1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,240 The thing that I was reflecting on as far as Juneteenth was concerned is the fact that 2 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:15,880 you know if you put yourself in the mind of people who were enslaved at that point you 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,720 know when they got that announcement it was a General Gordon Granger who made the announcement 4 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,240 in Galveston, Texas. 5 00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:28,960 You have to imagine what it must have been like to have your world be as big as the plantation 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,280 that you worked on and then suddenly your world got a whole lot bigger. 7 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:38,240 And what black people chose to do with that freedom I find is absolutely extraordinary 8 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:44,720 because within like a couple of decades you had young black men studying classical music 9 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,140 and living life on their terms. 10 00:00:47,140 --> 00:00:52,360 And so this is what I wanted to celebrate like this artistic drive and this incredible 11 00:00:52,360 --> 00:01:18,200 spirit that sort of pushes us forward as black people and as Americans. 12 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:23,240 Welcome back to another episode of the PianoPod where tradition meets innovation. 13 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,960 We bridge the timeless beauty of the piano with the dynamic pulse of today's world. 14 00:01:27,960 --> 00:01:30,520 I am your host Yukimi Song. 15 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:36,480 I am immensely proud of this new season's guest lineup who are incredibly talented and 16 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:42,320 dedicated in their craftsmanship and bring a rich tapestry of diverse experiences into 17 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:43,320 this show. 18 00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:48,720 I truly appreciate their willingness to be on the PianoPod to share their thoughts and 19 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:54,440 expertise and I really can't wait to unveil each episode to you letting their stories 20 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,320 inspire, educate and resonate. 21 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:02,920 Now I trust you've had a chance to dive into our previous episodes and I am genuinely 22 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,660 curious to know your thoughts about them. 23 00:02:05,660 --> 00:02:13,000 So please share your feedback on social media or drop us a note on our website at thepianopod.com. 24 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,000 Your insights are valuable in shaping the direction of the show. 25 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:22,120 Today's episode features an artist whose journey in the piano world is deeply rooted 26 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:28,760 in her background, Caribbean and African heritage and whose performances resonate with audiences 27 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:29,760 worldwide. 28 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:35,440 So let me introduce our guest for this episode, Dr. Nena Ogwo, pianist, educator, founder 29 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,800 and artistic director of Juneteenth LP. 30 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:44,200 She's graced stages from Europe to the Middle East, South America to the Caribbean and of 31 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,440 course the United States. 32 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:52,240 Whether it's a grand concert hall or an intimate gathering, Nena's captivating warmth ensures 33 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:57,240 everyone feels welcomed, which is central to her mission of broadening the horizons 34 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,520 of classical music audiences. 35 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:05,080 In 2019, Nena took a bold step by founding the Juneteenth LP. 36 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:10,600 This collective shines a spotlight on the artistic brilliance of the African diaspora 37 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:15,360 through the unique lens of Black classically trained musicians. 38 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:22,280 Nena has been the driving force behind Juneteenth LP, both as a pianist and executive and artistic 39 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:23,520 director. 40 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:29,200 Her dedication was recognized in 2022 when she received the Chamber Music America Artist 41 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,280 Grant. 42 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:36,400 This accolade transformed her annual Juneteenth celebration from a one-night event at Joe's 43 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,200 Pub at the Public Theater to a week-long New York City extravaganza. 44 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,980 Dr. Ogwo's piano journey began at the tender age of six. 45 00:03:45,980 --> 00:03:52,200 She honed her skills at prestigious institutions like Peabody Prep, Oroling Conservatory, 46 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,000 The Liszt Academy of Music, and Stony Brook University. 47 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:01,720 She has been honored with the Stern Scholarship, Turner Fellowship, and the Fulbright Award. 48 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:08,520 Today, Dr. Ogwo is sought after as a concert pianist, chamber musician, concert curator, 49 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:13,640 guest lecturer, and faculty member at various esteemed music institutions. 50 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:20,160 And for those eager to experience her magic, her solo piano album, Luminous, was unveiled 51 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:25,180 in May 2023 under the MSR Classics label. 52 00:04:25,180 --> 00:04:30,280 Before getting started with this special episode with Dr. Nena Ogwo, I want to welcome all 53 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:32,000 our first-timers to the PianoPod. 54 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,560 I'm a classical pianist and educator from New York City. 55 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:40,200 Whether you're diving deep into a piano career, working professionally in the classical 56 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:45,440 music scene, or simply have a passion for piano tunes, this podcast is your backstage 57 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,080 pass to the fascinating piano world. 58 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:53,080 I also want to welcome back and thank you to amazing TPP fans and faithful listeners 59 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:54,920 for tuning in today. 60 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:59,840 Please rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform because every rating review 61 00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:01,840 will help people find the show. 62 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:07,040 So dear TPP fans and listeners, I can't wait to interview Dr. Nena Ogwo to hear about 63 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:13,280 her remarkable musical career and learn what Juneteenth LP is all about. 64 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:19,080 So stick with me till the end of our conversation as it will lead to a more reflective discussion 65 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:25,040 on how we trained classical musicians should keep classical music relevant and thriving 66 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,860 in today's rapidly changing world. 67 00:05:27,860 --> 00:05:35,240 So here we go, dear friends, please enjoy the show. 68 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,520 You are listening to the PianoPod where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry 69 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:45,760 about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century. 70 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,120 So welcome Nena to the PianoPod. 71 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,920 Thank you so much for being here. 72 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,480 I love your room. 73 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:53,560 I love the painting. 74 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,760 I recognize the painting in your background. 75 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:01,820 You know, when you're doing things on a shoestring budget, you use what you have. 76 00:06:01,820 --> 00:06:06,160 And I decided this will be a lovely background for my website. 77 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:07,960 No it looks like a million bucks. 78 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:09,640 I mean, yeah. 79 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,440 And I recognize it from your website, right? 80 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,840 Yeah, it actually is the first piece of art that I ever bought in New York. 81 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:17,840 Really? 82 00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:23,120 Yeah, there used to be a public auction house called Tepper Galleries on East 25th Street. 83 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,920 And I was with my mom and I was bidding on it. 84 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,720 And my mother was looking at me like, what are you? 85 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,920 That looks terrible. 86 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,500 But I had this huge living room with tons of wall space. 87 00:06:34,500 --> 00:06:38,920 And when I put it up, she was like, oh, okay, okay. 88 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,360 Pretty dramatic and powerful. 89 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,960 But when I was bidding, she thought I was nuts. 90 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:51,560 Wow, but somehow it just captures the essence of my impression of you. 91 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:59,800 Anyway, so our mutual, I guess, friend or colleague, Rosemary Caviglia. 92 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,400 She is a fellow pianist and educator as well. 93 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:07,440 And my colleague at the Non-Profit Organization, we are both part of, is a faithful listener 94 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:12,120 of the PianoPod and such a wonderful supporter of what I do. 95 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:16,760 And then she emailed me a few months ago and suggested that I should interview you. 96 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,400 And so I'm very excited. 