Welcome to the season finale of the PianoPod.
I am your host, Yukimi Song.
Hey, TPP friends.
Thanks so much for sticking with us this season.
It's been an incredible ride
and we couldn't have done it
without your support and listenership.
We're especially grateful for those who recommended guests
and donated through the show.
The entire team at the PianoPod appreciates
every single one of you for tuning in
and being so supportive throughout the season.
To wrap up season four and show our appreciation,
we are bringing back a remarkable guest,
Dr. John Skidmore,
the renowned performance psychologist and author.
Many of you might remember him
from our very first episode back in September, 2020.
It feels like the perfect way to close this chapter,
especially considering how this all started.
So I've wanted to start a piano-related podcast
since my graduate school days at NYU in 2008.
One of my professors suggested it,
but it wasn't until the COVID lockdown
that I finally took the plunge.
Well, during that difficult time,
my piano students began experiencing performance anxiety
due to the sudden lifestyle changes.
And I really wanted to find answers
or at least some clues to help them.
I started researching and discovered Dr. Skidmore,
who has decades of experience as a performance psychologist.
After an inspiring and exhilarating conversation with him,
I knew it was time to launch the show.
I wanted to bring these valuable insights
to a platform where other pianists
and music educators like you could benefit.
And here we are.
Reflecting on the past four years
brings back memories of challenging times
like the COVID-19 pandemic, Brexit, and economic uncertainty.
We also saw rapid technological advancements
and the powerful impact of the Black Lives Matter movement.
Through it all, I am so proud and grateful
for our community's resilience and adaptability
within the classical music industry.
Over the past four years, the Pianopod has grown
and had a privilege of interviewing
over 70 trailblazers in our industry,
covering a wide range of piano-related topics.
We've also achieved impressive milestones,
including over 150,000 downloads on audio platforms
and 2,700 subscribers on YouTube.
All thanks to our dedicated listeners and viewers like you.
But don't worry, we're just getting started on this journey.
After a brief summer hiatus,
the Pianopod will return for season five
with an exciting lineup of guests.
Oh, by the way, if you know someone
in the classical music industry
who would be a great fit for our content,
please nominate them as a guest for the next season.
You can find the guest nomination form in the show notes.
Now, let's return to Dr. John Skidmore.
Not only is he the first guest ever on the show,
but also will he be the first guest ever
to return to the show.
It's the first time ever we are re-interviewing a past guest.
Anyways, if you haven't listened to our inaugural episode
with Dr. Skidmore from September, 2020,
you can catch it on our YouTube channel
or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Before diving in, let me share his brief bio.
Dr. John Skidmore is a dedicated performance coach
who helps performing artists around the world
find freedom on stage and in life.
He's not only a psychologist,
but also a singer, educator, speaker, and author.
His mission is to help artists develop
the psychological skills necessary for peak performance,
enabling them to confidently share their gifts,
tell their stories,
and play their musical instruments with joy.
So today, we will gain valuable insights
into the topic of performance anxiety from Dr. Skidmore,
focusing on his thought-provoking statement,
quote,
stage fright is not a pianist's number one enemy,
nor a disease.
It's a skill deficit, end quote.
Before getting started with this special episode,
I want to welcome all our first timers to the PianoPod.
I am a classical pianist and educator from New York City.
Whether you are diving deep into a piano career,
working professionally in the classical music scene,
or simply having a passion for piano tunes,
this podcast is your backstage pass
to the fascinating piano world.
To our incredible TPP fans and loyal listeners,
welcome back.
Your continued support means a lot to us.
If you enjoyed today's episode,
please take a moment to rate and review the show
on your favorite podcasting platform.
Your feedback helps others discover the joy of the PianoPod.
Now, without further ado,
I am thrilled to welcome back Dr. John Skidmore
and kick off our conversation.
So sit back, relax, and please enjoy the show.
["Piano Pod"]
You are listening to the PianoPod,
where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry
about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century.
["Piano Pod"]
Welcome back to the PianoPod, Dr. Skidmore.
Thank you, thank you.
It's a delight to be here again.
Oh my goodness.
It's such a pleasure to have you on our show again.
And you were our very first guest on season one,
episode one, back in September, 2020.
I mean, can you imagine, it's been four years.
Oh my goodness.
It's surprising how quickly time flies, isn't it?
I know.
And then these four years have really flown by so fast.
And when I think back to that initial interview,
it feels like at the same time, a lifetime ago.
So I remember back then, spring of 2020,
just right after the lockdown happened and everything.
And I think I discovered you through one of the articles,
and that you were the featured guest in the article.
Well, that was the Clavier article.
I think so.
And then I discovered your book,
and I really love the book, Conquer Anxiety.
For my listeners, if you haven't checked out Dr. Skidmore,
co-authored book, Conquer Anxiety,
please check it out on wherever you read books these days.
Anyway, so, you know, afterwards I emailed you
and then we started the conversation,
but you are really the inspiration and driving force
behind the launch of the PianoPod.
So it's so meaningful that you are back with us today.
And you know, guess what?
You're also not only the first time ever guest on the show,
but also first ever returning guest.
So congratulations.
Well, thank you.
Thank you, thank you.
So how have you been?
Please just give us your update.
You know, it's amazing to watch all the things
that come and go with life, and life is always happening.
And one of the most exciting things for me
is that I have retired from my clinical practice
as a psychologist.
Wow.
Yes, that's a very big step.
It's something I've been wanting to do for a long time.
And so now I'm in the full-time role
of performance psychologist.
And so whether I'm working with people individually
or like last weekend,
I was with the Classical Singer Convention in Washington, DC,
got to work, did four presentations
with some just amazing young up and coming singers,
semi-professional, wanting to be professional singers.
It was just a delight to be there
and to share with them the tools and skills
from the mental side of the game.
So fun.
Wow, that sounds like fun.
And so looking back over the past four years,
what are some of the most memorable moments
or maybe significant developments in your work
now that you successfully transfer your career
from clinical practice to coaching, performance coach?
So.
You know, the one thing that I'm seeing now more than ever
and it really is that the up and coming performers
need these tools.
What I'm really seeing is when the world of performing arts
has always been a very competitive arena.
It's always been competitive.
And what I'm really seeing is that
as there always will be in any situation,
there will be some competitors that rise to the top.
I mean, they just get there.
Okay.
But what I'm seeing is the pressure
and the social media pressures,
in some cases, the fewer opportunities to perform
to make a living in this arena
is creating an inordinate amount of stress and pressure
that in some ways is for too many,
certainly not for everybody,
but it's crushing their talent.
It really seems to be having a negative impact
on the talent because they can't make it good enough.
They can't make it big enough.
They can't seem to succeed with it.
And so it's really just amazing to watch that.
The other thing I've noticed,
which has been a really interesting surprise for me
is I've referred to it as performance dread.
I've been talking to a lot of people that just like,
I dread this love hate relationship with performing.
I wanna do this and I dread it.
And so that's been interesting.
That's not a new thing, but it's just interesting
that it seemed to have shown up a little bit more frequently
is that I'm driving to the venue
and it's like, I'm just kind of dreading this,
but I wanna do it.
And anyway, it's delightful.
It's really exciting to watch performers drop that dread
and step into the excitement of let's share the gift.
Let's express myself.
Let's be open to the experience.
Let's enjoy it.
And that's really what I get excited about.
Yes, and then as I got to know your practice and the books,
and obviously, I interviewed you four years ago
and since then I am becoming more aware
of how important it is to equip yourself as an artist
about performance, performing anxiety,
conquer performance anxiety,
but also as an educator to teach that.
So let's talk about the importance
of mental skill training.
So you emphasize the importance
of mental training for performers.
And can you explain what mental training involves
and why it's crucial for pianists,
but also more than not only just the pianists,
but performing artists.
When we develop a craft,
whether it's with the piano, with surgery, playing chess,
whatever our craft is,
we will spend a tremendous amount of time, energy,
resource to develop that.
There's no question about that.
And one of the things that we assume
is that our mental ability, our mental skills
will just kind of come along the way
and we'll just be able to kind of somehow have
what we need to do this.
