WEBVTT 00:00:06.059 --> 00:00:09.400 Welcome to Did You Know, the ESCO HVAC podcast, 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:12.160 the show where we explore the cool, the hot, 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:15.500 and the everything in between of the HVACR industry. 00:00:15.900 --> 00:00:19.179 Each week, we dig into the innovations, the insights, 00:00:19.260 --> 00:00:22.059 and the inspiring stories that power our trade, 00:00:22.219 --> 00:00:24.719 from the classroom to the job site and beyond. 00:00:24.940 --> 00:00:27.039 This episode is brought to you by this week's 00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:29.699 amazing sponsors. Daikin Comfort Technology, 00:00:30.140 --> 00:00:34.259 perfecting the air since 1924. ServiceLogic, 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:38.840 people first. Always. Hudson Technologies. One 00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:43.259 pound reclaimed is one pound not made. iConnect 00:00:43.259 --> 00:00:47.240 Training. Supporting HVAC and refrigeration instructors. 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:50.759 As well as the United Association of Journeymen 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:52.880 and Apprentices of the Plumbing and Pipefitting 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:55.539 Industry of the United States and Canada. Built 00:00:55.539 --> 00:00:59.179 on excellence since 1889. Whether you're just 00:00:59.179 --> 00:01:01.159 getting started or you've been turning wrenches 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:03.920 for decades like myself, there's always something 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.090 new for us to learn. I'm Clifton Beck, and this 00:01:07.090 --> 00:01:11.909 is Did You Know? The ESCO HVAC Podcast. Let's 00:01:11.909 --> 00:01:14.790 dive in. Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining 00:01:14.790 --> 00:01:18.250 us once again on Did You Know? The ESCO HVAC 00:01:18.250 --> 00:01:21.780 Podcast. We spend a lot of time talking about 00:01:21.780 --> 00:01:24.959 energy efficiency, ways that we can improve efficiency 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:27.739 of buildings, and especially equipment. We're 00:01:27.739 --> 00:01:29.840 seeing a lot of changes in technology, a lot 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:32.120 of innovations. And so today we're spending some 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:35.620 time with Curtis Russell from Mars Air Systems. 00:01:35.780 --> 00:01:38.400 Curtis, how's it going? Good, good. Yeah, thank 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:40.939 you for having me on. Excited to be here. Absolutely. 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:43.959 I spent a lot of time in the refrigeration, especially 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:46.939 commercial refrigeration sector, seeing air curtains 00:01:46.939 --> 00:01:50.099 in a variety of installations and applications. 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:53.719 But as we started seeing those grocery stores 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:56.780 evolve, I spent a lot of time on new construction. 00:01:57.140 --> 00:02:00.200 So I worked as a mobile engineer for a large 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:02.400 grocery store chain here in the Midwest. And 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:04.400 I had some of the older stores that I would manage. 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:06.859 But a lot of times when we'd open up a new store, 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:09.319 I'd go in for the startup commissioning, stay 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:12.759 there. first year and one of the things that 00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:16.219 that we would see a lot of especially in in newer 00:02:16.219 --> 00:02:18.819 constructions is air curtains being used in a 00:02:18.819 --> 00:02:21.719 lot of different applications and i don't think 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:24.719 everyone is aware of the opportunities that are 00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:28.280 in the air curtain design and replacement and 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:31.120 how they can affect building efficiencies so 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:35.240 let's let's kind of educate an industry on air 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:38.169 curtain applications Yeah, yeah, definitely. 00:02:38.550 --> 00:02:41.370 And yeah, and we'll kind of talk about efficiencies 00:02:41.370 --> 00:02:42.810 too. I think that's a really good point there. 00:02:43.930 --> 00:02:47.289 But yeah, I mean, I really think, you know, the 00:02:47.289 --> 00:02:49.849 problem with air curtains, first and foremost, 00:02:49.990 --> 00:02:51.930 I guess just to give everyone kind of a basic 00:02:51.930 --> 00:02:53.770 understanding of what we're doing, right, with 00:02:53.770 --> 00:02:56.930 air curtains, we're really just using, it's a 00:02:56.930 --> 00:02:59.930 unit that's creating a controlled stream of air 00:02:59.930 --> 00:03:02.310 to separate two environments, pretty much at 00:03:02.310 --> 00:03:06.139 a basic level there, right? And, you know, i 00:03:06.139 --> 00:03:07.919 think the problem with air curtains is because 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:09.960 we're moving air a lot of times it's it's it's 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:11.580 tough for people to conceptualize what's going 00:03:11.580 --> 00:03:14.060 on yeah um you could you could kind of think 00:03:14.060 --> 00:03:16.659 about it as um the analogy i like to use is like 00:03:16.659 --> 00:03:19.340 the sleeve on a coffee cup right so you get that 00:03:19.340 --> 00:03:22.240 starbucks coffee you get the sleeve on it right 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:24.520 and obviously that sleeve is preventing your 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:26.979 your hand from burning well well why is that 00:03:26.979 --> 00:03:30.560 right it's really the space or the air between 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:32.979 the outside of that sleeve and the outside of 00:03:32.979 --> 00:03:35.699 the cup. That's really what's preventing your 00:03:35.699 --> 00:03:38.259 hand from getting burned there is that air in 00:03:38.259 --> 00:03:40.199 between. And really, you know, it's a little 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:42.560 bit different because we're moving air, but the 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:45.539 science behind it and the concept is pretty much 00:03:45.539 --> 00:03:50.740 the same. So, you know, various benefits there. 