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So tell me your love for Franz Liszt and Scriabin.

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Well you know Franz Liszt is really my favorite.

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Scriabin contributed a lot towards the development of harmony and he really came on like a really

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unique he came up with a really unique harmonic system.

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That being said, if I had to pick one I would pick Franz Liszt.

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It really goes without saying just the sheer amount of works that you can explore and the

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amount of different styles that all of those compositions encompass.

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You can also look at his transcriptions.

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I mean Liszt transcribed stuff from Bach Prelude and Fugue for organ to completely free fantasies

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on Bach works to things that are like multi-stylistic like this Handel transcription, things based

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on popular tunes, like a ridiculous amount of variety, really experimental works.

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So with Franz Liszt you're just never going to run out of repertoire ideas.

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I mean, let's say Howard recorded the complete list and that's what 110, 115 CDs.

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Right.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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You're not going to, it's safe to say you're never going to run out of material.

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Absolutely.

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Unless you're Superman.

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Hello piano enthusiasts.

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You're tuned into the PianoPod.

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I'm your host, Yukimi Song.

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We're diving into part two of our season four opener featuring the incredibly talented Dr.

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Michael Kakoff.

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If you missed our intriguing chat in part one where we delved into the mysteries of

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Scriabin's Synesthesia and the life of an independent artist post prestigious training,

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make sure to catch up on your go-to podcast platform.

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A warm welcome to all our new listeners.

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This podcast is your all access pass to the kept debating world of piano.

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In each episode of the PianoPod, I interview a guest speaker who has been breaking exciting

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new ground in the industry.

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Please rate the show and review it on your favorite podcasting platform because every

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rating review will help people find my show.

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So my friends, here is part two of the PianoPod's season four, episode one with Dr. Michael

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Kakoff.

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Please enjoy the show.

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You are listening to the PianoPod where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry

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about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century.

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So how about Scriabin?

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I know you recorded Etudes before.

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Yes, I've done the 65, number three.

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I did the sixth Sonata.

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I worked on the complete Opus eight.

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Scriabin is on my radar.

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I will definitely release a Scriabin album at some point.

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What grabs me the most in Scriabin's output is the late period compositions, the late

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period stuff after Opus 61.

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There's no question about it.

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I would say it would be enough to say that all of them are worth learning.

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Every single Opus from 61 up until 74 is last composition for piano, worth learning.

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In your opinion, what makes them special and worth learning?

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They're special because he came up on a harmonic system which is still based on acoustic principles.

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If you look at the development, he actually didn't throw away the previous relationship,

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like the acoustic relationships.

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He's very aware of how the overtone series works, how the sounds are actually formed

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based on the overtone series.

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It doesn't go against that.

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Even though you have things like the sixth Sonata, which I recorded, probably his most

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dissonant composition, it's still, every single chord can be explained and just the meticulousness

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of the writing and the way the material develops is extremely traditional.

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My teacher, Jerome Lomenthal said that Scriabin's late music is as clear as a Mozart Sonata.

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It's like even more clear in terms of composition than Mozart.

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And he's right.

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There's like nothing in there that's out of place, the level of craftsmanship.

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Yes, of course, when you hear it, it sounds chaotic, but yeah.

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Yeah it's true, yes.

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You are our dedicated music educator, piano teacher, and you teach online mainly and we

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can talk about the convenience of it and everything.

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But tell me what it's like to teach at the Harlem School of the Arts.

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Well, at the Harlem School of the Arts, I currently have one student who has been with

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me for many, many years.

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She started with me when she was three years old.

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Oh my goodness.

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It was really kind of, probably for a lot of people, they would say it's too early,

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but we kind of stuck with it and we really worked hard with her.

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And my sort of end goal would be to have her audition for a couple of maybe college prep

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programs and things like that.

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I have a couple of private students that auditioned for different kind of pre-college programs

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and I have one person that's currently who got into the Manhattan School of Music pre-college.

