WEBVTT 00:00:00.810 --> 00:00:05.549 G'day leaders. We had to overcome some perfectionism 00:00:05.549 --> 00:00:08.330 to get this podcast to you. We've been trying 00:00:08.330 --> 00:00:11.970 some video and it didn't work and we had to give 00:00:11.970 --> 00:00:14.689 ourselves a big kick up the bum to get another 00:00:14.689 --> 00:00:18.989 podcast out because as you'll hear in this podcast, 00:00:19.510 --> 00:00:22.449 we've been aiming for perfectionism, which has 00:00:22.449 --> 00:00:25.250 been a silly thing. We're going to share with 00:00:25.250 --> 00:00:27.309 you some strategies on overcoming perfectionism 00:00:27.309 --> 00:00:29.850 while we do it and hopefully learn some stuff 00:00:29.850 --> 00:00:33.909 along the way. Enjoy. Why did it count backwards? 00:00:34.969 --> 00:00:40.469 We're now recording. What? Hello, Captain. Come 00:00:40.469 --> 00:00:50.310 fly with me. Let's fly, let's fly. What are we 00:00:50.310 --> 00:00:53.049 going to talk about? I don't know. Leadership. 00:00:53.869 --> 00:01:02.250 Life and everything else. Yeah. And we're live! 00:01:02.770 --> 00:01:05.409 Finally! Finally. Finally. It's been a while. 00:01:05.730 --> 00:01:08.689 What's been holding us back? Ah, perfectionism. 00:01:08.829 --> 00:01:11.590 Oh my goodness. We teach this and yet we got 00:01:11.590 --> 00:01:15.090 caught up in it. I know. We've been told for 00:01:15.090 --> 00:01:18.870 over a year to get video happening for our podcasts. 00:01:19.150 --> 00:01:22.049 Yeah. And so we thought, we'll do it. Yep. So 00:01:22.049 --> 00:01:26.579 we downloaded... AI apps and recording recording 00:01:26.579 --> 00:01:31.500 new equipment and tripods and and we had a few 00:01:31.500 --> 00:01:33.819 goes at it but because it wasn't we've had many 00:01:33.819 --> 00:01:36.480 goes at it but because it wasn't to the level 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:39.239 that we wanted we uh oh we'll do it again we'll 00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:43.599 yes and so hence the big delay in episodes I 00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:46.859 know so we've decided to come back to audio To 00:01:46.859 --> 00:01:49.519 let you know what's happening. And then in the 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:51.439 background work on figuring out how to use some 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:53.920 of these apps. I've got a background in IT. I 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:56.500 started before Microsoft Windows was released. 00:01:56.680 --> 00:01:59.180 I've been doing this technology stuff for a long 00:01:59.180 --> 00:02:02.680 time, but yet some of the apps that I'm downloading 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:04.280 at the moment, you have to watch, obviously, 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:07.359 they put out these videos, but the videos make 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:09.259 it look too simple because when you go to the 00:02:09.259 --> 00:02:11.139 app and you go, hold on a second, it didn't refer 00:02:11.139 --> 00:02:13.400 to that particular setting or it doesn't even 00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:15.020 tell you what that setting is. And unless you've 00:02:15.020 --> 00:02:17.400 got a... background in videography or whatever 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:20.240 it is that is required yeah so we're finding 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:22.719 it quite difficult aren't we and look at us throwing 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:26.979 out all the all the excuses i know yeah we could 00:02:26.979 --> 00:02:28.919 have just filmed it with our phones and use a 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:31.539 really poor sound and and throwing it out there 00:02:31.539 --> 00:02:34.569 but Because we watch a lot of podcasts online 00:02:34.569 --> 00:02:37.169 and listen to a lot of podcasts. We want it to 00:02:37.169 --> 00:02:39.490 be perfect. Yeah, we want it to be like all of 00:02:39.490 --> 00:02:42.009 those brilliant podcasts out there who have five 00:02:42.009 --> 00:02:45.370 sound engineers, five videographers. We may need 00:02:45.370 --> 00:02:47.069 to get some professionals in, but we thought 00:02:47.069 --> 00:02:50.520 we could do it. Yeah, we did. We did. The topic 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:53.759 today is what holds you back? Yes, that perfectionism. 00:02:53.979 --> 00:02:57.900 And then it gives you, it's almost like, what's 00:02:57.900 --> 00:03:01.879 it called? There's a saying where you're almost, 00:03:02.259 --> 00:03:05.539 what is it? Like you're not petrified, but you're 00:03:05.539 --> 00:03:09.240 paralyzed. Paralyzed from choice and paralyzed 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:11.099 by fear. By fear. Well, that's what it is. All 00:03:11.099 --> 00:03:14.900 procrastination, and we teach this, is all procrastination 00:03:14.900 --> 00:03:18.520 is based on fear. Yeah. Yeah. So if something's... 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:22.860 too big the fear the underlying fear is that 00:03:22.860 --> 00:03:25.680 it takes up too much of your energy too much 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:28.419 of your it's insurmountable it's insurmountable 00:03:28.419 --> 00:03:31.080 so your biology says no no no choose the easier 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:32.919 thing over there because that one's going to 00:03:32.919 --> 00:03:35.800 be you know much less energy to do it or if it's 00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:39.860 too hard you fear failure yeah but in in the 00:03:39.860 --> 00:03:42.659 case of perfectionism what is it that's the fear 00:03:43.519 --> 00:03:46.460 Well, I've been looking at this. So we know about 00:03:46.460 --> 00:03:48.580 the insurmountable that you break it down into 00:03:48.580 --> 00:03:50.219 bite -sized pieces. You know, how do you eat 00:03:50.219 --> 00:03:52.120 an elephant one bite at a time? Don't eat elephants. 