Thank you. Welcome back to the PianoPod, everyone.
I am so glad you're here because today's episode
is truly special. My guest is Charu Suri, a trailblazing
jazz pianist and composer whose music defies
conventional boundaries. Charu has crafted a
sound entirely her own, weaving together the
intricate beauty of Indian ragas, the improvisational
soul of jazz, and the spiritual depth of Sufi
music. The result is a sonic landscape that feels
timeless and entirely new. Charu's journey is
just as compelling as her music. Born in India
and raised across four continents, her global
experiences have shaped a musical voice that
is rich, rooted, and refreshingly original. She
is one of the very few female jazz composers
of Indian origin to have graced the stages of
Carnegie Hall, Lincoln Center, and Berlin Jazz
Club. Her critically acclaimed albums, The Book
of Ragas, Ragas and Waltzes, and her most recent
work, Rags and Ragas, have redefined what it
means to blend jazz with Indian classical traditions.
with renowned collaborators charu continues to
push boundaries of genre and storytelling through
music in our conversation we explore how she
developed her signature fusion of jazz ragas
and sufi influences the creative journey behind
her genre -defying albums and the challenges
and breakthroughs in blending musical traditions
from different cultures and what it means to
be a South Asian woman forging her path in a
jazz world. But before we dive in, I want to
take a moment to share something important with
you. Creating this podcast, curating meaningful
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music. Even a small contribution goes a long
way. Now let's get into it. Here is my conversation
with the brilliant Charu Suri. Please enjoy the
show. You are listening to The Piano Pod, where
we talk to the brightest minds in the industry
about how they are bringing the piano into the
future and thriving in a complex, ever -evolving
world. Welcome to The Piano Pod, Charu. It is
so wonderful to have you here. It's such a pleasure
to be here. Thank you for having me. Oh, thank
you. And then I assume you're in New York? New
Jersey, actually. Very close. Yeah. Okay. Wonderful.
Close to Montclair. Oh, great. Wonderful. Beautiful
area. I live in Brooklyn, so we're not too far,
right? Not too far. Not too far. Wonderful. Your
music is truly one of a kind. I've never heard
anything like it until I was introduced. And
so really seamlessly blending jazz and Indian
ragas and even Sufi influences into a sound that
really feels both innovative and deeply rooted
in multiple traditions. I can't wait to really
dive into your journey, creative process and
the vision behind your music. But start. Here
is my first question. If you were to capture
the essence of your artistry, mission, and passion
in just a few sentences, how would you define
who you are as an artist today? I am an artist
who seeks to create music that transcends genres
and boundaries and borders. To deliver music
that reflects my heritage. but also that heals
and pleases the listener. Beautiful. I love the
part where you said healing. We all need some
healing. And that's why I started doing what
I did, because I had to heal myself. And in the
process, I ended up healing a lot of people who
ended up listening to my creations. And I'm very
grateful. We all need healing. Oh, yeah. But
to get there, that must be a journey. Very much.
You know, spiritual journey, maybe? Yes, very
spiritual. I'm very much guided by the higher
powers and the universe. And I've always been
an advocate of taking risks and listening to
that higher purpose, because most of us go through
life just trying to fit neatly into the boxes.
I did as a concert pianist. We can talk about
that. But yes, it definitely was a spiritual
journey. So I can't really wait to dig into even
deeper. But now, first of all, I'd love to explore
this innovative, innovative genre of raga jazz.
you've pioneered but first could you briefly
explain to our audience what a raga is just to
differentiate between obviously there's a huge
difference but maybe you may find some similarity
in between those two completely seems like a
complete different genres absolutely so i'm going
to illustrate that on the piano so obviously
when we go through music in the western tradition
we play a scale And almost every single student
of music has been introduced to music this way.
To learn the 12 -tone scales and the relative
minor and then go on to the next major scale,
etc. So we have 12 major and 12 minor scales
that we know and the Western tradition. That's
how I learned music. but I also concurrently
learn Indian ragas and a raga could be or now
that is a scale but it's a very different type
of scale it's a raga it actually can't even be
called a scale because a raga means modal scale
So when I perform, I try to explain and also
educate my audience that the Western way of doing
music is what we normally think of music. Normally.
From the church hymns to the piano repertoire
to the orchestral repertoire. All. is a universe
that stems from the 12 major and the 12 minor
scales. That's just how we know it, and that's
how people have heard of music. There are over
500 ragas. The universe is actually staggering
how big that universe is, and most people don't
know any. Yeah. At all. It's a niche that really
hasn't entered mainstream music. It has in certain
pieces that have become popular, but people don't
even know that's a raga. They don't know what
that is. So a raga is a modal scale, like what
I played. Where the ascending and the descending
don't necessarily have to be the same. That itself
is one step that's a different way of thinking
than the Western scale. Because we were all used
to playing 12 notes up and 8 notes up and 8 notes
down. And using the exact same notes ascending
and descending. A raga does not have to be that
way. But what also makes a raga very special
and also deep, that's why it takes years of study,
is that it is played in a certain time of day.
Which is a very spiritual way of looking at music.
So normally when you think of pieces like this.
Now the Moonlight Sonata wasn't even named by
Beethoven, but immediately when we hear it, we
are thinking of a certain time of day. We're
thinking of the moonlight. But pieces like that,
and also like Chopin's Nocturnes, are few and
far between in Western music because they evoke
a certain aura, a certain time of day, a certain
vision that comes. Whereas in a raga, that was
always the thinking. That when you play a scale
like Kalyani, which is the Lydian scale, that
is supposed to be played right after sunset.
It comes, each raga comes with that thinking
as part and parcel of the aura of the raga, which
shows you how intensely spiritual and meditative
that whole thinking and mindset is, right? So
when you, I compose pieces in Halyani, which
is akin to the Lydian scale. And one of my pieces
sounds like this. So I really try to use the
notes of the raga. And immediately when you hear
that, you do feel like it's after sunset. The
energies are very different. And I've composed
pieces in the morning raga, Sankara Barna, which
is the same as the Ionian scale, which is the
perfect major scale. So there is some overlap.
But a raga is a very ancient scale. It's over
2 ,000 years old. And it has not been really
discovered or put into mainstream music as much.
