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Tales from the trenches, stories forged in the fires of experience.

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Education is a lifelong learning experience.

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Learn more about Harvey and what he is doing to educate the industry at certified HVAC

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training on Facebook.

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All right thank you all for joining us once again.

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We're hanging out with Harvey Kaplan.

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Harvey how are you today?

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Oh I'm doing well this morning.

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Nice to see you.

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Harvey we spent quite a bit of time at the National HVACR Education Conference talking

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about how training and training programs have changed over time and through different generations.

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Could you tell us a little bit about what education and what the training of a HVACR

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technician looked like when you were coming into the field?

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Sure.

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I started out as an electrician working doing mostly residential little light commercial

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electrical work and I had a reputation of being a pretty good control guy.

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And back in those days when you bought an air conditioner or what have you or a boiler

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or a furnace in that matter you got a box of parts and you got a water and things.

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You didn't get a package unit as almost everything is today.

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So after a few years air conditioning was a virgin industry and I was offered a job

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which gave me a third raise and I had a wife and two children and you know and a mortgage

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payment and all those good things that came with making two dollars and fifty cents.

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What year was that that you started Harvey?

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1961.

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So you've seen a lot of changes in your time frame.

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Oh I've seen it and so anyway when I went to work for the first company in air conditioning

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and refrigeration we had to learn mostly on the job one of the stories I'll tell you this

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and you'll love this one.

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One of the guys that I was working under at that time it was eight nine ten o'clock at

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night it was dark and we were up on this roof and we took 16 screws out of a door and hinges

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on it in those days.

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And now it's late at night I want to get out of there.

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So I figured we don't have to put all ten of those screws back and I threw half of them

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off the roof.

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Then the guy that I was working with got really upset he went down to the truck and brought

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up new screws because those screws have to go back in there so you'll learn something

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with that too.

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So that was part of the training was on the job training but the boss handed me I don't

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know probably during the first week a copy of modern refrigeration and said you need

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to learn stuff.

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And so you know I'm an anal person and I and started reading that and spent probably the

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next couple of years going through that book to learn so that could be better.

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I wanted to be as good in air conditioning and refrigeration as I was in electrician.

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So and then that's how I got started in this business.

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I myself started on modern refrigeration.

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We had a copy on one of the shelves in our office and when we had questions we sat down

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opened up modern refrigeration and we learned about things.

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Yeah and well you know it was kind of different in those days because you know there were

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not as many air conditioning companies back in those days doing residential.

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I mean I often tell the story when I'm teaching a class that we carried at least 100 belts

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on the truck because all the blowers and the furnaces were belt driven.

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Oh yeah almost every day.

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They were either a 48 or a 56 frame motor generally around a half horsepower.

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When we put the air conditioning we had to change the motors because they would be really

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a fractional of maybe a quarter to a third prior and we couldn't move enough air.

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Exactly.

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And you know in this day and age it's my opinion it's 75 percent of the issues with service

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is airflow.

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Airflow airflow airflow.

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Yeah so and I generally always ask the question well what do we do with about airflow and

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half the students will miss the fact that we have airflow outside.

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That's right.

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Okay I just put out a video on capacitors of checking them and the reason is if you

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don't check a capacitor while the unit's running how do you know if that room fan is running

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too fast or too slow.

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Yeah very true checking it under load.

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You know a lot of people don't teach that and it's very important to know how a motor

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is operating while it is running with the capacitor.

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I don't know if you saw the video or not I just put it out the other maybe last week

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or the week before.

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I'm an old man I get to be forgetful.

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You know but it's wonderful to know that you know we are never too late in the game to

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learn a new technology or new innovation.

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You know our industry is moving at an incredibly fast pace but we've always had change and

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we've always had new things coming to our industry.

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We just have to embrace change.

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I can only imagine the different things that you've encountered along the way.

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So tell us how you how you prepared how did you get through these changes.

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Well let's look at this in the beginning we were looking at R12.

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That's right.

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Okay and you know and you still remember certain things you remember the fact that in R12 in

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air conditioning your coil was somewhere around 40 PSI's 40 degrees rather and actually it

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was 40 PSI's close to that and then we went to 22 which was supposed to be the answer

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to every day.

