1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,120 G'day, leaders. In this podcast, it's a bit different. Michelle interviews me about the 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:10,640 topic of memory. So we're going to learn how the memory works, why I got into teaching 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:16,320 memory, why my company is called New Memory, how to improve it, why we need to improve 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:22,200 it, why memories aren't accurate, and a whole heap of boring science. No, it's not boring. 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,760 But we learn about how the memory works. And Michelle did a great job of extracting from 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,520 me everything I know about memory. Hope you enjoy. Cheers. 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,360 Why did it count backwards? Oh no, we're now recording. 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,360 What? Hello Captain. 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,360 Oh what do I say? 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:44,360 Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away. 11 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,360 What are we going to talk about? 12 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:57,360 I don't know. So leadership, life, and everything else. 13 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:58,360 And we're live. 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,360 No, we're still recording. 15 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:02,360 Hey Michelle. 16 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:03,360 Hi guys. 17 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:04,360 How you doing? 18 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:05,360 Good, how you doing? 19 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:06,360 Yeah, I'm doing real good. 20 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:17,360 Good. In today's episode, I was thinking we do a bit of deep diving into why memory works, 21 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:27,360 why new memory. So your business is New Memory Australia, and you do training, and you do 22 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:36,360 keynotes, and coaching and mentoring. And so I'm curious as to why the name New Memory. 23 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:44,360 Okay, so New Memory is a combination of two words, new and memory. New is Newman, my surname. 24 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:50,360 And memory is the very first thing I ever taught as a professional development trainer. 25 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:58,360 So before that I taught IT, as you know I'm a nerd. But I was very fascinated in memory 26 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:04,360 and improving your memory because I thought I had a terrible one. I had a shocking memory 27 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:09,360 for names, I had trouble remembering people's names, and I just basically thought I had 28 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:15,360 a bad memory. And it turns out I didn't. I had an untrained memory. And so the very first 29 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:21,360 course I ever taught was because I was learning how to improve my memory, and then I taught 30 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,360 it because I think that's the best way to learn anything is to teach it to other people. 31 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:26,360 Absolutely. 32 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,360 And then I just got fascinated in the subject, and then when I started my own company I called 33 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:30,360 it New Memory. 34 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:37,360 Ah, so how did you learn how to have a good memory? I know you were teaching it, which 35 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:43,360 is when I was, you know, I'd just learnt to fly, and the first thing you do is then 36 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,360 become an instructor. There's a way to build hours, and instructing is one of the ways 37 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,360 that I did it, which is silly that somebody who's just learnt is then training others 38 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:53,360 to learn. 39 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:54,360 I find that funny, that's hilarious. 40 00:02:54,360 --> 00:03:00,360 That's right. But it was a great way for me to learn beyond passing the check, the flight 41 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:06,360 test, because I needed to have a better understanding in order to teach it. But how did you learn 42 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:07,360 to improve your memory? 43 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:13,360 Okay, so I got interested in it. I think I watched an infomercial at one stage about 44 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,360 somebody who was selling this program about how to improve your memory. 45 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,360 Between the Ad Blaster and the NutriBullet. 46 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,360 That's it, yeah. I never had a six pack, but I had a good memory because I bought that 47 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:27,360 program. So I bought this program. It was a tape program back when we had cassette tapes 48 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:32,360 a long time ago, and I listened to it, and it did work a little bit. It did work well, 49 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,360 but the guy never taught the background to it, why the techniques were working or anything 50 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:41,360 like that. And it turns out later on that he just rabid on somebody else's learning 51 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:47,360 and claimed it as his own and his own system. But I then started to study it. So I found 52 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,360 every book I could get my hands on, any learning program that was out there, and I just read 53 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,360 everything I could. And I found out that the very first memory technique that was ever 54 00:03:55,360 --> 00:04:01,360 invented was invented in around 400 BC by a Greek lyric poet called Simonides. 55 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:07,360 And so when I started to research and look into the memory techniques, I found out that 56 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,360 they're all based on the same thing. They're based on two things. Basically, they're based 57 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:16,360 on a location for the memory. So putting the memory somewhere that you can find it easily. 58 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:21,360 I'll talk more about that later if you like. And then I found out that every human being 59 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:26,360 has what's called perfect visual memory. Not photographic, but perfect visual memory. 