Welcome to Artificially Intelligent Marketing, a weekly podcast where we stay on top of the
latest trends, tips and tools in the world of marketing AI, helping you get the best
results from your marketing efforts.
Now let's join our hosts, Paul Avery and Martin Broadhurst.
Hello everyone, welcome to Artificially Intelligent Marketing.
Lovely to have you back again with us.
It is episode 15.
How very exciting.
How are you, Martin?
What have you been up to?
I've been putting together some new workshops that I'm delivering for businesses to help
them get started on using chat GPT.
Turns out there was a bit of demand for that and people wanted to know, how do I just get
started?
What can I do with this tool?
A lot of chatter and as much as we might be thinking everybody is using this already,
quite a lot of people just need a bit of a leg up.
So yeah, that's me.
How about you?
What have you been up to?
I have been out and about this last week.
I was at SAMPS, which is Sales and Marketing Professionals in Science.
It's a sort of networking community for those people, of which I am one.
And they these days run really great events for sales and marketing people in the life
sciences.
I was at a meeting at their event in Glasgow this week and the topic was AI.
And we were talking about all the different applications of chat GPT.
We did some really great stuff and had a lot of fun with Mid Journey.
I was very lucky.
I met some incredibly smart people who themselves are doing some awesome things with AI.
So I learned loads from that.
But I also learned a real ton of from the really great questions that everybody was
asking.
I was lucky to be part of, sat on some lunchtime tables having some amazing conversations with
people.
Then when I was wandering around, I could just hear people having these fantastic conversations.
And I think that is the critical piece here is we're still early on in the emergence of
a lot of these tools for use in marketing.
And if you think you're too late to the party, you're not.
But you got to get in now, right?
Like start understanding what's going on, start playing with the tools, start thinking
about what you can do with them.
There was a great guy at the event called Dan.
I'm going to try and get him on the podcast.
Actually, Martin is a bit of a ninja.
And he said there are no real experts in this yet.
And I think to a certain extent, he was right.
I think there's many of us that have done a lot of deep diving as you and I have Martin
and have perhaps been following AI for a couple of years.
But everything's merging so quickly and things are changing so fast.
It's important to just get in there and start playing with bits and pieces yourself.
And obviously to subscribe to the Artificially Intelligent Marketing podcast so you can get
a bit of a leg up and a bit of a head start.
Well, I think that's an interesting way of putting it, isn't it?
Anyone that's been doing it for a few years at the moment has a bit of a head start and
that's it.
But people that immerse themselves in this are going to be able to catch up pretty quickly
tinkering around with these tools.
You can learn a lot in a very short amount of time.
Were there any big takeaways from the event that you think are worth sharing?
I think the main one for me is there are still quite a few people who haven't really played
with the tools that much.
Although I must say, I thought the event somewhat self-selected for people who had an interest
in this and have probably been playing a bit because I had some really cool use cases and
I learned quite a lot from what people are doing.
I think there's been a fair bit of dabbling with ChatGPT, but people are still just trying
to figure out how to get the best out of it and what they can rely on it for.
Especially in our industry, we showed a number of several examples.
We have to do a lot of explaining complex scientific topics and justifying our conclusions
with citations.
ChatGPT is wondrous at just making up citations that sound absolutely on the nose, but they're
not real.
In many cases, we were showing live demos almost where that was happening and also live
demos where it would combine citations.
Maybe we'd get the title of the paper right, but the author in the year wrong.
Of course, if you can't rely on it for that type of stuff, can you really do anything
with it?
I think that was a reasonable question.
I think people are still trying to get their heads around that part.
Then at the other end of the spectrum, I think the ninjas now are moving beyond getting half-decent
at mid-journey and getting half-decent at ChatGPT.
They're looking at tools like Zapier and other sort of like AutoGPT and they're starting
to think, how can I chain actions together to get interesting outputs using Zapier?
I know that, Martin, you've talked previously about your application for recording a bit
of audio and then using Zapier to basically get that audio processed, transcribed through
something like Whisper and then turned into something like a short blog post section or
a social post using ChatGPT.
I think that's where people who are on the front end of this curve in the marketing area
at least, that's where they are right now, at least from what I could see.
Yeah, interesting.
Reflects what I think I'm seeing as well.
Good to know that we're all in the same kind of boat figuring this stuff out together.
We're all in it together.
Talking about the things that we're seeing, here's some of the things that we're seeing
this week.
We're going to cover four main stories.
We're going to talk about Boston Consulting Group reporting on 91% of CMOs seeing efficiency
gains from AI.
We're going to dive into that report.
We're going to talk about some upgrades to ChatGPT's API, which for those of you who
are playing with tools like Zapier could actually be important in terms of how much it costs
you and what you can now do.
We're going to look a little bit at some of the legal stuff around this, in particular,
EU Parliament Act to vote through the EU AI Act.
Crumbs don't say that after a cider.
And then we're going to look at another report that said that not many people are using ChatGPT
and that was a report from Morgan Stanley.
So we're going to dive into those.
We're going to do our short snippets in a minute and then we're going to focus on our tool
of the week, which is Contea.
And we're actually going to hear from one of Contea's founders in an interview this
week.
And that's how we're going to dive into our tool of the week.
So with that, let's get cracking on the short snippets because there is a fair few of them
to get through this week, isn't there Martin?
So numero uno is Mercedes-Benz is partnering with Microsoft to integrate ChatGPT into its
in-car voice assistant.
So I didn't know this, but there is already like a sort of hey Mercedes type tool in a
lot of Mercedes new cars.
And now that they've got this integration with ChatGPT, you can have much more natural
conversations with your car, certainly with your friends as well, if you want.
But if they're not around with your car and it will be able to deal with contextual follow-up
questions and really manage the natural language elements of that better stuff, quite interesting.
Then we had stable diffusion generated QR codes have gone a bit viral this week using
stable diffusion to create custom VR codes, which are basically also quite beautiful images.
