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softened your senses ways to become a better speaker listener and

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follower. Today's episode brought to you by UEI test instruments.

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Take a look at all their products at UEI test.com.

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All right. Thank you all for joining us so much today. Today

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we're hanging out with my good friend Luis Keller from UEI. Luis

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hello. Thank you for having me Clifton. Absolutely. So tell us

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a little bit about yourself Luis and how you got into the

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industry before we dive into today's topic. Well, you know,

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I've been fortunate enough. I've worked for UEI test

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instruments for almost the last eight years of my life. It'll

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be eight years in July. I actually came from a very

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diverse background, retail, retail management and optical

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right before I came to UEI. And this has been a great learning

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opportunity for me. I've had a history in my jobs of jumping

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into industries that I just didn't really know a whole lot

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about. And so if you would have asked me about eight years ago,

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what a combustion analyzer did, what a meter did, a manometer

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or any of those things, I would have my eyes kind of glazed

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over and I said, Okay, I'll figure it out. And after going

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through a lot of training, a lot of research, a lot of you know,

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just learning activities, being out in the field, getting to

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talk to everybody I've gotten from just being one of our

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customer service teams, to being our national training manager

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for UEI test instruments. Okay, so at the national training

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level, I am sure you have encountered many different

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varieties of how to learn how to use tools, right?

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Absolutely. I mean, everybody has a little bit of a different

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learning style. So you know, some people, you can just tell

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them something, and they're going to remember it, and

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they're going to be able to repeat it back, and they're

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going to be able to provide that skill. Other people need a

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combination, they need something like they have to have the

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visual stimulation to be able to understand it. Exactly. And you

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know, the most comprehensive is when you can have a mixture of

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being interactive, but also having the base knowledge, the

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fundamental stuff, exactly. So when I do some of my training,

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you know, I do a lot on the dangers of carbon monoxide and

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combustion analyst, analyzation. The best classes are when I get

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to do something like go through our PowerPoint slides. So you

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have the basics, right? So you can see, you can see, but then

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when we get to go out into the lab and actually perform a

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combustion analysis, you get a touch exactly because then you

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get to hear. Yes. All right, now I'm in. All right. Because you

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know what I felt like it for me when I came to the industry,

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there were a lot of puzzle pieces, and they were all just

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scattered out there on the table and you didn't know where the

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edges were, you couldn't find the middle, you couldn't. And

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then all of a sudden, you start putting it together. And then

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one day, the pieces all just magically click for you. And

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it's that combination of having the audio, the visual, and being

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able to get out there and actually do it.

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Now, one thing that I personally, maybe it's my own

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perception, but one thing that I see out in the industry is a

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tendency for us not to be willing to accept new

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technologies very comfortably. In my personal opinion is that,

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you know, as we were, let's say we were growing up, we were, we

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were learning the industry, and we were taught a certain

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particular way. And we connected to that learning, because maybe

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it interacted to us all visually, physically, and

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audibly. And so we made a connection to that learning

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style. So even though technology is transitioning, maybe we are

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not comfortable teaching new technology, because what

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resonated to us may resonate differently to a newer

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generation of technicians. Is that something you see on a

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national level? I do. And you know, I think it's one of those

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things is that the next generation that's coming up, they

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grew up very differently than than what I did. You know, one

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of one of the things that I see a lot of times is that we want

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to go back to the old technologies because they had

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the fundamentals, right? At the end of the day, whether you're

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using something that has an analog gauge, or you have

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something that's a digital gauge or a wireless gauge, the numbers

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aren't going to change. No, it's just how you're looking at it.

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Yeah, exactly. And I think we need to change our perspective

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and maybe look a little bit to those future technologies. You

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know, one of the examples that I like to use is that you don't

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need to know how to an abacus works to be able to use a

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calculator. Oh, yeah, that's a great one. You know, it a

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calculator works, you understand the the principles of your

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addition, your math, your addition, subtraction,

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multiplication, division. But how that calculator actually

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works, it's going to give you the same numbers at the end of

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the day. Exactly. So going back to learn that old technology

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just kind of seems like a little bit of spinning of the wheels.

