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Hello, piano pot friends and listeners. Before we dive into today's conversation with inspiring guest, Dr. Artina McKay,

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I want to take a moment to acknowledge the timing of this interview.

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We recorded this session on October 24, 2024, just days before the recent U.S. presidential election.

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As we release this episode, the world is witnessing a pivotal moment, grappling with the impact of this election and what it signifies for the future.

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However, the conversation you are about to hear was recorded prior to knowing the outcome.

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It focuses on Artina's tireless advocacy for underrepresented composers, her profound commitment to diversity and equity in classical music,

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and her journey to bring greater inclusion to the arts.

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We believe that these themes are more relevant than ever given the current social and political climate.

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While we may not touch directly on the election results, the topics we discussed reflect a deeper ongoing commitment to change,

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representation, and the power of music as a force for unity and healing.

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Thank you for joining us for this important conversation.

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Now, before we get started, I would like to introduce our sponsor for the month, the Artsong Preservation Society of New York.

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Their generous support makes this episode possible.

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I'm Blair Boone-Megura, the founder of the Artsong Preservation Society of New York,

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and I'm inviting you to join us for our Summer of Song Festival 2025, hosted by Manhattan School of Music.

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Join us for enchanting artsong recitals and masterclass performance workshops led by international artists.

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Visit www.artsongpreservationsocietyny.org for details, and join us in this realm where music speaks and words sing.

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Welcome back to the new episode of the PianoPod, everyone.

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Today, I am so thrilled to introduce our guest, Dr. Artina McCain, an award-winning pianist, Yamaha artist, wellness advocate, and educator.

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Artina was nominated by Nena Aguo, pianist, educator, and founder of Juneteenth LP, whom I had the privilege of interviewing last season.

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A big shout out to Nena.

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Thank you for nominating Artina as our guest of this season.

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And if you haven't listened to Nena's episode yet, it's season four, episode four, so please check it out on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

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Now, let me tell you a bit more about today's incredible guest.

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Dr. Artina McCain has been hailed as a virtual pianist by the New York Times.

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She has graced prestigious stages like Wigmore Hall, Carnegie Hall, and has performed with top tier orchestras such as the Dallas Symphony and Memphis Symphony.

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Artina is a passionate advocate for underrepresented composers, curating concerts to showcase their works, and she has received widespread recognition for her recordings, including her award-winning album, Heritage.

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Beyond her impressive performance career, Artina is also a leading voice in musicians wellness.

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After overcoming a performance related injury, she now shares her insights through lectures, articles, and presentations, helping others navigate their own wellness journeys.

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Her work has been featured on platforms like PBS and BBC, and she is currently an associate professor of piano at the University of Memphis, where she continues to shape the next generation of musicians.

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Before we dive into this inspiring conversation, I want to take a moment to thank our incredible TPP fans and loyal listeners.

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Your support keeps this show going, so if you enjoyed what you hear today, please rate and review us.

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It truly helps others discover the show.

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For those tuning in for the first time, welcome.

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I am Yukimi Song, a classical pianist and educator based in New York City.

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Whether you are pursuing a career in music, working in the classical music industry, or just passionate about piano, this podcast is your backstage pass to the fascinating world of the piano.

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In each bi-weekly episode, we connect with extraordinary talents who are shaping the future of classical music.

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Our mission is to build a community that embraces fresh perspectives, ensuring classical music thrives in today's ever-changing world.

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Be sure to check out the Season 5 introductory episode to get a glimpse of what's ahead.

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And don't forget, you can catch up on previous episodes on your favorite podcast platforms or YouTube.

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Now let's dive into Dr. McCain's inspiring journey as a pianist, wellness advocate, speaker, and educator.

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Please enjoy the show.

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You are listening to the PianoPod, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the future and thriving in a complex, ever-evolving world.

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Welcome to the PianoPod, Artina. It's so wonderful to have you today.

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Oh my God, you're one of the most sought after artists to book an interview.

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So I'm super grateful.

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Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

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Thank you. So I actually met you a few years ago, very briefly, though I don't expect you to remember me because it was really brief, but also it was a little under unusual circumstances.

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It was late 2021, early 22, around the time when in-person live events were starting up again with many restrictions and we were all wearing masks.

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Oh, please keep going. Please refresh my memory.

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Okay. Yeah. Well, except for the presenter, which was you, and you were in New York for a few days to perform and then probably you are promoting your book, the piano book.

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Oh, yeah. The African-American folk songs.

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I think so, right? Wasn't it around the time you were publishing the book?

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Oh, yeah. Yes, I went to the Yamaha. Is that where it was?

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Yes.

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Yes, I am still part of the Piano Teachers Congress of New York.

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Oh, you guys are great.

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Oh, thank you. It was so fun.

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We were all like this.

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Yeah, I know. That's why I don't expect you to remember.

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Right. Now I do recognize your eyes.

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Okay, good. But I think you're the only person who were allowed to not wear the mask at the time because they were the presenter.

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Anyway, it feels like such a long time ago, but at the same time, it was like only two years ago. It's amazing.

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Yes.

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Right. Then I think the topic of your presentation was about incorporating diverse piano literature into teaching.

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At the start of your presentation, you asked if anyone from the audience could volunteer and list the names of the composers that their students were performing or playing.

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I remember a few audience members raised their hands and they all said their students were playing the usual suspects, like Bach, Beethoven, blah, blah, blah.

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There's nothing wrong with those composers, of course.

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But in contrast, you presented the intermediate piano pieces by underrepresented composers, composers with various backgrounds, mainly from your newly published book at the time, African American Folk Songs.

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So I want to ask now, how are we doing in terms of keeping up with this being more inclusive?

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And it was, of course, the time was a year after big 2020 Black Lives Matter movement.

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And that was a big wake up call for a lot of us.

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And also, I remember I was talking to you afterwards and then remember the Kaufman competition, youth competition also started incorporating those compositions by underrepresented composers.

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So what's your take on that? Like, did we lose the momentum or are we doing a good job keeping up with this movement?

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That's a great question. So I kept doing that presentation you give me. You'd be so proud of me.

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I've done it in many other places. Now, you all were actually one of the first that I had done outside of the National Conference of Keyboard Pedagogy.

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So since then, I've been several schools. And I do think that we're doing better now.

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When I ask the questions, people have one or two that are like, oh, you know, those are unfamiliar.

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We still have a lot of Bach Chopin Liszt Brahms showing up in competitions.

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But I think as we, you know, podcasts like this, teachers like you, myself keep talking about it.

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More and more people are like, oh, you know, I really need to find something that's underrepresented or even just something that represents myself,

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which is not usually Bach, Beethoven or Brahms. So most people kind of fall into a category where they're not being seen and heard.

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So I think we are doing better.

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Right. Yeah. And also that movement 2020 broke the barrier of gender, too.

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Don't you think? And I'm seeing a lot of artists starting incorporating more female composers and female living composers.

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Yes, no, most definitely. I think awareness is the first step to getting people to actually making action changes.

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You've been passionate out of get for underrepresented composers and especially composers of color.

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You've been promoting their works before 2020. I know you've been doing this for a long time.

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And so what sort of obstacles have you encountered promoting and particularly in classical music spaces that traditionally focus on white male composers?

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Yes. Well, and thank you for saying that. Yes, I have been doing this work.

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Actually, probably, you know, I started kind of when I was a student, not on purpose,

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but just because I had a few mentors who were like, hey, you should look into this. You should look into that.

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Before it was trending at all. You know, actually, my professor and my doctorate degree was like,

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you should play George Walker, who is an African-American composer.

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You want to pull it surprise. So why aren't we playing his music?

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So I had my first recording actually in 2011 of African-American art songs and folk songs and spiritual, sorry, with Icy Simpson Monroe.

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And that was sort of the eye opening moment where I was like, oh, I should keep diving deeper into this.

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And it actually started with me playing vocal music and chamber music.

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And so since that time, actually, that time I thought was sort of the golden era.

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There weren't a lot of opposition because nobody really knew what we were doing.

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So they're like, oh, is that weird thing she likes to do?

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But since 2020, where it became more publicly known and more people sort of jumped on a bandwagon and some of them have already jumped off,

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you know, I think it started off like, yay. And now I feel the opposition is like some people think we're taking something.

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Like if we give space to people who are underrepresented or not represented at all,

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you're taking something away from the standard repertoire, which I think is very unfortunate because I think we all win when we're inclusive.