00:03:50.900 --> 00:03:54.360 I think they're most commonly known as a fly 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:57.379 fan, but there's just so many other applications. 00:03:57.900 --> 00:04:00.099 Hopefully, you know, I can... give everyone some 00:04:00.099 --> 00:04:02.680 kind of awareness of that today. More on the 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:06.039 temperature side of things, you know, environmental 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:09.039 separation, right? Using them in cold storage 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:11.120 applications. Clifton, I know you said yourself, 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:13.800 you do a lot of cold storage refrigeration. So 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:16.639 I think that's a very common application. We 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:18.920 can get into the humidity side of things as well 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:21.899 with that. You know, I know that's a big issue 00:04:21.899 --> 00:04:25.279 in cold storage as well. And then in addition 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:27.899 to just, you know, keeping our buildings clean 00:04:27.899 --> 00:04:30.519 preventing the quote -unquote bad stuff from 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:32.800 getting in the buildings right keeping the good 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:34.819 stuff in so that's kind of the general idea of 00:04:34.819 --> 00:04:37.040 what we're trying to do here yeah i've seen some 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:40.120 very interesting designs in air curtain construction 00:04:40.120 --> 00:04:43.019 along the way one primary one we had we had a 00:04:43.019 --> 00:04:47.300 a large um it was all cold storage so you had 00:04:47.300 --> 00:04:50.360 a walk -in cooler very large walk -in cooler 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:52.879 actually drive -in cooler that they ran fork 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:55.639 trucks through but then right next to it was 00:04:55.639 --> 00:04:59.750 act the actual meat prepping area right all the 00:04:59.750 --> 00:05:03.089 meat cutting for the store and it had an air 00:05:03.089 --> 00:05:06.110 curtain between the two of them and they kept 00:05:06.110 --> 00:05:08.470 about a 15 degree differential between those 00:05:08.470 --> 00:05:10.829 two spaces you know you didn't want 40 degree 00:05:10.829 --> 00:05:12.649 in your meat cutting room but you know 50 55 00:05:12.649 --> 00:05:14.810 was you know comfortable for somebody to work 00:05:14.810 --> 00:05:17.810 in and you could literally like walking through 00:05:17.810 --> 00:05:19.970 the air curtain you had a 15 degree difference 00:05:19.970 --> 00:05:22.750 within you know a six inch space and people always 00:05:22.750 --> 00:05:24.329 thought that was very interesting how you can 00:05:24.329 --> 00:05:27.279 walk through and you know like we for fun sometimes 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:29.100 you stand there and like stick one hand through 00:05:29.100 --> 00:05:33.560 the air curtain yeah yeah yeah i think everyone 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:36.279 kind of has their uh we call it like the aha 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:38.839 moment right and like i said because it's one 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:40.560 of the difficult things with air curtains is 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.300 because you can't see it working right that really 00:05:43.300 --> 00:05:45.819 like that touch that feel element of it is so 00:05:45.819 --> 00:05:48.339 important i encourage anyone who's you know either 00:05:48.339 --> 00:05:50.240 if they're around job sites with their curtains 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:53.180 or have installed one Doing exactly what you 00:05:53.180 --> 00:05:55.399 said, right, just standing in front of it and 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:57.740 really just feeling that temperature difference, 00:05:57.860 --> 00:05:59.800 I think is the best way to really understand 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:02.639 like, oh, wow, this air, you know, it's actually 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:05.319 providing this this barrier, this protection 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:09.540 between the two spaces. So especially in cold 00:06:09.540 --> 00:06:12.459 storage as well. Right. The bigger the rule of 00:06:12.459 --> 00:06:14.120 thumb I like to say, too, is that the bigger 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:17.399 temperature difference that you could have, the 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:19.560 bigger problem you could potentially have as 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:22.240 well. And it's going to make. And keeping that 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:25.560 conditioned air in that meat processing room, 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:27.060 like you were saying, or in that cold storage 00:06:27.060 --> 00:06:29.860 or cooler room or freezer room, that much more 00:06:29.860 --> 00:06:32.660 important. It's interesting. Really, it's more 00:06:32.660 --> 00:06:35.740 like an air wall than an air curtain. I mean, 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:39.259 it's very intriguing to be able to experience 00:06:39.259 --> 00:06:41.980 those. And I don't think a majority of the people 00:06:41.980 --> 00:06:43.800 have, unless you've been in that environment, 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:48.699 you don't witness them a lot. Everyone has felt 00:06:48.699 --> 00:06:50.620 an air curtain at some point when you've walked 00:06:50.620 --> 00:06:52.240 through, say, you know, like a service door. 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:56.259 You walked into a, you know, any of your big 00:06:56.259 --> 00:06:58.600 box shops and all of a sudden you have air blowing 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:00.199 across you for no reason. You're like, what is 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:04.079 that? Why is this here? Mess up your hair. Yeah, 00:07:04.100 --> 00:07:07.259 exactly. But, you know, why is that key role 00:07:07.259 --> 00:07:10.120 that I think most people don't understand? Yeah. 