97 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:19,880 The biggest shout out to Rosemary. 98 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:25,480 If you are listening, Rosemary, I am sending you positive vibes and appreciation for introducing 99 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,520 Nana to the PianoPod. 100 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:33,780 While I was learning about you to prepare for this interview, even within this big umbrella 101 00:07:33,780 --> 00:07:38,640 of music or music industry, you do wear many hats. 102 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:44,000 Not only the pianist and educator, but also you are a composer, arts advocate. 103 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:51,040 And among many things you do, what I'd like to focus today in this episode is your passion 104 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,360 project, Juneteenth Legacy Project. 105 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,220 And you're a founder and executive and artistic director. 106 00:07:57,220 --> 00:07:58,800 So let's start with that. 107 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,920 So what is Juneteenth Legacy Project? 108 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,000 Is this an organization, program? 109 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,400 Who is this for? 110 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,720 First of all, I want to correct you on one thing. 111 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,200 We are actually called Juneteenth LP. 112 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:16,400 The LP does stand for Legacy Project, but there actually is a Juneteenth Legacy Project, 113 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,200 which is an arts-based organization in Houston. 114 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,680 And I encourage people to find out who they are and what they're doing. 115 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:23,680 They're doing really great work. 116 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,480 But it was one of my first lessons in business. 117 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,160 I did not grab that domain name. 118 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,500 I did not grab it immediately. 119 00:08:32,500 --> 00:08:36,360 And so, you know, I went back to it three months later and it was gone. 120 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,800 So we became Juneteenth LP. 121 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:45,000 But we are a music collective of classically trained, mostly classically trained musicians 122 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,420 of the African diaspora. 123 00:08:47,420 --> 00:08:54,720 Our mission is to introduce people to classical music by African diaspora composers, but the 124 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,840 gateway is more familiar music to them. 125 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,480 So we play music of all genres. 126 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:06,280 Toshi Reagan, the amazing musician, artist, activist, had a series at Joe's Pub called 127 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,440 Her Good Folks series. 128 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:14,160 And she invited me to do this, to do a Juneteenth show, because I had said that's what I wanted 129 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:15,160 to do. 130 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:19,480 She invited me to do the Juneteenth show at Joe's Pub in 2015. 131 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,560 And in May of that year, my mother passed away. 132 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:23,880 So it didn't happen. 133 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:30,360 For 2016 and 2017, I shared the event with two other artists, which was a wonderful experience. 134 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:35,120 And through that sharing, the artists that they brought in, I got to meet some of them. 135 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:41,360 And so as we were giving these concerts, the concert was my way of introducing people to 136 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:42,840 classical music by black composers. 137 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:50,080 And so I played Ulysses Kay and I played William Grant Still and I played David Baker and Dorothy 138 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:51,680 Redmore. 139 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:55,080 And people really, really enjoyed it. 140 00:09:55,080 --> 00:10:00,080 And it was funny because, you know, I started the program and then the other musician ended 141 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,080 the program. 142 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,840 And, you know, what they were playing was much more contemporary. 143 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,120 I thought even though, you know, there are these two sort of very distinctly different 144 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,400 styles, people were really, really receptive to the music that I was playing. 145 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,480 But I think that they were not just receptive to what we were playing, they were receptive 146 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,680 to the fact that I talked about the music. 147 00:10:20,680 --> 00:10:25,640 I talked about the composers, I talked a little bit about their lives and about maybe what 148 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,840 they were going through when they wrote the pieces. 149 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:34,840 And I talked about how the music spoke to me and I invited the audience to engage with, 150 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:36,480 you know, what did they hear? 151 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:41,520 And in the first year, actually, or maybe the second, I did something really interesting. 152 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:47,960 I played a bunch of Scriabin preludes, the Opus 16 preludes, and there are five of them. 153 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,720 And I played them all. 154 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:55,640 And then I turned to the audience and I said, well, before I said, you know, there are this 155 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,400 set actually reminds me so much of Nina Simone. 156 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,680 And I'm curious if you hear what I hear in it. 157 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:06,160 If you don't, it's fine. 158 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,320 But if you do, I'd like to know which one of the preludes. 159 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,200 And so I played them all. 160 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,440 And there was one that I was specifically thinking about. 161 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,320 And they said number one, number five, number three. 162 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:25,360 And I thought, huh, because number four was the one that I absolutely attached. 163 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,720 Absolutely attached to Nina Simone. 164 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:33,080 There's something very haunting and lonely about her voice when she's singing ballads 165 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,360 or even when she's singing tunes that should be a little bit more upbeat. 166 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,220 There's still a profound sadness sometimes that comes through. 167 00:11:41,220 --> 00:11:49,080 And so this this prelude, which just has this melody, da da da da da da da da da da da 168 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,720 and then chord chord and then the harmony changes. 169 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:53,720 Right. 170 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:58,120 And that I mean, it broke my heart every time I heard it, every time I worked on it. 171 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,600 And I said, so number four, no one. 172 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,400 And then, you know, the audience went, oh, yeah, I could I hear that. 173 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:06,400 You know what I mean? 174 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:12,400 But everyone had different ideas of what different things appeal to them. 175 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,960 And I thought, you know, music is is fascinating. 176 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:17,640 There's what I think and what I feel. 177 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:22,600 And then there's everybody's going to receive it in a different way in a different context. 178 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:28,760 I was kind of struck by the fact that this was a real opportunity to have a much more 179 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,920 intimate relationship with the audience than I ever would. 180 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:32,920 Right. 181 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,480 Because normally we get on stage, we play, we bow, we maybe say a few words, maybe about 182 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:37,920 our encore. 183 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,680 And then, you know, that's done. 184 00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:45,320 And so there's this kind of mystery of being a classical pianist or musician or performer. 185 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,200 And this way, I got to talk to people about, you know, my process and what I was thinking 186 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:55,200 of and why I chose this and, you know, the connections from composer to composer. 187 00:12:55,200 --> 00:13:01,840 And so finally, in twenty eighteen, I had met enough musicians who were really interested 188 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:06,360 in what I was doing and really sort of like, yeah, we want to support you. 189 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,840 We want to do this and we want to support you. 190 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,400 And you know, that is really profound and significant, especially in New York, because 191 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,300 it's very hard to make a living. 