1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,040
Hello and welcome to Captain and the Clown podcast.

2
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,000
In this episode we discuss how to become assertive.

3
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,520
It does go for a little longer than 20 minutes. Enjoy.

4
00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,040
Why do it count backwards? I know that we're now recording.

5
00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,080
What? Hello Captain.

6
00:00:20,080 --> 00:00:24,240
Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away.

7
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:27,760
What are we going to talk about?

8
00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:32,000
I don't know, so leadership, life and everything else.

9
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:32,500
Yeah.

10
00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,760
And we're live. No, we're recording.

11
00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,000
Recording and but we're live, you and me.

12
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,680
Yes, yes, here we are.

13
00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,520
And welcome aboard.

14
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,400
You really don't like that start. Well, I'm going to keep doing it just to annoy you.

15
00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,320
Yeah, we're going to talk about assertiveness today.

16
00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:01,600
We are, we're up in the Northern Territory again in Darwin here for you.

17
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:09,280
You have a few clients you're teaching this week and one of them you're teaching how

18
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,600
to develop assertiveness. Yeah, yeah, I ran that course the other day and I love that course.

19
00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,960
It's an eye-opener for a lot of people because it certainly was an eye-opener for me.

20
00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:26,480
So Guy, I consider you very assertive. He ave you always been assertive?

21
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:31,280
Absolutely not. It's something I have actively worked on for a long, long time.

22
00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,480
I know I've joked with you in the past that I grew up a shy, sensitive, insecure little sook.

23
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,480
I'm still a sook, I cry in movies, but I'm not shy or sensitive anymore.

24
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:47,440
And I worked on my confidence and I noticed that as my confidence was growing,

25
00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:52,240
that so was my assertiveness. They're related but they're not the same thing.

26
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,280
Yeah. But it's something I know I've actively worked on myself.

27
00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,720
What about you? You're quite assertive now. Have you always been assertive?

28
00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:04,960
Oh, definitely not. I was tall and shy and awkward and definitely not assertive.

29
00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,520
I would let things go. I would step back. I would try and hide.

30
00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:10,880
Blend in? Blend in, definitely.

31
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,480
Yes, not assertive, no. Yeah, no, that was the same as me.

32
00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:21,360
I tried to blend in rather than be seen and no, I certainly had to work on my assertiveness.

33
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,520
Guy, how would you define assertiveness then?

34
00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:34,000
I think it's always useful to define what it's not first rather than what it is.

35
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:39,680
Yeah. A lot of people see assertiveness as pushy or forceful, but it's absolutely not.

36
00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,280
Is that more aggressive? It is more aggressive.

37
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:48,000
So I'll take you back to childhood, actually, now you're a parent.

38
00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,080
So I'll take you back to your kids' childhoods. Do you remember when your babies were born?

39
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:59,120
If all of their worldly needs were met, so they'd been fed, they were warm, they were content,

40
00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,360
they'd just sit there drooling on themselves, wouldn't they?

41
00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,480
Yeah. I describe that as a very passive state.

42
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,800
They're just passively accepting what's going on, right?

43
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:15,200
Yes. But when they were hungry or they're cold or scared, they change, wouldn't they?

44
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,680
Yeah. You'd hear it from them. They'd react.

45
00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:18,640
Absolutely. They'd react quite

46
00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:23,840
aloud. And now I wouldn't call that aggression, but it's almost like they're fighting for something.

47
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,720
Well, they're communicating. They're communicating in the only way they can.

48
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,240
That's right. Yeah, through a reaction.

49
00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:34,400
So passive is where you don't stick up for your rights, you sit back and you just allow the world

50
00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:39,200
to happen the way it's happening. So it's very much you're not sticking up for yourself.

51
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,920
So passive people sit back and just let the world happen to them. That was very much me growing up.

52
00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:50,240
Aggressive people stick up for themselves. They fight for their right to party.

53
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:57,280
Yeah, so they're very much, no, I'm going to get what I want and they're going to do it with force.

54
00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:06,800
And so assertiveness is different to that. Whereas assertive people stick up for themselves,

55
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,800
but they do it whilst respecting the rights of others.

56
00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,640
It's respecting your own rights, it's sticking up for your own rights whilst respecting the

57
00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:22,800
rights of others. So that's what assertiveness is. And then we've got the combination of the

58
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,080
bottom two, and I call them the bottom two because they're just reactions. To be assertive,

59
00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:31,360
you've actually got to think before you act. So passive is a reaction, assertive is a reaction.

60
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:37,360
And then you've got passive aggressive. Oh, sorry, hold on. I said, yeah, aggression is a reaction.

61
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,880
But then you've got passive aggressive. Yeah. What's your experience with passive aggressive?

