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G'day leaders, on today's episode of Captain and the Clown we get to speak with a truly

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amazing man.

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And legend.

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Olympian Daniel Kowalski.

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Yes, I've loved this podcast.

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I've been a friend and a fan of Daniel since his swimming career in the mid to late 90s.

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What an amazing athlete and what an amazing human being.

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I remember staying up watching telly, just the Olympics it was so exciting and watching

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the swimming, especially the men's swimming, they were inspirational and Daniel knowing

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I suppose from the, what we saw on the television and meeting the man in person and just what

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he had to say is just, I've got goosebumps, truly inspirational.

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Enjoy.

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Why did it count backwards?

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Are they, we're now recording.

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What?

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Hello Captain.

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Oh what do I?

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Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away.

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What are we going to talk about?

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I don't know.

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So leadership.

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Life and everything else.

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Yeah.

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And we're live.

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No we're recording.

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I do that every time Daniel, I'm so sorry.

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It doesn't get old.

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No it does.

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It does.

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But we've had feedback from a few of our listeners that do it every time because it annoys 

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Michelle.

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Yeah.

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Yeah so we're live but we're not recording every time.

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We're excited.

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So we've got a very special guest today.

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I've known Daniel for some time.

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But yeah, Michelle, Daniel Kowalski.

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I know.

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I've only ever knew you from the telly.

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When it was black and white.

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No, not that long ago.

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That makes me old as well too Daniel.

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I'm actually older than you I think.

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30 plus years I guess we've known each other.

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We have, yeah.

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It's been quite a while.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And one of the best swimmers Australia's ever produced.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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That's very kind of you.

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Well Michelle said, fill me in about how you know Daniel.

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I said we both competed at the same time.

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And Daniel, so you had a, you won Olympic medals in 1500, 400 and 200 at the same Olympics.

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Correct.

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And you were the first person to do that since 1904.

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Yes.

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Yeah it was in 92 years.

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Yeah so that was in Atlanta wasn't it?

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That's right, 96.

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Yeah.

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And then I think gold medal in 2000.

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I swam in the heat of the relay of the 4x200 freestyle relay.

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So it's always an interesting one because obviously I was a part of a team that won

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a gold medal but do I necessarily think I'm a gold medalist?

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It's always a contentious topic within my brain.

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Oh okay.

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Okay.

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Well I always see you as a gold medalist from 2000 because it does take a team to win a

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medal in a relay.

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Yeah well as you would know coming from a team sport it really does take all those pieces

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but it was always a little bit not hollow but because those games were in Sydney and

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the crowd was electric and so not being able to stand on the podium and hear the national

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anthem it just didn't have the same sort of impact I think what winning a gold medal would

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if you had experienced those two things.

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At the World Champs, 4x200 Olympic, not Olympic, so World Champs world record in 90...

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97 was it?

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No, no, no, go back again.

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No it wasn't 96.

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98.

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Was it 94 or 98?

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98 and it wasn't a world record.

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If I had not done a 0.61 change over we probably would have broken a world record.

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0.61?

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Wasn't that the swim that put you guys into the top ranking, the world number one ranking?

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We broke the world record of Commonwealth Games.

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Commonwealth Games that's the one I'm thinking about.

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No because I remember that because that put Australian swimming into the number one ranking

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first time since 56.

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Yes, yeah, yeah so a long time coming.

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You can tell I was a big fan back then even though we were both competing at the same

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time.

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Well we swim but we don't swim as fast as you guys and yeah no that was, I saw that

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as a golden era especially on the male side of swimming.

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You guys with the 4x2 and all of the 1500s that you were in and anyway big fan.

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Everyone was talking about the swimming, Australian swimming and you just expected, no pressure,

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but expected medals.

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Like it was, and there was such hype and coverage and everywhere Australian flags and the boxing

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kangaroo and it was, yeah it was inspiring.

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People were happy.

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Yeah, I think one of the many benefits of being a part of that generation when there

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was only four channels to pick from and not as many choices for sports to play and to

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watch so and just the talent on that team was second to none but Guy your point's interesting.

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It's very rare when the men and women are both firing.

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At the same time.

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And I think that's fair across a number of sports.

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Absolutely, in water polo as well.

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The girls went up and won the gold medal in 2000 and then the men did well and then the

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girls do well.

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It never seems to happen at the same time.

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It's an interesting study for someone to take up.

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But your era put swimming on the map in my opinion.

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You became household names.

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I've mentioned to many friends before today that we were interviewing Daniel Kowalski

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and they go, you're kidding.

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That's so bizarre to me.

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I think of swimming as your era and Dawn Fraser.

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They're the two that I think are straight and for me, you know, the time blurs and I

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just think yeah, it went from Dawn Fraser straight to you guys.

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Not that time in between.

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And I guess that's amazing to hear but the sad thing is that the swimming team in particular

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in Tokyo was incredible.

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The world championships last year incredible and I think it gets back to that point.

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We have so much available to us.

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It's 24-7 and there's so many different platforms that it's hard to get through that cluttered

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market.

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Yeah, but you guys gave them a good stepping stone to swimming being a career that's going

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to then launch you into other areas, other careers.

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There's been quite a few swimmers from that area who have gone on to different things

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because of their fame I guess.

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Yeah, fame and work ethic and all those attributes I think being an elite athlete provides you

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and instills in you.

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So yeah, you know, look at Kieran Perkins who's basically the head of sport in this

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country as the CEO of the sports commission.

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So yeah, it's great to see a number of teammates who have gone on to do great things both out

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of the pool and in their personal careers.

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And yourself as well.

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You're titled with the Australian...

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So what's your official title?

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Australian Olympians Association?

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No, I'm head of Olympian Services at the Australian Olympic Committee.

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So the role is multifaceted, don't let the title fool you, but it's primarily about the

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alumni engagement.

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There's Guy and I are one of 4,315 Olympians to have ever competed for Australia.

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What's the number again?

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315.

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Cool, I feel quite rare now.

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Yes, you are.

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You are.

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So there's a, you know, we're trying to grow this alumni and this connection piece.

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There's a wellbeing piece and come Paris, I'll be a part of the team that sort of oversees

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the athlete experience in the main village within Paris.

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So it's a multifaceted role working across both summer, winter and all the sports and

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being a sports junkie and I just feel very privileged to have the opportunity to work

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in that role.

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Well you earned it.

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Thank you.

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And your position, especially over there, I met Katrina Webb last year and from Paralympian,

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she is Paralympian, I can't speak, Paralympian and she was saying that after the Games, you

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know, your mental health really takes quite a beating and having the support systems weren't

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available back then.

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And did you find that as well when you were competing and then we find when we've been

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speaking or you're preparing for something and you give a talk, give a workshop, etc.

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that you've been working on for a long time, after that adrenaline you get kind of the

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blues almost.

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Did you find that experience with yourself?

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Really, yes I did.

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Like massively, I didn't really realise the enormity of it until I had sort of stood back

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and reflected on how hard I was on myself post at least the 96 Olympics because for

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me it was a gold medal or bust kind of situation and I didn't achieve that.

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So for me this fear of I'd failed and let so many people down, it was a good 18 months

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of just going to bed every night and crying situation.

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So I did experience that but I didn't realise the enormity of it until a few years afterwards.

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Because with your particular event, the 1500, you punish yourself more than anyone else

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in the pool.

