G'day leaders. Do you fear judgment? In this podcast, we talk about judgment and how it
impacts human beings. We talk about a new way of looking at it that people aren't judging
you. They're judging themselves through you. An interesting concept to get your head around.
We also talk about fashion and how we're not actually buying fashion. We're buying confidence
and many more aspects of removing the fear of judgment. Enjoy. Why did it count backwards?
I know that we're now recording. What? Hello captain. What do I say?
Come fly with me. Let's fly, let's fly. What are we going to talk about? I don't know.
So leadership, life and everything else. Yeah.
And we're live.
You're just trying to slip that in there. You know we're recording. Yeah, you didn't notice it,
did you? How are we live? We're recording. How are you? Good, how you doing? Good. I like your
fashion today. Ah, but I don't dress for fashion. I dress for confidence. It's who I want to be,
who I want to turn up as is how I dress. So my theory and I have read this so it's not completely
my idea is that when a person says they have nothing to wear even though their wardrobe is
full, they actually have nothing that represents how they want to show up in the world that day.
Yep, yep. I had an interesting journey in my own brain the other day about fashion and judgment
and confidence because we teach confidence in our workshops. I'm always thinking about different
ways of making it real for people and I've spoken to the kids about this over the last week. I don't
think people buy fashion, they buy confidence. So I was telling the kids the other day,
so let's just say everyone is wearing skinny jeans. Yep. Yes. So the whole world is wearing
skinny jeans, that's the fashion. And if you walked up to a punter on the street and said,
oh, I like those skinny jeans here, I've got this nice new pair of flares, would you wear them?
Most people go, oh, no, they're ugly, right? Because they're not the current fashion. But
then the very next week at the Paris fashion show or wherever. Or on TikTok or Instagram.
Or on TikTok or Instagram or something. Or an influencer, they throw on a pair of flares.
Yep. So big bell bottom pants, right? And then they walk down the catwalk with their strut,
you know, struttons from side to side. Swishing the base of their pants. Basically channeling
every bit of confidence that they can have because they, quite frankly, feel confident up there.
Otherwise, they wouldn't look like that. And then the next week, everyone's wearing flares.
Yes. But they're not wearing flares. They bought that model's confidence. Yes. Yep. Yes. That's
the original. That's the original. And then everyone else starts to notice, oh, flares are in now.
It's like the Empress new clothes. Yeah, flares are in now. So they get rid of their skinny leg
jeans and they start throwing on their flares. And then we wear flares for the next couple of
decades. And then all of a sudden somebody throws some skinny jeans on the model. They walked in,
they walked in. Oh, look at that confidence. I can't believe she's wearing skinny leg jeans.
No, fashion turns over faster than that. Yeah, I know. It's much faster now. I'm old, right?
This fast fashion stuff, this Zara stuff. I'm not aware of this. I'm still wearing clothes I had in
the 80s, Michelle. So am I. Classics. You call them classics. But it goes back to the principle
that people don't, well, this is my new principle, people don't buy fashion, they buy confidence.
Yes. And it's all to do with this fear of judgment that human beings have.
Okay. Speaking of that, let's talk Frank Green. Okay. Or the Stanley Cup.
What an experience that was. Yeah. So as speakers, we often get gifted stuff at the conferences. And
one of the things I've always been gifted over the years, I don't know about you, Michelle, was
drink bottles. I love drink bottles. I love a good drink bottle. And I've been gifted some
beautiful drink bottles, some thermos style where they keep things cold or hot. And I have a bucket
load of them, a cupboard full of them. We've got drawers full of branded drink bottles.
Yes. And then last year, what happened? Well, last year, my daughter wasn't satisfied with
any other drink bottle other than a Frank Green. And it had to be a Frank Green.
It did. And she saved. She did all sorts of chores and tasks and asked for extra so that she could
afford this. But at first, you said no. I did. Yeah. We've got bottles in the drawer. Yeah.
But it had to be a Frank Green. That's right. And the water didn't taste as good.
Wouldn't be as hydrated because they weren't as large as the Frank Green that she had her eye on.
Now, I refused to buy another drink bottle when we had perfectly serviceable drink bottles. I get it.
