1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 the more we notice in music, the more interesting we may find it to be. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:10,640 And to that end, we have found that providing a listening guide 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,480 can be very helpful in noticing all sorts of things in music. 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,760 So let's jump right into the Infernal Dance of King Kostry 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,840 from Igor Stravinsky's 1919 suite, taken from his ballet 6 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:26,160 The Firebird, originally composed in 1910. 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,880 At number one in your listening guide it says, 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,240 the melodic pattern is played how many times? 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:37,040 And also asks, which instrument joins the French horns and bassoons? 10 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,520 So here's the pattern one time. 11 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,960 Would you like to listen to that again? Here it is slower. 12 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:56,160 Sing it with us on da da da as we play this pattern slowly at number one. 13 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:01,600 Oh, hold on. Let me get the orchestra going. 14 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,560 Now I know that you can sing that with much more energy. Okay, here we go again. 15 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,320 Yeah, much better. Now you fill in the gaps in your listening guide 16 00:01:20,320 --> 00:01:26,560 in the information before we get to number two. 17 00:01:50,320 --> 00:02:04,880 Is something funny? Okay, so how many times did the pattern occur? 18 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:11,760 Zero, right. Some of you may have noticed that was not the same piece of music. 19 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:18,560 And we played the wrong piece of music on purpose just to see if you were really listening. 20 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:26,160 That music was from an opera about another legendary bird in Russian folklore. 21 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:30,480 In this case, the Golden Rooster, composed by one of Stravinsky's 22 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:35,520 teachers and perhaps his strongest influence, Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov. 23 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,960 And Stravinsky found a lot of inspiration for his ballet score The Firebird 24 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:46,400 in his teacher's opera, The Golden Rooster. Stravinsky also learned from Rimsky-Korsakov 25 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:52,880 how to choose which instruments play which notes in the score, a technique called orchestration. 26 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:58,160 But playing the wrong music also gives us an opportunity to briefly discuss 27 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,880 the difference between hearing music and listening to music. 28 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:11,120 The truth is we have all been trained to ignore music as a kind of sonic wallpaper. 29 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:16,560 The electronically reproduced music that accompanies almost every activity in our lives, 30 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:22,000 dining in restaurants, shopping at the supermarket, driving in our cars, waiting in waiting rooms. 31 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:28,560 We could make a very long list of things we do every day while music is in the background. 32 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:35,440 We have to make a conscious decision to actually listen to music, to make it the center of our 33 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:42,960 focus and to be completely present with the music. So knowing that we must choose to listen, 34 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:47,440 once again at number one in the listening guide, we'll ask you to keep track of how many times 35 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:52,800 the pattern occurs before we get to number two and which instrument joins in at the end 36 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:58,720 of this short pattern. We promise not to tease you this time. 37 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:12,240 Well, the instrument that joined at the end of the phrase was which? 38 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:21,120 Tuba! It was the tuba. The unique sound of each instrument is just one of the things that we can 39 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:27,920 focus on if we decide to give music our undivided attention. Another aspect or element we can pay 40 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:34,640 attention to is the form of the music. How the music is put together, as in how many times did 41 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:39,760 the melodic pattern occur before we got to number two in the listening guide and that was? Three. 42 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,840 Three. Exactly. Three times it is. 43 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,600 Hello, piano enthusiasts. You are tuned into the PianoPod with me, 44 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:55,520 Yukimi Song. Today we're delving deeper into the second installment of this season's sixth episode 45 00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:02,640 with the phenomenal conductor, educator, and TV personality, Maestro George Marion Amal. In case 46 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:08,880 you missed our captivating conversation in part one where we explored Maestro's fascinating journey 47 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:14,560 with the Discovery Orchestra, a groundbreaking New Jersey-based musical initiative focused on 48 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:20,480 teaching, listening skills, and dedicated to transforming classical music experiences for 49 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:26,160 general audiences through innovative engagement with classical masterpieces, don't worry, 50 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:31,360 you can catch up on all the excitement on your favorite podcasting platform. 51 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:37,760 A warm welcome to all our new listeners. This podcast is your all-access pass to the captivating 52 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:43,600 world of piano. In each episode of the PianoPod, I interview a guest speaker who has been breaking 53 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:49,360 exciting new ground in the industry. Please rate the show and review it on your favorite podcasting 54 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:54,720 platform because every rating review will help people discover my show. 55 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:04,080 So as we approach the season of Thanksgiving, we want to extend our heartfelt gratitude for 56 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:10,560 your loyal listenership. Since 2020, we've been exploring how to make classical music resonate in 57 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:17,600 fresh ways with today's audience. To keep bringing you these episodes, we rely on your support. 58 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:24,000 Every contribution aids in covering essential podcast expenses. So do you want to be part of 59 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:30,080 this journey? Click the PayPal link in the show notes or visit the pianopod.com to donate. 60 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:36,880 I'll personally mail you the PianoPod's snazzy logo sticker as a token of gratitude. So my friends, 61 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:44,560 here is part two of the PianoPod's season four, episode six with Maestro George Marino-Mall. 62 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:50,560 Please enjoy the show. Where does this passion come from? I really want to know your life, right? 63 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:56,880 Uh-oh, are you sure? Are you sure? Oh, yes, I'm very sure. You are, you know, obviously, 64 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:03,200 classical musician. You started out as a violist and then the conductor, an amazing 65 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:10,240 accomplished conductor, and then TV radio personality, educator, and producer. So can 66 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:15,680 you share the story of how your journey with classical music began and what inspired you to 67 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:22,560 become a musician and that led to be an educator and a conductor? Uh, fasten your seatbelt. 68 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:23,380 Okay. 69 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:32,160 You know, the story began absolutely with my mother, Helen, who was very well-trained and 70 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:37,760 accomplished classical pianist and was the neighborhood piano teacher in my neighborhood 71 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:43,040 in Philadelphia where I grew up. And I sometimes wondered because I know that babies, while they 72 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:51,120 are still in the womb in the last month or so in the womb, apparently hearing begins to develop. 