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Well, welcome back everybody.

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My name is Josh Klaus.

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And I'm Jennifer Seltzer.

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And this is another episode of Your Mom on Drugs.

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It is a nice sunny day outside, just getting hot here in Texas if you're in the South.

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We decided to kind of do a little fun exercise.

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I think it was over the holidays, which was many months ago, but we were talking

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amongst our family members about food and how basically some people avoid food with

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certain preservatives in it. And me being the skeptic that I am, anytime anyone makes

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a categorical statement, I'm like, I don't know if that's a thing. So I begged my mom, I was like,

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I think we should do one on preservatives. And she was like, no, no, no, for the longest time.

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And then finally, we pulled the trigger. And we're like, you know what, let's just let's do it.

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Let's talk about it. And so luckily, Dr. Seltzer, the mom on drugs, is going to give us an overview

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of preservatives. Basically, the things that we use in food to preserve shelf life and things like

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that. She's going to give a more precise definition. But before I let the mom on drugs go into

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this wonderful information we're going to do today, I kind of just want to flag and kind of

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give some overarching ideas of what we're talking about today. I think the first one is that since

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we're in a nutrition space, it's a little bit different than doing pharmaceutical trials,

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because you can't just stick a bunch of people in a room and give them a certain diet, and then

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another person a certain diet, and then compare outcomes just because humans, that's just not how

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humans eat. And it's like, we eat very diverse things. I might have a burger in the morning,

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which would be kind of weird. And then maybe some tacos at dinner, and then maybe some celery

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tomorrow because I'm feeling bad about myself. But a lot of times these studies are done in like

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animal models. And animals, when you feed animals, they don't eat food like we do. They usually give

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them like a single pellet, or sometimes they can just eat as much as they'd like. So sometimes it's

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comparing apples to oranges when doing nutrition studies and also doing observational studies in

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people. The second thing too is the dose makes the poison. So if you consume a large enough dose

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of anything, even oxygen, even water, it's called drowning, then it will be bad for you. So that's

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why we do studies. That's why we study things. We figure out the appropriate dose at which something

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becomes harmful, and then we basically limit the ranges of the doses so that we can kind of live in

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a safe zone. And then I think that's it. I think those are the two points that I wanted to raise

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before going in. So just to keep in mind that nutritional space is hard to study. It's hard to

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pin down causality. Basically, this thing causes that. So you're looking sometimes at a lot of

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correlation. But it doesn't mean it's bad. It just means that sometimes it's really hard to find the

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smoking gun. You want to add anything to that, Kavi? No, that sounds great. That sounds great.

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All right. Well, with that being said, let's talk about preservatives. Let's talk about

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preservatives. So when Joshua asked me about doing preservatives, my biggest reservation was it's a

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huge topic. And so we're not going to get into the nitty gritty about each individual preservative

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that's available. And we're also going to just target primarily food and pharmaceutical

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preservatives. More about food than pharmaceuticals just because there's just more reasons to have

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preservatives in food. Excuse me. But let me start out just by telling y'all

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the definitions of preservatives that I came up with by looking in the dictionary or looking

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in resources. So first of all, and it's probably kind of intuitive, a preservative is going to be

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a natural or a synthetic compound. And what it's going to do is it's going to help slow or prevent

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bacterial growth in foods, medicines, and even your personal care products. So we actually have

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preservatives in our makeup and in our body lotions and that as well too. But we're not going to really

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focus on that too much today. Yeah. And to flag the difference between natural versus synthetic

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is that natural just means it's found somewhere in nature. Yes. Whereas synthetic, it's found

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nowhere in nature. It's just something that we have made in the lab that is unique to human

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development. Great. Another angle or aspect of a preservative is that again, it's going to

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hope to prevent the product from deteriorating either from oxidation because oxygen can create

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some chemical reactions that will cause things to break down or preservative is going to kill or

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inhibit microorganism growth because microorganisms either they can get added inadvertently due to the

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manufacturing process or just by using them. Like if we leave our potato salad out a little bit too

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long on that picnic, then you can get some antimicrobial growth. I mean, some microbial

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growth. So you've got either antioxidants or antimicrobials as preservatives used in food

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and in medications as well too and in your cosmetics. But again, like I said, we're not

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going to really talk about cosmetics today. I thought this was really interesting thought for

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us to think about. A hundred years ago, we weren't really thinking so much about food preservatives

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because all of us were our own little microcosm of providing our own food. We all had our own farm.

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We all had our own garden. So we were creating our food. We had our own chickens and cows

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and killed them. And we weren't having to go to the grocery store or a market to get our food

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items. So preservatives were not necessary because we were cooking everything fresh every day.

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Also things were seasonal, right? Like you wouldn't get an avocado in January.

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Right. But now we can ship an avocado from a temperate region and then have it delivered

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to somewhere in New York and would naturally happen. But then how do you keep that thing fresh

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or basically non rotten for the entire duration? Right. And so that's a great segue. So because

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we live in the 21st century now in 2024, we can get, we get foods from all over the place.

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And so for those foods to be delivered in a safe environment, to be on the shelf in the grocery

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store in the safe environment, to be in your home safely before you even open it, we've had to add

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things to them called preservatives to reduce bacterial growth or microbial growth as well as

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to preserve shelf life. So a couple of things that are done to with preservatives are to,

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one of the things is actually, and let me say that these chemicals that are added that we consider

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preservatives in food, we're going to talk about food preservatives first and then we're going to

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talk about pharmaceutical preservatives. So these chemicals that are added to our food

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and our medications are actually tested by the Food and Drug Administration and they're considered

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safe. Now, again, when we consider things as safe as Josh, well, I'm sure reiterate to you,

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it may not be in 100% of people, but again, there's a large majority where it's shown to be safe.

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So we don't know. And these, these preservatives are in smaller amounts. So it's not like large

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amounts that you need to like worry about, like you're eating a whole like glob of,

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glob of, you know, a nitrate or whatever and stuff. So, I mean, so it's, it's, it's in reasonable

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small amounts to protect our food. And so a couple of things that are used to protect our food

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are first of all, they'll use wax coatings. Maybe you feel it when you buy a cucumber.

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That's the one I think of the most, but you, you add this wax coating, it's safe to eat.

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It's usually, it's invisible, colorless, odorless, and it's tasteless, but it helps the produce or

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the product stay fresh during shipment. And it reduces food waste and increases the shelf life,

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and it improves its appearance. So again, that's the deal is like you, you, I mean,

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now a cucumber is probably not going to last for six months. I've seen them in my refrigerator

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after a week or two, and you don't probably want to eat that anymore. But for those couple, you

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know, again, for the, for that time period, it's going to be more palatable because it is kept more

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fresh looking. There are also preservatives that are added to things to prevent changes in color,

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flavor, and texture. Those are important things to us when we eat food. So we, things like the,

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things like ice cream or salad dressings or mayonnaise, there are things that are added

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to those things. So you keep the oil and water from separating because those, they're kind of

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emulsion type things. And so you need those things to mix together or it doesn't look so good, you

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know. So salad dressings, you know, we have to shake them up. Right. Yeah. Just a basic little

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chemistry lesson of, you know, water is obviously made of water and oil is made of usually fatty

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substance and fat substance in water doesn't really mix very well. We call fatty substance,

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we call it hydrophobic, meaning that it repels water, doesn't like to interact with it. So these

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little chemicals, we call them emulsifiers, and then you can make something called emulsion. You

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might do that when you're baking, you know, add something to basically, so you can have your

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your butters and your other, you know, water-based liquids be able to mix together.

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And so I'm sure you've seen maybe before, I don't know if you've, maybe some college kids out there

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because I'm definitely guilty of this, of leaving a bottle of salad dressing and never using it. And

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then over time, you'll see the two layers start to separate, like those emulsifiers have broken

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down. And then so now you're just left with the oil, usually on top because it's less dense,

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and then the other stuff on the bottom. So yeah, these things are important to kind of give that

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kind of homogeneity or that kind of similar looking liquid so you don't notice that it's

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actually a mixture inside of there. So that's really cool. Right. So and then the last thing

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that that as far as these preservatives and food, they're going to delay what we call rancidity,

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probably people have heard of the word of, you know, it looks rancid or whatever. And so,

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so I looked up the definition of rancidity, and it's the natural process of the decomposition

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of fats or oils. And so, so these so fats or oils in food will break down. And so they lead to an

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undesirable flavor or odor. And usually this this breakdown occurs by what a mechanism called

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hydrolysis. So that means that hydrogen, hydrogen ions are added in it causes a chemical reaction

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in the oil or fat will break down, or oxidation. So oxygen can do the same thing. So we don't want

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our food to be rancid, because then we don't want to eat it anymore. So there are several ways to

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prevent rancidity. Because, again, you think about food is a big business. I mean, we've got the

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farmers, we've got the grocery store people, we've got the truck industry that delivers them and

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stuff. And so to keep them preserved and ready for the market for us to go buy it is really

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important for our economy, you know, as well to Yeah, if you're gonna like if you're gonna grow

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100 tomatoes, and you want to sell 100 of those tomatoes, you want to delay the rancidity as much

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as you can, so you give as much time to consumer to go and buy those tomatoes, you know, for whatever

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they need to do. If you're only selling 50, because 50 of them have gone rotten, then yeah, I mean,

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you're gonna make half the profit from the same amount of labor that you put in. So from a farmer's

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perspective, and a grocery store as well, who probably has to buy these items wholesale,

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you know, from growers and producers of these goods, it just benefits everybody to have these

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things on the shelf as long as possible. Right. So some ways to prevent rancidity. The first one is

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you add inert gases. And this was primarily something that I saw is done to like chip bags.

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So you add nitrogen to these bags, it displaces the oxygen, so that you're going to reduce that

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oxygenation activity and those chips are going to last longer and stuff. So that's really cool. So

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that's why when you open a chip bag, there's far less than you thought there was going to be in

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there. So you feel it's all big and puffy. And then it's like, oh, there's like 12 chips in here.

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Yeah, so yeah. But they're good chips because they were preserved. And the other thing you

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can do is you can add antioxidants. And obviously, that is going to be something that's going to

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compensate for oxygen activities or oxidation. So we can have either natural antioxidants,

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like vitamin E is one, but they usually have a short shelf life. So they may not last as long

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with a natural antioxidant. And we have a lot of synthetic antioxidants as well too,

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and semi-synthetic oxidants. We also have what are called metal chelators and oxygen scavengers.

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Other ways to reduce rancidity are going to be refrigerating items or vacuum packaging,

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keeping things in an airtight container, as well as storing things in a cool, dark area that keeps

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microbes from growing as well. And then hydrogenation, which is a way that you can

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add a hydrogen ion to certain fats, and it makes them less prone to rancidity. And it's beyond my

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intellect as far as exactly how that process works. The prime example that comes, I remember

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learning this in biochemistry is Oreos. So you can take vegetable oil and do the process of

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hydrogenation and you take something like, basically like vegetable oil. And when you

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hydrogenate it, you essentially turn it into an unsaturated fat, and I'm sorry, no, a saturated

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fat. And that makes it more solid than a butter compared to vegetable oil, and it actually makes

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it solid. And so you actually have this nice creamy stuff that you can make an Oreo out of.

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So hydrogenation is actually just the process of altering the fat so that you can basically

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change its chemical properties from going from, because I mean, imagine a liquid Oreo that

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wouldn't be very good. So you have this nice kind of white, creamy deliciousness that you could eat.

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And then I usually just break them apart. And I do the double. You basically break apart one Oreo

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and another Oreo, and then you get the double stuff. And it was so good. There you go. There you go.

