WEBVTT 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:18.399 Welcome to artificially intelligent marketing, 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:21.519 a weekly podcast where we stay on top of the 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:24.820 latest trends, tips, and tools in the world of 00:00:24.820 --> 00:00:27.620 marketing AI, helping you get the best results 00:00:27.620 --> 00:00:30.780 from your marketing efforts. Now let's join our 00:00:30.780 --> 00:00:34.780 hosts, Paul Avery and Martin Broadhurst. Here 00:00:34.780 --> 00:00:37.140 we are again on Artificially Intelligent Marketing, 00:00:37.219 --> 00:00:40.960 and we're a second episode back and already know 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:42.719 Martin Broadhurst, but that's all right because 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:45.020 today we've brought in an upgrade. We've got 00:00:45.020 --> 00:00:46.979 my friend Harrison Wade from the life science 00:00:46.979 --> 00:00:49.659 industry. Harrison, how are you doing? Good, 00:00:49.700 --> 00:00:52.000 Paul. Great to be here. I'm so glad that you 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:54.979 guys started this podcast up again. I think it 00:00:54.979 --> 00:00:57.340 was almost like two years ago or something. I 00:00:57.340 --> 00:00:59.770 remember listening to like pretty much every 00:00:59.770 --> 00:01:03.329 episode at the beginning and uh it was like oh 00:01:03.329 --> 00:01:05.909 it just disappeared for a while and i know we 00:01:05.909 --> 00:01:07.950 had chatted about you know why that was happening 00:01:07.950 --> 00:01:11.069 but uh which is obviously exciting but yeah i'm 00:01:11.069 --> 00:01:13.150 so glad it's back and obviously excited to be 00:01:13.150 --> 00:01:15.730 here yeah i love it why don't you tell the um 00:01:15.730 --> 00:01:17.769 the listeners a bit about yourself you know your 00:01:17.769 --> 00:01:21.219 story to date what you're doing now yeah Yeah, 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:24.500 so actually, I fell into the life sciences later 00:01:24.500 --> 00:01:27.180 in my career. So I think most people in this 00:01:27.180 --> 00:01:29.700 industry started off probably in the lab and 00:01:29.700 --> 00:01:32.219 then maybe moved into commercial, into marketing 00:01:32.219 --> 00:01:34.879 later in their career. I actually started in 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:36.959 software sales at the beginning of my career, 00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:40.540 selling to IT and then marketing, and then ultimately 00:01:40.540 --> 00:01:42.480 fell into the life sciences at a company called 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:45.200 Synthego and joined relatively early to help 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:47.920 build out the inside sales team, a lot of the 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:50.450 systems processes, the sales training. implement 00:01:50.450 --> 00:01:54.510 functions there. And one of the things that we 00:01:54.510 --> 00:01:57.390 saw along the way was that a lot of reps were 00:01:57.390 --> 00:01:59.790 coming in. These really skilled reps would come 00:01:59.790 --> 00:02:01.349 in and say, wow, you guys have some of the best 00:02:01.349 --> 00:02:03.689 tools, some of the best tech, some of the best 00:02:03.689 --> 00:02:06.310 training that we've seen in the industry. I was 00:02:06.310 --> 00:02:07.790 like, well, that's interesting. I didn't think 00:02:07.790 --> 00:02:09.669 it was that cool. Because I think coming from 00:02:09.669 --> 00:02:16.009 the software world, a lot of the stuff was normal. 00:02:16.129 --> 00:02:19.310 It was very normalized. But I think even still 00:02:19.310 --> 00:02:21.810 today in the life sciences, like there are many 00:02:21.810 --> 00:02:24.810 companies that aren't even adopting technology 00:02:24.810 --> 00:02:28.629 that was used 10 years ago and maybe even more 00:02:28.629 --> 00:02:32.909 than that 15 years ago. And so, yeah, it was 00:02:32.909 --> 00:02:35.949 kind of like this opportunity where I moved to 00:02:35.949 --> 00:02:39.389 London. I was working with my co -founder, Nick, 00:02:39.590 --> 00:02:42.550 who I met at Synthago. And we started Succession 00:02:42.550 --> 00:02:45.969 together to really help bring a lot of this like. 00:02:46.270 --> 00:02:49.990 you know go -to -market tech tools uh training 00:02:49.990 --> 00:02:53.210 to the life science uh industry specifically 00:02:53.210 --> 00:02:55.810 so that's a lot of what we do today uh right 00:02:55.810 --> 00:02:58.870 now as we're talking we have a team of four and 00:02:58.870 --> 00:03:03.889 we have worked with around 75 different life 00:03:03.889 --> 00:03:06.650 science companies from everything from go to 00:03:06.650 --> 00:03:09.330 market so like running outbound campaigns paid 00:03:09.330 --> 00:03:13.259 ads content setting up different CRM systems 00:03:13.259 --> 00:03:16.699 and automations and sales training that we do 00:03:16.699 --> 00:03:20.500 as well. So far, I love it. It's amazing. And 00:03:20.500 --> 00:03:22.819 yeah, that's a bit. And I think one of the things 00:03:22.819 --> 00:03:25.479 we had talked about was when we started the agency, 00:03:25.699 --> 00:03:29.580 it was relatively early in the sort of AI hype 00:03:29.580 --> 00:03:32.939 cycle. And so I think Nick and I both realized 00:03:32.939 --> 00:03:35.879 very early on that we needed to be AI first. 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:39.800 and ai forward so i know having your podcast 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:42.460 in the early days as well was very useful so 00:03:42.460 --> 00:03:44.719 hearing you know you and martin's take on everything 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:48.960 was you know i would say a great way for me to 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:51.539 like understand all the different news and things 00:03:51.539 --> 00:03:53.039 that was going on and then i could go and dig 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:55.439 deeper into it myself and then continue to to 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:57.259 figure out how best we could use ai in our agency 00:03:57.259 --> 00:03:59.979 yeah i think one of the things i really loved 00:03:59.979 --> 00:04:02.659 about some of our early conversations that you 00:04:02.659 --> 00:04:06.860 know industry trade shows as an example is I 00:04:06.860 --> 00:04:09.719 would say you're a bit more like Martin than 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:12.520 I am, which is that you two are very good at 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:15.039 like having a vision for seeing how a process 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:19.360 works now and being very good at iterating and 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:22.259 testing different ways of bringing AI into that 00:04:22.259 --> 00:04:26.720 process. because you know every time i see you 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:28.819 you've done some other really cool thing where 00:04:28.819 --> 00:04:31.000 i'm like i need to remember the details of this 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:32.420 so i can talk about it on the podcast so it's 00:04:32.420 --> 00:04:34.120 much better to have you here to share the details 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:36.240 so before we get into some of the ai bit i'm 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:38.759 actually quite interested to know what from the 00:04:38.759 --> 00:04:42.120 sort of sales enablement operations rev ops type 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:44.319 stuff what was the cool stuff that people were 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:46.779 coming in and going hey this is cool that clearly 00:04:46.779 --> 00:04:49.319 most other people didn't have but you had So 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:51.759 I would say even in the early days, it was something 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:54.839 as simple as an email sequencing platform, something 00:04:54.839 --> 00:04:57.899 like a sales loft and outreach at the time were 00:04:57.899 --> 00:05:02.819 some of the main ones. And even today, we've 00:05:02.819 --> 00:05:05.040 trained companies that don't even have a tool 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:07.300 to do that. And so there's still email sequencing 00:05:07.300 --> 00:05:10.399 platform is like the way where you can create 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:13.439 a set of steps for a sequence. So like email 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:16.139 one goes. goes out email two follows a couple 00:05:16.139 --> 00:05:18.180 days later email three follows after that right 00:05:18.180 --> 00:05:21.879 like a way to sort of organize um your top of 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:24.360 funnel prospecting activity and we've talked 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:26.480 to a couple companies many companies today actually 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:28.100 that like don't even have these sorts of systems 00:05:28.100 --> 00:05:30.819 in place um typically they're more like the mid 00:05:30.819 --> 00:05:33.680 to large size um smaller companies i think are 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:35.199 trying to figure out how to adopt this stuff 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:38.100 quicker but it doesn't seem to be like the norm 00:05:38.100 --> 00:05:41.000 so like that was something really simple early 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:44.769 on um I think another one was just how we sort 00:05:44.769 --> 00:05:50.069 of built out our training that we would do as 00:05:50.069 --> 00:05:53.170 well. So rather than having, say, a Google Doc 00:05:53.170 --> 00:05:55.490 with a bunch of links in it to go watch different 00:05:55.490 --> 00:05:57.509 trainings, or rather than just throwing somebody 00:05:57.509 --> 00:05:58.990 into the wolves, like, hey, now you're out in 00:05:58.990 --> 00:06:01.790 the field, go watch these people sell. We actually 00:06:01.790 --> 00:06:03.689 have structured training where we brought in 00:06:03.689 --> 00:06:06.689 different experts from the team, from across 00:06:06.689 --> 00:06:11.759 different departments as well. talk about the 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:13.759 things that they were best at and train people 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:16.459 at the things that they're best at and then structured 00:06:16.459 --> 00:06:19.480 it in like a formal like onboarding process that 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:21.620 took place over a couple of months rather than 00:06:21.620 --> 00:06:23.720 like trying to fit it all within one week as 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:26.379 an example. So I think those are some things 00:06:26.379 --> 00:06:28.459 off the top of my head. Yeah, that's really helpful 00:06:28.459 --> 00:06:30.379 because I think one of the things I really love 00:06:30.379 --> 00:06:31.939 to learn a bit more about today that I think 00:06:31.939 --> 00:06:34.480 would be valuable to the audience, even if most 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:36.180 of our audience is working in marketing, I think 00:06:36.180 --> 00:06:37.980 a lot of these principles are going to be translatable. 00:06:38.259 --> 00:06:43.199 Where are you? now bringing AI into those, into 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:45.120 the way you work, or some interesting processes 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:48.019 and sort of tricks that you're using AI for. 00:06:48.740 --> 00:06:50.740 It's funny you actually talk about like, do these 00:06:50.740 --> 00:06:53.959 things apply to marketing? So I want to hit on 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:59.360 that first, because I was probably like, I don't 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:01.240 know, seven years ago, seven, eight years ago, 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:04.339 it was like very much like the outbound motion 00:07:04.339 --> 00:07:07.970 should live in sales. Your SDR team should report 00:07:07.970 --> 00:07:10.509 into sales. And I was like, I was a hard stop. 00:07:10.670 --> 00:07:13.189 Should not report in marketing. That was my feeling 00:07:13.189 --> 00:07:19.850 at the time as a salesperson. However, now, I 00:07:19.850 --> 00:07:22.110 would say salespeople and sales leaders are typically 00:07:22.110 --> 00:07:26.029 not great with tech and tools and automation 00:07:26.029 --> 00:07:28.490 flows. It doesn't come naturally to a lot of 00:07:28.490 --> 00:07:31.459 them. Whereas marketing... a lot of marketing 00:07:31.459 --> 00:07:33.540 people are used to these things because they 00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:35.379 go into HubSpot, they've got to build out a workflow, 00:07:35.699 --> 00:07:38.560 email, nurture, whatever. They're more, I think, 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:42.899 tech forward. And so I think a lot of these AI 00:07:42.899 --> 00:07:46.319 flows and these systems for not only inbound 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:50.420 follow -up, as an example, but also outbound 00:07:50.420 --> 00:07:53.180 should probably live under marketing. And you 00:07:53.180 --> 00:07:54.920 should probably figure out who is the person 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:59.379 who's AI first, loves the systems. bit of a nerd 00:07:59.379 --> 00:08:01.980 when it comes to like, you know, more like engineering 00:08:01.980 --> 00:08:05.220 type of stuff, and put them in charge of building 00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:11.959 this stuff out. Because the possibilities are 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:14.439 crazy, like you could literally probably put 00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:16.519 AI in any workflow that you could possibly imagine. 