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["The Star-Spangled Banner"]

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["The Star-Spangled Banner"]

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Welcome back to another episode of The Piano Pod, here tradition meets innovation.

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We bridge the timeless beauty of the piano with the dynamic pulse of today's world.

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I am your host, Yukimisou.

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Today, I invited Liam Pitcher, pianist, composer,

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and one of South Africa's leading improvising musicians as a guest of the episode.

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Liam is a dynamic pianist, composer, and educator known for blending classical music

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with electroacoustic and electronic elements.

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His career highlights include captivating piano improvisations,

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over a hundred original compositions performed in prestigious venues like the Baxter Theater,

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and innovative electronic music that merges classical composition with modern soundscapes.

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A champion of both South African and international music,

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Liam promotes a rich community of composers and musicians.

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His journey in music began with early piano studies,

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leading to significant achievements such as the Piano Prize at Bishop's School

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and top honors at the Rustenburg Piano Festival.

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Educated at the South African College of Music,

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Liam refined his talents in piano and electronic music,

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guided by distinguished mentors.

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Today, he continues to explore the frontiers of music,

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creating works that resonate deeply across the globe,

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testament to his commitment to blending traditional and contemporary sounds.

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Here we are today to explore Liam's passion for improvisation and more.

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But before we dive in, a warm welcome to new listeners

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and big thank you to our faithful TPP fans.

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Don't forget to rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

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I am thrilled to welcome Mr. Liam Pitcher to start our conversation.

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Stick with us for a reflective discussion on keeping classical music relevant in today's changing world.

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Please enjoy the show.

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You are listening to the PianoPod, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry

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about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century.

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So welcome Liam to the PianoPod.

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Well, thanks for having me on. Look forward to seeing what we have to say.

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Oh, yeah. Thank you.

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So I discovered you and then your work through Lisa Whaley.

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She is an educator, music education activist, whom really worships you.

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And then I got to interview her several months ago for this show as well.

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And then she recommended checking out your work through your YouTube channel.

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And I watched several video clips of your works. And then you're such a multifaceted pianist and musician.

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But what stood out to me was, of course, your skills as an improviser that made a significant impact

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and got me interested and eventually contacted you to interview for the show.

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And I think it's extraordinary the gifts of improvisational skills

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and the fact that you released sets of CDs of your improvisations on the piano.

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And then apart from your work as a performing recording artist and an improviser,

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you're a percussionist and engineer, sound engineer and a dedicated music educator as well, right?

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Right. Yes.

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So we have so much to talk about, but simply let's start with this.

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What does improvisation mean to you?

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I think it depends on, you know, the moment that you sit down.

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It can mean so many things. I mean, it could mean, for example, I know my teacher, for example,

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both of us are believers and he channels the Holy Spirit through his improvisations.

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Now, I mean, I am a mere peasant compared to him when it comes to improvisations.

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He can improvise a four-part fugue in the style of Bach like that.

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And then he can swap to like a six-part fugue in the style of Bach.

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And the entries will be good, you know.

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So I'm not quite there, to be clear.

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There are definitely people better than I am.

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Although I think that for me, an improvisation is a way to get into the music.

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An improvisation is a way for me to express myself in any way that I might choose to at the instrument,

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whether that manner is spiritual or whether I'm exploring something musical or mathematical.

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It's just a catalyst for my personal expression.

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And that can be a catalyst further for my enjoyment or for my development.

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It can be a catalyst for zoning out and maybe, you know, channeling the divine through mindfulness.

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It could be a way to ponder.

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It could be a way to relax, de-stress.

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It can be anything that you want it to be.

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But I think most importantly, it's for me, right?

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When I sit at that instrument, I'm playing for myself through an improvisation.

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In other words, I'm doing things, hopefully, that are interesting to me.

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And I find that if I play it, for example, an event, a live event, say a wedding or a corporate event

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or something along those lines, as soon as I make it about something else,

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that it's no longer actually about what I enjoy.

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It no longer has the same impact as, for example, the recordings that I've actually released into the world,

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which are all my essence.

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So I think that we mustn't kid ourselves when we sit down and we improvise something.

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It's almost a direct translation of your own essence through sound

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and how you are feeling in that moment, what you are in that moment.

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And that may bring your past, that may bring your ambitions into it.

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It could be anything that's such an amalgamation of millions and trillions of things that it could be.

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So I think a very nuanced and complicated question, although it sounds quite simple.

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Wow. You know, I'm a classical musician and obviously classical,

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playing classical music pieces is different from doing improv.

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And then I can do a simple improvisation on the theme of someone else, like pop songs or something,

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but to improvise and then just given this, you know, ADA keys in front of me and do improvise,

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it's a little overwhelming.

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How does your improvisational process work?

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You said you're just in the moment, you feel something.

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Or do you have any like a sort of theme in your mind when you do?

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Right, absolutely.

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So, I mean, once again, it depends.

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Like you can improvise with the intention to enjoy yourself alone and make it a selfish act, right?

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In which case, you're probably not going to be thinking too much.

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I mean, maybe if you're me, you're going to be thinking quite a bit about what you're playing.

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But you can also just see what comes to your fingers.

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Now, I personally disagree with doing this too often.

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I think that it should be reserved for recording or performance.

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That kind of true essence of letting go.

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I like to reserve that.

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I think that to play without thinking about what you're playing when you're in private,

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it's not developing you or the music or music in general in any way.

