Welcome back to another episode of Your Mom on
Drugs. My name is Josh Klaus and I'm here with
my mom. I'm Jennifer Seltzer. My mom is a PharmD,
a doctor of pharmacy. I am a lowly undergraduate
in neurobiology, as well as my master's in public
health. And we are here to basically talk to
you about drugs, usually the kind that get prescribed
to you, you can take over the counter. And what
they do to you, what they don't do to you, et
cetera. And we are both in Texas and the summer
has been incredibly hot. Incredibly hot. So we
figured we would do an episode on sunscreen and
sunscreen is one of those things that I know
can be a bit divisive. I think a lot of people
are like, well, you know, what SPF should I use?
How much should I use? What brand should I use?
Which types are good? I'm, you know. There are
so many questions that I never thought to ask
until we decided to do an episode on sunscreen
to get some sun protection. And so we should
talk about, you know, sunscreen. First of all,
why do we use it? So mom, I'm going to turn that
over to you. So what is the, what's the point
of sunscreen? Well, I think we need to first
go back to, like you said, why on earth do we
need it? And I think it all starts with ultraviolet
radiation that's coming from the sun. And it
comes down and constant exposure to ultraviolet
radiation, if it's cumulative, can cause long
-term problems. And the problems that it can
cause... You can have sunburn. That's more of
an acute problem. But the long -term problems
that you'll see with continual exposure to ultraviolet
radiation are what they call photoaggravated
skin disorders. So it's going to be premature
aging of your skin as well as skin cancer. And
interestingly, as I was doing this... you know,
preparing for this presentation, also exposure
to these, these ultraviolet wavelengths can cause
cataracts too. And so, which I thought was quite
interesting. So there, so again, we're wanting
to do the, and you know, when, when you were
a kid and when I was a kid, especially when I
was a kid, the focus of putting on sunscreen
was definitely not there. And it started, you
know, probably as I'm a parent to your generation
and it's certainly gotten progressively better
since that time. So sunscreen is definitely one
component that can be used to help protect people
from the effects of ultraviolet radiation. So
let's talk before, I know you've got a question,
but let me, before you ask my question, let me
just talk about the, the different types of ultraviolet
radiation. There are three bands of UV light.
They are UVC, ultraviolet C, ultraviolet B, and
ultraviolet A. Ultraviolet C has the shortest
wavelength, and then ultraviolet B, and then
ultraviolet A. And we should clarify for wavelength,
it's very much like what you think about like
an ocean wave, like the top of one crest to the
wave to the other crest. That is what we call
wavelength. And there is a relationship between
the length between two waves, the wavelength,
the shorter it is, the more energy it carries.
So light is in a, we call it the electromagnetic
spectrum and the spectrum covers radio waves.
which have the longest wavelength. Their wavelength
can actually be the size of a house. They're
very long. And then it goes all the way down
to things called gamma rays, which their wavelengths
are incredibly short in the terms of billions,
if not trillions of a meter. And UV light is
in the nanometer, in the hundreds of billions
of meters. So it's incredibly small wavelengths
and they can... pack quite a bit of an energetic
punch so these bands uvc b and a are broken up
in terms of their wavelength just the way that
red orange and yellow and the colors and the
visible spectrum are broken up because red is
a certain wavelength of light so is orange and
so is yellow so we're dividing them is do i have
that correct right okay interestingly although
like you like like josh said the uvc wavelength
or the radiation from ultraviolet C. It's the
highest energy, shortest wavelength, but most
of UVC light is blocked out by the ozone layer
in our atmosphere. So we don't really get the
effects of it so much because it gets blocked
out. So the ones that we're most concerned with
are going to be UVB and UVA. It used to be thought
that only UV... B was a contributory factor to
skin cancer, but now it's also been found that
UVA also is as well too. And other thing too
that some people might be thinking about is,
well, isn't UVB associated with vitamin D conversion
as well? And the answer is yes. It does allow
the vitamin D in our skin to get converted to
the active form so that we have good bone health.
But we have so many foods now that are vitamin
D fortified that sun exposure is not as imperative
anymore as it used to be. So that's kind of a
good thing to know as well, too. Yes. And I know
that there are people out there who have genetic
deficiencies in forming vitamin D from the sun
as well. And so those people have to get it from
their diet as well. And I think it also impairs
your ability to make vitamin D when you're blocking
UVB exposure. We're going to talk about this
later, but it really depends on the UV index
and basically how prone you are to the intensity
of these UV rays. And definitely early in the
day and later in the day, you should be getting
natural light exposure for just different biological
pathways to be activated inside of your brain,
mainly having to do with your circadian rhythm.
There's a guy who's... who's super famous his
name is andrew huberman and he talks very much
about getting early and late light exposure and
you definitely need some natural light exposure
but if you're going to be in the sun for an extended
period of time and you want to lower the odds
of getting these long -term you know photo aging
effects then applying sunscreen is going to be
a good way to mitigating against that risk. And
if you care about vitamin D as well, like mom
said, you can definitely supplement that with
some vitamin D. Right. One other thing, let me
just add, as we're giving kind of this background
information is the UVB light is the light that
is most associated with getting the redness or
the erythema that's associated with a sunburn
and stuff. And so, but it's not just that, but
because of that, it can also cause Skin cancer.
I've got one fun, fun, sobering fact. In one
study. It showed that if you have five or more
blistering sunburns, and we've all had that awful
sunburn that we're like, oh my gosh, this really
hurts. If you have five or more of those between
the ages of 15 and 20 years of age, it increases
your risk of melanoma by 80 % and the risk of
a non -melanoma skin cancer by 68%. Now that
was one study, you know, and I... confess that
i didn't read all the details of the study and
stuff but yeah because i because i could see
that as being people who are essentially just
out in the sun and if you've gotten five more
of those intense burns you're probably a person
who's just going to be going outside and not
really applying a sunscreen right if you're out
if you're a guy and you're out with it out of
shirt all and you get a huge sunburn on your
back or whatever and stuff so yeah so i you know
again just And again, I say that just for effect
and the fact that it's, you know, having protection
against the sun is important. It doesn't mean
you don't get to go outside. It just means we
need to be wise while we do it. Correct. And
we are definitely talking about quality of life.
I mean, because the best way to avoid sun exposure
is to stay out of the sun. But who wants to do
that? There's so much beautiful life to experience.
Um, yeah, you can also wear clothing. That's
probably the best way to do it. Uh, but you're
not going to wear long clothes all the time,
especially in a summer in Texas. Um, and again,
like when we're talking about risk, um, these
are not binary outcomes. You know, anytime you're
talking about things like sunburn or cancer or
any type of disease state, it is going to be
a risk that you're going to accrue because you'll
always hear the person, especially about cigarettes,
be like, well, my grandmother smoked cigarettes
and she lived to be 102. It's like, okay, well.
She dodged the bullet, but there's hundreds of
thousands of people who didn't. And so anytime
that you're exposing your body to certain chemicals,
you are essentially just playing roulette with
some damage that could potentially be done to
your DNA that will eventually cause cancer. But
we're going to get to cancer in a bit, and I
think we should start with the low -hanging fruit
because this will actually kind of lead us into
talking about how SPFs are created, but let's
talk about sunburn. And that's definitely arrhythmia
is the, not arrhythmia, it's erythema. Erythema.