62
00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:49,520
Oh, there's been some relationships, professional and personal, where there's the passive aggressive

63
00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:59,120
sort of behaviour where you are, something is asked of you, but the tone is not.

64
00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,960
There's a hidden meaning. Oh, absolutely. It's not pleasant.

65
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:08,080
No, it's not, is it? No. And I'd hate for that actually to be in the workplace as well.

66
00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,640
That could be quite toxic, I'd imagine. Yeah, it's where people have got a tone behind

67
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,640
what they're communicating, so you can actually hear that there's a different message there.

68
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,560
Yeah. Another form of passive aggressive is excluding people.

69
00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:25,120
Oh, that's almost bullying, isn't it? Yeah, isolating people from a group,

70
00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,880
the silent treatment in relationships. Oh my goodness, yes.

71
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:35,920
Or it's indirect aggression. So I'll give you an example. I love coffee and I'd often leave a

72
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,000
coffee cup on the bench because I'd be using it again later to make another coffee and I always

73
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,920
use the same cup and I'd often hear this, are you going to be using that again? And what that

74
00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,840
were actually saying to me is, can you put that thing in the dishwasher? Because I want my house

75
00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:53,520
to look like a display home just in case somebody comes through the front door and judges me based

76
00:05:53,520 --> 00:06:02,080
on my cleanliness. Or the stomping around the house after you've accidentally left a towel on the floor.

77
00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,520
Yeah, so instead of saying, hey, you left a towel on the floor, I'm just going to stomp

78
00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,920
with my feet and then you have to find out what I'm saying through my actions.

79
00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:17,280
Yes. Yeah, that's forms of passive aggressive and we're all guilty of that.

80
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:25,120
So can I share with you my experience of moving from passive to unfortunately then aggressive,

81
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,640
then passive aggressive, then ultimately to assertive? So you've had a journey.

82
00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,400
I have had a big journey. So this is something I've actively worked on. So have you ever stood

83
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,560
in the queue, Michelle? Yes. And someone's cut in? Yes. How did you feel?

84
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:42,880
Oh, seriously, I would be in jail for the things that go through my mind while smiling,

85
00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:47,280
but I'm thinking what I'm going to do to you. And you kept it inside, didn't you? I did.

86
00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:54,880
I was the same. So I would stand in a queue, somebody would cut in and I'd be fuming inside.

87
00:06:54,880 --> 00:07:00,160
But being a passive person, I wouldn't say a thing. I wouldn't stick up for myself or the other

88
00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:06,080
people in the queue. And how long do you think that stayed with me, Michelle? Well past, you'd

89
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:11,760
gone through the queue. Months, months. I'd be thinking about this. Oh, so much time later.

90
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:17,280
Because I used to always regret not being able to stick up for myself, not be able to say,

91
00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:23,280
hey, there's a queue here. And it really annoyed me because I wasn't doing what I wanted to do.

92
00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:30,560
So was this that you were still upset about someone pushing in or upset about how you reacted or

93
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:35,680
didn't react? Well, at first I sort of was maybe upset at them, but I became a little bit more

94
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:40,640
self-aware and I realized I wasn't angry at them. I was angry at myself because I didn't stick up

95
00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:46,880
for myself. I didn't say what I wanted to say. So then I thought, all right, I'm not going to let

96
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:53,040
that happen anymore. And regrettably, the next thing I did is I became passive aggressive.

97
00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,480
Normally most people turn from passive to aggressive, then passive aggressive, but no,

98
00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:01,920
I went to passive aggressive. So I remember standing in a queue once and somebody cut in

99
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:07,200
and instead of talking to them, I spoke to the person standing behind me and I said,

100
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:13,600
somebody doesn't know how to use a queue. So instead of talking to the actual person

101
00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:18,960
who's done the wrong thing, I spoke to somebody behind me and I thought I did it loud enough with

102
00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,120
the other person here, but maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but it was ridiculous.

103
00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:29,600
And have a guess how long that stayed with me. A long time also. A long time because again,

104
00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:35,440
I wasn't sticking up for myself. And at first I thought I was angry at the person who cut in,

105
00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,920
but no, ultimately I was angry at myself. I was disappointed in myself because I didn't stick up

106
00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:46,400
for myself. And then the third time, I'm now thinking, all right, I've got to stick up for

107
00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:52,160
myself. I remember this time distinctly, I was at Sydney airport and as you know, you have to line

108
00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,240
up going through security, even though you captains seem to just walk through somehow.

109
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:57,520
I do miss that.

110
00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,840
Which I think that's a great thing, get you on the plane first because you're flying I think.

111
00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:03,200
Oh no, straight to the coffee shop.

112
00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:08,720
Oh, there we go. So I was lining up getting ready to go through security and this guy

113
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,960
was dragging his partner, his lady.

114
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:14,800
Dragging his lady?