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And therefore, you can't ever hope to develop your listener in any way as a result.

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So when I sit down to improvise, I'm always thinking about what I'm playing from a music theory perspective.

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That could be that maybe I wish to observe how certain sonorities sound in comparison to one another.

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Or perhaps I wish to practice within a certain set of notes, whether that's a scale or a mode or a mode on the first or second degree of whatever other scale.

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So that could be that technical in that way.

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Or it could be like I want to explore a certain rhythmical component.

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Or maybe I want to explore that rhythmical component within a certain scale of it.

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So it depends how deep I want to go and how I'm feeling.

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But yeah, usually, at least on a basic level, it will be what can I do that's different from what I'm doing?

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It's different to what I've done before.

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I want to sit down and improvise in a way that's different every time.

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Because I truly believe that it's kind of our duty to do that.

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As people who are trained in music, we have a certain responsibility with that wisdom that we've gained to push music outside of what it is.

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And the music that I hear on the radio mostly, and that is broadcasted publicly and that is performed publicly,

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is music that is just purely intuitive, that has not been developed.

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That person that wrote that usually has not done what I'm talking about.

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They haven't fully understood what it is that they're playing.

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And I don't just mean understand it in terms of I'm playing perfect fifths, you know, and a minor or major third in a triad.

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And then I'm moving that up and down a scale.

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I don't mean understanding it in a technical way.

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I mean actually understanding how those technicalities convey meaning through music,

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which is the last art of music theory, which is the whole point of music theory,

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which is the point of translating the intention of the great composers, the score,

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through the performer into, for example, a classical music performance.

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And even that, you know, I'm a DJ as well.

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If I'm playing other people's music, I'm always going to embed my own personal touches when I'm mixing that music live.

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I mean, I'm not only just playing verbatim what someone else has written.

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And it seems to me that it's a bit of a travesty where we are now,

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that we're kind of just listening to the same song over and over again.

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And no one has done that due diligence to actually understand what came before.

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And I'm talking about popular music now because people like you and I do study this.

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But we have a responsibility as well to unify those worlds.

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So I'm trying to do that in my own way.

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But yeah, I like to sit down and think about what I'm doing to answer your question.

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Like I want to truly understand what I'm doing, not only in its sonority, but in terms of the meaning.

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And then there and also not only the meaning to me.

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Yes, there's subjective meaning, but what's the objective meaning?

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What are the comparisons?

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Because everything is ultimately just vibration.

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And there can be a relationship drawn between the vibrations of a conversation and the vibrations of music.

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There can be a relationship drawn between the vibrations of this piece of music.

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Perhaps I move up and down a certain way, I play with certain dynamics.

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And that might resemble an actual occasion between two human beings.

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It might resemble something spiritual, truly.

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It might truly reflect that.

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And I think that for me, I'm trying to find a way to convey meaning through the music as directly as possible.

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And the great composers understood this better than anyone in the Western classical art music.

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They understood this obviously in other music cultures, it was understood in different ways.

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But Western classical art music has a very special place in my heart, personally, because I think that the fact that it is based on the very vibrational structure of the universe,

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the overtone series, like our 12 tones come from that.

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And the fact that it comes from the very essence of the vibrations of the universe makes it very special.

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It means that we have the opportunity to, in my experience, convey meaning through the music.

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And that's what actually it was all about for Bach and Mozart and Beethoven.

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It was about meaning.

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And unfortunately, that's what we've lost even in modern universities.

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The university that I went to, probably the universities that you went to at this point,

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they've lost the ability to communicate what I'm communicating now.

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It's only through having teachers like the teachers that I've been very blessed to have, that I can come to understand these things.

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I'm very blessed.

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But when I look at people talking about even music theory online, for example, and I hate making it sound like my way or the highway.

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That's not what I'm saying.

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I think that what has been done before us has been so incredibly miraculous in terms of the music that's already been written.

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That to not even begin to understand that is a great travesty beyond words.

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Once you truly begin to understand what these artists have done before us.

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And I mean, when you realize the essence underlying every single note on the page,

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only through really understanding music theory can you do this.

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Not just analyzing, oh, well, that's a passing six four progression to speak in layman's terms.

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Or, well, that's a dominant 13th with a raised fifth and minus the seventh or whatever.

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That's not telling me what the meaning of the music is.

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And I feel like we've lost the ability to capture audiences hearts and souls with the beauty that is classical music, the beauty that is all music.

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We've lost the ability to actually captivate people and convey meaning through music as performers, as composers,

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because we have just simply failed to continue the beautiful tradition that was lost once upon a time when artists took it upon themselves to write highly mathematical music.

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And they said, well, we don't care what the public thinks anymore.

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And I think that that great exploration that they did was so selfish and like we haven't picked up the pieces from serialism, for example.

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We haven't picked up the pieces yet. And for me, I'm trying to pick up the pieces.

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I'm trying to reach a point where I can truly so when I sit down to improvise, to finally answer your question, all of what I've just said.

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But I'm trying to cultivate the ability to convey the very essence of meaning through music.

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And that's what I'm thinking about when I sit down and improvise music.

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And that involves understanding, yes, technically the music theory, etc.

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But also it involves cultivating the air.

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So I'm listening very carefully to the sound that's being produced.

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I'm listening very carefully to how, you know, the manner in which I move my fingers.

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What control do I have over the sound right now?

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What aspects of my playing do I need to develop?