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You know, I mean, really, very few people are represented in the canon if you start to think about it.

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So if you live in America, there's not even much American representation in the canon.

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So I kind of feel like everybody should be wanting to expand the canon because it just provides more opportunities for everyone.

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Exactly. The opportunities. Exactly. Right. Yeah.

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Scarcity mindset is the opposite of that. Right.

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Exactly. And that's what I think is creeping in now, unfortunately.

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So, I mean, I'm still doing great work and still have lots of invitations to do the work.

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But every once in a while you get someone that's like, oh, this is a lesser than project or this is not as good as if we just sit here and listen to Beethoven sonatas all the time.

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So I won't name any names, but we definitely have had a little bit of that.

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The thing is to think of less. Right. So one particular group of people or group of composers,

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for example, I'm obviously Asian and there are so many Asian population in the classical music world.

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However, do you ever hear Asian composers? Exactly. Hardly. That's weird.

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Very, very even even less than Black composers now.

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I know there are so many of us in the industry. So, you know, in so scarcity mindset. So that also reflects in other opportunities, not outside of music as well, whether that is political or.

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Right. Yes, yes. And I think also it's kind of a mentality of worship,

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like people worship these composers from certain countries, even when they don't represent themselves, which I think is like mind boggling.

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I'm like you worshiping sort of an oppressive mindset that's come over you that prevents you from actually being who you are.

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So I think the more, again, awareness and just conversations like this that gets people thinking is I think some people don't even realize that they've sort of like put Bach in a shrine on a temple,

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you know, in a church somewhere and they bow down to him.

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So I just think if people realize that, you know, there are there couldn't have been I always say there couldn't have only been three great minds in all of humanity.

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Bach, Beethoven, Brahms could not have been the only intelligent people. So we've really got to look for who else is out there.

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Oh, yes, definitely. Now.

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Despite these challenges, I'm sure there are plenty of positive and memorable experiences you've had while advocating for greater equality, equity in music.

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And can you share some positive and successful stories?

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Yeah, I think things like this, like your story, remembering me coming to your teacher's organization, that's awesome.

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I think something else that's been very encouraging since 2011 when I was just a student, but till now is to seeing how my students have progressed.

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And I've worked with students in different states and different places, but they're definitely back then, which wasn't really that long ago.

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You know, nobody really was bringing that type of music to master classes or to lessons.

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And nowadays I have more and more students bringing me works that they feel like represent themselves.

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Like I had one student bring me Mexican composers.

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I've had more students bring me female composers.

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And that really never happened before. I never not voluntarily.

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I mean, they would want to play Chopin or kind of the top ten.

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And so that has been awesome because then I also learn new things because I can't know every person who feels underrepresented.

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But when the students start participating and bringing their own voice, I think it's been really awesome.

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It's cool for me and it actually keeps me fresh as a professional.

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Now, what steps can institutions like conservatories and orchestras take to better support composers of color, underrepresented composers in their programming?

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Additionally, how can they create more opportunities for those musicians who are not represented to rise as conductors and producers and professors in these spaces?

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Well, that's where we need an army. We need some help.

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I think that the grassroots effort has done really well.

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Like, you know, students coming in and people, local teachers and communities has had a lot of awareness and a lot of push.

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Unfortunately, and I'd be curious even your feedback, too.

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I feel like the higher we go up in the ladder, as far as the more and more famous orchestras and more prominent institutions and arts organizations, I feel like we see it less and less and less.

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Even I was in L.A. the other week and I saw the marquee and again, it was mostly European males and maybe one female conductor, you know, no brown faces.

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And I had to even look for an American face because I mean, I'm talking about international guests coming over, so not even kind of supporting the community in which we live in here in the country.

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So I think we have a long way to go.

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I think it's going to matter what who's on your administrative team, who is your president, who's your executive director and being really particular about bringing in those voices and not calling them sort of lesser than, which I think is quite problematic.

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That lesser than is the issue, right?

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To change that, we really need to bring more people in like diversity because people really need to see it.

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Yes. And it helps your audiences, too.

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I run a chamber music series here in Memphis, Tennessee, and most chamber music series I've been to or performed at, you know, is mostly older white faces.

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Was it great? But those faces don't look like mine.

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I mean, I will be very hard pressed to see another black face in the room listening to a black performer.

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And so, I mean, my dream is that I would see all the faces in the room and they would be enjoying artists that look like them and also learning new things about people who don't look like them.

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And so I think until we have more diversity in all the spaces, you're also going to have a huge population of people who love music and art who will never come because they don't know why they should.

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It's, you know, it doesn't look like them and they don't have a background and education in music to, you know, intellectually want to go.

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So I think that it's an unfortunate marketing disadvantage to to limit who you market to.

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Absolutely. Yeah. Well, we started out with a little bit too serious.

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So I want to make this conversation light enough by, well, talking about your album and which is beautiful.

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I was listening to this album all morning long before we started this conversation, but also for several days.

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It's called Heritage and it came out in year 2020.

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So can you introduce us to your solo album, Heritage?

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Oh, yeah, sure. And I've got new albums coming out next year, too.

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So, oh, great. No, no title yet or anything like that.

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But Heritage is interesting because just as I said, I sort of started my journey as a student in 2011 and my doctorate degree.

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Heritage is kind of an exploration, I guess, of that decade of the 2010s of American music.

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I actually after I started playing them African-American spirituals and art songs,

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I realized that I didn't really know too much about any American music outside of Gershwin and Copeland.

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And again, there's got to be more than two great minds.

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And so I started digging into more American music on that album is at the time was one of my colleagues, Music and Mets.

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And so I recorded some of his permatitos and then I also did other American composers like Margaret Bonds, Charles Griffiths.

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And so, you know, now those names have become more and more familiar to us.

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But when I first started the project in the early 2010s, not that many people were playing it as often.

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I think 2020 helped sort of propel a lot of that, which is great.

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And so that's what that album is in my upcoming project is also going to be a deeper exploration of American music and other composers from the diaspora and underrepresented voices.

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I just I'm very interested in finding them and bringing them to light. And so I'm excited about that, too.

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Oh, wow. Can you get us like a little sneak peek into your new album?

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Like who would be the composers and maybe just a little hint of repertoire list?

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OK, so a very small hint is I have been playing a lot of Joseph Joubert, who probably many people they've heard me play in the last year or two have heard some of his music.

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He's a fantastic conductor, pianist and actually most known in the Broadway world.

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So being a New Yorker, he was most recently he did The Wiz and he's done Color Purple.

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And so that's really been his focus in life. And so a lot of people don't even realize that he's written concertos and orchestral works and solo piano music because he is classically trained.

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So I'm really excited about championing some of his music in many ways.

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And yeah, there'll be some other composers coming to maybe a little Shirley Thompson.

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She's a British composer, very well known there.

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I want to add some a female, of course, onto the album.

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So just people who are doing amazing things, who have award winning music that unfortunately are kind of bubbled classical community don't know.

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But they I don't even like saying they're underrepresented because I mean, I think he's Grammy nominated and all of the things, but just underrepresented in our small world.

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Right. Right. Wow. That's I can't wait.

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So when will you publish this album?

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Hopefully next summer. I'm liking this pressure, though, because I drag my feet and I have the recordings already.

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So, yeah, it should be by next summer.

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Oh, wow. Wonderful. I can't wait.

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And so so let's talk about heritage again. And then I see some, let's say, hymns or gospels like Amazing Grace, Old Time Religion, Go Tell It On The Mountain, which was arranged by Teresa Woolf.

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Yeah. And actually, that particular arrangement, I actually did some of that.

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I kind of I wanted to. So the Amazing Grace at the time, my grandmother passed away in 2017 and I had created an arrangement to play during her home going service.

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And so I actually played what's on the album at that service and I wanted to preserve it in some way the way that I had arranged it.

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And so that's actually what you hear on that album.

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Really? So growing up, have you arranged or maybe do did a little bit of improvisation?

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No. When people ask, I think I wish I had, but I hadn't.

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Actually, I just I think in the African-American tradition and culture, actually many people grow up playing in church or playing by ear.

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And I didn't. I actually grew up with more of a classical music education.

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And sometimes I feel at a disadvantage in my community because I feel like I got sort of robbed, not robbed,

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but the teachers I had didn't understand that back then.