And it was just me saying no. And anyway, I want to see how far this went. So she did. She worked
her butt off to save the money to go and buy a Frank Green. And I think it was $80 something
by the time she got it engraved and all the rest. She wasn't buying a Frank Green, though, was she?
No, she wasn't. She was buying confidence. Yeah. She was buying. And community inclusion. Inclusion.
She was trying to be like everyone else. Well, her school teachers had them. Her peers had them.
Yep. Everybody had them. She was the only person in the entire world who did not have a Frank
Green drink bottle. According to her. But then now you look around the world and it's new Stanley.
Stanley. Stanley. Stanley. They had Stanley thermoses when I was young. It's 110 years old,
this cup. Is it? Yes. So it's not a new design. They come in new colors. But what happened is they-
But it's 110 years old. They jumped on the bandwagon of Frank Green, didn't they? Well,
it's amazing marketing. The marketing team, they've completely reinvented and rebranded
without changing the design. Just the color. But it is a vessel that holds water. Or yes, yes,
or liquid. Yes. But it had to be a Frank Green. Now it's got to be a Stanley. It's because everybody
wants to be like everyone else. I love the parodies. Because what do we fear? Yes. Not fitting in.
Not fitting in. That's right. That's what it is. We're buying fashion for confidence so that we
don't feel judged. So that we like everyone else. We buy Frank Greens and Stanleys so that we fit
in so we like everyone else. And this is a bit of a bugbear of mine that we don't grow out of it
quickly enough. No. Well- It starts in school. Yes. You remember primary school or even preschool,
right? Kids would turn up in anything. You'd see a kid walking in with one gum boot and one high heel.
And they've grabbed their mum's lipstick and drawn a picture on their face and they walk in,
check me out. And then they go to primary school and high school and they just want to be like
everyone else. Even the emos who wanted to be nonconformists all looked like each other.
Well, that was me at art school. Was it? We all dressed because we didn't want to conform to
society. So we all dressed in black, but we were actually conforming to our nonconformists. That's
right. It was silly. Yeah. I mean, it's a natural human thing that we want to feel like we belong
because if you aren't belonging, there's safety in numbers. We like to feel safe in groups.
We always lived in groups. We hung around in groups. We evolved in groups because there
was safety in numbers. We're not big, fast and tough like those dangerous animals out there.
And the only way we survived as a species was to have this instinct of working together and
living together and belonging. And that's why human beings don't like to be judged. Because
if you're judged, you feel like you're separate to the group, which means that it triggers the
final flight response because you're not safe anymore. That's where it all comes from.
So in order to release yourself from being captive by this fashion and influences and having to buy,
usually buy the latest things. Which is useless because you've already got something that functions
at home. That's right. We do sound old now saying that. But when I was a kid, in order to get to
overcome that, you really need to then stop fearing judgment. Yeah. Which is we've had a
whole podcast on this confidence. Self-confidence is when you stop fearing the judgment of others.
It's got nothing to do with what you're good at, your skills, your knowledge, your experience.
It's basically when you stop fearing the judgment of others. It's the foundation of confidence.
Mm. But regrettably, in high school, we want to be like everyone else because we fear judgment,
which is a lack of confidence. And so we can't just go our own way. It's very rare to see somebody
who'll just go their own way and just, what is it, buck the trend. Yeah. You helped me the other
week. I wanted to be included in a group, a professional group. And I put an application in.
And I was excited about the possibility and hadn't heard the outcome. And you said to me,
well, be excited that you applied and you got given the opportunity. But if it doesn't happen,
they're not your group. So don't worry. It's not the end of everything. It's just that's not your
audience. That's not where you're meant to be at this time. And it's true. And often I think back
about times where things haven't worked out exactly as I've planned or wanted them to. I've not got a
job that I applied for or I put a tender out for speaking and didn't get it. But it has always – and
it's just that I think there's a time-fellows episode where it's equal. It's the opposite actually
with – Opposite day with George. Yeah, opposite with George. And Elaine, they kind of switch out.
But George was equal. If something bad happened to him, their replacement happened pretty well
straight away or something better. And that's how I consider things that happen. And I tell my kids
this. If something doesn't happen the way that you want it, it's because something better will
come along. And it always does. I cannot think of an example where it has not.
Well, when it hasn't. When it hasn't been better than what I originally wanted.
Yeah. Well, when you think about it, when things aren't going your way, at the other end of that
is something going your way. Because it's not going to last forever.