It's so beautiful, by the way. I have so many
ragas. I myself am learning this process. And
each raga can really anchor you into that hyper
meditative state. So I always joke yoga originated
in India and raga originated in India. The purpose
of both of them are very similar. Yeah. Yeah.
And, you know, I used to be a little bit of a
yoga junkie. So I would attend a class and where,
you know, the teacher would play actually with
the instrument of Raga. And it was just amazing
how the music of Raga is so connected to humankind,
human being, spirituality. We hardly talk about
it. Yes. Unfortunately. in any other genres of
music right we don't and you know it's so it's
so healing and that's the reason i started doing
it because i was i'm a very sensitive soul as
i think a lot of artists are i am shy of you
know anything that's brutal or negative we want
to be loved and feel warm and fuzzy artists are
that way and i started to go to the ragas to
find my healing place. And in that process, I
created my own works because that's the way I
wanted to be healed. It's just amazing how the
journey happened. I was not planning on any of
this, really. I started playing with the ragas
in jazz and in classical jazz style that I do.
And people heard this and they're like, what
is that you're playing? It's so beautiful. Can
you play more of it? And I'm like... what do
you mean this is how I hear music you know I
did not know that I was hearing something new
in my head because this is how I heard about
music and then I started you know composing and
putting pen to paper and then recording and they're
like this people who listen to this like this
is amazing play more of that so that's how this
whole raga thing was born in my music So that's
where the raga jazz. Yes, that's how it ended
up being raga jazz. That was the journey to get
to that because I was schooled when I was very
young as a child as a concert pianist in Mozart,
Brahms, Beethoven, Bach, you name it. But I was
also schooled in Carnatic and Hindustani raga.
So I would sing that with my teacher. So concurrently,
when I was growing up as a child in India. And
I started playing the piano when I was five years
old. And I started learning the ragas when I
was eight years old. So concurrently, I was doing
both of these things simultaneously. And that's
how kind of I've always thought about music,
I guess. Wow, interesting. So, well, then let's
talk about your, you know, where you grew up.
And then obviously you mentioned you were born
and raised in India. And then so, but where did
the jazz come from? influence come from yeah
that's a really great question jazz is actually
relatively recent for me it's only five years
ago that I went to New Orleans and I fell in
love with jazz with Preservation Hall and that's
when I started writing jazz and my jazz albums
so it's so so recent people like listen to it
they're like we can't believe it we think we
think you've been doing this all your life no
I was really a classical trained musician and
a concert classical pianist So my earliest memories
of performing were performing everything from
Chopin's Waltzes to the Nocturnes to Beethoven
sonatas and Mozart sonatas like every other pianist
pretty much does. And then I went to New Orleans,
and that was the city that changed my life. I
still now talk, and the New Orleans musicians
are playing my raga jazz, which is unbelievable.
I mean, it's incredible what's happening here.
And they want to learn more about raga jazz.
But what I loved about jazz was obviously it
had an improvisational... element to it while
being structured. And that is also reflected
in the way Indian music is done with the ragas.
You start with the raga, with an alap. Like an
alap is an introduction of a raga. I'm playing
a raga that's a late morning raga that's Charu
KC raga, my namesake raga. So it might go like
this. That's a late morning raga. And that's
an unfolding of a raga. You know, when it comes
to Indian music, you start with like an unfolding
of the raga. Then you go into the song, something
like this. And then the actual melody would come.
Now, the interesting thing about Indian music.
is there's an element of improvisation. They'll
go and then they'll start doing really fast,
you know, vocals and everything. So what attracted
me to jazz, to get back to your question, was
the improvisational nature of jazz and the improvisational
nature of ragas were almost, they had amazing
parallels and overlap. The only difference being
jazz had harmony and Indian music doesn't. So
jazz would be something... So once you start
putting the harmonies into it, you've created
something totally different called Rava Jazz.
That's how it all happened. Really? Wow. New
Orleans is an amazing place. I know that. It
is. It really is. Yes. I've been there a few
times. I used to live in Florida, so it was a
very quick drive there and it's a special place.
And so when you just really see the jazz music
in New Orleans and, you know, maybe you saw several
jazz musicians and did you hear the raga is also
coming together like in your ear? What I heard
in New Orleans. was the fact that some of the
melodies were super simple with an amazing rhythmic
structure like this You have that amazing, those
are the qualities, those are the music I heard
from New Orleans. With the rhythm, and with the
stride piano, with the chordings, and then the
simple lyrical melody. It isn't that complex.
It's not like runs all over the place, you know,
it's... That's Hello Dolly by, and that's one
of the favorite jazz standards. I loved that
simplicity, that amazing song -like melody, that
lyrical melody that you can hear, that you can
hum and take away at home. and that amazing rhythmic
structure. So that inspired me to take those
elements of the rhythm and the harmony and weave
it into jazz. So for example, one of my most
well -known pieces is based on Raga Hemant. I
took that style of New Orleans to heart and I
came up with this. So that is my own piece based
on raga hament using some of that simplistic
rhythmic and harmonic style found in new orleans
can you hear the parallel yes i do what a special
blend so the right hand is really following the
indian tradition yeah the raga the notes but
using melody but their left hand is trying to
do more of the The stride and the harmony, simple
harmony is nothing too crazy. I might get more
jazzy later on as I take risks with the jazz
chords. But yeah, that was where I started my
rock band jazz journey. Oh my goodness. But just
to start a jazz music is, you know, as a classically
trained, it's not easy. So hard. Tell me about
it. Oh my God. And most people listen to my work
saying. oh, you've been doing it ever since I
was a child. I'm like, no. That's what I thought.
I fell flat on my face too many times. Really?
Oh, God, are you kidding me? I bombed so many
times, and I bombed concerts, and people were
like, sweetheart, I don't know about this. And
then I kept learning, and I kept studying, and
I still now have a jazz teacher, I have a raga
teacher, because I really wanted to get to know
these genres very well. I put in more effort
than most people have any idea like constantly
refining constantly blending constantly chipping
away to make it sound like it's like really super
seamless which I think right now that's what
it sounds like and I'm And I'm grateful. Yes.