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There weren't conversations about mixing genres or even acknowledging things outside of the classical canon.

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And so I didn't have an opportunity to learn about it in a formal setting.

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And so, no, I don't. But more and more as I age, I want to be more connected with that tradition, that oral tradition of our hymns and our spirituals and our gospel music and our jazz and all the things that we contributed to American music, really, I say,

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and how that's also been merged with classical music.

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And so actually, that's sort of my fascination with Joseph Joubert is because he does that so effortlessly.

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And I wish that I did, but I sort of live vicariously through these composers that have done this in such a great way.

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But you're doing it. You're trying it. That's amazing.

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But in a traditional way, it's not jazz jazz, but I see that I hear the classical background strongly in your arrangement.

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Exactly. Exactly.

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So for my listeners, I urge you to check out Artina's album Heritage on your go to music streaming services. And you can also purchase this album through Artina's website at artinamccain.com.

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And the link is listed in the show notes.

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And I also want to talk about your African-American folk songs, which introduced the piano students to unique African-American history and music with 24 folk songs.

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Arranged for in immediate piano solo.

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Are these arranged by you then?

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Yes, they are. All of them are arranged by me.

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See? Yes, I grew. I grew.

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That's amazing. Yeah. Can you tell?

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So I recognize the Deep River, of course, that's a very famous song and a ride on King Jesus.

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And, oh, take Nabanji. Am I saying it correctly?

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Oh, take Nabanji.

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Because that's a there's a, of course, famous transcription by Samuel Coleridge Taylor.

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Yes. Yes. And that was my inspiration. I wanted to take the Negro song that he heard in the early 20th century.

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He came to the United States and he heard all of these songs by the African-American people.

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And then he wanted to make his own arrangements of those.

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And so I sort of did my research and I thought, oh, these are some that I'm not familiar with, but I want to make them accessible for younger students,

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because his version might be a little bit hard to play.

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And so just like we have many reductions of furlies, we can have many reductions of Negro songs, too.

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So, yeah. And then so they are still, of course, available on Howe Lennar's website and your website, too.

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Right. Yes. Yes. It's a great collection.

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And Howe Lennar actually has many folk songs in their collection of folk songs from all around the world.

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They have Korean folk songs, Japanese folk songs, Irish folk songs.

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And so, again, I just love the heart behind wanting more people to be seen and really happy that I had the chance to do that for my community.

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Going back to year 2020, the Black Lives Matter movement had a significant impact across many industries, including classical music.

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And you've been a researcher advocate for composers of color and so on long before 2020.

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But how did the events of that year influence your work as an artist and advocate?

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And what lasting impact has the movement had on the representation of Black composers in classical music?

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Yeah, what a great question.

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You know, sometimes I think there's these moments in time and they're very emotional, right?

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Because especially probably for Black people, it wasn't new.

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Like most of us already knew these things were happening.

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And those were just things that were part of our daily lives.

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Like I'm sure in many communities that are struck with some type of adversity, you know, this is a part of their daily life.

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But then it becomes very public.

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So it's kind of like a group counseling session, you know, which can feel very uncomfortable with people that you don't know so well.

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But those things have to happen for larger change.

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So I'm glad that it happened for other people because it was always going to be a part of my story, regardless of if 2020 happened or not.

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So I'm happy that other people are aware.

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I'm also happy that it also brought to light the fact that so many other people were suffering from various adversities.

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I'm happy that, you know, there was sort of a tsunami of change, I think, in that year or so.

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I think the problem with sort of group change or things that happen very quickly is that, you know, then there's always some backlash.

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There's always people who are taken off guard because they didn't really even realize these things were happening.

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And then it feels sort of threatening to them, unfortunately.

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And so I think that for those of us who were doing the work, we just kept on doing it, you know, didn't really change too much for us.

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I think the people who maybe they got excited during that time and maybe have sort of fallen by the wayside now.

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I'd like to encourage you to get back on the bandwagon to keep it going that, you know, these things, when we have inclusivity, it helps all of us, not just the person that you're helping.

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You know, I mean, it's even just in our communities, you know, we help the least of those in our communities.

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It helps the whole community be better.

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And so I would encourage you, if you're not on the bandwagon, to get on the bandwagon, you know, to learn to there's so many resources out there that can help you make a change.

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You know, whether you're a teacher, you're an arts administrator, you're a professor, a student, whatever you do, whatever little part that you think you have, it's actually huge because that's what moves, you know, these mountains, these orchestras to continue to not only play three composers, but to start inviting other people and to expand their artist rosters and who can be seen and heard.

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Wow. Well said. Thank you.

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So now how can we inspire more pianists and musicians, maybe you've already answered, but students to explore their inner selves, identity and language, lifestyle and reflect that depth in their programming.

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Yeah. How can we inspire them to do that?

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Well, I think showing them. So something I've been trying to do, I hope I do well, I don't know, maybe my students will write on your podcast and say, I don't know if she does that so well or not, but it's to bring in other guests.

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So whether that's a speaker or someone playing concert or we run an international piano competition every year, even the judges were very mindful that we have representation and the adjudicators very mindful that they hear and see other repertoire in the

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studio. Because again, I can't know everything that people want to hear, but if everybody sees me doing it, then they feel welcome to do it.

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And they might hear one of their peers play something that they're like, oh, I want to play that.

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And so I feel like it's a community effort.

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And again, that's why all of our parts, even if it feels like a small thing is very important for each person to do it, because it's like, yes, just by you bringing a piece that represents you to studio class, you inspired your peer.

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Just by me performing something, I inspired somebody, me bringing in a judge that looks like them, that inspires them.

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And it's all these little things that make big changes.

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Now, I want to pivot our conversation to more of your amazing career.

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You've built such an amazing, extraordinary performing career, performing with major orchestras like the Symphony and Memphis and so on and giving solo recitals at renowned venues like Carnegie and Merkin and more.

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Now, I watched a few videos, your repertoire list ranges from Mozart, Chopin to contemporary pieces.

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It's amazing. And I watched your performance of Mozart, Fantasy and Feminist.

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Whoa, that's so hard, but your performance was just so superb.

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Now, looking back, what have been some of the defining and memorable moments that shaped your artistry, you think?

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Oh, there's I feel like there's so there's so many.

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Oh, please, you know, you're more than welcome to brag here.

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That's that's why I created this platform.

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So please do.

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OK, maybe I'll pick two and talk about two.

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OK, so I mean, again, and then I feel like, oh, I'm going to leave out one and somebody's going to say like, you didn't think that was memorable.

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But no, I think two for very special reasons.

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So I got to play at Wigmore Hall, which, you know, sort of an epic career goal to go to London and and play at such an iconic place.

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And we were playing the music of African composers.

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So not to be confused with African-American composers, but people whose heritage is directly from the continent.

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I have a great composer friend, Fred Oh, and he is doing amazing things in the Ghanaian and Nigerian communities.

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And so I feel very honored that he asked me, you know, as an African-American, not not connected to the culture of the continent,

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to play some of his music alongside one of my friends, Titus Underwood and Flautus Ebony Thomas at Wigmore Hall.

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So it was in celebration of the music from Africa, from Africa.

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And so I think why that I mean, besides it being Wigmore and an amazing concert series,

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the thing that was really powerful was that backstage in Wigmore,

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there are all these faces of famous people who have played there, you know, Menahem Pressler, Martha Argerich.

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I mean, there's so many people, conductors, composers, just everybody, anybody who walked in there.

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And I don't recall seeing probably more than a handful of brown faces of any.

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And so the fact that we were there representing music from Africa, you know, not even as an African-American,

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but music from Africa just was mind boggling to me. And just what a ceiling, you know, what a crack in the glass ceiling

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to have that concert series there. I mean, curated by Rebecca Amorti, she's a fabulous pianist.

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And she's of Ukrainian descent and also from an African country as well.

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Just those kind of things are mind boggling. I mean, yes, it's great to play at Wigmore,

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but it's more beautiful to crack a ceiling that should be open to everyone. So that's one of them.

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I think my second one, which I also think is just as cool and we were kind of chatting about this before,

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is that Solange Knowles, who many of you might know as Beyonce's sister, is also really interested in curating concerts.

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And she has a huge platform, obviously, and she's interested in multi-genre music,

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particularly the music of African-Americans and the contributions that we've had here in this country.

