G'day leaders, in this episode of Captain and
the Clown, we are talking about dream ignition.
What it means to have a dream and the lengths
that you'll go to fulfill it. Enjoy. Why did
it count backwards? I know, we're now recording.
What? Hello Captain. Come fly with me, let's
fly, let's fly. What are we going to talk about?
I don't know. So, leadership, life and everything
else. Yeah. And we're live again in Bali. Yes,
although we won't be live. It's been that long
since you forget that your job is to dismiss
me saying we're live. It's been a while, yes.
And anyway... You'll get used to it again. Yeah,
I will. No, we're not, Guy. No, we're not, Guy.
And we're live. What were your old sayings, you
say? No, we're recording. No, we're recording.
There you go. You'll get back into it. You'll
get back into it. It's been a little hiatus.
We recorded yesterday and we're on a roll. We're
on fire. We're on a roll. Two days in a row.
Yes. Two days in a row. But yesterday I promised
something that we didn't actually then do in
the podcast. I promised a story from your book,
Lady MacGyver, out now in all good books. stores
and on the top seller list of the aviation engineers
and also on the best seller list at WHS Sydney.
Yeah, WH Smith. Did I say it? Okay, WH Smith.
H. I know, you always pick me up on my pronunciation
of H. What is the correct pronunciation of the
letter in the shell? It's spelled A -I -T -C
-H. So what's the correct pronunciation? H. So
all those numbers that say H. I think it's a
Catholic thing, isn't it? The H. I'm not Catholic.
I know. I didn't grow up with a religion. My
parents weren't religious. We won't get into
that. Okay, so it's not H, it's H. H, okay, there
we go. There's the first lesson from this podcast.
There will be people who disagree. You can disagree
all you want with Michelle, but she will fight
tooth and nail for this one. The poor kids constantly
get, it's H, not H. And I'm the instigator because
I always say, I've said H my whole life. I remember.
I hope you said E -F -G -H -I -J. Anyway, it
doesn't matter. Okay. So, this podcast, we're
calling it Dream Launch. Yes. I think that's
what I put in the file. Dream Launching. Dream
Launching. Yes. So, because we're talking about...
one of the stories that we could share from Michelle's
book, Lady MacGyver, and that was the very first
story as to how your dream of becoming a pilot
was ignited. Yes, but I'm not going to read from
the book. Dream Ignition. That's it, Dream Ignition.
Dream Ignition is the name of this podcast. But
I'm not going to read from the book. No, no,
but I'd like you to share that story because
I find it a fabulous story because we've all
had dreams that we've moved towards or ignored
or forgotten about. Or just held it. as a dream
or still holding as a dream yes and those dreams
start from somewhere yes yours your dream to
be a pilot started in a very unusual way so can
you share yes so My father was in the RAAF, in
the Air Force, and we moved to Malaysia. So Dad
was based at Butterworth and we lived in Penang.
And I was a bit of a tomboy as a kid. I was the
son Dad never had. And I would go to the Air
Force Base with him. I loved the smell of the
burnt kerou, you know, the fuel. Avgas. Well,
it was Avtur. Avtur? Yes. What's Tur? A turbine.
Turbine, okay. And the old Jet A1. Is it all
the same thing? No. Okay. Jet A1, Avtur. So it's
like burnt kerosene. Right, we'll go burnt kerosene.
Yeah. I love the fact that, you know, these military
aircraft, the SPAS jets, you could see them and
then seconds later you'd hear them that boom
afterwards. And I, as part of the way to keep
children entertained, that we're Air Force children,
we had colouring in competitions and I was really
good at colouring in. You're still good at that.
Hopefully it can go outside of colouring in.
But my dad would make sure I coloured in between
the lines and I was 100 % accurate with the camouflage
pattern. on particular aircraft and where the
flags were and the markings and the regos. I'm
picturing you're colouring in. It would look
like a photograph. Well, Dad made sure, and I
was seven. And we would go out to the base and
I would be positioned next to an aircraft and
I would copy. everything down the shadows and
things and and so i won quite a few competitions
and our prizes were flights in caribou chinooks
hercules um hercules you know clapping and the
you know i i won them so often and i'm not bragging
here but i saw yes you are you're a very good
artist you're allowed to brag i can i'm hopefully
an artist that goes out i brag about your art
all the time i tell people i live in an art gallery
so you know continue your story without my interruptions
but i will interrupt again because i enjoy it
the and so the um I saw pilots flying the aircraft
and naively in my childish innocence I would
think they were just doing the same you know
toggle flicking a button pushing in the same
sequence every time and As a kid, you think,
yeah, I can do that, because you see the pattern.