I'm surprised to hear that because, you know,
honestly, five years ago is around pandemic,
no? Yes, exactly. Around the pandemic. And I
started doing more live streams then. I started
putting more videos out. People started listening
and they were like, wow, we had no idea you could
do this. And then I started giving more jazz
gigs and jazz concerts. And then it sort of like
blew up. And then we played at Carnegie Hall,
debuted the Book of Ragas. And then people, critics,
jazz critics started writing about it. They're
like, oh my God, the Jazz Raga. And then I, last
year I went to London and, you know, Marilyn
Gordon, who's Dexter Gordon's, you know, wife.
And she gave me her book on Dexter Gordon. And
she said, you know what? You own your genre.
You own it. Nobody is doing what you're doing.
And that was, for me, the ultimate compliment,
you know? It's just amazing to hear someone from
the jazz circle talk about my music that way.
I was, like, actually really floored. I was,
like, blown away. And now more people are just
emailing me saying, oh, my God, tell me more
about Braga Jazz. What are you doing? Tell me
more. Like, what is that? So I'm hoping to write
a manual and a style sheet and a guidebook eventually.
Because, you know, don't you think these ragas
are beautiful? Aren't they great? Beautiful.
And then, you know, you hear these raga melodies
in like movies. Yeah. They also blend, you know,
sometimes like a pop. style music into the melody
of raga but jazz and raga i've never heard of
exactly i i love listening to it listening to
them they are really spiritually fulfilling you
know listening to raga music so yes that's that's
amazing thank you so yeah but when you first
started blending these genres like a you know
five four years ago whatever and what was the
experience like like as a jazz well classical
pianist to begin with and with an indian heritage
and did this fusion feel like a natural well
you mentioned that did it really feel like whoa
this makes sense to me no i this is the way i
heard music it was very very odd this is the
way i started playing and improvising and i didn't
really edit anything in my head to be very honest
a lot of these pieces just came out um completely
in its entirety like this. Yeah, I know. I never
made drafts. I didn't make any drafts. They just
came like... The Charm of Casey Raga that I showed
ended up being French Quarter on my last album.
And so trying to keep true to the notes, the
piece ended up being... Bye. It's center. I'm
going to go back. Yeah, so I'm really trying
to take it. Now that scale, the Charukesi scale,
does not exist in Western music at all. It's
not even in the modes. It's not a Mixolydian,
Ionian, nothing. That's a Charukesi raga. It's
half major, half minor. And I've been trying
to find any parallel that exists and really doesn't
exist. It's an Indian scale. And those are the
notes. And I've tried to take the notes using
and I created a melody and, you know, harmonies
out of it. And I think, yeah, everyone loves
that. Everyone loves that thing. And it just
sort of just came out in its entirety. I can't
even explain it. Oh, wow. Wow. It's so beautiful.
So for those who are listening, I really would
like for you to explore Charu's albums available
on streaming services. So let's talk about your
albums, right? So that book of Raga's. It comes
in two volumes and I thoroughly enjoyed. And
it's like a foundation of this new genre you
created, Raga Jazz. I think that is exactly what
it is. It's a foundation. It's the first time
I think Raga Jazz has sort of entered the...
the jazz is mainstream in this way. And so Book
of Ragas, which we debuted at Carnegie Hall in
2019, and Book of Ragas Volume 2, Book of Ragas
is almost all evening ragas. Raga Kalyani, Raga
Hemant, Raga Bhairavi, which is not really an
evening raga, it's a morning raga, but a lot
of musicians in India end the concert using raga
by rv because it's the phrygian scale and many
many indian musicians end the concert using raga
by rv so i ended up throwing that in there book
of ragas volume one book of ragas volume two
is all morning ragas I see. Changpuri, Asavari,
Sankara Barnam, which is the same thing as the
major scale. And Sankara Barnam is the only piece
I've written using piano and vibraphone, and
it's the third track. And people listen to it,
they're like, this sounds like the sunrise. And
I'm like, that's funny, because that raga is
supposed to be played exactly at sunrise. It
sounds like the sun is... rising you know and
when you hear it it just gives a feeling of you
know the sun coming out in the morning and and
the raga that's used is supposed to be exactly
at that time of day and you know It's so amazing.
I lived with the raga for a while. And this is
also a way of healing, of slowing down, right?
Of really being in that moment. And when we say
in that moment, in that hyper moment, that time
of day, and I wrote the book of ragas volume
two during the pandemic, and I would get up really
early in the morning and compose. And that's
how I think I ended up using all morning ragas.
But the mindset of the West is just to rush and
rush and rush and rush from place to place. And
this meeting and that meeting. And at the end
of the day, you don't even know what you did.
I have to be very honest. That's how I felt.
I'm like, oh, my God, I'm going to lose my mind.
I did all of these meetings and concerts and
this conference call. I couldn't remember anything.
And our memories are very precious, right? Our
memories shape our growth and our future, you
know, and also our, you know, how we see ourselves.
And if I can't remember a darn thing and I'm
just doing all of this stuff, then I'm like,
what's the point? So I knew I had to, you know,
do something that helped me heal. And when we
really try to be in the moment with the music
and the ragas, that's how I... ended up writing
the evening book of ragas and morning book of
ragas following too yeah wow yeah now what's
also amazing was I noticed that there was a another
element or genre that you infused which is Sufism
yes Sufi music yes and that was something that
happened because I met a wonderful Sufi singer
we both started jamming and Sufi music is very
mystical and meditative and there's a lot of
that sometimes Sufi concert can go on for hours
I met the singer and she was like you should
just you know we should try to jam together the
result was so beautiful was so beautiful and
you know it feels like you're uh transported
in another another world yeah so that's how I
ended up blending Sufi music and which is you
know in the tracks it was a vocalist the vocalist
on the book of ragas volume one book of ragas
volume two different but they're both rooted
in sufi traditions yeah wow it's what a what
a nice blend and um i really i have listened
to both Volume 1 and 2 over and over for the
last few weeks or so. Yeah, I love Sufi music.
And then both vocalists, they're beautiful. So
then after that, you have this Raga and Waltzes.
Yeah. Can you tell me a little bit about the
backstory of this album? Absolutely. And there
is a very big backstory. So my dad died three
years ago when I composed Ragas and Waltzes.
He was the guiding source for me in my life for
music. you know, was the CEO of a record label.
And I first actually started my music lessons
in Africa where he was the CEO of a record label
when I was five years old. So I was born in India.