00:08:17.139 --> 00:08:19.480 And so I'm happy to talk through some that we 00:08:19.480 --> 00:08:22.600 come up with. But I think also, the way other 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:25.300 people should be thinking about this is, what 00:08:25.300 --> 00:08:27.980 are the processes that you're doing today? that 00:08:27.980 --> 00:08:30.199 are like a pain in the butt and then the first 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:33.659 step is okay let's go and plug in ai into certain 00:08:33.659 --> 00:08:36.120 areas of it let's use automation tools in certain 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:38.460 areas of it to just like pick like two or three 00:08:38.460 --> 00:08:41.100 of them and just like go use it and do it and 00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:43.820 get something that works because i think what 00:08:43.820 --> 00:08:45.679 a lot of people will do is they're like overwhelmed 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:48.440 with how much how the potential of how they could 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:50.600 use ai there's a bajillion different tools every 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:52.769 day there's a new one coming out like The only 00:08:52.769 --> 00:08:55.389 reason I have X on my phone is because that is 00:08:55.389 --> 00:08:57.429 where all of the AI news comes and everything 00:08:57.429 --> 00:09:00.190 hits there first, right? So like, yeah, I'm like 00:09:00.190 --> 00:09:02.490 a hype cycle guy. So like, I get all hyped up 00:09:02.490 --> 00:09:04.009 around new stuff. So like, I see the new stuff 00:09:04.009 --> 00:09:06.389 come and I'm like, gotta go check it out. But 00:09:06.389 --> 00:09:07.809 I think for the average person, it's probably 00:09:07.809 --> 00:09:10.690 not like great. And so pick a couple of workflows, 00:09:11.029 --> 00:09:13.570 automate them, get an idea of how you can start 00:09:13.570 --> 00:09:16.629 to leverage this stuff. And then like the second 00:09:16.629 --> 00:09:19.289 phase is now how can you start to do things that 00:09:19.289 --> 00:09:22.399 you couldn't previously do before? And I think 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:24.779 that's sort of the areas that you can start to 00:09:24.779 --> 00:09:29.259 get into. I love that. So let's do a thought 00:09:29.259 --> 00:09:31.139 experiment. We're going to do it. We're going 00:09:31.139 --> 00:09:35.080 to do it live. We're going to pick a workflow 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:36.799 and we're going to be like, that's a pain in 00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:39.779 the bum. Let's talk through where AI could help 00:09:39.779 --> 00:09:42.000 in it. And then I think we'll get creative and 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:44.340 think about, well, what new capabilities can 00:09:44.340 --> 00:09:47.039 we do in that area with an AI? So are there any 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:49.179 particular workflows that spring to mind where 00:09:49.179 --> 00:09:51.720 you're like, okay, cool, here's an example. Yeah. 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:54.840 I mean, I think the perfect one is, I mean, the 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:57.159 obvious one is like sales prospecting, but the 00:09:57.159 --> 00:09:58.779 way I think about this is probably a little bit 00:09:58.779 --> 00:10:02.299 different than maybe others. And so when you 00:10:02.299 --> 00:10:05.000 were, if you are a human SDR and you're going 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:07.820 to go prospect to somebody. you're probably going 00:10:07.820 --> 00:10:10.299 to go do some amount of research on this person, 00:10:10.379 --> 00:10:11.919 right? So you're going to probably go to their 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:13.620 company website. You'll probably go to their 00:10:13.620 --> 00:10:15.899 LinkedIn profile. You may go try and find different 00:10:15.899 --> 00:10:17.679 publications. If you have like a side of leads 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:19.779 account or something like that, like where are 00:10:19.779 --> 00:10:21.720 you going to go to go find the research that 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:24.220 you're going to do? My guess is it's probably 00:10:24.220 --> 00:10:26.820 in the range of 10 minutes of research that you're 00:10:26.820 --> 00:10:29.919 going to do on this person. Then you're going 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:32.059 to think about how do I take that information 00:10:32.059 --> 00:10:36.279 and then write a email or a LinkedIn message 00:10:36.279 --> 00:10:38.440 or prepare yourself for a call, whatever it is, 00:10:38.460 --> 00:10:43.940 to that person. So today, AI can basically reverse 00:10:43.940 --> 00:10:48.460 engineer different automation tools, can reverse 00:10:48.460 --> 00:10:50.919 engineer that 10 minutes of research upfront, 00:10:51.220 --> 00:10:55.419 and then also draft that sort of context into 00:10:55.419 --> 00:10:59.019 a message for you to where you are editing versus 00:10:59.019 --> 00:11:03.299 doing all of that work yourself. So you can imagine 00:11:03.299 --> 00:11:04.740 you got like a hundred prospects you want to 00:11:04.740 --> 00:11:07.899 go after. You could have that list like ready 00:11:07.899 --> 00:11:10.440 for you to review in the morning rather than 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:13.440 like having to spend whatever, a thousand minutes 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.559 going through research on each of them. But what 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:20.960 type of tools, like, is that, is that like a 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:23.000 chat bot that you say, here's a list of people 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:24.639 do the research and you get up in the morning 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:26.259 and then you've got an output on or an email 00:11:26.259 --> 00:11:28.440 or, you know, how does that actually translate 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:31.370 into real world application? Yeah, and I think 00:11:31.370 --> 00:11:34.309 this is also where a lot of people run into issues 00:11:34.309 --> 00:11:36.750 with AI is they'll try and shove all of this 00:11:36.750 --> 00:11:39.409 into a chat GPT where it's like, hey, here's 00:11:39.409 --> 00:11:42.629 the person I'm trying to reach out to. Do the 00:11:42.629 --> 00:11:45.029 research for me and write the message. And that 00:11:45.029 --> 00:11:47.950 is always going to be terrible. And I think that's 00:11:47.950 --> 00:11:50.289 where you get people that say, oh, it's so bad. 00:11:50.470 --> 00:11:52.549 AI messaging is terrible. And it's like, yeah, 00:11:52.669 --> 00:11:56.669 because you're using it terribly. If I think 00:11:56.669 --> 00:11:59.259 about... There's probably three core things that 00:11:59.259 --> 00:12:02.740 you have to have as just context for these models 00:12:02.740 --> 00:12:05.899 to work effectively. And if you think of any 00:12:05.899 --> 00:12:08.340 AI model, the context is the most important piece. 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:10.700 That's all of the information that you're providing 00:12:10.700 --> 00:12:13.039 it upfront so that it can provide you with the 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:16.059 output that you want. And I'd say those three 00:12:16.059 --> 00:12:18.759 things are information about your company and 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:20.899 your product services, what you do, what you 00:12:20.899 --> 00:12:23.039 help solve, problems that you solve for people. 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:25.600 information about the person that you're reaching 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:27.419 out to right so that's going to be the company 00:12:27.419 --> 00:12:30.480 information their publications like i don't know 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:32.559 different products they might use linkedin information 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:35.519 that sort of thing and then how you wanted to 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.639 write the message and i think people don't really 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:40.940 think about these three things in tandem as being 00:12:40.940 --> 00:12:44.279 like a core part of like the context engine And 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:46.279 the third one I was talking about is how you 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:48.320 wanted to write the message is so important because 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:50.519 AI is not going to be good at writing the message. 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:53.720 So we have this 27 page document that we use 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:57.080 to basically as contacts, we made a custom GPT 00:12:57.080 --> 00:13:00.860 with it to help us write the messages exactly 00:13:00.860 --> 00:13:03.879 how we want with different sets of frameworks 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:05.519 and different ways that we might want to write 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:07.860 it because not everybody responds to the exact 00:13:07.860 --> 00:13:09.879 same sets of messaging. So we need different 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:12.019 variations of messaging that we're going to use 00:13:12.019 --> 00:13:14.759 in there. And again, that's just like one of 00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:16.639 the three pieces of context that I'm requiring. 00:13:17.379 --> 00:13:20.039 I love that. I'm glad that you mentioned like 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:24.259 26, it's 27 page briefing document, basically. 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:27.879 Like when you're saying you must give the models 00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:32.200 context, five bullet points instead of one bullet 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:34.320 point is not what you're saying. You are saying 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:39.259 basically an almost. Like a more thorough brief 00:13:39.259 --> 00:13:41.179 than you'd give a human, really, because, of 00:13:41.179 --> 00:13:42.919 course, humans have real world experience to 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:44.679 draw upon. They might have written messages in 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:46.419 the past that work for them that they can lean 00:13:46.419 --> 00:13:49.679 into. But actually, you're probably giving examples 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:52.799 that it can mimic and all this other stuff all 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:54.500 in this one document. Is that how that works? 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:57.799 Yeah, there's essentially rules that we have 00:13:57.799 --> 00:14:00.940 of do's and don'ts. Then there are frameworks. 00:14:01.019 --> 00:14:03.659 Then there are example messages. And then there's 00:14:03.659 --> 00:14:07.059 also spam words to avoid. These are words that 00:14:07.059 --> 00:14:09.139 are going to get caught up in spam. If you use 00:14:09.139 --> 00:14:11.600 the word free in your message or you use the 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:14.000 word promotion, those are more likely to end 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:17.299 up in spam. all of these things sort of like 00:14:17.299 --> 00:14:20.519 cobbled together in this document um you're sort 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.460 of like outline if you're not familiar with like 00:14:22.460 --> 00:14:26.080 markdown format um like markdown is a way that 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:29.559 ai is really good at understanding how things 00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:31.580 are structured and so if you can structure your 00:14:31.580 --> 00:14:34.279 documents or your context in markdown format 00:14:34.279 --> 00:14:36.460 um it's going to be better too it's going to 00:14:36.460 --> 00:14:38.519 be easier for the ai to interpret understand 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:42.220 that content i'm glad you mentioned markdown 00:14:42.220 --> 00:14:44.909 as well i got two bookmarks that get hammered 00:14:44.909 --> 00:14:47.789 multiple times a day in my in my browser one 00:14:47.789 --> 00:14:50.870 turns google doc into markdown and the other 00:14:50.870 --> 00:14:53.490 one turns an entire web page into cleaned up 00:14:53.490 --> 00:14:58.129 markdown um so that you can give ai tools structured 00:14:58.129 --> 00:15:00.250 content that they can that they can understand 00:15:00.250 --> 00:15:02.490 and it's these i think these are the little things 00:15:02.490 --> 00:15:05.330 that you pick up over time that probably almost 00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:07.970 seem not meaningful to share with other people 00:15:07.970 --> 00:15:11.230 um but it's made a big difference for me yeah 00:15:12.450 --> 00:15:14.789 Yeah, we think of them as second nature, right? 00:15:14.850 --> 00:15:16.330 Because we've done it so much. So it's like, 00:15:16.389 --> 00:15:18.610 we've toyed around with them and played with 00:15:18.610 --> 00:15:20.610 them so much. And I think that's the other thing 00:15:20.610 --> 00:15:23.769 that a lot of people get stuck on is they try 00:15:23.769 --> 00:15:25.710 something doesn't look good, doesn't give them 00:15:25.710 --> 00:15:27.350 the output that they want. And they don't spend 00:15:27.350 --> 00:15:29.590 the time to really dig into these tools. Like, 00:15:29.649 --> 00:15:32.169 I posted something the other day, which I'm sure 00:15:32.169 --> 00:15:33.909 we can talk about here in a sec. But like, I 00:15:33.909 --> 00:15:36.149 think a very underutilized skill is like the 00:15:36.149 --> 00:15:39.090 technical prowess of understanding like APIs 00:15:39.090 --> 00:15:43.059 and webhooks. like how data flows between different 00:15:43.059 --> 00:15:46.860 systems because if you're able to do that it's 00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:49.240 a lot easier to like connect disparate data sources 00:15:49.240 --> 00:15:53.179 um and then also like pass data from one tool 00:15:53.179 --> 00:15:55.279 to another where one ai tool might be really 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:57.100 good at one thing and another ai tool might be 00:15:57.100 --> 00:16:00.440 good at another thing um yeah so i think there's 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:02.399 it's like an underrated skill there so are you 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:04.299 building some of those types of things and can 00:16:04.299 --> 00:16:06.279 you give me an example i mean we i asked a minute 00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:10.129 ago about you know, having 100 leads and then 00:16:10.129 --> 00:16:13.149 coming back in the morning and having 100 prospecting 00:16:13.149 --> 00:16:15.289 emails to just double check, which you can't 00:16:15.289 --> 00:16:17.470 do with ChatGPT, right? It's a conversational 00:16:17.470 --> 00:16:19.590 interface, not a here's a big job, come back 00:16:19.590 --> 00:16:22.690 in a day with the results. But you could build 00:16:22.690 --> 00:16:25.309 something like that if you were comfortable using 00:16:25.309 --> 00:16:27.590 APIs and stuff. So are those the types of things 00:16:27.590 --> 00:16:31.490 you've been playing with? Yeah, I mean, our command 00:16:31.490 --> 00:16:34.830 center, if you will, is this tool called Clay. 00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:37.940 um where if you're in sales on linkedin you've 00:16:37.940 --> 00:16:40.220 probably at