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So again, just to remind everyone that preservatives are going to slow spoilage,

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and they're going to help control germs that can cause foodborne illness. Because again, we sure

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don't, I mean, we've definitely all read about, you know, food contaminations and stuff that happen

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and stuff. And so what we can do to prevent that is what we're going to do. Like I said before,

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the food preservatives that are added, we usually do them in low levels. Because, and also this was

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interesting too, some preservatives can be multifunctional. They can be an antimicrobial,

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as well as an antioxidant, or maybe a chelator as well too. So they can serve, so I guess

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again, you're using the smallest amount to have the most function. So again, we'll kind of

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get into a little bit more specifics. So the two main types of food preservatives are

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antimicrobials and antioxidants. We'll talk first about antimicrobials. And an antimicrobial is a

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substance that's used to preserve food to prevent the growth of pathogens and deteriorative

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organisms and subsequent spoilage. So you're going to reduce, and it's not just bacteria,

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but it's also yeasts and molds as well too. This was really like sobering. Microbiological damage

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to foods is the most important problem related to food loss. Approximately 25% of the world's

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food supply is lost every year due to microbial damage. That's amazing.

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And then we think about third world countries that are not as sophisticated as us. That's why

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they get cholera and other disease, because they eat stuff that they shouldn't because it's not

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taken care of and stuff. And also probably there might be places, obviously in America,

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we have too much food. But in places like that where you're trying to deliver as much food as

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possible in places where there might be some food scarcity, if you're losing 25% of it, then yeah,

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that is potentially somebody who might not be getting the nutrients they need in order just to

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thrive. Being a human. Absolutely. Most of the antimicrobial agents that are added to food

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don't fully inactivate the microbial populations, but they inhibit their growth. So they make the

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environment for that microbe not very pleasing or accommodating to grow more. So they want to reduce

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the development of microorganisms. And so that's how that works. Yeah. This reminds me of a,

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doesn't Neosporin work that way? It's an antimicrobial. So it stops the growth rather

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than actually kills the bacteria. And there are drugs in that, so they can be bacteriostatic,

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and that's that kind of an antibiotic, or they can be bactericidal where they actually kill the

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organism. I believe it is a bacteriostatic. Okay. So this is kind of stopping the growth.

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It kind of slows it down, but it doesn't eliminate it completely and stuff. But it keeps it so that

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it's not going to cause a problem for the length of the shelf life of the food products.

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There are different, so antimicrobial activity is different for different food types. That makes

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sense. Some may have more oils and fats than others. Some may be more prone to oxidation.

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So what preservative goes in foods is assessed item by item. So it's not like a one size fits

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all preservative. So that's why when you read your labels on your food, you'll see different things

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as preservatives in different foods. Gotcha. So there might be a food that is maybe more acidic

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than another food, or it might be a food that has maybe more oxygen species inside of it,

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which is going to promote more bacterial growth. You might want to add more antioxidants to one

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and then maybe another type of preservative to another. Right. Okay. And that's a great point

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too. So the food pH and acidity, they play a big role in the types of microorganisms that can

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survive. Bacteria grow in a more alkaline or a higher pH environment, and the yeast and molds

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grow in a lower pH environment. But so then our preservatives are going to be different

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and they're going to act differently based on pH as well too. So like Josh said, we can increase

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the acidity of food to help prevent microbial growth since especially bacteria like to live in

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a more basic environment or a more alkaline environment. So if we lower the pH and make it

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more acidic, then they can't grow as much. Gotcha. And just to keep in mind too, so we might add an

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acid to a certain type of food. I think a nitrite is one of those examples, adding those to like

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certain types of meats. But like you said, they're at such low levels that they probably matter to

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bacterial growth, but we might not be able to perceive them as much as humans were much bigger

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than bacteria. So just to give a context for this, this is a weird tangent, but like you have 10

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times as many bacterial cells inside of your own body than you have your normal cells. So you have

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about 10 trillion cells in your body and about a hundred trillion microorganisms in your body.

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But if you clumped all of those microorganisms together, like if you took them all from all

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over your body and you clump them together, that'd be as much as like it would just weigh

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three pounds. Like it's like another organ. So like I think it's hard to imagine how tiny these

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things are. So a little bit can go a long way because we're talking about very different scales

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here. Like these things are much smaller than just your normal human cells. So just to keep in mind,

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yeah, these bacterial, and also you want to stop them early from colonizing and congregating.

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So you're really trying to prevent them from growing. And so when you can see them in visible

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spots, like you've probably seen yeast on bread or you smell your milk going off, that's when they

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become large enough to cause a problem. So you're trying to stop basically from them from colonizing.

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So great. So like Joshua alluded to, the most effective antimicrobial is an acid.

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And so a couple of kinds of acids, they're weak lipophilic organic acids. So that means they're

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weak acids, but they like fat. So that's what lipid, you know, lipid means fat. So things that

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you may see on your label that are weak lipophilic organic acids are things like sorbate, benzoate,

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or propionate. And they work best at a pH of less than 5.5. So they're going to be heading more

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towards the acidic level. Yeah. So the lower the number, the more acidic, just to let people know.

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Yes. We also have inorganic acids. And so we see our sulfites and our nitrites that are they,

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and they are multifunctional preservatives. They can act both as an antimicrobial and an antioxidant.

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And you see a lot of them in drinks. They will, so sulfites will inhibit yeast and spoilage,

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and also in dehydrated fruits and vegetables. They are also effective against gram negative

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bacteria. So they're going to be used in meat to inhibit those, the growth of those, those bacteria.

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But interestingly, sulfites can't, they can get degraded kind of rapidly. So that's why sometimes

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you'll see when you're looking at the

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sulfites, they can get degraded more rapidly. So that's why sometimes you'll see probably your,

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like for example, like ground beef doesn't have as long of a, of a like sell-by date than chicken,

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you know, because I think that, yeah, maybe it's because I didn't look into this, but I'm like

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that the sulfites can be degraded more rapidly so that they get converted to a sulfate and then it

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loses its antimicrobial activity. So again, so make sure that you look at your dates, keep your food

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refrigerated and or put in the freezer if you can't use it by the day. Actually caveat to that,

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I'm not, cause I know I've sent you this article before and, and it's like the best buy date has

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nothing to do with spoilage. Okay. So this is a common myth. We're going to squash it now. It is

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all having to do with food quality. So whenever you see a best buy date, that is a date that has been

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set to say it is best to use by this date or the food item might go off. Meaning it's not going to

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be as palatable as it normally is. It has nothing to do with the fact that there might be something

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to do with being pathogenic or like a bacteria growing on there. There might be some rancidity,

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like we talked about earlier, but the idea that this is good or you're going to get sick from it

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is a common misconception. The best way to check to see if you're going to get sick from it is

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honestly the smell test. Like if it smells off, if it smells like there's yeast or there's fungus

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or there's bacteria, then that's the best way to tell. But in terms of what mom is saying,

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I think with something like the sulfites, if it's just preserving its look or if it's preserving

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its basically lack of rancidity, then yes, it is the best buy date, but you can actually eat things

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well beyond the best buy date and it still be not harmful to you. It just might not look or taste as

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good as it did when it was first packaged. Thank you for correcting me on that. You have told me

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that before. I apologize. You don't remember everything I tell you. Well, I do actually.

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Well, anyway, so there we go. There we go. I forgot many things she taught me when I was young too.

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Yeah. Yeah. So the other thing that's common to be used as an antimicrobial, as more acidic,

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well, it's kind of as another antimicrobial in food is parabens. And so they have a wider pH range.

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So they are actually more active at a basic. They can work at an acidic level, but they can work at

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a basic level as well too. So you're going to see them. So they, you'll see a bunch of different,

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you'll see a lot of different types of parabens, methylperebin, propylperebin. There's a lot of

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different kinds of them. And again, like I said, they've got a wide pH range to be effective as

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an antimicrobial. A lot of times you'll see them in cakes or pastries, icings, fillings, soft drinks,

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creams, pastes, jams and jellies, olives, pickles and syrups. The longer chained parabens have

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better antimicrobial activity, but they are less water soluble. So while the shorter chained

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parabens are usually the ones that are found in foods. So while you could, if you have, if you

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can have a longer chain, parabens, great. But they, again, a lot of foods have oils in them and stuff.

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And so then they're, I'm sorry, a lot of foods have water in them. So if they're not soluble in

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the water, then they're not going to work as well. So they are also more effective against yeast and

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mold, but they're less active against bacteria, especially gram-negative bacteria. And that makes

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sense because they're larger molecules and fungus are just bigger organisms than bacteria. And also

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like, especially at a pH of eight, you're tackling more the fungus and molds than you are bacteria

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in this case. Also, Dr. Seltzer didn't put this here, but next to the things that are in like

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the jams and the jellies and olives and pickles, they're very small percentages, like 0.03%,

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0.1%. I assume that's by weight. Like it's what the weighted is. So very small amounts.

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Very, very small amounts. If you have a jar of olives and it's a gram, it is 0.1%

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of that jar, meaning that is going to be 0.01 grams of this substance, if you're eating the

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whole jar of olives. So that would be 10 milligrams. Very small. Very small amount. Now, obviously,

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you need to figure out what the actual dose is that's going to be benign versus harmful.

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And that's what the FDA has done. They've looked at those. They've figured out what those safe

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values are for these preservatives to go with. Yeah. It's a shame that they're not on the

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ingredients labels most of the time, like the weighted percentages, because it looks like it's

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just equal ingredients. I think a lot of people see these names and they look like scary chemicals,

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especially if you're not familiar with them. But if you don't see the relatively low dosage

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or understand what they are, then it can be a little unnerving if you're seeing them on the

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back of a little one. That's a great point. That's a great point. The other thing too is that

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you can combine, and that's why we don't just have maybe one acid as a food preservative,

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because you can combine different ones at much lower concentrations. So you'll get an

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antimicrobial effect, but at lower concentrations and lower levels of these preservatives as well.

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Mixing and matching. Mixing and matching. So what I just talked to you about now were synthetic

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preservatives, but there are also natural antimicrobial preservatives. So we've got,

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first of all, plant-derived antimicrobial preservatives. And those are the first ones,

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well, the ones that are mostly that I'm going to mention are called essential oils.

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They have both antibacterial and antifungal properties. And actually, they've been used

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naturally for centuries in food products because they just happen in nature and they have a low

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risk of having the microorganism develop resistance to them. But they are, that word that Joshua

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mentioned earlier, hydrophobic. They don't like water, so they may not work very well in food

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with high water content. I'm sorry. High fat content. High fat content. So they might work

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well in those like the pastry things where there's a lot of maybe like pre-made pie crusts or something

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like that, but not in something like a pickle jar where it's just primarily just water and vinegar.

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Right. Right. So if they, you know, they could, so anyway, so the next thing is going to be your

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animal-derived antimicrobials. The first one is called lysozyme. And it's actually an enzyme

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that's naturally present in eggs as well as mammalian milk. Now it's bacteriolytic. We talked

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about that word before. So that means it's going to inhibit growth of the bacteria, but it's not

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going to kill the bacteria. But it helps reduce its activity by compromising specifically gram-positive

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bacterial cell walls. And so it's used often as a preservative for meat, fish, milk, dairy products,

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fruits, and vegetables. So you may see that on your label. That's awesome. Yeah, just a fun little

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fact. I just love fun. So lysozyme is found in an organelle, which is a thing inside of your cell.

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It's called a lysosome. And what lysosomes are meant there to do is that if there's any type of

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leftover material inside of your cell, it's kind of getting in the way. It's a lot of clutter. Think

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of it like spring cleaning. It'll go around and chomp it up into individual little bits so that

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your cell can recycle the individual subunits of things, things like amino acids or sugars or blah,

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blah, blah. So it can build from that and expel the waste. And a lot of this times, it can be

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bacteria that actually, that it'll chop up the cell wall of a bacteria. What Ma mentioned is a gram

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positive. That means that its cell wall is made of something called peptidoglycan. And so to cut that

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all up, to basically get rid of that bacteria, you can use this enzyme to basically chop up that

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bacteria into its component part. So basically reusing what nature has already given us is this

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amazing enzyme that's inside of this organelle to already degrade the things that we would degrade

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inside of our own body. So you can just do it in really high concentrations and then just apply it.