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Then it went up and you know what they said then how are we going to deal with these high

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pressure.

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Oh my goodness look how high these things are.

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That's from 40 to almost 70.

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It was like why why would you do that.

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Was there a lot of grumbling in the industry.

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No I don't really think so because it was a different breed of people.

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Okay.

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The majority of the workers were just workers you know and they didn't learn the service

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and which is probably as far as I'm concerned the best thing to be.

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Yeah so do I.

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Okay so they didn't want to learn that.

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I'll tell you this story about I went on vacate when I was in business for myself and one

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of my friends called in and my head guy went out there and he's in the my friend said to

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him just put a whole new system in.

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He said I can't do this.

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I know you're Harvey's friend and he says now it's okay I'm authorizing it.

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He would not do it.

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My best guy would not put a new unit he says because Harvey always has will come back and

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do something in this unit will ruin.

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So and I did.

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When I came back I went there I put a hard start kid on there and it ran for three more

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years.

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Right.

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Absolutely.

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I to this day tell everybody in every class that I teach do not put a unit in the air

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conditioning wise without a hard start kit and if it's got a scroll or a reset compressor.

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Okay.

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You really need that extra push it.

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Even though you got all these timers on thermostats or on boards or things of that nature.

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You know so I tell him hey you got to have a hard start kit and today it's easy because

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you don't have to put a potential relay in all that stuff that we did and I still teach

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the fact of how a potential relay works.

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It's fun to ask them is this a normally open or normally closed switch and they can't figure

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that.

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You guys see.

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Yeah.

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So there you get to teach the back EMF.

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Yeah that's right.

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So but now technology is changing now we're going to variable speeds but at any rate those

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are some of the things that guys just don't know but and then I look at some of the stuff

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today and some I see these bad installations.

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Oh you mean on like social media.

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Yeah I saw one on Facebook the other day an attic installation where I guess it was a

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replacement and they put the furnace in upside down or the air hammer and a drain was coming

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out the top.

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This is a unique way of.

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I mean that's going to be unique.

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And you see these things and you say who's doing it.

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What it was me the most.

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OK.

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Is our industry is saying hey we don't have the workers or the amount of people but I

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think there's a there's a good labor market out there that I don't see people going after

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and that's the veterans that are coming out of the service.

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I really believe that we can give some of them a job and get them trained.

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Get them.

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I'm a big fan of apprentice schools.

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Yeah absolutely.

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I'm involved with one now.

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I think some of the community colleges that are teaching HVAC don't have a lab.

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How do you teach without a lab with the hands on it because the majority of new people that

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we get are hands on type of learning.

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Oh absolutely.

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We've definitely seen a change in that if we think about the programs that we had even

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just in high school.

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There was a time when shop classes and mechanical classes and even electrical classes were the

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norm.

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I think that my generation I'm a generation X we were probably the last ones that witnessed

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that type of curriculum that was really being promoted in the high school environment.

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I myself had basic electrical and electricity classes in high school where we were actually

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tearing apart control boards and building small solid state circuitry controls.

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As freshmen by the time I had graduated that class wasn't even in existence anymore.

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So we've seen a departure from a lot of those fundamental hands on mechanical and interactive

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courses that went away that we are starting to see again.

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Even here at HVAC excellence we're starting to see more high school programs that are

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building in HVAC and refrigeration and even some of the newer innovative sciences for

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like solar photovoltaic that is emerging technologies that are being introduced at high school and

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our vocational levels.

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Oh I think so.

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It was an interesting fact that came out this week from I don't know some federal agency

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that said it's the lowest level that are going to college this year.

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It's down to 62 percent.

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A lot of the students are into the blue collar jobs.

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So I mean I heard that this week.

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I don't know how true that is but it certainly makes sense to me.

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So yeah I mean absolutely.

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We think about college for decades we push that college was the only path to go for education

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after your high school diploma.

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So we really pushed people to go to college.

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Pushed to go to college.

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Well I was one.

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I went to college just to get there and find out that I really just wanted to work on stuff.

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So I ended up getting into the mechanical fields which ended up being the trades and

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went oh wow this is really where I wanted to be.

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But I didn't even know what my resources were until I actually got into the field and went

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oh well this is what I'm good at.