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Yes we do, thank you.

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In my personal opinion.

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My daughter's doing squads and we were telling her about your swimming career and what you

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competed in and she's like, wow, when we do our hour swimming for squads, it's exhausting

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your line and you're fast for 1500.

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If you ask somebody who swims a 400 medley, which is arguably probably the toughest swimming

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pool event or 200 butterfly, everyone, their event is the hardest but us distance swimmers

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would like to think about.

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No 1500 metres has to be the pinnacle of the swim.

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From my opinion anyway.

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I was a water polo goalkeeper so I only had to swim about 2 metres.

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I have to ask, so with those sort of distances, the training would have been absolutely punishing.

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How did you motivate yourself when you were back then training?

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Training was my favourite part.

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If they handed out gold medals for training, I'd probably have a good trophy cabinet full

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of them.

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I loved the challenge that the coach would put up on the board and the specific goals

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that I had set for myself on that particular day to ensure that I could make the most out

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of that training session.

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So I loved training, it was easy.

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The only times that it was difficult was I had a number of shoulder problems so I quite

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often would have to kick, purely kick 60 kilometres a week.

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And so that was when it was the most difficult when I was injured but otherwise I absolutely

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loved training.

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It was nothing better to me.

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I've heard other swimmers have similar mindsets.

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So Hackett used to turn up and almost want to push himself harder than what was on the

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board from the coach.

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Yeah I had the great privilege of training with Grant for a number of years.

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Before when he was like 14, 13, 14 he would get put in my lane on the Gold Coast at Miami

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Swim Club and when he was in trouble and I would lap him.

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And fast forward about five years later when I went back to Miami and he was lapping me.

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But he was an incredible, incredible trainer.

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So poster sport, you said it took a what, so 96 but you kept on going after that.

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Poster sport, how did you land back on earth?

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Yeah so I feel very fortunate in that I had been, I was consciously aware that the next

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part of my career was going to be the same as my swimming career.

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I'm going to have to start at the bottom and work myself up to wherever it is I wanted

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to go.

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I didn't exactly know where I wanted to go but I knew that it wasn't all going to be

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handed to me on a platter.

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And I'd seen a few people kind of not nail what a great transition from elite sport could

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look like.

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So I literally in my last year of uni I was like I don't have any real life experience

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here so I emailed a few of the sporting organisations in Queensland.

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I was on the Gold Coast with my family and I ended up landing a job, an internship with

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the Brisbane Lions in their marketing department.

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And it gave me six weeks experience.

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I remember vividly on the first day I jammed the printer and I did not know how to fix

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it and I was beside myself.

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I don't think you're the only person who's ever jammed a printer.

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But I thought the whole organisation is going to stop because I didn't know how to work

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the printer or fix the paper jam.

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I fixed it and it was a huge like wake up call to think okay this is literally like

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starting again but it was fun.

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So did you do marketing at uni or what did you do?

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I did a health science degree at Bond University which was basically a sports management degree

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and then I did a counselling undergrad as well.

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So for me I always wanted to work in sport so it was great to have that opportunity even

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as a Hawthorn fan to go and...

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I'm so sorry man.

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No he's calling with.

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There's so many things I can say now.

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Say them, say them.

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This is an open podcast you can say whatever you want.

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Beautiful set of teeth.

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Yeah exactly I have them.

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No I'm missing one.

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That's how I got in the club.

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I got one missing also.

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I was going to say my first job at the Australian Sports Commission I was on the help desk and

248
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I used to unjam printers all day almost for a living whilst I was training them.

249
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Was that in that library part or was that in...

250
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,640
No so we were over in the sports science building.

251
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,840
We were upstairs in the sports science building and I was the help desk.

252
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,080
I wandered around with a phone helping people back before Windows.

253
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,080
Yeah.

254
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:19,080
Yeah I know.

255
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,080
Commodore 64, go and replace the cassettes.

256
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,080
I used to support Lotus 123 for DOS.

257
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:23,760
I don't know if you remember that Daniel.

258
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:24,760
It's a long time ago.

259
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:25,760
By name I do.

260
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,760
Yeah but yeah over in the library in the sports commission I used to go and help people with

261
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their printers and stuff.

262
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:30,760
Yeah I know.

263
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:31,760
Yeah there we go.

264
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,520
So we've both got a history of jamming printers or I unjam printers and you jam them.

265
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:36,520
Only once.

266
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,720
Yeah no you only need to do it once.

267
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,240
So what did you learn from swimming?

268
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,080
So you said that you thought you were starting from the ground up after swimming.

269
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I'd actually suggest that you probably came out from your sport with more skills that

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you weren't aware of that people often see Olympians and people who have achieved what

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you have achieved and when they move into the business arena that the dedication, the

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passion, the getting up again after failure, they're the life skills that are so important

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in business.

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That's me suggesting some but what other skills do you think you came out of swimming with

275
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now that you can look back on it?

276
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I think the ability to prioritise and understand what is important and need to do now and what

277
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can sort of sit back and wait.

278
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The controlling the controllables.

279
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:29,160
Yeah.

280
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,800
You're in that office environment and you know there's things that you obviously can

281
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have an impact on and there's others that you just you can't and you can't control anything

282
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and so save the frustration and control the controllables and then just basic time management

283
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,840
you know just understanding a deadline is a deadline for a reason.

284
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A meeting starts at 9 and that means be there at 8.55 kind of mentality.

285
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,560
So there are a lot like you said there's a lot of traits and characteristics that you

286
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bring being an elite at what it is that you do but I think it's that doubt, the lack of

287
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:11,200
confidence because I hadn't experienced you know going to a staff meeting and taking minutes

288
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,480
and things like that you know what you do when you're starting out and it's like oh

289
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:20,280
I can't do it so the negativity creeps in but you're right you don't fully appreciate

290
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:25,120
what you have learnt in our case swimming up and down a black line and how that is transferable

291
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,240
to what you do on a day to day basis.

292
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:35,880
So your, the swimming that you did was singular so it was just you, you were in a team though

293
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:42,000
and in the relay it was a team but you trained as if for your own PB basically.

294
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,000
Exactly.

295
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,720
In but because it was a team and there are politics always when other humans are together

296
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:54,960
etc has that helped you managing that team and being in a team then in your work life?

297
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:59,520
It's interesting we talked at the start about the dynamic and the success of the team, the

298
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:05,120
swimming team in the late 90s and 2000s in Australia and a lot of that was because the

299
00:17:05,120 --> 00:17:12,200
personalities on that team realised that until you got on the blocks you were genuine teammates

300
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,240
and you would support one another.

301
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:23,000
So I was a part of an environment that success, red success and so I was able to take that

302
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,440
to the other parts of my life and realise that if I was going to be successful then

303
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:32,840
I needed to work very closely and understand what my peers and fellow colleagues were doing

304
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,360
around me in order to improve myself on a day to day basis.

305
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:40,840
So swimming gave me that foundation despite being in individual sport that the success

306
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,960
isn't going to happen without a good support network and a good team around you and the

307
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:52,400
irony is I spent a large part of my career working basically by myself so I really savoured

308
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,120
the moments that I have worked in an environment where you are a part of a team.

309
00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:58,120
Yeah, I want to work with you.

310
00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:06,440
I used to admire the culture that the swimming team created because you'd often see them

311
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,680
on the side of the pool days after their own events have finished supporting each other

312
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:16,240
and almost your own portable cheer squad every Olympics and World Champs, it was quite impressive.