Erythema. Not arrhythmia. Not arrhythmia. That's
a hard thing. So, yeah. Let me just give you
some other little kind of interesting pearls
as well, too, about kind of that relate to sunburn.
Some people might think that they don't need
to use any protection if the clouds are out.
But that is not true. The sun can still penetrate.
These UVA and UVB lights can still penetrate
through clouds, maybe not as much, but they're
still there. So we need to be aware of that as
well, too. And this was a really interesting
thing that I learned as well, too, as I'm preparing
this, because Josh and I always learn new things
while we're doing this. Water, water only reflects
about 5%. of ultraviolet radiation. And what
I mean by that is that it's going to move it
away from you so that you're protected against
the sun. So that means that 95 % of the UV radiation
light from the sun can penetrate water. So that
means that you want to have sunscreen on while
you're in the water. And you also want to count
that as part of the time that you are being protected
against the sun as far as reapplication processes
with the sunscreen that we'll talk about in a
bit. So again, water is not a protector against
the sun. Also, like Josh said, dry, dry clothings
will reflect most of it unless you're wearing
something really thin that might, you know, cause
the sun to penetrate through. So you got to be,
just be aware of what you've got on. And interestingly,
the windshields in cars. are designed to protect
you against UV light, but the side windows aren't.
So if you have some sort of a sensitive, you
know, skin condition, or maybe you're taking
a medication that causes you to be more sensitive
to light, then you might consider putting on
sunscreen even while you're riding in a car.
Well, I think we should talk about sunburn in
general. Like, I think a lot of people think
that the mechanism of getting sunburned and getting
skin cancer are, are the same or synonymous,
even though the cause might be related. So I
think it would be good to talk about that, um,
in terms of, you know, what is sunburn? Um, and,
um, and I can definitely speak to that if, and
it's like, I've got a little bit, but I bet you
can add a lot. Yeah. You can add some context.
So let's differentiate. Cause I think a lot of
people, when they put on sunscreen, They're thinking,
oh, I'm putting this on either to prevent me
from getting sunburn or to diminish my risk of
potentially getting a melanoma or carcinoma.
And we'll talk about what each of those means.
Let's go with sunburn. So if you think about
your skin, your skin is not just one thing. It's
a layer of things. And you have something called
your epidermis, which is the thin outer layer
of your skin. It's super thin. It's actually
only a couple of cell layers thick. And as a
reminder of what a cell is, a cell, your body
is composed of cells and they're essentially
these spherical or circular entities that contain
this very liquid inside that's mostly composed
of protein. and nucleic acids, fats, and sugars.
And nucleic acids are things like DNA, which
is your genetic information. So your body has
about 100 trillion of these. And there's different
types all throughout your body that do different
jobs. So the job of your epidermis is it's this
dead layer of cells because they're no longer
living, but they still have this protective barrier
around. But they have no blood vessels because
they're dead. They don't need blood. So you don't
need that. So actually, when you get sunburned,
that UV light is essentially getting through
your epidermis because the wavelength of the
UV light is so small that it can get through
that epidermis. And it can actually stimulate
blood flow from your dermis, which is just below
your epidermis. And that can stimulate a massive
amount of blood flow that basically creates this
pinkish hue. And if that gets stimulated enough,
you're essentially going to get kind of this
red cooking effect, which is what we call a sunburn.
And it's kind of when you've lost a lot of the
water that's in your skin. as well as increased
blood flow to that area. And it's very uncomfortable
because there's also a large immune response
to that as well. We have a lot of cytokines,
which are these cells in your immune system that
rush to that area, and that's why it hurts. It's
creating this inflammation effect going to your
skin and your sunburn. And we call that erythema,
which is that effect of moving blood from basically
this dermal area kind of in between to the epidermal
area. Anything to add to that, mom? The only
thing I would add to that is that some sunburns
can be really severe and people can get really
sick. If you get really, you think about a burn,
if you got burned by fire, you know, and stuff.
Well, I mean, some people can blister. I mean,
you can have some swelling with your sunburn,
but you can also get fever chills and even shock
because you've lost so much. You've got, you've
had, you've had such a. increase in your body
heat as a result of the sun hitting it so that
we don't see that that often but again it's just
something to be aware of especially with you
know your younger children and stuff and just
to make sure that you know you do protect them
because they could you know get you know sunburn
maybe even worse than than we are because of
their little delicate new little skin and stuff
so um so i would just add that as far as the
sunburn is concerned yeah and i think from this
sunburn part we should talk about you know i
think a lot of people are like well now okay
i want to stop from getting burned that doesn't
sound very good what spf should i use and what
is spf in general so i think we should talk about
how spf is defined because i think it's a little
counterintuitive or people don't really aren't
really aware of how it's calculated um So mom,
you can fill in my gaps wherever, but so SPF
stands for sun protection factor. And when a
sunscreen manufacturer is creating a sunscreen,
what they'll normally do is they will get a test
subject. And usually it's a light skinned person.
So usually someone of Caucasian descent, and
they will expose parts of their skin, usually
on their back to UV radiation. And then they
will see, basically the energy that it takes
to turn that skin pink. And then they will send
that person home. And then the next day, that
same person comes back and they apply basically
a healthy dose of sunscreen on the other side
of the back, maybe their left side instead of
their right side. And they expose them to UV
radiation. And then they do that until they turn
pink. And then They come back the third day to
compare the two and the energy that it took to
basically cause the skin to turn pink on the
sunscreen application side versus the non -sunscreen
application side, they divide that number. So
for example, if it took 250 units of UV light
on the left side with the sunscreen and it took
10 units, on the side with no sunscreen, you
would divide 250 divided by 10 and you would
get 25. And so that would be an SPF of 25. Now
they do this with multiple people so you can
get an average. So an SPF is just an average
of this between the people. But you can imagine
that it's incredibly variable. You can have someone
who's super tan. Who's get brought in and their
SPF is going to be different than someone who
is super pale. So your SPF actually depends.
It's really personal. So it actually depends
very much on your skin tone. People who have
darker skin tones are going to have a higher
individual SPF than someone who's Caucasian.
Anything to fill in there, mom? A couple of things.
That number that when he's, when Josh is talking
about. that dose of UV light to cause that red,
red, the, the skin turning red on that test subject,
they call that the minimum erythema dose. So
not that you, anybody, but just the med, that's
right. And then another thing to add to that
is that, you know, we talked about sunburn, but
let's just make mention one, a few things about
sun, sun tanning, you know, because When I was
young, that was the focus of my life was to get
a suntan. And I wish I'd listened to my father.
Was he telling you don't do it? Oh, yes. My nose
peeled and burned. I don't know how many times.
So ultraviolet radiation stimulates melanocytes.
Those are the cells. And Josh is going to do
a better job of describing the cells than I do.
But they have the color in our skin. And so the
ultraviolet radiation. And some of us have more
of those than others that can be activated. And
so that's responsible for us tanning so that
the light from the sun will stimulate that and
it redistributes melanin in our skin. And so
we get changes in our skin color because of that.
And UVA and UVB both contribute to sun tanning.
But please listen to this. Tanning does not protect
you from skin cancer or premature aging. It's
just one of those factors that you just have
because you have more melanocytes. It also doesn't
protect you from future sunburns as well either.