60 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,360 So every memory technique ever invented since 400 BC is based on two things, location or 61 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:37,360 loci in Latin and visualizations, pictures and things that you can see. Because we've 62 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:42,360 got what's called a three second echoic memory. Have you ever met somebody, shook their hand 63 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,360 and forgot their name within three seconds? Absolutely. I feel like Dory from Finding 64 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:52,360 the End. We're all Dory when it comes to our listening, our echoic memory. Because we can 65 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:58,360 hear a sound and forget it within three seconds unless we take that sound out of our echoic 66 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:03,360 memory and bring it into our short term working memory and then turn it into something. So 67 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,360 put it into context, make it a picture or something that we can actually remember. So 68 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:13,360 I learned when I was studying memory that I didn't have a bad memory. I had an untrained 69 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:20,360 memory. And I find this quite amazing that even at school, we weren't taught how to use 70 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:26,360 our memory. So we put kids into exams and we test them on what they can remember. Well, 71 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,360 that was rote. Rote learning. Yeah. That's how we got it into our heads in the first 72 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:35,360 place. So we put them into an exam and we test them on their memory, but we were never 73 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:42,360 taught how to use our memory. I think that's quite ridiculous that since 400 BC, we've 74 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:47,360 had these memory techniques. So you could give me a list of a thousand things and I 75 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:53,360 could report them back to you. So I trained my memory to do that. It was a major system 76 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:59,360 developed in the 1700s and I do it in classes. I've been a witness to that in a couple of 77 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,360 your workshops. So I only go up to 20 in the workshops just because otherwise 700, 800, 78 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:09,360 2000 things would just take forever. And it would take a lot of my mental energy. But 79 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,360 it's very, very easy to remember large amounts of data if you know the techniques. And so 80 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,360 we've had these techniques for centuries, since 400 BC and there's other techniques invented 81 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,360 through the centuries, but we still don't teach it in schools. I find this quite amazing. 82 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,360 So yeah, I got really fascinated in memory, how the memory works. I got into the science 83 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:30,360 of it and I read every book I could get my hands on. And there was basically two authors 84 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:35,360 that are very prolific. The first guy is a guy called Tony Boozhan. Tony Boozhan wrote 85 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:40,360 many, many books on the brain and memory. And so I read all his books and he was the 86 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:45,360 one that really introduced me to all of the techniques that are out there. And then the 87 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:51,360 eight, I think he might've won more world memory championships by now. So there's a 88 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:56,360 guy called Dominic O'Brien, who was the world memory champion. He's one of the memoryards. 89 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:01,360 I think they call them memoryards, but they go off and they compete against each other 90 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:06,360 on memory techniques. What they can remember. Yeah, yeah. So remembering decks of cards 91 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:11,360 or pi to how many digits. And it would be the most boring competition to go and watch. 92 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:16,360 Not the game you play in the car with the kids. On the way to the shops, I went to the 93 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,360 shops and I bought a banana and I bought a banana and an apple. 94 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:24,360 I think they play more sophisticated games, but I think it'd be the most boring Olympiad 95 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:28,360 there is to watch people just sitting there concentrating and trying to remember stuff. 96 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,360 But yeah, so I got really fascinated with it and I started to teach it and teach it 97 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,360 how the memory works. 98 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:42,360 Awesome. So, okay, you learnt how the memory works. How does the memory work? 99 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:48,360 Okay. All right. So we have a, I think it's kind of shaped like a peanut, maybe a little 100 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:53,360 bit elongated, a little thing called the hippocampus. There's two of them on either side of their 101 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,360 brain in the left and right hemispheres called the hippocampi. And it's essentially the 102 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:04,360 librarian of the brain. So its job is to pay attention to information. The very first 103 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:10,360 question it asks is, is this information important? If the answer is yes, we pay attention to 104 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,360 that information. So imagine that information is coming into your brain through one of your 105 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,360 five senses and the hippocampus goes, hey, is this important? If the answer to that question 106 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,360 is yes, it then pays attention to it. And so when it pays attention to it, what it's 107 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:27,360 then got to do, it's got to put it into context so that it can store it in the appropriate 108 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,360 part of the library. 109 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:35,360 I'm just, I'm going to interrupt here briefly. So those exercises that you do in training 110 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:42,360 where not you do, but I have been in training where they say, okay, count how many basketball, 111 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,360 how many, you know, 112 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,360 The white team and the black team. 113 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,360 Yeah. And then there's a gorilla that goes in the background. 114 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:50,360 And you don't see the gorilla. 