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Right. So why not move to the newer technology? And the next

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thing is, is the new generation, the next generation that that

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we're teaching that we're cultivating, everything's tied

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into smartphones right now. Absolutely. It's in some kind of

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digital technology. There's just no way around it. And I mean, I

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think we're all probably guilty of it. You know, we have our

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cell phones, we don't have to remember anybody's telephone

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numbers, right? Our phones do it for us. Last time we looked into

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an actual phone book. Do they still even make those? I haven't

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seen one in a while. I mean, they make excellent doorstops.

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But why? I can just Google Clifton if I wanted to, you

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know, find something. And it's the same information. It is.

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Yeah. So whether it's the same information, we're just

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digesting it a little bit differently. Yeah, you know, so

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true. And so I think it's an important part of what our

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future is going for. I don't need to know how a sling

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psychrometer actually works. I just need to know how how wet

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bulb or dry bulb and all of that. We can show those older

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technologies after we've taught them what those meanings are.

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Right. But get those actual fundamentals down. Yeah. And I

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just I can't blame the next generation right now for not

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knowing some of those things because they've never seen them.

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Exactly. You know, I can tie that back into, you know,

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refrigerant charging. Can I teach somebody how to use a

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dial a charge to charge a refrigeration system? Yes,

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absolutely. I can. Can I teach them how to use a set of digital

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scales and pressures and temperatures to do the same

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charging? Absolutely. What am I teaching on the things that are

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most relevant for the industry and the industry going forward?

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So it's just a different approach. And we try to help

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remove some of that stigma of new technologies, because we

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really do have to help our young technicians learn in an

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environment that is comfortable for them and the way that they

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can actually relate.

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Exactly. And I think, you know, the next generation, I think

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there's an opportunity for them to work so much more faster and

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efficiently with with the new tools, you know, and as

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technology changes, though, the reluctance to adapt new

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technology, if you think about the industry 20 years ago, 10

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years ago, five years ago, even three years ago, the technology

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has changed on the equipment that contractors are having to

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install. So you have to have the new technologies, the new test

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instruments to be able to really dial that in.

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Exactly. And we think about, you know, the performance of a

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system, you know, can we measure superheat and subcooling with a

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mechanical set of gauges and some thermometers? Yes,

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absolutely. Can we measure superheat and subcooling with a

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digital set of tools? Yeah. And can I do it in a fraction of the

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time? I absolutely can. So we're not, we're not teaching to

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unteach the fundamentals. We're just wanting to move the

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fundamentals into a modern technology.

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Exactly. And you know, you've been in the industry, many of

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the people out here have been in the industry long enough that,

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you know, when we're talking about like refrigerants and

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things like that, there's the old adage of, you know, when we

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were working on the refrigerant, if it was beer can cold, we were

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good to go, right? Like, you know, exactly what I'm talking

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about. Right. Can we use that though, with the new refrigerants

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that are out there on the market? No. So why do we want to

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still use the same technology that we were using in those

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days, when we're going out there to the job sites?

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Exactly. So you know, changes here, changes coming. And I

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would say as an industry, we have been able to escape

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modernizing our education for quite a while, because our

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technology hasn't really changed. Drastically, we look

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back at PSC motor driven compressors ran off mechanical

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contacts, we've been using the technology for about 100 years.

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So the evolution of technology is here. And many of us have to

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learn new ways of delivering the content. We're not changing the

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content, the fundamentals, we're just learning to deliver them in

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a different manner.

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Exactly. And you know, one of the things that we like to do at

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UEI test instruments is we like to listen to what contractors

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what's going on in the industry. One of the advantages that we

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have as being a manufacturer is just how much of that product

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that is designed and manufactured by us. Right. So as

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the technologies change, as we things change in the industry,

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because we have so much control over that with the design with

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the engineering and with the actual production of it, we're

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able to keep our tools relevant to what's going forward in the

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future. Nice. And that's a big deal is staying relevant. So we

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all have our own responsibility in keeping current with

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technology and trends in the industry, and being willing to

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re look at the way we deliver our message can be a challenge,

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but it is absolutely necessary in an evolution of education.