Well, that's surprising. But wouldn't it, like
if you were more tan than someone who is pale,
wouldn't it take a longer time? For you to get
sunburned. Yeah, I'm not saying that it couldn't
delay the sunburn, but it doesn't prevent you
from getting sunburned. That's true, because
I know that people who have black skin can also
get sunburned. They can. And they're all, you
know, those with darker skin, they are not precluded
from getting skin cancer at some point down the
future. So if you're, I mean, again, you're applying
sunscreen for multifaceted reasons to prevent
sunburn in a lot of us and also to prevent those.
that premature aging as well as skin cancer down
the road. Yeah. And we should talk about premature
aging for a bit. Like what is aging? I think
that's a catch -all term, but when we're talking
about that, we are talking about, there's no
way to put it. This is looking old and it's this,
that you have these, you have a couple of proteins
in your skin that really promote to the tightening
of your skin. The main one is collagen. The other
one is elastin. Um, and collagen, you've probably
heard this before, either, you know, from, you
know, doing Botox injections or even you can,
you can ingest collagen, um, by eating things
like jello, like gelatin is a derivative of collagen.
Um, and when the UV light is essentially shining
on your face. It does damage to that protein
and essentially loses its collagen as a great
water absorber. So it essentially, it takes a
lot of water from your body and it kind of makes
it your, your face kind of balloon out, but in
a good way, it makes everything look really tight.
But once it loses its ability to do that, your
skin starts to sag a bit. So when you see an
older person like myself, as I'm, as I look in
the mirror every day, you see the tightness kind
of going away. Funny enough, if you look at an
old person's skin on a place that doesn't get
exposed to a lot of sun, like maybe underneath
their pants, their skin is just as elastic as
a young person's. It really does have to do with
sun exposure and sun damage. If you really want
to prevent that aging look, it is really a good
idea to put especially sunscreen on your face
and a good sunscreen. We'll talk about what a
good sunscreen is a bit later. You're thinking,
okay, so the higher the SPF, the better. Or maybe
I'm thinking for you. But the answer is yes.
The higher the SPF, the better. And there's been
this myth that's gone around that is like, well,
there's a marginal difference between SPF 50
and SPF 25, for example. Because if you divide
one over 50, you're going to basically block
out 98 % of the rays. SPF 25, it's one divided
by 25 and you'll block out like 96. So 96 to
98 is not that much, but as they actually get
the math wrong, it's actually one minus those
things. So essentially with the SPF 25, you might
block out 6 % of the rays or you might, yeah,
you might leave, you might protect yourself all
but 6 % of the rays. And with one over 50, you'll
block out all but 3 % of the rays. So it's actually
double the amount of protection. So like you
don't want to look at the large numbers. You
want to look at the difference between what you're
blocking out. So 6 % is twice as much as 3%.
So you actually want to get a higher SPF that
is comfortable for you. And actually you feel
like you can apply. And that's the other thing
I'm going to bring up next is that most people
don't apply the amount of sunscreen that they
use to generate the SPF. Like the amount of sunscreen
that is used in the lab to... what we talked
about with the med is like this generous dosage
that no one would ever do. And it's this, and
people would feel slimy and gross when they do
it. So most people don't apply enough. That's
a problem too. So what you want to do is knowing
your comfort level with sunscreen. Let's assume
that you like an SPF of 30. You should probably
get an SPF of 90 because The way that most people
apply sunscreen, they usually get about a third
of the benefit. So you actually want to be getting
something that's maybe two or three times higher
than you would normally buy at the store. I did
not see that confirmed in the literature, but.
that, that may be a way to do it. There's also
reapplying it more frequently and that's definitely,
definitely recommended and stuff. And we're going
to get to that, you know, in just a few minutes
and stuff. So let me just, let me just reiterate
what Josh was talking about as far as FPFS. PF
is concerned. So while we do have this calculation
to determine our sun protection factor, there
are other ingredients in a sunscreen. So it's
kind of a collective determination of a sun protection
factor for a sunscreen. So there are a few other
things. It wasn't elaborated in the literature
that I looked at. But you do have a sun protection
factor 15. You have one that's 30, 40, 50, and
60. Above 60 is really not recommended without
just more, you know, maybe you have a unique
circumstance and stuff, but most of us would
be able to tolerate, you know, the... You know,
40s and 50s and stuff. And so the SPF 15 blocks
93 % of UVB lights, UVB light. The SPF 30 blocks
96 .7 % of UVB. And then SPF 40 blocks 97 .5%.
Right. And what you want to do is you don't want
to look at the difference. You want to look at
the difference between those numbers. Yes. And
is that double or triple? So like for the SPF
15, if you take. 100 minus 93, you get 7%. So
it's giving you a 7 % protection factor. With
an SPF 40, you've got 100 minus 97 .5. So you're
getting 2 .5. So then you look at the difference
between 7 and 2 .5. It's almost threefold. That
is correct. And so you would be so much better
of getting the SPF of 40. And I know that being
in the public health world, If everything worked
out the way it did in clinical trials and laboratory,
that would be great. But honestly, one of the
problems, and my mom can attest to this, is that
there is the way that theoretically things should
go and there's the way that people actually take
their drugs. And a lot of times when doctors
prescribe medications to patients, whether it
be sunscreen or any type of medication, it's
hard to get the patients to take the recommended
dosage. The side effects are so severe that they
don't feel like they can keep up with it or they
forget or it's like it's too much information
all at once. So sometimes, even though in the
laboratory, it says you this one thing, you have
to look in the real world application and say,
OK, well, if people aren't applying this sunscreen
to an adequate degree. Are we going to say that
you're wrong? Are we going to go to recommend,
Hey, maybe you should get a higher SPF, put on
the same amount and you might get the same effect.
So yeah. Yeah. I think it's one of those things
where you kind of have to do what's best for
you. Like you'll put on an SPF and if you don't
get sunburned, like, okay, you probably did a
great job, um, that day. Right. Let's also talk,
let's not forget to just mention just again,
this is definitely not a podcast about skin cancer,
but the three most common kinds of skin cancer
that are associated with sun exposure are melanoma,
basal cell carcinoma, and squamous cell carcinoma.
In 2012, There were 3 .5 million cases of basal
cell and squamous cell carcinoma diagnosed in
the United States. And in 2019, there were 95
,000 melanoma cases. So you can see the discrepancy.
There's a lot more of basal cell and squamous
cell carcinomas. Basal cell carcinomas are limited
to that. epidermis level that Josh was talking
about. So that top layer of the skin, and they
rarely, if ever, metastasize. Squamous cell carcinomas
are going to go a little bit deeper, and they
only metastasize in 4 % of patients. Can we clarify
what metastasis is? So metastasis is when it
spreads from that local cancer site and it can
get in your bloodstream or your lymph node. And
so then it gets spread out through the rest of
your body. Right, because some places to have
cancer are better than others. And if it's on
your skin, that can be easily removed. But if
it's in your liver, then that's going to be a
much more invasive surgery and procedure. Right,
right. And so then, like I said, melanoma, It's
the most deadly of the skin cancers. And most
of them arise from... from normal skin, but 30
% of them can arise from moles. And remember,
if you've heard about melanoma, it's got the
alpha mnemonic that goes along with it, A, B,
C, D, E. So again, if you're looking something
on your skin and it's got what they call an asymmetric
shape, so that means it's not perfectly round,
it's kind of weird shaped. If its borders are
irregular or not clearly defined, if it's got
color variation, within the same lesion or change
in color. You know, if it was one color one day
and then now it's different color, you got to
be concerned about that. If it's diameter, if
the, if the distance across it is larger than
six millimeters, so it's going to get be a little
bit larger. And then if it, if it, if it. evolves
or change if a mole evolves or changes you want
to just contact your doctor about that and stuff
so just to give you a little heads up about that
well that's really good advice and for any of
you uh you know word nerds out there we're talking
about carcinomas versus melanoma melanoma is
oma is the suffix and it stands for basically
cancer and and um and then melanoma stands for
basically a melanocyte or melanin, which is,
as mom talked about earlier, is the pigment or
the color producing cells in your skin, which
cause certain people to be tan or black or brown
or whatever. And then carcinoma, carcin is essentially
just a catch -all term for cancer, like carcinogenic,
it's cancer causing. And carcin is actually,
it comes from the Greek word for crab. And because
a lot of when Greeks were looking at cancerous
growth on people, they say, oh, that kind of
looks like a crab on the skin. And if you know
anything about the zodiac signs, like the sign
of the crab in the sky is cancer. And that comes
from the ancient Greek or the ancient Latin and
Greek for crab, which is a really interesting
thing. There you go. Little pearl. So, okay.