some point seen somebody post a clay 00:16:40.220 --> 00:16:43.320 table or talk about clay they've like gotten 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:47.039 an insane valuation um over the last couple of 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:49.460 months and years but essentially it's like a 00:16:49.460 --> 00:16:52.500 smart spreadsheet not to be confused with smart 00:16:52.500 --> 00:16:55.840 sheets but it's a smart spreadsheet where each 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:58.559 row is like a record so it can either be a company 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:01.289 or an individual person And then each column 00:17:01.289 --> 00:17:05.150 is a different data point or enrichment or where 00:17:05.150 --> 00:17:08.410 you can make a different API call. So as an example, 00:17:08.529 --> 00:17:10.970 let's add a LinkedIn profile for somebody I wanted 00:17:10.970 --> 00:17:13.690 to target. Well, I could use Clay to enrich that 00:17:13.690 --> 00:17:16.049 LinkedIn profile. Now I have all the information 00:17:16.049 --> 00:17:20.170 in Clay in this one place about them and their 00:17:20.170 --> 00:17:23.069 LinkedIn profile. I could then pull out, say, 00:17:23.089 --> 00:17:25.509 the company that they work at, then go and get 00:17:25.509 --> 00:17:27.509 the domain for that company, go to the company 00:17:27.509 --> 00:17:29.910 website, scrape the company website, understand 00:17:29.910 --> 00:17:31.930 what's going on, maybe go visit their pipeline 00:17:31.930 --> 00:17:34.450 page, what therapeutic areas are they going after, 00:17:34.569 --> 00:17:36.769 what targets are they going after. Those then 00:17:36.769 --> 00:17:38.990 get extrapolated into new fields within Clay. 00:17:40.349 --> 00:17:46.730 Then I could leverage different AI models to 00:17:46.730 --> 00:17:49.089 then interpret all of this information that we 00:17:49.089 --> 00:17:50.950 gathered about this person to come up with unique 00:17:50.950 --> 00:17:53.230 insights i could then feed it information about 00:17:53.230 --> 00:17:55.109 my company and you can sort of like build out 00:17:55.109 --> 00:17:57.970 this whole table where then at the end you have 00:17:57.970 --> 00:18:00.769 this like you know message that gets generated 00:18:00.769 --> 00:18:03.390 using all of this context from these different 00:18:03.390 --> 00:18:06.450 fields and then like whatever you could send 00:18:06.450 --> 00:18:09.309 that message to your graphs in gmail or you could 00:18:09.309 --> 00:18:11.069 send it straight into your email sequence or 00:18:11.069 --> 00:18:13.910 you could have it um like get pushed to a google 00:18:13.910 --> 00:18:16.109 doc that you could review there's all sorts of 00:18:16.109 --> 00:18:18.269 like cool ways that you could do this stuff um 00:18:18.269 --> 00:18:21.490 and each of these other things along the way 00:18:21.490 --> 00:18:24.190 could also be a tool so like i know you're a 00:18:24.190 --> 00:18:27.269 big fan of heijin so heijin has an api so if 00:18:27.269 --> 00:18:30.329 you wanted to write a custom video message to 00:18:30.329 --> 00:18:33.730 somebody as an example using ai like heijin could 00:18:33.730 --> 00:18:36.210 be a you know one of these columns that you could 00:18:36.210 --> 00:18:38.670 enrich with a script to how you would send a 00:18:38.670 --> 00:18:41.589 message to that person and so By understanding 00:18:41.589 --> 00:18:43.529 how these tools talk to each other, you can do 00:18:43.529 --> 00:18:45.710 some really cool stuff. Yeah, that's awesome. 00:18:45.869 --> 00:18:49.170 So just to play that back, all these information 00:18:49.170 --> 00:18:52.490 sources being pulled into this sheet, it's interpreting 00:18:52.490 --> 00:18:55.490 them and then writing, say, a prospecting email. 00:18:55.609 --> 00:18:57.230 But like you say, you could even push that as 00:18:57.230 --> 00:18:58.849 a script. You could then write a script that 00:18:58.849 --> 00:19:00.569 then gets pushed to HeyGen, and then you've got 00:19:00.569 --> 00:19:03.789 a video embedded in your email as well. And if 00:19:03.789 --> 00:19:04.970 you want to write a different type of LinkedIn 00:19:04.970 --> 00:19:08.029 message, so you could have an example of, here's 00:19:08.029 --> 00:19:10.769 how we write emails. Here's how we write LinkedIn 00:19:10.769 --> 00:19:12.970 messages. Here's how we create video scripts. 00:19:13.210 --> 00:19:15.769 That could all be in one row. And then the output 00:19:15.769 --> 00:19:18.289 is now you've got three distinct messages across 00:19:18.289 --> 00:19:20.670 three different channels for that one individual. 00:19:21.509 --> 00:19:25.069 I love that. And I think that is a critical point 00:19:25.069 --> 00:19:30.089 because as these systems get easier to use, you 00:19:30.089 --> 00:19:31.750 know most people are going to be able to figure 00:19:31.750 --> 00:19:34.170 out a way of doing this as scale but probably 00:19:34.170 --> 00:19:36.849 averagely because they probably can't put that 00:19:36.849 --> 00:19:39.650 much time into the rules and the prompts whereas 00:19:39.650 --> 00:19:42.950 if you really want to be able to stand out it's 00:19:42.950 --> 00:19:46.910 the it's the 27 page context that drives the 00:19:46.910 --> 00:19:49.930 production of your script that makes it a world 00:19:49.930 --> 00:19:52.690 -class script that is the thing that really hits 00:19:52.690 --> 00:19:54.890 home with the audience not the fact that you 00:19:54.890 --> 00:19:57.940 can automate it as scale right Yeah, everybody's 00:19:57.940 --> 00:19:59.599 going to be able to do this stuff. They can already 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:04.180 today, right? And I think if you get emails from 00:20:04.180 --> 00:20:07.819 people and you're like, this is clearly AI, that 00:20:07.819 --> 00:20:09.779 is, again, I think your point is that is the 00:20:09.779 --> 00:20:12.700 average, right? What you need to do is play with 00:20:12.700 --> 00:20:15.259 it so much and understand how these models work 00:20:15.259 --> 00:20:19.000 to such like a deep understanding of them where 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:23.200 you can figure out how to force them to make 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:25.859 it look human, right? It doesn't have those AI 00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:27.960 tendencies, right? So if you do this enough times, 00:20:27.980 --> 00:20:30.319 you can start to read all these AI tendencies. 00:20:30.460 --> 00:20:32.440 You see all these AI tendencies, and then you 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:34.099 update your document, which is like, don't do 00:20:34.099 --> 00:20:36.099 this. Don't do that. Don't put an em dash, right? 00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:39.740 Don't say like, don't use this. Like, what is 00:20:39.740 --> 00:20:41.880 the cadence that it uses all the time? It loves 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:45.240 to say, it's not just this. Yeah. Like that type 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:47.140 of stuff. It's like, go human rights that way. 00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:49.779 Right. Or if it is, it's very few. And so you 00:20:49.779 --> 00:20:52.500 have to like. play with it and tweak it and constantly 00:20:52.500 --> 00:20:55.240 be updating this stuff. And I think people want 00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:58.759 AI to be the easy button, but it's not the easy 00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:01.920 button. It still requires a lot of work to constantly 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:05.660 be iterating and improving it over time. Yeah, 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:08.119 we used to call it, going back several years 00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:11.099 ago when Martin and I were doing training and 00:21:11.099 --> 00:21:13.460 consulting around this stuff, we used to call 00:21:13.460 --> 00:21:16.140 it the alien intern. And I think for all of the 00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:18.779 improvements, I still think it's an alien intern. 00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:24.640 It needs... context and guidance that the problem 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:27.079 is you see things thrown around like gpt5 is 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.960 at phd level and that has a bunch of connotations 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.380 associated with it rightly or wrongly that it's 00:21:32.380 --> 00:21:34.660 going to have a certain intelligence or level 00:21:34.660 --> 00:21:37.900 of capabilities um it doesn't have 15 years of 00:21:37.900 --> 00:21:40.400 sales prospecting experience it doesn't have 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.900 15 years of marketing experience in the real 00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:46.160 world seeing what works and what doesn't what 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:47.980 it does have though is it has the average of 00:21:47.980 --> 00:21:51.140 all of this stuff right which is i think where 00:21:51.140 --> 00:21:54.740 you get the average of the result so it's like 00:21:54.740 --> 00:21:58.160 it's got phd level experience meaning like it 00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:00.559 can answer really complex problems and questions 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:02.619 but then everything else is trained on is the 00:22:02.619 --> 00:22:05.019 average so it's like it's been trained on millions 00:22:05.019 --> 00:22:07.839 probably of average emails not like the best 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.559 emails or it's been trained on millions of like 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:12.720 marketing campaigns that are like the average 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:15.980 marketing campaign and so like to your point 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.380 how do you get how do you be excellent it's like 00:22:18.380 --> 00:22:20.440 it still has that human component how do you 00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:25.059 how do you use the human creativity to like then 00:22:25.059 --> 00:22:27.079 leverage ai with that like you still need the 00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:29.240 human creativity element yeah it's going to be 00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:30.920 like a normal distribution curve probably right 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:32.900 it's like it's probably got access to loads of 00:22:32.900 --> 00:22:35.079 blog posts about how to write the best emails 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:39.579 um but by definition you know the very best emails 00:22:39.579 --> 00:22:42.579 are the small amount of data in that population 00:22:42.579 --> 00:22:44.539 right at the far end of that normal distribution 00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:46.859 And when it's trying to work out the patterns, 00:22:47.019 --> 00:22:49.259 it's going to drift into the middle. And that's 00:22:49.259 --> 00:22:52.319 what's going to give you middling results. We 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.940 touched on this in a few ways there, but I'd 00:22:55.940 --> 00:23:00.279 love to get your take on the importance of humans 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:05.119 and creativity. And what constitutes the misuse 00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:08.819 of AI in sales prospecting and sales process? 00:23:09.549 --> 00:23:12.650 Copy and pasting and sending is the misuse, right? 00:23:12.829 --> 00:23:15.309 It's like I go, I get the result. I'm going to 00:23:15.309 --> 00:23:17.289 copy it. I'm going to paste it and I hit send, 00:23:17.450 --> 00:23:21.210 or I just assume that it's correct. AI still 00:23:21.210 --> 00:23:23.150 does hallucinate no matter how much content and 00:23:23.150 --> 00:23:24.509 information that you give it. So you'd still 00:23:24.509 --> 00:23:27.849 have to double check these things. And so I think 00:23:27.849 --> 00:23:31.230 that is probably the biggest misuse. That's probably 00:23:31.230 --> 00:23:33.819 across the board too. It's like I've seen. stuff 00:23:33.819 --> 00:23:36.960 is just like factually inaccurate um that's like 00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:39.119 posted online and blog posts and stuff like well 00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:41.240 i don't know where you got that from that's not 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:44.019 real um and so i think there's still like one 00:23:44.019 --> 00:23:47.180 the human in the loop to verify a lot of things 00:23:47.180 --> 00:23:51.000 but then also like it is not that creative right 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:53.059 it's trained on stuff that's already occurred 00:23:53.059 --> 00:23:56.400 so it's not going to come up with new novel concepts 00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:58.460 very well maybe that'll change in the future 00:23:58.460 --> 00:24:00.180 but i think today it's just not really there 00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:03.619 and so you still need the human creativity which 00:24:03.619 --> 00:24:06.460 I think comes from really understanding your 00:24:06.460 --> 00:24:09.420 customer and what your customer wants and needs 00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:11.720 and how your customer thinks, and then figuring 00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:15.660 out how you can provide novel, interesting content, 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:21.880 insights, value to them. And then you basically 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.140 force AI to your will, if you will, right? Which 00:24:25.140 --> 00:24:26.960 is like, how do I force it to get the outputs 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.180 that I want that achieve that outcome versus 00:24:29.180 --> 00:24:31.240 going to it and like, give me five ideas on a 00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:35.349 blog post idea, you know? Yeah, in a slightly 00:24:35.349 --> 00:24:37.130 tangential way, I've been watching some of the 00:24:37.130 --> 00:24:39.970 Sora 2 examples that have been coming out. One 00:24:39.970 --> 00:24:45.130 of my favorites is, it's like a cops style sort 00:24:45.130 --> 00:24:50.069 of road chase with Super Mario. And they try 00:24:50.069 --> 00:24:52.369 to pull him over. And it's Super Mario from Mario 00:24:52.369 --> 00:24:54.089 Kart. And if you haven't seen it, you should 00:24:54.089 --> 00:24:56.750 Google it. It's absolutely brilliant. Why do 00:24:56.750 --> 00:24:59.829 I like that? If AI had come up with that idea 00:24:59.829 --> 00:25:02.470 and then executed it. it would mean far less 00:25:02.470 --> 00:25:06.589 to me than me thinking, who is the genius who 00:25:06.589 --> 00:25:08.829 thought, you know what would