Hello everybody and welcome back to the SoCap
Improv Comedy Podcast. My name is Ralph McLeod.
I am the owner and artistic director of the SoCap
Improv Comedy Theatre at 154 Danforth Avenue
in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. My URL is socap
.ca. That's S -O -C -A -P dot C -A. We do improv
classes, shows. We have two stages you can rent
and put on your own show. We do private events,
corporate events, my goodness, all kinds of stuff.
And this podcast, while it is geared somewhat
to improv for performance because, well, it's
part of what I teach, but it is also largely
for people who are not interested in performing,
but more interested in what improv. Provides
for people who do not want to be the next TFA
who do not want to get on stage necessarily and
perform in my experience a lot of people who
Start out saying they do not want to get on stage
actually do get on stage in some of our student
shows and You know cross that thing off the old
bucket list Because it is You know by and large
doing something doing things that are tough and
uncomfortable uh build resilience anti -fragility
and so for that reason you know if you're not
if your intention is not to become a professional
comedian i still think you know having a goal
of working towards and getting on stage is uh
worthwhile for uh personal growth you know again
resilience anti -fragility doing things that
are tough because once you do them you go huh
i did that You know, one of the things I spend
a lot of time thinking about, there's this old
joke about a guy who's walking down the street
and he comes upon a person who's banging their
head against the post. And he says to the guy,
like, whoa, whoa, whoa, why are you doing that?
Why are you banging your head against the post?
And the guy says, because it feels so good when
I stomp. And I love that joke. But I think about
it now in a very different way. I think, like,
it's true. I like to do tough things, which I've
said probably many times on this podcast, because
it does feel good when you stop. You're like,
oh, I did that. Oh, boy, it was hard. It fulfilled
me with anxiety or fear or it was hard or I hated
it. But, boy, I'm glad I did it. the way people
train for and do tough things like triathlons
or marathons or even just going to the gym or
talking to strangers you know things that are
tough and you do them and you go okay well my
fear of that thing was way worse than the thing
itself often in my experience um yeah so uh every
podcast has a sponsor uh And today's podcast
is sponsored by Wexler's Beef. Wexler's Beef,
your mouth is in our hands. Wexler's Beef for
all your beef -related needs. So check them out
on wexlersbeef .ca. That's a totally made -up
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it. Now I'm going to have to check. Okay, so
today I wanted to take kind of a deeper dive
into... Very, in my opinion, misunderstood idea,
misunderstood concept. And so I want to have
a chat about two words, yes and. I mentioned
them before in a podcast entitled The Two Most
Misunderstood Concepts. And so I won't belabor
that. uh too much to go over that ground again
but uh because i do and i do well i mean always
you know hey go back and listen to them pretty
good but um just in brief what the idea is is
um a lot of students come to me and they say
uh so for okay for example a character a will
say the character b uh hey Why don't you jump
off this bridge? And character B will say, okay.
And I'm like, well, why would you say that? And
they say, well, I have to say yes. I have to
say yes and. And I'm like, no, you don't. You
don't literally have to say yes and. The character
does not have to say the words yes and. But it
is conveyed that way, and a lot of teachers teach
that way. Now, first of all, I am not here to
say that that's wrong. Right. In my opinion,
I don't like it. And I'll talk about the reasons
why. But I understand where that comes from.
And I'm not here to say that if you teach that
or if you've learned it that way, that that's
necessarily wrong. I don't do it that way. But,
you know, I'm not here to say that. anybody's
wrong or any school of thought is better than
any other or nothing like it's because everybody's
different and we all learn different ways and
that's totally cool but for me uh you know when
a character says jump off this bridge you say
okay i'm like well why would you say yes well
because i have to say yes okay well let's talk
about what this means and this is the way i describe
it and explain it so on the surface the idea
of yes and does not exist on the level of the
character and that is the character may not have
to say yes so to a suggestion or offer of why
don't you jump off a bridge uh the yes part is
that okay i hear what you said and i hear what
your intention is which is you want me to jump
off this bridge so to me saying i'm not going
to jump off a bridge what's the matter with you
is a complete and perfect yes and uh because
you're saying yes i understand what you're asking
me to do and my answer is i'm not doing that
that's ridiculous what's the matter with you
uh now if you just said the word no and left
it there well that's we're kind of at an impasse
so you do need the and part which is what is
the matter with you i .e why would you suggest
that and uh because to just say yes and jump
off the bridge believes uh first of all it won't
be funny it'll be just dark and it'll just leave
in the audience or anybody listening to this
the impression that well they don't know what's
going on it's unrelatable therefore the characters
seem crazy i put that in heavy quotation marks
but they see they're acting out of the expected
they're not acting in an expected way and what's
expected is if someone asked you know an average
person no that's not normal but an average person
to jump off a bridge they would say you go to
hell right they would say no i'm not doing that
that's and what the hell's the matter with you
why would you even ask that and that's a perfect
yes and so um so that's to me what yes and means
it exists in the level of actors right and this
comes back to as improvisers what are we trying
to do that's a question that No one really, I've
never heard anyone pose that question until I
started posing it. And maybe other teachers are
now doing it. I don't know. But I, you know,
I'd never heard it in my entire existence as
a student, which of course, you know, has ended
like quite a while ago, well over 20 years ago.
