WEBVTT 00:00:06.269 --> 00:00:09.630 Welcome to Did You Know, the ESCO HVAC podcast, 00:00:09.990 --> 00:00:12.089 the show where we explore the cool, the hot, 00:00:12.150 --> 00:00:15.130 and the everything in between of the HVACR industry. 00:00:15.490 --> 00:00:19.010 Each week, we dig into the innovations, the insights, 00:00:19.170 --> 00:00:21.809 and the inspiring stories that power our trade 00:00:21.809 --> 00:00:24.429 from the classroom to the job site and beyond. 00:00:24.589 --> 00:00:26.929 This episode is brought to you by this week's 00:00:26.929 --> 00:00:29.809 amazing sponsors, Daikin Comfort Technology, 00:00:30.230 --> 00:00:34.009 perfecting the air since 1924. Lincoln Tech, 00:00:34.229 --> 00:00:37.770 put your potential to work. NAVAC, professional 00:00:37.770 --> 00:00:42.009 tools and equipment for HVACR technicians. Amatrol 00:00:42.009 --> 00:00:46.030 Trainers, globally impactful, personally empowering. 00:00:46.329 --> 00:00:51.210 As well as AGAS, together we can. Whether you're 00:00:51.210 --> 00:00:53.409 just getting started or you've been turning wrenches 00:00:53.409 --> 00:00:56.170 for decades like myself, there's always something 00:00:56.170 --> 00:00:59.329 new for us to learn. I'm Clifton Beck and this 00:00:59.329 --> 00:01:03.229 is Did You Know? The ESCO HVAC Podcast. podcast. 00:01:03.729 --> 00:01:06.590 Let's dive in. Well, hello, everyone. Thank you 00:01:06.590 --> 00:01:08.650 for joining us once again on Did You Know, the 00:01:08.650 --> 00:01:12.689 ESCO HVAC podcast. We are spending some time 00:01:12.689 --> 00:01:17.010 today talking about invasive diagnostics with 00:01:17.010 --> 00:01:19.609 our good friend, Joey Henderson, otherwise known 00:01:19.609 --> 00:01:23.069 as JoJo, the HVAC man. How are you? I'm doing 00:01:23.069 --> 00:01:25.519 great, Clifton. How about yourself? I'm doing 00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:27.879 wonderful, hanging out in the new studio and 00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:30.439 getting everything fine -tuned. We actually took 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:33.319 it out on the road to Hudson Technologies. I 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:35.099 was over there Monday and Tuesday shooting a 00:01:35.099 --> 00:01:38.019 behind -the -scenes video of the life cycle of 00:01:38.019 --> 00:01:41.640 a recovery cylinder. So just talking about the 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:47.030 journey from the time it leaves Hudson. Goes 00:01:47.030 --> 00:01:49.329 out to the field. We shot field of a contractor 00:01:49.329 --> 00:01:51.950 recovering. I mean, it was amazing. You know, 00:01:51.969 --> 00:01:53.590 when it comes back to the facility and we split 00:01:53.590 --> 00:01:55.569 and send the refrigerant one direction, send 00:01:55.569 --> 00:01:57.530 the cylinder the other direction. And it was 00:01:57.530 --> 00:01:58.810 really cool because while I was there, they were 00:01:58.810 --> 00:02:01.849 telling us that they work with about 40 different 00:02:01.849 --> 00:02:05.370 refrigerants there at that facility. Wow. You 00:02:05.370 --> 00:02:09.009 know, it brings up one of the topics that's near 00:02:09.009 --> 00:02:11.490 and dear to both of us. When we're talking about 00:02:11.490 --> 00:02:15.379 refrigerants. A lot of people go, oh, these new 00:02:15.379 --> 00:02:17.979 A2Ls or these new A3s. What's the pressure run 00:02:17.979 --> 00:02:21.400 on those things? And as technicians who have 00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:23.819 been out in the field for a while, we both really 00:02:23.819 --> 00:02:26.800 got a passion for knowing what the temperature 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:29.259 is. And the refrigerant is almost irrelevant 00:02:29.259 --> 00:02:31.240 until you're ready to convert it to pressure 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:35.919 because our systems run on temperature. And people 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:39.099 don't understand that. That's right. Yeah, you 00:02:39.099 --> 00:02:41.740 know, it's funny because, you know, when I got 00:02:41.740 --> 00:02:45.750 in it. uh it would join the navy in 88 and so 00:02:45.750 --> 00:02:49.090 when i got in it was uh r12 and r22 was still 00:02:49.090 --> 00:02:51.830 out there with a couple other 500 refrigerants 00:02:51.830 --> 00:02:55.409 but you know when i stepped out of the navy i 00:02:55.409 --> 00:03:00.129 stepped right into the world of change 1991 and 00:03:00.129 --> 00:03:03.969 so we were converting you know from 22 to 410a 00:03:03.969 --> 00:03:08.009 from r12 to 134a and everybody was going berserk 00:03:12.330 --> 00:03:18.289 I became 410A certified in 1995. Wow. And in 00:03:18.289 --> 00:03:25.449 98 or 99, somewhere around there, I sold my company 00:03:25.449 --> 00:03:28.550 and got hired on to Carrier as a tech rep while 00:03:28.550 --> 00:03:31.090 I was doing all the training for 410A across 00:03:31.090 --> 00:03:36.629 the state. And everybody was just freaking out 00:03:36.629 --> 00:03:38.110 on what the pressures are going to be, what the 00:03:38.110 --> 00:03:41.189 pressures are going to be. And then I talked 00:03:41.189 --> 00:03:45.340 to them. an old timer before my time. And he 00:03:45.340 --> 00:03:46.900 goes, yeah, we were all freaking out when we 00:03:46.900 --> 00:03:49.659 went from R12 to R22 because the pressures were 00:03:49.659 --> 00:03:51.539 so much higher. He said, we had R12 in our air 00:03:51.539 --> 00:03:53.280 conditioners. And I remember I actually came 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:55.620 across a couple of ACs that had R12 in them. 00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:00.800 And so these systems are designed for whatever 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:04.180 pressure they hold, but there's no magic pressure. 