I'm one of those children, probably now would
be diagnosed with something, but one of those
kids that wallpaper back in the day, in the 70s
and 80s, we had it, and I could see the repeat,
and I would also see in the negative faces and
different things. But I saw the pattern in what
the pilots were doing, and it looked easy. It
is, isn't it? Flying planes? It is, it is. But
I had no understanding of what you needed to
actually know for when things went wrong. But
the flight that kind of sealed the deal as far
as igniting the dream of flying was, again, I'd
won first prize and we were there at the base
and we were marched across to a line of aircraft.
And as I climbed the stairs and they were similar
to... You know the backyard pool stairs, the
above ground backyard? Yep, the little ones.
Yep, the little stairs. And I climbed up and
I got in the seat and the pilot leaned across.
He was behind me, leaned across and helped me
fasten my five -point harness. That's a serious
seatbelt. It is. It was keeping everything in.
And he said to me, Michelle, do not touch anything.
which was really good advice because I was only
seven and we were in a Mirage 3 fighter jet,
which was beyond awesome. You're in a Mirage
fighter jet age seven. Yeah, the trainer. By
the way, I know this story, but again, every
time I listen to it, I think, oh my God, how
do you put a seven -year -old into a Mirage fighter
and then take them up on a flight? Well, the
funny thing is I spoke to my dad only a couple
of weeks ago. He read the book and he said, I
can't believe we let you do that. Like, thinking
back now, all the things that could have gone
wrong and, you know, if you'd had to eject, you
probably would have broken. Like, you're a seven
-year -old child. Eject, eject. What do I do?
What do I do? Well, no, just that, yeah, there
are so many things that could go wrong. Would
they have been able to eject you or would you
have had to have ejected yourself just like Top
Gun where they're pulling that round thing? I'm
not sure. I don't know. I've not been in a Mirage
since then. Imagine that. You're in danger and
the pilot's going, Michelle, eject, eject. And
you're going, what does that mean? I don't have
my cassette recorder with me. In reality, I would
probably not let my kids do it, even now at 14.
Well, OH &S was a bit different back then, you
used to say. Yeah, that's right. It was pretty
loose, OH &S. So, yeah. Okay, now I want to put
us in the seat, put our audience in the seat
and tell us the experience of flying in a fighter
jet H7. So I've got the five -point harness on,
which is pretty tight, so I couldn't really move.
And then it seemed we started and you felt that
roar of the engine. I felt it. through my body
just that like just like my old 1969 vw beetle
no it's bigger than that but so that the engine
at the back and it just roared and then we we
felt it seemed to go from a standing start to
straight vertical towards the moon within seconds
how many g's are you pulling there i don't know
i didn't black out or gray out so but we went
straight it felt like we went straight up mind
you it could have been just a normal climb back
then is like, I've probably created, you know,
we went to the moon, but yeah, it was mainly
up to 3000 feet or something. I don't know. But,
um, we, it felt like we went straight up and
then there was that feeling of weightlessness
when we nosed over and it was just that, like,
you know, you get that funny feeling in your
tummy and it's like, Oh, it's on your weightless.
Yes. And then screaming back down and it felt
like we were pointed to earth. Yeah. Again, probably
just a normal descent, but fast. And you're seven.
Yeah. And I remember like I was screaming audibly,
not from fear, just excitement. It was like the
best roller coaster ride you could ever do. And
when we leveled out and then I think we just
did a normal circuit entry pattern back in to
land, it was just like, oh. that's what i want
to do i'm going to do that i'm going to be a
pilot thinking i was going to fly mirages and
that was it you know that was my dream so originally
you were going to be a fighter pilot yeah although
i didn't realize that fighter pilot meant that
you had to fight okay it's not just no i just
wanted to fly fast planes you're going to shoot
at other people yeah no i didn't want to do that
oh well i didn't actually think about it no of
course not because i doubt on your joyride you
would have been shooting at things yeah no no
okay and so that's when your dream to be a pilot
was ignited yes yes wow so how many people on
the planet have that sort of experience where
their dream was ignited at seven with such an
extreme level of intense emotions and you know
that's that's probably about five five seven
year olds that's that's just an extraordinary
story and every time i hear it i put myself in
that seat and i feel what you felt and i can
only imagine that that would have ignited your
dream so how about you have you got any dream
dreams yes i don't know about dream ignition
but sorry just before we do that can I just go
back to you know and that that's when it all
started for you and the fact that I obviously
read your book many many times throughout the
whole editing process and to know what you went
through to become an airline captain at the end
Again, I know I've told you this thousands of
times just directly in person off microphone.