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So really cool. Thank you for that very fun fact. You're welcome. So another animal derived

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antimicrobial is called lactoferrin. It's also present in naturally in mammalian milk. So in

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milk of mammals, we're mammals and there are other animals that are animals as well too. So

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it has great antimicrobial activity against bacteria, fungi, yeast and viruses. It's actually a

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chelating agent. And what that means is it targets the iron that microbes will use to reproduce. And

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so if you limit their iron, then you're going to then decrease the bacterial counts and growth.

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Gotcha. So it's almost like being a competitor. It's like, I'm going to take that iron from you

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because it has a stronger affinity for the iron than the bacteria. It's like basically a stronger

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magnet. That's really cool. Yeah. So you'll see this type of a preservative in infant formula,

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meat, wine and dairy. And it's also, you'll see it sometimes in skincare products and oral care

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products as well. So another one that you'll see is an animal derived antimicrobial is called

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chitosan. And you get it from crust crustacean shells or the cell wall of aspergillus is a

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bacteria fungus. Oh, I don't know. I can't remember. Let's find out real quick. Let me

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find out really quick. Oh, bother. Sorry. This is the power of editing.

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It's a mold. So you can get, am I, I don't matter. Okay. Okay. Another animal derived

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antimicrobial is called chitosan. And you get it either from crustacean shells. So like crabs,

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you know, or the cell wall of aspergillus Niger, which is a mold. And so this, this particular

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antimicrobial has activity against spoilage, yeast and bacteria, but it's insoluble at neutral or

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high pH. So you're going to use it in more acidic things. So you're going to use it in beverages. So

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you think about sodas and stuff like that are going to have lower pHs and stuff. So yeah,

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things that you would use like the soul fights for. Yeah. And the fighting against bacteria.

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That's really cool. And then the third area of natural antimicrobials is bacterial derived. So

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you've got bacteria oceans, which have, they're an antibacterial peptide and they're produced by

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lactic acid bacteria. And so they have a broad range of antimicrobial properties, but the only

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one that we, that's actually been used in food or permitted in food is one called nice in,

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and it's used primarily in table olives, cheeses, and meat products. And then the other bacterial

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derived antimicrobial is called Natomycin and it's another antibiotic. It's produced by fermenting

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streptomyces and it controls fungal growth. So it doesn't have any activity against bacteria and

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viruses, but it has low solubility and water. So you're going to use it. You're going to see it

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used primarily as a surface preservative for meat and cheese products. That's amazing. I'm so, I mean,

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I would hate to be a bacteria. It seems like you have so many enemies. Yes.

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But we want those enemies. So, yeah.

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But you have to have so many tools to fight against them. And it's really neat that we've,

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you know, kind of isolated certain tools that they've used against some of their natural,

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you know, competitors, either it be another bacteria or a fungus to be able to help us

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preserve some of our food. It's really neat. Yeah. So that's kind of, and there's probably

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more to say about antimicrobials, but we're going to switch gears now and we're going to talk about

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antioxidants that are used in food. And again, remember, oxidative reactions can produce

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substances that are going to affect the food flavor, color, odor, shelf life, and consumer

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acceptance. So oxidative reactions are going to shorten the lifespan of food products pretty,

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pretty much and stuff. So what, what are ways that we can, what are antioxidants that can be used to

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help minimize this? One of the things is that you can protect the, protect food substances from heat

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and light by what we call oxidation, but that would be like time consuming and probably not

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real practical for us to try to be always putting our food away from heat and light and stuff.

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So there's some more practical ways to minimize oxidation. I think that I've got, I think that's

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a mistake. I don't think it's oxidation. I'm going to have to look that up again, Pop, you know,

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because it doesn't make sense for it to say that it's oxidative reactions that we want to avoid.

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And then we're telling me oxidation to fix it. So I've got to look that up again. I think I made a

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mistake. Okay. Okay. Because we want to minimize oxidation. And so oxidation is going, antioxidants

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are used to reduce food deterioration, reinsidity and discoloration. So the two most common food

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oxidative problems are what we call enzymatic browning and then lipid reinsidity. Okay. So

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anybody's had fruit. I mean, I just had an avocado this morning and there was a little

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bit of browning on it. So that's the bi-product. So it's an enzymatic, it's an oxidative, it's an

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oxidation and there's phenolic compounds in these products. And so it's this thing called polyphenol

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oxidase or PPO. So it's in fruits and vegetables. And so that's what it gets oxidized and that's

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why it turns brown. So it's called PPO. PPO. Polyphenol oxidase. Polyphenol oxidase. You'll see

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it also in ready to use salads. You know, they, after they'll, you know, they'd stay a few days

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and then they don't get so good or, or fresh cut fruit, you know, apples are, you know, so,

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and then the other one is lipid reinsidity so that you get your, your unsaturated fatty acids in your

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food. In fact, containing foods can decompensate. So those are the two main ways that we're going

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to use antioxidants to prevent those actions. So the available antioxidants that we have are,

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first of all, enzymatic browning inhibitors. So they're going to inhibit that PPO. And so the

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common ones that are used are ascorbic acid, citric acid, and sodium chloride. So you think

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about sprinkling things on apples to prevent it. And you think about using a lemon or a lime,

379
00:39:46,100 --> 00:39:53,060
that's citric acid. So that's why it's going to help with that enzymatic browning process.

380
00:39:53,060 --> 00:39:59,780
Yes. That's not vitamin C. Okay. There we go. I thought so. Yes. All right. So you're sprinkling

381
00:39:59,780 --> 00:40:06,020
either vitamin C, the acid that you normally find in citrus fruits or sodium chloride, which

382
00:40:06,580 --> 00:40:12,340
it's not, that's not table salt. That's sodium chloride. So it's like, it's CLO, right? I think

383
00:40:12,340 --> 00:40:20,740
it has an oxygen on it. Right. And it's going to be that. Yeah. Or NAO. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah.

384
00:40:20,740 --> 00:40:24,740
Forgot my chemistry. But it's got to have a CLN there too, because it's got chloride on it. Maybe

385
00:40:24,740 --> 00:40:31,940
it has more than one oxygen anyway. So then we've got lipidine antioxidants. And so they are going,

386
00:40:31,940 --> 00:40:39,620
again, we want to keep the food odor, color, texture, and flavor to be preserved. So

387
00:40:41,140 --> 00:40:49,220
ways that oxidative reinsidity happen is you're going to get either auto-oxidation. So it

388
00:40:49,220 --> 00:40:55,700
oxidizes itself or you'll get it due to light or you'll get it due to heat. So they, they're

389
00:40:55,700 --> 00:41:00,740
going to affect the double bonds of unsaturated fatty acids. So then when that happens, you get

390
00:41:00,740 --> 00:41:06,100
then free radicals developed. So then you're going to get these antioxidants, these lipid

391
00:41:06,100 --> 00:41:11,540
antioxidants that serve as that free radical scavenger. So they're going to look for those.

392
00:41:11,540 --> 00:41:19,060
A free radical is just another word for an oxygen molecule or atom that has unbounded from the

393
00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:28,180
large lipid. So because it is unbounded and oxygen has a electronegativity attached to it, it just

394
00:41:28,180 --> 00:41:32,900
wants to attach to a lot of things. And a lot of times that that's what we call oxidation. And it's

395
00:41:32,900 --> 00:41:38,420
going to essentially attach, potentially become that PPO, that polyphenol oxidase that we talked

396
00:41:38,420 --> 00:41:45,700
about earlier. But if you have an antioxidant and it has a large affinity for that free radical,

397
00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:50,500
it can bind to it and basically hold it in place so that oxygen can't go and do the thing that it

398
00:41:50,500 --> 00:41:55,700
was going to do. So you're essentially just trying to catch something that potentially do damage,

399
00:41:55,700 --> 00:41:59,940
almost like a fly that's in your house. And then you're essentially wanting to either catch it or

400
00:41:59,940 --> 00:42:06,500
swat it before it is able to go and do the things that it does. So excellent, excellent. So we have

401
00:42:06,500 --> 00:42:12,420
some common lipid antioxidants, including nitrites, which we've always talked about as being an

402
00:42:12,420 --> 00:42:19,060
anti microbial as well. So fights and then we've got these synthetic phenolic compounds called

403
00:42:19,060 --> 00:42:25,460
SPC. Since these are going to be the things that you probably see a lot of the abbreviations BHT,

404
00:42:25,460 --> 00:42:31,300
BHA, their butylated things. And I don't need to mean they're large scientific names that we

405
00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:38,100
don't really necessarily need. But these these synthetic phenolic compounds, whether they're

406
00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:47,540
butylated hydroxy toluene, butylated hydroxy anisole, and tert-butyl hydroquinone. Those

407
00:42:47,540 --> 00:42:52,420
are the common ones. And they're most commonly used in many foods that contain lipids and fats.

408
00:42:52,420 --> 00:42:57,860
They're very stable at high temperatures and they can even retain their antioxidant functions after

409
00:42:57,860 --> 00:43:08,020
they're baked or fried. Yeah, you're often trading size for I guess like abundance because like

410
00:43:08,580 --> 00:43:14,100
nitrite and sulfide are very small molecules. It's a sulfur attached with three oxygen molecules and

411
00:43:14,100 --> 00:43:19,140
nitrite is the same with nitrogen. But with these large ones, you think about it's just

412
00:43:19,140 --> 00:43:23,780
harder to break things down to other larger and more complicated with heat and light. They just

413
00:43:23,780 --> 00:43:28,900
have more chemical bonds holding them together. So they're essentially just going to have they're

414
00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:33,220
going to make it have a longer shelf life because even with these smaller ones, they're going to

415
00:43:33,220 --> 00:43:37,060
break down easier just because they have less chemical bonds. So you just want larger molecules

416
00:43:37,060 --> 00:43:41,620
sometimes if you're going to have something last really or you want them to last a long time.

417
00:43:41,620 --> 00:43:47,060
So that's a great point. So well, like we talked about with antimicrobials, there are also some

418
00:43:47,060 --> 00:43:53,540
natural antioxidants. So again, remember we want to inhibit oxidation. So we want things to act

419
00:43:53,540 --> 00:44:00,260
like either a key chelating agent or a free radical scavenger. So the most common natural

420
00:44:00,260 --> 00:44:06,660
antioxidants are the alpha talcopheral that's found in vitamin E. Or there's some phenolic

421
00:44:06,660 --> 00:44:12,260
acids that are commonly found in some herbs and spices such as rosemary, basil, oregano, sage,

422
00:44:12,260 --> 00:44:19,060
cinnamon, nutmeg, and cumin. Or we have things that are called flavonoids and carotenoids as well too

423
00:44:19,060 --> 00:44:26,500
that act as natural antioxidants. And then sometimes we'll see more of these used because

424
00:44:26,500 --> 00:44:31,940
there's a desire for more natural products in food as well as there have been some reports

425
00:44:31,940 --> 00:44:38,100
of some allergic reactions to those synthetic phenolic compounds. So it's a way to avoid

426
00:44:39,380 --> 00:44:43,780
a potential allergic reaction in somebody who might have one. Not everybody, but just there's

427
00:44:43,780 --> 00:44:48,900
going to be a... Yeah. And we'll get into that in a little bit. Yeah. Because also just the

428
00:44:48,900 --> 00:44:54,020
plant a flag here is like things that are in nature have been in here for a very long time.

429
00:44:54,660 --> 00:45:00,260
Therefore, the logic there is like organisms have found a way to break those down easier.

430
00:45:00,260 --> 00:45:05,700
Whereas something has synthetic could potentially live in a system for a very long time because

431
00:45:05,700 --> 00:45:09,620
your body doesn't have the enzyme to break it down. So I think there's obviously a fear of like,

432
00:45:09,620 --> 00:45:15,620
what if this stays in my body for a really long time? Now, just as a caveat, your body has a lot

433
00:45:15,620 --> 00:45:20,820
of things, especially large stomach acid that is able to break down big things and just really,

434
00:45:20,820 --> 00:45:24,740
really easily. Just not many things can survive your stomach down to the rest of your body.

