Welcome to Artificially Intelligent Marketing, a weekly podcast where we stay on top of the
latest trends, tips, and tools in the world of marketing AI, helping you get the best
results from your marketing efforts.
Now let's join our hosts, Paul Avery and Martin Broadhurst.
Hello, welcome to episode 24 of Artificially Intelligent Marketing, where we're looking
forward to keeping all of you lovely marketers up to date on all the things in AI that you
need to know about.
Now not much news really in the world of marketing AI this week, but what there has been has
been absolutely massive.
So we've got three or four main topics that Martin and I are going to cover today, and
then we're going to jump into our interview this week, which is with Jeff Coyle, co-founder
at Market Muse, which is a leading software tool for AI powered content strategy.
As usual, I'm going to be joined today by my co-host Martin Broadhurst.
Martin, how are you this week?
I am feeling good and I'm really enjoying the mix of articles that we've got coming
up this week.
Some big stories, as you say.
I just want to spend a minute just looking at my experiences dealing with some clients
this week, because I had an interesting one where I was doing a workshop, I was doing
a HubSpot implementation with a client of mine, and as part of that process, I used
ChatGPT in a way that I would typically use ChatGPT.
I just asked it a simple question.
I asked it for some ethnicity categories that you would typically find on UK surveys, and
then I had a bit of a back and forth as I asked it to format the data for me.
What was really surprising was the response of my clients as they sat there in awe of
the way that I was using it.
It just reminded me just how far we've still got to go until this adoption.
These tools, I'm using them all day every day.
I know that you're obviously using them regularly.
People are still completely unaware of just how much these tools can improve efficiency
and productivity in the workplace.
I agree.
I think it's very interesting you've had that experience this week, because we'll see from
our news stories that we have to tell the listeners this week that the tipping point,
you could argue it's coming, but I think this week it may be there.
We'll get a bit deeper into that as we get through the stories for this week.
Myself, I was on holiday last week in sunny Norfolk, so very little on the AI front for
me, lots of trampoline bouncing instead with my nieces and nephews.
But like you say, really excited to see some of the stories that we have this week.
Let's get stuck in straight away with story one, which is that ChatGPT Enterprise has
been unveiled by the team over at OpenAI, which they promise will be an enhanced version
of ChatGPT designed specifically for business use.
This is not a complete surprise, but some of the nuances of what you're going to be
able to do with ChatGPT Enterprise is quite interesting.
The first one is enterprise-grade security and privacy.
Your prompts and your company data that you upload into the system are not going to be
used for training OpenAI's models.
Data is going to be encrypted pretty much all the time, and the system has been certified
as SOC 2 compliant.
So in essence, what this does is overcomes most of the objections that a lot of companies
have had about letting their employees use ChatGPT around data security and privacy.
Added to that, there's going to be a number of features that just make it easier for enterprises
to roll ChatGPT out to their employees.
The types of things that are honestly the mainstay in enterprise-level software that
now ChatGPT will have, so there'll be an admin console for an admin to be able to bulk manage
users.
You're going to be able to use things like single sign-on.
You're going to have domain verification, and there's even going to be an analytics
dashboard for admins to be able to see who's using the tool, how much they're using it,
and all of that good stuff.
So again, the types of things that you'd expect to see really an enterprise-level software
having that so far ChatGPT hasn't had.
I think where it gets really interesting is that this is now promising to be the most
powerful version of ChatGPT yet, because if you have enterprise, you're going to have
unlimited access to GPT-4.
So it's going to be no usage caps.
It's not going to be like the 50 messages every three hours that most paid users currently
face.
It's also promising to be higher performance, up to two times faster.
How are they achieving that?
Those reasonable questions like, are they throwing more GPU at it, or have they actually
changed the way the model works?
Who knows?
To be unveiled at some point in the future, one assumes.
If you're an enterprise user, you're going to have unlimited access to what was known
as code interpreter, but will now be called advanced data analysis.
You're going to have 32k token context windows as standard, which of course most people have
been waiting for both through the API and through the tool itself.
But now it seems like that's going to be coming to enterprise first.
You're going to have shareable chat templates for your company to use.
There's been lots of tools emerged to try and help people have like, cropped databases
and all this other stuff.
So I think basically that's going to be built in.
And you're going to get free credits to use the APIs if you need to extend the tool beyond
just using it as a chat tool.
So pretty exciting news, especially for those companies that have not been able to use chat
GPT for a lot of those data security fears, but also some extra powerful aspects to chat
GPT that we all can't access right now.
And we'll be waiting to see how much this is going to cost because that hasn't been
announced yet.
What are your thoughts on this story, Mark?
I'm very jealous of those users that get access to this early on with those two times faster
speeds and 32k context window.
But you can see that they've already got some big companies on board.
So they've mentioned some other enterprise or early adopter enterprises, the likes of
Canva and I think there was some Deloitte maybe and McKinsey, those clients are getting
on board with it early.
Yeah, it was the natural progression as we're going to discuss shortly.
More AI tools are coming to the fore and getting more baked into the productivity suites that
we all know and love.
So OpenAI making this move this week makes logical sense.
Absolutely.
I mean, I think probably the bit that I'd be the most excited about is being able to
use code interpreter, now advanced data analysis to analyze both client and biostrata data
without worrying about what to upload.