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It's very nice to also prepare for like really high stakes sort of professional goals.

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A lot of people also want to take this as sort of like a fun class or not necessarily

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to have some kind of end result, like an exam in mind.

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So it's a spectrum.

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I have some people online that are preparing for the RCM or the ABRSM.

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Also very valuable.

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I like that there's a standardized repertoire list and it kind of makes my life a little

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bit easier because as you know, selecting repertoire is actually really, really important.

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Of course.

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To pick pieces that showcase what you can already do and how you can grow.

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So that's that.

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Everyone sort of comes to me with a different goal in mind.

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I also teach a lot of like adult beginners, people that used to play piano as a kid and

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are coming back to it again.

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So it's a whole spectrum.

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I've seen everything.

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Great.

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And then so you only have one student at Harlem School.

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Currently.

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Right.

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And most of the students are through online.

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Yes.

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Wonderful.

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Now let's talk about online learning.

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So e-learning has become such a big thing, obviously after 2020, because that was the

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only way for many of us to be connected with each other, but also only way of learning

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as well.

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So tell me your thoughts on that.

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Pre-COVID, it was a huge like resistance that I felt from fellow educators and among students

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as well.

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But I was actually giving an online lesson even before COVID.

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I had one or two students who lived in Upper West Side and I couldn't go to their home.

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So the only way was through actually FaceTime before Zoom, because I didn't know, know that

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existence of Zoom before COVID, honestly.

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So tell me your thoughts on online lessons, e-learning.

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Online lessons and their success a lot of the time is dependent on the weakest link.

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The internet connection on both sides and the kind of basic equipment people are willing

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to kind of invest in either some kind of keyboard with preferably 88 keys or an acoustic instrument.

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So occasionally I make people go and purchase a microphone, like a standalone thing that's

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going to kind of circumvent the Zoom compression, something like this.

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If people can't afford it, I can take a financial hit on the first lesson and just buy this

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thing for them just to ensure that the lessons aren't a waste of money and they can actually,

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I can hear them and they can hear me.

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Seems like a really basic thing, but it really isn't because it does take a little bit of

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special equipment to make it feasible.

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Otherwise they cannot really, if there's too much of a lag in the internet connection,

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it's also not a good value.

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You can't really teach.

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Absolutely.

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Yes.

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Now it's online isn't ideal for complete beginners as well.

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I have those, but it's less than ideal.

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And I think people that go into it, they know it might not be the best thing, but it can

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work with enough dedication.

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It can work, but the best results online that I found were people that already had some

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lessons prior and they kind of, they already have like a very clear, very clear goals.

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Yeah.

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And then how do you like teaching online?

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I love the convenience of it.

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I love working with people who are already come to me with a kind of a motivation, because

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if you're, you're seeking these lessons out online, it's pretty clear that you're kind

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of interested.

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You're not passively signed up for some kind of program.

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You're just going through the motions.

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So it's very, very, very nice.

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I've had people reach out because they're, they do have an in-person teacher, but they

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want a second opinion as they prepare for an exam.

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I've had college students reach out to me also that are enrolled in some program, but

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they want like an extra, extra lesson or also like a second opinion, or just even to play

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through some pieces and see what I say about it.

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So it's pretty cool.

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Yeah.

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That's a great way to do that using online.

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Makes sense.

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Yes.

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Yes, definitely.

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So as an educator, what do you see in these students, especially the students in, I guess

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in, of Gen Z, I wouldn't say Gen Alpha, because I don't think you're teaching really young

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students, young, young students, but you know, Gen Z, I'm sure you have students in that

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or maybe you are too.

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You are Gen Z. Maybe I don't know.

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Well born 1990.

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What does that make me?

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Uh, then millennial.

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Yes.

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You're still still well, pre-millennial.

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Yeah.

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But the era is called millennial.

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Okay.

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I'm a millennial.

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Oh my God.

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Yeah.

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I'm having a substantial crisis right now.

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No, no, no, no, no, no.