00:03:52.379 --> 00:03:54.259 No, that's right. We don't eat elephants or a 00:03:54.259 --> 00:03:57.039 big eggplant or whatever it is. Lao Tzu said 00:03:57.039 --> 00:03:58.620 the longest journey begins with a single step. 00:03:58.780 --> 00:04:03.580 Yes, yes. And we haven't paid attention to that. 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:06.259 No. No, we're just seeing the end result that 00:04:06.259 --> 00:04:09.080 we want in our mind and we want to get there 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:13.460 in one step. Now, what were you saying about 00:04:13.460 --> 00:04:17.439 the... Yeah. Yeah, so this perfectionism is, 00:04:17.540 --> 00:04:22.500 I think, I know for myself that I have a habit, 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:26.920 had a habit of looking at things in a binary 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:31.660 sort of situation. So if I hadn't succeeded how 00:04:31.660 --> 00:04:34.680 in my mind what success looked like, then I'd 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:39.000 failed. Okay. Even though I'd succeeded in every 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:43.439 other metric. it still hadn't met my metric for 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:46.680 success, so therefore I'd failed. Which is the 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:49.079 problem that a lot of people have. We're all 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:51.639 encouraged to set very clear goals, have a very 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:54.389 clear vision of what you want to achieve. But 00:04:54.389 --> 00:04:56.910 that can sometimes stop you from putting things 00:04:56.910 --> 00:04:59.730 out or moving forward because if it's not exactly 00:04:59.730 --> 00:05:01.850 as you had pictured in your mind, you go, no, 00:05:01.970 --> 00:05:04.629 it wasn't good enough and you don't move forward. 00:05:05.050 --> 00:05:07.509 So there's contrary advice out there. So, yes, 00:05:07.569 --> 00:05:11.230 have an idea, but just fail forward fast. I know. 00:05:11.290 --> 00:05:13.430 That's it. So when I was at kindercare, that's 00:05:13.430 --> 00:05:18.029 what we did. You know, the app that we created, 00:05:18.389 --> 00:05:21.470 we failed forward fast. Now, we were nimble. 00:05:21.509 --> 00:05:24.449 We were very small. You could touch your toes. 00:05:24.610 --> 00:05:33.970 Yes, I could. Sorry, Ben. Ben couldn't. And we 00:05:33.970 --> 00:05:37.829 also had a very tight budget, so it made you 00:05:37.829 --> 00:05:42.410 creative because you had to become innovative. 00:05:42.850 --> 00:05:44.910 Through necessity. Yeah, absolutely. We didn't 00:05:44.910 --> 00:05:48.269 have wads of cash to splash around and to get 00:05:48.269 --> 00:05:52.019 others in to do it. And it does. It makes you 00:05:52.019 --> 00:05:56.279 very, very creative, innovative, resourceful. 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:58.459 So do you think that the smaller the organization, 00:05:58.860 --> 00:06:01.860 the more innovative they're going to be because 00:06:01.860 --> 00:06:04.759 it's out of necessity where you don't really 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:07.800 have the opportunity to sit down and figure it 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:10.000 out and make it perfect before you actually release 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:12.160 it or whatever? Do you think that's... Look, 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:17.759 that's a bold statement, but I... heading that 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:21.699 way of thinking I'm thinking like big organizations 00:06:21.699 --> 00:06:24.740 great and they have innovation in their manifesto 00:06:24.740 --> 00:06:28.439 and they yes that's right they believe in innovation 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:35.750 but what I'm coming to see is that smaller companies 00:06:35.750 --> 00:06:39.509 or smaller businesses or businesses that have 00:06:39.509 --> 00:06:43.509 that mindset still of they're being small. They're 00:06:43.509 --> 00:06:48.430 not this global conglomerate. They do take on 00:06:48.430 --> 00:06:52.490 the fail forward fast and they're like James 00:06:52.490 --> 00:06:55.069 Dyson, for example. We've spoken about him before. 00:06:55.170 --> 00:07:01.009 Over 5 ,100 failed prototypes of the vacuum cleaner, 00:07:01.069 --> 00:07:04.970 but he has gone back. to some of those failures 00:07:04.970 --> 00:07:08.470 and reworked for you know and failed but come 00:07:08.470 --> 00:07:11.610 up with other products so it was never in vain 00:07:11.610 --> 00:07:15.810 yeah and the mindset there of that business is 00:07:15.810 --> 00:07:18.750 that it's not failure as such okay you didn't 00:07:18.750 --> 00:07:21.170 get the product in that go but you've learned 00:07:21.170 --> 00:07:26.350 something yeah and We've learnt with our podcasting 00:07:26.350 --> 00:07:29.449 that maybe that app or that ad, they were very 00:07:29.449 --> 00:07:32.529 creative for the AI product that we purchased 00:07:32.529 --> 00:07:36.310 because it made us believe that it was an easy 00:07:36.310 --> 00:07:39.509 thing when really it wasn't. Just press record 00:07:39.509 --> 00:07:41.589 and click. It does it all for you. No, it doesn't. 00:07:41.589 --> 00:07:42.730 There's a lot of work in the background that 00:07:42.730 --> 00:07:48.819 you don't get told. So we need to heed our own 00:07:48.819 --> 00:07:53.240 advice. But we're human. Often. We're human. 