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Tales from the trenches, stories forged in the fires of experience.

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Many of us don't actually plan on being in HVAC, we just end up in the HVAC and refrigeration

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industry.

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To learn more about HVACR, visit escogroup.org.

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All right, thank you all for joining us.

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We're hanging out with Ranger Norbert.

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Ranger, how are you today?

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Good morning, how are you?

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I'm doing good.

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We had a really interesting conversation when we were hanging out at the AHR Expo.

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Many times we talk about how we end up in this industry and it's kind of funny when

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I start calculating the amount of friends that I have that ended up in the industry

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that didn't plan to be in the industry, it's pretty significant.

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Yeah, it's funny how life kind of molds your course.

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I mean, you have some control over it, but sometimes I guess you can chalk it up to feet.

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The only people that I have that conversation with that say, oh yeah, I planned on spending

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my career in HVAC were maybe the ones that started in an HVAC family owned business,

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but the rest of us, we just end up there.

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So tell me a little bit about how you got into the industry because I love this.

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This is just a prime example of how fascinating HVAC and refrigeration is and so sometimes

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it just hooks us when we least expect it.

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So way back in the day when I was in high school, I really had no particular career

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path planned out and my father who was prior military, he had suggested that maybe the

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military would be something that would be in your interest.

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And I agreed and two weeks after I graduated high school, my father drove me down to Cape

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Ames, New Jersey, which is where the boot camp is for United States Coast Guard.

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And he dropped me off and said, come back better boy.

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So I made it through boot camp.

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Funny thing is I personally, I actually enjoyed the experience and I was fortunate enough

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to out of boot camp, I was assigned to a ship and when on the ship, there's two different

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engineering divisions.

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One's called main prop and the other one's called A-Gang and main prop basically works

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on anything in the engine room itself for propulsion and A-Gang works on everything

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else.

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They work on the air conditioning, all the steam.

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HVAC plumber, electrician.

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No, not so much plumber, but air conditioning, the steam kettles and equipment in the kitchen,

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the sewer system, any kind of auxiliary equipment we took care of.

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And as we discussed before, I had no prior knowledge as to how an air conditioning system

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worked or the refrigeration cycle or anything.

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My kind of thought in my head at the time was I wanted to be a heavy equipment operator

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and a mechanic.

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And I'm glad I didn't pick that course.

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Well, I mean, to be fair, when you're a young guy, you can lay on a concrete floor for hours,

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but as we get older, not that our industry isn't tough on our physicalness.

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But some are definitely harder than some.

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Anyway, so I fell into air conditioning just by that.

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And as we spoke, or the story I tell, my first experience on the ship, I'm a young guy, 17

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years old.

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Okay.

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And they took me aside and said, your first job is to go down.

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And I had to learn all this terminology because I didn't know anything about it.

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So your first job on the ship is in every morning when you get up before you go to breakfast,

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you need to go down to dry stores.

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And we had one walk-in freezer and two walk-in refrigerators down there.

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And every morning my job was to go down.

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And they gave me a little wrench, similar to this one, which I'll tell you the story

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about this as well.

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But they gave me a little crescent wrench like that.

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And they said, Ranger, your job is to go down.

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Actually, they don't claim it first name, a fireman, not a ranger.

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Your job is to go down.

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And they walked me up to one of the expansion valves that were mounted on the, actually

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on the outside of the walk-in core, which is kind of odd too.

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So my job was to take the end nut off and back the expansion valve out all the way and

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count the turns.

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It's real important you count the turns.

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And you could hear the moisture.

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I was lice at that time.

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It would just let loose.

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Right?

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And I was like, wow, that's weird.

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That's interesting.

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What's this?

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And then make sure you count the turns when you turn the step back.

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Right.

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And then I would go down to whatever it was, six or seven and a quarter.

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And I did that religiously for about six weeks.

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And then another new guy showed up and that now became his job.

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And then they found something else for me to do.

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Never really explained what you're doing.

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This is how it goes.

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No, this is your job.

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And later on, I realized, well, obviously the thing was full of moisture.

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Exactly.

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And I understand the mentality of the military is that they'll do things like this knowing

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that it's incorrect, but it gives somebody something to do.

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And maybe hopefully they understand why you're doing it.

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Right.

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Kind of like swabbing the deck.

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I mean, obviously the right answer was to remove the moisture from the refrigerator

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and recharge it.

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Right.

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And then they wouldn't have a job for these young guys that come on the ship.

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They have no idea.

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That's crazy.

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So that was my very, very first job in the industry.

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Since then, I've learned a boatload of stuff about air conditioning refrigeration on the

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ship.