313
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:20,160
Yeah, well it was a rule.

314
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:21,160
You will have team culture.

315
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:26,840
Yeah, but people, you know, I remember when I first started on the national team in 93

316
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:34,240
as a rookie it wasn't like that and I think to that point the success, you know, the emergence

317
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:39,760
of Kieran and what he brought to the pool deck and then Susie O'Neill comes along and

318
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:46,720
then you've got a male and a female, Sam Riley, you've got some upstanding quality people

319
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:53,280
who led by performances and it rubbed off on everyone else and then you go to Sydney

320
00:18:53,280 --> 00:19:00,200
and you bring in your Thorpe's, Patria Thomas, Michael Klim, Grant Hackett, you bring in

321
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:06,200
this slew of athletes who have learnt from that, you know, your Kieran's and Susie's

322
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:13,680
and Patria's and so forth and you just buy into it quickly and you want to be a part

323
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,080
of it and it was fantastic so by the end you wanted to be in the stands and you wanted

324
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:19,080
to be cheering on your teammates.

325
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:20,080
It wasn't a rule anymore.

326
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:21,080
It was still a rule.

327
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:22,080
It was still a rule.

328
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:28,240
But like you say, you had created this amazing culture in the team and I always admired that

329
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:34,080
and I talk about that in our team building sessions about how, you know, if you have

330
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,040
that sort of passion in your team, that culture in your team, people feel what's called psychologically

331
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:43,080
safe and so in an environment, a work environment, they then give their best.

332
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,800
They always bring their best but if it's not a good team culture then you're not at your

333
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,240
best because you're worrying about what your colleague's doing or whatever rather than

334
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:51,240
supporting each other.

335
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:52,240
Exactly.

336
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,680
So we love talking about leadership so if you don't mind, I'd love to ask you some

337
00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:01,600
questions about leadership and one of the questions we always ask is what makes somebody

338
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,040
the sort of person other people would be inspired to follow?

339
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:10,440
In other words, what are the character traits important in a leader from your perspective?

340
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:16,800
Somebody humble down to earth and someone that I would want to be like and by that I

341
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,920
mean for me the epitome of a leader is someone who walks in regardless of what level they're

342
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:23,640
at and they will always say hello.

343
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:24,640
Yeah.

344
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:25,640
The humility.

345
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,280
The humility of it.

346
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:34,840
For me that what that does is shows that there's a genuine care and interest that may be the

347
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:41,080
only interaction you have all day but the fact that the CEO has taken the time to walk

348
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,680
by and say hello, I think that's very powerful.

349
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,240
Did you ever meet John Bulkby when he was there?

350
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:47,240
Of course.

351
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:48,240
Yes.

352
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:54,120
So when I was working at the Sports Commission on John Bulkby's first day as the new director

353
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:56,280
I was running around with a help desk phone.

354
00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,080
I was running out of the Sports Science building and John Bulkby, the new director, was being

355
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,080
shown around by somebody.

356
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:02,840
I can't remember who was showing him around.

357
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:08,360
I didn't know who this guy was but the guy walking him around said, Guy, Guy, this is

358
00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:09,360
John, the new director.

359
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:12,840
I said, Hi John, nice to meet you and he said, Guy, what do you do?

360
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,480
I said, I'm on the help desk and he said, Oh, lovely to meet you.

361
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,320
I said, I'm just running off John to help somebody so yeah, lovely to meet you and I

362
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:24,160
ran away to help whoever had a computer problem at the time, you know, restart DOS or something.

363
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,920
And then I think it was two days later I was walking past John and he said, Guy, how are

364
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:28,920
you going?

365
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:29,920
How's the help desk going?

366
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:35,280
And then the day he met everyone and he remembered everyone's name and where they worked.

367
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,760
Yeah, very personable and I talk about that story all the time how personable he was and

368
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,040
the humility he had as well.

369
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,200
And for me that is what makes a great leader.

370
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:50,080
Well, somebody who is being led by somebody like that feels seen as well.

371
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,040
So they feel valid, they feel like they're contributing.

372
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,440
So of course you want to help, you want to give more if you're recognised.

373
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,240
Yeah, I've never worked in an environment like a bank, for example, where there's thousands

374
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:02,400
upon thousands of people.

375
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,200
So I don't know how that would work.

376
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,000
But every majority of jobs that I've had, you know, the office size has never been any

377
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,240
more than 40 or 50.

378
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,440
And so to be, you know, that's still a big effort from, you know, the senior management

379
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:21,080
or the senior leaders within an organisation to have the ability to do that.

380
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,080
But anyone who can.

381
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:28,600
Yeah, I worked with ING back when they were called ING direct and their CEO was like that,

382
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,720
he Vaughan, I think his name was, I hope I got that right.

383
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,400
But anyway, he used to spend time getting to know people.

384
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:40,320
He even was busking out of the front of the building in disguise one day to just kind

385
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,800
of get a feel for what it was like if people didn't know who he was.

386
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:43,800
Yeah, right.

387
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:44,800
It's like that undercover CEO.

388
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:45,800
Undercover CEO.

389
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,960
Whereas I worked for a company where we all wore name badges and you would see people

390
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,400
go, G'day Michelle.

391
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,880
And sometimes you just walk up, hi, and cover your name badge.

392
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:00,880
Everyone was mate.

393
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:01,880
Yeah.

394
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,960
Who's some leaders that you've learned from?

395
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,440
Not even necessarily leaders, who are people that you've admired and learned from?

396
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:14,120
My favourite leader of all time, he was the head coach of the Duke University basketball

397
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:22,920
program and he coached the American basketball team to gold at 2008, 2012, 2016.

398
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,520
His name's Mike Szyczewski.

399
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:35,520
Incredible passionate, a very vocal, great speaker, inspiring speaker.

400
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:42,280
I had the fortune of meeting him a couple of times and he couldn't have been any nicer.

401
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,800
Why would he give up time to this crazy fan who was there?

402
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,880
Because he was a crazy fan and he took time out of his day.

403
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:56,360
And for me, he was my all time favourite leader.

404
00:23:56,360 --> 00:24:01,880
And yeah, the success of the program had a lot to do with it as well.

405
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:08,280
But when for me, what was very telling was NBA players are obviously some of the highest

406
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,440
paid athletes in the world.

407
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:15,760
They are on TV three or four times a week.

408
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,840
They are bigger than big in the US, which is from a sport point of view, quite often

409
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,840
the toughest market to crack.

410
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:29,240
And he could get everyone from LeBron James, Kobe Bryant to buy into that team ethos with

411
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:30,720
all those egos.

412
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,840
For me, that's incredible.

413
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,440
That says a lot about someone who is a great leader.

414
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:41,560
If I ever told you about when we arrived in Barcelona in 92 and we were standing, we were

415
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,160
getting our passes to go into the village, all these photographers came running into

416
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,400
the room and were all puffing up our chairs thinking that they were going to take photos

417
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:49,400
of us.

418
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:50,840
And then in walks the dream team.

419
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:57,600
So Jordan, Johnson, and it's like I'm the same distance I am to you from all these people

420
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,100
I grew up idolising.

421
00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:05,720
When you went to the Olympics, did you see any other athletes that you had admired?

422
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,640
Where do we see them?