No, not at all. Unless you're one of those people,
the doomsdayers who can't see the positive in anything.
Well, we try and instill in the kids that stop fearing this fear of judgment. And what if
you did something completely different? You might actually be the trendsetters. You might be the
ones who start the new fashion or the new trend. The Audi ice cream day.
Yeah. Okay, let's talk about that. All right. So I'm trying to get all of the kids to not worry
so much, not fear the judgment of other people. So everyone in the family owns an Audi. Now,
an Audi is not a fashion statement. An Audi is a blanket with sleeves. It's fur lined.
It's got a hood and it's for comfort. It's not a fashion statement.
Very, very popular during COVID. Work from home outfit. And you could, because the neck's so large,
you could just kind of slip it down during a Zoom call. So it was around your waist. And then as
soon as the Zoom call was over, you slip it back on and cut down on your heating bills.
Now, I've heard people, I've seen and spoken to people who, when you mention Audi, screw up
their noses. How could you possibly wear one of those?
It's in the same realm as Crocs.
Crocs. No, the Crocs are back in. You might tease people with Crocs, but they're fashionable again.
Everything comes around in circles. Flair jeans are coming back. Anyway, so we said to the kids
just recently, we can go up to the ice cream parlor, but you can only have an ice cream if
you wear an Audi. And the look on their faces, go out in public in these things. Even though
we've gone for walks late at night after dinner with these Audi-ons down the park, but there's
hardly anyone down there, but now they're up on the main street of the ice cream parlor. So I'm
trying to create this new fashion, this new trend that people in our suburb go and get ice cream
during winter, go and get ice cream at night after dinner, go for a walk, go and get a nice
scoop of ice cream from the ice cream store up on the main street wearing an Audi. Basically saying,
I don't care what I look like. I feel I'm warm. I did not fear the judgment of others.
And I won't mention his name or who he is, but I spoke to a friend who, when I mentioned it,
we go for a walk in the Audi. He said, what? You go for a walk in your Audi? I go, yeah. Oh,
why would you do that? I said, because you wouldn't. And he went, what? I said, because
you don't have the confidence to do it. Oh, I'm not stupid enough to look like that. That's again,
because you don't have the confidence to do it. Oh, I'm plenty confident. You're insecure because
you worry about what people think about you. You wouldn't wear it because you'd fear their judgment.
And he goes, oh, he couldn't understand what I was saying. But I'm basically saying, the reason why
you wouldn't do it is because you fear judgment. Look at you and your nice shoes and your nice car
and your nice house and all that sort of stuff. You're basically saying, I need people to think
well of me so I wouldn't wear those Audi things. But that's exactly what I'm trying to teach the
kids. We shouldn't fear what other people think. Well, that also leads us on to that you're actually
not judging others. You're judging yourself through others. We speak about a fair bit.
Oh, it's now in a few of our courses, isn't it? Yeah. So try this on for size. This is hard for
people to get their head around. I've had so many people kind of push back a little bit on this,
that we are not judging anyone. We are judging ourselves through them. So nobody judges you.
They judge themselves through you. So I say to people, have you ever said out loud or thought,
I would never wear that when somebody walks past. For example, I would never wear that. So even just
the statement, I would never wear that. So the fact that someone else is wearing it, you're not
actually judging them. It's the fact that you yourself would never wear that. Yeah. So judging
yourself through them. And I don't know if we've done this example in the podcast, but I'll repeat
it. There's nothing wrong with repeating things. I was running a leadership course. And when I got
into the room, there was a screen at the front and a table about a meter and a half in front of that
in the middle of the room. And then the chairs were set up in a semi-circle. And I'm looking at it
again. Oh, I don't like where that table is. It's kind of blocking the front. So I went to move it,
but it was bolted to the ground. Who bolts a desk? Anyway, so there was only a little bit of space
in the front of the desk where the screen was between the screen and the desk. And then there
was a big space in front of the desk where the chairs were. So I thought, oh, I'm not going to
stand up the back there. There's not enough space. So I walked around in front of the desk. And so
the desk is behind me. And then the students are sitting in kind of like a semi-circle around me.