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And so last year I got to perform in New York at the Brooklyn Academy of Music in a show she curated about gospel music.

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But she included the music of Mary Lou Williams, who's a jazz pianist, who was a jazz pianist,

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undersung, but actually pretty well known in the jazz community. And I actually didn't know of her until I got asked to play her music.

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And so that also was just iconic, not just because it's Beyonce's sister,

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but because now we are marrying and mixing genres, which I feel like when I was a child,

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and that was my everyday language is listening to gospel music at home, but then having to sort of separate it from my classical lessons.

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You know, now those two things can be in the same space. You can have jazz, gospel, classical.

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And to me, those things are just epically beautiful.

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Wow. But you just bombed with this huge big name.

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I'm still like processing.

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Wigmore and Beyonce don't even seem to go in the same sentence, but that's what's so cool about it.

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Oh, wow. What an opportunity.

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How was it like to work with Solange? You guys plan to collaborate more?

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I hope she keeps calling me. Yes.

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I mean, Solange, I think, is one of those huge thinkers that maybe is just sort of even outside of a generation.

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Right. I mean, for so long, we've needed spaces.

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We needed to be in the spaces like, you know, Wigmore has been needing to invite other people in.

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And so, like, I think Solange's platform allows people who maybe would not be performing, you know,

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at Brooklyn Academy of Music alongside jazz and classical.

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She's making that normal. And the audience was just incredible.

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I mean, they didn't have doctorate degrees in classical music or jazz,

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but they could resonate with what we were doing because of how it was presented.

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And I think that's why it's a memorable experience, not even just because Solange is like a huge name,

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but it's just like what she's doing bridges gaps. It's a community builder.

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Wow. Yeah, that's a lot to think, take in, because I have been doing this podcast for a long, for five, close to five years.

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And I was about it's been about bridging the gap.

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And how can I reach out to more people with this classical music?

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That's how it started. Right. And so is it about watering things down to make things a little I don't know then?

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Or is it about interdisciplinary work, which is yeah, it works.

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But yeah, it's a lot to think about how it is.

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And I think and the thing I think is cool about the salon show, she did not water it down like we played Mary Lou Williams,

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Avangard Jazz Mass, and the people heard it, you know.

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And I think it was just how it was presented, you know, where it was placed in the program alongside what alongside different artists that,

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you know, people in the gospel community would know in the Clark sisters.

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And they're like, oh, I want to go see this famous jazz, you know, gospel singer.

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But at the same time, you're also going to listen to this Avangard piece by Mary Lou Williams.

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And so I think being more open about how we present concerts and maybe not being so snooty about who we share stages with will bring more people into the space.

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And, you know, people went just as wild of standing ovation for Mary Lou Williams,

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Avangard Jazz music as they did for their top 10 gospel song, which is just really unheard of.

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Before continuing this inspiring conversation with our guest, let's take a moment to hear from our valued sponsor of the month.

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Wood Support helped make this podcast possible.

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Because I'm a New Yorker, I'm very curious to know about your performance at Working Hole, especially because I also got to watch the video and one piece, one of the pieces was the Pancor Timba by Aldo Lopez.

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How do you pronounce this?

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Gavilan.

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Gavilan.

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Okay.

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Yeah, can you tell me more about that program itself and maybe the specific piece?

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Sure.

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So yes, I love you all's Merkin Hall.

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It's so, you know, it's so beautiful and also unassuming at the same time.

375
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,200
You're like, oh, this is Merkin Hall.

376
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:04,280
Okay.

377
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,360
So I've gotten to play there twice.

378
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:14,680
I will talk about the one that you saw on the Internet was affiliated with the Gateways Music Festival and the Gateways Music Festival.

379
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:23,440
Also a similar mission as my own personal, which is to uplift the voices of underrepresented people, particularly people from the African diaspora.

380
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:29,080
And so they put on a number of concerts in New York over the span of I think it was about a week.

381
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,120
And I think that was last year, it might have been 2022.

382
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,840
And they had a piano night, basically.

383
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,040
And so there were several pianists on that particular program.

384
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,880
And I performed one of the Pancor Timba.

385
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:45,960
And I love his music anyway.

386
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:56,640
And actually, if you don't know Aldo Lopez Gavilan, I think I'm pronouncing his last name correctly, but he has magnificent music and he has a piano concerto and he plays a lot himself.

387
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:01,280
So, you know, maybe you'll be fortunate to hear him live and play his own music.

388
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:06,920
But during the pandemic, I actually reached out to him because I'd been sort of dabbling with it.

389
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,800
And I'm very interested in the Afro-Cuban music.

390
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,760
And so I asked him just about the rhythms and can you add percussion?

391
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,400
And so I've played it many times, that time not with percussion.

392
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:29,480
But it was it's just always fun to get to talk to someone who's alive about their music and hopefully represent it well in a public space like that.

393
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:42,200
So, you know, the combination of the Gateways Music Festival allowing us to be in that space and to share music with your community was also so fun and just so memorable.

394
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:49,520
Wonderful. Now, I also saw your performance of Debussy's Menstrual.

395
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,000
Yes.

396
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,200
Hear me out. I know what's coming.

397
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:02,000
I'm sure you know what's coming. But the performance itself was just so fantastic.

398
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:10,320
Your interpretation, the rhythm. Oh, that just so defined and oh, amazing.

399
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:18,360
But, you know, that piece is quite controversial because I'm seeing this on the Internet like,

400
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:25,560
oh, we need to band the speeds all together from all the competitions and you should never teach your students this and that.

401
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,320
So, here you are. You're performing that piece.

402
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:40,440
And also, and also you've because it is it has such a dark context to it and historical background to it, obviously.

403
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:45,080
But Menstrual is not from the United States originally.

404
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,360
It's all the way back in Europe.

405
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:56,960
And it didn't have any of those dark connotation to it, but then 1800s, of course, in the United States, it's a blackface and so on.

406
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,920
And then Debussy obviously saw it, right?

407
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:05,080
And so that but so why did you perform this?

408
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:06,240
Why you wanted to be here?

409
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:08,280
You did such a great job with the history.

410
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,440
I'm going to have to take that sound bite and play it in concerts now.

411
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,400
Like beautifully done.

412
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,720
Yeah, well, I think, unfortunately, a lot of people don't know the history as well as you do.

413
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:26,280
And I actually prefaced my performance basically with exactly what you just said is that, you know, it was a medieval art form, but it got real dark later.

414
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:33,080
OK. And it was actually quite prominent at the time that Debussy was writing both in Europe and America.

415
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:38,920
And I think people don't realize that this is an international problem, not just an American problem.

416
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:48,680
And so, yeah, well, at the time, I mean, hopefully not too many people are doing blackface anymore unless it's in historical context.

417
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,760
So I do preface all of that before I perform it.

418
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:57,120
And then sometimes I perform it in sort of a more grotesque way than others.

419
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:07,080
But just trying to bring out the fact that despite it sounding like this upbeat, happy, joyful thing, you know, there's a very dark side of minstrelsy.

420
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:16,920
And how they had to be feeling, but had just become accustomed to and assimilated to, you know, this is their place in life at this time in this historical period.

421
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:22,360
So I believe that we can keep these pieces. We don't need to try to erase history.

422
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:27,640
History is what happened. It's what it is. It's how we grow. We don't have to be ashamed of it.

423
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,320
We just need to do better. I mean, you can't do better if you didn't know what happened.

424
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:36,640
So I think that we actually need to keep these pieces in the canon and we need to talk about them.

425
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:45,720
Because I don't think a lot of people realize how connected history is to composition and what people are composing at the time.

426
00:49:45,720 --> 00:49:51,280
Like, sure, some composers wrote a programmatic music that had nothing to do with their surroundings.

427
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:56,840
But I don't think most of us function like that. Most of our art is an outpouring of our society.

428
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:01,960
And so we have to know what was happening and acknowledge it in order to grow as artists.

429
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:17,040
So thank you, Debussy, for writing minstrels so that we actually have documentation from someone that people think of as top ten composer to remind us of how ugly it is and how we need to do better.

430
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:22,960
Wow. Well said. Absolutely. That makes classical music timeless, right?

431
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:32,960
And relevant.

432
00:50:52,960 --> 00:51:04,640
Look up the Gateways Music Festival. Actually, it was birthed at the Eastman School of Music.

433
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:10,360
Some people don't know that. So it's a big thing in Rochester. They actually have a chamber music series in the fall.