435
00:45:25,380 --> 00:45:30,420
Also just planning a flag here, just because something is natural doesn't mean that it's safe.

436
00:45:30,420 --> 00:45:37,780
It just means that it's from nature. Things like cyanide, things like arsenic are very natural,

437
00:45:37,780 --> 00:45:43,700
but in high enough doses, they can cause a lot of trouble for somebody. And then there are things

438
00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:51,140
that are synthetic at low doses that are just not harmful because they're at such a low dose

439
00:45:51,140 --> 00:45:56,660
that your body knows what to do with them. So just want to plan a flag there of, I think there is

440
00:45:56,660 --> 00:46:01,460
this kind of movement now that natural is better. And sometimes it is, but sometimes it's not. I

441
00:46:01,460 --> 00:46:06,820
don't think we can lump things into two categories that easily and get to this categorical statement

442
00:46:06,820 --> 00:46:10,900
because it's natural, it's good. There are certain things about natural things that are good

443
00:46:10,900 --> 00:46:16,340
and vice versa with synthetic, but just like most things in life, everything is a trade off.

444
00:46:16,340 --> 00:46:19,620
Do you want more natural things? You're probably going to have a shorter shelf life.

445
00:46:19,620 --> 00:46:20,260
And pay more.

446
00:46:20,260 --> 00:46:26,340
And pay more. And also it's going to cause farmers more of a headache and you're passing that cost

447
00:46:26,340 --> 00:46:31,940
onto somebody else. But if you have synthetics, longer shelf life, but maybe potentially if you're

448
00:46:31,940 --> 00:46:35,940
in a sensitive population, it could cause some harm. So it really does depend on the individual

449
00:46:35,940 --> 00:46:38,340
and we're going to talk about that in just a moment.

450
00:46:38,340 --> 00:46:47,620
Okay. All right. So that was talking about food preservatives. So let's switch gears and let's

451
00:46:47,620 --> 00:46:51,140
talk about pharmaceutical preservatives. And there's some similarities and there's a few

452
00:46:51,140 --> 00:46:59,860
differences as well too. So again, medications also need to have preservatives because you don't want

453
00:46:59,860 --> 00:47:06,660
to have microbial growth in your medications so that you don't get a severe infection when you

454
00:47:06,660 --> 00:47:12,820
ingest it or have it administered to you. So they help to maintain product sterility.

455
00:47:12,820 --> 00:47:17,460
And they're going to have different types of medication products. We're not just talking about

456
00:47:17,460 --> 00:47:22,420
tablets. We're going to talk about that in a minute. We're talking about your oral liquids

457
00:47:22,420 --> 00:47:32,580
or your injectable medications or topical preparations because they're in a more liquid

458
00:47:32,580 --> 00:47:33,220
type of a form.

459
00:47:33,220 --> 00:47:36,820
So things like NyQuil or insulin or things like that.

460
00:47:36,820 --> 00:47:43,540
Or antibiotics that you have to get in the hospital or things like that. So this was really

461
00:47:43,540 --> 00:47:48,180
interesting is when you think about it, because again, you're wanting to keep the patient safe

462
00:47:48,180 --> 00:47:52,500
because they're already not well because they need a medication. And the last thing you want to do is

463
00:47:52,500 --> 00:48:01,540
inject a microbe and make them have some sort of a severe infection. So there's lots of factors

464
00:48:01,540 --> 00:48:04,660
that are considered when you select a preservative.

465
00:48:04,660 --> 00:48:07,700
And we talked about some of these already. First of all, concentration.

466
00:48:08,420 --> 00:48:17,460
Then solubility. How well will it mix in that particular medication that you're using it in?

467
00:48:17,460 --> 00:48:25,460
Or the pH, so the acidity or alkalinity of that particular preservative. Stability. How long will

468
00:48:25,460 --> 00:48:30,020
it last? Does it just separate as soon as you put it in there? That's not going to be used very well.

469
00:48:30,020 --> 00:48:36,020
Compatibility. You want to make sure it's not toxic. You want it to be inexpensive. Oh my gosh,

470
00:48:36,020 --> 00:48:41,220
if the preservative costs three times as much as the medication, that's not going to go well.

471
00:48:41,220 --> 00:48:47,620
So you want to, again, we want it to be, we don't want it to affect the taste or the odor

472
00:48:47,620 --> 00:48:53,220
or the color of the medication. And we want to make sure it has activity against microbes.

473
00:48:53,220 --> 00:48:57,860
And that also that it doesn't affect the product container, that it doesn't stick to the product

474
00:48:57,860 --> 00:49:03,300
container so that then it's going to cause somehow the product to break down because of the fact that

475
00:49:03,300 --> 00:49:08,980
it's sealed up against the prescription bottle or the plastic bottle that it's contained in.

476
00:49:09,860 --> 00:49:15,380
So we've already talked about the fact that bacteria grow better in a more alkaline environment

477
00:49:15,380 --> 00:49:21,220
with molds and yeast favoring a more acidic environment. So most microorganisms grow the

478
00:49:21,220 --> 00:49:27,300
best between a pH of three and nine. So our antimicrobials are going to kind of operate

479
00:49:27,300 --> 00:49:33,940
in that with those parameters in mind. Again, we talked about the fact that we want to use

480
00:49:33,940 --> 00:49:38,660
the lowest effective concentration of an antimicrobial and it's got to be a proven

481
00:49:38,660 --> 00:49:44,660
effective against that targeted antimicrobial. Some of our pharmaceutical products and specifically

482
00:49:44,660 --> 00:49:50,420
let's think about our ophthalmics. If anybody uses contact lens solution or has to use eye drops

483
00:49:50,420 --> 00:49:55,460
or if you do need an injectable, there are so many more injectables that are available now.

484
00:49:55,460 --> 00:50:00,820
Insulin was one that Joshua talked about. There's so many varieties of insulin. There are now some

485
00:50:00,820 --> 00:50:06,580
of those diabetes medications that are in pens. So they're injectables as well too.

486
00:50:06,580 --> 00:50:08,740
Yeah, things like go Zimbik as well.

487
00:50:08,740 --> 00:50:16,820
Yes. So things that are more in an injectable or ophthalmic, those products get sterilized

488
00:50:16,820 --> 00:50:26,340
first. But then some of them will also need a preservative, especially if they have a longer

489
00:50:26,340 --> 00:50:32,820
storage plan or they're a multi-use container. Think about that. So if you've got a one and done

490
00:50:32,820 --> 00:50:37,780
eye drop, if it's just in a little tiny bottle or your injectable is a one and done, that means

491
00:50:37,780 --> 00:50:43,060
it's only for one patient, then you might not see preservatives in those because you're not going to

492
00:50:43,060 --> 00:50:48,180
be keep punching it or keep using the thing over and over. But the more you use something like

493
00:50:48,180 --> 00:50:56,340
that, the more microbes can get input into that bottle. So the need for preservatives in those

494
00:50:56,340 --> 00:51:06,420
multi-use containers. So that's important. But also non-sterile pharmaceutical preparations

495
00:51:06,420 --> 00:51:12,260
can be susceptible to microbial growth. So we will see antimicrobial preservatives in

496
00:51:12,260 --> 00:51:18,020
them as well. So we're thinking the ones that are going to be most susceptible to microbes growing

497
00:51:18,020 --> 00:51:23,300
in them are going to be aqueous preparations so that more water-based preparations like syrups

498
00:51:23,780 --> 00:51:34,980
or emulsion suspensions, Nyquil or children's Tylenol or things like that. Or also your semi-solid

499
00:51:34,980 --> 00:51:41,220
preparations like creams and gels, Volt-Harin gel, for example, for arthritis or your

500
00:51:41,220 --> 00:51:48,900
oral inhalation. So patients with asthma, or there's such a variety of oral inhalations for

501
00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:55,940
that. Or what we call lozenges, lozenges are cough drops, things for a sore throat. And there's

502
00:51:55,940 --> 00:52:01,620
one dosage form called a troche and there's really, I think, just one medication that uses

503
00:52:01,620 --> 00:52:07,380
that dosage form and it's for oral fungus in your mouth, oral candida in your mouth so that you can

504
00:52:07,380 --> 00:52:12,980
suck on this thing and it's called a troche and it'll kill the yeast in your mouth and stuff.

505
00:52:12,980 --> 00:52:14,500
Wow, that's really cool.

506
00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:23,940
So with those, then the microbes will target that water area and especially with an emulsion.

507
00:52:23,940 --> 00:52:29,780
Emulsions are kind of like the salad dressing thing. So there's a couple of things that you'll

508
00:52:29,780 --> 00:52:35,300
see in medicine. One is called intralipid and it's a fat emulsion that you use in a

509
00:52:35,300 --> 00:52:41,140
in a, they call it parenteral nutrition. And so when people are really sick and they can't eat,

510
00:52:41,140 --> 00:52:46,420
they've got to get their nutrients. So they've got to get fats as well as other nutrients. And so,

511
00:52:46,420 --> 00:52:51,460
but this is a white milky liquid and so it's an emulsion and so you want to make sure it stays

512
00:52:51,460 --> 00:52:57,940
mixed. And then there's also a paint or an anesthetic called Dippervan and it's made to

513
00:52:57,940 --> 00:53:03,860
help to make people fall asleep. It's also this milky thing. And so if it separates the bacteria

514
00:53:03,860 --> 00:53:12,580
are more likely to grow in the water phase. So you're going to want to make sure that your

515
00:53:12,580 --> 00:53:18,100
preservatives target the water phase of these emulsions. So very interesting. I thought it was

516
00:53:18,100 --> 00:53:24,340
very interesting. So, but again, so you're going to see, you're going to, you want those

517
00:53:25,060 --> 00:53:31,140
antimicrobials to be in these agents to keep that bacteria and yeast and mold from growing in those

518
00:53:31,140 --> 00:53:38,500
particular products. Our products that have like higher alcohol content, because like the liquid

519
00:53:38,500 --> 00:53:44,260
Nyquil that has, it may not have reached this, it might have reached this alcohol content,

520
00:53:44,260 --> 00:53:52,020
but if you have a 15% alcohol content in an acidic media or an 18% alcohol content in an alkaline or

521
00:53:52,020 --> 00:53:56,500
basic media, then you may not necessarily need a preservative added because the alcohol is going

522
00:53:56,500 --> 00:54:03,060
to is, is kind of a preservative in and of itself. But so alcohol containing products may or may not

523
00:54:03,060 --> 00:54:08,100
need a preservative added to that depending on their concentration. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

524
00:54:08,100 --> 00:54:15,060
I have fun. Another fun fact is like actually when beer was first being brewed, actually,

525
00:54:15,860 --> 00:54:22,100
you use yeast to brew beer and just another microorganism. And actually, anytime that the

526
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:30,020
alcohol content went above, it went above 2%. So 2% by volume, the yeast would die. It was basically

527
00:54:30,020 --> 00:54:37,060
became too toxic. If anyone's ever drinking beer, it can obviously go between like four to sometimes

528
00:54:37,060 --> 00:54:42,420
even 10%. So how did that happen? Well, we artificially selected for yeast that could survive

529
00:54:42,420 --> 00:54:48,900
those higher alcohol contents. And obviously due to natural, well, this is artificial selection, but

530
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:54,180
by selection, you could breed strains higher and higher and higher, which is obviously you can do

531
00:54:54,180 --> 00:55:00,820
that with wine as well. Wine obviously famously gets around the 15% range. So these things

532
00:55:00,820 --> 00:55:09,780
naturally will kill organisms at around that 2% area. But because of this selection, some of these

533
00:55:09,780 --> 00:55:16,020
organisms can survive in higher percentages. So which is why alcohol, yes, natural toxin to us

534
00:55:16,020 --> 00:55:25,060
as well as most other organisms. But it makes us feel good sometimes. Yes, sometimes maybe. So

535
00:55:26,100 --> 00:55:30,660
this is one thing that I didn't mention when we were talking about antimicrobials and the food

536
00:55:30,660 --> 00:55:37,060
aspect of our preservatives, but how on earth do antimicrobial preservatives work? So they're going

537
00:55:37,060 --> 00:55:44,020
to interfere with microbial growth, multiplication, and metabolism. And they can do that in a variety

538
00:55:44,020 --> 00:55:53,300
of ways. They can modify the permeability of the cell membrane. And so the cell content can leak

539
00:55:53,300 --> 00:56:03,220
out. Or you can break open the cytoplasm and cause it to leak out. You can cause the cytoplasm,

540
00:56:03,220 --> 00:56:08,100
which is that stuff inside the cell, it can all coagulate together. And so then the cell's going

541
00:56:08,100 --> 00:56:15,460
to die. Or you can interfere with a metabolic process in a cell. And so that that could,

542
00:56:15,460 --> 00:56:20,660
maybe the cell wall doesn't get made or something or enzymes don't get formed. And so then the cell's

543
00:56:20,660 --> 00:56:26,500
going to die. You can have also oxidation and hydrolysis processes as well too that will cause

544
00:56:26,500 --> 00:56:32,900
those bacteria, molds, or yeast to die. So those are kind of the mechanisms behind antimicrobials.