00:07:53.540 --> 00:07:56.040 Well, I often say this in training that, you 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:58.579 know, for example, I come home and I might be 00:07:58.579 --> 00:08:00.259 stressed and then I think to myself, oh, you 00:08:00.259 --> 00:08:04.319 idiot, you teach this stuff. And so, yeah, we've 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:06.459 got to heed our own advice as to what's holding 00:08:06.459 --> 00:08:09.660 us back. Now, I'm more guilty than you. And I'll 00:08:09.660 --> 00:08:12.139 tell you why. Why? Because in August this year, 00:08:12.180 --> 00:08:17.439 your book is going to be released. Yes. The publisher 00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:20.899 has given you the final copy, I believe. No, 00:08:20.980 --> 00:08:23.540 where are you at? No. You tell me. So I've got 00:08:23.540 --> 00:08:27.240 a copy, that limited edition. It's only available 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:32.840 for people who attend any... any talks or workshops. 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:34.299 So you've got a few keynotes coming up. So, okay, 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:36.100 they can access it there. They can. But then 00:08:36.100 --> 00:08:38.460 the final version will be released in August. 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:42.240 How exciting is that? It is. Yeah. So that's 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:44.860 been two years in the making. Yes. It's extraordinary. 00:08:45.139 --> 00:08:47.080 And your book, Guy. Okay, well, that's where 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:52.120 I was going to, Michelle. So your book was completed 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:55.519 in two years. I've been writing books for... 00:08:56.230 --> 00:09:01.309 30 years. And none published because I hear my 00:09:01.309 --> 00:09:03.570 own excuses as I tell them. So I'll tell you 00:09:03.570 --> 00:09:05.549 my excuses. So when I was young, I started writing 00:09:05.549 --> 00:09:07.049 books because I wanted to be an author. I wanted 00:09:07.049 --> 00:09:08.509 to write books. I wanted to share knowledge. 00:09:08.549 --> 00:09:10.610 You've got a degree in journalism. Yes, I do 00:09:10.610 --> 00:09:12.669 have a degree in journalism. So I think I'm fairly 00:09:12.669 --> 00:09:16.799 good with words, putting them on paper. My purpose, 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:20.100 the reason why I wanted to write books is to 00:09:20.100 --> 00:09:23.159 share wisdom. So I, when I was younger, described 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:25.899 myself as the conduit of others' wisdom. So this 00:09:25.899 --> 00:09:28.779 is not my wisdom. I read books. I listen to podcasts. 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:32.799 I go to seminars. I devour information. I put 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:35.820 it into my brain so that I can understand it, 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:37.320 and then I share it with other people. That's 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:38.919 what I've been doing my whole life, and that's 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:41.789 what I love doing. Well, you link. many ideas 00:09:41.789 --> 00:09:46.090 that people have about potentially one concept 00:09:46.090 --> 00:09:50.230 and make it... One, easy for you to understand. 00:09:50.690 --> 00:09:54.950 Yeah, but two, so ideas that were previous and 00:09:54.950 --> 00:09:57.450 up -and -coming ideas and meld those together. 00:09:57.570 --> 00:10:00.649 Yeah, so my brain is a melting pot of wisdom 00:10:00.649 --> 00:10:03.710 that has been sourced from other places and I 00:10:03.710 --> 00:10:06.950 see my job as to distill it into digestible, 00:10:07.090 --> 00:10:10.429 learnable chunks that people can go off and implement. 00:10:10.570 --> 00:10:15.470 You've written... 26 of own workshops and that's 00:10:15.470 --> 00:10:18.490 your ip yes it is so okay so i'm an author if 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:20.389 you're talking about the workshops that i've 00:10:20.389 --> 00:10:23.629 authored but a book that sits in a bookstore 00:10:23.629 --> 00:10:26.809 there isn't any at the moment that has guy newman 00:10:26.809 --> 00:10:29.269 on the spine but there's okay these are my reasons 00:10:29.269 --> 00:10:30.789 all right so when i was young i didn't think 00:10:30.789 --> 00:10:33.350 i knew enough All right. Yes. And so these books 00:10:33.350 --> 00:10:35.669 are binary thinking. It's binary thinking. I 00:10:35.669 --> 00:10:37.450 didn't think I knew enough. So I wanted more 00:10:37.450 --> 00:10:39.830 experience, more knowledge, more time in front 00:10:39.830 --> 00:10:42.250 of the classroom, learning from them, passing 00:10:42.250 --> 00:10:45.129 on the wisdom, reading more books. Yeah. Filling 00:10:45.129 --> 00:10:47.370 my head full of knowledge. And then so I've been 00:10:47.370 --> 00:10:49.490 writing many books over the years. So I've got 00:10:49.490 --> 00:10:52.389 a leadership book that's slowly working away 00:10:52.389 --> 00:10:54.730 in the background. As you know, the one that 00:10:54.730 --> 00:10:57.190 I'm most passionate about at the moment is True 00:10:57.190 --> 00:11:00.669 Confidence or Fidence, taking the con out of 00:11:00.669 --> 00:11:04.740 confidence. I've got books on resilience. So 00:11:04.740 --> 00:11:06.639 I've got all these books that I'm slowly writing 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:08.279 in the background based on the workshops that 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:10.919 we teach. But I've always thought that I don't 00:11:10.919 --> 00:11:13.200 have enough of the knowledge yet. Or maybe, I 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:15.480 thought this the other day, maybe there's a subconscious 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:18.279 mindset that says, hold on, you haven't learned 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:21.740 everything yet. That there is a destination of 00:11:21.740 --> 00:11:25.580 knowledge. And listening to my own advice, I 00:11:25.580 --> 00:11:27.820 have to admit, there is no destination of knowledge. 