115 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:55,360 Yeah. Because you're concentrating, you're already determined what the important information 116 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,360 is. So then you disregard everything else. 117 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,360 Yeah. So there's only so much information we can pay attention to at once. Our brain 118 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:07,360 is being bombarded with billions of bits of information every second. And so we pay attention 119 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,360 to that, which we deem to be important. And so when we pay attention to it, our hippocampus 120 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:16,360 now needs to put it into context so that it can store it in the appropriate part of the 121 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:22,360 brain. And so it's a librarian. It's essentially encoding the information that's coming in. 122 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,360 And so then it's filing it away in the memory. And it actually does most of its work when 123 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,360 we sleep. So when we go to sleep, this is why sleep is so important, especially if you're 124 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,360 studying for exams or whatever. So when you go to sleep, your brain does more work when 125 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,360 you're asleep than when you're awake. What it's doing, it's filing away all of those 126 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,360 memories as a permanent memory. I've read that there's a theory, I don't know if this 127 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,360 is true or not, that when you dream, a lot of that is encoding memories. 128 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:51,360 Yeah, actually, I do know, and I used to do a lot of this when I'd study. So I'd break 129 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:57,360 it down to just a number of points. You write everything you know and then break it down 130 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:02,360 to less and less and less so there are key words. And then I'd go to sleep. 131 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,360 And then that's where your brain is remembering it. 132 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:09,360 That's right. I would stop studying and go and do something, go for a run, go swimming, 133 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:15,360 go to sleep, listen to music, whatever. And then the next day, my recall was amazing. 134 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:22,360 But if I stayed up all night, eating coffee grounds, or at uni, I know I used to. 135 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:23,360 Chewing on coffee beans. Wow. 136 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,360 I did because I was thinking, I've got to do this, I've got to do this. 137 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:27,360 Trying to cram more in. 138 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:33,360 That's it. I had this belief that the more times I read it or the closer to the exam 139 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:39,360 that I read it, my memory of it would be fresher and better. No. 140 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,360 It doesn't work. No, no. Cramming lots of information in your brain, not giving your 141 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:49,360 brain a chance to rest, digest, and then store. It doesn't work. And the actual optimal number, 142 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,360 what you should do is you should study for 20 minutes, go away for 10 minutes, doing 143 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,360 nothing, doing nothing, like just relax. 144 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:57,360 Not hanging out the washing. 145 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,360 Yeah, not hanging out the washing. Beautiful. Doing that. Something that doesn't require 146 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:05,360 a lot of thinking. And then come back, review what you studied in the last 20 minutes, review 147 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:11,360 it for five, 10 minutes, and then repeat that for another thing. So 20 minutes, 10 minutes 148 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:17,360 off, review, 20 minutes. That's the optimal for learning. So if you've got kids studying, 149 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,360 the best thing to do is get them to study for 20 minutes, stop, stand up, go and do 150 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:26,360 something, go for a walk, go and throw a basketball. Come back, review what they studied in that 151 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:32,360 20 minutes, then do it again. Or do it a couple of times, have a sleep, then come back and 152 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:37,360 review it. Because your brain does need to repeat things to remember it, but you cannot 153 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:38,360 cram, cram, cram, cram, cram. 154 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:39,360 Or rote. 155 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,360 And rote learning. Rote learning does work to a certain extent. 156 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:43,360 Five lines of five, two to ten. 157 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:48,360 Yeah, like all of that pattern and rhythm of when we sang our times tables. That actually 158 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,360 works, but that's repetition until it's hardwired into the brain. 159 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,360 Do you still, with the alphabet, sing it from Sesame Street? 160 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,360 A, B, C, D, D, D, D. 161 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,360 Yeah, of course. And well, rhyme and rhythm are very, very strong components of memory, 162 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:07,360 absolutely. And so that's another technique that we use with young children, but then 163 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,360 we don't use with older children because we think, oh, we can't use rhyme and rhythm when 164 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:16,360 we're in high school. We can't sit there and sing E equals MC squared. It'd be silly, 165 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:21,360 wouldn't it? Or you'd feel silly anyway. But yeah, I still find it amazing that a lot of 166 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,360 the techniques for remembering things aren't taught in schools. 167 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:32,360 How do we, like, if you can give us a quick, how can we improve our memory? 168 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,360 Yeah, yeah. Okay. Step one, step one, this is the most vital thing. And I've said this 169 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,360 in another podcast. You cannot say to people, I have a bad memory. 