Why did it count backwards?
Oh no, we're now recording.
What? Hello Captain.
Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away.
What are we going to talk about?
I don't know. Leadership, life and everything else.
Okay, we're live.
Hey, okay. Hello everybody, welcome to episode one. My name is Michelle Huntington.
And I'm Guy Newman.
Welcome to Captain and the Clown, life, leadership and everything else.
So why are we calling this Captain and the Clown?
Well the clown's obvious, it's you, based on your dead jokes.
Yeah, they're not good. And Captain, because you were an airline captain.
Correct, two airlines actually.
Yes, yes. So okay, we've got that part sorted, so why life?
Life, leadership and everything else, why the life bit?
Well when we met, you started to tell me about some of your experiences and I
joked that I didn't think anyone could have that many experiences in one lifetime.
And I also said that you probably should never print out your CV,
because you'd probably take up half the Amazon in paper.
Well yours is up there with mine.
It literally is.
It has diverse experiences.
Yes, and leadership.
Leadership, well I teach leadership and I speak about leadership,
so that's my area of passion I guess.
Yes, and I've done a little bit of leadership as an airline captain there.
Oh you have a lot of leadership training as an airline captain,
I think you're selling yourself a bit short there.
That's right.
Yeah, so we're both passionate about that topic and everything else because...
Well we don't really want to limit ourselves.
So that covers everything, I think we're fine there.
So what's this episode going to be about?
Well I think if we get to know more about each other,
then the listeners will also get to know more about us, and yeah we'll see how it goes.
And we are going to be spending a lot of time together doing these podcasts,
so it'll be good to know more about you and to check to see if all of those
items on your CV are actually true.
Yeah that's right.
I can't imagine that anyone could have that number of experiences in one lifetime.
There may be a couple of little fortune items in there.
All right, now let's see if we can find out which ones those are.
And because it's the first podcast that we're doing,
I thought we should probably celebrate.
So I don't think the listeners would mind if we participate in a little celebration
drink, and I've chosen Bollinger because I think in the first podcast we may as well celebrate
and enjoy this journey of getting to know each other, whoop-a, and share some stories.
So I asked you to write down a list of things that we could talk about, your experiences.
Yes and I asked you to also write down a list.
And I don't know if the listeners can hear those bubbles.
Can you hear them?
We'll do some ASMR and we'll put it nice and close to the microphone.
Yes, yes, yes.
There we go.
It's sounding good.
So that's the sound of Bollinger if you're listening from home.
Yes.
So this podcast is brought to you by Bollinger, our wishful sponsor.
Yeah, well yes, if you want to get in touch it's captainandtheclownatgmail.com at the moment.
Well we're having to do quite a few of these so if we're having a Bollinger every single
episode it's going to be a fun journey or we might end up in AA.
Cheers, cheers.
Here's to episode number one.
Episode number one, off we go.
So we're going to start with airline captain.
So you mentioned you were an airline captain.
How did you get to be an airline captain?
I believe you were on a flight on the weekend that reminded you of the story.
Yeah, so I flew down to Melbourne on the weekend.
We flew down to Melbourne on the weekend and the captain who was captaining the aircraft
at the time it reminded me of when I was, I was the first officer for nine years before
my number came up as far as insinuity and I could start or commence training to become a captain
and he had said to me, I remember it was my first flight in, sorry my last flight as a first officer
into Hamilton Island and we were coming around the corner and as we were going on to approach
to land he mentioned just off the cuff I don't think you're ready to be a captain.
Now I've been studying for months, years to become a captain.
I knew all the textbooks, I knew everything about the aircraft, the engines, the airspace,
the rules, the regulations, you name it, I knew it and for him to say this to me,
especially as we were coming into land it threw me.
So this is the end of all of your study?
Well that's right, I hadn't actually commenced the training part yet but I had been preparing
for years and so yeah it did throw me and once we landed and we we shut down and everything we were
waiting for passengers I asked him why don't you think I'm ready to be a captain because I'm
thinking is there something that's obviously deficient in my knowledge, in how I hold myself,
carry myself operationally etc and he said to me, no it's just I don't think women make good captains.
Oh no because it's so weird that women are able and capable to fly airplanes.
That's right, weird engine arsehole basically.
It sounds like it but you obviously proved him wrong.
That's right yes I continued despite his opinion yes and so did other women in the airline.
Was that common that you were held back by the male of the genders?
No, no it was actually, look I'm sure there was opinion out there that women all myself
weren't going to be or weren't a particularly great captain because of our gender however it
wasn't obvious except for the odd occasion when these weird folk mentioned it.
That does sound weird yes well I'm glad you pushed through and ended up being a pilot because I
remember sitting on a plane one day and hearing the captain announce that she was ready to take
off and I recall it was you. I remember when we first started to talk about our histories that
you mentioned that you were a captain I remember hearing your name many times on my flights to
Adelaide. I hope it was a nice flight. I remember it being a very smooth landing.
Oh good, now you're obviously that's the captain part of the name, so the clown part, you were a
clown. That was at the beginning of your career. Yes, not my clowning career but my career.
Yeah when I was a kid I was a clown in a circus. I often joke it wasn't Cirque du Soleil, it was
the flying. I've heard that joke before. It's not a good joke. It's a small children's circus,
although not so small now in Aubrey Wodonga where I did high school. It was called the Flying Fruit
Fly Circus and when we moved to Aubrey and my brother and I joined the circus and I became a
clown. I was also a juggler, a unicycler, an acrobat and I got to do that for six years and
whilst we were in high school we were also in the circus and during holidays we used to travel
around the world performing and we used to wear lycra before lycra was fashionable with our...
A mammal before?
Yeah we were a mammal yes and you might have to explain what mammal means.
Middle-aged man in lycra except you weren't middle-aged.
No, we were children and so we used to wear bright sparklies, lycra outfits and do all sorts of...
Our tagline in the Flying Fruit Fly Circus was ordinary kids doing extraordinary things and
I got to do that for six years when I was in high school. That was my start and when I was 15 they
asked me to be a trainer in the circus and teach the other kids and so that's where I
developed a passion for teaching other people.