00:11:28.019 --> 00:11:30.600 You need to fail forward fast. Or in other words, 00:11:30.700 --> 00:11:33.460 I should take the information I have at the moment 00:11:33.460 --> 00:11:37.139 and put a book out. And I know my fear. And I've 00:11:37.139 --> 00:11:41.539 meditated on this for many years that if I put 00:11:41.539 --> 00:11:44.440 it out, I can't change it. Well, yes, you can. 00:11:44.659 --> 00:11:47.240 Well, okay. All right. Second edition. Third 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:49.960 edition. Exactly. You can. That seems like a 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:53.399 lot of work. It's not. I'm very lucky. I have 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:56.379 a great publisher. Yes. And they have said to 00:11:56.379 --> 00:11:57.759 me. They have been amazing, haven't they? They 00:11:57.759 --> 00:12:00.740 have. And they have said to me, so this version 00:12:00.740 --> 00:12:03.539 that is coming out, it's actually next week. 00:12:03.620 --> 00:12:07.360 So it will be available at my talks as of next 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:12.240 week. It's been great because you can kind of 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:14.820 get used to it, get a feel for it, read through 00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:16.899 it, see what does and doesn't work, get some 00:12:16.899 --> 00:12:21.440 feedback from actual readers and then, you know, 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:24.720 add to it, change it, you know, other things. 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:27.740 Yesterday we were at lunch with an aviation great, 00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:31.220 Richard de Krepny, and he was telling us about 00:12:31.220 --> 00:12:34.059 his books and his writing journey and how... 00:12:34.490 --> 00:12:37.529 He's got a number of editions and his first book 00:12:37.529 --> 00:12:43.169 that he wrote, he wrote in response to QF32. 00:12:43.570 --> 00:12:45.750 Yeah, the famous flight. That's right. Where 00:12:45.750 --> 00:12:47.929 he was the captain. Yeah, and then he realised 00:12:47.929 --> 00:12:50.490 after that there was more that needed to be told. 00:12:50.610 --> 00:12:53.240 So he... produced another book on resilience 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:56.080 yes yeah and he's by the sounds of it he's still 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:59.379 going that's right yeah so yeah you're right 00:12:59.379 --> 00:13:02.080 i guess i can have multiple revisions and multiple 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:05.000 books but yeah there's just this idea we can 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.860 come up with many ideas to get to counter your 00:13:07.860 --> 00:13:11.139 true true true and you might need to slap me 00:13:11.139 --> 00:13:14.039 over the head with a few of them because with 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:18.259 training I can do a course. I did a critical 00:13:18.259 --> 00:13:21.039 thinking course two days ago. You gave a critical 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:24.639 thinking course. Thursday. Two days ago. And 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.980 during that course, I've run it now hundreds, 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:33.320 possibly thousands of times. It's different to 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:35.399 the first time I ran it. And I love that about 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:37.879 training because every single time I teach it, 00:13:37.980 --> 00:13:40.539 I learn something either from the students or 00:13:40.539 --> 00:13:42.600 from the look on their face when I try and explain 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:44.419 it in one way. And then I go, oh, that didn't 00:13:44.419 --> 00:13:47.799 hit. So I'll explain it a different way. Or I'll 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:50.480 try the exercise like this. That works. Oh, I'll 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:51.940 try the exercise like this. That doesn't work. 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.840 And so every single day I get to change my workshops. 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:57.120 And I love that. I get up out of bed to go and 00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:00.340 teach the thing that I've maybe taught. 10 000 00:14:00.340 --> 00:14:02.659 times depending on which course it is some more 00:14:02.659 --> 00:14:05.500 than others but i know that i can change it i 00:14:05.500 --> 00:14:07.620 can adjust it i can improve it constantly whereas 00:14:07.620 --> 00:14:10.120 a book is a fixed thing that sits on the shelf 00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:12.659 and i can't reach into people's lounge rooms 00:14:12.659 --> 00:14:14.299 or libraries or wherever they store their books 00:14:14.299 --> 00:14:16.659 okay and change the words i'm going to counter 00:14:16.659 --> 00:14:21.340 this because people read differently so the emphasis 00:14:21.340 --> 00:14:24.919 the emphasis for a particular reader will be 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:26.740 different for everybody. Based on where they 00:14:26.740 --> 00:14:28.600 are at that point in their life. Correct, correct. 