Because so far, I haven't had confidence enough in OpenAI to give them anything of any real
meaning, if I'm honest, certainly nothing easily identifiable as data from biostrata
or as clients.
So to be able to actually lean into that and properly analyze data without that worry is
a big thing for me, especially given the wide skill set that code interpreter has outside
of just your standard data analysis and creating graphs and things that I know will not have
the early use cases.
You've been playing with code interpreter this week, haven't you, Mike?
Yeah, just trying something a bit different.
I was getting frustrated with some long text and going back to that 32k context window,
that's what I really want.
But in light of not having that, I tried uploading a TXT file with the text broken down into
chapters that were very clearly marked in the file.
And then I uploaded that file to code interpreter and basically helped me to write a blog post
with that as the reference material.
And it did a better job than Claude.
Claude has that bigger context window, but I just feel that his writing isn't as sharp.
So by saying to code interpreter, check the TXT file and go to this part of the text and
then read that chapter, it was able to give it the, basically an artificially large context
window through which to pull some source material down.
And it runs all of that through its Python scripts and what have you.
And it worked really well.
I was very happy with the outputs.
Not something that I thought to do in terms of taking a TXT file before, but yeah, I would
definitely recommend people do that in order to interrogate some longer form text.
Yeah, it's an interesting use case.
And I think given that you did that to get around not having a very large context window
so far, one has to assume that at some point we're all going to get 32k even if you're
not on the enterprise plan, you can still use that approach to increase the context
window even more.
So yeah, very interesting stuff.
And dear listeners, if you have any cool applications of code interpreter that you've been playing
with, we'd love to hear about them because I think it's probably of all of the different
things you can do with chat GPT and other, you know, Claude and other large language
model bots.
That I think is the one that has the largest scope to do really cool stuff beyond just
having a content creation engine or having conversations with a AI bot.
Right next story, it's going to be HubSpot's inbound conference this week.
You'll be heading off there, Martin, what are your thoughts?
There's going to be a maybe what are the announcements are going to be?
What do we think is going to go on in Boston this week?
Well, we know that AI is going to feature heavily.
HubSpot have made some big moves in this.
They've already integrated AI through the content assistant, which is kind of baked
into the web tool and the email marketing tool.
So it will write your subject line.
It will actually write entire emails for you.
If you use the HubSpot sales plugin on Chrome or Outlook, you can get the AI to write your
emails and it will ask if it's an introduction email, follow up email or something like that.
And you can use a bit of prompt engineering to get high quality outputs from it.
But AI we know is going to be very heavily baked into the product going forward.
And how do we know that?
Well, HubSpot has already published an AI roadmap.
So in the roadmap, this is freely available online.
They talk about HubSpot AI in 2023 is really focusing on three main priorities.
One is to increase AI powered efficiency across your company.
And the idea is that they want to help companies to eliminate repetitive tasks that take time,
money, deep expertise, and they want AI to do the heavy lifting there.
Number two, they want to drive effectiveness using AI for better business outcomes.
And that's more about using AI to unlock intelligent insights and basically giving you actionable
insight on what way to maybe use your data.
And that's going to be driving that.
And then number three is connect with your customers better than ever before, which is
going to be more about recommendation engines, personalization, individualized engagement
strategies is something that they talk about in the roadmap.
Now this is going to be rolled out across all of their main hubs.
So they've got marketing hub, sales hub, service hub, and CMS hub.
And I'm very, very excited to see what particular products they launch across these hubs.
Now in marketing hub as it exists today, they've already got content assistant, which I've
already mentioned for landing pages, social media, et cetera.
But they talk about image generation.
This is something that I haven't seen baked into the platform as of yet, but presumably
it is on the horizon for social media posts and you can well imagine how if you're designing
landing pages or call to actions, having a stable diffusion type model baked into HubSpot
will make finding the right image just that little bit easier.
Now on the sales hub side of things, this is where I think the intelligence really comes
into it.
They're talking about AI powered sales forecasts, predictive deal health scores, as well as
content assistant for Gmail, Outlook, and their mobile app, which is also brilliant.
I think that's going to be huge.
If they can get the AI powered sales forecasting right and things like AI powered lead scoring,
and they've had smart leads going for some time and it's worked very well for organizations
that I know have deployed it, but if they can do that with even more data and in even
more areas of the sales process, I think this is going to help them stand out against other
CRM systems.
There's one piece in the roadmap.
There's a bunch of other elements that are in here.
I'm not going to go through them all line by line, but there's one thing that really
stood out to me in the roadmap and we haven't seen any sign of it in HubSpot as of yet,
but other companies are bringing it to the fore, and that is an AI website builder.
So HubSpot has CMS hub.
You can build your entire website on there.
It's a very good content management system.
We saw Wix announce their AI powered website builder.
We saw the demo, the trailer looks brilliant, looks very slick.
Is that what HubSpot's going for?
Are they going for that same prompt driven website builder or is it going to be something
entirely different?
I don't know, and I'm excited to find out.
Hopefully they're going to make some announcements about that next week, but yeah, I wait with
baited breath.
Yeah, I think it's going to be really interesting.
Since HubSpot have been much more transparent or maybe even just proactive is a better word
when it comes to their roadmap.
Some of the excitement has perhaps gone out of HubSpot product updates because they have
this roadmap and so they're kind of telling us what's coming.