423
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,880
I got a hug from Steffi Graf in the opening ceremony.

424
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,800
So it's funny, the tennis players were, I remember vividly on the morning of my first

425
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:23,520
event at the 1996 Olympics and Lindsay Davenport and Monica Sellers were literally on the next

426
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:24,520
table over.

427
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,280
It was between heats and final of the Tournament of Freestyle and I didn't think I'd make

428
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,120
the final and I made the final.

429
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:38,040
And I was sitting next to my coach and he was starting to talk about race plan and all

430
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:43,400
I could see was Lindsay Davenport and Monica Sellers eating McDonald's french fries.

431
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:49,000
And I was blown away, I was like this is what the Olympics are about, being a sport, absolute

432
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,000
tragic.

433
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,200
I saw Muhammad Ali in the dining hall.

434
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,360
Michael Johnson wasn't staying in the village but he came into the village, must have been

435
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:01,320
doing something in particular, the same with the dream team, they weren't there but it

436
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:06,640
was that for me is what the Olympics were, Anaconda Cobra, I shared a golf cart with

437
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:07,640
her.

438
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:13,560
At the time though I did not know it was Anaconda Cobra, I have to be honest.

439
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,720
So yeah, amazing, best part of the Olympics for me.

440
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,440
And I clearly remember on our first day, our team manager, he sat us all down, remember

441
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,880
we were in that dormitory in 96, it was nothing special.

442
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,680
I didn't get it, we failed, we failed the qualifier.

443
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,160
Failed is the wrong word.

444
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,680
No, it's a failure, it's a story I tell.

445
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,680
Yeah that is tough, sorry.

446
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:39,160
No, not at all, just to let you know the year before we'd won the top 8 nations tournament

447
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,280
so we went from one to failing within a year.

448
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:42,280
Yeah that's hard.

449
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:43,280
Yeah it was tough.

450
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:44,280
They learnt a great lesson though.

451
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,280
It was a good lesson, very good lesson.

452
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:47,280
But anyway.

453
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,520
Well there, we were in a dormitory on the campus of Georgia Tech and our team manager's

454
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,600
like you know, you're here at the Olympics, you're all Olympians, you're all the same,

455
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,280
you don't need to be getting autographs or taking photos and I'm like, nah.

456
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:00,280
Yeah stuff like that.

457
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,280
Yeah and what did I do, I had my little wind up camera and my autograph book, loved it.

458
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,800
Yeah, so Muhammad Ali, did you get to talk to him?

459
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,320
No because literally he walked into the dining hall and then all of a sudden it was like

460
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:15,800
the parting of the Red Sea, everyone stood up, rushed to like the aisle and just clapped

461
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,280
as he walked by.

462
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,280
Brilliant.

463
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,280
It was incredible.

464
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,560
Peter Montgomery said to me once that he's the most humble human being you'll ever meet.

465
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:24,560
Right, that's so nice to hear.

466
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,680
Yeah when you talk to him, like it doesn't matter who you are, you get his undivided

467
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:29,680
attention.

468
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:30,680
Yeah beautiful.

469
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,240
Yeah talking about humble before Muhammad Ali.

470
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:35,240
Love hearing that.

471
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,200
Monty's a great man too.

472
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,200
Absolutely, absolutely.

473
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,120
And what he's achieved in his life, it's incredible.

474
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:47,680
So the coach that you, the NBA coach that you admire, have you taken on any of his qualities

475
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,120
or his style in your own leadership journey?

476
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:54,960
I've got a similar Polish last name.

477
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,480
That's a bad idea.

478
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,560
No I don't think so.

479
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:05,240
Well obviously I'd like to think that I say hello to everyone if we're being like, if

480
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,840
we're putting it that way.

481
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:14,240
But otherwise I don't know actually.

482
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:20,360
So are there any qualities that you have that you have taken on, like knowingly taken on

483
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:27,720
from somebody who you've admired or you've been led by, you followed, you saw a little

484
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,480
snippet of something and went oh I like that and I'll do that.

485
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,300
Wow that's a really good question.

486
00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:40,200
As I was walking here I was like okay, you need to get in this mindset of leadership

487
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,320
and people who have inspired you and I'm thinking wow that's a very long list and now that I've

488
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,000
been put on a spot but this one's going to really, really throw you because you're not

489
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,520
going to think that I'm going to say it.

490
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:57,320
I'm obsessed with K-pop and the group BTS.

491
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:07,320
For me I survived the pandemic because of them and how, for a truly global phenomenon,

492
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:12,280
how much love that they provide their fans through just basic interactions whether it

493
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:17,880
be they get up on their platform and they do a live of them in the kitchen to their

494
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,680
messaging in their songs.

495
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,840
For me they're incredible leaders and what they've done to break down so many different

496
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:30,400
barriers whether it be people knowing about K-pop or the stuff that they do with UNICEF

497
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:36,760
or what they did for not just Black Lives Matter but also when there's a lot of Asian

498
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,360
hate crime in the US and bringing attention to that.

499
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,920
So for me I look at that and like I said you probably wouldn't realise but I think just

500
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:50,800
being nice to people and championing a cause is a beautiful thing.

501
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:56,320
Can I say Daniel, since the first time I met you I've observed that in yourself so yeah

502
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,720
you're always friendly to everyone and you give everyone your time.

503
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,720
My parents would be very proud.

504
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:02,720
Well they should be.

505
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,760
What are their first names?

506
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:05,760
Tony and Penny.

507
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:06,760
Tony and Penny you should be very proud.

508
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,080
Are they still on the Gold Coast?

509
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,760
Mum passed away not long once the pandemic started so that was a challenge through that

510
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:14,760
whole thing.

511
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:15,760
Very tough.

512
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,880
And yeah Dad's still kicking it strong on the Gold Coast so my sister and my niece are

513
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:20,880
up there.

514
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,880
They're coming down for Taylor's Suits in a couple of weeks.

515
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:23,880
Are you going?

516
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:24,880
Yes it'll be my ninth time.

517
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:25,880
How'd you get tickets?

518
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:26,880
Nine times yeah.

519
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:27,880
Nine times yeah.

520
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:28,880
What?

521
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:29,880
Really?

522
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:30,880
So you're a, what are they called?

523
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:31,880
Swifter?

524
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:32,880
Oh yeah I feel like I'm a Swifty.

525
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:33,880
Yeah a Swifty.

526
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,440
You got your outfit?

527
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,440
I have not.

528
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,080
All over TikTok I'm seeing, you know my daughter's TikTok.

529
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,080
Oh I love your algorithm.

530
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:47,120
I'm seeing everyone doing their unboxing and yeah whatever.

531
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,960
Yeah and I'm taking my, so my niece is coming down with my sister and they're going and

532
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:58,520
then but I'm also taking my husband's two nieces and his twin sister so we're going

533
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,280
and we're making the bracelets.

534
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:01,280
Oh brilliant.

535
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,880
So I saw there are all these rules that you're allowed to do.

536
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,000
You need to send me this then.

537
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,000
I will.

538
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,520
I'll send you the rules because there are rules about what you can take, what you can't

539
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,000
take, friendship bracelets.

540
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,120
There are rules around the friendship bracelets.

541
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:17,120
Wow.

542
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,600
Yeah I'll send you the rules.

543
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:19,600
Okay.

544
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:20,600
Isn't she a phenomenon?

