her understanding
of success. and her far -reaching vision of inclusion,
not as a token representation, but as a meaningful
cultural shift rooted in authenticity, creativity,
and care. This conversation is everything I hoped
Season 5 would be. Brave, generous, and deeply
human. Although this is our final episode of
the season, I can't wait to return in September
for Season 6 with the themes of creativity, and
connection. We already have an exciting guest
lineup in the works and an incredible live event
on October 4 at the new school's Stiefel Hall
hosted in collaboration with Manus Prep. So please
stay tuned for more. Until then, thank you for
listening, thank you for supporting, and please
enjoy this unforgettable Season 5 finale with
the incomparable Dr. Maria Thompson -Corley.
You are listening to The Pianopod, where we talk
to the brightest minds in the industry about
how they are bringing the piano into the future
and thriving in a complex, ever -evolving world.
Welcome to The Pianopod, Maria. It's truly a
joy and honor to have you with us today. Well,
I'm so grateful you asked me. Of course. Yes,
I've actually your name was on the list guest
list wish list for since season one. Wow. Yes,
and I just didn't get a chance to invite you.
So I'm so grateful. And then anyway, and your
multifaceted career as a pianist, composer, poet,
writer, I didn't realize this part of your life,
like being a writer and poet, I never knew of
that. And so I'm very excited and an educator
and of course, an advocate husband. really nothing
short of inspiring and I'm in awe of your artistry
and also presence today and then you are redefining
what it means to be a classical musician of the
21st century not only through your exceptional
creative output but through the depth, integrity
and heart you really put into everything you
do. Five years ago which is 2020. So that's when
I attended your workshop, online workshop that
was hosted by the Piano Teachers Congress of
New York. Yes. And then you did the presentation
titled Widening the Main Street. And you introduced
us to so many wonderful Black composers, including
your piece that you featured towards the end.
You performed your piece. But so you opened up
the workshop with a powerful reflection of, you
know, with so much music already in the mainstream,
why widen it? And the answer you said was very
obvious, like, and you called it out that the
long standing assumption around the what defines
complexity, who gets to be seen as talented,
who gets to hold cultural ownership over the
classical canon, biases that still impact programming,
pedagogy, school leadership, representation in
higher positions throughout the classical music,
and so on until today. So in five years, how
do you think we are doing in the classical industry?
I mean, I've seen some changes, definitely. For
example, I've been asked by the Royal Conservatory
of Canada to submit pieces for inclusion in the
repertoire, and a couple of my pieces were accepted
there. I was also recently contacted by the...
I'm thinking of the... I'm blanking on the acronym
or the letters that, but it was the Royal Conservatory
equivalent in London, England. And so I submitted
a little piano piece for their fifth grade collection.
Is it ABRSM? That's it. Yes. I didn't want to
get them wrong. I should have been thinking of
what they, yes. Board of the Royal Schools of
Music, yes. So yes, I was asked to submit a piece,
so that's good. And I think, I know that they
said that there were nine people they approached.
I don't know who the other ones were, but I see
the effort at least continuing. And I don't know,
you know, how long it will continue, but I think
that it will be harder to put the genie back
in the bottle, honestly, at this point. even
those who would like to put the genie back in
the bottle, I think it's a little bit too late
for that. And people are realizing that, yes,
there are a wide range of people, whether they
were women or whatever their ethnic background
or racial background or whatever, however else
you want to define it, who have created music
that is worthy of hearing and worthy of performing
and studying. And yeah, I feel like now I saw
something the other day. This is about women
specifically. And I don't know what the list
of major orchestras, you know, how they determined
that, but I'm sure, you know, their criteria
were very stringent. That performed music by
women was still seven percent or something like
that. So, you know, obviously there's work to
still be done, but I feel hopeful. that this
direction will continue in the artistic community
and that there's not a big drive to turn back
the clock in that regard. Doesn't seem there
is really. Yeah, I think we've come a long way
since then. Although, you know, the progress
sometimes we feel so slow. But, you know, in
retrospect, wow. You know, I think our mindset
has shifted tremendously. I think it was like
hearing the if, for example, black pieces by
black composers was so rare, or should I, you
know, the mindset was like, should I include?
Can I play this? But that's not the case anymore.
Yeah. And what I what I find is that, and understandably,
way past her death, Florence Price had a huge
renaissance. And I feel like on one hand her
music is amazing on the other hand it sort of
checks two boxes at once and people don't always
explore you know some further corners so to speak
you know it's sort of like you're doing Florence
Price and I saw that at least to begin with with
some of the programming of concerts and orchestras
and things like that so I'm I'm not against that
at all. But, you know, I'm hoping that they'll
continue to look at other people. And I think
that they are. I think I'm on the artistic committee
of a music festival that's local. It's Mount
Gretna. And so that's, you know, not too far
from here. And I noticed that most of the programming
of the classical performers includes, you know,
it's not just the straight canon anymore. You
know, there's always something that isn't. part
of that. So it's good. Oh, wonderful. Yeah, it's
so great to hear. But I know that you've been
performing, excuse me, compositions by black
composers for even before way before 2020. I
know that I in fact, the albums, I think first
one was produced in 2005. The soul scape or 2006
something 2006 was the release date for soul
scapes. I actually did several years before that.
a recording of pieces by Leslie Adams. Yes, that
was my first solo piano recording. And I will
say that when I was coming through school, I
grew up in Western Canada, and obviously there
was no focus on music by Black composers there.
there was some focus on female composers in that,
you know, Violet Archer was very well known there,
Jean Coulthard. So they were well respected.
And in fact, Violet Archer taught at University
of Alberta where I got my undergraduate. But
it was something that, you know, it just wasn't
even in my mindset. And it really could have
been, I guess, I just I don't know if it was
a lack of representation that I didn't really
see. Black classical composers and so I didn't
really think there were any and I give credit
to the people who Challenged that obvious fallacy.
I mean, why wouldn't there be any but you know,
certainly not in Canada And I was focused on
learning some of the great standard literature
pieces that I'd heard and wanted to play and
all that So when I got to Juilliard Again, it
wasn't a focus and my teacher was wonderful,
you know on George Shondor was, you know, that
wasn't a focus of his either. Now, the Schoenberg
was right up the street. I could have gone and
done some research and I certainly played spirituals.
And I started to become acquainted with a little
bit of art song. And I was a pianist for Opera
Ebony, which was based in New York. And so they
would do scenes from, for example, Dorothy Redmore
wrote a piece about Frederick Douglass and I
performed different scenes from things as part
of concerts with opera ebony. But again, for
whatever reason, I didn't draw the line or I
wasn't curious enough or whatever it was in my
youthful ignorance that I just kind of wanted
to learn what I wanted to learn and had always
wanted to learn. And it wasn't until I went to
Florida A &M as a professor. that I was exposed
to, first of all, Margaret Bonds and Troubled
Water, which is, you know, one of her most famous
pieces, and some pieces by Samuel Coleridge Taylor.
And, you know, then that sort of cracked the
door open, and that was also the period that
I met Daryl Taylor, who is the founder of the
African American Art Song Alliance. And he introduced
me to Leslie's music. He was a real champion
of Leslie's music to begin with and then sort
of championing all kinds of black composers.
And through him, I met Leslie. And it was a performance
that Daryl and I did that led Leslie to give
me these new piano etudes that he was working
on. He had decided he was going to write 26.
For whatever reason, that number just appealed
to him. And so he asked if I'd be interested
in getting them. And of course I was. So having
been given these pieces that hadn't been performed,
I was able to world premiere. Five of them had
been performed. I world premiered the first 12.
And also through Daryl, I had met Louise Taupin,
who is, at the time she was running Vidaemus
records. I mean, she stepped away from that now,
but asked if she'd be interested in a recording
of Leslie's, these 12 etudes. And that's how
that came about. People I knew introduced me
and gave me opportunities and I was able to capitalize
on them, I guess. this when you mentioned about
you realized that you didn't know much about
black composers that history of you know black
composers and so on then you started more incorporating
I think that's what what's all about right like
a mindset a shift of mindset that happens so
we are taught oh play you know the usual composers
like Bach, Chopin, they are all great. And that's
what the conservatories, you know, traditionally
expect of you to perform all these wonderful
greats in perfection. But then there are so many
other composers that we missed out and we are
not even taught or educated. And also we feel
like, oh, we have to do all these, you know,
mainstream greats in order for us to be considered
or even in order for us to feel classical musicians.