Oh wow I feel very very inadequate now because I think when I was 15, 16 I was more concerned
about boys than anything else.
I was also very concerned about girls that's why I joined the circus because
my very first ever kiss was from a girl that was in that circus so I joined the circus hoping for
another one. Didn't end up getting another kiss but anyway had a lot of great experiences as a clown
and a juggler. Now I believe you were also an instructor.
Yeah so well I'm learning well after I learned to fly I we needed to...
In order to join the airlines, I'll start from the beginning, in order to join the airlines which was
my goal, I needed to have a certain amount of hours flying so how you get those hours there
are like quite a few different ways. You can either teach other pilots to fly which is weird
in itself that you're just a new pilot and then you're teaching other people who have never flown
to fly. There was you could do mustering, you could do...
Did you ever do mustering?
I've done the qualifications.
Okay.
But no I never mustered. You could do ferry flying, you could do outback flying.
Flying ferries.
Yes flying ferries, no.
Okay so I did do ferry flying and that's where I brought a number of aircraft, single engine
aircraft one at a time, from America was where I picked them up from and New Zealand and I would
island hop so started wherever they were picked up in America and then I would whichever town or
airport I got them from I would do proving flights so five or so hours just working out
fuel consumption, oil consumption, making sure it was serviceable and then I would set off once
the winds were correct and...
So I'm picturing you by yourself in a very small plane leaving America and flying back to Australia
am I hopping along islands as we go?
Correct, yes that's what I did. Some call me brave, some call me stupid but...
Well I've got other words that's that would be but I don't think you've got any...
That's that's that's ballsy that's...
By yourself in a single engine aircraft hopping from island to island, what's a small plane?
Yeah just a six cylinder plane usually four seats but the seats would be removed
so I could fit in a fuel bladder which usually contained about 15 hours worth of fuel
and that's avgas and...
So you're in a plane with a big bladder of avgas?
Basically yeah a fuel with wings that was me.
Did that not make the plane heavy?
It did very heavy, overweight and I was allowed to be a certain percentage overweight however
if I was only that percentage overweight I would not make it to the next island so there was some
creative accounting and yeah I was able to make it to the island but it did make for interesting
times because you were overweight so therefore you required a very long runway and it took a long time
to climb because you needed to keep the engine cool and yeah there were some interesting times.
Okay so you're you're up in the air with a big bladder of fuel behind you in a tiny little aircraft
I'm presuming no cabin service?
No no and well after the first time I actually realized that I needed to fly in a skirt like
a flowy skirt because going to the toilet there's no toilet on board so...
That was going to be my next question.
So in order to you know stay hydrated I'd drink water I'd drink tea and I would need to go to the
bathroom eventually so yeah I'd have to be creative and if you had to pull down trousers it just it
wasn't viable you couldn't do it so yeah I would I would wear a skirt and I'd use a product called
a travel john where you fit it to yourself and it's got absorbent beads a bit like a nappy I
didn't wear an adult diaper though and you're not a NASA astronaut no but I yeah I did get creative
and yeah the longest the longest leg of most of my ferry flying was 13 and a half hours or of all
of my ferries so sitting down 13 and a half hours with a big bladder of fuel behind you using a
travel john yes yeah I'm not quite sure if this is ballsy stupid or brave I mean I think it's
definitely brave that's that's certainly not something that I would entertain doing that's
that's incredible and all of this was to to clock up the hours to yeah so from the west coast of
the US to Sydney basically was 56 hours of flying time now that wasn't done all at once and I
had a rule I wouldn't fly at night time because if ultimately is that the plane behind you now
you're like flying overhead I can I can hear an aeroplane outside the studio that's right that's
what I dreamed of I'm one of those people that tragic aero sexual that looks up every time an
aircraft flies over is that a sab that's been by it could have been a sab but I um yeah I would I
I would island hop so the longest being 13 and a half hours and the shortest being from on in a
single engine aeroplane from uh Lord Howe correction from Norfolk to Lord Howe was five and a half hours
so that was the shortest leg that I that I did okay yeah yes well kudos to you that's that's
that's very very brave I couldn't even imagine being by myself in a single engine aircraft
hopping across islands across the Pacific Ocean that's oh watching every hour tick by slowly
the things you've done to become a pilot that's it that's extraordinary yeah and I believe you
were also a corporate pilot at one point I was I got to I was very fortunate so after I did
instructing taught other pilots to fly I and did the ferry flying I then graduated to um being
able to fly small corporate jets and there were some great times there you know you had
business people who had properties in outback Queensland in wa in Tasmania and I would fly them
around as their private pilot in their private aircraft and yeah I got to see lots of the country
that a lot of people have never seen and to do it all by air was amazing um but yeah there were some
interesting characters definitely interesting characters and all of this was letting you to
have enough miles to become an airline captain yeah enough hours so finally racked up those hours and
then yeah went into the airlines which surprisingly was easier than all of the flying I'd done
previously by myself because there was rather than when something went wrong looking you know
turning to your left and only seeing your own reflection you could turn to your left or right
depending on which seat you were in and there was someone else there smiling or swearing with you
you wouldn't need to be quite as brave as having a big bladder of fuel behind you you've got a
first officer and a captain that's right first officer and captain and and we had cabin crew
very happy to be doing a podcast with a with a pilot because when we fly around the world to
do this podcast you know if anything goes wrong with the plane I know who I can turn to
having flown with me you know as a passenger you know how painful that is yeah you do narrate your
your trips but that's that's makes the makes the flight interesting yeah okay after being a circus
clown you then went on and did your own training and many hours to become an olympian
yes as well as well as being in the circus I also played sport my brother and I were sports
fanatics and and I ended up choosing water polo in high school one of my very best friends
introduced me to the sport he was one of my teachers at high school and he asked if anyone
would be interested in taking up water polo at high school and being a sports nut I put my hand
up and I could swim because I was always surrounded by water growing up and actually I was born on a
tropical island with a pacific island as my backyard so water was always around me and
I actually I'm going to interject there I know that island because I landed there when I was
throwing aircraft here I was trying to impress you with where I was born but you actually landed
an aircraft a single engine aircraft that you flew all by yourself from America to the island that
I just happened to be born on so yeah so I thought that was impressive my part of our
our story like when I was telling you about where I was born and you said yeah I've flown there
I've landed there sorry yeah that's okay that's okay yeah so waters I've always been surrounded
by water so I ended up playing water polo and in high school and then after high school I was lucky