And this is a quite a big improvement on other attempts, certainly that I've seen to try
and make QR codes look all branded or look more attractive.
Because in essence, you have like a really gorgeous image, almost with like a QR code
hidden in it that you can take a picture of and it will work as a QR code.
My experience has been some of them work well and some of them break really badly, but that's
what you see through our mind.
Absolutely.
Some of them work, some of them don't.
But if they can get that working, that's really quite cool because the images look stunning.
So it's a functional QR code embedded within them.
If we can get that working consistently, I think whoever commercialises that fine-tuned
stable diffusion model will do quite well for themselves.
I agree.
I bet there is a big old race going on to do just that.
If you're interested in playing with this, you can.
There are how-to's on the internet to get stable diffusion running locally off your
machine, not the model, but your access to the model.
And then you can get instructions on how to tailor your settings to be able to get half
decent QR code type images out of it.
But as Martin said, when we get a commercial version of this, all of those technical hoops
will be removed and we'll all be able to pay $10 a month and crack out as many awesome
looking QR codes as we like.
So we're excited to see that when it comes around.
Meta is making its open source model, Llama, that we've touched on before on the podcast,
available for businesses to use and build on top of.
So this is quite interesting because Llama is not quite as good as GPT-4, probably somewhere
between 3.5 and 4, maybe closer to 3.5 to be honest.
But it's interesting because A, it's going to provide businesses with another option
to be able to build their tools on top of.
But because it's open source, it probably gives businesses a bit more flex in terms
of if they have the coding capabilities internally to really play with it.
Plus there's lots of arguments floating around, some of which we've talked about on the podcast
and with Martin in terms of the ability to see those tools develop really quickly because
the open source community are playing with them, expanding their capabilities, making
them better and all that stuff.
That'd be an interesting one.
With that one, do we know if you have to download the model and host it yourself or is it API
access?
Do we know anything about how these businesses are going to access it at this point?
So the host of a well-researched podcast would absolutely be able to answer that question
Martin, but I cannot.
It is a great question.
I will accept that answer.
We go deep on the main stories.
We don't go so deep on the short snippets, but if you're interested in this, folks, hit
the Googlebot.
I'm sure you're all barred or Jack GPT plus Bing plugin and I'm sure you can uncover that
little bit of extra information, very important bit of information that Martin has just asked
about.
Then we have Accenture who has announced a $3 billion investment in AI over the next
three years to enhance this team of AI pros so that they can provide AI-focused solutions
for their clients.
In other words, help companies improve their efficiency and effectiveness across their
business using AI.
That's all well and good.
Personally, I'd probably just hire Martin because he's doing a lot of this stuff already.
Martin, give Accenture a call.
I think they need your help, pal.
I'm not sure that their budget is vast enough for my services.
They rates are going up by the moment.
Absolutely.
They're in their early doors, people, before he is at $3 billion a day.
Yeah.
I have an early bird access offer.
A lifetime deal.
Let's get him on AppSumo.
He loves AppSumo.
Yeah.
It's $2.5 billion for a day.
I saw that story and thought it was an interesting one from an AI-focused solutions guy.
I posted about this on LinkedIn separately.
I'm getting a lot of people speaking to me at the moment and saying, we want to do AI.
I go, okay, well, to do what?
What are we looking to achieve?
Oh no, we just know that our business needs it.
It's like, oh no, you've done that thing where we need AI.
You've brought a solution looking for a problem.
I think we just have to be mindful at any kind of scale business that we're not just
going AI, AI, AI, shiny thing, shiny thing.
No, not AI, AIO.
AI, AIO.
Isn't it all?
I know that my two-year-old too long.
I'd be willing to argue that your two-year-old is probably more socially dexterous than me
and probably has a better sense of humor.
You actually did a social post, didn't you?
I saw this week on this as it's relating to have a business use case where you can see
AI can provide a benefit rather than thinking, well, let's put AI in our business.
Well, an example of that is someone came to me a few weeks ago.
This was off the back of a conversation we'd had following a conference talk that I'd done
and they said, we really want to introduce AI and sat down with them and they didn't
need AI.
They just needed to use the marketing automation tools that they already had and they needed
to use them better and more effectively than they are doing.
Didn't need AI.
It needed some fairly simple automation.
I think there's an education gap.
I think so.
I think you're right.
I think there's probably a walk and then run aspect to it as well because of examples like
you just gave.
But right, let's crack on through these short snippets.
The next one we have is GPT-4 outperforming humans in pitch deck effectiveness apparently.
So Clarify Capital asked 500 investors and business owners to rate pitch decks created
by humans on their own or with track GPT's help.
And overall, the investors said that GPT generated pitch decks were on average about two times
more convincing and that they were three times more likely to invest after reading a GPT-4
pitch deck than a human one, which is interesting.
My takeaway from there was GPT-4 augmentation is going to help you do a better job if you
ask it the right questions and you use clever prompts.
But I think the human in the loop, there's probably a little bit more critical than the
report suggested.
Martin is nodding for our listeners and that's because he likes to agree with me occasionally,
but not that often.
Right.
So the next one is generative AI could add $4.4 trillion annually to the global economy,
according to a McKinsey report.
And according to, I think I found this in the Neuron, which is a great newsletter for
those that love their AI, this is more than the annual GDP of Canada, Australia and Spain
combined.
So there's some large hope there that we're going to get some positive economic impact
from using AI.
Where exactly that sits would be a good question.
Next little story is AI bringing John Lennon's voice back to life.
So we've got a quote here from Paul McCartney.
So this is not a someone in their bedroom thinking, I know what I'm going to do.
I'm going to create a cool tune and we'll get John Lennon on it.
It was actually because, and here's the quote, when we came to make what would be the last
Beatles record, it was a demo that John had that we'd worked on and we'd just finished
it up and it'll be released this year.
We were able to take John's voice and get it pure through this AI so that then we could
mix the record as you would normally do.
And it's because they had this recording on like a really old cassette tape and it sounded
awful and they were able to clean it up.