115
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:21,280
Yeah, he had her hand. They were laughing and giggling and they almost looked like they were

116
00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:28,240
newlyweds or they were quite old. And he was dragging her underneath the bollards and they

117
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,560
cut in the line. They went straight to the front of the security queue in front of a whole heap of

118
00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:36,400
us. And I don't know, there's something about being at the airport and I have read that your

119
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,160
adrenaline levels are much, much higher by the time you get to the airport, especially the

120
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:44,800
international airport. This was domestic though. And so he cut under the thing and I couldn't help

121
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:50,880
myself. It just all came out, years of holding back. I yelled out, hey, there's a queue here,

122
00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:55,920
get to the back of the queue. And so I'm aggressively, this is one of the first times

123
00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:02,240
in my entire life that I'm yelling out and my reaction was way bigger than what it needed to

124
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,960
be. Because I think this is years and years of not sticking up for myself, all coming out at once.

125
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:12,560
And I yelled out and the guy just looked at me and smirked and said, don't worry, we'll all get

126
00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:18,480
on the plane. And he kept going. And then the people around me were grumbling that, you know,

127
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,960
because this guy is cutting the line. But have a guess how long that stayed with me.

128
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:23,920
Yeah, I can imagine.

129
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:24,720
A little more.

130
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:30,800
Oh, a long time. I was furious at him because he smirked at me. But ultimately when I sat and

131
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:37,280
thought about it, I realised that I was angry at myself because I'd had an outburst. I'd let my

132
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:45,200
emotion come out. And I'm not proud of that. And so again, I did some work on myself and that seems

133
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:52,400
to be my whole life's journey is working on myself. I was lining up, actually not lining up. I was in

134
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:57,520
a chocolate shop near my home. So near where I live, there's this beautiful chocolate shop

135
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,720
and there's no line. There's no queue. It's who's next? That sort of situation.

136
00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:03,360
Yeah.

137
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,200
Now this is a Saturday and it's a very busy chocolate shop on a Saturday. And I went in there

138
00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:13,600
and I'm standing at the counter and a few people got served ahead of me that came in after me. And

139
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,640
I didn't care. It's Saturday. I'm relaxed. I don't care about queues. I'm going to get my chocolates.

140
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:24,240
I'm going to have a coffee. Life's good. And I made a decision. When she pops her head up behind

141
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,640
the counter and says, who's next? I'm going to say I am because I have been there for quite some time.

142
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:33,120
And then there was a lady to my left who had been there roughly about the same amount of time and

143
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:38,320
people had got served ahead of her, but she hadn't spoken up yet. So I'm thinking to myself,

144
00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:42,320
I'm going to speak up because I'm going to be next. And then I'm going to say to the lady

145
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,760
behind the counter that this lady next to me needs to be next because we've been here for a while.

146
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,920
Because these young girls behind the counter, they're not looking at who's coming in and when.

147
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:55,360
They're just putting chocolate in a bag. Anyway, I'm just, so the lady pops her head up, the girl

148
00:11:55,360 --> 00:12:00,720
pops her head up and says, who's next? And just as I'm about to speak, a lady who has only just

149
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:07,440
walked into the shop, barged through the crowd, come to the front and she's gone, I am. And

150
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:12,160
everyone's kind of looked at it as if to say, you just walked in. And so I couldn't help myself.

151
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:18,160
Actually, sorry, I shouldn't say I couldn't help myself. I did help myself. I looked at the girl

152
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:24,960
behind the counter and said, oh, I'm sorry, I was actually next. I've been here for quite some time.

153
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:30,080
And I looked at the lady next to me who barged in and I said, I'm so sorry, but you've only just

154
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:35,440
come in. We've all been here for quite some time. So I'm going to go next. Anyway, I looked at the

155
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,960
young girl behind the counter and she's frozen. She's looking at me and I said, oh, look, I'm so

156
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,120
sorry. I have been here for some time and this lady's only just walked in. Can I please have,

157
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,680
and I start to point out my chocolates. And when I did this, the lady next to me is now starting to

158
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:52,480
bark at me and, ah, you know, what are you doing? You know, and say, how dare you sort of treat me

159
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:58,560
like that? And so I looked at her and I said, I am sorry, but I was next. You've only just come

160
00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:03,200
into the shop. I'm going to order my chocolates and I'm going to leave. And I looked at the lady

161
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,760
behind the, the little, the, I shouldn't say the young girl behind, young lady behind the counter.

162
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:12,720
And I said, and this lady next to me on my left, she's next cause she's also been here some time.