Then we went to Africa when he was a CEO of a
record label. So he would come home and bring
so much vinyl. So at the end of the day, we would
listen to on this beautiful vinyl turntable,
all genres, pop, classical, jazz, you name it.
He would have hundreds and hundreds of records.
And in the house that we had in Africa, in Nigeria,
I had a piano. That's how I started playing.
And my mom said, OK, she was like, I was like
a freak. I was just playing. I would nobody.
And everyone told me to stop practicing. It was
the other the other problem I had. I could not
explain it. My mother just said, we're just born
to play this. This is this is the thing. I don't
know how to explain it. So she said, OK, we'll
find you a piano teacher. So they put me. And
so my dad gave me piano lessons. He bought me
my first metronome from Vienna. Then when we
moved back to India, he gave me Indian classical
musical lessons. He bought me my first Bach book,
the Well -Tempered Clavier, my first Beethoven
books. I still have them. Every single possible
piece of music that I wanted to buy to learn,
he bought them for me. So when he died three
years ago, my world fell apart. But the one tradition
that we had, he was the reason I knew the ragas.
I would get out of bed and he would be playing
a morning raga. And he would be like, Charu,
don't you think this is a beautiful day? Listen
to this morning raga. Aren't you at an amazing
peace? And I'm like, Dad, stop bothering me.
I have homework. And, you know, I would do the
typical. young kid things like why are you bothering
me with ragas but it was always playing in our
house because he was such a fan but he was also
a big fan of western classical music he's such
a progressive mind so his way of thinking you
know inevitably uh you know gave me my way of
thinking and every year new year's eve our tradition
was to listen to the vienna philharmonic play
the new year concert that was our tradition no
matter what happened where we were in the world
whether in person He would open a glass of champagne.
We would sit down and listen to Strauss and listen
to Radetzky March and listen to the Trish Trash
World Polka, everything. That was our tradition,
our way of welcoming the new year. It was such
joy. It was such energy. The Wiener Philharmonic
is one of the greatest orchestras in the world.
And I had such a passion for waltzes and such
a passion for dancing after all of these formative
years listening to the Vienna Philharmonic. So,
ragas and waltzes is a tribute to my dad. Literally,
the title says it all. He gave me ragas in my
life. He also gave me waltzes. So in that album,
I also have all of the songs dedicated to my
dad. In fact, and most people do not believe
this, the waltz from my father, I wrote it, which
is probably my most downloaded track, the day
after he died. The whole thing, I wrote it the
day after he died. The whole album, I wrote it
in two weeks after he died. The entire album,
it just came out. So Vienna Waltz. So that's
the Vienna Waltz and then the Waltz to my father,
you know, and then there are two Raga pieces
based on Raga, Kalyani and Hayment. And the whole
album is a dedication to my dad. And I just wrote
it. I was very, very grief stricken. I didn't
know what was going on. I just, you know, like
many composers channeling my emotions. And that's
how that album was born. Oh, wow. Now then. You
know, the latest would be the 2023 album Rags
and Ragas. Yes. Right. And then so I see a lot
of big name jazz musicians. That was when I really
grew up. The Raga jazz really grew up. I mean,
we charted number one in India, number three
in the United States, number two in Kenya, number
six in Turkey. We got features in Rolling Stone.
I mean, I made iTunes number one in India, not
only in jazz, but all genres. It was the number
one album in all genres. And I had people, you
know, with Steve Gadd and John Patitucci and
James Lastey, you know, it was like a Grammy
contender. And I had people just emailing me
saying. what is this like this is crazy like
what is this and i used all different ragas i
used charu casey for the first time raga hayman
had done before raga kalyani and then raga number
one which is kirwani big palasi and i used all
you know bhagyashri raga for the last track that's
the evening raga supposed to be played from 9
pm to 12 am It's a pentatonic scale, but what
I found was it's so interesting. When you do
it in jazz, I dovetailed it with Miles Davis'
So Ward chord. Bye. with it i played that was
when i started to get more and more playful with
the ragas and expand the musical possibilities
and have fun with it and it's a light -hearted
way of bringing ragabagishri to the audiences
and because normally you wouldn't have ever really
thought that was a ragabagishri you know right
wow but just you just played as something so
special and wow then didn't you bring back the
piece from the book of ragas into this i did
right yes raga hemant became bourbon street stroll
that was the title track with steve gadd playing
that was very special i also brought back raga
number one it's interesting because this scale
In Indian music, it's called raga kirwani. It's
the overlap of the harmonic minor. And it's an
evening raga. There's a little bit of bimpalas,
which is the flattened second and it's got a
lot of energy. So this raga number one became
sort of like my signature piece. And a lot of
people, you know, like that. So kirwani really
has never really, you know. been jazzified like
this etc etc and you know that is a that was
also there in the album But, you know, my intention
was to really show people how ragas can be super
fun. And I had a lot of people emailing me saying,
you know, we've had a very stodgy way of looking
at ragas. Like, you know, they're so old school.
We had to learn them. And now this is a fun way
of listening to ragas. So that was like, I think
my pinnacle of my raga jazz style is the rags
and ragas. Thank you. back especially you know
bringing those you know first pieces back to
this latest 2020 album how do you think your
sound has evolved or your creation has evolved
first of all it became much more jazzy and i
think you can tell you can tell with the grooves
you can tell with the beat you can tell with
some of the chord choices they're much more jazzy
so someone you know who probably listening to
my first album and like singing, this is not
jazz. I don't know what the heck is it. In this
album, they were like, okay, that's jazz. So
that again, you know, it's an evolution. It's
a learning, it's a growth for me as to how to
think about jazz because it's such, it's an amazing
genre and it's so deep and so layered. So when
you want to take two crazy deep genres like raga
music and jazz you've got to really pay your
dues to both so i think the first thing i would
say it started to sound more like the sound that
i wanted which is raga jazz and then i also think
you know given the the caliber of the solos it
started to be more virtuosic you know like i
i love oscar peterson i love bill evans and i
love david brubeck and i've been listening to
these hats for as everybody, you know, for so
many decades. And I wanted to do something like
that, but in using the ragas. And I think that
album comes close to what I was hoping for when
I first started this journey. Oh, wow. That's
impressive, though, because I really thought
you were a jazz pianist. Everyone did. Everybody
did. And I have to say that was like a huge learning.