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It's, it's, it's called Gen Y.

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You're, you're in Gen Y.

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So Gen Z is like, yeah.

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Gen Z is the, you know, I think the age under 23 or something.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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So what do you see in students of that generation?

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It varies.

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Well, people are much better suited to using technology.

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They're quite fast with it.

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A lot of people already had to go through a lot of the schooling online just because

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of the COVID thing.

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I mean, they had to attend regular school online.

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A lot of university students had to have online college lessons, even for their major.

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We're talking about like the, all the big schools, even Juilliard, even people like

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in the dance program there, they have like online dance classes just through Zoom.

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So I feel like those students are already kind of well adapted to this.

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It's definitely, it definitely needs like, you need a certain level of tech savviness

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and working online requires greater concentration on the part of a student because you can't,

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you can only communicate these ideas.

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You can't like directly show it at, at the keyboard, you know, it's, it's more, it's

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more advanced.

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It's difficult.

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Of course, you're not going to argue otherwise, but it allows for consistency of lessons.

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It allows for flexibility in scheduling and it can, it can give you a decent result.

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What kind of skills are required or demanded as musicians of young generation?

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You're young as well.

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So you know, that skills that you didn't necessarily learn from all the schooling you went through,

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you know what I mean?

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Yes, I wouldn't say it's a skill.

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I think it's a mindset.

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I think it's a mindset.

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At some point you have to really think, how do I want to play this composition or you

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know, what do I want to play and why am I picking it?

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And you know, you know, something, even as I am playing this, this repertoire, there's

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spots in the 19th and again, Rhapsody where I've always felt strongly when I listened

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to recordings of it, that it might need like a cadenza or it might need like an embellishment

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on the repeat.

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And I went ahead and I composed a couple of inserts very carefully so they don't, they

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don't sound intrusive, but I make tiny changes in the score.

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These are things that are really not encouraged, not encouraged in school.

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We're so glued to the score.

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I mean, it's, I know some people would be horrified listening to a list Rhapsody and

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then looking at the, at the Lippi passage and seeing that I added some things in there.

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So ideally, ideally it has to be done very sparingly, very sparingly.

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It has to sound organic.

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It's a matter of taste, but at least I think when, when you get to the point where you

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can play what you want and how you want, I think that's already a very, that's already

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a win.

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That's a win.

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You can think about it for a minute.

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Early training is based on restriction, what not to do.

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And you also learn by imitation.

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That's a very good thing up to a certain point when you're finally given a completely free

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pass to do whatever you want, what are you going to do?

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You know?

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Yeah, that's true.

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That's an interesting, when you get to that point, that's pretty interesting.

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What are you going to pick?

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How are you going to play it?

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And why?

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That's a very different perspective, right?

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Yes.

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And I've only been thinking about it recently.

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That's a very important question to ask.

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It is.

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And you, you have to come to this.

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I, for a certain period of time, I was collecting old recordings and listening to all the, all

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the recorded output of like Rachman, Friedman, Gadovsky, Horowitz, everybody.

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00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,800
I have all the collections in my hard drive.

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00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:34,560
I hardly listen to the stuff anymore, but I'm kind of aware of what the pianists of

244
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,920
the past sounded like.

245
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,560
And it was just an era of extreme freedom, really strong individuality.

246
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:47,680
I mean, look at Alfred Courtauld, everyone, all different, all so different.

247
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:52,160
And that, is that something that you should?

248
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:53,160
Absolutely.

249
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:54,160
Absolutely.

250
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:55,160
You should cultivate.

251
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:56,160
You should cultivate.

252
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,160
It goes without saying.

253
00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,880
Otherwise, why are you recording it?

254
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:04,360
If you can't bring something new to it, and I don't mean something new in a completely

255
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,440
tacky contrived way.

256
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:07,440
Yeah.

257
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,420
But if you're not going to present something new or have your own ideas about it, why not

258
00:15:11,420 --> 00:15:14,120
just put a recording of Rachmaninoff on?