192 00:13:15,300 --> 00:13:16,640 It's very hard to. 193 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,600 It's just the daily grind is hard. 194 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:25,280 And when musicians say, yeah, we're willing to rehearse every week, every two weeks, and 195 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,480 we're willing to put in this time and we're willing to. 196 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:28,900 We want to. 197 00:13:28,900 --> 00:13:33,480 We do want to give concerts in the community and we do want to do outreach. 198 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:39,400 And they kind of trusted me to find the money, you know, and sort of helped with like there 199 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,860 are two people specifically who became part of the team, you know. 200 00:13:43,860 --> 00:13:47,940 And so we sort of together were able to build something. 201 00:13:47,940 --> 00:13:52,640 And I know I don't take any of that for granted, like as much as it says, you know, I'm the 202 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,320 executive and artistic director. 203 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,840 Yeah, this was a team and it is a team in a lot of ways. 204 00:13:58,840 --> 00:13:59,960 Just to go back a little bit. 205 00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:07,360 So I read your bio and then Juneteenth LP was officially formed in the year 2019, I believe. 206 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:13,000 That's a year before the, you know, of course, largest Black Lives Matter movement in 2020. 207 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,840 And then so when I visited your website, I also heard the audio file of your statement 208 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,560 in 2016 at the Joe's Pub in downtown Manhattan. 209 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:26,940 So what to become of Juneteenth LP down the road. 210 00:14:26,940 --> 00:14:29,600 So spend years in the making, right? 211 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:30,600 Yeah. 212 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:31,600 Yeah. 213 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:36,200 And what really inspired you is it sounds like it's a gradual thing to form this. 214 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:41,960 But was there a specific event or experience that really inspired you to create it? 215 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:47,680 Or was it more like a gradual thing, started something small and became what it is today? 216 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,880 Definitely there was a seed and the seed was this annual Juneteenth celebration at Joe's 217 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,280 Pub. 218 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:58,280 And then the more musicians that I met that were kind of simpatico with this idea that 219 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:04,840 I had, the more I realized this could be something more than just one show, you know, in the 220 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:05,840 year. 221 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:11,740 And, and also I started paying attention to how people were reacting to the concert. 222 00:15:11,740 --> 00:15:17,200 We got a lot of kids coming up to musicians with stars in their eyes, like, I didn't know 223 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:18,800 the violin could do this. 224 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,720 You know, we had this violinist who wrote this piece called Evolution. 225 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:28,920 His name is Ed Hardy and he sort of musically charted in this piece, you know, music and 226 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,400 it went from spirituals to hip hop and scratching on the violin. 227 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,440 And it was really kind of potent. 228 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,960 But what was really amazing was watching these kids say, I play violin and I didn't know 229 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:40,200 I could do that. 230 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,920 I didn't know it could be like that. 231 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:48,500 To watch him and the other musicians interact with these kids, like, yeah, there are tons 232 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:50,440 of things you can do with this instrument. 233 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:55,660 You know, this is, you know, the whole point of practice is to play and explore and to, 234 00:15:55,660 --> 00:16:01,340 so I was really kind of moved by that and realized that we could reach people in a way 235 00:16:01,340 --> 00:16:04,040 that was so much greater. 236 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:09,800 Classical music audiences are small and we're, our concern is that it's dying off, right? 237 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:14,600 That it's definitely an older community that really, really loves classical music and then 238 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,240 grew up with it. 239 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:21,000 And I think that my mom's generation is probably the last of the generation that sort of classical 240 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,560 music was in the general, in the air generally, right? 241 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,320 Now classical music is very sort of specific. 242 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:35,600 And because it's specific, if you don't know the language and you don't know the codes 243 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:41,000 to get in, you don't know how to access it, even if you love it, this provided an opportunity 244 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:46,720 to reach so many more people and to reach people who would not necessarily think that 245 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,640 they love classical music, but that they hear it and they go, that was, that was gorgeous. 246 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:52,720 Or that was so interesting. 247 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,320 I'd like to know more about this composer. 248 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:00,720 One of the things that people ask me a lot is what is the impact you want your ensemble 249 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,920 to have and then what is the impact you think it actually does have. 250 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:13,480 And I think that I would say that what I want is for it to open people's ears, you know, 251 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,040 in people's minds and open people's hearts. 252 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:20,760 Nina Simone is, was interviewed once and she said, you know, we're all walking through 253 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:27,040 the world in a way, a little dead inside, like we're, we're, we're just getting through 254 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,920 our day, you know, and we're dealing with our things. 255 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,360 And so we, we don't really see what's around us and we don't really interact with what's 256 00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:35,360 around us. 257 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:36,360 It's just, we're getting through. 258 00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:39,560 And so we're all walking around kind of like zombies. 259 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,480 And what I want, what she said, she said, what I want to do with my art is I want people 260 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:49,320 to feel something, anything, just to feel something, to shake us out of that space. 261 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,580 And I thought, you know, that's it. 262 00:17:52,580 --> 00:17:54,120 I just want people to feel something. 263 00:17:54,120 --> 00:18:01,160 And I want people to know that this music that is considered very elite and rare and, 264 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:07,400 you know, all of those things that actually they have a cultural history with it as well. 265 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:12,880 Like it is not something that they have to be on the outside looking in that their grandparents 266 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:18,760 and their great grandparents, you know, broke barriers and were the first black conductor 267 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:23,400 and, you know, and the first black composer to win this prize and the first black, you 268 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:24,400 know, violinist. 269 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:29,040 And so that there's a long history of black people in classical music and that they should 270 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:34,600 know it as they know, you know, the history of African-Americans in America, for example. 271 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,200 Now there are so many ways to look at this. 272 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:43,960 So let's, let's go back, talk about the mission of your Juneteenth LP. 273 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:50,800 And you briefly mentioned, but are you looking for, let's say platform to give the general 274 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:56,400 audience to get to know the classical music by maybe doing in such a way that is more 275 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:05,600 inviting or in the end, do you want to promote inclusion in a classical music or maybe both? 276 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,760 I was about to say, I'm not sure that those are mutually exclusive at all. 277 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:15,120 You know, I do want it to be more inviting and if, and, and also multi-generational, 278 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:16,120 right? 279 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:23,520 So we play music by black classical composers, but we also play, you know, we'll play a LISO 280 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,600 arrangement and we'll play some arrangement of Stevie Wonder, we'll play an arrangement 281 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,000 of Nina Simone and we'll play some Duke Ellington. 282 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:37,400 And so all of a sudden you have a show in which like a seven-year-old is delighted that 283 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:42,760 they hear something that they recognize, but also grandma and grandpa are delighted that 284 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,760 they hear something that they love and recognize. 