Selfie to Succeed Humans First. A community of curious, free and compassionate humans
finding gratitude and success in the small things, attracting blessings and rekindling
with the chaos we inevitably have to go through in life, regardless of age, sex, status, or
culture. Our vision is to create a place where we experience life and share insights through
other humans' eyes as fortunately and unfortunately we will only have a chance to experience one at
a time. So without any further ado. Yeah, it feels like I think there's something that I
constantly feel is a message to me since the time I went to a healing retreat, you know.
And so once I came out of the retreat, I realized that there's something that I'm not very
comfortable with doing, which is to just surrender. Like I'm not great at surrendering. I like to have
a sense of control and knowing where things are going, knowing that I am somehow driving.
But then, you know, I think with that experience, what I learned was you can do all those things and
then you should let the rest be free format. Like do your part and then surrender. And I think
that because I don't do that, I tend to bring other emotions like overthinking and worry
and stuff like that. So I was just thinking, I guess it is my next chapter, you know, where I need
to learn to do my part and then to trust that the universe has my back. Right. So it just, yeah.
So then I feel like it also liberates you, it lightens you and your energies are in action and
thinking, but not so much in the holding onto it so tightly that it kind of defeats why you're even
doing it in the first place. Yeah. Cause it's now it becomes like desperation to make it happen.
It does. Yeah. Yeah. Or even like, you know, a kind of heaviness because you're just constantly
now bothered about trying to play so many iterations out in your head. And then in the end,
it just, it probably works out in a different way or a much better way that you couldn't even
think of. Usually does. So usually does. Right. So then I think that was my lesson
through the dujit because I sat with ayahuasca, you know, I don't know if I'm sure you're doing
ayahuasca. How was the whole experience? Yes. Cause it's something that's so much to do this.
Like I really want to experience that part of spirituality. So that would be very interesting
to hear about. It sounds like it was a trip. It was. And you know, I think, you know, an experience
like that, I think made me think that, I think what, whatever you're like testing for will call
you at the times that you're supposed to, because to tell you the truth, Susan, like six months prior
to that, cause I had to book, I had to sign up for the retreat and book everything about six months
before. And it was like just when COVID, like all the COVID, you know, restrictions were being
lifted off slowly. Like, no, they were just being lifted off. So, like, I think that was
like, you were committing to the retreat, but they couldn't open up because this happened in Bali
and they couldn't open it up for six months at the airports were shut and all of that. So I signed
up six months before and I became very close to the couple that was organizing the retreat, like
we'd become great friends. And they were telling me, you know, that, oh, so you're, this is going to
be a fantastic experience. And, and I just asked a lot of questions and I assumed that, okay, so I'm
going to be doing like some emotional mapping, some release meditation, like a hot and cold water
plunge and yoga. And, and, you know, all of those things. So I was just like, okay, digesting that
this is what's going to happen. And then they said, Oh, it's all going to be prepping you to sit with
my waska. And I was like, Oh, what is that? You know, that's what I said, because I'm like, what
is that? And then they had a laugh because they just like burst out laughing and they were like,
Oh my God, like you are in for a life-changing experience. But the thing was, I actually did
not understand the magnanimity of it at all, because it's so bizarre that until that day,
I have literally zero clue of plant medicine, like zero. Wow. It's like I've lived in a world where
this doesn't exist. Like, I don't know what it is. I don't know what it like, you know, I even,
I would have even heard things like, okay, people do like LSE or ecstasy or things like that. But
that's like a drug conversation. You know, like I don't actually, it's different and it's a pill.
And you know, when people do it and recreationally and all of that, but then I suddenly just got
exposed to a world. And then I remember like, because he said all those things, I went to
Google it after, and I couldn't even spell it right. Cause it's not like it's pronounced.
Right. So I'm like, there's so hard. I was like, what is, what did they talk about? So I
texted her again. I was like, what are we sitting with? And then she said like, you know, since you
don't know, and you are just discovering it, I would recommend don't read, don't go too crazy
about it. Just trust the process. And it was very difficult. Like I decided to try to do that. But
for the six months, I kept wanting to, you know, find out more, read more. And I tried to tell
myself not to, it's a long time to be like, okay, this is what I'm going to do. And then I noticed
that I started to share it with a few people here and there. Like when there were moments that was
getting closer and I was a bit nervous, I would just randomly tell people. And the funny thing
was the few people that I chose to share it with, they were, they'd either done it or they were
insanely pumped that I'm going to do. And they were like, why didn't you tell me before I would
have come with you? And I was like, okay, why, why are you so excited? So I tried to like gather
the feelings without reading. And then I went there and we did like five days. It was five days of,
you know, eating plant-based food, a hot cold water plungers, prayers every day, a lot of
release. Like we're doing a lot of this emotional release, which was quite scary as well, because
one, you were feeling light, but you were sitting in a room, which was like, you know, it's
vulnerable, religiously primed. Like you were, you know, praying and there was all this like,
I don't know, tobacco and blah, blah, blah and all that. But then you're, you know, also closing
your eyes and listening to other people screaming or crying or shouting. And I got like, I got scared.
And then it took me a while to realize that this collective healing is also special. Like there's
something so magical about it. And then you, you went through the five days of release and prep and
foundationally laying it right to sit on the sixth night, you know, and it was like a 10 hour process
and the shaman had come from like, I think Peru or somewhere or Brazil, the Amazon or somewhere
like that. He brought his own concoction. Yeah. He's like his tools. Yeah. And then he explained,
you know, that you come into the session and you come with very clear intentions, but zero
expectations. So your intentions should be so well laid out in your mind that if the universe or if
the medicine is going to answer you, they know what exactly how to answer you, but have zero
expectations. If you get no answers, then you know what? It's not your time or the answers will be
symbolic and you write it down and you will see them later. So it's like, okay, great. But as it
got closer that night, oh my God, I was like really pooping bricks. Like I was so nervous.
And then we all had to like dress real light and wear like these, you know, lighter robes, go in
there. The room was like pitch dark. They had like a few candles. He was singing the whole time. And
then it was like tea. It was like having tea and you drank like a shot of the tea. And then,
I mean, I, I definitely know that for like a few years, I would never do it again. Because the first
part, I keep saying half, I really don't know the sense of time, but we sat for like about 10 hours.
But the first part, you know, was like, I think it to me, it felt like it reached a place where I
decided that I was going to die. Like, I'm like, that's it, you know, it's over. And it was more
because it was like from a, it was more a mental, like mental kind of like a mindfuck, I think.
Because it just, I just kept seeing things. And not a lot of it made sense, but a lot of it was
kind of scary. Like it was just, you know, kind of like trying to take over me in some way. And I
think the person in me, the natural instinct in me to control stuff and to like, you know, keep things
like in somehow, like, I know what's going to happen. I, that person was trying to control
these visions and the pain. And so I was lying down that I remember, I like, I didn't open my
eyes, but I knew like tears were coming out. Cause I think I was just like, help me like, Lord,
this somebody help me. And it wouldn't stop if you lie down, you sit up, you turn around, whatever,
it just wouldn't stop. So I remember this moment where I think it was almost like me seeing me.
And then I was just like, that's it, let go, you know, just that's it. It's if this is how it's
supposed to be, this is how it's supposed to be, let it go. And I made that decision. And for some
reason I decided that I'm going to get up and they'd kept like a bucket next to us and a bottle of
water. They said, you're two friends for tonight or the bucket and the water, because you will be
purging and then you would want to hydrate. So I took the bucket and I just decided I'm going to
go to the loop because we were allowed to go to the loop that was like two seconds away.