And it's so common as I talk with people,
when we talk about where did you get a solid understanding
of the sense of stage fright, performance anxiety,
most people go,
I think that somebody mentioned that in a master class
like five years ago,
or where have you learned the tools and skills
about attention, focus and control,
how to direct and manage your attention,
because if you're doing that,
you're gonna be in a better place
than if your attention is just being drawn wherever it goes.
The question about negativity,
how harsh should we be when we make a mistake?
Now, this is kind of a cultural shift and a big picture,
but yes, there's still plenty of people
that are very, very negative about mistakes
thinking that's gonna help them.
But we also know that's not the most effective way
to improve performance in terms of being negative.
Now, being realistic, being constructive is certainly better,
but the idea that we can in a sense shame or yell
or threaten ourselves or punish ourselves
into a better performance, that doesn't hold anymore.
And so really it's the idea of developing the mental skills
to support the expression of our musical craft,
our musical skills.
And it makes the journey so much more enjoyable.
I've seen great artists that just dread and stress
and fret as they go into their performance,
they seem to do okay, they feel sometimes okay about it,
but there's this deep anxiety about it
rather than a joy and an excitement.
One of the lines that I spent an hour and a half,
it was just one of those interesting things,
I'm trying to put together a little flyer
from my experience in Washington, DC,
and I called three or four different people,
and I'm wrestling with this phrase
for about an hour and a half, what do I wanna say?
What do I wanna say in this five word kind of thing?
And now that's too big, now that's not saying it.
And finally it was like, your voice is ready,
your song is ready, are you ready?
It's like, am I ready?
The idea that we're supposed to include,
yes, we wanna train our ability with the piano,
we wanna get that song, that beautiful piece of music
in those fingers, in the mind, in the body,
so we can just play that song, but am I ready?
And so that's one of the things that I love to talk about
because most artists would say,
well, if my song is ready, then I am ready.
But they also have a real challenge with the idea
of is my song ready?
Like, is my song really ready?
But there's always more I could do,
it could always be better, it could always be,
so is it ready?
And so to be able to look at this and say,
okay, my song is ready, yes,
and my skills, they're solid, they're ready,
and am I ready?
And we can bring that trio together,
we can find an amazing experience on stage.
So how am I going to be able to get myself ready then?
Okay, so what's the secret?
I know there are so many steps to take.
I know the secret.
Okay, what do you think the most important part of,
like prep yourself?
Well, to me, it's really about stepping out of,
I'm getting ready for this big performance
and putting it into the perspective of I am ready.
And what does that mean?
It means that this is something
that I'm clearly invested in, I am choosing this,
I'm wanting to do this.
That's where it starts.
And I'm also aware that this is gonna be a challenging
journey, this challenging journey that we are on.
So sometimes we're really in line with,
yes, this is who I am and I'm ready to do this.
And then sometimes we get knocked off base, so to speak,
and we go into self doubt, we go into criticism,
we go into anxiety.
And so it really is important to be able to step back
and say, it starts with, is this what I'm choosing to do?
Do I choose to do this?
When you think about it from that perspective,
the student who was complaining about her senior recital
and just how much stress she was experiencing,
I said, well, why are you doing this?
And it's like, they're making me.
And it's like, whoa, slow down, slow down.
Who signed you up for a degree in music?
Oh, I guess I did.
All right, so, and you'd heard about this thing
called the senior recital, right?
Oh yeah, I've heard about it for years.
Oh, I'm choosing to do this.
Okay, so then it's a question of,
yes, this is what I'm choosing.
And then it's really the question of how to develop
the mental skills and what are these mental skills?
Now I like to put these mental skills,
oh, somewhere around six or seven,
maybe eight different skills.
Let me just kind of go through these really quickly.
I could do an entire presentation on each one of these,
right?
Right.
Which we're not gonna do this morning.
And so it's really like saying,
okay, do I understand what's happening in my body?
See, I call it activation.
The sympathetic nervous system is activated.
Do I understand this?
Do I recognize this?
And have I been taught specific tools and skills
to manage it?
Typically, in any group that I'm working with right now,
less than 10% of the people will raise their hand
when I say, who in here has a regular practice
of daily meditation, relaxation exercises.
About 10% or less will raise their hand.
There was one time I did this, only one hand went up
and she was a former student.
And it was like, oh, hey, great.
Nice to see you Dr. Skidmore.
Yeah, Suzy.
And so we need to understand this system
and we need to be able to train this system.
We can't train it out of ourselves.
That's actually a question of my final exam.
True or false?
You can train your stress response out of you.
False.
It is so deeply ingrained in our brain.
We can't train it out.
But we can understand it and we can manage it.
So there's a lot to recognize that.
And simply by referring to it as activation
rather than anxiety, changes so much for so many people.
I'm activated.
Well, I'm here to sing.
I'm here to play the piano.
So what, I'm activated.
But if they have that energy of somehow being activated
is bad or wrong, then it gets in their way.
And it becomes more and more frustrating.
I mean, one simple little fact here.
It can take 20 minutes or longer
for the energy of being activated,
getting that stress response triggered,
for it to fade away.
So too many people are thinking like,
well, I'm all stressed out and activated, stage fright.
Well, I should do a breathing exercise.
It didn't go away.
No, it's gonna take 20 minutes for that to fade away.
Well, how interesting.
And so to be able to understand that
and to be able to say, okay, it's gonna take some time.
And if I focus on it as a problem, it's gonna get worse.
If I focus on it as something that's here,
I know what it is, it's not gonna trip me up
and I can do a few breathing exercises
so it will calm things down.
And then I'm free to move on with this.
I talked with one professional violin player
and he had the idea that he was supposed
to eliminate this activation.
And he was talking about how you're still
way too nervous on this performance.
I said, okay, from a zero to 10, how activated were you?
Six.
Okay, zero to 10, 10 being just massive problems.
It created so much energy for your performance.
It really just interfered with your performance.
Zero to 10, what would be your rating?
10 being just, oh, just really devastating.
Oh, it didn't bother my performance.
It didn't impact me at all.
It's like, okay, so you can comfortably perform great
at a level six activation.
Let's not worry about that.
And the less you worry about it, the lower it's gonna get.
So that is one really important key.
Stage fright is not our enemy.
It is not the number one enemy.
It's a skill deficit.
And we need the physical skills
like the relaxation strategies.
We also need the mental skills to manage that as well.
So the whole idea behind activation management
is one of the things I really focus on.
Another thing I really focus on is the whole concept
of storytelling or self-talk.
What are the stories that we're telling ourselves?
Are auditions humiliating, terrifying, embarrassing?
Are auditions a source of defeat and disappointment?
Or are auditions the gateway to opportunities?
And suddenly that can shift.
And so we have to really become aware
of what we're telling ourselves and what's the story
and what are the words we're using.
I mean, the simple, I can do this
versus I can't do this is huge.
It is.
It's just absolutely huge.
And so say, okay, what are we telling ourselves?
So we've really got to take on what is in our stories.
And that's the word I like to describe.
What's the narrative we're telling ourselves about it.
And we need to understand what the present day narrative is
in a sense, what are the words
that actually came out of my mouth?
But what is our historical narrative?
For example, there was a young lady
who was gonna play a Chopin piece
at her sister's wedding reception.
She was like 13 or 14.
Well, she got ready to play and it was time.
And so she started to play and she was so embarrassed
and so upset about how she performed.
It's like she just told herself right then and there,
I'm never gonna play Chopin again.
It's like, I'm just not gonna play Chopin.
And it wasn't until her senior recital
when her professor said, look,
Chopin is gonna be on your program.
He's gotta be there.
And then she was in my office and said,
I don't wanna play with Chopin.
I don't wanna do this.
And we got her through that.
So that's a piece of history
that is absolutely impacting today.
And this is a connection we don't often really find
or see very quickly.
And so, yes, looking at our historical perspectives
and what kinds of experiences, what kinds of stories,
what kinds of, in some cases, traumas we had
and how they're impacting.
So here we could say she had some trauma with Chopin
and ever since then, she's been avoiding Chopin
until she had to play with Chopin again.
I joke on that play with Chopin.
I don't wanna play with Chopin.
I don't like him.
He beat me up last time we played.
It's like, no, no, no, I don't wanna do that.