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:13.360 Yeah. And like I said, too, I mean, just kind 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:15.300 of adding to the benefits, I'll go back to your 00:07:15.300 --> 00:07:17.259 example that you just talked about with with, 00:07:17.339 --> 00:07:19.639 you know, the meat processing area right next 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:21.180 to that cooler room, a little bit of a temperature 00:07:21.180 --> 00:07:24.240 difference there. Great story where there could 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:26.620 be multiple advantages there. Right. So obviously, 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:29.000 you know, in the example you had, it's OK. You 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:31.060 know, you want to keep the meat processing area 00:07:31.060 --> 00:07:32.579 at a certain temperature and then that cooler 00:07:32.579 --> 00:07:36.740 room at a certain temperature. But you also have, 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:38.360 you know, again, the things you might not think 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:41.899 about. you know what why are why is it so important 00:07:41.899 --> 00:07:44.240 to keep those temperatures consistent right and 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:47.459 and that comes down to you know potentially preventing 00:07:47.459 --> 00:07:50.259 food spoilage in that in that meat processing 00:07:50.259 --> 00:07:52.699 area or the quality of the meat if that room 00:07:52.699 --> 00:07:55.199 gets you know too warm you know not only are 00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:57.399 you gonna have a problem with Temperature control 00:07:57.399 --> 00:07:59.620 and efficiencies, like I said, we can touch on 00:07:59.620 --> 00:08:03.860 that too. But just the actual food or whatever 00:08:03.860 --> 00:08:07.360 you're really looking to process in that room 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:09.620 can get spoiled as well. And now you're talking 00:08:09.620 --> 00:08:14.879 about not only do we have a savings on the utility 00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:16.899 bill of running that air conditioning equipment 00:08:16.899 --> 00:08:18.920 more, but you're actually saving the food itself 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:21.019 and you're able to get more longevity out of 00:08:21.019 --> 00:08:24.420 the product. That's really the most important 00:08:24.420 --> 00:08:26.899 element in that case. And then, you know, another 00:08:26.899 --> 00:08:28.720 thing could be, you know, like I mentioned earlier, 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:30.439 there could be a humidity element, too. Right. 00:08:30.500 --> 00:08:33.460 So if you have certain humidity levels that could 00:08:33.460 --> 00:08:36.039 potentially, you know, create issues with the 00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:38.919 food or it could be a safety issue, too. Right. 00:08:38.940 --> 00:08:41.460 If you have condensation on the floors, that's 00:08:41.460 --> 00:08:44.659 a very common problem we have, especially in 00:08:44.659 --> 00:08:47.399 cold storage and food applications where, you 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:49.299 know, if you're getting condensation on the floor 00:08:49.299 --> 00:08:52.700 or frost buildup on the floor or on the strip 00:08:52.700 --> 00:08:54.539 curtains. Right. If you've got strip curtains. 00:08:55.950 --> 00:08:58.730 An air curtain can really just be a good way 00:08:58.730 --> 00:09:00.509 to prevent that from happening, prevent slipping 00:09:00.509 --> 00:09:03.009 issues. We've had issues where forklifts can 00:09:03.009 --> 00:09:06.309 run over puddles and crash into walls. Whatever 00:09:06.309 --> 00:09:09.690 produce they're carrying falls off the forklift. 00:09:10.210 --> 00:09:12.889 Again, just a bunch of supplemental benefits 00:09:12.889 --> 00:09:15.730 that can really be thought of in multiple applications. 00:09:16.809 --> 00:09:19.490 I hadn't really thought about the humidity aspect 00:09:19.490 --> 00:09:21.210 as much, and I should. I mean, that was part 00:09:21.210 --> 00:09:23.830 of my job, but I was focused so much on the refrigeration 00:09:23.830 --> 00:09:25.750 and the temperature. But now that you mentioned 00:09:25.750 --> 00:09:27.990 that, it makes complete sense. Take that same 00:09:27.990 --> 00:09:32.309 example. In that meat prepping area, every night 00:09:32.309 --> 00:09:35.990 they did a wash down. That was incredibly high 00:09:35.990 --> 00:09:39.649 humidity that was being used inside of that area 00:09:39.649 --> 00:09:42.909 during that short period of time. And you don't 00:09:42.909 --> 00:09:46.440 want that humidity in your actual... refrigerated 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:50.659 section of it so yeah you can do humidity isolation 00:09:50.659 --> 00:09:53.200 by using an air curtain in between two different 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:56.419 environments yeah yeah and actually that brings 00:09:56.419 --> 00:09:59.620 even more so so like i said the bigger the temperature 00:09:59.620 --> 00:10:03.899 delta even bigger issues could happen and a good 00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:06.539 story i have with that is we actually had a good 00:10:06.539 --> 00:10:10.440 um case study it was out out on the east coast 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:13.360 so across the country for us but um they had 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:16.919 a big issue with um So again, we're talking about 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:18.960 like supplemental benefits of the air curtain, 00:10:18.980 --> 00:10:22.320 right? They had a cold storage room and it opened 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:26.519 up to a unconditioned warehouse. Now in those 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:28.820 summer months, right? And that warehouse was 00:10:28.820 --> 00:10:32.379 getting really hot and humid. And so they were 00:10:32.379 --> 00:10:34.139 having issues with that cold storage room. Now, 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:36.919 obviously temperature control, right? Kind of 00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:39.039 being that one of those paramount benefits was 