be cool? I'll ask 00:25:08.829 --> 00:25:12.490 Sora to bring this idea to life for me. That's 00:25:12.490 --> 00:25:15.170 the interesting part to me. I don't want to go 00:25:15.170 --> 00:25:18.569 and watch a load of AI videos by AI, even if 00:25:18.569 --> 00:25:22.029 AI gets quite creative, because it's like the 00:25:22.029 --> 00:25:24.829 respect that I have for the creativity of the 00:25:24.829 --> 00:25:27.269 person who leveraged the tool that makes me like 00:25:27.269 --> 00:25:31.369 it, not just AI on. on steroids doing everything 00:25:31.369 --> 00:25:33.789 on its own and to your point i think when you 00:25:33.789 --> 00:25:38.549 get an email from a from a from an sdr or whoever 00:25:38.549 --> 00:25:41.430 that's been well thought out well researched 00:25:41.430 --> 00:25:45.430 if it tries to be clever or funny really feels 00:25:45.430 --> 00:25:48.509 genuinely human in it then you can empathize 00:25:48.509 --> 00:25:50.329 with it if you think the ai just came up with 00:25:50.329 --> 00:25:53.029 the jokes this doesn't hits the same right yeah 00:25:53.029 --> 00:25:56.150 jokes suck they're really bad it's very rare 00:25:56.150 --> 00:25:59.880 that you find a good one absolutely i think to 00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:02.359 your point like uh along the lines of the mario 00:26:02.359 --> 00:26:04.680 video uh utah i think you guys talked about this 00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:07.720 in your last episode which is the the yeti um 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:10.799 like there was i can't remember the brand now 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.099 which is strange but i remember the commercial 00:26:13.099 --> 00:26:15.220 they made like dozens of these different commercials 00:26:15.220 --> 00:26:19.339 with this like giant yeti you know snow abominable 00:26:19.339 --> 00:26:22.559 snowmen thing and uh like it was very clearly 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:24.759 ai but it was so creative and interesting it's 00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:27.900 like him skydiving out of a plane and like holding 00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:30.119 up like the product or whatever right like there's 00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:32.799 some there's really cool like brand stuff that 00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:35.299 they were able to do which was clearly ai but 00:26:35.299 --> 00:26:37.119 it was creative and so then it was able to go 00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:39.839 viral so you kind of have this concept like this 00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:41.680 we're probably at this interesting inflection 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:44.599 point where you could really get creative with 00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:48.259 like how your team is using ai to capture attention 00:26:49.339 --> 00:26:51.960 And as you probably know, in the life sciences, 00:26:51.980 --> 00:26:55.660 like the general marketing is quite bland a lot 00:26:55.660 --> 00:26:58.579 of the time. Right. A lot of people aren't willing 00:26:58.579 --> 00:27:03.339 to push the needle on the creative side and be 00:27:03.339 --> 00:27:07.299 risky. What a massive opportunity. Plus, I also 00:27:07.299 --> 00:27:09.460 think there is appetite for people who want to 00:27:09.460 --> 00:27:12.700 see something interesting, even from life science 00:27:12.700 --> 00:27:14.980 brands. I think one of the common pushbacks you'll 00:27:14.980 --> 00:27:17.200 always get is, you know, scientists are not. 00:27:17.450 --> 00:27:19.589 looking for us to entertain them they want the 00:27:19.589 --> 00:27:22.690 most robust reliable reagents and instruments 00:27:22.690 --> 00:27:24.650 and tools so that they can trust their research 00:27:24.650 --> 00:27:27.109 and it's like why can't it be both why is it 00:27:27.109 --> 00:27:31.009 why does it have to be one right yeah they still 00:27:31.009 --> 00:27:33.569 scroll tiktok and instagram and whatever they 00:27:33.569 --> 00:27:35.930 laugh at beams like same thing for executives 00:27:35.930 --> 00:27:37.690 like people think you have to be so stuffy when 00:27:37.690 --> 00:27:39.710 you're reaching out to executives again they 00:27:39.710 --> 00:27:42.069 are people they laugh at jokes like they have 00:27:42.069 --> 00:27:45.079 senses of humor I don't think that everything 00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:51.900 has to be stuffy, perfectly rehearsed and pass 00:27:51.900 --> 00:27:54.819 through 17 rounds of legal review before it's 00:27:54.819 --> 00:27:57.960 able to see the light of day. There's always 00:27:57.960 --> 00:27:59.720 going to be businesses that have to do that. 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:02.380 And there are always going to be businesses that, 00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:04.359 for whatever reason, absolutely feel they need 00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:06.839 to err on the side of caution. But if you're 00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:09.140 in a small or mid -sized business and you don't 00:28:09.140 --> 00:28:11.250 necessarily have those constraints, this has 00:28:11.250 --> 00:28:13.369 to be a competitive advantage that you at least 00:28:13.369 --> 00:28:17.990 look into, right? Because we're so deluged with 00:28:17.990 --> 00:28:19.769 content and that's going to get worse and worse 00:28:19.769 --> 00:28:22.769 and worse with AI. You have to break the pattern. 00:28:23.390 --> 00:28:25.710 And one way to do that is to connect with people 00:28:25.710 --> 00:28:27.609 emotionally or to make them laugh, right? And 00:28:27.609 --> 00:28:30.450 so ultimately, as much as the feature benefit 00:28:30.450 --> 00:28:32.750 set of your latest microscope is probably really 00:28:32.750 --> 00:28:35.769 interesting for the research applications it 00:28:35.769 --> 00:28:38.690 opens up and enables, that's not pattern matching 00:28:38.690 --> 00:28:41.579 in amongst all this other stuff, right? yeah 00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:43.480 it's like if you're to your point if you're going 00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:47.579 up against the you know big companies the thermos 00:28:47.579 --> 00:28:50.359 whoever the world like and you know that they 00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:52.539 have to have their like you know primmed and 00:28:52.539 --> 00:28:55.200 proper messaging that goes out and their specific 00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:58.579 ad copy that they have to use do something different 00:28:58.579 --> 00:29:01.099 right if you just go with the same thing using 00:29:01.099 --> 00:29:03.099 your color scheme like it's not going to stand 00:29:03.099 --> 00:29:06.980 out for sure um so just coming back quickly then 00:29:06.980 --> 00:29:09.559 to the misuse of ai because we talked about hygiene 00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:14.289 earlier and synthetic rep videos um you know 00:29:14.289 --> 00:29:16.630 a video that looks like harrison speaks like 00:29:16.630 --> 00:29:20.230 harrison is not harrison how do you feel about 00:29:20.230 --> 00:29:23.990 the use of the current set of video capabilities 00:29:23.990 --> 00:29:25.670 and then where do you think this is going to 00:29:25.670 --> 00:29:28.869 go in the future interesting i think that it's 00:29:28.869 --> 00:29:32.809 generally pretty good i think that unless somebody 00:29:32.809 --> 00:29:35.569 knows you it's hard to pick up some of the nuances 00:29:35.569 --> 00:29:37.750 like you will watch the video and be like that's 00:29:37.750 --> 00:29:39.569 not me like i don't talk like that that's not 00:29:39.569 --> 00:29:41.670 quite who i am but if you're sending it to somebody 00:29:41.670 --> 00:29:43.789 who has no idea who you are they don't know like 00:29:43.789 --> 00:29:48.190 your nuances or how your inflection in your voice 00:29:48.190 --> 00:29:52.049 um shows up and and it's only going to get better 00:29:52.049 --> 00:29:55.650 at that too but then The other thing I think 00:29:55.650 --> 00:29:58.769 you can lean into is just clearly saying, this 00:29:58.769 --> 00:30:02.349 is AI. I made this specifically with AI for you. 00:30:02.609 --> 00:30:04.930 Let me know what you think. People like something 00:30:04.930 --> 00:30:07.490 novel or something interesting. Just lean into 00:30:07.490 --> 00:30:10.670 it and add another piece of flavor when you're 00:30:10.670 --> 00:30:14.609 sending it in the text that calls out that it's 00:30:14.609 --> 00:30:17.269 AI or something. But then add something personal 00:30:17.269 --> 00:30:19.470 yourself in that text or something. There's a 00:30:19.470 --> 00:30:24.950 way that you can do this that stands out. And 00:30:24.950 --> 00:30:27.789 like you call it, like if you're like in a feed, 00:30:27.849 --> 00:30:29.690 right? It's like, I'll stop the scroll. It's 00:30:29.690 --> 00:30:31.269 like, I'm scrolling and it stops the scroll. 00:30:31.589 --> 00:30:33.769 Same thing. If I get an email and it's like, 00:30:33.769 --> 00:30:35.829 looks different. I'm going to like click on it 00:30:35.829 --> 00:30:37.730 and see what's up. Same thing on LinkedIn. If 00:30:37.730 --> 00:30:39.690 I'm in my messages and it looks different, I 00:30:39.690 --> 00:30:42.390 might click on it and see what it's about. So 00:30:42.390 --> 00:30:44.230 I think if you can find novel ways to do that, 00:30:44.289 --> 00:30:47.369 it's just going to improve your chances. Yeah. 00:30:47.430 --> 00:30:49.130 I think it creates quite an interesting arms 00:30:49.130 --> 00:30:52.170 race. I remember the first time I got a. like 00:30:52.170 --> 00:30:55.890 a wistier video that was just for me. And I watched 00:30:55.890 --> 00:30:58.190 it and I engaged with that company. They had 00:30:58.190 --> 00:30:59.750 a fairly interesting value. They've done the 00:30:59.750 --> 00:31:01.589 research on Biostrata. And I thought, actually, 00:31:01.650 --> 00:31:03.450 yeah, this person's put the effort in here. I'm 00:31:03.450 --> 00:31:05.609 going to engage in that. But it doesn't take 00:31:05.609 --> 00:31:07.450 very long for that to be overused and then you 00:31:07.450 --> 00:31:10.470 ignore that, right? One of the things I've toyed 00:31:10.470 --> 00:31:12.509 with, but I think I never did it because it just 00:31:12.509 --> 00:31:15.029 felt too risky, was like using Suno and creating 00:31:15.029 --> 00:31:17.769 a song about the person that I'm targeting and 00:31:17.769 --> 00:31:19.589 their brand and how we could work together for 00:31:19.589 --> 00:31:22.759 an amazing future. having it like a quite a funny 00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:25.400 like upbeat country or something like that um 00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:28.599 but then but why not but why not why wouldn't 00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:30.980 you do it i'm just curious why wouldn't i do 00:31:30.980 --> 00:31:33.460 it i don't know i didn't do a huge amount of 00:31:33.460 --> 00:31:35.180 prospecting anyway very lucky i had a lot of 00:31:35.180 --> 00:31:39.920 inbound traffic um and it was just about risk 00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:42.660 management for me it's like risk reward i didn't 00:31:42.660 --> 00:31:45.160 really need i mostly thought it was a cool idea 00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:48.740 rather than like a deep need in me like we need 00:31:48.740 --> 00:31:50.779 the business i've got to i've got to break through 00:31:50.779 --> 00:31:53.759 the noise this is how i'm going to do it challenge 00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:56.619 a little bit like what's the downside they respond 00:31:56.619 --> 00:32:00.720 to be like wow this song sucks like they're probably 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:03.119 not gonna i mean not gonna hold it against you 00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:05.079 as a company probably right and i think if you 00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:08.099 own it like hey you know we'd love to work together 00:32:08.099 --> 00:32:11.319 and i made this like really fun little ai song 00:32:11.319 --> 00:32:13.480 for you you might hate it but let me know what 00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:16.950 you think like that kind of message is uh I think 00:32:16.950 --> 00:32:20.109 no downside in that. And if the person honestly 00:32:20.109 --> 00:32:24.069 doesn't respond super negatively to it, then 00:32:24.069 --> 00:32:26.849 they suck as a person and you probably don't 00:32:26.849 --> 00:32:29.869 want to work with them anyway. Now I want you 00:32:29.869 --> 00:32:32.230 to go test this theory for me and then maybe 00:32:32.230 --> 00:32:33.869 it works really well and then it gets saturated 00:32:33.869 --> 00:32:36.509 and then you and no one else can do it anymore. 00:32:36.650 --> 00:32:38.250 And that's where the arms race comes in, I think. 