170 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:41,360 Yeah. 171 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,360 Because what you're doing is you're programming your subconscious mind. We spoke about this 172 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:49,360 in a podcast a couple of podcasts ago. So if you say to somebody, I'm bad at remembering 173 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:54,360 names or I'm terrible at remembering dates or whatever it is, whatever you label as a 174 00:12:54,360 --> 00:13:01,360 skill that you don't have, you're creating an internal belief system, a record in your 175 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,360 robot, in your subconscious mind. So the next time you meet somebody, you shake their hand, 176 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,360 you say, g'day Michael. And then right then your brain goes, Michael, what's Michael? 177 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,360 Michael's a name. What do we know about names? We're no good at names. Oh, I forget about 178 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,360 Michael. So within three seconds, you've forgotten the name because your brain has been 179 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,360 programmed to not remember Michael. So the very first step in becoming better at remembering 180 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:25,360 anything is to say that you don't say that you've got a bad memory, say that you've got 181 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,360 an untrained memory and that it's going to get better the more you practice it and the 182 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,360 more techniques that you use. And then you just start to learn techniques. So there's 183 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,360 some very, very powerful techniques that people can use to remember names, to remember shopping 184 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:44,360 lists, to remember things, to study. So I'll give you the quickest and easiest one. 185 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:45,360 Yeah. 186 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:51,360 Let's say people's names. It's a four step process. Okay. So actually, can I go back 187 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:56,360 in time and just tell you why I had a bad memory for names? I was a shy sensitive insecure 188 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,360 little silk. I've said that many times in this podcast. And being shy, you often keep 189 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:05,360 your head down. Your chin is down. So you're not looking up. And when you're not looking 190 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,360 up, you're not looking at faces. When you're not looking at faces, you don't see faces. 191 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,360 When you don't see faces, you can't remember faces. So even if you hear somebody's name, 192 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,360 if you don't have a face to attach it to, how can you possibly remember the name? So 193 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,360 I was very shy. I didn't pay a lot of attention to people's names because I wasn't really 194 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,360 looking up a lot. That was the start of it. I think also the fact that I didn't think 195 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:29,360 I had a good memory. So that was an internal belief system. And I had a fear. I had a real 196 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:34,360 big fear. I had a couple of events happen to me when I was young where I used somebody's 197 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,360 name. It wasn't their name. They laughed. And I got very embarrassed in front of a group 198 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,360 of adults. And so that's the last time I used people's names for a long, long time. So I 199 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:47,360 had a massive phobia about it. And I avoided using people's names. And one of my biggest 200 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:53,360 fears was introducing two friends to each other that I knew really well. So two friends 201 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,360 that didn't know each other, but I knew them very well. I might've known them my whole 202 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:01,360 life. Introducing them to each other would cause massive fear in me, just in case I forgot 203 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,360 one of their names, even though I knew them forever. 204 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:10,360 So you know how you're saying that you've used, called somebody by their incorrect name. 205 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:16,360 Yeah. For five years, I lived next to somebody. Yeah. And I called them Greg. Oh, and their 206 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:22,360 name was... No, no, it was Gary. But so it was kind of, it was kind of the same, but 207 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:27,360 they didn't, they didn't correct me. And so I even wrote cards to them. Hey Greg, happy 208 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,360 birthday, Greg. I introduced them. Thanks for taking my bins out, Greg. I introduced 209 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:36,360 them to other friends. Oh wow, that's sad that they didn't have the confidence to say, 210 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,360 hey, that's not my name. I know. That was being so polite to you. They were. Oh, but 211 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,360 that would have been much better if they'd earlier on they just said, hey, it's actually 212 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:53,360 Greg. No, sorry. What was their actual name? I forgot. Oh, that's my sad thing. Yeah. Anyway, 213 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:58,360 sorry, I interrupted. That's okay. Not at all. So, all right. So I didn't have a good memory 214 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,360 for names. But then I learned a technique. It's a very simple technique. Okay. It's a 215 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:06,360 four-stage process, right? It's called see, hear, convert, attach. Right. So you firstly 216 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,360 got to start looking at people. You've got to be a student of people's faces. So if you 217 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:15,360 want to remember people's names, become a student of people's faces. So notice somebody's 218 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:20,360 eyes, notice the shape of their mouth, their cheeks, their earlobes. Just, just notice 219 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:25,360 how we're all different and we are all different. So just spend time. Don't be a creep looking 220 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,360 at staring at people, but, but just notice how faces are different. Like people have 221 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:33,360 got beautiful noses or they've got different shaped eyes. Just see the person. Cause, and 222 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:38,360 try and find a feature of their face that stands out. The feature of their face that 223 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,360 stands out is where your eyes are going to go to the next time you see them. So if they've 224 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,360 got this gorgeous eyebrow or this beautiful eye. One eyebrow. One eyebrow. Yes. They have 225 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:52,360 one eyebrow. One long brow going across the top. I've had friends, I just have a bit of 226 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:58,360 