73 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:58,320 And I've thought to myself, how many times did I hear my mother practice that Chopin etude or that 74 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:05,760 Debussy Prelude or that Mozart sonata while I was still inside her? You know, it's like I was a 75 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:13,200 captive audience. She would sit at the piano and of course practice every day. And then once I was 76 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,920 born, you know, although I didn't understand or realize what was happening, obviously at the 77 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:23,680 beginning, there was music going on. It seemed like 24-7 in our house. You know, she would invite 78 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:29,360 other musicians in, string quartet members to play with her or opera singers from the Philadelphia 79 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:36,320 Lyric Opera to come over and sing while she played for them. So the seminal event, because we talked 80 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:42,240 about this, we all, you said we all remember that moment when we were first so moved by some 81 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:48,720 classical music. I was four and a half and of course living at home just before I started 82 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:54,720 kindergarten. My mother had purchased an LP recording of Dvorak's New World Symphony. 83 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:01,040 Now we lived with my mother's mother, father, and aunt. So there were seven of us in the house, 84 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:06,720 including my brother, me, my mother, father, and these other three individuals. And so my mother 85 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:13,280 was out shopping for groceries and my great aunt was babysitting me. And the mailman arrived with 86 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:21,200 this LP record. So I didn't know what it was, but Aunt Enda knew what it was and she got out our 87 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:28,640 portable department store monophonic disgusting record player. I mean, the sound of this device 88 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:34,720 was really inferior and it even wasn't wired properly. The tone arm could give you a little 89 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:41,600 shock electronically sometimes. But in any event, Aunt Enda said, I will put this record on. And 90 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:50,720 I was absolutely transfixed as a four and a half year old. I began crying. I was having goosebumps. 91 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:58,640 I had never heard violins playing so high or, you know, crescendos that took over the room, 92 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:04,720 even on this stupid little Monoroo record player. The sound of that symphony orchestra just really 93 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:12,800 got me. And so I divide my life in two parts. There is before Dvorak, first four and a half years, 94 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:19,360 and then there's everything that happened after Dvorak. Now, my mother, of course, began giving 95 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:24,880 my brother and me piano lessons as little children, quickly realized that not probably a good idea to 96 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:30,960 teach her own children music. They may not give it their best. So she farmed us out to piano teacher, 97 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:37,760 friends of hers. So we each were studying with colleagues of hers. And then my mother and father 98 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:44,480 and grandparents decided to send my brother and me to an Episcopal choir school for boys called St. 99 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:52,720 Peter's Choir School in Philadelphia. School had been started in 1836 or something as a day school 100 00:10:52,720 --> 00:11:00,720 for kids, co-educational. But in the early 1900s, it then was switched. The organist who switched it 101 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:06,560 was trying to model the cathedral choir schools of England. And so he made it only for boys. 102 00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:11,600 And so the education now would not only include a lot of academic preparation. I mean, when I 103 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:19,920 was there, we had to stay in addition to math, science, history, English, Latin, French, and 104 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:25,840 other things. We also had sightseeing class, mandatory piano lessons every day after school. 105 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:33,600 There was a rehearsal. So this was a very thorough saturation in music. And it was really, 106 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:39,600 that was when I became a performer. I mean, all the boys in the choir felt like performers 107 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:45,520 because we sang two services a Sunday, every Sunday from September through June, and with 108 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:51,760 different repertoire. And during seasons like Lent, in the evening, we would sing a different cantata, 109 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:58,320 Bach cantata, or something else. So there was a lot of repertoire to learn. And in addition to the 45 110 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:05,520 minute rehearsal after school every day, on Friday, after some playtime, you had dinner with the men 111 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:12,480 of the choir in the cafeteria and then rehearsed with the men. Because of course, we sang in four 112 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:17,760 part harmony in church. And then on Sundays, there was a rehearsal before each service. So 113 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:23,280 it was a lot of rehearsing and there were special concerts. I mean, we would sing Messiah at the 114 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:28,000 Academy of Music with the members of the Philadelphia Orchestra accompanying us. I mean, 115 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,480 when the Philadelphia Orchestra needed a boy choir, we were the choir that would perform 116 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:37,280 with the Philadelphia Orchestra when they needed a boy choir. So, you know, we felt 117 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,440 like we were something. Right. 118 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:49,600 We had a real identity. So obviously, it was a tremendous shock to leave the choir school 119 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:55,360 and begin eighth grade at my local junior senior high school in Philadelphia. I went from having 120 00:12:55,360 --> 00:13:02,640 45 boys in my school. So like my classes only had like six or seven kids in them, 10 at the most. 121 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:09,440 It was like being tutored in all these subjects. So here I get to a school that has 5,000 students, 122 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:16,960 co-educational. And I was scared to death. But my mother knew that that public school had a really 123 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:24,480 good music program. And so she felt that I would flourish there once I got over the shock of being 124 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:32,320 with so many other kids every day. So it worked. And this was the next most important moment in my 125 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:38,880 growth as a musician, because the choir director was very fine. She was a very fine vocalist herself. 126 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:44,400 And a very fine conductor. The director of the orchestra was not the greatest conductor in the 127 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:50,240 world. But, you know, he was more than willing to lend me a stringed instrument when I finally got 128 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:55,840 up enough nerve in 11th grade to ask if I could borrow a stringed instrument from the school. 