So I'll just mention very briefly, we're not
going to go into this really, but know too that
some medications can make you what we call photosensitive.
That means you're going to be more sensitive
to getting sunburned. And you could talk with
your pharmacist or physician if you're prescribed
one of those. And again, you're going to just
want to be more sun protected if you're taking
one of those. So what would be an example of
a... medication that someone will be taking to
make them more sensitive to the sun um tetracycline
antibiotics um they definitely make you more
sensitive to the sun um some um diuretics um
Like furosemide that have more of a sulfur kind
of component in it. It's going to make you more
sensitive to the sun as well, too. There's a
long list of them. I'm sorry. I don't have it
memorized. No, it's okay. Is there a understood
mechanism for why that's the case? Yes. So there's
actually two different mechanisms. One is called
phototoxic and the other is called photoallergic,
which is less common. So the most common one
is phototoxic. It's not an immunologic immune.
system type response. And it happens because
there's an increase that the UVA light reacts
with certain medications within the skin. And
so that increases then the skin sensitivity to
sunburn. Okay. So when you take a drug, some
of that drug, because it just goes everywhere.
Right. And some of it, because it's carried by
the blood. Right. Will get into your skin. And
because the light interacts with that. drug or
the metabolite or how the drug is broken down
it will basically the sun changes its shape because
of the energy of the sun. And then that will
basically cause it to be somewhat toxic. Right.
Okay. That's really interesting. And I know I
thought it was really interesting. And it's also,
it's concentration dependent. So that means that
if we were all able to get the same concentration
of the drug in our skin, then we'd all have the
problem. But more, some people are just more
sensitive to that than others. Gotcha. So some
people have receptors in their body that are
more sensitive to that. toxic metabolite from
the sun, from these certain types of drugs. Or
maybe they just, for whatever reason, the way
their body has broken down the drug, it goes
into their skin more than others and stuff. And
so then the, then the UVA light is going to interact
with it more, more commonly. Yeah. That is so
interesting. That makes me think that, man, we
could go down a rabbit hole on this, but like,
you know, there are just certain days where you
feel bad. or you feel good and you really don't
know why. And I wonder if it's because like,
well, I ate that pizza pizza last night and it
got into my skin and the sun is interacting with
it. It's amazing how many things, yeah, how variable
human beings are. That's pretty incredible that,
yeah, you would take something, it gets into
your skin and then you could potentially feel
sick from that. It's so interesting. So, okay.
We've talked a lot about kind of, you know, why
on earth we, you know, get sunburn and kind of,
we've kind of, kind of, kind of touched a little
bit about what to do about it, but let's really
now talk about what to do about it. And again,
like Josh talked about avoiding sun exposure,
if you can, is a good idea. And especially between
10 AM and 4 PM, because that is when, um, I believe
it's UV. the UVA and UVB lights are the most
potent. And so that between 10 and 4, you'd like
to stay away from the outside or be protected
as much as possible. Wearing protective clothing
like wide brimmed hats or long sleeve shirts
or wearing sunglasses. Remember, I talked about
the fact that you can also get cataracts from
being exposed long term to the sun. And again,
it's because the UVA and UVB light can get into
the cells in your eye. And it's beyond the scope
for us to talk about it, you know, here and stuff.
But it can cause sun damage to your eyes as well,
too. It takes time for that to happen as well.
Um, and then, um, the other thing, the next thing
you want to think about is you don't go to a
tanning salon. Tanning salons actually have more
UVA and UVB light put out than the sun itself.
So they can be more damaging over time. Well,
it's also, it's just more concentrated because
you're literally right there at the source, right?
Because you know, this. Obviously the sun is
huge, but it's 93 million miles away. And some
of that is just, and it's also the earth is a
huge place. So a lot of that's just going to
get spread out to different places. Right. You're
literally there in the bed. Right. So not a good
idea to do that. And then if you can stay in
the shade, you know, when you're outside as much
as possible, that's also going to help. It's
funny because I actually read that the shade
isn't as protective as people think. The shade
will protect you from the heat. Because the heat
from the sun is not due to the visible light
of the sun. It's actually due to its infrared
rays, which are invisible rays that have a longer
wavelength than visible light. And that is where
the heat comes from. So a lot of times you are
in the shade, you're like, oh, I feel so much
less hot. But actually the UV rays are actually
still getting through. So even in the shade,
it's... still good to apply sunscreen, especially
if the UV index is still fairly high. Right.
And I think that what I'm saying, and I think
what Josh is alluding to as well too, is that
there's not just one thing to do to. mitigate
these um photo aging type um exposures but there's
there's several things that you can do concurrently
at the same time um to help protect yourself
um and and and your kiddos too if you're a parent
you know and stuff so yeah and i yeah especially
with the kiddos too like the incidents of melanomas
or carcinomas in kids is relatively low, almost
non -existent, mainly for the reasons that we
talked about is that cancers usually happen over
a long period of time. It's like if any of you
own a car, if you hear that sound in your car
and you ignore it for the next five to 10 months,
then whatever the wear and tear that's happening
in your car is going to build up. And over time,
it could potentially snap. either transmission
lines or whatever you're essentially talking
about in your car. And the same thing happens
in your body. Essentially, anytime that you go
anywhere or do anything, you are accumulating
certain types of damage in your body. And your
body's quite good at repairing a lot of that
damage. But if it can't keep up with the repair
to damage ratio, um is imbalanced then yeah that's
going to accumulate over time and there are things
that you can do like mom said to mitigate that
amount of damage but it's also not it's not fail
safe you know you could do everything right put
on all the sunscreen wear all the long clothes
and you could still get a melanoma or carcinoma
just because just like someone who maybe smokes
one cigarette or even is around secondhand smoke
can still develop some type of lung cancer so
A lot of these aren't guarantees. They're just
ways to tampen down the risk. Great. As far as
sunscreen is concerned, only sunscreens with
a sun protection factor of 15 or greater. have
been shown along, if you use them with the other
protection factors, those are the ones that can
reduce the risk of skin cancer and premature
aging. But if you have a, and I don't know that
I've really, well, yeah, I mean, in the old days,
like baby oil, you know, or Hawaiian Tropic with
nothing in it, that would definitely not. protect
you at all. So anything with a sunscreen with
a value of two to 14 may only mitigate sunburn,
but it's not going to have any effect on skin
cancer or premature aging. Yeah. And sunscreen,
remember the SPF factor really just correlates
or corresponds to your sunburn, your ability
to burn. So it's actually quite a bit of bonus
that you get to diminish your risk of skin cancers
as well, because they're, they're caused by the
same thing, which is UV light that you, uh, sunburn
they're caused by the same thing, but they have
a different mechanism of how the damages accrued.