So the inference here is it's not quite as sexy this story as it sounds.
I think it's more of an AI audio cleanup story than a synthetic John Lennon story.
But hey, that means we might get some more Beatles music soon, which is not something
that perhaps we'd have ever thought we were going to get.
Yeah, I think that's pretty cool.
And if you think about all of the archive footage that exists across different mediums,
whether it be movies, television, audio like this, there'll be loads of it that's just
sat there waiting to be AI remastered.
We've had digital remastering for ages now, but taking it to the next level.
And yeah, think about all of those lost episodes of Doctor Who that all of the Doctor Who fanboys
will be wanting to see in glorious AI enhanced technicolor.
Oh, I never thought about that.
We could use uncrop to turn Star Trek The Next Generation from 4-3 into widescreen.
That is a neat use case.
Could you imagine?
I would love to see its interpretation.
But yeah, that would be quite a good way of actually turning 4-3 content into 16-9, right?
I never really thought about that.
Moving swiftly on, but into a somewhat similar story, Meta has just open sourced the kings
and queens of open source Meta.
Thank you so much.
Well, what they've open sourced this time is their AI powered music generator called
MusicGen, which has been trained on over 20,000 hours of music and it can turn text descriptions
into short-witted audio clips and it can even be guided by reference audio that you give
it.
Now we've talked previously about Google having done a fair bit of work in this space,
but the key difference is Meta's tool is open source, so people can start playing with it,
improving it, expanding it a la llama.
Lama a la.
Something like that.
So that's pretty cool news as well.
Then we've got LinkedIn introduces AI powered tools for marketers.
So now you can get copy suggestions within your campaign manager when you're building
out bits and pieces like headlines and copy for your ads and for your sponsored posts
and those types of things.
And then finally, we may be getting some more chat GPT new features because there's been
a leaked screenshot which shows something called workspaces, which would allow users
to create a profile for themselves that chat GPT can readily remember.
And it also looks like it might hint at being able to upload files directly into chat GPT.
I saw this was doing the rounds in some various discord groups and on Facebook groups and
just in the AI enthusiast community.
I couldn't track the source of it though.
Have you any idea where it came from?
I just saw it doing the rounds.
Yeah, I've seen it floating like you've seen it floating.
I mean, the screen grab itself looks pretty sort of real, but then of course that wouldn't
be hard to knock up.
It would seem a weird thing to try and fake.
Like it's interesting.
And I think if you use chat GPT, you might go, hmm, I can see that that might make a
few things easier, but it's not like, you know, Donald Trump being wrestled to the ground
by 20 police officers.
You know, you can see why someone produced that fake image.
But yeah, right.
Let's get into our main stories.
And Martin, first one's with you and it's Boston Consulting Group reporting 91% of global
CMOC enhanced efficiency from generative AI for marketing.
So what was it in this story that grabbed your eyeballs?
I think it's interesting that we're starting to see the big consulting groups really make
a lot of noise about this.
We've got, I think, well, we've got several of them mentioned on this very episode because
we've got McKinsey we've already mentioned, we've got BCG and actually later on another
big player, maybe not a consulting group, but Morgan Stanley featuring as well.
This one was interesting that it was 200 CMOs surveyed from across Europe, Asia and North
America.
91% said that they are seeing enhanced efficiency from generative AI and that it had positively
impacted their work.
That was 93%.
90% have already adopted generative AI for marketing.
And overall, there was some interest in takeouts.
BCG, they said that generative AI will be key for CMOs to gain competitive advantage
through agility, innovation and responsibility.
In fact, there's a particular phrase they said, BCG research indicates that CMOs are
overwhelmingly optimistic and confident about the power of generative AI to enhance productivity
and create competitive advantage.
So overall, CMOs are on the whole using this new technology.
They're seeing efficiency gains.
I think that reflects my experience of it and yours too, which is why we do this podcast
because we're so excited by the potential of it.
The report goes on to say that while optimism is high, so 91% seeing enhanced efficiency,
the impact depends on how meaningfully and ethically the generative AI will be applied.
So CMOs can't see this as a magic bullet to enhance human judgment and creativity.
Again, I think reflecting what we say so frequently on this podcast, which is human in the loop,
you can't just outsource this and expect that AI is going to get it right every time.
So yeah, I thought there were just some interesting headlines there.
The BCG did recommend a few recommendations in there, which could be summarized as start
experimenting, which exactly reflects your experience of the conversations you were having
with people at SAMPS.
Seek transformational outcomes, establish enterprise-wide models, and implement responsible
AI guidelines.
That last point I think is critical here.
At the moment, there are something of a kind of wild west.
We see some companies banning people from using generative AI, like Samsung, for instance,
was famously reported as banning people from using chat GPT.
In fact, just before we started recording today, I saw a headline.
I haven't delved into this at all.
It was literally just a headline.
Google are advising employees not to use BARD.
For the same reason that...
Yeah, I haven't looked into it, but I'm guessing it's for the...
Well, that's a funny one to me because I'm like, well, surely you own the model and it's
your staff.
But anyway, we can dig into that one in next week's episode, I think.
But back to the point in this recommendation, implement responsible AI guidelines.
We've signposted it before, but the Marketing Artificial Intelligence Institute have published
via Creative Commons, basically the responsible AI usage manifesto.
They've published their version of it and they've said to people, look, take this as
a template that you can play around with, you can edit, you can make your own.
I would highly recommend that organizations do that because having some rules and some
guardrails around what your organization will and will not do when it comes to using AI
will be invaluable, particularly when all employees have got access to things like chat
GPT, just at their fingertips.
Yeah, I agree.
I think my big fear with this, I put a post on the socials today about it, is that we
don't just trigger an ever-growing avalanche of crap content because we can just produce
things at massive scale without really thinking about them and we just churn, churn, churn,
churn, churn because it's already getting to the point where if I need to see another
blog post on the five ways to optimize the header of a landing page, I don't need any
more of those in my life.