163
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,320
So I'm so sorry. Can I please have two of those, two of those, two of those. And she's getting my

164
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:21,680
chocolates. Meanwhile, the lady who's barged in is still having a go at me. Anyway, so I got my

165
00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:25,120
chocolates, I paid for them. And I said to the, said to the lady behind the counter, I said,

166
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,440
can you please serve this lady to my left? She's been here for quite some time as well. And she's

167
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,760
looking at me going, Oh, thank you. Thank you. Cause she couldn't speak up for herself. And so

168
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:38,960
I grabbed my chocolates and I left the store, but that lady who'd barged in followed me out onto the

169
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:45,680
pavement and started to have a go at me. And I just stood there looking at her calmly and she was

170
00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:49,760
ranting and raving. Um, I can't even remember exactly what she was saying. Things like how rude,

171
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,560
how dare you, I can't believe all these sort of statements. And so I just looked at her and I said,

172
00:13:54,560 --> 00:14:00,720
I'm not quite sure what this is about because you only just walked in and I had been there for some

173
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,880
time. So I'm just going to walk away now. So I walked away and her voice was following me down

174
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,320
the street and eventually the voice disappeared and I went home and I had my chocolates and my

175
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:16,320
coffee. How long do you think that stayed with me? Um, Oh, I don't know. It's me. I probably would

176
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:21,360
have been upset that this woman was upset at me. It was gone. It disappeared. It disappeared out of

177
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:28,160
my mind and it didn't come back up until a while back, a while later, I should say, I was writing

178
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:33,600
the assertiveness course because I was, one of my clients said, guy, do you teach assertiveness?

179
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:40,160
And I said, I will in about a week. So as I always do, I go to the bookstore and I buy every book I

180
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:45,200
can and I read and read and read and read and read and then I bring in all of the other content I

181
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:50,000
had around confidence, et cetera, et cetera. And I built this workshop and while I was there, I

182
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,800
built this workshop and whilst I'm building this workshop, the chocolate story came back to me and

183
00:14:54,800 --> 00:15:00,640
I thought, I finally got there. And that was the day that I got there. I finally reached assertiveness

184
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:08,560
where I stuck up for myself whilst respecting the rights of others. I said what I mean, but I didn't

185
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:13,440
say it mean. Yeah. Yeah. I liked that. Yeah. Say what you mean, don't say it mean.

186
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:20,560
I can't tell you where that quote comes from either. It's embarrassing. Do you want to know?

187
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:25,520
Yeah. It comes from the Housewives of Beverly Hills. Oh my goodness. I wasn't watching it.

188
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:31,200
You said that it wasn't you that watched it. It wasn't me that watched it. Somebody that I used

189
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:36,080
to be in a relationship with watched it and she mentioned to me that quote and I thought,

190
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,000
oh, I love that quote. Where'd that come from? She said the Housewives of Beverly Hills. Oh,

191
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:46,400
I can't quote that joke. Anyway, anyway. So that's, so that's my journey on becoming

192
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:51,280
assertiveness. Assertiveness is where you stick up for your rights whilst respecting the rights of others.

193
00:15:54,960 --> 00:16:00,000
So Michelle, have you ever had a situation where you needed to be assertive as a pilot?

194
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:05,760
I have. I was a new first officer in an airline. I'd just passed my probation

195
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,840
and we were flying the red eye from Perth back to Sydney. Oh, the midnight horror.

196
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:16,560
Yeah. Yeah. Horrible landing just as the sun's rising. That's right. And it was regarding fuel.

197
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:22,400
So typically the captain and the first officer each come up with their own fuel calculations.

198
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,240
And you do that separately? We do. And then the captain makes the ultimate decision.

199
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,760
And my fuel was almost double that of the captain on this particular flight. So your calculations

200
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:37,200
were double his. Yeah. But I- That's a big difference. There is a big difference, but I also

201
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:45,040
understood I was fairly green and erred on the side of caution more so. However, there, when I

202
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,680
put my case forward- And why were you estimating it double the fuel?

203
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:54,640
Because there was going to be in my calculation, my observation of the significant weather chart,

204
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,160
there was going to be fog in Sydney. Oh, okay. So you're reading the weather patterns.

205
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:02,480
Yeah. Yeah. Which he did too. Okay. So then you're determining that you probably need some extra fuel

206
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:07,440
if the fog's in. Yes. Okay. Yes. Either to get somewhere else or to hold until we could do an

207
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,000
instrument approach in Sydney. So a contingency of fuel.

208
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:15,440
Yes. Yep. But the flight plan that was attached to the weather, sorry, that was attached to the

209
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:20,640
flight plan did not have any indication of fog. Okay. So you're using your experience and knowledge

210
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,600
of the weather to predict that this is possible it might happen. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And he just

211
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,880
didn't want to, he said, no, there's no requirement. It's not on the weather forecast. We're just taking

212
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:36,800
my fuel. Okay. And again, I could, I really looked at it and I thought, no, this is, I'm not

213
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,800
comfortable at all with this. And- And you're new.