Yes. Um, another interesting thing about sunscreen
itself is a, is a, is a word called substantivity.
Um, um, and so, um, it's spelled S U B S T A
N T I V I T Y. And what that means is it's how
well does the substance stick to your skin? So
that's going to be. It's going to determine how
well the sunscreen will or how effective the
sunscreen will be long term. And either if you've
got prolonged exercising, swimming or just sweating
in general. So and those those products that
are more cream based. So they're kind of a water
and oil, you know, kind of as a base are going
to be better at staying on your skin than something
that has an alcohol base because alcohol evaporates
a lot faster. That's a really good point. I think
getting into. this is a really good topic to
get into what sunscreen is and how it should
be applied and why do we apply it? So like mom
said, go ahead. I've got one more point before
you dive into that. So with this, with this,
you know, thing about this substantivity and
I'm, I'm thinking, I'm thinking I, I put sunscreen
on my kids, you know, and stuff, but just never
knew enough about it. So when you look at. at
sunscreens, it will tell you whether or not it's
water resistant or not. And it has to do with
this substantivity ability. And it will tell
you it's either it is water resistant for 40
or 80 minutes. And so sure enough, when you look
at sunscreens in the grocery store or at Walmart
or whatever, you definitely see that it says
that on the bottle. And so again, then you're
going to want to use that guide as to how frequently
you reapply it because it's only going to be
water resistant for 40 or 80 minutes. And we'll
talk about reapplication in just a minute. Yeah.
And by water resistant, do you just mean that
it's going to start becoming water soluble and
it'll just get into the water and wash off? And
then you're going to be at greater risk of getting
sunburn and the sun effects. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah.
When sunscreen, a lot of them basically have
this kind of, except for the sprays, a lot of
them have this lotion -like consistency to them.
But if you look at the inactive, let's just take
a look at some of the ingredients in sunscreen
and we can talk about, you know. I can do that
now if you'd like. Yeah, please. All right. Yeah.
So we, I think people are probably wondering
is like, all right, sunscreen's great, but how
does it work and what is inside of it that is
going to allow it to block out these UV rays?
So we have two basic types of sunscreens. They're
either a chemical sunscreen or what they call
a physical sunscreen. And a chemical sunscreen
absorbs and blocks UV radiation transmission
to the skin epidermis, so that top layer. So
it absorbs it and blocks it from having an effect
on the epidermis. And it will absorb at least
85 % of UV radiation at the most UVA, UVB light.
you know, and stuff. So, um, and there are 12
common sunscreen agents in, um, OTC over the
counter sunscreen products that fall into this
category. Interestingly. These products, although
they're available because they're over -the -counter
and they're in my sunscreen at home, they have
not been formally evaluated for safety and efficacy.
The studies just haven't been done. Again, because
these products have been around for a while,
and then there's been some concern about, oh,
I wonder if it's really safe and effective. So
some of that has not been done for these yet.
It doesn't mean you're going to die because you're
using them and stuff, but there is a lack of
information about them. And there's one point,
there's been a couple of studies that have shown
actually some systemic absorption of some of
these chemicals into the bloodstream. We don't
know how to interpret that. And so without a
study, you don't know how to be alarmed about
it or not. Well, yeah, actually speaking of that
study, that study was conducted by the FDA and
how they found out the absorption into the bloodstream.
Um, the dose that was applied to these individuals
to get it into the bloodstream was two bottles
of sunscreen over a four day period. Whoa. Okay.
Now most people on average use one bottle of
sunscreen a year. Yes. Um, most people are not
very liberal with their sunscreen cause it just
doesn't feel very, it, you know, you, you feel
a bit greasy. You feel like, you know, like a
buttered chicken. Um, but so don't you love his,
don't you love his, his, just his images. But
I think a lot of times with stuff like that,
like dose response is important. I remember there
was a time when people were saying that Diet
Coke caused cancer because there was a study
that was done in rats where they gave them an
inordinate amount of, what's the? Aspartame.
Yeah, aspartame, which is the sweetener, artificial
sweetener. But they gave it to rats at this absurd
level that would never be given. Unless you're
crazy drinking Diet Coke like my mom. She would
have loved that study. Sometimes you have to
take a lot of this with a grain of salt. That's
a great point, Josh. A grain of sunscreen. Because
yes, it is possible. But on some other planet
where you would have to apply two bottles of
sunscreen every week in order to survive. And
that might be Venus. Thanks for sharing that
with us. The other type of sunscreen is called
a physical sunscreen. And these ingredients have
been identified as safe and effective by the
Food and Drug Administration. And these are those
sunscreens that have kind of that opaque. opaque
or kind of cloudy kind of appearance. And it's
your zinc oxide and your titanium dioxide. And
so instead of absorbing ultraviolet radiation,
they reflect it and scatter it away. And so So
it, you know, the older, when I was, when I was
a kid growing up, I would just get a tube of
zinc oxide, like, you know, it's like desiccant,
like diaper ointment, just pour it over my nose.
And it was, I had a white nose, you know, and
stuff, but it was, it blocked the sun from my
skin. Now these ingredients are more, they've
got some ingredients added to these sunscreens
that are more translucent or they're more like
see -through and stuff. So it makes it so, I
mean, I actually have a bottle for. my grandkids.
And it's got zinc oxide in it, but you can actually,
it comes off kind of white, but you can actually
rub it in now and then you don't see it anymore.
So it's not as like, I've got sunscreen all over
my body. And again, it's got this mechanism of
being, you know, it deflects the sun rather than
absorbing it into your skin. Yeah, that's really
good. And yes, you might also hear these as organic
or inorganic, where one is containing carbon,
they're biological molecules, or inorganic, things
like zinc and titanium. These are just metals
that have bonded with oxygen. And I know there
is some concern with zinc oxide and titanium
oxide because the technology now of actually
getting them to be a little bit more transparent
and fine is that they actually are... They're
coated in nanoparticles, so essentially they're
very, very tiny. There is this concern that these
particles are small enough to not just be able
to be translucent and get on the skin, but actually
be better at getting into your bloodstream. Dioxides
actually can cross the blood -brain barrier and
actually can do some damage to neurons. That
is just speculative at this moment. It seems
more theoretical and some studies would need
to be done. There are sunscreens out there that
are non -nanoparticle base and you can get zinc
or titanium oxides that don't have this nanoparticle
technology. It might not be a good feel. Like
when you're rubbing it on, it might not be as
basically as a pleasant of an application experience
as these nanoparticles as that's what they were
designed to do is basically help spread and absorb
a little bit is into your skin. But there might
be this, you know, that's the thing is like when
you're using new technology. You kind of are
the guinea pig and you're figuring out if there
are risks associated with this new technology.
So you're just going to have to take a bet because
there's no evidence one way or the other. It
could just be that speculation on this or it
could be nothing. So I just wanted to put that
out there as well. Thanks. Of course. A couple
of last areas to talk about before we wrap up
today. First is dosing or administering sunscreen.