enough to get a scholarship then to the Australian Institute of Sport and I lived there for 12 years
and I ended up going to the Olympics in 1992 so yes an olympian and that's I think where I developed
the real passion for for things like leadership which is one of the topics of this podcast or the
future podcast after the audience gets to know who we are yeah so I had the privilege of representing
Australia and traveling around the world many times and to many countries and yeah representing
our great country wow the drive and focus to get to the Olympics I imagine it would have been a
few early mornings yeah we woke up very early most mornings especially in a cold Canberra in
the middle of winter I didn't know that I looked this up after I'd left Canberra that the coldest
temperature when I was living there was minus 10 degrees and we used to get up very early and go
and jump into a walk across frozen grass and jump into a cold pool which was quite a motivational
challenge I guess but being surrounded by lots of other very motivated athletes in lots of different
sports was something that certainly helps you when you're surrounded by motivated people you
can't help but be motivated yourself and yeah we worked very hard and trained long hours in the
pool and the gym and and did everything we could to become the best that we could and yeah it's a
fantastic experience oh that's what it would have been yeah yeah no definitely and I think one of the things I love about
playing water polo is the fact that it's primarily played in Europe so we got to we got to travel
across to Europe many times and to America and and and play against all of the different nations and
it was certainly a fantastic start to my life to experience all of that and see the world and do it
as a competitive sports person I remember one trip going to Hungary and being on Margaret Island one
of the most beautiful pools in the world and the change rooms are inside and you swim through a
tunnel outside and it's freezing cold outside but the pool's heated and I remember it being so cold
outside and so warm in the pool that I was in the goals I was a goalkeeper in water polo and I was
sitting in the goals but I couldn't see the goals at the other end of the field because of the steam
and the coming off the pool because it was freezing outside but half the pools were indoors half were
outdoors I love the outdoor ones they were beautiful some some gorgeous places were played
around the world in Spain and in Hungary and Germany and many other many other Italy many other
countries that would have been amazing it was a fantastic experience and I I feel privileged
that I was able to do it and represent the country and and go overseas and wear the green and gold
hmm yes very impressive so I'm going to go back to this list of things that you've done in your
life there's a word here Yurandali Yurandali yes no that was so I prior to becoming an airline
captain I trained straight out of school I went to art school and actually that's a funny story
so when I was young I... I'm going to cut that bit that's okay no I was just looking at your long long list of things that you've done in your life
I mean my eyes just go wide every time I look at this list anyway keep going so you studied art
you studied art we're not cutting that bit out I interrupted your story by what by looking at the list of things that you're going to be talking about and I'm still amazed at this list
this is one person's list anyways to go back to art yeah but you yeah so when I was little I my dad joined the AAF and we were very fortunate in the fact that we lived in Malaysia in Penang and back in the day back in the 70s that gives away my age
OH&S kind of didn't exist as it does today and as dad's eldest child one of two daughters I became like the son that he never had and I used to go to work with him and hang around aircraft and they didn't care if here I was at you know seven eight year old child
going underneath aircraft that were jacked up and walking around aircraft on the tarmac it was basically you know something happened to you well you're an idiot for letting it happen to you but I also was fortunate that I could go up in a Mirage trainer
you went up in a Mirage
I did but it was a two-seater trainer yeah and
but still in Mirage
I know I know and they yeah so they um took me up and I you know pulled some negative G's and tried to make me throw up
that's something we used to do on our BMX bike when I was a kid I'm sure it's different in a fighter plane
and um no we didn't fire any weapons but it was it was a lot of fun and you know think extreme roller coaster rides but and then I was um how old were you at this stage you're eight years of age and you're sitting in a
that's right okay yeah and then I also went up in Hercules, Caribou, Chinooks because that what is what was there at Butterworth and they often took us up as kids because we'd win colouring in competitions now I would have loved at the time to have won a bike or something like that
but no we got to go up in another aircraft I won a pencil case and you got a flight in a fighter plane I got many flights because I had a thing for drawing and painting so I um would go up in these flights and I'd see these guys these pilots who were like demigods
and they were doing the same thing over and over and and in my um childish innocence I suppose I saw them and thought what's so special about them why are they being paid more why do you know all the girls like these guys why do the others respect them when all they're doing are the same things and it looked pretty easy
so I thought I'm going to be a pilot now my parents didn't discourage me at all they didn't tell me that there would be any issue with that and whether that was because I was a child and they didn't want to poo poo my dreams but we came back to Australia and then in high school I you know
was doing all the things and my my careers advisor told me no there's no way you're going to be a pilot because ladies that's not a career option for a lady and also if I wanted to be a pilot I would need to wear a tampon every time I flew
you were told that
and I went to a self-dial
oh my goodness I know so yeah the reason for the tampons is because the you know women aren't anatomically correct for flying and that our insides would come out and so I and what is this careers advisor doing right now I don't know I don't know
I went the another option and did art and so you listen to it I did I listened to it so you had okay too much and was this careers advisor a man no it was a lady a lady giving a hello okay and it actually wasn't that long ago well I suppose it was
I'd like to think it wasn't that long ago and then so I went and did art at university and that was a lot of fun and yeah I then after graduating moved out to the country and I applied for a role as a coordinator for an Aboriginal corporation called Yurandali
now I had been I'd been art trained I had a degree in art and I had majored in Aboriginal art in in one semester and so that's not majoring
what are we cutting out now I'll interject while Michelle you know she's showing me this arm cross saying we'll cut that out we'll cut that I don't think we'll cut that we don't need to cut that out and I'll just actually mention that not only did you did you study art you're an acclaimed artist you have a couple of pieces right now on display in exhibitions
anyway back to your story now that you've composed yourself
so yeah but I had studied Aboriginal art at university and so I thought I was very qualified to go to Moree and I was living outside of Moree about an hour and a half out of Moree at 110 kilometres an hour and I won the role
so I was teaching the some population of Moree Aboriginal population who were involved in this corporation on traditional techniques and also getting them contracts and so we actually well I got them a contract to do the artwork that was incorporated on the bedding for the 2000 Olympics
oh fantastic yeah and I'd go around and organise exhibitions for them and they um yeah so that that was a lot of fun that was for a couple of years yeah and then I moved to the Big Smoke of Narrabri