We'll get to the point, I suspect, where a lot of these tools, I'd choose a marketing
example there, but we'll be answering those types of practical questions perhaps in a
lot of cases.
I really hope people use this to lean into producing really good content at scale where
there's still quite a bit of time and thinking that has to go into the actual planning of
it and chat GPT and other tools just help with the execution of it once we've done it
rather than the temptation to just churn, churn, churn, churn, churn because I think
everyone's just going to be harder for any of us to get through with content if we over
use it as marketers and just turn everyone off to the content we're producing.
Yeah, and there's definite wins that in the near term organizations can have.
Just this week I was speaking to an associate and they were telling me about an organization
that they were working with, never done any content marketing in their life, literally
overnight, I think it was 20 blogs appeared on their website after they'd been introduced
to chat GPT and within a number of weeks, 25% of lift in traffic.
There are near term wins and you can see when that incentive is there, people are going
to do it, people are going to churn, churn, churn, but this is not a long term strategy.
No, no.
I think if you ask yourself the right questions, if you really understand your audience and
you think about what information that they need that they can't easily find and chat
GPT helps you formulate your ideas, package it into some coherent pros that then you edit
and tweak so it's in your voice and doesn't carry through any errors that chat GPT's
introduced or you put the extra time and effort into really expand on a point that you understand
and chat GPT clearly didn't.
I've got no problems with that.
I just, yeah, marketers in my experience ruin everything through mass overuse and I think
we got to be careful, but we shall see how that plays out.
Right.
Next story is big upgrades to chat GPT's API.
So OpenAI have released updated versions of GPT 4 and GPT 3.5 turbo with new technical
capabilities, so things like function calling, larger context windows and lower pricing.
So function calling allows developers to describe functions to the models, which can then return
JSON to call those functions.
So this enables connecting the models to external tools and APIs to be much more reliable and
easier to do.
They were very excited about that and loads of developers are very, very excited about
that.
I saw one developer saying that people had been asking for a kind of watered down version
of this and they've gone above and beyond the delivery.
So yeah, expect some really cool innovations from app developers in this domain.
Agreed.
And one would imagine much faster development because they won't have to think about clever
and complex ways to try and get their information in and out of chat GPT.
It's going to actually be much easier to do now.
Yeah, and I think actually from an end user's perspective, going back to a theme that we
bang on about, we probably won't even notice when apps are using this now because they'll
just be making all of these different API calls, connecting different tools and it'll
just be happening in the background.
Yeah.
So just expect the tools that you use every day to just extend in their functionality
and you won't even notice that it's chat GPT doing its thing in the background.
Yeah.
So GPT 3.5 turbo is getting a greater context window.
So up to 16 K context.
I think it was, I think the standard versions at like 4K.
So that's like a big leap.
You do have to pay more.
That's double the price, but you can do a lot more when you can send a lot more information.
The classic use case for you and I Martin is pushing long files like large transcripts
and other very long documents to it to maybe ask it to summarize or whatever.
The token price as well is actually still pretty cheap on particularly 3.5.
The token price is really cheap.
Less so on GPT 4, that is still a bit pricey.
Yep.
But we've got 32 K context coming to GPT 4 more beyond, I know people have been struggling
to get hold of this.
I do think they've provided it to some developers.
Very, very small amount.
I think it's one of their priorities, isn't it?
To get it rolled out very quickly in the coming weeks they're talking about.
Yeah.
I mean, and that is super cool, right?
Because that's even double the massive increase that we just described for 3.5.
And again, it will allow developers to send lots more information to have chat GPT to
do summarizations.
And we've got a workflow here at Bystratil where we summarize, we take the transcript
from this podcast and we have to cut it up into multiple chunks so we can feed it into
different tools to be able to get different summaries because it can't handle the whole
transcript because you and I talk too much, Martin.
So the transcript is too long.
Whereas with this nice big context, that would be different.
So there's a load of other stuff here as it relates to other little tweaks.
But in essence, some more functions that are going to be really, really powerful developers,
some more context so you can send more information in, in one go, which is super helpful for
a number of applications we'll talk about in a moment.
And also, in many cases, it's a bit cheaper to do certain aspects as well.
Why is this important for marketers?
So outside of all of the developer benefits, which then translate into benefits for us,
and let's be honest, a huge amount of the tools that are being produced at the moment
are a perfect fit for business people, especially marketers and sales folk, but probably marketers
above all else.
So I'm probably looking through my own very specific window on the world, but that's definitely
what I see.
The other thing is, we talked at the beginning of this podcast about where are people on
the front end of this wave going, and they're going towards building their own integrations
with tools like Zapier where they don't need to be able to code, but they've got an idea
for something that they need to be able to do.
And that means access to the OpenAI API.
That means you're pushing information into Whisper to get transcripts, or you're pushing
information into ChatGPT to do different things.
And so whenever the context window gets bigger, or the cost gets less, or there becomes wider
access to GPT-4 and its wider context window, that's cool things that those people who are
experimenting with automation tools like Zapier, and there are others available, Zapier, you
do want to sponsor the podcast, you'd be very welcome.
They can do cool things, even cooler than what they're doing now.
So if you're looking to get on the front of that wave, I think these are the types of
things that perhaps you could get excited about and start playing with.
Right, next story is EU Parliament votes through the EU AI Act.
Martin, this caught your eye this week.
What were your thoughts?
Well, we've been following this one over a number of weeks now.
We knew that the EU had brought forward the AI Act.
They're trying to be a global leader in this domain.
The EU Parliament has actually approved the draft for the AI Act.
This was on June 14th.
So now they are basically setting the negotiating position for the Parliament.
A few key features from the Act.
The law includes a ban on police use of live facial recognition in public places.
So they can't be using cameras to tag who is in a crowd.
MEPs will now negotiate with EU countries to finalise the law, which will come into
place in three years time, 2026.