And so the recommendation is actually a whole
ounce of sunscreen. But it's broken up. It's
not like a whole ounce like on your leg, but
it's like a teaspoon per leg and a half a teaspoon
per arm, a half a teaspoon for your face. And
you may end up kind of doing that, you know,
and stuff. But just... But realize that you've
got to put on a sufficient amount for it to do
the work that it's intended to do. And then you
also want to apply it 15 to 30 minutes before
you're going to be exposed to the sun and reapply
it every two hours unless you get exposed to
water or excessive sweating or you dry yourself
off with a towel. Any of those then will require
you to reapply the sunscreen again. So to keep
it, you know, you know, working and stuff. As
far as a couple of special, was there something
you wanted to add to that, Josh, before I move
on? I just wanted to say, yeah, because the,
when you're, you want to think about sunscreen
almost as like a thin layer of paint. Like when
you're painting the room, it's the, the paint
isn't getting absorbed into the walls. It's basically
just covering the surface of the wall. And you,
because. That makes sense because you want to
limit the amount of UV light getting to your
skin. So what you want to do is you want to coat
that on. You want to let it dry because it basically
forms that kind of extra layer on the outside
of your skin. And then that is going to provide
that protective benefit. And being in Texas and
also being myself, I know I'm going to sweat.
And it's very hard to reapply sunscreen once
you're sweaty because sunscreen, by definition,
doesn't mix with water very well right so you
have to dry yourself off to put the sunscreen
back yeah you but at the same time you might
just get that early benefit prior to sweating
um and and that's still better than nothing uh
but you know Right. But that whole reapplication
thing, and he's still young and he doesn't know
what it's like really to get premature aging
or be at risk for skin cancer. So again, he probably
should still reapply that even if he does sweat.
That's true. But it's like, imagine, but you
have to imagine that practically because being
in like, I play soccer every week. And so like,
if I went out and played soccer. I'm going to
sweat in the first five minutes. Yeah. So you're
like, hold on guys, just a second. And then by
putting it on and they go back out again, hold
on, I got to do it again. So at some point it's
just not realistic to reapply. I think if you're
in a place, I think if you're in a place where
it's just really bright and sunny, but it's not
very hot outside. And I've definitely been to
some of those places where I'm like, I'm not
sweating, but it's the sun is really intense
right now. The UV index might be, you know, nine
to 12 or something like that. then I think that's
when it's really good to reapply it. But I think
when you're in a place like Texas, it's going
to be really hard to do that. And it's probably
better just to wear clothing that can... block
you from the sun. Right. And Josh has mentioned
the ultraviolet index a couple of times. Let
me just tell you what that is really quickly.
It was a number or an index that was created
by the Environmental Protection Agency in the
United States. And what it does is that it rates
the amount of ultraviolet radiation that reaches
the Earth's surface at a specific time at a specific
location. And the time of day, the season, altitude,
as well as land cover all affect this index.
And as the rate increases, then your exposure
risk increases. And so there's actually a table
that tells you whether or not you're at low,
medium, or very high risk for being exposed to
UV light. So just a little aside there. Yeah,
that's a good point. I think also people's intuition
doesn't go along with the UV index. Like the
hottest part of the day is usually around three
or four in the afternoon. But actually the time
that the UV index is usually the highest is around
noon because the sun is usually directly above
you. And so it's sending as many rays as it can.
So sometimes UV correlates with the hottest part
of the day, but sometimes it doesn't. And usually
heat is infrared rays instead of UV rays, which
causes that premature aging and sunburn and stuff.
Excellent. So let's talk about a couple of special
populations and application of sunscreen. Children
are our first category. Children less than six
months of age, little babies, they really should
not be exposed to the sun. You want to keep them
shaded or covered up as much as possible. And
applying sunscreen to them is also, that would
be up to your pediatrician because their skin
is so new and it's so... absorbable that, um,
applying a sunscreen, there might be some absorption
that you don't want for your kiddo. And again,
but just because we don't know that would be
a conversation that you'd have with your pediatrician.
So again, it's just keep them out of the sun
as much as possible. Keep them covered up. If
they are in the sun, we all like to take our
little babies in the pool and that's fine, you
know, and stuff and all, but just be wise as
you do that. Yeah. If they're out there for a
long time, maybe just put a little sun hat on
them. Right. Um, you know, Floaties, you know,
so that their whole body's covered up. Keep them
in the shade. Yeah. I think because you're really
trying to prevent them from burning rather than
skin cancer and aging. I mean, that's going to
happen. Although you are really, ultimately,
Josh, actually, you really are trying to keep
them from skin cancer and aging because that's
a, remember, it's a long -term process. And the
more we protect our kiddos at their earlier age,
the better they'll be protected long -term. True.
But you also, like you said, with the absorption
thing, you don't. Yeah. It's like, you're, uh,
you're just like mitigating a good, different
risk at different times. You're right. But you're
right. I mean, at the end of the age, you're
the parent and you have the choice to do what
you want for your kid, you know? So you're right.
And like, you wouldn't want to give your kid
a cigarette at one, you know, because that's
going to only set them up for potential lung
cancer earlier on. Um, yeah. So it's all about
that, um, you know, different risks at different
times of life. Right. And then kiddos over six
months of age, you definitely want to use sunscreen.
And I would recommend those sunscreens that are
more water resistant, you know, that have that
greater substantivity. And you want to use at
least a sun protection factor of 15 or greater
and stuff. So you want to reduce their skin cancer
chances. The other category of special populations
is pregnant and lactating women. Lactating meaning
breastfeeding women. First choice is to avoid
the sun, but you would then, if you want to be
out in the sun, you're just going to be wise
with discussing with your healthcare provider,
sunscreen choices that you feel like would be
safe for you. And probably the best options are
you're going to be your zinc oxide and your titanium
dioxide, because they have been considered safe.
They have been classified as safe and effective.
Yeah. It's really interesting in Europe. It's
actually. they, they, it's quite the, I wouldn't
say the opposite, but they, they have a lot more,
um, organic or chemical, um, um, additives in
sunscreen that they've actually approved to be
used over in Europe. But for some reason it hasn't
caught on in the States and I don't know why.
Uh, but it just seems like, yeah, the zinc oxide
and titanium oxide, uh, were the ones that have
been approved by the FDA. And I think there's
being a little more cautious, uh, with the other
ones just to make sure because cancer, unfortunately
is a very, It's a long -term disease, so you
have to monitor a population for a really long
time to get really conclusive evidence. The first
amount of evidence that we got for smoking causing
cancer, I think, was in the 50s. I think it was
this study that was done, and it was just done
over an incredibly long period of time. Even
tracking traumatic brain injury with football
players took a really long time because... It
didn't pop up immediately. It happened later
in life. Huntington's disease is the same way
if you want to look that up. It's one of those
genetic diseases that doesn't happen to usually
women until their 40s or 50s. So sometimes it
seems really cut and dry like, oh, it should
give you cancer or not. It's like, well, there
are so many factors that go into somebody's life.
that it's hard to isolate variables and you can't
do experiments and be like, well, we're just
going to stick you in a tanning bed for six months
and see what happens. That would be very cruel.
I wanted to bring up, because I know some people
are just a little more skeptical of anything
pharmaceutical and they don't want to use it
because they prefer the natural way. Well, didn't
we evolve to be in the sun? Why are we using
these things to protect us against ourselves?
And maybe it's actually causing more harm than
good. And there's this great epidemiological
study that was done with this natural population
because you're looking at people. You want to
look at two populations that are similar but
have different behaviors so you can isolate variables.
