Hey everybody and welcome back to the SoCap Improv
Comedy Podcast. My name is Ralph McLeod. I am
the owner and artistic director of the SoCap
Improv Comedy Theatre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
We're at 154 Danforth Avenue above the Black
Swan Tavern in Toronto, as I mentioned before.
We have, uh, we run or we... provide improv classes
for all levels uh and our classes are at least
equally geared towards people who do not want
to get on stage do not want to be comedians but
who have heard that improv might help me overcome
sex things is like my self -consciousness and
that is undeniably true that it will help uh
people some people many people Most people overcome
or help to, on the journey of overcoming self
-consciousness, I like to say, embrace your self
-confidence while overcoming your self -consciousness.
Get out of your head and get into the moment.
That's what I call it. And it's kind of true.
Every podcast has a sponsor, and today's sponsor
is, wow, this new dessert shop is taking the
Toronto by storm. So if you're ever out and about
looking for some delicious desserts, don't pass
by Custard's Last Stand. That's right, Custard's
Last Stand. It's a little big place. I make myself
laugh. That's really all I can do since I'm sitting
in a studio by myself. Just make myself laugh.
Yeah, so this podcast is about improvisation,
improv comedy, part of it, and how to make it
work better for you. What's the benefit of it,
especially, or at least as equally as important,
if you have no desire to ever get on stage? What?
is improv gonna do for me and boy oh boy it's
like the ocean the further in you go the deeper
it gets which is a quote about the doubt uh but
there is a lot of philosophy and psychology in
improv at least the way i do it and teach it
and perform it and practice it and it has become
an integral part of my daily life in fact i live
my life by the same things That I teach on stage
in improv. And boy, I can't even, couldn't even
begin to count or list the number of ways it's
helped me. Well, I've already mentioned too,
overcoming my self -consciousness. I hear this
thing about imposter syndrome. And if it's what
I think it is, the fact that people will catch
me being a fraud in some way, then that's, I
for sure had that. Because I was born in a...
To say I was born in a small town would be wrong.
It's like saying an ant is a small insect or
is a small creature. I grew up very remotely
away from people. And I mean, I had my family
and I had a very loving, wonderful family, although
most of my siblings were. getting married and
moving away, not moving away, but getting married
and having their own lives. Uh, so even though
I had a nice, lovely family for the most part,
they were very busy and doing their own things.
And so I, I kind of grew up by myself. Um, so
I had big imposter syndrome because I, I always,
I was a hick, you know, and I don't want to be
insulting to hicks, but I came from a small Very
small town. And what I really wanted to be was
an intellectual. I, you know, my, my dream as
a child or maybe not child, but as a young adult
teenager was that, you know, uh, I would have
loved to have parents who were university professors
because I was kind of a big city kid born in
a very small, like a farm. Uh, you know, I was
on a farm outside a remote village outside a.
smaller village or larger village outside of
small town. Anyway. Uh, yes. So it's, it's made
me a better father. Improv has made me a better
father, a better friend, more attentive. Uh,
the swings in my emotions are way more calmer.
Like I don't have as big ups and it's crushing
downs. Um, can't remember the last time I was
truly, truly angry. Um, And, uh, frustration
wise, you know, if it's not in my car being frustrated
at people who block intersections, uh, then it's,
uh, yeah, most of my frustrations are around
driving and it's just how unsafe and how discourteous
people are. But in terms of like talking to people,
one -on -one camera, last time I was very angry
or was at a loss for words or felt uncomfortable
in situations. And this is all. uh stems from
for me from improv and how it has helped me navigate
the world and people and myself okay so uh i
want to talk today about uh why is this boring
that's uh you know there's and there's and i
don't want to just say there are only two reasons
but these are the big two uh when you're watching
scenes on stage or in class why they're boring
uh or why you might be involved in a scene and
be like oh boy this is boring this is so boring
i want to be anywhere else and a little sidebar
if you are on stage at a performance or in a
class and you're thinking that thought of like
oh this is so boring oh my god oh please hurry
up and have this end you can be almost Almost
a guarantee that everybody watching you feels
the same way. Just please end this. Oh my God.
How much longer is this going to go on? So if
you find yourself in that situation, especially
in front of a paid audience, change it. There's
lots of ways to change it. You want to know some
ways? Come and take a class with me. I'll show
you some ways to change it. Because your audience
will just pull their hair out and they won't
come back. So if you're feeling that way, change
it. Now, interestingly enough, as this podcast
is about also people who do not want to get on
stage, that is the same in the real world. If
you are at an event, dinner party, whatever,
casual place, and you're talking to somebody
and you're like, oh my God, I want this conversation.