259
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,840
Even something like the Rachmaninoff Third Concerto, which I haven't done.

260
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:22,240
I have a wonderful recording of Rachmaninoff himself playing it in 1939.

261
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,680
Give me a good reason to play that concerto again.

262
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:29,040
That's what you have to think about when you learn, when you learn a composition.

263
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,840
It may sound arrogant, but I'm not saying it's a competition between you and Rachmaninoff.

264
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,600
No, it's like what's there?

265
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,560
What do you have extra to say?

266
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,320
And why are you picking it?

267
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:45,040
Why do you think that you can present something that's unique enough when you select something?

268
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,260
Hey there, TPP family.

269
00:15:47,260 --> 00:15:52,880
The Pianopod is now into our fourth season, and it's all thanks to you.

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00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:58,840
Since 2020, you've been with my journey with the TPP, exploring this burning question.

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00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:04,040
How do we make classical music resonate with today's audience in fresh and captivating

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00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:05,040
ways?

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00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,840
Four years in, and the journey has been nothing short of magical.

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00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,120
The Pianopod isn't just a podcast, it's a movement.

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00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:18,880
A space where pianists, composers, and educators brainstorm, debate, and reimagine classical

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00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,600
music's place in our fast-paced world.

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We're together on a mission to ensure classical music doesn't just survive, but thrives

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00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:28,960
in our modern age.

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But here's the thing.

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To keep bringing you these insightful bi-weekly episodes, I need your help.

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00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:41,320
Every bit of support goes into the podcast's essentials, from hosting to high-quality recording

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00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,040
tech and the countless hours behind the scenes.

283
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,360
So do you want to be part of this journey?

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00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:52,460
Click the PayPal link in the show notes or head to the pianopod.com to donate.

285
00:16:52,460 --> 00:17:00,520
And as a token of appreciation, I will personally mail you the Pianopod's snazzy logo sticker.

286
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:05,960
So hit the subscribe button, spread the word, and let's continue our mission and journey

287
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,200
as classical musicians.

288
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,680
Now let's continue with the show.

289
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,560
Because you are not only a concert pianist and recording artist, but also you're an

290
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:20,600
educator, so let's talk about the vision of the classical music industry.

291
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:28,980
So I want to, I'm curious to know your thought on how we can keep this classical music tradition

292
00:17:28,980 --> 00:17:37,880
or even classical music itself relevant and then thriving in this fast-paced society.

293
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:38,880
It's still relevant.

294
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:43,800
The markets of it have changed, but it's as relevant as it always has been.

295
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,020
There's massive audiences online.

296
00:17:46,020 --> 00:17:47,800
You have to just find a niche.

297
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,560
You have to find something that's unique to you.

298
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,080
And I think there will be an audience for that.

299
00:17:55,080 --> 00:18:00,760
I saw a posting recently, and it was an artist, and he said that he basically doesn't want

300
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:07,560
to continue posting his stuff on YouTube because he feels it's unappreciated and he just wants

301
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,720
to take down the whole channel.

302
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,400
And I feel, what are you doing this for?

303
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:18,480
Are you setting out to build up, you know, 400,000 subscribers or are you getting your

304
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:19,680
work out there?

305
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,340
Because it's two very different goals.

306
00:18:23,340 --> 00:18:25,640
So I would say you have to be patient.

307
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:32,480
You have to find the audience that's right for you, that loves specifically what you

308
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,360
do and what you select.

309
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:39,720
And it's a matter of just staying patient and creating more so-called content, but like

310
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:41,280
on your own terms.

311
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:47,880
If you go into this with the specific mindset of growth, you might have to go and study

312
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:54,040
marketing first or look at something else because it may not be immediately sort of

313
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:55,880
comparable.

314
00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:02,000
Also one pretty interesting thing, all the major streaming platforms, they've peaked,

315
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,000
haven't they?

316
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,000
They've peaked.

317
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:10,000
The time to be on YouTube was right before YouTube was purchased by Google.