00:04:05.379 --> 00:04:08.500 Pressures are related to temperature. the more 00:04:08.500 --> 00:04:10.800 and more i dug into that and the more i started 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:13.159 embracing that it made my life a lot easier because 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:16.519 boy in the refrigeration market it was nuts you 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:21.639 think going from part two to 14 oh my gosh refrigeration 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:25.579 was great so many different choices of you know 00:04:25.579 --> 00:04:31.060 refrigerants so i've got to where i finally understood 00:04:31.060 --> 00:04:34.180 and zeroed in on it's not about the pressures 00:04:34.180 --> 00:04:37.639 it's about the saturation temperatures And so 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:40.399 it doesn't really matter what flavor of ice cream 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:43.439 is in that system. If we know what saturation 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:47.019 temperatures we're looking for, then we're fine 00:04:47.019 --> 00:04:49.519 because they're going to change again. I'm sure 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:52.519 they will. There's going to be more refrigerants? 00:04:53.339 --> 00:04:57.980 Absolutely. The application determines the saturation 00:04:57.980 --> 00:05:01.879 temperature, which determines the pressure. There 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:05.170 you go. You know, walk -in coolers have a colder 00:05:05.170 --> 00:05:08.829 evaporator than walk -in freezers. And air conditioners 00:05:08.829 --> 00:05:11.410 have a warmer evaporator, obviously, than coolers 00:05:11.410 --> 00:05:14.350 and freezers. But what should the temperature 00:05:14.350 --> 00:05:17.930 be? And if we know that, it doesn't matter what 00:05:17.930 --> 00:05:20.410 refrigerant we got. We just convert the saturation 00:05:20.410 --> 00:05:23.189 temperature to the saturation or to the pressure 00:05:23.189 --> 00:05:26.250 of whatever refrigerant and you're golden. So 00:05:26.250 --> 00:05:28.050 no need to worry about like back in the day, 00:05:28.089 --> 00:05:32.899 R22, everybody said 70 on the suction. 225 on 00:05:32.899 --> 00:05:35.800 the head and we're good right that's all they 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:38.459 did you know but what they didn't know is that 00:05:38.459 --> 00:05:41.879 that actually related to design conditions very 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:44.759 specific condition very specific conditions and 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.420 if you now know what the conditions you're in 00:05:47.420 --> 00:05:50.180 you'll know what those should be oh yeah so i 00:05:50.180 --> 00:05:52.639 love to talk about it because i think it alleviates 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:57.589 a lot of uh no pun intended, a lot of pressure. 00:06:00.009 --> 00:06:04.829 You're right. Absolutely. And so you don't have 00:06:04.829 --> 00:06:06.529 to worry, you know, what pressure do I need to 00:06:06.529 --> 00:06:08.430 be? Don't, don't worry about that at all. I'll 00:06:08.430 --> 00:06:10.350 tell you today, it'll let you and I already know 00:06:10.350 --> 00:06:13.529 what saturation temperatures are when it's running 00:06:13.529 --> 00:06:18.029 right clean. And, and then you, you can even, 00:06:18.089 --> 00:06:22.209 even. be able to get an idea of what the subcooled 00:06:22.209 --> 00:06:24.509 superheat is without throwing any gauges whatsoever 00:06:24.509 --> 00:06:27.370 on the equipment. I love it. Let's break it down 00:06:27.370 --> 00:06:29.870 and let's go through some examples to kind of 00:06:29.870 --> 00:06:31.250 show people because it kind of really is based 00:06:31.250 --> 00:06:34.230 on the performance design. You know, if it was 00:06:34.230 --> 00:06:37.569 a earlier 10 sear or when we went to 13 sear 00:06:37.569 --> 00:06:41.110 and then 14 sear too. So it really, there is 00:06:41.110 --> 00:06:44.089 a difference in the system designs, but once 00:06:44.089 --> 00:06:47.069 you understand what that is, any general, any. 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:49.839 Any piece of equipment in that generation is 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:52.439 going to be operating very, very similarly on 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:56.939 temperature if we have proper airflow indoor 00:06:56.939 --> 00:07:00.019 as well as outdoor. It all starts with proper 00:07:00.019 --> 00:07:04.939 airflow. So let's assume, I hate assuming because 00:07:04.939 --> 00:07:06.199 you know what it's going to do to you and me. 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:13.079 Let's assume we've cleaned the blower. Huh? Yeah. 00:07:14.870 --> 00:07:18.610 It's mainly technicians listening. They know 00:07:18.610 --> 00:07:22.170 where this was going. So let's assume we've cleaned 00:07:22.170 --> 00:07:24.170 the blower wheel. If it was a gas furnace, we've 00:07:24.170 --> 00:07:26.170 cleaned the secondary heat exchanger. We've cleaned 00:07:26.170 --> 00:07:28.449 the evaporator. We've got our airflow set to 00:07:28.449 --> 00:07:31.730 the proper CFM for the size that we have. We 00:07:31.730 --> 00:07:34.209 verified we don't have excessive duct pressure, 00:07:34.389 --> 00:07:36.769 which would reduce our airflow. We've cleaned 00:07:36.769 --> 00:07:41.269 the outdoor coil. We've made sure that the system 00:07:41.269 --> 00:07:44.810 is ready to run. Properly, right? As designed. 