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Now, I also can read music and I also played pre-written compositions.

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But I don't record any of those because I will only I'll probably only record those when I'm 40 plus years old.

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Because that's just the very rich tradition that my teachers come from.

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Or my teacher right now, Rache Dutoy comes from.

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That your career as a pianist only really starts when you're 40 years old.

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Because you need to spend years developing the ability to truly convey this meaning I'm talking about.

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It is so infinitely nuanced that it's almost it's sad to see people even sit down and try with the level of understanding that they have.

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It saddens me that we've lost so much.

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And so I'm trying to cultivate my own ability to just be a vessel for what it really is.

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And what it really means so that people can feel something again.

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Because I just feel like that's the only way our industry will ever become relevant again.

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Is if people can actually listen to a beautiful piece of music and feel something again.

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Truly feel what the composer intended them to feel.

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So that's what I'm cultivating when I sit down to improvise.

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Wow, you answered a lot of things because it's really my show is all about how this classical music tradition can be relevant.

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In the 21st century audience.

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So having said that, do you also think about your audience as you improvise?

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Do you also sense or sometimes you know music or even play or what we do as an artist is also you gain something from our audience, right?

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You feel something.

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Do you sense that as you improvise?

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Well, the thing is I don't improvise in front of audiences too often.

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If I do, it's any for background music at events.

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Because I mean, people aren't really in a place where they can even begin to comprehend what it means to go and sit down and listen to someone improvise on an instrument.

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Like we there isn't even the means for people to begin to understand that interaction.

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And I'm certainly not going to try and facilitate that.

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I think that there's groundwork that has to be done.

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So for me, where I engage with audiences is through DJing because that's the simplest way that I can engage with audiences.

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And absolutely, like the music that I choose to play can either make people bored and want to leave wherever we are.

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Or it can create a beautiful community healing experience between the people there can deepen the very bonds of their relationships.

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And like that's my responsibility.

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That's what I think DJing should actually be about.

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It's very little to do with counting to four and scratching and effects and all of that.

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Although those can be used to enhance this meaning that I'm talking about.

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So I think that what's nice about DJing in particular is that it gives you that direct window into the effect that music can have on people.

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Whereas if you're sitting in front of an instrument, you're looking at a score or you're looking at the instrument or you have your eyes closed and you're focusing on the instrument.

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And I think that with classical music in particular, it requires that. That's fine.

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I don't think that it's our responsibility to be great showmen of this.

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You know, I mean to like to simply sit down and play something you've rehearsed for a long while and to play it exceptionally well and to just be able to enjoy that yourself is a show enough to anyone who's listening.

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But they have to come to that performance ready to receive what you have to play.

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And they just can't do that right now. What they can receive, however, is the smash hits from the 70s till now.

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So I think that in a way I would recommend that any classical artist, whether they're composing or whether they're performing classical music, jazz, whatever, doesn't just have to be classical.

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I think everyone should do something that allows them to connect in the way that DJing does, for example.

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Just like, you know, most instrumentalists play the piano as a second instrument so that they can begin to understand music theory through the piano because it's a very easy way to see where you are.

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Right. So that's why people learn secondary piano, not so that they can play the piano, which is also what I feel like the whole mentality, you know, even as we're speaking about this, they're just gates.

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You know, we're just trapped by a system that doesn't even tell us the meaning behind why we're even learning these things.

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But secondary piano, for example, that's a means to explore, you know, what music actually is in a Western classical music sense, because it has all the 12 tones there laid out in such a way that you always know where you are.

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You can see the division between octaves clearly. And that's what it's for. It's literally a mechanism for learning. You don't have to learn how to play like a virtuoso.

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So that's something that's lost. And then you might say that it would be good for any instrumentalist to play a percussion, a percussion instrument or to play the drum kit.

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It's a rhythmical instrument so that they get a good grasp of one of the other four pillars of music.

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Our instrument tends to give us a good command of a pitch, but not necessarily rhythm.

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Perhaps it gives us a good command over dynamics, but not rhythm, maybe timbre, but not rhythm.

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So it's like we have to go back to the rhythm and to truly understand how it all works together.

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Yes, piano music theory. Great. But I think that then you could say the fifth element of music is maybe the performance, like conveying that whole unit.

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To someone else outside of you. And to do that, you actually need to understand human psychology.

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And really the best way to do that is to be in front of audiences and play music and see the reactions.

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Now you can do that by playing pop music, for example, on your instrument.

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But are you that good? Are you so good at pop? And you should maybe strive to be this good.

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But are you so good at pop that you can truly make people feel something? Because that's how people feel things these days.

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Like we see the music of the past as wonderful, as great, as meaningful.

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But in their time, I mean, they were very much writing for the audiences.

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Think about someone like Mozart, writing for the court, writing for royalty.

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He wanted to connect with his audiences, but he obviously took it a step outside of what came before.

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He had a certain genius. So I think that's what I can say.

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That's a balancing act. I'm looking for that as well.

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Like, how can I convey all of this meaning that I'm understanding to an audience?

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I need to understand what level my audience is on to do that.

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I'm not going to play Bartok for people who go on a Friday night drinking out at the nightclub with their friends and they've never sat in an auditorium.

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Not to say that there's anything better about an auditorium than going and drinking at a nightclub.

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I think like most any endeavor in this life can have meaning if we wanted to.

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But music has this ability to take us outside of what we are very rapidly if we wanted to.