it. No. Anyway, so just notice a part of their face that stands out or the features that 227 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,360 stand out, whether they've got beautiful eyes, they've got great cheekbones or they've got, 228 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,360 you know, a longer nose than normal or the chin is quite pointed, whatever it is, just, 229 00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:10,360 just start to really see people's notice what stands out about the person because that's 230 00:17:10,360 --> 00:17:14,360 where your eyes can be drawn to the next time they see them. Then the next step. So see, 231 00:17:14,360 --> 00:17:19,360 hear, convert, attach. Here, you've got to actually hear the name because if you believe 232 00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:23,360 you can't remember names, you're not even going to pay attention to the name. No. So 233 00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:28,360 if somebody says their name to you, really pay attention to it. So if they say, my name 234 00:17:28,360 --> 00:17:35,360 is Mark, just really pay attention to the name because you know. So what if you miss 235 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:41,360 the name? So they say, hi, my name is Mark. And especially if they're from a culture, 236 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:44,360 whether they say their first and second names together and they say it really quickly. I 237 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:48,360 always say, can you say that again? I didn't catch your name. But what if then you say, 238 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:52,360 then you don't get it. It's like, no, no, you just keep asking. You say, sorry, didn't 239 00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:56,360 get it. Can you say your first name really slowly for me? Can you spell it? Yeah, yeah, 240 00:17:56,360 --> 00:18:00,360 absolutely. I've done that. I've done that. And I do that in my classes. I remember meeting 241 00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:06,360 a Shalani. Okay. So Shalani is not a common name here in Australia. A lovely lady, beautiful 242 00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:11,360 lady. And I said to her, what's your name? She said Shalani, but she said it really quickly. 243 00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:16,360 So I asked her to slow it down. And the reason why I was getting her to slow it down is because 244 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:23,360 I needed to be able to capture that, to turn it into something that I can remember. And 245 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:27,360 when she said her name, I said, oh, can you say that again? Because I needed to really 246 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:31,360 have a chance to remember something that I've never heard before. If you've heard it before, 247 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:36,360 Mark, it's going to be easier to remember. But if it's an unusual name or a name that 248 00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:41,360 they said so quickly, you couldn't pronounce it again. Just ask them to say it again. Nobody 249 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:46,360 minds you asking their name again. And just say, hey, do you mind saying that again? I 250 00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:49,360 didn't catch your name the first time. And what you're doing is you're actually paying 251 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:53,360 attention to them. You're showing interest in them. So don't let somebody just throw 252 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:58,360 and a lot of shy people throw their name out really quickly. Yeah, because they don't think 253 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:03,360 that they're important, but show them that they are important. So see their face, hear 254 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:08,360 their name and do not leave that second stage until you've got the name. The next step is 255 00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:16,360 to convert. We do not remember sounds. We've got a three second echoic memory. We'll remember 256 00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:21,360 sounds for three seconds. You've got to convert the name into something that you can remember. 257 00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:26,360 And as I said before, we all have perfect visual memory, not photographic, but perfect 258 00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:30,360 visual memory. You will remember stuff that you see. So you're going to now turn that 259 00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:35,360 name into a picture. And so what I've done over the years, I've built a database of pictures. 260 00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:45,360 So every single mark that I need, I just put a mark on their face. Every single Nick has 261 00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:50,360 nicked himself shaving. I'm sorry, but Nicole also has. So Nick and Nicole have nicked 262 00:19:50,360 --> 00:20:00,360 themselves shaving. So Adam, he gets a fig leaf. So does Eve. So I've created a picture 263 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:05,360 for every name. And so the way I did it is whatever picture comes to mind when you hear 264 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:09,360 that name, just use that picture. For example, once I heard somebody say James, and I didn't 265 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:12,360 have a picture for James, so I thought, oh, what picture, what picture? And I immediately 266 00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:19,360 thought of them wearing a bow tie. And I have no idea why. It may be James Bond, the character, 267 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:24,360 he would wear a bow tie. But as soon as I met a James, I just put a bow tie on them. 268 00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:31,360 And so I just trust my memory. If I see a bow tie, I immediately think James. That's 269 00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:37,360 it. That's my picture for James. But for example, with Steve, I use a stove, Steve, stove, because 270 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:42,360 it sounds like the name. So if I see, if I met a Steve, I just put his hair on fire. 271 00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:47,360 So what you're doing is you're basically creating a database of pictures for names. And if you 272 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:55,360 don't have a picture in that moment, create one. And is Anna Green Gables? Yeah. Who else? 273 00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:03,360 Anyway, I've got lots of them, lots of them. Alison is a lesson. So I met an Alison who 274 00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:11,360 was a world windsurfer champion. And so every time I meet an Alison, I just say windsurfer, 275 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:16,360 giving me a windsurfing lesson. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yep. So you're converting 276 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:20,360 a name into a picture because you remember pictures. But now the final thing is you need 277 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:25,360 to attach the picture to the person. And so you attach the picture to a feature on the 278 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:29,360 person that you will notice next time you see them. So if they've got beautiful eyes, 279 00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:33,360 attach it to their eyes. If they've got a beauty spot on their cheek, attach it to their 280 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:39,360 beauty spot or whatever. And so if you do that quickly, and it doesn't, excuse me, I'm 281 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:44,360 just coming. If you do that quickly, just see here, attach, convert, sorry, see here, 282 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:49,360 convert, attach. In that order, you'll find remembering names much, much easier. It also 283 00:21:49,360 --> 00:22:02,360 becomes fun. Like you know how you were saying how in the first part, why, you know, one 284 00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:06,360 of the first steps is that you don't say, I have a bad memory or I'm really bad with 285 00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:13,360 names or bad with faces or whatever. Why do we need to improve it though? Because that's 286 00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:18,360 kind of a great excuse. Yeah, a lot of people use it as an excuse, but it's a lazy excuse. 287 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:22,360 Oh, I've got a terrible memory for names. Sorry, can you just repeat your name? Yeah. 288 00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:28,360 We all know it's a common thing. And so we show empathy for people who forget names. 289 00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:35,360 But why should we do it? Well, because human beings like to be remembered. We like to be 290 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:41,360 important. We like to be validated by somebody's memory. If somebody walks up and says, hey, 291 00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:45,360 you Michelle, didn't we meet blah, blah, blah, you immediately feel good. You feel noticed. 292 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:50,360 You feel important. And if you're a salesperson, if you're a leader, one of the best leaders 293 00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:55,360 I've ever met. Oh, I love this story. So I worked at the Australian Institute of Sport 294 00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:59,360 at the Australian Sports Commission. I worked on the help desk. I was a nerd. I looked after 295 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:03,360 the IT. I remember walking out of the room one day, I've got the help desk phone, one 296 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:07,360 of the original mobile phones, I'm running out of the building. And this gentleman was 297 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:15,360 walking into the building being showed around the Australian Sports Commission. And the 298 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:22,360 gentleman stopped me and said, Hey, guy, this is John. He's our new director, John 299 00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:27,360 Bulkby, his name was. And so he's the new director of the Australian Sports Commission. 300 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:31,360 And I said, John, nice to meet you. He said, guy, what do you do? I said, I'm on the help 301 00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:36,360 desk, John. And I'm running off to help somebody now. Love it to meet you. 302 00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:41,360 And I went on to help somebody. Anyway, a couple of days later, I'm walking past him, 303 00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:46,360 he goes, guy, how are you going? How's the help desk? He remembered me. But he didn't 304 00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:53,360 just remember me. He met probably two, three, 400 people on that day and he remembered all 305 00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:59,360 of them. And I spoke to him about his prodigious memory. And he said, Oh, yeah, it's just something 306 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:05,360 that I was told is really important. And so he's practised it. And he, prodigious memory. 307 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:13,360 And very personable, personable bloke as well. So yeah, if you're a leader, spend time 308 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:17,360 practising, remembering people's names. It makes, especially if you're a senior leader 309 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:23,360 in a large organisation, it's not hard to do. Yeah. Just spend time learning people's 310 00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:26,360 names and stop saying that you're bad at it because you can become a really influential 311 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:30,360 person if you remember people and if you can remember details about the person. So if you 312 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:36,360 want to remember people's names and details about them, just create visual stories. So 313 00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:41,360 if you meet, let's say we meet a beautiful lady called Michelle and we know that she's 314 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:44,360 a pilot. What you do is you put a leraplane on her shoulder. So the next time you see 315 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:48,360 it, you look at the plane and you go, ah, she's a pilot. And then she tells you that 316 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:53,360 she's got twins. So imagine that she's holding twins and they're running around her legs 317 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:57,360 and just see that happening when you see her. And then she says, Oh, but I've got an older 318 00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:03,360 son and he's six foot seven. So you imagine this young man standing next to her who's 319 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:07,360 like looking down on her because he's six foot seven. And so you see that picture, you 320 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:10,360 see all of those pictures and you're going to remember that next time you see them. And 321 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:12,360 that's how you remember details. 322 00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:20,360 So context would be very important or could help you as well. 323 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:24,360 Yes. Yeah. Context is vital. And that's essentially what memory is all about. It's all 324 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:30,360 about context and storage. So if I said to you this, if I said, um, I'll use the example 325 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:37,360 I use in the training all the time. Uh, it was a toxic waste dump. You're going, what? 326 00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:42,360 What do you mean? But now if I did this, right? Hey Michelle, what was the big event that 327 00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:47,360 happened in Sydney in the year 2000? The Olympics. And where did we hold the Olympics, Michelle? 