318
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:16,040
The time for that was like 15, 20 years ago, however long ago that was.

319
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:23,360
Right now the market is so oversaturated that you really have to be on the lookout for the

320
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:25,360
next kind of big platform.

321
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:32,200
I know, for example, when you post an Instagram reel, it gets more organic views than stuff

322
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:36,480
on YouTube or Facebook because Instagram is actively interested in promoting their kind

323
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:43,280
of new sort of newer platform with like more, you know, longer video.

324
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,480
So when the next sort of big thing comes out, you have to be ready for that.

325
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:52,760
For example, I've worked a little bit with this company, Muse Live, which I think they're

326
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:59,200
going to go, Dr. Lisa Yui, by the way, also played a couple of fun for them.

327
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:07,680
They have an app and it's going to go live somewhere around this year or maybe next year.

328
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:08,680
We'll see.

329
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:13,320
We'll see how they relate to it, but that's just a streaming platform where it's audio

330
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:19,920
only, but it's uncompressed audio so you can stream potentially in high quality.

331
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,560
Oh, wonderful.

332
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:33,520
Then what is your thought on our responsibility or duty or you may say gift as classical musicians

333
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,840
to society at large?

334
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,560
That's a very good question.

335
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:48,240
You know, I would say our duty in classical music isn't to cheapen the content so that

336
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,800
it's readily available for mass consumption.

337
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,700
I think that's an error.

338
00:20:53,700 --> 00:21:00,120
If you think that you can get more views by doing a certain thing that your heart isn't

339
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:05,000
really in it and it's all just like marketing and you, I think you know what I mean, when

340
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:13,000
you're posting certain things that are there just for the views, I think people have to

341
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,960
sort of reconsider really what is classical music?

342
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,200
It's really come to the point where you might not want progress.

343
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,640
You just want to do it.

344
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:23,640
Let's do it well again.

345
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:24,640
Let's do it well again.

346
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:30,520
I mean, if you look at the past, look at the past 100 years, look at the past 100 years

347
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:36,160
of the recording industry and of all the great artists of the past, I don't mean that to

348
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:37,160
discourage people.

349
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:42,280
Just on the contrary, but a lot of this has already been done.

350
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:43,960
Let's keep the level where it is.

351
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,720
Let's kind of match the level.

352
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,840
Let's not degrade it.

353
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,440
Let's not cheapen the art for mass consumption.

354
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:56,880
What I mean by that, even like platform limits, I know for certain Instagram clips, and I've

355
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:02,360
been guilty of that myself, but you can only post a tiny sound bite that is 30 seconds

356
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:03,360
long.

357
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:08,680
I don't know if that's the best medium for the art.

358
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,720
Is a Chopin Scherzo all about the coda, the last 30 seconds?

359
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:13,720
I don't know.

360
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:18,600
Is the Liszt sonata, you're just going to post the octaves, just the octaves, all the

361
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,800
climax section, that's all the people are going to hear?

362
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,000
I'm not so sure.

363
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,600
It's a question of media.

364
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:32,000
Also, what mindset are you when you're on social media and looking for so-called content

365
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,880
to watch, kind of scrolling by?

366
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:40,880
Are you going to listen to a Liszt masterwork when you can't completely focus on it, or

367
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,160
it's like a background music?

368
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:43,600
I don't think so.

369
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:50,520
So it's a question of kind of redefining what these platforms are for.

370
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,160
I don't mean that in a pessimistic way.

371
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:54,160
Right, right, right.

372
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,280
Totally, I understand that.

373
00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:04,320
Why do you think it matters to each one of us at one point to explore and examine our

374
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:10,560
sense of purpose or mission as performing artists and music educators?

375
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,560
I think we have to think about that any time.

376
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:19,000
I think just with rigorous schooling, with staying in a more kind of confined thing where

377
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,880
you have a thousand things going on, your number one concern is when I graduate, am

378
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,680
I going to find a job?