And if you don't think that the sun has any role
to play in sunburn or cancer or aging or whatever,
we have to look at people who primarily spend
their time indoors and primarily spend their
time outdoors. You look at construction workers,
people who work in fields, etc. And you look
at compared to people who work mainly indoors,
people who work in mines, people work inside
in offices, etc. And you can compare. First of
all, you can randomize it so that you put enough
people so that most of the variables are constant,
like things like age and gender and race, etc.
So that none of those things are going to be
controlled. And then if you look at the variable,
the independent variable. is a dependent variable.
Yeah, it's the dependent variable, which is going
to be sun exposure. The risk of skin cancer is
just so much greater than in the group where
they don't get exposed to the sun, which indicates
that the sun really does play a role. And then
you have to ask yourself, okay, How am I going
to protect myself? And I think that should be
your choice. Like you can use sunscreen or not.
We don't care. We're just giving you information.
But just be aware that, yes, it would be really
nice if we had natural mechanisms against the
sun. And I think sometimes you can do that by
avoiding the sun or potentially wearing clothing
if you consider that natural. But just know that
if you don't wear sunscreen, that you are just
going to be increasing your risk. of some of
these maladies. But at the same time, if you
use sunscreen, especially ones that could be
deleterious to your health, like stuff that hasn't
been approved by the FDA or... Um, even stuff
that might have the nanoparticles or, um, there
were actually even a couple of sunscreens that
were found to be toxic and they're not included
in sunscreens anymore. So that, you know, that
definitely did happen. Exactly. So it's, it's
really, it's, it's not a, you don't have to be
on team sunscreen or team non sunscreen. There
is there, there is a sunscreen out there that
will probably work for you if you want to use
it. And if you don't want to use it, that's fine.
But remember that, you know, there's no such
thing as a free lunch. And it would be really
nice if nature was good to us. But sometimes
she's just going to. Well, that's kind of a segue
into let's talk about a little bit about what's
misunderstood about sunscreens, okay? Some sunscreen
myths. The first one is that sunscreen alone
is enough to prevent skin cancer. And that's
false because like Josh said earlier, no sunscreen
blocks 100 % of ultraviolet light. And there's
also other risk factors for skin cancer in addition
to UV exposure like he also alluded to. You could
be immunosuppressed or you have a family. history
of skin cancer, or you're genetically predisposed.
So the second myth is I have dark skin, so I
don't need sunscreen. And that is not true. Although
increased melanin, pardon me, although increased
melanin does provides some protection against
UV radiation. Studies have found that UV radiation
does still induce damage to the skin in all skin
colors. It doesn't matter what skin color you
have. So no skin color or skin type is completely
ultraviolet resistant. Yeah, and I would have
to look at the data on this, but I'll bet you
that the incident rate of melanoma or carcinoma
is lower in people with darker skins, but it
doesn't mean that you... You don't have the chance.
It might just lower your risk of getting it,
but you still have a risk of getting it if you
don't apply sunscreen. Third myth, a baseline
tan is protective against skin cancer. And that
is absolutely not true. And again, remember we
talked about avoid tanning booth devices because
they're more dangerous than regular sunlight.
They emit UV radiation at higher levels than
what's found outside. And they emit more UVA
light than UVB light. Remember, UVA light promotes
tanning and premature aging, and UVB promotes
sunburn. But both can cause damage to the skin
and cause an increased risk for skin cancer.
Interestingly, a tanning salon is similar to
applying SPF 3 or 4. So again, it's only maybe
going to prevent sunburn, but it's definitely
not going to protect you against skin cancer
or premature aging. Gotcha. That's really interesting.
Okay. We talked about this too. Sunscreen prevents
my daily vitamin D need. And so while 90 % of
your vitamin D production is due to UV radiation
exposure. Studies are really contradictory on
looking at whether or not there's really an adverse
effect on vitamin D by putting on sunscreen.
Some of them said yes, some of them said no.
So we don't have really a definitive answer to
that yet. And like we mentioned earlier, there
are so many other vitamin D sources in our food
now, as well as taking just vitamin D supplements
in general, that probably most of us won't become.
vitamin D deficient. Yeah. And there's actually,
you can go on Amazon and actually get a vitamin
D test kit. Like you can test how much vitamin
D is in your body and there are recommended levels
that you should have in your body. And if you
are below that, you should either A, be getting
more sun, you know, especially early in the day,
or B, you should be supplementing with vitamin
D and, you know, you can get, you know. between
3 ,000 to 6 ,000 international units pretty regularly.
And we might do that in a future episode of the
difference between basically the vitamins. Does
dietary vitamin D, does that get to the places
that it needs to go just as effectively as making
it from the sun? Because it has to go through
the mouth and it has to get metabolized, go to
the bloodstream, blah, blah, blah. Um, so is
it as effective of getting in and, um, but that's
going to depend on the individual, which is why
you should probably get some blood work done
and know how much is in your body. Um, you can
have a fun little test you can do before and
after you'd like, you know, do it early in the
morning, see what's going on, go out for the
day and then test it again and then see how much
vitamin D you've got. Um, and, and you can, you
can understand, um, yeah, that. But to mom's
point, yeah, you will lose some of that ability
to make vitamin D with UVB light. But also due
to sunscreen application, most people don't apply
as much as they should just because it doesn't
feel very good. And so you'll still make some
throughout your body because most people don't
cover their whole body with sunscreen. So remember,
your whole body, whatever part of your skin is
exposed to the sun, it's going to make vitamin
D. So if you only got your face. and you didn't
get the back of your hands, then that's still
going to make the vitamin D. So it just depends
on what you cover. Right. I liked this next one.
There is sunscreen in my makeup, so I don't need
to apply sunscreen. And usually makeup only has
a sun protection factor of 15 in it. But as Josh
has been alluding to, we usually don't put...
enough makeup on to have enough sunscreen sun
protection factor in it to protect us against
sunburn so we should use sunscreen in addition
to our makeup unless you're in a beauty pageant
and then yeah then it's caked on um sitting under
it i liked this one sitting under an umbrella
is better than applying sunscreen well an umbrella
can block the direct uv uv rays but guess what
It doesn't block the rays that reflect off the
ground. Think about when you're at the beach
in the sand or water and stuff. So having the
shade with the umbrella plus some sunscreen is
going to be your best bet. And then all sunscreens
work similarly, so it does not matter which one
I use. This is not really the case. So like we
talked about, you've got... physical versus chemical
sunscreens. And then you've also got people with
sensitive skin. So you need to look at the ingredients
if you've got sensitive skin to make sure that
you don't apply something that could be bothersome.
It is recommended that the sunscreens with zinc
or titanium in them are better for people with
sensitive skin. Yeah. And one of the, the, the
world experts based out of Newcastle for sunscreen
and just, you know, photo aging recommends a
broad spectrum sunscreen. Cause remember most
sunscreens are just there to prevent you from
getting sunburned, but with a broad spectrum
sunscreen, and I would recommend also ones that
are free of oxybenzone because that has been
had small links. to leaking into the ocean and
causing some coral reef destruction that will
only applies if you live next to a coral reef.
