Welcome to Did You Know, the ESCO HVAC podcast,
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new for us to learn. I'm Clifton Beck, and this
is Did You Know? The ESCO HVAC Podcast. Let's
dive in. All right, everyone. Thank you so much
for joining us on Did You Know? The ESCO HVAC
Show. So today we're spending some time with
Daniel Walsh, CEO of Veriskills. How's it going?
Good. Thanks for having me. I'm super excited
to dive in with you. Yeah, this is going to be
a fun conversation. We've had a lot of conversations
in the industry on how artificial intelligence
and algorithms and machine learning is changing
skills and different jobs throughout the entire
world. But the trades and particularly like blue
collar jobs are really going through an interesting
evolution. And you're at the forefront of understanding
how technology can aid this transition. So we're
going to call this one how technology can empower
rather than replace blue collar professionals.
Sound fair? Yeah, sounds very accurate. Well,
let's talk about like, how did you get to here?
Like, what was the problems that you've seen?
So we can talk about the solutions that you're
providing? Yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah, thank
you for having me again. This is, this is great.
And, you know, the journey for me started really,
you know, really a long, long time ago when I
was growing up. So my, my dad has been in in
the blue collar services world his entire life.
So he's been a plumber for 48 years. Awesome.
And he always would experience a number of difficulties
inside of running that company. And probably
number one was just finding reliable kind of
quality workers. that he could actually afford
to take the time to find. So, you know, a lot
of owners are working in their company as well
as running the whole company. So they're oftentimes
out in the field, they're going to job sites,
and then they're having to go back and they're
having to look at, you know, a list of potential
candidates from one of these platforms. And they
usually don't have... the help of a recruitment
agency or a staffing agency that is finding them
these roles because largely the staffing world
has abandoned um the blue collar kind of smb
you know side of america because they're not
honda that can hire a thousand people and one
fell swoop exactly and so you know that for me
i just grew up seeing all these difficulties
that my dad had running his company and you know
you know i grew up around that and you know i
got into tech um thinking like hey i i i saw
those difficulties i'm getting i want to do something
else yeah i want to do something else this is
going to be you know my uh my way out you know
more or less um and i got into tech and my last
company that that I built was a school that trained
software engineers. So it trained them and then
we would place them into jobs all over the world.
And there's kind of this promise that's been
sold, you know, to every new generation over
the last 25 years that, hey, if you learn to
code. You can get a job just about anywhere and
you are on a quick path to making, you know,
six figures plus in a short amount of time. And
the reality of what I saw was there was 20 ,000
candidates that applied to our program over COVID.
Only about 600 of those folks were able to even
come through the program, which, you know, For
us, it was our best year we ever had. But for
the 19 ,400 people that weren't able to get in,
it was because they needed an opportunity that
could meet them where they were. They needed
an opportunity that could pay them at the skill
level they were, and they could grow from there.
And they couldn't afford to take off three months
of their life to go through and learn. you know
yeah it's up skill and so that was kind of that
was the big one of the first big eye openers
for me that really made me think through okay
where are the opportunities that somebody can
go in they can start building a career for themselves
and you know when we started looking at that
it was hard to resist the metrics around blue
collar you know this is I didn't want to admit
it, but this is an industry, you know, that has
been having 10 ,000 baby boomers a day retire
out of for a decade. And the industry needs millions
of new workers to come in to fill these roles.