00:07:45.250 --> 00:07:49.129 We fire this up. We've got proper airflow. It's 00:07:49.129 --> 00:07:53.870 not good. No such thing as good. Good's a determination 00:07:53.870 --> 00:08:01.069 made by false expectations. That's right. So 00:08:01.069 --> 00:08:04.449 we have proper airflow indoors. We have proper 00:08:04.449 --> 00:08:08.569 airflow outdoors. We can now actually analyze 00:08:08.569 --> 00:08:11.110 how this system is running. based on temperature 00:08:11.110 --> 00:08:12.829 alone without putting a set of gauges on this 00:08:12.829 --> 00:08:15.509 thing. That's right. That's right. There's quite 00:08:15.509 --> 00:08:20.050 a bit that we can do, which it really blows my 00:08:20.050 --> 00:08:26.310 mind. So going back to what you said, you know, 00:08:26.310 --> 00:08:29.509 a lot of guys miss that. And so, you know, be 00:08:29.509 --> 00:08:31.069 sure you got the right airflow. Now, if you've 00:08:31.069 --> 00:08:35.509 got a constant CFM system, you know, a true variable 00:08:35.509 --> 00:08:38.129 speed motor, you're probably going to be pretty 00:08:38.129 --> 00:08:41.659 good there. but don't forget it does have a limit. 00:08:42.259 --> 00:08:45.779 And also if you got a constant torque, we're 00:08:45.779 --> 00:08:48.419 pretty darn good there too as well. Just remember 00:08:48.419 --> 00:08:50.340 that if you're pushing that constant torque, 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:53.779 you will blow the capacitors eventually. Unlike 00:08:53.779 --> 00:08:56.620 a variable speed motor has a limiter on it, constant 00:08:56.620 --> 00:08:58.320 torque, they just keep drawing from the capacitor 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:00.600 to the coil. That's why a lot of them blow these 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:05.399 days, by the way. And then a PSC motor. You know, 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:06.919 just remember one of the things you can do is 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:08.840 pull an amp and draw on a PSC motor. If it's 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:10.720 pulling less than its rated amps, it's moving 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:13.460 less air. Amperage are a direct relationship 00:09:13.460 --> 00:09:15.820 to how much air it's moving. So if you've got 00:09:15.820 --> 00:09:18.360 a PSC motor and it's pulling full load amps, 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:20.700 that means it's fully loaded, which is a good 00:09:20.700 --> 00:09:23.759 thing. All right. Now, don't forget one last 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:26.419 thing. Not only clean evaporator coils, not only 00:09:26.419 --> 00:09:28.840 clean condenser, but clean blower wheel. That 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.409 means both sides, everybody. Both sides. So, 00:09:31.450 --> 00:09:33.250 you know, I've had to pull many of blower wheel 00:09:33.250 --> 00:09:36.409 housings out, tear them apart, clean them, put 00:09:36.409 --> 00:09:38.789 them all back together to get good airflow. Don't 00:09:38.789 --> 00:09:41.870 forget that part. And don't forget those double 00:09:41.870 --> 00:09:45.269 row condensers. Split them open and clean in 00:09:45.269 --> 00:09:47.389 between them. That will get you every time. All 00:09:47.389 --> 00:09:49.750 right. So I do my little spill there. I love 00:09:49.750 --> 00:09:52.690 it. Properly cleaned. All right. So now we got 00:09:52.690 --> 00:09:54.850 all the proper, proper, proper. Right. All right. 00:09:54.870 --> 00:09:58.789 So now. So what a big thing to change in the 00:09:58.789 --> 00:10:00.909 efficiency. A lot of people think about the meter 00:10:00.909 --> 00:10:03.909 device, which is true. But all of us old timers 00:10:03.909 --> 00:10:07.269 out there that worked on 10 sear and then changed 00:10:07.269 --> 00:10:10.090 them out even to 12 sear. We rolled out a unit 00:10:10.090 --> 00:10:14.090 that could be three feet tall and three feet 00:10:14.090 --> 00:10:16.429 wide. And we rolled in one that was four feet 00:10:16.429 --> 00:10:19.850 tall. OK, you can literally slide the old condenser 00:10:19.850 --> 00:10:22.509 inside the new condenser. And what it was is 00:10:22.509 --> 00:10:26.600 we had these big, big coils. bigger surface area 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:30.080 on the outdoors. And so a lot of the efficiency 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:34.759 changed with the outdoor coil as it got bigger 00:10:34.759 --> 00:10:38.179 and needed more surface area. Not only that, 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:41.299 but they were also reducing the compression ratio. 00:10:42.100 --> 00:10:48.779 So they were reducing how high pressure to get 00:10:48.779 --> 00:10:50.559 the right saturation temperature, the compressor 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:53.340 needed to go from low suction to high suction. 00:10:53.659 --> 00:10:57.340 And the less, the lower we could change that, 00:10:57.519 --> 00:11:00.259 then the more efficient the system was. All right. 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:04.379 Okay. So the old units, the way they designed 00:11:04.379 --> 00:11:06.799 them, and we're going to look at design conditions, 00:11:06.919 --> 00:11:12.360 95 degree outside with 75 degree inside. Okay. 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:14.259 We're not going to be looking at humidity. We're 00:11:14.259 --> 00:11:15.379 not going to look at wet bulb because we're just 00:11:15.379 --> 00:11:17.679 looking at. return air dry bulb temperature. 00:11:17.940 --> 00:11:20.120 Dry bulb temps. Which everybody loves looking 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:22.759 at dry bulb. We can talk about wet bubble. Right. 