I literally like get up and in a split second, I think like I turned into that, you know, the
character from the grudge where your whole body is like, it felt so weird. The way my body switched
was so weird. And then I threw up like a waterfall, Susan. It was like no gagging, no effort, no
struggle. It was just, you know, like it's like a gateway had opened and it was just flowing,
slow, slow, slow, slow, slow. Finally, it's just like whenever it wraps up, I sit down and I lie
down. And then suddenly the visions, they just changed. Like I'm in some freaking unicorn galaxy
met, you know, at the ultimate land of fairies roaming in like romance of baddie fields. It was
just unreal. I think so. And it was just unbelievably magical that I even remember a moment when I was
looking at the visions and going, wow, like, what is this? What is this? And I started to have like,
you know, a few people show up or things show up that I kind of recognize. And I was like,
what are you doing here? And stuff like that. And then finally, when it started to wear off,
you know, it was quite interesting because there was music playing and I opened my eyes and
right above the shaman was like this window. And I felt like the first thing I saw from the window
was the vision I just had, which was like a purpley sky with like a ton of stars that were just like
sparking and rotating. And I was a bit confused, you know, that am I still sitting with it or is
that real? And then, you know, that was the vibe that it carried. And then I started to dance. Like,
you know, I was just dancing alone, dancing on my own. I felt the need to like sort of, you know,
take off some of my, you know, wear some like, I don't want to be tight. I just want to be free.
And when we when we finished and we all had to sit by the fire, just as a collective sense of
community, nobody talked, you know, most people were just like silent except for the shaman.
And then I went to the room and I wrote, I wrote a lot because I wanted to capture everything I saw.
And I didn't a lot of it didn't make sense. So I was like probably later down the line in life,
I'll figure it out. But the shaman was saying, you know, supposedly zero to seven years is when
the things you see, they start to manifest. So you it's good to write down because then later on,
when you see that pattern or you see that color or you see that, you know, symbol, you know what it
means. And you know that, oh, this is why I saw it. But what I thought from immediate learning,
you know, was that only when I like I did all the priming, I did all the prayer work,
I reached the basics. I came, I sat. But only when I let go, I saw light. Yes. Yes. You know,
so I just came up with this theoretical or like how you say symbolic way of thinking that I think
I do my part, but I hold on too much. And I need to learn to surrender. I need to learn to trust
that I've done my best and what is meant for me will not miss me or what is meant for me is going
to be a million shades better than what I imagine. And I never, you never thought like that. I've
never thought like that. So I just thought I know, because I couldn't treat that experience as
anything else, because the moment I let go was literally having a conversation with me saying,
if this is the place that I have to call it a rap, then this is what it is. You know, let it be.
That's it. Because that's how painful it got. So I just like, fuck, I need to wrap this up right
now. I can't anymore. And then it just turns into like, hey, you showed up and I'm going to show up
a million shades cooler. And that's how this experience was, you know, so that's where this
whole surrender thing, this is really the backstory. And I've been practicing or literally flexing that
muscle for a whole year now where I catch myself all the time with that struggle, you know,
Yeah, is that really, I can't believe it. It feels so good as well. It feels so good. It really does.
It's a weight. Yeah, absolutely. It's a weight lifted off. You said it. Yeah, it's just it's so light
lightening of generally how you navigate life. So definitely, you know, I want to be more of that.
I want to practice more of that. And all right. I love that. I love that. Because even like the
the vision itself, how it moved from like this obscure place to then this love you, W like,
yes, literally just love you land like it's so it was I like that word. It was like lovey land,
you know, that's really what it was like. It was a bit and it was unreal, like the extremities of
both was just unreal. Like I didn't know that kind of magic can exist. And the other way I didn't
know that kind of fear can exist. You know, both were like just elevated, very elevated. And I
thought that's what it meant. The magic is on the other side of surrendering. Always, always.
And it's so interesting that we started with with our story because it connects so much as well to
what we like what we've been talking about and see even just the the intention behind the podcast is
to highlight how we all have that pain and pleasure. It's the balance of life and it's part of
ourselves. And we just need to also almost let go and open those doors to see it both in order to
understand how to then move forward. So it was a great way to start. I was like, no, this is too good.
Thank you so much. Honestly, I'm so I'm so grateful for the fact that we're even here
after very eventful trials. We both know.
But I think today was the day it was meant to be today. Like literally we've had zero struggles
and it's just been so smooth. So it was meant to be today.
It is. And I guess I'm not going to give an introduction because I'll leave you to explain
your story because honestly, I'm so excited to hear what led to the version of of you
of yourself that I got to me because it's a very nice person. And I'm so excited to just
having had the chance to that our lives crossed like we literally live on two opposite side of
the world. But somehow we were able to find each other. So very, very grateful. And again,
I don't want to take anything away from you. So I'll have to say is for today, again, we can
I'll probably cut this part out because it's irrelevant. It's just going through a couple
of questions, but we can follow the conversation. Yeah. Yeah. I just because it's something that I
it's something that I said yesterday as well while I was recording. Yeah. It's like a gesture on
anything like a cue that we can give each other if we want to like either like add something or
probe into a little bit more of what someone else is saying. What can we what can we do?
Can we do? What would I wish maybe we should be like, oh, but it shouldn't be visible, right?
It should be like, yeah, it's like something is like maybe it should be like that.
It's like a little longer than normal. Be like, yeah, yeah, no, it's like a normal thing. Just
it's such a body. It's just a bodily behavior, but like, can we go a little further on that one?
And I just find that it just helps because especially with the fact that we don't want to
like, like, yeah, I guess here we are. And well, I wanted to like first thing, like get to almost
like grow with you, you know, grow with your story. So like starting from like childhood to like
instead of it more in terms of how was your childhood and the dynamics that you had in your
in your family. Yes. How is that for you? OK, I think first, I do want to say thank you so much,
Susan, for having me on this podcast. I'm so excited to be one of your early, early guests,
if I may say. And I'm also really glad that our paths cross because I think it crossed
for different circumstances. But it's just been, you know, exciting to see how our lives are kind
of on a similar wavelength to speak. And so I'm looking forward to this conversation. I'm quite
excited to be on this this hot seat to tell you, to go back to your question, to tell you a little
bit on how how was my childhood? I think, you know, I'm ethnically Indian. I was born in the
south of India in a place called Chennai. And my parents were living in the Middle East in a in a
country called Oman in a city called Muscat. And so my mom literally just came back to have me
in Chennai and then she went back to Muscat. So for me, I do think that
this country or the city Muscat just feels like home. You know, I grew up there. My most formative
years were in the city. And honestly, the city feels like straight out of a famous five or a
secret seven because it's just so wrapped up in nature. There's like mountains and a lot of green
and beaches. And my dad was working in a cement company. You know, he's a chemical engineer. He
was working for a cement company. So we were living in a community that was a bit far away
from the main city. So everyone who worked in the company lived within that, you know, like a compound
to say. And so we had friends, you know, friends from everywhere in the world. So it was like growing
up with a very diverse bunch of people not recognizing maybe that you're actually Indian
or you're this or that because it was just fun to be kind of, you know, spending your evenings together
with people from different parts of the world. And you just you just enjoyed the power in that
diversity. It was just fun to grow up like that. And I think from a family point of view, you know,
my parents and my youngest sister and me, so it's just always the four of us. And I think my parents,
you know, were very conscious of giving my sister and me a full shot at life, like definitely
emphasizing largely on education, getting both of us to study and to be able to
kind of, I think, build a foundation that my dad would say things like, you know, education is the
only investment that no one can take away from you. So I think that was something that was very
deep rooted in them. And they wanted to create that foundational way of both of us being brought up.