214
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:46,800
I am. I am new. And I didn't want to cause waves. However, it was a safety issue. And I thought I

215
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:55,680
have to speak up. So I said, I'm not happy to go with your flight fuel. Yep. And he rightly said,

216
00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:02,960
I'm the captain. And if you're not happy with it, you can remove yourself. So a little backwards

217
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,120
and forwards in my head about, oh, I'm going to upset people, but I just don't feel right about

218
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:13,200
this. I shook his hand and removed myself from the flight. And he shook your hand back? He did.

219
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:22,400
Okay. Yeah. So I then had to call crewing and let them know. And they called back with their duty

220
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,800
pilot. And he said to me, get back on. They'll take your fuel. And I said, well, I'm actually,

221
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,280
well, he told me to take my fuel. I said, I'm actually removed myself from the aircraft.

222
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:36,800
He rang the captain. The captain said, okay, we'll take your fuel now. So you stood your ground.

223
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:41,680
I did. And you got some backup from- I did. Okay. Yep. Yeah. So the company's never going to

224
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:51,040
a safety issue. Yeah. Of course. So then, you know, the flight, we took off with the fuel that I

225
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:58,000
wanted and we, 200 miles out of Sydney, we get a hazard alert warning over the air traffic control

226
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:04,240
and there's fog. Yeah. So there was no, I told you so or anything. It was just, we had the fuel.

227
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:10,400
Yeah. And we came in behind Qantas aircraft and they were the first ones in that morning. So

228
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,440
we were the second aircraft in. It was just nice to have that reassurance that we could

229
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,920
bug out and go to another airport. So you had enough fuel to bug out if you couldn't land.

230
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:25,040
Yes. But we did hear other aircraft didn't have enough fuel and they had to land in Newcastle.

231
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:30,960
Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. So you stood up for yourself. Yes. You did it in a respectful way.

232
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,760
Yeah. You respected his rights, but you, yeah, you were assertive.

233
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:48,160
Years later, I flew with that captain and I know he respected me and my knowledge and knowing that

234
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:54,800
I would speak up if there was something that I didn't see that was wrong. And that's the thing.

235
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,640
That's the fear that you have that you're going to be damaging the relationship when you do speak

236
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:04,880
up for yourself. But as you've just pointed out, people will respect you if you do it in an assertive

237
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:10,880
way rather than an aggressive way. That's right. Yeah. Especially if it turns out to be true.

238
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,640
Yeah. Yes. Lovely story.

239
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:21,840
There were times all through the training where we were trained, encouraged, almost mandated

240
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:29,920
to be assertive. So communication is a big thing in aviation, whether you're single crew. So you're

241
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:36,400
flying by yourself. You've got passengers you need to talk to, talking to air traffic control,

242
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,840
talking to everybody, the refueler, et cetera, everyone.

243
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:48,880
So if, because it is very much a safety issue, if there's anything that is outside of the parameters

244
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:55,680
of safety or outside your parameters that you require, you must speak up. And unfortunately,

245
00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:01,680
we've seen on shows like Air Crash Investigations and it used to be Black Box series on the ABC,

246
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:09,920
where a lot of accidents and incidents in aircraft were because one or both didn't speak up.

247
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,720
So communication issues between the pilot and the first officer.

248
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:18,400
Absolutely. And it's so important. So I think I remember reading this in a book called Freakonomics.

249
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,960
Have you heard of that book? I have. You've spoken of it.

250
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:27,520
Yeah. Sorry, I have to. It's basically where the co-pilot, do they call them co-pilots and first

251
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:32,400
officers or is that interchangeable? Interchangeable. Anyway, so the first officer

252
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,120
or the co-pilot didn't have assertiveness, so therefore was quite passive culturally.

253
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:40,480
Yes. They were quite passive and so they didn't speak up when things were going wrong and that

254
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:52,880
led to a lot of crashes. Oh, look, culture is a big issue as far as assertiveness goes. I was training

255
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:58,160
some students, international students, I remember when I was coming through the ranks building hours

256
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:05,280
and I was a flight instructor. There were some students who could fly very well if you told them

257
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:13,600
exactly what to do, but if anything outside of that came in, they were unable to process it.

258
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:19,280
So I remember, recall one time I'd sent this student for solo and I was sitting in the

259
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:24,880
scare chair, which is the chair down next to the runway and looking at my student thinking,

260
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:32,880
okay, just doing one circuit, so a takeoff, upwind, crosswind, downwind, base and final to land and

261
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:38,080
then pick me up. That was the instruction. He knew what to do, except every time he came,

262
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:44,880
turned onto final, he then went around, so he didn't land. He continued upwind, climbed up again.