Does this make sense? Yeah, no, I understand
what you mean. It's like if you're not covering
that core, then, you know, are you really, you
know, so I suppose you can play whatever and
it can be extremely difficult or expressive or
whatever else. But, you know, someone sitting
somewhere is like, yes, but could they play Brahms
or whatever, you know? Now, I think it again,
it's important to cover those composers. And
I don't think that we were trying to get rid
of them. It's just I mean, there are pieces that
have been played a gazillion times for good reason.
There's a reason why they're so famous. And I
think that it's more of a challenge of expression
and exploration if you have a piece of music
that doesn't have like 200 YouTube videos from
which, especially as a student or even as a professional
pianist, that you have to create You really have
to decide what you want to bring with it. You
are in conversation with the score, and you are
not relying on, okay, well, I like how Horowitz
did this, and I like how Rubinstein did this,
or whoever else. Yeah, so I think it demands
more of you as a musician to approach something
that doesn't have this long track record, really.
You mentioned that about your recording of Leslie
Adams etude. really enjoy them so much. What
an incredible series of etudes. And we're going
to circle back, but before, I kind of want to
know your artistry today. So I usually start
up a conversation with, you know, if you were
to capture the essence of your artistry, mission
and passion in just a few sentences, how would
you define who you are as an artist today? Well,
I believe that everything that I do, the through
line is storytelling. So whether I'm using words
or whether I'm using music, whether I'm creating
the music or interpreting the music, I believe
that we should be taking on a journey. And there
should be that sense of, you know, I mean, even
abstract storytelling, even if I don't have a
specific program in mind that I've created for
myself, we should Be experiencing a mood or a
series of moods or something that is going to
speak to us The listener and obviously it has
to speak to me before I can try to translate
that to the listener so Yeah, I think that that
is definitely the through line is just I want
to express ideas or tell a story in some way
Wow, yeah, I mean make sense because you have
such a gift of storytelling and writing and which
we're going to explore a little bit more later.
But now also, we briefly spoke on the phone a
few weeks ago and to prepare for this conversation.
And you share the motherhood is as important
and a central part of who you are, not just as
being a mom, but also being a person and as an
artist. And you wanted to bring that into our
discussion today. So how has being a mother of
two artistic children, because I think your daughter
is a wonderful singer and then your son, who
is also the neo -divergent spectrum on the spectrum.
And also he has a wonderful, he's a wonderful
painter. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. So talented.
Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I don't know why I'm
saying thank you because I didn't do anything.
But yeah, I have found. Now, I will say that
I wasn't somebody who, you know, grew up as a
little girl saying, oh, I can't wait until I
can be a mom. I'm just, you know, I was really
more focused on being a pianist. And I believed
that and I know everybody has to make a definite
choice. If you have children, some people choose
to like walk away from whatever their career
was. I felt like having had this passion for
being a musician since I was very young that
I didn't want to like amputate part of myself,
which is what it would have felt like, you know,
when I had children. However, I felt like it
was a huge responsibility if you decide that
you're going to bring people into the world that
they didn't ask for that in my estimation. So,
you know, you have to take that very seriously.
So. I've tried to find a balance between doing
the things that I really feel are core to me
or have helped me maintain even some semblance
of sanity and empowering and encouraging my children.
And because my son is on the autism spectrum,
I'm kind of grateful. Well, I'm very grateful
that I have been able to do something that allows
me to work from home so much, because so much
of what I do is practicing, I teach in my house,
I compose in my house, and it's not like I never
leave my house, but I have more flexibility because
of that. And he is a very social person. So it's
good that, you know, he has opportunities to
go out and be out without me. So I'm grateful
that he was born in a time that and in Pennsylvania,
the services for people on the spectrum are actually
rather good. And so, yeah, so so I feel grateful
for for where we are right now and the timing
in that people were doing more. for people on
the autism spectrum. But it certainly informs
everything I do. So I'm not, I don't know if
I would have enjoyed when I was younger traveling
all the time if I had had that opportunity. In
the end, it wasn't something that happened. Although
I have a couple of trips, I've had more trips
lately, which is shocking to me. But, you know,
I did some of that. But, you know, once he was
born, I certainly wouldn't have been, you know,
okay, can you go here or there for a week? And
it was not, yeah, it was sort of off the table.
Also because my ex and I, well, he's my ex. So,
you know, when I was, got divorced and I had
really custody of my children, that changed the
equation again. So perhaps if that had worked
out, I might've done more traveling, but it didn't.
And so, But I have no regrets in that regard.
I feel like my musical life has been so very
rich. And I know that for the people who do travel
a lot, there's a sense of kind of rootlessness
in the set. Like I was talking to a really well
-known singer the other day and, you know, either
I, I can't remember who asked her, well, where
are you living right now? And she said nowhere.
And so I don't know that I would have ever been
on that level, honestly, but. Yeah, that's not
something that I think I aspire to anyway. So
these are things that, you know, when I was a
child, I really dreamed of like traveling all
over the world and, you know, that sort of lifestyle.
And I don't know that it suits me to do more
than, you know, a few trips a year or, you know,
I don't know that I would really have thrived
that way. It's hard to say, but I don't, you
know, you can't rewrite the history and I'm grateful
for all of the things that I have. I'm grateful
for him. I'm grateful for my daughter, who's
currently in Los Angeles, and I miss her a lot.
And so for my particular path, I think the combination
of things has been, you know, something wonderful.
Yeah, wonderful and complicated too. And yeah,
yeah. Yeah. In the air, you know. Right. But
it's not something that, as you said, uh you
didn't expect or you didn't dream of and you
know you thought of one thing and then the life
just Throwed you a lot of different curve balls
and it did but I think we all get curve balls
though I mean whatever our choices and I i'm
not one of these people who thinks everybody
needs to have children to feel like a fully formed
human You know, I don't believe that at all so
My particular path But maybe because you were
sort of forced to be rooted in, I guess, you
know, one spot or one town, then maybe that's
maybe do you think that's that contributed to
your creativity? Like you maybe you were more
creative, creative person. But, you know, being
creative, because creative person people are
free in our mind, their minds, which means somehow
physically. don't we have to be worded somewhere?
Rather than? I don't know. Yeah, that's a good
question. I mean, I mean, you have to have you
have to find time to do these creative things.
And it's harder. I mean, I used to write things
or do arrangements on the on an airplane, you
know. I don't know that I'm so motivated to do
that now. So I think that for where I am now,
it's good that I have, you know, I can get up
and be in one place and I may have a number of
things that I don't have to do when I leave town
that are welcome things that I, you know, I'm
like, oh, yeah, I don't have to wash the dishes
and, you know, all these sorts of things. But
um, For me personally, I think finding the time
to do things and not having to think about, okay,
I have to be here, you know, I'm traveling to
there. And I mean, I know of composers who go
on retreats or writers or whoever, and they go
on a retreat for a couple of days. And that's
something that maybe I would be more able to
do if I weren't still a caregiver. But on the
other hand, you know, it hasn't stopped me from
doing what I do. And so, yeah, I think. I think
I think we can be creative. If we're truly creative
in whatever the circumstances, we just figure
it out. Yeah. Definitely. Well, thanks for really
opening up and telling me honestly about this.
And but so lately, you know, I tend to save these
questions a little later in the conversation,
but I think it's important that we begin with
this. So I kind of want to know your beginning.
So you were born in Jamaica. raised in Canada
and eventually moved your way to New York City
to attend Julliard and the legendary George Sandor.
Am I pronouncing? I mean, I think it's Sandor.
I tried to. I tried to pronounce his first name
in the Hungarian way, and I never got it right.
The GY eluded me. So he said, you can call me
George. And I was like, well, that's not your
name, really. But it was like Juj. And I'm sure
that's horrifying to anybody who has. who speaks
that language. But yes, Mr. Shondor, I think
Shondor is correct. He's a legendary. I'm not
pronouncing it right, that's all. So can you
tell us about your upbringing? What kind of environment
nurtured your creativity? Sounds like you already
have this innate, not just ability or gift of
music, but also the desire. Yes. Well, my grandmother
actually attended the New England Conservatory
as a piano major. on my mother's side. So that
was quite something back in the day. I mean,
she wasn't there when, I know Florence Price
was there. She wasn't there with Florence Price,
but she, so that aspect in classical music was
on that side. Now, my grandmother had four children
and I think after this, when she gave birth to
the third child, she stopped practicing. My mother
is the oldest and she remembers when she played
and she remembers, you know, the performances.