No, it's like, okay, this is just a beautiful composer.
Why limit yourself?
Right, yeah.
I know, but you have several strategies
to change the narrative, right?
But first impression of, let's say, failure, quote unquote,
and you experience, especially as a young student,
experience the trauma of that mistake, failure,
it's not as bad as you think.
You know, you're trying to tell, yeah,
but for the person who experienced,
it's like, oh my gosh,
because the certain part of the brain is activated,
I think it's called amygdala or something.
Yes.
Old part of our brain, the part that we inherited from
and then so that's the part is warning you, right?
Yes.
Basically.
But how do you change that signal
to something you don't have to be so scared about it
or you can have a more, let's say, positive insight,
positive memory of that?
You know, sometimes changing these patterns
is really, really difficult.
I wish there was just a hypnotic trance
I could put everybody into and it'd be gone.
Yeah, right.
And you know, I've had a lot of hypnosis training
and I use it as a tool in many different ways
when it's appropriate.
Oh, wow.
I haven't ever felt like it was magical.
Like somehow doing that will just take this away.
It's a tool in the toolbox.
But anyway, what you're really talking about
is an awareness that this pattern,
one, it's not necessary.
In fact, here's a simple way to describe this.
I think this would be great for all of your teachers.
Okay.
Think of my hands as the two spheres of my brain,
these two hemispheres of my brain.
And so the thumb is the amygdala
and the fingers are all the frontal cortex.
So I have these two parts of the brain inside my hand.
Well, based on survival,
we want to be able to recognize very quickly
those things that are gonna hurt us or harm us.
We don't wanna have to relearn that rattlesnakes
are dangerous every time we see one.
We don't wanna learn that putting your hand on a hot stove
is gonna burn us every time we see a hot stove.
So those things are stuck in our brain
that will automatically just fire off
and send us into that fight or flight response.
That's exactly what it's gonna do.
So here I am walking down a beautiful trail
in Zion National Park in Utah.
And I hear that buzz of a rattlesnake,
at which point my brain totally activates.
Wah!
Ah!
Okay.
Now, this is called the ABCDE of the brain.
So you could say A is for the amygdala and activation.
But are you in danger?
The answer would be no.
Okay, I don't need this.
Well, the body has been supercharged.
All kinds of adrenaline,
hormones are coursing through the body.
Well, can I start to do the breathing
and find that balancing point,
get the body restored to a sense of balance?
Can I check my thinking?
What's the story I'm telling myself?
Let's check and correct our thinking.
With correct thinking, then we can decide, that's the D.
We can decide what we wanna believe here.
And then we want to engage in that.
So one of my favorite assignments
in my performance psychology class
is to have students write a description
of their worst performance ever.
And these are dramatic performances.
These are dramatic stories, very painful stories.
Well, you can see they got activated, yes.
But were they in danger?
No.
Was their body completely out of control?
Yes.
Was their thinking out of control?
Yes.
Did they decide on where to go?
No.
And they wanted to run away.
So it's just like, ah, they were stuck in this like, ah.
But when we start to rewrite this story, it's like,
oh, I wasn't in danger.
Let's calm down the body.
Let's correct the thinking.
Let's decide what I want to do with this performance again.
And let's go in that path.
It's really interesting to look at it
from the perspective that inside of every performance,
there is a victory there.
There is something of tremendous value.
There's some gold in there.
We got to find it.
It may not always be what we expect it to be.
But it's something that can really make a difference for us.
But if all we're thinking about is the draw,
so all we're thinking about is the waste,
the horrible stuff that happened, we don't find the gold.
I guess when I'm thinking about gold,
I'm thinking about, this is what's going to help me shine.
This is what's going to give me value.
I can use this in my next performance.
It's going to help me be that much stronger,
that much more powerful, that much more sensitive,
that more musical.
So it's the value that this has.
Most performers could come up with a list of performances,
sometimes more than a few,
where, okay, there was nothing good in that,
and this was embarrassing, and this was bad,
and they're still dragging that around with them.
And it's like, okay, they haven't been able to find
the good stuff in that performance that's allowing them
that will support their next performance.
And so we start to look at this, and again,
our brain is designed to give meaning.
It will give a meaning to everything.
So it's going to give meaning to that performance too.
And especially in the world of auditioning and competing,
if people have winning means I'm great,
and losing means I'm bad, they're on a roller coaster
every time they are putting themselves out there.
So here I am at this classical singer convention,
and the idea, I mean, what are the odds of them really winning?
Well, it'd be like one in,
I don't know who took the grand prize.
I think they'll find that out.
Not that they found that out last night.
I need to find out who that was.
But it's like there were 600 singers there.
So you have a chance of one in 600
to be that ultimate winner.
Well, you go to audition for a major symphony orchestra.
There's going to be 150.
There's going to be 300 people vying for that tuba place.
Well, that means there's going to be at least 10% of that group,
any one of them could do it great,
at least 10% if not more than that.
And so that sense of being good or bad
is the roller coaster we don't want to get caught on.
And again, it's our story that we're telling ourselves.
But we start talking about activation management,
our thought management is a real important thing,
the story we're telling ourselves,
our past and present stories.
We got to look at how we manage our attention focus.
See, we're not really trained,
we're kind of told to concentrate and focus
and pay attention a lot.
But what are we supposed to pay attention to?
And what happens if we're being distracted by what?
What do we do?
So that's another important skill and tool.
In my performance psychology class one night,
I thought I'm going to be a little bit crazy with this.
And so I invited five or six performers
to get ready to perform something,
they went out in the hall, they came in one at a time.
And then I intentionally had our class members
try to distract them while they were performing.
Like literally throwing paper airplanes at them
while they were singing or asking them questions.
Excuse me, where'd you grow up?
Just really random kind of questions.
And at some point they had to decide
what is most important to write here right now.
And I loved it as one singer was up there singing
and she decided at first there was like,
and also it's like, oh, I know what's going on.
So she starts to move her hand
and she's gesturing with her hands
as she's singing her song,
as she's knocking paper airplanes out of the air
as they were coming toward her,
as she was singing her song.
Now, is that an ideal place to perform in?
No, but it was a great exercise in her deciding
what's most important.
And so that's one of the challenges we have as performers
to decide what's most important
and to keep our attention there.
I invited a delightful, wonderful pianist,
Robin Hancock at Brigham Young University
to perform for my class one night.
And he played fantastic.
It was a beautiful piece.
And now we're kind of debriefing his experience.
And I asked him at some point,
did your attention shift anywhere during the performance?
And he goes, oh, it certainly did.
Well, tell us about that.
Well, in the middle of his song,
he heard the heavy metal doors of this green room
open and clank shift.
And his next thought was, did I reserve this room?
What if somebody else needs this room right now?
Well, that was a shift of attention focus.
Now, he didn't stop and say, excuse me,
do you need this room?
It's like, well, he decided very quickly
that playing his song was more important
than whatever problem that could be.
But his attention shifted.
And so we've got to know we have just milliseconds sometimes
if our attention takes us off track to get it back on track.
He was able to bring it right back on track.
He didn't spend the rest of his piece worrying about
whether or not he had this room reserved or not.
So that was an attention shift.
Another skill I think that is just so important
is the skill of properly debriefing a performance.
In a sense, really looking at what worked
and what didn't, not just on stage that night,
but in the entire process from the decision to perform
and motivation to the performance,
the decision to perform and motivation
to all the mental practice skills,
to completing your musical preparation,
to the pre-performance routines.
See, these are a whole different set of skills
that we don't often talk too much about.
No, we often develop certain kind of rituals
around some of these things,
but to actually start to develop what I call a launch sequence.
What am I going to do that I can have control over
any time and every time I perform?
What is that launch sequence going to be?
What can it be?
And it's often a breath or breathing
or a visualization kind of thing.
And so we develop the pre-performance routines
and we develop the debriefing process.
So again, we can find out what worked.
And typically with most performing artists,
the majority of what they want to do shows up on stage.
It shows up that night.
The majority of it does.
And there may or may not be some things that didn't show up.
Well, what would you do next time?
Too many performers, and I've met many of them,
who post-performance were so effective
in their post-performance bashing
that that thought of never doing that again felt better.