The rules will regulate all sorts of different AI uses, not just marketing, like we talk
about, but everything from medical AI, drones, deepfakes, chatbots, large language models
and more.
It really takes this risk-based approach so that an AI model that is making healthcare
funding decisions for an individual will be higher risk versus an AI chatbot that tells
you when the cinema times are in your local area, things like that.
A couple of interesting observations in the Guardian reporting of this.
So the Act passed very comfortably.
I think it had 499 in favour of it and fewer than 100 against.
But there were said to be some collection of MEPs from the far right who were going
to vote against it because of the restrictions on it, such as being able to use live facial
recognition for the police.
They want more biometric surveillance.
They want more capabilities to clamp down and identify people in a crowd.
Yeah, so who would have thought that the far right would want to be overly aggressive and
fascist in their approach to managing society?
That's all I've got on that really.
I was taken by the emotional recognition tech aspect of the story for workplaces and schools
and how you're not allowed to use it and thinking, I don't really need that for this podcast
because I can see how much fun you're having, Ma, and it's written all over your face.
I don't need AI to tell me about that.
Isn't that a creepy bit of tech though?
It really makes me recoil the idea of an employer having emotion recognition technology in the
workplace.
Can you imagine this at BioStrata just coming in one morning and just doing a quick analysis
on the state of the room, just on people's facial expressions?
I know actually the technology itself is junk.
Emotional recognition and emotional detection is so culturally specific that it's similar
to the GPT detection tools that are on the market at the moment that have too many false
positives and false negatives.
It's very similar to that at the moment.
The emotional detection is not in any way commercial ready.
Cool.
Sounds like my emotional intelligence as well to be honest, so that's commercially ready.
Not ready for public consumption.
No, no, but I am almost certain that you're having a good time because you've got a big
smile on your face and I do believe it's real.
Talking about something else that may or may not be real, a little segue that as you're
going to see, dear listen, doesn't make any sense at all, is into our next news story.
There is this report here from Morgan Stanley that there aren't actually that many people
using chat GPT.
This speaks to what we were talking about a bit earlier, Martin, in terms of when you're
inside the bottle, can't read the label, when you're inside baseball, you know the inside
bits of it, but I think sometimes you can forget what the rest of the world looks like.
According to a Morgan Stanley survey of 2000 people, only 19% had used chat GPT and only
9% had used Google Bard.
The majority of people not using chat bots were unlikely to use them in the next six
months, which is interesting, right?
It's like, I haven't used them, not going to use them next.
Which is fine.
Chatbot services were mostly being used for learning about new topics.
Early adopters commonly were using chat bots for researching products, comparing prices
and shopping.
Just on that point, I did the other day.
I bought a new PC for things that people need PCs for and I've not bought a new computer,
certainly not one that had any kind of these are spec on it, a desktop at least for ages.
I had very little idea about what's the best GPU, blah, blah, blah.
I used Google Bard to give me the rundown and it was brilliant.
It was so effective.
The whole experience of it was an absolute pleasure because I had just enough knowledge
about the subject matter.
I understood, I understand things like what a processor is for and what RAM is for and
hard drives and GPUs.
But I don't know if you tell me that this one versus this one and just give me the numbers
and the names of the models, the Ryzen 7 versus the, I don't know.
I haven't a clue.
Being able to just stick in the specs for different computers and go, this is what I
need it to do, which of these is going to be the best one to do it?
It worked brilliantly.
I was very impressed with my experience there.
Sorry, that was just a little tangent about how I buy things now.
But I think that's useful because I haven't really used it for that yet.
And of course, that is eventually going to be probably what our normal search experience
looks like, especially when it comes to product exploration.
So I hadn't really thought about BARD as being a good way of testing a little bit what that
would be like.
Of course, it doesn't have a load of the other things that we expect to see in Google's generative
search experience in terms of ads on the side and all that other stuff.
But yeah, I think I'll have to have a play with that.
So yeah, I mean, this is a data point in terms of a sea of data points.
And it's a little bit like there are lies, damn lies and statistics because you can read
one report and 90% of people have tried ChatGPT.
You can have another one and only 20% odd have and don't intend to ever touch it again.
So I'm sure there's a massive aspect of who you ask, what they do, how old they are, how
tech savvy they are, etc, etc, to this.
But certainly there's still a decent chunk of the population who are not as exposed to
this as perhaps sometimes people like Martin and I might feel they are.
What do you say, Nige?
Yeah, I think that if you take the Boston Consulting Group one that we saw earlier with
the 90-91% that said they'd used it, that's a self-selected audience, isn't it?
Well, not self-selected, but it's a very specific audience that are living in this world of
tech and data.
If you're a CMO, you've got to be aware of how you're going to get that competitive advantage
and people are going AI, AI, AI, left, right and center.
So you're bound to have had a bit of a dabble with it because if you're not, your competitors
are.
If you take a snapshot of 2000 people in the world, just like a general, whoever you are,
you could be a delivery driver for UPS, you could be a primary school teacher, you could
be this, that or the other.
Your world isn't looking for that competitive advantage.
So where's the urgency to try these tools?
I'm sure you'll get that they will get to people at some point, particularly when copilot
and things like that roll out.
But yeah, it didn't come as a massive surprise to me.
I do the workshops with business owners.
Increasingly over the past 12 months, more and more people, a higher percentage of people
attending the sessions are using them.
However, I did a workshop the other week, 20 people in the room and still four of them,
even though the session was called Mastering ChatGPT and Generative AI, four of them had
never used ChatGPT.
They were looking to develop a lot over the course of that session.
I think the other thing here is, and I haven't gone that deep into the BCG report, but I
also can imagine a world in which your BCG, you assume that CMOs are all over technology
developments.
How do you think Generative AI will impact the efficiency of your organization from not
very much through to massive enhancements?
I don't see many CMOs going, sorry, Generative what?
ChatGPT what?
So I think there might even be some aspects of that, that by definition, assume some level
of knowledge that may or may not be there.