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:27.840 So that's another invasive check, right? So one 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:29.720 thing you need to know is that, and there's a, 00:11:29.820 --> 00:11:32.840 by the way, Brian Oro, his website has got a 00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:37.059 very good chart that has all this listed on what 00:11:37.059 --> 00:11:39.919 the air over condenser temperature ought to be. 00:11:40.039 --> 00:11:42.220 I know it's also built with some apps out there 00:11:42.220 --> 00:11:45.750 as well, but. The older units, the 8 SEER and 00:11:45.750 --> 00:11:50.149 the 10 SEER units, they were designed so that 00:11:50.149 --> 00:11:54.330 they had to bring the saturation temperature 00:11:54.330 --> 00:11:58.649 of the refrigerant in the condenser 30 degrees 00:11:58.649 --> 00:12:02.490 hotter than the outdoor air coming into it. That 00:12:02.490 --> 00:12:04.590 way it would reject the heat out of the refrigerator. 00:12:04.769 --> 00:12:08.919 Because remember, heat goes from hot. to cold 00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:12.100 so we had to get that heat to move out of the 00:12:12.100 --> 00:12:14.279 refrigerator into the air well think about it 00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:16.399 you know we're trying to cool something off 95 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:18.320 degrees i don't know about you but if i take 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.360 a 95 degree shower i'm not going to be so cool 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:24.840 all right so but if i was 130 degrees then that 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:28.659 would feel really cool to me right so they designed 00:12:28.659 --> 00:12:32.379 them so that it's saturation temperature we're 00:12:32.379 --> 00:12:35.019 not worried about the pressure We want to know 00:12:35.019 --> 00:12:37.120 what should the saturation temperature be? Well, 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.919 if it's a 10 -serie unit, 8 to 10, on average, 00:12:41.139 --> 00:12:44.259 they designed them that they had to jack that 00:12:44.259 --> 00:12:47.740 saturation temperature up to 30 degrees above 00:12:47.740 --> 00:12:51.259 ambient. Okay. And it didn't matter the refrigerator. 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:53.360 We're not talking about whatever refrigerator 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:55.919 is in the system. So if you took a 10 -serie 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:59.399 unit, and if it was 95 degrees outside, I would 00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:04.440 add 30. That would give me 125 degree target 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:07.539 saturation. Okay. I like it. And then following 00:13:07.539 --> 00:13:10.559 there, you would just look at your PT chart. 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:13.600 You know, the old days we had them in our pockets. 00:13:14.620 --> 00:13:17.500 Unfold it. And then one day somebody pointed 00:13:17.500 --> 00:13:21.620 out that it was on my gauges as well. I just 00:13:21.620 --> 00:13:24.000 ignored. I took without one big fat number. Yeah, 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:26.820 yeah, yeah. What's inside? That's actually saturation 00:13:26.820 --> 00:13:29.299 temperature related to the pressure, right? So, 00:13:29.299 --> 00:13:30.700 you know, you can get on your gauge and look 00:13:30.700 --> 00:13:34.299 for the green circle, right, for R22. And that 00:13:34.299 --> 00:13:37.820 pressure would be related to that saturation 00:13:37.820 --> 00:13:41.799 temperature. And so now you know that in the 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:43.460 course of most of your 8 or 10 series are going 00:13:43.460 --> 00:13:47.669 to be R22, right? So you would take, even if 00:13:47.669 --> 00:13:49.950 it was a lower temperature, it doesn't matter. 00:13:50.049 --> 00:13:53.690 You just add 30 to whatever the air temperature 00:13:53.690 --> 00:13:56.370 is coming into that condenser. And be sure that 00:13:56.370 --> 00:13:59.509 you measure the air temperature coming in. Careful, 00:13:59.669 --> 00:14:01.850 you know, and I made these mistakes. I would 00:14:01.850 --> 00:14:04.889 lay my thermometer or clip it to the grill. But 00:14:04.889 --> 00:14:07.370 that grill and the coil can actually radiate 00:14:07.370 --> 00:14:12.009 heat. Right out the middle. Never thought about 00:14:12.009 --> 00:14:14.830 that. So I started holding it away from the condenser. 00:14:15.549 --> 00:14:17.490 You know, you don't want to sit there and hold 00:14:17.490 --> 00:14:19.870 it, you know, prop it up on your refrigerator 00:14:19.870 --> 00:14:21.210 bottle or something, you know, just, you know, 00:14:21.230 --> 00:14:23.590 keep it so that it's reading air temperature. 00:14:23.789 --> 00:14:27.009 And don't go to the web, your phone, because 00:14:27.009 --> 00:14:28.610 that's the weather station's temperature. You 00:14:28.610 --> 00:14:30.149 know, that, you know, it's on the roof. We want 00:14:30.149 --> 00:14:33.730 to know what it is on the roof. Add 30, and that's 00:14:33.730 --> 00:14:35.830 where you are. So it doesn't matter. So any of 00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:38.610 these older units, add 30 to the ambient. That's 00:14:38.610 --> 00:14:40.269 what your saturation temperature ought to be. 00:14:40.779 --> 00:14:42.940 And then it's as simple as converting that to 00:14:42.940 --> 00:14:44.779 the pressure of whatever refrigerant is in that 00:14:44.779 --> 00:14:49.259 unit, okay? Okay. So now let's look at the more 00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:51.740 efficient units. Well, the more efficient they 00:14:51.740 --> 00:14:56.100 got, the least amount of air over ambient they 00:14:56.100 --> 00:14:58.220 need to make that saturation. Okay. So because 00:14:58.220 --> 00:15:00.320 they're more efficient, right? So now we're reducing 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:02.259 the load of the compressor, which means they 00:15:02.259 --> 00:15:04.320 can put smaller compressors in these units now. 00:15:04.820 --> 00:15:09.379 And that's why the units got cheaper. Part of 00:15:09.379 --> 00:15:15.049 it, yeah. So they would be able to get in there 00:15:15.049 --> 00:15:18.330 with a smaller compressor, bigger coil, and get 00:15:18.330 --> 00:15:21.450 the efficiency down. So now what we do is we're 00:15:21.450 --> 00:15:24.870 going to take like a 14 SEER unit on average, 00:15:24.950 --> 00:15:28.970 and even 14 SEER II would run around 20 degrees 00:15:28.970 --> 00:15:32.029 above ambient, 20 degrees above ambient. And 00:15:32.029 --> 00:15:35.710 if you took the ambient air and added 20, that's 00:15:35.710 --> 00:15:37.389 what your new saturation temperature ought to 00:15:37.389 --> 00:15:40.809 be. And at this case, if it was 95, it'd be 95 00:15:40.809 --> 00:15:44.350 plus 20. So now your saturation temperature should 00:15:44.350 --> 00:15:49.610 be 115, unlike the old one, which was 125. And 00:15:49.610 --> 00:15:51.710 now you take that 115, you convert to head pressure. 