263
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:50,800
Are you in communication with him? I'm not. I didn't have a radio with me, but every time,

264
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:55,680
so he did this three times and I'm starting to get a bit worried here. I'm proud of him for

265
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:03,360
feeling that he wasn't in a good place to land, so rather than, the safe thing is to stay in the air,

266
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:10,080
but I'm now thinking, okay, something's happening here. So I rang on my mobile,

267
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:15,840
the control tower and asked, what's happening with that aircraft, my student's first solo,

268
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:24,320
which they knew and they said, we're asking him to follow the Cherokee, which is a Piper aircraft,

269
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:30,880
a nickname for a Piper aircraft, a Cherokee and he said that he couldn't see it. Now, actually,

270
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:36,320
sorry, he didn't say he couldn't see it. He just didn't answer and then his next

271
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:43,280
communication would be going around. So that was all that he was saying, going around,

272
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:48,000
going around, which is when he'd climb up again, upwind and continue back in the circuit.

273
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:56,000
I did ask the tower, can you please make him land, give him clearance to land and so,

274
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:02,720
and keep other traffic away from him. He did land on that circuit and pick me up,

275
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:07,520
we went back to the flying school and then we sat down and debriefed and I said to him,

276
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:13,040
what was the problem? Why did you not feel that you could land on those? And he said,

277
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:21,200
they kept asking me to follow the Cherokee. And rather than say he couldn't see it or he

278
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,960
didn't know what they were talking about, he just didn't say.

279
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,000
He didn't speak up, he didn't have the assertiveness to speak up.

280
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:34,240
That's right. So yeah, rather than, and he was trying to say face and he didn't feel confident

281
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:40,880
in speaking up. So that was great. That was a good lesson for me as well. So as far as the cultural

282
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:50,960
differences, language also, and yeah, just how to deal with training or developing assertiveness

283
00:24:50,960 --> 00:25:00,880
in my students when I was training. We are very lucky in Australia that our culture

284
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:09,600
allows us to speak up and become assertive and do it within guidelines. So whereas other cultures,

285
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:17,760
as we've discussed, do not. Yeah. On culture, I've had an experience as a trainer that I often get

286
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:23,280
asked to go overseas and train large corporates around the world. And I've been to some cultures

287
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:28,320
where education is very different from an assertive perspective. So in Australia, if I say something

288
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,760
and one of my students doesn't understand what I'm saying, they'll just say, so can you explain

289
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,920
that? Can you go a bit deeper? I'll ask a question, does that make sense? And if it doesn't, they'll

290
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,640
go, no, not really. And I'll explain it again. And I ask a lot of questions. And so in Australia,

291
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,080
when I'm training, I'm very interactive with the audience because that's the best way for people

292
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:49,760
to learn. You ask questions, they answer them, they're engaged, their hippocampus is stimulated,

293
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,800
which is the librarian of the brain. But I go to some countries to train and they sit there.

294
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,360
And they do not interact with me because that's their culture. Their culture is

295
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,520
the opposite of being assertive. So if they don't know the answer to something,

296
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,520
they won't ask me for more information. So I often have to spend a lot of time saying, hey,

297
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,240
this is the way I train, I'm going to ask questions, and I'm going to ask you to guess at the answers

298
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,240
because this is the way your brain will actually remember things. But quite often they'll sit there,

299
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,760
they'll nod their head as if they're getting it, but they don't get it. And they don't have

300
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,640
the culture. And I've found out what it is. They're actually being very respectful, probably too

301
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:33,680
respectful. But if I ask a question and they don't know the answer, the reason why they won't say,

302
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:39,360
I don't know, is because I guess saving face. But the other reason why they won't answer is if they

303
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:43,840
don't know the answer, it's the same as them saying to me that I'm a bad trainer. So it's

304
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:51,200
disrespectful to me, which I found lovely, respectful, but from a learning perspective,

305
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,480
it's too respectful. I think some cultures can go too far.

306
00:26:54,480 --> 00:27:00,480
I've seen your courses, I've sat in some of your courses, and I see that the feedback and the

307
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,640
interaction actually fuels you as well. Oh, it does. Yeah. If I'm not getting anything

308
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,560
back from the audience, it's, well, it's a big energy drain out of me. It's like,

309
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,880
I don't like just pushing information at people. I like asking questions, getting them to think,

310
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,040
bring in their knowledge, bring in their context. And then when you deliver the new information,

311
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:22,960
that's how our brain learns. Our brain doesn't learn through rote learning. It's not designed

312
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,600
to just learn through rote learning because you're not learning how to think. And so

313
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,880
So our times tables when we were young. Oh, no, that was bad. Repeat that a thousand

314
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:38,480
times and you will have it. Yeah. So culturally assertiveness is different.

315
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:51,440
So guys, circling back to passiveness and aggression and passive aggressiveness,

316
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:59,360
how does that relate to confidence? So as we spoke about in our other podcast on confidence,

317
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:03,680
confidence is when you stop fearing the judgment of other people. So they're all very closely

318
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:09,040
related to confidence. So when you're passive, like I was as a young man, it's because I feared

319
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,800
other people's judgment. I didn't speak up for myself because I was fearing other people.