really really but you're like I said during your laughing break that you're you're now a an exhibiting artist is that the term we would use yes yes yes so I've seen some of your artwork it's um it's it's got lots of different elements and you mentioned once that some of your your artworks have up to 20 different layers on them
that's right yeah none of this one layer acrylic I love oil paints and big yeah they're not small no they're not small no and so yeah I just work on them work on them once one layer at a time layer upon layer so airline airline pilot ferry pilot corporate pilot instructor airline instructor and an accomplished artist
and that's just the first two bullet points on your CV yeah we better not print this document out because it's gonna like I said take up more paper than's in the Amazon forest well after your Olympic pursuit and the success that you had there you have gone on to be a keynote speaker which a lot of listeners would know you as and trainer in leadership
yeah I I am very very lucky or fortunate in that I found what I love doing and what I love doing is is just telling stories and sharing what I call well I said I like to say that I'm the conduit of wisdom so throughout my life I've been very fortunate to learn from lots of different people and from lots of different sources so books and podcasts and people like yourself
and I love listening to other people's wisdom and then passing it on so I love training and speaking and teaching so I forged a career as a as a corporate trainer so I do a lot of leadership coaching leadership training mentoring and coaching and I also get to tell stories on stage so I'm a keynote speaker at conferences and
and I often I say this all the time but it's it's just so true it's too much fun to be considered a job it's it's I get to share stories I get to share wisdom that I've collected along the way and hopefully it helps helps people in some way shape or form
well I've heard one of your keynote speeches and it's amazing like it's it does it takes you on an emotional journey and I left wanting to be better and do better and and feeling that I could based on what you you've mentioned in your stories
hmm well I think it's it's it's a it's a fantastic um what's the word I don't want to use the word skill but it's it I have the opportunity to to pass on to others wisdom um stories and and learning that hopefully will help them in their careers in their personal lives
now with that is there anyone that you've met interesting I've I've got here on your list PM's nerd PM's nerd okay yes um well before I was a a keynote speaker or a leadership trainer um I actually trained quite a few uh different workshops so things like negotiation public presentation skills all of all the different professional development workshops I think we've got about 20 in our in our company that we train
um but before that I was actually a nerd I'm still a nerd I started out one of my first jobs was on help desk I used to support Lotus one two three for DOS so that should tell the audience is the audience how old I am um and I rolled out the first versions of Windows and Microsoft and I ran help desk
and after that I trained IT for quite some time and I was Australia's first mouse mask not Australia's first but one of the first mouse masters in Australia I can't say I was Australia's first I joked one day and I started to believe that that was true I have no idea but I'm Microsoft Office user specialist and so I've got a background in being a nerd and
oh so it's an acronym it's an acronym mouse mouse master yeah I didn't train mice little whips and chains come on mice you will obey my instructions and um so I worked in Canberra for a long time as a as a Microsoft Office trainer and I ended up working at the in the Prime Minister's Office and they asked me to go to Kira Belli House up here in Sydney and I got to install some software on the Prime Minister's computer and I got to show Jeanette how
I would um the Prime Minister's wife how to use the computer at the time because obviously it was all new to to people um so I got to sit at the Prime Minister's desk and so I will claim to be the Prime Minister's nerd I also worked in his office here in Sydney as well as down at Parliament House in Canberra so yes so my credentials involve being a nerd
Excellent well you go from PM's nerd to lunch with Jamie Foxx yeah that's quite a different story I was walking through Fox Studios one day and a lady in Sydney yes and a lady not Jamie Foxx Studios but Fox Studios here in Sydney and a lady ran up to me and said oh your children are beautiful can we take photos and put them in catalogues and so we decided yes okay okay and we'll entertain this idea
and when we were standing in there and they were taking photos of the children the lady said to me oh how tall are you and I said oh I'm six foot two and she said do you want to be in Star Wars now I'm a geek and and Star Wars was one of my favorite movies growing up and they were filming the latest Star Wars here in Sydney and she said would you like to be in Star Wars so I said yeah and it's funny when I was in the circus some of the kids went and actually were in movies and one of the movies that they were in was
called Molly and I was very jealous that these kids got in so I wrote on my bucket list I'm gonna be in a movie one day and so when she said do you want to be in Star Wars I'm thinking I'm gonna tick this off my bucket list and you and Princess Leia or Jabba the Hutt one of the two and she said let's take some photos and measure you up and all that sort of stuff so they took photos they measured me up they got all my details and they put it into their database and then they rang the studio and the studio came back said look he's just he's too big
for the for the alien costume so I was gonna be an alien in Star Wars and I was very disappointed when I couldn't be and and so they they said oh look I'm sorry and then they asked us if we wanted to pay more money to get the kids into catalogs and so anyway we walked away from that I was a bit disappointed I wasn't gonna be in Star Wars and we didn't put the kids in in any any catalogs or anything like that but then months later I got this phone call and this and I'd completely forgotten about that experience at Fox Studios that day and and so I got this phone call and that's
a guy we have a part for you and I said I didn't order any parts and I said no we got a part for you and I said no like I said I didn't order any parts and we had this very strange conversation it would have been strange from her perspective and it was very strange from my perspective because I thought somebody was ringing me up to tell me that they had a part that I'd ordered and I hadn't ordered any parts anyway I think it took about five minutes for me to figure out that she was from this talent agency this this agency over at Fox Studios and then she said that they had a part for me in a movie and
now I'm not an actor in any way shape or form I can't sing I can't dance I'm quite surprised and then I realized it was because of that that day when they said do you want to be in Star Wars and they said look you you look like a Hollywood movie star and we'd we'd love you to be his stand-in I didn't know what a stand-in was and because it was on my bucket list I said yep no worries so I turned up to Fox Studios and they they shaved my hair off they said can we give you a haircut and I said yeah no worries and they shaved it off so put me into a crew cut put me into a
naval uniform took photos of me sent it to the studio and then less than five minutes later they said you've got the part and I didn't even know what I was there to do and so apparently I look like Sam Shepard who is a famous Hollywood actor where he's passed away now but I went home and I said look apparently I look like Sam Shepard and I'm gonna be his stand-in in a movie and then I found out he was about 30 years older than me so I wasn't too happy with that but the next day I
arrived on set I had to cancel a whole two or three weeks of training work that I had and I went to Fox Studios and I got to be Sam Shepard's stand-in in this movie called Stealth and one of the actors in the movie is Jamie Foxx and I didn't know who he was at the time.