545
00:56:32,900 --> 00:56:39,140
Cool. So another thing that you're going to see in your medications, and it's primarily going to

546
00:56:39,140 --> 00:56:45,300
be in your tablets and capsules, are what we call excipients. So we're talking about preservatives,

547
00:56:45,300 --> 00:56:51,140
but I'm like, these are kind of preservatives, but they're kind of not. But I didn't want us to

548
00:56:51,140 --> 00:56:54,820
not talk about medications and preservatives without, because people would think, well,

549
00:56:54,820 --> 00:56:59,300
what about tablets kind of thing and stuff? So you are the mom on drugs. There you go.

550
00:56:59,300 --> 00:57:06,740
You know. So the definition of an excipient is an inactive ingredient added to a pharmaceutical

551
00:57:06,740 --> 00:57:13,540
preparation to sustain product stability as well as to give the desired color and taste.

552
00:57:14,900 --> 00:57:22,180
These excipients are considered what we call inert or inactive, but they could potentially become

553
00:57:22,180 --> 00:57:27,140
part of a chemical or physical interaction with a drug molecule. So you've got to be careful about

554
00:57:27,140 --> 00:57:32,340
how much and what you put into a tablet. So essentially on their own, they're inert,

555
00:57:32,340 --> 00:57:38,020
but in conjunction with something else, they might cause an inert. So you're going to,

556
00:57:38,020 --> 00:57:42,820
but the studies are going to be done with pharmaceutical companies before those products

557
00:57:42,820 --> 00:57:50,420
ever come to be, you know, so that we don't have, because if we get a tablet and it doesn't work,

558
00:57:50,420 --> 00:57:56,260
why are we going to buy the tablet? So we've got to make sure that that's dealt with. So here's a

559
00:57:56,260 --> 00:58:00,820
couple of reasons why we have excipients and I've given a little bit of them. So some of the times

560
00:58:00,820 --> 00:58:05,860
they're added as a solid or a liquid mass to the medication to kind of bulk up the medication,

561
00:58:06,420 --> 00:58:13,780
or they can help, help with the dissolution, help the tablet or the capsule to dissolve. So you

562
00:58:13,780 --> 00:58:18,180
increase it's what we call their bioavailability or how much of the medication actually gets into

563
00:58:18,180 --> 00:58:26,740
your body. It also can help optimize palatability or how tasty it is or just the texture of it. They

564
00:58:26,740 --> 00:58:32,980
can also aid in manufacturing process and they can also promote drug stability. So there's a couple

565
00:58:32,980 --> 00:58:38,180
of types of diluents that you'll see in towel. I mean, I'm sorry, there are a couple of types

566
00:58:38,180 --> 00:58:43,940
of excipients that you'll see in tablets. The first are what we call diluents and these are

567
00:58:43,940 --> 00:58:50,340
the bulking agents. So sometimes maybe there's just a little tiny bit of powder that's necessary to

568
00:58:50,340 --> 00:58:56,740
make a tablet, but you can't make a tablet out of that. So they'll add these bulking agents to be

569
00:58:56,740 --> 00:59:05,620
able to deliver the effective amount of medicine or medicinal powder that you need to get. Also

570
00:59:05,620 --> 00:59:12,340
sometimes you need binders and these help to bind things and put that tablet better together

571
00:59:12,340 --> 00:59:17,060
because they're all compressed very tightly and stuff and so that's going to help with that

572
00:59:17,060 --> 00:59:22,420
process. You also don't want them to fall apart just in the bottle. Now some tablets are designed

573
00:59:22,420 --> 00:59:28,420
to dissolve, but that's a different type of a tablet. So again, the next one is going to be

574
00:59:28,420 --> 00:59:33,860
disintegrants. So they're going to promote drug release. Then you've got some coating agents or

575
00:59:33,860 --> 00:59:37,860
some gliders. So they're going to help the tablets not to stick to the machinery while they're being

576
00:59:37,860 --> 00:59:44,740
made. I never thought about that. That'd be awful. Just like sticking everywhere. Yeah, like oh my

577
00:59:44,740 --> 00:59:50,500
gosh, like when I've made pie crusts and then I forget to flour my rolling pin and then it all

578
00:59:50,500 --> 00:59:55,620
sticks to the wax paper. I'm like, well, that was not smart. So yeah. So maybe some of these are

579
00:59:55,620 --> 00:59:59,940
also to help with the manufacturing process as well. That makes sense. Right. And then you also

580
00:59:59,940 --> 01:00:05,700
have coating agents for tablets that can mask taste or odor. They can prevent drug degradation

581
01:00:05,700 --> 01:00:10,100
or control drug release or improve drug appearance. And when I think about these, I think about the

582
01:00:10,900 --> 01:00:17,940
like interior, like there's some, maybe some ibuprofen that might be more coated so that

583
01:00:17,940 --> 01:00:23,540
you're going to slow the ability of the drugs to release from the tablet. And then it helps

584
01:00:24,100 --> 01:00:27,780
not affect your, hurt your stomach so much because those drugs can hurt you.

585
01:00:27,780 --> 01:00:32,660
Some have sometimes have stomach issues associated with them. You might say then,

586
01:00:32,660 --> 01:00:38,420
well, you talked about tablets, but what about capsules? Well, there are two types of capsules.

587
01:00:38,420 --> 01:00:43,780
I'm sure everybody's had one of these either a hard gelatin capsule or a soft gelatin capsule.

588
01:00:44,340 --> 01:00:49,860
And with hard gelatin capsules, they'll add actually freeze dried powders into them to help

589
01:00:49,860 --> 01:00:56,900
maintain a pH stability or with soft gelatin capsules. So actually either add oils to help

590
01:00:56,900 --> 01:01:03,380
solubilize lipid soluble drugs, or they'll add a surfactant in there to keep everything from

591
01:01:03,380 --> 01:01:07,060
sticking to the inside of the capsule. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

592
01:01:07,060 --> 01:01:10,660
Cause you want it to go all the way down. You want to stick anywhere. Right. Yeah.

593
01:01:10,660 --> 01:01:15,940
So while they're not actually, we're not talking about them either being an antioxidant or an

594
01:01:15,940 --> 01:01:23,780
antimicrobial, they're in medications to help, you know, preserve their stability to help them to be

595
01:01:23,780 --> 01:01:32,740
to be useful. So, and if when we post the material on the podcast, there is a list of some,

596
01:01:33,300 --> 01:01:37,220
I've got a table of common preservatives that are used in different pharmaceutical products.

597
01:01:37,220 --> 01:01:41,140
Yeah. And you can take a look at those. If you are looking at the bottles, you know, what's inside,

598
01:01:41,140 --> 01:01:48,260
I actually have a friend who is allergic to one of the coatings of either a tablet or the capsule.

599
01:01:48,260 --> 01:01:54,180
So she has to basically find tablets without that coating. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say allergic,

600
01:01:54,180 --> 01:01:59,700
maybe more sensitive. But it's like, we're going to get into sensitivity versus allergic in a little

601
01:01:59,700 --> 01:02:05,700
bit, because this is a great segue into, okay, we've talked about, we've spoken the glories of

602
01:02:05,700 --> 01:02:10,180
preservatives and how they can really keep things on the shelf for a really long time.

603
01:02:10,820 --> 01:02:16,900
But sometimes there can be some problems with them. And I think we're going to go into maybe

604
01:02:16,900 --> 01:02:22,820
sometimes what some of those problems can be. Obviously with any chemical that you put inside

605
01:02:22,820 --> 01:02:28,100
of your body, there could be an effect or no effect depending on the dose, depending on its

606
01:02:28,100 --> 01:02:32,340
chemical nature. So we're just going to talk about some of those things. There you go. So,

607
01:02:33,060 --> 01:02:38,500
so there can be some potential problems with preservatives and some, and we've, we may have

608
01:02:38,500 --> 01:02:46,260
seen these in the news or, you know, blogs or just articles and stuff over time. So there are

609
01:02:46,260 --> 01:02:50,740
sometimes, there are, there may be some preservatives that we need to minimize or avoid,

610
01:02:50,740 --> 01:02:56,260
and it just depends on the person. We talked about sodium nitrites and remember they're going to

611
01:02:56,260 --> 01:03:02,740
help to stabilize and color and flavor meat. And they do prevent harmful bacterial growth.

612
01:03:02,740 --> 01:03:09,220
But when meat is heated to high temperatures or it's combined with stomach acid, sometimes the

613
01:03:09,220 --> 01:03:16,420
sodium nitrite can produce nitrosamines. And there have been some relationships between nitrosamines

614
01:03:16,420 --> 01:03:21,380
and the development or an increased risk of developing pancreatic and colorectal cancer.

615
01:03:22,260 --> 01:03:29,540
So while it's, it's not a, it's not a, if then, I mean, it's not a absolute, you know, there's

616
01:03:29,540 --> 01:03:35,380
just enough evidence that's like, you want to just be careful, especially if you have a propensity of

617
01:03:35,380 --> 01:03:40,820
family history of these, or you're just concerned about that. Yeah. And just to answer that,

618
01:03:40,820 --> 01:03:47,460
because I'm going to, I'm going to basically be the, let's put this in context voice. This,

619
01:03:48,900 --> 01:03:54,740
when you cook any meat to a high temperature really has to do with cooking method, you're

620
01:03:54,740 --> 01:03:58,900
going to produce some of these chemicals that can be linked to these certain types of cancers.

621
01:03:58,900 --> 01:04:05,700
And a lot of these chemicals that provided the correlation to cancer were actually done in rodent

622
01:04:05,700 --> 01:04:12,900
studies. And like I said earlier in the podcast is like when you're doing rodent studies, it's not a

623
01:04:12,900 --> 01:04:20,820
similar correlation to when humans eat. So for example, when you, when they did control trials

624
01:04:20,820 --> 01:04:26,420
to feeding these to people and they just had them eat cooked meat. And then they noticed their

625
01:04:26,420 --> 01:04:32,740
nitrosamine levels go up a certain amount. But then when they had them eat that, like a quote

626
01:04:32,740 --> 01:04:38,740
unquote balanced diet with things like vegetables and fiber, actually the benefit of eating that

627
01:04:38,740 --> 01:04:43,620
meat with fiber actually decreased the amount that the nitrosamines entered into circulation.