285 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:51,440 And in between they're also being exposed to such a wide breadth of different composers 286 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:57,240 and so that it's something that people can share sort of within the whole family. 287 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:02,880 And that's wonderful, but also an introduction to, you know, you love, you love song. 288 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:03,880 Well, H.T. 289 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,440 Burley wrote some of the most beautiful art songs and some of them were arrangements of 290 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,040 spirituals, which I know you know, because you know, you're a church going person and 291 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,600 your family's from the South originally. 292 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:18,280 So here's this music that is a part of your legacy, but you didn't realize also lives 293 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,160 in the classical music canon. 294 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:27,160 But I also think that classical music needs to sort of rethink how it wants to present 295 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:33,320 itself, you know, and I think that contemporary classical composers, a lot of them are grappling 296 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:38,800 with this and they're sort of writing in a way that's challenging norms and trying to 297 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,620 get people to listen differently and think differently about the music. 298 00:20:42,620 --> 00:20:49,360 But also I think that we need to invite people who are not necessarily white and wealthy 299 00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:56,080 to like, because if we don't grow that audience, it will become tinier and tinier and tinier 300 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,760 until there's until we have, you know what I mean? 301 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:04,120 Like why not grow the audience so that we can actually make sure that the kids that 302 00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:08,720 we're teaching who want to be pianists will have audiences to play for, you know? 303 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,960 We are raising the audience also. 304 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,240 Yes, not just the music players. 305 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,240 I know. 306 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:15,240 I totally understand. 307 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,760 Now, I'm curious to know how you're accomplishing this mission. 308 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:25,760 So is it by the concert series or just one event or tell us. 309 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:32,360 So we we have sort of grown the out of this, you know, one show we we've grown into sort 310 00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:36,680 of a Juneteenth Festival week where we present more than one concert. 311 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,360 We do about three or four. 312 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:45,620 And we we do video concerts for other places where it's like, you know, it's it's really 313 00:21:45,620 --> 00:21:47,960 expensive for eight people to go to Boston. 314 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:53,920 So, you know, Bunker Hill Community College, we do a Juneteenth show for them that is recorded. 315 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:59,320 But we also do lectures and workshops and master classes and things like that. 316 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:00,320 Throughout the year or? 317 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:01,680 Yeah, throughout the year. 318 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,560 Yeah, mostly January to June, but throughout the year. 319 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:09,880 One of the things that I'm realizing is that because I am the artistic director of Juneteenth 320 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:17,720 LP, a lot of times what I do also becomes sort of a reflection of the ensemble as well. 321 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:23,440 So when I give a master class or when I present concerts and lectures, it is something that 322 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:29,360 I always make sure to mention Juneteenth LP like we're sort of we're interconnected unity. 323 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:31,520 It's not sorry. 324 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:32,520 Interconnected entities. 325 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,800 It's not just I'm a solo artist and I'm and I am a teacher and I do these things. 326 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,080 And then there's Juneteenth LP. 327 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,520 And that's a completely different thing. 328 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,840 Often we find I find that we're working very much in conjunction. 329 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,600 Like our our missions are the same, whether it's me individually or me as part of a group. 330 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:55,400 And our intentions and our goals and our aesthetics principles are the same. 331 00:22:55,400 --> 00:23:00,240 So I'm still trying to sort out how that's going to work ultimately. 332 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,160 But the drive is similar. 333 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,840 And so sometimes we do things hand in hand. 334 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:10,560 Like, for example, my my album is actually sort of has been released under the Juneteenth 335 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,280 LP umbrella of recording projects. 336 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,880 It's just the first of a bunch of recording projects that we have. 337 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,760 Oh, you mean the latest album that you it's your solo album, right? 338 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,520 Yeah, we're going to talk about that later. 339 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,320 But the title is Luminous. 340 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:25,320 Yes. 341 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:26,320 Right. 342 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:32,080 Which is available on major MSR Classics label was we release it through MSR Classics. 343 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,280 And and it's available wherever you stream music. 344 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:42,760 You know, on the Juneteenth LP website, it says, quote, Juneteenth LP LP brings together 345 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:48,440 unexpected classical music and brilliantly crafted arrangements of more popular repertoire 346 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:53,280 for refreshing take on live performances and educational music experiences. 347 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:59,280 So I'm curious, what are you guys playing and what are unexpected classical music, which 348 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:04,080 I can almost guess and brilliantly crafted arrangement that you mentioned that there 349 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:10,120 are sometimes you do the arrangement by Stevie Wonder to many other like I saw an arrangement 350 00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:12,520 by Childish Gambino. 351 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,960 And then, yeah, also, Mongo Santa Maria, Afro Blue. 352 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,040 Yeah, I saw that arrangement as well. 353 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,360 So who does these arrangements? 354 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:30,760 And also, you are doing popular music and also probably African American classical music 355 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:31,760 as well. 356 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:36,280 So tell us when I was I'm going to go back a little bit when I was a kid, I actually 357 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:43,000 the first music camp I went to was a school for composers, a summer school for composers. 358 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,080 It was called the Walden School and it's up in New Hampshire. 359 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,080 It still exists. 360 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,840 It's a wonderful, wonderful institution. 361 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:54,960 Because in that space, I got introduced to theory, ear training and composition. 362 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,960 And their philosophy is really interesting. 363 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,400 It's basically that whatever they're teaching, it's orally based. 364 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,080 So it's you don't know it unless you can hear it. 365 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,080 You can hear it. 366 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,080 You can take dictation on it. 367 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:08,080 You can sing it. 368 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,560 You can, you know, which is very different. 369 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,760 And I didn't realize how different it was till I got to college. 370 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,340 And it's a wonderful. 371 00:25:15,340 --> 00:25:16,720 It was a wonderful experience. 372 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:22,960 But what it did was it also introduced me to the idea of everyone is and can be a composer 373 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,720 and should be to some extent. 374 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,080 If you are in music, you should also be composing. 375 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,320 Then you don't have to be composing like you're a serious composer. 376 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,880 You're out getting commissions and that's how you are you're living. 377 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:39,800 But you should always be playing around with your instrument and making stuff up. 378 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:40,800 Who does the arrangements? 379 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,160 Well, I have tackled some arrangements. 