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I had really good mentors on the ship and they got me interested in it.

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And I kind of had an affinity for it.

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It's the first time in my life that I felt that it's something I understood.

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You're a part of something.

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Yeah.

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But I understood it.

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I mean, I'm dealing with engines and all that and I did diesel work too, but I really understood

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it.

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I had it in my mind's eye and I was like, wow, this is kind of cool.

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And just from there, I was on the ship for 18 months and then they sent me down to New

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York, town of Virginia.

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I went to A school, which is that kind of qualifies you for your job when you become

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a petty officer.

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And part of that, there was refrigeration and heating and air conditioning and that

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as well.

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So you got into the instructional side of it.

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Well, no, I didn't get the instructional side.

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I got more training on it, more formal training.

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And then I decided not to make the military my career.

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I fell in love.

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Boy, doesn't that change things.

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Yes, it did.

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I made a conscious decision that it wasn't going to be my career path.

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And I had made arrangements a year before I completed my enlistment obligation.

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And I signed up for air conditioning school in Pensacola, New Jersey, which at the time,

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I believe it was Lions Tech and then it was bought out by Lincoln Tech.

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Oh, yeah.

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And one of my personal friends growing up also was a student that at that time at the

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school that was at Genoa.

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So we actually met and I've known each other since we're, you know, almost just out of

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10, 11 years old.

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And, you know, it's just funny that we all fell into this right at the same time.

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So anyway, and then after that, I was going to I was going to set the world on fire.

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Yeah, exactly.

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In the air conditioning industry.

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So here I am.

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This will be my this is my 41st year.

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Holy cow.

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So you've seen a lot of changes along the way.

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I mean, from turning a wrench on an expansion valve to let the moisture pass through because

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it froze overnight and the probably in the metering device to dive in deeper into what

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those devices are.

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Oh, my God.

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I've been well when I started, there was four refrigerators.

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There was it was 12, 502, 22 and 500.

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Those are the four.

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Exactly.

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You know, and that was the days of, you know, purge and go.

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I mean, that's what it was, you know, right, wrong or different.

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And I also had was fortunate enough to have a lot of great mentors in my career.

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I got to work fortunately under Jack Rice for two years.

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I had some I had a really good service manager that we worked together in two different companies.

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His name was Jeff Crane.

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And he's the fellow that, you know, instilled in me.

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And this is in the mid mid to late 80s.

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You know, you need to use micron gauge.

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You know, you have to evacuate.

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Yeah, you know, as practice, you got to use best practices.

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And that was instilled in me right literally from the beginning.

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Me leaving the military and starting out my career on the civilian side.

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So I was very, very fortunate to have those type of folks to be able to learn from them

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and work from them and instill that ethic.

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It's interesting to to recognize that we were, you know, some of the industry was teaching

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best practices even then.

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A lot of people think about the old times ago.

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Oh, you guys didn't do anything right.

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Well, it was a lot of emerging best practices and emerging best technologies.

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We were transitioning into a new era of refrigeration and air conditioning.

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And so a lot of times we weren't taught things, maybe not properly.

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You know, if we think about that whole mentoring side that you're talking about, a lot of people

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didn't have good mentors and good education early on in the industry.

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So a lot of bad habits were formed along the way.

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So you're fortunate to be able to have a mentor or some mentors along the way, which is what

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we're really trying to encourage is for people to find mentors, find those people who are

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doing things right and just draw to them.

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I mean, and I agree.

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I think that the boy I know that all the things that we know today were around 40, 50 years

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ago.

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No, they weren't.

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That was our industry.

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The industry, unfortunately, at least at that time, was an industry of shortcuts.

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Yes.

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All right.

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This is what we need to do, but what can I get away with or what can cut my time down

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or what can make, you know, get me out of the job faster?

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And a lot of, how ever you want to look at it, those original, the CFCs and the HFCs

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were pretty forgiving for a lot of things.

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So we got away with a lot of sins.

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We really did as an industry.

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And now our industry is at the point, sophistication wise, where that's just not possible.

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No, it's not allowable.

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It's not.

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No, it's not.

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And I think that we're in for a very exciting time and a very challenging time.

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It's going to be a challenging time.

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Yeah.

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I mean, so I mean, I also am an instructor at Model Academy Locational.

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I teach the second year apprentice program.

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I've been doing it for about eight, my eighth year.

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And I enjoy that too.

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That's one of the reasons I do it.

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I don't do it for the number one reason I do it.

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I just enjoy it.

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And I enjoy passing down everything that I've learned to some other folks.