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:31.740 Have you read a book a second time? Yes. Yeah, 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.039 I've read books 10 times and each time it's like 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:35.659 I'm reading it for the first time. Yes, because 00:14:35.659 --> 00:14:37.019 you're in a different stage. Because I'm in a 00:14:37.019 --> 00:14:39.539 different stage of my life. I'm a shell, you 00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:42.059 may have unlocked something in me. There you 00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:45.320 go. Where's the typewriter? Do we still use typewriters? 00:14:45.500 --> 00:14:46.360 I thought we've got one under the stairs. Did 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:48.370 you ever use one? Yeah, there's one under the 00:14:48.370 --> 00:14:50.409 stairs. Yeah, but you're that two -finger typer. 00:14:50.509 --> 00:14:52.590 That must have been really... Three. I use my 00:14:52.590 --> 00:14:56.909 thumb for the space bar. For the space bar, yeah. 00:14:57.629 --> 00:14:59.470 Touch typing, Michelle, I told you. Or you can 00:14:59.470 --> 00:15:02.750 just say it. You can transcribe now. Anyway, 00:15:02.809 --> 00:15:04.850 let's go back to what holds people back. So, 00:15:04.850 --> 00:15:09.870 okay. So what's holding me back in that situation 00:15:09.870 --> 00:15:13.909 is the silly underlying thought that once the 00:15:13.909 --> 00:15:17.149 book is published that it can't be changed. And 00:15:17.149 --> 00:15:19.330 so that's silly because, like we just discussed, 00:15:19.590 --> 00:15:21.629 that you can do multiple revisions. Every time 00:15:21.629 --> 00:15:23.350 people read it, they're going to read it differently 00:15:23.350 --> 00:15:26.470 based on where they are in life. And so this 00:15:26.470 --> 00:15:28.049 is a quick little shout -out to everyone who 00:15:28.049 --> 00:15:29.549 has read a great book in the past. Go back and 00:15:29.549 --> 00:15:30.889 read it again and watch what happens. You'll 00:15:30.889 --> 00:15:33.950 have a completely different experience. And no 00:15:33.950 --> 00:15:35.149 doubt they'll have that experience when your 00:15:35.149 --> 00:15:37.830 book comes out. Hopefully. Oh, they will. Every 00:15:37.830 --> 00:15:39.750 time I've read it, and I've read it many, many, 00:15:39.750 --> 00:15:43.870 many times now. It's been edited many times. 00:15:43.889 --> 00:15:45.710 Yes. Well, we weren't trying to make it perfect, 00:15:45.769 --> 00:15:47.110 though, were we? Well, that was a trap because 00:15:47.110 --> 00:15:50.309 there was that over -editing initially by us 00:15:50.309 --> 00:15:53.529 before we actually outsourced and got it edited 00:15:53.529 --> 00:15:58.129 by professionals. Yeah, so Talia and Sarah. Sarah, 00:15:58.190 --> 00:16:00.490 yes. Wow, we were so lucky to have two fabulous 00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:03.409 editors. Editors. Yeah, it goes through the book. 00:16:03.429 --> 00:16:05.529 Well, Talia's at the beginning of her editing. 00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:08.799 career yeah and then sarah newton john i'm just 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:11.220 name dropping there olivia's sister olivia's 00:16:11.220 --> 00:16:15.879 sister she is a industry expert yeah and she 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:19.259 edited it and wow it's you know you see it in 00:16:19.259 --> 00:16:21.960 a completely different light once it has been 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:24.120 done professionally and we had to hold ourselves 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:26.799 getting it edited and proofread dozens of times 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:31.240 didn't we yeah but again your desire for it to 00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:35.029 be perfect or at least be the best it possibly 00:16:35.029 --> 00:16:40.769 can be, where does that come from? Probably psychologically 00:16:40.769 --> 00:16:44.909 my childhood or something like that. Well, but 00:16:44.909 --> 00:16:47.070 I'm sure that there's an element in you, which 00:16:47.070 --> 00:16:49.990 is in me, that when you're giving something out 00:16:49.990 --> 00:16:53.029 to the world which reflects you, you want it 00:16:53.029 --> 00:16:55.440 to be the best version of you possible. Yeah. 00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:59.220 Yeah. Because ultimately, and I will openly admit 00:16:59.220 --> 00:17:03.639 this, everything that brings fear into the average 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:07.359 adult's brain, including me, is the fear of judgment. 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.859 It is the biggest fear because we don't like 00:17:10.859 --> 00:17:14.660 being judged. We like feeling as though we're 00:17:14.660 --> 00:17:20.039 not admired but respected or valued or that we 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:23.599 belong. Yeah, and so anything that I put out 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:25.400 there, there is always going to be an underlying 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:28.079 fear of judgment. Oh, someone might not like 00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:32.059 it. I know, but I have that. And you remind me, 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:35.319 seriously, Michelle, they're not really thinking 00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:38.559 about you. Because we are all the center of our 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:40.779 own universe. People think about us a lot less 00:17:40.779 --> 00:17:45.079 than what we fear. But perfectionists out there, 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.660 how do they fix it? How do we fix perfectionism? 