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:41.740 one problem, but they were not as concerned with 00:10:41.740 --> 00:10:44.340 that. And really the problem they had was the 00:10:44.340 --> 00:10:47.440 the humid air was actually getting in that cooler 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:50.620 room um it was a beer distributor so they had 00:10:50.620 --> 00:10:53.419 like you know pallets and boxes of beer of beers 00:10:53.419 --> 00:10:55.580 in these cardboard boxes and it was actually 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:59.120 The humidity was condensing and destroying the 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:02.179 boxes that the beer was in. Exactly. To the point 00:11:02.179 --> 00:11:04.519 where now you have labor costs. They had to either 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:07.480 throw away product or they had to repackage the 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:10.240 product. And that was the biggest issue that 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:12.440 we were able to help them out with. Aside from, 00:11:12.460 --> 00:11:14.399 you know, not just that temperature, it was really 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:17.879 that humidity issue, which I thought, you know, 00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:19.639 a really cool example of, you know, getting supplemental 00:11:19.639 --> 00:11:22.360 benefits of air curtains there. Yeah, no, that's 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:25.179 intriguing because I. I just never really looked 00:11:25.179 --> 00:11:27.720 at it from the humidity perspective before. I 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:29.620 always looked at it from the temperature, but 00:11:29.620 --> 00:11:34.360 that's a perfect example of being able to manage 00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:37.980 that environment simply by putting an air barrier 00:11:37.980 --> 00:11:40.419 in between the two different environments. Right. 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:46.080 Yeah, exactly. So on a common air curtain installation, 00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:50.139 what are the common designs? I feel like I've 00:11:50.139 --> 00:11:52.740 seen a few different designs, particularly like 00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:57.840 in that cold storage application. Yeah, so I 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.179 would say, you know, there's a couple different, 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:02.500 and that's what's cool with us. So, you know, 00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:04.379 we're always trying to innovate and improve a 00:12:04.379 --> 00:12:07.500 product, right? I would say the most common application 00:12:07.500 --> 00:12:11.830 you're going to get is a unheated unit. over 00:12:11.830 --> 00:12:14.889 like a you know seven to ten foot man door um 00:12:14.889 --> 00:12:16.889 whether that's you know obviously it can be a 00:12:16.889 --> 00:12:19.169 customer entrance that could be a cold storage 00:12:19.169 --> 00:12:21.549 you know walk -in door something like that um 00:12:21.549 --> 00:12:24.669 we also do you know we do a lot in in the industrial 00:12:24.669 --> 00:12:27.649 market too so um i guess to kind of give you 00:12:27.649 --> 00:12:29.789 the the whole spectrum here right we we do a 00:12:29.789 --> 00:12:32.330 lot of applications as small as you know couple 00:12:32.330 --> 00:12:35.250 foot um drive -through windows and then as large 00:12:35.250 --> 00:12:38.960 as you know 30 foot plus big dock delivery doors 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:42.519 um but yeah you know unheated unit blowing the 00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:44.779 air is the most common now we also can provide 00:12:44.779 --> 00:12:48.120 uh heated units so whether that's it's typically 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:51.299 like electric heat um but you know hot water 00:12:51.299 --> 00:12:53.200 steam gas you know depending on kind of what 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:55.279 kind of building you have we do have those options 00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:58.399 available um And, you know, that's really to 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:00.879 kind of prevent that windchill effect. So, you 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:03.279 know, if you're somewhere cold, like, you know, 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:05.919 Chicago, for example, that comes to mind because 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:10.080 I just saw the Rams win last night. So, you know, 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:13.320 somewhere Chicago in the winter. Right. It's 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:15.799 going to be not super comfortable if you're walking 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:18.759 through, you know, a door to the outside. It's 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:21.460 zero or below zero outside. And you walk and 00:13:21.460 --> 00:13:23.559 you got that air blowing on you. So, you know, 00:13:23.559 --> 00:13:26.279 a lot of people think. It's most common or the 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:28.980 heat is to kind of have be like a supplemental 00:13:28.980 --> 00:13:31.360 heater for the building. Sometimes that's the 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:33.299 case, but it's typically to kind of prevent that 00:13:33.299 --> 00:13:36.299 that wind chill effect for more customer comfort. 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:39.580 And then, you know, I would say, again, the cool 00:13:39.580 --> 00:13:40.740 thing with us, like I said, we're always trying 00:13:40.740 --> 00:13:42.580 to improve the product. So, you know, some other 00:13:42.580 --> 00:13:46.480 applications or installations we're really trying 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:48.620 to expand and grow into are kind of more of these 00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:51.080 niche things and really just doing more with 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:53.200 air curtains. So we have what's called a clean 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:57.059 air series. um which is just you know it's a 00:13:57.059 --> 00:14:01.139 various units we offer um to really kind of take 00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:03.659 air currents to that next level of you know not 00:14:03.659 --> 00:14:06.740 only are we using air as an air barrier But we're 00:14:06.740 --> 00:14:08.600 actually trying to clean and sanitize the air. 