She lived in Bermuda and so, you know, my grandmother
and my mother, but, you know, very much my grandmother
always wanted me to keep playing. That was very
strong. My grandmother taught piano. for many
years and, you know, but she didn't really, I
never heard her play. And unfortunately, there
are no recordings of her playing. I wish I'd
been able to hear her. So my mother, got some
lessons. She was the one who did the most with
piano. And the thing was, my grandmother taught,
but her children got sort of the last slots.
And my mother was the only one who was really,
really very interested in it. So my mother was
my first piano teacher and she taught all I had
for there were four kids in my family, and we
all had to take piano lessons. But I really wanted
to. My brother was the oldest, and he was taking
lessons. And I guess from the time I was two,
I was asking for lessons. And yeah, I had to
wait till I was four. And then soon after that,
my mom said she decided to look for somebody
else to teach me. I think I should know this.
She knows this. I was six or I was eight. I can't
remember which. But anyway, I was still pretty
young when I started taking lessons outside of
the home and my sisters all continued and we
all took lessons on I ended up taking violin
for walks I fell in love with the violin and
you know but it was always my second instrument
I mean I started playing violin I think it was
about 10 and I played until I was about 20 -ish
21. Anyway So my dad, from my dad's side, he
was not someone who was into classical music
when he was young and, you know, got exposed
to it through my mom. And then he became, you
know, he drove us to all the lessons and he listened
to a lot of different kinds of music. Like the
CBC is the equivalent of public, is the public
radio station there. And driving to and fro,
we'd listen to all kinds of things like, you
know, Gaelic ballads and, you know, they just
had all kinds of music. But he also was very
much into reggae and jazz. He loved the classic
jazz singers like, you know, Sarah Vaughan, I
think, was his favorite. But there were a lot
of those ladies who he really appreciated. Nat
King Cole, we listened to his piano playing as
well. And they also listened to not huge amounts
of gospel, but Mahalia Jackson was one, and Roland
Hayes, we listened to the spirituals. So there
was a wide range of musical styles played in
my house. you know, in Canada, you take history,
music history exams as you take your piano exams
and you know, your training. So it's all a system
of things. So yeah, my so my upbringing, I was
very much exposed to all these things. And when
I graduated from high school, was about to graduate
from high school, I it was I was sort of thinking
well maybe I should go into computer programming
because that seems to be a more practical thing
to do or whatever but then I knew that that wasn't
really what I wanted to do and so I just decided
that you know and I had my parents support that
I was just going to go for it and go into music
so it was a place where I mean there was a lot
of creativity in my house there was also every
summer we were on the swim team and we didn't
really practice the piano much during the summer.
We didn't practice anything very much for at
least two months and just like played outside
and just did all kinds of you know kid things.
I mean it was a time when you just ride your
bike and then no one had a cell phone and you
know to come home at a reasonable hour but the
swim club was a lot of fun. twice a day for an
hour each. And so it wasn't like anybody was
trying to be like, oh, you know, force you into
doing it. Now, my mom did demand that we practice
at least to some extent, but it wasn't OK, you
have to practice for three hours a day or any
particular prescribed amount. It was, you know,
as our teachers would if the teacher said that
you weren't practicing enough or, you know, there
were certain things then we had to do more. But
I got tired of being told, OK, go practice your
music. And it wasn't that I didn't love it. I
did love it. But it was sort of like there were
so many other things my brain was doing. So I
think when I was about 12, maybe, or 12, 13,
I was like, OK, no one is ever going to tell
me to practice my music again. I don't want to
hear it. And I just took it on and I became more
serious. So I really A lot of things came easily
to me as a little kid. You know, I had good natural
facility and tended to be musical and some of
the attention to the details of things, you know,
like really making sure that this technical passage
was really worked out. You know, a lot of times
it would work. And I think I got more into that
when I was about, you know, on the cusp of adolescence
and really made a commitment And then when I
was 17, I was in college, I was driving to college
and I had a major car accident and I had a concussion.
And before that, I never had any performance
anxiety. It was just like, yeah, it'll be fine.
But when I and you know, I would get into it.
I mean, I loved. I loved performing, I loved
the music, and I didn't stop loving the music,
but I had this concussion and then suddenly every
once in a while I'd have a small memory lapse.
And that was when my performance anxiety, you
know, I started developing performance anxiety
for obvious reasons, but I always loved being
a musician too much to just you know, say, oh,
well, this is a problem and I'm not going to
do it anymore. So I guess that really confirmed
that music was really part of my core in every
way. So. And where does this old writing and
so many other ways of creativity come from the
desire? I always wrote. too, like when I was
a kid, I and you know, whether it was in school
or there's some novels that probably will never
see the light of day that may have been lost
forever. And that might not be a bad thing that
I wrote, you know, but I don't know. It was just
like I always had a lot of ideas. And I realized
over the course of time of people asking me about
being a composer that I I wrote little pieces
when I was a kid too. I just, I mean, like there
was a collection of four little piano pieces
called Naughty Co -glypses and spelled like naughty,
like a little kid being naughty. Tells of a kindergarten
class that I wrote when I was like 13 or 14.
And I did some light revisions later on when
I was really thinking of myself as a composer.
And I had a teacher, her name was Lydia Pals,
who said, you know, the first piece right in
the style of such and such a person. And that's
how they, she, and I think a lot of people teach
you to compose things, but my brother was a filmmaker,
even as a kid, he was very much into writing
as well. He wrote, you know, like screenplays
and he wrote other things. And so we'd organize
this to do movies, like the number of kids and
we'd shoot super eight movies. And so we asked
me to be like, the score, film score, you know,
so when I think of it, I actually was making
up things from way back when I just didn't, it
didn't register something that I did, you know,
when I was writing songs, I tried to write like
pop songs when I was a teenager, too. And then
it didn't. And somehow, you know, and those are
that song writing, but I didn't think of myself
as composing. And I don't know if it was because
I didn't know of women. or black women who were
composers. And so just the legitimacy of what
I was doing was something that was outside of,
you know, what I didn't really it doesn't make
sense looking back at it now that I didn't think
I was composing. But, you know, it sounds like
almost like it's like immediate creative creative
problems. So solution like you learn as a kid,
you know, like your brother ask you to just compose
something and then you're like, okay, you know,
I'll just Yeah, well, I mean, I think it was
because I was improvising and I played by ear.
You know, I had perfect pitch and I would like,
play things by ear all the time. And I think,
you know, add things to them. So yeah, but it
was it was a vote of confidence on his part.
I guess it was like he was going to commission
someone to do these things. So If anyone was
going to do it was going to be me, I suppose.
Wow. But, you know, as early that your memory
from that childhood is and how you are as a composer
today, it's incredible, you know, the path that
you took. And because I understand that you are
you didn't study composition at Julliard, right?
You know, studied. Yeah. But you know, I took
this one class that the only other people in
it were composers. And I think there was maybe
a flutist, but I believe I could be wrong. I
think she dropped out. And the reason I took
the class was because it was every other week.
And it was in the morning, three hours every
other week with Steve and Albert. And I thought,
okay, well, I'll be able to sleep in every other
week. So there was no, it wasn't, but it was
process and inevitability in music, which I think,
I mean, and the point was that some choices became
inevitable in the construction of a piece, which
I never really understood. And I in the sense
of inevitable, like, you know, so I had a problem
with the premise of the class. But anyway, I
mean, I felt like I was swimming most of the
time, because I didn't know if I was getting
on with what he was about. But I, you know, this
is the only B plus that I was like, oh, wow,
I got a B plus. But as I think of it, you know,
I guess I was a composer in that class, too.
And it was more like analyzing compositions and
trying to decide why the choice that the composer
made was the inevitable choice. Just really,
you know, philosophical to me stuff, but Yeah,
but I never studied composition with him. Now,
since I've become a composer, I've had people
like Laurie Lateman and Juliana Hall and Jeffrey
Ryan is a Canadian, really renowned Canadian
composer and Evan Mack. I did a, it was like
a, not an internship, what am I saying? Like
a mentorship program that the National Association
of Teachers of Singing came up with shortly after
George Floyd was murdered and they were trying
to enable, it started off with black composers
as giving us a platform and also mentors who
could look at our compositions and give us, you
know, some guidance. So I would say that certainly
that was you know, a limited, not like, you know,
collegiate study, but it was something. And,
you know, the mentorship that I had from Jeffrey
Ryan through the Canadian Art Song Project, they
commissioned me to write a piece and then they
had, you know, asked him if he would mentor me
through that process. Because I hate to say it,
George Floyd's murder caused a lot of organizations
to say, hmm, maybe we should take another look
at how we're representing Black composers. And
I think, obviously, everybody, each group that
is not as represented as they should be, you
know, deserves that sort of, that sort of attention.