I take my hat off to you. What you had to go
through and the challenges you overcame and then
the heights that you reached in your airline.
43 ,000 feet. Yeah, exactly. That's a long way
up. In your aviation career. Kudos to you, Michelle.
That you had a dream at seven, but then you worked.
tirelessly and often foolishly. And maybe one
day we'll tell that foolish story. Yes, yes.
Some could say I am stubborn. Stubborn. Well,
stubbornness was a beautiful trait in you because
it got you to where you wanted to be. Yeah, extraordinary.
But age seven. I didn't have any dreams at age
seven. Right. None whatsoever. I was a shy, sensitive,
insecure little sook. I've told everyone this
many times in my courses and on the podcast.
And I kind of, I was a go with the flow sort
of kid. I played footy because my brother played
footy and he was younger, but he was very, very
good. And I played cricket and whatever and a
lot with my brother. I just kind of just, I went
along and just joined in and I wasn't very goal
driven. I wasn't a very motivated young man,
but I developed a skill. No, I discovered that
I have a skill and that is that I'm very good
at putting my head in front of fast moving objects.
That's how they choose a goalkeeper. They throw
a brick at your head and if you don't duck, you're
the goalie. So I'd never had a goal to make the
Olympic team. I played water polo because a teacher
at school said, would anyone like to play the
sport? I was in year seven. And he said, come
and see me after assembly if you're interested
in playing water polo. Now I'd played every sport
under the sun because I love sport and I'll give
anything a go. So I went up and I played water
polo. And that first year, I was the worst player
in the water. I was horrible. I could tread water,
but I was a skinny little kid and weak and quite
useless. And I'll just tell a quick side story.
I went to my water polo club, Aubrey Water Polo
Club was my first water polo club down in Aubrey,
obviously. And I went to the... I think the 30
-year reunion? Yes. And I'm an Olympian at that
stage, but one of the guys came up to me and
said, I still can't believe you made it. You
were the worst bloody player in the whole team.
Was that the one we went to last year? Yeah,
yeah, the one that you were at, yeah. And anyway,
I still find that very funny. So I played water
polo, but I was never goal -driven, but I just
kept on turning up, turning up, turning up because
I like participating. joining in with what other
people are doing and and then eventually um i
was offered a scholarship to the australian institute
of sport and again it wasn't a goal that i was
working towards i wasn't working towards any
of these goals and it wasn't until i got to the
institute where i was surrounded by all these
very motivated very very goal -driven human beings
where i started to catch on that I need to set
goals and so yeah that's when that's when I set
my goal for being an Olympian and for being the
best in the world but it was only because I was
surrounded by other motivated people yeah so
you got a flight in a fighter jet I just happened
to be living with the most motivated athletes
in the country and it was kind of infectious
yeah Well, look, there's something about your
tribe who you hang around, definitely, or seeing
somebody who's doing it that then gives you the
confidence and the, I say the script, but also
the ways forward. Yeah. That there is a path,
a pathway forward. Yeah. But I just want to say,
and I read somewhere, I don't know where I read
it, about... A lot of people feel that they've
failed in their dreams or goals if they haven't
made it to number one. But a dream or a goal
doesn't need to be the best of. It's your best.
And your best may be not number one, but number
27 or 16 or it might be the third or whatever,
especially even in teams. remember um when I
was a teen I wanted to travel to America and
to Canada and like I wanted to see the world
and to London, and I was in a marching band,
the Marching Koalas from Newcastle, a combined
high school marching band. Now, I couldn't play
an instrument, and I was on the drill squad,
which was we twirled flags, we twirled batons.
I was Australian flag at one stage because I
was tall. You're still tall, Michelle. But I
wasn't the best at playing any instruments. I
definitely wasn't the best in drill squad at
all. cohesively as a team um we you know we we
complimented and supported each other and we
got to go to those places it was it was great
so so yeah i just i just wanted to say that um
you don't have to you don't have to be the best
no you want to aim for your best yeah yeah but
and it can you can still achieve goals and dreams
yeah um being part of a team or you know collective
or whatever There's one thing that we talk about
in our time management course that is relevant
to this discussion. So goals don't create happiness.
No. And I learned this from Scott Adams from
the Dilbert comic. Oh, yes. I don't remember
where I read it, but he's attributed as saying
that goals don't create happiness. Your daily
routines do. Yeah, so goals are simply things
that you want to achieve at some point in time
in the future. The problem with having goals
is that when you focus on them, you're focusing
on the future. We've spoken about this before.