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But I think that people are not in that mindset that they can actually just be willing to receive and move outside of what they are.

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I need to understand my audiences. I need to understand where they're at.

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And I need to very carefully decide how am I going to move them outside of where they are just enough that they can experience something new and not try and force them to go and listen to Beethoven if that's not what they want to listen to.

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Not force them to shut up for four movements just because that's what they did in the past.

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Right, right.

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Right. We need to move outside of what happened before before we can even talk about what happened before.

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Before we can then move back to the tradition that happened before and say, all right, well, you know, we've experienced some development through music now.

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Like we're feeling that perhaps there's a world here that we didn't know about.

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Now, this is how they used to do it in the times of Beethoven. We would actually listen to four separate movements and we wouldn't clap until right at the end.

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Then all of a sudden it makes sense. And then it's like, wow, now I'm learning about history and culture and I can actually like feel like I'm a part of something, you know.

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So there's just so much work to do. I mean, we really are not doing that work.

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We're trying to practice for thousands of hours so that we can perfectly replicate the Beethoven Sonata, which, by the way, unless you're with a teacher who actually comes from Beethoven, you're just never going to do that.

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Right. So you're just never going to find you can't find it online.

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You have to get it from the teachers who were with the students of Beethoven, you know, and Czerny, Tovi, etc.

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All those people, you need to study with those people to play Beethoven.

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Then you need to study with students of Chopin to play Chopin, etc.

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So, I mean, like we're just focusing on all the wrong things. Why are we doing all of those things before we actually, you know, find a way to bridge the gap between the audience and the music?

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Like we're not we're not working on the right things here.

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And unfortunately, the way that most classical musicians try to, you know, do this very careful balancing act is that they just completely dumb down their product to the point where they're just playing pop covers.

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And then they've given themselves over to the economic machine.

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And they haven't made an effort to try and move the audience outside of that, because we don't actually study the things that I'm talking about in music college.

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We only study how to perform a degree. You study how to perform, but you don't study how to present, how to talk to an audience and say, listen, where are you at?

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What music do you like? You know, what we're playing here tonight? This is some music that we might enjoy.

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We also think you might enjoy that. This is why these are the elements of the music you might find interesting.

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Listen out for this. You'll hear that there's a gap of silence. Don't applaud yet. There's going to be something else that happens after that.

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And through that presentation, there should be a whole field just to actually present the music to the audience.

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Like in spoken dialogue, like Leonard Bernstein was one of the great conduits of that, who actually educated audiences on what they were about to listen to and engage them and made it an engaging process.

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Rest his soul. He did so much for music. But where are all of the Leonard Bernstein's of today? They just don't exist.

284
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You know, you go to a classical music concert and you sit there and listen. And half of the time, it's just really bad, actually.

285
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And it just is like a half soul attempt to replicate something from the past. And then that's what people think classical music is. What a sad thing, right?

286
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Absolutely.

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What happened to our sense of duty and responsibility? You know, when I said to you, I'm not going to get up on the stage before I'm 40 years old and perform like a pre-written piece.

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That's how serious I am that when I get on that stage one day, I'm going to play Bach as close to the way that Bach would have played it himself on a piano.

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If he was going to perform it himself and had the necessary skill to convey himself. I don't know if he did. We only have the history books. He probably did. He probably played very well.

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But you know, like I'm trying to get as close to that as possible before I can even think about what's my interpretation of this.

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We're so focused on what's my take on this. Me, me, me. We haven't even understood. We haven't even begun to understand the very essence, the meaning itself behind the music.

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I still see my teacher every week to understand even the deeper, the subtler nuances of all of it. So that's what I'm after.

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And like I could probably convey to an audience what I'm talking about now, but that's just me. Then what about everyone else?

294
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Like, what do I do about that? I don't know. I don't have all the answers. I'm just trying to figure it out as much as anyone else is.

295
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But I think that we all have this duty. We should feel this duty that I feel that, wait a second, this power beneath our fingers to weave into the very fabric of existence,

296
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these beautiful melodies and sounds has the capacity to change the very fabric of people's beings when they listen.

297
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I better make sure that I understand what I'm doing before I do that. But in this day and age, everyone wants to be a musician.

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It's so easy. Everyone wants to be a music producer. You go download sample libraries, music banks. Great.

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You know, it's so easy to be a watered down version of something that is so divine in its essence that it could heal our very souls and spirits as a unified entity.

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You know, infuriating. So, yeah, I think that like the whole industry is just driven by ego.

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And some people might look at what I'm saying and think that I'm very egotistical to say what I'm saying.

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But music is shaping people's spirits and lives and beings in very disgusting, negative ways.

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It is affecting the way that they think about this world.

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You know, drug, sex, money and alcohol, the four great themes in all modern day pop music are propagating a disgusting spirit into our society.

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And we call that music. The music that I know is not that.

306
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I need a different word for that. That's not music to me. Right.

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So I take it very personally. And it's a serious matter.

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And I don't quite know what to do about it yet. But I'm glad we're talking about it because I think that the dialogue is important.

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But really, between people who actually care, you know.

310
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Right. But usually I usually ask these questions toward the end.

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Like we talk about our duty as a musician, performing artists and so forth.

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But you answered all these questions at the beginning. So I'm very grateful.

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But and I am with you on that, you know, in many ways.