I know. And I'm still learning. I believe it
or not, I take weekly lessons with a jazz teacher.
So we go over, you know, I can't tell you how
many hundreds of hours I've put into learning
and just perfecting and learning and perfecting
because our work is never really done, right?
Our work is never really done in order to honor
these traditions. we learn everything from the
modes to extensions to substitutions to modulations
to and runs and all of that stuff and stuff that
i never learned growing up and how i can translate
that into ragas like how can a run be a raga
how can you do a run with a raga as opposed to
you know a 12 tone scale but very different i
mean it's using the same technique but very different
And so I want to just I want to be true to what
I'm creating and honor both of these genres.
And you have to honor it by putting in the work
and understanding your past in order to create,
you know, this. Well, you know, because I'm a
classical musician, too, and I sort of. fooled
around the idea of learning jazz around pandemic
but miserably failed and it's hard it's so hard
it is really hard yeah because no matter how
I try to you know improvise improvisation is
I can do a simple improvisation no problem you
know I can play by ear but Everything sounds
so classical to me, you know, because that's
how I learned music. And that's the thing. Once
you start in the classical tradition, everything
sounds classical to you. Right. And I just had
to learn it's such a different way of thinking
about harmonies. It's a different way of thinking
about modulations. Like, you know, if you were
doing a classical piece, a jazz piece could be.
And you would arrive at a totally different point
than where Mozart arrived at. And so I would
take my well, and to do this, I would take my
well -toned, tried and true classical pieces,
kind of like what John Batiste is doing now with
his amazing albums, Blending Styles. And just,
you know, give it a fresh life in a different
way, just for exercises. And that's how my whole
jazz learning went into classical. My jazz learning
evolved from classical, rather. Right. But also
you mentioned about your father, who would bring
you so many different albums. to home, right?
Whether you lived in different countries. And
so you grew up listening to these music, including
jazz. And I can tell, I think there was, although
you are strictly, you know, your foundation was
classical, but being exposed to so many different
genres of music, growing up and constantly listening
to these music. in the background even, including
in Indian music, I think they are really finally
sort of coming together. I think that they're
all there. Everything that you listen to, and
I tell this to my students, is there in your
subconscious. And it's there whether you decide
you want them to be there or not. They're there.
And what ends up happening is they end up influencing
you in different things that happen. Yeah. But
tell me about a little bit more about your upbringing.
It's so interesting. So you were born in India,
but quickly you moved to Africa. Yes. So I was
born in India in a beautiful town called Madurai,
which is the city of temples and poets. It's
a truly stunning city. Lots of famous poets.
artists and indian musicians were born there
so it is sort of like a city that was meant for
artists it's a the city not a lot of people go
to it's in south india but it's so beautiful
i lived there uh my earliest childhood years
and then you know in south india and then my
father got a job in in nigeria so the whole family
my sister was very young at a time and i went
to africa um in nigeria And there I went to a
local school and I started playing the piano
and my mom got me a fantastic teacher. And I
started playing, you know, from the age of five
and at six, I was doing all of these, you know,
playing Bach and playing some of the more complicated
pieces. And then we decided to leave the country
because it was getting politically and economically
very unstable. So we left because there was a
coup. There was some anarchy. So we left from
Nigeria back to India. And when we went back
to India, I ended up living in this city, major
city called Chennai or Madras, which a lot of
people used to know it as. It's now officially
called Chennai. Millions of people. It's a much
bigger city than when I was where I was born.
And we hunted high and low for a fantastic piano
teacher, like the best of the best. And we were
very lucky to find an incredible piano teacher.
And I don't know how this happened, but she was
a person, her name is Gita Manan. She passed
away a few years ago. She would live in this
big house. Many, many grand pianos. She had,
I think, three grand pianos. and uprights and
she had probably every piece of musical piano
literature ever written in there and she had
so many students that's how my love for teaching
was born and she was such a disciplinarian oh
my god i uh students were not allowed to come
to class if they did not practice they were sent
home wow I know. I mean, I still welcome my students
if they haven't practiced in class. But my sister
got sent home many times. She's an amazing pianist
and vocalist. Really? Yeah, but she didn't have
the piano drive like I did. And we were always,
oh, we were, I was taught really to push myself.
And at the age of nine, I was sight reading,
transposing. orchestrating, you name it. I could
read full scores when I was nine. Very, very
crazy. Yeah. I had perfect pitch. So we would,
we had exercises where she would play something
and we would have to write it in alto clef, tenor
clef, everything. I, every, yeah, I know it's
quite, I know it's an amazing training, you know?
And when I went to orchestras, I would take my
scores with me. So I would be reading all of
the musical parts from flute to woodwind, everything.
And following along, something, a training that,
you know, she gave me. So it was very solid,
very solid. So reading and writing music became
as natural to me as speaking English. And so
that was a large part because of what she gave
me in the training. when I was nine years old.
And then I started performing concerts everywhere
and winning lots of competitions and international
piano competitions. And then I said, I sort of
outgrew the landscape in Madras. And I told my
parents, you know, I should apply to college
in the United States. So I got into Princeton.
I came to Princeton for my undergraduate degree
in the United States. So that was my childhood
too. teenage years well since then you've living
lived in the united states yes yeah since i've
lived since then i've lived in the united states
i went to master's degree in manhattan school
of music where i met my husband and he's also
a musician he plays the trombone we're classically
trained and um you know my jazz story just five
years ago but since then i i just made uh You
know, I composed and I did a lot of, I would
say, safe composing. Traditional, beautiful,
nice pieces. I've always been composing since
I was a child. But when I say safe composing,
I say within the universe that I was taught.
You know, within the parameters of what you're
taught, which is, you know. the universe of the
12 major minor scales, etc., I never challenged
or pushed myself into doing something really
groundbreaking or different. But I knew I always
wanted to, because I wanted to find my own voice.
And one of the things that I loved about the
composers that I think we greatly admire is,
you know, when we play a Beethoven sonata or
when we play a Rachmaninoff, you know, concerto
or Debussy preludes. We are drawn into a world
that is uniquely the composer's world. And there
can be no question about that. You know, when
you play Beethoven, you're like, that's Beethoven.