380 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,880 And because we were going to be doing more different genres, I started taking jazz piano 381 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:55,760 lessons, which was a hilarious experience because I will admit right now that I was 382 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:56,760 a terror. 383 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:02,080 I am a terrible student in so many ways because there's no time. 384 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,080 Right. 385 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,880 And jazz is not one of those. 386 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:05,880 Oh, yeah. 387 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,040 You know, I play classical music and I have great chops. 388 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:09,880 And so I'll just pick this thing up. 389 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,640 Some people can and do. 390 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,360 But that's a different that's almost a different talent. 391 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:15,360 You know what I mean? 392 00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:19,600 Like they and you know, and it's so funny because people say, well, you play the piano, 393 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,440 you should be able to do this. 394 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,160 And I'm like, yeah, not necessarily. 395 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:24,160 It's different. 396 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:25,160 No, no, I know. 397 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:26,160 I try. 398 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,160 I try to miserably fail. 399 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:29,160 Right. 400 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,160 I totally understand. 401 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,160 Yes. 402 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:36,760 What's fascinating about studying jazz piano is that you're forced to really you have to 403 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,600 reconcile yourself to the fact that our training for the most part, I know that there's a lot 404 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,880 of there are places that train musicians really, really well. 405 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:50,040 But for the most part, in classical music, we are very visually attached to the page 406 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,160 and then we render the page. 407 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,160 Right. 408 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,000 And, you know, I've been I've had people say to me, well, that isn't very creative. 409 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,240 And I said, well, actually it is because you make choices what you want to bring out, what 410 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,240 you think is important. 411 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,080 You know, you're basically a field guide for the listener. 412 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,720 This is the line I want you to hear. 413 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,360 And this is how it you know, I'm shaping a phrase in a certain way. 414 00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:12,960 And it's subtle and it's nuanced. 415 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:18,840 And I can understand that it feels very different from a jazz type of form where you are creating 416 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:19,840 in the moment. 417 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,800 But as you and I both know, in every piano lesson we ever took, our teachers would tell 418 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,800 us, exhort us to play in such a way that it sounds like we are creating this music in 419 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:30,800 the moment. 420 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:31,800 Right. 421 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:38,240 So from a very different way, like almost like a backwards way around, we are studying 422 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,760 the score and learning and studying context and history so that we can come to this place 423 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,240 where it sounds like we are making the music as we you know what I mean? 424 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,280 We are creating it as we play it. 425 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,120 And jazz musicians actually just create it. 426 00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:52,620 Right. 427 00:27:52,620 --> 00:27:59,240 And what is fascinating about that is you can think that you know harmony, but creating 428 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:06,040 as your harmonic language shifts in time and, you know, in time, like harmony shifting in 429 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:11,040 time and you have to, it just moves like the second hand of a clock just moves. 430 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,640 You don't get to revisit. 431 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,000 I didn't like how that goes until I'm going back. 432 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,640 It's we're on to the next, you know. 433 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,520 You know, if you're playing a 12 bar blues, let's swing around and it'll come back again. 434 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:23,520 You get to try again. 435 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,480 But this is what it is. 436 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:31,200 And it's it took a long time for me to let go of the I didn't I didn't like that. 437 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,320 Let me fix it. 438 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,960 But once you do start to do that and once you start you allow yourself to be not comfortable 439 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:44,120 because that's the thing we work so hard to make it perfect that there's a level of I 440 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,240 am prepared and I am secure that absolutely does not exist. 441 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,960 Well at least not as a jazz student. 442 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:55,080 I'm sure you know if you're Ron Carter it exists, but it doesn't exist for me. 443 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,160 And it doesn't exist for most people who are just starting where it is. 444 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,240 It's a whole other world. 445 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:02,980 And I totally understand. 446 00:29:02,980 --> 00:29:10,640 So during the program of Juneteenth LP, you combine this jazz elements and then with the 447 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,960 classical elements and the pop too, right? 448 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:14,960 Wow. 449 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,760 That is really, really cool because I would love to attend that. 450 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:19,760 Yeah. 451 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,520 I mean, you're always welcome. 452 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,400 And I would be delighted to get you a ticket. 453 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,500 But what's what's interesting is that because I started studying jazz and I started saying, 454 00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:33,480 when we arrange this tune, like I thought Afro Blue would be perfect for us. 455 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:34,820 Let's arrange it. 456 00:29:34,820 --> 00:29:39,160 And I was working with Neil Kirkwood at Third Street and he would help me with some arrangements, 457 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,040 but also, you know, I would tweak a lot of the things. 458 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,760 And so it was a real collaborative process, which I enjoyed, but I started to become a 459 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,960 little bit more comfortable with improvising. 460 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,840 And then we started sort of, well, there's this song and we all love it, but we're going 461 00:29:54,840 --> 00:30:00,080 to have a break where individuals can solo and I would be soloing sometimes. 462 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,320 And it was terrifying. 463 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:03,880 It still actually is. 464 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,840 But you know, you are improvising. 465 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,840 I am improvising. 466 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,000 It is nuts. 467 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,640 And you know, it's really funny in the same way that when, you know, you give a concert 468 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:17,920 and you think, oh, that was okay. 469 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,160 I didn't like the way I did this and I didn't like the way I did that. 470 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,560 And then a month later you listen to the concert and you say, wow, that was really good. 471 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,160 Why did I think it wasn't good? 472 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,320 That was really good. 473 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:29,320 It's the same thing. 474 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,720 Like I will improvise and well, whatever, just keep moving. 475 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,440 It wasn't, I don't know, hopefully nobody noticed. 476 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,840 And then I listened to it and I think, well, that wasn't terrible at all. 477 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,000 Hello, right? 478 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,560 That's great. 479 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:52,040 And so it's teaching me to be okay with uncertainty and to be okay with not being able to control 480 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:53,040 everything. 481 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,680 That is a very different concept from classical performance. 482 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:56,680 Yes. 483 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,080 But I think that what you need to be in control of when you're improvising, you need to be 484 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,880 in control of the harmonic language. 