But that was the focus right then. And so as
a result, I was able to get a little bit more
instruction. I'd already written some songs and
I'm trying to think the timeline. No, I wrote
the piano pieces after that. Now the pandemic
was actually pretty good for me on a creative
sense, you know, because I, yeah, so I had more
time. And one of the compositions that I was
commissioned to write, and you know, YouTube
has been good to me too, I have to say, because
I just started posting things on YouTube. And
somebody found me and wanted me to write a song
cycle. for a young lady named Taylor Jasmine,
I think she goes by Jasmine White. And so it
was commissioned by a university, Loyola University.
And that was like, helped me, got me through,
you know, financially towards the beginning of
the pandemic that she found me and commissioned
these pieces from me. Um, and then yeah, it was
just like, I really felt, wow, God is looking
after me. Because, I mean, like a lot of us were
sort of like, oh, what do we do now? You know,
and then you figure it out that you can teach
online and, you know, are you wearing a mask
and all these sorts of things that we had to
figure out. But I would say that I mean, I composed
one of the more popular of my cycles grasping
water before the pandemic. But sort of that as
a springboard to other things, you know, after,
you know, to be honest, I didn't realize this
composition thing came pretty recently, like,
so 2020 is the time that you were able to devote
yourself and create a part of your life. Like,
me too, I started the show in 2020. So it was
like a blessing. you know, in the skies, you
know, it was difficult, but then I was able to
really tap into who I am and what I want in my
life. Right. Yeah. But I didn't realize your
composition. I mean, you've done composing before,
but then. Yes, I did more arranging. And so,
you know, going back into the 90s, I did, you
know. choral arrangements, I was a church musician,
I still am a church musician. And so I would
sometimes do choral arrangements for that. And
then in when, you know, my ex and I met at Juilliard
and he asked me based on hearing a choral arrangement
that I had done, if I would do some arrangements
of spirituals for his master's recital. And so
I did that. And then Daryl again, Daryl Taylor.
I shared with him Steal Away, which is one of
the ones that I did for for Chris, Chris Corlewis,
his name. And so I years later, he looked at
it like he was handwritten. He got into a stack
somewhere. And then he was doing a recording
of spirituals and he found it and he recorded
it. But then he also said there was a program,
not a program, but I don't know what you call
it. It's sort of a call for people to write.
music to words by County Cullen. County Cullen's
poetry was in public domain. And so it was for
the African American Art Song Alliance conference
that he wanted to have this commissioning project,
but we weren't getting paid, but, you know, just
to write songs. And so he invited me to participate
and I was like, well, I don't know if I can write
songs. I know I can arrange things. He said,
Oh, no, I think you could. I think you could
write. And again, this is me who had written
these little things for my brother. And I had
written these popular songs or they weren't popular
because they never got released. But, you know,
songs that I thought were on that vein. And I
didn't have trouble writing melodies. So I don't
know. It just didn't click like I just didn't
think of it. Maybe it was the concussion and
I just, you know. But anyway, and 2015. So this
song, Simon the Serenian Speaks, Darryl recorded
it, or not recorded it, but he used it as the
opening piece in a series of recitals he was
doing in Spain and places in the States. And
he told me he was doing this. And I was like,
Oh, wow, I guess it was, you know, I guess that
was good. You know, I liked it. But then I had
this sort of intrigue already complex about,
you know, is this any good? And some of the songs,
like I wrote three songs and I think the other
two weren't as good. I know they weren't as good.
But just the idea of going forward and having
that encouragement of no, you can do this. And,
you know, this is legitimate. And, you know,
so for me to think of myself as a composer, even
as taken several years, and a lot of positive
reactions, and now, you know, I always thought,
okay, I like this, I didn't. feel like I needed
someone else's permission for me to like it,
but as to whether or not somebody else would
like it. And now I'm sort of at the point that
I'm not so much, I mean, it wasn't like I was
writing them to say, well, I think people will
like this or like that. It was just, especially
if they're words, well, this is how I think these
words need to be set. And that would be like,
I think this needs to sound this way. And I would
go with that. Or sometimes, you know, I would
consciously say, you know, I've been writing
some things that are kind of slow. I think I'm
going to write something that's more upbeat or
something. But the mindset shift, again, it took
a little while. And it's like, do I legitimately
call myself a writer? And I was saying, well,
I'm not really a writer, even though I was publishing.
Things were getting published in Broad Street
Review. I started looking for freelance things.
It was really trying to find. Well, how can I
make a little more money? So, you know, they
paid a little bit. And so I started doing things
for us to get your view. And someone said, you
know, well, you you're getting paid to write.
So you're a writer. And to me, I go even further.
I mean, even if you're not getting paid to write
your writer, if you write, you know, it doesn't
matter. You write and therefore you are a writer.
And whether and I think. This is sort of like
the artist's way, which was something I can't
remember who had introduced me to that. But the
idea is that creating art is something that if
you create it, you are a creator. Now what everybody
else thinks of it is not necessarily the point.
And if it's not good, then you have to be willing
and able to go from not good to better. And that's
how do you do that by continuing to create? So,
you know, will you get paid to do it? Maybe not,
you know, and that for that, I'm eternally grateful.
And that was not something that I was expecting,
you know, but I still think that that spirit
of I think I want to do this because this is
something that speaks to me and I'd like to do
like your podcast. I mean, that spirit. is something
that I think, you know, everybody, everybody
should dip into a little bit, whether it's just
you create a new recipe, say you're not musical
at all, but you create a new recipe. Or let's
say that you like to garden, I'm not a gardener,
but you like to garden and then you create a
beautiful arrangement in your yard. You know,
I think creativity is open to everybody. And
I think we're all better off for being creative
in some way. especially after brutal 18 years
of really difficult training, classical training
we have, you know? Yes, and the thing is like,
you know, as a teacher, I try not to, I mean,
I will guide you, obviously. But I mean, I try
not to focus on well, there's a right way to
play something. I mean, there are parameters
that are established by the time period that
something comes from. so I'm not going to say
no play that Bach like Rachmaninoff it's all
good you know but um but on the other hand I
think that you know I may very strongly feel
that okay this is the way that I want something
to sound because I'm very connected to this piece
and I have a very definite idea of how I play
it but I and I'll always preface that if I you
know teach a piece like that it's like okay I
have very strong opinions about this piece but
um you know so this is how i do it but i would
like you to you know explore it yourself and
in fact those are the pieces that i would demonstrate
less uh than other things that i might you know
be trying to show okay phrasing or something
like that because i i want to leave some freedom.
So but you know, it's true. I mean, and I wasn't
somebody who did a lot of competition. But I
think that that is also where you you know, people
and maybe it's less that way. I'm not really
up on on what the parameters are as far as having
a certain way that you play something and that's
the way that it's supposed to go. And at least
that's what Mr. Shonder told me back in the day
he said, you know, to do well in competitions,
you have to have first of all, like a height
of just steel in the sense of how much you feel
someone else's assessment of you affects your
own self worth. Because, you know, as he's saying,
I mean, you can have people on the jury, and
this makes sense. These people on the jury think
this. a whole set of different people think that.
And if you do something too creatively, then
it's probably not going to win. And he said,
you know, I'm paraphrasing, it's a similar example
that, you know, he's been on a journey where
somebody reminded that. them of their some jurors,
ex wife or something, you know, something along
those lines, that they have some reason why they're,
you know, against somebody that maybe has nothing
to do with what they actually did, you know,
and because they're all humans, right? They're
all humans. So I don't know if the being kind
of, you know, down the line with interpretation
is still a thing and For him, he said also, I
mean, you really have to be able to play these
pieces in your sleep. And so that means that
you have to just keep working on the same pieces
for, you know, long enough that you play them
in your sleep as opposed to learning other things
that, you know, maybe would allow you to explore
my repertoire. And, you know, and I was the kind
of person who, like, if I got past the first
round, then I would get freaked out by the expectation,
my expectation of like, oh, my God, no, it's
serious, as opposed to, you know, the first round
is like, I'm playing these pieces, I'm just playing
these pieces. And, you know, so I didn't have
the mindset to do that sort of thing very well.