00:15:52.509 --> 00:15:58.570 Well, our new 14 CR2s have got R54B in them or 00:15:58.570 --> 00:16:01.769 R32. And everybody wants to know, well, now what 00:16:01.769 --> 00:16:04.889 should my new pressures be? You don't have to 00:16:04.889 --> 00:16:06.929 worry about that. The question is, what should 00:16:06.929 --> 00:16:09.389 my saturation temperature be? The same as it's 00:16:09.389 --> 00:16:11.850 always been. Exactly. You're going to add 20 00:16:11.850 --> 00:16:15.690 to 95, and that's on average where you ought 00:16:15.690 --> 00:16:20.110 to be. And so 410A was that way, 454B is that 00:16:20.110 --> 00:16:22.870 way, R32 is going to be that way. And whatever 00:16:22.870 --> 00:16:25.269 other flavor of ice cream they stick in that 00:16:25.269 --> 00:16:29.350 system. Nope. Who knows what it is? It's an application 00:16:29.350 --> 00:16:33.230 issue, not a refrigeration. Exactly. Right. Now. 00:16:34.090 --> 00:16:37.889 I've got a 20 sear. It runs 10 above ambient. 00:16:38.129 --> 00:16:42.870 Okay. So the higher the efficiency, the narrower 00:16:42.870 --> 00:16:47.289 that gap is, right? So now I've come across some 00:16:47.289 --> 00:16:50.250 older 12 sear that were probably more like 13, 00:16:50.389 --> 00:16:54.029 I would think. When I was installing 410A equipment 00:16:54.029 --> 00:17:00.610 back in 97, 98, 99, to this day, on average, 00:17:00.710 --> 00:17:07.109 I see them running around. 335, 340 head pressure. 00:17:07.309 --> 00:17:10.609 Well, that actually comes out to be about usually 00:17:10.609 --> 00:17:14.289 around 15 to 20 above ambient, but sometimes 00:17:14.289 --> 00:17:17.309 15 above ambient. So what I look at is 20 is 00:17:17.309 --> 00:17:21.250 the average, right? For a 14 to 15, 16 sear. 00:17:21.529 --> 00:17:23.289 But if you're running a little bit lower than 00:17:23.289 --> 00:17:27.529 that and your sub coolant's right, your superheat's 00:17:27.529 --> 00:17:29.869 right according to your TXV, then you're just 00:17:29.869 --> 00:17:31.170 running a little bit more efficient and that's 00:17:31.170 --> 00:17:33.470 okay. You just don't want to see it more than 00:17:33.470 --> 00:17:35.450 that. You don't want to see it more than 20 degrees 00:17:35.450 --> 00:17:38.730 above ambient on these higher efficient units. 00:17:39.190 --> 00:17:41.349 Well, let's think about that then for a minute. 00:17:41.410 --> 00:17:44.869 So we've already got a saturation temperature 00:17:44.869 --> 00:17:48.650 without putting our gauges on it. Could we measure 00:17:48.650 --> 00:17:52.710 sub cooling based on the same principle? Absolutely. 00:17:52.849 --> 00:17:55.230 So now we're getting into the magic that I love 00:17:55.230 --> 00:17:58.710 about this. So if we know we've got everything 00:17:58.710 --> 00:18:00.849 cleaned, everything's properly running right. 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:06.140 Then, yeah. So let's just go look at a newer 00:18:06.140 --> 00:18:10.220 unit, 14 -0, 14 -0 -2. Again, doesn't matter 00:18:10.220 --> 00:18:13.519 what figure's in that system. If you know in 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:17.279 our 95 -degree outdoor example, we add 20, we 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.559 know that our saturation should be 115. Well, 00:18:20.619 --> 00:18:23.539 subcooling, let's say the unit's calling for 00:18:23.539 --> 00:18:26.880 an average of a 10 -degree subcooling. The definition 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:30.339 of subcooling is any degree below saturated temperature. 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:32.849 That's right. And that way we know it's a liquid. 00:18:32.950 --> 00:18:34.730 So one reason for subcooling is to make sure 00:18:34.730 --> 00:18:36.769 it's a liquid. The second reason for subcooling 00:18:36.769 --> 00:18:38.569 is to make sure we got the right quantity of 00:18:38.569 --> 00:18:43.009 refrigerant in the system. So now if our required 00:18:43.009 --> 00:18:47.089 subcooling is 10, then you go and measure the 00:18:47.089 --> 00:18:50.049 liquid line and it should be 10 degrees cooler 00:18:50.049 --> 00:18:54.230 than our saturated temperature. So if we have 00:18:54.230 --> 00:18:58.109 105 degree liquid line, then that would be a 00:18:58.109 --> 00:19:00.829 10 degree subcooling. You didn't even put any 00:19:00.829 --> 00:19:04.509 gauges on it. So this is a good check on startup. 00:19:05.109 --> 00:19:08.170 Oh, yeah, yeah. The condenser's clean as it'll 00:19:08.170 --> 00:19:10.190 ever be. The evaporator's clean as it'll ever 00:19:10.190 --> 00:19:12.750 be. You're going to verify airflow because that's 00:19:12.750 --> 00:19:14.789 not guaranteed until you check it. And as long 00:19:14.789 --> 00:19:16.710 as all that's right, you've got the cleanest 00:19:16.710 --> 00:19:18.849 blowwheel you'll ever have, boom, you should 00:19:18.849 --> 00:19:22.190 be able to really do a subcooler check without 00:19:22.190 --> 00:19:23.970 throwing any gauge on it because the last thing 00:19:23.970 --> 00:19:26.650 I ever want to do is put gauges on the system. 