And at the same time, the crazy thing when we
were looking at all of like the career. that
people can build the life the really the true
american dream they can achieve through blue
collar at the same time the ai boom was happening
and really wiping out entry -level positions
in many and most of the the roles that exist
today and so for us it's like wait a minute yeah
you know the insurance policy that was you know
the computer science degree is gone now and now
we've trained an entire generation of young people
to say hey this is this is your future and now
it's actually not your future and and now what
do we do so for me you know it it couldn't become
more clear that hey there is a There's a fusion
right now of technology and real -world skills
that is happening. You bet. It looks very different
than the blue collar of yesteryear. You're working
with technology to do just about everything of
what you're doing on a daily basis. These jobs
aren't going away. I'm sorry. AI is coming for
many jobs immediately. but it's not your plumbers,
electricians, HVAC techs. This is an area that
you can build real security in. And I mean, the
numbers are nuts. You're talking about plumbers
that are making well past six figures on a yearly
basis, HVAC technicians, but we don't have enough
of them. But we do have many people that just
lost their... future of, oh, I'm going to get
a good job at tech. So I think, you know, that's
where I get excited. I think like, you know,
every news article I see is, you know, Half the
jobs in the U .S. are going to be axed and kind
of this doom kind of mentality, you know. But
I'm trying to be the preacher from every, you
know, mountaintop that's saying, hey, no, no,
no. We have the opportunity that we've never
had because of AI's ability to bring so many
people into the workforce and, you know, find
people that. didn't know they were qualified
for so many jobs, to start them in a track that
they didn't have. This is the $1 trillion missing
labor market that needs to be moved in in the
next few years. We've been having a lot of conversations
around that, trying to figure out how do we fill
this void of labor. Before the show, I was mentioning
that I'd recorded a podcast with the Department
of Labor, the Bureau of Labor Statistics. And
we were talking about growth in the trades in
general. And if we look at all trade or all jobs
across the US in 2024, the growth rate was less
than 3 % for all jobs, like 2 .6, 2 .7%. But
HVAC service was over 10. over three times the
national average in growth of jobs just in that
2024. And the predicament that we continue to
have conversations on, okay, we know that we
have. This need for technician. We have this
significant void, exactly what you're talking
about. All of our boomers are retiring. We took
trades out of the schools. So the millennials,
unfortunately, didn't get exposed to the trades
when they were in high school. They were told
that it's not the career path. They need to do
things like I .T. That's right. So we have all
of this job loss in the I .T. market that we
have. this need for technicians in the skilled
trades. We have so many new digital tools and
technologies. You could take someone from the
IT field and bring them in just doing construction
of platforms for software. If they're mechanical,
they could be doing the commissioning and the
diagnostics because all of our new generations
of inverters are communicating systems. We're
using digital tools that are fully integrated
and many times don't even connect to a piece
of equipment. We're doing remote diagnostics
and logics. And I was recently doing a project
panel with a tool manufacturer on their integration
of... Artificial intelligence engines that are
going to be doing live data streaming from your
tools on the job. Basically, you're collecting
data from the equipment. That data is now being
ran through learning engines and spitting back
some diagnostic scenarios. That's right. The
backbone of our industry is going to be supported
by IT. That's right. That's right. how do we
attract them that that's where we're struggling
right now yeah yeah i you know i think it's it's
kind of it's i think it's us all really changing
our tune and you're already seeing many people
do this but um you know many governments are
starting to realize that They have to do this
because this is where the job creation is going
to happen over the next decade by leaps and bounds.
To your point on the HVAC, job growth being three
times the national average. And so, you know,
I think, you know, it was kind of almost marketed,
you know, from the standpoint of like, oh, if
you're not able to go to college. Yeah. You can
you can get into the trades like there's always
the secondary path. It's a secondary, you know,
and and now I think the thing we all have to
do as a society is realize, no, no, this actually
is the path right now for our younger generations.
This is and it's not like, oh, this is the path
because there's no other path. I literally heard
just the other day. There was an electrician
that was working in conjunction with these data
centers that were going up. He's making $700
,000 a year as an electrician. I mean, that's
above any Silicon Valley software engineer salary
at any top firm. this is an exciting future to
be a part of. This is an exciting career. And
I think that's the narrative we all need to start
understanding and getting out there is like,
hey, no, this is a path that is a part of building
the future. Like every single one of these data
centers that goes up are literally the equivalent
of putting up a city. The level of resources
needed. the level of workers there's tens of
thousands of workers and the number one role
they need you know to to fill are not your software
engineers when you're putting up data centers
the number one role is they need construction
workers they need hvac technicians that cool
these things they need plumbers they need those
roles filled and so i think like that's that's
why i try to get this message out like hey I
know it is a scary time for the world with what's
happening with AI and there's so much that's
shifting so fast. But one of the most positive
things I'm seeing is this AI can help you do
your job so much better than you ever were before.