But one of the fun things about going to inbound was always what exciting new thing are they
going to launch within the tool set that we don't know about.
It would be really great if there are a few aspects there that are not so overtly obvious
on their roadmap that just will get us all excited.
For me, I'm hoping that they bait AI into the content creation process in a more effective
way.
We've got an interview later with Jeff at Market Muse.
There's so much scope for AI to touch and influence every part of the HubSpot stack.
And I feel like they've made really good progress with things like content assistant, but I
want to be able to get a full blog draft that I edit a little bit like some of the workflows
that BioStratasone Marketing leverages with ChatGPT, for example, rather than the morbidity
process that it is right now.
It should also be baked into the SEO aspects of HubSpot, right, by definition.
And as you've talked about having images that are automatically generated, at least for
the header for the blog, should be relatively easy to do and is drifting towards table stakes,
I think, at this point in terms of how hard is it to connect a content creation tool with
an image generation tool where the content in the blog post is, in essence, the prompt
that drives the image generation.
Right.
That shouldn't be that hard.
I'm really open to see some of that cool stuff.
Again, they've been really proactive with those betas.
I just got access this week to the subject line beta, so I'm going to be giving that
a try this week.
For those of you that don't know, it's using generative AI to come up with different subject
lines for your emailers, but doing it automatically and allowing you to quickly and easily run
things like A-B tests and all that good stuff.
So again, I really want those things.
I really want some cool announcements, but my worry is all the cool stuff now you can
get on restricted betas, especially if you're a partner agency, and you've got the roadmap.
So I want to see between the lines of the roadmap something cool and interesting that
I'm not expecting.
Yeah, agreed.
Certainly on the SEO front, I think the topic cluster tool that they have within HubSpot
at the moment is good for helping you literally join the dots on your content strategy, but
it isn't doing the AI-powered semantic SEO user intent NLP analysis.
And that's where, maybe they're just saying, look, that's not us.
And that is for the likes of MarketMuse, that is for the likes of SEMrush and what have
you to do.
We're not stepping into that territory.
But I do feel like that is where there's big gains to be made in the HubSpot stack.
Yeah, I agree.
And by default, having all of our blog posts on HubSpot CMS should give us a leg up in
terms of being able to train the AI to produce content that's written more like we write
because it has access to all of our content.
And I know they gave it some capabilities to train it on your content, but they're quite
limited so far, which I'm sure is context window limited.
So when some of the underlying tools, their context window increases, like we just talked
about with ChatGBT, perhaps that will get better.
But that's another thing I would love to see announced this week.
Now there were some large announcements the week just gone, but in this case from Google.
So in our next story, Google Workspace is now rolling out Google Duet to all Workspace
users, which is a real time AI system that is aiming to simplify pretty much all your
work tasks.
Why is this a big deal?
Well, many of you that are listening will probably be using Google Workspace to power
your work within your businesses, whether that's Gmail, Google Docs, etc, etc.
And Google Workspace already has 3 billion users and 10 million paying businesses customers.
So you can imagine that rolling out this type of AI powered assistant to that many businesses
is that inflection point that Mark and I were talking about the start of the show in terms
of really handing AI powered tools on a silver platter, making it super easy for people to
use them.
To give you a bit of an idea of what this is going to look like, do AI promises to be
able to compile a complete presentation for you based on data in your Google Drive and
Gmail big fat asterisk on that on to how well that actually works.
But turning something that might have taken all day in something you can get done before
lunchtime or maybe even before your morning copy.
Perhaps just as excitingly, at least for me is the fact that do AI is also going to be
integrated into Google Meet.
So it's going to have features like auto translated captions in 18 languages, improved audio and
video quality.
And fundamentally, the coolest thing is if you miss a meeting, or you're on a meeting
and you don't want to manually take notes, the AI will attend for you take notes and
then send out summaries with actions to keep everybody in the loop.
So that's pretty cool.
And I think pretty powerful.
We've been waiting for something like this to be easily accessible in Teams and Zoom
and it looks like Google may actually gives up the more than a little bit in terms of
bringing that power to people more widely.
And of course, there are lots of users of workspace.
There is going to be some improvements to Google Chat as well.
I have to admit we're a Google Workspace business, but we don't really use Google Chat.
So it'll be interesting to see if this makes it a true competitor to Slack and Teams and
other chat tools that people use, where it's going to be able to enable you to do things
like ask the do AI questions directly in chat and also keep up with what's going on in your
team and across your business by integrating and having conversations with the Google do
AI model within the chat interface.
And then the last part as a callback to what we were talking about earlier with chat GPT
for enterprise is that do AI is being designed with privacy and security in mind, ensuring
that your data remains your own.
So that's obviously going to be really important for most businesses that want to hopped into
this.
The relevance here for marketers is be prepared to upskill quickly in what you can use do
AI for within your business.
If it gets activated at the moment, it's being rolled out as a 14 day free trial limited
to 10 users.
Martin and I have got access to it.
We'll go into that in a bit.
But once you are through your free trial, it will be here in the UK, 30 pounds plus
a user per month.
Now Biostrat I think pays about six pound a user a month as it stands.
So certainly for SMEs and potentially even mid sized businesses, this is going to be
a big jump in how much you're paying Google for software and is in line with the reported
costs of Microsoft Copilot when that comes out, which I'm sure they will be scrambling
to do in the next week or two now that Google do it has been released.