129 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:00,080 They had all these instruments that they would lend to kids for free. And they would give you 130 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:05,680 lessons on these instruments. But anyway, so in 11th grade, I asked the orchestra conductor if I 131 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:11,120 could borrow something. He said, I have a cello and I have a viola. And I said, I think my grandmother 132 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:16,480 plays the cello. I'll take the cello. Now, I had already fallen madly in love with the sound of the 133 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,480 strings of the orchestra. And that was for just going to the Philadelphia Orchestra concerts as 134 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:25,840 a child. My mother would take us and also some of the members of St. Peter's Church would have 135 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,600 subscriptions at the Philadelphia Orchestra. When they couldn't use the tickets, they would give them 136 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:35,600 to the choir boys to go to the concerts. So I was listening to the Philadelphia Orchestra live, 137 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:41,360 all the time. And that sound of that string section just captivated me. So at a certain point, 138 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:46,000 I got up enough nerve to ask this gentleman if I could borrow this cello. He said, come back this 139 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:52,080 afternoon. And he said, I have a cello and a viola. And when I got back, and I know he did this on 140 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:57,920 purpose, because he didn't have enough violas in the orchestra. He feigned absent mindedness. And 141 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:04,160 he said, oh, I gave the cello to someone else. Would you take this viola? That is how George 142 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:10,560 Mariner-Mowell became a violist. Totally by accident. So in any event, the other really 143 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:16,480 important thing that happened at this school was the first year there in eighth grade. It was again, 144 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,000 one of the... They didn't have middle school in those days. They had junior high schools and 145 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,400 senior high schools. And junior high school was seventh and eighth grade. And then senior high 146 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:29,680 school was ninth, tenth, eleventh and twelfth. So when I got there in eighth grade, sitting in the 147 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:37,280 cafeteria, first week, I'm sitting and I hear coming down the hallway, the New World Symphony, 148 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:43,440 the finale. And I'm thinking, I got to find out where this music's coming from. So I left my 149 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,920 lunch and went down the hallway. And there was a separate wing for all the music classes and 150 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:53,680 ensembles. There were two large rehearsal rooms and one smaller rehearsal room in several classrooms 151 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:59,120 and offices for the faculty. But it was built in such a way that the noise pollution that 152 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:05,840 musicians make did not reach the math classes and the English classes. We were walled off from the 153 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:10,560 rest of the school. So I walked down this corridor to get to the music wing. And of course, the music 154 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:16,480 was pouring out of this room. And the first thought that I had was, why are the students not 155 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,760 misbehaving? Because I grew up in a working class neighborhood and all my friends thought that my 156 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:29,520 obsession with classical music was rather nutty, eccentric. What's wrong with this kid? Because 157 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:35,680 it wasn't that I didn't like rock and roll. I loved Elvis Presley. I loved the Everly Brothers. 158 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:44,480 I had my own 45 records of 45 RPM records of them. But most of them really poo-pooed classical music. 159 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:50,800 And so I'm thinking, the teacher in that room, he must either have bound and gagged the students 160 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:57,760 or something because there's no peep coming out of them. They're just sitting there. So I sat down 161 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:03,680 outside the classroom. And after a few minutes, Mr. Feinberg, the teacher who ultimately got his 162 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:10,320 doctor's degree, Dr. Feinberg, he came out and said, wouldn't you rather sit in a chair? Why don't 163 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:16,960 you come into the room? Saul Feinberg's whole mission in life was to teach teenagers how to 164 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:24,080 listen to classical music. And he had written his doctoral thesis on this subject and developed a 165 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:31,360 course which he called the Perceptive Listening Course. I learned everything I know about teaching 166 00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:36,800 music listening from that man. Now, because I was in the choir, I mean, obviously coming out of St. 167 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,440 Peter's Choir School, the choir director grabbed me immediately and put me into the choir because 168 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:48,960 I could read music and all those good things. So I thought, well, I'm just going to have to come to 169 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:54,720 this class on my lunch hour and go as often as I can. So I began attending his classes, strictly 170 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,520 auditing them, not for credit, not for anything, because I did not have to take those courses. 171 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:04,720 No one who was in a music ensemble had to take this music listening course, but everyone else in 172 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:12,640 the school did. So he affected the lives of thousands and thousands of kids over the decades 173 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:18,320 he taught there. And he was a very fine pianist and a composer. Eventually I asked him to be my 174 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:25,440 piano teacher. And so I had three years of studying piano with him as well. But I just soaked in his 175 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:32,080 methodology. It's he who believed that answering problems, giving people problems to solve by 176 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:39,040 listening was the best way to teach this material and also to tease them and taunt them and make 177 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:45,120 sure they had that aha about whether they were listening or not. He would set them up so that 178 00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:51,840 students would say, well, that's not fair, Mr. Feinberg, because he would say, I'm going to give 179 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:57,920 you all the grade of C, just all of you. And they would say, that's not fair. And he said, of course 180 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:03,360 it isn't. But why don't you say that when I ask you to give your complete attention to this next 181 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:10,320 piece of music? I could say you're not being fair. And of course, adolescents are possessed, 182 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,920 preoccupied with the idea that life is not fair. And of course it only gets only gets worse as we 183 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:25,040 become adults, as we know. We accept this idea somehow, to some degree. But in any event, he was 184 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:33,360 a genius. Now, the man is still alive. And when I got out of music school in Louisville, no one in 185 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:38,240 Louisville who played in the Louisville Orchestra or the opera company or the ballet orchestra or 186 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:43,840 whatever, none of them made enough money to live off it. So everyone had a day job. And all 187 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:49,120 professional musicians rehearsed at night. The Louisville Orchestra rehearsed at night. So you 188 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:53,920 had people in the orchestra who taught music at a local public school or like my stand partner in 189 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:58,400 the viola section worked for the newspaper. He worked for the Louisville Career News, you know. 190 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:03,040 And there were just all sorts of people in that orchestra who were very fine musicians, highly 191 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:08,400 trained, but had other day jobs. And the principals of the orchestra were the faculty members of the 192 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:13,040 University of Louisville School of Music. But when I got out of school, I realized I'm going to have 193 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:19,200 to get a day job now. So I took a job teaching at a private school and having had very little 194 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:24,800 instruction in music education at the university because I was a performance major on the viola. 195 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:30,160 I called Dr. Feinberg and said, I'm going to come up and visit my dad for a week in Philadelphia. 