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:11.620 So we can do, you know, UV lights in the units. 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:15.000 We can do HEPA filters, you know, bipolar ionization. 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:17.320 Just kind of, again, especially more for these 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:21.720 hospital, clean room, even cold storage applications 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:23.659 to, you know, prevent mold growth and things 00:14:23.659 --> 00:14:26.740 like that. Extend the life of perishables. Again, 00:14:26.860 --> 00:14:29.220 just other applications and other technologies 00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:32.279 we're using to improve, you know, how air curtains 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:35.190 can be used. Sure. You know, Curtis, one of the 00:14:35.190 --> 00:14:38.090 things that I witnessed in the field is that 00:14:38.090 --> 00:14:41.090 not all technicians are educated on the repair 00:14:41.090 --> 00:14:43.269 and maintenance and sometimes just the building, 00:14:43.370 --> 00:14:46.789 the property managers. And sometimes it would 00:14:46.789 --> 00:14:49.269 fall into kind of like the same class of like 00:14:49.269 --> 00:14:52.269 economizers that are used on rooftops where they're 00:14:52.269 --> 00:14:55.009 incredibly beneficial. But if someone doesn't 00:14:55.009 --> 00:14:57.779 understand them, what do they do? they bypass 00:14:57.779 --> 00:15:00.320 them or just take them out altogether just ruining 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:03.899 all of the energy efficiency opportunities um 00:15:03.899 --> 00:15:09.120 do you see that as yeah yeah i do see that a 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:12.600 lot and you know it's it's funny it's one so 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:15.740 we we typically actually you know the majority 00:15:15.740 --> 00:15:18.360 of the opportunities we have are actually on 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:22.740 existing buildings um versus design projects, 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:25.240 kind of to your point. And a lot of times, you 00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:28.039 know, there's a couple reasons, I think. But 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:30.080 one of the most, the ones that stick out the 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:32.600 most is the fact that, you know, they get taken 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.320 off projects, possibly in the design phase, and 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:37.720 then we get the call, you know, six months after 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:42.399 the job is done and they have issues. So, you 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:44.299 know, the air curtains, they end up getting there 00:15:44.299 --> 00:15:46.460 to some extent a lot of times, but I think really 00:15:46.460 --> 00:15:49.879 kind of relaying the value to the engineer. is 00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:51.840 important so maybe i can talk about that a little 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:55.539 bit here um yeah so i you know i think a lot 00:15:55.539 --> 00:15:57.720 of times you know like i said they they get value 00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:59.580 engineered off projects you know they're a little 00:15:59.580 --> 00:16:02.320 over budget and they see an air curtain as they 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:05.059 want versus a need so that could be you know 00:16:05.059 --> 00:16:06.580 potentially one of things that get taken off 00:16:06.580 --> 00:16:09.840 um when in reality you know i think that there's 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:11.980 a couple things to unpack here right number one 00:16:11.980 --> 00:16:14.860 uh especially if you're like in a large office 00:16:14.860 --> 00:16:17.419 building type project you know you could have 00:16:17.419 --> 00:16:21.289 uh you know a central air handling unit that's, 00:16:21.289 --> 00:16:23.389 you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars. And 00:16:23.389 --> 00:16:25.909 first and foremost, air curtains in themselves 00:16:25.909 --> 00:16:30.610 are not very expensive. So I think, you know, 00:16:30.610 --> 00:16:33.769 you can get a lot more mileage, you know, figuring 00:16:33.769 --> 00:16:36.940 out ways to tweak that. larger piece of equipment 00:16:36.940 --> 00:16:39.600 to save a lot more money and then in the long 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:42.440 run um you know with the fact that air currents 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:45.240 are able to maintain building temperatures and 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:47.720 prevent fluctuations especially in high traffic 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:50.960 situations you're ultimately going to save a 00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:53.720 lot more money uh pretty quickly the rois are 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:56.480 pretty quick when you factor in you know installing 00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:59.240 one of our low pro units is the same amount of 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:01.220 power as like running a light bulb you know in 00:17:01.220 --> 00:17:04.599 your in your parking lot so That is a lot more 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:07.640 efficient than, you know, having to cycle a large, 00:17:07.900 --> 00:17:10.319 you know, a large compressor on and off every 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.299 time those building temperatures fluctuate. So 00:17:13.299 --> 00:17:14.859 I think it's an important point there as well. 00:17:15.339 --> 00:17:18.660 Absolutely. I do as well. I know we're going 00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:21.500 to have a lot of technicians and even engineers 00:17:21.500 --> 00:17:25.400 on the show or on this podcast listening. When 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:29.119 we think about an air curtain. Most of our airflow 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:31.079 nerds like myself are going to go, okay, we're 00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:32.819 supplying air. What are we doing with the return? 