There was no, they didn't have desks. And the lady who set up the room, she looked at me and she said,
why aren't you standing up the front? Why aren't you standing up there? And it was the perfect
timing because we're teaching confidence in this leadership course. And I said to her,
if you were doing the training, where would you stand? She said up there. And I said,
you're judging me, aren't you? And she went, no, no. And I said, that's okay. I said,
where would you stand if you're doing the training? She said up there on the other side of the desk.
Behind the desk.
Yeah. I said, and because I'm not standing up there, you're feeling a bit uncomfortable,
aren't you? She went, oh, I don't know if I'd use those words. Well, that's what you would do.
And I'm not doing what you would do. So it's making you question things. And she went, yeah.
I said, it's okay. You're not judging me. You're judging yourself through me. And she went,
no, I'm judging you. And I went, no, you're not. You're judging yourself through me.
And she said, I don't get it. And I said, well, you need me to be standing up the front,
which is what you would do. You need me to be up there so that you feel comfortable about what
you would do. The fact that I'm not doing what you would do makes you feel a bit uncomfortable.
So you're not judging me. You're judging yourself through me. And she said, I don't get it. I said,
you will later. And then at the end of the workshop, she came up to me and she said,
I get it. I get it. I said, what's changed? She said, yeah. It's like when you say to somebody,
oh, I wouldn't wear that. Yeah. You're saying I wouldn't wear that. If that was me wearing that,
I would be judging myself. So she was saying, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that. Yeah.
And so that's really what it is. No one's judging you. They're judging themselves through you. And
if you can put that into your head and let that resonate for a while, does it freeze you up? Yeah.
So when somebody is looking at you and you're wearing an hoodie and an ice cream parlour,
and they're screwing up their nose, they're screwing up their nose at themselves. What they're
basically showing you is I am insecure. And you, what you're wearing and being confident in it,
is making me feel insecure. So just leave it with them. Don't worry. Don't bring on their insecurity
onto you. Yeah. When we were talking about doing this podcast, it got me thinking about
the goals that people set. And I have been guilty of this, where it's not based necessarily on
what I want out of life and like deep down rooted what I want in life. It's what the judgment. So
for example, a car of a certain brand or a certain position, you know, to be, and in flying, it was
a chief pilot, which I became, and then I wanted to become captain. And then you, you know, try
for training captain, et cetera, after that. So it's always reaching for the next thing, which is
great that you're striving. However, it wasn't based necessarily on, and I'm admitting this
truthfully that it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't necessarily based on what I truly wanted. It was
what I thought was expected. And also the, not only expected, but to get the coupons,
kudos from my peers, my friends, my ego could be stroked, you know, certain, and you see it,
people buy certain labels in clothing and accessories and guilty as charged, but it's that
thing of, do you do it because you truly like and appreciate that particular item? Or could you get
the same thing cheaper that is as functional, but the, if you, it had no label or a cheap label on
it would, you know, in amongst your peers, you'd fear the judgment of them or they can't afford it
or they're not successful because they only have Kmart or whatever. Yeah. You know, and I feel,
I think it's a wisdom age thing that is, yeah, it's now like, you know, I don't care. It's
– if it's functional. That's right. And I think finally I've got the confidence, finally, where,
yeah, I'm not fearing the judgment of others. I'm willing to put myself out there to say things,
feel things, do things, wear things that aren't the norm necessarily following the fashion or,
and you know, maybe even not doing something even though it's expected.
Doesn't it feel good? Because it doesn't resonate. Oh, it does. It's the judgment. It's the freedom.
The freedom, yeah. And growing up a shy, insecure person, most of my life, my biggest fear was what
other people thought. It is such a freeing concept to no longer fear the judgment of others.
And it reminds me of another thing that we teach that what is criticism?
Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's a label, isn't it?
It's a label. Yeah. So for example, if you said to me, guy, I don't like that t-shirt,
that isn't criticism. That's just information coming from you to me. It only becomes criticism
when I get out my little sticker book and I find the one that says criticism and I put that sticker
on what you've just said. Oh, Michelle just criticized me. So it's up until that point,
it was just information. It was just information about feedback or just know it's just information
about what you think about this t-shirt. So you're saying I don't like that t-shirt. That's just,
Michelle doesn't like this t-shirt, but it only turns into criticism when I put a label,
a sticker on it that says, I was criticized. Shakespeare, there is nothing good or bad,
but thinking makes it so. I was in Hamlet. I found out the other day. I've always been quoting
that. I didn't know which of his plays it was in, but yeah, it's just a label. We stick on things.