196 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:36,720 Can I just hang out at your house all day long and talk to you? And so I did that. And he, well, 197 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:42,080 before you get here, I want you to order a copy of my doctoral thesis from the University of Michigan, 198 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,080 where they had copies of all these things on microfilm or something. And they would print 199 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:52,160 you a copy of a thesis. He said, before you get here, read my thesis and then we'll talk about it. 200 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:59,040 So I did that. And of course, it was an unbelievable week. And it only added on to what I had experienced 201 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:04,480 as a young man in Lincoln High School sitting in his classroom, you know. And he really helped guide 202 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:12,000 me into what I would do with the kids at private school. So put that experience into George Moll. 203 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:18,400 Now, George Moll is married to a wonderful woman who's an opera singer. And I told her, 204 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,440 if we don't move out of Louisville, you will never sing anywhere but Louisville, Kentucky. 205 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:29,200 It just, you know, we have to move to New York City. We have to find you an agent. And then if 206 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:36,000 things go well, you can have a career as an opera singer. So in 1975, we moved to New York City. 207 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,640 And it was scary because I didn't know anybody in New York City, very few people, you know, just an 208 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:46,720 occasional person, here or there, someone I'd met at the Aspen Festival in 1970, whatever, you know, 209 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:53,600 but no real contact. And so my first wife and I got there, rented an apartment. And of course, 210 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:58,720 I started playing the viola with anybody who would let me play with them. You know, in other words, 211 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:03,280 I met someone who was a musician. I said, can we play quartets together? Because I wanted them to 212 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:08,320 be able to tell the people who were the personnel managers and contractors for the freelance 213 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,960 orchestras, this guy plays well, you know, hire him, hire him. And of course, I joined the union, 214 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:18,320 all that sort of thing. Now, my wife's career, we got her an agent, and her career took off. 215 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:25,680 And she was away for six months out of each year for a few years running there. And not all at once, 216 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:30,960 but she made her Carnegie Hall debut that first year we were there with the Oratorio Society of 217 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:37,840 New York, singing the Bach B Minor Mass as a soloist. And, you know, I was super happy for her. 218 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:43,040 Problem was, it was difficult for us to keep our marriage intact, being apart from each other so 219 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:48,560 much. And so at a certain point, we just decided that we would amicably part company. Not that that 220 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:55,200 wasn't traumatic, because we had been married for 10 years. But here began my life in New York. 221 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:01,920 And it was challenging. We were constantly running out of money. And we would call her father in 222 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:06,960 Louisville and say, can we please borrow x amount of money? And he would say yes, knowing we never 223 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:12,000 would be able to repay him. And then the next month, we would call my dad and say, Dad, can I 224 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,880 go in part with some money for the rent or whatever, you know? Long story short, you know, 225 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:22,640 I finally began to be able to support myself as a violist. I got enough work. And when I was playing 226 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,920 with the freelance orchestras in the city, and I also, you know, my first wife said, Hey, George, 227 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,840 you sing very well, you know, from your training at the choir school and that sort of thing. 228 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:37,120 I'm going to give you voice lessons. And I want you to audition for a church job where you will 229 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:43,280 be the baritone soloist. So I got a church job at a church in New Jersey where I was the baritone 230 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:49,200 soloist, in addition to playing the viola. And I also auditioned for and became a member of the 231 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:54,720 professional choir of the New York Philharmonic at that time, which was called the Comorado Singers. 232 00:23:54,720 --> 00:24:01,280 And that was when I got to sing under Pierre Boulez for the first time as a member of that 233 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:08,800 chorus. So there were lots of very exciting experiences to go through. Obviously, I was 234 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,520 totally bewildered and amazed and in love with New York City. It seemed like the greatest thing in 235 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,520 the world. And I remember my friend from the Aspen Festival, who had lived in New York for 10 years, 236 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:26,160 already said, enjoy it while you can, George. It will get to you after a while. But in any event, 237 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:31,680 at a certain point, I became a violist for the Opera Orchestra of New York, which is 238 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:37,680 conducted by a woman, Eve Queller, who had founded that ensemble. And they were giving 239 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:44,480 concert performances of unknown operas by people like Verdi and Puccini and all the canon of 240 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,520 composers, but operas that never get staged at the Met or anything like that. And they would do them 241 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:55,760 just singing them, stand up singing them with the orchestra. And she would hire world famous 242 00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:01,840 singers to be the leads, Montserrat Caballé, Marilyn Horn, people like that. It was just, 243 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:08,560 it was amazing. And then the lesser roles, she would populate with young singers. She would go 244 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:14,720 on trips to Europe to find young singers who were unknowns. So they would come over and sing the 245 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:21,280 other lesser roles. And she was so good at picking singers. Often after a performance with the Opera 246 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,680 Orchestra, the next year, they would wind up being offered a contract at the Metropolitan Opera. 247 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:32,000 You know, she launched their careers. It was just, it was incredible. But what a thrill. I mean, 248 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:38,480 she was the first conductor to hire me. And what a thrill that first January to be sitting on the 249 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:46,160 stage of Carnegie Hall, playing with this wonderful orchestra, this incredible music. And so I loved 250 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:51,040 that life quite a while, but I still wanted to be a conductor. That was something that had entered 251 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:56,560 my mind in the choir school, watching Philadelphia Orchestra, watching Eugene Armacee conduct the 252 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,200 orchestra. You know, it was, you know, I just thought I would love to do that. But I never 253 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:06,400 told anyone for a long time. In fact, when I told my viola teacher in the Philadelphia Orchestra 254 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:11,200 that I wanted to do this, just before I left for music school in Louisville, I said, I want to be 255 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:21,680 a conductor. And he said, are you out of your mind? I just loved it, but I persisted. And of course, 256 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:27,120 I was very lucky in Louisville. Before I left Louisville, I had become the conductor of the 257 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:32,880 Louisville Ballet and the assistant conductor of the Kentucky Opera and the conductor of a choral 258 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:38,400 group there, as well as a theater that did Broadway shows. So I, you know, I was getting a lot of 259 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:43,520 conducting experience, and it was a lot to give up to move to New York City to help my wife's career. 