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That's one of the reasons I started this podcast, where as a classical music musician, you know, are we just replicating something from the past?

315
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But but we are not so right.

316
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And you actually have a background in sound engineering.

317
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So does that this sort of philosophy come from that sound sound engineering?

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Because in many ways, you think music different from, let's say, quote unquote, classical musicians, because we as classical musicians, we are taught to hone our skills.

319
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You know, technique, you know, so we think about phrases, we think about musical language different from sound engineering, because sound engineers, you guys create sound.

320
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Yeah, it's a great shame that we aren't.

321
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I think that a good teacher will teach you that you actually have a divine responsibility when you sit down and you instrument.

322
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I think it comes for me from just actually years of honest, like years of studying with people who have similar views to what I'm holding right now and maybe don't even express them as extremely as I'm expressing them right now.

323
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But I've seen artists who are the greatest geniuses who've ever lived and they no one knows about them.

324
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And I myself, no one knows who I am.

325
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,400
They're going to listen to your podcast. They're going to be like, who's this guy?

326
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Right. I've spent 20 years playing my instrument and truly honing my craft to where I could say I'm probably one of the world's experts in what I do.

327
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And yet no one knows who I am because I'm playing, I'm fighting a losing battle where people can't even receive what I've spent my whole life cultivating.

328
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And I think we need to just and you know, maybe they don't need to receive it.

329
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Maybe just I need to receive it or maybe whoever needs to receive it will receive it.

330
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And that's fine. But like, wow, can you imagine if the whole world could receive it?

331
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What we would be as a species and music is just one thread in a beautiful quilt that is this world.

332
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Like, what other beautiful cultural things could we be doing to broaden our horizons, to become more?

333
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But I think music is very special because it's the very vibration of this world itself.

334
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So music in a way is special. And that's it.

335
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I don't mean that once again to make it sound like I am something special, but I think that music is something special.

336
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That's why I dedicate my whole life to it. That's why everything that I do, whether it's DJing the DJ company or this is music.

337
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,840
Right. Well, like just the words that I'm saying to you right now are precious.

338
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The words that you're saying to me are precious.

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We haven't even begun to understand what we could be if we were all unified in that.

340
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And like really sickens me where we are right now in terms of the fact that audiences can't receive what we've spent our lives developing.

341
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Is it due to lack of certain kind of training or education in terms of like in general public?

342
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It's just years of playing the same thing on the radio over and over again.

343
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And the same things that are played on the radio over and over again.

344
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You know, the reason they're played over and over again and they can be written over and over again is because they're just addictive substances at the end of the day.

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Those chords that are used in modern day pop, etc.

346
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And now, you know what? Now we're kind of starting to move outside of like the four chord space a bit, the two chord space.

347
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But like you hear things that are actually genuinely a little bit more interesting, which is really encouraging, actually.

348
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I'm encouraged by where that kind of level of music slightly above pop music is going, especially in something like electronic dance music.

349
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I'm hearing things that are pretty harmonically daring.

350
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Like people are moving outside of four-four time now.

351
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Like I'm seeing developments and that's promising.

352
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And it's faster development than we had in the 2000 year history of music that you and I know.

353
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There's something happening, but like we're not quite there yet.

354
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So I think that just awareness is important to answer your question.

355
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Like no one's talking about music.

356
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They're just playing loads of garbage over and over again.

357
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And like everyone has so much choice now because of streaming services.

358
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Now, what's really great for me is these algorithms that recommend music, they're actually getting pretty good now.

359
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So now I'm getting music that's actually good, fed to me based on my preferences.

360
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,400
That's cool. Easy to get stuck in an echo chamber for sure.

361
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:32,640
But nothing wrong with that. There's plenty to experience in an echo chamber if it's a good echo chamber.

362
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But if you're in the echo chamber of like Warner Universal Sony and you're just listening to the top 100 and that's all you know,

363
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I doubt you're ever going to be recommended something outside of that.

364
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That would be very unusual, right?

365
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,640
So I think anything in life is a double-edged sword.

366
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Like we have to raise awareness in the public that, hey, there's a whole world out there.

367
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You know, everyone's talking about the latest health supplement that you can take to feel better.

368
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,720
Everyone's talking about, oh, you can cure depression without taking sertraline or whatever.

369
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,280
Don't take Ritalin. You know, here's this alternative.

370
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,160
But man, all the healing you really need is right there on your Spotify.

371
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Literally. It's literally there.

372
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It's the very essence of what you are, in fact.

373
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And like no one's talking about it. Crazy.

374
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,880
So how can we convey that to the public?

375
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Go and listen to something that you don't know.

376
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,760
And if they don't know where to start with that, hey, it's probably up to us professionals

377
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to curate playlists that they can go and listen to, to move outside of that.

378
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Now, I don't have the time to do that.

379
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,000
And that's another issue.

380
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I would genuinely love to do something like that, but I just can't do it all.

381
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:49,960
But maybe there should be whole fields of study, like into playlist curation for the general public.

382
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,440
And maybe then we can actually move radio to a place where they're playing something really good.

383
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Not that they would want to do that because they're very happy with their addictive formula that they propagate.

384
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:05,840
But so that's one element. Then you could say, well, OK, that's got to do with what we listen to.

385
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,040
Right. And maybe how we communicate music.

386
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,840
That's one way that that it's lacking.

387
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,960
What are the other ways that it could be lacking?

388
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,320
Maybe there are other ways that it's lacking. Right.