What are your thoughts on this one, Martin?
I think you've been having a play, haven't you?
I have, but before we get into that, I just want to touch on the price.
So the 30 pounds per month is on top of any existing subscription that you've got.
So it's not a replacement for that.
So if you're paying seven pound per user per month, that's now 37 pound per user per month.
If you pay annually rather than monthly, it is 25 pounds per month.
So there is a significant jump, sorry, discount for the annual commitment, which I think is
reasonable.
The other thing I did appreciate when I was looking at the pricing is that you don't have
to assign the licenses company wide.
So unlike with Google workspace, where if the workspace is on say the business plan
or the enterprise plan, everyone in the organization has to have that with this, that isn't the
case.
And that was a real consideration for me thinking about the rollout and adoption of this, where
some organizations are going to have people that desperately want to get their hands on
these tools and other organizations are going to have people who quite simply are never
going to use these tools.
They're going to stay in their lane and just use the tools that they know work for them.
If they had to upgrade because one person wanted it and everyone suddenly has to pay
$30 per month, that felt like it was going to be a step too far.
Fortunately, the licensing on this doesn't work like that.
In terms of initial thoughts, my immediate impression is boy, oh boy, are we buying the
roadmap here?
This is an unfinished product.
This is early.
And is it particularly capable at this point?
No, not in my limited trials.
Admittedly, it's very limited.
But a couple of examples, they have the write an email for me tool in Gmail.
Fine.
It's okay.
It's the same as using Bard.
The output, the quality of the outputs is exactly the same as using Bard.
There didn't seem to be any additional functionality that I came across in early usage.
Now they do say that more features are coming, but that's why I say it's like buying the
roadmap.
You're buying the future of what's coming, not the reality of where it is today.
The notion that it can create slide decks for you, as far as I can see, that's not a
reality yet.
What you get if you go into slides is an image generator.
You can put in a prompt like you would in mid-journey or stable diffusion, and it will
create an image for you and you can add that into your deck.
In Sheets, you can write a prompt and ask it to do a thing for you.
Maybe create a project plan for maybe a web development project or something like that.
My testing of that was that it was kind of okay, but I would probably do a better job
myself.
I asked it to do a project plan for a web development project and it created the table,
assigned some timelines and some tasks.
If you use a Sana or another project management tool that has AI baked into it, the project
plans that you get from those AI-generated project plans are better, more detailed, more
comprehensive.
The one thing that I thought it did do, which was pretty interesting, was brought in some
elements of Google Sheets that I know are there, but I never use.
For example, the tabs or the ability to, like the buttons that you can add to cells.
They announced it a couple of years ago.
I don't know if you actively use them in your Sheets poll, but I certainly don't.
I knew they were there, but they're great for project management.
They're just not a feature that I'd ever incorporated into my workflow.
It brought them into the project plan.
I thought, okay, that's quite neat.
It's making me use more of the functionality that it has available to it.
It isn't creating particularly, I asked it to create a Gantt chart, didn't do that at
all, so that was a complete fail.
It can't create a slide deck right now.
It can do image generation for $30 or £30 a month.
I'm not sure I would upgrade to it.
The moment I'm on day two of my trial, so who knows, speak to me in two weeks' time
and maybe I'm more excited and more enthusiastic, but right now, it's somewhat lacking.
I'd agree.
I think that 14-day trial is going to turn out to be a real risk for Google because I'm
not sure businesses are going to be able to tap into enough power to make them to want
to commit to paying for it.
When I think about how best to roll this out within an organization, me and you are haley
nerds, so we are in a really strong position to start playing with it and try and get it
to do things.
A big, big gap for most businesses is going to be training and empowering people to leverage
the tools in their daily workflows.
All of that is a massive barrier and I'm not sure how much progress a business can make
in 14 days to go, all right, let's commit to this.
The best case scenario for Google, but to a certain extent for businesses as well, is
going to be to create some sort of AI working group within a business that's a small collection
of users that are well positioned to get benefits through the tools, that have interests in
trying to want to get to grips with the tools, that basically pilot this on behalf of the
rest of the business to figure out if you can maximize the use of it to actually get
value out of that 30 pounds per user per month.
So yeah, we can have a play.
I think we'll probably test it reasonably well in that 14 day period, but most businesses
are not going to have to, so they are not going to be able to.
So they're either going to have to create that working group and suck up a bit of costs
or leave it.
So I think it would be really interesting to see what the uptake of this actually ends
up being.
Yeah, it's going to be a big commitment for a lot of businesses if they don't see value
from it quickly.
It's also interesting, and it comes a week after rumors started circulating about the
expected price of paid plans for Claude.
So it was rumored this week that Claude.ai will cost users $50 per month, which compared
to all of these other tools is quite steep, $20 per month for ChatGPT+, and $50 is a big
jump, copilot rumored to be 30.
But strangely, I would pay $50 per month for Claude without batting an eyelid.
We had this discussion, didn't we, over WhatsApp?
I honestly don't agree.
I'm really looking for these tools to be a little bit lower cost than $50 a month, because
I think one of the biggest challenges is going to be shifting user behavior to have them
really leverage these tools.
I think $50 per month in your workflow and the way that you work is probably good value
for you, but I think for most people it's not going to be.