I just have to say I know the movie Stealth. You do? Yeah, yeah. You have some aeroplanes in you. Yes, yes of course of course and being the aerosexual that you are yes yes you love anything to do with aeroplanes. Not a great movie but yeah.
And one day I was the director said look I need you back on set really quickly so go and have some lunch and then come back to set so I raced off and this is before Jamie Foxx's won an Academy Award and so I don't know who he is anyway so I was told as a stand-in in the movie that I had to eat at the back of the tent.
So I had to be last in the queue but the director just said to me look you need to be back on set grab something to eat get back here quickly so I grabbed a plate of food sat down at a table not realising I was sitting at the actors table.
Jamie Foxx sits opposite me and and and he said oh who are you and I said I'm Guy and he said oh nice to meet you Guy what do you do and I said oh I'm Sam Shepard stand-in and I said to Jamie Foxx Academy Award winner stand-up comedian brilliant actor.
And I said to him and who are you and he just laughed and spat his food out and I said no I'm serious man I don't know who you are and he said Jamie and I said what do you do Jamie and he said are you serious now and I said yeah I don't know who you are mate.
And he said I'm in the movie and I said you got a big party one of the stars of the movie and I'm asking Jamie Foxx one of the most brilliant actors of all time what he what what he was there doing and and then yeah I had two weeks on that movie set.
And I didn't see Jamie again I didn't see any of the other lead actors but I certainly did get to meet a lot of people I got to work with Dean Semmler who is he won the cinematographer Oscar for Dances with Wolves and got to meet some amazing people and Rob Cohen the director and yeah it was a great experience.
But not being in the movies not knowing anything about the industry I was a bit of a bit of a doofus on set asking questions that I should have known the answer to such as who are you Jamie Foxx.
So yeah that's where that bullet list comes from.
Wow that it's not at all similar but it reminds me of the time I was in an advertisement for Virgin Australia and it was the Come Fly With Me campaign.
We had a whole day out at Eastern Creek and there were hundreds of extras there acting as cabin crew and pit crew etc.
And then there was the captain and myself I was first officer and we had hair and makeup done and then we had to walk and do things coming out of a hanger for the ad which they were putting together.
And I remember there was this absolutely beautiful man best cheekbones great hair the whole thing and he came up to me and he looked me up and down and he said how did you get to be a pilot.
And I said trained and he said no like seriously I would look better in that uniform than you.
You probably would but I am actually a pilot.
So he was an actor thinking that you're an actor.
So yeah he would have looked amazing.
So you would have no doubt been in quite a few advertisements for Virgin.
I was in print for a couple but there was one television advertisement the music Come Fly With Me.
I won't start singing for you.
You said singer wasn't in your ad.
No I can't hit a note.
I'm not even going to attempt.
Well okay so you were you were in the ad for Virgin being the Virgin captain but you were also a promotional girl for Coca-Cola is that right?
Oh that was a long time ago.
No I want to hear this story.
Yes so when I was a teenager a fair bit younger than I am now I did a little bit of modeling and promotional work and one of them was for Coca-Cola.
I was living at Newcastle at the time and the requirement was that I had to be in a red bikini with Coca-Cola sash on and lots of daggy makeup on roller skates.
Now I had to roller skate amongst people at the beach not on the sand but on the sidewalk which was with cement and offer them Coca-Cola cups.
And so the only thing was I said yes jumped at the opportunity and because I was going to get paid but the only thing was I had never roller skated before.
I couldn't roller skate so if you can imagine a giraffe because I'm very tall a giraffe on roller skates and that's about where I'm at.
So it was awkward it was horrible and so I ended up clinging on to a hand rail and anyone trying to look nonchalant and you know beautiful and absolutely shitting myself inside that I would need to move from my post on the rail.
And anytime anyone walked past and said yeah I'd like a Coke thing so Coca-Cola I would be like trying to look alluring and say well you've got to come to me.
They did it I would spill the whole tray.
Come to me and get a Coca-Cola.
So it was only for one day only for four hours and then that my roller skating career was done.
So have you learned to roller skate since then?
No.
Okay so tick that is true Coca-Cola ambassador.
Yes that's right.
So on your list I can see here a journo.
Journo yeah I studied journalism at university and I did sports journalism I don't know I actually do know how I ended up there.
I was going to be a PE teacher when I left high school because I loved sport I was a mad sportsman and so I went and studied PE in Melbourne and ended up deferring for a year and then when I went to the Institute of Sport down in Canberra I tried to get in PE and they couldn't get me in there because the course was full so they ended up putting me in sports science so I did a year of sports science.
I was a science nerd as well as an IT nerd and then at the end of that year I asked them can I please now go back into PE because I want to be a PE teacher and they said no the course is still full but hey look you're a pretty good writer why don't you be a journalist and I didn't think about it.
I just said yes because I said yes to everything which by the sounds of it that's what you do you say yes to every opportunity that comes your way and that's why your serve is so extensive and I said yes to getting into journalism.
I didn't know at the time it was actually a very difficult course to get into at the University of Canberra so I ended up being in a journalism degree and then I remember the most awful day of my life up until that point was I was sitting in the lecture and the lecturer came out and was handing back the essays and he said Guy you got the top marks read your essay out to the class and I nearly passed out because this was the first time I was going to be speaking in front of people for my entire life I had avoided it through high school and I ended up doing it.