260 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:48,080 And she had a lot to give up too. She was already on the voice faculty at the university by that 261 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:56,800 time. And, you know, it was hard to pull up roots again. But we struck out for New York, and it all 262 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:03,440 paid off because Eve Queller asked me at one point to be her assistant conductor. This allowed me to 263 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:09,680 sometimes prepare the chorus for the Carnegie performances, and it also allowed me to work on 264 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:15,280 the parts for the orchestra. She needed help in making sure the parts, you talk about how the 265 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:21,200 orchestra at my concerts are right on the button, you have to mark the parts for an opera incredibly 266 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,720 carefully, because there are often cuts. This entire section of music is left out. So you have 267 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:33,680 to mark them so that the musicians are in no way tempted to play the music. And her rule was if they 268 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:41,200 can't see it, they can't play it. So whereas the usual method was to make a vertical mark, and then 269 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:46,240 make a slanting horizontal mark to the music that you want them to go to, and put another vertical 270 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:52,000 mark at the beginning of that measure, she would have me cut up paper, scrap paper, and paste it 271 00:27:52,000 --> 00:28:00,080 over, scotch tape it over the part she didn't want them to see. So they never played the wrong music 272 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:05,680 in rehearsal or in concerts, because we made sure the parts were absolutely prepared for that 273 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:14,000 performance. And in any event, she liked me. And now that my marriage had ended, I remember there 274 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:19,760 was an occasion when I told the personnel manager of the orchestra that I was dreading the next week. 275 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:25,440 And he said, why, George? And I said, well, I'm going with my first wife to tell her Southern 276 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:32,560 Baptist parents that we have decided to divorce. And he says, boy, that sounds bad. Now, as it 277 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:38,640 turns out, Marcia, my present wife, was a rehearsal pianist for the Opera Orchestra of New York. 278 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:44,400 She'd been playing in piano rehearsals with Marilyn Horn and Montserrat Caballé and 279 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:50,720 Nikolai Gettner and whomever, you know. So she overheard this conversation. Now, I knew Marcia. 280 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:56,480 I thought she was very cute. And she was listening to this conversation. Now, I had never anything 281 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,920 to do with Marcia except professionally at the Opera Orchestra. But she seemed like a nice person. 282 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:07,280 But she came up, she said, you know, George, I had this same conversation with my parents 283 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:13,200 a couple of weeks ago. My husband and I are divorcing. I said, oh, she said, when you get 284 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:19,040 back from Louisville, why don't we go out for dinner and trade war stories? She asked me out 285 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:27,280 on our first date. That was March 11, 1979. Wow, you remember exact date. Oh, I do. At a certain 286 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:33,760 point, I was told about an opportunity at the League of American Orchestras to study with an 287 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:41,760 Austrian conductor named Richard Johannes Lert. Now, Dr. Lert had played in the Berlin Philharmonic 288 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:48,800 under Artur Nikish, who at the turn of the 19th century was deemed to be the greatest conductor 289 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:54,160 in the world at that point. And Dr. Lert not only played under him in the Berlin Philharmonic, but 290 00:29:54,160 --> 00:30:01,040 also became a conducting student of his. Dr. Lert's parents had been friends of Johannes Brahms. 291 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:07,040 And when Dr. Lert was a little boy, Brahms had bounced him up and down on his knee when his 292 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:14,800 parents would visit sometimes. So this man, and Dr. Lert had also studied conducting with Richard 293 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:23,280 Strauss. So his credentials were unbelievable. And because his wife had a career that he felt was not 294 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:30,320 advancing in Europe, he made the decision because she was a Hollywood film script writer to move, 295 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,960 I mean, she was a film script writer, to move to Hollywood, California, so that she could have a 296 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:41,920 bigger career as a script writer. So he became the conductor of the Pasadena Symphony and stayed there 297 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:49,360 for many, many decades. And at a certain point, his reputation as a conductor and guru and teacher 298 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:55,600 began to spread. And so the League of American Orchestra said, Richard Lert, Richard Johannes 299 00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:02,320 Lert, his parents had named him for Brahms, his middle name, Richard, would you teach 10 American 300 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:09,920 conducting students each summer with an orchestra, how to conduct? And he said, I will. So this program 301 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:17,040 started, it went on for many, many years. And I heard about it. And I had to ask for a recommendation. 302 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:22,480 So I asked Eve Queller to write a recommendation. And then I asked Lucas Foss, who at that time was 303 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:27,120 the music director of the Brooklyn Philharmonic, which I also played in. He also wrote a recommendation 304 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:33,760 for me. And so they invited me to audition for a fellowship to study with this man. I did the 305 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,560 audition. The audition was with the New Jersey Symphony on this East Coast. The people who 306 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,560 auditioned were in the East Coast. And I was selected as one of the 10 people to go study with 307 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:50,080 this man, who held forth in Virginia. They had this ancient resort that it was built during the 308 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:57,280 Civil War era. Big hotel, wooden hotel, little wooden cabins. And that's where they had this. 309 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,760 And they would play in the ballroom of this hotel. It's where the orchestra would assemble 310 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:08,320 and Dr. Lert would work with his students. So anyway, that was another total seminal moment 311 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:13,280 in my life. He was the greatest conducting teacher I ever had. And he certainly was one of the 312 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:20,400 greatest conductors I ever saw conduct. He, with his eyes and little gestures of his hand, could 313 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:26,160 elicit the most unbelievable responses from an orchestra. It was quite something to behold. 314 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:33,040 So anyway, after that, a year later, the music director of the New Jersey Symphony, who had 315 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:38,560 watched me in the competition to get this fellowship, conduct his orchestra. He remembered me. 316 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,520 And when he needed an assistant conductor, out of the blue, called me in my apartment in Manhattan 317 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:50,080 said, George, he was Polish, George, I might have some work for you. Come have lunch in Newark. 318 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,960 So I go over to Newark and I almost dropped my spoon in my soup. When he outed with, I'd like you 319 00:32:54,960 --> 00:33:00,800 to be my assistant conductor. I thought you've seen me conduct for like 10 minutes in this audition. 