320
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,800
And so passiveness is very closely related to insecurity. You don't speak up for yourself,

321
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,920
because you're fearing whatever the consequences are in that situation.

322
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:30,000
Aggressiveness. I guess you could say an aggressive person has started to be a bit

323
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,960
more confident because they're confident enough to speak up for themselves. But

324
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,760
there's also an insecurity there. It's like they can't control their emotions. They're getting

325
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:44,960
angry. They're letting their anger come out. And they're also devoid of empathy and compassion for

326
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:50,640
other people, because we all have a right to not be yelled at, not to have somebody unleashing

327
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:58,240
their emotional tirades at us. And so a person who is being aggressive, it might appear as

328
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,480
more confident, but really they're not as confident as what they could be, because

329
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:11,600
they don't need to suppress and emotionally abuse other people. And then

330
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,400
moving to passive aggressive. Now passive aggressive kind of appears a little bit more

331
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,840
respectful, I guess, because you're holding the aggression back. But again, it's somebody who is

332
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,320
indirectly aggressive, and therefore that's related to insecurity as well. They don't have

333
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:32,320
confidence. And so ultimately, assertive people are confident. They don't fear the judgment of

334
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,400
other people when they're speaking up for themselves, but they've also got a healthy dose of

335
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:41,920
respect and empathy for others, which means that they can say what they want to say,

336
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:49,520
and respect the other person at the same time. And that comes from a deep seated level of confidence

337
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:56,880
and empathy. Because when you're a confident person, you will also start to develop empathy

338
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:04,960
for others because it moves away from arrogance. There's also a lot of people who are more

339
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:10,400
confident. There's also, I'd imagine that there needs to be a feeling of psychological safety,

340
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:16,320
because if somebody is being assertive, the whilst you said there's confidence, and it's not fearing

341
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:23,040
the judgment of others, there's also if it's in a career or a work situation, that there is no

342
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:30,000
recourse. So by speaking up, and potentially what you were talking about with some of these other

343
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:36,640
carriers that you read in that book that you were talking about, the fact that

344
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:45,200
if they spoke up and were assertive about something that was wrong, that potentially they would lose

345
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:52,000
their job. Yeah. And you see that a lot in workplaces where people don't speak up because

346
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:57,520
they fear the consequences. They might have a manager who's a bit of a tyrant and has an ego,

347
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:05,040
and is also very insecure. So they tend to micromanage. They tend to not give people a

348
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,920
voice, which then, like you said before, would lead to a lack of psychological safety in that

349
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,800
sort of situation. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess ultimately we should all be aiming for assertiveness.

350
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:20,320
We should all be aiming to be able to stick up for ourselves whilst to respect the rights of others.

351
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:27,920
And it's a conscious thing. It takes time. It took me years to develop assertiveness. It took

352
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:36,560
practice. It took overcoming fears. And I coined a term many years ago called life university. I think

353
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:41,680
life is, I think we're going to have a whole podcast on this topic, but life is going to

354
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:48,080
throw challenges at you. And at the end of every day, I like to sit down and think about who I was

355
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:56,320
on that day, how I behaved and how I reacted. So did I behave in an assertive way? Did I behave

356
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,960
in an aggressive way? Was I passive aggressive? Was I passive? Did I sit back? And not every

357
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:07,680
situation is going to require assertiveness. We had a meal the other day. Do you recall the

358
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:15,600
the steak meal that we had the other day? Oh yes. Yeah. It wasn't the best. It wasn't as yours.

359
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:21,520
Mine was perfect. You had this steak and it was absolutely sensational. I think my steak

360
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:28,160
have even cost more. And it came out and it was the toughest, leatheriest, most awful steak I've

361
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,400
ever had. But we both sat there and looked at each other and decided, no, we're not going to say

362
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:37,520
anything during the meal. And can you remember why we said that? Because we were scared of what the

363
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,560
chef would do to the meal. Yeah. Because we could have been assertive in that. I could have been

364
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,040
assertive in that moment. I could have said to the young waitress, I could have said, hey, I'm really

365
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:53,440
sorry, this steak, it's beyond well done. I like medium rare steak and it's beyond well done.

366
00:32:54,320 --> 00:33:00,240
And it's almost impossible to cut through. I could have said that politely to her. But the problem is

367
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:05,040
when she goes back into the kitchen, we don't know what her translation is going to be to the chef,

368
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:11,360
who then from our experiences and knowledge about the some people who work in the food industry,

369
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:17,520
not all, but they tend to, they can be a little bit, I guess, what's the word, hurt?