Hello, I'm Dr. Nana Ogwo, pianist and founder
of Juneteenth LP, a Harlem based collective of
black classically trained musicians dedicated
to celebrating the music of the African diaspora
through bold genre -defying performances that
redefine what classical music can be and who
is for. At Juneteenth LP, we believe in access,
outreach, and community building through music.
Whether we're performing a rarely heard piece
of music by a Black composer or reimagining soul
and gospel classics or creating immersive education
modules for schools, we're always expanding and
growing audiences. When we play, we invite listeners
into a richer, more inclusive musical world.
This year marks a huge milestone for us, 10 years
of our Juneteenth celebration at Joe's Pub. What
started as a single night of music and liberation
has blossomed into a full week of concert and
events, thanks to support from the Lower Manhattan
Cultural Council, the Aaron Copeland Fund, and
Chamber Music America. We are thrilled to invite
you to Juneteenth Festival Week 2025, a week
of concerts and conversations across New York
City. We kick things off with portrait of an
artist event at Reservoir Studios in Midtown
Manhattan. and continue on with a Noonday concert
at Interchurch Center, followed by date night
performances at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
Finally, on Juneteenth at 6 .30 p .m., June 19th,
join us for our 10th annual Juneteenth Celebration
Concert at Joe's Pub. It's our signature event
where genre -defying performances, powerful storytelling,
and a spirit of joy come together in one unforgettable
night. We're also so excited to be sponsoring
the June episodes of Yikimi Song's The Piano
Podcast, wrapping up season five. Pianists Dr.
Leah Claiborne and Dr. Maria Thompson -Corley
are incredible artists and educators with truly
fascinating lives, and these interviews promise
to be absolutely captivating. At Juneteenth LP,
we center representation, cultural connection,
and musical excellence. Whether through performances,
education, archival work, our goal is simple,
to make classical music more inclusive and more
expansive. We're reimagining what classical music
can be by honoring its past, transforming its
present, and opening doors for the future. Please
join us on the 19th at Joe's Pub for a wonderful,
wonderful concert. We know you'll enjoy it. Let's
talk about your composition, your recordings.
And I really, when I first heard your original,
was that 2020? workshop where you play the lucid
dreaming oh yeah beautiful piece and then i also
i know that in the uh album called soulscapes
2 yes you're not only the lucid dreaming but
also willful ignorance yes i like the title and
i almost kind of know what it means but so can
you introduce us to your those two original piano
solo pieces. Yeah. Well, I'll say blissful ignorance
went along with willful ignorance, too. And the
blissful ignorance is a very short piece about,
you know, literally blissful ignorance. Like
you're just going along and pretending things
aren't happening. And I mean, to me, the willful
ignorance was more it was related to kind of
anti woke things in the sense of, you know, I
incorporate Go Down Moses in it. And so it's
just sort of to me the bluster around, you know,
everything is okay. And people are complaining
about something that doesn't exist. And so Go
Down Moses keeps trying to break through and
then gets a little bit longer moment towards
the end and then it's just shouted down again
by this, you know, like really bombastic ending.
So, again, that piece was informed by, I can't
remember if it was exactly George Floyd, but
there were a raft, a raft of those incidents
around that time. So that's what that piece was
about. I want to actually perform this. Oh, sure.
Feel free. Yes, I think it can get the score
from. What's the website? Cheap Music Plot. That's
right. Yeah, I saw it. Yes, I would love to purchase
and perform both of them. But I really like the
title Wolfo Ignorance. I think really resonates
with me as I am also grew up in. place where
I was in the minority community and, you know,
the voices are silenced, especially in my grandparents'
generation, you know, being silenced is part
of those, you know, a form of... Abuse, in many
ways. Oh sure, absolutely. So you really can
see that and that affects generations to come
and I witnessed, I experienced myself too. So
the goalful ignorance, the title just really
spoke to me. In the album also, you play Mother's
Love by Emma Hoy? Yes. Gebru, is that how you
pronounce? She was an Ethiopian musician. Right.
Yeah, she died very recently, relatively considering
she was 100 or I think, I don't know if she made
it 200, but she was almost there. Yeah, and such
an interesting story that I had trouble actually
finding music by African women. And I was told
Rebecca Omordia, she runs the African Concert
Series London. So the time that I asked her anyway,
it weren't a lot of them who were breaking through.
So a little patriarchal thing, I guess. But,
or at least in piano. But she started off wanting
to be a concert pianist and she studied violin
and then her family was quite well to do and
then When Mussolini came in, then, you know,
they were some of the people that were targeted.
And anyway, she got in, I think she got in to
the Royal Conservatory and then she didn't go.
And so there were some different accounts. I
know that she ended up becoming a nun and I'm
not sure she decided to become a nun instead
of... making, becoming a pianist, but she did
both and had quite a following, I've discovered,
and the whole society dedicated to her and she
used money that she made to help children. who
were disadvantaged to have music lessons, and
if you buy and make your scores, that's part
of what the money's for. So, yeah, she lived
a long life. There was a BBC special called The
Honky Tonk Nun, which is a really kind of bizarre
thing, because her music sounds nothing like
honky tonk. It's very idiosyncratic. And in fact,
some of it has been used in... There was a movie
called Passing, and one of her pieces was...
sort of the theme music or the recurring piece.
I can't remember the name of it, but, you know,
in that and the after I recorded, I heard there
was a Walmart commercial with Mother's Love in
it. It wasn't me. I had to listen to it a few
times. I was like, OK, I don't recall anybody
getting permission or getting any. royalties
for this. But apparently, it wasn't I listened
to it a number of times. And it's like, No, that's
not me. I guess it maybe it was her original
recording of it. But um, yeah, so she Walmart,
Walmart, Walmart, I was quite surprised. It's
like, Oh, my goodness. Somebody alerted me to
that and said, Is that you? And I was like, I
hope not, because no one has gotten my permission
to use up my recording. But Anyway, yeah, just
a really interesting story. Really interesting
journey that she had. And also, some of so there
are so many wonderful pieces in there. But I
care. Okay. Okay. Yes, in care. Yes. You put
performed her dust and drums. Yes. Drums Calling,
yes. Drums Calling, yes. Yes, sorry. Yeah, they're
wonderful pieces. It's a wonderful composer.
of course, we talked about your first one, Soulscapes,
which are including, you know, many other black
composers, Viola, Kinney, Valerie Capers. Are
they all female composers? Yes, all female composers.
After I, you know, recorded Lesley's, the first
etudes, somebody else recorded, Thomas Otten
recorded the other ones. And I sort of decided
I wanted to turn my attention to Black women
composers and focus a little bit more on Black
women. Not exclusively, but certainly for those
last two recordings, I feel like the first one
was focused on the United States. and with the
Price Sonata and the capers pieces. And then
I wanted to open it up and look at the diaspora.
So a number of the women are based in the UK,
but have West Indian roots like Elna Alberga
and Erlen Wallen and Shirley Thompson. No relation,
I don't think. I don't think. But yeah, I wanted
to make sure that I wasn't just focused on the
United States. Yeah, I also like love the piece
by Dorothy Rudd Moore. Yeah, a little whimsy.
Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, she had the reputation
of writing pieces that were very serious. And
so that was deliberately written to show that
she could do something lighthearted. For listeners
out there, they can purchase CDs from your website
or how can they listen to your recordings? Um,
actually, I think they're both like, I do have
Soulscapes 2 in stock if they want to call me,
get in touch with me directly from my website.
That one's also available on Amazon. The first
one, Soulscapes 1 is available on the website,
Albany, the Albany website. I think they're now
owned by Parma and Navona. I think they bought
them out. So but anyway, I haven't checked to
see if they've combined everything into one website.
But yeah, that was from Albany. Now, do you intend
to compose more piano pieces? I'm actually thinking
about like just in the preliminary stages of
thinking about an idea that was given to me by
Andrea Clearfield, who is a wonderful composer.
And she was saying, you know, she'd be him aware
of Malcolm's artwork and said, have you ever
thought of composing pieces based on some of
this artwork? And she has this in Philadelphia.
It's called salon because it was a zoom salon.