320 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:09,280 Anyway, I guess he liked what he saw. So that was when I got my first real big with a larger 321 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:16,000 ensemble conducting job. And things have sort of progressed from there. It's been a wild ride. And 322 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:21,760 I wanted for the worst way just to be a symphony orchestra conductor at that point. I mean, my 323 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,760 first goal had been get a job in a symphony orchestra like my teacher in the Philadelphia 324 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:30,080 Orchestra play in the symphony orchestra. I did that, then get some conducting work, which I did, 325 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:36,720 and it seemed like that was the main driver. But somewhere on the way to the forum, as they say, 326 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:43,920 in that play, I realized that the best thing I could do with my time, however much time I have left, 327 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:52,240 is to try to help people be very moved by this music. What could I do to do this? And that's 328 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:57,200 really what started us on this road that we're on right now with the Discovery Orchestra. I just felt 329 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:03,600 like I had to reach as many people as I could with what I call the good news of classical music. 330 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:14,160 It's a life force that once you become entangled with it, it changes your life forever. I knew from 331 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:20,240 age four and a half, remember? But where was the turning point where you wanted to be the conductor? 332 00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:27,840 Then in the end, you wanted to do this work. Yeah, right. Well, we had started the Philharmonic 333 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:33,760 Orchestra of New Jersey. That began when at a certain point, I realized I wanted to have my own 334 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:39,520 professional orchestra, and that's a very difficult thing to achieve. You can audition for those few 335 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,560 jobs that come up. You can submit your resume and go meet the board members and what have you. 336 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:51,280 But without an agent, it is very difficult to get a really decent conducting job in this country. 337 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:56,320 So I thought, I know the freelance players. I've been one of them. I know these people. 338 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:01,760 I'm going to start an orchestra in central New Jersey where there is no orchestra and will play 339 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:07,200 symphonic concerts for the audiences out there. So that was the rationale behind starting the 340 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,600 Philharmonic Orchestra of New Jersey. Now, I would tell any conductor who thinks this idea, 341 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:18,560 don't do it. You're nuts. I mean, it was anguishing to create the Philharmonic Orchestra 342 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,000 of New Jersey, but we did. I mean, there were rough patches, times when I thought we were going 343 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:28,480 to totally run out of money, but didn't. And we got it going so that we were a respected concert 344 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:34,240 series to go to at that point. And as I said, playing at Richardson Auditorium and also in 345 00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:41,360 Princeton and also at the Art Center in Newark. And we were going all guns blazing. I mean, 346 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,520 the orchestra had a good reputation. We got wonderful reviews. Although I said, 347 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:51,440 that's not important to me as much as hyping the concerts before they happen so that an audience 348 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:57,920 wants to attend them. But it was all from starting that music listening class in response to people 349 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:03,920 asking us, what can I do to learn about classical music? And then it was sort of like, all that work 350 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:10,160 with Saul Feinberg came blasting into my brain. And it was like, we have to do more of this. And 351 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:16,320 the thing just snowballed until, you know, the board said, this is the most important thing we do. 352 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,640 This is what other orchestras are not doing. We need to do this. 353 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:28,640 Wow. So since the start, the whole entire, let's say concert series at the time, concerts were 354 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,920 all like you are holding the microphone and say, 355 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,880 All Discovery concerts. Yep. Everything we would do was a Discovery concert. 356 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:44,240 You know, you also have the, as a skill set as a presenter, TV host, where does that come from? 357 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:51,120 St. Peter's Choir School. One of the courses that every child, every one of the 45 students who were 358 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:57,680 there at any given time had to take was a course in public speaking, taught by the choir master, 359 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:05,120 who was also the headmaster of the school. He was a very fine public speaker and he made the kids, 360 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:10,560 first of all, there was a recitation contest every year. Sometime in the spring, you would be 361 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:16,080 required to either recite prose or poetry from memory in front of your parents and your 362 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:21,200 grandparents and all the other kids in the school. Prizes would be awarded for what they thought were 363 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:28,480 the best recitations. And in the weekly classes, you had to extemporaneously speak on a given 364 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:34,400 subject. Dr. Gilbert would give you a subject to speak on, and then he would have you go out of the 365 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:41,360 room, and while you were out of the room, he would point to various kids to do distracting things 366 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:46,320 while you were talking. In other words, he would tell this kid to drop his pencil at a certain point 367 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:52,960 on cue, and this person to rustle a piece of paper or whatever, just to try to get you jolted while 368 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:58,880 you were doing your extemporaneous speech. I never had training like that before or after in my life. 369 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:05,440 It was incredible. Now, because I felt so comfortable talking to people, when I got to high school, 370 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:10,560 I joined the debate team, which also put me in front of other people. But anyway, 371 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:17,680 so it was the choir school. The choir school gave all of the students who went there an amazing 372 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:24,000 education, not just musically, which it was amazing musically, but public speaking. How about Latin, 373 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:29,680 you know, when you're in seventh grade, you know, you don't do that normally. The kids who went there, 374 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:34,720 many of them were middle class or lower middle class, one scholarship. There were a few kids 375 00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:40,080 from the upper classes, you know, from wealthy families, but most of us were not. And so he had 376 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:48,080 his hands full, you know, turning us into polished little kids who could function well in polite society. 377 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:55,840 But I guess you were prepared to be who you are today. I think so. It made a difference. And it's 378 00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:01,200 interesting because many of the choir school graduates also became professional public speakers 379 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:07,520 in that many of the choir school graduates became Episcopal priests. So they had to speak publicly 380 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:14,160 every Sunday and also had to be speaking in other situations as the rector of some Episcopal church. 381 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:19,120 It affected many, many people, lawyers, there were a bunch of lawyers that came out of that school. 