I ended up having to read my essay out to the class and nearly passed out.
I thought you'd been confident your whole life.
No no no no I think one of our podcasters is going to be on that topic but how we both went from being shy because we discussed this yeah we were both very very shy.
I often describe myself as a shy sensitive insecure little sook as a kid I'm still sensitive I cry in movies but not shy anymore but yeah and so I was in a journalism degree and did a little bit of broadcast journalism.
Even though I was petrified of speaking in front of people and yeah so I ended up with that degree and have never used it so I've never worked as a journalist and I do like writing so I write a lot of training material.
Well I know a couple of journos and so did that then lead into your next career move of owning a vineyard?
Why are we taking off my list faster than your list? Well okay so I see the connection journalist drinker.
I used to joke that I never ended up working as a journalist because I don't drink and smoke but I do drink occasionally and I certainly don't smoke but yeah now vineyard yes that one's true so a friend of mine Matthew had approached me and asked me if I was interested in getting into a vineyard.
And so we myself and a bunch of mates we ended up building a vineyard in New Zealand in Marlborough.
One of our mates from university had won a gold medal for his sauvignon blanc over in Marlborough and I say yes to everything so when my friend said would you be interested in getting into a vineyard I said yes absolutely.
So we built a beautiful vineyard in New Zealand outside in the Marlborough region not far from Blenheim and it was a gorgeous space it looked over like a river and snow capped mountains and we built it and we put down some sauvignon blanc and then the GFC happened.
And so what was meant to be quite an easy you know or a lazy little foray into having a vineyard and selling grapes to our mate who was going to make wine and we had a little vineyard called Duck and Pheasant.
Well actually just as I've flown you before I knew you I've probably drunk a bottle or a case of wine.
Yeah well you may have you may have drank a few because my business partners are involved in a lot of different wines and had a wine distribution company and our mate Ant, Ant Moore he makes a lot of different wines so there's a very good chance that you've drunk some of their very fine wines.
But yes a vineyard yes true but it wasn't very long lived we got out of the vineyard business a few years ago now but that was a great experience we ended up not making a lot of money but we certainly didn't lose a lot of money.
But okay so we're looking at I'm looking at your list now and there's two I'm going to choose from here like I'm going to okay I was in in viticulture you were a cotton farmer.
You were a pilot, teacher, artist, Coca-Cola, merchandise what's the word I would use after I mentioned it? Represent? Cotton farmer okay talk to me about cotton farmer.
So I met my husband my first husband I've had a couple.
We won't hold that against you that's common these days.
And it's nothing to do with the pilot thing you know what they say it's not true.
But so my husband and I met at university now he was in agriculture I was an arty freak and when he graduated we moved to northwest New South Wales and we had a cotton farm.
So I got to learn a lot about cotton chipping weeds all the chemicals all the you know the sale price the water allocations etc.
So yeah it was definitely interesting but in that time also as after I was working at Yurindali I became a publican of the one of the local.
So you ran a pub okay okay. So Rowena which wasn't well it wasn't that far from where we were about half an hour drive.
And so yeah I ran the pub and I would go into the big smoke of Tamworth which was a couple of hours away.
I know Tamworth quite well one of my very good friends started out the water polo in Tamworth it's a very very strong water polo community.
Well that was like the city. So yeah I'd drive there and pick up cigarettes and beer there was no wine out at Rowena.
But yeah that was yeah it was an interesting time.
So and how did you get to be a welder?
Just straight to it. So after living in Rowena and having cotton farm and doing all of that moved to Narrabri.
And I was because I was trained as an artist I am pretty well jack of all trades.
I got into the TAFE system so I was teaching at college at the technical college there.
And in smaller country towns if they utilize every qualification you have and as part of my degree.
That couldn't possibly use all of your qualifications.
But as part of my degree.
Are there that many courses at TAFE?
Funny. Welding I had done at university as part of the sculpture component.
So they gave me a crash course in how to teach basically at TAFE and yeah I taught welding.
So I would be teaching art, business studies because again.
They're compatible.
That's right. And I had been in hospitality and retail at university to try and make some money to survive.
Waitress in a cocktail bar?
Yes.
Visual merchandising so doing the displays in department stores.
And then yeah I taught welding so I'd come from one where I was wearing pearls and heels and put on overalls and yeah teach welding.
Pearls and heels and overalls. That should be a song.
Prince could sing it.
Tractor driver.
Ah okay. That's yes.
Is that involving the cotton farm or is that different?
No.
No okay.
So that was whilst I was at university the tractor driving out at Durham Bandy which is on the New South Wales Queensland border.
And we'd have 12 hour shifts.
So it was two kilometre runs and yeah so for 12 hours I'd drive two kilometres, turn around, drive two kilometres.
So you'll give anything a go?
I'll give absolutely anything a go.
Is that the secret to a CV that is longer than any human on earth that I have ever met?
Just saying yes. Is that your secret?
Yes.
Do you just say yes to anything that comes your way?
Yes. Absolutely.
And if I don't know how to do it I'll give it a red hot go and learn on the way.
Yeah. So do you have any mottos that you live by? Is it a motto or is it just a way of life?
Yeah. Pretty much. Well apart from giving anything a go you keep going until you can't.
I love that. I love that. So I keep going until I can't.
Yeah.
It sounds like you've never reached a point where you can't though.
Not yet.
Wow. Wow. I thought my list was long. I really did. I've been told by many people.
Actually I was told this in my 30s. I'm now in my 50s.
But I can't believe you fit so much into your life.
And so I've heard that from many people many times.
But I've now met you and the list of things that you've achieved.
We haven't even gone through the entire list.
I don't know how much longer we can do this first podcast.
It's nearly an hour so far.
Okay. Well we should probably stop.
I know. I think we should keep going because we're only halfway through the Bollinger.
And the best thing about podcasts is people can press pause and keep going.
True.
Yeah. They can come back. They've driven to work five times now in this podcast.
And they've decided to keep listening to us.
If they're still listening now they've decided, yep, these two clowns or this clown and this captain.
The captain and the clown are worth listening to.