There can be no other way around it. And Debussy
was one of my great loves. And I played a lot
of his work when I was a child. You know, I mean,
who doesn't love this? I mean all the arabesques
and everything which I had in my fingertips also
still influence my work today. But the most amazing
thing I discovered when I was playing all of
these composers were those composers were uniquely
their own. Like really and truly Scriabin was
Scriabin, Debussy was Debussy, Rachmaninoff and
they really really put their stamp and expanded
the genre. That takes a lot of time. That takes
so much time to come to a point as a composer
where you are trying to do your own thing and
uniquely your own thing. So I had to actually
step away from music and I became a journalist
and I wrote pieces. I traveled the world. I didn't
force anything. Yeah, in my other world, my life,
I'm a journalist. I freelanced many years for
the New York Times. Really? Yeah, writing travel
stories. I've won awards for that, too. Sort
of been on. Yeah, it's amazing. It's sort of
been on the back burner now because my music
has taken over its own life. But one of the things
I wanted to do is I knew I didn't want to sound
like everybody else. that was something that
was very much I was very stubborn about it actually
I was very adamant about it I was like you know
people would be like oh that's a nice piece I'm
like yeah but no sounds like everything else
so and then I and I and I was a little um you
know you can't force or rush creativity the time
comes when it comes you know a otherwise you
end up rehashing things that that have already
been written and composed and it sounds pretty
but you know it's not really your own so i had
to really take a step back and reprocess refine
and do it for myself for nobody else you know
that's the thing is like when you have deadlines
and we have things like we had to do it sounds
like you're forcing and trying to pander to what
the society expects you to create. And that was
very frustrating to me. Innately, that was super
frustrating to me. I'm like, I don't want to
write yet another, you know, sonata that sounds
like it's been written before. What's the point?
You know, you have, it's already been done. So
that process, I could not rush. It was, you know,
it was supposed to come when it came. So I think
the turning point, as I had mentioned, was when
I went to New Orleans. It just literally, there
was a light bulb that just switched in my head.
And I'm like, this is it. I know what I have
to do now. It's so crazy. I went to New Orleans
actually on a reporting assignment for journalism.
And I went to a Preservation Hall concert. And
I'm like, okay, this is all coming together now.
Now I finally understand what I have to do. teacher
where the music was taught not just piano exactly
the music music is so important anyway so then
you know after all these years and decades of
training and experiences and then you thought
you left music for a while being a journalist
and then right all these things just come together
and everything just comes together you can't
you can't just throw away those years of practice
and virtual training and everything you just
can't it's just there This is something that
a lot of young musicians should hear this because
they are all stuck in the practice room and hoping
one of these days they have the shot. But I think
the life experience is equally important. Equally
important because... I don't want to hear yet
another lackluster interpretation of Beethoven's
Tempest Sonata. We have enough of that, you know?
Unless, you know, and with the concert scene
the way it is, you know, unless you're concertizing
from the age of five or six, like, you know,
Kissin or Yu Zhao Wang, playing that repertoire,
it's very hard to have that as a career, you
know, and sustain it. Because everyone knows
the repertoire. Everyone plays this repertoire.
And so I played this repertoire, but I didn't
want to go that path. I didn't want to go the
path where I was just playing the same repertoire.
I wanted to create my repertoire. But that was
a journey unique to me. Everybody has to find
what it is that they want to do with their...
pianistic and compositional career and so this
was what was right for me when you start doing
something different was there I wouldn't say
backlash but because usually when somebody does
someone like you who is a groundbreaker trailblazers
usually some people are feel a little threatened
because yeah I got so much pushback yeah pushback
I think is the word you're looking for I got
tons of uh don't bother this is not jazz we're
a jazz club we don't we don't know what you're
doing I mean it was very very much it was hard
to break through and then I started playing you
know in venues like Carnegie Hall and Lincoln
Center and they're like wow OK, people started
saying, OK, maybe her music is good. And then
they came and listened. They were like, this
is incredible. And then I had New Jersey Symphony
play my work last year. We had a sold out concert
in this. you know, thing called hooray for Bollywood.
And that was incredible. And now I'm trying to
get my work into more orchestral, into orchestras
to try to, you know, tell them about the beauty
of the ragas and how it can really enhance their
orchestral work. And string quartets played my
works, trios played my work, you know, and now
I'm trying to come up with a book of like raga
piano pieces and publish them so that pianists
can start playing them, you know? So. I think
that it was the product of a lot of perseverance,
a lot of, you know, convincing and to show people
like when I would, you know, play this concert,
I would teach people about the ragas and they
loved it. I had a lot of audiences come up to
me and saying, this is just so beautiful. Play
it again, play it again. You know, we want to
hear this. We want to play it. We want to get
the sheet music. So then I started, you know,
appearing in like. bigger jazz clubs and people
just started really loving it. And then, you
know, obviously I concurrently did the recordings
and released them so people could really understand
what I was doing and the style I was doing them
in. And then that got us more gigs and more audiences
and etc. But it was a lot of work. It was a lot
of... uh convincing people yes this is something
different yes it's really worth listening to
because you know i don't think anybody really
here is doing anything like this so i feel like
my my any anyone who does anything different
or wants to do something to expand or contribute
to the genre is going to have they're going to
have people who are going to be like what is
this i want something like that sounds like ella
fitzgerald you know And the truth of the matter
is, like, when even Ella was doing her thing
or Nat King Cole was doing his thing, he had
a ton of backlash and a ton of, you know, pushback.
And getting anything off the ground that's different
or changing the norm is never easy. It's never
easy. And, you know, right now we listen to Beethoven
and Mozart and Tchaikovsky, even Matt Cranker.
Everyone listens to The Nutcracker. Nobody realizes
The Nutcracker was a colossal failure when it
was debuted. Colossal. Colossal. Like, nobody
wanted to hear it. It was not until a ballet
company came and put The Nutcracker to their
ballet that it started to become a beloved tradition.
You know, people don't hear those stories. They
just say, Nutcrackers, they're everywhere. So,
I think, you know... It's tough in the beginning.
I'm very passionate about this, obviously, as
you can tell, given I'm putting every single
waking minute and energy into creation of this.