00:19:27.630 --> 00:19:29.569 That's the last thing I ever want to do. But 00:19:29.569 --> 00:19:33.549 if you need to, if you have to, the next question 00:19:33.549 --> 00:19:35.569 is, what should my pressure be? Well, now we 00:19:35.569 --> 00:19:37.549 know. Take that saturation. Take that temperature. 00:19:38.809 --> 00:19:41.049 So because a lot of guys I know for their commission, 00:19:41.190 --> 00:19:43.529 they got all the bat gear hooked up to it, right? 00:19:43.910 --> 00:19:46.049 They got the pressure pros. They got the temperature 00:19:46.049 --> 00:19:48.450 pros. And they got to do all that reporting. 00:19:48.990 --> 00:19:51.930 Well, no problem. Now you know. I was just talking 00:19:51.930 --> 00:19:54.710 to a group today, and I asked about their commission. 00:19:54.890 --> 00:19:56.289 I said, what do you do when you commission it? 00:19:56.309 --> 00:19:57.670 They said, well, we fill out that sheet that's 00:19:57.670 --> 00:19:59.480 in the back of the installation guide. I said, 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:01.480 okay, you fill out the data, but what are you 00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:06.259 comparative to? They had no standard to compare 00:20:06.259 --> 00:20:09.880 their numbers to. And I said, when you go in 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:12.380 and get your blood pressure checked, the assistant 00:20:12.380 --> 00:20:14.440 comes in and does the numbers, but the doctor 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:16.619 comes and interprets them. But when you're the 00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:19.000 commissioning guy, guess what? You are the doctor. 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:23.200 You have to have a standard to go by. Now you 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:25.970 have a standard. Now you know. You know what 00:20:25.970 --> 00:20:27.250 your subcooling ought to be because that's on 00:20:27.250 --> 00:20:28.670 the side of the unit. But now you know what your 00:20:28.670 --> 00:20:30.089 pressure is ought to be too. That's what you're 00:20:30.089 --> 00:20:32.630 looking for. But you can do all this without 00:20:32.630 --> 00:20:34.890 seeing any gauges on it and be confident that 00:20:34.890 --> 00:20:37.220 you've got a charge system. Yeah, absolutely. 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:39.299 You know, when I was doing commercial refrigeration, 00:20:39.339 --> 00:20:41.759 you know, we also took care of all of the HVAC 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:44.380 for the buildings as well. So I think some of 00:20:44.380 --> 00:20:47.460 your larger grocery stores, right? You never 00:20:47.460 --> 00:20:50.759 put gauges on a unit unless your sub cooling 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:52.619 was off, right? We'd walk around. What's the 00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:54.599 ambient temperature? What's the discharge temperature? 00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.220 What's the liquid line temperature? Move on to 00:20:57.220 --> 00:20:59.359 the next one, right? These are all package units. 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:01.660 If they got brand new clean filters after we 00:21:01.660 --> 00:21:04.029 clean the condensers, these things. should be 00:21:04.029 --> 00:21:07.509 running in that ballpark, right? So that was 00:21:07.509 --> 00:21:10.349 what we did with every unit. If it was off, then 00:21:10.349 --> 00:21:12.369 we could get our gauges out and go determine, 00:21:12.650 --> 00:21:15.450 all right, what's happening on this thing? But 00:21:15.450 --> 00:21:18.049 we can still, we can go further than the sub 00:21:18.049 --> 00:21:20.950 cooling. We could use this same philosophy and 00:21:20.950 --> 00:21:25.089 move to the evaporator side of the unit. That's 00:21:25.089 --> 00:21:27.589 exactly right. You can. So if you take that same 00:21:27.589 --> 00:21:30.390 principle. and apply it to evaporator, the nice 00:21:30.390 --> 00:21:32.849 thing about evaporators is that the efficiency 00:21:32.849 --> 00:21:36.170 did not affect the evaporator saturated temperature 00:21:36.170 --> 00:21:42.029 change. So we're always looking at return air 00:21:42.029 --> 00:21:45.569 temperature minus 35. The evaporated coal should 00:21:45.569 --> 00:21:49.970 be running 35 degrees colder than whatever the 00:21:49.970 --> 00:21:52.690 return air temperature coming in is. With one 00:21:52.690 --> 00:21:55.150 exception, it should never be lower than we know, 00:21:55.269 --> 00:21:58.700 32 degrees. freezing up right exactly um and 00:21:58.700 --> 00:22:01.019 i would like to get it that close right but we 00:22:01.019 --> 00:22:03.980 run it we run it fairly close in the sense that 00:22:03.980 --> 00:22:06.859 if we got an example of 75 degree return here 00:22:06.859 --> 00:22:10.640 you subtract 35 and you're going to have a 40 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:15.319 degree saturated evaporator cool and that's that 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.140 gives you a good leeway for uh you're not going 00:22:18.140 --> 00:22:20.960 to be freezing up the coil exactly and you'll 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:25.430 be dehumidifying as well as now The older units 00:22:25.430 --> 00:22:27.630 ran a little bit colder. So anybody out there 00:22:27.630 --> 00:22:30.049 that's working on some old R22 system, whatever, 00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:36.029 10 sear. Yes, they would run more like a 40 degree 00:22:36.029 --> 00:22:38.670 colder evaporated coal. So they kind of inch 00:22:38.670 --> 00:22:43.809 that down closer at 32 degree mark. And but that 00:22:43.809 --> 00:22:46.490 was the only way they really could get a good 00:22:46.490 --> 00:22:50.210 dehumidification out of the air. Right. But now 00:22:50.210 --> 00:22:52.730 that we can control the fan speeds and all the 00:22:52.730 --> 00:22:56.160 efficiency. did