So I said, OK, I'm never going to play with Chopin again.
Nope. Oh, I feel so much better.
OK, not doing Chopin.
Yeah, that ultimatum, yeah,
like makes you feel like you're in control, right?
Right.
And so that's just important to be able to recognize.
And so just knowing that developing a mindset
to equal your musical skill set is an important thing.
And we don't just get it along.
We get a toolbox of survival skills in the home
that we grew up in.
Whatever we had to deal with and experience there,
we had to figure out how to survive.
And many of those same tools will help us
and support us throughout our entire lives.
But some of those tools were learned by a five-year-old.
And we don't want a five-year-old in charge
of the decision-making process as a performer.
Oh, Chopin's too scary.
Nope, we're not doing Chopin.
Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, not doing Chopin.
Right.
You know, and so recognizing that we need a set of tools
and what are these tools,
then we can start to really refine them and develop them.
And they can make such a difference for us
in what we're doing as performers.
So it's really about the idea first and foremost
to reach brain is to start to claim the idea that,
okay, I want to get mentally tough.
I want to get mentally sharp.
I want to develop a mental edge
that's going to really support everything I do as a performer.
And with that mental edge,
I'm going to manage whatever shows up in a better way.
Just like a sharp knife certainly can cut through a tomato
a lot more efficiently and easily than a very dull knife.
Let's get that edge really sharp.
And so just knowing that there's tools and skills
is the first thing, and then just developing them.
And then we're always developing them because we...
Life is such a dynamic, uncertain process
that we get to deal with things in new ways all the time.
And when we're often stuck in the idea of controlling everything
in the context of perfection,
a surprise can be really shocking if not difficult.
And what we want to be able to do is step back and say,
okay, I want to figure out how to manage this.
So just knowing there's a whole set of musical tools,
skills out there, mental skills out there.
And as we start to develop those, they support us in amazing ways.
And it takes practice.
It really, really takes practice.
Just like performance.
So this mental skills also needs a daily practice.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
You know, two things that I like to talk to students about
that are part of a mental skills practice.
One is to explore or talk about one part of the performance process
that you don't like.
Okay, what would you have to let go of?
What would you have to do to like that part?
So again, the person who's driving to the concert venue
is thinking, I dread this, I hate this.
They're not enjoying that.
Well, how could you create a meaningful experience here?
One student talked about how, oh, I love performing.
I hate my lessons.
It's like, okay, well, what we found there was a lot of anxiety
in her lessons.
She felt like she wasn't doing things well enough.
And as soon as she gave up the idea that she was supposed to do things
perfect in her lesson, she started to enjoy her lessons
and her progress just like just expanded
because she was now able to enjoy the experience of discovering
and learning rather than feeling like it was proving
that there was something wrong with her.
Now, again, those are changing old stories.
You know, just a simple practice of making a decision for something.
For example, what if you said for a 24-hour period,
you weren't going to have any sugar?
So that would be something you'd have to remind yourself of.
I'm not going to eat any sugar today.
Now, is that going to change your world or your life?
It might help it a little bit.
One thing that's kind of interesting, think about this.
You're in the shower and you want to turn it on to cold.
Who would want to do that?
Well, it would take a conscious choice to be uncomfortable,
to say, I can handle being uncomfortable for 15 seconds
and turn it on to cold.
It's like that, but that's like a mental training kind of thing.
To look out for certain words, words that are like detrimental,
words that are like, oh, I can't do that.
My daughter's gymnastics club, if they said the word can't
in the club while they were working out,
they had to do like 30 push-ups.
Oh.
So.
Maybe I should have my students do the scales 30 times, right?
Scales 30 times and you say what I can't.
Yeah.
Let me know how that works if you try that.
I'll be curious.
OK.
So again, we have to look at this and say, OK,
this isn't about mastery as much as it is the continual practice.
And just as we're practicing the musical skills,
we get to practice refining those mental skills.
And it becomes a practice.
And so the thing there is, how do we teach our students
to develop a practice of mental skills training?
And so that might be as simple as starting every lesson
with a breathing exercise or to have them start their practice
sessions with a breathing exercise.
And so they're actually practicing these skills along
with what they're doing.
Now, all the practical tips that you gave us right now,
I heard a lot of mindset, the word mindset, quite often.
Yes.
Let's talk about the word mindset.
It has become such a buzzword in recent years.
And some might even say it's becoming a cliche.
However, I believe that the essence of the word
is often misunderstood or misused by those outside
of your field.
So can you share your extensive research
on the power of designing a mindset?
Growing up will give us a mindset about everything.
We have attitudes about it.
So in one of my presentations over the weekend,
I have a big black bag.
I don't have it handy or I'd show it.
And I start to pull objects out of it.
So I pull out a chocolate bar.
Who'd like it?
I had like 90% of the hands in the air like, give it to me.
Give it to me.
I pull out some roasted seaweed.
One or two hands went up.
So I gave out the roasted seaweed.
So chocolate versus roasted seaweed,
depending on who you are, some people
might prefer the seaweed over the chocolate.
And so just recognizing that we're going to have a mindset.
And what is this mindset?
And then to step back and say, did we design this mindset?
The research that I did was a lot of fun with this,
where we took 150 junior high school kids.
We had them go into a musical practice room
with a request to sing Happy Birthday as musically
as they could.
And then we had them go to the control group, which
was back to choir, or with the treatment group, which
was with me for 40 minutes.
And in these 40 minutes, all we did
was talk about designing a mindset.
And we practiced designing a mindset.
We practiced stepping into the mindset.
And I've got so many stories, so many places where, oh, let's
see, that was as big as I could be, huh?
Well, could I be bigger?
Could I be more expressive?
Let me try.
And then it gets bigger.
And so we were able to find statistical evidence
that when you start out with the intention of being bold,
confident-free, or expressive, dynamic, creative,
or whatever words work for you that inspire you for your song,
if that becomes your mindset, you have a target.
Am I aligned with that, or have I shifted from that?
It's kind of like, OK, I can see this happening.
Oh, OK, I want to be inspired and hopeful and excited.
OK, let's talk about someone setting those three
words as the intention for their senior recital.
Inspired, excited, hopeful.
And three weeks from the senior recital,
they were feeling excited, hopeful.
And they were really excited about this.
Three days, they slipped into this place of,
this isn't very good.
I can't do this.
I'm overwhelmed with this.
It's not going to be good enough.
So they went from a designed mindset
into a negative mindset, which is really common for us.
But what we've got to be able to do
is get back into that positive mindset and say, OK,
how can I let this go?
And again, this is where we often need to talk to people,
talk to teachers and coaches.
We get to talk to friends, sometimes psychologists,
coaches.
But it's all about how do we get back on that stable platform
that we designed?
See, mindfulness is a term we often
hear a lot about right now.
And see, mindfulness is about being
aware of what's in our mind and choosing what's in our mind
and choosing to be present right now.
And so the mindset for it to be supportive, creative, positive.
And just knowing that that's going
to help us every way it can when we're
in a positive mindset versus a negative mindset.
But it starts with designing that mindset.
So that's just a lot of fun.
I'll often in workshops I do, I'll
have people write their words, these empowering words
on a little name badge.
And two stories about this that I
thought are really interesting.
One, I asked for volunteers, and not a single person in the room
raised their hand.
Like, pick me.
No.
I watched this guy in the front row look down,
he goes, OK, I'm bold.
So he was aware that he'd shifted away
from this, the boldness, the excitement, the confidence.
And he stepped back into it by putting his hand in the air.
Another interesting story about mindset,
which I thought was really fascinating,
was I'm in my little spiel about I'm
going to sign you up to volunteer for this.
And I was in the process of doing this.
I hadn't even asked for volunteers yet.
Yes, I'll do it.
I was like, wow.
OK, come on up.
And of course, when he did that, some other people volunteered.
So now I had to skip that whole part.
I said, what are the words on your name badge
that you wrote down?
The only word he had on there was hungry.
And we're like, what?
Hungry.
He goes, I'm hungry to perform.
And was he totally in line with that by volunteering
before anybody else did?
Yes, he was.
So doing that mindset check is so important.
See, we can get activated, yes.
But are we in danger?
No.