434
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:15,000
And their organization is just growing. Last year, we actually got to go to Chicago.

435
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,640
So they're sort of taking the Gateways Music Festival on the road.

436
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:35,680
And I think anybody who's doing this type of work, the more we can bring it to other communities, touring, if you have that kind of budget, it just makes it more accessible to everyone versus like, oh, you can only see this in New York or London or some fancy place.

437
00:51:35,680 --> 00:52:03,200
Like, no, it's coming to your backyard. And I think that's important for all of us to have the opportunity to see, but also to encourage us to continue with whatever community you're meant to serve.

438
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:12,800
I want to know your beginning a little bit. So could you share how your journey as a pianist began? What initially sparked your passion for music?

439
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:18,800
Yeah, so I like to start this story with, you know, my mother didn't like my singing. And so she put me in piano lessons.

440
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:27,480
I was a very chatty child, which pays very well into my career now, doing lots of speaking engagements.

441
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:35,720
But, you know, none of my parents did not play music, actually. My grandmother had a piano and she played some music.

442
00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:45,000
She taught a little bit and she also played at her church. And so I, you know, outside of her, I didn't really grow up with like in a musical family.

443
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:49,400
I mean, they appreciate music, but it wasn't what anybody did.

444
00:52:49,400 --> 00:53:00,920
And so I started kind of at the age of nine old. And then I continued. My dad actually got a job in Orlando, Florida.

445
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:06,960
And so I had the opportunity to go to a performing arts magnet high school, Dr. Phillips High School.

446
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:15,200
And that was really, I think, a magical moment in time, not only because I got to go to performing arts high school,

447
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:21,040
but because the students at that time who were there, they actually now are famous.

448
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:30,800
Like there's like a couple of famous comedians, like one of the Aladdins, the Genie was from my high school and his face is on billboards on Broadway.

449
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:36,640
I think he only recently stopped that role. But a lot of them are now very successful.

450
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:44,880
And so you can only imagine, you know, as a teenager, having all these people who have that kind of energy and passion for their art being in one place.

451
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:52,400
So it was very just a one of a kind thing. One of the dancers ended up on Michael Jackson's last tour.

452
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,600
So, I mean, just things like that. Those are the people I was around.

453
00:53:55,600 --> 00:54:02,720
And so that sort of just fed my love for my art and my music to be around people like that.

454
00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:09,240
And it just kind of kept going from there. I just kind of bit the bug and I never stopped at age 14.

455
00:54:09,240 --> 00:54:19,720
Then you went on to study music seriously, like, you know, of course, college and Southern Methodist University and the Masters from the Cleveland Institute of Music.

456
00:54:19,720 --> 00:54:24,920
And also you have a doctoral degree from University of Texas at Austin.

457
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:31,480
So how did you each of these institutions shape you as a pianist and influenced your approach to music?

458
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:35,400
Were there any particular mentors who helped you along the way?

459
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:42,120
Yes, well, all of my teachers, I love all of them. I studied with Carol Leone at Southern Methodist University.

460
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:46,400
She's wonderful. Catherine Brown at CIM and then Anton Nell at UT Austin.

461
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,200
So all of them played huge parts in my life.

462
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:55,160
And even I want to give a shout out to Martha Hilley, even though I wasn't like a direct student of hers,

463
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:59,960
I felt like she was a great mentor to me during my time at UT Austin.

464
00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:05,080
And so I kind of feel like the institutions influence you in other different ways.

465
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:09,640
I actually always wanted to go to different types of institutions.

466
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:15,280
So I went to private school, I went to a public school and I went to a conservatory.

467
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,480
And all of those things offer different things in life.

468
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:32,240
At a public school, you've got sports and other career fields and interdisciplinary things you can do that you don't have at a conservatory, a conservatory you practice.

469
00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:35,800
And at a private institution, there's benefits of going there, too.

470
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:41,760
And so I feel like experiences for artists and students is paramount.

471
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:46,880
I think that's what we bring to our art. And so practicing is not enough.

472
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,680
You want to in some way enrich your life.

473
00:55:49,680 --> 00:56:01,720
And so I'm very thankful to be in three totally different cities and locations and types of schools to benefit who I would later become as an artist.

474
00:56:01,720 --> 00:56:10,800
Wow. Because of this background and you're also connecting that to your role as a speaker,

475
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:22,040
you bring your personal story not only through music, but as a musician through, let's say, screen or through interviews.

476
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:26,000
Yeah. So I want to know more about that part of you.

477
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:37,120
And one thing I saw was the PBS documentary and then you were selected as the series of Road Trip Nation degree of impact,

478
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:43,120
which highlights the professionals with doctoral degrees, making the real world difference and so on.

479
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:53,440
So, yeah, I mean, I feel like, you know, that chatty child is finally getting her stage of being able to speak to other people

480
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:59,280
and to share my story with other people. So I'm very grateful for that opportunity.

481
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:06,120
That the PBS documentary was very interesting. So, again, that was an interdisciplinary event.

482
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:15,840
It wasn't just musicians. Basically, the road trippers, as they called them, were people who wanted a terminal degree and whatever interest they had.

483
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:24,560
And so they started literally on the West Coast and drove across the United States interviewing various professionals

484
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:31,400
who had terminal degrees in their area of expertise. And just what was that like for them? What was that story?

485
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:40,840
Why did they want a terminal degree? I think, especially in music, a lot of people get terminal degrees and they don't really know why they're getting them or what they're going to do with them.

486
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:45,160
And so I think the series was really cool. And I mean, it has so many episodes.

487
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:55,960
I'm not sure if they are still producing episodes, but I think you should go down a rabbit hole and just look at some of the fantastic work they were doing in those interviews.

488
00:57:55,960 --> 00:58:01,800
They're very, very inspiring for anybody, really, not just musicians.

489
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:11,120
But I can sense that to be in front of people and talk about your career and self, and that takes courage.

490
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:18,000
And you really have to be true to your crafts and identity.

491
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:25,240
You don't have to say everything to the rest of the world, but you want to be synchronized with what you do. Right?

492
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:34,560
Right. Yeah. And I really see that through your artistry, whether that is the speaking or performing, the authenticity,

493
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:45,880
because that's one of the key words of the season, authenticity and joy, because in the end, authenticity, I think, brings joy to the people.

494
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:58,240
Yeah, I've never, you know, thank you. You enlightened me because I've never really thought about what I've been doing as being so synchronized with who I am, like both as an artist, a teacher, a speaker.

495
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:02,040
So you just brought something to me. I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess I do do that, don't I?

496
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:10,520
I think that's the only way to live, you know, and the purposes that God gives for us is just like you should just exude that it's the easiest just to be yourself, really.

497
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:20,440
I mean, and unfortunately, I think in our craft, some were a lot of people are striving to be the next competition winner or the next.

498
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:26,840
Argo edge or whatever, and there's no way that you're going to do that because you need to just be yourself.

499
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:36,120
And so once I sort of became free of the mindset that I needed to fit on this very narrow path of becoming X, Y or Z, that's been presented to me,

500
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:44,640
I felt incredibly free and completely easy to be authentic because there is no one else for me to be.

501
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:49,040
Yeah, but you know, that journey is not easy to be that right.

502
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:59,480
And then also being authentic, authentic life is to me is a privilege to because some cultures won't allow you or some right in certain contexts.

503
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:07,640
So anyway, then I also saw the video of I think inter portion of the video from the sideways,

504
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:11,480
which is a podcast by the National Conference on keyboard pedagogy.

505
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:21,560
And you shared your emotional journey of overcoming negativity you experienced during your teenage years and early 20s in relation to the piano.

506
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:27,760
Unfortunately, and then I, you know, I when I heard that I can so relate to.

507
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:37,520
And but despite the struggles you held on to the desire to play the piano and then try to really seek for this meaningful connection to piano.

508
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:46,800
So tell me more about this and how you came to this rediscovery of Joy of Piano Play.

509
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,000
Yeah, well, I want to talk about that podcast.

510
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:55,960
So that podcast sideways is by Matthew's side, and it's actually a BBC podcast.

511
01:00:55,960 --> 01:01:02,560
And I got one of the BBC as you know, I forget like all these cool things that have happened sometimes.

512
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:07,840
And so I actually had a performance in London at the Barbican Center, also a fantastic space.