So we could be whatever we wanted in this world. And, you know, little things like, you know, they
were very particular that every meal was to be had together, we were not allowed to eat in our own
rooms, or, you know, just being silo watching TV, like we have to be at the table, we have to eat
together. And it was something that I think more than my mom, my dad was very particular. So I feel
like growing up, we were very tight knit. We did a lot of things together, like we were very
outdoorsy. My parents are big on traveling. So we would travel to different places. You know, they
kind of made sure like my sister, I was a trained South Indian classical singer, my sister was great
at the piano, we would go ice skating, we would play squash, like, kind of like built us to be
all rounded and find things that allowed us to be, you know, like more rich than just a cat and a
cat. But yeah, my mother was lucky. She decided to start a school since she had something going on
I feel a couple of things, I think as a family to have had parents who were very particular
about us bonding together and also developing us in a spectrum of things and not just focusing
on one aspect of life was a big bonus and a very special but also at the same time,
I think that, you know, perhaps being brought up in a very diverse background allowed us
to celebrate who we were as opposed to, you know, kind of, you're, when you're in the
very homogeneous community, you probably don't understand how to celebrate your differences.
So there was a lot of, yeah, you just blend in and you fit in and here there was, you
know, things that people noticed about you that were special that you didn't, you know,
actually might have never recognized are special and you do the same thing with others. So
I think that was also a very nice with the way we were, with the way we got to be brought
up. And finally, I think the place, you know, being brought up in a city that was, I would
say, not very, like glamorous and not loud and not very, you know, like fast paced. I
think we were able to be children, like, just live like children should for a very long
time. Like it was more about, you know, camping outside and like learning to make your own
fire and like we all like get together in some place and then we'd hike and then we'd
just like make a route and then call it home and everyone, someone would bring like sheets,
someone would bring food and then someone would bring like stuff to play. And it was
just being creative like that. And then, you know, having a group of us just hang out and
it really does feel now when I look back, like as if I was reading, it was straight
out of a famous five or Nancy Drew or one of those like great storylines that we grew
up reading. So I think these things I only reflect on now. I look back and I think about
them. And I also think a very large part of my childhood though was, you know, my father
on my father's side, there was a very, very huge influence of being patriarchal, like
very completely the opposite of how my mother's side was. And they all come from the same
time. So I don't know how that happened. But on my father's side, they're a very big
family. My dad has seven siblings and out of all the siblings, my parents were the only
ones to have two daughters and everyone else had two sons or a daughter and a son, but
there was always a boy in the mix. And my parents had no sons. And so they kind of even
though we were not living in India, like they somehow did get bullied and they got bullied
constantly for you know, it was almost like reminding them all the time that, you know,
you don't you're sort of incomplete as a family because you don't have a boy or what are your
daughters going to do or like, why are you educating them so much because no one's going
to want to marry them. Or now she has so much of an opinion, which which man is going to
want to tolerate that and you know, things like that. And so I grew up watching that
a lot in my house and my mom is is a good 10 years younger to my dad. And so I think
how she coped with it was also very different from how my dad coped with it. So I, I think,
you know, with all the other really nice things that I feel were special about growing up,
I also inculcated a huge amount of anger. I and I and I think, you know, just listening
and watching and seeing my parents feel incomplete in some sort or fighting this, you know, this
kind of, you know, defeated sort of, yeah, you're just being told all the time, but then
you're still navigating life, you're still being progressive, you're still educating
your kids, you're doing things that are not conventional to the work or the time that
or the societal construct that they are being exposed to every day. They still went ahead
and did the thing. So I think that that tension, that worry, I experienced it and I saw particularly
my mom be very, very emotionally, like kind of on a like distraught with like having to
hear a lot of these things. And some of them were really painful. You know, I think like
when my sister was born, my mom was, you know, kind of asked to, you know, actually think
about like leaving my dad because somehow she was made to feel that she carried the
entire responsibility of having created another girl in the house. And so people were kind
of trying to tell her that, you know, you, you're just not good enough. And, you know,
you sort of let my son down and things like that. And I think hearing those things, I
developed anger as a huge like fuel to my fire and also a very big, I think, emotion
because I didn't know maybe how to release. I just didn't know where to send it and what
to do with the feelings that I am watching and experiencing. So this is a huge part of
my childhood and just, you know, knowing there was a parallel track that I would watch all
the time. And I think I became a feminist from a very young age that I wanted an equal
space in the world. I wanted an equal shot at life. I wanted to tell people who somehow
ever thought that, you know, women don't get, get to live life and aspire to get to live
life the way anyone else can. It's just needs to be, needs to be told that we're all human
first. And I think my way of navigating that was not a pleasant one. It was quite an aggressive
one because I just was carrying so much of this, you know, pent up anger inside of me.
So yeah, that's, that's how I would define my childhood, you know.
Thank you so much for sharing that honestly. Because I can see all of that how it then
comes off in the person that you are right now, like this strong woman that you've worked
so hard on yourself and you're still working on yourself and keep on pushing and pushing.
And I found beautiful the fact that you were allowed to discover yourself, like to try
different things and just triumph, trial and fail. So that is also something that I feel
like not a lot of people are now having the chance to experience, which limits what they
think that they can be or what they actually then become. So it's beautiful that you've
read that chance to, you know, just try different things and see what sticks, you know. But
also I can see how it built it, how you became so strong because of the fact of obviously
going through almost having to prove yourself. Because we already carry this weight as a
woman. Or you're the weaker gender or whatever. I'm not going to come here and list all of
them because we all know. To be fair, but just seeing how...
It's so sad when we say we all know, like we all know, but we all do know it. It is
the truth, isn't it? Yes.
There's this beautiful quote that Lauren Hill says, fantasy is what we want, but reality
is what we need. It's reality. But I can definitely see how then someone would advocate so much
for women as you do, because obviously you felt the actual stigma, the weight, not just
on yourself, but also you saw your mom and your parents going through that as well. So
obviously it's great that you've turned it into your strength and you're now wanting
to provide that for others as well. So thank you so much. We need more of you.
Thank you.
Definitely. Especially having a child like that, growing up then into adulthood, how
was that switch, that change or now, okay, now you are a woman, you know, like you're
the big W. How is that for you?
Big W, I like that. I think when I look back, I definitely think that from childhood to
moving into the teenage years, I think that's probably when I think I felt a lot of inner
struggle with who I was becoming. I do think that I got labeled a lot as being angry. And
until then, even though I knew I was carrying a lot of anger, I was still a kid. So it
was just, it was like comments that didn't bother me or maybe I didn't understand them.
But as a teenager to be constantly told that, oh, you're being angry or you're going to
get angry now, or sometimes reminded that this kind of anger is not good for a girl.
Like it's just not good to be this angry. And so I think I associated that emotion to
be a not nice emotion. And I also felt within myself that I kind of don't like that I have
this side to me, but I really didn't know what to do about it. So I think I went through
a teenage phase where I rebelled a lot because it was just a conflict on the inside and outside
that I felt the anger was very much justified as a great protection or defense mechanism.
But at the same time, it didn't look good on a girl. So I think that the conflict on
the inside made me rebel a lot. And I also think that during that phase, I noticed with
things like bodily changes, for example, like if you're getting your period and then in
my home, for example, my dad explained to me all about it, I had a conversation with
my father instead of my mom. And I found that it was just great that this is how I got to
understand the anatomy or how we work or how our bodies are and what this means. But then
I would go back to like say India for a vacation, like with my parents and my sister. And the
same parenting would switch to like suppose we're staying at my dad's parents house, and
there is some sort of a religious ceremony or there is we have to go to the temple or
something. Then, you know, when you have your period, you're not supposed to go to the temple.
You're not supposed to pray is what we were taught. Yeah, somehow we were made to understand
that it is not auspicious. Like it is not your body is going through something which
is, you know, not clean. And so, you know, there was this narrative that you don't you
don't go to a pious place, you don't actually pray or you don't actually go to a place of
worship. And so I rebelled more because I felt that my the same parenting in my house,
I didn't have any friends whose dads were talking to their daughters about what it meant
to walk into a menstrual cycle or like just getting into this space of adulthood. And
at the same time, my same parents would completely switch how they behave where they would be
like, nobody needs to know that you have your period. There is a function at the temple.