382 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:27,280 I mean, life is long and then also beautiful, but also challenges and then so many unexpected 383 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:33,200 twists and turns. Yeah, I mean, you know, and the reason that my mother sent us to the choir school, 384 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:40,160 my mother's mother and her father, my grandparents had a job as the servants of a wealthy family 385 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:45,520 on the main line of Philadelphia. I don't know if you're familiar with Ugimi with the main line. 386 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:51,120 There's this string of communities on the main line of the railroad. That's where the term comes 387 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:57,280 from. And these are people who are incredibly wealthy, wealthy. They're the tycoons of industry 388 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:04,400 and the CEOs of big corporations in Philadelphia. And they live incredibly extravagant lives 389 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:10,320 in this area called the main line. One of the towns is called Ballachinwyd. It's a Welsh name, 390 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:15,280 Ballachinwyd, Pennsylvania. And they're all suburbs of Philadelphia. And these people are 391 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:20,240 on the boards of things like the Philadelphia Orchestra and the Lyric Opera and the Philadelphia 392 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:25,840 Pennsylvania Ballet, et cetera. They, you know, they just, they're big people. My grandparents 393 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,800 were the, my grandfather was the gardener and my grandmother was the maid for this family. 394 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:37,600 The daughter of this family was married to the priest and rector of St. Peter's Church, 395 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:43,680 St. Peter's Episcopal Church. And they said to my grandmother, your grandsons must go to St. Peter's 396 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,080 Choir School, which she had never heard of in her life. That's how they found out about it. 397 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:53,120 All these little twists and turns, it's, you know, you just can't. 398 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,760 I have to say you're meant to be who you are. 399 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,200 And I feel that way. 400 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:02,960 Yeah. Maybe this is not something that you dreamt of as a child or as a young person. 401 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:09,920 Well, my mother did not want me to become a musician. She felt that it was a very precarious 402 00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:16,320 life in which you were apt to have many disappointments. She definitely was disappointed 403 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:21,120 that she did not have a career as a performer. You know, she did a lot of accompanying. She also 404 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:27,360 played the organ for a church, but she was disappointed that she did not have a solo career 405 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:32,400 as a pianist. She certainly played incredibly well, and I can still hear her playing in my mind's 406 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:39,040 ear. But sadly, when I was a senior in high school, she contracted cancer and she died. 407 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:47,040 And on her deathbed, we had these conversations in which I said, Mom, I know that Nana, my 408 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,360 grandmother, my grandmother wanted both my brother and me to become Episcopal clergymen. 409 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:57,520 That was her dream for us. And I, my brother actually went through with this and became one, 410 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,760 although he left the church at a certain point, but he actually did what Nana hoped he would. 411 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,880 And I was sort of on target to do it. But I said to my mother, I want to go to music school. 412 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:12,000 I just, I want to be a musician. And she said, no, it's terrible life. Don't do it. Finally, 413 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:17,120 after enough of these conversations, she said, okay, I give you my permission to go to music 414 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:22,480 school, but you must promise me you will never marry another musician because you will both be 415 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:29,360 poor together. Can you imagine your dying mother saying such a thing to you? And of course, 416 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:38,960 I've done it twice. You gave me two musicians, but you know, what can I tell you? It's, I'm 417 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:44,000 I'm certainly glad I went to music school. It was definitely felt like where I wanted to be. 418 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:53,200 And I really can sense your passion and love for music through everything you do. 419 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:58,080 I would hope that comes through because it's definitely felt on my end. 420 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:04,480 It's contagious. That's why I was like in tears and watching that video and really feeling love 421 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:09,360 with music all over again. That's a really fantastic sensation, right? Because I remember 422 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:16,400 the first time when I heard the Beethoven fifth symphony in the music school and then fell in love 423 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:25,120 with, you know, right. And how scary that triplet sounded, you know, yes, yes, it sounds really 424 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:31,200 foreboding. I know. I mean, people have said all sorts of silly things about it's Beethoven 425 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:37,360 knocking on some doors, something, you know, no, it's it's a statement about Beethoven's feeling 426 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:47,440 life, his internal life of feeling. And he was one angry dude. And I understand. I get it. I mean, 427 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:54,320 what I mean here was a brilliant pianist, you know, capable of being out there on stage with 428 00:43:54,320 --> 00:44:01,840 the best of them and now to lose the ability to hear sound in real time, you know, ouch. 429 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:08,320 Yeah. Such an eye. I must be such an isolating feeling to not a lot of people would understand 430 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:17,280 that. Yes, exactly. Cut off from friends circles and what have you. It just because of his suffering. 431 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:25,840 He is one of my favorite composers because he was so willing to bear his emotions to us and 432 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:32,560 we all suffer from time to time. Yeah. Yeah. But that's why this work is important. That's why 433 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:39,200 music is important. That's why classical music is important. So what is your thought on keeping 434 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:43,920 classical music relevant in this fast paced, crazy world? 435 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:52,960 In this fast paced, crazy world? To me, the only way is to teach as many people as possible 436 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:59,280 to listen. In other words, I can't tell them stories. I can't show them movies about the 437 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:04,480 life of a composer. I can't, you know, I can't go down the street with a bullhorn like some 438 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:09,520 campaign for office and say, come to the concerts. You know, you're going to really, I mean, 439 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:16,160 that's not practical. Somehow. I often say that if I were the king of the United States, 440 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:20,800 which I am not and never will be, we will never have a king if I have anything to do with it. 441 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:29,520 But I would decree that every child would study the art of listening to music in school 442 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:34,880 so that like the people who grew up in Hungary, having been raised on the Kodály method, 443 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:41,200 I mean, when I conducted in Budapest, the one time I conducted there, conducting Carmina Burana, 444 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:48,640 I will never forget the sensation of the audience because I knew that they were all trained to read 445 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:55,680 music at site and were very musically literate. I've never felt an audience so clinging to every 446 00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:00,720 sound that we made that night. And so it's not that it can't be done, but of course, that was a 447 00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:06,000 socialist country with a dictatorship. And it was just decreed that everybody would study the Kodály 448 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,840 method in school. You know, so I don't know if it's, I don't know. It's still the case at this 449 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:16,080 moment under Urbán. I have no idea. But it was definitely the case at that point. And that's what 450 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,320 I would do to try to make it happen. Now we can't do that, right? That's not going to happen in the 451 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:25,760 United States. So the question is, what is the method by which we can teach the most people how 452 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:32,160 to listen? And I'm convinced it's electronically. In other words, if we can somehow get someone to 453 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:37,600 click for just a minute, click onto something that catches their fancy or their attention. 