513
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:12,560
I mean, I chose a wig more, but I could have chosen that one was also very memorable.

514
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:16,760
And I'm trying to think because I wasn't it wasn't about wellness.

515
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:20,840
It was we were actually playing some concert by African-American women.

516
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:24,400
But somehow there was a reporter in the audience.

517
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:28,480
And I think she saw it in my bio that I hadn't played for six years.

518
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:30,120
And that's what grabbed her.

519
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:35,880
And so she was from the BBC and she wanted to do this interview that landed on that sideways episode.

520
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:39,680
So highly recommend you all to listen to that in full.

521
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:51,000
But that was about sort of how does one come from not playing it sort of at the most people think the prime in the 20s, you know, from age 23 to 29.

522
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:55,320
I mean, that's what you're supposed to be doing competitions and on tour and all these things.

523
01:01:55,320 --> 01:02:01,160
And I was just sitting at home on my futon and to playing at Wigmore, playing at Barbican.

524
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:06,000
And so, I mean, for me, I'm a person of faith and it's a spiritual journey as well.

525
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:08,360
And just like trusting God and what he asked for me.

526
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:17,320
But it was also like having a great community, having people who then tell me to quit and go do something that I wasn't really supposed to be doing.

527
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:22,440
It was looking for other opportunities in music that I could do without having to play.

528
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:26,600
So I taught a lot during that time. I had 40 students that.

529
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:33,640
And so I feel very connected to the independent piano teacher community, even though I don't do that anymore as a full time job.

530
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:36,240
I did. And that was all I could do. I could not play.

531
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:46,080
I could not even find, you know, sort of a bigger job teaching because I could not apply for university jobs because I didn't have that degree.

532
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:47,680
I didn't have the experience.

533
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:57,080
And so that has been a journey for me to kind of overcome mentally therapy, all of the things so that one can overcome.

534
01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:01,560
And then in the thirties, which most people would think your career is already established.

535
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:06,640
That's when I started as a performer. Yes.

536
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:16,360
You've mentioned that your relationship with the piano no longer feels like a vocation, but rather an opportunity to connect with the human soul.

537
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:21,680
That was beautiful. And how does this philosophy influence your approach to music making today?

538
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,200
Both performance and teaching. Yeah.

539
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:28,960
Well, I mean, it's so epic. Again, I think kind of goes back to faith for me.

540
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:34,120
It's like a calling like you cannot do you cannot not do what you're supposed to be on the planet to do.

541
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:37,320
You need to do that. You know, and that and I again, I agree with you.

542
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:45,280
It is definitely a journey. Doesn't feel great in the 20s when you're sitting on your futon and you're watching people win X, Y and Z competition.

543
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:55,000
And in your opinion or what you've been trained to think is that, you know, if I don't do that now at this time in my life, I'm a failure or I'm just not going to make it.

544
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:59,120
And I'm going to need to do something else. It takes a lot to persevere.

545
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:03,400
I think that would be the word for me to give to someone who's struggling like that.

546
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:13,080
But once you can get through that period of your time of struggle and please do get the community that you need to encourage you to go on.

547
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:23,480
I just feel like the other side is such a gift and a privilege to be able to share that with someone else, not just for myself, but because it encourages other people.

548
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:26,480
I mean, we're all going to go through various things in life.

549
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:31,200
And sometimes we don't even know who we're encouraging when we're just doing our thing.

550
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:37,000
I've got mentors, actually Joseph Joubert, who now I have the privilege of playing his music.

551
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:41,800
He was somebody that I was fangirling from a distance for a long time.

552
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:45,720
I didn't know him. I would watch stuff that he did online.

553
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:47,160
I knew of his music.

554
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:54,280
And so I think if you can just think that you might be encouraging somebody that you don't even know that's watching you from a distance,

555
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:59,920
just to have the stamina to keep going is really important.

556
01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:02,400
Just don't give up.

557
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:06,560
But thank you for being really honest about the time period.

558
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:12,440
It's not easy to talk about those difficult moments.

559
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:24,480
And so that's why what I mean by authenticity, where people tend to hide things or try to portrait themselves as someone that is bigger than yourself.

560
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:26,840
Right. But that's not the case.

561
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:33,560
So now that challenging period, is that connected to your injury or something else?

562
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:35,640
Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely from my injury.

563
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:40,720
It was a time period that I could not play and I was seeking different solutions.

564
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:44,760
But everything would lead to a little bit better, but not good enough.

565
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:55,520
So, yeah, I mean, I think as musicians, fortunately, unfortunately, sometimes people strongly identify their self-worth with their job or what they do.

566
01:05:55,520 --> 01:06:01,480
And so when you are severed from what you do, it's like you lost your entire self.

567
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:09,360
But I wish it wasn't the case, but I'm sure many people, it's like I'm a conductor, I'm a pianist, I'm a this.

568
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:11,240
And we're so much bigger than that.

569
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:18,680
And that's, I think, the human soul aspect of like, no, I use my art to portray who I am.

570
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:22,040
But at that time in the 20s, I was not so spiritually enlightened.

571
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:25,840
And so I definitely thought of myself as I am a pianist.

572
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:30,360
And so to not be a pianist is like a death.

573
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:34,200
But you overcome and you are able to share the story.

574
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:36,320
That's the true strength.

575
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:38,720
I admire that. Yeah.

576
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:51,760
So let's go back to that injury part, not to, you know, focus on the negativity, but you're using that experience to really help others.

577
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:56,880
So I'm curious to know about this muscle activation technique.

578
01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:58,960
Yeah. Yeah.

579
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:11,440
Yeah. So when I went to my my doctor degree in Austin, I was connected through a woman at my church to this wonderful practice,

580
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,000
which now their name is the Continuum Method.

581
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:16,240
And it was another alternative technique.

582
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:23,680
And, you know, honestly, I had been through so many alternative techniques because this is getting to the end of that about five year period.

583
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:27,960
And I was like, I don't want another, you know, I had done Alexander.

584
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:32,800
I had done massage. I mean, I love all and all of you who, you know, champion those things.

585
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:36,320
God bless you. And they did what they needed to do for me.

586
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:38,920
But I didn't experience a full healing.

587
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:45,200
And so I had become very apathetic and just like, I'm really going to have to choose to do something else anyway.

588
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:48,760
So I don't really want to listen to you right now.

589
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:54,400
But I did. I heard her and I followed through and I got connected with this modality.

590
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:56,960
And I mean, it really changed my life.

591
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:02,960
I mean, I could not play to, you know, doing all the things I do right now, which is just miraculous.

592
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,680
And so it's called the Continuum Method.

593
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:08,640
I'm happy to send the link that you can put in the show notes.

594
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:13,960
I think they do a much better job than I ever will do at explaining the science.

595
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:17,280
So I'm not going to try. They have a wonderful website.

596
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:20,640
It's basically a manual technique is done on a massage table.

597
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:30,600
But they believe in turning nerve endings back on that have been shut off for any number of reasons related to trauma and accident, you know, overuse.

598
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:32,800
I mean, it could be many different things.

599
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:35,040
But I have never I'm a human.

600
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:37,440
So, of course, I hurt myself.

601
01:08:37,440 --> 01:08:48,120
But I have never gone back to a period in life where I could not play for an extended long period of time, as in more than like two weeks since doing this modality.

602
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:50,120
So to me, it's just a godsend.

603
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:53,800
Wow. Yeah, I'm curious to know more about that.

604
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:56,760
So what's the name of the site again?

605
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:58,880
Oh, the Continuum Method.

606
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:00,680
The Continuum Method.

607
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:02,400
OK, I will send you the link.

608
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:05,680
Oh, that would be great.

609
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:18,800
You have re-engineered your own playing to prioritize physical ease, technical efficiency, healing, which has transformed your probably teaching approach to.

610
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:25,360
Right. And so how has this holistic approach to wellness impacted your studio, your teaching?

611
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:31,040
Yeah, that's huge. Well, I think I think it still probably happens now, too.

612
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:36,320
But particularly when I was a student, there's sort of a mentality of no pain, no gain.

613
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:44,000
And I think knowing what's good challenge, you know, because we do need to be challenged and that does feel uncomfortable at times.

614
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:47,080
But pain can be detrimental.

615
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:50,640
And so knowing where that line is, that's a very difficult line.

616
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:52,400
And, you know, you have to figure it out for yourself.