I'm sure it is there because I do think it's their job like you described, Martin, but
surveys are only as good as the people that you survey and the questions that you ask.
It probably sounds a little bit obvious, but when you actually dive deep into what happens
when you get either of those things wrong, or you accidentally bias a certain research
project in a certain way, you can pretty much prove whatever you like.
But hey, it's good to get these bits of information and just get a feel for what people are saying
and what people are seeing in the market and try and get a cross section of all these different
things.
Right, that's our stories for the week.
Our tool of the week as we mentioned is Contea, but a little bit of a special one this week.
We're going to hear directly from Sven, who's one of the co-founders of Contea, who caught
up with Martin in an interview earlier this week.
Hello Sven and welcome to Artificially Intelligent Marketing.
Thank you for joining us today.
Thank you for having me.
It's a pleasure to have you on.
We connected on LinkedIn after you introduced us to your app, which is, am I pronouncing
it right?
Contee.ai or have I got that wrong?
Is it the British love of a cup of tea that is throwing me off there?
It definitely is.
We are thinking about that quite a lot.
Obviously, we're both Germans, right, and we were searching for a name like, we're going
to name this.
We came up with the name Contea, which is like kind of a mixture between content and
EA, which is like in our understanding, like emotional intelligence or like artificial
intelligence, like a mixture of those two.
So after we throw all of those three things together, we came up with the name Contea.
We were thinking like, but how is a British speaker going to do it, like an English speaker
and pronounce this?
We didn't know, but now I know.
We actually pronounced it out, Contee.
So I did say Contee.
I actually think it would be Contee.
But Contee was the first thing that I saw when I logged into the system and you sent
me the link.
So one of the questions I had for you was, where did the name come from?
So that makes a great deal of sense.
I like the emotional intelligence side of that.
We can dig into that in a moment.
Before we get into that, tell us about the tool and what it does.
I might start by saying that both Nick, my co-founder, and I, we are both copywriters.
So we earn our bread, our money by kind of transporting ideas from people into written
text.
And when this whole JetJPT thing went down, like that was like a big move in going through
the copywriting scene, everybody was like walking, running around like headless chicken
running, oh my God, we're all going to be substituted by this AI thing, what not.
So Rick Rada took a different approach and we were thinking, all right, so you can't
stop this avalanche of technological advancements.
So the only thing you can do is try to use it.
So we started experimenting of how to use it to become better copywriters.
And this is how we eventually ended up with Conteer.
So what Conteer does is it helps you to create LinkedIn contents in up to 10 times of the
speed of just writing it.
And how it works is this, Conteer creates customized questions for you.
So for example, you are already locked in and you tried it out, it generated questions
about your specific business.
Those questions then you get into your interface and you can answer them through voicemail.
Because in our experience, talking about something is pretty easy, but writing it down, this
is the difficult part.
And this is exactly the part that Conteer takes over.
So you talk something into it, you give it your input, then our tool takes your input
and puts it into perfectly coherent and concise LinkedIn posts, which doesn't only help your
expertise in it, but and more importantly, your tonality.
So your specific words.
Because many people now use JTPT to create LinkedIn contents, but this content is just
very generic and doesn't sound like you at all.
It doesn't have your words, it doesn't have your expertise.
And with Conteer, we can help you to create content which actually sounds like you and
transports your expertise.
Yeah, I must say I tried the platform and that was one of the things that really stood
out for me was, first of all, using it was very, very simple.
You know, you hit record and then you start talking.
But in the output that it gave me, it was very reflective of the language that I used,
not kind of verbatim because in the way that I was the kind of chain of thought when you're
talking is a bit all over the place, maybe a bit rambling.
It tidied it up, but it kept the prescient points and I really liked that.
So was it your experience as a copywriter through doing the kind of background research
when you work with a client, you have to sit down, you interview them, you dig into that.
Was that what kind of led you down this path then, just thinking about that workflow?
100%.
So as a copywriter, what we try to do is we want to sound like the clients, but better.
This is basically what describes our job.
And there are many artificial intelligence tools out there, but they never really did
this job.
And I think what qualified us to do so, to create a tool which does, as you said, kind
of reflect your tonality is that we understand the foundations of copywriting and we were
able to implement those foundations of copywriting through our prompts.
So what you can't see obviously because it's all in the back ends and it's kind of like
we try to keep it secret, right?
Our prompts, because they're very complex and it's not just like write a LinkedIn post
based on this transcript.
They are huge.
There's a huge prompts where we try to put all of our expertise of copywriting into them.
Like for example, write it concise, but also try to keep it colloquial and so on and so
on.
So yeah, I think to come back to a question, if this is what, this is basically what we
try to do, like to take our job, what we do as copywriters, trying to understand who the
person is we're writing for.
We tried our best to put this into a tool, which of course we didn't succeed completely.
So like it sounds like you, but not 100%.
It gets you 80% of the way, but the last 30% you still have to edit the post a little bit.
You have to make it a little bit more personal, but we're trying to get as close to the 100%
authenticity as possible.
Yeah.
And I think that's general good advice for anyone using any generative AI tool at the
moment, right?
That they take you so far, but they're never going to get you wholly over the line.
You still need human in the loop.
And that's something we talk about on the show quite a lot.
This isn't something that we're fully outsourcing.
So from a marketing perspective then, what are the marketing use cases?
What could our listeners do with Contea that would help them in their marketing role?
So this is a very interesting question because I can't give you a clear answer on that because
we're still figuring that out or rather our customers.
So the use case that we had in mind is for like small business owners, like Lee, for
example, or like somebody who has like some kind of consulting, whatever, he doesn't have
a big team.
And that person wants to create awareness on LinkedIn, wants to create LinkedIn posts,
but is struggling with it because first of all, you have to come up with the ideas.
It is three or four a week and then you have to find the time to write them.
And this is very difficult.
So our use case that we had in mind is that those small business owners, they get the
tool, they get their questions, they reply them through voicemail and within five minutes
they have the post ready for a week.