328 00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:53,360 Sydney. Whereabouts in Sydney? Homebush. And what was Homebush before it was an Olympic 329 00:25:53,360 --> 00:26:01,360 village? No idea. Well, it was two things. It was a swamp and it was a toxic waste dump. 330 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:07,360 In fact, it was one of the most toxic parts of Australia, toxic lands in Australia. We 331 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:12,360 built and held the most successful Olympics of all time and a toxic waste dump. Go Aussie. 332 00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:17,360 Yay. But see now how... France has something to live up to. Yes they do. But they've got 333 00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:22,360 the yoke that we all... Anyway, um, but now in 20 years time when you're sitting at the 334 00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:26,360 pub doing pub trivia and somebody yells at, Hey, what was Homebush before it was the Olympic 335 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:29,360 village? You're going to go, it was a toxic waste dump. And that's going to be in your 336 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:34,360 brain because what I asked you to do is to go into your brain and open up the files. 337 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:39,360 I said, uh, what was the big event that happened in the years, year 2000 in Sydney? And so 338 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:44,360 you opened up the Sydney drawer and then you opened up the year folder and you found the 339 00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:48,360 2000 folder and you opened it up and you then looked for the subfolder that said events. 340 00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:52,360 So you opened that up, events, Olympic games. And then now you're holding the Olympic games 341 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:56,360 file. And then I said, okay, and so where did we hold the Olympic games? And now you're 342 00:26:56,360 --> 00:27:00,360 ruffling through the Olympic file going location. And then you pull that out and it says Homebush. 343 00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:03,360 And now I said, Oh, so what was Homebush before it was an Olympic village and you're ruffling 344 00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:09,360 through the Homebush file going history, location history. And you open it up and in your mind 345 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:15,360 it was empty. And that's when I said, okay, it was a swamp and it was a toxic waste dump. 346 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:19,360 And now what you've done is you've just put that new information into that folder in that 347 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:26,360 file inside Homebush, inside Sydney event 2000, and you've closed that filing cabinet. 348 00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:30,360 What I've done is I've worked with your hippocampus. I've given you the context for that memory. 349 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:35,360 And so now for the rest of your life, it's stored in the proper part of the library, 350 00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:39,360 your, your memory, and you can recall it now. So if I asked you in three weeks time, Hey, 351 00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:43,360 what was Homebush before it was the, uh, the Olympic village, you're going to say it's a 352 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:46,360 toxic waste dump. And you're going to know that because I've worked with your hippocampus. 353 00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:51,360 But if I just said to you, Hey, uh, Homebush was a toxic waste dump because I'm, I'm, I 354 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:54,360 didn't give you all the context and you weren't really paying attention to the context. 355 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:58,360 You're not going to remember it, but now you will. And that's the way our memory works. 356 00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:07,360 If we can, uh, fire up context, yeah. And then attach new information, then you're going 357 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:12,360 to have a strong memory because all memory is new information attached to old information. 358 00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:23,360 Now, also, and we've spoken about this previously is memory is associated with emotion. 359 00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:31,360 Yes. So I can recall where I was during the 2000 Olympics and what I was doing and, uh, 360 00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:37,360 the, um, you know, death of Princess Diana, for example, and where you were at the time. 361 00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:43,360 That's right. Uh, twin towers. Yeah. When they came 9 11. That's right. And you know, 362 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:50,360 very strong emotional attachment to that date and that event because of the emotion. Is 363 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:57,360 it true that memory can then become distorted? It's not accurate. Okay. That's actually two 364 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:02,360 things. So the first thing that emotions and memory glue. Yeah. So when there's a large 365 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:07,360 emotion in an event, you remember it. The reason why we do that is because our memories 366 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:13,360 evolve to, um, remember danger. Yeah. So we needed to remember things that were dangerous 367 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:18,360 for us. And that's why when there's a larger emotional content of a memory, it sticks in 368 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,360 your memory. It's like glue, uh, so that you can remember that event so that you don't 369 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,360 repeat it, that mistaken past or whatever. Okay. So, um, the things that we remember 370 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,360 the most of things that have a large emotional content and that's for our survival. 371 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:39,360 Now the thing about our memory and I at first didn't like learning this and now I kind of 372 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:47,360 do like knowing this. Um, every time we recall a memory, we are rewriting that memory. I 373 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:52,360 say slightly adjusting it, slightly adjusting it. So imagine that your, your memory is a 374 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:58,360 big library. Okay. So I asked you to recall a memory. You'll go into your library. You'll 375 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:04,360 take out that book, that memory, you'll open it up and then you'll start recalling that 376 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:10,360 memory. But in the act of recalling that memory, you are rewriting that memory. And so there's 377 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:16,360 a, there's a study that I've read about. So imagine this, there's a study that I think 378 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,360 a professor, professor at a university, I should know his name. I will find it and try 379 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,360 and put it into the show notes if we can. So he, every time there's a big event, he 380 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:31,360 will get a big group of people to come in and shortly after the event, they will write 381 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,360 