bump up the required saturation, 00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.400 but with, with our airflow, um, correct, then 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:02.799 we'll be okay. So, and we'll talk about that 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:04.299 in a minute, how we can change, check that out 00:23:04.299 --> 00:23:07.759 in a basic way, but now we'll take the return 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:11.039 air. If it's 75, you minus 35, that's what your 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:13.640 saturation ought to be. Now you can convert that 00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:15.900 to pressure, no matter what the refrigerant is. 00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:18.480 Now you know what the pressure ought to be. Now 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:23.759 you can know what suction, uh, because Well, 00:23:23.859 --> 00:23:27.500 in this example, if it's 75 return here, we minus 00:23:27.500 --> 00:23:35.579 35, we had a 40 saturation. And so TXVs on average 00:23:35.579 --> 00:23:38.599 will hold between a five and a 15 degree superheat. 00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:41.859 That's an average. And then this is why most 00:23:41.859 --> 00:23:44.759 people gravitate between 10 and 12 degrees superheat. 00:23:45.019 --> 00:23:47.440 Because in the middle of that is about 10 or 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:52.869 12. Exactly. So with an EEV. is more precise 00:23:52.869 --> 00:23:57.349 and it's much more specific. A lot of them I've 00:23:57.349 --> 00:24:02.410 seen hold a nine, sometimes a six. You got to 00:24:02.410 --> 00:24:04.410 look at the manufacturer to find out what their 00:24:04.410 --> 00:24:07.109 EEV is calling for, but it's going to be pretty 00:24:07.109 --> 00:24:11.809 much dead on. Okay. And so find out what your 00:24:11.809 --> 00:24:14.829 super heat out to be. If it's a TXV. You're looking 00:24:14.829 --> 00:24:17.329 for about, let's just pick 10 as a good average. 00:24:17.990 --> 00:24:20.529 That's easy. All right. If that's the case, then 00:24:20.529 --> 00:24:24.470 you know your saturation should be 40 at 10. 00:24:25.130 --> 00:24:28.130 So your suction line leaving the evaporator should 00:24:28.130 --> 00:24:30.650 be 10. Not a deep outdoor unit though. That's 00:24:30.650 --> 00:24:33.589 what we're here for. Right. We're measuring actual 00:24:33.589 --> 00:24:36.609 superheat at the coil. So you don't want to be 00:24:36.609 --> 00:24:39.180 right next to the coil. I like to get at least 00:24:39.180 --> 00:24:42.640 8 to 10 inches away from the connection, but 00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:45.480 you want to be close to the evaporator core. 00:24:45.980 --> 00:24:50.000 And, you know, there is an allowance, you know, 00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:54.099 for superheat gain. But, you know, most of the 00:24:54.099 --> 00:24:55.579 time, everybody's taking them right there to 00:24:55.579 --> 00:24:59.759 condenser. Yeah. Right. And if it's typically 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.539 within the allowed refrigerant line length and. 00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:09.220 it is properly insulated all the way down, then 00:25:09.220 --> 00:25:11.319 you shouldn't lose too much, and you shouldn't 00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:13.660 be pretty darn close, all right? Even if you're 00:25:13.660 --> 00:25:16.039 within two degrees, you're still okay. You're 00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:19.319 all right. But if you ever are concerned, then, 00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:23.920 you know, measure the pressure, align the evaporator, 00:25:23.980 --> 00:25:25.440 and then measure at the unit, and you can take 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:28.329 a check. By the way, if you want to know if you 00:25:28.329 --> 00:25:30.589 have a restricted liquid line, just to give you 00:25:30.589 --> 00:25:33.269 a little heads up, another invasive check is 00:25:33.269 --> 00:25:34.809 to measure the liquid line temperature leaving 00:25:34.809 --> 00:25:37.529 the condenser and then the liquid line temperature 00:25:37.529 --> 00:25:41.690 entering the evaporator. You should have no more 00:25:41.690 --> 00:25:45.089 than a two degree temperature change there. If 00:25:45.089 --> 00:25:46.930 you've got more than two degree temperature drop, 00:25:47.109 --> 00:25:50.369 you've got an excessive restriction. And I've 00:25:50.369 --> 00:25:54.420 killed compressors due to that. Typically, we're 00:25:54.420 --> 00:25:58.779 going to tie into from a 3 -8 to a 7 -16 behind 00:25:58.779 --> 00:26:01.200 the siding of the house. And then it went back 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:03.019 up to a 3 -8 when they got in the attic and they 00:26:03.019 --> 00:26:05.660 were hoping that little 15 -foot line wouldn't 00:26:05.660 --> 00:26:08.559 be a problem. But it did. I had a 7 -degree temperature 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:10.599 drop on that line. That was terrible. That was 00:26:10.599 --> 00:26:14.420 crazy. So, one more basin. Do you want to talk 00:26:14.420 --> 00:26:16.559 about that? Let's do that. We've got a few minutes 00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:21.619 left. Sure. If you have good airflow, excuse 00:26:21.619 --> 00:26:24.960 me, if you have... proper airflow. Yeah. And 00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:27.960 you have clean coils. And you have clean coils. 00:26:28.019 --> 00:26:30.099 And you are confident. All those are good. One 00:26:30.099 --> 00:26:33.460 last check is you can measure the dry bulb and 00:26:33.460 --> 00:26:36.440 wet bulb drop across the evaporator. We want 00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:40.700 to check this as close to the evaporator as possible. 