Just pretend like you're sleeping. Just stay at home. You know, so I wasn't allowed to
tell anyone that I am having my period. I wouldn't be able to say that I'm, you know,
feeling uncomfortable or any of that. Because if I did, then it's just that household would
make a big deal. And then, you know, I wouldn't be allowed to like, say, go to the temple
and pray. And I would be like, kind of having to probably put on practices that, you know,
I wouldn't understand that, you know, that that type of child that was being. And so
to keep it all low, my parents were just like, hi, you know, just we don't want to tell anybody
anything. I just need you to pretend like you're sleeping. I need you to pretend like
you can't make it to that event because you're tired or things like that, you know. And I
think I would basically convert those moments into very rebellious conversations, because
I would ask my parents questions like, you know, if God created all of us and we all
go to God for showing us the way, showing us the light for being in gratitude, then
why would that God deny someone who is capable of creating life that this whole cycle is
indicative that I'm preparing my body for a new, a new home to be able to create life.
And so my parents would just feel like, what have we done? You know, why have we educated
her like this? This is the kind of questions. And then, you know, they think that fear that
my dad's family would inculcate, why are you educating them so much? They're going to have
too much of an opinion. I think I would see those traces of worry in my parents when I
was being very rebellious during the teenage years, because I just questioned everything.
And I felt that they were not prepared to answer them. You know, they didn't want to
because they were afraid that I was going to make noise or I was going to disrupt, you
know, the peace or, you know, and they were trying to do a delicate balance, which I couldn't
understand. Like, for example, you know, in our community, when a girl gets a period,
there's a celebration, you know, you call everybody together and you say, and my parents
didn't want to do that because they were like, nobody needs to know like, this is your journey,
your body, your and I loved that, you know, and I look back, I think that was so progressive
of them. But then when they're back in that societal construct, they are somehow trying
to they're trying to navigate it in ways that are not authentic. And I now have the maturity
to understand that, you know, it was difficult for them. They did the best that they could.
But I was making it very difficult for them because I couldn't understand. So I would
just constantly ask these questions, you know, and I think that the teenage years for me
was a lot of that, like wanting opportunity, wanting to be able to do things that perhaps
you say, you know, you're not that that might physically hurt you or like I was very big
on sport. And, you know, it would be like, you don't want to have scars or you don't
want to get hurt. And I would still be like, I don't understand, like, why does that matter?
Or academically, you know, I would be like, really fierce because I was always like, I
was always stopping in school. But I would compete with like a lot of these friends of
mine were boys and I would get really aggressive and then my parents would be a bit worried
that, you know, you you don't have to express like that. You don't have to be like that.
And so I think that was a lot of my teenage life where I was questioning things. I was
wondering where did they come from? Where do these beliefs come from? Why have, you
know, we agreed to follow some of this? And I think that that that, you know, if you ask
my parents today, they will say that she was a rebellious kid because I think they didn't
know how to term it. I remember that being a very a little bit difficult on them and
difficult on me as well. And having a lot of arguments and a lot of like difference
of opinion. And I think in the in the end, the thing I used to notice, though, is that
like between my parents, my mom would have a way of handling it, but she would just be
like, you know, what have I done to have to deal with all this?
Oh, my God. Again, another one.
My father, my dad, though, you know, he was very I think a lot of the curiosity and this,
you know, wanting to work on myself. I think a lot of that, I also think genetically or
watching him is how I probably got influenced because he would say these things that were
kind of contradictory and we would get into an argument, but then he would sleep over
it, you know, and the next day or two days later, he would come back and and have a conversation
when he's trying to meet me halfway or try to understand. And I think that's because
he he liked questioning himself. He liked thinking it through. And so I always felt
eventually, I would feel like I am being heard or we are in this conversation. But I don't
think I always felt that I could be me. That was for sure. I think with the teenagers,
I realized that, you know, there was a lot of awareness that who I was becoming was kind
of misfitting to what a good woman or a good woman in this world looks like. Yeah. And
I was not meeting those standards. So I think that's when those seeds started to get planted
of not feeling good enough, being rebellious, you know, maybe wanting to wanting to be grateful
to people who appreciated me for being the things that I was. So I think it just it became
like, you know, there were these new character traits that were coming into play because
just being me was not welcome. It was not enough. It was not enough and it was not well
received. So I did feel that. I think I started to feel that weight from that time onwards.
Yeah. And that is a there's a heavy there's a heavy bargain that teenage brings as well.
It's a delicate period that it's it links our childhood to our adulthood. But everyone
is trying to make us fit into something that we're not. Yeah. Because everyone is it makes
it easier for everyone else to just fit in and, you know, just go along with the play,
you know. But then here comes Switchy back to with all the questions, challenging every
study score. It's that speaks a lot of your character. And also, I guess that's the thing
that has got us to where we are in terms of the the wave of getting better. And like you
said, even for your father, always questioning and questioning and questioning. It's what
actually gets you to understand who you truly are, minus the societal adjective or labels
that we we have to attach to ourselves in order to show up in society. So that is a
well, that is a very interesting, interesting way. And how were you able to because obviously
this now grows into the thing that we were talking about in our previous conversation,
like the burnout and also how it went into the workplace. So how how did that grow and
how did that then crush down? Yes. I guess the blessing is so. No, you know, so very
interestingly, I would say that, you know, so anyways, being Indian, I have to I have
to tell you that there are only a few career choices back then when I was getting to go
to school or to university. You know, I either had the choice of being an engineer or a doctor
or a lawyer. And I think for me, they did introduce being a chartered accountant. They
said, you know, that was also an option for me. And otherwise, it just implied that I've
basically become a failure because I'm unable to take, you know, academically be able to
become anything like take myself through a journey where I can provide myself and I can
live a good life. And so I have to choose between these four different options or choose
to agree that I am a failure. And I generally have always been very competitive. So it was
impossible for me to be like, oh, I'm going to go choose option number five. No, but I
was also very no way, you know, and also to tell you that it was so deep rooted that failure
was just not an option for me. Like the way my parents were bringing us up, it was not
an option. But if I look back with this question, Susan, I also think that I probably added
on to what I was already brought up in the environment that I was because of the because
of the, you know, this constant reminder that my parents have two girl children. And, you
know, it's just the possibility of them being a burden and and what they're doing, what
my parents were doing with me is going to definitely backfire. I felt even more the
pressure that there's no way I can feel I absolutely have no room to fail. I am going
to have to carry the storage and make my parents effort. Yeah, because this is when their effort
and their fight makes sense. And so I think I carry that extra. So, you know, then it
helps that I am competitive, it helped that I was very analytical, I was really good at
math, really good at science, I was constantly like topping in school. So I kind of took
that and decided, you know, I'd like to be an engineer. And at that time around, like
getting into computer science was really almost like a trend, I would say, but I was really
good at programming and really good at like writing out puzzles and solving them. So I
just, I don't think I've had a deeper understanding of what is passion. I just was like, I'm fantastic
at this. It makes me so excited. Like when I'm, you know, cracking a piece of code, I
just feel like, wow, you know, I've just I've just discovered, I don't know, electricity
or something like that. So I just took the two and two together. And I'm like, you know
what, I'm going to do engineering. And, you know, in that time, like one of the, I mean,
it still is a fantastic school. But one of the greatest schools to get into engineering
in India is called the Indian Institute of Technology. And there are only five of the
schools and they're literally like an equivalent of getting into Harvard or MIT. It's just
like insane, an insane process to get in top of the top and really harsh, like really harsh
to get in. It's usually a fantastic experience once you're in, but the whole process of getting
in is just like layered and you know, people are preparing for it since their eighth grade
and you've got like so many layers of getting in. And then you've, you also find that like
there's about 200,000 applicants in a year and only 2000 people get in. So this obsession
with half having to get in sometimes people attempted for three years in a row, four years
in a row. It's just a very, there's a very rat racy and a very like, I don't know, very
cutthroaty vibe around it. But I somehow, you know, had one of the, I would say the
lamest stories to why I decided to get in. And it seems lame today, but then I just,
you me, it was one of the most pivotal godfathery moments when I'm like, I've got to do this.