370
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:25,280
Yeah, I worked in a restaurant when I was at uni and yeah, anyone who dared to send anything back,

371
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,560
what the chefs did, it was disgusting. Okay, yeah. So there are times to be assertive,

372
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,880
there are times to be passive. Sometimes you need to let life just

373
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:41,120
pick your battles. I think it's pick your battles. Yeah, pick your time. But ultimately,

374
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,360
it's something we should all be aiming for, to be assertive so that we can stick up for ourselves,

375
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,240
we can stick up for our rights whilst respecting the rights of others.

376
00:33:53,760 --> 00:34:00,800
Fantastic. So what you are saying as a tip for anybody who's wanting to become more assertive or

377
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:08,240
develop their assertiveness is to do that life university. So to, at the end of the day, rehash

378
00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:13,280
and then maybe rewrite how you did it? Yeah, rewrite. That's a great term. So you look at

379
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:17,840
how you behaved during the day, identify the areas where you possibly weren't assertive,

380
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,440
you didn't stick up for yourself, or maybe you were aggressive, maybe you were passive aggressive,

381
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:26,160
whatever it was, and rewrite it in your head so that next time you're in that same situation,

382
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,960
you improve. So back when I was in that queue and people were jumping in and I became aggressive,

383
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:36,240
then passive aggressive, that wasn't based on me planning, that was based on me being angry, angry

384
00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:42,240
that I didn't stick up for myself. But over time, I developed this little, I guess, routine that at

385
00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:46,400
the end of every day, I look through the day, how did I go today? Was I the sort of person I want to

386
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:53,920
be? Was I assertive? Was I respectful? And I plan for what I will do in the same situation,

387
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,080
if that same situation happens again in the future.

388
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:08,800
Probably about 10 years ago, there was an incident into an Asian port and it was an Asian carrier.

389
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:18,880
The first officer was this tiny girl and the captain was a very senior, well-respected pilot

390
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:27,360
and she was flying with him and on final approach to land, he had a heart attack and his hands were

391
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:34,640
clasped on the throttles and they were going below glide slope and she did the calls,

392
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:41,360
but he was not responding and he couldn't let go of the thrust levers and control column.

393
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,040
And she wouldn't have known that, I guess.

394
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:49,760
Well, she was looking at him and the only way, and kudos to her, she's amazing, this girl,

395
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:56,400
and I hope she's still flying. She got her pen out of her pocket and stabbed the back of his hand

396
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:02,880
and just the natural reaction was for him to unclasp and then she was able to take control.

397
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:03,760
Oh, wow.

398
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:04,240
I know.

399
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,160
So he's having a heart attack, he's gripping the control.

400
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:08,800
Yes.

401
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,120
I guess she's recognised that something's wrong.

402
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,680
Yeah, well, he just wouldn't listen or respond.

403
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,240
He wouldn't respond. So she stabs him with her pen.

404
00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:16,800
That's right.

405
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,560
And saves everyone on the plane.

406
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:25,200
That's right, but imagine how much it would have gone against her whole upbringing to do that.

407
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:30,800
Not only imply that there was disrespect that he didn't know what he was doing,

408
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,000
but to harm him in order to save everyone.

409
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,760
Oh, kudos to her. Could you imagine? Yeah, wow, wow.

410
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,000
Being on that plane and not knowing that up the front there's a

411
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,600
Was she an experienced pilot?

412
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:44,560
No, she was only

413
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:51,440
So a young female pilot in a culture where you need to respect people with experience.

414
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,120
She's grabbed a pen, stabbed him in the back of his hand so that he'd release the column

415
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:56,240
and then she could take over.

416
00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:56,800
Yes.

417
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:01,200
What a wonderful story about assertiveness to finish this podcast.

418
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:01,680
Yes.

419
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:02,960
Thank you for sharing, Michelle.

420
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:07,440
Fantastic.

421
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,200
Awesome. I enjoyed that podcast.

422
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,600
That was good. It's a little longer than our normal ones.

423
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:11,920
Yes.

424
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,280
But as you were reminded, people can just pause.

425
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,760
Yes. Okay, so how do we finish these off again?

426
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,720
We think the world will be a better place when there's more dogs.

427
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:24,240
That's it and great coffee.

428
00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:24,960
And great coffee.

429
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,120
And Bollinger still hasn't contacted us for that.

430
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,640
Bollinger, look, we're waiting. We need a sponsor and we chose you.

431
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,600
Okay, take care, everyone. See you next time.

432
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:36,100
Bye.

433
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:37,760
Well, that was fun.

434
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,760
That was fun.

435
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:40,960
You're such a clown.

436
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,080
The clown.

437
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:42,960
Lady cat.

438
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,480
And who's going to listen to this?

439
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:47,440
Maybe our mums.

440
00:37:47,440 --> 00:38:08,480
Thanks, mom.