down in their own handwriting, their experience of the event. So for example, when 9-11 happened, 382 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:42,360 I think that he also did it when Princess Diana died. So they had to come in and on 383 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,360 a piece of paper in their own handwriting, they had to write their experience of what 384 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,360 happened on the day, where they were, who they were with, how they felt, all of that 385 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:55,360 sort of stuff. And then a couple of years later, they got them to come back. I think 386 00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:00,360 it was a couple of years later, maybe it was even less time. And he said, okay, write down 387 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,360 your recollection of that day, what happened, where you were. So do the same thing again 388 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:10,360 two years later or however long later. Then he would give them the original piece of paper 389 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:16,360 in their own handwriting with their signature on it and say, now compare the two. And it 390 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,360 was hilarious that the people would be reading the second piece of paper, the paper that 391 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,360 they just wrote on that day, and then looking at the original piece of paper that they wrote 392 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:29,360 two years ago going, hold on, that's my handwriting. But no, no, that's not what happened. No, 393 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:35,360 no, I was with this person. No, no, no, this is what was happening. So in the two years 394 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:40,360 between the recording on a piece of paper in their handwriting, what happened, their 395 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:45,360 memories had been completely rewritten. Some people were in different locations. Some people 396 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:50,360 were with different people. And so what this study has shown us that every single time 397 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:56,360 we recall a memory, we are rewriting the memory. So your memories, I'm sorry, are not accurate. 398 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:01,360 So that would be why accident investigation or police or whatever get you straight away 399 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:06,360 by yourself. As soon as you can. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when there's an accident, the police 400 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:11,360 need to get your statements straight away because they know that over time your story 401 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:18,360 is going to be creative and rewritten and you are very, very suggestible. So yeah, our 402 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:24,360 memories are not accurate and they're not infallible. In fact, in fact, you can rewrite 403 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:33,360 them. So now this is the good news. Let's just say that you've had trauma in your life. 404 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,860 You can go back and rewrite it. You can rewrite yourself instead of being a victim. You can 405 00:32:38,860 --> 00:32:43,660 be the hero. Yeah. The perspective completely changes. Yeah. Which means you do not have 406 00:32:43,660 --> 00:32:50,320 to walk forward with that negative, emotionally damaging, debilitating memory. You can walk 407 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:55,160 forward a new person. You can hold your head up high and say, this is what I learned from 408 00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:01,080 that experience. And you can even change it. Yeah. And convince yourself that it was different 409 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,360 to what happened. And in fact, that is what a lot of people do to survive trauma in the 410 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,600 first place. They suppress memories, which isn't necessarily a good thing. They suppress 411 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:15,400 memories and rewrite it so that it's not as hard to take. Yeah. And so the memory is not 412 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,880 accurate. I hate to tell people, but at the same time, there is maybe some power there 413 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:26,160 that you can rewrite the history of your life. Absolutely. Don't lie. No, that's right. No, 414 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:31,360 yeah. Well, thank you so much for that. So this is like an interview with you, Guy. It 415 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:37,600 is a different sort of podcast. I didn't bring Bollinger, I'm sorry. No. Well, Bollinger, 416 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,080 where are you? We called out to you in the first podcast. We're still waiting. We've 417 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:48,880 had a guest turn up with Bollinger and we will be publishing his podcast soon. But yeah, 418 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:54,720 Bollinger. All I've got is water, I'm sorry. Yeah. Bose, from the previous podcast, maybe 419 00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:00,560 Bose might want to reach out. That's right. They haven't yet. No, no, no, no. More dogs. 420 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,360 The world would be a better place with more dogs. Absolutely. Yes. That's on our merch. 421 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,920 The merch that you wonderfully came up with, the t-shirts and caps, if you can find them 422 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:16,160 on our website. Captainandtheclown.com. W-W-W-Captainandtheclown.com. Yes. Yeah. So that was a fun podcast. I enjoyed 423 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,640 telling you about that sort of stuff. That's where I first got into professional development 424 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,480 training when I started teaching people about memory and then went to time management, then 425 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,960 leadership and all the other things that I taught. Wow. A long time ago and look where 426 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,400 you are now. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Sitting in a studio talking about memory. That's it. 427 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,760 And I think what I love about learning memory first, all of those years ago, that it underpins 428 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:43,280 everything I do. And my job is to put memories into people's heads, which is learning. And 429 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,880 so I love the fact that I learnt that early on in my career. Fantastic. Thanks, Scott. 430 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:53,200 Pleasure. Good to see you again, Michelle. Lovely to see you too. Cheers. Bye. Bye. Well, 431 00:34:53,200 --> 00:35:01,080 that was fun. That was fun. You're such a clown. The clown. Lady captain. And who's 432 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:27,880 going to listen to this? Maybe I'm not. Thanks, mom.