379
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,680
Am I wrong?

380
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:34,600
That kind of weighs you down and it completely, it may crush some of your creative instincts.

381
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:35,600
Right?

382
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:36,600
Right.

383
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:42,120
Let's say your main goal from recording is to make a profit.

384
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:43,200
It's not going to happen.

385
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:49,640
If you look at what streaming pays and if you look at the various platforms, I mean,

386
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,180
it's not even close to minimum wage.

387
00:23:53,180 --> 00:23:58,360
Of course, there's things like Bandcamp where you can sell a physical product or people

388
00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:01,360
can donate and these things are actually changing already.

389
00:24:01,360 --> 00:24:10,080
But in the case of the most popular one, like Apple Music and Spotify, it's safe to say

390
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:17,440
that the streaming income that you make from that will not cover your production costs.

391
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,360
These things have changed.

392
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:20,720
They've changed very rapidly.

393
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:27,560
We went from physical CDs being relatively profitable in the 90s when record labels were

394
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,560
actively looking to duplicate the catalogs previously available in LP.

395
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,760
There was a mad rush to get the stuff documented.

396
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,840
That's when companies like Phillips, Sony and others would actually pay a very decent

397
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,160
amount of money and royalties for that.

398
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,100
Right now, I don't know.

399
00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:50,840
Right now, I think for the recording, it's going to go in a library somewhere.

400
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,920
It's going to go in one of those students.

401
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,720
I'm sure you know this with the Knox Sound Library where you can access pretty much anything

402
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,960
on demand for streaming.

403
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:04,440
So the purpose kind of changed, but I think it's still worthwhile.

404
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,440
You think?

405
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:06,440
Yes.

406
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:07,440
Life is hard.

407
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:08,440
Yeah.

408
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:14,560
Look, if you're number one, because I'm only saying this because people have asked me this.

409
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:20,600
They're saying, well, you're telling me there's never going to be any profits in this?

410
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,080
There may never be any profit.

411
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,320
The best that you can hope for, for some of this, if you're a freelancer and you produce

412
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,240
a project like that, is a nice tax write-off.

413
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,800
Get a good accountant.

414
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:32,920
Get a good accountant.

415
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,400
Write off those thousands that you invest in your career.

416
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:36,400
It might be worth it.

417
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:41,520
Then something eventually will click in place because you're spending basically on, it's

418
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,280
an advertisement, isn't it?

419
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:50,640
You're also taking a so-called loss just to, artistry can't exist in a vacuum.

420
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:51,920
You need an audience.

421
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,880
You need a specific goal.

422
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,840
It's not like a treadmill where, oh, I'm just going to do this to get better, just for self-betterment.

423
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,400
It's no, that's not entirely.

424
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:02,600
You need an audience.

425
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:07,240
You need at least one person out there that you're going to communicate with as you play.

426
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,680
And then we reach somebody.

427
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,320
Just what takes one person.

428
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:11,320
Yes.

429
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:12,320
Right?

430
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:13,320
Yes.

431
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,960
And then when you make a recording, you're playing for the sound engineer in the booth.

432
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:17,960
Yes.

433
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,000
Well, thank you, Michael.

434
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,320
It's been a really great conversation.

435
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,240
I'm really enjoying this now.

436
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,960
Time is running up and we're toward the end of our wonderful conversation here, but I

437
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,760
just want to know a few more things.

438
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,480
So one is, what is your next step or next phase in your career?

439
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,720
What's your next goal?

440
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,680
Not that it doesn't have to be the specific.

441
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,200
We know the specifics like that your recording is coming up, your concert is coming up in

442
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,200
September.

443
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,200
Yes.

444
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,640
You asked a very good question.

445
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:57,720
I want to play more live and I want to start booking more venues and playing because recording

446
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,000
can only take you so far.

447
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,320
I want to just go live.

448
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:07,720
I want to do more streaming and more live concerts.

449
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:08,720
Yeah.

450
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:09,720
Yeah.