There was, there's a cousin of mine, you know, on my dad's side, my dad's sister's son. And
just after I think the last person who got into the school, the next person who was actually
slotted in line to be capable of applying to the school was one of my cousins. And he
was, you know, everyone was raving about him. And people were like, cheering him on, like
he's gonna be the next guy in the family is going to make it and all the good stuff. And
then just around the entrance exams or something, something happened. I think he wasn't well
or something happened to him. He just couldn't, he just couldn't bring his best self. And
it didn't work out. And then my dad's dad, he was so disappointed. You know, his heart
was literally broken. And he was like, that's it. There's going to be no one else in our
family was going to, you know, ever be in contention. And but to be like 12 or 13. And
I remember it was summertime, we were on our summer break, and we were staying with my
dad's parents. And we were walking on the rooftop. And that's when he made this comment.
And I remember looking at him and thinking like, to him, like, I'm just invisible, you
know, it just doesn't matter what I do. He just he can't see me. And so I literally had
that seed planted that I am going to get into the school. And I'm going to show you. And
to be honest, I think that today he doesn't even know that, you know, he was really the
inspiration for me. And I was like, that's it. Like, this is the clarity. And this is
the direction I'm going to go in. And so I basically just, you know, went full all hands
on deck, I went fully preparing for it. And then I did get through. And once I did get
through, I remember telling myself, you know, that I'm just going to have fun now, because
that whole journey for those few years, like I stopped singing, I stopped playing sport,
I stopped, you know, doing any of the things that I loved, like, I just was kind of studying
all the time, because you had your daily school. And then there was a whole other process to
prepare for these engineering entrance exams. I was intense. I mean, not to brag, but to
like give you a little bit of perspective, like, it's the same school that Sundar Pichai
was the CEO of Google, like, that's where he went to do his engineering. So it's just,
it's just a lot. And as a kid, it's a lot of pressure to take on. And you know, I was
carrying this unnecessary burden that I can't fail because I need to show this granddad
of mine who I am and how dare he make a comment like that. And so I felt like I, the way I
had to live those few years in high school before I, you know, applied and got through
was kind of very, very intense and stressful. And so I decided that once we get like, I
got in, I'm just going to have the time of my life. Literally go back to, you know, being
a whole person that I liked. So I went into debating, into like jamming, into like, you
know, back into sport, like playing badminton. And I just kind of allowed myself to like
come back to life again. And I was also insanely proud, you know, that I was able to do this.
And post graduating, I got placed in this oil and gas company called Slumber Jam. And
I just worked with them. I've been working with them for about 15 years now. And it was
just fantastic, you know, because I think the dream was to go join a Fortune 500 company.
I had this insane craving from a very young age, I think, because of the way I was brought
up to travel the world, to live in different parts, to constantly like, I have this passion
to learn about other cultures, you know, I love food, I love understanding why we practice
what we practice. And I noticed as a person that, you know, I was without being aware,
I was very comfortable to take on things that I felt influenced me from other people's other
cultures, and to let go of things that I felt is not but I it wasn't awareness, I was just
somebody, you know, that's why we keep saying, Oh, I'm a global Indian, because I kept the
things I loved about being Indian, but I started to release the things that I felt they don't
make any sense. And they don't serve me in any way. But maybe I would have a, you know,
a really close Brazilian friend, and she shares some sort of a practice they have. And I'd
be like, you know what, I really like that. And I'm going to make it a part of who I am.
And working in this company allowed me to expand on that, you know, because I went and
lived in different countries, I made friends, really close friends from different parts
of the world. And I realized that, you know, we are culturally different, we have different
languages, we look different. But in the core, we're, we're all the same, you know, we're
all one of the same. And that I think that realization got me to be more excited with
living a more mobile life. And I married someone who was excited to be a part of that, you
know, was excited to allow the life to be that adventurous and to be like, okay, you
know, we're going to be flying here back and forth, we're going to be moving homes every
two to three years. And it made, you know, a situation that, for me, felt very natural
as a craving that I had, but wasn't conventional because all throughout that journey, as much
as I was enjoying the, the ability to play out what my, I don't know, dreams were, I
also constantly was reminded by society that included my parents, my closest friends, sometimes
my own sibling that I'm very lucky, you know, to be married to a person who understands
and allows me to be, you know, what I want. I, yeah. And you know, and at that time, there
was no conversations around why does anyone allow anyone, you know, it was very normal.
So I myself used to constantly being gratitude that I'm so glad that I'm being allowed to
get to play out the life I want or getting a full shot at life, or I'm, you know, really
grateful that my partner allows me to do these things, which according to society, I shouldn't
because you know, I would be told by my own male colleagues that your husband has a business
of his own, like, why are you even working? Wow. I would have to listen to that, you know.
Oh, my God. This is like I'm in the US and posted in Houston. These colleagues of mine
have lived everywhere in the world. They have families, they have kids. And yet, their,
you know, narrative in the head would still be that, yeah, I see you, I see you're clever,
I see your potential. But is it really worth pursuing your ambition at the extent of having,
you know, your, your partner have to do a lot of this extra work and you know, moving
and traveling and all of that. And so I think I did what I wanted to do. But I carry that
shame that guilt. You know, I had a lot of friends who were your constant, you're doing
amazing in your career, you're doing amazing as an individual, but you're always looking
for that, the one right, you're looking for the partner that is a universal, I think,
you know, Trump or your, you know, Joe Biden or you or me, we're all constantly, we're
looking for that one love that's just going to like change your life. And so a lot of
my friends would highlight, you know, that you have an amazing partner, why are you like
rocking the boat so much. And I used to think that, you know, all of these dialogues, they
basically make me recognize that I don't have the right to be unconventional or to be dreaming
fully. I don't because I'm still doing it. But I don't because if I was if I flipped
the narrative, which took me many years to understand, but if I flipped it, and I was
the man, I was the husband, and I was providing an opportunity to my family to live in France
and then in KL and then in Houston and then in Dubai and then in India. And I was elevating
in my career in a space and a speed that was commendable. And I am bringing in a you know,
a lifestyle that is just incredibly comfortable. I think people around me would be like, what
a fantastic guy, like what a great guy, what a great catch. What a sexy guy to be married
to. And this, when you flip it on to me was just like, why are you being like this? Why
are you being so ambitious? What are you running after? You have such a great husband, like,
why don't you just slow down? You know, why don't you focus on making babies? Like, I
have a lot of different things that were told to me and that was not very appreciative or
celebratory of how I was, you know, so I think, why else I did these things? Those years,
I started to carry more and more of these invisible bags of shame and guilt and missed
it and incomplete and less of a woman and angry and aggressive. And you know, also when
I got into leadership roles, it only added that, you know, anytime I'm building teams
and if I'm being aggressive and I'll be like, oh, so you're being so pushy or like, why
are you being so agenda driven? Like smile a little, like, just take it easy. And so
I had all of that as well, you know, where I was also expected. You know, I should just
chill and I don't need to like be so, you know, driven and running after whatever my
then vision was. And so all that together, I would say, you know, that from the teenage
years of seeing a lot of this patriarchal construct on my dad's side and then moving
on to coming into the working world and also like an engineering school to give you a little
bit of number perspective, like where about 500 kids in a class, like a class of like
whatever batch we get into. And only 80 of us are women. So the percentage is just ridiculous.