So if you live in Florida, if you live in Australia,
but yeah, broad base protection. And he recommended
that you should have a mixture of chemical versus
physical. So you should have a bit of zinc oxide
or titanium oxide with some of these other safe
organic. molecules inside. By organic, I don't
mean organic at the grocery store. Organic is
a chemical term, meaning it has a carbon -based
structure to it. Some of those chemicals can
be found to be safe and effective on certain
websites. You can look at some of the sunscreens
in Europe that are sold either by L 'Oreal in
France or by Boots in the UK, and they list their
ingredients there. Um, and they haven't been
formally approved by the FDA, but you can still
get them in the U S um, and you can just compare
the ingredients cause they've been, if you're
fine with what's been approved in France and
UK, then you can still get those things here.
You know, they just, you know, they just haven't
gotten the stamp of approval, um, by the food
and drug administration. Um, and broad spectrum
when Joshua talks about broad spectrum sunscreen,
it means that it covers. It protects against
both UVA and UVB light. Correct. The last little
myth that I came across was that I do not need
sunscreen on a cloudy day. That is an absolute
no, because up to 80 % of UV rays can pass through
clouds. So know that that's not a protective
thing. So here are some takeaways for our discussion
today about sunscreen. We want to avoid exposure
to the sun and other sources of ultraviolet radiation,
such as tanning beds and booths and sun lamps.
So that, again, minimizing our exposure to the
sun is going to give us better skin when we turn
65, and also less chances for getting skin cancer.
The sun's rays are the most direct and damaging
between 10 a .m. and 4 p .m., so try to avoid
getting exposed to the sun during those time
periods as much as possible, or if that's not
possible, at least use some of the protection
factors that we've talked about. Sunburn can
occur on a cloudy or an overcast day, as we've
mentioned, so you want to be aware of that. And
wearing protective clothing is a good idea. like
tightly woven fabrics that won't allow the sun
is going to be good. Now, like Josh says, I mean,
it has been a hundred plus degrees in Texas all
summer long. Finally, we're getting a little
bit of a break from that. So, but I have still
seen the construction workers in Texas wearing
long sleeves because it's, you know, it's just
protecting them from being getting sunburned
and skin cancer. Absolutely. When you go to the
beach or if you're at the pool, try to use a
beach umbrella whenever possible as one of those
mechanisms to reduce your exposure to ultraviolet
radiation. Remember that water and wet clothing
will allow transmission of ultraviolet radiation
to your skin. So even if your skin is completely
submerged in the water, you still need to count
that time as part of your sun exposure time because
the water does not protect you, you know, but
only 5 % against ultraviolet radiation. Try to
look for a sun protection factor product of 15
or greater to give you greater protection against
long -term effects of skin cancer and premature
aging, but also sunburn as well. And I would
say on that, the lighter your skin tone, I would
say get a higher SPF. Because remember, SPF is
calculated by the amount of time that it took
for your skin to burn with or without. a sunscreen
and if you're a darker skin person it's going
to take a lot longer so you might be able to
get away with an spf of 15 to 30 whereas someone
who's a little more paler might need a 50 to
a 75 and then also remember your application
method and that it might not be as thorough as
the laboratory conditions so you might want to
you know get something a little bit higher to
increase the concentration of that inside of
it Just a reminder, as Joshua just mentioned
a few minutes ago, that broad spectrum sunscreen
product. So if you can find one that has both
the chemical as well as the physical sunscreen
components, that's going to be your best bet,
especially in people who have a sun induced disorder.
So like maybe you are. I'm sorry, I'm not even
thinking of what a sun induced disorder would
be right now. I apologize. photo toxicity or
photo allergy? Well, yeah, but it's not taking
photosynthesizing drugs because that's a different
thing. But yeah, you could have a photo allergy.
I guess if you're in the sun, you can definitely
have issues associated with that. And then if
you want to just reduce your sun exposure as
most as possible. So that broad spectrum product
would be the best for that. Make sure you apply
it at least 15 minutes before your sun exposure.
And then that whole thing about the one ounce
of sunscreen over your body, don't put it in
your eyes, but you want to put it over your face,
neck, arms, shoulders, the front and back torso,
and each leg and the top of your, don't forget
the tops of your feet. And men, especially, or
gals with short hair, don't forget your ears
and the back of your neck. Yeah, the back of
the neck is the one that always gets me. Yes.
And remember, we want to use a sunscreen that's
the most substantive or is the most water resistant
so that it will stay on your skin for as long
as possible. And reapply it according to the
label instructions, 40 or 80 minutes with the
water resistant products. And then at least every
two hours, if you're not being exposed to water,
but you're just sweating or just outside just
for that maximum effect. Remember that you check
the expiration date for a sunscreen product because
they can expire. Personal experience with my
younger son, had it used, gave him sunscreen
all over his back, went to South Padre, poor
child got extremely sunburned. Check the expiration
date. Um, snow and sand reflect ultraviolet radiation.
So you want to take proper precautions if you're
skiing or at the, at the beach, you want to make
sure. Yeah. I have a funny story about that.
My, uh, my college roommates, we went on a trip
right after we all graduated and we went to,
um, we went to Mount Rainier in Washington in
May and it was, it was literally covered in snow.
Uh, and we did this hike that was just covered
in snow. And when we got back to our place, I
looked at my friend. And the bottom of his eyebrows
were completely burned is because the sun was
shining really bright that day and reflecting
off of the snow. And so literally his eyelids
and eyebrows were just completely charred. And
it was, oh my gosh. So this really is a, if you
are in a place with really reflective things
like sand or snow, yeah, it really can happen.
I've seen that happen to my friend and we've
talked about it to this day. Make sure that you
keep your sunscreen out of direct sunlight when
you store it because that can reduce its potency.
That's how it works. Yes. And continue to use
sunscreen if you're taking a photosensitizing
drug, if you're taking a drug that makes you
more sensitive to the sun, or if you've got any
other types of skin -associated sun disorders,
just make sure you use a sunscreen. And if you
develop any type of an allergic reaction to a
sunscreen, it kind of goes without saying, stop
using it, you know, and then you might need to
contact your physician to figure out what's going
to work best for you. And that's about it. That's
all I got today about sunscreens. Man, I feel
like this is such a technical topic for something
that I thought was so simple. Me too. I learned
so much from this. And for all of our listeners,
I really hope that you did too. I know there's
a lot of information in this episode. And we
really hope that you learn something and pick
a sunscreen that's safe for you and your family.
And we hope that you have fun in the sun. I mean,
nothing is better than just going outside on
a nice, wonderful day and enjoying yourself.
And your future self will thank you for doing
the right thing now. As my mom's looking at me
like, yeah, you better put on some sunscreen
because you're going to be my age one day. That's
right. And I'll tell you right now. You think
you see wrinkles now. That's the thing about
being a health communicator. You can often feel
the weight of being a huge hypocrite because
the amount of times that I put on sunscreen is
so. He probably doesn't even own any. Yeah, I
actually just bought some yesterday after doing
research on this episode. I was like, I need
to buy some good sunscreen. So I definitely am
in y 'all's boat. where it's easy to talk about
and learn, but then when you're doing it, you
just want to go outside. You don't want to do
any of the prep work. So making it a part of
your routine will also be super helpful. But
also forgive yourself for making mistakes. Even
if you put it on one day a week, it's better
than zero. So start small. And we really hope
that you've enjoyed this episode and we hope
to see you next time. So with that being said,
my name is Josh Klaus. and i'm jennifer seltzer
and this has been another episode of your mom
on drugs see you soon see you later that was
fun that was really fun