But I've never heard it mentioned in any, you
know, my friends who are teachers. This is not
criticism anyway. It's just like. Boy, that's
an you know, like when you start thinking about
it like that's that's a good question. What are
we doing? You know and you'll hear things like
or making stuff up and that's true and I think
you know the the answer of what is improv has
goes many layers deeper these YouTube videos
where You know, there'd be like a physicist who
will explain gravity on five levels of detail,
like to a person in kindergarten, all the way
up to like a postdoc student in physics, right?
And I think there's the same thing about improv.
You can have many different definitions that
go deeper and deeper and deeper, but also because
improv is not recorded. like you know on video
or in a digital media the way like acting is
or painting or music it doesn't exist in the
public consciousness in the same way so it's
very regional and there's you know if if somebody's
who had no experience in improv put up a sign
and said improv classes i couldn't say to them
that's not improv right because there is no accepted
universally accepted definition of what that
is so if someone says improv is making stuff
up like yep okay improv it's uh it's uh messing
around yep absolutely it's play yes it's so many
different things but the the definition that
i like uh the sort of easier one or simpler one
or one sentence one or one line one really, if
you need more than one line to define something,
it's probably not that good of a definition,
is that we're just trying to play with other
people. That's it. But that means it's not the
characters playing, it's the actors that are
playing. If we have a scene where I'm yelling
at you, I'm doing that because it's fun, not
because I have some axe to bear or not because,
you know, I'm trying to fight for my character's
position. No, it's like, I'm doing this because
it's fun. We've agreed to play a game in which
we're going to yell at each other, or I'm going
to yell at you and you're going to take it. But
that's fun. That's why we do it. So the yes and
is, so here's what I want to really talk about
today. It's like, what does my scene partner
want to do, or partners? What do they want to
do? Oh, they want me to be the baddie. Okay,
I'll be the baddie. Or they want to try to dominate.
Okay, that's great. Maybe I'll try to dominate
them back. Or maybe I'll be submissive and we'll
play that game. But what tends to happen is people
get into positions, declare positions, and then
they don't want to move from that position. And
so we have a lot of tension between the actors.
To figure out what we're going to do and what
tends to happen is a lot of no is going on. Because,
no, I don't want to play that game. I don't want
to play the game of I'm cheating because that
would make me look bad. Even though it's not
me, it's a character. But because I'm playing
this character, people will associate that with
me. So if a character comes home and says to
their spouse, is that lipstick on your call 95
maybe i don't know maybe not 95 but the majority
of time improvisers will block will say no no
no no or you know they'll say oh well you know
what that was just uh that was just uh an accident
you know but when someone says is that lipstick
on your collar what do they want to play they
want to play the infidelity game they want to
play the human cheating game that's what they
want And so for me, yes anding is give them what
they want. And afterwards, like if you're playing
with someone and they're constantly making you
do things or endowing you to do things and you're
always playing their game, then you have a conversation
because you also want to play your game too.
So if you fire back, yes, it's lipstick on my
collar. I've been having an affair. I've been
having this affair because you've been distant.