Let's calm the body down.
Then we can check our thinking and what's in our mind.
Oh, let's correct that.
Let's decide what we want to put in there.
And then we can engage with that.
We can move forward with that.
So that's, again, the A, B, C, D, E of the brain.
That's just one way how that works.
But yeah, mindset is vital.
And we've got to recognize that when our mindset shifts
and we go to a negative space, we've
got to be compassionate first.
And then we can change that.
There was a young singer at Classical Singer Convention
last year in San Francisco.
And I asked her, OK, what are the empowering words
that you feel when you want to perform from an empowered
place?
And she had just incredibly great words.
Well, if your mindset shifts and you go to this negative place,
what word would you use to describe yourself
from this negative place?
And she just goes, talentless, which is just like, oh.
Oh, so painful.
Somehow all your talent just disappears.
Poof, it's gone.
So that's really the power of mindset right there
in recognizing once we can establish a mindset,
that now becomes the goal.
So any time you perform, in a sense,
you could say I have a goal to perform the music beautifully
and musically.
I also have a goal to maintain a mindset that's
powerful and supportive and uplifting.
Mindset's very, very important.
Yeah.
And then I love the fact that you said stage fright is not
a pianist's number one enemy.
Stage fright is not a disease.
It's the skill deficit.
Oh.
Yes.
So cool.
Yeah, makes sense.
Well, when you start to learn these skills,
you're going to start to say, oh, I need this.
It's really fun when I will talk to people
and debrief their performances.
And it's like, OK, so you got really activated, didn't you?
Yeah.
And if you practice any kind of strategies in the last few
weeks to help you with that, no.
OK, so there's some skills you're not
using that can make a difference for you.
Let's get you those skills.
And it's like, oh, OK.
And they just feel so much better about it.
Also, I want to talk about this old school
way of approach to peak performance.
So traditional way would be focusing only
on relentless practice.
I mean, relentless.
Relentless.
That's the perfect word for that.
And however, both research and the experiences
of pianists and educators have shown this to be insufficient
or rather to be wrong.
How does the modern understanding of brain
science, neuroscience change our approach
to achieving peak performance?
Well, I joke about being trained in the old school approach.
And I can refer to it as the old school approach
because that's what I was taught over 50 years ago.
It was all about the practice.
You practice, you practice more, and you hope.
That's just what it was.
And with that, what was I told to do?
Well, OK, we have a recital coming up.
So go play for the neighbor.
Go play for grandma.
Play it for your mom and your dad,
your brothers and sisters, your dog.
And you just play it so much that you don't
have to worry about it anymore.
But there's also a piece of this that's kind of interesting
is because every person you'd go play it for,
you'd unconsciously give them a rating.
High stress, low stress.
Oh, grandma loves me.
No stress here.
My dog loves me.
No stress here.
My mom.
Oh, I know she loves me, but there's some stress here.
We would give them a rating.
And so the idea that somehow we could practice enough
to make stage fright go away and that we would perform at our
best and have that peak performance experience just
does not hold in terms of brain science.
So when you start to look at the brain science approach,
when I did my doctoral dissertation
on the experience of the peak performance with musicians
35 years ago, we didn't have the brain technology we do now.
We basically had all kinds of anecdotal stories.
And we had all kinds of beautiful little examples
and stories of what this peak performance,
this incredible experience was like.
Well, now we can actually see how it impacts the brain.
And we discover there's things that we
can do to create and set up these peak performances.
Now, obviously, there's going to be a point in terms
of our preparation and our skills that have to meet.
It's like preparation skills that where they meet,
that's when we're able to really have a peak performance.
That can happen at any level.
The first real peak performance experience I recall ever having,
I was like 12 years old at a trumpet recital.
And I've been working on my song really hard.
It was coming together pretty good.
I'd never really just nailed it yet.
But I got up there that afternoon,
and I started to play.
And it just like sang.
It flowed right out of my trumpet.
And I was like, well, I must be really good.
I must be really good.
This was really much.
My teacher goes, John, how did you do that?
I have no idea.
It's Bruce.
I don't know how I did that.
Well, he was thinking I was really good too.
So the next recital, he gives me a piece
that really was too hard.
It was too difficult. And the week before the recital,
we both concluded that I just don't have this.
I can't play this.
And he apologized for giving me a piece that was too hard.
But there's also the mental skills
that we need to help set up this flow experience.
Anytime someone has jumped into a pool to go swimming,
they've had to give themselves the command to jump
and to be able to say, I'm going to jump into flow.
Well, we can do that too if we understand that.
I'm going to give myself permission to jump into flow.
And that's where we get to see all the mental skills
and the relaxation visualization skills,
the cleaning up some bad performances
so they don't come back out there on stage with us,
managing the mindset, the attention focus.
These are all tools and skills that we
use to really stay focused.
And if we get distracted for whatever reason,
we want to get back.
I mentioned my friend Robin Hancock where, OK,
he was wondering if he had reserved this room.
Is he going to be in trouble?
Is there going to be a problem?
Well, he's like, letting that go,
I'm going to bring my attention back here.
And it didn't bother him anymore for the rest
of the performance.
So speaking of flow, this is a very important word
of what you do and what I do as a performer,
but what I do as a music educator to teach.
So I was interviewing someone a couple episodes ago,
and we talked about the peak performance, the flow,
in the zone, in the flow, however you describe it.
Yeah, the groove, whatever you want to call it.
Yeah, exactly.
So do these flow fluctuate?
Meaning it's not all, but this pianist particularly
mentioned that they could only have this perfect performance
maybe several times a year.
They perform quite often.
But that peak performance where they were in the flow
like 100%, like so focused and so expressive,
and it just happened only a few times a year.
Good question.
Are we always going to have this peak performance flow state?
No.
OK, good to know.
Are there things we can do to set it up, to encourage it,
to increase the frequency?
Absolutely.
There are so many variables on a personal level,
on an environmental, on a social cultural level,
on the temperature in the concert hall,
the touch of the piano.
There's so many variables that we can't control.
Right, right, right.
Absolutely.
OK.
And even within a performance, I think
it's important to recognize there'll
be times we're going to be really in the flow of it
that we're going to be able to back off a little bit,
or we're going to be not quite in the flow the way we were,
and we'll get back into it.
So it's really a dynamic process.
It's not like just locking a laser on, and there we are,
and it's over.
But that's quite rare.
But it's kind of like, I mean, I'm sure my Robin Hancock
was in the flow of his performance.
He had this big interruption, like playing the door shuts.
Took him out of that flow experience.
He was able to get back into it.
And so that's really one of the hallmarks
of the great performance.
You can see another thing you're talking about
is what I like to refer to as the gap.
See, as artists, we have an ideal, an expectation,
and knowledge of what it should sound like.
And so many people think that that peak performance means
I nailed it.
I mean, there was no gap.
There was like, I was there.
It was amazing.
Well, if there's a gap, there's a gap.
But we're still at an amazing level.
The number of times when people have said,
oh, I made a bunch of mistakes in that, it's like,
did anybody hear a mistake?
No.
Well, I didn't sing it quite the way I wanted to.
I didn't play it the way I wanted it to.
Sounds, you know, that kind of thing.
So recognizing we're dealing with that flow state,
how to set it up, how to step into it and enjoy it.
And sometimes how to get back into it or manage
if we get kind of brought out of that flow.
But we also need to be able to give ourselves some compassion,
some grace that, OK, we may not be at that peak level
all the time, but it's still going to be amazing.
The audience is going to love it.
And they typically do.
So just recognizing that gap is something
that we're the only one that we've
got to be careful not to be too harsh with ourselves
if we discover there's a gap.
Absolutely.
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Now let's continue with the show.
I want to talk about you, Dr. Skidmore.
You've had a long and really exciting career
working with performing artists.
Of course, you had a career as a psychotherapist.
That's a different story.
But also, that influenced, obviously,
you to be who you are today.
So can you share with us how you first
became interested in the field of performance psychology?
And I know you yourself are a singer.
And so how does that part of you influenced your work
as a performance psychologist?
Well, I relate to people pretty well
in terms of feeling confident or unprepared for a performance.
I relate to mistakes on stage.
I relate to preparing for something.