545
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,040
Oh listen I'm obsessed with her.

546
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,720
I'm obsessed with her relationship.

547
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:33,680
I just, you know kudos to a powerful, strong, passionate woman doing what she loves and

548
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,560
the inspiration she provides not just women but men.

549
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,400
It's yeah power to her.

550
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:48,800
She's also providing a script or a narrative that yeah that girls and women can feel comfortable

551
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,480
again it's not the first time like it so it's not they're having to stand up as if it's

552
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,200
they're doing it for the first time.

553
00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:00,320
It's now a narrative that's out there about standing your ground and she's provided that.

554
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:05,320
Other women have as well before her but because she's got so much attention because of all

555
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:12,080
the avenues that she can you know can broadcast to social media and she's even on mainstream

556
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:19,200
news and every channel she's on just that having that audience and that audience hold

557
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:25,400
that she's got young girls can now you know easily say no that's you know I'm not putting

558
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,880
up with that and who do you think you are and questioning why did you do that and so

559
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:30,880
calling people out.

560
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:36,560
Yeah and I just feel the last 18 months has been the most incredible time if you are a

561
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,240
young young woman.

562
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,240
Yep.

563
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:40,240
The Matildas.

564
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:41,240
The Matildas.

565
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,240
I immediately thought of Matildas.

566
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:47,120
It was the absolute highlight of my sporting life for me that I've never ridden so many

567
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,520
emotions in a sporting event.

568
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:50,520
We were the same.

569
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,720
All the family we were there on the lounge.

570
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,560
I just feel the snowball from that across you know I was reading an incredible story

571
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:03,440
on ESPN this morning about this young basketballer Caitlin Clark is her name and she's about

572
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:09,060
to break the all-time scoring record for women's division one basketball but you know the stadium's

573
00:33:09,060 --> 00:33:13,640
on the road they're selling out for the first time ever and people are waiting 90 minutes

574
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,800
just to get a seat to go watch her and her team play.

575
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,280
The first ever professional women's ice hockey league has started.

576
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,480
You look at the emergence of the A league for women in particular in this country.

577
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:29,880
I mean it's just I don't have kids but if I had a kid I'd love it to be a girl I'd

578
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,600
love to be a girl dad and just I think it's a very special time.

579
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:35,600
Yeah.

580
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:36,600
That's right.

581
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:42,000
Well we'll introduce you to Maddie and you can adopt her because she's loving her swimming.

582
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:48,440
And she's and what I love about her is she's not competitive at all but she loves training

583
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,200
and she loves just swimming and she said I would swim every single day if I could we

584
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,640
haven't it's purely my laziness.

585
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:55,640
You're not lazy.

586
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:56,640
You're pacing.

587
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:57,640
You're pacing.

588
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:04,640
But it's she loves it for swimming not for competing and she says oh the coach Rouse

589
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:09,960
is on me all the time because I don't go fast and I won't compete so he puts me in the front

590
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,600
so I have to go fast so they don't catch me.

591
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:14,600
Smart.

592
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:19,600
But she loves it and so yeah again when we told her that we were talking to you today

593
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:26,080
she was like oh okay and you were talking about how you would get a gold medal for training.

594
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:31,400
I also subscribe to enjoying the journey not just the destination.

595
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:38,680
Did you ever come across anyone within the team or in your training up like your career

596
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:44,680
swimming career from when you started up to the ultimate peak anyone along the way that

597
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,360
was purely focused on the goal and not enjoying the journey?

598
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,520
I did enjoy the journey.

599
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,200
And if so did they make it to their goal or not?

600
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:57,560
Was their attitude wrong?

601
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,200
Yeah I can probably say this.

602
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:09,360
Petria Thomas hated training like every day and obviously her record goes without saying

603
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:16,760
one of the most incredible athletes Australia has ever produced but she hated it.

604
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,760
Absolutely hated it.

605
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:24,000
Gianne Rooney was another one who did not like the training either so much so I believe

606
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,840
she has still not hopped back into pool since she retired back in 2006.

607
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,160
So yeah those two definitely come to mind because they were the opposite to me they

608
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:38,720
absolutely loved racing they were just hungry for the racing whereas the training they could

609
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:41,640
have left that.

610
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,400
Which shows that there are different types of athletes.

611
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:45,400
100% yeah absolutely.

612
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,600
I probably would have preferred to be more like them.

613
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:48,600
Really?

614
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:49,600
Yeah.

615
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,720
You shouldn't after all those hours of endless training get scared when you get behind the

616
00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:56,480
blocks but that was what it ended up becoming like for me.

617
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:05,240
We tell our kids there's that anxiety or being scared is exactly the same chemical as being

618
00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:07,240
excited so it's reframing.

619
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:09,680
You just needed to tell yourself that you were excited.

620
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,800
All those nerves would have been turned into something else.

621
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,160
I was excited when I was nine years old but then when you actually had to do it and it

622
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,000
was happening I was like oh this is too much.

623
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,840
So how did you manage your stress?

624
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:19,840
I didn't.

625
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,040
You didn't okay.

626
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,400
I think I'm a good study in how not to do it.

627
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:28,520
If I could have parked my brain, taken it out and put it on the chair next to the block

628
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,440
that would have been a good thing.

629
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,280
What about now?

630
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,320
Do I get nervous excited like that?

631
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:36,320
Yeah now.

632
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,520
Have you been able to learn from that?

633
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,680
Because I feel like I'm more process driven as I was always putting the car before the

634
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:49,160
horse so I was worried about the outcome as opposed to that process that journey of getting

635
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:50,160
there.

636
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:55,520
Now I'm just savouring that moment that swimming using an analogy, swimming for the fun as

637
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,000
opposed to the end result.

638
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:05,040
If I can swing back to another famous female athlete, Dawn Fraser, fantastic Australian

639
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:06,040
swimmer.

640
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:11,520
Michelle being an airline captain flew her many times and she would always hang around

641
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:16,800
after the flight for photographs and autographs.

642
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:23,280
I love hearing that story because my Dawn Fraser pool in Elmaine was obviously named

643
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:31,760
after her and to hear that she's still to this day allows people to fan on her and come

644
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:37,720
up and take photos and autograph and she'll hang around for an hour after the flight apparently.

645
00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:40,280
We actually have to kick her off the flight.

646
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,000
New passengers need to come on, you're going to have to go.

647
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,800
A true national treasure right there.

648
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:53,160
Absolutely, cheeky but a national treasure like you say.

649
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,160
We're just looking at our notes here.

650
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,520
I love the fact that you're here Daniel.

651
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,160
I'm having a great time.

652
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,800
I've been looking forward to this podcast ever since you said yes.

653
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:03,800
Sorry Michelle.

654
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,560
Okay so I have a question.

655
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:12,680
Have you got any, what comes to mind the funniest thing ever in your first of all your swimming

656
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,400
career and then post swimming career?

657
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:22,480
Oh wow, the funniest thing ever.

658
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,240
That is a really tough question.

659
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:29,800
I don't think I've ever been asked the funniest thing ever.

660
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,560
Like if there's something and you'll be somewhere and there might be a little trigger and you

661
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,640
can't stop laughing like if it's internally because other people wouldn't understand or

662
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:45,040
you know there was a ritual for newbies or was there something when you won or was there

663
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,400
on tour, you know it happens on tour, stays on tour sort of thing but you can now tell

664
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,360
us.