We have in the podcast. So you're always focused
on the future, which means that you get into
this mindset, I'll be happy when I achieve that
goal. I'll be happy when I get that thing or
whatever it is. But no, you won't because when
you get there, you've already moved past it because
time's not going to stop for you. And now you've
got to set another goal. So what goals do is
they just give you direction. yeah it's your
North Star and then enjoying the journey is important
yeah that's where the secret is yeah and I've
spoken about this before there were so many pilots
that were so set on getting into the airlines
they really despised the flying they needed to
do to build the hours beforehand which is really
sad because it's still your life and you know
I cannot say that there was not there was a single
trip that i didn't love like i i enjoyed and
some of them taught me lessons definitely and
there were days that were better than others
but um every single day was you know one another
step towards uh getting into an airline but also
i learned so much and met so many nice people
and a lot of those people i'm still in contact
with it was it was fun i see i think that's maybe
a bit of the difference between your journey
my journey Turning up to the pool and killing
ourselves physically, I didn't at first find
fun. So I couldn't find the pleasure in the day.
I couldn't find the pleasure in the day because
it was all pain. People throwing... balls at
me at 95 kilometers an hour it's it's smashing
my ligaments and breaking my nose and and then
we're swimming four five six kilometers where
we're holding weights above our head it was grueling
punishment every day and finding the fun the
enjoyment in that didn't come until later I don't
know why I don't know why where it came from
but listening to your story but I'm not saying
it's it was easy no I'm not saying it was easy
for you I'm saying what you did took a a lot
of effort and training and learning and it wasn't
easy but the way you describe it to me is that
you were able to enjoy the process yeah look
if nothing else they're great stories at the
bar you know there were days when when the aircraft
were just held together and you know they had
oil leaks and fuel leaks and you needed uh you
know 10 air fresheners in the aircraft or what
was that lady macgyver thing you did with the
wheel struts i won't tell that one okay but there
were there were times when you know you were
you had substandard equipment and substandard
weather there was you know rainbows at one stage
equaled danger to me because every time I saw
a rainbow it was like oh there's lightning around
or you know some well no that's what I associated
with but it was there you know there were there
were times when the turbulence was so bad your
teeth were chattering and and um you couldn't
see the instruments and uh you know things weren't
amazing but Every single day, like every single
night, I slept well thinking... Well, that was
an experience. That's an hour I've definitely
earned in the logbook this day. And you loved
flying. I did. I love flying. And even when I
was, and I will admit I was scared sometimes,
but it was because I'd read about it. So I was
book smart, but not necessarily experience smart.
And I knew I had to get out into it. And, yeah,
because it was not something that I had experienced
before or was familiar with, or I'd had an experience
that wasn't particularly fun, and so I had an
apprehension towards it. But, again, more experience,
more hours in it, I became more confident in
my own ability. in my ability of reading the
weather the situation etc and then of course
you move into airlines where you've got someone
else to spitball with and to scream with no we
didn't scream but you know it was someone sitting
next to you yeah yeah rather than your own reflection
definitely yeah yeah whereas i had all the people
sitting in front of me throwing things at me
I'm sure I've told you. Did I tell you that I
didn't know I'd made the Olympic team when I
made the Olympic team? You did, you did, yeah.
Have I told it on this podcast? No, you haven't.
Okay. So, like I said, I wasn't hugely goal -driven.
It was, I don't know what I was searching for.
I think I was just searching. Which is funny
that you were the goalkeeper. Yeah, exactly,
exactly. Well, I wasn't scoring goals, Michelle.
No, no. I was saving goals. And so I kind of
had it set in my head that I'd like to go to
an Olympics, but I hadn't targeted. the Olympics
I went to. And we were at the Australian Championships
in Adelaide. I was playing for New South Wales.
We won. And then they said, all of these players,
please join the coach in this room. So they'd
virtually announced the Australian squad. Now,
I'd been in the Australian squad beforehand.
I'd played games for Australia. So I was kind
of in the Australian team, but I was on the edge
because I was young. In and out. In and out.
Yes. And so they had an established goalkeeper.
And then I was fighting, I guess, for the second
place. And then they took us all into the room
and we're all standing there. And the captain,
Chris Whitebrow, one of the most amazing players
Australia's ever had, and just a genuinely lovely
human being, he walked up to me and he said,
congratulations. And I said, oh, thanks, mate.