00:26:40.859 --> 00:26:42.960 Okay. We don't want any other influences on it. 00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:44.980 We want to know what is that evaporator actually 00:26:44.980 --> 00:26:48.000 dealing with. Okay. And this is where a lot of 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.009 guys miss. As a tech rep, A lot of times a unit, 00:26:51.089 --> 00:26:53.450 they, you know, thought the charge was off, everything 00:26:53.450 --> 00:26:56.289 was off. Before we threw on gauges, we measured 00:26:56.289 --> 00:26:58.190 wet bulb and dry bulb across the evaporator. 00:26:58.390 --> 00:27:00.890 This is akin to the temperature rise across the 00:27:00.890 --> 00:27:04.750 furnace, okay? And it told me almost everything. 00:27:05.789 --> 00:27:08.930 Because if all this other stuff is in line, the 00:27:08.930 --> 00:27:11.450 wet bulb and dry bulb is literally the total 00:27:11.450 --> 00:27:14.349 amount of heat that system is removing. And if 00:27:14.349 --> 00:27:15.849 it's removing the right amount of total heat, 00:27:15.970 --> 00:27:20.399 then all the other stuff's in play, okay? This, 00:27:20.399 --> 00:27:22.240 and I got this straight from a carry engineer, 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:26.119 and you can plot this on a chart. But if you 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:30.759 have, and it's a ratio, between 16 to 18 degree 00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:35.099 dry bulb, along with a 10 degree wet bulb drop. 00:27:36.019 --> 00:27:38.799 If you got those two in line, so it's not just 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:40.940 dry bulb, which everybody looks at. Of course, 00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:42.779 they think the more the better. That's not true, 00:27:42.940 --> 00:27:47.890 right? If you got a 16 to 18 dry bulb. With a 00:27:47.890 --> 00:27:50.869 10 degree wet bulb, that ratio right there is 00:27:50.869 --> 00:27:53.369 dead on. It doesn't matter whether it's a two 00:27:53.369 --> 00:27:58.230 ton unit or a 20 ton or 200 ton. If it is an 00:27:58.230 --> 00:28:02.450 air cooled air conditioning application, those 00:28:02.450 --> 00:28:06.789 two ratios will be there. And you can do the 00:28:06.789 --> 00:28:10.990 reverse if you check those first. Honestly, everything 00:28:10.990 --> 00:28:16.400 else. Yeah, exactly. The other one you can check 00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:18.420 is the temperature rise method, the sensible 00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:20.920 heat method at the condenser. All right. You 00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:24.079 can look up. It's an axial fan. Yep. You can 00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:26.539 look up the CFMs of that fan in the data for 00:28:26.539 --> 00:28:29.240 the outdoor unit. You can measure the temperature 00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:31.660 coming in, temperature going out. Now, you're 00:28:31.660 --> 00:28:33.400 going to have motor heat and compressor heat. 00:28:33.660 --> 00:28:35.720 Understood. So you're going to be rejecting a 00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:38.259 little bit more heat than it's rated at. But 00:28:38.259 --> 00:28:40.099 you could actually use the same formula you do 00:28:40.099 --> 00:28:43.980 for strip heat and use that across the condenser. 00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:47.319 and get a pretty good idea if it's like a three 00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:50.380 ton unit it should be protecting at least 36 00:28:50.380 --> 00:28:53.119 000 and if you had compressor and motor in there 00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:54.940 then you should be rejecting a little bit more 00:28:54.940 --> 00:28:57.539 than 36 000. that's right but if it's reduced 00:28:57.539 --> 00:29:00.160 if it's if it's reduced you know producing less 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:02.740 than that then you got a problem that's another 00:29:02.740 --> 00:29:06.839 quick check too love it all innovatively using 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.619 temperatures alone joey where can we learn more 00:29:09.619 --> 00:29:13.599 about uh you and your training Well, if you go 00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:17.420 to Jojo the HVAC man, and it is J -O -E, J -O 00:29:17.420 --> 00:29:19.960 -E, the HVAC man. If you do the other one, you're 00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:21.319 going to get some turkey, and I'm just kidding. 00:29:23.339 --> 00:29:26.660 I'm just kidding. But J -O -E, J -O -E, the HVAC 00:29:26.660 --> 00:29:28.980 man. Go to my YouTube channel. I've got some 00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:31.359 training there. You can go to my TikTok channel. 00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:33.200 I've got a lot more training there that seems 00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:36.019 to be a biggie these days. But also, I love doing 00:29:36.019 --> 00:29:38.099 remote training. I travel all over the country 00:29:38.099 --> 00:29:41.359 doing training on sites at conferences. And I 00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:43.500 do a lot of webinars as well. I'd love to talk 00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:46.000 to anybody that would love training. I love training. 00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:49.480 I love helping other people. And just reach me 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:53.059 through there. You can also hit me up on jojothehpacman 00:29:53.059 --> 00:29:56.299 at gmail .com. Awesome. I appreciate you joining 00:29:56.299 --> 00:29:58.940 us today. Everybody have a great day. Thank you, 00:29:58.980 --> 00:29:59.200 Clifton.