So it's like, you know, 500 or 80, 80 women out of 500 applicants, like 500 kids that
have gone in, you know. So again, you're in an environment where you're very conscious
of the fact that you are a woman. And, you know, sometimes like, you know, see examples
like we would have, you know, like, say our chemistry courses where you have lab work
and you know, you're paired up with somebody. And because of this, you know, very imbalanced
ratio and also that, you know, we do live in a world where that age, it's like also
a lot of hormones and all of that is running around. So, you know, I'd have a partner at
a lab and like, say you're like pipetting together and the person would think that you're
the love of their life because there's just one for every 10 boys. So it's just, you're
sort of like, you know, in this, not even 10, it's a completely wrong number, but one
for every 40 boys. And so, you know, you're sort of very aware of how much of a woman
you are, you know, and your, how objectifiable you are and how, you know, looking at you
and how you present yourself and how you, you know, carry yourself. These things are
so heightened because you're now in a very imbalanced environment. And then you walk
straight into oil and gas and, you know, I would do things like every new job, I would
have a polo neck and wear scarves for six months. Cover yourself. Cover myself. Literally
make only my job talk, you know, what I'm capable of doing. And once I've established
who I am, then I would let myself be what I want to be because I really did love to
dress up. And I love like after you get out of the phase of wearing coveralls all the
time, you're like, get the heels out, get the clothes on, get the colors out, you know,
to feel free. So I would repeat the same pattern with every new role that I'm just going to,
you know, not let my body be a hindrance in any way. And I want to just let the job do
the docking and then I will establish that this is who all of Suchi is. And I think it's
a sequence of all of these things that has actually compounded into me eventually getting
the gift of the burnout. Because when I look back, I know that, you know, it got fast tracked
in a year or a year and a half where I noticed a lot of the symptoms, but I didn't know to
connect the dots that this is actually a burnout. But you know, when I look back, I think it
starts like small seeds of healing. You know, you're carrying these burdens and perhaps
emotions that don't actually serve you, but they're small, you know, and then I think
as time progresses, because one, you're not looking inward, you're not healing them, you're
not reframing them, you're not doing anything to work with them. You just carry in the bags
are invisible, but they just get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And then I know
that there's also the real stuff that's happening with life, right? Like say, I did do things
like constantly pushing the envelope, constantly questioning what's convention and trying to
live out a life that wasn't. So I think those sort of actions are also heavy on you because
you are doing things that have not been done before, or you don't have enough examples
to see people who have done these things before. So you carry the fear of failure, you carry
the fear of being called out or the fear of, you know, goofing up and then somebody telling
you, I told you, I told you not to do that. And so those are the external pressures you
face. And then you work in a very, very like male dominated industry. You're constantly
worried about being told that, you know, you should have never been promoted to that space
because you know, it's just not, it's a man's job. And I was always aspiring for these like
cutting edge roles in technology. And you know, I always carried that fear that I don't
have many examples around me. So I don't want to ever be told that this was a bad move,
you know, we should have stuck with that guy or we should have brought back that person.
And I think all of those external and internal, you know, like dilemmas that you are just,
you're just navigating life and you let them be and they just grow into bigger and bigger
bubbles that at some point, you know, 10 years down the line or 12 years down the line, it
just manifests as a burnout because you are not ever looking within, you're just letting
them be and letting them grow. And you think that they're all a part of who you are, the
shame and the guilt and the, you know, feeling like an imposter or feeling like a perfectionist
or a fear of failure. You just assume that all of this is you, the misfitting, the not
good enough, the, you know, being a woman, but never being a good woman and things like
that. I think you don't address them the way they should be. You don't get to, I didn't
get to want to know me the way I should have. And eventually, you know, I kind of, the circumstances
when it got accelerated, I took a transfer from Houston to a city in India called Pune
and I was doing this project or this role where I was trying to build a new tech team
of excellence for advanced analytics. It was primarily like AI and machine learning.
Sounds like Kenny's to me, Bob.
So it's just, you know, a team where we are basically taking data and trying to solve
really interesting problems across the company. And so that way to build, you know, a team
that was a mixed set of expertise. So you had the really technical people, the business
people, and then the bridge, you know, people who could do the job in between, like your
coding, your testing and all of the good stuff. And so in that role, I had to do a lot of
people management work and a lot of recruitment and things like that. And I noticed that one,
I moved to a new location. I was doing a little bit of long distance with my husband because
he was in Dubai and I was in Pune. It was a two hour flight. So it was like he flies
in every weekend. It's a bit of a different orientation to how they normally operated.
And then all my friends, I left behind my friends, my sister in Houston, because I had
a really nice, a really great, like, I would say community, you know, like I had built
amazing friendships and my sister was like seven minutes away from me. And so it's quite
incredible and moved away from all of that. And then I immersed myself so much into work
so that I don't feel the emotions of being, you know, like, oh, I'm feeling like I don't
have a sense of belonging. I don't have people to hang out with. And those moments, I was
numbing the feelings, but I started to recognize that, you know, instead of being me, I started
to become recluse. Like, I didn't like the idea of being with people. I didn't want to
hang out with people. I wanted to have, you know, moments where just nobody can find me.
And then I started to feel very restless. Like, it wouldn't take much for me to want
to burst out at you saying, can't you just make that decision on your own? That's sort
of a response, you know. But I think it was just exhausting for me to even think and plan.
And I kind of noticed that I am behaving differently, but I didn't want to do anything about it
because again, I had that voice in my head that said, what are you exhausted from? What
are you feeling so restless about? Everything is great. What are you complaining about?
And I was at that space in my career where the next role was sort of getting me closer
to what my then five-year plan was. And so I'm like, I just have to go, you know, all
hands on deck with my head like deep down, just focus. And then I would find that, you
know, I sometimes would like cancel meetings on a Friday evening to sleep for like eight
hours and I would wake up on a Saturday morning still feeling like a truck has hit me and
I'm so exhausted. And I knew something was off. And then I noticed that, you know, caffeine
started to bother me. So I would drink a morning coffee or green tea. I would be in my office
and then I would get up to walk and I would feel dizzy. And I was like, okay, that's a
bit strange. And I just basically decided I'm going to stop having green tea or stop
having coffee. I didn't want to dive deeper into why it happened. And then it like went
on to further and further like details where it was like, I would wake up and I knew I
had to go to a recruitment fair today. So I would just like literally wear a bulletproof
jacket to be like, just face the day. So I would go put on this entire like, you know,
facade. And then when I'm on my way back home, I would just pass out in the, in the car because
I think it just, I had to bring this energy out that wasn't there. It wasn't there. And
eventually, you know, the body is so intelligent because I wasn't paying attention or addressing
these symptoms. I just started to fall physically ill. And I think it was one thing after another,
you know, was an eye infection or it was like some sort of like, I don't know, lead content
in my eye or there was a back pain that I suddenly like got from nowhere. Or I had like,
non stop colds that would keep coming. And I then used to think that I do have good immunity.
So I don't understand why I'm falling sick all the time. So I decided to go and get one
of those like full body well women, well woman checks. And, you know, I did all of the tests
and turns out there was nothing. I just had nothing to be worried about. And then I just
know I completely lost it. And I told the doctor that, you know, no, I'm not feeling
like myself. Something is off. You have to help me. And then she was brilliant. I mean,
lucky for me, she said, you know what, we need to do a hormone panel check. And so we
did a full blown hormone panel check and my cortisol levels were like insane. They just
didn't completely, I think, shocked her in terms of what the heck is this? This amount
of cortisol in the body means you're just really running on fight or fight. But she
did say that, you know, she wanted me to do a 24 hour check. And she was explaining that
sometimes you could have bodies where your levels of cortisol is already higher. So we
did a 24 hour check and then it was the way my cortisol levels were spiking. So that was
indicative that my body is just basically now on survival mode. And it's just acting
like it's being on flight or fight. And so simple decisions are starting to feel a lot.
Hanging out with people is feeling like a lot. And it kind of added, it made all the
dots connected for me. That's like caffeine, you know, but running with so much cortisol,
your body is just feeling like you're dizzy with caffeine because there is no need for
any more stimulus. It's already like running on a very jittery space. So then I just realized
that, oh my God, this answer is everything. So I think I stepped out of it. It's the eureka
moment, you know. And she said, she gave me a really good analogy. And she said, it's
like pulling a rubber band, you know, and you just keep pulling, pulling, pulling until
it snaps. And when it snaps, there's no elasticity anymore. And then she was saying, then you
reach chronically stressed or you're chronically fatigued where, you know, you need medication.