And who's going to best understand how to do
that? It is the younger generations. I agree.
It is the folks that... were raised with technology
and um at the same time it can also get you into
these jobs and discover you so much faster than
a human recruiter could by just looking at a
stack of resumes um that's that's what gets me
excited when i think about i have two boys when
i think you know uh jen alpha i think somebody
told me the other day turns 14 this year you
know and Almost ready for the workforce. They're
almost ready for the workforce. And what is the
future we're telling them? And I think a lot
of people are confused, but in my mind, we have
to rapidly change what we're looking at right
now and what we're telling younger generations
because there's a need and a demand that the
world has, but we need to start shifting our
mindset to, hey, this is where... the ball is
this is where it's going to probably be for a
long time and and it's also going to be the most
stability in a future and and the thing that
can actually give you that american dream um
and you know with what we're doing the cool thing
about it is typically to get discovered to kind
of go into the trades you know you would need
experience and you would need to be on kind of
just one of these platforms but what most people
don't realize is many of these roles you can
start entry level and then work your way up absolutely
and like for us what we're able to do are you
know you know to give you a little context we've
built the world's best blue collar ai recruiter
and you know it's able to interview thousands
of candidates simultaneously talk in any language
that they talk in um it it can spend you know
hours with each candidate versus the typical
recruiter might spend five to ten minutes kind
of right on a phone call um this is what we need
to really bring in people quickly to these roles
um and the demand right now i mean in the hvac
world the blue collar world they're hurting right
now they need people and so i think it's like
in my opinion this is a blessing that we have
this technology at this time that can actually
now bring the people into the workforce and can
actually match them and then invest in their
future And we're doing that in our platform by,
if you start as a general laborer, we have 900
upskilling courses for you to start to learn
everything you need to do to climb that ladder,
to become a master or a journeyman, to become
these different higher roles within a few years'
time. Wow. And so you're really looking at the...
the person, you're looking at the candidate and
not just looking at what is the job they're searching
for now. What are their future opportunities?
That's right. What direction are they likely
to go and how can we help prepare them? How can
we build the resume as they're going to get them
to a place that we believe that they could achieve?
That's right. And yeah, and it's like, you know,
for us, it's like it's starting with a job with
that. So we're starting with an opportunity.
Like our AI is able to match them based on millions
of parameters versus, you know, maybe a good
recruiter might be able to look at a few hundred.
We're able to match them based off of millions
of parameters. bringing them into an opportunity
they can start in today um we can do this in
hours instead of weeks and months um and then
it's saying okay we have you in this hvac company
you're doing well now what's your what's your
future path with this hvac company how can you
starting on day one go from an entry -level technician
or an entry -level general laborer to where you
are a top technician in the field. Your learning
is really matching the speed of our time. How
are you utilizing technology to do that? It's
starting with where they are today and then being
able to guide them and help them and work with
them. For us, our whole thing is we use AI to
do everything that an army of recruiters and
an army of HR people can't actually do, which
is to serve the companies that are fueling the
American economy, the HVAC companies, the plumbing
companies, the construction companies. These
companies are not being served today by... large
recruitment agencies. And I think it's like the
brightest future for young people to get into.