617
01:09:52,400 --> 01:10:03,680
What's a good push versus something that's detrimental to you hurt me because I think especially when I was in conservatory settings, which is practice, practice, practice, you know, stay there all day.

618
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:06,520
I just don't have the body to do that.

619
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:11,360
Some people do. And that's why I say that it has to be individualized.

620
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:15,800
Some people can be linebackers and they can take hits on a field.

621
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:20,920
And some people cannot. And so I think I just don't have the muscular build.

622
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:30,160
And later, as I age, I kind of realize, you know, genetically that there were other people in my family sort of suffering from long term injury problems.

623
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:32,600
I never really put that together when I was young.

624
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:36,680
And so some people actually cannot practice eight hours a day or 10 hours a day.

625
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:39,800
They just can't do it. They just don't have the stamina for it.

626
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:52,440
It doesn't make them lesser musician, but they're not going to be the same musician as maybe somebody who's a horse and can go out and play Dante and listen not in all the Rachmaninoff concertos in one day.

627
01:10:52,440 --> 01:11:00,000
And so I think sort of separating myself, my physical stature from that, that was actually very green to me.

628
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:06,720
Yeah. So I think because I was in that atmosphere then where it's kind of like promoted and I think maybe even still today,

629
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:11,200
sort of with the competition mentality that everybody needs to be a linebacker.

630
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:18,320
You know, once I realized that we don't all need to do that, that might mean that you don't win the competition because you don't have that kind of stamina.

631
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:20,520
But it doesn't mean that you can't play virtuosically.

632
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:22,560
It just means you can't do it for that amount of time.

633
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:35,880
And so I think that that's helped me so much as a teacher because it just one, it freed me from that being the only purpose for us as pianists is sort of to train a competition winner

634
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:42,480
and also to be that. But it also opened me up to, you know, people will have different careers in music.

635
01:11:42,480 --> 01:11:48,560
Some will be teachers, some will be church musicians, some will be composers, some will work with kids.

636
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:55,440
And those are all valuable. And I think previously, I only thought one thing was valuable, unfortunately.

637
01:11:55,440 --> 01:12:05,320
And I think that it might still be promoted in many places today where there's only sort of one value you can have as a pianist or musician and nothing else is.

638
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:13,680
So as a teacher, I hope anyway that my students feel like, you know, whatever their career path is that they want to follow, I support it.

639
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:21,280
And I will adjust my teaching method to what's reasonable for their skill set and gifting.

640
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:33,520
Related to the topic. So beyond instrumental skills, you aim to teach broader life skills such as discipline, problem solving and compassion.

641
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:41,280
So how do you integrate these lessons into your teaching? Why are they so important?

642
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:50,040
Yes, so I think sort of, as I mentioned before, as I think experiences are very important and, you know, exposing yourself to things.

643
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:58,800
And so I teach a chamber music class and we play, but I also make them do cultural enrichment.

644
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:05,480
So they have to do things besides going to a concert because many of them naturally go to concerts as musicians.

645
01:13:05,480 --> 01:13:16,160
So go to a museum, go to a park in town, go to a festival, anything, really anything that sparks your interest so that you can broaden your horizon.

646
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:24,480
And something that I've learned, actually, I've been sort of surprised by it's that many of the students had never even stepped off the campus.

647
01:13:24,480 --> 01:13:32,360
Like they had never been to a local museum. I mean, Memphis is well known for the Civil Rights Museum.

648
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:39,200
It's a fantastic museum, one of the top in the country. They didn't even they never even been there.

649
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:48,040
So it's unfortunate that you could live in a place and not even know the things that are the places most famous for even just going to get some barbecue.

650
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:51,120
You know, in Memphis, if you eat meat, then that's a huge thing.

651
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:58,400
And so all of those things, I think, bring cultural awareness, right, because you're learning about the people around you and the history of the people around you.

652
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:01,800
And then you can bring that to your music.

653
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:09,640
Just the other day, I had one of my younger students who's 13 tell me that she went on a field trip to Washington, D.C.

654
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:14,200
And she's she's actually Asian person of Taiwanese, Japanese descent.

655
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:17,240
And her school, they took her to the African-American Museum.

656
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:23,360
I was like, oh, really? And I mean, she's volunteering this information for me. I did not pull it out of her.

657
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:25,600
She's playing a piece by William Grant Still.

658
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:41,840
And she said, I went to the music floor at the museum and I saw William Grant Still and her face lit up and she just felt like more connected to his music because she had learned something about it in a museum at age 13.

659
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:50,840
And so I think, you know, little things like that, we don't realize how far they go into just understanding other people who are not like us.

660
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:55,320
Your students are very fortunate to have you as a mentor and teacher.

661
01:14:55,320 --> 01:15:03,840
Yeah. Overall, the wellness of learning, the wellness of being an artist to learn that from you.

662
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:06,200
Isn't our guest so inspiring?

663
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:13,080
I'm sure you're enjoying and learning from every bit of this episode. So I need to ask you two things.

664
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:19,520
First, hit that like button on YouTube or subscribe if you're listening on your go to podcast platform.

665
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:31,280
Then follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn and TikTok at The Piano Pod for behind the scenes content, episode updates and more.

666
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:39,400
Stay connected and inspired to celebrate the past, present and future of classical music.

667
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:46,960
So looking ahead, how do you envision the future of classical music in terms of diversity, inclusion and wellness?

668
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:50,200
Well, I think something big is to not get distracted.

669
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:56,680
So, you know, pre 2020, you know, there are people doing this work and maybe it was just like, oh, it's that thing they do.

670
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:59,320
Nobody cared. Nothing was triggering.

671
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:02,440
Nobody cared about using the I words or diversity.

672
01:16:02,440 --> 01:16:07,040
And I mean, just honestly, it really wasn't a thing.

673
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:16,400
But suddenly, unfortunately, it's become more of a mainstream politicized thing that I think is discouraging some.

674
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:20,520
Whereas others who've been in the work that, you know, the work they're called to do, they're going to do.

675
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,360
It doesn't matter. It might become more difficult.

676
01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:25,920
Maybe it'll be celebrated. Who knows?

677
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:30,400
But I just think not to get distracted if it's something that intrigues you.

678
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:34,680
It benefits in so many ways, you know, just like my story of my 13 year old student.

679
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:40,120
I didn't ask her to tell me that, you know, she just felt like she could and and that it enriched her life in some way.

680
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:43,360
And she had also gone to many other museums in D.C.

681
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:50,920
And and so I just think it's such an opportunity for us to learn about other people, especially the earlier the age, the better.

682
01:16:50,920 --> 01:17:00,680
So that you don't grow up and sort of become disillusioned by every wind that blows in society that tells you you should think a different way.

683
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:05,280
Well, thank you. Now, another question would be, what are your thoughts on

684
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:12,120
maintaining the relevance of classical music and ensuring the thriving of the industry in this country, especially?

685
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:18,520
Oh, well, I think being more open to sharing the space, you know, I think actually what Solange knows,

686
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:23,920
not just a name drop, but I mean, playing avant garde music and gospel and jazz.

687
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:29,080
And she also does like some R&B stuff in one weekend with all kinds of different artists.

688
01:17:29,080 --> 01:17:38,640
Like nobody really does that. And so I think a lot in classical music, we're very siloed and we sort of worship the spaces in the way we presented.

689
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:44,960
And I think that opening up the space and making it more inclusive, maybe even genre inclusive,

690
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:59,560
to bring in people who maybe they don't listen to classical music, but they like some other type of music to come and to experience it is really important for us to thrive and to bring more people into the space.

691
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:07,640
Absolutely. Now, what is your thought on our duty or gift as classical musicians to society?

692
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:17,400
Yeah, again, I think staying in your lane, you know, we all have something that we're called to do whatever that is teaching, playing, performing, mentoring.

693
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:22,280
Don't get distracted by something somebody else is doing and say, oh, I wish I could do that.

694
01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:26,320
You know, like I had to come to terms with I'm not a linebacker.

695
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:31,960
You're not going to see me play all Beethoven one day or Rachmaninoff.

696
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:35,480
You might see me play one, you know, but not all.

697
01:18:35,480 --> 01:18:37,040
And we've got to be OK with that.

698
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:43,520
And so whatever you can bring, it is important and is very valuable to those who will see you.

699
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:50,520
I think being encouraged and being inspired is a cumulative effort.