00:32:38.549 --> 00:32:40.829 Yeah, but I would challenge that too and say 00:32:40.829 --> 00:32:43.680 like... Video messaging has been around for so 00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:47.759 long and nobody gets them. Nobody uses it. It 00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:52.359 is still like Greenfield, Blue Ocean. Nobody 00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:54.740 does it. And it's like one of the best ways that 00:32:54.740 --> 00:32:58.700 you can be personable to somebody. I think that 00:32:58.700 --> 00:33:02.049 you and I... live in a bubble of like we see 00:33:02.049 --> 00:33:03.849 this stuff and we're like probably people are 00:33:03.849 --> 00:33:06.250 going to do this and so if they do it if we do 00:33:06.250 --> 00:33:08.250 it then everybody's going to do it but nobody 00:33:08.250 --> 00:33:10.210 does it i don't think people catch on to this 00:33:10.210 --> 00:33:15.009 stuff i think that um it's very rare that if 00:33:15.009 --> 00:33:17.109 you come up with something kind of really interesting 00:33:17.109 --> 00:33:19.390 and novel to your point of sending like a song 00:33:19.390 --> 00:33:21.910 that's custom made for somebody i don't think 00:33:21.910 --> 00:33:25.930 very many people will do it and even if 10 people 00:33:25.930 --> 00:33:28.900 do it or 20 people do it It's not going to oversaturate, 00:33:28.900 --> 00:33:31.700 you know. I guess you're right. Why do you think 00:33:31.700 --> 00:33:34.779 that video and these other things that to you 00:33:34.779 --> 00:33:36.700 and I seem like they must be saturated by now, 00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:39.559 why are people not doing it? It takes work. You 00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:40.819 think that's when it comes down to it? That's 00:33:40.819 --> 00:33:43.460 the answer. Yeah, most people are lazy. I think 00:33:43.460 --> 00:33:46.220 that's the answer. Most people are lazy and they 00:33:46.220 --> 00:33:47.799 just won't put in the effort to actually do it. 00:33:48.430 --> 00:33:50.789 So I think it's really easy. It's really easy 00:33:50.789 --> 00:33:53.029 to have AI write text and load up an email and 00:33:53.029 --> 00:33:55.549 send it. It's a lot harder to connect with somebody 00:33:55.549 --> 00:33:58.950 on LinkedIn and then click this button that makes 00:33:58.950 --> 00:34:01.190 you feel very vulnerable that pops a screen up 00:34:01.190 --> 00:34:03.890 in front of you where you now have to like create 00:34:03.890 --> 00:34:06.450 a video and then send it to that person. So we 00:34:06.450 --> 00:34:08.269 can, in theory, we're going to get to test your 00:34:08.269 --> 00:34:10.550 hypothesis because if all of these tools made 00:34:10.550 --> 00:34:13.730 this almost click button easy, right? Like here's 00:34:13.730 --> 00:34:15.809 a prospect research, basically your whole clay 00:34:15.809 --> 00:34:18.679 work for you mentioned. but also right through 00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:21.539 to recording a video and in like an ai video 00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:25.039 and sending it um that should be click of the 00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:26.679 button and then we'll see if people will actually 00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:31.559 engage and do it again i don't know people are 00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:33.320 going to take the time to do it but yeah if they 00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:36.530 do great and if you do this send us like send 00:34:36.530 --> 00:34:38.369 us the results i'd love to see it but i just 00:34:38.369 --> 00:34:40.610 i still don't think enough people are going to 00:34:40.610 --> 00:34:42.409 spend the time to learn how to set this up in 00:34:42.409 --> 00:34:44.309 clay learn how to connect to different systems 00:34:44.309 --> 00:34:47.150 and so if you are one of those people you have 00:34:47.150 --> 00:34:50.610 a very distinct advantage and this is why i keep 00:34:50.610 --> 00:34:52.889 talking about on a regular basis is like this 00:34:52.889 --> 00:34:55.789 is an opportunity to completely revamp your skill 00:34:55.789 --> 00:34:59.869 set that has probably never happened in my lifetime 00:34:59.869 --> 00:35:02.230 other than maybe like the start of the internet 00:35:02.230 --> 00:35:04.590 right it's like like this hasn't really happened 00:35:04.590 --> 00:35:08.789 and so Yeah, I think it's a really interesting 00:35:08.789 --> 00:35:11.409 opportunity for people to rebuild their skillset, 00:35:11.489 --> 00:35:13.789 to really stand out. And then you can leverage 00:35:13.789 --> 00:35:17.030 that to get like pretty much any job you want 00:35:17.030 --> 00:35:20.329 if you become really good at it. So here we go 00:35:20.329 --> 00:35:24.289 then. Obviously, like everyone, Harris and I 00:35:24.289 --> 00:35:26.849 get a lot of LinkedIn messages and a lot of emails 00:35:26.849 --> 00:35:30.070 of people trying to sell us stuff. We will reply 00:35:30.070 --> 00:35:34.670 to you if you send us a song about us. I'm in. 00:35:35.019 --> 00:35:37.519 Dude, I would love that. Honestly, one way that 00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:38.760 people could do it, I'll tell you, here's the 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:42.199 playbook. Go take this. This will get posted, 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:44.820 I think, on YouTube, right? Yeah. Yeah, this 00:35:44.820 --> 00:35:47.980 will get on YouTube. So go and get the transcript 00:35:47.980 --> 00:35:52.059 for this video from YouTube. Then take that transcript, 00:35:52.340 --> 00:35:55.920 put it into any of these. What is it? Suno, I 00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:58.389 think, is the one, right? yeah you know how to 00:35:58.389 --> 00:36:00.349 write a have a write a script have it write a 00:36:00.349 --> 00:36:02.130 song or put it in chat you have to write the 00:36:02.130 --> 00:36:06.050 song then upload that into suno then in suno 00:36:06.050 --> 00:36:08.150 have it create the song and then send us the 00:36:08.150 --> 00:36:11.429 song about this podcast that would be that that's 00:36:11.429 --> 00:36:13.730 the that's the challenge for people yeah that 00:36:13.730 --> 00:36:15.389 would be cool all right i expect to see that 00:36:15.389 --> 00:36:19.460 now And if Suno has an API, again, you could 00:36:19.460 --> 00:36:22.480 do this in Clay for all of your prospects. In 00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:24.219 Clay, you'd just basically be able to create 00:36:24.219 --> 00:36:26.519 these custom songs. I actually kind of do this, 00:36:26.539 --> 00:36:28.280 so I might start sending some songs to people. 00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:33.099 I want to know how well that works, especially 00:36:33.099 --> 00:36:35.219 because maybe the arms race is not as real as 00:36:35.219 --> 00:36:37.579 I thought it was, and we don't have to stay ahead 00:36:37.579 --> 00:36:40.579 of people's attention and BS filters quite at 00:36:40.579 --> 00:36:45.539 the level I'd imagined. Another thing I was thinking 00:36:45.539 --> 00:36:48.219 when I was talking about clay, maybe we have 00:36:48.219 --> 00:36:50.199 to go and do this from Rafael Harrison, it can 00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:53.019 be our weekend project, is whether or not you 00:36:53.019 --> 00:36:56.139 could like vibe code something up that would 00:36:56.139 --> 00:36:58.760 achieve this type of outcome, right? Well, okay, 00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:00.460 wait, where are you going with this? Vibe coding 00:37:00.460 --> 00:37:03.480 the front end of like our idea here or vibe coding 00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:08.159 something from clay? I've meant the entire front 00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:10.949 and back end. where it probably uses like an 00:37:10.949 --> 00:37:14.250 air table database or whatever but can you vibe 00:37:14.250 --> 00:37:16.570 code and plug straight into clay because then 00:37:16.570 --> 00:37:20.769 it would be even easier right two okay well i'll 00:37:20.769 --> 00:37:22.769 take this in two ways because i've seen something 00:37:22.769 --> 00:37:24.809 really cool i've never done it because it doesn't 00:37:24.809 --> 00:37:27.190 really apply to me i don't think or i couldn't 00:37:27.190 --> 00:37:31.380 figure out how to apply it as of yet This guy, 00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:34.400 if you're familiar with Lovable, it is one of 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.139 these vibe coding platforms where basically you 00:37:36.139 --> 00:37:38.260 can program in natural language. You type in 00:37:38.260 --> 00:37:39.760 what you wanted to create, it will go create 00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:43.360 that application for you. So he used the Lovable 00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:47.840 API, used it in clay. So he took a company and 00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:50.719 then basically created a prop, like basically 00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:53.260 understood what is it that this company or a 00:37:53.260 --> 00:37:55.079 tool that would be really useful for this company. 00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:59.059 That created whatever, like the idea for the 00:37:59.059 --> 00:38:01.760 tool. Then that tool creates like, okay, there'll 00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:04.320 be a prompt for how I could build this tool that 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:06.360 could be used in a vibe coding platform that 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:09.739 generated the prompt. Then the prompt was sent 00:38:09.739 --> 00:38:12.500 to lovable to go and build it. And then it returned 00:38:12.500 --> 00:38:17.429 the deployed URL of that app. So literally. you 00:38:17.429 --> 00:38:20.670 can make custom apps for prospects. So like, 00:38:20.690 --> 00:38:22.469 if you're like a software development company 00:38:22.469 --> 00:38:25.250 or something, like imagine how, and I wanted 00:38:25.250 --> 00:38:28.449 to prospect into like 50 companies, I get a list 00:38:28.449 --> 00:38:30.409 of these 50 companies. I can go and just like 00:38:30.409 --> 00:38:34.010 create 50 MVPs of tools that are useful for them. 00:38:34.309 --> 00:38:35.690 And like, you're probably not going to send it 00:38:35.690 --> 00:38:37.449 right away from there. Like you go in and use 00:38:37.449 --> 00:38:39.289 it. And I just add a couple like tweaks here 00:38:39.289 --> 00:38:41.070 or there. And I've got something that I can send 00:38:41.070 --> 00:38:44.610 as like a really cool lead magnet for them. That's 00:38:44.610 --> 00:38:47.289 a cool idea. I think that's why people who really 00:38:47.289 --> 00:38:51.250 think creatively and come up with these things, 00:38:51.369 --> 00:38:53.349 they don't think, because the other thing is 00:38:53.349 --> 00:38:56.289 like, you could build that and maybe it breaks 00:38:56.289 --> 00:39:00.610 a lot, but in a year it won't. And this is how 00:39:00.610 --> 00:39:02.130 you have to think about AI, right? If you're 00:39:02.130 --> 00:39:04.510 constantly pushing at the capabilities of what 00:39:04.510 --> 00:39:06.809 these different tools, Lovable, Chachi, BT, Sora 00:39:06.809 --> 00:39:09.929 can do, but it's a bit clunky and broken, doesn't 00:39:09.929 --> 00:39:12.260 quite give you the output that you want. You 00:39:12.260 --> 00:39:13.820 have just built something that you'll be able 00:39:13.820 --> 00:39:15.840 to deploy in six months instead when you can 00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:19.019 swap the latest models in. Yeah, like if you 00:39:19.019 --> 00:39:21.179 had built on the original HeyGen, probably wouldn't 00:39:21.179 --> 00:39:23.019 have been very good to send to people. But now 00:39:23.019 --> 00:39:25.059 it's pretty darn good and now it integrates with 00:39:25.059 --> 00:39:27.760 SOAR too. So like you could leverage it for that 00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:30.820 even. So yeah, wild. Yeah, that would be cool. 00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:33.360 The other thing that you talked about was actually 00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:38.239 vibe coding in application. So the way that, 00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:41.940 so the short answer is yes. I am not an engineer 00:39:41.940 --> 00:39:46.280 at all. However, I have built probably like, 00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:48.159 I don't know, maybe like 10 different applications 00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:52.019 now for stuff that we use internally. So like 00:39:52.019 --> 00:39:54.000 there are certain processes that I think are 00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:56.659 better used where I could build a mini app and 00:39:56.659 --> 00:40:00.679 vibe code it using a replet. And then we use 00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:03.059 it internally for like certain automations and 00:40:03.059 --> 00:40:05.340 systems and processes for our team internally. 00:40:06.059 --> 00:40:07.980 But then also I built a few customer -facing 00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:10.260 ones. So we've got this insights tool where you 00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:13.820 plug in your company domain, and it'll generate 00:40:13.820 --> 00:40:18.239 this full report of your differentiators, your 00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:21.219 positioning. We'll pull a list of companies that 00:40:21.219 --> 00:40:23.420 you should target. We'll pull a list of people 00:40:23.420 --> 00:40:25.420 and their email addresses that you could go after. 00:40:25.539 --> 00:40:27.380 We'll write some prospecting messaging that you 00:40:27.380 --> 00:40:29.960 could take and start to tweak. We'll pull together 00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:32.019 discovery questions that you could start to ask 00:40:32.019 --> 00:40:34.059 in your sales calls. And it does all of this 00:40:34.059 --> 00:40:36.570 from simply your domain. Right. That's kind of 00:40:36.570 --> 00:40:38.309 like the lead magnet we built. Built somewhere 00:40:38.309 --> 00:40:41.969 around finding emails for people, built a quota 00:40:41.969 --> 00:40:43.889 calculator. So if you want to understand what 00:40:43.889 --> 00:40:46.070 you have to do to hit your quota, you just plug 00:40:46.070 --> 00:40:48.969 in a couple metrics into the calculator. It builds 00:40:48.969 --> 00:40:50.989 it for you. But it's like a really cool front 00:40:50.989 --> 00:40:55.190 -end UI app that I built in 45 minutes in Replit. 00:40:55.389 --> 00:40:58.349 So when you think about this from a marketing 00:40:58.349 --> 00:41:01.539 perspective... like what are the things that 00:41:01.539 --> 00:41:04.179 would make your prospect or your customers lives 00:41:04.179 --> 00:41:06.219 easier what are tools things that they could 00:41:06.219 --> 00:41:09.099 leverage build them and then give it to them 00:41:09.099 --> 00:41:11.179 and like that is going to be a much better lead 00:41:11.179 --> 00:41:14.460 magnet than the latest white paper or you know 00:41:14.460 --> 00:41:17.400 poster or whatever that every other company is 00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:20.480 doing i love that and i think the other thing 00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:23.119 that you could probably do once you start really 00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:26.559 expanding this out is because if you can automate 00:41:26.559 --> 00:41:30.159 this process in clay And you can start to do 00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:32.960 this at scale and see what tools resonate and 00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:35.480 what don't. Like you could send 10 very similar 00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:38.619 companies 10 different tools. Because you can 00:41:38.619 --> 00:41:40.539 just automate it. It still takes a day and you 00:41:40.539 --> 00:41:42.920 don't do most of the work. And see which tools 00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:46.219 resonate. I read a really interesting use case 00:41:46.219 --> 00:41:49.059 that I don't think we can do in our industry. 