And so that's our goal is that we need to bring
more people in. We need to place them fast because
our patience for a slow process in our day and
age, unfortunately, just isn't there. So we have
to match demand and opportunity quickly. We're
able to bring in you know people that are reliable
people that are hungry for opportunity because
we're able to look at you know literally thousands
of more factors in deciding if a candidate is
going to you know not even show up or stay for
three years right and then we invest in that
person and we build them up That is such a different
dynamic. And I think it is very fitting, particularly
for Gen Z and Gen Alpha. When we look at the
characteristics of these different generations,
like we looked at millennials. Millennials are
very much about looking at a stable job, a place
where they can balance work life and home. But
then when we look at. Gen X and particularly
into Alpha, we're actually making a generational
shift. The Gen Alpha looks a whole lot more similar
to our boomers and our pre -boomers because of
the work ethics, right? They're looking for what
they can do to contribute. They're looking for
how do I build my resume? How can I grow? And
I think we got away from that. as a society at
least here in the united states other parts of
the world they they build their society based
on that that growth plan so that people don't
become stagnant that they're looking at their
future and they're having an understanding of
what they can do to continually better themselves
and to find jobs that they enjoy and it almost
seems like this should be part of our society,
but we've kind of left it to the wayside. Yeah.
Yeah. It's fascinating. You know, it's, you know,
the younger generation is ready, ready to be
invested in. They're ready. They are. They're
ready to have the opportunity. And, you know,
I think the interesting thing is in an abundance
of technology as well. in a world where you know
there's screens on every everything and anything
younger people are are from what i've seen gen
alpha and gen z um they're more wanting to be
connected to reality right that's it's bringing
them happiness more then the devices they interact
with is shocking right like any any one of us
that have been around for a second will understand
like of course that's the way it is right but
um you know this they're more wanting to be connected
to the physical world as the digital world is
taking more and more prevalence and um and so
you know i i i'm grateful that ai has allowed
us to move faster to solve this problem. Because
if we didn't have AI coming in the way that it
is right now, I don't know if we would actually
have the ability to course correct here. to be
able to pull in young people, to be able to train
them, to be able to place them as fast as is
needed with the current demand. I mean, there's
literally trillions of dollars worth of infrastructure
projects for large data centers popping up all
over the United States. We don't have the time
for a two -year... project to to really institute
something we barely have time you know for two
months to go by before another drop in technology
happens and oh we need this much more bandwidth
or capacity and and so i'm grateful for the technology
that ai has allowed us to do it and that's at
vero skills that's what we're doing we're saying
hey we're not buying into this kind of doomsday
mentality that the future is going to be darker
than it was. This is a technology that has the
ability to connect us better to the things that
make us happier, to bring people into the workforce,
to give them the dignity of a good career. that
they can find true happiness in, but also fueling
it with the time that we're living in, meaning
we're using technology to, you know, I've heard
the thing said like, oh, AI makes you a 10X software
engineer. AI should also be doing this in electricians
and HVAC technicians and plumbers as well. It's
just, we don't think about it in those realms.
And I think that's where the disconnect today
is. But I think the future is bright for the
young people that get into the trades and get
into this because there's nothing but opportunity
right now. I'm so in a line with you. We keep
talking about the data centers and the high.
paying jobs that come along with that. I just
had a conversation last week with a representative
of the UAE and we were talking about the demand
for it, particularly in the skilled trades and
HVAC and in plumbing and steamfitters and electrical
and control specialists and data centers. Even
within the data center, once the structure is
done, there are in -house maintenance professionals.
That's right. that are sitting in front of a
AI computer that's analyzing all of the different
components and controls and valves and compressors
and motors and pumps within the structure and
doing preventative predictive maintenance all
AI generated and the results are phenomenal.
Those technicians are working in climate controlled
environments and he was saying that the average
net is $170 ,000 to $200 ,000. Wow. Net. Wow.
And so we're talking about a technician that
is a mechanic, but at the heart of them, they're
an IT professional. That's right. That's right.
That is very much these type of roles that we're
talking about. So is Veriskills, is it a employer?
based platform or an employee -based platform?