665
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:53,820
Not really.

666
00:38:53,820 --> 00:38:58,900
We did used to have rookie and skit nights and so forth and there was one at the World

667
00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:04,200
Showcourse Championships in 1993 which was highly inappropriate now that we think back

668
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:05,680
at it.

669
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:06,680
Everything we did back then is now highly inappropriate.

670
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,320
It's crazy to think that if that happened today it would not.

671
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:11,320
No.

672
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:12,320
It would not.

673
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:13,320
OHS was different back then.

674
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,520
You'd be out the door and that's to that point earlier like being in a generation where there

675
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,320
was only four TV channels.

676
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,360
Also going through with no social media and no you know.

677
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,000
No recording of what you did.

678
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:25,000
How good was that?

679
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:26,000
I know.

680
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,000
So so good.

681
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,000
We were so much safer back then.

682
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:33,080
So much safer yet nowadays if I leave the house without my phone I literally have left

683
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:34,080
my life behind.

684
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,080
Yeah.

685
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:36,080
It's crazy.

686
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,960
It's a funny.

687
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:44,040
It's not really that funny now that I'm thinking about it but there was this video you see

688
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:49,120
it on YouTube and this guy was doing an interview for I think CNN and all of a sudden the door

689
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:54,040
opens and his daughter wheels in in this little roller thing and then next thing the little

690
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:58,720
baby comes the youngest one comes in and all of a sudden the mother high tails around the

691
00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:04,320
corner all on live TV and the reason that is funny is because my now husband and I that

692
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,360
for us that was the funniest thing that we've ever seen in in our life.

693
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,800
And so for me that was probably something that's really funny which you have to see.

694
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:13,800
I remember that one.

695
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:14,800
I do.

696
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:15,800
I remember that as well.

697
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,000
Was it during lockdown when everyone was on Zoom and.

698
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,280
I feel like it may be interview may have happened before that.

699
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:22,280
Okay.

700
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,800
But it really came to the fore during that.

701
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:25,800
Yeah.

702
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:32,320
And just today just today there's a gentleman visited the office and he had no shoes on.

703
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:33,880
He just had his socks on.

704
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:34,880
Okay.

705
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,480
And he tripped getting onto the ferry and they fell in the harbor.

706
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:40,480
Oh.

707
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:41,480
And.

708
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:42,480
That's a good story.

709
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:43,480
My colleague.

710
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,760
My colleague bless her had to leave a meeting because he was just standing there in his

711
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:48,760
socks.

712
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:49,760
Poor guy.

713
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:50,760
But she couldn't stop laughing.

714
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,680
And then the whole office literally were crying tears of laughter.

715
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,640
So I really hope he's not listening to this podcast.

716
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:58,640
Well look.

717
00:40:58,640 --> 00:40:59,640
It didn't happen.

718
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:00,640
It was just a story of my life.

719
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:01,640
Next next.

720
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:02,640
We can cut that one out.

721
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,560
And we can get the slippers and you can't keep them at work because you never know.

722
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:12,480
But the irony is we because we have outfitting for teams and stuff.

723
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,520
We felt for sure we're going to have a size 12 and a half assets.

724
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:17,960
We couldn't we couldn't find anything.

725
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:19,480
I could not find anything.

726
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,740
But it was it was very funny.

727
00:41:21,740 --> 00:41:23,040
You had to be there kind of moment.

728
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,840
But I know what's going to happen.

729
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,280
I'm going to get back to the office and I'm going to be like oh that was funny.

730
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,360
I said that.

731
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,960
I was running training courses during Covid.

732
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:38,840
We went obviously everything went on to Zoom and I had a particular workshop where I think

733
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:45,080
I had people from four countries a few from Australia and most people didn't want to put

734
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:46,720
their cameras on for some reason.

735
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:49,080
But I said no it's going to be on.

736
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:50,080
I want to see your face.

737
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,280
If I tell a joke and it lands I want to see you laughing.

738
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,600
It's really lonely talking to it like a blank screen which I had to do a few times because

739
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,900
I had some workshops where nobody put their camera on.

740
00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:02,880
So I made it a rule.

741
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,440
And this particular day it backfired because one particular guy was sitting there and his

742
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:13,200
partner walked behind him completely naked knowing they were on the Zoom.

743
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,400
How was that happening?

744
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,600
I know I know how do you not know that someone's at a computer that they're actually oh mind

745
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,160
you he wasn't talking so I guess she thought he was just looking at a screen and she walks

746
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:24,440
past completely naked.

747
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:25,440
Oh wow.

748
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,240
There was that one where the guy was doing it.

749
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:29,240
Yes.

750
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:30,240
I'm not a cat.

751
00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:31,240
I didn't see that one.

752
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:32,240
He couldn't get the cat filter off.

753
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:33,240
That one made us laugh a lot too.

754
00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:41,680
Isn't it funny that we can look back at that stuff now during the pandemic and laugh about

755
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:42,680
it.

756
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,520
Even just coming here today I was just mesmerised by still seeing people everywhere.

757
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:46,520
Yeah.

758
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:47,520
Sorry I don't rest.

759
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,360
Not at all.

760
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,960
I both hated and loved COVID.

761
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,320
I loved it from the perspective that I got to spend so much time with my son.

762
00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:02,600
We got we had so much time to play football and do all sorts of things together.

763
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,920
But I didn't like it because we were isolated and it was horrible.

764
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:11,160
Horrible to isolate everyone from their community from their friends but I guess there's always

765
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:12,560
good and bad and everything.

766
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:17,440
I'm sorry this is not my podcast but I'm curious to know from you with your background and

767
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:22,520
then obviously so many planes were grounded and you hear all these stories like pilots

768
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:27,040
weren't able to like they're going to lose their training credentials or whatever it

769
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,640
might be like from that perspective that would have been horrible.

770
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:30,640
It was.

771
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,560
Everyone was there were basically two lots two mindsets.

772
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,360
So some were actually three some were who are old timers.

773
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:42,440
Oh thank goodness you know like there's a break I can get to stay home.

774
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,360
Others were who had no training other than aviation.

775
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,500
So they'd never been anything other than a pilot straight out of school.

776
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:51,880
That's what they were going to do and that's all they knew.

777
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,640
They were thinking my life is over that I can't do anything else.

778
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,400
I don't know what else to do.

779
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:03,800
And then there were people like myself who had come into aviation or had other skill

780
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,400
sets other training trades etc.

781
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:12,000
And you know we could turn our hand to anything and it was like OK well I'll try this for

782
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,280
a while thinking we'll come back like we knew it was going to come back.

783
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:21,160
The world couldn't go on without aviation and all the freight companies.

784
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:26,800
So freight companies were hiring pilots and it was that thing of do I stay and get the

785
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:32,000
job keeper which was a lot less than what we were used to being paid.

786
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:37,160
Or do I go you know take the jump and go over to a freight or do I do something else.

787
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,400
I actually accepted a redundancy during this and I looked at it as an opportunity.

788
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:46,920
So it's like OK well I've had 20 plus years of my career there.

789
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,200
I'm was going to retire in a few years after anyway.

790
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,040
I'll just take it take it early and do something else now.

791
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,400
Got lemons and made lemonade.

792
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:55,400
That's it.