00:41:49.699 --> 00:41:52.860 Maybe we could actually. But the concept was 00:41:52.860 --> 00:41:58.239 spin up business ideas through JetGPT. or some 00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:02.119 other model then create ads for those business 00:42:02.119 --> 00:42:06.360 ideas and promote them on facebook meta for and 00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:09.639 just spend like ten dollars per idea and see 00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:11.699 which ones get the most engagement and that's 00:42:11.699 --> 00:42:15.099 what then guides you in terms of what products 00:42:15.099 --> 00:42:16.900 you should develop but like your market research 00:42:16.900 --> 00:42:19.159 becomes not asking what people want but actually 00:42:19.159 --> 00:42:21.599 just advertising to them like this thing exists 00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:25.219 and if they try and buy it yeah and then if they 00:42:25.219 --> 00:42:27.440 try buy it then you build it And of course, I 00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:30.340 think if you're doing that with software, well, 00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:34.139 the build capabilities are now very flexible, 00:42:34.179 --> 00:42:36.760 very fast. So you could probably spin up the 00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:40.599 software product in quite, you know, not much 00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:42.980 time, really. And non -technical people can do 00:42:42.980 --> 00:42:45.139 it, right? I think if you're a marketer, you 00:42:45.139 --> 00:42:47.039 should learn how to use these tools because then 00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:49.199 you don't need an engineer to do this stuff for 00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:51.860 you anymore. Yeah, a friend of mine... You can 00:42:51.860 --> 00:42:53.800 do it. In fact, you know this because Nick went 00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:56.619 on this. We went on Hack Week. Oh, yeah, yeah, 00:42:56.739 --> 00:42:58.940 yeah. I saw your post about it, and I'm like, 00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:01.559 Nick, go do this. Yeah, yeah. It was really cool, 00:43:01.699 --> 00:43:04.360 and I got a huge amount of value out of it. But 00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.380 a couple of months later, the single most valuable 00:43:07.380 --> 00:43:11.760 thing was carving some time out to get creative 00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:14.440 and play with. I was using Replit as well, but 00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:16.619 now I'm more using Lovable, but they're basically 00:43:16.619 --> 00:43:18.340 the same thing, aren't they, pretty much? Anyway, 00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:19.960 I say that, but I think it's probably still true 00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:24.300 at this point. To just play with stuff and try 00:43:24.300 --> 00:43:27.260 and build stuff for me. It's almost like for 00:43:27.260 --> 00:43:29.880 the right organizations with the right people, 00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:31.739 maybe you don't have to do this across your whole 00:43:31.739 --> 00:43:33.619 team. Maybe you have to figure out those people 00:43:33.619 --> 00:43:35.900 you mentioned earlier, Harrison, who are a bit 00:43:35.900 --> 00:43:37.679 nerdier, quite like the idea of playing with 00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:39.719 this stuff. It's trying to apply some sort of 00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:43.820 Google 20 % time. Like one day a week, you look 00:43:43.820 --> 00:43:46.639 at some of the work that you're doing and you 00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:49.199 try and think about what front end applications 00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:53.619 you could build using Lovable or whatever to 00:43:53.619 --> 00:43:56.420 help. um you do your you and your team do your 00:43:56.420 --> 00:43:58.659 work better or even more speculatively what cool 00:43:58.659 --> 00:44:01.320 stuff could we do now you've got this you'd use 00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:02.780 that one day a week to go and figure out what 00:44:02.780 --> 00:44:05.800 that cool stuff could be yes i think every company 00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:08.280 should do this i'll give you two examples of 00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:11.659 companies that have done this there is uh if 00:44:11.659 --> 00:44:14.519 you know monday .com monday yeah like there's 00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:18.329 like a project management tool. They had a complete 00:44:18.329 --> 00:44:20.869 whole week. So where some companies might do 00:44:20.869 --> 00:44:22.510 an offsite for like a training or something, 00:44:22.590 --> 00:44:24.590 they did a whole week, flew everybody in the 00:44:24.590 --> 00:44:27.230 same place. And they did basically an AI hackathon 00:44:27.230 --> 00:44:31.909 where everybody figured out and built like real 00:44:31.909 --> 00:44:35.329 AI tools that they could use in their day -to 00:44:35.329 --> 00:44:38.579 -day jobs. and like i think it does so many it 00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:40.340 does so many things one it just gets everybody 00:44:40.340 --> 00:44:42.760 talking about this stuff thinking about it using 00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:47.739 it and then um also like you have if you if you 00:44:47.739 --> 00:44:49.880 spend the time to do this they probably came 00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:52.440 out with like 10 to 20 different ai tools that 00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:54.199 are now going to make their like make them more 00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:56.699 efficient or more effective in their jobs and 00:44:56.699 --> 00:45:00.909 it's like i don't know how This was just never 00:45:00.909 --> 00:45:03.210 possible before. And so if you're not thinking 00:45:03.210 --> 00:45:06.250 in this way, it's just so hard for me to think 00:45:06.250 --> 00:45:08.030 about not thinking in this way, I guess, right? 00:45:08.110 --> 00:45:10.349 It's like, we do this stuff all day, every day. 00:45:11.389 --> 00:45:13.250 Luckily, we're a small team, we're able to do 00:45:13.250 --> 00:45:17.750 that kind of stuff. But yeah, just so much value 00:45:17.750 --> 00:45:20.690 that you can unlock. Yeah, I mean, there's a 00:45:20.690 --> 00:45:23.809 speculative element to it, right? It's one of 00:45:23.809 --> 00:45:26.809 the frustrating things about the current tools, 00:45:26.949 --> 00:45:28.550 although again, they're getting better all the 00:45:28.550 --> 00:45:32.590 time, is they break a lot like something that 00:45:32.590 --> 00:45:36.409 not every output i get is a 45 minute you know 00:45:36.409 --> 00:45:39.090 idea to execution everything works and one of 00:45:39.090 --> 00:45:40.570 the things i found really frustrating during 00:45:40.570 --> 00:45:45.369 the hat week was i think of a new feature so 00:45:45.369 --> 00:45:48.289 i'd ask replit to add the new feature to the 00:45:48.289 --> 00:45:49.869 platform i'd already built and it would break 00:45:49.869 --> 00:45:51.670 three of the old features because it's almost 00:45:51.670 --> 00:45:53.610 like it would forget that those features existed 00:45:53.610 --> 00:45:56.010 or duplicate a database that already existed 00:45:56.010 --> 00:45:58.500 once and now Which version of the database is 00:45:58.500 --> 00:46:00.679 being updated only fuels one feature and not 00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:03.780 the other. So, you know, I don't want to give 00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:06.440 the impression that you can go ask it to build 00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:08.239 you a tool, the tool will be perfect. It's exactly 00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:10.900 the same as using AI in any other context. You're 00:46:10.900 --> 00:46:12.559 going to have to have a conversation. Something 00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:14.320 that you think is going to take 10 minutes is 00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:16.480 probably going to take three hours and be quite 00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:18.480 frustrating along the way. But if you stick at 00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:20.619 it, you will get something really cool that you 00:46:20.619 --> 00:46:23.679 never could have done otherwise. So you need 00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:26.309 that mindset. And I think sometimes... Yeah, 00:46:26.349 --> 00:46:28.449 you need that patience and you need, I think 00:46:28.449 --> 00:46:30.070 you need to have genuine interest in trying to 00:46:30.070 --> 00:46:32.130 build something cool. You probably need to be 00:46:32.130 --> 00:46:33.849 a bit of a builder, really. Otherwise, you're 00:46:33.849 --> 00:46:36.030 probably not going to stick in it. But I can 00:46:36.030 --> 00:46:37.789 see as a business as well that you might be like, 00:46:37.889 --> 00:46:42.190 so I need to send someone off one day a week. 00:46:42.210 --> 00:46:43.630 They're going to play with this stuff, but there 00:46:43.630 --> 00:46:45.889 might not be any outputs because maybe it doesn't 00:46:45.889 --> 00:46:48.309 work. And not all businesses are going to be 00:46:48.309 --> 00:46:49.809 open to that. Not all businesses are going to 00:46:49.809 --> 00:46:51.769 have the flex in their business model to do it. 00:46:51.909 --> 00:46:54.500 But I think if you can, you should, right? yeah 00:46:54.500 --> 00:46:59.139 I definitely agree um the other company I was 00:46:59.139 --> 00:47:02.940 referencing that does this um they have a Friday 00:47:02.940 --> 00:47:06.480 afternoon where the team five codes so it's sort 00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:09.860 of like this optional vibe coding session on 00:47:09.860 --> 00:47:12.820 Friday afternoons so it's like it's a Friday 00:47:12.820 --> 00:47:15.920 afternoon half the people are probably like not 00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:18.039 working at your company anyway and depending 00:47:18.039 --> 00:47:21.059 on how big the company is so like Give them something 00:47:21.059 --> 00:47:23.460 fun to do and have some outputs from it or something. 00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:29.780 I also just think it's very short -sighted to 00:47:29.780 --> 00:47:33.000 probably not be thinking about how your team 00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:34.840 or company could leverage AI more effectively. 00:47:35.659 --> 00:47:38.380 So while there's probably companies out there 00:47:38.380 --> 00:47:41.019 that will say not to use AI in these types of 00:47:41.019 --> 00:47:45.139 ways, I personally think it's short -sighted. 00:47:46.259 --> 00:47:48.500 Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think the other thing 00:47:48.500 --> 00:47:51.500 is it's very easy to say we're going to bring 00:47:51.500 --> 00:47:55.059 AI into how we work, you know, as a senior leader, 00:47:55.159 --> 00:47:57.719 maybe a CEO in the executive team, maybe the 00:47:57.719 --> 00:47:59.360 board are like, what are you doing with AI? And 00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:01.599 you're like, we're going to do some stuff. But 00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:05.019 it's like all bets. Like, it's a bet. You have 00:48:05.019 --> 00:48:07.179 to invest in it. Some stuff's not going to work. 00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:09.989 You have to be patient. you can't throw it out 00:48:09.989 --> 00:48:12.269 like after like two weeks of trying it because 00:48:12.269 --> 00:48:13.590 you didn't quite get what you needed you have 00:48:13.590 --> 00:48:15.130 to figure out what's not working and improve 00:48:15.130 --> 00:48:18.269 it and all that stuff and i don't think you can 00:48:18.269 --> 00:48:20.710 try and tie a metric to this and i think that's 00:48:20.710 --> 00:48:23.449 the thing that people don't like a lot of execs 00:48:23.449 --> 00:48:24.989 or a lot of leadership don't understand it's 00:48:24.989 --> 00:48:28.349 like you can do things that don't always have 00:48:28.349 --> 00:48:33.609 an roi and a metric tied to them like i i This 00:48:33.609 --> 00:48:35.969 is one of the things I love most about what I'm 00:48:35.969 --> 00:48:38.469 doing now, kind of my own company, is that I 00:48:38.469 --> 00:48:41.090 don't have to, if I think an idea is cool, I'm 00:48:41.090 --> 00:48:43.769 just going to do it. I don't have to think about 00:48:43.769 --> 00:48:46.010 what's the ROI for this? What's the metric? What 00:48:46.010 --> 00:48:49.070 is the whatever? I'm going to go do it, see if 00:48:49.070 --> 00:48:51.230 it works. And if it works, awesome. And I'll 00:48:51.230 --> 00:48:53.409 use qualitative feedback just to sometimes determine 00:48:53.409 --> 00:48:57.170 if it works, right? And so I think there's oftentimes... 00:48:57.690 --> 00:49:00.170 when organizations get larger and everything 00:49:00.170 --> 00:49:02.369 has to be metric driven and everything has to 00:49:02.369 --> 00:49:04.809 have a metric and a number tied to it it makes 00:49:04.809 --> 00:49:08.630 it really hard to do fun interesting things what's 00:49:08.630 --> 00:49:11.090 that saying it's not everything that counts can 00:49:11.090 --> 00:49:14.010 be measured or something everything that measured 00:49:14.010 --> 00:49:16.269 will get done or something like that but then 00:49:16.269 --> 00:49:18.250 like but then there's like the flip side which 00:49:18.250 --> 00:49:19.630 is kind of closer i think for what you're saying 00:49:19.630 --> 00:49:22.769 which is like if you can't measure it yeah i 00:49:22.769 --> 00:49:25.329 don't know what the actual one is but yeah but 00:49:25.329 --> 00:49:27.510 obviously like the sentiment is Just because 00:49:27.510 --> 00:49:29.809 you can't set clear measurables around it doesn't 00:49:29.809 --> 00:49:31.429 mean it's not important. And I think one of those 00:49:31.429 --> 00:49:33.650 things that happens, there's a couple of things 00:49:33.650 --> 00:49:35.929 that are interesting. What you learn along the 00:49:35.929 --> 00:49:38.570 way is intangibly valuable, but still can be 00:49:38.570 --> 00:49:41.789 very valuable. Plus, I think the nature of this 00:49:41.789 --> 00:49:44.349 is quite iterative. And what you get at the end 00:49:44.349 --> 00:49:46.750 might not be what you envisaged at the beginning, 00:49:46.809 --> 00:49:49.829 but it's actually 10x better than what you envisaged. 00:49:49.869 --> 00:49:52.570 Because by going through the process, you come 00:49:52.570 --> 00:49:54.269 up against a problem and you have a new idea. 00:49:54.329 --> 00:49:56.780 So you try a new thing. So it's one of those 00:49:56.780 --> 00:50:00.300 very few places where the old adage, start with 00:50:00.300 --> 00:50:02.480 the end in mind, probably doesn't help you out 00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:04.280 that much because you're trying to be creative 00:50:04.280 --> 00:50:06.679 and solve problems in a creative way. And I think 00:50:06.679 --> 00:50:09.019 as long as you have an idea directionally of 00:50:09.019 --> 00:50:11.719 where you're trying to go, I really wish we could 00:50:11.719 --> 00:50:15.460 make our content production process better. Then, 00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:17.219 well, what does that mean? Then you can start 00:50:17.219 --> 00:50:19.079 exploring it and trying different stuff. And 00:50:19.079 --> 00:50:21.440 maybe that's the best way to think about it. 00:50:22.099 --> 00:50:24.610 Yeah, I love that. It's like if you don't play 00:50:24.610 --> 00:50:26.889 with it, you can't figure it out. This is it. 00:50:28.289 --> 00:50:30.050 Right, so a couple of other questions. Have a 00:50:30.050 --> 00:50:31.409 look at what we've got on here on our little 00:50:31.409 --> 00:50:36.949 list. You've talked a bit about clay. Are there 00:50:36.949 --> 00:50:39.449 any other tools that you rely on day in, day 00:50:39.449 --> 00:50:44.150 out when using AI? Well, I think clay is more 00:50:44.150 --> 00:50:46.429 of like the orchestrator of a lot of these things. 