00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:52.440 So I'm working through this at the moment and 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:58.859 I think it's got to be almost that you need to 00:17:58.859 --> 00:18:02.240 break it down into three or four parts, like 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:07.940 a metric where what you, and you mentioned it 00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:09.940 before, you know, we have these goals, these 00:18:09.940 --> 00:18:13.160 ideals and ideas of what success looks like. 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:16.089 Yeah. So I think there needs to be some sort 00:18:16.089 --> 00:18:19.529 of metric where what failure is. So failure is 00:18:19.529 --> 00:18:22.170 you didn't attempt, you didn't do whatever, you 00:18:22.170 --> 00:18:27.289 died, depending on what it is. And then it needs 00:18:27.289 --> 00:18:29.690 to be, you know, something like average, good 00:18:29.690 --> 00:18:34.009 and exceptional. So you've got, so the next thing 00:18:34.009 --> 00:18:36.450 from failure, whatever you've determined failure 00:18:36.450 --> 00:18:40.480 is, is actually a pass or success. But then there 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:43.200 are variations of what success could be. So you 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:51.140 may not be happy with how it happened or the 00:18:51.140 --> 00:18:57.279 end result, but it's still success. Okay. So 00:18:57.279 --> 00:18:59.819 it's that fail -forward -fast sort of mindset. 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:03.880 Yeah. Okay. So what I suggest with perfectionism 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.160 is that, and you and I are both experiencing 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.779 this now, When you're in the middle of it, you 00:19:09.779 --> 00:19:15.380 can't let go. No. So what the secret is, is that 00:19:15.380 --> 00:19:18.140 before you start, you determine when you're going 00:19:18.140 --> 00:19:20.380 to stop. That's right. So how long are you going 00:19:20.380 --> 00:19:22.210 to give yourself? And what does it look like 00:19:22.210 --> 00:19:24.710 when you're going to finish? And if what it looks 00:19:24.710 --> 00:19:27.730 like when you're finished is perfection, then 00:19:27.730 --> 00:19:29.690 maybe you need to sit there and be more realistic, 00:19:29.730 --> 00:19:31.869 as you were just saying. So give yourself some 00:19:31.869 --> 00:19:34.549 different metrics. What is good enough or what 00:19:34.549 --> 00:19:36.529 is going to move me forward or what is going 00:19:36.529 --> 00:19:40.369 to be my first attempt? Yeah, because it's... 00:19:41.259 --> 00:19:43.579 Well, I had colleagues who, you know, the pass 00:19:43.579 --> 00:19:47.779 mark was 70 % in an exam, a theory exam, 70 out 00:19:47.779 --> 00:19:52.019 of 70%. And if they got 70%, they were like, 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:54.500 that's a job well done. I didn't put too much 00:19:54.500 --> 00:19:56.960 effort into it. I was, you know, economical with 00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.559 my effort. I've done as required and I can now 00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:01.680 concentrate on something else. Whereas I was 00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:05.980 unhappy if I didn't get 100%. Yeah. Well, so 00:20:05.980 --> 00:20:11.240 there's a really important aspect to that. the 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.460 effort required to get 100 % in everything, what 00:20:14.460 --> 00:20:18.660 are you sacrificing? Yeah. So you think about 00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:22.450 the... who doesn't spend time with their family, 00:20:22.589 --> 00:20:24.869 their loved ones, their hobbies, their friends, 00:20:25.109 --> 00:20:28.710 their fitness, because they're aiming for perfection 00:20:28.710 --> 00:20:32.190 in one area of their life whilst all the other 00:20:32.190 --> 00:20:35.190 areas of their life are being sacrificed. And 00:20:35.190 --> 00:20:38.109 that's something you often see in perfectionists 00:20:38.109 --> 00:20:42.809 where they get so narrow focused, so one track. 00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:45.740 that they ignore all of the other tracks, the 00:20:45.740 --> 00:20:48.599 other areas of their life, so they suffer. So 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:50.420 then they have to pull themselves out of this 00:20:50.420 --> 00:20:52.700 completed perfect thing, whatever it may be, 00:20:52.859 --> 00:20:54.700 jump into one of the other tracks and try and 00:20:54.700 --> 00:20:58.220 fix the lack of attention to it. By giving everything 00:20:58.220 --> 00:21:00.160 to that. By giving everything to that whilst 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.240 something else suffers rather than the mindset 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:06.779 of spreading your attention and your energy across 00:21:06.779 --> 00:21:09.079 all of the areas in your life that are important. 00:21:10.329 --> 00:21:14.569 And being good enough, not perfect in each one. 00:21:14.829 --> 00:21:17.529 Yeah, we should all be aiming for good enough 00:21:17.529 --> 00:21:22.529 and maybe perfecting things when we're a heart 00:21:22.529 --> 00:21:26.210 surgeon or a neurosurgeon. So if you're a neurosurgeon, 00:21:26.269 --> 00:21:29.369 please, when you're in there, be perfect. Be 00:21:29.369 --> 00:21:32.569 perfect. And a shout out to my sister who is 00:21:32.569 --> 00:21:36.670 just about to have brain surgery for the fourth 00:21:36.670 --> 00:21:41.680 or fifth time. So fingers crossed that it's successful 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:45.119 this time. Or when I say successful, each one's 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:47.319 been successful, but it doesn't keep recurring 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:50.480 as it does. Because that would be harrowing. 