And he said, you've got no idea, do you? And
I went... what what and he said have a look around
the room and i did and again i looked at my what
and he said how many goalkeepers are in this
room and i looked around i said two and he said
they only take two to the olympics mate you just
made the olympic team and i was in shock I was
in shock. That's how I discovered I was in the
Olympic team. Somebody else had to point it out
to me that they only ever take two goalkeepers
and there was only two in the room. And it was
a really lovely experience. One, because Chris
was the person that delivered it and I hold him
in very high regard. But two, the fact that I'd
achieved a dream that I wasn't really... You
didn't know you were dreaming. I wasn't clawing
for it. It wasn't like it was, if it happened,
it happened sort of thing. But then... From then
on, I was going to claw tooth and nail for everything
that came my way. I actually didn't want to,
because I did feel a bit embarrassed that I didn't
know. So I never wanted to feel that way again.
So that's when I guess I started to claw, you
know, tooth, claw and nail. Tooth and nail? Tooth
and nail. Yeah, whatever the saying is, Michelle,
but I'm really not doing... Claws and teeth and
nails. Yeah, scrambling, scrambling for. Anyway,
so from then on, I was quite goal driven. But
prior to that, I hadn't been. Goals are an interesting
thing. Yours were ignited at seven. Mine kind
of came along on the journey. But they're important
because they give you direction. They give you
something to work towards. And you don't have
to have a goal. Like my goal at seven, okay,
I realized it. And I have so many more. dreams
and goals that you haven't achieved not not yet
no i'm on my way and i have achieved other dreams
and goals so it's just a constantly evolving
continuing to strive for something um yeah which
makes well it gives me my personality type um
a reason to get up every morning um even when
we do our you know you were talking about dilbert
the scott adams was saying how you know the um
what is it having the uh routine routines is
where happiness happens so goals just create
direction so the fact that every morning we play
Backgammon. And, you know, we have a coffee and
we go for a walk. All of those routines definitely
create a fantastic foundation for the day. The
morning vitamin drink. Yeah, it is. And it's
the fact that it's a routine. So something to
look forward to. I don't actually have to think
about because it's routine. It's a habit. But
it is the best way for me to start the day. Yeah.
So if you can cultivate your daily routine, what
you do every morning. and put it into a format
where you don't need to think about it. So the
night before you go to bed, put the lemon on
the bench, put the glass and the water that you're
going to be putting with the lemon and maybe
the salt. This sounds amazing, Guy, but we don't
do that. We don't have to, but we don't have
to. No, we don't because we do the thing. Before
we started having a vitamin drink, you might
remember that we had lemon and salt every morning.
We don't do that anymore because we've replaced
it with a vitamin drink, but I used to put the
lemon on the table. on the bench downstairs until
it became a habit. Yes, you're right. So habit
stacking. Yes. Yes. So if people want to know
more about habit stacking, they need to read
the book by James Clear. What's it called? Atomic
Habits. Atomic Habits. Yes, yes. About habit
stacking. Anyway, I think that was a nice little
story. Thank you for sharing with our listeners
when your dream was ignited. Yeah, thanks, Guy.
And you too. Yeah. That was fun. Yeah. And if
you're hearing noises, we're going with the less
AI smoothing of voices. And you'll hear cicadas,
geckos, dogs barking. People screaming. Yeah.
And they're white water rafters. Just down from
us. About 50 metres down from us. There's a rapid.
There's a river. Yes. So that's what you're hearing.
And should we mention again the retreat that
we're holding here next year? Sure. Yes, okay.
We don't know what it's called. We don't know
what it's called yet. We will come up with a
fancy title, but it won't be one of those overused
titles. But essentially, we're going to be teaching
two things. We're going to be teaching confidence
and anti -fragility. So we're going to be deep
diving into... the concept of true confidence
as opposed to contextual confidence contextual
confidence is the confidence you have when you
have skills knowledge or experience in a particular
area or a particular context yes but true confidence
is applicable everywhere and my book is almost
complete and it has the formula on how to how
to achieve true confidence get to that point
where um you know I don't want to give away the
formula here in the podcast. You don't need to.
Yeah, because it's not completed quite yet. And
then anti -fragility, the thing that we spend
a long time teaching. Better than resilience.
It's better than resilience. Resilience, you
just bounce back. But anti -fragility, you come
back stronger. Yeah. So we're going to be spending
a week over here next year. So we're not quite
sure on the length of the workshop, probably
three or four days. But anyway, we will send
out information as it comes. All right, our sponsors,
Lindt, who have bows and who's the third one?
Bollinger. Bollinger, yeah. Where are you? We're
still waiting. Hayes Chocolate might be getting
a run. We might be mentioning Hayes Chocolate
if Lindt doesn't reach out to us soon. Have a
great day, everyone. Bye. Bye. Well, that was
fun. That was fun. You're such a clown. The clown.
Lady Captain. There we go. And who's going to
listen to this? Maybe our mums. Thanks, Mum.