00:50:47.110 --> 00:50:52.480 So obviously, like Claude. ChatGPT are core elements 00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:57.960 as well. There are Canva, if we're thinking about 00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:00.480 designing things, Canva is really cool for stuff 00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:04.219 like that. From a messaging perspective, there's 00:51:04.219 --> 00:51:06.099 a really cool company out there called Octave, 00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:09.320 which is where you can create these hubs around 00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:11.480 messaging and create these different messaging 00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:15.679 agents, which is really cool. Airtable is doing 00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:17.500 some cool stuff. Actually, a lot of these project 00:51:17.500 --> 00:51:19.039 management tools are doing some really cool stuff 00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:21.809 with AI. HubSpot's put some really cool stuff 00:51:21.809 --> 00:51:27.070 out with AI. Other tools, I mean, like HeyGen 00:51:27.070 --> 00:51:33.550 obviously is cool. Cursor, that's probably too 00:51:33.550 --> 00:51:35.670 advanced for a lot of people here, but like Cursor 00:51:35.670 --> 00:51:37.670 is a really cool way where you can, it's like 00:51:37.670 --> 00:51:40.610 the advanced version of Replit or Lovable, where 00:51:40.610 --> 00:51:42.210 it's a little bit more engineering heavy, but 00:51:42.210 --> 00:51:43.789 you can do some really awesome stuff with it. 00:51:44.889 --> 00:51:47.389 Yeah, and then the Replits, the Lovables, live 00:51:47.389 --> 00:51:50.239 voting apps. And I'm sure I'm missing something. 00:51:51.159 --> 00:51:53.880 There are loads of different stuff. Oh, Super 00:51:53.880 --> 00:51:55.860 Whisper. Everybody needs to get Super Whisper. 00:51:56.340 --> 00:51:59.539 It's a tool you use to transcribe, but it's a 00:51:59.539 --> 00:52:02.199 different one. So it's like voice to text. It's 00:52:02.199 --> 00:52:04.920 incredible. I use it all the time. I don't write 00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:08.800 prompts to AI anymore. I brain dump speaking 00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:12.059 to it. And it goes so much faster. And it's way 00:52:12.059 --> 00:52:13.980 more effective than trying to type everything. 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:19.139 And yeah, it's a really good. uh voice to text 00:52:19.139 --> 00:52:22.679 tool yeah typing is where you we've talked about 00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:24.699 this before typing's been dead for a long time 00:52:24.699 --> 00:52:28.719 to me and um i've even got a local large language 00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:32.219 model on my phone now where my keyboard has a 00:52:32.219 --> 00:52:35.179 built -in transcription model but it's on device 00:52:35.179 --> 00:52:37.539 so i you know because a lot of things you might 00:52:37.539 --> 00:52:40.360 speak type on your keyboard you don't want it 00:52:40.360 --> 00:52:43.000 to come off your phone right um but that's pretty 00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:46.219 fast considering it's running on You know, Samsung, 00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:49.579 it's 23 or something. Um, the other thing is 00:52:49.579 --> 00:52:54.139 faster. It'd be on an iPhone. Probably slower 00:52:54.139 --> 00:52:57.800 these days. AI is not Apple's strong suit so 00:52:57.800 --> 00:53:01.019 far. We'll see if they improve over time. That's 00:53:01.019 --> 00:53:03.559 very true. I'm recording this on a Mac, so I'll 00:53:03.559 --> 00:53:06.119 just navigate to where the best platform is for 00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:07.760 the thing I'm trying to do at the time. There 00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:10.519 you go. The thing I really love, I think this 00:53:10.519 --> 00:53:12.239 might be boring for podcast listeners because 00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:14.079 I might have said this last week, but I'm using 00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:15.880 a tool called VoiceSync at the moment, and you 00:53:15.880 --> 00:53:19.659 can choose what model you use, and I'm using 00:53:19.659 --> 00:53:24.469 NVIDIA's new... like super fine -tuned tiny voice 00:53:24.469 --> 00:53:28.090 model and if even if i speak a paragraph it appears 00:53:28.090 --> 00:53:32.909 instantly but cool um and that that i really 00:53:32.909 --> 00:53:35.070 didn't think that latency was going to be that 00:53:35.070 --> 00:53:38.349 important to me but it really is like if i use 00:53:38.349 --> 00:53:41.050 a better model and i have to wait a second or 00:53:41.050 --> 00:53:43.710 two to get it appear on the screen i'd rather 00:53:43.710 --> 00:53:48.429 have instant transcription and fix one or two 00:53:48.429 --> 00:53:50.719 words Because they can move that much faster. 00:53:50.820 --> 00:53:52.900 It's really unbelievable. Yeah, that's really 00:53:52.900 --> 00:53:57.840 cool. I like it. Tell me, Harrison, about an 00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:01.099 AI workflow or tool or something that you thought 00:54:01.099 --> 00:54:03.940 would be really cool and work really well. And 00:54:03.940 --> 00:54:06.619 then it just didn't. And what did you learn? 00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:14.539 I tried to create a like super app myself. So 00:54:14.539 --> 00:54:16.860 I tried to build, I mean, this is still in progress. 00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:19.699 It still could come out one day. um where essentially 00:54:19.699 --> 00:54:22.679 it would be like the only app that we would need 00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:25.579 to run our whole agency so everything that we 00:54:25.579 --> 00:54:27.139 would do and so i was trying to find the whole 00:54:27.139 --> 00:54:29.079 thing building all of these different complex 00:54:29.079 --> 00:54:33.179 workflows working with databases and um it proved 00:54:33.179 --> 00:54:35.659 to be very hard as a non -technical person to 00:54:35.659 --> 00:54:38.599 work through like the slog of bugs and different 00:54:38.599 --> 00:54:41.840 challenges that would come up and so what i have 00:54:41.840 --> 00:54:45.519 like now deferred to is like simple small apps 00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:48.400 that solve very specific problems and then can 00:54:48.400 --> 00:54:50.500 make it in an hour or two, and then it's live. 00:54:50.659 --> 00:54:53.659 People can use it. And it's a lot easier than 00:54:53.659 --> 00:54:56.880 trying to build some gigantic piece of software 00:54:56.880 --> 00:55:00.260 that I don't have the technical expertise to 00:55:00.260 --> 00:55:03.679 update and maintain on a regular basis and just 00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:06.760 get it constantly working. So when you think 00:55:06.760 --> 00:55:08.699 about, this is kind of where I come back to this 00:55:08.699 --> 00:55:11.400 idea for people trying to get started with AI. 00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:15.960 is come up with something small simple easy with 00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:19.099 like defined outcomes that you can build and 00:55:19.099 --> 00:55:22.019 use right away and that will be like a nice win 00:55:22.019 --> 00:55:24.579 and like think about those things before you 00:55:24.579 --> 00:55:28.219 try and build something complex yeah that's that's 00:55:28.219 --> 00:55:30.380 a great story i've experienced that as well i 00:55:30.380 --> 00:55:32.099 got a couple of questions for you on that the 00:55:32.099 --> 00:55:34.739 first thing i just wanted to say though was and 00:55:34.739 --> 00:55:36.099 it's going to contradict what we said earlier 00:55:36.099 --> 00:55:38.679 so hopefully it still makes sense but because 00:55:38.679 --> 00:55:41.710 when i'm working with lovable or replit If I 00:55:41.710 --> 00:55:44.110 have an idea and add another feature, it breaks 00:55:44.110 --> 00:55:46.630 an old feature. One of the things I learned is 00:55:46.630 --> 00:55:49.110 sometimes it's just better to start again with 00:55:49.110 --> 00:55:51.789 a longer prompt that clearly outlines all the 00:55:51.789 --> 00:55:54.789 features you want the final product to have so 00:55:54.789 --> 00:55:57.769 that it builds them all in one go. Because what 00:55:57.769 --> 00:56:00.070 it's been like for me is if it's like dumps of 00:56:00.070 --> 00:56:03.630 like ice cream one on top of the other, like 00:56:03.630 --> 00:56:05.690 the whole thing is really flimsy and melts really 00:56:05.690 --> 00:56:08.469 easily. Yeah, yeah. Like I need to decide what 00:56:08.469 --> 00:56:11.250 that. everything is give it to the tool in one 00:56:11.250 --> 00:56:13.869 go and get a thing out but my question for you 00:56:13.869 --> 00:56:17.750 is have you had any experience like chaining 00:56:17.750 --> 00:56:21.130 your micro tools like can one tool use another 00:56:21.130 --> 00:56:26.239 tool or does that work yes You can. And the way 00:56:26.239 --> 00:56:29.099 you do that is you would tell the tool to create 00:56:29.099 --> 00:56:32.340 a set of public API keys. Again, kind of coming 00:56:32.340 --> 00:56:35.699 back to APIs. So you create a tool that then 00:56:35.699 --> 00:56:38.559 has public API keys that can run certain functions 00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:42.099 in that tool. And then one tool can then send 00:56:42.099 --> 00:56:46.019 API requests to the other tool to then execute 00:56:46.019 --> 00:56:48.360 a function and return it back to that initial 00:56:48.360 --> 00:56:53.190 tool. So an example is... Let's say I wanted 00:56:53.190 --> 00:56:55.610 to build a database of all the leads that we 00:56:55.610 --> 00:56:58.329 might want to target. Well, I can build this 00:56:58.329 --> 00:57:00.309 database. I can enable this database to have 00:57:00.309 --> 00:57:04.190 specific API calls that I might want to enrich 00:57:04.190 --> 00:57:06.550 a lead, to go and get specific fields from a 00:57:06.550 --> 00:57:09.769 particular lead. Then in another app, I might 00:57:09.769 --> 00:57:12.349 have something where I want to, if I plug in 00:57:12.349 --> 00:57:15.349 a person's name and their company, I want it 00:57:15.349 --> 00:57:18.780 to go check this database to see if We have the 00:57:18.780 --> 00:57:20.820 email already for them. And it could easily go 00:57:20.820 --> 00:57:23.320 and do that by simply having like these API calls 00:57:23.320 --> 00:57:26.519 set up. Or in the example of like that insights 00:57:26.519 --> 00:57:29.239 tool I mentioned is I leveraged probably like 00:57:29.239 --> 00:57:32.960 seven different APIs in that tool to then get 00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:34.960 all of the data that we want to show up in that 00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:38.019 tool itself. Yeah, there's definitely a systems 00:57:38.019 --> 00:57:40.039 architecture skill to this in terms of being 00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:42.260 able to break a process down into its constituent 00:57:42.260 --> 00:57:45.679 steps, thinking about what information needs 00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:48.500 to come from where. how it needs to be transformed 00:57:48.500 --> 00:57:51.920 or used step to step i wish it was a strength 00:57:51.920 --> 00:57:53.719 of mine because i really feel like i could build 00:57:53.719 --> 00:57:56.280 better things and more clearly articulate to 00:57:56.280 --> 00:57:59.400 the ai what i want and maybe i can take my fuzzy 00:57:59.400 --> 00:58:01.139 ideas and turn them into system architecture 00:58:01.139 --> 00:58:04.219 it does and that was going to recommend so you 00:58:04.219 --> 00:58:06.260 mentioned at the beginning when you're talking 00:58:06.260 --> 00:58:08.519 about like how do you build these like prompts 00:58:08.519 --> 00:58:10.820 to get all the features built one thing that 00:58:10.820 --> 00:58:14.360 you can do is you can use voice to text and brain 00:58:14.360 --> 00:58:18.260 dump your idea into a chat GPT, put it on thinking 00:58:18.260 --> 00:58:20.639 mode and say, build me a product requirements 00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:23.980 document for this product. And then it will go 00:58:23.980 --> 00:58:25.400 through and think through all the architecture 00:58:25.400 --> 00:58:27.219 stuff and think through all of the different 00:58:27.219 --> 00:58:29.739 features and user flows. And then you can edit 00:58:29.739 --> 00:58:34.619 it more. And then you give that prompt to replant 00:58:34.619 --> 00:58:37.500 and say, build this. Thanks. And then it will 00:58:37.500 --> 00:58:39.920 go and build that prompt and then build the product. 00:58:41.289 --> 00:58:43.530 And you still have to debug along the way, but 00:58:43.530 --> 00:58:45.710 you're creating much better. You're using it 00:58:45.710 --> 00:58:48.710 as like a meta prompt. That's my Saturday and 00:58:48.710 --> 00:58:52.650 Sunday sorted, Harrison. As we sort of drift 00:58:52.650 --> 00:58:54.429 towards the end of our conversation here, a couple 00:58:54.429 --> 00:58:57.429 of questions more about the future. So just for 00:58:57.429 --> 00:59:00.269 you, looking ahead sort of over the next 12 months, 00:59:00.590 --> 00:59:03.250 what do you think is overhyped at the moment 00:59:03.250 --> 00:59:06.789 in terms of its impact on your role? And conversely, 00:59:06.789 --> 00:59:08.289 what do you think is actually going to quietly 00:59:08.289 --> 00:59:12.829 change how... sales pros marketers do their work 00:59:12.829 --> 00:59:16.110 take the second one first um the second one i 00:59:16.110 --> 00:59:22.250 think that uh sdrs and prospecting is going to 00:59:22.250 --> 00:59:26.150 become almost obsolete and be handled by a singular 00:59:26.150 --> 00:59:29.190 human being that is incredible at using all of 00:59:29.190 --> 00:59:31.369 these different tools and systems so somebody 00:59:31.369 --> 00:59:33.849 who can basically become like an architect of 00:59:33.849 --> 00:59:37.139 your like go -to -market processes so they can 00:59:37.139 --> 00:59:39.739 set up systems to listen for different signals 00:59:39.739 --> 00:59:43.420 news hiring promotions publications that come 00:59:43.420 --> 00:59:45.219 out all of that type of stuff they listen for 00:59:45.219 --> 00:59:48.239 it comes into a tool like clay things get filtered 00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:51.360 messaging gets drafted messaging gets sent inbound 00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:54.679 leads come into your system there's literally 00:59:54.679 --> 00:59:57.800 no excuse anymore to not follow up on leads right 00:59:57.800 --> 00:59:59.179 i think one of the questions you're going to 00:59:59.179 --> 01:00:00.980 ask is about lead scoring i think league swing 01:00:00.980 --> 01:00:04.440 is a bunch of bogus and like follow up with everybody. 