You will need external help to be able to take care because at that phase of being chronically
fatigued, I think, you know, even a decision of do you want coffee or tea or things like
that start to feel a lot. So you do need to bring that bit of balance with some sort of
medication that is available. And I'm sure you could do a lot of mindfulness, but it's
going to be a lot harder. It's going to be a lot deeper. And so that conversation, I
think, you know, and that analogy of the rubber band was really where I was like, I think
I fully woke up saying, wow, this is what has been happening to me. And I had this,
you know, thought process in my head that I have lived a life that's been quite, you
know, aggressive, ambitious, felt very alpha in my career and sort of being able to take
control of what I want in life. But I was thinking that if I am all those things, then
how come I couldn't show up for myself when I was showing a lot of those symptoms? I just,
you know, didn't want to honor any of it because I was like, what do I have to be tired? What
do I have to feel restless about? Why am I being angry right now? Like, I really need
to tone down this anger. And I just had more and more ways to tell me that whatever I am
feeling is invalid, is not right. And so I think that, you know, contrast of thinking
that you're this fierce, ambitious, confident, like, I don't know, almost like someone disruptive.
Yeah. And then exactly. And then here you are, literally so unbossing in your life because
you've gone and gotten burned out and you didn't even know to show up to say, hey, I'm
not, this is not normal. I'm not feeling okay. I've got to do something about it. So I think
that's when it kind of struck me a little bit that I don't really think I know myself
and I don't really think I have cared to connect with who I am. And I was, you know, thinking
that if this was my husband or my one of my closest friends or my sibling, I would have
seen their behavioral changes and I would have been like, are you okay? Like, is everything
okay? Like, should we go and get you some help? But I chose for me that, you know, it
was not necessary. I wasn't, I didn't need to go down that path. I needed to hustle harder
and work harder and, you know, just cut the crap. And I didn't share it much with people
because when I would share, people would say, you just need to sleep for a weekend or you
just need to go on a vacation. And so I felt even more that, you know what, like, none
of that is helping me. So now I don't, I don't know what to say to anyone. It's almost pointless.
Yeah, it's almost pointless, you know. And so then this, this analysis and this conversation
got me to eventually think that I have worked on a lot of projects and products that I've
tried to deliver at an organizational level. And I was like, I would like a small chapter
that's about me. And I wanted to take a sabbatical. I was very nervous about what that meant.
And you know, what message I was going to send at that point in my career, because it
was literally, you're at the pinnacle of being catapulted to the next level in the organization.
And I worked so hard to get there. And I was thinking again about a lot of those things.
And after a while, I think it just hit me that, you know what, if I did continue this
way and I did get chronically fatigued or I pass out at the office, you know, people
will care for me. There's a lot of love and admiration for who I was, but I'm going to
go to the hospital and life is going to continue. And you know, they'll find someone to do what
I was doing. And I think that's when I realized that in the grand scheme of things, when I
look back at life, it should feel like I lived a life that was full and beautiful and not,
but I lived a life that was driven with fear, fear of missing out all the time. And that's
when I went, decided that, you know, I've been in this organization for more than a
decade. It's been as long as my marriage and it's been a really influential part of
me becoming who I am. And so if they are not able to show up for me, then it was a beautiful
marriage. It gave me and I gave it a lot, but perhaps it's time for it to wrap up, you
know, and not all chapters have to be the whole book. Like sometimes, you know, you
have mutual respect and sometimes, you know, some characters in your life, they get to
be in a few chapters, but epic chapters and maybe the remaining chapters, you know, it
doesn't have to be. So I came from a place of love for me and I made up my mind that
if the, if the person I was going to speak to understands, then this is, this, this is
an epic marriage. If they don't understand, then they're not wanting to grow with me and
I'm going to make that decision. So lo behold, I go and have this conversation and, and my
then a boss who was, who I was reporting into, he just like turns around and he's like, you
know what, I, I've been through something similar and I took a personal development
leave and lucky for me, my wife was able to, you know, take on the family expenses and
she was, her job was bringing in everything we needed. And, and he shared a lot of like,
you know, nuances saying that he, it also allowed him to empathize what it meant to
be a domestic project manager because he had not really played that role before. And now
exactly. So it was just so much more rich in his case. And then he said he would recommend
every seven years that people switch off for a short time because you really get to like
build up on your creativity because you are running, running, running and suddenly you
stop and then you go and work and you get to like calm the noise and think about recalibrating
what it is that you want in your life. So it was such a free flowing conversation. But
if I look at the buildup before, didn't have that conversation, I was just, I was just
like, I know the realizing I just made up so many things in my head and it, it was only
when I came from a place of love for me, then it literally just was the most easiest and
the most beautiful conversations to have that I was like, yeah, you know, I guess I married
this, this organization for the right reasons. I mean, I saw in them what they saw in me
and this was, you know, mutual love. And so I went ahead and took that sabbatical, you
know, and I think that was my gift to myself to say that I haven't been there for me for
all these years. And now I want to, and I called it project Suchi.
We love that. We love that. Wow. Wow. It's just like you said, it's like these little
seeds that and we plant seeds and we don't know how it's gonna how it's gonna grow. We
grow it. We either grow it or we we kill it. And eventually it gets to that day that's
like, okay, now it's this is it, you know, you hit that wall and then you decided to
bring that extra love and it just brought back this blossoming flower. Yeah.
You know, I, you know, if you think about it, Susan, I think the way we're conditioned,
right, and the way that we're generally brought up and I think more so for women that we're
constantly put into the scarcity, you know, this mindset of that, oh, you know, if I'm
not gonna apply for that role, then I'm going to miss out forever. If I got that opportunity
and I don't, like, go all out, even at the cost of my health, then I'm never going to
be called into that again, or the narrative would be that I told you we shouldn't have,
you know, a woman in this position for whatever reasons. So this is from a professional standpoint
that way. But from a personal standpoint, take it as you know, like I did these unconventional
rules and I was always reminded that I'm testing my marriage, you know, things, things could
happen. And then if I was to be in a difficult place, it would be hard for me to find someone
because I'm a difficult, I'm a difficult woman, you know, so it's difficult to be with a lady
like this who's opinionated and loud and wants to take up space and wants a full shot at
life and is not a good cook, is not a good domestic project manager is what I like to
call it.
Not everyone's cup of tea.
Not everyone's cup of tea, you know, so in both spectrums of life, personal to professional,
you're constantly made to feel like there isn't enough. And so you have to grab on to
the stuff that's great for you. Because if you don't, you're going to miss out or you're
going to lose out or you're going to get, you know, the convention that you were trying
to break, the effort is defeated because then the old narrative wins again that I told you,
you know, that you're a woman, like behave, I told you that you're a woman, you shouldn't
be in that tech role, you know, that's just not you don't have the capability. So you're
almost always operating from a place of less than and fear and the fear of missing out.
And I think it was this moment that I realized that, you know, I'm going to make this decision
only out of love for me. Because I had this vision, you know, that what if I did collapse
in the office? And when I look back 20 years from now, is that how I want my life to play
out that I literally worked to the point where I knew I wasn't feeling well, and I still
pushed, and then I collapsed. And then I became, I don't know, you know, I reached a place
where I needed different kind of support system, vegetable and in its own ways. And I'm going
to look back and say, Yeah, you know, but what's commendable is you killed yourself,
even though you knew that, you know, you are not feeling okay. And I think that's when
I realized that if you're if you're living like, let's say, an average of zero to 80
years, and the grand scheme of that longevity, this is nothing, you're just giving yourself
a period of six months to literally regroup with you. And, you know, the amount of time
that we've dedicated to everyone else outside of us. What is that? That is nothing. And
how can how can I feel guilty about that? So I think, you know, this was this was a turning
point in me, I would say as a very big move. Yeah, in not necessarily understanding self
love, but I would say one of the grandest gestures I made of self love for myself, you
know, where I didn't consult. After a point, I didn't consult with anyone. I didn't share
with anyone. I just chose the few people that I know their lives are going to be influenced.