And that was a live salon. And after the pandemic,
it's a hybrid salon. So anybody in the world,
and sometimes people from other places in the
world participate in it. And so she said, you
know, when you have a couple of pieces, then
please bring them to the salon and with the artwork
that they are inspired by. And I thought, well,
that's a great idea, because it you know, exposure
for my son's art and also be fun to write just
some little pieces along those lines. So I'm
kind of focusing on other things right now. I
scribbled down a couple like little motives for
a couple of things and I'll probably continue
to do that. So I thought if I, I don't know how
many I'm going to end up with, but if I end up
with something that's like 15, even 15 minutes
long, then I might try to pair them with, you
know, Mussorgsky pictures, which I did way back
in the day, which I I was thinking, oh, a few
years ago, before she suggested this, I was like,
you know, I think I want to take one more run
of that before I decide I'm too old to go through
that trouble. And then, you know, there's not
been a reason to follow through with that. But
if I do, then, you know, that would be my hour
long, you know, I'm not trying to add anything
more than that. But yeah, I'm hoping, hoping
that I can pull that off sometime relatively
near. I mean, I have an opera that I'm writing
for the Cincinnati Opera about John Lewis. And
that boy from Troy, right? Well, the title ended
up being good trouble, the boy from Troy wanted
to incorporate good trouble into it, since that's
something that people really associate with him.
So the piano vocal workshop is taking place in
October, and then I will be back to working on
that. And there's a Yeah, so if you know, between
the Performances i'm doing this summer and whatever
else little projects and things that are happening
in my life i'm hoping I can at least get a good
start on those before the end of the year and
Yeah, this opera sounds amazing. I know this
is not the first time you wrote opera because
you wrote the sky where you are Mini opera too,
but did you even imagine yourself like writing
opera when you are a young? No, this is incredible.
Well, um I just have a tendency to, you know,
people give me a challenge and a lot of times
I will just give it a try, you know? I mean,
those sorts of challenges, you know, someone's,
oh, it's up for you to skydive. And I'm like,
maybe not. But that kind of tightrope, I'm willing
to walk the tight, musical tightrope a lot of
the time. But so. The Sky Where You Are came
out of some art songs that, again, it was pandemic
era and there was a video thing of art songs
and I had performed these art songs with a young
singer who was associated with whoever was putting
this together. Actually an opera theater is what
they're called based in Minnesota. So we recorded
my three art songs and the director of an opera
theater, Kelly Turpin, said, you know, I think
that you could write this mini opera that they
were doing for the Decameron Opera Coalition,
which was put together during the pandemic, of
course, Decameron being a reference to Tales
Told during another pandemic long ago. And so
these small to medium sized opera companies commissioned
people to write, it could be no longer than 11
minutes. operas. They were supposed to be on
stories from the Decameron, but she got dispensation
to do one about domestic abuse during the pandemic
when people were, you know, sometimes locked
in with their abusers. And so a new libretto
by Jenny O 'Connell, who had never written a
libretto before, but she consulted with a local
women's shelter and in Minnesota. And then That
was what resulted was like I was asked to do
this because she said, I think you could do this.
I think that the way that you approach art song
is is like storytelling, I guess, or the musical
way that I approached it. She felt like I could
write an opera and it was just right for me to
try it like two song, two singers, two instruments.
That was all they could afford. And so it was
a really great. entrance into it and, you know,
a very meaningful project. And then I was asked
to do when they did another De Carmen Opera Coalition
the next year by a different opera company to
write something for them. And for this, I expanded
it like they had a little bit more time. So it
was 15 minutes. It was three singers and I could
get up to four instruments and I have no piano
this time. I decided I was going to go completely
different route, partially because of the topic,
which was about generational trauma established
as a place like this beach that all black people
end up on the beach and they're different generations
of them. And this young woman has just arrived
and she doesn't know where she is. And so it's
a very metaphorical thing. And they have to figure
out how to get through. the situation and the
answers together. But anyway, I decided that
the piano wasn't something I wanted to use. I
wanted to use a marimba, and I wanted to use
a cello, and then I wanted to use a saxophone,
like an alto saxophone, and then some percussion.
So that was... starting to do more in the realm
of orchestrating and with instruments that I
don't know. But having started my career in this
so late, I know people who play almost every
instrument and I have collaborated with people
who have played almost every instrument in some
way. So I could reach out to people and say,
hey, you get a book that tells you. this is the
range and this is the things to look out for.
But then you talk to the horse's mouth and they
can give you more insight. And, you know, you
find out more and people were willing to look
at the parts and say, Yep, this would work. Or
maybe you should do this here. Or I know that's
not a good idea or something. So you know, that
learning curve, so many opportunities that I've
been given. And, yeah, it's really been like,
I think divinely led, because I wasn't looking
to do that at all. And then the other Yeah, and
so getting to do, I don't know, I'm talking a
lot. Getting to do Good Trouble was because that
first opera that I wrote, someone who I knew,
Diana Solomon Glover, was a singer in New York
at the time that I was in New York. And I learned
from a mutual friend that she had written a libretto,
I think her first libretto, and the piece was
going to be performed at Santa Fe. And so I just
reached out to her on Facebook and said, hey,
congratulations on your first libero. That's
amazing. And I said, ironically, I wrote an opera,
a first opera that I wasn't expecting to write.
And so she was curious to hear it. And she liked
it enough that she invited me to be part of this
developing project. And I'll cut to the chase.
So anyway, in the end, it was picked up by Cincinnati
as a commission. And that's how that happened.
Yeah, it's incredible. Having to have this knowledge
of writing experience as a writer also helps
put together a production like this, right? Yeah,
I think so. Yeah, it's a full circle moment.
But I understand that you're, you know, I haven't
read it yet, but there are novels by your choices
letting go more than enough. Yeah. I mean, choices
I wrote for fun when I was in grad school and
Honestly, it was sort of an act of, I felt like
I was reading stuff and I thought, oh, I could
write that well. You know, I wasn't thinking
myself a great author, but I was thinking I could
write something as good as this, whatever it
was I was reading. And, you know, it was fun
for me to create that story. And I sent it to,
because at the time you had to send through the
mail, Valentine and maybe a couple other places.
And this lady wrote me back and said, you know,
I don't have any room in my list, but I think
that, you know, Essence magazine was starting
up a series of books for black women, you know,
romance novels. And it wasn't really a romance
novel, but it was, you know, there were relationships
that were sort of the core of the core conflict
was about relationships. So again, it kind of
fell into. my lap that I got this recommendation,
they were just starting it, I sent it out, they
accepted it. And so that was published. And then
after that, the next thing I wrote was actually
more than enough. But they, they said, Okay,
well, you're gonna have to get rid of the too
many relationships going on here. And there was
a gay character who was a central character.
And they said, Well, you know, I don't think
you can have that this is in the 90s. So I said,
Well, I'm not really willing to like get rid
of these people. And I'm not willing to do that.
And I wasn't setting out to be a famous author
anyway. So that was fun. I'm going to just go
back to being a pianist now. And I don't know
when it was that my mom suggested that something
about, you know, writing something more about
my own experiences, my own life, and letting
go is not strictly autobiographical at all. Because
half of it is written from the point of view
of a man. So I, you know, but There are outlines
of things like it does have some Juilliard like
the protagonist is a Juilliard trained pianist
and she's at Juilliard and I was extremely shy
when I was first at Juilliard and some of those
things are actual stories and some of it is really
not and so you know when they're aspects of my
marriage again some of it's true some of it's
not and so I would never say exactly what was
true what was not. Well, some things I would
say, but not all of them. So anyway, that's where
that came from. And then the other one, there
was a Kindle thing where they were just having
people you could publish whatever. And so I said,
Well, I really like the story of more than enough.
And so, you know, it's a period piece because
it was very much written in the time of the 90s.
And so I just put that you know, as a kindle
thing. Now they have taken that down. Now they
don't have you could buy episodes. And so I divided
it. So it's not really available anywhere anymore.
But someday I may upload it. You know, you can
do that. So I may. The great thing about, you
know, these days as a creator, there are multiple
ways to. Really put your materials out there
like whether that is a video format Oh, I know
you were also one time a podcaster too for a
while Yes, I did. Yeah, you also have a extensive
blog. I read a couple of them Yeah, yeah, there's
a lot. It's a lot Finding Beauty. Yeah, that
was my that was my podcast but I mean I suppose
the thing about it is if you have the attitude
which I kind of skew towards of you putting it
out there and someone may find it they may not
find it and Then you know, I'll do it limited
like I may post on Facebook or whatever and do
a little bit of promotion and then you know gets
limited audience and then other things so like
if you put out a book, it's like either you're
saying again if someone finds that they may find
it if not they won't but really to get any sort
of traction with a book you need to really make
an effort with letting go i i um sent it to various
uh book reviewers and you could send it you know
and they wouldn't ask you for money to review
it they just wanted to get free books And so
I got a number of reviews, you know, from people
I knew, but most of them were from me doing a
lot of work and identifying people and sending
them out. And sometimes they wanted hard copies,
which means I had to buy hard copies. So, I mean,
that's the thing. You know, if you want, you
can put it out there, but no one will see it
unless you do some other work to make sure people
know about it. So it takes energy. It does in
time. Yeah, sure. Yeah. But. It's fun being creative.