389
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That's just one element of it.

390
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:23,800
Another way that we could be developing this is if, hey, if classical musicians didn't actually completely

391
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just sell their soul and play pop music and maybe started communicating with audiences like

392
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and bringing the magic back into live performances.

393
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:38,520
And then I think also the responsibility falls on us performers to actually take what we do very seriously

394
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so that people can experience what it actually means to watch a real musician play, you know,

395
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you're DJing or playing a guitar, piano, whatever.

396
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Classical musicians aren't special in that regard.

397
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But there's a seriousness that needs to be behind that.

398
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And that seriousness doesn't mean that you stand on stage and with a straight face.

399
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It means that you take your responsibility seriously as a conveyor of this divine vibration.

400
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,880
Have you watched the series?

401
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,480
What is it called? The Wheel of Time on Amazon Prime?

402
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:10,480
No.

403
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:17,200
Beautiful series because there's this race called the Isidari and they're women who literally have

404
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:25,840
the ability to channel the very fabric of reality through their hands to protect the general population.

405
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,920
And then that power can be corrupted.

406
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,880
And I feel like music is actually that power in real life.

407
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:36,080
I genuinely feel like I'm wielding that power, even in the words that I speak now.

408
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:43,920
Like, I know that the way that I'm feeling literally changes the electromagnetic radiation around my body, according to science.

409
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:50,000
The very atoms around me are vibrating differently depending on how I'm feeling.

410
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,160
Wow. Like, how does that tie into music?

411
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:58,480
This is what I mean when I say we haven't even begun to scratch the surface of what's actually possible in music.

412
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:05,360
And yet we have gone so many thousands of years backwards in terms of like the complexity of what is played.

413
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,600
How can we begin to move away from that?

414
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,920
We are slowly moving away from that.

415
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:16,880
But there's no effort, there's no grand effort being made towards that because I feel like, you know,

416
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,920
the record labels are very happy with where they are.

417
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,680
The radios are happy with where they are.

418
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,320
They're making lots of money.

419
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,120
Most DJs who play like, you know, what are they called?

420
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:32,680
Tomorrowland, Ultra Music Festival, whatever, Electric Daisy, all of those festivals, Q-dance.

421
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,920
They're very happy because they're making lots of money playing the music that people know.

422
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,360
Everyone's very happy except us.

423
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,120
And we can't convince them that what they're doing is wrong.

424
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:44,920
That's not going to happen, right?

425
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:51,560
But we need to maybe band together to raise awareness about this fact that, hey, there's something outside of that.

426
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:52,480
That's great.

427
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:58,680
That all that stuff's great because, you know what, it's the only way that people actually connect with music and each other through a musical experience.

428
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,280
And that's why it's doing so well.

429
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:08,760
It just so happens that they don't even understand that they're at like a primary grade level of intellect in terms of what that music is

430
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,480
and can do for the soul.

431
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:18,480
Imagine people were on like a Tomorrow World Festival dance floor, but the music had been written by the world's experts in music.

432
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,680
And they were able to receive that.

433
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,120
How transformative could one night be if that was the case?

434
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:33,960
So I think for me, the biggest thing that should be done is I think that these record labels should be paying people like you to go and teach these artists music theory

435
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,760
and to teach them about what I'm saying now.

436
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:44,520
So that they understand the power that is actually in their hands to transform or destroy humankind with the sound because it's literally that.

437
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,160
So like, but they don't care.

438
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:47,760
They're very happy with where they are.

439
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,760
And they certainly won't admit to their wrongs.

440
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,280
They'll never do that.

441
00:37:52,280 --> 00:38:03,120
So don't fight the losing battle, but like find the people that are going to receive it, who want to make a positive change and let's all band together and make a platform.

442
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,360
So I've actually have actually conceptualized the platform for this.

443
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,480
It's called Impart Productions.

444
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,560
And it's all about giving artists a platform.

445
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,760
Now it would have to be completely self-funded, which is why it's on.

446
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:19,160
You've seen it when you look at the end of the whole recordings, Impart Productions is there.

447
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:31,880
When I recorded those end of the whole piano improvisations, I didn't pay a cent because everyone that was there believed in me and the music that I wanted to play.

448
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,560
That's not because I'm special.

449
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:45,160
It's just because I actually went out and asked and I was like, hey, like I would really appreciate it if you could do this for me because I can't afford as an artist, a struggling artist back then.

450
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:46,960
Now I'm doing very well for myself.

451
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,480
But, you know, back then I couldn't afford to make a recording like that.

452
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,760
That's like a that's like a four thousand dollar recording.

453
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:54,360
You know what I mean?

454
00:38:54,360 --> 00:39:01,840
Like, how can an artist get a four thousand dollar recording when they're earning like five dollars an hour playing music?

455
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:02,920
It's just not realistic.

456
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:03,400
Right.

457
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:19,320
So there would need to be a platform that provides artists with the space to truly express themselves to the nth degree and that they're encouraged to do that and that they're paid money to do that.

458
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:24,320
And the content that is created could actually be a wealth generating asset in itself.

459
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,920
But I think it would actually just have to be completely funded.

460
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:39,480
But you would have to for me, I would want to select who I believe are the most talented people who also align with what what we're talking about now, who truly believe that music has the power to change this world.

461
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,960
And you would have to be very selective with who you bring onto that.

462
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:49,160
And then you would literally begin to fund the most insane artistic projects.