And so that's been my own personal experience.
When I was working on my master's degree in counseling,
and I was singing with a premier college choir,
it's like, whoa, these are the tools and skills
that I wish I'd had years ago.
And one of the phrases I can hear from my dad so many times
was, the right tool for the job makes all the difference.
I don't know how many times I heard that growing up.
And so to me, it's about, hey, there's a tool here
and a tool here.
And look at all these tools that we can give you.
And they are the right tools for this job
without getting ready for a performance
and enjoying a performance.
And it's not just about practice.
Practicing is one of the tools.
There's a lot of other tools out there.
Let's get those in that toolbox.
Let's get you using those.
And I've really enjoyed it.
I've had a lot of fun from a clinical side.
The two sides have melded really well
because I bring a lot of my clinical experience
into my coaching.
And I brought a lot of coaching experience
into my clinical work.
I actually have people singing and dancing in my parking lot.
And I love one guy goes, John, if you'd have told me
I was going to be doing this today,
I'd have paid my missed appointment fee
and not shown up.
He was happy he did that.
It's like, oh, I stepped out of my comfort zone.
And so I love to see how these tools really work together
to expand that comfort zone, to create
that sense of excitement and intention about what we're
doing, and then be able to give us tools we can use as we face
the different challenges of the growth that we have personally
and professionally and musically.
It just makes things so much more effective, so much easier,
so much more enjoyable.
You mentioned about tools.
And I know there are several practical tools
that you mentioned four years ago during our interview
session, too, but also learning more about your work.
And then also, you mentioned something about juggling.
Yes.
I love the metaphor of juggling.
And in fact, I was talking to somebody recently
who I'd met at the Tauss Opera Institute about seven years
ago.
And he goes, I still remember how to juggle Dr. Skidmore.
I was like, awesome.
And what's so interesting about that
is a beautiful example of three important things.
One is an example of how we develop motor skills, how
we actually develop the skills to know I didn't have
the skill of doing three balls.
Oh, now I do.
Well, that's the same thing as a very difficult
fingering on a new piece.
At first, you don't have the motor skills.
You don't have the, it really takes some time
before it gets locked into those fingers and it's just there.
So that's the motor skill development.
Secondly, any time someone drops the ball,
I get to see how they respond to the literal dropping of a ball
and looking at how that applies to when they musically
drop the ball.
Oh, I'm so stupid.
Well, wait a minute.
You're learning how to juggle.
And so the phrase of woohoo, I'm learning to juggle
is one of my favorite things to do.
So usually when I'm working with a group,
at some point I'm teaching them how to juggle.
And I'll say, OK, the next time you drop the ball,
I want to hear a shout out like woohoo, I'm learning to juggle.
I'm learning to juggle.
And so as I coach people, I actually send them juggling
balls and they're like, what are you doing this for?
So I want you to, one, develop a familiarity with how
we develop new neural pathways.
Two, how you react to dropping the ball.
Can you react in a positive way?
And the third thing that's really fun about juggling,
it actually gives us a great example
of the struggle into flow.
This is really kind of intriguing because to get
into that flow state, there's a struggle space.
We've got to stay in there long enough.
And suddenly we're like, oh, there it is.
And it's just like the person who's struggling
to do three balls in the air.
They got two figured out.
They're struggling, struggling, struggling.
Whoa, yeah.
You know, it's like, I just did it.
I just did it.
And so it has a lot of power to it.
It's a lot of fun.
Oh, yeah.
You have so many creative ways to teach your clients
and students how to or develop the skills of conquering
anxiety.
So anyway, as you might recall, I reached out to you in 2020.
And then that's when I started reading Conquer Anxiety,
the book that you co-wrote.
So I came to understand that that book was actually
written in 2020?
Yes.
Yeah, it's such a practical book.
And also, but it starts from how our brain functions.
And it's really, it's a transformative book for me.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate that.
Yeah.
So for those who are listening, I really
recommend you to get this book, Conquer Anxiety,
that Dr. Skidmore co-authored.
So we live in such a complex world
with vast amounts of accessible information.
And then it's clear that just practicing for hours on
isn't enough to overcome anxiety.
So how important is it for music educators, like myself,
in this new era to have the skills to help their students
conquer performance anxiety?
How important is it?
I think it's essential.
Once you as a teacher embrace that I
get to teach two sets of skills, I
get to teach everything I know musically.
And that's certainly your domain.
But I also want to teach the skills
to express their musicality.
So it's no longer an expectation.
When it's caught in the domain of expectation,
what we end up feeling is disappointed, and angry,
and frustrated.
I did not meet that expectation.
But when we start to look at this and say,
I want to teach performance skills.
I love the story of a string studio that was getting
ready for a violin recital.
And I watched a young lady intercept the teacher
as the teacher was walking to the front of the room
to start the recital.
This student intercepts her and stops her and looking at her
and goes, I'm nervous.
And the teacher's going, you'll do fine.
And let's just say that young lady did not
look reassured as she went back to her seat.
But see, what if that teacher could have said, hey,
Ukemi, you're activated, aren't you?
Yeah?
OK.
Look, we've talked about three different tools.
Which one could you practice right now
to help you with activation?
Oh, the breathing exercises?
Yeah.
Hey, go try that.
We'll talk about how that works in your lesson on Friday.
You'll do fine.
So that's one of the ways in which I see educators really
needing this, because we'll always teach what we know.
And most of the time, that works out pretty well.
When we can have more tools, we can share more of what we know.
Now, the other thing, too, that we want to recognize
as educators, that this is not about the perfect performance.
This is about, in a sense, the perfect lesson.
So how do we teach the perspective that, yes, we
want excellence.
Yes, we want beautiful.
Yes, we want amazing stuff out there.
That's what our top goal is.
That's what we want to do.
And so everything is just going to help you get better.
Everything is just going to help you get better.
If we can look at that as a positive thing,
if we can use that in a positive way.
And so to bring a sense of compassion,
to bring a sense of enjoying the journey, enjoying the struggles,
that these are part of it, these paths that will take what we learn from this.
Yes, we get to look at this, and we get to learn from it.
And we're going to go on from this, and we're
going to keep building with this.
And then teachers have a whole different relationship
with the students than if it's just all about, this is right
and this is wrong.
The other thing I love to talk to music educators about,
and virtually every music educator I've ever talked to
understands the very beautiful privilege
it is to work so intimately and so closely with somebody.
And to see them in this struggle and this process of growing up
and growing through their experiences and growing
into their musical abilities.
And what a beautiful thing to be able to share and to do.
It's just really wonderful.
And so again, it's about just having more tools to share.
And you'll get to see them move forward in new ways.
And again, it's really about embracing that mindset of you're
the student as well, and that you are teaching them
the new things you're learning and discovering,
and making it a powerful and meaningful experience.
Teaching resilience is one of those things that I have to,
I guess, incorporate in lessons.
Not by force, but performing in front of people
takes certain mindset, but also courage too.
Yes.
So how do we do that?
How do we teach us?
Maybe it's not just my job.
It's the parents' job too, where most of the time,
I see a lot of helicopter parenting style,
and which prevents from teaching young students of resilience
sometimes, unfortunately.
And then so it just becomes my job.
But I'm like, I think this is way above my pay grade.
Well, I think it's important to recognize that anything you
teach a student, anything they experience,
is going to be landing on their experience
with their parents, their early childhood environment.
And so what you want to make sure you're doing
is really reinforcing the positive, the compassionate,
the creative, the discovery kind of thing.
When I coach a parent, I'll say, OK, we're now
talking about parenting.
Can you view your child's experience
through the lens of discovery?
And they're in the process of mastery.
And what is the relationship you want
them to develop with themselves and their world
as they're discovering and mastering?
And so when you start to look at that and say, OK,
how do I help them develop a relationship with themselves
as they're seen as someone who's growing, learning,
discovering, rather than failing, being stupid,
wrong, and bad?
And with expectations, with culture,
there's a lot of things that are going to be already in place.
And so again, you're in a very privileged place
to be able to have such a positive impact
and such a growth-oriented experience with this child
because you become a mentor for them.
I've talked to so many people that their teachers have
become wonderful mentors.