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Oh yeah well listen you know there if they're into an apprentice program or they're into

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just going to community college to get some of the fundamentals which is all good.

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Okay although I'm a big believer in the apprentice program split.

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But you need an organization to sponsor them.

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Exactly.

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So the community colleges aren't doing that.

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But at any rate they need to learn the fundamentals.

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I mean you know I'm a big believer in fundamentals.

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If you notice when I do the instructor workshops it's always about fundamentals because if

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you understand the refrigeration system, the mechanical refrigeration system because that's

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what most of them are working on, totally understand it, what the condition of the refrigerant

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is, what each of the component parts do, how that heat gets transferred and so on.

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And why do we compress it?

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Okay obviously we compress it to raise its temperature so that we can be higher than

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the ambient around it.

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Whether it's water cooled or air cooled it doesn't make any difference as far as why

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we do it.

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So those are the things that I always enjoyed service.

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But if you don't understand what the condition of refrigerant is you can't do that.

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I always used to when I was working the service desk for a couple of manufacturers and I would

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get these calls in this day and age and they would say, hey you having a bad run of boards?

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Why yes.

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Well I've put in three and I still have the same problem.

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Did you ever think it's not the board?

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Hmm let me think.

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I mean that's one of the things I enjoy teaching is how to serve the board.

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Oh yeah absolutely.

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The problem is they'll take their voltmeter and put it across R and C and say I've got

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24 volts but I'm not getting the contactor to pull in over there.

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Well you think maybe the contactor's bad?

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Okay dragging down the board from the other side?

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And so I go through this of showing them how to do it.

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Of course one of the things that I really do not like is more X plugs but that's another

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story for another day.

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What I tell students to do if you're scrapping a furnace that has all X plugs.

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Save some.

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Save the plugs in with about six or eight inches of the wire as much as you can get

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on it thing so that you can test those things and you know and so on and so you know that's

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the world today.

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I mean I'm an old man and I still enjoy doing the teaching I mean fortunately I don't have

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to but I do it because I.

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Exactly.

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And it keeps me up to date with what goes on in this world.

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That's right that it does.

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You know and the technology today the tools that you have today and I tell these one thing

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that when I was working service for companies and I would go out to a job because a guy

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was having a problem that we couldn't solve over the phone and if he handed me because

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I didn't I had a trunk full of tools but you weren't using my tools unless yours went bad.

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So if you handed me one of them 39 cent screwdrivers you got at the drugstore I'd probably throw

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it at you.

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You're not tearing up my hands.

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Yeah that's right I paid good money for this.

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You're laughing but you know that that's a true stupor.

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Oh yeah absolutely been there myself.

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I mean and then you get the one when you go out there the unit's sitting in a 45 degree

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angle and you know hey don't you take any pride in your work and there are a lot of

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them and you see those pictures on the internet all the time on Facebook and YouTube and what

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would that be.

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You know one of the things I just absolutely cannot stand to hear is the term you can't

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teach an old dog a new trick because there are so many things to learn and education

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when done sincerely is a life long opportunity and you my friend are a prime example of why

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we should never stop looking at the new technologies and the new innovations in our industry.

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Harvey do you mind tell me how old you are.

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I'm 83.

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83 years old and you have your own YouTube channel and Facebook channel.

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Harvey let's tell everyone where they can find you.

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On either one it's under certified HVAC training.

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Whether it's on YouTube or Facebook both of those are mine.

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On YouTube it's just the videos you can go into videos.

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On Facebook if you go to that you have to join because I made it a private channel because

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there's too much BS on some of these sites that I get on where a guy says you know a

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guy asks a legitimate question and then you get guys on there that say just berate him.

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I can't say right now with some of them actually say and that bothers me and that's why I made

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it private so that I could if you did that on my channel you're going.

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Exactly.

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I mean that's the way I am.

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Harvey Kaplan you're one amazing individual and I'm grateful to know you.

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Everyone check out Harvey at YouTube and Facebook and I look forward to seeing you next year

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at our HVAC excellence conference.

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I'm sure Randy won't be in there but it's always a pleasure to be with you.

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Thank you.

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You too my friend.

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Alright.

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Let's continue talking.