463
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,680
And people would start to see what this is what I get goosebumps talking about.

464
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,120
This is what art is supposed to be. Right.

465
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,400
What is this?

466
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,520
And all of a sudden, they'll look at the other thing and think, what's that?

467
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,160
I don't want that.

468
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,560
And that's how, for me, we affect the change through the platform.

469
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:20,200
It has to be and it has to be just, you know, with people who have their hearts in the right places, who really care about music and believe that it can change the world as it's changed our worlds and is changing our world.

470
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,080
And like, maybe that's not meant to be. And that's fine.

471
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:29,920
You know, but I hope that it is because I think that nothing will develop our species faster.

472
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,680
No technology is going to develop our species faster than what we're talking about now.

473
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:47,000
But if we want to talk about evolving into beautiful, divine order, can we start to understand how we order these beautiful vibrations around us and within us that might be worth living for?

474
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,000
Right.

475
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,960
Hey there, TPP family.

476
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:56,440
The PianoPod is now into our fourth season and it's all thanks to you.

477
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:02,480
Since 2020, you've been with my journey with the TPP, exploring this burning question.

478
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:08,600
How do we make classical music resonate with today's audience in fresh and captivating ways?

479
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,560
Four years in and the journey has been nothing short of magical.

480
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,800
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481
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:25,560
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482
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:32,600
We're together on a mission to ensure classical music doesn't just survive, but thrives in our modern age.

483
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:39,000
But here's the thing. To keep bringing you these insightful bi-weekly episodes, I need your help.

484
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:48,680
Every bit of support goes into the podcast Essentials, from hosting to high quality recording tech and the countless hours behind the scenes.

485
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,960
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486
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:56,040
Click the PayPal link in the show notes or head to the pianopod.com to donate.

487
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:04,160
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488
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:11,800
So hit the subscribe button, spread the word and let's continue our mission and journey as classical musicians.

489
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,000
Now let's continue with the show.

490
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,760
You mentioned about your CDs and the improvisation.

491
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:22,960
So I was blown away with your 10 CD albums called Informations, right?

492
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:29,160
You mentioned and then each each CD has sort of like a theme like volume one.

493
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:35,760
Each piece was titled under colors and volume two is about shape.

494
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:42,200
So this is the one that you were funded by your fans and other people.

495
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,000
So that end the whole recording was not funded.

496
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:50,120
It was just that the camera person, you know, let us use their camera.

497
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:55,960
You know, a DOP came and did it for free and someone gave us the space, etc.

498
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,680
I actually paid for the space, if I'm honest.

499
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,640
The actual filming process I didn't pay for, but they insisted that we pay for that space.

500
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,760
The end of all is very sought after.

501
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,560
And I only got it because it was covered at the time.

502
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,720
So it was actually available. You simply can't record that as a commercial artist.

503
00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:12,880
Now, I recorded those in Cape Town Sound Studio.

504
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:18,760
And ironically, it's hilarious to me that you are putting so much meaning into the names because they mean nothing.

505
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:25,320
And it was a stab at the way that people might name modern music.

506
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:33,640
Actually, I very tongue in cheekly named all of those things based on the highest Google search volume terms in any given space.

507
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,280
No way.

508
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,760
They have no meaning relative to the music.

509
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:43,560
But I just had fun imagining what people might conjure up in their minds about it.

510
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,840
I did it purely to make fun of people.

511
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,080
You know, they'll name a piece of music helicopter or something.

512
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,720
Now these EDM tracks. And it's like, why did you name it that?

513
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:54,000
What in the music conveys the helicopter?

514
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,160
You know, but it's like, no thought.

515
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,120
You haven't even begun to understand what you've written.

516
00:43:58,120 --> 00:43:59,920
Now, can you even name it? Right.

517
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:02,760
So I just I named them completely random things.

518
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,520
The names have no meaning whatsoever.

519
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:11,360
They're just 100 improvisations that were my essence at the time recorded on a very bad piano, unfortunately.

520
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,760
And I wasn't the best performer back then.

521
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:20,400
If I'm honest with you, I was only beginning to cultivate my true essence as an improviser.

522
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,600
My technique was only beginning to develop.

523
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:29,560
I mean, I had so many years that I lost in terms of technique because they don't teach playing technique anymore.

524
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,560
Not real playing technique on any instrument.

525
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:40,280
No one teaches that until I was with my current teacher, who comes from a long line of incredible performers who took me right back and corrected it.

526
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:49,000
And now I feel like even the end of the whole recording, although it's nice, I feel like I still wasn't in a place where I could even effectively convey what was within me.

527
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,840
Now I'm a step closer to that and I'll always be a step closer to that. Right.

528
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,680
So I can look back. But yeah, they're nice improvisations.

529
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:02,960
I wouldn't necessarily encourage people to go and listen to all 100 unless you just want to hear some interesting things harmonically.

530
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,440
There are a few interesting things rhythmically.

531
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:16,000
I think what is noteworthy about those improvisations is I did group each CD in terms of at first kind of like the feeling of the pieces.

532
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:25,480
There were also multi movement piano improvisations where there were like four or five in the same key where I just improvised them nonstop one after the other.

533
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,400
I think those are on YouTube as well. You can listen to those.

534
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:32,640
Those are worth listening to, perhaps because I think improvisation should be more than just one piece.

535
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,560
Sometimes we can actually improvise a whole suite with breaks in between.