00:21:51.099 --> 00:21:52.839 Harrowing for what she's going through today. 00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:55.640 All thoughts out to a successful outcome there. 00:21:56.819 --> 00:21:59.700 So unless you're a brain surgeon or a heart doctor 00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:03.579 or somebody who has my life in their hands, a 00:22:03.579 --> 00:22:08.940 pilot, please, please get to... perfect or what 00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:12.240 is expected as well pilots you know there's a 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:15.279 there's a off the cuff saying that yeah and an 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:16.880 aircraft's always going to land it's whether 00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:19.119 you can use it again or not is the the thing 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:22.720 so the the outcome is that you can like the outcome 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:25.160 that you want yeah is that you can use the aircraft 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:27.940 again okay so any landing that that you can walk 00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:30.819 away from is a good one and any that you can 00:22:30.819 --> 00:22:34.509 use the aircraft again is a great one yeah We 00:22:34.509 --> 00:22:36.890 had a similar thing in the circus. And you were 00:22:36.890 --> 00:22:39.009 just talking about that, aiming for perfection. 00:22:39.150 --> 00:22:41.509 So you would think in a circus that you want 00:22:41.509 --> 00:22:44.269 to get things perfect when you're doing a performance. 00:22:44.490 --> 00:22:47.910 So I was a juggler, as you know. And we had this 00:22:47.910 --> 00:22:51.289 routine that we did in the juggling. It was a 00:22:51.289 --> 00:22:53.349 club routine. So we're juggling three clubs each. 00:22:54.910 --> 00:22:57.609 Yeah, four of us. And so we had this routine 00:22:57.609 --> 00:23:00.630 where one person is standing there and the three 00:23:00.630 --> 00:23:03.750 of us are throwing clubs to them while we're 00:23:03.750 --> 00:23:06.190 juggling our own. And then we'd move and then 00:23:06.190 --> 00:23:09.349 the next person would be throwing the clubs and 00:23:09.349 --> 00:23:12.009 then move again and then the next person. And 00:23:12.009 --> 00:23:14.069 then we'd stand in a square and we'd be juggling 00:23:14.069 --> 00:23:16.269 to the person opposite us and then to the side 00:23:16.269 --> 00:23:18.690 of us and then over the top of. And it was this 00:23:18.690 --> 00:23:22.829 huge routine. And we failed nearly every show. 00:23:23.369 --> 00:23:25.750 we somebody would drop and we just we just pick 00:23:25.750 --> 00:23:27.650 up from where we were so we pick up the clubs 00:23:27.650 --> 00:23:30.210 and start again and finish the routine and put 00:23:30.210 --> 00:23:31.930 our hands up and the audience would clap and 00:23:31.930 --> 00:23:33.650 go oh look at those kids throwing things in the 00:23:33.650 --> 00:23:36.410 air But there was one day, I remember this, and 00:23:36.410 --> 00:23:38.730 it will live with me forever. We're doing the 00:23:38.730 --> 00:23:42.269 act. And we're used to dropping things. We're 00:23:42.269 --> 00:23:44.410 used to picking up from where we went. We were 00:23:44.410 --> 00:23:46.710 always aiming for perfection, and that is to 00:23:46.710 --> 00:23:49.390 not drop a club. And this one particular show, 00:23:49.589 --> 00:23:51.789 you know, we're looking at each other going, 00:23:51.970 --> 00:23:55.049 we're doing it. We're doing it. Nobody's dropped 00:23:55.049 --> 00:23:56.750 anything. And then I'm thinking to myself, stop 00:23:56.750 --> 00:23:58.769 thinking like that. And then focus, focus, focus, 00:23:58.869 --> 00:24:00.690 catch, catch, throw, catch, throw, catch, throw. 00:24:00.890 --> 00:24:03.509 And then as we're getting closer to the end of... 00:24:03.819 --> 00:24:06.579 You could feel the tension. The band, who were 00:24:06.579 --> 00:24:08.559 amazing. We always had the best bands in the 00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:11.440 circus. I could feel their energy going up because 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:13.200 they're going, they're going to make it. And 00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:14.980 then everyone else who's watching, they're going 00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:16.900 to make it. They're going to make it. And the 00:24:16.900 --> 00:24:18.799 audience doesn't really know that we've never 00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:21.660 made it yet. And then we get to the last row 00:24:21.660 --> 00:24:24.920 and I remember the club coming towards me. I 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:27.599 catch it. And then I'm looking at all three of 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:29.500 the others going, did they catch it? And they 00:24:29.500 --> 00:24:31.180 all caught it. And we jumped up in the air and 00:24:31.180 --> 00:24:33.900 we threw our hands in the air. Like the feeling 00:24:33.900 --> 00:24:36.900 was elation. So we actually reached perfection. 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:41.759 Yeah. But that was, it was the destination, but 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:45.299 we were always happy with putting on a good show 00:24:45.299 --> 00:24:47.099 and having a round of applause at the end. But 00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:49.559 yeah, anyway, so perfection, unfortunately, is 00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:52.069 a bit of an attraction. Especially in juggling. 