485 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,840 Like you need to know that. 486 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,560 And then with that framework, the world is your oyster, but also terrifying. 487 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:10,560 Yes. 488 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:17,400 And I think that that's what you need to be in control of when you're improvising. 489 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:30,900 And so I think that's what you need to be in control of when you're improvising. 490 00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:58,560 And so I think that's what you need to be in control of when you're improvising. 491 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:13,760 Yes. 492 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:52,920 One of the things that was monumental was obviously 2020 of the Black Lives Matter movement. 493 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:58,400 And then you are already starting the Juneteenth LP before that, right? 494 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:03,520 And then so the 2020, the year 2020 of the Black Lives Matter movement, which brought 495 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:10,040 the day, the Juneteenth to many people's awareness finally, and especially unfortunate death 496 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,840 of Mr. George Floyd. 497 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:17,360 And of course, finally Juneteenth became a federal holiday in 2021. 498 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:22,920 So I'd like to know your own personal experience of that year as much as you can. 499 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:28,160 I know it's still a sensitive topic, but because you have already started this project before 500 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:34,040 that and what's been like with your Juneteenth LP journey since then? 501 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:40,000 Well when I started, I was kind of, I was talking about the fact that I wanted to celebrate 502 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,040 Juneteenth Freedom Day, right? 503 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,800 It's called Freedom Day or Liberation Day. 504 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,160 I wanted to celebrate it from an artist standpoint. 505 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:55,240 So I wanted to celebrate these musicians who post Juneteenth, their world was far more 506 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,340 open than it had ever been. 507 00:33:57,340 --> 00:34:01,040 And I'm not saying that it was easy and all of a sudden people had access to everything, 508 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:06,840 but you had the opportunity possibly to have a life that wasn't plantation bound necessarily, 509 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:07,960 right? 510 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,560 And so what did people do with that freedom? 511 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,720 And taking that step into the unknown is actually a terrifying thing. 512 00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:20,520 Like if you were raised in a plantation system or if you were raised in subjugation or you 513 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:25,660 were raised in one kind of climate and then you decide that you want something different 514 00:34:25,660 --> 00:34:31,680 for yourself, you know, and it's sometimes not as obvious as slaved and then not enslaved, 515 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,160 you know, slaving and free. 516 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:39,240 It is sometimes as it can be as nuanced as you come from a family of people who believe 517 00:34:39,240 --> 00:34:42,660 that the next generation should lift up the next generation. 518 00:34:42,660 --> 00:34:48,560 And so everyone is going to go to college and become a professor or a doctor or a lawyer 519 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:53,080 and then someone says, yeah, but I want to paint. 520 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:58,720 That is a scary and terrifying path to take if that's not the norm for your family, your 521 00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:00,920 tribe, your environment, right? 522 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:06,800 And so I wanted to sort of celebrate these people who were invariably incredible risk 523 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:12,360 takers, even if they came from musical families, just to be black in America and to be doing 524 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,360 what they were doing was something extraordinary. 525 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,960 And the fact that they persisted, like in the face of incredible difficulties, they 526 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:21,120 persisted. 527 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:29,800 But then, you know, when George Floyd was killed, it was very interesting. 528 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,920 And people ask you what you know, what was how did you deal with it or what you were 529 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,600 going through? 530 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:45,440 And honestly, and I apologize if this is this feels harsh, but the hardest thing was realizing 531 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,080 to what extent I was people's only black friend. 532 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:56,200 And so what I got was a lot of other people feeling bad and then thinking they were going 533 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,480 to feel better by reaching out to me. 534 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,760 Do you know what I'm saying? 535 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:06,960 And in fact, I didn't feel shock for oh, also, you should know I didn't watch the video. 536 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:13,080 I didn't watch the video because what happened to George Floyd has been happening to black 537 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:19,040 people for centuries, whether it was a lynching or police violence. 538 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:25,760 I mean, you know, Rodney King was videotaped in that was 1992, I believe. 539 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,800 And what was traumatic about that was not that it happened because we knew things like 540 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,060 that happen. 541 00:36:31,060 --> 00:36:38,000 But the fact that there was video, and yet it seemed to leave the world relatively unchanged. 542 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,000 Do you know what I mean? 543 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,640 Like this reckoning that we had post George Floyd, there should have been a reckoning 544 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,100 like that after the Rodney King assault. 545 00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:52,240 But there wasn't, you know, and it seemed to me that I think that there was something 546 00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:56,960 particularly gruesome about George Floyd's death and the fact that we now live in a viral 547 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:57,960 age. 548 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:03,560 So you can miss the Rodney King thing if you hadn't been watching TV at that time. 549 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,760 But you could not escape what happened with George Floyd. 550 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,400 It was everywhere. 551 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:14,720 And so for me, I was more grieving at how, how often it seemed to happen. 552 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:16,480 Do you know what I mean? 553 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,320 And in some ways, the world changed. 554 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:23,720 And so I'm grateful for that, and I'm grateful that I'm, of course, happy that Juneteenth 555 00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:26,200 is now a federal holiday. 556 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:31,600 But it also made me realize there's something bizarrely, there's something a little bit 557 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:37,800 obscene with how immediately suddenly there were Juneteenth events. 558 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:38,800 Do you know what I mean? 559 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,960 That, and it reminded me, oh, yeah, this is a business too, isn't it? 560 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,960 And so, yeah, you know, and I'm glad that there are events. 561 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,960 But also there's something a little bit gross about it, you know, it's hard, you know, like 562 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,520 it's not a, it's not a fun conversation to have. 563 00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:01,280 But like I said, I'm really grateful that it's, you know, it should be a national holiday. 564 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,280 So I'm glad that it is. 565 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:08,680 But you know, by asking this question, I don't mean to, like put you in a place, a spot where 566 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:15,480 you are like all of a sudden the representative of this whole entire Juneteenth or Black Lives 567 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:16,480 Matter movement. 568 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:17,480 No. 569 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,120 And I didn't, I didn't receive it that way at all. 570 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:22,120 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 571 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,960 And I appreciate the question because it's, it allows me to sort of, you know, I don't 572 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,640 think I've, I've articulated this. 573 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,720 I've had an opportunity to articulate this. 574 00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:34,520 And so I was, I'm glad to do it. 575 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:39,080 You know, it's funny, I say this to my friends often, but there are a lot of things that 576 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,520 were made possible because of George Floyd's death. 