454 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:43,600 I mean, obviously I'm always telling people you will never have an experience like this. If you 455 00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:49,280 have this experience, you will become addicted to it. Although it's not a drug, it's completely 456 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:54,480 addicting. You know, why is this so important? Why the classical music is so important to us? 457 00:46:54,480 --> 00:47:00,800 Because I think it changes our lives in ways that we cannot even imagine. First of all, 458 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:08,800 because we learn to listen to music and feel our own feelings very strongly, we also begin 459 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:14,160 to feel the feelings of the composers, these other people. I mean, it's an amazing thing that someone 460 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:20,720 has been dead for more than 100 years can, through the goodwill of a bunch of musicians who are 461 00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:26,640 reproducing the score that they created. It's like they're sitting in a room with this pouring out 462 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:33,200 their deepest feelings about everything. So in terms of developing a sense of empathy in life, 463 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:39,280 I think that's a very important reason to become sensitized to art, including painting and sculpture 464 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:45,920 and poetry, all of the arts. But music, I've always felt, is the most direct route into our hearts. 465 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:50,880 It's like an electrical force. You can't even see it. You can't touch it. As Saul Feinberg always 466 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:55,440 said, it's invisible. And it's not like a painting that you can hang at the Philadelphia Art Museum, 467 00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:00,880 and it will always be there. You can go look at it whenever you want. This thing occurs in time, 468 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:07,760 and then it's gone. So if you're not there with it every second, you're going to miss something 469 00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:14,080 important. I mean, when Brahms changes that one chord, the last time that melody comes back, 470 00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:20,320 if you're there from the beginning, it will seem shattering, just earth-shatteringly, emotionally 471 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:27,440 moving to hear that one chord change. Same thing with a Bach chorale, you know. But I think if you 472 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:34,320 were severely emotionally disturbed in some way, if you were filled with so much either self-hatred 473 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:41,200 or I don't know what, sadly, you might not receive those benefits from classical music. But I think 474 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:48,560 most people, certainly more than the less than 5% of the American population that regularly listens 475 00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:53,120 to classical music, and I mean listen, not hear, not have it on in the office while they're working 476 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:57,680 in the office or have it all while they're cooking in the kitchen. No, actually, you know, something 477 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:04,480 less than 5% of the US population sits down and listens or stands and listens, whatever they do, 478 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:09,840 but gives it their undivided attention. That percentage needs to grow somehow. 479 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:20,000 That's right, yes. Maestro, I can be with you forever talking about wonderful... 480 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:27,520 Well, I won't tell Marsha you said that, but it's really nice to be with you. 481 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:34,560 So I know we have to really end our conversation soon. So before we go, I just want to say to my 482 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:42,800 audience that the Discovery Orchestra is obviously available on YouTube channel and also you have a 483 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:50,240 podcast show notes from under the piano. And then also you have... So for Discovery Orchestra, 484 00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:57,920 you can go to discoveryorchestra.org and then your app is Aha Classical App. So you can find them on 485 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:05,440 any app store, correct? And on PBS Passport, our television shows are there. If you're a member 486 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:11,680 of your local public television station, you get free access to PBS Passport. You can watch any shows, 487 00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:18,960 including ours, on that particular site online. And trying to think if there's any other venue. 488 00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:24,480 Well, again, you can tune in to the radio online on second and fourth Saturdays of the month, 489 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:32,320 730 www.fm.org. So before I let you go, we have one more thing to do, which is the rapid fire 490 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:39,840 questions where I get to ask fun questions. So no explanation is needed. So let's go. 491 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:47,120 All right. All righty. What is your comfort food? Comfort food is chocolate. How do you like your 492 00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:55,840 coffee? With cream and artificial sweetener. Cats or dogs? I love both, but cats have been 493 00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:01,120 my pet of choice through most of my life. I've had both. Love dogs, but cats are it. 494 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:09,600 Summer or winter? Neither. Fall is my favorite season. Okay, yes. What skill have you always 495 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:16,880 wanted to learn, but haven't had the chance to? I would say to play the electric bass or the 496 00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:25,120 acoustic bass in a jazz ensemble and improvising. Improvising, yes. What is your word of words to 497 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:31,920 live by? Love one another. Beautiful. What is the most important quality you look for in other 498 00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:39,440 people? A genuineness. Someone who does not have pretense or some facade that you feel like you're 499 00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:45,200 getting right to them when you meet them. Name three people who inspire you, living or dead. 500 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:50,880 Well, obviously we're going to say Saul Feinberg. We're going to say Richard Laird, 501 00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:57,840 Richard Johannes Laird, and Marcia, my wife. Beautiful. Name one piece in your current 502 00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:03,520 playlist. In my current playlist, Bach, Brandenburg, concerto number four. 503 00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:10,880 What do you believe is the key to a fulfilling life? Learning to appreciate yourself fully 504 00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:16,480 and other people. Last question. Fill in the blank. Music is blank. 505 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:26,080 Music is the world to me. Ding ding ding. Thank you so much, Maestro. It's been a wonderful 506 00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:31,840 conversation and this concludes this episode of The Pianopoe. Thank you, Mr. Moll, for joining 507 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:37,120 my show today and sharing your stories, insights, expertise. You can learn more about Maestro Moll 508 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:43,120 and his incredible work at the Discovery Orchestra. Please visit their website at 509 00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:49,600 discoveryorchestra.org and don't forget to check out the interactive music appreciation app, 510 00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:55,200 Aha Classical, at ahaclassical.com. All the links are listed in the show notes and thank you to my 511 00:52:55,200 --> 00:53:00,240 wonderful audience fans for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review 512 00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:07,040 it on your favorite podcasting platform. Remember to hit the thumbs up and subscribe to my 513 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:12,640 YouTube channel if you are watching this episode. Follow The Pianopoe on social media to get the 514 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:18,000 latest piano news via Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. I will see you for the next episode 515 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:23,600 of The Pianopoe. Thank you, Maestro, once again. Yukimi, thank you so much for inviting me to be 516 00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:38,480 your guest. Thank you.