If they try and charge too much for this too early, I think they're going to blunt adoption,
because a lot of small and mid-sized businesses are not going to be able to take the punt
on those types of costs without having some idea of how they're going to get and measure
return on investment.
I think the return on investment will be there, but only if you, as we said, train people
and empower them to find effective use cases for using the tools.
That's a massive barrier.
I think a lot of software companies going, right, we want to charge this.
Here you go, here's the tool, expecting that somehow the businesses are going to figure
out how to leverage it effectively across a wider user base across their employees.
I don't think it's going to work out like that.
A little plug, Martin and I do offer AI training and consultancy for businesses that want to
unlock the potential of these systems to massively boost their productivity and efficiency.
But I think that's going to be a critical piece, right, because without it, you're going
to just be throwing money away because AI is calling.
You thought you should buy some, right?
Let's move on to our last story today, which is a good example of AI being pretty cool,
but not quite as cool as it sounds.
Martin, tell us about, is it ideogram?
Is that how it's pronounced?
I don't know.
Ideogram, ideogram, tell us about it.
Ideogram, ideogram, take your pit.
It's a new startup, which is the brainchild of some ex-Google brain researchers, and they've
managed to secure $16.5 million in seed funding from A16Z and Index Ventures.
And this is an AI image generator.
So it's a new tool, new model that has a specific unique feature.
So unlike other AI image generators, ideogram is generating reliable text.
I say reliable in air quotes.
That's its special trick.
That's its party trick, is it can do text in images where other models suffer horribly.
So it's available in beta via a web app, and it has some preset image generation styles,
one of which is typography.
And this feature allows users to produce lettering in different colors, fonts, sizes, styles
using prompts.
You can also ask it to just create images of somebody holding a sign with some text
on it, and it will do exactly that.
And there's some pretty cool examples.
If you log in, you can see almost like a real-time feed of favorited images, ones that people
think are particularly good.
One example that we've got, and we'll put this onto the website show notes, is an image
of Star Wars Mandalorian holding a big tub of protein powder.
And across the front it says, this is the way.
Very clever.
So way, W-H-E-Y, right?
Yeah, whey protein.
Ha ha ha.
And then another one, which is of a big wall.
And the prompt just said, your prompt are public, you weirdos, Banksy Graffiti.
And then on the wall in spray paint, it says, your prompt are public, you weirdos.
And it's perfectly legible.
So in those two examples, it's done a very good job.
In trying it for the podcast, I added the prompt, cheering crowds waving signs saying
artificially intelligent marketing.
And when you generate this, it creates four images, kind of very standard across these
kind of models.
The first one nails the brief.
There is a crowd of people and in the foreground there is a woman holding a sign that says
artificially intelligent marketing.
But from there on, it, well, it misses the mark substantially.
The next one says artificially long intelligent.
And then the next one says something that's absolute nonsense.
And the final one says there is no planet B. So I'm not 100% convinced by its reliability
just yet.
It is somewhat hit and miss.
And another observation that I made in testing was, does suffer from the hands and the face
ghoulishness that we've seen on other AI image generator models.
Yeah, that's a great summary.
Thanks, Myan Earth.
Haven't played with it a bit.
My experiences have been the same as yours.
And looking, even just looking at the images that you generated, I get the sense that they've
deliberately tried to train this model on signage and writing.
And I think that's one of the reasons it's actually quite bad at people and hands and
all the other things.
Like it's, it's like image generators from like a year ago, you know, almost in terms
of its general image generation capabilities.
But it's really good at text, probably because it was trained on text.
It's interesting that even the best artificially intelligent marketing placard that was generated
spell artificially wrong, right?
So that's still pretty much a big issue, even though it's quite clear in the prompt because
you spelled it right in the prompt.
And even in some of the like outputs that you got, there is no planet B sign that you
got.
I think that's a real one from the training data and then the image next to it is clearly
based on that, but is just some weird amalgamation.
So as a user, you probably don't need to care too much about that.
But in essence, the summary here is it's much better at text than any of the other tools.
You can, with some brute force, get a good and legible output, including some of the
sort of interesting and funny examples of mine gave us at the beginning.
But if you think you can go boot this up and start producing production ready signage and
logos, I would seriously question your ability to do that.
I think there's much better, but you're going to have to prompt a lot in order to get what
you want.
And it's going to mess up quite a bit of stuff and worth keeping in mind that us as a group
of weirdos have to keep in mind that our prompts are public because whilst this is a free tool
right now, whatever prompts you put in, they do end up on the sort of recent examples board
within the Ediegram tool.
So when you're having a play with this, do keep in mind people can see what you're generating
and that's probably why it's free.
And when you want to be able to generate private images, be expecting to pay for that when
the paid version is rolled out.
I think one of the things I'm excited with here is whether or not this will nudge the
power tools out there that kick drops the mid journeys to try and improve their text
generation or whether or not we'll end up with different image generation AI tools for
different use cases.
But one thing I really want to see is better text because it does limit your ability to
produce a whole suite of images that would be interesting, certainly as a marketer when
it comes to using AI driven image generation tools.
Well, it's the next frontier, isn't it?
Text in AI images.
It's the next logical progression.
We know that it is capable.
Google about a year ago, maybe over a year ago, published their research paper on their
image generation model party, PARTI.
And that has a 20 billion parameter model, which was able to create images in text and
on signs, things like that, very well.