Like I was, you know, my husband, he's going to know that I'm going to be hanging around
the house like all the time. Or, you know, to talk to my then boss or to like a few really
close friends or to tell my sister, for example. But I kept it really tight knit because I
was like, I don't I think I'm fully clear why I'm doing it. I don't really need anyone's
opinion or unsolicited opinion because you're not walking my walk. You're not in my shoes
and you don't know what it's like to be me. And I valued my feelings, I would say, it's
probably the first time I respected how I felt. And I believed that my emotions were
valid. You know, the pain was valid. The worry was valid. The the exhaustion was valid. It
was real, you know, and I think that's that's really where that's really where the pivot
started. Yeah, it's like you also got rid of the expectations that everyone has been
put on you because there is always first it was the expectations of what you should be
as a woman, that who you should be as a daughter, then who you should be as a wife, then who
you should be as a worker. And it's like all these expectations one on top of each other.
Like there's no surprise someone then just starts to crumble under it. And it's so good
that you decided to make that choice to not let yourself get to that point. Yes. But you
can give yourself the time to go before. And that's something that I would advise to everyone.
Like always, always be aware of where you're at so that you can actually do something when
you still have the time to. So that is pretty nice. Really, really good. Definitely. You
know, and I think, you know, if I was to say something that people could do without having
to do a grand, you know, action, like taking a sabbatical and things like that, I would
say, you know, to just honor your feelings, you know, if you're feeling tired, practice
rest, recognize that resting is a huge productivity toolkit that you should have in your backpack.
If you're feeling agitated, then, you know, try to dive deeper at the end of the day into
why, why did I feel aggressive in that moment or why was I agitated? So respect those, you
know, difficult emotions and you don't have to dwell in them and spiral into them. But
I think giving them the respect and recognizing that they are a part of you. And so you do
want to understand, you know, where is it coming from? Is it something that I want to
work on? Is it something that I don't really care about? It's fine. It is what it is. Or
is it something that I just want to sit with and say, you know, I feel this way, so I am
going to not go there. I'm not going to do this to actually respect it enough to be able
to to be able to feel like you've heard yourself. You've seen yourself. You know, this is something
that is just daily tools that you could apply for you. You don't have to get to a burnout.
You know, you you constantly show up for you in smaller ways. And so it doesn't compound
into this, you know, magnanimous, I don't know, event in your life where you're just
like, how you say, like BC and like before burnout, and we should be like BC and AD.
I see what you mean. Yeah. Those things, you know, but I do think that if I if I look back,
I would say that, you know, from a young age being angry, if I had dive deeper into where
is this coming from? How is this serving me? How can I actually channel the anger to be
a productive emotion as opposed to holding it and walking with it all the time? And,
you know, so when when you're suddenly like the buttons are pushed, you're bleeding onto
people that you don't want to. You're vomiting into scenarios that you don't want to. But
it's actually it's basically culminating and it's now ready to burst out of you because
you just didn't want to spend time. Right. So sometimes, you know, now when I look back,
I think about it like there are situations when you've been in an argument or a discussion
that went like fireworks. I just see myself, you know, that I've been in a lot of like
solo musicals where you just have a conversation and you get triggered and you get insanely
angry, then you scream, you calm down, then you cry and then you shut down. And then you
say, how can we have a real conversation because you literally dance like a solo performance
of your own? And the person on the other side is probably just watching you and then just
like, oh, my God, you're like really scary. And then you come down to a space where you're
like, wait, do you really want to talk to me now? Or, you know, because this is just
what you've you've done to yourself because you don't sit down and look inward and say,
where is this anger coming from? It is a justified emotion. But is it a justified behavior? You
can take a minute to you can take that hot minute to look inward and say, you know, I
don't want to be so reactive. I want to respect the emotion, but I don't want to be so reactive.
So then you can dive deeper into that space to be able to free yourself from holding on
to that strong negative set of emotions. And that's something I really do think is an incredible
way of navigating life to respect all of your feelings and to give them a bit of time and
in terms of reflection and to sort of a little bit free yourself from, you know, holding
on to them without kind of understanding. Yes. Why or where or even giving it a, you
know, a perspective like, OK, I do feel like this because of this, but it's not important.
No, you know, it doesn't define me giving it a perspective shift that allows you to
free yourself from that emotion is also great. It's just such a it's such an important like,
for example, once I did get the start on the sabbatical, it was not a fun experience because
it was very, you know, I mean, I will I will talk to you about it. But one of the things
I did during it, you know, was I noticed that every single day not having an agenda, not
having a structure, not having purpose, not having a team to navigate, I felt like I'm
not really sure who I am without my job title. Like, I really don't know what my identity
is. And so I would go into this, you know, sensation of worry from the time I wake up.
Yes. And it would just spiral the whole day into the space of like darkness, where I would
constantly be itching to just go back to take on the next role. You know, like I had a mentor
then who was waiting for me. He already had a role for me. And then I had another senior
manager who was like, you know what, whenever you're ready, just tell me I'm going to grab
you back. And I was feeling this, you know, sensation of like, I think I should just go
write that email and do that. And then I was like, No, I mean, this is probably one of
the hardest decisions I can give myself six months, you know, I could sit down and do
this for me. And so what I decided I came up with this idea that I'm going to slot the
same time every single day to worry. So from 11am everyday, to worry the heck out of my
mind. And at 11, I would set you know, at 12, I would set a session at the gym and I
did get myself a coach then, because I wanted to be learning to disrupt. So I had to cut
it off at 11, you know, take a shower, get ready and I have to go out. And then I meet
the coach and you know, having this conversation doing like weight training or resistance training,
you're suddenly now present. Yes. So I found that having that consistency every day gave
me a bit of comfort that I'm allowed to worry, you know, I get to respect this feeling. And
then it gave me also comfort to know that I have a plan where I can't spiral into it
all day because right after I have a physical activity and an engagement with another human
being which allows me to cut off that energy. And then you you do that for like two months
or whatever, two and a half months. And suddenly, your brain is not very interested in worrying,
you know, it's just like, it's like, I don't have much to be spiraling into. And I don't
know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And I think you because
you respected that emotion, after a point, your your worries have been attended to, they
have been listened to, they have been respected. And it's another place where I recognize that
honoring all of those emotions as a part of you is important. And definitely not dwelling
on the fact that you are, but spending that, you know, certain amount of time to acknowledge,
to maybe a little bit check in with why or where is it coming from, and then disrupting
it, don't have to solve it, you don't have to reach any eureka moments or whatever, then
you disrupt it. And you know, if it shows up again, create some sort of consistency.
So your brain is also prepared. It's like, oh, nine a.m. tomorrow, I got to worry again.
So, you know, it's okay. I'm okay if today my windows over, I have a slot again tomorrow.
So you start to create a new pathway in the brain that's now the opposite of worrying.
It's comforted, it's seen, it feels acknowledged, it feels respected. And I think the emotion
got you know, it got its red carpet moment. Like, yeah, nice. I love that. I love that.
Definitely want to pick your brain on that because I know that you're now also creating
and putting together something that it's going to aid to also attend to yourself on a daily
basis.
Yes.
And then we can come back and we'll definitely go into that.
And thank you for listening in. And as always, we look forward to the next episode. While
in the meantime, we'll scroll below here on Spotify where we can find the poll. It's an
amazing tool for us to collect a bit of feedback, but also for us to build a pipeline of individuals
that would like to use this platform to come and share their stories and dive into different
topics, you know, get the conversation started. So thank you so much for that. And yeah, I
look forward to speaking with you soon. Take care.