628
01:04:44,660 --> 01:04:49,940
So it actually counteracted the effect. So this is very similar to the artificial sweetener

629
01:04:49,940 --> 01:04:56,500
cancer link, which my mom is laughing right now because she has a giant jug of diet Coke in front

630
01:04:56,500 --> 01:05:03,060
of her. But recently this has happened over the decades that artificial sweeteners kind of get a

631
01:05:03,060 --> 01:05:09,060
bad rap in terms of causing cancer. But, and I can't remember, I think it was the WHO. I can't

632
01:05:09,060 --> 01:05:16,100
remember which agency classified it as a cancer risk. The amount of diet Coke you would have to

633
01:05:16,100 --> 01:05:23,460
drink. I think it's like, it was either like 12 to 15 bottles a day to get the requisite dose for it

634
01:05:23,460 --> 01:05:29,700
to have any type of semblance of raising your risk for cancer. So a lot of times these agencies will

635
01:05:29,700 --> 01:05:34,660
err on the side of caution and they'll say, Hey, by the way, there is some, there's some, there's

636
01:05:34,660 --> 01:05:40,580
some signal here in this noise, but the amount of noise that you need to actually get a signal

637
01:05:40,580 --> 01:05:47,140
signal is pretty substantial. So I'm still pretty skeptical about this, even though that there's

638
01:05:47,140 --> 01:05:52,740
a slight elevation of the risk here. But if you want to limit the amount of, you know,

639
01:05:54,020 --> 01:05:59,700
risks that this does, don't just eat hot dogs and cook them on them, eat them in a balanced meal,

640
01:05:59,700 --> 01:06:04,180
like add some fiber, some vegetables to your diet, because that's going to help the nutritional

641
01:06:04,180 --> 01:06:08,340
process. Anyways, I'm off my soap box. No, I agree. I mean, like our deli meats, they're,

642
01:06:08,340 --> 01:06:15,700
they're high in nitrates, but I was, I agree with Josh as well too. If, if this was more of a,

643
01:06:16,260 --> 01:06:22,580
a health problem for us, we would see a whole lot more in the literature than we do. You know,

644
01:06:22,580 --> 01:06:28,820
I mean, this is, this is again, um, there's a potential and so people have to cover their risk,

645
01:06:28,820 --> 01:06:34,020
you know, by, by telling us this, but yeah, I think, and even if there were rising rates

646
01:06:34,020 --> 01:06:38,420
in these cancers, which I haven't looked at the epidemiology, I think the, the thing is,

647
01:06:38,420 --> 01:06:42,980
it's like, you want to look at the right smoking gun and the right smoking gun here might not be

648
01:06:42,980 --> 01:06:48,100
that the eating of these meats, it actually might be that people aren't eating enough vegetables.

649
01:06:48,100 --> 01:06:52,980
And so like, you want to make sure that you're targeting the right behavior. So that when you're

650
01:06:52,980 --> 01:06:58,260
giving the right advice to people, that that is actually going to cause the greatest change. I

651
01:06:58,260 --> 01:07:03,460
mean, I can tell so many people how many times that people said back, I think this is back in

652
01:07:03,460 --> 01:07:08,100
the early nineties, that it was recommended like, Oh, things with a lot of fat are the things that

653
01:07:08,100 --> 01:07:13,860
are making us fat. And so we removed most, we had fat free everything. And guess what? Obesity rates

654
01:07:13,860 --> 01:07:19,460
just continue to rise. And it's just because people just ate a lot of food. And the thing that we know

655
01:07:19,460 --> 01:07:25,460
now is that it's not really glucose. It's not really lipids. It's actually just the over

656
01:07:25,460 --> 01:07:31,780
consumption of a lot of calories. And actually the best way to maintain a healthy weight is to eat

657
01:07:31,780 --> 01:07:38,100
less of those things and exercise more. But we, we, we convince people based on certain types of

658
01:07:38,100 --> 01:07:43,220
erroneous data that by eating this much fat, and if you replace it with something else, you're going

659
01:07:43,220 --> 01:07:49,060
to be fine. And it just wasn't, it wasn't good advice, unfortunately. And it led to people

660
01:07:49,060 --> 01:07:53,540
getting this false idea that they could just eat as many fat free things that they wanted and they

661
01:07:53,540 --> 01:08:00,180
would be okay. And it's just not true. So I'm really key on giving, getting the right smoking

662
01:08:00,180 --> 01:08:05,460
gun because when you send people down the wrong path for the wrong reason, it can kind of, it takes

663
01:08:05,460 --> 01:08:11,060
time to drag people back to square one. And especially with public health messaging, it just

664
01:08:11,060 --> 01:08:15,700
takes a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, all right, I'm off. We can talk about sulfites now.

665
01:08:15,700 --> 01:08:20,900
You're good. So remember we also talked about sulfites, that they're weak acids and they're

666
01:08:20,900 --> 01:08:27,780
used for antimicrobial activity. In some patients, they may have, they may cause an allergic reaction,

667
01:08:27,780 --> 01:08:34,740
especially in patients with asthma. So you just want to make sure that you, you know, you're going

668
01:08:34,740 --> 01:08:40,180
to know if that's you and stuff. And so you're going to have to look at those and stuff. So

669
01:08:41,380 --> 01:08:45,620
you're just going to look for labels and avoid products if they have asthma, if you have an

670
01:08:45,620 --> 01:08:50,340
asthma issue and stuff. So yeah, I looked a bit at the epidemiology of this. It says about around

671
01:08:50,340 --> 01:08:56,660
500,000 individuals or less than 0.05% of the population could potentially be afflicted by

672
01:08:56,660 --> 01:09:02,580
this sensitivity. So like mom said, you're just going to have to do a bit of detective work after

673
01:09:02,580 --> 01:09:06,820
you eat things and you start feeling a bit uncomfortable. It could be the sulfites. I would

674
01:09:06,820 --> 01:09:11,700
compare this very similarly to like, a lot of sulfites have actually been banned from a lot of

675
01:09:11,700 --> 01:09:17,060
different food products now, because it's very similar to like, we can't eat peanuts on airplanes,

676
01:09:17,060 --> 01:09:21,780
because there are people who just have this very severe allergic reaction to any form of peanut.

677
01:09:21,780 --> 01:09:26,580
So it's basically better safe than sorry. But I would say it affects a very small number of people.

678
01:09:26,580 --> 01:09:34,420
So you can still find sulfites in certain things. But I would say you, on average, you probably won't

679
01:09:34,420 --> 01:09:41,060
be that person. But if you are, yeah, keep mindful of those labels. Yeah. So the next one to talk

680
01:09:41,060 --> 01:09:44,900
about are what we call trans fats. And this kind of ties into what Joshua was just talking about as

681
01:09:44,900 --> 01:09:53,220
far as fats are concerned. But this is important. So trans fats, they're partially hydrogenated oils,

682
01:09:53,220 --> 01:09:58,820
and they've actually been banned in the United States in our food due to heart disease. There

683
01:09:58,820 --> 01:10:04,180
actually are direct correlations with trans fats and causing adverse effects in heart disease.

684
01:10:04,180 --> 01:10:11,780
They will cause us to have an increase in our bad cholesterol and a decrease in our good cholesterol.

685
01:10:11,780 --> 01:10:20,100
So increases in LDL and decreases in HDL, which is not what we want. So trans fats were effective

686
01:10:20,100 --> 01:10:24,900
in prolonging the shelf life of foods, and they could also withstand higher cooking temperatures.

687
01:10:24,900 --> 01:10:31,780
And they tasted great. Yeah, they really are good. And actually, this was really interesting. They

688
01:10:31,780 --> 01:10:37,620
were initially introduced, they were introduced in the early 1900s to replace butter and lard.

689
01:10:37,620 --> 01:10:47,460
Oh, interesting. Yeah. Okay. So this is a key point to remember. Foods can be labeled as no

690
01:10:47,460 --> 01:10:55,940
trans fat if they have less than 0.5 grams of trans fat in them. So that's less than 500 milligrams,

691
01:10:56,740 --> 01:11:05,540
but it's per serving. So if you eat more than one serving of something that has less than 0.5 grams

692
01:11:05,540 --> 01:11:10,820
of trans fat in it, then you're going to be getting up there and you do it on a regular basis,

693
01:11:10,820 --> 01:11:16,020
you're going to be getting those trans fat levels that are not safe. So you just need to be careful.

694
01:11:16,020 --> 01:11:21,220
We all need to be careful as far as watching the labels and then the serving size that we get,

695
01:11:21,220 --> 01:11:28,820
so that we are able to just maintain our health. So partially hydrogenated oils like these trans fats,

696
01:11:28,820 --> 01:11:36,740
they will stay not as a solid or they won't be a saturated fat at room temperature.

697
01:11:36,740 --> 01:11:42,900
So they increase these risks. And so if you have an increase in your bad cholesterol and a decrease,

698
01:11:42,900 --> 01:11:47,940
I mean, if you have an increase in your bad cholesterol and a decrease in your good cholesterol,

699
01:11:47,940 --> 01:11:53,220
it increases your risk for heart attacks, stroke, and diabetes. And those are things that we don't

700
01:11:53,220 --> 01:12:00,340
want to have and stuff. So whereas fully hydrogenated oils, they become a saturated fat at room

701
01:12:00,340 --> 01:12:04,740
temperature and they have not been associated with heart disease risk.

702
01:12:04,740 --> 01:12:08,260
Those good Oreos. Just don't eat too many of them. That's the thing.

703
01:12:08,260 --> 01:12:13,300
What can we say? So another thing that you've probably heard about, especially if you love

704
01:12:13,300 --> 01:12:20,340
Asian food, is monosodium glutamate. So it enhances flavor and texture in food and in

705
01:12:20,340 --> 01:12:25,940
enhances flavor and texture in foods that Asian food soups and other, and it's also in other

706
01:12:25,940 --> 01:12:28,660
processed foods as well too. Also commonly known as MSG.

707
01:12:28,660 --> 01:12:35,860
MSG. Yes. There is some evidence that it can cause some hypersensitivity reaction in people,

708
01:12:35,860 --> 01:12:40,980
but again, it's like the sulfites. You're going to know who you are. But the other thing with MSG

709
01:12:40,980 --> 01:12:47,540
is that it is, it is, it adds a ton of extra sodium to your diet. So if you're already on

710
01:12:47,540 --> 01:12:54,180
the borderline, as far as your blood pressure is concerned, eating a bunch of extra sodium or salt

711
01:12:54,180 --> 01:12:57,700
can make your blood pressure go up higher. So you just want to be careful with that.

712
01:12:58,500 --> 01:13:06,100
Yeah. I looked into this too. Actually MSG per unit gram has less sodium than traditional table

713
01:13:06,100 --> 01:13:12,020
salt. So they do have sodium inside of it, but it's actually a better sodium alternative than

714
01:13:12,020 --> 01:13:21,860
table salt. Also a Cochrane review talked about a meta-analysis of sodium. Basically, if you have

715
01:13:21,860 --> 01:13:28,660
hypertension, then actually increasing your sodium actually worsens that hypertension.

716
01:13:28,660 --> 01:13:33,620
But if you don't have hypertension, if you have good blood pressure, then actually adding extra

717
01:13:33,620 --> 01:13:40,340
sodium only really maybe makes your hypertension worse by about 0.3% compared to the hypertension

718
01:13:40,340 --> 01:13:44,900
group, which is around 3%. So if you already have good blood pressure, not much to worry about. But

719
01:13:45,780 --> 01:13:51,780
mom said, if you have hypertension, if you have high blood pressure, best to avoid the extra sodium

720
01:13:51,780 --> 01:13:58,020
and because it could potentially exacerbate your problem. Another fun fact, I just read this article

721
01:13:58,020 --> 01:14:06,420
last night. There was the first allergy documented in Japan to MSG. So we should probably differentiate

722
01:14:06,420 --> 01:14:11,140
between, we did a whole episode on allergies, but allergy versus sensitivity. So allergies

723
01:14:11,140 --> 01:14:16,980
literally pertaining to your immune system. Your immune system literally identifies this is bad.