Now, obviously in the paper, they were probably selecting some of the better examples and
on the blog post talking about it.
We know it's possible, but 20 billion parameters is a particularly large model for image generation.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think we're going to see a lot here over the next six months.
And hopefully this will be one of the things that helps kickstart some of those improvements.
Right.
So that's all of the stories that we're covering this week, really focusing in on the big ones
you mentioned at the beginning.
From here, we're going to move into our interview.
Martin, tell us a bit more about your interview this week.
Yeah, a good interview with Jeff Coyle.
Now, Jeff has forgotten more about SEO than I'll ever know.
He's the co-founder of MarketMuse, a computer scientist by trade.
And we had a great conversation about how AI is changing search engine optimization and
content marketing.
But I started the conversation by asking him to tell us a little bit about what MarketMuse
does.
So MarketMuse is a content intelligence and content strategy software platform.
So it's focused on giving insights as to what people should be writing, why they should
be writing it.
What should they need to write?
And then taking them as far down that journey of creation or updating or optimization as
they want.
So we've been around for as long as nine and a half years.
I joined the company when we took it to market and went full time about eight and a half
years ago.
The challenge that I saw consistently was that teams didn't have direction on what to
create and why they should be creating it or what to update and what would be the highest
priority for updating.
And those were really where a lot of the challenges that search engine optimization teams, content
marketing teams, demand gen, editorial had getting along effectively.
We think you should write this page and they're like, we don't want to write that page.
Why would we write it?
And it's like, because keywords?
And then they're like, that's not enough of a good reason.
And my goal kind of as having lived through that and worked on manual processes was what
of these things can be optimized?
What of these things can be automated?
And that was the journey of Market Muse.
And so we're doing a lot of insight in things that are automating people's day to day, but
also giving them ideas that they wouldn't have gotten elsewhere.
So you talk about the giving the insights and the intelligence.
Just break that down for us in terms of, if I was to sign up for an account today, what
am I going to get as a content marketer?
So I like to think about it as site level and page level.
That's the easiest way to think of content strategy versus more, I'm touching a page,
I'm updating a page, I'm making a page beautiful.
So we have solutions at both of those kind of zones.
So in the page level, you may already have a draft, no matter where you got it from,
it may be a page that you invested in years ago.
It may be something you're working on or recently published.
What insights do you want from that?
How do I make that better?
How do I make it more comprehensive?
How do I make it more aligned with today's intent?
Or how do I ensure that it is equal to or better than all of my competitors every time?
So that's where we provide insights, but not just by copying your competitor, by understanding
what it means to be an expert.
And then at the site level, you're looking at what you currently have.
So you want to know what breadth and depth of coverage you have, the quality, if you
have any momentum, and are there off-page factors you should consider.
So we do effectively a on-demand content inventory to say, if I were to focus on this topic,
we can give you an idea of what coverage you have, how much momentum you have, and we are
the only people that personalize a difficulty score.
So if you're in the SEO world, everybody's got their own scores, everybody's got their
own difficulty.
We personalize that so you can say, how hard will this be for us?
Is this impossible or is this a quick win?
And what we found is by looking at the quality of the content and the coverage levels, we're
able to very effectively predict outcomes and say, hey, you need a seven to 10 page
cluster on this to even start putting points on the board.
It really changes the way organizations work because so many teams, they think that writing
content and publishing it is somewhat of a dice roll.
They don't know, is it going to do well?
Maybe if we look at it next year, we'll know.
And being able to get to the point where they're asking for budget with effective predictions
really changes the way teams work.
How is AI baked into market views?
So it has always been an AI first platform and that is 10 years ago.
And then you have things like topic modeling, graph analysis, and entity analysis.
And now we've innovated over the past six, seven, eight years in the field of generation
and how can we use generative technology to empower not just writing pages.
People often mistake that text generation means going to draft.
There's a lot of use cases for natural language processing, natural language generation, that
output, even giving a writer a prompt, building briefs, building outlines, making it so that
their job staying in the loop and exhibiting their expertise isn't stunted.
And so when you take technology and data and now it's being used as part of conversations
where it never would have been in the past, that's where I see market news fitting in
is to say that editor who's the most brilliant subject matter expert on this topic wants
data to be part of their discussion.
And this is really the last couple of years has been the first time that that's ever been
a reality.
And I think so much of that requirement to demonstrate expertise is becoming increasingly
important.
And the Google guidelines with the eat and the experience expertise, all of that is becoming
increasingly important.
And I think marketers are just, people have been playing SEO and doing SEO hardcore.
They know this, they're staying on top of the Google guidelines, but lots of copyrights
don't understand the importance of going deep on expertise in particular.
Where do you think this is taking us?
If we're looking 18, 24 months out from today, where do you think this is taking us from
a search perspective?
The biggest change I'll highlight would be this is going to be the time period where
the rise of the expert happens and content quality is no longer an option.
And if you were doing things to get away with mediocre or heaven forbid worse than mediocre
content, that is going to be devastating for you.
It could potentially make you ignorable, but it may actually negatively impact your brand
at a level that's going to be difficult to remediate.
And the unique hilarious part about this is it's getting back to early days of editorial,
early days of journalism, early days of search, where you were thinking critically about user
intents and you have to bring your A game every time.
And how can we do that while also being fast and while also automating?