793
00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:01,560
Well and I don't know about you if you've interviewed anyone if you've been hiring but

794
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:06,640
that couple of years when the lockdowns were on and people were taking redundancies or

795
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:14,080
losing their jobs it doesn't really what I'm seeing is that companies are seeing that if

796
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,440
there's a gap of a couple of years there aren't questions.

797
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,280
So I OK. Yep we understand.

798
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,960
And whereas before if there was a gap why.

799
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:23,960
The red flag.

800
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:24,960
Yes.

801
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:25,960
Yeah.

802
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,680
But it's really the people who had the best mindset who survived during COVID.

803
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:34,320
I'm still staggered that we lived through that.

804
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,040
And got out of it.

805
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:40,920
I'm always fascinated and I would bring it back to our athletic performance.

806
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,440
You know the Tokyo Olympics from a performance point of view some of the what athletes were

807
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:49,160
able to do really made you sit back and go oh well maybe we've got this training thing

808
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:53,920
wrong because despite you know being locked out of venues and couldn't train or playing

809
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:59,120
together as teams it was some of the best performances the world has ever seen.

810
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:03,680
So I was sitting back thinking oh well maybe I only have to swim 40 kilometers a week and

811
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,520
not 80 kilometers a week and shows you the importance from a swimming perspective of

812
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:08,520
dry land.

813
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:13,960
But I think more than anything to your point it's you know the strength and the resilience

814
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:20,800
and that people got going through that was obviously unparalleled for many for all of

815
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,440
us really unless you'd lived through what was it?

816
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:25,440
The Spanish.

817
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:26,440
The Spanish flu.

818
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:27,440
The Spanish flu.

819
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:28,440
Yeah.

820
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:29,440
Absolutely.

821
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,440
So Daniel looking back on your career what would you say are the greatest lessons that

822
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:39,200
you've got out of swimming and your career since then?

823
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:47,040
For me the power of bringing a full self every day is the most important thing that I've

824
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:57,760
learnt in life so only coming out as a gay man at 26 I felt like I robbed myself of some

825
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:03,460
of the happiest and best years of my life but now that I am able to bring my full self

826
00:47:03,460 --> 00:47:11,920
to everything that I do that's the thing that I'm most proud of and the thing that I'm also

827
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,880
I regret the most as well if that makes sense.

828
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:22,800
So that from in terms of life and career that is the thing that would be on my headstone

829
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,920
if that was such a thing.

830
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:32,680
Do you think you would have been treated differently if your team knew?

831
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:33,680
Did they know?

832
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,400
No like I didn't really know to be honest with you.

833
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:46,640
I think hindsight I probably did but you just you suppress all of that sadly but you know

834
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:52,200
I talked earlier about I was scared standing behind the blocks and part of me often thinks

835
00:47:52,200 --> 00:48:00,560
was I scared because I just didn't know who I was and I didn't know I didn't have an identity

836
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,920
so to speak.

837
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:09,120
I don't believe me understanding who I was would have changed the results.

838
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,600
I don't think I would have won gold medals and so forth.

839
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:18,840
I just feel like I would have not put the car before the horse and I would have enjoyed

840
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:25,480
that process and swimming at Olympic Games a lot more but I can't change it so all I

841
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,520
do is ensure that I don't put myself in that same position again.

842
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:35,960
It just shows me that even though looking back now you feel maybe you weren't in the

843
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:41,200
right mindset or the right priorities you're still Olympian even with that.

844
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,000
And a very successful Olympian.

845
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,000
So wow.

846
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:55,080
Yeah and for me I love that because no one can take away being Olympian from us and we

847
00:48:55,080 --> 00:49:00,760
have adopted a phrase once an Olympian always an Olympian and not everyone has a great Olympic

848
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:07,520
experience which is why the role that we do I feel is really really important.

849
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:13,240
But for me I felt as though that was my only identity and I feel like that sort of you

850
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:18,640
know exasperated the way I was feeling and you know I had many regrets and if I could

851
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,600
have my time again probably that would be a big thing that I would change.

852
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:26,040
There would be many things that I would change and I'm happy to admit that.

853
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:27,040
Wouldn't we all?

854
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:28,840
We'd all love to go back in time.

855
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:34,920
We have routines that we use every day to make sure we are turning up our best.

856
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,520
Do you have any routines now?

857
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,280
You clearly are fit so what do you do now to make sure?

858
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,640
It's the nicest thing you've said.

859
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,520
So what do you do to maintain health but to turn up your best?

860
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:48,520
Exercise for me.

861
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,600
Both physically and more mentally.

862
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:57,280
I feel as though when I have a routine from an exercise point of view then I'm able to

863
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:03,280
bring not just my full self but my best self to work.

864
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:11,120
Interestingly I still get the guilty feelings if I'll go one or two days outside of my routine

865
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,520
of not exercising.

866
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:19,680
So for me exercise is what is the foundation of everything that I do because physically

867
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:25,240
obviously it's great even though my body does hurt but more mentally.

868
00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:28,600
So for me from a routine point of view it is 100% exercise.

869
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,560
So what does your typical day look like?

870
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:37,120
I'm usually up at quarter to six and I swim three times a week and I'll go to the gym

871
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:38,920
twice a week.

872
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,480
Thursday is temple day so in a sense I treat my body like a temple so I like to have a

873
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:43,480
rest.

874
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,480
Oh nice, I like that idea.

875
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,320
That's a good one.

876
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:51,760
And then usually I work by eight and usually I leave by six.

877
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:58,000
Daylight savings, my husband and I like to go for a walk after dinner.

878
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,720
We are home bodies Monday to Friday.

879
00:51:01,720 --> 00:51:05,840
The one thing and we said this in our wedding vows is whenever we can Sunday morning man

880
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:11,080
pool and marubra, best rock pool in the country, in the world, that is our thing every Sunday.

881
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,080
Yeah, rain, hail or shine.

882
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,400
12 months a year.

883
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,280
And when we can't do it we get sad.

884
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:19,560
But that's my life.

885
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:20,760
Do you have a dog?

886
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:22,320
No we do not.

887
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:26,360
We have no responsibility other than ourselves.

888
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:27,720
Is he a swimmer?

889
00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:32,440
We actually met at the swimming club but he was more a social member than a swimmer but

890
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,280
I'll leave it at that.

891
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,040
Do you still compete?

892
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:42,680
No I don't but I do one ocean swim a year, that's coming up in a couple of weeks.

893
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:48,240
And I flirt with the idea of doing masters again but I'm just worried that I'm going

894
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:51,960
to go into a start block and I'll dive in and I'll rip the hammy off the bone.

895
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:56,920
I'm acutely aware of what my body's limitations are.

896
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:02,360
Okay, I can only imagine what it would be like turning up to a masters tournament and

897
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:06,120
then you've trained a bit and then you look over and there's Daniel Kowalski.

898
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:11,160
I'll do this ocean water swim and I won't win my age group.

899
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:20,680
There's these weekend warriors who are just insanely fit and it's, you know, I must admit

900
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:28,360
it's probably the most demoralising experience because I beat Daniel Kowalski.

901
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,400
You can hear them saying it.

902
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,400
I believe that you currently hold a masters world record though.

903
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:34,400
I don't anymore.

904
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:35,400
You don't, it's been taken from you hasn't it?

905
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:36,400
No, it's all been taken.

906
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:37,400
Yeah.

907
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,560
When you hear that you're like, you provided some joy in someone's life.