And what does the experience look like? That's
a great question. So, you know, for our platform,
what we realized is nobody wants to go through
and scroll a thousand resumes on a, or a thousand
profiles on a Indeed type platform anymore. The
age of AI allows us to do what this technology
allows us to do is to do the work that people
are doing and make those kind of decisions and
make it easy for the person, the company owner,
the hiring manager to have all that work done
for them. Because it's human -like intelligence
that's being able to decide all these different
things. So we're a platform for both employers
and candidates. The easiest way to think about
us is we are the same model as the staffing,
recruiting agency world is. Which we've experienced
before, probably. Which we've experienced before.
And the only difference is we're using AI. to
do all of the work than an army of recruiters
and an army of HR people would do that is opening
up entire portions of the market to be served
like they've never been served before. And so
there's a 200 billion a year enterprise staffing
and recruiting world that never touches your
HVAC companies because they wouldn't make their
money serving. three or four candidates. And
because we use technology, we're able to do all
of that. So we are a AI native staffing and recruiting
agency platform that does all of this work where
we're bringing in thousands of candidates. We're
able to give them access to all these upskilling
courses, but then we're immediately matching
them. to companies that have already signed on
with us that are needing construction workers,
HVAC technicians, plumbers in all of these different
areas. And if I'm an HVAC company, when I say,
hey, I need a worker, I need a worker yesterday.
I don't need a worker in a month. So probably
why the staffing and recruiting world has never
been able to serve this. 365 billion dollar labor
market is because their timelines never matched
and you know the beautiful thing about what we
can do is we can match people in hours we can
have people that have fully background checked
fully interviewed fully vetted added as you know
an employee through our hr system and they're
on a company location within hours and That's
a game changer. Yeah, absolutely. I just came
back from a conference, the ACTE conference down
in Nashville, and it's all, you know, working
jobs of all different professions. And the most
common issue that I had or, you know, question
and concern that I had from school administrators
was I can't find. educators for our program.
Our programs are exploding and we can't find
educators. And some of these were incredibly
well paying. entry -level educator positions.
I could see this as being a fantastic tool for
a school or an administrator that is looking
for that potential candidate. Because what if
I'm the technician and I haven't even thought
about becoming an educator, but yet my qualifications
show that I could be? That's how I got into education.
I had a recruiter with a different perspective
come to me and go, you know what? Has anyone
ever told you that you're actually supposed to
be an educator and you missed the bar? And I'm
like, No. I'm sorry they've all passed you up
for that because that's what you're supposed
to do. It turned out it was something that was
my greatest passion. I didn't even know it. But
things like AI could probably sort through that
data and hit those different key points and go,
this might not have been in your job prereq to
be able to look at an educator role, but... we're
actually seeing that you would be a good candidate
for this type of a job. I mean, that could solve
a lot of problems. It's crazy the experience,
the different types of roles that somebody becomes
opened up for when you spend the time to extrapolate
that data and really spend the time with each
candidate. Here's a great example to your point.
We just placed somebody in a real Carmen role
in West Texas. That like, that's a very like
specialized, very specific, very specific, you
know, role. And, you know, this is in an area
where there's not, there's not very many people
in general, but definitely not very many real
Carmen, you know? So. you know what we but what
we were able to do was we were able to find candidates
that matched all of the necessary mechanical
technical aspects of what a real carmen would
do through our platform and said hey these 30
people are actually terrific candidates for this
because they've had these experiences in these
other roles and it was our ai was able to piece
that all together And then send all those candidates
out. And the client was like, wow, this is awesome.
Where did you find these folks? And, you know,
but that's the thing that today you work with,
you know, a regular kind of staffing recruiting
agency. They're looking for real Carmen on your
resume. Absolutely. You don't have it. OK, you
don't pass the six second resume scan and you're
going to the next one. So that's where like we're
able to find so many more people, bring them
into roles they never really anticipated they
could that could be open to them. And so, you
know, that's and then for us, we're able to.