Yeah, that's true. That's true. And once you
started just for some people, it's just unstoppable,
right? Yeah, creative energy just yes comes up
and yeah, in my case, I've had to like narrow
things down a bit. Like I can't try to do all
these things at once. I mean, there's a novel
that I started. I think it was 2019 that I would
still love to finish. But I haven't had You know,
I haven't had time, so I may find a way to circle
back. It's not something that needs to be current.
So, you know, who knows? It's very inspirational
hearing from you in person this way about creativity.
Yeah, it's encouraging to then that creative
DNA is really handed to your daughter and your
son and. Know we briefly talked about your family
So I kind of want to focus on your son and can
you tell tell us a little bit about your son?
He is I've enjoyed looking at his Paintings and
a drawing too. I like the pencil drawing of closet.
Oh, yes It's so incredible. And they also I love
his self -portrait. Oh, yes. Yeah, there's a
number of self -portraits. He likes to Yeah,
he's he's I don't know if he's his favorite subject,
but he's one of his favorite subjects, I would
say. Yeah, I mean, Malcolm was diagnosed with
autism when he was about three and he had the
language delays and he still doesn't have a lot
of expressive language despite a lot of different
interventions and lots of speech therapy. So
he understands what you're talking about. um
and um he you know he's the essence of him is
just like he's very friendly and loving and i
mean obviously no one's always in a good mood
but you know um but the art thing. It's a whole
other business. It's another one of those things.
So he's had a number of exhibitions. He was selected
one of 15 people from across the country actually
in 2019. They had to be between 19 and 25 and
he was just 19. He was the youngest one for a
Kennedy Center program. They have a number of
things that are for people with disabilities
and the disabilities ranged from you know PTSD
to sight, you know, like having vision impairment
and just different things. And there were two
people on the autism spectrum in that class of
15. And they were supposed to have a nationwide
tour of the art, but then the pandemic happened.
So they had the art was just displayed at the
Kennedy Center and it was displayed. I arranged
for one here in Lancaster and there were a few
other stops, but they had to be cancelled. But,
you know, he's had things that were published
in like the Penn University Review or something.
I submitted things internationally at there was
a gallery in Toronto that had a show that, again,
was delayed by the pandemic, but two of his pieces
were exhibited there. But, you know, trying to
maintain some momentum with that, again, it's
a job. And so I'm the person who does it. My
sister is the one who designed his website, and
she's kind of the webmaster in the family. And
so, you know, I mean, I guess... The blessing
with Malcolm is he doesn't have, you know, he's
not like discouraged. He doesn't feel like, oh,
no one's buying my art or someone is buying my
art. I mean, he likes to think that people like
his art. He loves it when someone says, oh, I
love, you know, you're a great artist or anything
like that. He really enjoys that. But he's not
invested in like, how is my career going kind
of a thing? You know, it's very And it's not
that he doesn't like to get paid for it, he does,
but he's just as happy to go somewhere and get
ice cream, you know what I mean? And just enjoy
activities and whether or not people are investing
in his art, he's not as focused on. And there
are some things about his autism that I think
are really kind of a gift. um i mean he himself
um anybody who has met him um you know he really
is a gift he's just has a beautiful soul like
and um even when he was in school you know um
one of my daughter's friends had has a sister
who was in his grade and so she asked you know
does malcolm ever get bullied because he wouldn't
necessarily have the words to tell me And I guess
the sister just looked to her like, Are you crazy?
Like, who would bully Malcolm? That's crazy,
kind of a thing. But I know that for kids on
the spectrum, that's not necessarily a crazy
thought, you know, but he, I mean, even in both
high school and in middle school, some big kid
just kind of took him under his wing. I mean,
Malcolm is very tall, but he's very slight, like
he's very thin. And I remember he wanted to go
to all the school dances. He loves to dance.
So, you know, I would take him to the school
dance. And I remember dropping him off. Someone
had told me that this guy who was on the football
team had really taken a liking to Malcolm. And,
you know, just as like, you know, like, hey,
buddy, you know, I saw him like, hey, Malcolm,
how you doing? And good to see you and all this
sort of stuff. And, you know, he just he just
attracts goodwill. And, you know, that's just.
an incredible blessing. Even like the other day,
we were in the grocery store and some guy was
like, Hey, did you go to Hemfield High School?
You know? Yeah, I think I mean, he didn't, I
guess he didn't really interact. But it's just,
you know, he has Yeah, there's something about
him. So it's really wonderful. What a gift. And
really, it shows in his painting and portraits
too. I really like looking at them. Yeah, it's
healing. So then, then you co -founded the Silence
Optional Concert Series with Sarah. Sarah and
I started performing together as duo chiaroscuro
when in 2011. And so the the name is a bit of
a joke. And it's also kind of our approach to
expression in that Sarah, her her mom is has
Icelandic roots and Sarah is very blonde and
I'm not. So I thought Kioskira was an interesting
name for us. But somewhere along the way, you
know, I can't always take Malcolm to concerts
in that he may or may not be quiet in the way
that people expect him to be quiet. And so there
was a quartet in Canada, actually, that had started
these series of concerts. with that aim, and
my brain is not functioning today. Anyway, I
can't think of their name, but it's a string
quartet, and so they would have, allow people
to be in the audience who may be, you know, we're
on the autism spectrum or whatever, and so we
gave a number of concerts with that. that you
know if even I mean little kids could come as
well and you know they were short like 30 -35
minutes they had a theme. The first ones that
we did also had artwork for each piece that was
created by Sarah's daughter and you know like
whether she put together um some videos um or
you know she didn't create original artwork but
it would you know things would be images would
be projected and um yeah they were um they were
fun i mean we haven't been doing them lately
she um isn't like completely out of the picture
as far as being uh you know it's like an hour
or an hour and a half away but um just over the
course of time we haven't been performing as
much together But we, you know, as far as being
asked to do those sorts of things, it's still
on the table if people are interested in those
programs, because they're very gratifying. And,
you know, let Malcolm come to my concert and,
you know, have enjoy because he really does enjoy
all kinds of music and classical music. Wow,
wonderful. Yeah. Now we're coming toward the
end of our conversation. Is there anything else?
I have like two major questions to ask before
we go but Is there anything else? I don't think
so. I mean, we've covered a lot of ground. I
don't think so Well, I mean Well, let me see
what your questions are. Let me see your question.
Oh one is the legacy what? kind of legacy you
hope to leave. I mean, you're still very young,
but you know, no, and then the second one would
be what does true inclusion look like? Okay,
you know, so, yeah. So legacy is something that
I can't really worry too much about. I mean,
I'm just trying to do what I feel I need to do
in the moment. I mean, when you have written
things like compositions, you know, there's a
potential that people will continue to perform
them if you write a book or, you know, anything
that I've put out there. Having done that means
that there will be people and there are people
who I've never met who've discovered these things.
And that's always a gratifying feeling to know
that people appreciate what you were doing and
what you've done. I can't be sure of what legacy
will be because, you know, that's something that
will be determined way in the future. And sometimes
people forget about you, even, you know, people
who are considered major composers of the day,
and then, you know, people forget them. I mean,
until years and years later, I mean, even, you
know, Mendelssohn had to resuscitate Bach, you
know. So I'm not really going to worry about
that. I just hope that, you know, I've used my
time and continue to use my time on earth in
a manner that is positive and, you know, I'm
not trying to do something to undermine somebody
else or, you know, just use it in a positive
way and I can't really worry about the rest.
And then the second question was about Sorry,
inclusion. Yeah. Right. Like, is it all about
just including the repertoire by, you know, composers
of color? But I think to me, it's more than that.
But also, let's say inclusion also can be, you
know, on someone on a spectrum. Right. Yeah,
I mean, and that's another marginalized group
is people with disabilities. Now, obviously,
some things, I mean, Well, okay, my, my thought
about true inclusion is that, first of all, to
acknowledge that there was no good reason for
us to be in this situation to even ask that question.