908
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:42,560
Exactly, exactly.

909
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:43,560
I'm here for you.

910
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:44,560
They're going home bragging.

911
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:45,560
That hurts.

912
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:49,560
You could have merch as you know.

913
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,560
I beat Daniel Kowalski, you can go and give them a t-shirt afterwards.

914
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:53,560
Well they buy it.

915
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:58,480
Well hopefully I only have to buy one or two.

916
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,240
I think you need to get back to competing mate.

917
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:01,240
Guy does.

918
00:53:01,240 --> 00:53:09,040
We sometimes watch water polo matches down at Dawn Fraser and Guy gets the like, ah,

919
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:10,920
and then but then he goes, I couldn't.

920
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,680
Could you imagine the next day?

921
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:15,920
I do imagine.

922
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,440
I have nightmares still to this day because I dislocated my shoulder and ripped it all

923
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,280
apart and had a couple of operations and it's still not stable.

924
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:28,520
It's, the ligament's still missing and so we were working in Darwin and I said, let's

925
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:29,840
go and get a massage.

926
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:34,960
So we're getting this massage and she happens to grab my shoulder, put it into weird position,

927
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,120
and then massages and it popped out.

928
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:41,920
I screamed, she screamed and I think we were both screaming at the same pitch.

929
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:45,720
And I was just about at drool stage, you know when you're so relaxed you're like, oh, and

930
00:53:45,720 --> 00:53:47,720
then I hear this and I said, are you right?

931
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:49,240
Not really wanting to move from the position.

932
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:50,240
He goes, no.

933
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:56,800
It's dangling at the front and so I have constant regular nightmares about going back and playing

934
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:01,520
and that happening and so the start of the nightmare is, oh, you've been selected again.

935
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:06,080
Oh, you know, because the ego death that you have when you retire, it never goes away in

936
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,120
my, well, it hasn't gone away in my psyche.

937
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,640
I keep having these recurring dreams where I'm getting the call up, oh, fantastic, back

938
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:16,040
on the team and then I jump in and the shoulder dislocates and so if you've got any tips on

939
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,480
how to finish those nightmares, how to get them out of my life.

940
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,280
As long as you don't die in your dreams, right?

941
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,360
No, I don't die in my dreams but I'm in pain.

942
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:24,920
Yeah, I can't help you.

943
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:25,920
Okay.

944
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:30,080
So, Chris, if you don't mind me asking you a question, as recording this, the World Championships

945
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,320
are on, are you following it?

946
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,520
Yeah, 9.30 tonight, I'm nine now, Australian Sharks.

947
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:37,280
How do you feel like when you watch that?

948
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:38,280
I struggle.

949
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,000
I'm in the water with them.

950
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:45,000
I'm so, being a goalkeeper, they played South Africa the other night and it was a bit of

951
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:46,000
a whitewash.

952
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,640
It was a 20 goal difference.

953
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:53,400
It wasn't really a high class game but I can't wait for tonight's game against Spain because

954
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,840
Spain have got some of the best players in the world and our guys are playing phenomenally

955
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,720
and my mate Tim is the coach.

956
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:01,720
We played together at Balmain.

957
00:55:01,720 --> 00:55:06,180
So yeah, no, absolutely, following them and looking forward to seeing their successes

958
00:55:06,180 --> 00:55:07,440
and then Japan as well.

959
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:10,360
I'll be watching every game eagerly.

960
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:11,360
Yeah, fantastic.

961
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:12,360
I love it.

962
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:16,220
Just speaking about the ego death, did you have an ego death?

963
00:55:16,220 --> 00:55:27,120
So when you finished, were you lost at what to do and your identity as an Olympic swimmer,

964
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:32,120
did you feel that you couldn't use that anymore or who were you if you weren't that?

965
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,080
I was always striving to be more than just an Olympic swimmer.

966
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:38,600
I didn't want that to be my sole identity.

967
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:42,840
So yeah, for me I was striving for it not to be that.

968
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:43,840
So you're healthy.

969
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,160
You're a healthy mental.

970
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,480
I feel like I am now.

971
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:53,280
That's why you're in the position, I guess, because you understand it.

972
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,000
You knew what to do.

973
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:59,440
I feel like there's so many who could do the role that I'm doing.

974
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,840
That's humility for you.

975
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:08,720
I do feel like the experiences that I've had have set me up to be able to do the role.

976
00:56:08,720 --> 00:56:13,360
I look forward to the day when I pass it on to the next person.

977
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,700
What is in the future for you?

978
00:56:15,700 --> 00:56:17,560
So I'm almost 50.

979
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:18,560
So I feel like...

980
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:19,560
Oh boo hoo!

981
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:20,560
So old.

982
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:25,160
Because 55 in a couple of weeks and we won't say.

983
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:26,160
I'm younger than you.

984
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,440
Well you wouldn't know it, so you're both doing amazing.

985
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,520
Thank you, Daniel.

986
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:40,920
So for me, I feel like Brisbane 2032 in some professional capacity would be the end of

987
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:46,040
full-time work and I can go down to hopefully sort of part-time kind of role.

988
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:52,600
So I'd like to stay involved within the Olympic movement, some way, shape or form.

989
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,040
Don't know exactly what that looks like.

990
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,240
I think it's going to be very competitive to get a role for anything to do with Brisbane

991
00:56:59,240 --> 00:57:01,680
2032.

992
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:03,280
But that would be...

993
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:06,840
My husband and I have talked a lot about moving to the Gold Coast.

994
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,240
So we've kind of got like a five, six year plan anyway.

995
00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:11,240
You've got a spare room?

996
00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:14,960
We don't even have a house or anything.

997
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:15,960
Join the cube.

998
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:16,960
Yeah, I could imagine.

999
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:23,160
Yeah, so for me, I don't entirely know.

1000
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,480
Which is exciting as well.

1001
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:30,480
I think we talked a lot about how people adjusted during COVID.

1002
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:39,560
What it's taught me is that you can re-skill and re-train or learn something new and it

1003
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,480
can be transferable into something else.

1004
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:46,400
So yeah, it's a really good question.

1005
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:47,400
We'll wait and see.

1006
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:48,400
Yeah.

1007
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,120
Well, Daniel, can I just say a very big thank you?

1008
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:51,120
Thank you for coming in.

1009
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:52,120
Thank you.

1010
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:56,960
You've been an inspiration to many young swimmers and other athletes.

1011
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:01,680
I looked up to you and we were both competing in different sports and it's been an absolute

1012
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,000
pleasure learning from you today.

1013
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,520
Michelle and I have a gift for you.

1014
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:07,520
We'll give you in a moment.

1015
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:17,720
We want to say that the lessons that you've provided us today and our listeners are so

1016
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:18,720
valuable.

1017
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:20,320
So really appreciate your time, mate.

1018
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:21,320
Thank you both.

1019
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:22,320
I've absolutely loved it.

1020
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:23,320
Thank you.

1021
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:24,320
Take care, mate.

1022
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:25,320
Cheers.

1023
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:26,320
Well, that was fun.

1024
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:27,320
That was fun.

1025
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:28,320
You're such a clown.

1026
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:29,320
The clown.

1027
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:30,320
Lady captain.

1028
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:31,320
Lady captain.

1029
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:32,320
And who's going to listen to this?

1030
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:33,320
Maybe our mums.

1031
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:59,320
Thanks, mum.