And you know the Bollinger, we're only...
We're two thirds of the way down.
No. I'd say we're only a third of the way down because it's thinner at the top.
I'd say you have a perception problem.
Okay. Well I do have a perception problem.
That's why a lot of the things that are on my list are quite weird.
Okay. Well if we're continuing on...
Let's go. Let's keep going. They can pause. They can pause and come back.
Do they? Okay. So the old...
You know, remember when on airplanes how you had the sick bag, the vomit bag?
Yes.
Was also where you could put your roll of film and have a process.
I do remember that. I do remember that.
So what do you have to do with that? It wasn't the vomit?
No. It wasn't the vomit bags. But those bags, you would put your roll of 35 mil film in.
Yes.
And you would take them off to a photo laboratory to get them developed and printed.
So when I went straight to university and studied PE teaching, I, after a year, I wasn't really motivated to continue studying.
I don't know why. I love learning now, but I didn't like it so much back then.
So I decided to take a year off, much to my parents' chagrin.
And I applied for a bunch of jobs and got a job as a printer in a photo laboratory.
And so I got to sit there and take people's little 35 mil film canisters and develop them and then develop the negatives and then print their photos.
So I've seen all your photos. Not yours, but yours as in my listeners.
I've seen lots of people's photographs.
And yeah, it's interesting what people will take a photo of and then get somebody else to develop it.
And so I was doing that for some time.
And then a water bottle club up here in Sydney, in Balmain, had approached me to come and play water bottle for them.
And I thought, no, I'm probably going to go back to uni in Melbourne.
And then I just made a snap decision.
No, I'm going to move to Sydney and play water bottle for Balmain.
And so I went into the manager's office and said, look, can you get me a job in Sydney as a printer, as a printer in one of your labs up there?
And they said, yeah, I'll give Sydney a call and see if there's any available.
So I moved up to Sydney and I ended up working as a printer in the MRC building.
And so I'm just a printer. I sit there behind this big hot machine and print out people's photos.
And do you actually look at them?
You have to because you have to check to see whether you've got any dust on the prints and reprint them.
Do you ever make copies for yourself?
Not legally, no. I collected sunsets and some of my colleagues collected other things.
And so our staff room was very artistic. Yes, yes.
We all had our own wall and I collected sunsets.
And so anyway, so I was a printer there.
And then one day the manager decided to quit and go off and do whatever they were going off to do.
And I got a phone call from the head office and they said, oh, congratulations, you're now the manager.
I didn't even apply for the job and I'm now the manager of a photo laboratory.
So I have to open and close and run the staff.
And so that was my first foray into leadership was running a photo laboratory for Rabbit Photo.
I'm not sure if you remember them, Rabbit Photo. Yes, yes I do.
So we used to develop Kodak film and Fuji film.
And so, yeah, I was a photo shop manager, far too young, far too young to be in a leadership or a management position.
And that was where I cut my teeth, I guess, on leadership and the challenges of being a leader.
So I'd like to go back to your list and I don't know where to go next.
So is there something that you'd like to add?
There's too many to choose from.
OK, architect. Were you an architect? No.
So that's bullshit. All right.
Finally. OK, so we found the first thing on your list that was that is false. You stuck that in there to to to fool with me.
OK, now you are a model.
Yes, yes. So I did some some modeling whilst I was at university, anything to, you know, keep keep going.
And I heard that you actually I can see on your list is model also.
Yeah, I wouldn't say modeling. I know you did do merchandising and you were also a coca-cola.
And so I need to hear more about your modeling story before I tell you about when I was a model.
No, mine was campaigns such as Embed with Meduna.
So it was a very creative title.
Embedding company Wagga Wagga. Takes two Wagga's to make Wagga Wagga Wagga.
Wagga Wagga. That's not far from where I grew up.
I know. But yeah, that was and did a bit of catwalk, etc.
But no, nothing. You wouldn't see me on Vogue.
Linda Evangelista was one of my heroes. Yeah, there you go.
You think you're probably taller than her?
Possibly. I think you would be. I think you'd have her just even though you're very short.
I'm quite tall if you're not if you're not aware.
Listeners, I tower over Michelle by a good two, three, four millimeters.
No, no, it's got to be inches.
Yeah, so modeling. No, I was never a model. I did appear naked in the magazine.
Yes, yes, I have seen it. Oh, you haven't?
On the wall. On the wall. OK.
Why is it on the wall?
Yeah, so when I was in the Australian water polo team, we I was asked to appear nude in a in Black and White magazine.
And so it was, yes, my first and only modeling experience.
So that was quite interesting that I had to do it with my kid off. Yeah. Yeah.
So they they rang me and and asked me if I was prepared to do it.
And like you, I said yes to everything.
And then they said you'll be nude. And I didn't take the yes back.
Anyway, so yeah, so I ended up being naked in a magazine, Black and White magazine.
Now, no.
Oh, OK. The funny story is that myself and one of Australia's best female water polo goalkeepers, Liz Weeks, was also in the same magazine.
And she's a good friend of mine. And and she rang me and she said, so you were asked to be in the magazine.
So I said, yeah. And you were as well. She said, yeah.
And she said, how about we do it together?
And I thought, what a great idea. That'd be, you know, take all the fear away, you know, just.
And then I ran it past my wife and that was a big no.
I think kind of understand. Yeah.
Liz was actually ended up winning the I guess not really the award, but she was voted the world's most beautiful, the world's most sexy sports person.
Yeah. Yeah. She had a great body.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But asking my wife at the time if I could appear naked with the world's most beautiful sportswoman.
Yeah, that was a big hard no. That one. Yeah. Yeah. That one didn't go ahead.
But that was that was the only only time anyone ever asked me to be in front of a camera.
So, OK, well, I think that might be enough of our past, our our experiences and things.
So basically, we're we're we'll be the ones that either put our hand up or everyone else steps back and we're still the ones.
We say yes. So we say yes. We say yes. And saying yes to opportunities that come your way means that you get lots of experiences.
It doesn't mean you necessarily become good at those things. I've tried many, many things and failed at.
But I think the attitude that both you and I have and that is to say yes to every experience that comes your way.