You know, I mean, the systems that were put in
place to exclude, you know, I mean, it's been
so elaborate and so long lasting. And, you know,
we shouldn't even have to have these conversations
because the parameters that have been used to
judge and to exclude should not exist and make
no sense. If you look at them, they make no sense.
You know, so having gotten that out of the way.
I mean, it would be wonderful to have a day when
there's not a conspicuous skewing in one direction
about who is on the board of this and who makes
the final decision about that. And in addition
to, you know, the programming and seeing diversity
represented in programming. And to me, like,
you know, the people who push back on the idea
of inclusion and equity and diversity, I would
have to ask, like, what is your objection? And
if the idea is that, well, inherently certain
things are not as good, because that has been
sort of the idea, is that, you know, just making
the assumption, well, this person did it, so
it can't be as good, you know. The underlying
logic there is non -existent. So I guess, I mean,
the true inclusion would be when we're not thinking
about this anymore. you know, and it's not that
we're not thinking about it anymore, because
we don't want to think about it, or we're ignoring
it. Yeah. Willful ignorance involved, or blissful
ignorance. It's just, we don't have to think
about it anymore. Because, I mean, it's just
like the obvious thing that should have happened
in the first place has happened. Now, will that
happen? You know, I mean, we can hope. we can
hope it seems that I mean, it's not natural that
when you get to a certain point of kind of knowing,
I think, you know, you love pie. And whenever
you go to the place, the cafeteria, you always
get three pieces, and then the other 10 people
have to split the other five, you know, well,
I mean, if you really love pie, it's not the
sort of thing that you're going to give up easily
to say, well, You know, well, how come I'm not
getting my share of pie? There are eight pieces
of pie and I always get three. It's like, well,
should you be getting three? It's like, yeah,
but I've always gotten three, you know, and I
want I want three pieces of pie. So what are
you going to do about that? You know, so I mean,
that's the system. But I feel like, you know,
there are enough people, hopefully, who are thinking
about it and thinking, well, you know, that is
kind of a lot of pie, actually, you know, and
get enough of those people. And we get to the
point where, like I said, we're not thinking
about it anymore. And everybody's like, that's
equity. And diversity is because there are a
diversity of people and you say there's no one
who inherently doesn't belong. So that's where
the diversity comes in. When you have these disproportionate
things and inclusion, of course, is part of that.
And, you know, the argument, I mean, without
going on and on, and I'm going to just stop with
access does affect all of these things. And I
don't want to pretend that that isn't also part
of it. I was born in a family that could afford
piano lessons and good music lessons and all
kinds of things. And, you know, we can't expect
everybody to give that away if you're a piano
teacher. And so how important those who have
the opportunity and the means to make access
available. How important that becomes to those
who could make up for the access that is not
available because of these inequities. That's
another that's a whole other thing. Oh, I mean,
the Bill Gates of the world are giving their
money away. You know, Warren Buffett gives some
money away. Mackenzie Scott gives some money
away and hopefully they realize that the arts
and creativity are worthy of of the funding in
addition to whatever else they're funding. So
Absolutely. Well, thank you. It's this season
of the piano. This is a season finale. So the
theme was on authenticity and joy. And then what
a wonderful way to end this season with you.
And also the next season, season six, the themes
are. Creativity and connection. I just announced
it. So it's just a what a great way to really
connect the bridge from five to six and ending
on we talked a lot about creativity and also
connection to community. So thank you, Maria.
Yes. Yeah. So what's the best way for my audience
to connect with your music and connect with you?
Is that a website at Maria Thompson dot com?
It's Maria Corley .com. If you go to Maria Thompson
Corley .com, it also connects to that website.
And then I have a lot of things posted on my
YouTube channel if they're curious about my music.
I can send you scores directly or you can get
them from sheet music plus they take a cut. But
I mean, there's convenience of you don't have
to wait for me to get back in touch with you.
And then I have I post some on Facebook. I have
a composer page and I also have Instagram, which
again, to some extent I'm not full on like some
people are, but I mean, I do post sometimes on
those as well. And I know we're connected on
Facebook, and I saw a lot of almost like replacing
your blog post on to Facebook. I feel like you
have a Yeah, I used I have a medium blog that
I don't really every once in a while, I'll put
something on there, but very, very rarely these
days. So yeah. Wonderful. Well, this has been
a great, wonderful, inspirational conversation.
But before I let you go, we have one more thing
to do, which is the rapid fire questions. And
then this is the part of the show where I get
to ask fun questions to each guest. Before we
do, since this is coming out before at Wigmore
Hall, if you're going to be in London on the
19th of July, I'm performing at Wigmore Hall
in the afternoon. And it's a program of black
women composers. So. This is for anybody who
will be in their area. Wow. July 19th in London,
Wigmore Hall. And that's a really very famous
venue in London. And is that your solo concert?
It's a solo concert. For the most part, I have
I'm going to be joined by soprano Nadine Benjamin
for just singing two of my songs and a song by
Shirley Thompson, who is a British composer.
So, yeah, if you're going to be there, that would
be great. Wonderful. Congratulations, that's
a huge deal. Yeah. Okay, rapid fire. Alright,
so let's go to rapid fire questions. Are you
ready? I hope so. Okay. So question number one,
what's your comfort food? Oh, I love sweets.
I'm a sweet tooth. I don't have a particular
sweet. Some sweet. How do you like your coffee
in the morning? I don't drink a lot of coffee
anymore. It gives me the jitters. But I've started
mushroom coffee. And I usually I'm a black coffee
person. When I drink the real stuff, I like it
black. Cats or dogs? Cats. Sunrise or sunset?
Sunset. Summer or winter? Neither. I like late
spring and early autumn, but if I had to choose,
I'd choose definitely summer. What skill have
you always wanted to learn but haven't had a
chance to? Flamenco dancing. Oh my goodness.
That's awesome. What is your word of words to
live by? Carpe Diem. Cisa Day? Yes. What is the
most important quality you look for in other
people? Kindness. This is hard. Name three people
who inspire you, living or dead. It can be a
group of people too. It can be a group of people.
Okay. I have to choose my ancestors because how
they made it, I don't know, like just as a collective.
You know, I'm inspired by my, I know this is
a cliche thing to say, but my mother has, she's
like such a resilient person. And yeah, just
the way that she rides out. the different curves
that life has curve balls, you know, so and an
optimistic person, I'm inspired by optimism.
My sister is also an optimist, me not so much,
but I'm inspired by optimists. And the third,
you know, I'm going all like, this is really
close to the vest, but my daughter, like she
moved to Los Angeles, and didn't really know.
Like I knew there were some people there she
could fall back on. But the way that she's forged
a new community of really good friends in a place
where people say people are plastic and she's
just, you know, she's doing her thing and she's
doing her thing far from home in a, you know,
really big and. Interesting city and I suppose
I went to New York and kind of did the same thing
but I'm still inspired by that because she was
such a shy kid and she just You know, she's doing
it and I'm impressed with her. So Yeah, so those
are three three group of people three people
wonderful. Yeah. Yeah All right now name one
piece in your current playlist any any piece
doesn't have to be classical Oh, I can never
make a decision because, oh, that's impossible.
It's impossible. I was listening to Shaka Khan
in my car, though, the other day, and I was just
enjoying that whole thing. And she has this version
of Night in Tunisia that is so cool and was unexpected
to me. So it's not really jazz, but, you know,
she's singing the tune of Night in Tunisia and
I hadn't. So that's just based on what I listened
to last in my car. I need to listen to it. Yeah.
Yeah, it's very cool. The last question. Fill
in the blank, please. Music is blank. Essential.
That's great. Wonderful. Now this. Ends the this
episode of the piano part and this is a season
finale and Maria Thank you so much for being
with us today and then joining us and sharing
your remarkable journey insights and You know
with such authenticity purpose and joy so to
our wonderful audience if you'd like to learn
more about dr. Corley's work Please visit her
website at mariacorley .com and follow her on
Facebook, Instagram to stay up to date on her
latest episodes, latest projects and performances
and publications and so on. And of course, thank
you to our faithful fans and listeners for tuning
in today. If you enjoyed today's episode, please
give it a thumbs up and subscribe to the PianoPod
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the PianoPod on TikTok, LinkedIn, and sub stack
and more. I will see you in the next season of
the PianoPod. Thank you so much, Maria. Thank
you. It was a pleasure. Bye everyone.