577 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:49,080 And it is horrible and horrifying that that was the case. 578 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,360 But I mean, it changed us. 579 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:57,880 And I'm glad it did, you know, because it would be appalling if something like that 580 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,240 were to happen and it didn't change us. 581 00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:04,880 You know, even, you know, you could argue whether it's changed us societally a lot or 582 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,680 a little, but I'm, I'm grateful. 583 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:12,400 And I'm devastated that people had to lose their, like a family had to lose someone that 584 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,080 they loved, you know, for this to happen. 585 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:20,080 It's kind of like when Martin Luther King was assassinated and Malcolm X was assassinated, 586 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,080 it was assassinated. 587 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:25,000 You kind of, those were turning points in American history. 588 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:26,800 But did someone have to die? 589 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,680 Did children have to lose their parents? 590 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,680 Did a woman have to lose, did women have to lose their husbands behind that? 591 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,240 But I don't know, I'm getting a little. 592 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:37,980 I know it's a very tough topic and I'm sorry. 593 00:39:37,980 --> 00:39:43,720 But I appreciate you for really opening up and telling me because it's important to talk 594 00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:46,400 about and we need to do better too, you know? 595 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,920 It's not just that his death, but I think we have to do even better. 596 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,560 So thank you for opening up. 597 00:39:53,560 --> 00:40:00,360 So just to change the mood of our conversation, I really want to congratulate you for all 598 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:05,360 the hard work you spend with the, especially Juneteenth LP and then your dedication was 599 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:11,120 finally recognized in 2022 last year when you received the Chamber Music America Artist 600 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:17,880 Grant and this accolade transformed your annual Juneteenth celebration from a one night event 601 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:23,560 at the Joe's Pub at the Public Theater to a week long New York City extravaganza. 602 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:24,640 Congratulations. 603 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:29,760 So I know to get a grant from the government, right? 604 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,960 That's not easy, extremely difficult. 605 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:37,640 Yes, Chamber Music America is I think a private organization, but I mean this year I am applying 606 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,440 for city and state grants. 607 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:45,580 You know, it is a long and arduous process and I was very lucky to have one of my team 608 00:40:45,580 --> 00:40:51,800 members who was just there and you know, it took us consistent work over together, working 609 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,200 together over the course of a month to prepare this grant proposal. 610 00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:00,000 But what was really interesting about it was that it really does lay the groundwork for 611 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:06,840 us, so we got to learn how to apply for grants from an organizational level or you know, 612 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,520 and it's different from applying for a grant as an individual. 613 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,760 And so that was an incredible sort of steep learning curve. 614 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,960 And as I am applying for grants now in this round, it's a lot easier in some ways. 615 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:24,600 I don't have the same team members, but it is easier because that that groundwork was 616 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,140 laid, you know. 617 00:41:26,140 --> 00:41:32,040 But I will say that it is a constant struggle of getting your projects funded, getting, 618 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,120 you know, getting funding for your projects so that you can present. 619 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:42,400 And I tell people all the time, I feel like that no matter what I do, there's always this 620 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:47,040 next challenge on the horizon that is unlike anything I've done before. 621 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:52,660 And so it feels like I'm a beginner again and again and again. 622 00:41:52,660 --> 00:41:54,120 And I thought to myself, but you know what? 623 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,880 I remember telling students you have to be unafraid to not know what's going on. 624 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:04,160 But you have to be OK with not knowing because eventually you work at it and then you will 625 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:05,160 know. 626 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:06,800 But then there'll be another challenge. 627 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:07,800 You know? 628 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:08,800 I know. 629 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:09,800 Totally, totally. 630 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:10,800 But congratulations. 631 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,760 That's a big thing. 632 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:17,080 And then, you know, I really hope to attend the future events. 633 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:22,400 And I know this Juneteenth LP is going to be even bigger and because the message is 634 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:23,400 right. 635 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:28,080 So I also want to know a little bit about other musicians who are involved, like who's 636 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,840 the member or who would be the guest? 637 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:36,160 One of the first people that I met doing the show was cellist Eric Cooper. 638 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:42,040 He's a really amazing musician, but also he has a quartet called Sterling Strings. 639 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,560 And this quartet does really amazing work. 640 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,720 And they they do these great arrangements of popular music. 641 00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:50,400 Their improvising chops are wonderful. 642 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:55,400 But it's very funny when we're in rehearsal because, you know, we're doing Childish Gambino 643 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,360 or Lizzo or whatever. 644 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,000 And they're like, yeah, you know, we're very familiar with this. 645 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,440 Let's just play it through and go. 646 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,040 And I'm like, I am not familiar with this. 647 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:09,760 I am not familiar with improvising and I need to play it more than once. 648 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,360 So we're coming from very different places and they're like, yeah, it's no problem. 649 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,880 And I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is so hard. 650 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:21,160 But it's great to be able to work with an ensemble that is so capable in that way. 651 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:26,480 And so we have a singer and we have our newest singer is Kristin Devine. 652 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,800 She has this really wonderful voice and it's been a pleasure working with her. 653 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:38,060 And we have this fabulous, fabulous percussionist, Shirzett Tinnen, who is just absolutely brilliant. 654 00:43:38,060 --> 00:43:43,360 She and her ensemble opened up the Women in Jazz series up here in Harlem. 655 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,160 I believe I forgot to mention. 656 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:51,880 So our first violinist, Frederique Namaam is an African Caribbean violinist from the 657 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,640 Boston area and she is a powerhouse arranger. 658 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,000 And so she's been doing a lot of our arrangements. 659 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:04,200 But also this year, I believe Shirzett is going to do a couple of arrangements for us. 660 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,400 And so we're just kind of collecting these musicians that vibe with us well. 661 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,520 I just feel really lucky that a group of musicians that we. 662 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:17,200 And not only do we enjoy playing together, you know, it's a really great energy, but 663 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,640 also we just enjoy hanging out. 664 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:20,640 That's wonderful. 665 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,080 That's a dream come true. 666 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,240 It's very hard to collaborate, but that speaks volume about you. 667 00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:29,360 You know, you have that ability to put things together, put people together. 668 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:35,360 So what would you like your audience to experience from attending the concerts? 669 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,880 I want them to hear music they've never heard before and hopefully be delighted by it and 670 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,160 hopefully be interested and engaged. 671 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:48,120 I want them to come away with it thinking, I want to know more about Margaret Bonds. 