And I've talked to a few that have been really
unhappy with how they were mentored by their teachers.
Not every teacher works for every student.
Right.
But the main challenge here is to take on
that this is a privilege and that you
want to help them enjoy this discovery mastery process
and create a great experience with music,
a great experience within themselves,
with those around them as they are moving forward.
Our real confidence, our real resilience, is not built
by always hitting home runs or winning competitions
or succeeding.
It's really how we manage those difficult moments.
Absolutely.
And so again, to drop the expectation
that there aren't going to be any difficult moments
is important.
And to keep working with students that, OK,
this is something we're going to grow through, go through.
We're going to go through.
We're going to grow through.
Mm-hmm.
And if we get to the other side of this,
we're going to be better off.
So let's just go through and grow through
and let's get to the other side and let's figure out
what we've got to learn.
And we don't want to be carrying with those things that
are going to be, let's just say, a burden later down the road.
Thank you.
So we talked about your book that came out four years ago.
But I believe there is a new book coming out,
Coping with Anxiety from a Cow's Perspective.
Yes.
Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Now tell us what that is all about.
Oh, it's a beautiful story.
Kristin J. Lloyd is my co-author,
and she's the illustrator.
And she's a former student from my class
at Brigham Young University.
And we have been collaborating for the last year,
and we're just about done with two books.
But it's really about her story of growing up
on a farm with a befriended cow.
And her cow became her best friend.
And it's really conversations between her and her cow
about having, she broke a bunch of eggs
when she shouldn't have.
So she's really scared.
And so how her cow talks her through the process
of being able to get clear in her mind
and really help her with her problems.
And how she's able to get back into her mind
and really help her talk to her grandma
and to get back into, yes, I can gather eggs.
And it's just a very wonderful story metaphor.
I'd encourage anybody to look at Kristin J. Lloyd.
She has a beautiful song called Find My Brave.
My Brave is her song.
And she's written an original song for this book
as well called Butterfly Forward.
Basically a metaphor for how thoughts can change.
They can butterfly forward.
And so, oh, it's just been a wonderful project.
And I've also got other projects I'm working with.
But yeah, this is really a fun thing.
Yes, and another book is the 30 Days to Peak Performance.
It's the workbook, right?
Yes.
Yeah, tell us.
Does this workbook go along with your original, which
came out four years ago, Conquer Anxiety?
It certainly does.
What it really is is just a great reminder
of what do I need to do.
If I had 30 days to get ready for a peak performance,
what would I want to do?
What are those key things I would want to do in this journey?
So certainly there'd be practice,
there'd be mental practice.
There's reminders about daily mental practice skills.
It's about recognizing that this process of the five stages
of peak performance, which is definitely
what my book is all about, it walks a person
through those five stages within that 30-day context.
What are you doing and why?
What's the mindset you designed for this?
You're preparing musically and mentally.
When are you declaring that preparation complete?
What kind of pre-performance routines
are you going to incorporate in this?
You performed.
How are you going to debrief this?
So in that 30-day experience, you can keep moving forward.
Wow, that's going to be helpful because I really love the book.
And I always refer back to your book
because sometimes I need it for myself and for my students
and having to have the 30-day Days to Peak Performance workbook
will help.
It's more practical.
Yeah.
Yeah, right?
It's very hands-on.
I will send you a copy here when we get done.
And yeah, I'll be happy to get you a copy of that.
Thank you.
And it's just a great reminder of, OK,
what am I doing every day that's going to advance, promote,
move me forward?
Or somehow I'm doing something that might be like a retreat,
stop, a pause.
OK, even like slide downhill kind of thing.
And so it's just a great reminder.
It's really especially good for helping
you look at your mindset.
Yeah.
Dr. Skidmore, what a journey it's been, right?
I mean, four years, and you've accomplished so much.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
It's a delight.
It's such a privilege.
And it's so amazing to be able to see
how these tools and skills open doors.
They open the doors to the stage.
And in some cases, they've opened doors
that have been shut.
And now they can get back out there on stage.
And it's just exciting to see the difference that
makes for people and performers.
And really one of my primary goals
is I'm privileged to be able to help people create freedom
on their stage and in their life.
I just love that idea that, yeah, that's what I get to do,
help people create freedom on stage and in life.
You're connecting the performance art and music
and the life itself together.
That's beautiful.
Thank you.
So how can we sign up?
I would love for my audience to sign up for your master classes
maybe if you're hosting.
Or so I know we can get in touch with you through your website
at johnskidmore.com.
What else?
OK.
I'm also on Facebook and social media things.
But my website is probably the best place to get hold of me.
And just email me.
I'd be happy to talk to you.
One of my favorite things to do is
to do workshops specifically for studios.
So whether in person or on Zoom, we'll
just spend some time with the studio.
And we're just working with that studio together.
That's one way we can do things.
I have a course called The Musician's Path
to Peak Performance, which is a five-week course.
My next one for that is scheduled in November.
And again, that's on my website.
I'm going through another studio in Denver
that I'm working with that's sponsoring that.
And I've got stuff happening all the time.
Two things that are really interesting.
Every month I do a Peak Performance Master Class.
And this is a free opportunity.
I don't charge for this.
A teacher will contact me and say, hey, I have a student
I'd like to have participate in your master class.
And it's like, great.
And so they perform.
And whether they're playing the piano or singing
or playing the tuba, it doesn't really matter to me.
But we master class this from the psychological perspective.
What were you thinking?
What were you seeing?
What did you experience?
How did you handle the fact that there
was a problem with the internet?
All these kinds of things.
This is on Zoom.
And so that Peak Performance Master Class
is really a wonderful opportunity
to connect and to get to know me a little bit better,
to see how I work with students.
Students just watching that get good information.
It's like, oh, I had a 13-year-old.
I asked her, so what did you get out of a master class?
And she goes, well, I kept hearing people talk about how
it really didn't matter what other people were thinking
of me when I was performing.
I never really thought of that before.
I thought that was really important.
And so the three people that performed that day,
talked this through.
And that was just one of the things that she took away
from that experience.
So I do a 9 o'clock in the morning,
mountain time on the second Wednesday,
and a 5 o'clock in the evening on the third Wednesday
of every month.
So that'd be another opportunity that'd be really fun to connect
with and to invite your students to sit in on that
or perform for it.
I'd love to talk to more teachers.
Sure.
Yeah.
And then I know you sent me the link, the Zoom link,
the registration link.
So I'll make sure to put that in the description as well.
And then also you offer a half an hour free discovery
consultation as well, right?
Yes.
That's really an amazing opportunity because, first off,
for a lot of people, the introduction of performance
skills is relatively new.
They're not quite sure how this is going to make a difference,
or what they are.
If someone's in a crisis and they're coming to see me,
that's a different story because they're in crisis.
They want help.
So yes, I'm happy to meet with somebody for a 30 minute
consultation.
And we're just talking to see how mental skills training
can make a difference for you and what direction
to go with that.
And if I'm the direction to go with,
we'll talk about how to work individually with me
or with your group with me.
Or other times I've referred people out to,
I actually referred somebody to Toastmasters the other day.
You're a performer, but I think Toastmasters would really
help you.
In terms of just getting up and publicly presenting yourself.
And so that's really what that's all about,
is to get to connect with people and to be
able to see if the tools, what I can share,
can really make a difference for them.
And we'll go from there.
Wonderful.
Well, it's been a great, wonderful,
inspirational conversation.
But I have just a few more questions to go.
I hope that's OK.
So these are going to be a little bit more philosophical.
Sweet.
So how can we shift the cultural perception of performance
anxiety from a personal weakness to a natural aspect
of the human experience, deserving
of compassion and support?
Wow, you said that so well.
We need to help people understand
that this is a natural part of the human experience that
needs compassion, needs support, and needs tools.
It's not a disease.
So what you're describing, Ukemi, is exactly the goal here.
I've talked to students and talked
to teachers who just assume that performance anxiety is normal,
like it should be part of the experience.
People have said things like, well, if you're anxious,
that means you care.
Well, that doesn't help you very much.
OK, I care, but I'm still anxious.
And this thing is taking over, and I'm not happy with this,
and I don't know what to do about it.
It's going to get more anxiety and more problems.