So this was our use case and this is what we thought that people can and what people
actually can do with it.
Now however, we get a lot of messages from agency owners or other copywriters say, look,
I want to use this tool to scale my own work with my own clients.
So what we're doing right now is we're building kind of like an surface level interface, like
a kind of a login for the agencies where they have all of their clients in one interface.
So this way, basically agencies can use our tool to automatize most of their work, which
is their clients will get automatic questions.
They get a first draft.
As we said, like 80% of the way it gets you there.
But then those agencies, they can still go into those generated posts of the clients,
fit a little bit of them, change them a little bit to make them 100% authentic and then post
them.
So this is basically the second use case we are now working on.
So either you are a small business owner and you want to create LinkedIn content for yourself
or you are an agency and you want to use it to scale your work basically.
Yeah, I love that second use case.
The agency model having worked agency side and consulted on many, many B2B clients, quite
technical, working with clients in the manufacturing and engineering space.
I don't have that expertise, but I know the questions to ask so I can sit down, record
an interview with them, hand that transcript over to a copywriter and get them to extract
the detail.
Having that in an interface is lovely, which kind of takes me to one of the big talking
points that we have regularly on the podcast, which is AI and particularly generative AI
and these models are now being baked into all of the tools that we use everywhere.
The real difference maker for me in terms of what makes a tool really excel or gives
a tool maybe the best chance of surviving and thriving in the kind of tech startup SaaS
world is UX.
If you can give somebody that user experience, which there were so many copywritings over
the past couple of years since GPT-3 came out and made API access available.
Many companies launched, some of them have reached unicorn status with basically putting
a front end on to GPT-3 and DaVinci.
That's kind of what they've done.
It's not going to sustain, right?
ChatGPT has pulled the rug from under them.
You can go into ChatGPT and say, write me a meta description and it will write you a
meta description.
What you've done is interesting because you've taken multiple different AI models and technologies
and modalities.
So you've taken audio as well and put this into a very simple, easy to use workflow.
Tell us a bit about the, without giving away the secret sauce, I'm sure you're not going
to tell us what you're using and what have you.
Tell us a bit about the AI technologies that you're using and how you've kind of built
that stack.
This is very interesting and is like in, right, it gets quite a lot.
What you basically do is you're just using GPT-4 to write some copies.
The interesting thing is, so first we try to build that whole thing no codes because
we're both no developers.
So I'm a copywriter, I know about words, but I have no idea what numbers.
This is not my expertise at all.
However, my co-founder, Nico, luckily he worked as a web developer so he has some ideas about
like front-end development and stuff.
But we tried to put that whole thing, like set it up, no code, which in the beginning
we did through a five or six step process on Zapier, which is basically you have recorder
that gets recorded that goes to a transcription tool, which we changed by now to whisper.
We'll probably get into that later.
And then basically you have to open AI like GPT-4 integration and write the post.
By now that whole process is not on Zapier anymore, but on N8n, which is like an equivalent,
but it gives us more variables, like you can actually code in the tool.
So we have way more possibilities of integrations.
And the whole step, which you don't see is like from hitting records to your finished
posts is a 50 step process, which runs through in the backends.
And open AI are only two of them.
So like the whole process now is huge.
And even for me, like it's so hard kind of like to figure something out.
Like I'm just asking like a voice into Nico like, yeah, I just saw there's another step,
like what the fuck is this actually doing?
And it's like kind of going to D10, I have no idea what he's talking about.
But basically most of the functionalities right now are like kind of on own service.
For example, we tried to integrate Whispers AI into N8n and Zapier.
And I know that you talked about it in previous episodes, but we couldn't get it running.
It didn't work.
We couldn't integrate the API.
Maybe there was like a bug in the beginning and now it's possible.
But basically all of those integrations have to run over an own server.
So basically we have like the N8n process, but the recorder, for example, is an own code
solution that recorded and sends in own like encodes all the information to the API of
Whisper.
This transcription then goes to Airtable, which is basically equivalent to Excel, right?
Where all our data is stored.
And then it goes back to OpenAI's GPT-4 to write the whole thing.
But yeah, like basically it's like a huge process right now.
Yeah, it's interesting you say that because me and Paul have both played with our own
Zaps using Whisper and recording an mp3 file on your phone and it drops into Google Drive
and then it turns into it.
And I think what you've done in terms of that 50 step process and the layering in of the
copywriting expertise is ultimately that's the secret sauce, isn't it?
Like that's where the magic happens.
So where do you see this space evolving?
What's next?
How reliant are you on new models?
Are you interested to see where OpenAI goes with, you mentioned Whisper, that's clearly
one that you're using.
Are you looking at alternatives?
Are you finding that reliable?
So first of all, regarding Whisper, first we used other transcription modules.
And the good thing about our tool is if we want to change from one integration to another
one, the only thing we have to do is change the API.
So for example, if we decide that the solution from Bing now soon will be better than JetJPT
or GPT-4, this won't click to change for us.
So we tried this out.
It's not even close.
So GPT-4 still is like above all of them, like far ahead.
But we very quickly can change them to other solutions.
So how do we see this evolving?
Do you mean like with the technologies behind or you mean the whole copywriting space?
Well, I guess either or the copywriting space is one that I think listeners will be interested
in from a marketing perspective.
How much of this is really going to disrupt copywriters?
You have that experience yourself, you have the industry expertise.
What do you think copywriters should be thinking right now?
So as a roller coaster ride, so when JetJPT got launched, everybody was going crazy, was
going nuts.
Like some were saying, okay, this is the Armageddon, this is the end of copywriting.
Others are like, oh, this is fabulous.
We're going to create 10 posts in five minutes.
And I think this very quickly cooled down and realization kind of settled in like, all
right, this is not going to substitute copywriting soon because it's unprecedented.
So I think most copywriters already realize that, but you can't outsource human copywriting
just yet.
So my advice for copywriters is don't rely on GPT to write some articles because first
of all, they're going to be super generic.