672 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,680 I want to know more about William Grant still. 673 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,160 I want to know more about whomever we've presented. 674 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:55,360 That's what I want. 675 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,320 And what's great is that we live in an era where they can literally put that in their 676 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:03,800 phone and pull up, you know, whatever Trevor Weston's got, whatever and Kiro Koei has got. 677 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,240 There's a sound cloud for that. 678 00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:06,680 There's a Spotify. 679 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,160 Primarily that's what I want. 680 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:16,200 And also I want them to hear pop standards or blues standards or whatever in a different 681 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,440 way because we're playing it, their strings. 682 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:24,320 How much Marvin Gaye have you heard that's been, you know, string centered, string heavy 683 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:25,320 or string forward? 684 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,360 Oh, I would love to hear that. 685 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:28,360 Yeah. 686 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:33,440 I mean, you know, it's a lot of fun and it's a lot of, it's really engaging. 687 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,440 Before I, you know, we go to the next segment, which is about your life, but I want to ask 688 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,520 one last question from this Juneteenth LP. 689 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:47,400 What did you gain or what important life lesson did you experience from launching and building 690 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:48,400 the Juneteenth LP? 691 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,880 What I've learned is that the most important thing that you can do is to put one foot in 692 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,040 front of the other. 693 00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,320 It doesn't matter if it feels like it's working. 694 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,240 It doesn't matter if it feels like it's right. 695 00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:03,120 Just you have to get up and you have to put one foot in front of the other. 696 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:04,920 And my mother used to talk about this. 697 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,960 She struggled, you know, as we all do. 698 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,940 And I, and I remember saying to her, how, how are you able to do that? 699 00:46:12,940 --> 00:46:20,320 How are you able to work from 3pm to midnight because they wouldn't give you a reasonable 700 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:27,840 shift at the hospital and then get up at six in the morning to take me to school? 701 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:29,320 How did you do that? 702 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:30,320 And she said two things. 703 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:35,640 She said, well, first of all, when you have kids, you become capable of all kinds of things 704 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:40,320 that you know darn well you could not do if you didn't have these kids to take care of. 705 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:45,920 But also, and I'd heard her say this to more than a few people, I'm just stumbling and bumbling 706 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:46,920 along. 707 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,120 Like it doesn't look right. 708 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:50,260 It doesn't feel right. 709 00:46:50,260 --> 00:46:52,400 It doesn't seem like I'm succeeding. 710 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,560 I'm just today I'm going to get up and I'm going to try again. 711 00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,760 That's the thing that is the most important thing. 712 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:04,440 I think that people who build things that last just persist. 713 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,280 Do you remember that speed skater was his name, Eric Hayden? 714 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:13,760 There was a speed skater who kept in the Olympics and the Olympics every four years, he kept 715 00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:18,280 skating and like he'd make it to the and he would fall. 716 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:19,520 He would fall. 717 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,000 He would not be able to fit. 718 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,040 And he was always, he was always clearly like the best. 719 00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:25,960 They expected him to win. 720 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,880 And yet something would always happen and something would always happen. 721 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,640 I think it was like his fourth Olympics. 722 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:36,640 Do you know how old like athletes do not have a long shelf life, right? 723 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:42,360 And when he finally broke through and won, it was like the whole world was unified in 724 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:51,420 this moment of my gosh, like, yes, you know, and then away, he will be remembered forever. 725 00:47:51,420 --> 00:47:54,360 I get choked up when I remember his breakthrough. 726 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:55,360 Do you know what I mean? 727 00:47:55,360 --> 00:48:01,760 I and I remember where I was watching each time he didn't and each time he crashed and 728 00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,920 burned and sort of weak families watching the Olympics again. 729 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,240 And then it happened. 730 00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:11,480 It takes what feels like forever to achieve the thing that you're trying to achieve. 731 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,720 Your job is not to predict when your success is going to happen. 732 00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:19,520 And your job is not to, you know, you're not in charge of the universe. 733 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,840 You don't get to know if it's going to happen tomorrow, if it's going to happen in 20 years. 734 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,880 Your job is to get up in the morning and say, I am committed to this thing that I'm going 735 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:28,880 to do. 736 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,480 And so I'm going to do it. 737 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:36,040 And sometimes it is exhausting and it is lonely and it is frustrating. 738 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,360 And you're you're you feel broken half the times that you're doing it. 739 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:48,480 But also, when you do get to that level, you realize that you are enjoying it because you 740 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,160 knew what it took. 741 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:51,160 Right. 742 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:56,760 And then also you realize, oh, there's another mountain. 743 00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:57,760 I climbed this. 744 00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,520 Oh, there's another mountain. 745 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:00,520 Right. 746 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:01,520 Yeah. 747 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,040 I'm comfortable because it is always striving and always climbing. 748 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,040 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 749 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:07,040 I hear you. 750 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,440 And thank you for the reminder, because, you know, sometimes when I do this podcast, it's 751 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:12,560 I enjoy it. 752 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,080 But it's like, like you said, one foot in front of the other. 753 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,600 It's like every day you do this that matters. 754 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:25,680 It's not about when you achieve how much you achieve. 755 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:30,560 And that's a wrap for the first part of this engaging episode on the PianoPod with a guest, 756 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,280 Dr. Nena Ogro. 757 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:37,000 If you have been enjoying our episodes, please take a moment to rate and review us on your 758 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:38,820 favorite podcast platform. 759 00:49:38,820 --> 00:49:42,940 You can also watch our episodes on the PianoPod YouTube channel. 760 00:49:42,940 --> 00:49:47,280 As we kick off our fourth season, we owe it all to your support. 761 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:52,960 Since 2020, we've been exploring how to make classical music resonate in fresh ways with 762 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:54,660 today's audience. 763 00:49:54,660 --> 00:49:58,640 But to continue bringing you these episodes, we need your support. 764 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,800 Every contribution goes toward essential podcast expenses. 765 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,640 Want to be part of this journey? 766 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:09,580 Click the PayPal link in the show notes or visit the pianopod.com to donate. 767 00:50:09,580 --> 00:50:14,920 I'll personally mail you the PianoPod's logo sticker as a token of gratitude. 768 00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:20,040 So hit that subscribe button, spread the word, and don't forget to follow the PianoPod on 769 00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:21,240 social media. 770 00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:23,280 The links are in the description. 771 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:29,360 Tune in next Tuesday, October 24th at 8 p.m. for the rest of the interview with Dr. Nena 772 00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:52,560 Agpa.