451
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:10,720
And it will happen.

452
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:17,040
I can't wait for really the concert to attend in September and more.

453
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,160
So yeah, that would be great.

454
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,160
Wonderful.

455
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:21,160
It's enjoyable.

456
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:26,240
Look, you cannot set concrete career goals because you never know how the industry is

457
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,000
going to change and what's going to click into place.

458
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:34,960
All you can do is be very alert and look at a variety of different options and see what

459
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,600
clicks into place.

460
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,760
Otherwise you're going to be deeply unhappy.

461
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,960
Very unhappy if your number one goal here is to secure a traditional management by a

462
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,560
certain number of years.

463
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,800
I don't know if that may ever happen.

464
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,600
I'm fine with that never happening for me.

465
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,120
I came to terms with that.

466
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:56,560
But in music school, everybody's sort of grinding the same thing.

467
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:03,600
They're either doing competition after competition, hoping to secure a traditional management,

468
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,880
which is going to last only a couple of years anyway, in most cases three or four years

469
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:13,240
if you win something and then they kind of grind these degrees and then you hope to secure

470
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:18,640
like a college position by a certain amount of time after which people have told me, you

471
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:24,240
know, if you don't secure a college professorship, like an X number of years after graduation,

472
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:25,760
you may not be hireable.

473
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:26,760
I'm fine with that.

474
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,800
Yeah, but you know, honestly, yeah, but it's not true though.

475
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:31,800
It's not true though.

476
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,560
And it's not entirely true.

477
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,600
You can't set like artificial deadlines for yourself like that.

478
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,960
And you can't you can't just start doing the same thing, you know, getting into a mode

479
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,080
where you're doing the same thing over and over and hoping something's going to finally

480
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,080
click into place.

481
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,560
That's a definition of insanity.

482
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,800
Yeah, but you know what?

483
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,760
Unknown makes us thrive.

484
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,560
Yeah, it's it's it's it's hard.

485
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:02,840
But the unknown makes us who we are as artists.

486
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:08,400
That's why our industry this performing arts industry is so interesting.

487
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,400
And you can really push so hard so far, right?

488
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,200
Because of the unknown that you're pursuing, right?

489
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,200
Yes.

490
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:18,200
Yes.

491
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,640
Your only enemy is what's what's inside your mind, but the limitations that you create

492
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,800
for yourself, you think it can be done actually probably can just do it.

493
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:25,800
Yes, do it.

494
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,320
Just go for it right now.

495
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:28,320
Yeah.

496
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,240
Before we go, I want to promote.

497
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:35,080
So I know the concert is coming up with September 2nd, but this show comes up on the fifth.

498
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,120
So unfortunately, it won't be much of a promotion.

499
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,480
But for listeners, if you're listening and who are interested in learning more about

500
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,680
Michael, please go to Michael K.

501
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,640
Koff piano dot com.

502
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:54,640
And also he will have the next all this album coming out in sometime next year, early next

503
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,940
year, 2024.

504
00:29:56,940 --> 00:30:03,200
So please on the lookout for his recording on any music streaming services, I guess.

505
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,200
Yes.

506
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:05,200
Yes.

507
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:06,200
And band camp and others.

508
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:07,200
Yes.

509
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,200
OK, great.

510
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,200
Fantastic.

511
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:14,760
So Michael, again, this has been a great fun, inspirational conversation.

512
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,520
But before I let you go, we have one more thing to do.

513
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,320
It's called the piano pod rapid fire questions.

514
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,880
And this is part of the show where I get to ask fun questions to each guest.

515
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,920
Now here's a little twist.

516
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:36,320
As silly as these questions may sound, your answers may reveal who you truly are.

517
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:44,360
And then so I want you to answer each question with the shortest response as responses as

518
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:45,440
possible.

519
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,680
So and then you don't have to explain anything.

520
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:48,920
Just just do it.

521
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:49,920
All right.

522
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:50,920
Are you ready?