This won't give you any traction, any expertise, any thought leadership on LinkedIn.
This won't build trust with the target audience.
First of all, and second of all, going forward, I'm very sure if not, if they don't ever
do that, that LinkedIn, the algorithm is going to punish you for it.
So we already know that it is possible to track copies which were generated through
AI.
They're already like open source websites where you just copy paste one post inside
and say, tell me the chance that this was created by a human being or an AI.
And it's very, very accurate.
We tried it out.
We created some posts on JTPT.
We put it into that tool.
It gave us a 99% chance that this was created by JTPT.
Because I'm very sure LinkedIn is going to implement it at one point because they have
an interest of keeping their feet interested.
And JTPT content is not interesting.
It's generic.
So it's going to like just like splash.
Like it's going to be like boring to be on LinkedIn because everybody is now creating
10 content pieces a day.
So I'm very sure LinkedIn is going to find a way to stop this from happening.
So relying on JTPT, I think is not smart for copyrights to do.
What they can do is to make their work easier.
For example, what I do with my clients, I get a transcription from a client and I put
that in JTPT and tell it like, tell me what this post is about.
What's the key message here?
So this helps me to write a copy.
But to actually write the copies, I would not advise to use JTPT.
So this is part one of the answer.
Don't rely on it, but use it.
Because if you don't start now experimenting with it and finding use cases for yourself
on how to use it to become better and quicker, others will do so.
And in the end, they will do the same work that you do, but in 10 times the speed.
So they are able to do it like in one tenth of the pricing.
And then you are in big trouble.
So I think those are the two things you have to be aware of.
Don't rely on it because LinkedIn, very sure at one point, will integrate something like
that, that it will filter out and punish your post with your generic JTPT post.
But you have to stay on track.
Otherwise you're really going to be in trouble.
No, I think they're good tips.
On the AI detection, there was an interesting article recently about OpenAI's own detection
tool.
And it's about 26% accurate.
So even the open source ones, they throw out too many false positives and false negatives.
So they miss too many and they add too many as being AI generated when they're not.
And on the flip side, they miss too many for them to be reliable.
So when I've tried them, similarly, I've had experiences where I put AI copy in and it's
99% definite.
But actually when you roll that out at scale, they're too unreliable.
You can't actually trust them.
They're actually quite bad.
So I think we're safe from that perspective for the time being.
But ultimately, this is going to be a big problem for the likes of anyone training a
large language model because soon they're going to be training on content written by
large language models and they're going to start cannibalizing their own content.
So yeah, I think they have to be aware of it and they're going to have to start thinking
about, well, I say start thinking.
They're well ahead of the thinking on this, but finding a solution to identify is going
to be interesting.
I know they tried the watermarking system as well.
And apparently, to mark the tech, basically minor edits will just get rid of the watermark
completely.
Which is also what we realized with Conteer.
Like, are you saying very interesting what you just said?
I didn't know that.
Like we just tracked it all and said 99% certainty that it was generated by AI.
When we did that with Conteer articles, it gave us like a 5% rating on it.
So like I said, no, that was written by humans just because probably there were some words
which were in those copies because they are coming from transcripts, which kind of got
rid of that watermark already.
So yeah, that's very easy to undergo.
So about time to wrap it up.
Where can people go to sign up?
The product is still in beta, isn't it?
It is still in beta, but now we've rolled it out.
Just today, we kind of opened it now for everybody for the open market.
So it's very easy to find.
You just have to go to get.conteer.ai.
Conteer with EA in the end.
There you can sign up.
It's very easy.
And this whole thing is a beta version.
So everything works already.
This is a 0% working product.
But like every two weeks, we come up with a new functionality or we tweak a little bit
to make it a little bit better.
So there are constant changes going to happen over the next weeks and months for sure.
Great.
And is that available with a one month trial?
What's the pricing of it?
This is a good question.
We thought about providing a free trial and we consciously decided not to do it.
Because of AI tools, the problem is that there are so many AI tools right now.
You could try a different AI tool every single day.
And we kind of wanted to avoid getting a lot of clients to just use it out of pure interest.
Like, oh, let's check this out, what this is doing.
But we really want to filter out.
The people we want are really people who see the benefit of it before using it.
So there is no free trial.
It is 75 euros, dollar, whatever it is, the same a month.
However, there is a 100% money back guarantee.
So after one month, you use it and you say, look, this is not doing what it is supposed
to do.
It didn't deliver.
Then you just have to contact us in support and you get the money back instantly.
Fantastic.
Very generous.
Well, thank you for joining us on the podcast this week.
And we look forward to getting hands on with the tool in the future.
Thank you very much for having me.
I'm looking forward to have further conversation maybe with you, right down the line.
So thanks very much there to Sven for coming on the podcast.
Really appreciate that.
It was a fascinating conversation with Martin there.
I learned loads more than I was expecting to, not just about the tool, which is fantastic.
So yeah, go and have a little play with Conteo and see if it can help you with some of the
things that you're trying to do in your work.
I've really enjoyed today's session.
Martin, I hope you have as well.
It was a bit of a good one.
We got into a few good bits.
Yeah, I like the way you describe it as a session, almost like therapy.
Yeah.
And maybe we've got a couple of tinnies on the go here as well.
A couple of Budweiser to get us through.
I think the listeners are thinking, yeah, I probably am going to need to turn to drink
if I'm going to listen to any more episodes of this.
This is not sponsored, but I'm currently drinking BrewDog Elvis juice, but I'm drinking the
alcohol free version, not the 6.5 or fat version.
I like it because you've got to keep it lucid when you're getting deep into the AI topics,
Martin.
Absolutely.
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Correct.
Yes.
15 episodes and he has nailed it.
And that's all it took.
Imagine what I'll learn over the next 100 episodes.
How exciting.
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Thank you so much for your time, Martin.
I've really enjoyed it.
I hope you have a great weekend and I'll see you next week.
See you next week.
Bye.
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