We become the employer of record for everybody
that we place at a location. And what that allows
for companies and for employees is we're able
to offer them better benefits because we're a
bigger kind of organization through our platform.
We're able to offer them better insurance, healthcare,
you know, and we're investing in. these upskilling
resources that allow them to thrive, where now
the retention is two to three times the national
average in a lot of these roles. And that's a
game changer for the company as well, because
the cost of replacing a good technician every
few months, it's astronomical. Wow. I'm really
digging that. You're solving a lot of problems,
things that, really ai is built for that's right
we always think about ai as you know removing
jobs and you're actually looking at it from ai
actually helping place and repurpose you know
those roles and those experiences that someone
has had in maybe you know another industry altogether
Yeah, I think that's been the thing. I think,
you know, we've all been focused on the industries
that AI is going to do the most damage. And nobody's
focused on where AI is going to do the most good.
And, you know, of course, you know, software
engineering, there's going to be now a slim group
of... uh candidates that are able to actually
go into specialized roles so we just don't need
as many um and you know maybe that's the case
with finance and and some of these other kind
of white collar positions as well but where it's
creating a 10x greater demand is in blue collar
because we're able to bring in so many more candidates
and and without the rails of ai to allow us to
do that in the speed and matching timeline that
is required, it would be a non -starter. It wouldn't
be able to be done. And so I think the narrative,
if our shift is going to change here where we're
actually providing jobs to the next generation
of folks, we really need to say, okay, maybe
AI is not helping that many in white collar get
into that space. But look what's happening in
blue collar. Look at this. HVAC technicians,
there's a 3x surge already. And that was, I think
you said, from the Bureau of Labor Statistics
for 2024 job postings. And that's just in 2024.
And now a lot of these... infrastructure projects
i i imagine if you looked at it the same would
be true in electricians and in plumbers and like
this is our future story this is this is the
kind of the bright hope we have for all future
generations that are coming up right now is hey
it's it's not You're not going to be able to
work. And, you know, your only hope is if the
government comes out with universal basic income.
It's, hey, we have something for you. It's going
to be a great thing. And, you know, quite honestly,
you're probably going to enjoy it more because
you're going to be in the real world. You're
going to be connecting with people. You're going
to be utilizing technology to do that job better
than you've ever had in the past. And it's going
to be something great. I think it will. Daniel
Walsh, CEO of Veriskills. You know, you'd mentioned
before this podcast that you actually see it
as almost a new role from blue collar to new
collar. And I really appreciate that perspective.
Where can we learn more about Veriskills? Yeah.
So if you're a candidate or a company, please
go to Veroskills .com and check us out. And you
can be interviewing in 30 seconds at any time
of the day and starting your journey. And as
an employer, you can be in a similar timeline
for getting the best candidate you've literally
ever got. And yeah, I'm very excited about the
future of what's being created right now. I think
it is that shift that we need to realize this
is the new caller. This is the new, you know,
we've had white caller, blue caller. Now the
new caller is a combination of the two, right?
And that is the future that we have to be creating
right now. And I think. It's what excites me
every day about Pharaoh Skills, because we are
able to bring millions of people into the best
jobs they've ever had, get them into a... you
know, a job that actually has real teeth. You're
not going to be, you know, just, you know, one
company, you know, has a market, you know, fall
or stumble and your role is immediately eliminated.
This is real security. You're building the infrastructure
that the entire world needs for, you know, the
next couple of decades easily. So. Yeah, so pharaohskills
.com, long answer to answer where to go, but
pharaohskills .com, that gets you started on
your journey. And, you know, we are very excited.
Unlike a lot of our friends in tech, we are very
excited about the future of where people will
be able to get great jobs. Absolutely. I truly
appreciate you joining us today. And I look forward
to diving into some deeper conversations about
this in the future. Appreciate your time. Absolutely.
Thank you so much for having me.