724
01:14:16,980 --> 01:14:21,940
We're going to attack it even though it really isn't bad. Sensitivity is just, something happens

725
01:14:21,940 --> 01:14:27,220
in your body physiologically, something like celiac disease, or I wouldn't say celiac disease

726
01:14:27,220 --> 01:14:32,660
because that's an autoimmune disease, but gluten sensitivity would be something like you eat bread

727
01:14:32,660 --> 01:14:37,140
and it could not even be gluten, but you eat bread and it doesn't make you feel very good. That's a

728
01:14:37,140 --> 01:14:41,620
bread or gluten sensitivity. Whereas if your immune system is involved, we call that an allergy.

729
01:14:42,180 --> 01:14:47,780
March, 2024, just case study of this young woman and they exposed her to MSG and she had this immune

730
01:14:47,780 --> 01:14:52,740
response, which I thought was great timing. Great timing for our topic. Yeah, I was like, wow.

731
01:14:52,740 --> 01:14:58,420
Yes. So you know, biology is wild. There you go. There you go. One of the other things that has

732
01:14:58,420 --> 01:15:06,660
been a food issue in the past was the, you know how there are food dyes in food. And so this was

733
01:15:06,660 --> 01:15:12,420
food dye yellow, number five and six. And so it's like artificial coloring that you'll see in candy

734
01:15:12,420 --> 01:15:20,420
or cereal. And some patients may have a sensitivity to this, especially those with asthma. So again,

735
01:15:21,060 --> 01:15:25,780
if you know about it, it's just something to be aware of. Yeah, I've read into this a little bit

736
01:15:25,780 --> 01:15:32,020
more too. And it seems to be because of things, certain diseases are just so random when they

737
01:15:32,020 --> 01:15:37,300
flare up. I think anybody recently, if anybody has had long COVID, they know that these symptoms

738
01:15:37,300 --> 01:15:43,540
just kind of appear out of nowhere. And so I think it's easy to identify the thing that you did the

739
01:15:43,540 --> 01:15:49,300
day over the day before that triggered it, which is why we need to do randomized double blind

740
01:15:49,300 --> 01:15:58,020
control trials so that you can weed out the noise and try to find a signal. So some studies have been

741
01:15:58,020 --> 01:16:04,500
done with these food colorings of people with asthma and basically did it cause an asthmatic

742
01:16:04,500 --> 01:16:09,940
attack? And a very small percentage of people, it did. But most people who claim to have an

743
01:16:09,940 --> 01:16:14,180
asthma attack, it didn't really. So I'm not negating the fact that it does cause it for a certain

744
01:16:14,180 --> 01:16:21,140
amount of people. But I think with things like asthma and other basically diseases that aren't

745
01:16:21,140 --> 01:16:26,500
as predictable when they flare up, like my mom, she gets migraines and I don't know if they're

746
01:16:26,500 --> 01:16:32,660
not predictable, right? They just happen. So I mean, I could be like, well, maybe it was the diet

747
01:16:32,660 --> 01:16:38,260
Coke you had. And she'd be like, absolutely not. There's no way. And it's probably not. But I'm

748
01:16:38,260 --> 01:16:44,820
saying like you can easily, we have such a recency bias of things that we just did to think that

749
01:16:44,820 --> 01:16:49,860
that actually caused the thing. But if you know anything about biology, you just know how many

750
01:16:49,860 --> 01:16:53,620
things are going on in your body all the time. Like even things when you're getting sick from a

751
01:16:53,620 --> 01:16:58,260
bacteria or virus, it has an incubation period. There's a time where it's growing inside of your

752
01:16:58,260 --> 01:17:03,940
body before you start to feel symptoms. So unfortunately with things like this, it is so

753
01:17:03,940 --> 01:17:09,220
hard to do really good rigorous science because it's a, it's expensive. It's time prohibitive.

754
01:17:09,220 --> 01:17:12,580
You have to find the people, you have to bring them in, you have to do the trials, you have to

755
01:17:12,580 --> 01:17:16,820
watch them over a long period of time. And that just costs a lot of money. So a lot of times

756
01:17:16,820 --> 01:17:21,700
people will just assume I'm just going to stay away from this. But when you really look at it

757
01:17:21,700 --> 01:17:26,420
and you think is the juice actually worse, the squeeze, it doesn't seem like it. But again,

758
01:17:26,420 --> 01:17:30,980
you could be that one individual who is sensitive to the thing or even allergic to this thing.

759
01:17:30,980 --> 01:17:37,060
And I'd say too, and again, I've not ever been to an allergist, but I know people that have,

760
01:17:37,060 --> 01:17:42,740
they do have panels where they can test people for allergic reactions to certain things. Now,

761
01:17:42,740 --> 01:17:48,180
whether these dyes are on that panel, I'm not sure. But I mean, if they are, then that would be

762
01:17:48,180 --> 01:17:53,460
another way to definitively determine whether or not you're allergic to a particular thing.

763
01:17:53,460 --> 01:17:57,060
That's a good point. Yeah, because there's a lot of things out there. And sometimes you just want

764
01:17:57,060 --> 01:18:04,660
to know what to avoid if a person can do a panel. Right. So the last thing as far as problems with

765
01:18:04,660 --> 01:18:10,260
food preservatives are parabens. And so there was a little bit of stuff about hypersensitivity,

766
01:18:10,260 --> 01:18:15,940
but again, it's kind of like that maybe, maybe not. It depends on the person. But one thing that I

767
01:18:15,940 --> 01:18:21,620
read about, which I thought was interesting, but it has not been definitively proven. It was just

768
01:18:21,620 --> 01:18:27,300
something that it's like, saw this primarily in animals, don't know what it's going to do in humans.

769
01:18:27,300 --> 01:18:33,780
But they talked about the fact that parabens could be what we call an endocrine disruptor compound,

770
01:18:33,780 --> 01:18:41,620
which means potentially that it had, it was having effects on estrogen receptors. And so potentially

771
01:18:41,620 --> 01:18:47,380
we think about breast cancer. And so it's, the evidence is really pretty controversial. There's

772
01:18:47,380 --> 01:18:54,340
been evidence both in studies and epidemiological studies that have linked paraben exposure to breast

773
01:18:54,340 --> 01:19:03,380
cancer, but it also could negatively interfere with some endocrine targets that are relevant to

774
01:19:03,380 --> 01:19:09,460
breast carcinogenesis. So we don't know really whether or not this is really true or not. And

775
01:19:09,460 --> 01:19:17,540
the actual material trials, data, literature that I was reading were a number of years old.

776
01:19:17,540 --> 01:19:22,980
And I haven't, I didn't see a whole lot more more recently, so I'm not sure this is panning out,

777
01:19:22,980 --> 01:19:28,500
but it was just something like, hmm. So I really think more data are needed before we really say

778
01:19:28,500 --> 01:19:33,700
that parabens could really have an actual impact on whether or not women develop breast cancer.

779
01:19:33,700 --> 01:19:40,580
Yeah. Cancer research is so tough because I mean, there's so much time that you need to wait,

780
01:19:40,580 --> 01:19:45,540
you know, and sometimes people just don't want to wait. So I think this is one of those examples

781
01:19:45,540 --> 01:19:51,140
where, yeah, it just depends on your risk assessment. Like do you, and it's cool that

782
01:19:51,140 --> 01:19:55,540
there are products now that are coming out as paraben free. So just in case people are more

783
01:19:55,540 --> 01:20:01,780
risk averse and they want to have those products, they can. But like mom said, I think a lot of these

784
01:20:01,780 --> 01:20:10,420
things are very, they're not as clear cut. Right. And again, too, I, again, I did not dive deep into

785
01:20:10,420 --> 01:20:16,100
this, but my, my other thought is we're talking about this too, is the concentrations of parabens

786
01:20:16,100 --> 01:20:23,460
in the food or the tablet that you're taking, how much of that do we need to ingest before

787
01:20:24,100 --> 01:20:29,460
there's going to have this impact on, on estrogen? That's a great question. A lot of animal models,

788
01:20:29,460 --> 01:20:35,380
they'll, they'll give them a ton that is just not, you know, not realistic. It's just like,

789
01:20:36,260 --> 01:20:43,620
does this have the proof of concept of doing this thing? And yeah, I mean, even in California,

790
01:20:43,620 --> 01:20:48,340
like California, I can't remember what the, the law is, but they have this thing as like,

791
01:20:48,340 --> 01:20:54,660
if there's any link to cancer whatsoever, then we have to put a label on it saying this could

792
01:20:54,660 --> 01:21:00,100
potentially be chrysanogenic. I mean, it's on coffee. It is on, it is on covers of weight

793
01:21:00,100 --> 01:21:04,500
equipment and who's eating weight equipment. And I was like, I mean, maybe you touch it and put it

794
01:21:04,500 --> 01:21:11,060
in, but it's like, that is a level of, I'm sorry to use the word, that is a level of paranoia that

795
01:21:11,060 --> 01:21:15,060
I just don't think that people should walk around with their life. I mean, it's just like, everything

796
01:21:15,060 --> 01:21:20,100
is potentially unsafe. And sometimes that's actually true. Like there's nothing as pure safety.

797
01:21:20,100 --> 01:21:24,660
And as my mom talked about earlier, safe just means on average, like, you know, compared to

798
01:21:24,660 --> 01:21:31,540
doing nothing, it's, it's about the same. But it doesn't mean that it's zero. And I, you know,

799
01:21:31,540 --> 01:21:36,100
for me, just, just a life tip was like, don't go around your life thinking bad things are never

800
01:21:36,100 --> 01:21:42,180
going to happen. Like sometimes they're going to happen and, and yeah. And I just, I, I, we,

801
01:21:42,180 --> 01:21:46,740
we're trying to give information to hopefully give you a sense of like, give you more information.

802
01:21:46,740 --> 01:21:52,500
So you have a sense of like more nuance with how you think about things. But what we really want

803
01:21:52,500 --> 01:21:57,940
from you, at least what I want from you is I want you to walk around feeling like you can tackle

804
01:21:57,940 --> 01:22:02,340
this and not be scared of everything. Like these things are very noble and they're very approachable.

805
01:22:02,340 --> 01:22:07,780
So I, for me, knowledge is like that. It gives me much more freedom in the world. So there you go.

806
01:22:07,780 --> 01:22:12,580
Well, that's a great segue too, is that if you are a person that would like to

807
01:22:12,580 --> 01:22:20,980
to limit your food additives, a couple of ways to do that are cook more, eat more fresh foods,

808
01:22:20,980 --> 01:22:29,460
less process. So cook everything from scratch is another way to do it. Or if you can't get the

809
01:22:29,460 --> 01:22:36,740
fresh ones per se, frozen vegetables and fruits are also better than canned there. They've got

810
01:22:36,740 --> 01:22:40,580
less preservatives in them. They've got less sodium in them. So they're going to be better.

811
01:22:40,580 --> 01:22:45,700
Also crazy enough, they actually have more nutrient density. Yes, because they're not

812
01:22:45,700 --> 01:22:50,260
processed as much. It's actually because they're frozen, because when things are colder, there's

813
01:22:50,260 --> 01:22:54,100
less things to break them down. There you go. So I remember reading a paper about that. I thought

814
01:22:54,100 --> 01:22:57,620
that was really interesting. That is very interesting. You might get rid of it when you microwave it or

815
01:22:57,620 --> 01:23:05,460
cook it. Yeah, but oh well. Yeah, but you can just eat it frozen. So yeah. Oh gosh. And also to just

816
01:23:05,460 --> 01:23:12,420
read the labels of your foods, so that you have a greater awareness of what's there, what you're

817
01:23:12,420 --> 01:23:16,260
eating. Yeah. And we gave you all a lot of information today. We will post these notes

818
01:23:16,820 --> 01:23:20,740
so that you can read through just in case you want in some of these names or when you're looking at

819
01:23:20,740 --> 01:23:25,620
labels and you can figure out what their concentrations are and what's worth the risk and what's not.

820
01:23:26,180 --> 01:23:32,580
Right. And so then to wrap things up, almost wrap things up. So what issues would we see with

821
01:23:32,580 --> 01:23:40,420
pharmaceutical preservatives? Well, again, we want the medication to remain stable.