700
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:52,920
It's not just one person that inspires us all.

701
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:57,520
It's many. And so whatever it is you have to do, just say you need to do that.

702
01:18:57,520 --> 01:19:02,240
But to find that path, the journey is not easy.

703
01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:07,600
But the if you take the challenge, the outcome is beautiful.

704
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:09,440
Right. Oh, so beautiful.

705
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:16,120
And you may not ever hear the stories of those that you've influenced, but they're there for sure.

706
01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:20,360
So I want to know your future.

707
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:22,560
Nobody knows the future.

708
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:24,760
I don't know.

709
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:28,360
I mean, like upcoming projects and also.

710
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:30,880
Let's start with this. What does the rest of that?

711
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:36,000
This current season, 24, 25 season look like for you?

712
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:45,760
Yeah, well, lots of exciting things, something I'm particularly proud of that I do in the community that I live in is I curate a chamber music

713
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:48,800
series that's called the Mahogany Chamber Series.

714
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:53,360
And it's in its fifth year minus the covid years.

715
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:59,920
We got a little distracted, but then we came back and we have a new collaboration with Prism Ensemble.

716
01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:04,880
It's a nonprofit in town just to bring this music to more people.

717
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:13,080
And the title Mahogany, it came from the idea that that's what we wanted the series to look like, as in different shades of people,

718
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:20,880
different composers. And so that that next program is January 12th for people who live in the mid south or in the Memphis area.

719
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:28,040
Super excited about that. It'll celebrate the life and work of MLK with a small ensemble,

720
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:31,640
fabulous vocalist. I'll be on the program as well.

721
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:39,800
And so that series makes me very happy. The rest of this year, just next week, I'm going to be playing with Jackson Symphony in Tennessee,

722
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:46,760
doing the Florence Price Concerto and by my friend Fred O., which I mentioned before with the Wigmore performance.

723
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:52,400
I'll be doing his dance tribute for orchestra. And so those are kind of some big things.

724
01:20:52,400 --> 01:21:00,640
There's many other concerts that I can barely remember that are on my website, ArtinaMcCain.com, but I have many performances coming.

725
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:04,960
So if I'm coming your way, you heard this podcast. I'd love to meet you.

726
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:11,120
Oh, yes. And then you're on Instagram as well at ArtinaMcCain, right? So people can follow you.

727
01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:19,800
Wonderful. Yes. Now, how do you see your career in three to five years?

728
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:25,840
I don't know. I hope I see it as flexible. I always want to be relevant to what's going on.

729
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:31,840
I think, as you mentioned, that authenticity life changes and that means we have to change with it.

730
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:38,280
And so I hope that I'm flexible enough to do that, whatever that looks like and who I'm supposed to be reaching.

731
01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:43,720
Maybe I'm speaking more, playing more, teaching more or some combination of those things.

732
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:50,000
But I just want what I do to be relevant to the community that I've been called to influence.

733
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:53,760
So I think relevant would be what I see it as.

734
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:59,440
Beautiful. Any last thought before we go to the rapid fire?

735
01:21:59,440 --> 01:22:05,040
Oh, oh, my gosh. Well, this has been wonderful. Thank you for such thought provoking questions.

736
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:12,480
I mean, I'm like, oh, I'm authentic and synchronized. I should put that in my video.

737
01:22:12,480 --> 01:22:16,600
Absolutely. No, no, just thank you for such a thought provoking conversation.

738
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:26,200
I hope again that the people whose ears it lands on, that they have ears to hear what's for them and to take that into spaces where they have influence.

739
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:33,240
Well, thank you. It's a really privilege to speak with you, to have this meaningful conversations.

740
01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:44,440
So for our listeners, please go to Artina McCain dot com to learn more about Dr. McCain's solo and chamber career and her concert updates.

741
01:22:44,440 --> 01:22:51,280
You can also watch some of her solo and collaborative performances on her YouTube channel at Artina McCain.

742
01:22:51,280 --> 01:23:01,560
And you can also, of course, listen to her solo album, Heritage and other albums as well on all major streaming services.

743
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:04,200
And all the links are listed in the show notes.

744
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:08,440
So this has been such a fun, inspiring conversation, Artina.

745
01:23:08,440 --> 01:23:14,920
But before I let you go, we have one more thing to do, which is called the piano, but rapid fire questions.

746
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:19,320
This is the part of the show where I get to ask fun questions to each guest.

747
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:27,520
Now, here's a little twist. As silly as these questions may sound, your answers may reveal who you truly are.

748
01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:29,280
So ready or not. OK.

749
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:36,760
I want you to answer each question with the shortest responses possible.

750
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:40,120
No explanation is needed.

751
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:42,640
All right. So let's start. Are you ready?

752
01:23:42,640 --> 01:23:46,320
Yes. OK.

753
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:50,080
Number one, what is your comfort food?

754
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:51,320
Fried chicken.

755
01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:56,520
Oh, yes. Great. Any particular brand that you like?

756
01:23:56,520 --> 01:24:01,800
I like Memphis's famous brand Gus's. That's got to be a favorite.

757
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:07,400
Wow. Wow. I need to go visit Memphis now and try it. Yeah. Right.

758
01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:10,160
How do you like your coffee in the morning?

759
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:15,320
I don't like coffee. Really?

760
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:19,120
You know what? You're a tea drinker. I know. I saw it in your bio.

761
01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:22,520
Yeah. So what what kind of tea do you like? Which?

762
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:27,160
Oh, so many. But a nice oolong is great.

763
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:30,280
Cats or dogs? Neither.

764
01:24:30,280 --> 01:24:34,200
Oh, OK. That's the first time.

765
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:38,680
You're learning a lot about me, aren't we? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

766
01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:42,440
Sunrise or sunset? Sunset.

767
01:24:42,440 --> 01:24:45,680
Summer or winter? Summer.

768
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:48,200
Now, level two. OK.

769
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:53,880
What skill have you always wanted to learn but haven't had a chance to?

770
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:58,080
Languages. Any particular one?

771
01:24:58,080 --> 01:25:00,960
I've always wanted to be more fluent in Spanish.

772
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:04,000
I speak a little, but not enough.

773
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:07,240
All right. What is your word of words to live by?

774
01:25:07,240 --> 01:25:11,200
Persevere. Persevere. Oh, beautiful.

775
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:17,600
What is the most important quality you look for in other people?

776
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:21,680
Authenticity. Now, next one is a little difficult.

777
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:28,600
Name three people, three people who inspire you, living or dead?

778
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:33,280
Oh, oh, no.

779
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:38,400
I'll do living only because they're top of mind at the moment.

780
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:41,400
Joseph Joubert.

781
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:45,720
Oh, my, oh, my.

782
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:48,200
Shirley Thompson.

783
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:53,160
And we'll say my mother.

784
01:25:53,160 --> 01:25:59,600
Beautiful. Name one piece in your current playlist.

785
01:25:59,600 --> 01:26:04,240
OK, Mary Lou Williams, A Fungus Among Us.

786
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:07,480
OK, oh, wow, I need to list that in the playlist. Wow.

787
01:26:07,480 --> 01:26:09,520
OK, I will check that out.

788
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:12,600
Now, last question. Fill in the blank.

789
01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:18,160
Music is blank. Music is.

790
01:26:18,160 --> 01:26:24,320
Refreshing. Oh, that's the first time I hear that everybody says different things,

791
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:28,520
but yeah, refreshing. Wow. Beautiful.

792
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:31,880
Thank you. So that wraps up this episode of the piano.

793
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:35,080
Thank you, Artina, once again.

794
01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:41,000
Thank you for joining us and sharing your stories, insights and expertise

795
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:42,960
once again to a wonderful audience.

796
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:48,880
You can learn more about Artina and her amazing work through her website at ArtinaMcCain.com.

797
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:52,720
Thank you to our wonderful fans or listeners for tuning in today.

798
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:57,960
And if you enjoyed today's episode, please rate, review it on your go to podcast platform.

799
01:26:57,960 --> 01:27:02,120
Please remember to hit the thumbs up button to subscribe to my channel.

800
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:06,760
If you are watching this episode, follow the piano part on social media to get the latest piano

801
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:10,480
news via Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and LinkedIn.

802
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:13,400
I will see you for the next episode of the piano part.

803
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:41,400
Bye, everyone. Thank you, Artina, once again.