And you can be almost guaranteed they want the
same thing. In fact, one of the ways I know that
people like me is I like them. if I'm with somebody
and I'm having a good time, I know they're having
a good time. I don't even have to question it
anymore. And I know if they're not and they're
awkward and I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying
to fake it till I make it. I know they would
just really rather we just call the whole thing
off and we move on. So it's the same, like on
stage, if you're, what you're feeling inside
is boredom and nervousness and anxiety and you
want to be anywhere else. The people watching
you feel the same way. And that's one of the
magical things that we're proud of, which there
are many, but that's one of them. What do audiences
really respond to? Well, sorry, that's not exactly
what I meant to say. I meant to say that your
audience will pick up on what you as a performer
are feeling the same way that we can subtly pick
up on the way people are feeling in the real
world, even if they're trying to fake it. You
know, it's very hard to fake. enthusiasm when
you're not really enthusiastic. It's hard to
fake that you like somebody when you don't really
like somebody. And while the social niceties
dictate that we do these things sometimes, you're
not really fooling too many people. Only the
people who want to be fooled. Anyway, why is
this boring? That's the question I wanted to
talk about today. And there are two main reasons.
why when we watch improv, it's boring, or when
we're with other people in a social setting,
it's boring. The first, and I'll probably start
with the one that's the easiest to probably understand
from a drama perspective, or when you're watching
improv, one of the first things that's going
on is The emotional stakes are not changing.
So two characters are basically sitting down
talking, but nobody is getting excited or angry
or scared or sad or interested, curious or proud.
So nothing is happening emotionally to these
characters. You see that a lot with just talking
head scenes where two people are talking about
things and maybe one character will present an
idea of. well, maybe we should do something.
The other character will very quickly give reasons
why it shouldn't happen. In a previous podcast,
I think the last one, I mentioned sometimes there
are scenes where the suggestion will be skydiving.
And so those scenes always start in the airplane,
moments away from skydiving, and then the participants
will never jump out of the plane. And what they
wind up doing is sitting around talking. basically
now saying why they have second thoughts or why
the other person talked them into it and even
curiously in those situations where they will
express uh what some kind of frustration or anger
with the other character why they talked them
into it they won't follow through on it they'll
just say that and then they'll go back to like
well i don't know how much longer we can stand
here the plane's gonna land soon we're gonna
make a decision and then they never do um But,
yes, in those situations, the emotional stakes
never change because we're waiting for them to
jump out of an airplane and feel some euphoria
or fear or something, and they never do. So if
you are in a scene and basically you're just
sitting around talking and there's no emotional
change, it'll be boring. Even if you're emotional,
even if you're not just being boring talking,
maybe you are. in the middle of a terror terror
or you're angry uh or everything is great the
great one is a little more difficult but well
not really in general no they're they're all
the same so even if you have a strong emotional
reaction but it doesn't change that will still
get boring so whether you have no emotion or
a strong one and it doesn't change those scenes
will get boring and i in this situation i like
the analogy of a musical melody that you could
have the most beautiful melody in the world,
but if it doesn't change, we're going to get
bored of it and we're going to walk away. And
we're like, okay, enough, enough, enough. Too
much repetition, too much not progressing onto
the next thing. We are all hardwired storytellers
and we know that there is a point to what we're
watching. There is a point where it will move
on to something else because we're building towards
something. Now, in the real world, conversations
just about dry stuff, unless you have a keen
interest in that, in that the content of that
thing is going to be the same. It's, you know,
as an intellectual exercise, it may be good.
But when you're just sitting around at like a
social function and you're talking to somebody.
and they're just telling you some dry material,
you're going to get kind of bored. Because the
idea of meeting somebody in a social situation
is, hey, how do we get along? Are we friends?
Or passing the time together? What just dry information
is going to be. So in those situations, you want
to try to engage the emotion of the other character,
the other person. And here, this sort of rule
of thumb, sorry to use that expression, sort
of general principle is to replace your desire
to be, to show off or to be impressive with relatability
and curiosity and interest, interest in your
person. Depending on what goal you have, right?
Maybe your goal is to get the hell out of there
as fast as possible. That's a different thing.
But if your goal is to be seen as likable, if
you want people to like you, trying to impress
them will not work generally. I mean, work is
a different situation, but I'm talking about
in social situations. But offering people your
interest, your curiosity, your support. You're
listening. You're non -judgment. These things
will tend to injure those people to you. And
the same thing on stage. Replace your desire
to say some amazing line that you've just thought
up in your head or you've been working on all
day trying to start a scene with and replace
that with curiosity, relatability, what in the
other character and build something together.
Previously, I've talked about how invention,
What you do as a solo performer in an improv
setting is really hard to make that interesting
and compelling. But what we can do together,
the discovery that we can make together, is often
very compelling. And the second reason that scenes
tend to be boring is there's a lack of agreement
on what the people are doing. They're not agreeing
their situation. They're not agreeing to who's
who. One person might think we're friends, whereas
the other actor thinks that these characters
are lovers. And that is boring because either
A, as a viewer, you don't know what's going on,
so it's not for you. So much like hearing the
punchline of a joke and not getting it, you kind
of tend to walk away because it's not for you.