822
01:23:40,980 --> 01:23:47,380
So we're going to be modifying things like temperature, humidity, the pH, oxidation,

823
01:23:47,940 --> 01:23:52,980
storage conditions, and formulations as far as making sure that your product stays stable so

824
01:23:52,980 --> 01:23:59,380
that you're getting the amount of medication that the label says you're getting. Some select

825
01:23:59,380 --> 01:24:04,420
preservatives that we've seen issues with in the literature over the years are first of all,

826
01:24:04,420 --> 01:24:10,660
alcohols. Alcohols are generally considered safe, but years ago it was determined that the alcohol,

827
01:24:10,660 --> 01:24:18,100
benzyl alcohol is not recommended for use in parenteral products and in injectable products

828
01:24:18,100 --> 01:24:26,900
in low birth weight infants because it can cause a fatal toxic syndrome in them. So that's for

829
01:24:26,900 --> 01:24:32,660
sherbin proven so that you'll see no benzyl alcohol given to low birth weight infants.

830
01:24:34,020 --> 01:24:40,980
Parabens, again, they're rearing their ugly head again in the pharmaceutical preservative issue.

831
01:24:40,980 --> 01:24:46,660
They are not suitable for use in ophthalmic products and parenteral products because they

832
01:24:46,660 --> 01:24:54,180
can cause irritation. So you'll not see those types of preservatives in those agents.

833
01:24:54,180 --> 01:24:59,460
There is a preservative called EDTA. You may have heard those initials before.

834
01:24:59,460 --> 01:25:09,380
The EDTA stands for ethylene diamine tetra acetic acid. And it's considered to have low toxicity,

835
01:25:09,860 --> 01:25:15,540
but it has been put in nebulizer solutions which is used for people who have bronchoconstriction or

836
01:25:15,540 --> 01:25:20,820
you're having trouble breathing, but it's caused some dose-related bronchoconstriction in those

837
01:25:20,820 --> 01:25:27,380
nebulizer solutions. So it's counteracting what you're using the nebulizer solution for.

838
01:25:27,380 --> 01:25:33,620
So it's been recommended to remove those things. And also it can cause kidney damage.

839
01:25:33,620 --> 01:25:39,300
So if you're a patient with kidney problems, you would not want to use products that have EDTA in

840
01:25:39,300 --> 01:25:49,380
them. And here's one that's been definitely controversial. It's called thimerosal. It's a

841
01:25:49,380 --> 01:25:56,340
mercury-containing organic compound. And it's been widely used as an antimicrobial preservative

842
01:25:56,340 --> 01:26:04,180
since the 1930s. It's been also seen in topical products like contact lens solutions.

843
01:26:05,140 --> 01:26:09,060
And we've seen it. We have seen some hypersensitivity when it's been used in

844
01:26:09,060 --> 01:26:15,700
eye drops and in vaccines. But the big deal with the thimerosal is because it has been included

845
01:26:15,700 --> 01:26:22,580
in vaccines. And so this was interesting. I did read that when babies are born, they do get a lot

846
01:26:22,580 --> 01:26:30,180
of vaccines. Vaccines have been reformulated a lot since I was a kid and got vaccines, even since

847
01:26:30,180 --> 01:26:35,860
Josh was a kid and got vaccines. And so a lot of vaccines are single-use containers rather than

848
01:26:35,860 --> 01:26:40,740
multiple-use containers. So a lot of them don't have preservatives in them anymore. But there were

849
01:26:40,740 --> 01:26:48,900
some studies done with babies that had to get all that series of injections for vaccines and found

850
01:26:48,900 --> 01:26:55,460
that with getting a lot of them, they could get a level of thimerosal that reached the Environmental

851
01:26:55,460 --> 01:27:02,420
Protection Agency mercury levels that were not safe in their first six months of life, that it

852
01:27:02,420 --> 01:27:09,220
exceeded those levels and stuff. But again, like I said, most vaccines have been reformulated so

853
01:27:09,220 --> 01:27:14,500
that you don't have thimerosal in them. So even if you got one dose of a vaccine that did have

854
01:27:14,500 --> 01:27:19,220
thimerosal in it, you're not going to be at risk because some of the other ones won't have it as

855
01:27:19,220 --> 01:27:24,260
well. Yeah. I think that I can't remember the date, but I feel like that was back in the 90s

856
01:27:24,260 --> 01:27:30,820
when they got reformulated. There's also a distinction between organic and inorganic mercury

857
01:27:30,820 --> 01:27:37,380
compounds. Organic mercury compounds are things that you eat in fish. And then there's inorganic

858
01:27:37,380 --> 01:27:43,940
mercury. And they get metabolized differently in your body. I mean, you could eat a lot of tuna

859
01:27:43,940 --> 01:27:50,100
and you can get mercury poisoning. So really the dose makes the poison, which is why you want to

860
01:27:50,100 --> 01:27:55,460
do the single dose vaccines that you limit the amount that you're getting. And like we said,

861
01:27:55,460 --> 01:28:00,260
we've reformulated those vaccines. Some of them actually have thimerosal and some don't. And

862
01:28:00,260 --> 01:28:05,780
we found a different way to preserve them over time. I don't know if the most recent mRNA,

863
01:28:05,780 --> 01:28:09,940
I don't think it does have thimerosal in it because I won't see why it would.

864
01:28:09,940 --> 01:28:14,660
I don't know. But again, especially if they're single use containers, they're going to have

865
01:28:15,620 --> 01:28:21,860
less of a need for those preservatives because remember they're sterilized as well as then if

866
01:28:21,860 --> 01:28:29,860
they need. And of course, let's end on a very controversial statement, but again, there have

867
01:28:29,860 --> 01:28:35,860
been, you know, there was so much concern that vaccines, especially those that can contain thimerosal

868
01:28:36,740 --> 01:28:41,460
contributed to the development of autism in children. And there's been a number of studies

869
01:28:41,460 --> 01:28:47,620
and there's just been really no definitive association between those, the use of thimerosal

870
01:28:47,620 --> 01:28:53,460
and the development of autism. And again, it's been looked at in a variety of ways. And so

871
01:28:53,460 --> 01:28:59,460
thimerosal was not definitively scientifically linked to autism or any other neurodevelopmental

872
01:28:59,460 --> 01:29:07,540
disorder. So I know that that is a sensitive topic and a sensitive subject to those that have kiddos

873
01:29:07,540 --> 01:29:14,180
that have developed autism or another neurodevelopmental disorder and they got a vaccine. But I would

874
01:29:14,180 --> 01:29:19,060
suggest that there was something else that was the underlying reason for that. So yeah,

875
01:29:19,060 --> 01:29:27,220
so yeah, I'm not an autism expert, so I don't know how it comes about, but it's, yeah, I just,

876
01:29:27,220 --> 01:29:32,820
it was looked at and looked at when people brought this topic up and there was just no association.

877
01:29:32,820 --> 01:29:36,980
Well, it was, I mean, the paper was actually original by a guy named Andrew Wakefield,

878
01:29:36,980 --> 01:29:43,060
actually here in Austin, Texas, who he was a, he was a physician who potentially just, it was just

879
01:29:43,060 --> 01:29:48,340
an opinion piece of like, well, maybe this is what the link is. And then submitted some data that was

880
01:29:48,340 --> 01:29:54,900
actually fabricated. And then the paper didn't, it was submitted, I think it was to the Lancet.

881
01:29:55,620 --> 01:30:00,260
And then it was accepted. And then upon the pushback and looking at the actual data,

882
01:30:01,140 --> 01:30:05,140
it had to be retracted. Well, it wasn't retracted till I think 2010 or 2014.

883
01:30:05,860 --> 01:30:09,540
So as you know, in science, if something is just published in a reputable journal,

884
01:30:09,540 --> 01:30:18,820
people are going to cite it and they're going to believe it. And obviously there is a movement of,

885
01:30:18,820 --> 01:30:24,100
they're just, I don't really know how to explain it, but there's just a large movement against

886
01:30:25,620 --> 01:30:33,540
vaccination. And I think a lot of people just, they found this as credible evidence towards it.

887
01:30:33,540 --> 01:30:38,100
I mean, we could have a whole, I might just delete this part out, but I was like,

888
01:30:38,100 --> 01:30:42,260
yeah, maybe so. Yeah, I'm just going to leave this part out. Yeah. So there we go. Yeah. Okay.

889
01:30:42,260 --> 01:30:47,620
And one last point that we want to make is we always talk about a myth or misinformation

890
01:30:47,620 --> 01:30:51,540
about our topic. And so we've actually kind of already kind of alluded to this, but that

891
01:30:52,100 --> 01:30:58,180
natural preservatives are healthier than synthetic or manmade chemicals. And this not

892
01:30:58,180 --> 01:31:02,740
necessary preservatives. And that's not necessarily true. Do you know that some of

893
01:31:02,740 --> 01:31:08,260
the most toxic chemicals like Josh already mentioned, it come from nature and everything

894
01:31:08,260 --> 01:31:12,740
that we have as a chemical, I mean, we're, we're made of chemicals and stuff. So,

895
01:31:13,620 --> 01:31:18,820
so the presence of a chemical alone is not enough to create a potential risk to a person's health.

896
01:31:19,620 --> 01:31:26,500
Both the natural and the synthetic preservatives are useful. It just depends on the circumstances.

897
01:31:26,500 --> 01:31:30,740
Natural preservatives are a little bit harder to obtain. So it's going to make the cost of the

898
01:31:30,740 --> 01:31:36,180
product go up if you're going to use that. And also you'll have less of it. So you just might not be

899
01:31:36,180 --> 01:31:41,140
able to get it. So then we've got to preserve things to make our foods and our medications safe.

900
01:31:41,140 --> 01:31:46,820
So you're going to see a probably a balance of both. So I think that we'll just continue to see

901
01:31:46,820 --> 01:31:53,700
both use more often. So yeah, it just seems to be, it's a really interesting space. Like now I feel

902
01:31:53,700 --> 01:31:59,300
like I go to the grocery store. I see things a little bit differently after this episode,

903
01:31:59,300 --> 01:32:06,500
just the fact that there is so much food for such a long period of time is pretty amazing.

904
01:32:06,500 --> 01:32:10,820
When you think about it. Yes, it is. Like from the beginning of the episode that mom talked about

905
01:32:10,820 --> 01:32:16,580
a hundred years ago, you would essentially just go to your local farmer and they would just have

906
01:32:16,580 --> 01:32:22,420
produce that you could buy probably at a farmer's market. Yes, maybe. And now you were, everybody's

907
01:32:22,420 --> 01:32:26,020
growing their own or maybe you shared it with your neighbor, you know, maybe, you know, I mean,

908
01:32:26,020 --> 01:32:29,860
just knowing like what original cities, I mean, obviously people would bring their stuff in and

909
01:32:29,860 --> 01:32:36,420
sell them at markets. But regardless, you could only grow what was available in your region.

910
01:32:36,420 --> 01:32:40,900
And so the fact that we're able to get so many things from so many different parts of the world

911
01:32:40,900 --> 01:32:46,180
is really cool. I view that as a part of a place to bringing people together and bringing cultures

912
01:32:46,180 --> 01:32:52,420
together that would have never been able to interact. So I think this technology is really

913
01:32:52,420 --> 01:32:58,260
amazing that you can, you can cook a pizza one night and then pad Thai another night and have

914
01:32:58,260 --> 01:33:04,500
some avocado toasts in the morning. And that's all possible thanks to this technology and hopefully

915
01:33:05,220 --> 01:33:10,900
keeping you safe as well. So, well, thank you so much. This was a really good discussion.

916
01:33:10,900 --> 01:33:14,740
I agree. We hope that you learned a lot. And if you ever have any questions for us,

917
01:33:14,740 --> 01:33:20,100
please drop us a line. But until next time, my name is Josh Klaus and I'm Jenny Seltzer.

918
01:33:20,100 --> 01:33:24,660
And this has been another episode of Your Mom on Drugs. Bye. Bye.