523
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:51,920
Yes.

524
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,560
Number one, what is your comfort food?

525
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:56,560
Pasta.

526
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:57,560
Yeah.

527
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,440
How do you like your coffee?

528
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:06,000
Espresso double shot with a little bit of steamed milk.

529
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,480
Cats or dogs?

530
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,440
Dogs, preferably basset hounds.

531
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,440
Sunrise or sunset?

532
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:13,440
Sunset.

533
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,440
Summer or winter?

534
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:16,440
Winter.

535
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,920
Good old paper book or e-book?

536
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:19,920
E-book.

537
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,000
OK.

538
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,120
What is your word of words to live by?

539
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,920
I don't think I have any.

540
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:26,920
I don't think I have any.

541
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:27,920
It might be an obscene word.

542
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,720
It might be something obscene when you in a frustration, you say something like that.

543
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,520
But I'm a product of the of the 21st century, unfortunately.

544
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:38,880
It's OK.

545
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,000
So what is the most quality you look for in other people?

546
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,320
An openness and good intentions.

547
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:51,800
Just open to new things and not looking to beat anybody down because there's really kind

548
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,280
of two types of people.

549
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:58,640
I want you to name three people who inspire you, living or dead.

550
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,040
My mother, I would say also Franz Liszt.

551
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:09,680
And maybe for pianists, for pianists of the past, it's really, really hard to say.

552
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:10,680
Really hard to say.

553
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,480
Maybe somebody like Ignaz Friedman.

554
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,640
Oh, yes.

555
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,360
I love his interpretation of Chopin Nocturne.

556
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:20,360
Oh, that's a great one.

557
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:21,360
That's a great one.

558
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:22,360
B major, especially.

559
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,360
Oh, the E flat, the E flat, E flat major.

560
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,560
There's a B major piano roll that you're referring to, but there's also the acoustic recording

561
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,760
of the of the E flat.

562
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:32,760
Oh, yeah.

563
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:33,760
Yes.

564
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:34,760
Yes.

565
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:35,760
Wow.

566
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:36,760
Yes.

567
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:37,760
Great.

568
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,080
Now, name one piece in your current playlist.

569
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,400
Probably a bunch of Art Tatum stuff, something like Art Tatum, Night and Day.

570
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,760
Oh, 1946.

571
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,800
I love that pianist, jazz pianist so much.

572
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:49,800
Oh, yes.

573
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:50,800
He's incredible.

574
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:51,800
All right.

575
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,600
So last but least, fill in the blank.

576
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,720
Music is blank.

577
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,000
Life music is life.

578
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,000
Wonderful.

579
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,000
Yay.

580
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,000
Ding, ding.

581
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,000
You won.

582
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,080
So this concludes this episode of the PianoPod.

583
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,800
Thank you, Michael, for joining you.

584
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:09,800
No, thank you.

585
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,400
It was great to be here.

586
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:12,400
Oh, wonderful.

587
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,640
And thank you for sharing your stories and insights and expertise.

588
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:22,080
You can learn more about Dr. Michael Kakoff and his amazing work through his website at

589
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:27,560
MichaelKakoffPiano.com and you can listen to his recordings on all major music streaming

590
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:28,560
services.

591
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,960
All the links are listed in the show notes.

592
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,680
Thank you to my wonderful audience and fans for tuning in.

593
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:39,920
If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review it on wherever you get your podcast.

594
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,080
Remember to hit the thumbs up button and subscribe to my YouTube channel if you are watching

595
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,080
this episode on YouTube.

596
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:52,440
Follow the PianoPod on social media to get the latest piano news via Facebook, Twitter,

597
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:53,920
Instagram and LinkedIn.

598
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,640
I will see you for the next episode of the PianoPod.

599
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,400
Bye everyone and bye Michael.

600
00:33:58,400 --> 00:33:59,400
Thank you so much.

601
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:00,400
Thank you.

602
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:01,400
Appreciate it.

603
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:13,280
Thank you.