It becomes the challenge for every single team.
I think people have to be a little bit understanding that they're going to make a lot of mistakes.
And so I'm seeing this a lot.
I cringe every time I look at my Facebook or Instagram and I see, hey, here's how to
do keyword research with ChatGPG.
And I'm like, don't do it.
No, you don't get it.
Because the outputs look so good.
The outputs look legitimate.
And so a new wave of sharp people are going to be building technology and implementing
technology to take advantage of people implementing it poorly.
And that's a wild thing to think about.
So it's effectively saying, if you're using keyword density or you're using term frequency
to optimize your pages as an SEO association, it's really easy to beat you in organic search.
If you're a shark, if you've been doing this for a long time, right?
And you're going to now have that.
It's really easy to beat you if you're using generative AI badly.
It's like today's spam, today's bad spammers.
Like it's really, I mean, and there's even new waves of things spiking in the SEO community
and in the content community where people are saying, hey, this is super easy.
Just launch 10,000 pages and go for it.
I would love nothing more than for my clients, competitors to go do those things because
it's like, I'm just waiting for the sword of Damocles to no longer have a rope, right?
And I think it has a rope in the end.
The thing that cuts your head off.
And that's what you're experiencing right now is I'm watching train wrecks.
I'm watching them before they happen.
And I'm just like train wrecks coming.
The product reviews update was a great example of that where we were ahead of the game and
trying to advise all of our clients to get religion on that a year ahead of time.
Because at some point, Google is not going to be okay with content that pretends to review
something that doesn't actually review it, right?
You're going to see that times a million.
The search generative experience with Google, right?
It changes every day, right?
Currently the three units of pay, if you don't know what search generative experience is,
it's the generated search results on Google, which there are some, they're in a test plan
clearly where they're assessing it.
The query deserves to have this experience.
And then they're showing effectively a mediocre book report on the topic.
And then sometimes they're showing products, sometimes they're showing some pages from
the learner's journey.
If you want to, you can type in another question and continue that experience.
And then you'll go into their normal search result.
It's clearly a work in progress.
And Google has shown to us that they get things right over time.
It takes them some time.
One thing I'm seeing is that Google is referencing what they consider to be great resources,
right?
And one example of this for e-commerce sites is, but they're actually anchoring down to
the text.
So some of these e-commerce sites, their category pages are cracking and it's anchoring down
to the footer.
So you click, so you're in this like funky, unexpanded filter funnel experience.
You basically just like, you know, so there's so many different layers of this.
Because imagine, right, if you put your FAQ below the fold on your category page and Google's
like, yeah, that was a good answer.
I got that.
They're actually dragging you down to the bottom on it.
And nobody's ready for that right now.
So there's just a lot of things that people aren't ready for the implications of the bad
decisions they've made to put the customer's experience second.
And I think that what the big change to come somewhere with this landing pad is every business
is going to have to examine where they've made a decision for traffic, for lead gen,
for e-commerce sales that wasn't customer first.
That's going to end up being the story.
It's going to take us a couple of years to get there.
But over time, that's going to end up being the story.
Yeah, I think SGE is, we don't have access to it in the UK at the moment.
So I'm very much following from afar, just watching the likes of Lily Ray and other commenters
just doing all of these experiments every day.
And I do want to dive into it because it is fundamentally going to change the way that
organic content, how we engage with the organic.
I think in some respects, Google for a long time, Google generates money through selling
ad units, right?
So they want to deliver you the best user experience.
That just so happens to have been historically by giving you organic content and the best
of that content.
But they don't really care about organic truly.
They want to sort out the, what is it?
What's the mission?
To organize the world's information.
So if they can do that and organic jumps 10% further down the page or 50% further down
the page in some instances that I've seen, while still presenting ad units, in fact still
getting more ad units.
Those Google shopping ad units are all over SGE as far as I can see.
Organic is a lower priority.
As long as they can access the information to then put that into the SGE, then they're
happy.
This isn't search results, right?
So if someone's coming to a search engine and they're getting stuff that isn't search
results, it has to be validated that that's the right thing to show, right?
Or it has to be validated in some other way that it's appropriate for their business to
show.
And so ad units are a great example of that.
Query refinement actions are all have always been a big part of Google's mission.
It's not just search results and that's a key.
So refinement of queries.
Someone wanting to go from a search to a browse experience has always been or a search to
a filtration experience.
So for me, I'm just seeing this as another someone wants to go from a search to a blah,
blah, blah experience, right?
And that's why I think you hear it as generative experience.
They don't know where that's going to land.
But what we can be confident in is that they're going to make the right decision over time
as to which queries should have this and shouldn't.
When the novelty wears off and it becomes ubiquitous, is it really going to be a great
experience for me to type in, you know, best Bluetooth speakers for a pool party.
And it's like Bluetooth speakers are this type of thing.
And if you go to a party, you know, you might want this feature or that feature or that
feature and you're like, well, that's not helpful at all.
And then they're showing me three links and I'm clicking and it's like early stage awareness
consideration purchase.
By the way, if you want to, if you want an observation of the week in your SGE, the right
rail tend to not have the same intent.
They tend to have almost a quickie journey.
It's a really good research.
That's worth the price of admission for this podcast today.
It's usually pretty good as to what intense Google favors for the journey on the topic.