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And I keep coming back to this, you know, we are seeing an

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evolution of equipment and evolution of refrigerants. But

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we haven't seen a whole lot of the evolution of our education.

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Yes. And I think that's why one everybody here is is here for

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HVAC excellence. You know, it's certainly one of the reasons

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that I want to be here not only just to be able to show the new

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product from UEI, but to actually be able to hear some of

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the stories and hear what's going on in the industry to make

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sure that, you know, everything is staying current and you know,

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maybe get some new ideas. And it fosters an environment that

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you know, I get to work with some of some of the trade

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schools out there and then you hear best practices and then you

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get to share. And it just grows and grows and grows

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exponentially. Because I we're on the path, but we're

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unfortunately, very short staffed in the industry right

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now. I don't think that's news to anybody right now that, you

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know, more guys are retiring out than than able to come in and,

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you know, trying to figure out those recruitment strategies

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and everything like that. Being able to show new technology

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because honestly, next generation, if it's not on a

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phone, they don't know. And it's not their fault.

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No, that's how they grew up. That's how they grew up.

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This may not be how we grew up, but that is how they grew up.

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And that's what they connect with. Yeah, visually, exactly.

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Audibly and physically. Think about it. You go to a

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restaurant with with your parents when you were a kid,

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right? You maybe got a coloring book and some crayons or you had

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something to occupy you, right? Go to a restaurant now.

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Kid, kid sitting there. What's the first thing that mom and dad

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does? Here's phone, watch something play game like, and so

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that's just how it's been integrated into their world.

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Right. And so we need to be able to keep up with that. And you

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know, I think the industry is headed in a really good

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direction with that. But it's just being able to change our

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perspective and how we're teaching it.

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I had an educator approach me and asked, How do I encourage

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my youngest, my freshest students coming into my program

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that this program is right for them? I said, Well, I personally

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like to take a digital manifold, digital tools, digital anything

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that I have in the shop, walk over, show them, turn them on,

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let them see what is interacting, and then explain to

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them that that is where they're going to end up after they've

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learned the fundamentals, give them encouragement that the

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investment into the fundamental education will provide them the

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path to the technology that they are intrigued with.

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Okay. Yeah, that's that's a great way to start it. I'm also

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a big fan of working backwards. You know, going going with the

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all fancy. Yeah, just I'm a big fan of it. I'm gonna be honest,

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like, I think, you know, as an industry, show the kid the

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technology on the phone that they can do it this way and then

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explain what what the past had to offer. Yeah, exactly. You

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know, when when I talk about combustion analysis, you know,

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we have a digital combustion analyzer out there, right. So

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any of our C 160 series, but when you look at them, and you

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go through it, how many of you guys actually used a wet kit to

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do a combustion analysis? Exactly. So did you need to know

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how that wet kit operated? Before you used? No, no. So

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why not start and then show and talk about all the poor, you

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know, things that you used to have to do and how far we've

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come as an industry? Exactly. Because I think sometimes when

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you start with the previous technology, it's a little

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overwhelming for for the students. And so really working

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backwards seems to work well when I'm talking about it,

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because if I again, sling psychrometers, do I have to talk

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about and show you how to swing it around to be able to, to be

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able to read the the relative humidity, wet bulb and dry

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bulb? No. Right. But I can tell you the horror stories of what

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it was like to have to try to use that. Yeah, exactly. All

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right. I love it. So just new approaches for teaching the

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same fundamentals and being willing to look at a new

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generation of learners and trying to help engage them

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visually, audibly and physically the same way we did

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learning in our own method that might be different. Exactly.

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Awesome. Thank you, Louise. Really appreciate your time.

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Thank you, Clifton. I really appreciate being here today.

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All right. Thank you.