00:24:52.150 --> 00:24:54.250 You never want to drop anything. It's like a 00:24:54.250 --> 00:24:56.789 volley when you're doing table tennis or tennis. 00:24:57.529 --> 00:25:01.690 If you're volleying, it's a long rally. Because 00:25:01.690 --> 00:25:04.609 volley, you're hitting it on the floor. So rallying. 00:25:04.609 --> 00:25:07.430 And it feels good, doesn't it? 20, 30 hits and 00:25:07.430 --> 00:25:11.029 you're like, whoa, I'm a professional. I'll say, 00:25:11.130 --> 00:25:15.450 okay, you're not competing. Because if you're 00:25:15.450 --> 00:25:17.329 competing, you don't like a long rally. You want 00:25:17.329 --> 00:25:21.079 to just win that ace. So perfectionism has been 00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:23.240 holding us back, unfortunately, which meant that 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:26.480 we still don't have a video podcast where we 00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:30.160 can cut it up and throw it up onto all the socials 00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.460 and become famous to get more viewers so we can 00:25:33.460 --> 00:25:36.299 share. Because we have a mission. Well, I have 00:25:36.299 --> 00:25:38.319 a mission, and I think you've shared yours, is 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:39.720 that I think the world will be a better place 00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:42.119 when we all become our best selves. Yes. And 00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:44.680 so I want to share the wisdom that is on the 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:46.539 planet with as many people as possible. It's 00:25:46.539 --> 00:25:49.160 not my wisdom. I'm just the conduit, and I'd 00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:51.519 like to share it far and wide. So we've got to 00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:53.799 forget about being perfect. We've got to get 00:25:53.799 --> 00:25:55.779 it out there. So even if people are listening 00:25:55.779 --> 00:25:58.440 to us like audio just now, but in the future 00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:00.200 we will have a video once we've figured out that 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:04.920 app. Yep. Well, let's make sure that this doesn't 00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:08.220 hold us back again. Yeah, that's right. So apologies 00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:10.720 to everyone out there. If you've been waiting 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:13.220 for the latest Captain the Clown podcast. It's 00:26:13.220 --> 00:26:15.900 here now. Yes, we have one. And we will continue 00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:17.779 to move forward with audio. We'll keep doing 00:26:17.779 --> 00:26:20.200 audio and we'll practice. Work in the background. 00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:24.740 Get the video done. If we had a producer and 00:26:24.740 --> 00:26:27.119 a studio, we could do it. Someone who knew what 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:30.119 they were doing. Exactly. But our life is quite 00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:32.640 full. Yes, which means we should probably hand 00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:36.539 it over to someone. No, we're holding on. Because 00:26:36.539 --> 00:26:38.960 we're learning at the same time as well. Yeah. 00:26:39.380 --> 00:26:42.000 More dogs. More dogs. More dogs. We had another 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.559 chat the other day with somebody about how when 00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:46.640 you're walking a dog, people talk to you. Yes. 00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:48.779 Yes, and we talk to people when they've got dogs. 00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:51.119 Exactly. And how good is it that we walk around 00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:55.740 our suburb and the dogs are looking at you and 00:26:55.740 --> 00:26:57.079 we're looking at them and they're going, oh, 00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:59.119 pat me, pat me. And then the owner's going, yes, 00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:00.460 he wants a pat or she wants a pat. Once I pat 00:27:00.460 --> 00:27:01.900 him, we go down and give him a pat. And then 00:27:01.900 --> 00:27:04.819 the owner walks away going, thank you. Thank 00:27:04.819 --> 00:27:08.940 you for patting my dog. That's funny. All right. 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:12.759 And so our sponsors still haven't reached out 00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:16.700 to us? No. Well, we've been kind of mute. We 00:27:16.700 --> 00:27:18.759 have, yeah. So why would Bollinger reach out? 00:27:18.859 --> 00:27:21.140 Why would Bose or who was the other sponsor we 00:27:21.140 --> 00:27:23.000 were asking for? Lint. Lint, yes. They still 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:24.480 haven't reached. We've still got the car wash 00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:27.759 kid. But anyway. Good to finally be back on the 00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:32.400 microphone, Michelle. Yes. Cheers. Bye. Well, 00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:36.420 that was fun. That was fun. You're such a clown. 00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:41.000 The clown. Lady Captain. And who's going to listen 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:43.339 to this? Maybe our mums. Thanks, Mum.