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:36.960 How are we making this curtain? Are we pulling 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:40.619 air just from one room and then circling, taking 00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:43.980 the temperature, whichever room has the lower 00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:46.160 temperature or lower humidity, whatever one we're 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:49.279 trying to condition. Are we just using the air 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:51.420 from one of those spaces that we're trying to 00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:56.720 divide? Yeah. So typically, we recommend in a... 00:17:57.069 --> 00:17:59.029 Cold storage, well, there's a couple things I 00:17:59.029 --> 00:18:01.569 recommend. For cold storage, that one comes to 00:18:01.569 --> 00:18:03.150 mind first just because it's the largest temperature 00:18:03.150 --> 00:18:04.769 difference. We typically recommend installing 00:18:04.769 --> 00:18:08.269 that on the warm side. Okay. Yeah, that's going 00:18:08.269 --> 00:18:10.329 to be your best, you know, you're going to get 00:18:10.329 --> 00:18:13.150 the best efficiency out of the unit. Now, obviously, 00:18:13.329 --> 00:18:15.549 like I said, if you're doing something like you're 00:18:15.549 --> 00:18:17.289 trying to put UV lights in it, you're trying 00:18:17.289 --> 00:18:19.710 to clean the room, sanitize the air, prevent 00:18:19.710 --> 00:18:22.890 mold growth, things like that. you obviously 00:18:22.890 --> 00:18:25.910 got to install it on whichever side you're trying 00:18:25.910 --> 00:18:29.069 to clean that air in. That could be one case 00:18:29.069 --> 00:18:30.769 where you'd have to install it in the cooler. 00:18:31.849 --> 00:18:35.410 Freezers, just as a note, we've never really 00:18:35.410 --> 00:18:37.869 had a successful install inside a freezer. Those 00:18:37.869 --> 00:18:39.849 typically always have to be on the warm side. 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:43.940 But other than that, I would say in typical applications, 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:47.839 it's most common practice to install it on the 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:51.900 inside of the building. So if you're able to 00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:54.400 do that, we recommend that. You can, for our 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.700 unheated units, you can install them outdoors 00:18:56.700 --> 00:18:59.920 as long as it's covered and not exposed directly 00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:02.420 to the elements. But just to get the most longevity 00:19:02.420 --> 00:19:04.460 out of the unit. And like I said, you really 00:19:04.460 --> 00:19:07.960 just want to use that clean air that's on the 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:10.319 inside of the building. to create that barrier 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:13.700 um like i said typically you know installing 00:19:13.700 --> 00:19:15.799 the unit on the inside of the door if possible 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:19.220 is probably best practice yeah the only time 00:19:19.220 --> 00:19:22.480 that i've i remember seeing one installed outdoors 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:27.660 at a local botanical garden at the zoo you know 00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:30.099 they had it at the entry outside and but it was 00:19:30.099 --> 00:19:32.440 being used really just to make sure it was blow 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:35.200 off any insects you know that might be traveling 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:39.420 with you but you know it's all part of you know 00:19:39.420 --> 00:19:41.920 conditioning that outdoor space before you get 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:44.460 to that indoor space and you know when we think 00:19:44.460 --> 00:19:46.839 about that you know it has a lot of benefits 00:19:46.839 --> 00:19:50.000 you know if we can separate two areas because 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:51.579 you have a lot of traffic going in and out of 00:19:51.579 --> 00:19:53.519 those doors so you can't use you know swinging 00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:55.799 doors or rotating doors because of you know safety 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:59.339 scenarios but if you can use an air curtain well 00:19:59.339 --> 00:20:03.039 now we can do a isolate those two different atmospheres 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:05.380 and in cases like that you could actually use 00:20:05.380 --> 00:20:10.000 them for uh pre -conditioning the person or the 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:12.440 product before they go into the new space right 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:15.279 exactly yeah and we you know we've kind of um 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:17.119 played around with that too that kind of falls 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:19.680 in that clean air series camp a little bit to 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:22.279 where um yeah you know you can actually use these 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:24.539 so you know we've done actually a couple of installations 00:20:24.539 --> 00:20:27.779 too where you know you install like two units 00:20:27.779 --> 00:20:31.180 let's say on the sides of the doors um vertically 00:20:31.180 --> 00:20:32.779 right so they're kind of mounted vertically on 00:20:32.779 --> 00:20:34.660 the sides and then when people are walking through 00:20:34.660 --> 00:20:38.400 you know it's just another way you can blow whatever 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:41.299 you know um things you want off of them and kind 00:20:41.299 --> 00:20:44.420 of keep them cleaner um and not just from a customer 00:20:44.420 --> 00:20:47.799 entry or or you know person application we do 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:50.839 a lot of that too like um i guess more in the 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:53.059 industrial sector like with with a lot of like 00:20:53.059 --> 00:20:55.460 mining projects we have like with like actual 00:20:55.460 --> 00:20:59.220 like mines yeah they'll