And then you can scale down and there's actually two views in the SGE.
One is a pack and the other one's a stack.
And so the stack, you can actually see each segment.
It can go, you know, 3000, 4000 pixels if you look this top right button.
And so you start to learn, you're trying to learn about what I might need to be, who I
might need to be to be part of this, to be for my stuff, to get part of this.
And it's a little bit ambiguous right now, but we can be confident that it validates
Google's desire for you to have content at all stages of the learning journey or the
buying journey.
And for that to all exhibit expertise.
The persons that are going to get hit hardest here are e-commerce and e-commerce reviews.
Yeah.
I just, I mean, just, just, it would just be blunt.
And then the second tier that's going to get hit hardest is early stage awareness.
People that have fallen into early stage awareness content as their perception of how to rank.
And so if you've done really, really weak early stage awareness content only on your
site, you are a frail little deer and about to get walloped by a very large truck.
And that I'm looking at periodical publishers, B2B tech companies who rely solely on a low
quality glossary.
I've seen every which way this is going to shake out and those folks should be quaking
in their boots because they, you know, they were focused on a tactic instead of strategy.
And that's, that's the answer that you said at the top end is if your entire, if your
entire unpaid traffic collection channel setup is all coming from one tactic, you're in a,
you're in a bind, a big bind.
And a lot of these tactics that have been employed by what I call gray hat SEOs in the
past, they're usually the ones pointing at things on videos.
And you know, dancing about their results is a lot of those tactics, just they're completely
irrelevant if you've got, you know, they may work here and there and you may be able to
get some money out of it.
But if you're a real brand, it's going to catch up with you.
And we're already seeing that happen.
I mean, I, I can't obviously say any brands on this, but we're, we're seeing tragic stuff
happen with people who had had marginally hike marginally low quality or low quality
as a tactic in the past.
And they're like, what do we do?
And I'm like, you have to update 700 pages like yesterday.
And they're like, how do we do that fast?
And I'm like, unfortunately the situation you're in is that doing that fast is going
to cost you a lot of money and require expertise that you may not have.
And then what do you bring?
You bring what you bring, what makes you special.
If you bring what makes you special to that and bring your skills, you become a little
bit unstoppable.
And that's, you know, those, that's what we're going to be up against is it's the big publisher
who realizes that they can, they're so confident in the quality of their work that they can
base all of the world's information that they present to you off of something.
Right.
It's that the potential for a search engine as a concept to not be valuable.
There's a potential for an ad server as a concept to be irrelevant.
And I've been exploring that in my brain for about five years.
I did not know what would happen this quickly, but it is, it's going to be very, very fast
and it's going to be ugly that some of these previous ways one access information no longer
are relevant and then new technologies are going to take over.
And it's the world's changing, but we're doing away with a lot of really add customer
experience and information retrieval, negative information retrieval experiences.
And I think you're, you're going to see a couple of years, you're going to see SEOs,
certain SEOs are saying, I can't believe this tactic still works or this tactic will always
work.
And, and it's just, it's kind of like trite.
Yeah, we've had similar conversations on the podcast many times that short-term ism.
If you're thinking long-term, you, you've got to be looking at different approaches.
So over the next 12 months, where what's new for market views, what's coming?
You've mentioned a new tool there.
What have we got to look forward to?
So we have, we have a, our reintroduction of our proprietary language model technology,
which is going to go into our editor experience will be the first wave of that.
And then, so that'll happen in a month.
So I've been recommending people get a paid account right now because there will be a
packaging change is coming.
And then when that happens, and then in the, hopefully knock on wood in Q4, we will have
another release of our implementation of artificial intelligence solution that may sneak into
Q1, but doing something that no one's ever done before with this type of technology.
So that is, that's going to be an ex just, it's an exciting time to work in those areas.
But most more recently, I think some things we've launched are basically a quality and
a cluster quality analysis solution is baked into one of our applications.
We also have a cluster or universe keyword or topic, universe gap analysis solution.
So if you're monitoring a site, you can search for a topic and see where you have strengths
and weaknesses on that cluster.
And those things have been out for a couple of months and are, are worth your view.
I always say one of them is about a 10 and a half hour workflow.
And one of them is about 30, 30 hours.
So if you clearly see the benefit of those things, it can typically make the ROI easily
justifiable.
Well, whatever comes next, I'm looking forward to it.
The last bunch of updates that rolled out, the ones that stand out for me were the, the
SERP X-rays, brilliant feature.
I love diving into that.
So much insight, a lot of value for that.
So yeah, excited to hear what comes next.
Did people want to get started on Market Muse and Market Muse.com?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Go to Market Muse.com.
Shoot me an email, jeff at Market Muse.com or DM on the X.
Okay.
So if you're, if you're, if you're writing more than two or three pages a month right
now, this solution is going to be right for you.
And that's the key.
It may require you to do some, you know, soul searching and some cleanup.
And there's really no solution that's going to tell you how to stay differentiated while
you clean stuff up except Market Muse, because we make sure that when we give recommendations,
it's not just copy your competitor, it's differentiate and make sure that it's high quality and you
know, you really can't go wrong as long as you're putting your best foot forward as a
business.
Thank you for listening to Artificially Intelligent Marketing.
To stay on top of the latest trends, tips and tools in the world of marketing AI, be
sure to subscribe.
We look forward to seeing you again next week.