536
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,960
So that was like an exploration that may be worth listening to is the suites that are in there.

537
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:52,720
And if you just want to hear like really raw, kind of a raw unhoned like intent of somebody who has learned music theory and has been studying music for a long time and has studied with a creative genius,

538
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:59,000
but isn't really effectively able to control that raw kind of wisdom.

539
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,960
I think that would be a good framework to listen to my improvisations that have been released.

540
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,120
Now, one day I hope to fully get that under my command, but I don't feel like I'm there yet.

541
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,720
You know, like will I ever be there? I don't know. That's what I'm striving for.

542
00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:14,480
So, yeah, I think viewing it in the right lens is important.

543
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:19,640
And I think just the way that I've communicated it to you now is the way we should be talking about all music.

544
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:26,640
Where was that person at when they wrote that? Hey, like if you go listen to a pop hit, like is the producer who wrote that trained in music?

545
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:32,160
If not, you probably want to know that. So, hey, I'm not trained in music. I know these chords. I think they sound good.

546
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:40,200
I thought they sound good as a backing to Miley Cyrus' voice, whatever that means, right? That it sounds good as a backing.

547
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:46,640
You know, just like it immediately just reveals itself for what it is as soon as you start talking about it.

548
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:53,960
You know, the word has that power. So if we actually just start asking questions about what information we're receiving,

549
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:58,560
and music is a type of information for sure. Maybe if people actually start asking questions,

550
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:03,880
and people are starting to ask questions about a lot of things now, maybe they should start asking questions about music as well.

551
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:09,880
Hey, what is this that I'm actually listening to? What are the lyrics to that? Let me Google that. What? I'm singing along to that?

552
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:17,160
Oh, no. You know, what a terrible thing that I'm repeating those disgusting lyrics that are on the radio every day.

553
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:23,600
What's that doing to my brain? So I think the questioning, becoming self-aware is a part of that as well.

554
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:32,120
Perhaps very important. But how does one even begin? Maybe just with conversations like these.

555
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:37,480
Maybe we need to talk about this every week for the next 10 years and just release it.

556
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:41,360
And just maybe I'll promote it for $100 on TikTok and see what people say.

557
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:47,960
Maybe that'll get the conversation going. And then we can just post loads of these clips and just shove them in people's faces,

558
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:52,760
just like everyone shoves everything in people's faces. Maybe that's the answer. Maybe that will get people thinking.

559
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:57,160
If someone radical like me starts saying these things and they see it all the time,

560
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:02,280
maybe that will start like spark the conversation and give people the courage to stand up and say the same thing.

561
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:11,160
Because I know that there are hundreds of thousands of souls like me who feel this way and they can't necessarily articulate it.

562
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:16,480
Maybe they don't feel it, but they don't feel like they have the courage to say something or they might feel like,

563
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,960
well, if I say that, then people are going to hate me or maybe I'll be rejected or maybe I'll lose that job.

564
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:27,200
Maybe no one will hire me then. What's good about my circumstances for me is that I own my own life.

565
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:34,040
So I don't work for anyone. I decide where I work. I book myself. People contact me to book me.

566
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,440
No agency owns me. They don't own my thoughts. They don't know what I say.

567
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:45,000
So because of that, I can say these things. And if anything good is going to come of it, because it's the truth and people feel that.

568
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,640
And I'm not trying to force it on anyone right now.

569
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:52,680
I don't publicly say these things because I know how radical they are.

570
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:58,520
But I think that if someone started saying them, maybe more people would start saying it.

571
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,960
Maybe people would start banding together and agreeing.

572
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,760
And maybe that's how the platform can actually become a thing.

573
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:08,320
I have to compliment you. You're an excellent listener. You haven't interrupted me once this whole time.

574
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:13,800
So that, you know, and like you give me a place now where I can just speak about this for an hour and a half.

575
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,520
This is actually going to be published is incredible.

576
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:24,240
I'm not going to go. You know what I mean? I'm not going to go and record myself talking about this as if I am some great authority that you must listen to.

577
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:33,600
You know, because that is the whole reason this whole world is so like just malformed and mal run and malgrown.

578
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:39,400
We've just lost completely our purpose here. We just have no idea what we are.

579
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:47,560
Truly. And as soon as you don't know what you are, then you can become anything else. You can be possessed by anything at that point.

580
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:54,240
And anything can maybe feel like what you are. What a sad thing, especially what you hear, especially what impulses guide you.

581
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:58,360
So, you know, maybe we have to start listening a bit more. All of us. You're such an excellent listener.

582
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,800
You literally have barely said a word this whole time. And you've given me an opportunity to speak.

583
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,600
Usually I'm the one listening. Right.

584
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:14,680
It's nice. Maybe and maybe when we all start listening, we'll start hearing things from people who maybe didn't have much to say because we were talking over them.

585
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:20,160
Right. Absolutely.

586
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:31,880
And that's a wrap for the first part of this engaging episode on the PianoPod with the esteemed South African classical pianist, composer and improviser Liam Pitcher.

587
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:37,720
If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform.

588
00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:41,840
You can also watch this episode on the PianoPod's YouTube channel.

589
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:48,600
Please find us on social media to get the latest piano news via Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn.

590
00:50:48,600 --> 00:51:01,880
All the links are in the description. Tune in next Tuesday, March 26th at 8 p.m. for the rest of the interview with Liam Pitcher.