have um So, you know, 00:20:59.220 --> 00:21:01.140 sometimes they'll have like carts, right, that 00:21:01.140 --> 00:21:02.859 kind of drive through and things like that. And 00:21:02.859 --> 00:21:04.859 depending on what they're mining, they get really 00:21:04.859 --> 00:21:06.420 dirty. And they're saying, hey, you know, we 00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:09.500 again, another supplemental application here, 00:21:09.539 --> 00:21:10.839 right? The kind of the norm is like, hey, you 00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:12.759 know, we don't really need the temperature control 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:15.099 or flying insects, but we just really need a 00:21:15.099 --> 00:21:18.119 fan with a controlled stream of air that can 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:21.279 really just blow the dirt, dust, whatever off 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:23.579 of these trucks. Right. And make sure we're not 00:21:23.579 --> 00:21:26.180 polluting. um you know wherever they're going 00:21:26.180 --> 00:21:28.660 or depositing you know whatever product they're 00:21:28.660 --> 00:21:31.480 they're mining on so um we we see it you know 00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:33.119 like i said a lot of applications like that as 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:34.799 well that's interesting i hadn't thought about 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:36.259 it but it completely makes sense i mean you're 00:21:36.259 --> 00:21:38.200 removing some of that dust and particles and 00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:40.559 you're just leaving them in the environment that 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:43.500 they came from yeah healthcare too like i said 00:21:43.500 --> 00:21:46.059 if you have like a very Just a very controlled, 00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:47.920 you know, product or something that you need 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:49.519 cleaned. You just, you know, it's been sitting 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:51.960 in a warehouse and you need to move it to, you 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:54.480 know, another room to unpackage it or whatever. 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:57.920 You know, like I said, we're really just blowing 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:00.440 the air, but there's another benefit there and 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:02.019 just another way you can think about, you know, 00:22:02.019 --> 00:22:03.900 how else can I use this other than temperature 00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:06.160 control, flying insect control, things like that. 00:22:07.299 --> 00:22:09.259 Very intriguing. And that's the kind of things 00:22:09.259 --> 00:22:10.880 I want to talk about is, you know, what are the 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:12.900 different applications? Just so people understand 00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:15.720 that. there's a variety of applications that 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:18.279 can be used in and sometimes we don't think about 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:20.819 you know what are all of our options when we're 00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:22.640 looking at a space and we're trying to condition 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:25.579 a space it's important to understand what all 00:22:25.579 --> 00:22:28.900 of the options are in case we just we weren't 00:22:28.900 --> 00:22:31.700 uh educated on what some of them would be yeah 00:22:31.700 --> 00:22:33.680 i guess a couple other kind of like you know 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.539 i guess examples come to mind too kind of in 00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:38.670 that right like how else can I use these? So, 00:22:38.730 --> 00:22:40.450 you know, one, one I thought was, was really 00:22:40.450 --> 00:22:44.230 good was I went to, I'm drawing a blank on, on 00:22:44.230 --> 00:22:45.950 the airport now, but I was traveling, you know, 00:22:45.970 --> 00:22:49.809 a couple of months ago to the East coast. And 00:22:49.809 --> 00:22:52.930 it was funny because I'd never seen this before, 00:22:53.009 --> 00:22:55.670 even me, right. As, as a Mars employee, I'd never 00:22:55.670 --> 00:22:57.309 seen this, but I was like, wow, that is a great 00:22:57.309 --> 00:23:00.920 application. I was waiting at my gate. to board 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:03.880 the plane um and i looked up you know they have 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:06.059 the terminals kind of like the the terminal i 00:23:06.059 --> 00:23:07.859 guess to where you board people you know they 00:23:07.859 --> 00:23:12.240 walk on in that um terminal and i'm looking you 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:15.160 know at the door behind the the gal at the desk 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:17.200 and i'm seeing an air curtain and it's electric 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:20.640 heated inside yeah right at the gate inside the 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:23.900 airport and what i realized was they're using 00:23:23.900 --> 00:23:26.319 it there because you know they don't want when 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:29.819 those doors open it was so cold you bet um yeah 00:23:29.819 --> 00:23:32.660 that it was actually that cold air was coming 00:23:32.660 --> 00:23:34.740 in through that terminal even though it was kind 00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:36.779 of sealed off they still had the cold an issue 00:23:36.779 --> 00:23:38.420 with that cold air getting in so they were using 00:23:38.420 --> 00:23:41.180 air curtains believe it or not inside the airport 00:23:41.180 --> 00:23:44.099 at the gate to prevent that so that was a really 00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:48.539 cool application yeah um And I just thought, 00:23:48.579 --> 00:23:49.680 you know, like I said, that'd be kind of something 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.200 a little bit a little bit unique as well. Yeah, 00:23:52.299 --> 00:23:54.140 because that could actually help even on the 00:23:54.140 --> 00:23:56.440 pressure differential. You know, if you think 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:00.200 about like the airport, which, you know, I don't 00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:02.299 know if they negative pressure or positive pressure, 00:24:02.339 --> 00:24:04.299 they probably positive pressure. I can't remember 00:24:04.299 --> 00:24:06.799 walking through the doors, but I think those 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:09.339 are slightly positive pressure. You know, and 00:24:09.339 --> 00:24:11.519 if you open that to the outside, you know, that's 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:12.839 a large amount of air that could potentially 00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:15.660 be coming down that that causeway, that walkway. 