01:00:04.659 --> 01:00:06.380 There's no excuse to not follow up with anybody. 01:00:06.679 --> 01:00:09.119 There was always never an excuse, but salespeople 01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:10.880 had time that they had to spend on this stuff. 01:00:11.039 --> 01:00:14.099 So as marketers, automate that process. Build 01:00:14.099 --> 01:00:16.780 and write personalized custom one -to -one messages 01:00:16.780 --> 01:00:18.940 to every single lead that get followed up with 01:00:18.940 --> 01:00:21.440 within five minutes. Guaranteed, you will convert 01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:25.500 infinitely more people into meetings, into opportunities. 01:00:26.239 --> 01:00:29.380 I think these things are just going to be all 01:00:29.380 --> 01:00:31.199 centralized around a person who's really good 01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:35.070 at this stuff. And what that's going to do is 01:00:35.070 --> 01:00:37.809 free up the sales reps to focus on their top 01:00:37.809 --> 01:00:40.349 tier accounts, right? Where you still want that 01:00:40.349 --> 01:00:42.349 human element, right? So there's like this other 01:00:42.349 --> 01:00:44.690 component, which you think of, how do I prioritize 01:00:44.690 --> 01:00:47.329 all of the accounts in my territory? How do I 01:00:47.329 --> 01:00:49.909 prioritize everything within our total addressable 01:00:49.909 --> 01:00:52.409 market? With tools like Clay and these other 01:00:52.409 --> 01:00:54.789 data sources out there, you can now literally 01:00:54.789 --> 01:00:57.190 pull a list of every single company, every single 01:00:57.190 --> 01:00:59.429 person in your total addressable market. You 01:00:59.429 --> 01:01:01.860 can score them, you can rank them. pass some 01:01:01.860 --> 01:01:05.199 off to sales you own these we take this whole 01:01:05.199 --> 01:01:08.059 long tail sales is now focused and they're held 01:01:08.059 --> 01:01:10.380 accountable to everything going on at those top 01:01:10.380 --> 01:01:12.440 accounts so those top you know sorts of people 01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:15.219 that they're going after and then this like long 01:01:15.219 --> 01:01:17.659 tail gets bubbled up to sales when they're ready 01:01:17.659 --> 01:01:20.679 and so i think like architecting these systems 01:01:20.679 --> 01:01:24.179 in a way is like very much the now and future 01:01:24.179 --> 01:01:29.070 that companies should be moving towards And I 01:01:29.070 --> 01:01:30.389 just gave a couple of examples of workflows, 01:01:30.590 --> 01:01:31.989 but like there's probably infinitely more that 01:01:31.989 --> 01:01:34.190 I'm just, you know, we probably don't have time 01:01:34.190 --> 01:01:36.550 to talk through. Yeah. I love the use of the 01:01:36.550 --> 01:01:38.949 word conductor. Like sometimes people ask me, 01:01:39.010 --> 01:01:41.630 especially people earlier in their career, like 01:01:41.630 --> 01:01:44.110 how should I respond to all these things that 01:01:44.110 --> 01:01:46.010 are going on in AI? And there's a lot of advice 01:01:46.010 --> 01:01:48.289 out there and a lot of it's really good in terms 01:01:48.289 --> 01:01:51.510 of stay up to date on what, you know, different 01:01:51.510 --> 01:01:54.670 tools can do and where AI is headed. Become an 01:01:54.670 --> 01:01:57.369 AI native and be prepared to play with all these 01:01:57.369 --> 01:01:58.989 tools exactly like we've talked about today. 01:01:59.150 --> 01:02:01.670 But one of the roles I do think is going to become 01:02:01.670 --> 01:02:05.630 critical in organizations is the conductor. The 01:02:05.630 --> 01:02:09.630 one who is able to leverage these tools to deliver 01:02:09.630 --> 01:02:13.090 different tasks, bring the outputs together to 01:02:13.090 --> 01:02:16.630 generate meaningful work and outcomes and troubleshoot 01:02:16.630 --> 01:02:18.670 and debug and improve them when they break, which 01:02:18.670 --> 01:02:22.260 I suspect they will break a lot. which is probably 01:02:22.260 --> 01:02:25.679 going to be quite a weird hybrid of subject matter 01:02:25.679 --> 01:02:29.000 expertise in the thing, like knowing what good 01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:32.119 prospecting looks like and knowing how you should 01:02:32.119 --> 01:02:35.300 combine all of these things, but also a technical 01:02:35.300 --> 01:02:38.340 capability that is associated with optimizing 01:02:38.340 --> 01:02:40.880 and improving the tools, stress testing the tools, 01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:43.519 fixing them when they break. And so that's probably, 01:02:43.579 --> 01:02:45.199 I think, where people are going to end up spending 01:02:45.199 --> 01:02:47.860 a lot of their time to train into the roles of 01:02:47.860 --> 01:02:53.079 tomorrow. I agree. I agree. Where do you think 01:02:53.079 --> 01:02:55.340 it's going to be overhyped? Why is everybody 01:02:55.340 --> 01:02:57.320 talking about this amazing right now that's going 01:02:57.320 --> 01:03:01.019 to take longer than everybody thinks? I don't 01:03:01.019 --> 01:03:04.639 really personally believe that we're going to 01:03:04.639 --> 01:03:08.659 get to this AGI type of thing anytime soon, where 01:03:08.659 --> 01:03:11.679 it's this super intelligence that's going to 01:03:11.679 --> 01:03:14.639 be able to be good at very specific things. I 01:03:14.639 --> 01:03:17.940 think we're going to have... the models will 01:03:17.940 --> 01:03:19.920 be great but they're always going to need to 01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:22.300 be fine -tuned for a period of time and so like 01:03:22.300 --> 01:03:24.099 there's all this like hype and talk about like 01:03:24.099 --> 01:03:26.300 we're going to hit AGI super intelligence is 01:03:26.300 --> 01:03:29.780 on the way and it's like baby but like in reality 01:03:29.780 --> 01:03:31.880 it's probably going to show up at point solutions 01:03:31.880 --> 01:03:34.239 and very specific workflows where that expertise 01:03:34.239 --> 01:03:37.679 comes in where you have that like level of um 01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:40.380 like the value actually is going to come from 01:03:40.380 --> 01:03:45.340 the specificity not the like PhD level GPT -5. 01:03:45.960 --> 01:03:48.579 Like, it's going to be in the, like, 27 -page 01:03:48.579 --> 01:03:51.440 document that you have where you outline exactly 01:03:51.440 --> 01:03:55.639 what to do in each scenario. And I think that 01:03:55.639 --> 01:03:58.840 that's still going to be the case. So we'll still 01:03:58.840 --> 01:04:01.280 need a lot of humans to manage and handle that 01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:05.860 stuff. Yeah, it still feels incredibly fragmented. 01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:07.599 Like, even the fact that we're talking about 01:04:07.599 --> 01:04:10.019 creating micro tools that we then have to find 01:04:10.019 --> 01:04:11.739 a clever way to make them play well together, 01:04:11.880 --> 01:04:13.239 and then most of the time they're still going 01:04:13.239 --> 01:04:17.170 to break. Yeah. That's annoying for you and I, 01:04:17.269 --> 01:04:19.989 when we spend a lot of time and are willing to 01:04:19.989 --> 01:04:23.150 invest a lot of time in playing with them. For 01:04:23.150 --> 01:04:26.070 your average marketer or salesperson and a team 01:04:26.070 --> 01:04:28.849 that may not have that time or interest and they 01:04:28.849 --> 01:04:31.130 just need it to work, it feels like we're still 01:04:31.130 --> 01:04:33.429 quite a long way away from that. So it's quite 01:04:33.429 --> 01:04:35.389 a weird time from that perspective. But then 01:04:35.389 --> 01:04:38.929 the speed that things are moving at is kind of 01:04:38.929 --> 01:04:40.690 hard to quantify. And I was listening to a podcast 01:04:40.690 --> 01:04:44.139 yesterday, Sam Morton was on the... Is it A16Z? 01:04:44.260 --> 01:04:45.980 I think that's what the investment firms call 01:04:45.980 --> 01:04:49.360 Marc Andreessen. And it was the first time I'd 01:04:49.360 --> 01:04:52.219 ever heard or the first time in recent times 01:04:52.219 --> 01:04:55.760 that I've heard someone, a senior person at an 01:04:55.760 --> 01:05:00.079 AI company or lab say, what we are seeing internally 01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:02.780 is one to two years ahead of what's in the market. 01:05:02.960 --> 01:05:06.219 Because basically it was justifying why they're 01:05:06.219 --> 01:05:08.840 making all these bets and spending all this money. 01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:12.380 in a sort of backwards way he said you know you 01:05:12.380 --> 01:05:15.940 wouldn't invest that money if you didn't see 01:05:15.940 --> 01:05:19.639 what was coming sure yeah um whereas i think 01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:21.559 that sounds like a hype message to me though 01:05:21.559 --> 01:05:24.460 i mean he's probably true i'm sure it's probably 01:05:24.460 --> 01:05:26.019 true but like he's probably out there marketing 01:05:26.019 --> 01:05:28.559 at the same time that he says that always and 01:05:28.559 --> 01:05:30.880 this is so hard now to know what you can trust 01:05:30.880 --> 01:05:34.800 probably nothing um Especially now that his avatar 01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:36.920 is on Sora 2 and there's all these different 01:05:36.920 --> 01:05:40.219 videos being made of him. That's so funny. That's 01:05:40.219 --> 01:05:42.699 quite cool. That's quite brave of him to say, 01:05:42.820 --> 01:05:44.820 I'm going to stick my neck out. I'm going to 01:05:44.820 --> 01:05:46.780 be the first one that makes their avatar available. 01:05:47.460 --> 01:05:53.579 Yeah. When it comes to AI, what's the thing that 01:05:53.579 --> 01:05:57.039 you're most excited about? Yeah, I don't actually 01:05:57.039 --> 01:06:00.739 know. I'm already excited. I am like, this is... 01:06:00.920 --> 01:06:02.860 Like this is all like fun. Like everything is 01:06:02.860 --> 01:06:05.500 enjoyable. Like it's fun. And I think that's 01:06:05.500 --> 01:06:07.059 the thing that excites me is like, how is this 01:06:07.059 --> 01:06:08.860 going to become more fun, more entertaining, 01:06:09.000 --> 01:06:11.079 where we can tinker more, we can build more things. 01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:13.780 Like there's less limitations on what is possible. 01:06:14.079 --> 01:06:16.679 I think that's like a continuation of where we're 01:06:16.679 --> 01:06:19.260 at today. That's kind of where I'm at. It's fun. 01:06:19.380 --> 01:06:21.679 It's a fun time to be being able to play with 01:06:21.679 --> 01:06:24.900 all of this stuff. I appreciate that. So last 01:06:24.900 --> 01:06:27.889 question. What have we not talked about today 01:06:27.889 --> 01:06:29.909 that you think would have been cool to talk about? 01:06:29.989 --> 01:06:32.969 Is there anything still on your mind? We talked 01:06:32.969 --> 01:06:39.929 about a lot of stuff. Not really. I mean, I think 01:06:39.929 --> 01:06:41.289 we talked about a lot of things. I mean, maybe 01:06:41.289 --> 01:06:43.130 the only thing I would say is like, if you want 01:06:43.130 --> 01:06:47.210 any advice, help to like build out any of these 01:06:47.210 --> 01:06:49.429 different systems or tools, or you just need 01:06:49.429 --> 01:06:51.289 help building top of funnel pipeline, obviously 01:06:51.289 --> 01:06:53.849 reach out to succession .bio. Happy to help. 01:06:53.989 --> 01:06:56.630 So there's my plug. Yeah, no, I love that. I 01:06:56.630 --> 01:06:58.889 was going to ask you to give me contact details 01:06:58.889 --> 01:07:00.289 so people get in touch with you. But I think 01:07:00.289 --> 01:07:01.730 you raised a really important point. It's come 01:07:01.730 --> 01:07:03.710 up a number of times in the podcast today, which 01:07:03.710 --> 01:07:07.050 is some people love tinkering and playing and 01:07:07.050 --> 01:07:09.550 building. And some people want something that 01:07:09.550 --> 01:07:11.349 works because they've got results to deliver. 01:07:11.809 --> 01:07:14.909 And I think, and I don't think there's any, if 01:07:14.909 --> 01:07:18.769 there has been in this podcast, I haven't seen 01:07:18.769 --> 01:07:20.829 one. There's no value judgment in that. It's 01:07:20.829 --> 01:07:22.969 different people are good at different things 01:07:22.969 --> 01:07:27.030 and they enjoy. different things so for those 01:07:27.030 --> 01:07:29.530 of you that find this stuff nerdy cool and want 01:07:29.530 --> 01:07:31.570 to go play with it hopefully you feel encouragement 01:07:31.570 --> 01:07:35.289 to go play with it if you are a get stuff done 01:07:35.289 --> 01:07:38.630 outcomes i i want the outcomes of that stuff 01:07:38.630 --> 01:07:41.550 i don't want to build it myself go find people 01:07:41.550 --> 01:07:44.909 who like to build the stuff and then you can 01:07:44.909 --> 01:07:48.309 surf the waves they create to like massively 01:07:48.309 --> 01:07:50.889 amplify the impact that you can have and that's 01:07:50.889 --> 01:07:53.250 where you can work with people like Harrison 01:07:53.250 --> 01:07:56.969 on the sales side. We have a consulting and AI 01:07:56.969 --> 01:07:59.849 implementation arm at Supreme Group when it comes 01:07:59.849 --> 01:08:02.489 to more of the marketing side. There are plenty 01:08:02.489 --> 01:08:04.329 of people out there now who've been developing 01:08:04.329 --> 01:08:06.449 these skills that you can leverage to help you 01:08:06.449 --> 01:08:10.309 get better results. So on that note, thank you 01:08:10.309 --> 01:08:11.809 so much for coming on, Harrison. It's been a 01:08:11.809 --> 01:08:13.710 pleasure to hang out with you. Thank you. The 01:08:13.710 --> 01:08:16.270 podcast is back. I'm excited to be the second 01:08:16.270 --> 01:08:20.319 guest on the second iteration of the show. Pleasure's 01:08:20.319 --> 01:08:22.439 been all ours, and I'm sure I'll see you soon. 01:08:22.500 --> 01:08:24.180 Cheers, buddy. Of course. Yeah, man. Have a good 01:08:24.180 --> 01:08:27.779 one. Talk to you later. Thank you for listening 01:08:27.779 --> 01:08:30.899 to Artificially Intelligent Marketing. To stay 01:08:30.899 --> 01:08:34.000 on top of the latest trends, tips, and tools 01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:37.500 in the world of marketing AI, be sure to subscribe. 01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:40.579 We look forward to seeing you again next week.