Not only because I believe in it, because I think
it's a beautiful sound, but I also think that
it is expanding the jazz. palette and the musical
palette in a in a good way um you know it gives
people options uh when they want to improvise
they don't have to improvise necessarily linearly
or on a pentatonic scale they can improvise over
a raga they can do runs on a rug like this is
just extending the scope of musicality and sonicness
and that's one of the reasons why i'm like passionate
about this so but it's it's taken some time but
i think it's it's getting there Wow, but it takes
courage, you know, to do. I'm not going to lie.
It's not been, you know, bed of roses, especially
as a woman in jazz field and especially from
India doing this. You know, everyone wants you
to be like a doctor or a lawyer or, you know,
get a job in a corporate office with beautiful
views of the city. And here I am. composing and
taking my work on the road um but it is right
for me because you know i had a corporate job
before and i you know all of them and it was
just i was like what am i doing here i just don't
belong here you know yeah even before i was a
journalist i believe it or not i worked at wall
street for a bit as a banker yeah so i've done
it all and i really try to be show some integrity
to be true to myself it's been it's been hard
but I think that, you know, most people, they
go through the routine and go through the motions
and go through the jobs that they don't like
in order to get a paycheck, have a roof, have
family. And, you know, I'm very grateful I have
all of those things. I have an amazing family.
I have a roof over my head. But creatively, I
was not at a good place. I didn't want to be
just like, you know. every other composer ever
lived. And that was not sitting well with me.
It was a very stubborn internal wrestle that
I had with me. And I wanted to bring my identity
to the table. And that's how I had to sort of,
I had to go through life to the school of hard
knocks, as they say, the school of really hard
knocks. Yeah. So what would you give to those?
you know, fellow artists or aspiring artists
who are yet to discover themselves. And, you
know, it's just maybe they just graduated from
school and they're starting their career and
beginning to really that's when you actually,
you know, get to know yourself, starting to get
to know yourself. Right. So is there. I would
say that, you know, it sounds really hard, but
and it is actually hard to do in practice. But
you don't have to be all things to all people.
That's rule number one. I think that's very hard
because we have a certain expectation as a society.
You know, a musician will play on the concert
stage and they will do this and they will practice
this and this is your repertoire and that is
the way to do things. It works for some people
and it doesn't work for others. I think it's
important to find out who you are so that you
don't have to be all things to all people. Because
honestly, if you yourself are not convinced of
your own path and your journey, you cannot convince
others. It just is not going to work. You have
to be very rock solid and convinced this is your
calling and this is your passion. And I would,
you know, play these beautiful pieces and at
the end of the day, I would always come home
thinking, hmm, I can do something. different
i can do something else and you know i love playing
the piano i would never change anything that
about my journey i just this is who i am this
is my office this is where i live and breathe
and for many pianists and musicians this is their
office if they're behind an instrument that's
their office but they're not necessarily sure
if they have to be playing mozart or they have
to be playing haydn or they have to be playing
a concerto and i'm just saying find what You
cannot live without. You cannot live without
something means it has to be part of you. You
know, I actually love creating this. I love bringing
this sound. I love it's something I can't live
without. You know, the part of creation and blending
and bringing in ragas. Find what's something
you cannot live without. And if you cannot live
without it, then you were probably born to do
that. Being a female, especially from South Asian.
with a South Asian representation, you know,
it's still the industry is male dominated field.
Yeah. So have you, have we seen any progress
in terms of representation opportunities? I think
it's, I think people are starting to embrace
women a lot more. Like, especially when I travel
and tour in India, I'm always blown away by the
comments I get from women. especially Indian
women who never really done jazz or know jazz
or tried to do jazz. They're like, this is so
inspiring. You know, it's new to me. It's amazing.
And I gave a master class when I was recently
played at the Royal Opera House in Mumbai. My
second time playing there, which is amazing.
And I gave a master class at Whistling Woods,
which is the largest film school in Asia and
also the largest Bollywood film school in Mumbai.
And I gave a masterclass to a ton of students
and I explained raga jazz, how to improvise.
The students were just like so, you know, mesmerized.
And being a woman and doing all of that, getting
the band together, getting the acts, traveling
by myself, playing a show, composing every scrap
of the music, arranging, orchestrating, it's
not easy. It's really hard. It's just very hard.
Because, you know, we don't do covers. We do
originals. These are all my pieces. So first
of all, it's the composing and getting the music
done and recording. Second of all, it's booking
shows and taking it out. I mean, it's just a
lot of work. So, but the amazing thing is, you
know, we need role models. We need mentors because
honestly. the glass ceiling has to be broken.
We cannot continue in a space where there are
no female jazz musicians, especially coming from
India or Asia. We have to be the change. We have
to absolutely show that it can be done and you
can actually do it. So that way the, you know,
people are inspired and they don't feel that
it's absolutely impossible to do. And second
thing is, you know, collaborators and musicians
are everywhere and so many musicians want to
work with me and I collaborated with a lot of
amazing local musicians and I love playing with
them and I love collaborating with them I love
sharing my music with them I'm gonna be playing
Miami in like a couple of weeks I love playing
with the local jazz scene there and you know
so they get to know my work and they get to you
know do this They've been great. They've been
great, very respectful, amazing. I have had nothing
but amazing experiences with jazz musicians in
India, the local talent there. I went to England
and I played with my dear friend Wendy Kirkland,
had great experiences there. I recently played
in Italy in Turin. We had a sold -out show festival,
hundreds of people outdoors in Turin, showcased
raga jazz there with my dear friend there. Super,
super responsive. to my music and my audience
has been amazing. It really has been amazing.
And I think that taking the courage to do it
is the first step. Our conversation is going,
you know, almost ending and it's just time flies
so fast, but maybe just one or two more. So if
there's one thing you hope your listeners or
listeners to take away from your music, what
would it be? just appreciate how beautiful the
ragas are how how we can actually create harmony
between cultures and borders, how there are possibilities,
and really how we shouldn't pigeonhole ourselves
and our thinking in a certain way, because there's
so much beauty, so much richness, so much we
can learn from each other, from different cultures,
from different, you know, countries and different
traditions, that we can just open our minds and
listen and appreciate and collaborate and come
together. That's it. That's what I really would
love. And then what legacy do you hope to leave
in jazz and the global music landscape? I really
would like raga jazz to be a thing, more mainstream.