Or they don't know what's going on. You don't
know what's going on. And there's no compelling
reason to watch. Because again, it's not for
you. You might be missing something. Or they
just don't know what's going on. So there's nothing
to relate to. There's no firm foundation from
which to build something. There's no point. Another
thing that happens, it's a similar thing in here
where in order to try to be funny, actors, improvisers
will say things that are completely unrelatable.
Like, wow, you've got 38 kids. And you hear that
and you just go, what? No, you don't. People
don't have 38 children. I mean, yes, it has happened.
It can happen. And if you do say that in the
scene, if you open your mouth and you say, oh,
yeah, I get lustral, like 38. While everybody
is hanging on the justification, you know, what
would come next would be the synthesis line that
would make that make sense and make that relatable.
It might get a chuckle out of me if you can tell
me why a character has 38 children. You know,
without being, you know, without being insulting
to certain religions or certain people. Even
the religions that you can't make fun of. Not
in my class. We don't make fun of anybody. We
don't mock anybody. It's a pretty good rule.
I had a discussion in my class just a few days
ago about mocking lawyers. I'm like, well, why?
Why is that okay? Because they make more money
than you do? Because you've had a bad interaction
with a lawyer? Or just because of the general
zeitgeist of lawyers are all crooks and all that
stuff? Well, again, if you're doing this in front
of an audience. And you think that's okay. Anybody
in your audience who's a lawyer will hate you.
Meanwhile, if you say something nice about lawyers,
they will love you. What do you want at the end
of the day? Do you want to be loved or what?
I don't know. That's up to you. That's a different
thing. Anyway, but for now, that's what's going
on. So either scenes are boring. There's two
things tend to be going on. Number one, the emotional
stakes aren't changing. And that usually manifests
by people just sitting around chatting. and every
time they suggest some kind of mode of action
or do something the other person stops it and
we're just back to talking and uh the other one
that tends to happen a lot is this is when you
get the two characters are in conflict with each
other uh you know like my movie loves you best
uh no she didn't she loved us both equally well
what are you talking about my experience she
was always doting on you well that's not what
i saw i saw this that's a conflict between the
characters and without any kind of just you know
coming to a conclusion as to who is right we're
fighting over details emotional stakes don't
change and that's also a very boring scene and
that that tends to happen quite a bit with conflict
when the conflict exists between the two characters
or three characters but when it's that kind of
conflict and nothing tends to happen and those
scenes usually end with eventually one character
capitulating but by then everyone is asleep And
it's too late. So this is why we say yes. One
reason we say yes. And so that's the one reason
emotional stakes don't change. And the second
reason is that there's no agreement and nobody
knows what's going on. Or people are making,
again, the agreement side of that is bizarre
offers that make no sense. Like this is one I
like to point out that was actually said in my
class once where. one character walked in looked
at the other one and just out of the blue said
why are you reading your pants nobody laughed
as you would expect but boy oh boy that sounds
like it would be funny doesn't no it doesn't
and it's not funny uh it's just bizarre without
a lot of justification so the corollary to that
is you can definitely start a scene like that
but be prepared to justify it and make it relatable
and make it understandable so that people will
laugh at it And why are you eating your pants?
John's a chuff. Oh, he's still broke. He has
to eat his pants. See, it works. But it's not
like never do these things. That's why I don't
have rules. But it depends on what you want to
do. And do you want to be nice to your scene
partners? Or do you want to be mean to them?
Do you want people to want to play with you or
not? Anyway, I'm getting beyond the scope of
this one podcast, which is, hey, emotional stakes.
So have your emotional stakes change. If you're
bored, cry, laugh, scream. There's a story, I
don't know if it's apocryphal, of the late, great
Alan Arkin, who recently passed away, who would,
when he was bored, would walk up to his scene
partner, touch his forehead with his own forehead,
and scream at him, you're driving me crazy. Now,
I'm not advocating you do that, but the you're
driving me crazy part, yes, that, or cry or laugh.
And the second one is, we're on different pages
so you always got to be on the same page again
if i have one rule about improv and i'm not sure
i do but i think if i did have a rule it'd be
this one the performers have to agree on what's
going on um and if they don't it's it's not gonna
work unless it might work in spite of itself
you know we might laugh at you but it's hard
to laugh with you you don't know what's going
on we might laugh at the train wreck that is
your seat or that is your story of the real world.
Anyway, that's my time for today. Thanks, everybody.
Hope to see you all back here again next time
for more SoCap Improv Comedy Podcast. And don't
forget, go check out Custard's Last Stand for
all your custard needs. Ciao.