00:24:16.250 --> 00:24:20.009 versus putting a air curtain in between it and 00:24:20.009 --> 00:24:23.089 you could actually dampen that pressure differential. 00:24:23.650 --> 00:24:27.430 Yeah, air curtains. Yeah, I would say their pressure 00:24:27.430 --> 00:24:30.170 differentials are difficult for air curtains. 00:24:30.230 --> 00:24:33.250 Yeah, I can imagine. It is tough. It's a very 00:24:33.250 --> 00:24:38.099 common, I guess, just in terms of kind of. misconception 00:24:38.099 --> 00:24:40.019 maybe not misconception but just common common 00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:43.099 issues we hear of that is probably the largest 00:24:43.099 --> 00:24:45.140 one yeah we'll hear people you know we'll get 00:24:45.140 --> 00:24:47.019 you know pet calls or whatever and say hey your 00:24:47.019 --> 00:24:50.000 air curtain's not working but a lot of times 00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:52.259 you know we ask them okay well is is the building 00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:55.759 temperature balanced yeah exactly and a lot of 00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:58.559 times it's not and unfortunately it's just it 00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:00.759 is one of those things i wish i could change 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:06.380 the you know the laws of the universe right but 00:25:06.380 --> 00:25:08.500 uh you know unfortunately it is just one of those 00:25:08.500 --> 00:25:10.319 things where negative pressure is difficult now 00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:13.279 again we can't overcome a little bit um we we've 00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:15.599 seen some of that but it is an important thing 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:17.180 i guess for all the listeners as well to note 00:25:17.180 --> 00:25:19.420 of you know if you do have a project especially 00:25:19.420 --> 00:25:21.460 where you have a lot of air curtains or or a 00:25:21.460 --> 00:25:24.529 lot of openings yeah um And really, you know, 00:25:24.589 --> 00:25:26.430 I think it is an important thing to make sure 00:25:26.430 --> 00:25:29.029 that there is a relatively balanced building. 00:25:29.109 --> 00:25:31.309 And it can be something as easy, you know, obviously 00:25:31.309 --> 00:25:33.410 numbers are great if you've got the equipment 00:25:33.410 --> 00:25:36.170 to do that. But even if something as simple as, 00:25:36.190 --> 00:25:38.990 you know, taking like a tissue or a napkin and 00:25:38.990 --> 00:25:41.890 you kind of put it at that doorway. And if there's 00:25:41.890 --> 00:25:43.670 fluttering, right, you can kind of tell there's 00:25:43.670 --> 00:25:45.349 a little bit pressure. So that's the kind of 00:25:45.349 --> 00:25:48.089 the way I like to do it just because it's easier. 00:25:48.970 --> 00:25:50.609 But, you know, again, it's just giving you that 00:25:50.609 --> 00:25:52.329 gauge, you know, so you kind of know what to 00:25:52.329 --> 00:25:55.609 expect. the proper way to fix the issue which 00:25:55.609 --> 00:25:57.970 like i said in those cases isn't the air curtain 00:25:57.970 --> 00:26:01.049 it's actually the the building pressure so exactly 00:26:01.049 --> 00:26:05.089 curtis where can we learn more about mars air 00:26:05.089 --> 00:26:08.490 systems yeah so i would you know highly recommend 00:26:08.490 --> 00:26:10.750 checking out our website first and foremost at 00:26:10.750 --> 00:26:14.170 you know marsair .com m -a -r -s -a -i -r .com 00:26:14.170 --> 00:26:17.609 ton of great information there um now there's 00:26:17.609 --> 00:26:20.750 a there's a lot so you know it'll obviously Can 00:26:20.750 --> 00:26:22.130 take you a couple of different ways. We've got 00:26:22.130 --> 00:26:24.289 all of our products there. We've got videos there. 00:26:24.750 --> 00:26:27.430 If you're a specifier, you know, we have our 00:26:27.430 --> 00:26:30.230 specification documents there. If you're really 00:26:30.230 --> 00:26:32.710 looking to just get a better understanding of 00:26:32.710 --> 00:26:35.869 air curtains in general, we do have a YouTube 00:26:35.869 --> 00:26:39.750 channel as well. Mars Air Systems. And that's 00:26:39.750 --> 00:26:41.789 both. Yeah, we have videos, you know, really 00:26:41.789 --> 00:26:44.240 kind of educating people on. A little bit of 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:45.900 what I talked about, what are air curtains, their 00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:48.700 benefits, you know, where can I use them? And 00:26:48.700 --> 00:26:50.720 we actually recently came out with some videos 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.259 more on the technician side as well. So if you're 00:26:53.259 --> 00:26:56.640 someone who services air curtains and you just 00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:59.500 kind of want a cleaner video of, you know, hey, 00:26:59.579 --> 00:27:02.039 how do I, you know, take out the motor fan assembly? 00:27:02.180 --> 00:27:04.059 How do I, you know, service the, you know, how 00:27:04.059 --> 00:27:06.480 do I clean it, replace parts, things like that. 00:27:06.619 --> 00:27:10.440 We have those on our YouTube page and we're actively 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.339 coming out with more of those as well to hopefully. 00:27:12.829 --> 00:27:16.049 better help the customer audience we have. Yeah, 00:27:16.549 --> 00:27:18.789 absolutely. Well, I really appreciate you hanging 00:27:18.789 --> 00:27:21.170 out with us today. Learned a lot more about air 00:27:21.170 --> 00:27:23.049 curtains than I had in the past. That's always 00:27:23.049 --> 00:27:25.630 a good day and a good conversation. And we thank 00:27:25.630 --> 00:27:28.809 you for spending time today. Likewise. I appreciate 00:27:28.809 --> 00:27:31.269 you having me on, Clifton. Thanks again. Absolutely.