I would like people like how, you know, we listen
to country and pop and rock and roll and all
of that stuff, which was created. I mean, it
wasn't something that just, you know, existed,
created it. I would like that to be more, you
know. Well, no, we had lots of great styles in
jazz. You know, we had the Dixie style, the stride.
And then we had, you know, American Songbook,
which everybody has to do. And then Balsa Nova,
then Bebop and Hardbop and all of that. You know,
so I guess I want this to be like, you know,
an innovation and a contribution. It is already
an innovation. So congratulations. And I think
there's more, I'm sure. you know, albums and
books to come? Definitely. Yes. I'm working on
my first new age album, ambient album, all using
Indian ragas. It's not jazz, but it, it still
uses ragas. We are debuting it in Carnegie hall,
July 25th. Yeah. Yes, all healing evening ragas.
Using some ragas that I haven't used before,
like Raga Desh. And it's a new age album. And
it's simpler. It's simpler for people to play
and learn. And it'll be the first time I think
I've written a hymn based on a raga. It actually
sounds like a hymn, like a spiritual hymn. But
it's all using ragas. Yeah, I call it Mohanam
hymn. And my friend heard it and they're like,
oh, this is like the Amazing Grace, but raga
version. And I said, yeah. So it's a simpler
way to learn the ragas. It's not jazzy. It's
not crazy, crazy virtuosic. But in a way, once
I transcribe it and for people to download and
play, they can actually play a simple song like
on a raga. after that so we'll keep speaking
of uh so i'm sure you have more events to come
so now it's time to promote your current and
upcoming projects the floor is yours so please
take it away Oh, thank you. I've had a great
time touring India. I will be back in India this
summer playing at a big, big auditorium. We're
working on the Ambani Center, which is a big,
big auditorium. It's like the Kennedy Center
in India. In a couple of weeks, I'll be playing
Miami. I'll be playing the Loomis Park Festival
on March 16th outdoors with some fantastic...
jazz musicians in Miami on the bass and the drums.
And then I'll be in the Hudson Valley March 22nd
playing in Back Bar, which is this venue that
is in the Hudson Valley Poughkeepsie area. And
then I'll be at Carnegie Hall for my fifth appearance
in July, July 25th, debuting my new album, playing
with some legends in the music scene, including
Premik Russell Tubbs, who's a flute player, who
was one of the original members of John McLaughlin's
Mahavishnu Orchestra. So he's a big fan and he's
able to straddle, you know, the... the bragas
and the jazz because that's something what he
was doing with john mcleod in spain early on
um and then in the in i'll be touring spain we're
getting the exact dates and and be back in london
um yeah so my my calendar i have all my dates
on my calendar for people to to get bookings
and shows on charusuri .com um and yeah we're
we're we're planning to play in uh many more
jazz clubs in the country and also abroad yeah
wow wonderful and you mentioned there's a new
album coming or yes so i'm working um i'm not
touring as much this year because i am focusing
on recording and releasing my album nidra which
in sanskrit means sleep it's all using very calming
uh evening ragas because we are right now going
through a very big stress in turmoil, everybody
is going through some very... exceptional stress
given you know the events the landscape personal
troubles and you know all of that stuff and and
and the album was born because my a lot of my
friends and even myself had difficulty sleeping
and i don't want you know people to resort to
taking a pill to go to sleep i just think that
if we can find natural ways listening to music
of very healing music and having a good night's
rest that would be uh the best thing for our
health so all of the all album ragas are supposed
to be played right after sunset in the evening
and that's how the ancient culture they've been
doing it for years so i've composed music using
these ragas and we have a phenomenal uh talent
pool of musicians um on that album that will
be coming out in july yeah Well, I may be able
to attend your Carnegie concert. So I would love
that in July. Yeah. So before I let you go, I
didn't tell you, but we have this rapid fire
questions. Yes, yes, yes. So, yeah, just to end
our conversation in a little bit more faster
pace and a fun way. So, yeah, I will ask some
silly questions. And here's a little twist. As
silly as these questions may sound, your answers
may reveal who you truly are. So ready or not,
let's do it. So question number one, what is
your comfort food? An Indian thali. It's a silver
platter full of many different curries, rice,
Indian bread, and like stews. And it's something
that I always go to after a hard tour or recording
session. I go get that. Oh, yes. That sounds
so amazing. How do you like your coffee in the
morning? Steamed oat milk, espresso, and that's
it, no sugar. So oat milk latte. Cats or dogs?
A dog person, but now I've had to adjust to cats
because my daughter's a cat person. Okay. Sunrise
or sunset? Sunset. I'm a night owl. Summer or
winter? Definitely summer. I was born in India.
Now, level two. What skill have you always wanted
to learn but haven't had a chance to? I would
say cooking properly. I dabble in cooking and
make some dishes, but by my mom's standards,
you are a disastrous cook. Oh, always mom. Yes.
What is your word or words to live by? Authenticity,
integrity. What is the most important quality
you look for in other people? Kindness and integrity.
Name three people who inspire you, living or
dead. I know this is really difficult. Miles
Davis, huge influence. Oscar Peterson, huge influence.
And Davey C. Davey C has been my reason why I
think I went into jazz. Because I think he was
really the first classical jazz composer. Good
point. You're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Name one
piece in your current playlist. I would say Kind
of Blue by Miles Davis. It's very modal. It's
gentle. It's very much the style of what I'm
doing. Last question. Fill in the blank. Music
is blank. Life. Ah, yes. So that wraps up this
episode of The Pianopod. A heartfelt thanks to
you, Charu, for joining us today and sharing
your incredible, incredible stories and insights
and expertise with such authenticity and joy.
So to our wonderful audience, you can learn more
about Charu and her work by visiting her website
at charusuri .com and start listening to her
wonderful raga jazz music on all streaming services.
And of course, thank you to Faithful fans and
listeners for tuning in today. If you enjoyed
today's episode, please give it a thumbs up and
subscribe to The Piano Pod on YouTube. And please
don't forget to share and review this episode
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I will see you for the next episode of The Piano
Pod. Bye, everyone. And thank you, Charu, once
again. It's an honor. Thank you so much for hearing
my story. And from the bottom of my heart, thank
you. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.