And so the other part of this is, as educators,
be really informed.
And to find out as much information
as you can from as many different sources
is how do we bring the tools and skills
and make them a part of our lesson?
Teachers who will start a lesson with a one minute breathing
exercise have a very different experience in that lesson.
I mean, even if it was as simply as put a finger right here,
breathe in, breathe out, and think I am bold.
I'm confident.
I'm expressive.
I'm going to discover a lot today.
I'm going to discover a lot of stuff in my lesson.
I'm going to be really open in my lesson today.
I mean, that's establishing mindset.
It's helping get connected to the mind and body.
There's so many different things like that as a simple tool.
One thing, for example, like just having that mindset
established for your lesson, what that can do
is when you discover frustration has crept in,
or there's some even anger, or there's disappointment,
you just have to say, so John, what's your mindset right now?
I am really frustrated.
OK.
We get to acknowledge you're frustrated.
Now that's not what you created the intention for today
in this lesson.
So what can we do to get that frustration out
of the practice room here, out of the lesson?
Let's get you back into the expressive,
and the confident, and the creative.
Oh, yeah.
I guess I kind of forgot that confidence wasn't doing it right
and knowing I could do it right.
It's knowing I can handle whatever shows up.
Oh, yeah.
OK, I can handle this.
Let's step back into confident.
Can I play this again from confident?
So it becomes a really great little tool that way.
I would love to hear from you or from any of your friends
or other teachers how something from this podcast
has made a difference for you teaching.
I would love to hear.
Please contact me.
I would love to communicate with you about that.
Because I learn a lot from those who I talk with.
This little exercise here, what I taught it,
it was like squeeze your fingertip.
Well, somebody I was working with says,
I do that a little differently, John.
Well, how do you do it?
Well, I slide my finger up, and it feels kind of nice.
And it's like, oh, I love that.
So there's so many different variations
of what we can do here.
And so to be able to learn more about that, learn from you,
I would love to learn from you.
And if you're running into some very specific problems
or issues with specific students, have some questions,
please feel free to contact me.
I'd like to be seen as a resource.
Yeah, and I'm sure there are a lot of questions
from performing artists to music educators today.
Because these are really ongoing issues.
Yes.
And I don't want to say issues.
Then that's also the negativity.
But it is true.
And then something that we want to solve for ourselves
and for our students.
But I feel like in the past, I felt like I wasn't equipped
enough.
So that's why I obviously reached out to you
four years ago.
Anyway, so how can we use our vulnerability and authenticity
in performances to our advantage, particularly
in connecting more deeply with our audiences?
We all relate to the human experience.
And none of us are perfect.
And sometimes we've gone to concerts and programs
and we're expecting that absolutely amazing
musical experience.
And we've often talked about how that's supposed
to be close to perfection.
It's really about being confident enough
and strong enough within ourselves to say, I got lost.
Well, I will fix that if we get lost.
Or we move through it and we bring compassion to ourselves.
And we finish strong.
We finish excited.
And we finish musically rather than we've
struggled with something.
And then we're berating ourselves and angry
and frustrated.
And it just leads to more of a cascade into disaster.
And it's really about just the enjoyment
of the realness of our experience.
In our digital age, we can make, I mean,
auto tuners are a thing with the voice these days.
And a good artist can alter the sound, can alter the tempo,
can take out one little bit of sound
and replace it with another little bit of sound.
And we don't see the hundreds of hours
that could go into a recording to make
every note sound perfect.
And so the other thing on that is our cultures.
We get to just embrace the reality of life
and just look at this as a privilege
to be a part of someone being willing to share their talents
and you as the performer being willing to share your talents.
In that sense, I love to talk about the gifts we have to give,
the stories we have to tell, the songs we have to sing,
and the pianos we get to play with.
So you get to play with a piano.
My mom was a delightful pianist.
And I so cherish my experience with her
as an accompaniment for many, many years.
And also with the neighborhood recital
and inviting friends and family into the front room
around the grand piano to just enjoy
that kind of beautiful musical experience.
And so creating a culture of fun and enjoyment
is such an important part.
And so I really appreciate what you're
doing with your podcast and how you're
wanting to deepen the experience for so many people
and to create that freedom to enjoy expressing themselves
through the piano.
Oh, thank you.
It means a lot because you gave me the push
to do this podcast in many ways.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because I really enjoyed our conversation on the phone.
I was like, oh, I can put our conversation
on the podcast platform so that everybody else can benefit
from our conversation.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, but this has been a great conversation.
Thank you so much once again.
And so for our listeners, please visit
JohnSkidmore.com, which is J-O-N-S-K-I-D-M-O-R-E.com
to learn more about Dr. John Skidmore and his work
and then all the workshops that he mentioned,
and half an hour discovery consultation,
and also his peak performance course in November
that's coming out, plus new workbook and so on.
Before I let you go, we have this thing, the rapid fire
questions.
And I asked some fun questions to each guest.
And here's a little twist.
As silly as these questions may sound,
your answers may reveal who you truly are.
So I want you to answer each question with the shortest
response as possible and then no explanation is necessary.
Let's start with an easy one, level one.
What is your comfort food?
Oh, probably soup.
How do you like your coffee in the morning?
You know, I'm actually not a coffee drinker,
so I don't do coffee in the morning.
Oh, wow.
OK.
Cats or dogs?
Oh, definitely a dog.
I'm allergic to cats.
OK.
Sunrise or sunset?
I love the sunrise.
I'll often go hiking in Utah.
Oh, no explanation.
Sunrise.
There we go.
All right.
Summer or winter?
Oh, winter.
I'm an avid cross-country skier.
Really?
Oh, my goodness.
Wow.
You see, a lot to discover from these questions, right?
Yes.
What skill have you always wanted to learn
but haven't had a chance to?
Two weeks ago, I threw my first pot at a potter's wheel.
Oh.
And I've been so excited about that.
My daughter-in-law gave me that for Christmas.
And I just threw my first pot two weeks ago.
And I'm going to go back there again and do some more of that.
That was fun.
Wow.
That's awesome.
What is your word or words to live by?
Risk, fail, risk again.
Yes.
I remember that.
What is the most important quality
you look for in other people?
Hmm.
Honesty.
Name three people who inspire you, living or dead.
Certainly my mother, as a pianist, a musician,
inspires me.
I have to put my father, because he's a psychologist.
Oh, wow.
OK.
Runs in the family.
It runs in the family.
Benjamin Franklin has inspired me a lot.
He was a man that clearly had vision.
He clearly could see what was coming down the road.
And he took actions in a powerful way
to make a difference there.
And so I've enjoyed reading a lot about him.
He has so many skills.
He was an inventor, but he was a diplomat.
Amazing.
Yes.
All right.
Now, level three.
Not two more questions.
Name one piece in your current playlist.
Orange colored sky.
By?
Oh, the name just block me.
Performance anxiety right here.
I'll look it up.
No worries.
I shouldn't.
Why can't that name show up right now?
Orange colored sky.
Anyway, it's a beautiful song.
OK.
I'll look it up.
Fill in the blank.
Music is blank.
Music is life.
Beautiful.
Thank you.
So that concludes this episode of the Pianopod.
Thank you, Dr. Skidmore, for joining my show
for the second time today and sharing your stories, insights,
and expertise.
So for the Pianopods listeners and viewers,
please visit johnskidmore.com to learn more
about Dr. Skidmore's work and his program.
Of course, I encourage you to follow him on social media
at Dr. John Skidmore, I believe.
All the links are listed in the show notes.
Thank you to my wonderful audience and fans
for tuning in today.
If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review it
on whatever podcasting platform you use.
Remember to hit the thumbs up button
and subscribe to my YouTube channel.
And follow the Pianopod on social media
to get the latest piano news via Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
and LinkedIn.
I will see you for the next episode of the Pianopod.
Bye, everyone.
Thank you so much, Dr. Skidmore.
It's a privilege to be here.
I'd love to chat with all of your friends
and to see how I can support them in their quest
to create freedom on their stage with their students
and in their lives.
Great.
Thank you so much.
And thank you for your incredible support
throughout season four.
Have a wonderful summer, and we look forward
to seeing you in season five starting in September 2024.
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