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But I have what I call Rangers 92-8 rule and 8% of everyone, and you could probably apply

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this to anything in life, but 8% of the industry is right there.

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They're on top of things.

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They're constantly trying to improve themselves or trying to stay with everything.

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And then the bell curve after that 92% falls off.

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Oh, you're right.

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So I try to, my personal thing is I try to elevate that as any way I can.

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You know, when I, I also, part of my job role at where I work is, you know, to bring my

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employees, as well as my customers up to speed.

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And I'm like, guys, I'm here for you.

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This is what we know today.

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Take it for what it is.

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If you don't want to adhere to what I'm saying or you don't want to, that's fine.

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But I mean, you're going to get left out.

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Suffer the consequences.

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Yeah, it's exactly it.

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It's just, you know, the, you know, I was thinking about the other day, I'm working

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really hard to try and come up with some stuff, 5,000 foot view with ATLs.

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And one of the things I recommend is your programs.

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And there's a couple other ones that are great out there too, but you got to stay on top

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of this.

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It's still evolving.

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It's an emerging part of our industry.

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The refrigeration part of it is if you've been doing what we discussed before, it's

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the no brainer.

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It's not a big deal.

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That's exactly right.

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It goes hand in hand with it.

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If you're doing all right, it's all the other stuff that we've never dealt with before.

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That's still an unknown.

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It's still, you know, we got to stay on top of it.

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So when it comes time that we're as prepared as we possibly can be.

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Yeah, on our live show later today, we're actually going to be diving into R290.

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So A3 refrigerants and, you know, highly flammable refrigerants and understanding how to work

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with those.

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And the funny thing is, is just like with ATLs, it all comes back to if you're already

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doing best practices, it's not going to change your life.

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Correct.

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And, you know, somebody else, there was on LinkedIn, there was somebody else that had

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posted something about A3s.

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And again, like I said, I had a lot of great mentors personally, and I had a lot of great

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mentors that I read about guys like Gil Carlson and Dan Kramer and Jack Ries and all those

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folks.

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And Daniel Kramer, his family, if you don't know the background, they were the family

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from Kramer Refrigeration, which is now Trenton Refrigeration.

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Oh, okay.

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Sure.

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And Danny was a little, he was an attorney, but he was also a chemical engineer.

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And he wrote, he has papers out there from 40, 50 years ago, trying to promote natural

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refrigerants.

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Absolutely.

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I mean, that far back.

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He's just like, this is the way the industry needs to go.

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And they were talking in the 1960s, early 1970s.

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But he was, until he passed, he was always a proponent of natural refrigerants.

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So there's, that part of the industry has always been out there.

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It's just a way to harness it and, you know, make it, you know, make it make sense.

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Exactly.

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And that's what we're here for is to help, you know, bring these nuances up in forefront.

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We talk about like R290, we've been using R290 and other flammable refrigerants since

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the late 1800s.

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I mean, one of the reasons we came up with CFCs is to get away from the flammability.

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You know, we've seen this year in March in Europe, we've seen most major manufacturers

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in Europe introducing R290 standalone heat pump, air to water source units.

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So basically an outdoor heater slash chiller, right?

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For residential applications using R290.

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We're going to see those here.

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We have a bunch of our manufacturers of refrigeration, commercial refrigerations already R290.

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We've been doing it for going on a decade now.

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So we're going to see a lot of emerging refrigerants, flammables, mildly flammables, everything

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in between, and making sure that we make these connections with mentors in the industry,

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people who are progressing and trying to do things right and using best practices.

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They're going to be the most important part of our success.

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Yeah.

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And it's funny you mention that because again, not to mention my friend Ed, but I will.

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We've had many discussions on this subject when we get together and we still look at

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each other and go, when is that going to happen?

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You know, it's just, I mean, there's other things too.

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There's CO2 out there.

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There's, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on in Europe.

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That's pretty exciting that I try and keep my eye on.

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I do too.

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You know, there's, there's more than one way to proverbially skin a cat.

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And they're out there.

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So I, you know, I think that short term, you know, we had to do what we had to do in this

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country to conform.

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But I think in long term, I think there's a lot of things out there that need to be

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really looked at hard as future alternatives to what we're faced with now.

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So absolutely.

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Completely agree.

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All right, Roger, we sure appreciate your time.

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We love the conversations about getting into the industry and look forward to reconnecting

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again sometime soon.

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Absolutely.

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It was an honor and a privilege and I'm glad we get to speak and hopefully we'll see each

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other again soon.

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Sounds good, my friend.

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Thank you for your time.

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Have a great day, everyone.

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Mommy Boo-jang!