And it's a lot with attitude as well. So not not being arrogant about it, but just doing the whole and being humble and saying, look, I've never done this before.
But I'll give it a go. Or I've got this experience. Could it help you?
You know, I think it's an attitude that that definitely helps you go places.
The fact that you're not closed off to anything. Yeah. Yeah.
And because of it, we ended up with lots of experiences. I think I was actually too scared to say no.
I think saying no was probably was was harder than saying yes to some of these strange and and interesting experiences that I've had.
Yeah, I agree. Actually, I was probably the same.
And until possibly a few years ago, I was scared to say no. But yeah, I've developed a confidence and trusted my own judgment more and and and now a more selective.
Mm hmm. More selective of what you say yes to. I guess you learn that as you go, don't you?
Yeah. So we're going to be talking about lots of topics in this podcast.
We wrote a list of the sorts of things that we're going to be talking about.
And we've got also a large list of people that we're going to be inviting on to the absolutely whether they come on or not.
But we're planning on doing a thousand podcasts where the people decide to come on and that's that's up to them.
But so I'm just going to go through a list of the things that we've discussed before this original podcast as to what we're going to be talking about.
So the first podcast, I'd like to talk about confidence.
So this is something that I didn't have as a young person and you said you were quite shy when you were younger.
Absolutely. Yeah. So I think a geeky skinny tall girl. Yeah.
You could use the same description. Just put boy where you had girl. Yeah. Tall geeky. Yeah. Awkward. Nervous young man.
And then to think that both of us ended up being quite successful in our careers in different endeavours.
I think confidence is the first topic I'd like to talk about because I really struggled not having any confidence.
And I actually went and saw psychologists about my lack of confidence and I wasn't helped by any professionals.
And I think I've discovered the secret to confidence.
So I'd like to share with you, Michelle and our listeners in our next podcast what confidence is all about and where it comes from.
And I think I've unlocked a secret and I'd love to talk about that.
Now this next one is something you're quite passionate about is communication. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. So the unspoken.
So texting. I'm sure everyone's familiar with, you know, texting and getting the wrong message.
You know, words mean so many different things without any verbal or physical cues at all.
So communication is a big one. And life, leadership and everything else.
Leadership. Leaders need to be confident because you follow confident people.
Communication is important because in leadership you need to be a good communicator.
We're also going to be talking about growth mindset, something that we're both quite, we found out we're both quite passionate about.
Decision making is a big one that, you know, featured a lot in my training.
And just day to day with being an airline captain, you know, decision making.
And you had so many lives in your hand basically.
And so it was, you know, and you do four sectors and it's close to a thousand people, lives that are relying on you.
And so you're making decisions with people's lives on the line. Absolutely.
And I have heard a couple of your stories about that and I'd love to go deeper into understanding about how you make a decision when you've got,
what's the capacity of one of the planes that you flew? What's the maximum capacity?
So I was on the 737, so 186 people.
So when you're making decisions and 186 people's lives are on the line, that's what I want to know.
How do you do that? I couldn't even imagine all the decisions that I've made in my life.
It only affected one or two or three people, but you've made decisions that have affected a lot of people.
So I'm looking forward to that podcast in particular.
We're going to be talking about mentoring and coaching because we both mentor and coach.
And you're doing a lot of mentoring of young ladies in aviation and in other areas as well.
So that's going to be an interesting one. We've decided we'd like to talk about conflict as well.
Yes, absolutely. Quite often conflict comes up and depending on when you were born and the experiences you've had,
how you handle conflict, it can really make or break where you're at.
There are ways to handle it, good and bad. So I think discussing that would be quite beneficial.
We're going to talk about creativity, being an artist. I'd like to talk about where your muse comes from.
Do you have a muse? You do. And I'd love to hear more about that because art is not something that I have really been...
But look, including creativity in your business life, in your everyday life, it's not just painting or sculpting.
It's really your perspective. Yeah, I'd say that. I think I've applied creativity in my businesses,
but art producing something that people look at and enjoy like you can. That's something I'd love to learn more about.
We're going to talk about lots and lots of topics. That's just a handful of the topics that we're going to be talking about.
This podcast is about life. We're going to share our experiences. You've had many, I've had many.
We're going to talk about leadership. Absolutely. So leadership, perspective of airline captain and how that applies to business, everyday life.
Parenting. Absolutely. Yes, both being parents. We're going to talk about leadership in relation to business and being a CEO.
I do a lot of coaching and also even new leaders. What do you need to think about?
Yeah, aspiring leaders, emerging leaders, definitely. And we've said everything else.
Everything else. We're not limiting ourselves. We certainly haven't limited ourselves.
Well, we're only halfway through the Bollinger, but I think that might be a long enough podcast because you have actually said to me many times now that we were aiming for 25 minutes,
but we've been going for an hour and an hour and 10, hour and 11 minutes.
And you did say that 25 minutes was important because you kept on telling me that length matters. Oh, absolutely.
OK, so we've gone over on the first one. But Michelle, I look forward to hearing more of your stories.
I find you the most intriguing human being in that you've done so much in your short life.
You're really kind.
And you've achieved an incredible amount of things in your life. So I look forward to learning from you and listening more to your stories.
And I certainly want to hear more of those flying stories, specifically ferrying little planes from America to Australia and just the courage that it takes to do those sort of things.
So I look forward to our many podcasts together.
Absolutely. Yes. No, it's looking forward to turning up to the next one.
Yes. Hopefully there'll be another bottle of Bollinger. This podcast was brought to you by Bollinger.
If anyone listening has any contacts in the industry and they know anyone from Bollinger, we're a big fan of Bollinger.
I know it's over in France, but if you're in France and you're listening in, please, Captain and the Clown.
Yes. All right. Cheers, Michelle.
Cheers.
So, Michelle, where can they find us?
Captainandtheclown.com
Where you'll find links to our websites for keynote speaking and corporate training.
Yes, that's Captainandtheclown.com
Well, that was fun.
That was fun.
You're such a clown.
The clown, Captain.
Lady captain.
And who's going to listen to this?
Maybe our mums.
Yes, mums.