And that other person says, no, I haven't. No,
wait a minute. Hold on. Now it's time to play
my game, the You've Been Distant game. Okay,
yes, I have been distant. I have. And then go
on from there. So yes and, to me really, is let's
play. And how do we play? By saying yes. So at
the beginning of scenes, when we don't know anything,
except maybe you can make one or a couple of
small things like... an attitude about the other
character or an emotion that you take on or a
status you know those are good places to start
and then from there you mean as an individual
and then from there working with your scene partner
or partners you develop your context you know
the who what where if you like the lay of the
land the starting conditions those are all synonymous
they all mean the same thing it's letting the
audience know who we're looking at uh and that's
much easier to do if you look at your scene partner
and develop it together uh in my opinion of course
there is a school of thought of one character
just comes out and blurts out who i'll wear in
one line hello darling here we are walking along
the chancelise on our honeymoon well now we all
know what's going on but that doesn't involve
anybody else and it's an invention not a discovery
which is less interesting but it can be necessary
so again i'm not saying don't do that or shame
on anybody who teaches that way that's just not
the way i teach nor the way i like um you know
and nor do i think it lends itself to being playful
it lends itself to being more internal and in
your head and not out gazing more inward than
outward and i'm more about outward and using
all the tools and all the stimuli that we have
in our hands and saying yes to all of that right
the way you feel the way your scene partner looks,
what they are doing or not doing, what they say
or not saying, how they say it or how they don't
say it. All of that is information that tells
you what's going on. And then you discover what's
happening through the power of yes anding. So
in that way, even when your partner says nothing,
that's an offer. Oh, cat got your tongue, huh?
Yeah, makes sense. you know if i were you i'd
also probably be pretty hush -hush so everything
becomes an offer when you yes and everything
um but in terms of saying yes to your scene partners
it's what game do they want to play this is it
lends to this tends to derail a lot of scenes
for people who have experience right is i'm not
willing to play the game that you want to play
it because i have something in my head that i
want to play And so in that way, you're not serving
the relationship and the interaction. You're
thinking about your own selfish needs. Now, take
this offstage into the real world. It's the same
thing. You know, when I meet people, I play with
them. And I'll play whatever game they want to
play. And I'll say yes to whatever they want
to say. Because that is if I want them to like
me or I want to like them or get to know them
or have a good time. And having a good time is
something I'm always very interested in doing.
You know, I find... very seldomly that i don't
enjoy talking to people one -on -one i almost
always enjoy it and uh often that is coming down
to finding a common language you know what do
we bond over what do we agree about how are we
similar especially when you meet strangers when
you have like well there's really what why are
we even interacting why don't we just go our
separate ways and often you do or often you have
a brief interaction you go your separate way
but if you treat everybody like that how are
you ever going to make a new friend or a new
partner or a new acquaintance right so i'm always
got my head up and uh talking to people and i
say yes to whatever they want to talk about and
you know i tend to be more agreeable you know
unless they say something horrendous which does
happen but not very often and when they do say
things i disagree with i'm much more interested
in finding out why you know this is this is a
bit of a a segue but you know this idea of debate
now is all about trying to convince other people
that we're right and i don't i don't see debate
that way at all to me debate is more about learning
why other people have different opinions than
i do and figuring out why what's going on and
not just assuming that they're garbage people
because we disagree anyway so yes and is the
foundational principle or a foundational principle
of improvisation Because what it allows us to
do is when we really do it is play with other
performers, other human beings in a non -judgmental
way. We are going to come together, create a
game, create the rules of that game, and play
it all in real time. And that sounds daunting,
but it's a discovery process that we experience
together. And that... to me is what yes and is
all about okay that's my time for today so thanks
very much for joining me on this deeper dive
into what yes and is what it's all about and
uh remember we're trying to play and when you
can play with somebody boy oh boy what happens
fear goes away where the scene is going goes
away uh what's the ending gonna be How am I going
to mind this thing upcoming? All of that goes
away and everybody's in the moment. And if you
watch scenes a lot, and I do, that always happens.
When we're truly playing, everybody is involved,
including anybody watching. Everybody's having
a good time. There's no fear. There's no, I guess,
anxiety, which is fear. Same kind of thing. There's
no panic about where it's going. It's just, we're
just existing and living in this moment together
and playing and having a good time. And anybody
watching it gets caught up in it. And it's a
very magical thing. It's one of the magical things
about improvisation. Anyway, thanks very much,
everybody. So SoCap .ca, check us out. My name's
Ralph. And yeah, please, any questions, comments,
send them along to Ralph at SoCap .ca. Just put
in the title, Your Dumb Podcast, and talk to
me. good or bad and i've heard both so uh you
know more good thankfully but you know you expect
that all right thanks everybody have a good week
bye