We have so much more control over this fear of judgment than I realized growing up. It doesn't
need to be. I know. If I could rewind, not that I want to at all, but the knowledge and the wisdom
of getting to the stage, and again, I'm old. We're old. Yeah, we're old. We're older now.
Getting to the stage where really you shed all of that expectation, the needing to conform,
the needing for approval. I love those names. I've got zero fucks to give. Are we allowed to say
that word? I don't know. We did. We're going to have to put a language warning on this one now.
I think that's the first time we've used the FH. No, I have heard. Yeah, our first episode.
Was it? Someone was shocked that I saw. Really? Were they judging you, Michelle? Maybe. Was that
criticism? It wasn't criticism. No, just information. It was information until we
labeled it as criticism. Yeah, this is something I've been working on personally for a long time.
Just remove the fear of judgment because that's what true confidence is. Confidence is when you
stop fearing the judgment of others and being shy, sensitive, as I keep repeating, I was. It was a
journey. It was challenging. It was really challenging to overcome my insecurities and
my shyness and all the things that kind of held me back early on in life. I was getting good at stuff
when I was young, but I did not have any confidence because I feared the judgment of others
constantly. Detaching feedback from ego is huge, but look, I'm a work in progress. I still,
someone says something and if I start to feel like they're attacking me personally or my ego,
I sit with it for a bit and my way is I write as bullet points or a list and reframe it as feedback.
So I need to externally write that down, but once you've done it, then you can have your 10-minute
hissy fit or emotional whatever, and then actually look at it and go, oh, hang on,
it's not about me. Or it's something I did. Yes, I take ownership of that, but it can either be
repaired, improved, or it's a lesson or whatever. It's feedback. It's a journey. I'll never get there.
I'll never get to the point where I no longer ever fear the judgment of others.
It's really important to clarify that we're not saying that you stop caring. Oh, no, that's right.
It's about stop caring. You don't stop caring about others. You stop. Care deeply. Do not fear judgment.
Because if you care deeply, then you're open to listening to other people's ideas. You're open
to seeing it from their perspective. You're not going to be labeling things as criticism. You're
going, oh, I care about your opinion. Tell me more about your opinion, even though if traditionally
you would have called it criticism. Because if you don't care, you're disregarding. If you're
disregarding, you're lacking compassion, and you're probably arrogant as well. And so it's important
for people to realize we're not saying stop caring about what other people think. We're saying don't
fear what other people think because there is a very, very big difference between somebody who
doesn't care and somebody who doesn't fear. Somebody who doesn't care disregards others,
and they look down on others. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about being
more like Muhammad Ali. He was supremely arrogant about his ability to box, but he wasn't a better
person because of it. He was a humble and compassionate human being. That's the sort of
empathetic. That's the sort of character that we want to move towards where you don't fear the
judgment of others, but you care deeply about everyone. I like in some of the workshops you
run, and you invite people to listen to our podcast, and you say, take a listen, and if we're
shit, don't listen. That seems to work. We look on the website and people are click, click, click,
click all afternoon. Yes, all over the world. Yes. It is. We're getting so much feedback around the
world. So to everyone who's listening overseas and people that we've never met in person,
thank you so much for joining our crew of listeners and the feedback that we're getting. Thank you so
much. It makes this even more fun for Michelle and I because the reason why we do this is that
we think the world will be a better place when we all become our best selves. Absolutely. And we're
hoping to pass on wisdom that we've acquired from other people. And we want to keep acquiring from
other people. So if you have amazing ideas or some little rule that you do have in your life, please
let us know. None of this wisdom is ours. If we can quote Einstein and Newton that I love, I don't
know which one said this, but they both said something along the same lines. If I have seen
further, it's because I stood on the shoulders of the giants who came before us. This is not our
knowledge. This is just wisdom we've collected in my passing it on. That's right. Repackaging it.
Yes. I like that one. That was fun. Yes, it was. Thanks, Guy. Bye. Bye. Well, that was fun. That
was fun. You're such a clown. The clown. Lady captain. And who's going to listen to this? Maybe our mums. Thanks, mum.